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rboyd

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Re: Ships and boats
« Reply #200 on: October 06, 2019, 09:09:30 PM »
Shipping companies have a history of being pretty nasty capitalists, doing pretty much anything to save money, so them "cheating" on low sulphur fuel requirements does not surprise me.

The reduction in airborne sulphur emissions from ships will actually increase the rate of climate change by reducing the albedo. Those sulphur particles turn into SO2 in the atmosphere, which reflect sunlight away from Earth. In the relative pristine air of the oceans even small amounts of SO2 can make a big difference to albedo. It has even been proposed that ships should burn dirtier fossil fuel mixes to increase the albedo effect.

Maritime shipping and emissions: A three-layered, damage-based approach (In Ocean Engineering

Abstract

Quote
Policy emphasis in ship design must be shifted away from global and idealized towards regional based and realistic vessel operating conditions. The present approach to reducing shipping emissions through technical standards tends to neglect how damages and abatement opportunities vary according to location and operational conditions. Since environmental policy originates in damages relating to ecosystems and jurisdictions, a three-layered approach to vessel emissions is intuitive and practical. Here, we suggest associating damages and policies with ports, coastal areas possibly defined as Emission Control Areas (ECA) as in the North Sea and the Baltic, and open seas globally. This approach offers important practical opportunities: in ports, clean fuels or even electrification is possible; in ECAs, cleaner fuels and penalties for damaging fuels are important, but so is vessel handling, such as speeds and utilization. Globally we argue that it may be desirable to allow burning very dirty fuels at high seas, due to the cost advantages, the climate cooling benefits, and the limited ecosystem impacts. We quantify the benefits and cost savings from reforming current IMO and other approaches towards environmental management with a three-layered approach, and argue it is feasible and worth considering.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0029801815005016

vox_mundi

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Re: Ships and boats
« Reply #201 on: October 13, 2019, 12:24:01 AM »
Why Lightning Strikes Twice as Often Over Shipping Lanes
https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/10/why-lightning-strikes-twice-as-often-over-shipping-lanes/



Thunderstorms directly above two of the world’s busiest shipping lanes are significantly more powerful than storms in areas of the ocean where ships don’t travel, according to new University of Washington research.

... Under normal conditions, microscopic water droplets in the air grab onto “cloud condensation nuclei,” which are aerosol particles bigger than 50 nanometers, like a bit of dust, or sulphur dioxide. When few particles are present, each one picks up more droplets, and they coalesce into relatively short clouds at low altitudes. Those make rain. When a lot of aerosol particles are present, each one gets fewer droplets and can float high enough into the atmosphere to freeze. In the resulting tall clouds, those bits of ice and slush run into each other and transfer electric charges. The differences in charge creates an electric field, which results in lightning.

The official term for this is “aerosol convective invigoration.” Thornton also calls it “catalyzing lightning.” You just need to know that more particles means more lightning, and burning fossil fuels is a reliable way to make those particles. Ships are especially culpable because they use bunker fuel to get from port to port. Made from the dark, viscous stuff that’s left at the bottom of the barrel after the comparatively ethereal gasoline, jet fuel, and kerosene have been distilled off, it contains about 3,500 times as much sulphur as automotive diesel. The world’s fleet burns some 3.3 million barrels of it daily. (At least until December 31—more on that in a flash.)

For the 2017 study, Thornton and his coauthors pulled data on 1.5 × 10^9 individual strokes (aka discharges) between 2005 and 2016 from the World Wide Lightning Location Network. They compared that to data from the Emissions Database for Global Atmospheric Research, which makes detailed estimates on how much pollution ships create based on real-time info. Then, in 2018, University of Washington researchers Peter Blossey and Christopher Bretherton followed up by using a computer simulation to measure the effect of ship emissions in the Indian Ocean on cloud creation, in response to the 2017 study. With support from Thronton and Virts (now at NASA), they found effects on thunderstorms that lined up with the original study.

https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/2017GL074982

-------------------------

Thousands of Ships Fitted With “Cheat Devices” to Divert Poisonous Pollution Into Sea
https://desdemonadespair.net/2019/10/thousands-of-ships-fitted-with-cheat-devices-to-divert-poisonous-pollution-into-sea-in-the-north-sea-and-some-parts-of-the-channel-the-water-quality-has-already-b.html



Diagram showing an open-loop Marine Exhaust Gas Cleaning System that removes sulfur and nitrogen compounds from a ship’s engine exhaust and dumps them into the surrounding water. Graphic: Tritech Engineers

Quote
... “In the North Sea and some parts of the Channel, the water quality has already been heavily degraded”
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kassy

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Re: Ships and boats
« Reply #202 on: October 13, 2019, 09:02:32 PM »
Interesting part about the lightning.

We clearly need some new global standards for shipping.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Ships and boats
« Reply #203 on: October 15, 2019, 09:21:36 PM »
“Here’s a question for you: why did the US Office of Fossil Energy tweet out a Happy Columbus Day message on Columbus Day? Who knows! Whatever the motive, they did remind everybody that Columbus traveled across the seas, which doesn’t have much to do with fossil energy. However, the topic of seacraft does call to mind that fossil energy is on the verge of losing its grip on the global cargo shipping sector, partly because a new wind power renaissance is taking hold.”

Wind Power Returns To Oceangoing Cargo Ships, Finally
https://cleantechnica.com/2019/10/15/wind-power-returns-to-oceangoing-cargo-ships-finally/
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TerryM

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Re: Ships and boats
« Reply #204 on: October 15, 2019, 09:51:51 PM »
^^
Why did the US Office of Fossil Fuel Energy tweet out a Happy Columbus Day message on Columbus Day?


They'd have been laughed at if they tweeted out a Happy New Years message on Columbus Day.
They'd have been ridiculed if they tweeted out a Happy Columbus Day on Christmas Day.


Because no one remembers Vespucci?
'Cause no one admits that the Vikings got there first?
No one in the office can pronounce Zheng.
Otherwise they'd need to explain the Welsh speaking Indian tribes.
Because the Phoenicians Came First is a conspiracy theory.


Otherwise Ohio might succeed.


So many answers, so little time.
Terry ;)

kassy

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Re: Ships and boats
« Reply #205 on: January 20, 2020, 12:11:38 PM »
Low sulphur fuel found to have higher black carbon emissions than HSFO

Mandated into law for less than three weeks and very low sulphur fuel oil (VLSFO), shipping’s new number one bunkering choice, is already facing calls to be banned, especially in Arctic waters.

A submission made by Finland and Germany to the International Maritime Organization (IMO) suggests VLSFO has higher black carbon emissions than its forebear, high sulphur fuel oil (HSFO).

...

“New hybrid fuels with 0.50% sulphur content used in the study contained a high proportion of aromatic compounds in a range of 70% to 95%, which resulted in increased [black carbon] emissions in a range of 10% to 85% compared to HFO,” the study claimed. The higher emissions were most noticeable when the engine was running at less than full capacity.

...

The black carbon news has quickly seen a number of NGOs call for VLSFO found to have high aromatic contents to be banned for ships transiting Artic waters.

https://splash247.com/low-sulphur-fuel-found-to-have-higher-black-carbon-emissions-than-hsfo/
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rboyd

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Re: Ships and boats
« Reply #206 on: January 26, 2020, 12:58:01 AM »
So less climate cooling from the reduction in sulphate aerosols and more climate warming from black carbon emissions - could they have made this any worse for the climate?

NeilT

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Re: Ships and boats
« Reply #207 on: January 27, 2020, 02:11:42 AM »
I've been meaning to review this for a while.  I was reading about the Norwegian ferries which can sail for 22 minutes on their massive battery load.  They also need a huge power station to recharge in the 30 minute turnaround window.

So I wondered what the equivalent would be for the largest container ships plying between Shanghai and Rotterdam (most common route via the suez canal).

That journey takes approx. 24 days at around 20knots and these ships are rated at around TEU18,000

Looking at the fuel consumption chart

https://transportgeography.org/?page_id=5955

I took a conservative figure at 250 tons of bunker fuel per day at 20 knots.

For 24 days I make that 6,000 tonnes of bunker fuel.  If I assume bunker fuel has the same energy as diesel (it has more), then I get 60gwh of energy burned.

Now assuming that our lithium ion batteries have a power density of 270wh/kg, this gives me 222,222 tonnes of weight.

I shall now assume that electric is half the power consumption of these huge marine engines (it is not, the marine engines give the highest thermal efficiency of all ICE's), then I get down to 111 thousand tonnes.

The DWT of these ships is around 196,000 tonnes.

At which point we need to go back to the drawing board.  Because each ship would require a power station capable of powering around 50,000 homes and would need to charge for the whole week it takes to turn them around and it would carry less than half the cargo.

Personally I think the Chinese idea of a trans Asia-Europe electrified rail line is going to be critical if we want to get rid of shipping emissions.

Of course if we could get energy density up to 600wh/kg it might be feasible.  Just.
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oren

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Re: Ships and boats
« Reply #208 on: January 27, 2020, 04:56:27 AM »
Obviously, for a short route ferry it makes perfect sense to go battery-electric, for a 24-day cargo ship it makes zero sense.
Some ideas that have been thrown around in the past here - add solar panels to the ship (not enough energy, but nice idea and can add range), and use wind power with sails (has been used successfully for centuries, but would mean much slower journey even with battery backup). An electric rail line is a good idea, though not sure if feasible or economical.
Of course the best solution is to reduce global shipping of frivolities, and to place necessary production nearer to consumption, but these are systemic issues, easier said than done.

bluice

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Re: Ships and boats
« Reply #209 on: January 27, 2020, 06:43:51 AM »
Unfortunately volumewise rail plays in a different league than the ultra large container vessels. A standard container freight train from China to Europe takes 41 x 40’foot sea containers, 82 TEU, whereas ships carry 18-20000 TEU. Rail is faster but cost is 3-4 x ocean freight despite China subsidizing westbound rail freight by as much as 50%.

So they are different products for different needs. To certain extent rail competes with air freight also.

Ocean is an efficient way to move large amounts of cargo for great distancies, calculated by energy consumption per unit. 18k TEU is truly a massive amount. We should find a way to decarbonize the ships. That should be doable technically, because every known energy source, with the likely exception of solar, has been used to power ships in large scale.

gerontocrat

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Re: Ships and boats
« Reply #210 on: January 27, 2020, 06:28:04 PM »
Ocean is an efficient way to move large amounts of cargo for great distancies, calculated by energy consumption per unit. 18k TEU is truly a massive amount. We should find a way to decarbonize the ships. That should be doable technically, because every known energy source, with the likely exception of solar, has been used to power ships in large scale.
If, a big if, overbuild on wind & solar in a country or 2, meant loads of spare energy to electrolyse water for H2, there might be a case of using hydrogen as the power source for large ships.

Despite the really stupid (venomous?) Government currently in charge, Australia has made an uncertain step or two in developing a hydrogen industry.

Yet another instance showing how Australia could / should be a flagship nation in the transition to a carbon-free economy.

https://www.industry.gov.au/sites/default/files/2019-11/australias-national-hydrogen-strategy.pdf
AUSTRALIA'S NATIONAL HYDROGEN STRATEGY - © Commonwealth of Australia 2019
Quote
FOREWORD
As the Commonwealth Ministers representing Australia's energy and resources sectors, we are
pleased to present Australia's National Hydrogen Strategy.

Technological developments that support energy affordability, improve energy system reliability
and contribute to long-term emissions reductions will be vital as global energy markets continue to evolve. Hydrogen is one of the many tools that can help us on this evolution and Australia is in a unique position to maximise on this opportunity.

The development of our hydrogen resources could enhance Australia's energy security, create
Australian jobs and build an export industry valued in the billions. We have all the pieces needed to create this new industry and supply clean hydrogen to the world: the energy resources, expertise, and infrastructure.

This Strategy sets a path to build Australia's hydrogen industry. We plan to accelerate the
commercialisation of hydrogen, reduce technical uncertainties and build up our domestic supply
chains and production capabilities. The Strategy looks to initially concentrate hydrogen use in niche hubs that will foster domestic demand. A strong domestic hydrogen sector will underpin Australia's exporting capabilities, allowing us to become a leading global hydrogen player.

The Australian Government has already committed over $146 million to hydrogen projects. These
projects will help us learn more about how hydrogen can form part of Australia's energy mix to
help drive down prices and emissions, as well as provide a foundation of expertise to build a
competitive export industry.

Every state and territory in Australia has regions with excellent prospects for hydrogen production. Through this Strategy, all of Australia's governments are committing to remove barriers to industry development. This includes through nationally consistent and smart regulation, enhanced engagement with customer countries, and in ensuring safety concerns are addressed. The Australian Government will track progress and monitor emerging industry changes here and overseas so that all jurisdictions can respond to market developments.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2020, 07:38:28 PM by gerontocrat »
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TerryM

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Re: Ships and boats
« Reply #211 on: January 28, 2020, 06:23:21 AM »
I believe LNG has been proposed for heavy shipping in the polar route, at least by Russia. Their extant atomic icebreakers leave the door open for nuclear powered super cargo ships should the economics ever make sense.


The fleet of atomic icebreakers is still expanding & the technology has proven itself over time.
Terry

kassy

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Re: Ships and boats
« Reply #212 on: April 01, 2020, 10:45:07 AM »
Ships' emissions create measurable regional change in clouds

Years of cloud data over a shipping route between Europe and South Africa shows that pollution from ships has significantly increased the reflectivity of the clouds. More generally, the results suggest that industrial pollution's effect on clouds has masked about a third of the warming due to fossil fuel burning since the late 1800s.

A container ship leaves a trail of white clouds in its wake that can linger in the air for hours. This puffy line is not just exhaust from the engine, but a change in the clouds that's caused by small airborne particles of pollution.

New research led by the University of Washington is the first to measure this phenomenon's effect over years and at a regional scale. Satellite data over a shipping lane in the south Atlantic show that the ships modify clouds to block an additional 2 Watts of solar energy, on average, from reaching each square meter of ocean surface near the shipping lane.

The result implies that globally, cloud changes caused by particles from all forms of industrial pollution block 1 Watt of solar energy per square meter of Earth's surface, masking almost a third of the present-day warming from greenhouse gases. The open-access study was published March 24 in AGU Advances, a journal of the American Geophysical Union.

...

Averaged globally, they found changes in low clouds due to pollution from all sources block 1 Watt per square meter of solar energy -- compared to the roughly 3 Watts per square meter trapped today by the greenhouse gases also emitted by industrial activities. In other words, without the cooling effect of pollution-seeded clouds, Earth might have already warmed by 1.5 degrees Celsius (2.7 F), a change that the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change projects would have significant societal impacts. (For comparison, today the Earth is estimated to have warmed by approximately 1 C (1.8 F) since the late 1800s.)

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/03/200324102705.htm

Substantial Cloud Brightening From Shipping in Subtropical Low Clouds (Open Access):
https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1029/2019AV000111
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Re: Ships and boats
« Reply #213 on: April 01, 2020, 11:43:25 AM »
While I certainly see how hydrogen can fill a gap in the portfolio of renewable energy. I worry about it because 99% of hydrogen currently made is from coal or  methane. The process for making green hydrogen is currently only about 30% efficient. That is too much wasted energy to be considered storage imho.
https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/the-reality-behind-green-hydrogens-soaring-hype
The article says they hope to eventually get to 80% efficient. Not really sure how realistic that is but it is not current technology. What is more likely imho is so called blue hydrogen. They make by steam reforming methane and capturing the co2 for storage. If you ask me this is the real motivation behind hydrogen they want to extend uses for natural gas.
They make a few green hydrogen test facilities and start to set up the hydrogen infrastructure using green energy government money. Then when it starts to take hold they provide cheaper polluting hydrogen for much cheaper. They continue to build the infrastructure on the public dime all the while selling the environmental benefit of green hydrogen. But few buy the green hydrogen because it is too expensive.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Ships and boats
« Reply #214 on: June 19, 2020, 07:46:43 PM »
Carnival Starts Selling Its Ships to Reduce Costs
Six vessels will be sold off first, with more to follow.
Quote
Still battling the economic riptides and shoals of the COVID-19 pandemic, Carnival (NYSE:CCL) is currently in the process of selling six of its cruise ships and intends to divest itself of more, according to an update today. The troubled cruise line is attempting to cut costs as sailing dates get postponed and bookings fail to rebound quickly to pre-coronavirus levels.

Maintaining cruise ships in operation is a costly matter, with expenses running at around $1 billion per month when the whole fleet is operational versus $250 million monthly when docked and shut down. Currently, about 60% of Carnival's fleet is paused, with the remainder still on the ocean, though the situation is somewhat improved from mid-May when 100,000 cruise line employees were trapped at sea. ...
https://www.fool.com/investing/2020/06/18/carnival-starts-selling-its-ships-to-reduce-costs.aspx
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Freegrass

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Re: Ships and boats
« Reply #215 on: June 19, 2020, 07:54:54 PM »
Carnival Starts Selling Its Ships to Reduce Costs
Six vessels will be sold off first, with more to follow.
Quote
Still battling the economic riptides and shoals of the COVID-19 pandemic, Carnival (NYSE:CCL) is currently in the process of selling six of its cruise ships and intends to divest itself of more, according to an update today. The troubled cruise line is attempting to cut costs as sailing dates get postponed and bookings fail to rebound quickly to pre-coronavirus levels.

Maintaining cruise ships in operation is a costly matter, with expenses running at around $1 billion per month when the whole fleet is operational versus $250 million monthly when docked and shut down. Currently, about 60% of Carnival's fleet is paused, with the remainder still on the ocean, though the situation is somewhat improved from mid-May when 100,000 cruise line employees were trapped at sea. ...
https://www.fool.com/investing/2020/06/18/carnival-starts-selling-its-ships-to-reduce-costs.aspx
They would make a great reef for fish... I hope that entire industry collapses.
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Re: Ships and boats
« Reply #216 on: June 19, 2020, 09:58:04 PM »
I can't imagine who would buy them right now.