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bligh8

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Re: Is the Earth F**cked??
« Reply #50 on: January 04, 2014, 03:30:02 AM »
We've had deaths here in MN from West Nile (it showed up about ten years ago, iirc), so I wouldn't be surprised if it showed up in Utah (or Idaho, for that matter).

Bligh, did you intend to add a further comment to that quoted piece? In any case, those are different collapses--the rate of degrowth needed at this point may indeed look something like collapse, but it would ideally be a managed, relatively humane collapse of the human capitalist economy.

The other collapses are of the living world and the systems that support it--very different level.

Hey Wili

Yea...I did.  That was kinda embarrassing. It was two in morning my cats were going nuts and woke me up,  the snow kept them from getting out of their cat door. So while I was waiting for them to finish up and come back inside I decided to look around here and my foggy brain did dot complete my thoughts.

What I was looking at was possible solutions to a de-growth or slow down or forced emission reductions. Wili, I've lived at near zero emissions for years -ok, I was out sailing but still, I generated enough electricity, harvested 60% of my food from the Ocean, recycled all fresh water (filtered and used it for decending purposes) 20% of my food was locally grown and the following 20% was purchased via normal channels. I burned 35bls of propane per year for cooking and maybe 15 gallons of diesel per year. I had a rain catch system that provided 100% of my fresh water needs. Now....Within a crowded society most of that doesn't work. Some of does. Over the last several years I've reduced my carbon footprint by at least 25%. Not out of some noble idea to save the Earth just practical economics and some hatred for the ff industry that is destroying my Oceans.
Some of the things I did were...
Series 400 Argon windows, re insulated... twice(inside then outside). Researched and purchased the most energy efficient appliances. Two 50 watt solar panels, charging 2 8D GlassMatt Batteries for low voltage applications. (You'ed be surprised how many there are) Very Very frugal utilizing central heat/ac. LED lighting & low-voltage lighting. Ultra Low emission, high mileage vehicle, I understand that's still a ICE engine but right now it's the best available. Power strips everywhere, I do not use A/C for idling purposes. I understand most folks cannot do these things for a variety of reasons.

Since there does not seem a political will to change BAU, nor is there a corporate consensus.
The scientific community, I believe is doing what they can. The public communication about GW is nearly nonexistent. The denier machine is very well oiled and effective.

I somewhat believe that there is a legal solution that would start things down the correct path.
I'm not a constitutional lawyer but I believe Hansen is on to something, although his law suit is now in the appeals court. There are provisions within the constitution that suggest each generation shall leave the land in a usable condition for the next generation. Since Hansen started this process their have been changes, although subtle, they are there.  Exxon among others have begun hiding there financial pathways to the deniers campaign. Exxon has started in earnest, an advertising blitz (here in the North East anywho) expounding the energy value within a gallon of gas. Several large FF companies have changed their PR campaigns. This is just what I've noticed, I'm sure there is more.
Until there is some cataclysmic event political solutions will not work. Forced reductions in emissions, which I'm all for, will not happen.
Economic solutions are even less believable, within today's greed driven system.
So whats left? Legal or civil resistance.

Best,
Bligh



SATire

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Re: Is the Earth F**cked??
« Reply #51 on: January 04, 2014, 11:13:16 AM »
If he would've said we need to grow other things, like for instance soil fertility, or grow towards that stationary system that classical economists like Adam Smith and John Stuart Mill spoke about, less people would've been put off. 

It's the same for the whole de-growth term, where you try to play by the wrong rules and get nowhere.
Very nicely put, Neven.

It does not help to run away from something (like GDP, capitalism, communism...) - you loose a lot of poeple running away in all directions. Calling other poeple fools for running not in the same direction like you does not help in that situation. That situation is what I would call "collapse".

What we need is to agree on something to aspire and to go for. There are a lot of things which should grow in future: Education, knowledge, reason, social life, quality of life, quality of food and things, quality of the environment...
By going for something together collapse is avoided automatically. This something could be like: Let us save the world from getting F**cked and make it a nice and lasting place.

greylib

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Re: Is the Earth F**cked??
« Reply #52 on: January 04, 2014, 06:45:03 PM »
Most economists seem to take GDP as a measure of wealth. It isn't - it measures "economic activity". For example: the Torrey Canyon oil spill of 1967.

It blighted 120 miles of the Cornish coast and killed tens of thousands of birds and other sea creatures. But guess what? It actually INCREASED gross domestic product for that year. The cleanup operation was "additional economic activity". So if I empty a pot of paint on my brand-new carpet I'm richer than I was? Go figure...

I'm confident that the earth is going to go on perfectly well. There have been mass extinctions before, and they've always acted as a spur to evolution. A few million years, and all those empty eco-slots we're making will have been filled with new species.

But will we be amongst them? Again, I think we probably will. Or something like us will. We're creative and adaptable, and there are so darned many of us that a lot will have just the right attributes to survive and breed in a changed world. We'll evolve (and those smarter descendants will have us as a massive object-lesson in how not to use a planet).

Our grandchildren will curse us, but our great^20th grandchildren will probably say that it was all for the best.
Step by step, moment by moment
We live through another day.

pikaia

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Re: Is the Earth F**cked??
« Reply #53 on: January 04, 2014, 07:03:10 PM »
Most economists seem to take GDP as a measure of wealth. It isn't - it measures "economic activity".
I strongly agree with that - I have always regarded it as absurd that extracting fossil fuel from the ground counts as production, when it is really destruction.


Quote
I'm confident that the earth is going to go on perfectly well. There have been mass extinctions before, and they've always acted as a spur to evolution. A few million years, and all those empty eco-slots we're making will have been filled with new species.
I agree with you there too. If we destroyed 90% of species we might still have the same biomass, though possibly with jellyfish and cockroaches instead of fish and humans. And if we aren't here then I don't see why it matters how many species are left.

JackTaylor

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Re: Is the Earth F**cked??
« Reply #54 on: January 04, 2014, 07:15:18 PM »

Until there is some cataclysmic event political solutions will not work. Forced reductions in emissions, which I'm all for, will not happen.
Economic solutions are even less believable, within today's greed driven system.
So whats left? Legal or civil resistance.


I am another pessimist "Until there is some cataclysmic event" it will be BAU.

Legal or civil resistance - not until there is a sufficient event to sway over 51%.


bligh8

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Re: Is the Earth F**cked??
« Reply #55 on: January 05, 2014, 03:57:31 PM »

Until there is some cataclysmic event political solutions will not work. Forced reductions in emissions, which I'm all for, will not happen.
Economic solutions are even less believable, within today's greed driven system.
So whats left? Legal or civil resistance.


I am another pessimist "Until there is some cataclysmic event" it will be BAU.

Legal or civil resistance - not until there is a sufficient event to sway over 51%.

Hey Jack

Legal or less likely civil resistance are our best options. If we, who understand the
consequences of what is happening do nothing then that's what will happen .. nothing.
It's not so much that I'm an pessimist as much as my thinking is changing towards a solution oriented pathway. And our solutions are growing fewer by the day. In keeping with the title framework of this thread "Is the Earth Fcuked" I might think, well, no, the Earth will go on, it's us and more importantly our children and our g/children who will pay the price for our inaction.

Bill McKibben and James Hansen got it right, there is a course of action. Hansen has described a pathway that could work, I believe it's our best solution. Effective Legal action or a massive legal action (even if it failed legally) might enrage enough of the population to force a political solution. I have my plan .. of action, locally....everyone here should.


It's this type of stupidity that enrages me.

http://www.njherald.com/story/24350171/feds-ok-steel-sea-wall-for-njs-mantoloking-brick

The project is more like 40million and the proposal is 4 miles long, 40ft in total height (25ft below grade and 15ft above) those numbers are not in the article.

Best,
Bligh



Evil prevails when good men fail to act.


JackTaylor

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Re: Is the Earth F**cked??
« Reply #56 on: January 05, 2014, 05:11:01 PM »
Quote
bligh8:
"Legal or less likely civil resistance are our best options"
I hope it will be legal and civil. We've got to stop BAU.

Due to legal costs "not until there is a sufficient event to sway over 51%"
no way can I believe enough people can be plodded into action until circumstances
make them uncomfortable enough to act.

Unfortunately, it may be a pessimist view, waiting for a "sufficient event."

We can keep active in venues such as this to raise awareness and doing our part as we see it to
reduce our footprint, but I can't buy any thing other than reaching a critical mass.

If we can get there, stop BAU, without a sufficient/significant event I'm all for it.

What's the general legal plan and how many participants?


bligh8

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Re: Is the Earth F**cked??
« Reply #57 on: January 05, 2014, 05:30:09 PM »
S, thanks. Yes all of that is true. And as you say, we could, we have, but will we now, when we most need to, most urgently, NOW?


On possible legal approaches, there's this: http://www.resilience.org/stories/2014-01-02/a-legal-call-to-arms-to-remedy-environmental-and-climate-ills

Wili, I moved your provided link from the Weird Weather Thread to here so we might discuss further the judicial efforts already being made. And possible legal efforts yet to be made.

I've read that link before and am aware of the book that was published. However those efforts have been to work within the existing framework of the EPA and the failure of government officials to act within that framework.

What I've been reading about is more along the line of criminal offenses by our political leaders who have demonstrated there affiliations with the FF industry buy excepting money, noticeable from the Krotch Brothers and rejecting legislation that would affect their contributors in a financial way and critically harm the environment for future generations.
Within the wording of the Constitution this type of collusion or conspiracy might be construed as criminal. I have know Idea if this is possible or if it's a pipe dream, but it may be worth the effort to find out.

I've sent emails to many of the current TV broadcasters like national g, Science channel, most if not the major news networks, the weather channel, Smithsonian channel, current tv and others asking why there is no Global Warming programming on Air. These emails were sent to their public relations dept. and often responded to with "We don't make policy" that's if they responded at all. The email I've sent to Forums requesting that they not allow deniers to post were meant with "We respect the rights of dissenting opinions"  To which I replied with and followed through with a public petition to stop that kind of nonsense.

The more noise we make, the sooner policy solutions will be enacted.. and they will be, lets hope it's before the house burns to the ground.

Laurent

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Re: Is the Earth F**cked??
« Reply #58 on: January 06, 2014, 12:21:41 PM »
blight it would be more adequate in the "why some still deny" thread ?

I am really upset that there is 3 documentaries about the poles that says bullshit. How can the public and the politics act...that will be an other excuse for BAU.
First there was this doc with Jean lou Etienne as the voice leader a few weeks ago.
He was saying that the arctic would melt at the end of 2100...really (His last project was sponsored by total)
Then there is this doc about the Antarctic (French-German) :
http://www.arte.tv/guide/fr/042348-000/le-secret-de-la-fonte-des-glaces?autoplay=1
Complete bullshit saying they need to study because it is not sure the warming is due to man or not.
http://www.arte.tv/guide/fr/042348-000/le-secret-de-la-fonte-des-glaces?autoplay=1
And an other one :
They do not say anything about the futur total melting. They say the polar bear will be fine there will always be some piece of land where they could live...Well not likely the ice in summer is over at max in the next ten years, without ice bye,bye polar bear...they will live on land but they will be something else, they will be hybrid, an animal does not exit by itself, polar bear and ice are intricated.
http://www.arte.tv/guide/fr/042806-000/l-ours-blanc?autoplay=1

werther

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Re: Is the Earth F**cked??
« Reply #59 on: January 13, 2014, 11:42:34 AM »
One more brick in the wall locking in a f**cked biosphere…

I read the Cameron government in the UK is willing to bribe local councils into accepting fracking attempts in promising them up to 3M pounds a well in grants, tax revenue and incentives…

Laurent

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Re: Is the Earth F**cked??
« Reply #60 on: January 13, 2014, 11:55:50 AM »

werther

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Re: Is the Earth F**cked??
« Reply #61 on: January 20, 2014, 11:22:07 AM »
Picking the thread up again.... Definitely f**cked! I read the European Commission is throwing the towel in the ring on it's carbon limitation and mitigation effort...
I guess the most optimistic reflection on this is that the Commission seems to say:...we would like to take action, but not now for a while because we're busy with our economy... (while whining about other emitters who don't want to join emission reductions).

You would like to stamp 400ppm on their foreheads when the first monthly average comes in on that shrill benchmark!

bligh8

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Re: Is the Earth F**cked??
« Reply #62 on: February 26, 2014, 04:24:42 AM »
blight it would be more adequate in the "why some still deny" thread ?

I am really upset that there is 3 documentaries about the poles that says bullshit. How can the public and the politics act...that will be an other excuse for BAU.
First there was this doc with Jean lou Etienne as the voice leader a few weeks ago.
He was saying that the arctic would melt at the end of 2100...really (His last project was sponsored by total)
Then there is this doc about the Antarctic (French-German) :
http://www.arte.tv/guide/fr/042348-000/le-secret-de-la-fonte-des-glaces?autoplay=1
Complete bullshit saying they need to study because it is not sure the warming is due to man or not.
http://www.arte.tv/guide/fr/042348-000/le-secret-de-la-fonte-des-glaces?autoplay=1
And an other one :
They do not say anything about the futur total melting. They say the polar bear will be fine there will always be some piece of land where they could live...Well not likely the ice in summer is over at max in the next ten years, without ice bye,bye polar bear...they will live on land but they will be something else, they will be hybrid, an animal does not exit by itself, polar bear and ice are intricated.
http://www.arte.tv/guide/fr/042806-000/l-ours-blanc?autoplay=1

Sorry I missed your post
the force is strong within the denier camp. But back on topic, I feel we are teetering on the brink of being fcuked. Beliveing as I do there's hope, I act as if, and do what I can. Which is all any of us can do.  One thing, the Can/taroil sand pipe line is still on hold. With so much money and international pressure....it's still on hold. Ever wonder why? For what, 6 months, a year or more and it's still not a done deal. With the stupid gov report sayin it will not have a large impact on the environment and with the Kroch bro's and the oil barons pushing...and it's still on hold, why?  .. I'm not sayin it won't happen, but something is putting this thing on hold. I believe there are new players at the table, folks with some common sense and scientific knowledge and other things that matter.

Best,
Bligh

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Re: Is the Earth F**cked??
« Reply #63 on: February 26, 2014, 03:34:41 PM »
blight it would be more adequate in the "why some still deny" thread ?

I am really upset that there is 3 documentaries about the poles that says bullshit. How can the public and the politics act...that will be an other excuse for BAU.
First there was this doc with Jean lou Etienne as the voice leader a few weeks ago.
He was saying that the arctic would melt at the end of 2100...really (His last project was sponsored by total)
Then there is this doc about the Antarctic (French-German) :
http://www.arte.tv/guide/fr/042348-000/le-secret-de-la-fonte-des-glaces?autoplay=1
Complete bullshit saying they need to study because it is not sure the warming is due to man or not.
http://www.arte.tv/guide/fr/042348-000/le-secret-de-la-fonte-des-glaces?autoplay=1
And an other one :
They do not say anything about the futur total melting. They say the polar bear will be fine there will always be some piece of land where they could live...Well not likely the ice in summer is over at max in the next ten years, without ice bye,bye polar bear...they will live on land but they will be something else, they will be hybrid, an animal does not exit by itself, polar bear and ice are intricated.
http://www.arte.tv/guide/fr/042806-000/l-ours-blanc?autoplay=1

Sorry I missed your post
the force is strong within the denier camp. But back on topic, I feel we are teetering on the brink of being fcuked. Beliveing as I do there's hope, I act as if, and do what I can. Which is all any of us can do.  One thing, the Can/taroil sand pipe line is still on hold. With so much money and international pressure....it's still on hold. Ever wonder why? For what, 6 months, a year or more and it's still not a done deal. With the stupid gov report sayin it will not have a large impact on the environment and with the Kroch bro's and the oil barons pushing...and it's still on hold, why?  .. I'm not sayin it won't happen, but something is putting this thing on hold. I believe there are new players at the table, folks with some common sense and scientific knowledge and other things that matter.

Best,
Bligh

Delaying, even stopping the pipeline forever is a lot like this. Not much comfort here.

JimD

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Re: Is the Earth F**cked??
« Reply #64 on: February 26, 2014, 06:24:08 PM »
One thing, the Can/taroil sand pipe line is still on hold. With so much money and international pressure....it's still on hold. Ever wonder why? For what, 6 months, a year or more and it's still not a done deal. With the stupid gov report sayin it will not have a large impact on the environment and with the Kroch bro's and the oil barons pushing...and it's still on hold, why?  .. I'm not sayin it won't happen, but something is putting this thing on hold. I believe there are new players at the table, folks with some common sense and scientific knowledge and other things that matter.

Best,
Bligh

Bligh

It could also be that Obama is waiting for the opportune time to approve it to gain the most political capital.  In the coming fight with the Republicans over control of Congress Obama can use approval at the right time to boost the election chances of a number of Democrats and blunt the Republican efforts.  I strongly suspect that he is in favor of approval due to his past support of coal and oil/gas exploration/production efforts.   He has a very weak track record on environmental concerns and now we have all the safety issues cropping up with tankering the oil and shipping by rail to push towards approval of the pipeline. 
We do not err because truth is difficult to see. It is visible at a glance. We err because this is more comfortable. Alexander Solzhenitsyn

How is it conceivable that all our technological progress - our very civilization - is like the axe in the hand of the pathological criminal? Albert Einstein

bligh8

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Re: Is the Earth F**cked??
« Reply #65 on: February 26, 2014, 07:04:52 PM »
Jim,
You are absolutly correct..Obama talks one game and plays another.  My reasoning was defined by a news show/article from Al Jazeera news...I find their news fairly accurate, at least encompassing world events on a even keel.

The thrust of the show was of course the pipeline...the two panel guest were heavyweight money guys from the communication and shipping industry. There was the normal give a go but in the end , one guy flat out said. I've got the money and this is not going to happen. Which gave me pause to think about the history of this project.

Even today there was an announcement initiating an investigation into the State Dept handling of the recent report announcing that the pipeline would not have an environmental impact.

http://thehill.com/blogs/e2-wire/e2-wire/199200-grijalva-gao-to-investigate-state-dept-keystone-xl-review#.Uw0T2NJBeus.twitter

This kind of thing gives me hope...all it takes is one, just one of these types of events to fail and hopefully things will cascade and we the people will start dailing down our never ending quest to destruction.

Jim, I'm just a simple old sailor and do not pretend to understand to complexities of politics.

But I would like to think there's hope.

Best,
Bligh


bligh8

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Re: Is the Earth F**cked??
« Reply #66 on: February 26, 2014, 07:44:01 PM »
Quote
bligh8:
"Legal or less likely civil resistance are our best options"
I hope it will be legal and civil. We've got to stop BAU.

Due to legal costs "not until there is a sufficient event to sway over 51%"
no way can I believe enough people can be plodded into action until circumstances
make them uncomfortable enough to act.

Unfortunately, it may be a pessimist view, waiting for a "sufficient event."

We can keep active in venues such as this to raise awareness and doing our part as we see it to
reduce our footprint, but I can't buy any thing other than reaching a critical mass.

If we can get there, stop BAU, without a sufficient/significant event I'm all for it.

What's the general legal plan and how many participants?

Hey Jack,

I've been really inactive on the board and am just catching up here a-bit....sorry

The legal part would have to be constitutional law...you know, that thing about one generation has the responsibility to leave the environment in a usable condition for the next.  More than that I dunno.
With what I see going on today and over the last year or so with the climate/weather, folks are starting to take notice. Large, popular forums have banned deniers from posting. Cerently not all of them but it's a start.
I'll tell who does believe in agw in a big way and that is the insurance companies....along with local governments along the major coast lines.
The townshit I live in devalued my property 50 grand...Ouch...this year.
And now there is a new proposal to build another Sea wall, this one 4 miles long...40ft high, 25ft below grade and 15ft above and bury the damn thing in sand. This will be wall #2.
This demonstrates two things, one they accept the problem is real and two, we need to do something about it.
In my opinion we should be subsidizing mass programs to move people and infrastructure away from the coast lines.
What their doing now is like putting a band aid on a severed artery.
According to what I've read here, sea level rise is imminent, and in a most profound way.

If we do not start responding instead of reacting, as the title of this thread sugget, We are Fcuked.

Best,
Bligh

bligh8

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Re: Is the Earth F**cked??
« Reply #67 on: February 26, 2014, 07:49:52 PM »
blight it would be more adequate in the "why some still deny" thread ?

I am really upset that there is 3 documentaries about the poles that says bullshit. How can the public and the politics act...that will be an other excuse for BAU.
First there was this doc with Jean lou Etienne as the voice leader a few weeks ago.
He was saying that the arctic would melt at the end of 2100...really (His last project was sponsored by total)
Then there is this doc about the Antarctic (French-German) :
http://www.arte.tv/guide/fr/042348-000/le-secret-de-la-fonte-des-glaces?autoplay=1
Complete bullshit saying they need to study because it is not sure the warming is due to man or not.
http://www.arte.tv/guide/fr/042348-000/le-secret-de-la-fonte-des-glaces?autoplay=1
And an other one :
They do not say anything about the futur total melting. They say the polar bear will be fine there will always be some piece of land where they could live...Well not likely the ice in summer is over at max in the next ten years, without ice bye,bye polar bear...they will live on land but they will be something else, they will be hybrid, an animal does not exit by itself, polar bear and ice are intricated.
http://www.arte.tv/guide/fr/042806-000/l-ours-blanc?autoplay=1



Delaying, even stopping the pipeline forever is a lot like this. Not much comfort here.

Not sure how that story ended....was the little dutch boy successful?

Best,
Bligh

JimD

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Re: Is the Earth F**cked??
« Reply #68 on: February 26, 2014, 08:24:30 PM »
My reasoning was defined by a news show/article from Al Jazeera news...I find their news fairly accurate, at least encompassing world events on a even keel.


Last Christmas at the in-laws in Wyoming we were having a political discussion and someone quoted Fox News. I piped up and pointed out that independent analysis of news reporting showed that Al Jazeera was more accurate than Fox was.  I was not sure I was going to get out of there alive.  LOL  They think that ABC news is one of the last bastions of liberal/socialistic/communistic thought and are completely unswayed by my pointing out that Dianne Sawyer was a staffer in the Nixon Whitehouse (he was not a real conservative you know) and that there is no such thing as liberal broadcast media in the US.  Ignorance runs deep.
We do not err because truth is difficult to see. It is visible at a glance. We err because this is more comfortable. Alexander Solzhenitsyn

How is it conceivable that all our technological progress - our very civilization - is like the axe in the hand of the pathological criminal? Albert Einstein

ritter

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Re: Is the Earth F**cked??
« Reply #69 on: February 26, 2014, 08:46:06 PM »
and that there is no such thing as liberal broadcast media in the US.  Ignorance runs deep.

Sure there is. You just need to come out to the People's Republic of Berkeley! KPFA, baby! http://www.kpfa.org/home

(It's actually too liberal for me!)

JackTaylor

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Re: Is the Earth F**cked??
« Reply #70 on: February 26, 2014, 10:51:45 PM »
Hey Jack,

I've been really inactive on the board and am just catching up here a-bit....sorry ~~

~~ In my opinion we should be subsidizing mass programs to move people and infrastructure away from the coast lines ~~

Best,
Bligh

Bligh,
Welcome back, no need to be sorry. I hope there was some "smooth sailing" involved during your absence.

Subsidize evacuating coastal areas - maybe - maybe not, I still out to lunch on it.

However, we have got to stop "reimbursing rebuilding" via low cost insurance (govt subsidized ?).

In my opinion we let nature rule and the insurance companies through full actuarial risk cost to the "occupants/businesses" depopulate the shore line.

R,
JT


bligh8

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Re: Is the Earth F**cked??
« Reply #71 on: February 27, 2014, 12:24:09 AM »
My reasoning was defined by a news show/article from Al Jazeera news...I find their news fairly accurate, at least encompassing world events on a even keel.


Last Christmas at the in-laws in Wyoming we were having a political discussion and someone quoted Fox News. I piped up and pointed out that independent analysis of news reporting showed that Al Jazeera was more accurate than Fox was.  I was not sure I was going to get out of there alive.  LOL  They think that ABC news is one of the last bastions of liberal/socialistic/communistic thought and are completely unswayed by my pointing out that Dianne Sawyer was a staffer in the Nixon Whitehouse (he was not a real conservative you know) and that there is no such thing as liberal broadcast media in the US.  Ignorance runs deep.

That's purty funny...I had kinda the same......My Moms  (she's 94) stopped by to have dinner with us.  I was in the back room watching the News..Al Jazeera.. She walks in, looks at the tv and remarks  Why ya watchin El Queada! lol  moms is cool.

bligh8

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Re: Is the Earth F**cked??
« Reply #72 on: February 27, 2014, 12:50:00 AM »
Hey Jack,

I've been really inactive on the board and am just catching up here a-bit....sorry ~~

~~ In my opinion we should be subsidizing mass programs to move people and infrastructure away from the coast lines ~~

Best,
Bligh

Bligh,
Welcome back, no need to be sorry. I hope there was some "smooth sailing" involved during your absence.

Subsidize evacuating coastal areas - maybe - maybe not, I still out to lunch on it.

However, we have got to stop "reimbursing rebuilding" via low cost insurance (govt subsidized ?).

In my opinion we let nature rule and the insurance companies through full actuarial risk cost to the "occupants/businesses" depopulate the shore line.

R,
JT

Hey Jack

Yea, I think there about there now....I just looked into insurance, something I've not considered or have been required to have. Now with the new flood maps if I were to sell, the next owner having a mortgage, would be required to have insurance.  The numbers I was quoted were silly.
30 grand worth of converge for the house and 10 for possessions came to just under a grand.
So having a new mortgage might require full coverage. I cant imagine what the cost would be.
I've heard silly numbers for folks in a velocity zones and the house not raised might be 25 grand a year. So the banks and insurance companies understand full well whats going on.
I'm at 21ft above sea level(@mean higher high)and a mile from the Ocean, previously that was not considered a flood zone, not so these days.

Best,
Bligh

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We do not err because truth is difficult to see. It is visible at a glance. We err because this is more comfortable. Alexander Solzhenitsyn

How is it conceivable that all our technological progress - our very civilization - is like the axe in the hand of the pathological criminal? Albert Einstein

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Re: Is the Earth F**cked??
« Reply #74 on: March 01, 2014, 05:14:15 PM »
Hey Jim

http://gawker.com/scientist-sorry-its-too-late-to-avoid-environmental-1532638330

This is an older article but interestingly accurate

Quoting Lovelock.

“Sustainable development? "Words that mean nothing." Carbon offsetting? "Just a joke." Recycling? "A waste of time." Wind energy? "Waste of time." You have to respect the fact that James Lovelock is not going to sugar coat this for you: You are fucked.”

The last three words in the quote caught my attention and seemed they belong here.

The thought of a 88yr old scientist of some prominence said those words, what 6yrs ago. My associative thinking with this thread kinda got a chuckle.




JimD

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Re: Is the Earth F**cked??
« Reply #75 on: March 01, 2014, 05:49:03 PM »
bligh8

So we have another 14 years to go huh. 

It will be interesting to see what the effects of the building El Nino (see I am already sucked into assuming it is going to happen too lol ) will be.  After all these years of La Nina effects we all think we are going to get hit with a hot burst of noise on the long rise to oblivion.  If they are bad enough it might just rush us along a little faster.  Popcorn and beer I guess.
We do not err because truth is difficult to see. It is visible at a glance. We err because this is more comfortable. Alexander Solzhenitsyn

How is it conceivable that all our technological progress - our very civilization - is like the axe in the hand of the pathological criminal? Albert Einstein

bligh8

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Re: Is the Earth F**cked??
« Reply #76 on: March 02, 2014, 03:17:33 PM »
Jim,

This guy Lovelock seems to be spot on in his assessment of things. There for sure have been others predicting the same unfolding events as we see them today.  Your population equation drops in nicely when one looks at what is going on, all over the world, right now. Civil unrest, protest and violence seems to be pervasive almost everywhere.

To me this is never going to settle down…my thinking is; this is just gonna get worse. As climate and population collide with food and water it’s gonna get nasty. As here in the states and other more resourceful countries deal with what they can, we will still have the privilege of the evening news and the Internet to view to unfolding drama.

The El-Nino thread clarifies the possible up-tic of the consequences of what we have done. In that vane of thinking I fear for the Ice, the consequences of aslr would be catastrophic both here in the US and indeed through out the Northern Hemisphere.

Last night I was sitting around a campfire with some friends and neighbors, during a moment of reflection someone asked me what I was thinking, I replied global warming, everyone laughed and continued drinking and merry making.

It’s almost like being plugged into a dark secret of the universe and no one else sees it.
I’ve talked with others about this and I get .. U-huh, and they head out for Wall Mart.

Your Right…..beer and popcorn.

Best,
Bligh

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Re: Is the Earth F**cked??
« Reply #77 on: March 02, 2014, 05:16:21 PM »
This guy Lovelock seems to be spot on in his assessment of things. There for sure have been others predicting the same unfolding events as we see them today.  Your population equation drops in nicely when one looks at what is going on, all over the world, right now. Civil unrest, protest and violence seems to be pervasive almost everywhere.

I think it's worth noting Lovelock did a controversional about face. I happen to broadly agree with his earlier views as being quoted above, notwithstanding that he disowned them for reasons unclear.

To me this is never going to settle down…my thinking is; this is just gonna get worse. As climate and population collide with food and water it’s gonna get nasty. As here in the states and other more resourceful countries deal with what they can, we will still have the privilege of the evening news and the Internet to view to unfolding drama.

You're taking the short view though? I think it will settle down and get better.

I just don't think those things happen until the other side of collapse.

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Re: Is the Earth F**cked??
« Reply #78 on: March 02, 2014, 08:05:03 PM »
The future looks bright if you're a vulture?
We do not err because truth is difficult to see. It is visible at a glance. We err because this is more comfortable. Alexander Solzhenitsyn

How is it conceivable that all our technological progress - our very civilization - is like the axe in the hand of the pathological criminal? Albert Einstein

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Re: Is the Earth F**cked??
« Reply #79 on: March 02, 2014, 08:27:01 PM »
The future looks bright if you're a vulture?

I dunno, I'd argue their population just peaks a bit later...