Support the Arctic Sea Ice Forum and Blog

Author Topic: Nuclear Power  (Read 164897 times)

Sebastian Jones

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 299
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 42
  • Likes Given: 34
Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1200 on: July 31, 2019, 07:34:48 AM »
In the absence of population reduction, all 'wicked problems' are insolvable.

My understanding of wicked problems is there are no solutions to them, as solutions simply change them and often make them worse. All we can do is address a wicked problem and see what happens and try something else.
Somebody ( sorry, I forget who) observed there there are no global problems that would not be easier to solve with a lower population.

Sam

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 109
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 72
  • Likes Given: 15
Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1201 on: July 31, 2019, 08:06:44 AM »
In the absence of population reduction, all 'wicked problems' are insolvable.

My understanding of wicked problems is there are no solutions to them, as solutions simply change them and often make them worse. All we can do is address a wicked problem and see what happens and try something else.
Somebody ( sorry, I forget who) observed there there are no global problems that would not be easier to solve with a lower population.

"Wicked Problems" are a class of Systems Problems. They occur when the extent and intricacies of the problem are such that a full solution either cannot be known, or where actions to deal with it cannot be fielded faster than the speed at which the problem changes in response to the changes you make. That isn't a textbook definition, but it does give a bit of idea as to what they are.

Classic examples are things like major cities. The leaders of the cities have limited funding and resources. They (hopefully with the guidance and support of the populace) then make plans for the cities evolution. However, every step of implementing those solutions changes the problem. And companies and people respond to those changes and take actions of their own that further change the problem in ways that may well subvert the original plans.

For example: Say the leaders and populace decide they want a new stadium. They decide where and they decide to put in the appropriate mass transit (freeways, etc...) to do that. But in beginning the project, businesses find that the road infrastructure is now better for them to support a new facility, so they build. People find that they can build or rent housing for less and so that grows in too, all before the stadium is built. And by the time it is built the rest of the infrastructure is over taxed and congestion to the new stadium is a serious problem. Etc...

The growth then becomes somewhat haphazard and creates a set of compounding difficulties. These often involve issues (like water availability, sewerage, ...) that were never adequately considered at the beginning.

It is possible to deal with wicked problems. You just cannot ever actually solve them. Different strategies are required.

The same holds true for predicaments as versus problems. Problems can be solved. Predicaments are more complex and cannot. Predicaments often involve irreversible changes as well. As a result, we have to adapt to predicaments, and solve the many problems they pose as they arise.

The key issue is then knowing that a particular issue is a predicament rather than a much simpler "problem". Once you know that, you can change strategies.

Climate Change is now a predicament , as well as a wicked system (not just a wicked problem). We cannot "solve" climate change. We can employ strategies to hopefully forestall the worst outcomes. But we cannot even necessarily know what those are.

And if we naively wait until we are certain about the severity of the impacts the momentum of the system will have already carried us to a place that we cannot ever return from.

Those are not as well stated as I might like. Hopefully they convey the ideas.

Sam

TerryM

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 4745
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 181
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1202 on: July 31, 2019, 06:33:54 PM »
Thanks Sam!
Terry

vox_mundi

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1092
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 277
  • Likes Given: 84
Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1203 on: August 01, 2019, 02:33:09 AM »
Ohio Republicans Balked at a Nuclear Bailout, So the Industry Elected New Republicans — and Walked Away With $1.1 Billion
https://theintercept.com/2019/07/26/ohio-billion-dollar-nuclear-bailout-firstenergy/

On Tuesday, a dark-money effort linked primarily to the Ohio nuclear industry delivered an audacious payoff, as a newly elected state legislature overcame years of opposition to shower a $1.1 billion bailout on two state nuclear plants.

Several dark-money groups spent millions to replace key Republican state legislators in the spring of 2018, followed by a furious lobbying campaign to make sure those new lawmakers elected a new House speaker — one who was amenable to the subsidy. The nuclear industry in Ohio has been on the brink of failure for several years, but previous legislatures had objected to a bailout, reading the writing on the wall: Nuclear power is neither a cost-effective solution for power nor an effective response to climate change, despite hopes for its success.

In April 2018, two nuclear plants, both owned by the electric utility FirstEnergy, filed for bankruptcy and have been threatening to cease operations if not bailed out. They were under increasing pressure to compete with cheaper alternatives, ranging from natural gas to wind and solar. The bankruptcy filings give a glimpse into the company’s political spending: more than $30 million from 2018-2019 on lobbying and campaigns in Ohio and Pennsylvania (where the company also sought a bailout, so far unsuccessfully).

The dark-money effort deployed a variety of vehicles that went by names like the Conservative Leadership Alliance and the Ohio Clean Energy Jobs Alliance. Murray Energy, a coal company, also gave heavily to current state House Speaker Larry Householder and his allied candidates, and the bailout from Ohio also includes subsidies to prop up failing coal plants in the state.

The payoff is extraordinary in degree — something like $30 million for campaigns in Ohio and Pennsylvania to win $1.1 billion in government subsidy. But it is similar in kind to other nuclear projects across the country. According to the Environmental Working Group, a nonprofit devoted to research and advocacy, five cash-strapped states across the country have foisted more than $15 billion in subsidies on failing nuclear power plants since 2016, the latest sign that nuclear is unable to stand in a competitive energy market against lower-cost renewables.

« Last Edit: August 01, 2019, 02:42:00 AM by vox_mundi »
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

vox_mundi

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1092
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 277
  • Likes Given: 84
Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1204 on: August 08, 2019, 05:49:10 PM »
Radiation Briefly Spikes in Russian City After Rocket Engine Explosion: TASS
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-blast-rocket-radiation/radiation-briefly-spikes-in-russian-city-after-rocket-engine-explosion-tass-idUSKCN1UY1D5

MOSCOW (Reuters) - A short-term spike in radiation levels was recorded in a northern Russian city after a rocket engine exploded at a military testing site on Thursday, TASS news agency cited a spokeswoman for city authorities in Severodvinsk as saying.

The explosion of a liquid-propellant rocket engine killed two people on Thursday in Russia’s northern Arkhangelsk region, but released no dangerous substances into the atmosphere, RIA news agency had earlier cited the Defence Ministry as saying. (- Trust us ... would we lie?)

Russian state media reported the Severodvinsk accident happened aboard a vessel, while the military said it happened on land.



-----------------------

Russia Closes Part of White Sea to Shipping for a Month After Explosion: Ifax
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2019/08/08/russia-closes-part-of-white-sea-to-shipping-for-a-month-after-fatal-explosion-a66762
https://thebarentsobserver.com/en/security/2019/08/casualties-after-missile-jet-engine-explosion-near-severodivnsk

MOSCOW (Reuters) - Russia closed off an area of the White Sea to shipping for a month after the fatal explosion of a rocket engine on a military testing ground in Russia’s north earlier on Thursday, Interfax news agency cited the port of Arkhangelsk as saying.

The explosion of a liquid-propellant rocket engine killed two people on Thursday in Russia’s northern Arkhangelsk region, RIA news agency cited the Defence Ministry as saying earlier.

A port official said the Dvina Bay area of the White Sea would be closed to shipping.

The rocket engine explosion occurred at a weapons testing area near the village of Nyonoksa in Arkhangelsk region, the Interfax news agency cited unnamed security sources as saying.

Russian media said an area near Nyonoksa is used for testing of liquid fueled engines of ballistic missiles for strategic nuclear-powered submarines.

The only known weapon systems with nuclear propulsion under development and testing are the Poseidon underwater drone and the Burevestnik cruise missile.


Satellite image from Google Earth showing the Nyonoksa naval missile testing facility.
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

vox_mundi

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1092
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 277
  • Likes Given: 84
Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1205 on: August 08, 2019, 11:34:48 PM »
More info on Russian radiation leak ...

... Online tracking data shows that a nuclear fuel carrier ship was in the general area of the incident at the time. It is possible that the explosion in some way impacted that vessel, leading to a radiation leak.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/29326/what-we-know-about-a-reported-radiation-leak-in-russia-after-a-missile-engine-exploded

The BBC, in its reporting of the incident, wrote, “A woman in Severodvinsk named only Alina told Russian news site lenta.ru: 'I work in the hospital where they're bringing the injured. They advise everyone to close their windows and drink iodine, 44 drops per glass of water.'"

The U.S. Centers for Disease Control (CDC) says potassium iodide is used to prevent the buildup of the radioactive isotope Iodine-131 in the thyroid gland, which could lead to thyroid cancer. Iodine-131, the CDC explains, “is produced commercially for medical and industrial uses through nuclear fission. It also is a byproduct of nuclear fission processes in nuclear reactors and weapons testing.”

https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/weapons/a28648523/russian-missile-explosion-radiation-warning/
« Last Edit: August 09, 2019, 12:43:10 AM by vox_mundi »
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

vox_mundi

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1092
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 277
  • Likes Given: 84
Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1206 on: August 09, 2019, 04:42:11 PM »
Fukushima Nuclear Plant Out of Space for Radioactive Water
https://m.techxplore.com/news/2019-08-fukushima-nuclear-space-radioactive.html

The utility company operating Fukushima's tsunami-devastated nuclear power plant says it will run out of space to store massive amounts of contaminated water in three years, adding pressure on the government and the public to reach a consensus on what to do with it.

The plant has more than 1 million tons of treated but still radioactive water in nearly 1,000 tanks. Experts recommend the controlled release of the water into the sea, but local residents oppose it.

Experts say the tanks pose flooding and radiation risks and hamper decommissioning efforts at the plant.

----------------

Japan to Scrap Remaining Nuclear Reactors in Fukushima
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2019/07/japan-shut-remaining-nuclear-reactors-fukushima-190731134314037.html

Tepco to decommission four more reactors in the Fukushima prefecture, eight years after Japan's worst nuclear disaster

Tokyo Electric Power Company has announced plans to decommission its Fukushima Daini nuclear plant, located a few kilometres south of the Fukushima Daiichi plant where three reactors melted down after an earthquake and tsunami in 2011.

Tepco's board on Wednesday approved the plan to decommission the four nuclear reactors at Daini plant. It means all 10 nuclear reactors in the northeastern Fukushima prefecture will be decommissioned.

-----------------

Fukushima Earthquake: Japan Hit by 6.2-Magnitude Tremor
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/fukushima-earthquake-today-japan-tokyo-tremors-usgs-latest-a9038601.html
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

vox_mundi

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1092
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 277
  • Likes Given: 84
Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1207 on: August 10, 2019, 02:18:28 AM »
Russians Buy Up Iodine in Arctic Rocket Radiation Scare 
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-europe-49295521

... There has been a rush to buy medical iodine in Russia's far north, following a brief radiation spike linked to a rocket accident, Russian media report.

Pharmacies' stocks of iodine are reported to be running out in the cities of Arkhangelsk and Severodvinsk.

... It also said medics who evacuated the injured at Nyonoksa wore chemical and nuclear protection suits.


There was a rush on iodine stocks during the 1986 Chernobyl nuclear disaster in Ukraine, which sent a huge plume of radiation across Europe.

On Thursday the Severodvinsk administration reported a 40-minute spike in radiation, which reached 2 microsieverts per hour, then fell back to the normal 0.11 microsieverts. Both levels are too small to cause radiation sickness.

The administration has now deleted its statement online about the spike. The BBC asked officials there why, and they said "because this incident comes under the authority of the defence ministry".

http://giphygifs.s3.amazonaws.com/media/poZnXsKLvTVGo/giphy.gif
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

vox_mundi

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1092
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 277
  • Likes Given: 84
Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1208 on: August 10, 2019, 07:07:12 PM »
Russia Admits Mysterious Missile Engine Explosion Involved A Nuclear 'Isotope Power Source'
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/29356/russia-admits-mysterious-missile-engine-explosion-involved-nuclear-isotope-power-source



Russia's state-run nuclear corporation Rosatom says that a team of its employees had been working on an experimental "isotope power source" when it exploded, killing five people and injuring three more in a still very mysterious accident yesterday. The company offered no specifics about the project, but this new information, coupled with other details, suggests that this power source may be associated with a nuclear-powered cruise missile called Burevestnik that the Kremlin first announced publicly last year.

The 9M730 Burevestnik (Russian: Буревестник; "Petrel", NATO reporting name: SSC-X-9 Skyfall) is an experimental Russian nuclear-powered, nuclear-armed cruise missile and is claimed to have virtually unlimited range.

Previous reports, citing anonymous U.S. officials, indicate that the Russians had been testing this missile, details about which are extremely limited, since at least 2017, from Novaya Zemlya, a remote archipelago in Russia’s far north that has also served as a nuclear weapon testing ground.

... Unlike a missile using a conventional jet engine or rocket motor, the nuclear power plant could potentially keep the missile flying for weeks on end and give it virtually unlimited range, making it a nightmare for anyone trying to defend against it. Unfortunately, this also means that any test of the weapon, even one without a live warhead, still involves launching a radioactive payload.

Quote
... Whether or not the test fails – and crashes or explodes – or the missile succeeds in reaching its destination, it will always involve crashing a nuclear reactor into the ground or the ocean.




The presence of the nuclear fuel carrier ship Serebryanka in the area at the time of the accident also points to Burevestnik. This ship was reportedly part of a flotilla that Russia sent into the Arctic to reportedly recover one or more crashed Burevestniks last year. The vessel, which is configured to safely transport nuclear fuel rods and similar cargo, would be well suited to carrying nuclear-powered cruise missiles. This ship remains inside a portion of the Dvina Bay in the White Sea that the Russian government closed off to all public and commercial activity after the incident.



... A news site, Baza, released a video it said showed ambulances delivering injured people to a Moscow hospital. The vehicle doors were sealed with plastic sheeting, apparently to prevent the release of contamination from the patient’s bodies, and the drivers wore white protective suits.

We continue to monitor the events in the Russian far north but Moscow’s assurances that ‘everything is normal’ ring hollow to us,” said a senior Trump administration official.

This reminds us of a string of incidents dating back to Chernobyl that call into question whether the Kremlin prioritizes the welfare of the Russian people above maintaining its own grip on power and its control over weak corruption streams.”

Putin boasted about the nuclear-powered cruise missile in a March 2018 speech to the Russian parliament, indicating how it was successfully tested in late 2017, had “unlimited range” and was “invincible against all existing and prospective missile defense and counter-air defense systems.”

Quote
... The Comprehensive Nuclear-Test-Ban Treaty Organization (CTBTO), which monitors compliance with this agreement prohibiting nuclear explosions for any purpose, has issued a statement saying that they detected the incident coinciding with the accident at Nyonoksa seismically and via infrasound. However, they did not say that they believed what they had detected was a nuclear weapon detonating.



... A 1950s U.S. version of nuclear powered rockets - Project Pluto - was killed by the advent of the intercontinental ballistic missile. It was also too dangerous to test—airborne nuclear propulsion designs spew enormous amounts of radiation in their wake. While this may sound like a minor quibble against the backdrop of full-scale nuclear war, it’s a showstopper in peacetime. Or at least it was.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/aug/10/russian-nuclear-agency-confirms-role-in-rocket-test-explosion
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-blast-usa/u-s-based-experts-suspect-russia-blast-involved-nuclear-powered-missile-idUSKCN1UZ2H5

------------------------

Russia Is Going Fishing for a Lost Nuclear-Powered Missile
https://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/russia-is-going-fishing-for-a-lost-nuclear-powered-miss-1828556396

On August 8th, a Russian naval flotilla set off from Severomorsk. The eight ship task force is allegedly on a “safety of navigation exercise,” but the presence of the crane ship KIL-143 has raised suspicions the flotilla’s real purpose is to recover the lost Burevestnik. Another, according to The Diplomat, is probably the specialized nuclear fuel container vessel Serebryanka.

If the U.S. does launch a covert recovery effort, the nuclear attack submarine USS Jimmy Carter could be a major player. A Seawolf-class attack submarine designed to operate in arctic conditions, Jimmy Carter is unique in having been built also built with a 100 foot insert designed to accommodate undersea divers, remotely operated vehicles, and even manned submersibles. The possibility that the Americans could get there first—or show up during the recovery effort—is perhaps why the Russian guided missile destroyer Vice-Admiral Kulakov is accompanying the recovery flotilla.

--------------------------------

... Cue 'We'll Meet Again' - Vera Lynn
« Last Edit: August 11, 2019, 12:55:12 AM by vox_mundi »
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

DrTskoul

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1402
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 174
  • Likes Given: 59
Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1209 on: August 11, 2019, 12:09:09 AM »
 From Wikipedia

Quote
A picture of an Aircraft Nuclear Propulsion system, known as HTRE-3(Heat Transfer Reactor Experiment no. 3). The central EBR-1 based reactor took the place of chemical fuel combustion to heat the air. The reactor rapidly raised the temperature via an air heat exchanger and powered the dual J47 engines in a number of ground tests

Quote
Research into nuclear-powered aircraft was pursued during the Cold War by the United States and the Soviet Union as they would presumably allow a country to keep nuclear bombers in the air for extremely long periods of time, a useful tactic for nuclear deterrence. Neither country created any operational nuclear aircraft. One design problem, never adequately solved, was the need for heavy shielding to protect the crew from radiation sickness. Since the advent of ICBMs in the 1960s the tactical advantage of such aircraft was greatly diminished and respective projects were cancelled. Because the technology was inherently dangerous it was not considered in non-military contexts. Nuclear-powered missiles were also researched and discounted during the same period.

From 2018: Russia Reveals ‘Unstoppable' Nuclear-Powered Cruise Missile

Fro Project Pluto: SLAM : Supersonic Low Altitude Missile ( same as the 2018 announced cedar Russian cruise missile)
Quote
The Supersonic Low Altitude Missile or SLAM was a U.S. Air Force nuclear weapons project conceived around 1955, and cancelled in 1964. SLAMs were conceived of as unmanned nuclear-powered ramjets capable of delivering thermonuclear warheads deep into enemy territory. The development of ICBMs in the 1950s rendered the concept of SLAMs obsolete. Advances in defensive ground radar also made the stratagem of low-altitude evasion ineffective. Although it never proceeded beyond the initial design and testing phase before being declared obsolete, the design contained several radical innovations as a nuclear delivery system

Quote
The primary innovation was the engine of the aircraft, which was developed under the aegis of a separate project code-named Project Pluto, after the Roman god of the underworld. It was a ramjet that used nuclear fission to superheat incoming air instead of chemical fuel. Project Pluto produced two working prototypes of this engine, the Tory-IIA and the Tory-IIC, which were successfully tested in the Nevada desert. Special ceramics had to be developed to meet the stringent weight and tremendous heat tolerances demanded of the SLAM's reactor. These were developed by the Coors Porcelain Company. The reactor itself was designed at the Lawrence Radiation Laboratory.

I have seen the Coors labs where they developed those ceramics. DoD $$ can buy you cool toys...

Quote
Reactor design

The reactor had an outer diameter of 57.25 inches (1.454 m) and length 64.24 inches (1.632 m); the dimensions of the reactor core were 47.24 inches (1.200 m) diameter and 50.70 inches (1.288 m) length. The critical mass of uranium was 59.90 kg, and the reactor's power density averaged at 10 megawatts per cubic foot (350 MW/m3), with total power of 600 megawatts.

The nuclear fuel elements were made of refractory ceramic based on beryllium oxide, with enriched uranium dioxide as fuel and small amount of zirconium dioxide for structural stability. The fuel elements were hollow hexagonal tubes about 4 inches (10 cm) long with 0.3 inches (7.6 mm) distance between the outer parallel planes, with inside diameter of 0.227 inches (5.8 mm). They were manufactured by high-pressure extruding of the green compact, then sintering almost to its theoretical density. The core consisted of 465,000 individual elements stacked to form 27,000 airflow channels; the design with small unattached elements reduced problems related with thermal stresses. The elements were designed for average operation temperature of 2,330 °F (1,277 °C); the autoignition temperature of the reactor base plates was only 150 °C higher. The neutron flux was calculated to be 9×1017 neutrons/(cm2·s) in the aft and 7×1014 neutrons/(cm2·s) in the nose. The gamma radiation level was fairly high due to the lack of shielding; radiation hardening for the guidance electronics had to be designed.

The reactors were successfully tested at Jackass Flats of the Nevada Test Site. The Tory II-A reactor, the scaled-down variant, was tested in mid-1961 and successfully ran for several seconds on May 14, 1961. A full-scale variant, the Tory II-C, was run for almost 5 minutes at full power. The latter test, limited by the air storage facility capacity, ran for 292 seconds. The air fed to the reactor was preheated to 943 °F (506 °C) and compressed to 316 psi (2.18 MPa), to simulate ramjet flight conditions.[


DrTskoul

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1402
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 174
  • Likes Given: 59
Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1210 on: August 11, 2019, 12:12:00 AM »
Good info Vox. Your analysis is right. Those nuclear power plants are not shielded and the gamma radiation is intense.

vox_mundi

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1092
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 277
  • Likes Given: 84
Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1211 on: August 11, 2019, 12:36:45 AM »
A flying (unshielded) 600 megawatt power plant! Dang!  :o
« Last Edit: August 11, 2019, 12:58:07 AM by vox_mundi »
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

DrTskoul

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1402
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 174
  • Likes Given: 59
Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1212 on: August 11, 2019, 01:15:13 AM »
Engine Test

Russian Nuclear Agency Confirms Deaths During Engine Test

Quote
The announcement by Rosatom brings the number of deaths caused by the blast to seven

MOSCOW—Russia’s nuclear energy authority said Saturday that five of its employees were killed in an accident during a test of a nuclear-powered engine, raising questions over the severity of the blast that saw radiation levels briefly spike in the northwestern Arkhangelsk region.

The announcement by Rosatom is the first indication of nuclear elements involved in the blast on Thursday and brings the number of deaths to seven. The agency said the accident occurred during tests of a jet propulsion system that runs on an atomic battery.

The Defense Ministry told news agencies earlier in the week that two of its representatives had died in the accident and three had been injured. Rosatom said three of its employees had been injured and taken to Moscow for treatment. Neither the Defense Ministry nor Rosatom were available for further questions.

Although Russia’s consumer watchdog said the blast presented no danger to humans, local media reported that inhabitants in Arkhangelsk had began to stockpile iodine, which blocks the absorption of radiation. Shipping in the Dvinsk Bay on the White Sea has also been shut down for a month after the accident.

No danger to humans...does that jive with what you read about nuclear propulsion above??
 :o :o :o


KiwiGriff

  • New ice
  • Posts: 93
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 39
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1213 on: August 11, 2019, 01:40:03 AM »
http://www.daviddarling.info/encyclopedia/K/KIWI.html

Quote
KIWI was a series of nuclear reactors, designed and built in the late 1950's and 1960's as part of the Rover program, to develop the basic technology of nuclear thermal rockets (see nuclear propulsion). The KIWI-A series of tests developed the technologies of instrumentation and control, fuel element design and fabrication, and structural design. The KIWI-B series was designed to increase power 10-fold while maintaining the same size. It faced a problem first encountered with KIWI-A: internal vibrations caused by dynamic flow instability fractured portions of the fuel elements. This problem was finally overcome in KIWI-B4. The KIWI-TNT was a test reactor for the effects of sudden explosion and excursion.


Record of the fallout from the kiwi tnt explosion experiment.

https://www.osti.gov/opennet/servlets/purl/16295582/16295582.pdf


vox_mundi

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1092
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 277
  • Likes Given: 84
Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1214 on: August 11, 2019, 01:43:43 AM »
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

DrTskoul

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1402
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 174
  • Likes Given: 59
Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1215 on: August 11, 2019, 01:46:00 AM »
From Kiwi's pdf :


Quote
The walls of several office trailers 800 to 1,000 ft from the test point had deflected, throwing many wall fixtures to the floor but no permanent deformation was evident.

DrTskoul

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1402
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 174
  • Likes Given: 59
Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1216 on: August 11, 2019, 01:54:38 AM »
And :

Quote
Personnel hazards are summarized as follows: Out to approximately 300 ft, almost all radiation exposures would be fatal, being in excess of 1,000
rads
. Between approximately 300 and 600 ft, varying degrees of radiation injury including some fatalities. would occur as exposures would be between 200 and 1.000 rads. Between approximately 600 and 750 ft: exposures would be between 100 and 200 rad, producing slight illness. From 750 to 1,200 ft, exposures would range from 25 to 100 rad, producing some very slight hematological change, but no illness. Beyond 1,200 ft, out to approximately 2,000 ft, there would be little, if
any, injury or clinical effects, but exposures would exceed approximately 3 rads and would require administrative investigation and reporting. Beyond 2,000 ft. there would be no hazard.

Quote
In the briefest summary, a Kiwi-TNT type of excursion, without a fission-product inventory in the reactor, creates inconsequential hazards to personnel and property beyond about 2 miles, a distance that can be reasonably expected to lie outside test areas.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2019, 02:00:02 AM by DrTskoul »

vox_mundi

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1092
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 277
  • Likes Given: 84
Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1217 on: August 11, 2019, 01:58:06 AM »
Also from kiwi's pdf

The fallout patterns on pg. 30 and 51 don't look too harmless either. High rads in excess of 20 miles

------------------------

And from Moscow ...

... “According to several Russian Defense Ministry sources, all the clothes of those who were wounded have already been burned,” Baza reported, per the Moscow Times. “The same has been done with the hazmat suits and clothes of the doctors who first helped the victims.”

Like that's going to make the radiation go bye-bye.
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

TerryM

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 4745
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 181
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1218 on: August 11, 2019, 06:36:53 AM »
<snipped>
Like that's going to make the radiation go bye-bye.
It will prevent them from multiplying though. ???
Terry

DrTskoul

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1402
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 174
  • Likes Given: 59
Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1219 on: August 11, 2019, 06:44:49 AM »
<snipped>
Like that's going to make the radiation go bye-bye.
It will prevent them from multiplying though. ???
Terry

That high IQ must not be passed on...

TerryM

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 4745
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 181
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1220 on: August 11, 2019, 07:09:14 AM »
<snipped>
Like that's going to make the radiation go bye-bye.
It will prevent them from multiplying though. ???
Terry

That high IQ must not be passed on...
Idiocracy was a not fiction!
Terry

vox_mundi

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1092
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 277
  • Likes Given: 84
Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1221 on: August 12, 2019, 01:45:10 PM »
Russia Says Small Nuclear Reactor Blew Up in Deadly Accident
https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2019-08-12/russian-says-small-nuclear-reactor-blew-up-in-deadly-accident

The failed missile test that ended in an explosion killing five scientists last week on Russia’s White Sea involved a small nuclear reactor, according to a top official at the institute where they worked.

The institute is working on small-scale power sources that use “radioactive materials, including fissile and radioisotope materials” for the Defense Ministry and civilian uses, Vyacheslav Soloviev, scientific director of the institute, said in a video shown by local TV.

Vyacheslav Solovyov, the centre’s scientific director, said similar work on “small-scale nuclear reactors” is also taking place in the US. He did not say how much fissile material had been involved in the accident, or what role it may have played in the explosion.

The slow release of information has heightened concerns that a major incident took place offshore from the Nenoksa missile testing site.

Southerly winds and the large distance between the border and the explosion make it unlikely that Finland will detect any radiation, Pia Vesterbacka, director at Finland’s Radiation and Nuclear Safety Authority, said by phone Monday. The authority hasn’t checked its air filters since the incident but expects to have results this week, she added.

--------------------------

Another Three Russian Nuclear Reactors Offline After Short-Circuit Malfunction At Power Plant
https://www.newsweek.com/another-russian-nuclear-reactor-offline-short-circuit-malfunction-power-plant-kalinin-1449947

Three reactors at a Russian nuclear power plant have been taken offline following a short circuit, in what is the second operating incident affecting the national nuclear grid in one week.

Three of the four reactors at the Kalinin power plant were unplugged on Thursday, state news agency Tass reported. The nuclear facility sits just over 200 miles northwest of Moscow and has been in operation since 1985.


Tass cited emergency services in the nearby town of Udomlya who said the first, second and fourth reactors at the plant had been taken offline. The national Emergency Situations Ministry explained that the reactors were unplugged following a short circuit.

Rosenergoatom, a subsidiary of state nuclear corporation Rosatom, released a statement allaying any fears that the incident was cause for alarm. "The radiation level at the station and surrounding territory remains without change and is in line with normal background levels," the organization explained. (... same excuse given after the reactor blew up)



The Kalinin facility is one of ten nuclear power plants operating in Russia, The Moscow Times explained. In 2016, electrical equipment in the power unit of Kalinin's third reactor short-circuited during repair works, injuring two people.

The Kalinin incident is the second involving Russia's nuclear sites in the past week. On Friday, a reactor was shut down at a plant in the central Russian city of Beloyarsk, just over 900 miles east of Moscow.

The reactor was disconnected after an automatic safety mechanism was triggered, Tass reported. No safety issues were found and the reactor resumed operation on Tuesday.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2019, 05:55:36 PM by vox_mundi »
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

DrTskoul

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1402
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 174
  • Likes Given: 59
Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1222 on: August 13, 2019, 12:38:41 AM »
Based on what we discussed above, those ain't small nuclear reactors,  more like unshielded nuclear reactor cores

vox_mundi

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1092
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 277
  • Likes Given: 84
Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1223 on: August 13, 2019, 12:43:47 AM »
Like gerantocrat mentioned in another thread ... Floating Chernobyls
https://www.google.com/amp/s/arstechnica.com/information-technology/2019/08/russian-nuclear-powered-cruise-missile-blows-up-creating-mini-chernobyl/%3famp=1

-------------------------

The 'Donald' cleared up everything ...

https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1161026203345723393

Quote
The United States is learning much from the failed missile explosion in Russia. We have similar, though more advanced, technology. The Russian “Skyfall” explosion has people worried about the air around the facility, and far beyond. Not good!

... he also outed a TS classified project.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/29380/evidence-grows-that-russians-nuclear-powered-doomsday-missile-was-what-blew-up-last-week

------------------

Quote
... Idiocracy was a non fiction!
Terry 

... and Dr. Strangelove was a documentary!
« Last Edit: August 13, 2019, 04:41:25 AM by vox_mundi »
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

DrTskoul

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1402
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 174
  • Likes Given: 59
Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1224 on: August 13, 2019, 02:44:48 AM »
What a fucking moron...

vox_mundi

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1092
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 277
  • Likes Given: 84
Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1225 on: August 13, 2019, 04:33:48 AM »
Hair-Trigger Nuclear Alert Over Kashmir
http://smirkingchimp.com/thread/eric-margolis/86029/hair-trigger-nuclear-alert-over-kashmir

Two of the world’s most important powers, India and Pakistan, are locked into an extremely dangerous confrontation over the bitterly disputed Himalayan mountain state of Kashmir. Both are nuclear armed.

... India has over 500,000 soldiers and paramilitary police garrisoning its portion of Kashmir, whose 12 million people bitterly oppose often corrupt and brutal Indian rule – except for local minority Hindus and Sikhs who support it.

About 250,000 Pakistani troops are dug in on the other side of the ceasefire line.

What makes this confrontation so dangerous is that both sides have important tactical and nuclear forces arrayed against one another. These are mostly short/medium-ranged nuclear tipped missiles, and air-delivered nuclear bombs. Strategic nuclear weapons back up these tactical forces. A nuclear exchange, even a limited one, could kill millions, pollute much of Asia’s ground water, and spread radioactive dust around the globe – including to North America.

India’s new Prime Minister, Narendra Modi, is a Hindu hardliner who is willing to confront Pakistan and India’s 200 million Muslims, who make up over 14% of the population.

Modi is very close to President Donald Trump and Israel’s Benjamin Netanyahu, both noted for anti-Muslim sentiments. Modi just revoked article 370 of India’s constitution that bars non-Kashmiris from buying land in the mountain state, and shut down its phone and internet systems.

The revocation means that non-Kashmiris can now buy land there. Modi is clearly copying Israel’s Netanyahu by encouraging non-Muslims to buy up land and squeeze the local Muslim population. Welcome to the Mideast conflict East. China is also doing similar ethnic inundation in its far western, largely Muslim, Xinjiang (Sinkiang) region.

In an ominous sign, Delhi says it will separate the high altitude Ladakh region (aka ‘Little Tibet’) from its portion of Kashmir. This move suggests India plans to chop up Indian Kashmir into two or three states, a move sure to further enrage Pakistan and thwart any future peace settlement.

There’s little Pakistan can do to block India’s actions. India’s huge armed forces outnumber those of Pakistan by 4 or 5 to one. Without nuclear weapons, Pakistan would be quickly overrun by Indian forces. Only massive Chinese intervention would save Pakistan.

Meanwhile, Kashmir, the world’s longest-running major dispute, continues, threatening a terrible nuclear conflict. Making matters worse, both India and Pakistan’s nuclear forces are on a hair-trigger alert, with a warning time of only minutes. This is a region where electronics often become scrambled. A false alert or a flock of birds could trigger a massive nuclear war in South Asia.

India and Pakistan, where people starve in the streets, waste billions on military spending because of the Kashmir dispute. Now some of India’s extreme Hindu nationalists warn they want to reabsorb Pakistan, Bangladesh, and even Sri Lanka into Mother India.

Previous Indian leaders have been cautious. But not PM Modi. He is showing signs of power intoxication.

---------------------------

You and I in a little toy shop
Buy a bag of balloons with the money we've got
Set them free at the break of dawn
'til one by one, they were gone
Back at base, bugs in the software
Flash the message, "Something's out there"
Floating in the summer sky
99 red balloons go by

99 red balloons
Floating in the summer sky
Panic bells, it's red alert
There's something here from somewhere else
The war machine, it springs to life
Opens up one eager eye
Focusing it on the sky
As 99 red balloons go by

99 Decision Street
99 ministers meet
To worry, worry, super-scurry
Call out the troops out in a hurry
This is what we've waited for
This is it, boys, this is war
The president is on the line
As 99 red balloons go by

99 jahre Krieg Ließen keinen Platz für Sieger

— Nena, “99 Luftballons”[
« Last Edit: August 14, 2019, 02:10:06 AM by vox_mundi »
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

TerryM

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 4745
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 181
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1226 on: August 13, 2019, 01:50:13 PM »
^^
Love the poem!
Wow!
Terry

vox_mundi

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1092
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 277
  • Likes Given: 84
Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1227 on: August 13, 2019, 02:15:04 PM »
Cold-war anti-war protest song by the German band Nena from their 1983 album

https://soundcloud.com/cafedelantaarn/nena-99-luftballons-lyrics
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

vox_mundi

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1092
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 277
  • Likes Given: 84
Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1228 on: August 13, 2019, 07:08:39 PM »
Russian Village Near Site of Suspected Nuclear Missile Explosion to be Evacuated, Report Says
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/08/13/europe/russian-village-evacuation-missile-explosion-intl/index.html

Residents of a Russian village near the site of a suspected explosion of a nuclear-powered missile have been told to evacuate, Russian state news agency RIA-Novosti reported, citing a local official.

Villagers were asked to leave Nyonoksa on Wednesday morning due to planned military activities, RIA reported Tuesday, citing Ksenia Yudina, head of the press service of the Severodvinsk administration

Local news portal tv29.ru reported that Nyonoksa would be evacuated by train between 5:00 a.m. and 7:00 a.m. Wednesday. The settlement is approximately 30 miles from the port city of Severodvinsk.

A local correspondent for the independent investigative newspaper Novaya Gazeta said military officials told residents the evacuation of Nyonoksa was not connected to Thursday's explosion.

-----------------------

Pure coincidence. (... pay no mind to the groundshine)

-----------------------------

... the evacuation comes amid unconfirmed reports that 10 employees of the Arkhangelsk Regional Clinical Hospital, situated in the region's capital of the same name, who had been involved in treating the victims of the explosion have since gone to the Federal Medical Biophysical Center in Moscow for unexplained reasons. That is where three individuals who had suffered injuries in the blast subsequently went for treatment. At least two of those individuals have reportedly since died, adding to the five immediate fatalities from the initial accident.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/29390/russia-will-briefly-evacuate-village-near-site-of-nuclear-powered-missile-accident
« Last Edit: August 13, 2019, 09:53:53 PM by vox_mundi »
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

DrTskoul

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1402
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 174
  • Likes Given: 59
Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1229 on: August 14, 2019, 12:46:30 AM »
Nobody has followed our discussion Vox. It's exactly as the paper you found from the experimental explosion....

vox_mundi

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1092
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 277
  • Likes Given: 84
Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1230 on: August 14, 2019, 01:16:31 AM »
It's a sorry state when a couple of posters on a sea ice blog can gather together better research than The New York Times

Thanks DrT & KiwiGriff

--------------

Update

Russian officials have now canceled the previously announced evacuation of Nyonoksa, saying that the Russian Ministry of Defense had called off a planned exercise in the area. Russian authorities also rescinded a navigational warning for all civilian and commercial ships to avoid a wide swath of the White Sea, which had suggested there might be another missile test coming, despite the accident last week. ( ... No scientists; no test)

If this testing continues at that site, it only raises the potential for more radiological accidents in the future. It's also worth remembering that even if Burevestnik works as advertised, test launching a nuclear-powered missile will always involve deliberately crashing a nuclear reactor into the ground or ocean. 
« Last Edit: August 14, 2019, 01:38:31 AM by vox_mundi »
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

KiwiGriff

  • New ice
  • Posts: 93
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 39
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1231 on: August 14, 2019, 01:29:58 AM »
Thank this forum. I first become aware of the Kiwi experiments from another comment on this blog.
Thank you for the English translation of 99 Luftballons the song has always been a worm in my ear now I know the meaning  even more so.

Evacuate no don't evacuate.
 What we now see is the usual SNAFU once a nuclear incident happens.



 

petm

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 572
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 248
  • Likes Given: 21
Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1232 on: August 14, 2019, 01:45:06 AM »
— Nena, “99 Luftballons”[[/b][/i]

That song still stands my hair on end, even just running through my head.


DrTskoul

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1402
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 174
  • Likes Given: 59
Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1233 on: August 14, 2019, 03:20:25 AM »
There reports th as t some of the doctors treating victims also got sick ...

vox_mundi

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1092
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 277
  • Likes Given: 84
Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1234 on: August 14, 2019, 04:11:32 AM »
There reports th as t some of the doctors treating victims also got sick ...
Appears so . From local news (scuze the translation)...

https://www.translatetheweb.com/?from=&to=en&dl=en&rr=HE&a=https%3a%2f%2fnewsnord.ru%2fv-arhangelske-v-svyazi-so-vzryvom-v-nyonokse-zasekretili-hirurgicheskoe-otdelenie-aokb%2f

In Arkhangelsk, In Connection With The Explosion, The Surgical Department Of Arkhangelsk Regional Clinical Hospital Were Sworn to Secrecy

As the Northern News iA has learned, in the Arkhangelsk Regional Clinical Hospital (AOKB), where the victims of the Nonexa explosion lay, everything related to their reception and assistance was sealed. Medical personnel who worked with the patients have already called the federal security services. The medics signed the non-disclosure papers.

It is said that after the explosion, many hospitals where the military sought help refused to accept the victims. When taking patients to the AOKB, doctors were not warned that they needed (protective) clothing. After the operation, the surgeon's apron was screaming when checking by the radiation diagnostic device. Now all those who somehow contacted the victims have been taken to Moscow for examination.

Employees of the surgical department of the Arkhangelsk Regional Clinical Hospital are in a depressed state. They do not understand why they, ordinary doctors and nurses, those who performed their medical duty, were allowed to do so.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2019, 04:34:32 AM by vox_mundi »
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

DrTskoul

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1402
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 174
  • Likes Given: 59
Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1235 on: August 14, 2019, 04:23:31 AM »
Based on the literature you referred to, most radiation will be in the form of gamma emitting radionuclides

vox_mundi

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1092
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 277
  • Likes Given: 84
Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1236 on: August 14, 2019, 04:37:55 AM »
They will survive, unfortunately, they just won the leukemia and cancer lottery. Hell of a way to repay medical staff for doing their job.

-----------------------

... Some Moscow television broadcasts were mysteriously interrupted for as long as 53 minutes on the night of the accident,” the New York Times reports. “A government broadcast agency later described the disruption as a malfunction of a storm warning system. Screens went blue. A text urged people to stay at home because of a storm with strong winds, but it never arrived.” That warning appeared to be an effort to keep people from possible radiation exposure without disclosing that an accident had occurred.

---------------------

Some 'Donald' damage control (... or call it his 10,001st lie) ...

Why the U.S. Abandoned Nuclear-Powered Missiles More Than 50 Years Ago
https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/research/a28690053/russia-nuclear-powered-missile-skyfall/

President Donald Trump says the U.S. has a missile like the one that killed seven in the Russian arctic. That's untrue, because the U.S. abandoned the idea decades ago.

Last week’s mysterious nuclear accident in Russia became even more mysterious as the government admitted that a small nuclear reactor had exploded, killing seven people.

Evidence is piling up that the incident is somehow related to Russia’s development of a nuclear-powered cruise missile, and President Donald Trump took to Twitter to state that the U.S. has a similar system. One problem: the U.S. looked into nuclear-powered cruise missiles more than half a century ago before rejecting them as impractical.



SLAM was never built because it was too dangerous to even test. The dangerous levels of radioactivity unleashed by the nuclear engine was a big plus in some apocalyptic wartime scenario, but it couldn't even be tested in the skies over the U.S. (... this has never stopped the U.S. military before)


« Last Edit: August 14, 2019, 06:01:00 AM by vox_mundi »
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

vox_mundi

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1092
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 277
  • Likes Given: 84
Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1237 on: August 14, 2019, 05:18:04 AM »
US Nuclear Tests Killed Far More Civilians Than We Knew
https://qz.com/1163140/us-nuclear-tests-killed-american-civilians-on-a-scale-comparable-to-hiroshima-and-nagasaki/



When the US entered the nuclear age, it did so recklessly. New research suggests that the hidden cost of developing nuclear weapons were far larger than previous estimates, with radioactive fallout responsible for 340,000 to 690,000 American deaths from 1951 to 1973.

The study, performed by University of Arizona economist Keith Meyers, uses a novel method (pdf) to trace the deadly effects of this radiation, which was often consumed by Americans drinking milk far from the site of atomic tests.

From 1951 to 1963, the US tested nuclear weapons above ground in Nevada. Weapons researchers, not understanding the risks—or simply ignoring them—exposed thousands of workers to radioactive fallout.

The emissions, however, did not just stay at the test site, and drifted in the atmosphere. Cancer rates spiked in nearby communities, and the US government could no longer pretend that fallout was anything but a silent killer.

When cows consumed radioactive fallout spread by atmospheric winds, their milk became a key channel to transmit radiation sickness to humans. Most milk production during this time was local, with cows eating at pasture and their milk being delivered to nearby communities, giving Meyers a way to trace radioactivity across the country.

The National Cancer Institute has records of the amount of Iodine 131—a dangerous isotope released in the Nevada tests—in milk, as well as broader data about radiation exposure. By comparing this data with county-level mortality records, Meyers came across a significant finding:


Quote
... “Exposure to fallout through milk leads to immediate and sustained increases in the crude death rate.” What’s more, these results were sustained over time. US nuclear testing likely killed seven to 14 times more people than we had thought, mostly in the midwest and northeast.

When the US used nuclear weapons during World War II, bombing the Japanese cities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, conservative estimates suggest 250,000 people died in immediate aftermath. Even those horrified by the bombing didn’t realize that the US would deploy similar weapons against its own people, accidentally, and on a comparable scale.

---------------------

Like the spike in mortality figures from Puerto Rico after Hurricane Maria, only spread over several years.

---------------------

The Forgotten Downwinders
https://www.boiseweekly.com/boise/the-forgotten-downwinders/Content?oid=928401



... Unfortunately, Hughes perfectly fits the prototype of an Idaho fallout victim. Her rural upbringing, her childhood during the Nevada Test Site's atmospheric heyday of 1951 to 1962 and her fondness for fresh, unprocessed milk made her an ideal target for exposure to the radioactive byproduct Iodine 131. Ten years ago, her doctors discovered a metastasized tumor in her thyroid gland, the organ that most bears the brunt of I-131. The cancer has since spread to her lungs, kidneys and spleen. After consulting numerous doctors, Sarah came to believe, like an increasing amount of Idaho cancer victims, that fallout from Nevada is to blame for her condition--and that governmental compensation is a step toward redressing the wrong.

Evidence supporting claims like Hughes' has exploded in the last decade. In 1997, the National Cancer Institute released a study concluding that rural counties in Idaho and Montana had the highest exposure rates to I-131 to be found anywhere in the nation. The reasons for these high numbers have been well documented, and are not mere coincidence, according to Snake River Alliance Executive Director Jeremy Maxand:

Quote
... "Nuclear technicians would wait until the wind was blowing north toward Idaho to detonate these devices," he explains, "because they wanted to ensure that there weren't plumes of radiation heading toward urban centers."

Once in the sky, the I-131 (whose half-life is a mere eight days) would follow weather patterns north to farmlands, settle on grass, be eaten by cows and goats and contaminate their milk. In Ada County, the radiation levels were slight, due to the age of our shelved milk. But in rural areas like Gem, Blaine, Custer and Lemhi Counties, an inhabitant could easily be exposed to several hundred times the normal or background levels of radiation. In children and women, the effects on thyroid glands were more concentrated, leading to many modern-day cancer patients who may be fallout victims without realizing it .

Radiation didn't stop at the Canadian border. We probably killed a few thousand Canadians, too.

 A study of hundreds of thousands of deciduous teeth, collected by Dr. Louise Reiss and her colleagues as part of the Baby Tooth Survey, found a large increase in Strontium 90Sr levels in through the 1950s and early 1960s. The study's final results showed that children born in St. Louis, Missouri in 1963 had levels of Strontium 90Sr in their deciduous teeth that was 50 times higher than that found in children born in 1950, before the advent of large-scale atomic testing.

Commentators on the study said that the fallout was likely to cause increased cases of diseases in those who absorb strontium-90 into their bones.

---------------------

.. Russia tested 130 nuclear bombs, including the world's biggest (nicknamed Tsar Bomba), near the Arctic Circle from 1954-1991 sending radioactive fallout across the polar ice into the Capital Region.

The U.S. Atomic Energy Commission monitored the fallout with Geiger counters and told locals that radiation levels were much lower than they truly were. The commission lied when a hunk of a 44,000 ft tall radioactive cloud from a 1953 U.S. nuclear test drifted for 36 hours all the way to Troy. There radioactive fallout inundated Troy, NY with a thunderstorm's rain.

Albany journalist Bill Heller tells the story in "A Good Day Has No Rain." Nevada nuclear tests continued to contaminate upstate. Rochester-based Kodak threatened to sue the federal government because radioactive fallout was damaging its film. The commission placated Kodak by giving the company advance notice of nuclear tests. New Yorkers were never given this information. Some medical experts linked the radiation exposure to increased thyroid and childhood cancers here.

"The government protected rolls of film but not the lives of people," said U.S. Sen. Tom Harkin, D-Iowa, at a 1997 hearing about the Troy radioactive contamination. "Where were the warnings to parents of children?"

Heller's unsettling history can make Americans wonder about the trustworthiness of information from the government.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2019, 06:10:10 AM by vox_mundi »
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

DrTskoul

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1402
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 174
  • Likes Given: 59
Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1238 on: August 14, 2019, 10:48:10 AM »
During that time the US government was as secretive as the Soviets. It was the arms race ...

TerryM

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 4745
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 181
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1239 on: August 14, 2019, 11:49:54 AM »
As the above air tests were winding down my wife took a job at the EPA in Las Vegas. All of her supervisors (those bringing specimens back to the lab) had died by the time of my (unrelated) hospitalization in 2000.


Much earlier in Galt Ontario the Strontium 90 count was shown on page one with the local weather forecast, We were advised to avoid milk, fresh vegetables and a few other things. Canned products were supposed to be OK because of the lag in time between harvesting and consuming.


I've had a few minor cancers - well at least one of them was minor, the other was treated in a timely manner, but Carole has made it through her first 76 years cancer free.


Terry

vox_mundi

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1092
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 277
  • Likes Given: 84
Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1240 on: August 15, 2019, 12:49:57 AM »
During that time the US government was as secretive as the Soviets. It was the arms race ...
Now, not so much ...

GAO: Energy Dept. Never Blacklists Risky Nuclear-Tech Vendors
https://www.defenseone.com/business/2019/08/gao-energy-dept-never-blacklists-risky-nuclear-tech-vendors/159173/?oref=d-river

The Energy Department is relying increasingly on foreign companies to build components for nuclear weapons, but it’s never once used its authority to exclude risky tech vendors from the supply chain, according to a congressional watchdog.

... Though the energy secretary (... Sect. Oops!) makes the final decision to blacklist risky vendors, the National Nuclear Security Administration is responsible for determining when that authority should be used.

In 2018, NNSA officials told GAO there are multiple foreign tech companies that “present potential security vulnerabilities that could allow for unauthorized access to sensitive information.” Still, they said they likely won’t use enhanced procurement authorities to exclude those vendors ... Specifically, they told GAO the process for blacklisting vendors takes too long.

... While one-off bans on companies like Huawei and Kaspersky Lab can help reduce security risks, federal cyber leaders see them as too narrow to keep compromised software out of the government’s IT ecosystem, leaving the door open for adversaries to “introduce into the components malicious code or malware that could … undermin[e] confidence in the nuclear weapons systems and their operational effectiveness,” auditors said in a report published last week.

“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

vox_mundi

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1092
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 277
  • Likes Given: 84
Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1241 on: August 15, 2019, 09:58:06 PM »
From: U.S. Nuclear Reactor Development Tests - Dose Reconstruction Project

https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/ocas/pdfs/tbd/nts2-r1-p1.pdf

Document No. ORAUT-TKBS-0008-2 pg 64-75

... June 26, 1968: PHOEBUS-2A, the most powerful nuclear rocket reactor ever built, ran for 12.5 min above 4,000 MW. The duration of the test was determined by the available coolant supply. Designed for 5,000 MW, the test was limited to 80% of full power because the aluminum segments of the pressure vessel clamp band overheated prematurely.



March 1968: The XE PRIME test, the first down-firing prototype nuclear rocket engine, successfully operated at 1,100 MW. The reactor operated at various power levels for a total of 115 min that included 28 restarts. This test series was a significant milestone in the nuclear rocket program and demonstrated the feasibility of the NERVA concept. In this year, the production of the Saturn V chemical rocket was suspended. It would have been the prime launch vehicle for NERVA.

...

B.5.1 pg 75

External exposures were primarily due to the decay of fission products. The reactors were operated remotely. Because of the distance between the operating reactors and personnel, external exposures during tests were, at most, a few millirem. Following the tests, the reactors were returned to heavily shielded cells by rail. Usually several hours to several days elapsed between reactor operation and the need for personnel to enter the cells for maintenance. However, even then the dose rates could have been several roentgen per hour. This required that the work be performed very rapidly with short residence times, often as little as 30 s. There were also exposures to H-8 plume-tracking teams, although they were generally less than those for hands-on work with the reactors.

External Exposure

Conventional dosimetry was used for monitoring the external fields and exposures. These included the survey instruments and film dosimeters employed by REECo, LASL, and LRL at that time. Standard film dosimeters and PICs were used for personnel monitoring. Section 6 of the NTS site profile contains more detail on the external dosimetry used at the NTS.

B.5.2

The primary source of internal exposure was the fission products released during reactor operation. Table B-1 lists the radionuclides identified in the effluent clouds during reactor operation (DOE 1995a). Several of the tests released radioactive effluent of sufficient magnitude that it could be detected off the site (DOE 1995a). Table B-2 summarizes these releases.

Table B-2. Summary of tests of nuclear-powered rocket and ramjet engines which generated radioactive effluent detected off the site (DOE 1995a).

Test name       Date        Time of day (PST) Integrated power (MW-s) Release curies
PHOEBUS 1B   02/23/67  1400-1430           2,600,000                       240,000
PHOEBUS 2A   06/26/68  1137-1209           4,500,000                         51,000

... Special monitoring instruments attached to criticality alarms were used to detect possible inadvertent critical assembly of fissionable material, if requested. Trained emergency radiation monitoring personnel were standing by for emergency support.

-------------------------

Nuclear-Powered Cruise Missiles Are a Terrible Idea. Russia’s Test Explosion Shows Why
https://www.defenseone.com/technology/2019/08/nuclear-powered-cruise-missiles-are-terrible-idea-russias-test-explosion-shows-why/159189/?oref=d-topstory

... In the late 50's Washington was already beginning to cool to the idea of a nuclear-powered cruise missile. The biggest reason: the missile’s unshielded nuclear reactor would spew radiation along its flight path, potentially irradiating its own ground crew and everyone else between the launch pad and the target.

Anticipating this, Merkle downplayed the danger in his initial 1959 report, using language that sounds ripped directly from Dr. Strangelove. “One problem that bothers the design of reactors to be used near people is the necessity of confining all the fission products to the reactor fuel element,” he wrote. “A typical mission might produce some-what less than 100 grams of fission product. Of these it might be expected that some large percentage would naturally remain in fuel elements…Consequently the fission activity introduced locally into the atmosphere is minute compared with even the most minute atomic weapon.”

Edwin Lyman, senior scientist and acting director of the nuclear safety project at the Union of Concerned Scientists, offers some perspective. “I suppose that at a time when the nuclear weapon states were still engaged in atmospheric testing, there wasn’t a whole lot of concerns about releasing additional radioactivity into the environment. Merkle’s cavalier attitude seems in tune with the era. But such a system should be considered completely unacceptable today,” Lyman told Defense One in an email.

One thing is that to characterize radiation releases in terms of ‘grams’ is misleading. Chernobyl released only a few hundred grams of iodine-131 yet it resulted in thousands of thyroid cancers among children.” He noted that the Pluto tests ejected not only radioactive gases but far more dangerous radioactive particle matter as well.

... Added Lyman, “if the missile was shot down, the fuel would overheat and you’d have a 500-thermal-megawatt reactor meltdown — about one-sixth the size of a large power reactor — but without any containment. Also, the lack of radiation shielding would make it difficult, if not impossible, for emergency responders to approach it.”

That’s similar to the problem Russia is grappling with right now.
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

DrTskoul

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1402
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 174
  • Likes Given: 59
Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1242 on: August 15, 2019, 10:05:13 PM »
Wow,  thanks VOX... all the media,  mainstream and otherwise suck, the data are in front of them!!! Neat details !!

TerryM

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 4745
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 181
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1243 on: August 15, 2019, 10:46:37 PM »
Wow,  thanks VOX... all the media,  mainstream and otherwise suck, the data are in front of them!!! Neat details !!
Ramen!
Terry

petm

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 572
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 248
  • Likes Given: 21
Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1244 on: August 15, 2019, 11:37:44 PM »
MSM is too busy broadcasting Trumps moronic tweets to do any real journalism.

Tor Bejnar

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 2904
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 249
  • Likes Given: 145
Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1245 on: August 16, 2019, 07:03:07 PM »
What do you do when you are glad someone (ahem, Vox) found and posted some information but you don't 'like' the information at all?  If someone saw my "Like" associated with that post, a wrong impression might be had!  :o  :'(
Arctic ice is healthy for children and other living things.