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blumenkraft

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Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1250 on: August 19, 2019, 06:27:26 PM »
Zaphod Beeblebrox, I presume  ;)

84 likes given, which is double of 42. Think about that, Zaphod Beeblebrox. :)
“I’m an introvert. I’m just different that’s all. I’m so sorry. I don’t have a gun. I don’t do that stuff... All I was trying to do was to become better. I’ll do it... You all are phenomenal. You are beautiful. And I love you. Try to forgive me. I’m sorry.”

Elijah McClain

TerryM

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Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1251 on: August 19, 2019, 07:38:25 PM »
<snipped>
---------------------------

America Needs a “AI Dead Hand”
https://warontherocks.com/2019/08/america-needs-a-dead-hand/


Rational? Rational?

.... To maintain the deterrent value of America’s strategic nuclear forces, the United States may need to develop something that might seem unfathomable — an automated strategic response system based on artificial intelligence.

<snipped>


Einstein's definition of insanity needs an update. Now


Nothing could be further from sanity than an automatic suicide weapon aimed at the world.

Anyone who considers such a project should be left in a padded cell with his eyes taped open watching "Doctor Strangelove" repeated endlessly.


Terry

vox_mundi

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Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1252 on: August 19, 2019, 07:53:12 PM »
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

philopek

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Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1253 on: August 19, 2019, 07:54:06 PM »
<snipped>
---------------------------

America Needs a “AI Dead Hand”
https://warontherocks.com/2019/08/america-needs-a-dead-hand/


Rational? Rational?

.... To maintain the deterrent value of America’s strategic nuclear forces, the United States may need to develop something that might seem unfathomable — an automated strategic response system based on artificial intelligence.

<snipped>


Einstein's definition of insanity needs an update. Now


Nothing could be further from sanity than an automatic suicide weapon aimed at the world.

Anyone who considers such a project should be left in a padded cell with his eyes taped open watching "Doctor Strangelove" repeated endlessly.


Terry

I'm sure you know why I love each year i get older and wouldn't want to go back one single year.

If there would be a certain percentage of "sane" people. let's say above the critical mass of 27/28% of the population, it would be worth to fight to increase the number to something above 2/3 and control the remainder.

But since the current percentage is <5% and at least half of those are simply to smart to
fight an already lost fight, that's the group I started to join, a long term process for a former fighter haha...

In short terms, you're so right but I'm not surprised that humankind is heading that way.

As we know, animals with something like the DK effect are paying with their lives or ousted from the group, hence won't be able to procreate in masses.

I think the part in bold letters hints at the only solution for several problems at the same time.

When i was very young and a bit pissed of that we needed a license of some kind for more and more things that were free before, I came up saying as a joke, that sooner or later we shall need a "walking license" as well as a license to procreate. Now, 60 years later i think the later would be a good thing, hence it's one of the few that hasn't come true.

Whenever I discuss this with people who have many children and are so proud, the more the prouder, I ask them to kindly consider the ranking in number of offspring amon all species on planet earth and then, to make sure they understand, among humans.

After giving them a few seconds to ponder over the "problem" on simply has to ask them to which group with which average birth rate they want to belong ;) ;)


TerryM

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Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1254 on: August 19, 2019, 08:06:38 PM »

^^

Elephants Rule - but only because we ate all the Mammoths & their Mastodonic brethren.


I've always felt as though the prolific breeders that had very short life times must represent a much higher level of evolution than ourselves.


It takes us a century to breed half a dozen generations. A fruit fly might do that in a week.
Terry

Sam

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Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1255 on: August 19, 2019, 08:47:36 PM »
A few things.

First - thank you to all those who posted about the nuclear rocket and nuclear cruise missile tests. There were a few other programs you missed, but you captured the most important ones.

I may have missed it, but I don’t recall seeing the KIWI-TNT listed, or a photo of the explosion. It is the most directly applicable to the event in Russia. The KIWI programs tested naked nuclear rocket engines at Test areas at the Nevada Test Site. During firing at Test Area C radiation levels on the test pad reached 2.5 million rads per second (yes - second).  10 R/hr hot particles were detected 10 miles away.

KIWI-TNT was the last test in the series. It involved snapping the reactor to full power and ejecting its control rod from the reactor. The result was a low yield nuclear detonation of the reactor. The winds shifted and radioactive debris was wafted over Los Angeles. And yes Martha - it was a nuclear detonation of a nuclear reactor. So you can put away the myth that that is impossible.

The rad fields from a nuclear cruise missile like the Pluto project were found to be so high that they created a five mile wide kill swath under the path of the missile. A nuclear warhead was entirely unnecessary. All that was needed was to fly the missile back and forth over an adversaries terrain. If they shoot it down the resulting core release is the equivalent of a small Chernobyl.

The worst of the reactors tested was the largest at 8,000 MW thermal. During test firing 30% of the core fuel was eroded and “lost” to the exhaust.

One of the intents of the programs was to develop  nuclear missiles to support a 10,000 missile ICBM program. Just imagine the launch of 10,000 naked nuclear reactor based rockets. Who needs warheads?

The list of reactors involved should be expanded to include the efforts at developing nuclear aircraft at the Idaho National Lab.

These types of weapons should be barred from development and consideration as in humane indiscriminate and barbaric weapons of mass destruction. The leadership of any nation developing such weapons should under terms of such an international agreement be hauled before and international tribunal. And upon conviction of even sponsoring work to develop such devices, all those involved should be either imprisoned for life or be executed as an ongoing danger to all of humanity.

Sam
 

KiwiGriff

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Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1256 on: August 19, 2019, 09:42:55 PM »
Kiwi TNT has been referenced on this thread Sam.
Reply #1213
If you look you will find the fall out report from the explosion.

Sam

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Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1257 on: August 19, 2019, 10:16:30 PM »
Kiwi TNT has been referenced on this thread Sam.
Reply #1213
If you look you will find the fall out report from the explosion.

Excellent. Thank you!

Sam

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Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1258 on: August 19, 2019, 10:34:26 PM »
And here is what the final moments of KIWI-TNT looked like.

http://www.abomb1.org/images/LANL/KIWI.jpg

Sam

vox_mundi

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Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1259 on: August 19, 2019, 10:39:42 PM »
Russian Incident Fallout plume:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1163094836569882625

Skyfall: Radioactive cloud over Iran and Pakistan Reported 
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/skyfall-radioactive-cloud-over-iran-and-pakistan-reported.631857/


Radioactive plume from the 8th August 2019 Russian Nyonoska explosion 
« Last Edit: August 19, 2019, 11:52:02 PM by vox_mundi »
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

oren

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Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1260 on: August 19, 2019, 11:39:05 PM »
If someone saw my "Like" associated with that post, a wrong impression might be had!  :o  :'(

As far as i'm aware off, it's not visible for users which exact posts you liked. You need to hack the forum for that. I don't think someone would do this only to see who liked who (... but you never know i guess...).
Under profile - show posts you can also see the user's liked posts and likes given to others.

TerryM

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Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1261 on: August 19, 2019, 11:46:24 PM »
And here is what the final moments of KIWI-TNT looked like.

http://www.abomb1.org/images/LANL/KIWI.jpg

Sam


Were you with the EPA in Nevada back in those days?
You might have known my wife.
Terry

vox_mundi

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Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1262 on: August 20, 2019, 02:04:26 PM »
Four Radiation Monitoring Stations Go Silent; Russia Tells Nuclear Watchdog: Radiation From Blast Is ‘None of Your Business’
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/more-russian-nuclear-monitoring-stations-went-silent-days-after-blast-test-ban-officials-says-11566232680
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/08/19/europe/russia-nuclear-explosion-radiation-intl/index.html.

Russia has told the Vienna-based Comprehensive Nuclear-Test-Ban Treaty Organization that the nuclear-reactor explosion at a White Sea missile test site in early August is none of their business.

The news came as two additional Russian monitoring stations designed to warn about nuclear radiation threats have gone silent after the mysterious Aug. 8 blast at the site this month, according to The Wall Street Journal. Four monitoring stations are now down, which is alarming experts who suspect Russia is attempting to cover up what really happened and keep details about the weapon being tested under wraps.

The two Russian radionuclide stations, called Dubna and Kirov, stopped transmitting data within two days of the explosion, the organization said. Two additional stations -- in Bilibino and Zalesovo -- went silent on August 13, a senior CTBTO official said.

 “Experts continue to reach out to our collaborators in Russia to resume operations as expediently as possible,” Lassina Zerbo, executive director of the Comprehensive Nuclear Test Ban Organization, told the Journal.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2019, 02:13:51 PM by vox_mundi »
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

blumenkraft

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Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1263 on: August 20, 2019, 04:52:58 PM »
Under profile - show posts you can also see the user's liked posts and likes given to others.

Oh, thanks for the hint. That is well hidden. ;)
“I’m an introvert. I’m just different that’s all. I’m so sorry. I don’t have a gun. I don’t do that stuff... All I was trying to do was to become better. I’ll do it... You all are phenomenal. You are beautiful. And I love you. Try to forgive me. I’m sorry.”

Elijah McClain

vox_mundi

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Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1264 on: August 20, 2019, 05:47:15 PM »
Looks like two of four Russia stations that were down are back on line...
https://twitter.com/barbarastarrcnn/status/1163779056137048064
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

vox_mundi

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Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1265 on: August 27, 2019, 05:13:28 PM »
Russia Changes Position On Radiation Leaks Again Weeks After Nuclear Missile Explosion
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/29578/russia-changes-position-on-radiation-leaks-again-weeks-after-nuclear-missile-explosion

Russia's state environmental monitoring agency has acknowledged the presence of four radioactive substances in Severodvinsk, a city less than 20 miles from the site of a still very mysterious explosion during the test of an unspecified nuclear-powered missile. The new details continue to suggest the incident was related to the development of the nuclear-powered cruise missile Burevestnik, but they also raise further questions about how transparent the Kremlin is being about the scale of the accident that killed at least seven people.

Personnel from the Federal Service for Hydrometeorology and Environmental Monitoring of Russia, better known by its Russian acronym Roshydromet, took water samples from areas near Severodvinsk between Aug. 10 and Aug. 23, 2019, and found traces of the radionuclides strontium-91, barium-139, barium-140, and lanthanum-140, according to a statement. These substances experience fast radioactive decay and the press release indicated that the brief spike in ambient background radiation that Severodvinsk authorities reported after the missile test accident was attributable to inert gasses released as a result.

"These specified radionuclides rule out, to some extent, the possibility of a radioisotope thermoelectric generator (RTG)," Andrei Zolotkov, a Russian chemist with extensive experience with nuclear reactors from 35 years of working on the country's nuclear icebreaker fleets, told The Guardian. "Usually, an RTG uses just one radionuclide, and during its decay, and it cannot produce these kinds of isotopes."

Strontium-91, barium-139, barium-140, and lanthanum-140 are relatively uncommon, but could come from the operation of a nuclear reactor using a traditional nuclear fuel source, such as uranium-235. However, these types of fission reactions typically produce cesium-137 and iodine-131, which the Russian government says it has not yet seen in elevated levels.

Zolotkov told The Guardian that the new disclosure from Roshydromet would mean that the missile contained some kind of novel reactor design or that the Kremlin is still not providing a full accounting of the situation.

At the same time, there has already been evidence that the Russians are at least trying to heavily control the flow of information surrounding the accident, if they're not looking to cover it up entirely. There had previously been indications that the Kremlin was deliberately shutting down environmental monitoring stations that could collect further data regarding radiation leakages.

One of the doctors who treated individuals injured in the accident reportedly ended up with cesium-137 in his system, as well. Russian authorities posited that this individual had become contaminated after eating "Fukushima crabs," a reference to seafood that might have become contaminated after the near-meltdown at the Fukushima Daini nuclear powerplant in Japan in 2011 following the catastrophic Tōhoku earthquake and tsunami.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/aug/25/russian-officials-blame-food-for-traces-of-radiation-in-doctor-treating-blast-victims

Before that, there had been unconfirmed reports of significant cesium-137 contamination at the Arkhangelsk Regional Clinical Hospital, after doctors and other staff treated patients from the accident site without receiving any warning about possible radiation exposure.
960 907

A purported picture of the two barges involved in the nuclear-powered missile test, including the heavily damaged one at left.

-----------------------

Where's the strontium-90, cesium-137, iodine-131

------------------------

In other news this week, some Ukrainians connected a nuclear plant to the internet so they could illegally mine cryptocurrency, prompting a raid by the Secret Service last month, ZDNet reported Monday. The episode is being investigated “as a potential breach of state secrets due to the classification of nuclear power plants as critical infrastructure.”
Location: the South Ukraine Nuclear Power Plant, near Yuzhnoukrainsk, in southern Ukraine.
Seized by investigators: “two metal cases containing basic computer parts, but with additional power supplies, coolers, and video cards. According to court documents, one case held six Radeon RX 470 GPU video cards, and the second five.”
If it sounds like you’ve read this story before, similar episodes played out three separate times in early 2018, ZDNet writes. What happened then: “In February 2018, Russian authorities arrested engineers from the Russian Nuclear Center for using the agency’s supercomputer to mine cryptocurrency. A month later, Australian officials began an investigation into a similar case at the Bureau of Meteorology, where employees used work computers to mine cryptocurrency. A month after that, in April 2018, an employee at the Romanian National Research Institute for Nuclear Physics and Engineering was also caught mining cryptocurrency at work.”
« Last Edit: August 27, 2019, 05:27:58 PM by vox_mundi »
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

blumenkraft

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Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1266 on: August 28, 2019, 10:50:18 PM »
Ah, the picture is complete. The Russians tried to cover up their accident because they don't want anyone to know how shitty their technology is. They actually try to sell nuclear technology to Africa. Good luck with that. A once great nation clutching at any straw at the cost of the poorest of the poor... You can't make this up.

Quote
Russia is attempting to gain influence in Africa and earn billions of pounds by selling developing nations nuclear technology that critics say is unsuitable and unlikely to benefit the continent’s poorest people.

Link >> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/aug/28/russia-pushing-unsuitable-nuclear-power-in-africa-critics-claim
“I’m an introvert. I’m just different that’s all. I’m so sorry. I don’t have a gun. I don’t do that stuff... All I was trying to do was to become better. I’ll do it... You all are phenomenal. You are beautiful. And I love you. Try to forgive me. I’m sorry.”

Elijah McClain

vox_mundi

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Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1267 on: August 30, 2019, 06:10:36 PM »
Mystery Russia Explosion Reportedly Happened During Mission to Recover Nuclear-Powered Missile from Ocean
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/29/intel-says-russian-explosion-was-not-from-nuclear-powered-missile-test.html
https://gizmodo.com/mystery-russia-explosion-reportedly-happened-during-mis-1837739881

U.S. intelligence has reportedly determined that a mysterious blast that occurred on Russia’s northern coast earlier this month took place during a mission to reclaim a nuclear-powered missile.

Last week Russia signaled that it had no interest in shedding light on the August 8 explosion that killed at least five people. Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov told the Comprehensive Nuclear-Test-Ban Treaty Organization, which monitors radiation globally, that Russia would not be sharing any data about the incident.

The Russian defense ministry originally said the fatal explosion occurred during the testing of a liquid-propulsion system, but reports that a nearby city detected a rise in radiation levels clashed with the nation’s suggestion that it wasn’t a nuclear blast

CNBC reported on Thursday that U.S. intel has learned that the explosion also didn’t happen during a test. A person with direct knowledge of the U.S. intelligence reportedly told CNBC, “this was not a new launch of the weapon, instead it was a recovery mission to salvage a lost missile from a previous test.”

Another anonymous source told CNBC that an explosion that happened on one of the vessels used in the recovery mission “caused a reaction in the missile’s nuclear core which lead to the radiation leak.”
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

bligh8

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Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1268 on: August 31, 2019, 06:38:10 PM »
Russia to launch floating nuclear reactor


selected quotes from within the article.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/innovation/russia-to-launch-floating-nuclear-reactor-1.3993156

Russia to launch floating nuclear reactor
Rosatom insists 2-reactor unit is safe as tests are planned in the Arctic
Wed, Aug 21, 2019, 17:48


 
The vessel is a floating nuclear reactor, a portable power plant designed to supply electricity to areas disconnected from the grid, with an eye on export opportunities in developing countries
 
On Friday, three tugs will tow the Akademik Lomonosov barge out of Murmansk to begin a 5,000km voyage to a remote port on the other side of Russia’s Arctic coast, and in the process send waves through the nuclear energy sector.

The vessel is a floating nuclear reactor, a portable power plant designed to supply electricity to areas disconnected from the grid, and envisaged by Russia’s state nuclear corporation Rosatom as the future of small-scale nuclear power with an eye on export opportunities in developing countries.

But the two-reactor Lomonosov, which took a decade to design and build, has sparked safety fears and concerns over the environmental impact of any mishap, amid concern over a botched nuclear missile test this month at a military site close to Murmansk that released a radiation spike in a nearby city.

Rosatom insists the unit is safe, and “virtually unsinkable” in case of natural disasters. The plant will also be guarded by the Russian guard, Moscow’s internal military force.
“Our unit has other tasks, other requirements in terms of security. It has to correspond with double standards - for a nuclear plant and a vessel,” said Dmitry Alexeenko, deputy head of Rosatom’s department overseeing its construction.

The unit is the first in a programme designed to provide power to remote communities where building a conventional nuclear power plant would be excessive. The Akademik Lomonosov will sail to the Chukotka region, deep in Russia’s far east, where miners are seeking to exploit gold and copper reserves....more within the article

A floating nuclear power plant in the Arctic....What could go wrong?

kassy

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Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1269 on: August 31, 2019, 07:15:37 PM »
Tiny oil spill though...
Þetta minnismerki er til vitnis um að við vitum hvað er að gerast og hvað þarf að gera. Aðeins þú veist hvort við gerðum eitthvað.

vox_mundi

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Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1270 on: September 04, 2019, 05:18:47 PM »
Quote from: kassy
... Tiny oil spill though

Monty Python: Always Look On the Bright Side of Life ...



----------------------------------

This Lithuanian City Played Host to Filming For HBO's 'Chernobyl.' It's Now Preparing For Its Own Nuclear Radiation Leak
https://time.com/5668326/vilnius-lithuania-chernobyl-nuclear-meltdown-drill/


The Lithuanian capital is on edge over the imminent opening of a nuclear-power facility just 40 kilometers (25 miles) away in Belarus. Following a string of incidents during construction — and attempts to conceal them — many deem the Russian-built Astravets plant unsafe.

The government is buying 900,000 euros ($1 million) of iodine tablets in the event of a radiation leak, which could affect a third of Lithuania’s 2.8 million population. Nationwide drills will be held to test readiness should the unthinkable happen.

“Everything you saw on the Chernobyl TV series will be here: the sirens, the rescuers and the helicopters,” said Edgaras Geda, head of Civil Protection Board, which is organizing the exercises. “People still remember Chernobyl. Many of our relatives, including my uncles, were sent to the rescue missions so we have first-hand experience. We’re not going to guess whether an accident could happen, we’re getting ready for one.”

Astravets’s safety record is the concern. Since construction began in 2012, there have been at least three deaths. Lithuania is worried about transparency, with some incidents initially going undisclosed, including when the 330-ton casing for the plant’s atomic core slipped from a crane and plunged to the ground.

The 2,400-megawatt facility’s two reactors are being built by the export arm of Russia’s state-run Rosatom Corp., which also has projects in Turkey, China and Finland. It’s the same company that oversaw Russia’s failed nuclear-missile test on Aug. 8. Five scientists were killed in that incident. Radiation levels spiked in the White Sea near the Arctic Circle.

Belarus, which plans to deliver the first fuel to Astravets by Oct. 1, denies safety problems. Even so, it ignored international recommendations after the 2011 Fukushima disaster to stop building nuclear plants within 100 kilometers of major cities.

For now, Lithuania is monitoring radiation along the Belarus border and in the river that passes Astravets before reaching Vilnius. A leak could contaminate drinking water for the city’s 540,000 residents.
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

blumenkraft

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Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1271 on: September 04, 2019, 05:27:15 PM »
Damn, did they deliberately made it look like Chernobyl?  :o ;D
“I’m an introvert. I’m just different that’s all. I’m so sorry. I don’t have a gun. I don’t do that stuff... All I was trying to do was to become better. I’ll do it... You all are phenomenal. You are beautiful. And I love you. Try to forgive me. I’m sorry.”

Elijah McClain

Tom_Mazanec

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Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1272 on: September 04, 2019, 08:23:19 PM »
Ohio nuclear dispute spurs claim that China is 'invading' U.S. grid
https://www.post-gazette.com/business/powersource/2019/08/31/Ohio-nuclear-dispute-China-U-S-grid-FirstEnergy-Solutions-Corp/stories/201908310036
Quote
The voice on the television ad sounds ominous. “The Chinese government is quietly invading our American electric grid,” it says. “Now they’re coming for our energy jobs.”

As the narrator speaks, images of marching soldiers and President Xi Jinping flash across the screen. It ends with a warning: “Don’t sign the petition allowing China to control Ohio’s power.”
Hey, I just live here  ;D
SHARKS (CROSSED OUT) MONGEESE (SIC) WITH FRICKIN LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

vox_mundi

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Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1273 on: September 09, 2019, 04:51:11 AM »
Floating Nuclear Power Plant Enters East Siberian Sea, Emergency Services in Pevek Make a Final Check
https://thebarentsobserver.com/en/arctic-industry-and-energy/2019/09/floating-nuclear-power-plant-enters-east-siberian-sea-emergency

The «Akademik Lomonosov» on the 6th September passed the Sannikov Strait south of the New Siberian Islands and made it into the East Siberian Sea. The floating installation now has only about 1 days left of its extensive voyage across the Northern Sea Route.

According to the Northern Sea Route Administration, the installation and its accompanying vessels are due to arrive in Pevek on the 9th of September.

Towed by icebreaker «Dikson» and accompanied by support ships «Yasnyy» and «Kapitan Martyshkin», the floating power plant had course for the Barents Sea and subsequently made it through the Kara Sea and Laptev Sea.

The voyage from Murmansk to Pevek is about 4,700 km long.



... According to the ministry, a special fire- and rescue department is under construction on site. When completed, the unit can ultimately serve as base for a larger Arctic rescue center.

On site are also a large number of representatives of the nuclear power company Rosatom that will be the ones that run the plant.

Local authorities previously made clear that they need to built 320 new apartments and that a major facelift of local infrastructure is in the works.

Rosgvardia, the Russian National Guard, has been commissioned to protect the power plant and its surroundings.

Rosgvardia has decided to outsource the protection of the «Akademik Lomonosov» to what it calls "sub-units of non-governmental security." ??

... Environmental organization Greenpeace has described the project as a “nuclear Titanic” or a “Chernobyl on ice”.

We all know how this is going to go down ...

... with a riff from Blue Oyster Cult

« Last Edit: September 09, 2019, 05:03:26 AM by vox_mundi »
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vox_mundi

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Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1274 on: September 09, 2019, 08:48:15 PM »
Russian Nuclear Blast Debris Washes Up on Arkhangelsk Beach, Still Emitting Radiation
https://bellona.org/news/nuclear-issues/2019-09-irradiated-debris-from-russias-mystery-explosion-washes-up-on-arkhangelsk-beach-reports-say



On Monday, journalists in the Arkhangelsk region reported that the two barges had turned up on a local beach, where they have laid for the weeks since the apparent missile accident, emitting radioactivity.

Radiation measurements as high as eight times normal background levels were taken on August 31 from a distance of 150 meters, while earlier tests soon after the barges arrived peaked as high as 38 times normal, the reporters said in a video released on local television. Those levels are still well short of life threatening, but measurements closer to the barges haven’t been made.

... One of the platforms, reported RFE/RL, supports a damaged crane and a ladder for scuba divers, along with what appears to be a container for radioactive materials. This would lend credence to US intelligence reports of an underwater mission to recover a nuclear powered missile.

The presence of the platfroms, said the agency, also matches up with satellite images taken of the White Sea accident in its immediate aftermath.

Radiation readings taken by the journalists on Saturday, August 31 measured from 70 to 186 microroentgen per hour. Earlier measurements in August peaked at 750 microroentgen per hour. Normal local background levels in the area are closer to 20 microroentgen per hour, Vice News quoted Greenpeace as saying.



One was towed there on August 9, the day after the blast. The other arrived five days after, according to villagers who were quoted by the Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty news agency.

What remains unknown is why – or, indeed, if ­– Russian authorities would have abandoned radioactive debris from a high-profile accident, which has fueled speculation abroad and radiation fears at home.

The Soviet Navy had a long history of abandoning nuclear waste, nuclear reactors, and even entire nuclear submarines, at sea.
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

vox_mundi

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Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1275 on: September 10, 2019, 10:12:45 AM »
Fukushima: Japan Will have to Dump Radioactive Water Into Pacific, Minister Says
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/sep/10/fukushima-japan-will-have-to-dump-radioactive-water-into-pacific-minister-says

The operator of the ruined Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant will have to dump huge quantities of contaminated water from the site directly into the Pacific Ocean, Japan’s environment minister has said – a move that would enrage local fishermen.

More than 1 million tonnes of contaminated water has accumulated at the plant since it was struck by a tsunami in March 2011, triggering a triple meltdown that forced the evacuation of tens of thousands of residents.

... “The only option will be to drain it into the sea and dilute it,” Yoshiaki Harada told a news briefing in Tokyo on Tuesday. ... Other options include vaporising the liquid or storing it on land for an extended period.

... Any decision to dispose of the waste water into the sea would anger local fishermen, who have spent the past eight years rebuilding their industry.

Nearby South Korea has also voiced concern over the impact it would have on the reputation of its own seafood.

... The government spent 34.5bn yen (£260m) to build a frozen underground wall to prevent groundwater reaching the three damaged reactor buildings. The wall, however, has succeeded only in reducing the flow of groundwater from about 500 tonnes a day to about 100 tonnes a day.

Japan has come under renewed pressure to address the contaminated water problem before Tokyo hosts the Olympics and Paralympics next summer.

Six years ago during the city’s bid for the games, the prime minister, Shinzo Abe, assured the international community that the situation was “under control”.

“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

NevB

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Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1276 on: September 10, 2019, 03:46:39 PM »
Fukushima: Japan Will have to Dump Radioactive Water Into Pacific, Minister Says

This was inevitable and is only the beginning as they simply don't have any other choice. because 500T day of water comes in from the hills and 100 tons passes the ice wall gets contaminated and has to be stored. The decontamination technology for this that was promised was just never going to work. This just won't stop for decades or probably hundreds or even thousands of years.

The ice wall needs power to stay frozen, last report I could find was a few years after the disaster and their were still > 5000 people onsite each day while they were churning over so many workers (exceeded their exposure limits) that they couldn't keep up.

Their are so many questions I haven't seen answered , how much does this cost, who pays, how could any reactor possibly anywhere cover the insurance for an event like this, how much power is required to maintain the frozen wall?

Then what's the future outlook, certainly low level contamination of the pacific for decades or more what else is likely?
What happens to the cores as their is no known technology to deal with these how long do they need to be contained?

I've looked for answers and haven't found anything, perhaps some one here could add something?

bluice

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Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1277 on: September 10, 2019, 05:47:46 PM »
Ah, the picture is complete. The Russians tried to cover up their accident because they don't want anyone to know how shitty their technology is. They actually try to sell nuclear technology to Africa. Good luck with that. A once great nation clutching at any straw at the cost of the poorest of the poor... You can't make this up.

Quote
Russia is attempting to gain influence in Africa and earn billions of pounds by selling developing nations nuclear technology that critics say is unsuitable and unlikely to benefit the continent’s poorest people.

Link >> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/aug/28/russia-pushing-unsuitable-nuclear-power-in-africa-critics-claim
Russian technological pride rests on two pillars: weapons and nuclear. Sadly for them, this accident showed the poor quality of them both.

I expect the insane doomsday missile project to fail just as their other big ticket weapons projects such as Pak-Fa stealth fighter and Armata tank projects have failed.

vox_mundi

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Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1278 on: September 10, 2019, 06:51:29 PM »
French Nuclear Giant EDF Warns of Substandard Reactor Parts
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-09-10/edf-flags-issues-in-reactor-parts-in-blow-to-nuclear-industry

Electricite de France SA, which dominates the nation’s power production, said some of its reactors may contain substandard components. The utility’s shares tumbled.

Framatome, a French supplier of atomic equipment taken over by EDF and some partners almost two years ago, has informed the utility “of a deviation from technical standards governing the manufacture of nuclear-reactor components,” Paris-based EDF said in a statement on Tuesday. “It concerns in-service components as well as new components which have not yet been installed on any sites.”

EDF didn’t say if any of the country’s 58 reactors will have to be halted, but electricity prices surged in anticipation of shutdowns. The announcement is another blow to the nuclear industry in France, which is more dependent on atomic energy than any other nation.

EDF’s repeated problems with the quality of reactor components, which include faulty welds in its flagship Flamanville project and anomalies in manufacturing records at the Creusot forge, add to growing global concerns about the suitability of nuclear energy as an alternative to polluting fossil-fuel plants. Beyond the longstanding questions about reactor safety after the Chernobyl and Fukushima accidents, there are doubts about its economic viability as the cost of renewable energy plunges.

“Post-Fukushima, safety rules are so stringent that unplanned halts are becoming more and more frequent,” said Tancrede Fulop, an analyst at Morningstar. “That is undermining the nuclear case for a low-cost, baseload production of low-carbon electricity.”

Three years ago, EDF had to check almost a third of its nuclear reactors after uncovering manufacturing problems in key components made by Framatome, then called Areva, at the Creusot forge. That forced longer-than-planned maintenance outages, reducing the utility’s output. A new reactor under construction in Flamanville, western France, is also marred by construction delays.

The deviation in technical standards “concerns an excursion from temperature ranges in certain areas during manufacturing operations, more specifically involving detensioning heat treatment on some steam generator welds,” EDF said. It has alerted the French nuclear safety authority, and will provide additional information as checks progress, it said.

Framatome and EDF are making “very complex calculations” to find out if the deviation will have an impact on the “integrity” of the components, Calvet said.



------------------------------------

Quote from: blumenkraft
The Russians tried to cover up their accident because they don't want anyone to know how shitty their technology is. They actually try to sell nuclear technology to Africa. Good luck with that. A once great nation clutching at any straw at the cost of the poorest of the poor... You can't make this up.

Quote
Russia is attempting to gain influence in Africa and earn billions of pounds by selling developing nations nuclear technology that critics say is unsuitable and unlikely to benefit the continent’s poorest people.

Link >> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/aug/28/russia-pushing-unsuitable-nuclear-power-in-africa-critics-claim

“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

TerryM

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Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1279 on: September 10, 2019, 08:54:43 PM »
<snipped>
I expect the insane doomsday missile project to fail just as their other big ticket weapons projects such as Pak-Fa stealth fighter and Armata tank projects have failed.


Failed at what?
Are the S-200,S-400,S-500 also considered as exemplars of Big Ticket weapons projects that have failed?
Just curious
Terry

bluice

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Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1280 on: September 10, 2019, 11:01:49 PM »
Well they haven’t really been tried, have they?  Israelis strike Syrian airspace at will despite the Russian air defense systems positioned there.

Pak-fa and Armata never made it past the prototype stage and probably never will. Modern high tech weapons are ridiculously expensive and Russia lacks the economic muscle and technological know how.

Apologies for OT

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Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1281 on: September 11, 2019, 01:00:07 AM »
Well they haven’t really been tried, have they?  Israelis strike Syrian airspace at will despite the Russian air defense systems positioned there.

Pak-fa and Armata never made it past the prototype stage and probably never will. Modern high tech weapons are ridiculously expensive and Russia lacks the economic muscle and technological know how.

Apologies for OT

I see quite a bit of wishful thinking and whoever underestimated the Russians in the past paid with his life, position, existence or all of them.

This kind of arrogance or misinterpretation and underestimation bears great dangers because only who thinks he can win will launch a war and once a war is under way it's too late to pull back.

At least if they fight they win, only exception was Afghanistan and that's kind of logical. Further I'd say that the U.S of A lost every war or did not achieve their mid and long term goals after WWII.

Exceptions were a few small battles like Grenada etc.

For me the state of the U.S. is comparable with the Roman and other Empires in their last legs. Doomed in many ways.

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Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1282 on: September 16, 2019, 05:44:23 PM »
Environmental groups warn against push for nuclear power in Australia
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/sep/16/environmental-groups-warn-against-push-for-nuclear-power-in-australia
Quote
Environmental and civil society groups have warned the government nuclear power has “no role” in Australia as crossbench independents urge it to recognise climate change as a health issue.

On Monday submissions to the inquiry on nuclear power will close. A diverse group of stakeholders has called on the government to rule out changing the law to allow nuclear energy in Australia.
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Tom_Mazanec

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Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1283 on: September 21, 2019, 02:01:59 AM »
Fukushima nuclear disaster trial ends with acquittals of 3 executives
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/19/business/japan-tepco-fukushima-nuclear-acquitted.html
Quote
The verdict makes it likely that no one will be held criminally responsible for the 2011 meltdown in Japan, which caused damage that could linger for generations.

Three Mile Island Nuclear Power Plant's Shutdown Is Imminent
https://www.wesa.fm/post/three-mile-island-nuclear-power-plants-shutdown-imminent#stream/0
Quote
Exelon Corp. officials said the plant will stop producing electricity Friday, following through on a decision the Chicago-based energy giant made in May after it became clear that it would not get a financial rescue from Pennsylvania.
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vox_mundi

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Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1284 on: September 21, 2019, 08:32:55 PM »
Three Mile Island Has Powered Down
https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/energy/a29153257/three-mile-island-closes/

Economic conditions in 2019 do what a partial meltdown in 1979 could not.

- Three Mile Island Unit 1 has officially stopped producing electricity.

- The nuclear power plant is most associated with Unit 2, which suffered a partial meltdown in 1979. Unit 1 has provided power for over 800,000 homes and businesses since then, but was unable to compete with natural gas as a lone reactor.

- Because of the dangers of nuclear waste, a smaller number of employees will be working at the plant through 2060.
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

Ken Feldman

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Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1285 on: September 24, 2019, 06:35:47 PM »
The 2019 World Nuclear Industry Status Report is available.

https://www.worldnuclearreport.org/IMG/pdf/wnisr2019-lr.pdf

Here are a few excerpts from the key facts:

Quote
In 2018, nuclear power generation in the world increased by 2.4% of which 1.8% due to a 19% increase in China. Global nuclear power generation excluding China increased by 0.6% for the first time after decreasing three years in a row, but without making up for the decline since 2014.

Nine reactors started up in 2018 of which seven were in China and two in Russia.

Four units started up in the first half of 2019, of which two were in China.

The number of units under construction globally declined for the sixth year in a row, from 68 reactors at the end of 2013 to 46 by mid-2019, of which 10 are in China.

But…

Still no construction start of any commercial reactor in China since December 2016.

China will by far miss its Five-Year-Plan 2020 nuclear targets of 58 GW installed and 30 GW under construction.

China spent a record US$146 billion on renewables in 2017—more than half of the world’s total—and saw a decline to US$91 billion in 2018, but still close to twice the U.S., the second largest investor with US$48.5 billion.

Quote
Over the past decade, levelized cost estimates for utility-scale solar dropped by 88%, wind by 69%, while nuclear increased by 23%. Renewables now come in below the cost of coal and natural gas.

Quote
To protect the climate, we must abate the most carbon at the least cost and in the least time, so we must pay attention to carbon, cost, and time, not to carbon alone.

Non-Nuclear Options Save More Carbon Per Dollar. In many nuclear countries, new renewables can now compete economically with existing nuclear power plants. The closure of uneconomic reactors will not directly save CO2 emissions but can indirectly save more CO2 than closing a coal-fired plant, if the nuclear plant’s larger saved operating costs are reinvested in efficiency or cheap modern renewables that in turn displace more fossil-fueled generation.

Non-Nuclear Options Save More Carbon Per Year. While current nuclear programs are particularly slow, current renewables programs are particularly fast. New nuclear plants take 5–17 years longer to build than utility-scale solar or onshore wind power, so existing fossil-fueled plants emit far more CO2 while awaiting substitution by the nuclear option. Stabilizing the climate is urgent, nuclear power is slow.

Tom_Mazanec

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Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1286 on: September 24, 2019, 09:04:57 PM »
Cory Booker Says Any Serious Climate Plan Has to Include Nuclear Power
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2019/09/cory-booker-climate-change-nuclear-power/
Quote
Among the 2020 presidential candidates, Cory Booker stands out for his record of advocating for the people who bear the brunt of pollution and toxic waste. Before his presidential run, he traveled to Louisiana, North Carolina, and Alabama to inform a sweeping bill that codifies the federal government’s requirement to incorporate the interests of communities of color in environmental regulation. And as the mayor of Newark, Booker tackled the city’s lead water crisis and industrial pollution.
Booker is also one of the few presidential contenders to embrace nuclear energy openly—his $3 trillion plan to address the climate crisis includes $20 billion in research and development of nuclear technology. This is one major difference between Booker and his opponent Bernie Sanders, who has called nuclear power a “false solution” and actually phases it out in his climate plan.

With Three Mile Island Closed, Nuclear Advocates Shift Concern To PA’s Other Plants
https://www.wesa.fm/post/three-mile-island-closed-nuclear-advocates-shift-concern-pa-s-other-plants#stream/0
Quote
TMI was unique among Pennsylvania’s nuclear plants. It had just one reactor after its partial meltdown in 1979, helping make it less profitable.

But state Representative Tom Mehaffie, of Dauphin County, says with the energy market awash in cheaper natural gas, Pennsylvania’s other nuclear plants are in trouble too.

He faults many of his GOP colleagues for not supporting his bill to bail out TMI.

"The special interest of gas has put a lot of effort, time, and money into making sure that this bill did not pass, or some type of bill did not pass and succeed to keep this plant open,” Mehaffie said.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2019, 10:22:11 PM by Tom_Mazanec »
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vox_mundi

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Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1287 on: September 30, 2019, 03:58:48 AM »
Apparently, Russia's exploding nuclear missile was not a sufficient lesson...

NASA Wants to Send Nuclear Rockets to the Moon and Mars
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wired.com/story/nasa-wants-to-send-nuclear-rockets-to-the-moon-and-mars/amp

Space travel is dangerous enough without having to worry about a nuclear meltdown. But for future human missions to the moon and Mars, NASA believes such risks may be necessary.

... “Many space exploration problems require that high-density power be available at all times, and there is a class of such problems for which nuclear power is the preferred—if not the only— option,” Rex Geveden, a former NASA associate administrator and CEO of the power generation company BWX Technologies, told the National Space Council in August. Geveden’s sentiments were echoed by NASA Administrator Jim Bridenstine, who called nuclear propulsion a “game changer” and told Vice President Mike Pence that using fission reactors in space is “an amazing opportunity that the United States should take advantage of.”

... Congress earmarked $100 million in NASA’s budget for the development of nuclear propulsion technologies. And this year they got another boost when Congress added another $125 million for nuclear propulsion.

But before a nuclear rocket engine gets its first flight, NASA needs to overhaul its regulations for launching nuclear materials. In August, the White House issued a memo that tasked NASA with developing safety protocols for operating nuclear reactors in space.

Once they’re adopted by NASA, the stage will be set for the first flight of a nuclear engine as soon as 2024. This coincides with Trump’s deadline to return American astronauts to the moon; maybe this time they’ll be hitching a ride on a nuclear rocket.




https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/presidential-memorandum-launch-spacecraft-containing-space-nuclear-systems/
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

Sam

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Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1288 on: September 30, 2019, 01:17:42 PM »
Bad ideas never die. They come back again and again and again like invasive weeds. Lessons it seems are never learned. Dangers and risks identified, elucidated and detailed roll off or evaporate like water on a hot skillet.

And as ever, other uses, military uses seem always to lie just around the corner only slightly out of sight as well. The Russians (and likely the Chinese) have been working on trans-sonic nuclear powered cruise missiles. So of course, the US must as well. But how ever will we pay for them? And how might we get the public to not only go along, but support the work? I know. Let's say we're going to use the engines to drive a mission to Mars. That's the ticket. Woo hoo!

Never mind the radiation dose to the astronauts. That's science. The public can't do science. They'll never figure it out. Never mind that there are no upsides to these things. Just imagine how big a boom we can have? Yada yada yada. It's always the same, new again.

Sam

oren

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Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1289 on: September 30, 2019, 01:25:34 PM »
Terrible idea.

NeilT

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Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1290 on: September 30, 2019, 02:35:27 PM »
Well that is Humans Sam.  It doesn't mean that the tecbology is bad, just Humans.

You can be pretty sure that the second we develop the capability to move asteroids, someone will start to position them as the ultimate weapon..
Being right too soon is socially unacceptable.

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Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1291 on: September 30, 2019, 03:38:00 PM »
Never mind the radiation dose to the astronauts.

There are certainly many issues in using nuclear powered rockets, but protecting astronauts from radiation is actually one of the most important reasons to use them.

Using chemical rockets the travel from Earth to Mars takes at least 6 months and the astronauts will receice a substantial dose of stellar and cosmic radiation during that time. Using nuclear powered rockets might reduce the travel time to two months, reducing the radiation dose to one third.

Protecting the astronauts from the radiation of the nuclear reactor is probably quite similar to protecting the crew of a nuclear powered submarine.

SteveMDFP

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Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1292 on: September 30, 2019, 03:51:20 PM »
Never mind the radiation dose to the astronauts.

There are certainly many issues in using nuclear powered rockets, but protecting astronauts from radiation is actually one of the most important reasons to use them.

Using chemical rockets the travel from Earth to Mars takes at least 6 months and the astronauts will receice a substantial dose of stellar and cosmic radiation during that time. Using nuclear powered rockets might reduce the travel time to two months, reducing the radiation dose to one third.

Protecting the astronauts from the radiation of the nuclear reactor is probably quite similar to protecting the crew of a nuclear powered submarine.

It's a good point.  In truth, nuclear power in space is not a new thing.  All the probes that went beyond Mars used nuclear power sources.  Solar panels just don't work well enough at those distances from the sun.

Nuclear propulsion within the earth's atmosphere is a catastrophically bad idea, because of the high thrust/weight ratio needed.  In orbit and beyond, a much lower thrust/weight ratio works just fine, so shielding weight is not a problem.  And lower intensity thrust, like generating electricity to drive ion drives works fine.  This can avoid the very high temperatures that conventional nuclear reactors depend on.

Sam

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Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1293 on: September 30, 2019, 04:19:19 PM »
Shielding equals weight and inertia. Where ever the shielding material is acquired the problems remain the same. Once powered up the reactor becomes an immense hazard.

Nuclear is a solution in search of a problem. The issues of dose, shielding, weight and inertia are ever present and make the solution unusable. Beta emitting radioisotope thermoelectric generators not withstanding.

Submarines are a bad example. The weight of the reactor and shielding serves as needed ballast. That results in a wholly different calculus.

Sam

vox_mundi

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Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1294 on: September 30, 2019, 04:43:39 PM »
Also, they're talking about nuclear reactor based rockets in the article; not nuclear thermo-electric generators.

Quote
... While the concept of nuclear rocket engines is simple enough—the reactor brings hydrogen to blistering temperatures and the gas is expelled through a nozzle—designing reactors that could withstand their own heat is not. Earthbound fission reactors operate at around 600 degrees Fahrenheit; the reactors used in rocket engines must be cranked to more than 4,000 degrees F.

The Whitehouse safety memo suggests keeping accidents of < 5 rem to 1% of flights and > 25 rem to 1 in 10,000.

The same rules were used at Fukishima, Chernobyl, Three Mile Island, Sellafield, Mayak/ Kyshtym, SL-1, and others (not counting nuclear disasters at sea; like K-19: The Widowmaker).

So 1 out of 40 'safe' low temp reactors has a major accident. What will the safety record of 'ultra hot' reactors exhibit at the bleeding edge of technology?
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

vox_mundi

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Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1295 on: September 30, 2019, 05:44:32 PM »
Another reason not to use elements that spontaneously come apart and make you sick ...

-------------

Top Secret Chernobyl: The Nuclear Disaster through the Eyes of the Soviet Politburo, KGB, and U.S. Intelligence (... includes original documents)
https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/nunn-lugar-russia-programs/2019-08-15/top-secret-chernobyl-nuclear-disaster-through-eyes-soviet-politburo-kgb-us-intelligence 

Documents from the highest levels of the Soviet Union, including notes, protocols and diaries of Politburo sessions in the immediate aftermath of the Chernobyl nuclear disaster in 1986, detail a sequence of cover-up, revelation, shock, mobilization, individual bravery, and bureaucratic turf battles in the Soviet reaction, according to the “Top Secret Chernobyl” e-book published today by the National Security Archive.

Key sources include protocols of the Politburo Operational Group on Chernobyl that were published in Russian by the journalist and former Supreme Soviet deputy Alla Yaroshinskaya in 1992.  The posting today begins with Yaroshinskaya’s essay (written exclusively for this publication) reviewing the Chernobyl story and her own efforts dating back to 1986 to document and expose the lies and the secrecy that surrounded the disaster.

Also included are excerpts from the diary of Politburo member Vitaly Vorotnikov, notes on Politburo sessions by Anatoly Chernyaev, and excerpts from rare “official working copies” of Politburo sessions that were published in Russian by former Rosarchiv director Rudolf Pikhoia in 2000.  Today’s publication also contains declassified reactions from the U.S. State Department’s intelligence bureau, the CIA, and the National Security Council’s Jack Matlock, as well as reporting from the Ukrainian KGB.

... “Secret. Protocol No. 7. May 6, 1986. Present: members of the Politburo of the CC CPSU Comrades N.I. Ryzhkov, E.K. Ligachev, V.I. Vorotnikov, V.L. Chebrikov, the Secretary of the CC CPSU A.N. Yakovlev… (…) as of 09:00 hours on May 6th, the total number of the hospitalized amounted to 3,454 people…the number stricken with radiation sickness amounted to 367 people.” According to the protocols, the number of the sick is growing every day. The count is already in the thousands.

“Secret. Protocol No. 12. May 12, 1986. (…) There are 10,198 people under in-patient examination and treatment, of which 345 people have symptoms of radiation sickness.”

After more than ten thousand of the radiation-exposed turned up in hospital beds their general discharge suddenly began. It seems the worse the radiation spread, the healthier the Soviet people grew.

And here is the solution of sudden, miraculous ‘healing.’

“Secret. Protocol No. 9. May 8, 1986. (…) The Ministry of Health of the USSR approved new standards of permissible levels of exposure of the population to radioactive irradiation, surpassing the former by 10 times. In special cases, it is possible to increase these standards to levels exceeding the previous by 50 times. [Author’s Note- !]”


... The Kremlin went to great lengths to hide the scale of the radiation debacle. Not two months after the evacuation of people from the ‘black’ zone—as the 30—kilometer zone was termed in the secret letters of the Secretary of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of Ukraine Vladimir Shcherbitsky—the authorities hastily began the reverse process: re-evacuation!

 “Secret. Protocol No. 29. (…) June 23, 1986. The conclusion about the possibility of the return of children and pregnant women to the areas where the radiation levels fall within the limits of 2 to 5 mR/hr. 1. Allow the re-evacuation (return) of children and pregnant women to all residential areas where the combined calculated dose will not exceed 10 rem for the first year (237 residential areas in total)”, and there “where the calculated doses of radiation exposure (without the restriction of the consumption of contaminated foods) surpasses 10 rem,—from October 1, 1986…(174 residential areas)… Israel, Burenkov, Aleksandrov.” This is despite the fact that a month earlier the head of the State Committee for Hydrometeorology Yuri Israel reported: “Areas with radiation levels higher than 5 mR/hr (…) are recognized as dangerous for people to live in. In areas with radiation levels of less than 5 mR/hr it is critical to introduce strict control for radioactive food, especially milk.”

Secret recipes from the Politburo on the use of radioactive meat and milk are undoubtedly one of the strongest parts of the Kremlin-Chernobyl bestseller. “Secret. Protocol No. 32. August 22, 1986. (…) Paragraph 10: “Consider it expedient to store meat with an elevated level of radioactive contaminant in the government reserve, in storage, as well as subject for purchase in the current year.”

“Top Secret. Resolution of the Politburo of the CC CPSU on May 8, 1986. Comrade V.S. Murakhovsky’s report. (…) Secretary of the CC CPSU M.S. Gorbachev. (…) In the course of slaughtering large cattle and pigs, it is established that washing the animals with water and also the removal of their lymph nodes results in obtaining meat suitable for consumption.”

Secret. Attachment to paragraph 10 of Protocol No. 32. (…) At present, there are around 10 thousand tons of meat with contamination levels of radioactive materials from 1.1*10-7 Ci/kg to 1.0*10-g Ci/kg in storage in fridges of the meat industry in a number of regions, in August to December of this year it is expected that another 30 thousand tons of such meat will enter into production.” And then comes the recommendation: “…disperse the meat contaminated with radioactive material around the country as much as possible, and use it for the production of sausage products, canned goods, and manufactured meat products at a ratio of one to 10 with normal meat.”


...  Gorbachev ... thinking about the connection between Chernobyl and the threat that nuclear weapons represent: “One or two accidents like this and we would get it worse than from a total nuclear war.”



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Russia Has Hidden the Details of a Handful of Nuclear Accidents Since the 1950s — Here's What We Know About Them
https://amp.businessinsider.com/nuclear-accidents-russia-hid-details-2019-9


--------------------------

The U.S. did similar things ...

See also: https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,776.msg221917.html#msg221917

US Nuclear Tests Killed Far More Civilians Than We Knew
https://qz.com/1163140/us-nuclear-tests-killed-american-civilians-on-a-scale-comparable-to-hiroshima-and-nagasaki/
« Last Edit: September 30, 2019, 10:48:45 PM by vox_mundi »
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

vox_mundi

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Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1296 on: September 30, 2019, 06:09:53 PM »
The Time When A Burning B-52 Nearly Caused A Nuclear Catastrophe "Worse than Chernobyl"
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/29945/the-time-when-a-burning-b-52-nearly-caused-a-nuclear-catastrophe-worse-than-chernobyl
https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1991-08-13-9103280297-story.html

Nearly four decades ago, a U.S. Air Force B-52H bomber, armed with eight nuclear-tipped AGM-69A Short Range Attack Missiles and four B28 nuclear gravity bombs, burned for hours at Grand Forks Air Force Base in North Dakota. Years later, despite previous assurances that the risk of a nuclear accident had been low, the director of the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory, a key U.S. nuclear weapons research and development facility, testified that the incident had actually come very close to being "worse than Chernobyl."

Quote
... Each AGM-69A carried a W69 thermonuclear warhead, with an estimated yield of between 170 and 200 kilotons. The B28 nuclear gravity bombs, each had an estimated yields up to 1.45 megatons

The bomber and its six-person crew, assigned to the 319th Bomb Wing, were sitting on alert status at Grand Forks on the night of Sept. 15, 1980. The aircraft's number five engine burst into flames during an engine start at around 9:00 PM local time. The crew immediately evacuated the aircraft and firefighters ultimately battled the blaze for three hours before getting it under control.

Winds were high that night, blowing to the southwest with gusts registering between 26 and 35 miles per hour. The blasts of air kept the massive cone of flame from the burning engine blowing forward of the aircraft.  ... A subsequent investigation found that maintenance personnel had improperly reassembled a fuel strainer, which exists in the aircraft's fuel system to catch any particulate matter before it enters the engine, which could potentially cause damage of its own. The result was additional fuel flowing into the engine, leading to the fire. The nature of the fuel leak contributed to the difficulty in putting out the fire, as the number three wing tank in the fully fueled bomber kept feeding the flames.



At the time of the accident, the Air Force informed the public that there had been little danger of either the SRAMs or the B28 bombs detonating in a thermonuclear explosion. ... They Lied!

... In 1988, Dr. Roger Batzel, then-director of the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory, or LLNL, in California, testified before the Senate Appropriations Subcommittee on Defense in a closed session. A redacted transcript subsequently became available to the public.

... Batzel informed the subcommittee that if the wind had been blowing in almost any other direction, then the intense fire would have likely incinerated the aircraft and the weapons inside its bomb bays. The plane's crew would likely not have survived either.

Quote
... ''You are talking about something that in one respect could be probably worse than Chernobyl,'' Batzel said, referring to the Soviet nuclear reactor accident that spread radiation over a wide area.

''Is that right?'' said Sen. J. Bennett Johnston (D-La.).

''Yes, because you have plutonium in the soil and on the soil, which you have to clean up,'' Batzel said. ''I wouldn`t want either one.''

Sen. Dennis DeConcini (D-Ariz.) asked: ''That particular fire caused enough heat, then, that it would have caused this?''

Said Batzel: ''Yes, the aircraft burned for hours.''

Batzel said the ''high explosives which are in those particular warheads would have detonated. It would have happened in that environment.''

''Do you know that through testing?'' DeConcini asked.

''Yes, sir,'' Batzel said.

Robert Peurifoy, a retired vice president of the Sandia nuclear testing lab in Albuquerque, N.M., confirmed the outline of his testimony.

''It was one of the more risky incidents we faced,'' Peurifoy said.

Quote
... The SRAMs weren't the only risk during the accident at Grand Forks in 1980, though. "Worse still – and unmentioned by Batzel – a design flaw in the B28 bomb meant that if exposed to prolonged heat, two wires too close to the casing could short circuit, arm the bomb, trigger an accidental detonation of the HE [high explosives] surrounding the core, and set off a nuclear explosion"



... If one or more of the B28s had gone off that night in September nearly 40 years ago, modeling based on a single 1.45 megaton surface detonation, showed that the fireball would have torched everything within a mile of the base. The immediate shockwave, enough to severely damage or even destroy heavily built concrete structures, would have struck anything within a mile and a half from where the bomb was sitting.

Thermal radiation could have caused severe injuries to anyone within a 16 mile-wide circle around ground zero. This is to say nothing of the effects from the resulting fallout and how it might travel on the wind. NUKEMAP's projections, based on more recent weather conditions, suggest that the spread of radiation would have traveled more than 250 miles northeast, into Minnesota and Canada.

The southwesterly wind in 1980 would have pushed that plume in the other direction, at least initially, potentially covering a wide swath of predominantly rural farmland in North and South Dakota, potentially contaminating the Missouri River and countless farms. This could have produced farther-reaching impacts in the long term. Regardless, more than 60,000 people might have died instantly, or within days from burns or radiation, with an untold number of subsequent deaths, injuries, and long term illnesses resulting from the explosion in total.

-------------------------------

U.S. To Spend Hundreds Of Millions To Replace A $5 Part In Revamped Nuclear Weapons
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/30039/u-s-to-spend-hundreds-of-millions-to-replace-a-5-part-in-revamped-nuclear-weapons

Concerns about the reliability of commercial-off-the-shelf capacitors, each of which cost just $5, the Department of Energy had been planning to use in two future nuclear warhead designs will delay both programs by at least a year and a half and could result in up to a whopping $850 million in additional costs. The W88 ALT 370 warheads for the U.S. Navy's Trident D5 submarine-launch ballistics missiles and the U.S. Air Force B61-12 nuclear gravity bombs, the latter of which are already set to be worth literally twice their weight in gold each, are seeing impacts from the decision to switch to a more robust piece of circuitry.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2019, 07:51:47 PM by vox_mundi »
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

TerryM

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Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1297 on: October 01, 2019, 12:04:33 AM »
My wife worked in the office of the Las Vegas EPA in the early 60's when they were doing oversight for the Above Ground Nuclear Tests. All of the field personnel that she worked with have been dead for decades.
Terry

vox_mundi

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Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1298 on: October 01, 2019, 12:58:49 AM »
Terry, I wish your wife good health (you too)

With radiation. a few exposures of 5 to 25 rem will kill you just like 350 rem; it just takes longer. The cancer you get 10-20 years after the fact is always hard to pin down - unless you look at the statistics.

My Mom worked in the State tumor registry, a statistical database of all cancer patients.

What it showed was the clusters - of people from certain industries, or downwind of certain industries - like the 4 kids in my hometown who died of a very rare form of cancer. All within a quarter mile of each other - and a quarter mile from the exhaust from a PVC pipe manufacturer.

Or the workers at a local defense plant, that milled beryllium neutron reflectors for nuclear weapons - 7 out of 11 in that department died from cancer within 15 years.

None of these families knew each other or had any other  common factors between them - except for location. They probably wrote it off as bad luck.

Radiation is also like that. Except it keeps killing for generations.

Side note: I worked in the EPA Lab in Newport, OR. for a year; when I was taking graduate courses in toxicology at OSU back in the 80s.
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

TerryM

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Re: Nuclear Power
« Reply #1299 on: October 01, 2019, 03:44:26 AM »
Thanks Vox
The wife's healthy as could be imagined & my problems are neurological, and I didn't move to Las Vegas until '75.
Interesting work that your mother was involved in. Did they ever do anything with the data - warning "downwinders" or shutting down the polluters?
I had an office in Roseburg Or for a few years, but commuting from Riverside Ca wore me down. Beautiful country though.
Terry