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Author Topic: The Manhattan Project concept  (Read 22742 times)

Shared Humanity

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Re: The Manhattan Project concept
« Reply #50 on: April 23, 2014, 11:37:50 PM »
Nice vid, SH, thanks. Somehow, I've always liked Rifkin. He was one of the first people who set me on the path of thinking about sustainability, about 10-12 years ago when he was promoting the hydrogen economy/energy internet.

Empathy will flourish once we recognize inherent limits and start to respect them.

Your welcome. I feel that the solutions to our problems will be found in the realm of ideas. While technology will play a crucial role, it is critical  thinking that will  allow us  to overcome the obstacles in front of us.

Lucas Durand

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Re: The Manhattan Project concept
« Reply #51 on: April 24, 2014, 03:56:04 AM »
Shared humanity,
I haven't thoroughly read through all of this thread, but for what it's worth I think you're on the right track.

I have been lucky to participate in a small group like the one you have described with some very insightful people.
Being able to critically examine the human predicament without having to constantly cover the same ground repeatedly is a big advantage.
The deeper into the abyss you go the more it demands of a person psychologically, philosophically and spiritually.
You said something like this earlier: uncertainty and fear are the obstacles each person must tame for themselves before they can have any chance of being a "seed" for some new and more sustainable way of life.
But, paradoxically, there can also be some relief from realizing the inadequacies of human agency in this world.

Quote
The problem, for all of us, rests with the simple fact that the current growth system, the modern industrial economy which spans the globe, is the root of our problem...
This statement does capture a lot, but I think it is worth considering that this system is only a reflection of the human values that shaped it.
All but maybe a relatively tiny handful of human beings are the real root of the "human predicament" - the global industrial growth system you refer to is a physical manifestation of the aggregate of human values.
This is a tough pill to swallow.
Probably almost impossible for many as it is a notion that too strongly and too deeply challenges the foundations of social identity.
Like the video says: "The first drive is: The drive to actually belong".

The metaphor of the "monkey trap" is very apt in this regard.
The "solution" is simple; let go of the banana (ie, consciously choose to deviate from the cultural imperatives that drive the system and risk becoming a pariah) or sleep with hand tightly gripped around the banana until the hunter shows up (but you'll be in good company).
This type of change does not happen overnight so the sooner a person starts to concentrate on letting go the better.

Best of luck.

Shared Humanity

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Re: The Manhattan Project concept
« Reply #52 on: April 24, 2014, 04:43:52 AM »

Quote
The problem, for all of us, rests with the simple fact that the current growth system, the modern industrial economy which spans the globe, is the root of our problem...

This statement does capture a lot, but I think it is worth considering that this system is only a reflection of the human values that shaped it.
All but maybe a relatively tiny handful of human beings are the real root of the "human predicament" - the global industrial growth system you refer to is a physical manifestation of the aggregate of human values.
This is a tough pill to swallow.
Probably almost impossible for many as it is a notion that too strongly and too deeply challenges the foundations of social identity.
Like the video says: "The first drive is: The drive to actually belong".

The metaphor of the "monkey trap" is very apt in this regard.
The "solution" is simple; let go of the banana (ie, consciously choose to deviate from the cultural imperatives that drive the system and risk becoming a pariah) or sleep with hand tightly gripped around the banana until the hunter shows up (but you'll be in good company).
This type of change does not happen overnight so the sooner a person starts to concentrate on letting go the better.

Best of luck.

What you've written here is exactly the point. We are all willing participants in this growth system. It is the manifestation of our values and we operate within its parameters. I actually believe the only way to transform the system is on a very personal level, to choose to "let go of the banana".

Lucas Durand

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Re: The Manhattan Project concept
« Reply #53 on: April 25, 2014, 12:59:56 AM »
Quote
I actually believe the only way to transform the system is on a very personal level, to choose to "let go of the banana".
Shared Humanity,
Yes, I agree.
The reason I used quotations around "solution" is that this is not a solution in the sense that many people are craving, just a compromise with the reality of our predicament.

To "let go of the banana" is a big challenge and is only just the beginning.
However, what might come after is the interesting part - it is very much a blank canvass.

Bruce Steele

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Re: The Manhattan Project concept
« Reply #54 on: April 25, 2014, 05:15:21 PM »
The current growth paradigm is parasitic , it is a system of acquisition and growth by acquisition . The reason this system has gotten us into trouble is it is not regenerative. It hasn't figured out how to use currently available energy sources to power it's growth but instead utilizes energy stored by other lifeforms over millions of years of regenerative production... We are Parasitic. 
 Without getting into the buildup of Co2 as a result of our utilization of all the stored energy we use / burn any parasitic system will ultimately run out of energy as they consume their host. The human population is collectively killing it's host.
 There is nothing that says our current growth system is the only way to sustain a population of humans but before we had the ability to directly harness the power of the sun we were always dependent on utilizing solar power stored by other lifeforms. We are only continuing to do what we have always done, just faster and bigger. 
 If we are to change the paradigm we should focus on how we might create a system that utilizes the power of the sun to generate more energy . If we can use this power to benefit other lifeforms and help them store away carbon we will be part of a regenerative system otherwise known as GAIA