Support the Arctic Sea Ice Forum and Blog

Author Topic: Solar Roadways  (Read 52212 times)

TerryM

  • ASIF Governor
  • Posts: 4268
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 60
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: Solar Roadways
« Reply #350 on: March 04, 2018, 10:30:36 PM »
The Chinese are apparently going ahead with a Solar Highway that will charge your car as you drive - at 120 kmph.


https://sputniknews.com/science/201803031062199376-china-solar-highway-2022/

Could cut way back on the size of battery each vehicle requires.

Terry

Rob Dekker

  • ASIF Upper Class
  • Posts: 2269
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 91
  • Likes Given: 101
Re: Solar Roadways
« Reply #351 on: March 06, 2018, 08:45:55 AM »
The Chinese are apparently going ahead with a Solar Highway that will charge your car as you drive - at 120 kmph.


https://sputniknews.com/science/201803031062199376-china-solar-highway-2022/

Could cut way back on the size of battery each vehicle requires.

Terry

To "cut way back on the size of battery each vehicle requires" the entire road would have to be equipped with induction coils. And all the electric cars would have to be equipped with receiving induction coils as well. And the efficiency of the transfer would have to be close to or as good as charging a battery with a wire.

We are a long way from there.

From the article :

Quote
China's first solar expressway with a length of 1 kilometer was opened for testing in December 2017 in East China's Jinan. But it was vandalized and had sensitive parts stolen from it five days after opening, the Beijing Youth Daily said.
This is our planet. This is our time.
Let's not waste either.

Sigmetnow

  • ASIF Emperor
  • Posts: 14069
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 197
  • Likes Given: 121
Re: Solar Roadways
« Reply #352 on: March 06, 2018, 04:36:04 PM »
The Brusaw’s Solar Roadways team and one of their manufacturing partners were invited to speak in the UAE recently.

Quote
Solar Roadways was honored to accept a very exciting speaking engagement invitation in the UAE! Scott, one of our team members and an interested manufacturing partner have just returned from a wonderful trip to Dubai and Abu Dhabi. In addition to the speaking engagement, they had many meetings with interested customers and distributors in government and the private sector. Happy to have so much interest from this beautiful country! ... From the level of interest there, it sounds like there will be more opportunities in the near future.
https://www.facebook.com/solarroadways/posts/10154971694577126
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

Rob Dekker

  • ASIF Upper Class
  • Posts: 2269
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 91
  • Likes Given: 101
Re: Solar Roadways
« Reply #353 on: March 07, 2018, 08:19:47 AM »
The Brusaw’s Solar Roadways team and one of their manufacturing partners were invited to speak in the UAE recently.

Well. What do you know.
Maybe the UAE took it serious when I suggested to put a solar roadway over their Hype-R-loop:
https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,1094.msg143777.html#msg143777

Sorry. I couldn't resist.
This is our planet. This is our time.
Let's not waste either.

Sigmetnow

  • ASIF Emperor
  • Posts: 14069
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 197
  • Likes Given: 121
Re: Solar Roadways
« Reply #354 on: April 21, 2018, 02:07:00 PM »
The Brusaw’s have finalized their version 4 design of their Solar Roadway modules and are preparing for manufacturing later this year.
Quote
Exciting News: Scott completed the SR4 design this week! That will be the model released to the public this year with the help of our manufacturing partners. First one is in Ohio. In negotiations now with second group in Idaho and in talks with others around the world.
https://www.facebook.com/solarroadways/posts/10155071230657126

Other recent progress:
Quote
Solar Roadways is having more and more meetings with international connections. Although we email with people from all over the world every week, there is nothing like meeting in person to move things forward. This week we had a wonderful visit from a South Korean company interested in Manufacturing/Distribution opportunities to bring SR to the Asian Market. Last month, we had a visitor from Australia wanting to help introduce SR to the Australian market. In February, SR went to Dubai and Abu Dhabi and met with interested Customers, Manufacturers and Distributors interested in introducing Solar Road panels to the Middle East Market. Next month we have visitors coming who are interested in the African Market. And we are in talks with our friends in Austria who want to introduce SR to the European Market. We are working to find the perfect partners to bring panels to each corner of the world. ...
https://www.facebook.com/solarroadways/posts/10155053971637126
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

Sigmetnow

  • ASIF Emperor
  • Posts: 14069
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 197
  • Likes Given: 121
Re: Solar Roadways
« Reply #355 on: July 05, 2018, 12:46:44 AM »
From Solar Roadways:
Quote
Great article about E-Mek, our first Manufacturing Partners in Ohio and the jobs they plan to create making Solar Road Panels. So glad they are getting help from their state too:

"With the help of the Dayton Development Coalition, E-Mek was awarded $40,000 in economic development grant funding from JobsOhio to invest in new production equipment, which will help create the dozens of new jobs it is projecting."

They are busy gearing up and believe they will have the first panels ready later this year. ...
https://www.facebook.com/41869107125/posts/10155213007397126/

Solar panel production bringing 50 jobs to Dayton, Ohio region
Quote
Vandalia-based E-Mek Technologies, a contract manufacturer that specializes in printed circuit boards, has entered into an agreement with Solar Roadways LLC to make solar roadway panels at its 50,000-square-foot facility. These modular panels include solar cells to generate energy, a heating element to melt snow and LED lights that can be programmed to direct automobile and foot traffic. They are designed to replace traditional asphalt and concrete surfaces. ...
https://www.bizjournals.com/dayton/news/2018/06/28/solar-panel-production-bringing-50-jobs-to-dayton.html
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

Sigmetnow

  • ASIF Emperor
  • Posts: 14069
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 197
  • Likes Given: 121
Re: Solar Roadways
« Reply #356 on: July 15, 2018, 02:08:35 PM »
Tokyo Announces Plan To Install Solar Roads In Time For 2020 Olympics
Quote
Some solar panelling has already been installed on a trial basis in the Sagamihara, Kanagawa Prefecture by a Seven-Eleven. The technology was only introduced in May, but a manager at the Seven-Eleven store told the Business Times that it's starting to pay off.

"(The solar road system) can generate 16,145 kilowatt-hours of electricity annually, covering about 9 per cent of the entire electricity the store consumes."

It's important that the roads begin generating power more quickly, because they are currently quite expensive to install. Both France and the Netherlands have been experimenting with solar roads, and in France, it costs about 5 million euros for ever kilometer of road.

Japan has decided to continue the introduction of solar roads on government owned property, and will more likely focus on parking lots. The wider surface area can generate more electricity and justify the cost of installation.

Installation is supposed to begin during the 2019 fiscal year, and the process is intensive.

The road is made of solar panels that are installed in the ground, then covered in a special resin that makes them durable under the weight of traffic.

If this technology were more widely used, it would greatly reduce the cost of installation, as the components could be more affordably mass produced. So implementing any usage is increasing the likelihood of solar roads everywhere.
https://www.greenmatters.com/news/2018/06/11/ZdfqoX/tokyo-solar-road-olympics
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

Sigmetnow

  • ASIF Emperor
  • Posts: 14069
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 197
  • Likes Given: 121
Re: Solar Roadways
« Reply #357 on: July 18, 2018, 02:16:13 PM »
Quote
Exciting news: Today Solar Roadways was selected as one of 25 semi-finalists out of over 800 entries from all over the world in the Postcard Lottery Green Challenge!

The Postcode Lottery Green Challenge is one of the world's largest competitions in the field of sustainable entrepreneurship.

Five finalists will be invited to present in Amsterdam in September.

"The results are in! These 25 start-ups are in the running to win €500k to develop their innovative plans to save the planet."
https://m.facebook.com/41869107125/posts/10155239930737126/

https://greenchallenge.info/info/946-25-green-start-ups-that-are-changing-the-world
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

Rob Dekker

  • ASIF Upper Class
  • Posts: 2269
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 91
  • Likes Given: 101
Re: Solar Roadways
« Reply #358 on: September 07, 2018, 08:44:10 AM »
Remember the French WattWay project ?
We talked about it right here on this thread and EEVblog debunked their economics last year.
I posted this video among others that show that solar roadways simple will ALWAYS be inferior to solar rooftop installations :



Now, it looks like the French themselves are coming to their senses :

The solar road in Normandy produces half as much electricity as expected

https://www.techniques-ingenieur.fr/actualite/articles/route-solaire-normande-electricite-51088/

Quote
About a year ago the official website of the Ministry of Ecology announced that the solar road of Tourouvre in Normandy would produce 17963 kWh per day. Before retreating, lowering the daily production to 767 kWh. That's 23 times less. The newspaper Le Monde  echoed  this fix on December 22, 2016.

But production in the real world is even lower. This highly publicized road (340 kW) has produced an average of 409 kWh per day during the year 2017, or 149.4 MWh during the 365 days in question, reports Le Moniteur in  an article  posted online on December 22, 2017, exactly one year after the one of the World. In other words, in full power equivalent, it worked for one hour and twelve minutes each day.

with people really waking up that 'solar-roadways' are just a big waste of money :

Solar road: the big waste :

https://reporterre.net/Route-solaire-le-grand-gaspillage

Quote
The improvement of Normandy, inaugurated by Ségolène Royal on December 22, 2016, produced half as much electricity as expected during the year 2017. It cost 5 million euros. The one that was planned on the Marseille ring road and announced by Ségolène Royal in 2016 has apparently been abandoned. Just like the one that was to be installed on a regional road in Brittany.

A lesson learned :

Do the math, and find out that even this most efficient WattWay solution, solar roadways will give you 1/3rd the capacity at 9x the cost of solar rooftop. A lesson the French learned the hard way.

So, for any more of these projects that ANY municipality may consider : DO THE MATH first before you proceed.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2018, 09:19:15 AM by Rob Dekker »
This is our planet. This is our time.
Let's not waste either.

Sigmetnow

  • ASIF Emperor
  • Posts: 14069
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 197
  • Likes Given: 121
Re: Solar Roadways
« Reply #359 on: September 08, 2018, 01:27:06 AM »
It’s not just about the solar — any more than a smart phone is only about a touch screen, or an internet connection.  A combination of technologies can come together to make a very useful product.  That it is not the most powerful or efficient example of one of them is beside the point.  Wait and see what develops from these early attempts.

“No one is going to pay $400 for a smart phone.”
« Last Edit: September 08, 2018, 01:41:03 AM by Sigmetnow »
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

Rob Dekker

  • ASIF Upper Class
  • Posts: 2269
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 91
  • Likes Given: 101
Re: Solar Roadways
« Reply #360 on: September 08, 2018, 03:57:37 AM »
It’s not just about the solar — any more than a smart phone is only about a touch screen, or an internet connection.  A combination of technologies can come together to make a very useful product.  That it is not the most powerful or efficient example of one of them is beside the point.  Wait and see what develops from these early attempts.

Huh ? WattWays is ONLY a solar road. That's all it is : solar panels in the road.

What are you talking about when you mention "combination of technologies" ?
Are you referring to the Solar Roadways electric "snow melt" and "disco lights" features ?
Because if you do, we can have a separate discussion on how 'salt' and 'paint' would compete with these solutions in terms of effectiveness and cost.

Sigmetnow, you are a smart guy.

Don't you see that whenever we spend 9X the cost on 1/3rd the production that we miss out on 27X the solar power we could have gotten from rooftops or commercial systems for the same amount of investment ?

Don't you see that thus such 'solar road' fiascos are not just PREDICTABLY bad investment, but are also fuel on the fire of renewable critics and fossil fuel advocates ?

And thus that this hampers the green energy revolution ?
« Last Edit: September 08, 2018, 04:06:54 AM by Rob Dekker »
This is our planet. This is our time.
Let's not waste either.

oren

  • ASIF Governor
  • Posts: 3501
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 424
  • Likes Given: 918
Re: Solar Roadways
« Reply #361 on: September 08, 2018, 08:46:04 AM »
Quote
whenever we spend 9X the cost on 1/3rd the production that we miss out on 27X the solar power we could have gotten from rooftops or commercial systems for the same amount of investment ?
This is obviously the main issue. Even if you think solar roadways are a good idea, it should wait IMHO until roofs and other more suitable surfaces are converted to solar generation. But OTOH, Solar Roadways is NOT the cause of the delays in general solar deployment, it's just a tiny distraction, not worth much discussion to "debunk".

Rob Dekker

  • ASIF Upper Class
  • Posts: 2269
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 91
  • Likes Given: 101
Re: Solar Roadways
« Reply #362 on: September 08, 2018, 10:01:10 AM »
Quote
whenever we spend 9X the cost on 1/3rd the production that we miss out on 27X the solar power we could have gotten from rooftops or commercial systems for the same amount of investment ?
This is obviously the main issue. Even if you think solar roadways are a good idea, it should wait IMHO until roofs and other more suitable surfaces are converted to solar generation. But OTOH, Solar Roadways is NOT the cause of the delays in general solar deployment, it's just a tiny distraction, not worth much discussion to "debunk".

If you think public funding of failed solar initiatives are just a "tiny distraction", may I remind you of Solyndra and the ammunition that provided to the fossil-fuel industry advocates ? :

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/specialreports/solyndra-scandal/

And that was a technology that was only questionable (not guaranteed failures) at face value.

Wattways and other "solar road" initiatives on the other hand are demonstrably bad investments as even Dave @ EEVblog and Thunderf00t showed up-front.

Please, let us not go for such guaranteed solar failures, since they are just fuel for the fossil-fuel industry's arguments against green energy.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2018, 10:10:21 AM by Rob Dekker »
This is our planet. This is our time.
Let's not waste either.

gerontocrat

  • ASIF Governor
  • Posts: 4697
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 633
  • Likes Given: 12
Re: Solar Roadways
« Reply #363 on: September 08, 2018, 12:01:24 PM »
Much to my own surprise I can see it working in a few very limited locations. Solar pathways at clubs (e.g. golf clubs, country clubs) where wear and tear on the road surface (pedestrians, golf carts, a few posh autos and a maintenance pick-up, would provide a bit of power for the club, and make the filthy rich feel they were doing their bit for a green sustainable private income in the future.
"Para a Causa do Povo a Luta Continua!"
"And that's all I'm going to say about that". Forrest Gump
"Damn, I wanted to see what happened next" (Epitaph)

Sigmetnow

  • ASIF Emperor
  • Posts: 14069
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 197
  • Likes Given: 121
Re: Solar Roadways
« Reply #364 on: September 08, 2018, 02:25:05 PM »
So cement-surface roads, that contribute to greenhouse gases and buckle in the heat…  And asphalt road surfaces, which melt in the heat…   Are the pinnacle and sine qua non of roads?  Sorry, no.

Looking for better options, with different benefits, is exactly what is needed.  Claims that something is foolish or impossible because of a few false starts is exactly what held electric vehicle industry back for so long.
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

Rob Dekker

  • ASIF Upper Class
  • Posts: 2269
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 91
  • Likes Given: 101
Re: Solar Roadways
« Reply #365 on: September 09, 2018, 07:31:03 AM »
So cement-surface roads, that contribute to greenhouse gases and buckle in the heat…  And asphalt road surfaces, which melt in the heat…   Are the pinnacle and sine qua non of roads?  Sorry, no.

Looking for better options, with different benefits, is exactly what is needed.  Claims that something is foolish or impossible because of a few false starts is exactly what held electric vehicle industry back for so long.

Dear Sigmetnow. What happened to your reasoning ?
Solar roads are a factor 27 more expensive than solar rooftop.
They are possibly the WORST location to put solar panels.

And even without the solar stuff, glass is a terrible road surface.
It is too soft, and too brittle, thus easily causing cracks and break-up causing glass dust, which is also a health hazard.

So why are you still promoting it ?
This is our planet. This is our time.
Let's not waste either.

magnamentis

  • ASIF Upper Class
  • Posts: 2078
    • View Profile
    • Philosophy Ethics Numerology Mikrocirkulation Vaskular Therapie Gesundheit Blut Gesundheit Schmerzen Multiple Sklerose Diabetes Immunsystem Fibromyalgia Modular Mobile Computing iOS Software OSX Android Custom Rom Rooted
  • Liked: 91
  • Likes Given: 109
Re: Solar Roadways
« Reply #366 on: September 09, 2018, 03:07:41 PM »
So cement-surface roads, that contribute to greenhouse gases and buckle in the heat…  And asphalt road surfaces, which melt in the heat…   Are the pinnacle and sine qua non of roads?  Sorry, no.

Looking for better options, with different benefits, is exactly what is needed.  Claims that something is foolish or impossible because of a few false starts is exactly what held electric vehicle industry back for so long.

Dear Sigmetnow. What happened to your reasoning ?
Solar roads are a factor 27 more expensive than solar rooftop.
They are possibly the WORST location to put solar panels.

And even without the solar stuff, glass is a terrible road surface.
It is too soft, and too brittle, thus easily causing cracks and break-up causing glass dust, which is also a health hazard.

So why are you still promoting it ?

he did not promote the product but the approach as such and is right.

further perhaps we should (have to) sooner or later put money into seconder or even lower row and put the real needs like sustainability etc. into position one.

the people who are able and willing to invest have too much money and i think there should be a maximum wealth cap to keep private and exceeding wealth should kind of be mandatory to invest into non-profitable but necessary or meaningful and/or promissing projects that point into the right dircection, and this independent of the fact whether the technology as such at a given moment is already ready to fully serve the purpose.

this is how developments should start, money as the only valid criteria together with bragging rights and mass idiocy  has not proven to produce sustainable solutions.

almost any so called successful product has the potential and/or does come with very dangerous downsides, that includes smart-phones in the hands of kids for gaming, porn and mobbing as well as cars, airplanes, cruiseships etc.etc. all those things, as mass products, contribute to the ultimate downfall of human civilization or at least heavy disruptions.

topic is too complex to go any further here and will probably start useless discussions again which is why i end with

SIG is totally right with what he's trying to convey and petty reasoning about details (talking things to death) is not helpful in the process to initialize significant changes to the system. no matter whether this exact product could do what it is/was intent for, if all the roads would produce at least some energy in return to the surface the consume and costs they produce that would be great, hence the idea is great and that the first or second or 10th approach is not fully keeping up with it's promises is irrelevant. main thing is that we try to become more efficient and roads are a huge area that currently mainly serves to allow all the traffic that is a huge part of the problems which this forum is all about.
http://magnamentis.com
Knowledge, Understanding & Insight Are Among The Best Sources For Personal Freedom & Vitality !

Rob Dekker

  • ASIF Upper Class
  • Posts: 2269
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 91
  • Likes Given: 101
Re: Solar Roadways
« Reply #367 on: September 10, 2018, 02:48:42 AM »
magnamentis, I agree with your sentence that :

Quote
main thing is that we try to become more efficient and roads are a huge area

We are not getting more "efficient" by putting solar panels in the road surface.
We know now that that is actually 27X LESS efficient than putting the panels anywhere else.

So here (from Korea) is how you build a "solar road" that is efficient and does not require any new space :



And parking lots are a great place too :



So do you agree that we should make "solar roads" this way, or do you still insist on putting panels in the road surface for 27X the cost ?
This is our planet. This is our time.
Let's not waste either.

Sigmetnow

  • ASIF Emperor
  • Posts: 14069
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 197
  • Likes Given: 121
Re: Solar Roadways
« Reply #368 on: September 10, 2018, 05:28:33 PM »
Is a touch-screen smart phone worth 27 times the cost of a nearly-free dumb phone?  YES, say millions of people.  Because it is not just a phone

People around the globe are clamoring for this product for their sidewalks, driveways, and playgrounds.  Maybe they already have solar panels on their roof.  Maybe they don’t like the injuries their kids get from falling on a paved driveway.  Maybe they want it for sustainable-energy lighted paths in a public garden where they can’t use snow-melt chemicals and solar panels would be obtrusive.  Maybe they just think it’s a cool product.  To think they are buying this just for the solar is unbelievably narrow-minded, and misses the point of the product completely.  If all they wanted was solar, they’d get solar panels.  But that’s not what they want!

The Brusaws are working with manufacturers to finalize the design and price with the benefit of mass production.  The market will be enormous, even at multiples of pure solar prices.  And people will love it!
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

magnamentis

  • ASIF Upper Class
  • Posts: 2078
    • View Profile
    • Philosophy Ethics Numerology Mikrocirkulation Vaskular Therapie Gesundheit Blut Gesundheit Schmerzen Multiple Sklerose Diabetes Immunsystem Fibromyalgia Modular Mobile Computing iOS Software OSX Android Custom Rom Rooted
  • Liked: 91
  • Likes Given: 109
Re: Solar Roadways
« Reply #369 on: September 10, 2018, 08:22:49 PM »
magnamentis, I agree with your sentence that :

Quote
main thing is that we try to become more efficient and roads are a huge area

We are not getting more "efficient" by putting solar panels in the road surface.
We know now that that is actually 27X LESS efficient than putting the panels anywhere else.

So here (from Korea) is how you build a "solar road" that is efficient and does not require any new space :



And parking lots are a great place too :



So do you agree that we should make "solar roads" this way, or do you still insist on putting panels in the road surface for 27X the cost ?

you still talk in current terms and considering current technology and conditions and thus far you are mostly right.

my point was another one, to get to a point where things make sense we have to try and fail. most things that we see as self-evident nowadays have once been starting with an idea and took a huge toll of lives and all kinds of fails until someone came up with a solution.

since we don't have such a solution now, i can't tell what it could be but i think in terms of new materials and perhaps lesser output but therefore almost no additional costs etc.

i value the trial higher than the lack of success because we must be ready to try and fail to get somewhere.

and last but not least it's possible that the entire idea will die, i don't deny the possibility, perhaps there won't be roads in the future, who knows. for now i find the idea to use already and vastly used/abused space in for additional purposes to increase efficiency of uses space good and no matter how big a fail one product is/was, as long as we learn something (might well be that it's not feasible) it has to be done.

if we were thinking things are not possible just because we don't know how yet, we wouldn't have made much progress, good and bad. or does anyone believe that modern vessels and airplanes would work the way they do without all the sunk ships and crashed planes and/or with bamboo frames of the old days ;)

because of the value of the idea as such and the trial as such i simply believe that we should not judge too hard over the mistakes the were made and the illusions that sometimes burst like a soap bubble
http://magnamentis.com
Knowledge, Understanding & Insight Are Among The Best Sources For Personal Freedom & Vitality !

oren

  • ASIF Governor
  • Posts: 3501
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 424
  • Likes Given: 918
Re: Solar Roadways
« Reply #370 on: September 10, 2018, 10:16:56 PM »
IMHO there will not be a large market for this due to prohibitive price relative to benefits. I wouldn't mind to be proven wrong.
Indeed, has there been a mention of prices? Release dates?

Sigmetnow

  • ASIF Emperor
  • Posts: 14069
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 197
  • Likes Given: 121
Re: Solar Roadways
« Reply #371 on: September 11, 2018, 02:09:49 AM »
IMHO there will not be a large market for this due to prohibitive price relative to benefits. I wouldn't mind to be proven wrong.
Indeed, has there been a mention of prices? Release dates?

The market will absolutely be a niche at the beginning.  But then, so was rooftop solar, so... it will be interesting to see how this evolves.

Last I heard, SR were in discussions with their manufacturers, working to get mass production and price as favorable as possible, for a release later this year.  The question will be whether the product’s many features make it attractive enough to buy at a premium price.
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

vox_mundi

  • ASIF Middle Class
  • Posts: 646
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 142
  • Likes Given: 61
Re: Solar Roadways
« Reply #372 on: September 21, 2018, 05:34:39 PM »
Improving energy efficiency seems like a better use of investments ...

Solar panels replaced tarmac on a motorway—here are the results
https://phys.org/news/2018-09-solar-panels-tarmac-motorwayhere-results.html

One of the first solar roads to be installed is in Tourouvre-au-Perche, France. This has a maximum power output of 420 kWs, covers 2,800 m² and costed €5m to install. This implies a cost of €11,905 (£10,624) per installed kW.

While the road is supposed to generate 800 kilowatt hours per day (kWh/day), some recently released data indicates a yield closer to 409 kWh/day, or 150,000 kWh/yr. For an idea of how much this is, the average UK home uses around 10 kWh/day. The road's capacity factor – which measures the efficiency of the technology by dividing its average power output by its potential maximum power output – is just 4%.

In contrast, the Cestas solar plant near Bordeaux, which features rows of solar panels carefully angled towards the sun, has a maximum power output of 300,000 kWs and a capacity factor of 14%. And at a cost of €360m (£321m), or €1,200 (£1,070) per installed kW, one-tenth the cost of our solar roadway, it generates three times more power.

... In America, a company called Solar Roadways has developed a smart highway with solar panels, including sensors and LED lights to display traffic warnings about any upcoming hazards, such as a deer. It also has heating pads to melt snow in winter.

Several of their SR3 panels have been installed in a small section of pavement in Sandypoint, Idaho. This is 13.9 m² in area, with an installed capacity of 1.529 KWs. The installation cost is given as $48,734 (about £37,482), which implies a cost per installed kW of €27,500 (£24,542), more than 20 times higher than the Cestas powerplant.

Solar Roadway's own estimates are that the LED lights would consume 106 MWh per lane mile, with the panels generating 415 MWh – so more than 25% of the useful power is consumed by the LEDs. This would reduce performance even further. The heating plates are also quoted as drawing 2.28 MW per lane mile, so running them for just six days would cancel out any net gain from the solar panels.

And this is before we look at the actual data from the Sandypoint installation, which generated 52.397 kWhs in 6 months, or 104.8 kWhs over a year. From this we can estimate a capacity factor of just 0.782%, which is 20 times less efficient than the Cestas power plant.
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

jacksmith4tx

  • ASIF Citizen
  • Posts: 266
    • View Profile
    • Photon mine
  • Liked: 25
  • Likes Given: 10
Re: Solar Roadways
« Reply #373 on: September 21, 2018, 06:18:39 PM »
Thanks vox_mundi
This had to be publicity stunt. Any 1st. year physics student could have told them the math just doesn't add up. What a waste.

Reminds me of one of Trump's border wall prototypes that had solar panels mounted almost vertically.  ::)
Science is a thought process, technology will change reality.

Sigmetnow

  • ASIF Emperor
  • Posts: 14069
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 197
  • Likes Given: 121
Re: Solar Roadways
« Reply #374 on: September 30, 2018, 08:26:13 PM »
Minimizing bitumen in asphalt road surfaces.

Is it the end of the road for asphalt and concrete?
Quote
Asphalt is particularly prone to potholes and is susceptible to damage from extremes of weather and temperature. And, since bitumen is an oil product, it is not truly sustainable long-term. Both asphalt and concrete road surfaces are also expensive to build and maintain.

In response to these challenges, a number of alternative solutions have been proposed by companies and researchers around the world. What are these alternative road surfaces, and how likely are they to catch on? ...
https://eandt.theiet.org/content/articles/2018/09/is-it-the-end-of-the-road-for-asphalt-and-concrete/
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

GoSouthYoungins

  • ASIF Middle Class
  • Posts: 792
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 37
  • Likes Given: 106
Re: Solar Roadways
« Reply #375 on: September 30, 2018, 10:10:40 PM »
Minimizing bitumen in asphalt road surfaces.
Is it the end of the road for asphalt and concrete?https://eandt.theiet.org/content/articles/2018/09/is-it-the-end-of-the-road-for-asphalt-and-concrete/

All 5 "contenders" to replace asphalt and concrete are ridiculous. Maybe they make sense for a little project here are there but at any sort of scale they would be ridiculously expensive (AKA energy intensive).

Concrete roads make sense for the crucial veins of transport, and everything else should be depaved (AKA dirt).
big time oops

TerryM

  • ASIF Governor
  • Posts: 4268
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 60
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: Solar Roadways
« Reply #376 on: October 01, 2018, 12:23:48 AM »
Minimizing bitumen in asphalt road surfaces.
Is it the end of the road for asphalt and concrete?https://eandt.theiet.org/content/articles/2018/09/is-it-the-end-of-the-road-for-asphalt-and-concrete/

All 5 "contenders" to replace asphalt and concrete are ridiculous. Maybe they make sense for a little project here are there but at any sort of scale they would be ridiculously expensive (AKA energy intensive).

Concrete roads Steel Rails make sense for the crucial veins of transport, and everything else should be depaved (AKA dirt) bicycle paths.


Terry

GoSouthYoungins

  • ASIF Middle Class
  • Posts: 792
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 37
  • Likes Given: 106
Re: Solar Roadways
« Reply #377 on: October 01, 2018, 03:07:58 AM »
Terry, I strongly agree. I was just giving my 2 cents if it has to be roads.
big time oops

TerryM

  • ASIF Governor
  • Posts: 4268
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 60
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: Solar Roadways
« Reply #378 on: October 01, 2018, 10:43:30 AM »
Terry, I strongly agree. I was just giving my 2 cents if it has to be roads.


Your's has a (small) possibility of being implemented - mine, not so much.
Trump's 7F will probably prove to be a self fulfilling prophesy, no matter who wins future elections. :-\
Terry

Sigmetnow

  • ASIF Emperor
  • Posts: 14069
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 197
  • Likes Given: 121
Re: Solar Roadways
« Reply #379 on: December 11, 2018, 06:45:06 PM »
A technical update on Solar Roadways panels version 4 has been posted.
SR4 increases wattage to 50W with 22.5-percent efficient solar cells.
Extract:
Quote
Civil Engineering Tests Completed

As part of our third contract with the US Department of Transportation, our panels have been undergoing testing at the civil engineering department at Marquette University in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. They performed the following tests:

Shear testing
Freeze/Thaw cycling
Moisture conditioning
Accelerated load testing (simulates 15-years of truck abuse in 3-months)

They were so impressed by the results of the testing that they want to co-author a journal paper with us about the overall test program. We’ll be releasing the findings in a scientific engineering journal.
http://www.solarroadways.com/Blog/Show?b=Scott2

From the Brusaw’s Facebook page:
“Thank you to all of you, our supporters, who are always there with a word of encouragement and support as we work to get to full production. We are working hand in hand with our first Manufacturing Partners in Ohio, collaborating on production decisions as we get closer to full production. The first panels will likely be available during the first half of 2019.”
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

Sigmetnow

  • ASIF Emperor
  • Posts: 14069
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 197
  • Likes Given: 121
Re: Solar Roadways
« Reply #380 on: January 20, 2019, 04:15:25 PM »
Non-skid, easily cleaned, lights for safety.  Potential deck ice melter on foul weather ships?
Quote
official_solar_roadways:  Lately we have received increasing interest in using our Solar Road Panels on boats and ships, large and small. We love the idea and are excited that the applications for Solar Roadways appear to be endless.  To illustrate this application, graphic artist Benjamin Todd created this graphic for us to illustrate how panels might be used on a cruise ship: clean energy, LED lights for ambiance and safety, beautiful pedestrian texture.
<    How is surface temperature?
SR: Well that will depend on the weather obviously. It's not something we have focused on yet, but if heat proves to be a problem in some climates, we have some potential solutions in R&D
<    Don't forget the docks themselves.
SR: Good point, we have had customers ask about that too. ...
<     How to get @Amtrak on board?!?
SR: They have already contacted us.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BsbyhGfnTZV/
Rendered image below.
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

SteveMDFP

  • ASIF Upper Class
  • Posts: 1181
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 93
  • Likes Given: 8
Re: Solar Roadways
« Reply #381 on: January 20, 2019, 10:39:26 PM »
Non-skid, easily cleaned, lights for safety.  Potential deck ice melter on foul weather ships?
Quote
official_solar_roadways:  Lately we have received increasing interest in using our Solar Road Panels on boats and ships, large and small. We love the idea and are excited that the applications for Solar Roadways appear to be endless.  To illustrate this application, graphic artist Benjamin Todd created this graphic for us to illustrate how panels might be used on a cruise ship: clean energy, LED lights for ambiance and safety, beautiful pedestrian texture.
<    How is surface temperature?
SR: Well that will depend on the weather obviously. It's not something we have focused on yet, but if heat proves to be a problem in some climates, we have some potential solutions in R&D
<    Don't forget the docks themselves.
SR: Good point, we have had customers ask about that too. ...
<     How to get @Amtrak on board?!?
SR: They have already contacted us.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BsbyhGfnTZV/
Rendered image below.

This strikes me as a plausible niche application.  Panels designed for road surfaces should be robust enough to work in a punishing marine environment.  Battery weight should be a non-issue in most ships.  Actual reduction in fossil fuel use would be quite small, but perhaps worthwhile.

Rob Dekker

  • ASIF Upper Class
  • Posts: 2269
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 91
  • Likes Given: 101
Re: Solar Roadways
« Reply #382 on: January 25, 2019, 04:55:32 AM »
We have talked quite a bit on this thread about the fundamental in-efficiency of Solar Roadways, so before jumping on Solar Roadways being installed on ships; it really helps to get some perspective.

A reality check if you will, to see what Solar Roadways has accomplished over the past, say, 12 years or so.

Promises, versus what actually was delivered :

« Last Edit: January 25, 2019, 05:27:42 AM by Rob Dekker »
This is our planet. This is our time.
Let's not waste either.

Sigmetnow

  • ASIF Emperor
  • Posts: 14069
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 197
  • Likes Given: 121
Re: Solar Roadways
« Reply #383 on: January 25, 2019, 05:35:33 PM »
”...what Solar Roadways has accomplished over the past, say, 12 years or so. ...

LOL.  Edison spent years finding 1,000 ways to not make a light bulb... before finding one that did.

Solar Roadways new Version 4 panels are scheduled to go into production by the end of this month.  Let’s see how they fare.
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

TerryM

  • ASIF Governor
  • Posts: 4268
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 60
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: Solar Roadways
« Reply #384 on: January 25, 2019, 07:10:33 PM »
”...what Solar Roadways has accomplished over the past, say, 12 years or so. ...

LOL. Edison spent years finding 1,000 ways to not make a light bulb... before finding one that did.

Solar Roadways new Version 4 panels are scheduled to go into production by the end of this month.  Let’s see how they fare.
... before finding that Swan's bulbs hadn't been patented in the States yet.  8)


A bit OT, but the myth of Edison's light bulbs, Edison's movies and so many other of Edison's "inventions" needs no further promulgation.
Edison was, in the main, a thief who took credit for the genius of others.
Terry

Darvince

  • ASIF Citizen
  • Posts: 254
    • View Profile
    • NSIDC Daily
  • Liked: 8
  • Likes Given: 4
Re: Solar Roadways
« Reply #385 on: January 26, 2019, 09:56:57 AM »
Trying to achieve something many, many times and then once succeeding and being hailed as a genius for that one lucky attempt is often how invention works, is it not? Although before you brand me as a blind proponent of solar roadways, I would also argue that to me this is a worse derivative off of the technology of solar PV in general, since they have to withstand so much more for so little benefit.

Sigmetnow

  • ASIF Emperor
  • Posts: 14069
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 197
  • Likes Given: 121
Re: Solar Roadways
« Reply #386 on: April 18, 2019, 02:36:37 PM »
How Technology Can Pave The Future Of Our Roadways
Quote
By most reports, by 2020 there will be 10 million semi and fully autonomous cars on the road. And according to Stanford Magazine, by 2030, passenger vehicles will drop to 44 million down from 247 million in 2020.

Dr. Andrew Dubner, Business Leader, 3M Connected Roads says that with an anticipated fleet change that could take decades, roads will need to accommodate both human and machine navigated vehicles.

"Existing safety materials on roadways today in the form of lane markings and traffic signs help safely guide drivers through visual cues such as shape, color and retroreflective properties for nighttime driving," said Dubner. "But these same materials can be optimized for machine navigation, as well."

Dubner says that having the right technology on the road surface is critical for the effective and efficient performance of machine vision systems, especially in challenging weather and light conditions such as rain at night.

Many vehicles on the road today are equipped with advanced driver assistance (ADAS) technology, such as lane-keep assist or lane departure warning. In 2016, 5,281,385 cars (30%) had blind spot detection. These safety features use machine vision or cameras to 'see' the roadway, similar to how the human eye sees the road.

Brusaw says that their solar road panels under the third DOT contract were subjected to the same kinds of tests that concrete and asphalt are exposed to such as freeze/thaw cycling, moisture conditioning, shear testing and advanced loading performed at the civil engineering department at Marquette University.

"We’ve always planned for roads to be our final application, but we want to learn our lessons on non-critical installations like walkways or parking lots first," added Brusaw.

Brusaw says he also sees the roads of the future as dynamic charging tools for electric vehicles and possibly becoming the guidance system for autonomous vehicles and make autonomous cars safer. …
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jenniferhicks/2019/03/29/how-technology-can-pave-the-future-of-our-roadways/?fbclid=IwAR3rmIgN4TcKoC8DQA2SVd25pTVbka4wvtB_GrgsQYt_WVp0VG4HWg2eKzM&r=slt-eml-bck-a2e0&utm_source=sailthru
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

Tom_Mazanec

  • ASIF Citizen
  • Posts: 167
    • View Profile
    • Planet Mazanec
  • Liked: 13
  • Likes Given: 11
Re: Solar Roadways
« Reply #387 on: April 22, 2019, 01:55:22 PM »
Couldn't work the link at the top of this thread, but if I understand the comments this is putting solar cells on roads instead of asphalt to power the cars?
We will have solar powered cars. They will not be like that The Raccoons episode where Bert drives a solar powered car with a solar cell the size of a barn door (and peddles bicycle style when it gets cloudy) but I expect that you will just plug the car into an outlet when it is not driving. The electricity comes from solar...farms in the Southwest powering the grid, panels on roofs, solar powered roads...however we decide to do it. At the rate solar is growing it will supply all of America's energy needs by 2040.
SHARKS (CROSSED OUT) MONGEESE (SIC) WITH FRICKIN LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS