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TerryM

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Re: Solar Roadways
« Reply #400 on: August 18, 2019, 06:35:17 PM »
^^
Ramen!
Have we reached the stage where we believe, at least subconsciously that they're always lying.


Then assume that if most experts are saying that the idea is just no good that they must be lying.
And only the heroic figures standing against those lying experts must be telling the truth?


It's a very strange thought process, but the subconscious thinks in strange ways.
Terry

kassy

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Re: Solar Roadways
« Reply #401 on: August 18, 2019, 06:36:20 PM »
If only government had a way to hire some scientists to advise on that concept before spending the money...
Þetta minnismerki er til vitnis um að við vitum hvað er að gerast og hvað þarf að gera. Aðeins þú veist hvort við gerðum eitthvað.

petm

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Re: Solar Roadways
« Reply #402 on: August 18, 2019, 08:01:36 PM »
lol

if only

if only the government cared at all about the truth and the future

Rob Dekker

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Re: Solar Roadways
« Reply #403 on: August 23, 2019, 10:34:42 AM »
SolaRoad in the Netherlands created that $5 million solar bike lane.
It cost 100X of rooftop solar, and broke on the first day of a bit of frost :



Still, the Dutch government gave them another grant, so they could build something more substantial.
They did.
They built a "solar bus lane".
An it broke within a week :

https://www.cobouw.nl/infra/nieuws/2019/03/busbaan-van-solaroad-al-binnen-een-week-kapot-101270923?vakmedianet-approve-cookies=1&_ga=2.67821201.1695215524.1566192838-1096526447.1566192838



When are we going to learn that solar panels in a road are just a VERY bad idea ?
This is our planet. This is our time.
Let's not waste either.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Solar Roadways
« Reply #404 on: November 24, 2019, 12:20:12 AM »
Solar Roadways unveils latest model of solar panels in Sandpoint
Quote
SANDPOINT, Idaho — North Idaho company, Solar Roadways unveiled its latest model of solar panels on Wednesday.

Solar Roadways leaders said the latest panels are more efficient than ever and it’s the first model that will be commercially available.  The new panels have new solar cells, new LEDs and an anti-glare surface.

"Basically, everything that we weren't completely pleased with the SR3, we changed in the SR 4," said Solar Roadways Co-Founder Scott Brusaw.
...
They have a project lined up in Baltimore and will travel to Florida next month for more work.
"The city of Orlando is interested in several projects. NASA is interested in doing something at the Kennedy Space center," he said.
https://www.krem.com/article/news/local/bonner-county/solar-roadways-unveils-latest-model-of-solar-panels/293-af8b4b36-210c-49c0-98c0-8006fb91c822
Video in the article.
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

vox_mundi

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Re: Solar Roadways
« Reply #405 on: November 24, 2019, 12:31:56 AM »
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

Sigmetnow

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Re: Solar Roadways
« Reply #406 on: November 24, 2019, 12:38:49 AM »
.
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

vox_mundi

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Re: Solar Roadways
« Reply #407 on: November 24, 2019, 01:13:53 AM »
Although solving engineering problems is laudable, if you have a surface that gets constant traffic go with it's strength - not it's weakness; why not piezoelectric power generation?

https://www.omicsonline.org/open-access/power-generation-using-piezoelectric-material-2169-0022-1000171.php?aid=54142
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

Sigmetnow

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Re: Solar Roadways
« Reply #408 on: November 24, 2019, 03:09:31 AM »
Although solving engineering problems is laudable, if you have a surface that gets constant traffic go with it's strength - not it's weakness; why not piezoelectric power generation?

https://www.omicsonline.org/open-access/power-generation-using-piezoelectric-material-2169-0022-1000171.php?aid=54142

I agree that could be beneficial.  But others here freaked because, they said, it would “reduce vehicle efficiency.”  ;)  ::)
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

TerryM

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Re: Solar Roadways
« Reply #409 on: November 24, 2019, 04:45:27 AM »



These are not times when chasing pipedreams with other people's money should be applauded or encouraged. These monies could have been spent on viable projects that would have delayed the onset of the collapse that we all fear.


It's not newsworthy to report yet another example validating Barnum's nostrum regarding our grandparent's progeny. Suckers are still born every minute, & with little grounding in science it's not difficult for the rubes to fall for yet another pie in the sky scheme, especially if they're lead to believe that some of the crust's crumbs will find their way into the rube's back pockets.


Investing community money in Solar Roadways is as reprehensible as building on the commons beneath the rising seal levels of Florida's coast. All involved should be sentenced to sit naked 'neath the flyway of well nourished seals, awaiting the falling sky pies even as electrified solar pavement sends shocking waves coursing through the cheekiness of their nether regions until the sun and the seals again sink silently beneath the waves of azure P.M. grit.


My object all sublime.
I shall achieve in time.
To make the punishment fit the crime - this punishment fits the crime. ;D
To make each prisoner pent,
a source of innocent merriment - of innocent merriment. ::)
-attributed to, and freely interpreted from the account of a Much Maligned Mythical Oriental Potentate

Terry

TerryM

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Re: Solar Roadways
« Reply #410 on: November 24, 2019, 06:09:19 AM »

Solar Roadways
These highways of good intention are paved with gold bricks. Goldbricking swindlers make fortunes scamming well intentioned rubes unfamiliar with the sciences involved, or the detection of fraudulent schemes & scammers.
While Solar Roadways may never be profitable, a list of their backers or investors might prove to be invaluable in the hands of the unscrupulous. It's almost a Rorschach Test. It could be interesting to take a flyer if only to see whose mailers began targeting you.

Would the DNC or the RNC be the first to beat a path to your door?
Would all scammers take an interest, or only the green hued ones?

If few took the proffered bait would that indicate that there are so many suckers in the pond that fishing for a particular one isn't worth the effort, or that there were so few suckers left unhooked that squeezing your own catch paid bigger benefits than trolling for new meat?

Would a flooded inbox indicate lots of businesses seeking investors, rather than making profits?

Terry
in search of innocent merriment :)

Rob Dekker

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Re: Solar Roadways
« Reply #411 on: November 24, 2019, 07:54:25 AM »
Although solving engineering problems is laudable, if you have a surface that gets constant traffic go with it's strength - not it's weakness; why not piezoelectric power generation?

https://www.omicsonline.org/open-access/power-generation-using-piezoelectric-material-2169-0022-1000171.php?aid=54142

I agree that could be beneficial.  But others here freaked because, they said, it would “reduce vehicle efficiency.”  ;)  ::)

Yes. It takes energy from cars at a loss.
This is our planet. This is our time.
Let's not waste either.

Tom_Mazanec

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Re: Solar Roadways
« Reply #412 on: November 24, 2019, 03:39:10 PM »
TerryM:
Quote
It's not newsworthy to report yet another example validating Barnum's nostrum regarding our grandparent's progeny. Suckers are still born every minute, & with little grounding in science it's not difficult for the rubes to fall for yet another pie in the sky scheme, especially if they're lead to believe that some of the crust's crumbs will find their way into the rube's back pockets.
Of course that was back then. With a much higher population of people now, who are less educated, it is more like a sucker being born every second.
SHARKS (CROSSED OUT) MONGEESE (SIC) WITH FRICKIN LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

Sigmetnow

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Re: Solar Roadways
« Reply #413 on: November 24, 2019, 04:16:12 PM »
So many of you arguing against innovation.  Would you prefer to be reading the Forum handwritten on paper, by the light of an oil lamp?  Or perhaps scratchings on cave walls?

Quote
After struggling to develop a viable electric light-bulb for months and months, Thomas Edison was interviewed by a young reporter who boldly asked Mr. Edison if he felt like a failure and if he thought he should just give up by now. Perplexed, Edison replied, "Young man, why would I feel like a failure? And why would I ever give up? I now know definitively over 9,000 ways that an electric light bulb will not work. Success is almost in my grasp." And shortly after that, and over 10,000 attempts, Edison invented the light bulb.

Landing an orbital-class rocket and re-using it was a pipe dream too — until it wasn’t.  Years of failures before accomplishing what will totally transform the industry. Access to space used to be like throwing away an airliner after it completes one flight;  now it will require only a bit of maintenance and and a tankful of fuel.  Literally world-changing.


If you don’t see the utility in Solar Roadways panels... don’t buy them!  There are plenty of other folks (including multiple Dept. of Transportation tests and studies) validating the idea, envisioning a possible future for the product, and willing to support attempts to see what it might lead to.  Might be a game-changer.  Might be the 9,000th filament.  Might be the first orbital-class rocket that doesn’t crash on landing.  We’ll see.
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

oren

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Re: Solar Roadways
« Reply #414 on: November 24, 2019, 04:47:53 PM »
Solar Roadways are a useless invention, therefore the analogy doesn't hold. When all the roofs and parking lots and highways and deserts are covered with solar panels, then it might be time to think of putting panels under the constant hammering of trucks and cars, being shaded by wheel and chassis, mud, dirt and oil, and pointed upwards instead of at the sun. The physics are simply against it.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Solar Roadways
« Reply #415 on: November 25, 2019, 02:49:34 PM »
Solar Roadways are a useless invention, therefore the analogy doesn't hold. ...

Well, you could say babies are similarly useless.  :)  Years later, when they grow up, they become useful.

The first SR projects are likely to be attractive solar plazas and solar playgrounds.  Like Tesla solar roofs replacing dumb roofs, this is a product that will become a desirable alternative to ugly cement public areas — providing new functionality and PV benefits.  As I have written before, I do not see these panels replacing all roads.  But there is considerable interest for SR panels on private property and driveways.  Freaking NASA wants some!
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

oren

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Re: Solar Roadways
« Reply #416 on: November 25, 2019, 06:53:29 PM »
I concede it might be useful for remote places where people walk or cycle, such as parks and trails, where roofs could be detrimental to the view, AND there is no tree shade, but some electricity could be useful. But even then, it seems a better placement would be next to the trail, where people would not obstruct the sunlight.
Under cars and trucks - still no. But I'll wait patiently for the commercial launch (if it ever comes), and then we'll see.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Solar Roadways
« Reply #417 on: November 25, 2019, 07:25:33 PM »
I concede it might be useful for remote places where people walk or cycle, such as parks and trails, where roofs could be detrimental to the view, AND there is no tree shade, but some electricity could be useful. But even then, it seems a better placement would be next to the trail, where people would not obstruct the sunlight.
Under cars and trucks - still no. But I'll wait patiently for the commercial launch (if it ever comes), and then we'll see.

Thank you for your patience!  :)

Multi-use scenarios might be the first to make sense.  For example, a company running a fleet of (clean! ;)) electric trucks but which has insufficient roof for solar could use a part of the parking lot to generate energy during the day when the trucks are out on the street — while allowing the company’s daycare service to configure the parking lot panels’ LEDs for games for the kids during playtime.  And melt the occasional snow and ice, without chemicals or plows.  Nothing essential about incorporating SR panels here, but a new, cleaner paradigm for those desiring it.
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

NeilT

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Re: Solar Roadways
« Reply #418 on: November 26, 2019, 03:39:07 PM »
Solar Roadways are a useless invention, therefore the analogy doesn't hold. When all the roofs and parking lots and highways and deserts are covered with solar panels, then it might be time to think of putting panels under the constant hammering of trucks and cars, being shaded by wheel and chassis, mud, dirt and oil, and pointed upwards instead of at the sun. The physics are simply against it.

I would have thought that putting panels Over the road would have been a far, far, better use of them.  Not so slightly though.
Being right too soon is socially unacceptable.

Robert A. Heinlein

Sigmetnow

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Re: Solar Roadways
« Reply #419 on: November 26, 2019, 04:39:35 PM »
Folks seem to be really hung up on the “Roads” aspect of the Brusaw’s SR product.  “Solar Roadways” is the name they are stuck with for now.  But if they were made in China and called “Happy Fun Bright Sun (Melt Snow) Ground Panels,” would that help for understanding and acceptance of other use ideas? 

Solar panels — they’re not just fragile things for roofs and canopies any more!
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

TerryM

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Re: Solar Roadways
« Reply #420 on: November 26, 2019, 06:29:29 PM »
Folks seem to be really hung up on the “Roads” aspect of the Brusaw’s SR product.  “Solar Roadways” is the name they are stuck with for now.  But if they were made in China and called “Happy Fun Bright Sun (Melt Snow) Ground Panels,” would that help for understanding and acceptance of other use ideas? 
<snipped>
No it's a stupid con no matter what it's called. The name isn't the problem, it's the concept.
This represents money that could have been spent effectively or frivolously, rather than being thrown at a concept that benefits no one but the cons who thought it up.


It's been tried - It failed - Its time to move on.
Send some money to Holme's lawyers if you're determined to help a failed con artist.
Terry

Rob Dekker

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Re: Solar Roadways
« Reply #421 on: December 15, 2019, 09:43:39 AM »
Just for the fun of it, now that we know that putting solar panels in the road is a really bad idea, here is the first serious debunking, from 5 years ago, by Dave @ EEVblog :



Incidentally, Solar Roadways is still around, and they now have their version 4 panels, on which the data has just become available. But let me warn you, it ain't pretty :



And here is Dave debunking a wind power solution from AmericanWind WindWall :



I love this guy. Just using the back of an envelope, with basic physics, he shows why some AGW "solutions" are just fraudulent non-starters.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2019, 09:59:20 AM by Rob Dekker »
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NeilT

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Re: Solar Roadways
« Reply #422 on: December 15, 2019, 01:10:48 PM »
You just have to watch the road gangs laying 3 feet of concrete, to support the weight of traffic in the expectation that they will have to dig it up and relay it 10 years later and redo it.

No further debunking needed. You will not create a solar panel that has the strength to resist something feet of concrete cannot.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Solar Roadways
« Reply #423 on: April 11, 2020, 04:50:11 PM »
Quote
Big News!

Solar Roadways USDOT testing results:

As promised, we are sharing the results of our last round of testing as part of our 3rd USDOT contract today. All tests were performed at independent universities. The final tests were completed at Marquette University in Wisconsin. Their engineers were so pleased with the results that they asked Scott to co-author a white paper to submit to professional journals.

We are pleased to say that the research was chosen to be featured on this month’s cover of Technologies.

Here is part of the summary (SRP = Solar Road Panel):

To use SRP in public roads, engineering tests including freeze/thaw, moisture absorption, heavy vehicle, and shear testing were accomplished on “SR3” prototypes. Testing was performed at Marquette University in the Engineering Materials and Structural Testing Laboratory and the SR Pilot Project area. Moisture absorption and freeze/thaw tests showed “SR3” resistant to extreme weather and moisture environments. Heavy vehicle testing revealed no physical damage to the “SR3” after approximately 989,457 equivalent single axle loads were continuously rolled over a prototype pavement. Overall, the results show “SR3” prototypes to be robust, resilient, and functional when subjected to “real-world” test conditions.

Article: https://www.mdpi.com/2227-7080/8/1/9/htm

These results bode very well for Solar Road Panels to be used for our ultimate goal: highways. However, we are going to continue with our original plan to install first on what we call “non-critical surfaces”, i.e. driveways, parking lots, sidewalks, bike paths etc. We think it’s smarter to work up to highways gradually, learning and performing any needed tweaks along the way.

It’s time to make the world a greener and safer place for us all.

After the Corona Crisis is resolved and it’s safe to travel once again, we’ll be ready to install panels in Baltimore and other places. If you have a project you would like to be considered for one of the first SR installations, please email to be on our Notification List: Customers@SolarRoadways.com

If you would like to become a certified SR Distributor/Installer, please email: Distributors@SolarRoadways.com

If you have expertise that relates to SR or a related area and would like to join our informal group of Advisors, please contact: Julie@SolarRoadways.com 
—-
Engineering Tests to Evaluate the Feasibility of an Emerging Solar Pavement Technology for Public Roads and Highways
https://www.mdpi.com/2227-7080/8/1/9/htm
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interstitial

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Re: Solar Roadways
« Reply #424 on: April 13, 2020, 07:32:45 AM »
What about heavy vehicles with chains? wasnt it something like that tore up the road in Europe?

KiwiGriff

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Re: Solar Roadways
« Reply #425 on: April 13, 2020, 10:04:52 AM »
Cost sq meter.
Due to the engineering required to support traffic It will always be cheaper to build solar over a road than on it .
This is before even considering  roads are horizontal along with the shading effects of traffic and dirt so have poor efficiency as solar collectors .
Solar roads are a  waste of money the effort is better spent elsewhere on viable solutions. 
Animals can be driven crazy by placing too many in too small a pen. Homo sapiens is the only animal that voluntarily does this to himself.
Notebooks of Lazarus Long.
Robert Heinlein.

TerryM

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Re: Solar Roadways
« Reply #426 on: April 13, 2020, 12:21:50 PM »
^^
Raman!!
Terry

Sigmetnow

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Re: Solar Roadways
« Reply #427 on: April 13, 2020, 04:01:03 PM »
Cost sq meter.
Due to the engineering required to support traffic It will always be cheaper to build solar over a road than on it .
This is before even considering  roads are horizontal along with the shading effects of traffic and dirt so have poor efficiency as solar collectors .
Solar roads are a  waste of money the effort is better spent elsewhere on viable solutions.

First, there are the non-highway uses:
Quote
These results bode very well for Solar Road Panels to be used for our ultimate goal: highways. However, we are going to continue with our original plan to install first on what we call “non-critical surfaces”, i.e. driveways, parking lots, sidewalks, bike paths etc. We think it’s smarter to work up to highways gradually, learning and performing any needed tweaks along the way.

Second, this ignores all the other benefits of the product — it’s not just a solar panel!  Complaining that the solar energy gathered will be less than optimal is like saying a cell phone will never be a good idea because the battery doesn’t last a day with hard use, therefore the entire idea is worthless.

Third, edge cases where a solar road may not work are not an argument against cases where it will work.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2020, 04:24:33 PM by Sigmetnow »
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