Ryden Battery

[jai mitchell]

http://cleantechnica.com/2014/05/21/ryden-organic-recyclable-cotton-battery/

The Ryden battery recharges 20X faster than its lithium based cousins. It lasts through many thousands of discharge cycles. It does not run at high temperatures, so no cooling system is required. All its components are organic and recyclable. Most importantly of all though, it should be cheaper than lithium-ion batteries once full-scale production begins.

apparently this new carbon battery uses very little rare elements, this would allow for mass production of grid-scale battery systems that would be used in conjunction with the intermittent sources of solar and wind energy and allow these renewable sources to be the sole sources of power in future generations.

they have an identical power density as lithium-ion batteries but with a charging time on the order of 12 minutes vs. the typical 4 hours needed to charge the Nissan LEAF car battery.

combining this technology with mid-lane charging capability and electric vehicles will have an unlimited driving range.

when batteries are fully discharged and then re-charged they experience a higher level of breakdown and they lose their useful life much quicker.  These batteries have a much better response to full-discharge/recharge cycle stresses.

using mid-lane charging, while the vehicle is operating will allow for these batteries to only fully discharge very rarely, increasing their effective lifetime by 10X.



Power Japan Plus will begin benchmark production of 18650 Ryden cells later this year at the company’s production facility in Okinawa, Japan. This facility will allow the company to meet demand for specialty energy storage markets such as medical devices and satellites. For larger demand industries, such as electric vehicles, Power Japan Plus will operate under a licensing business model, providing technology and expertise to existing battery manufacturers to produce the Ryden battery.

here is the video of the battery:



These are potent claims, from a startup company.  It is not clear if this is real but benchmark performance testing is supposedly starting this year.   We shall see.

[Neven]

The name of the battery reminds me of this song (also from Japan!):



 

[JayW]

With Tesla set to break ground in the coming months for their gigafactory, a battery making facility, that as proposed will equal the current production of lithium ion batteries.  I'm sure Elon Musk will thoroughly investigate this technology.  I'll be looking at what he has to say on the matter.

[ghoti]

Limiting factor for battery charging times is not the battery at this point. The ability to deliver high wattage is. The Tesla 85kwh LiIon battery can already be charged 80% in 30 minutes. Go ahead, calculate the kW delivery required to do that! There is a reason why Tesla calls them Superchargers.

In North America no house comes with circuits with higher than 220V and the highest amp fuses for these circuits are 40A but the continuous current you can push through these would be around 33amps.

People have started to install chargers that use two of these circuits combined but the charge times on those is still more limited by supply current than the LiIon battery's ability to accept the charge.

So although I'm excited to hear about new better battery types the problem isn't charge time at this stage - the issue is weight and price.

[jai mitchell]

Good Point Ghoti!

Just another reason why multiple-source circuits to a plug and play wireless charging pad is going to be the technology of the future.  I hadn't figured in the obvious wiring restrictions for higher charge capability.  I read somewhere that excessive use of supercharging reduced the expected life of the Li-ion battery. 

maybe that was incorrect?

[JimD]

......
In North America no house comes with circuits with higher than 220V and the highest amp fuses for these circuits are 40A but the continuous current you can push through these would be around 33amps.

........

Actually 50 amps is more common than 40 and 60 amps is common on larger houses (my house in Virginia had 200 amp service and two 60 amp breakers and two 50 amp breakers).  Since 200 amp service is pretty much the norm at the power poles and 320 in some areas amperage is not the issue.  220V is the normal highest delivered residentially but in many areas that could easily be exceeded also as the line power in the area is much higher.

[Bruce Steele]

Depending on where you live ,I suppose,you could have the utilities provide you with a three phase drop off the grid and really crank some power to your recharger. If you can afford a Tesla the cost shouldn't be too large a barrier. Three phase also allows the possibility of long power runs to your solar panel field or wind turbine. Three phase is currently available for wind turbines. It probably can be used on large solar arrays also. I realize these aren't options for everyone but small coops or businesses might be able to utilize them for private charging systems. My farm has a three phase drop and my wells are three phase pumps. This isn't unusual for farm utilities. If electric vehicles begin to make large headway into markets private recharging stations may also be in our future. If electric tractors ever come to market it is going to take some serious amps to keep them running.
 I don't know if small private utilities are currently being designed in the U.S. but as public infrastructure investments become more costly and undependable it seems the wealthy may begin to opt out for other options. I know there are already large generators at private homes for the occasional blackouts that hit the grid. Population growth, declining infrastructure investment and extreme heat waves will in combination incentivize more private generators for sure and potentially they will also promote new renewable options also. Who wants a 10, 20, or 30 million dollar house where the air conditioner doesn't work ? Snark
     

[ghoti]

I haven't seen such high amp circuits but likely they are needed to run huge air conditioning loads. As it gets hotter up north we'll likely more of it here unless the price of ground sourced heat pumps drops enough to increase the market penetration.

I'd actually like to see building codes updated here to require high amp, EV charger ready circuits for all new construction. Not likely to happen though.

[sidd]

We should probable have a new thread for electrical supply and wiring but briefly: when you price out  getting electric including breakers, equipment and ancillary, it very quickly makes sense to get the highest voltage on as many phases as your equipment can handle. If you can take (in the usa) 33Kv on 3 phases Mr Electric loves you, you get electric for much less than the cost of financing on the transformer, and all kindsa creative timeofday and VAR options for reactive load. This also make sense for you when you want to backfeed the grid, say with a giant windmill or five At that point  Mr. Electric loves you so much less since you want to backfeed but can't whine that he don't have capacity. He will whine about other things, I'm sure.

sidd

[Jim Hunt]

See also some more Japanese research results - "Synthesis of rock-salt type lithium borohydride and its peculiar Li+ ion conduction properties":

http://dx.doi.org/10.1063/1.4876638

We develop a new method for the fabrication of a solid electrolyte using LiBH4, known for its super Li+ ion conduction without any grain boundary contribution.

The obtained sample was shown to be a pure Li+ conductor despite its small Li+ content. This conduction mechanism, where the light doping cation played a major role in ion conduction, was termed the “Parasitic Conduction Mechanism.” This mechanism made it possible to synthesize a new ion conductor and is expected to have enormous potential in the search for new battery materials.

[JayW]

Perhaps I trust Elon Musk too much, but he has made bold claims and delivered. And he seems like he's one of the few visionary businessmen challenging the status quo.  If there is a better battery, this guy will know about it.

David, the shareholder who asked the question, referred specifically to the recent outlandish claims from Power Japan Plus about its Ryden dual-carbon battery. Not the first major battery breakthrough to make headlines, I warned investors that the news should be taken with a grain of salt and that it was possibly a fluke. Indeed, Musk seemed to suggest that the breakthrough wasn't legit. No one who has made claims of battery breakthroughs, he says, has ever sent him a sample cell upon request.

http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2014/06/05/tesla-motors-inc-may-have-better-batteries-in-its.aspx

[jai mitchell]

Jay,

you are absolutely right, it seemed to be too good to be true and when I found the company was seeking investors I became very skeptical.  Still, it is a good thing to hope for.

Better batteries has now become a national security issue:

http://www.jcesr.org/jcesr-and-nasa-team-up-to-conduct-research-for-next-generation-batteries-to-be-used-in-space/

Argonne, Ill., Cleveland, Ohio, March 19, 2014 – The DOE Joint Center for Energy Storage Research (JCESR) and NASA Glenn Research Center are collaborating to develop next generation batteries for use in future space missions.

The coordinated effort announced today combines JCESR’s deep knowledge of the basic science in energy storage research with NASA Glenn’s expertise engineering battery technologies with aerospace applications. JCESR and NASA Glenn intend to perform the required research so that NASA can identify promising technologies to develop, test and build prototypes for use in NASA missions for planetary exploration.

[JayW]

Jai,
    Very sorry for coming off as so dismissive. Full disclosure, I own a few shares of Tesla so I'm always hoping they are on the cutting edge of battery technology.  But I understand being blinded by optimism.  Until this battery chemistry gets independently tested, I'll be keeping tabs on it, it could still hold promise.

   I strongly agree that energy storage is vital going forward.  As the power grid is ever ageing, and our thirst for limitless energy at or fingertips seems unquenchable, being able to store power at the household level would forever change the power grid in my opinion.  Tesla is already supplying SolarCity with battery packs (although only in a few California locations) that couple with photovoltaic panels for backup power, when there is no sun and to get off the grid. This is the future in my opinion.

  In my home state of Maine, the power transmission company is trying to charge a "standby" few to people who are net-metering during the times they don't need to draw from the grid.  A lame attempt to reduce the amount they pay to people who are feeding the grid with power from their pv panels.

  An Israeli company named Phinergy has been developing metal-air batteries.  I believe Tesla is also experimenting with this technology.  From my very meager understanding, these batteries are difficult to charge and degrade in far fewer charging cycles. But hold promise.
http://phys.org/news/2013-03-phinergy-aluminum-air-battery-capable-fueling.html


 The other area that could hold promise is the super capacitor.  Perhaps one day, a car can be charged by plugging in the capacitor, drive off, and the car can charge while driving.

[icefest]

  An Israeli company named Phinergy has been developing metal-air batteries.  I believe Tesla is also experimenting with this technology.  From my very meager understanding, these batteries are difficult to charge and degrade in far fewer charging cycles. But hold promise.

The crazy thing about metal air is that they release elemental oxygen when charging, making ventilation increasingly important.

[Jim Hunt]

Grid scale storage doesn't necessarily have to be "batteries". See for example "pumped heat":

http://www.v2g.co.uk/2012/06/isentropic-and-western-power-to-test-pumped-heat-electricity-storage/

and "liquid air":

http://www.v2g.co.uk/2012/10/liquid-nitrogen-storage-as-well-as-electric-cars/