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Author Topic: Short to Medium Term Arctic Sea Ice Conditions Discussion  (Read 669257 times)

slow wing

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Arctic sea ice conditions in coming days and weeks
« Reply #50 on: April 07, 2013, 03:13:46 AM »
This is a very interesting discussion, thanks BornFromTheVoid. Could I suggest a more specific thread title, such as the heading for this post?

ChrisReynolds

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Re: Short to Medium Term Arctic Sea Ice Conditions Discussion
« Reply #51 on: April 07, 2013, 09:01:32 AM »
Insolation levels are now at the level they are in August, so melt in the peripheral seas outside the Arctic is to be expected. I am not convinced that in this melt we're seeing anything unusual in the context of the past few years.

However the current dipole between North Pacific lows and the central Arctic high are drawing in warmer air, temperatures over Beaufort only around -10degC. This will retard ice thickening in the fractures significantly.

johnm33

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Re: Short to Medium Term Arctic Sea Ice Conditions Discussion
« Reply #52 on: April 08, 2013, 12:38:28 PM »
With the moon moving north from now to the 16th and the new moon on the 10th i expect an increase of energy carried in on tidal surges through Bering. That should trash the ice all the way from Barrow to Lincoln, whether it will stay open, since the sun lacks the power to melt the snow on the slate roof in the foreground of the barrow webcam, depends on just how much heat gets expressed by the event itself, and local weather conditions. And although unlikely i wouldn't be suprised by a breakthrough at Nares or the NWP before mon. next.

TerryM

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Re: Short to Medium Term Arctic Sea Ice Conditions Discussion
« Reply #53 on: April 08, 2013, 07:39:23 PM »
John


Spring tide usually lags the new moon or the full moon by ~2 days. The greatest tidal differences should be on the 12th, then again on the 27th.


Things get a little strange around Nares where tidal forces seem to get a bit out of phase coming around Greenland on different paths.


I've definitely seen a correlation between the breakup of fast ice and spring tides & would expect something similar with the cracks even though there may not be a direct connection between land and ice in this case.


Terry

Chuck Yokota

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Re: Short to Medium Term Arctic Sea Ice Conditions Discussion
« Reply #54 on: April 12, 2013, 10:55:06 PM »
It looks like the arch in the Nares Strait has retreated about 5 km today, from ice breaking away.

Jim Williams

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Re: Short to Medium Term Arctic Sea Ice Conditions Discussion
« Reply #55 on: April 13, 2013, 06:30:16 PM »
I'm having a lot of trouble reconciling what this has to say with everything else, especially in the Canadian Archipelago.  Any reason to believe that there's a significant section of the channels with only 75% ice?

Neven

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Re: Short to Medium Term Arctic Sea Ice Conditions Discussion
« Reply #56 on: April 13, 2013, 07:34:15 PM »
Ignore changing colours on the UB SIC maps, unless they're persistent for a couple of days.
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Jim Williams

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Re: Short to Medium Term Arctic Sea Ice Conditions Discussion
« Reply #57 on: April 13, 2013, 07:50:22 PM »
How many of a couple of days?  I've been pondering this for a bit now.

Neven

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Re: Short to Medium Term Arctic Sea Ice Conditions Discussion
« Reply #58 on: April 13, 2013, 09:22:50 PM »
If my short-term memory serves me correctly, the orange was there in the CAA on April 11th, gone yesterday, back today...

Very high probability it doesn't mean a thing, especially around this time in the CAA. After three days of persistent colouring in the same place I'd raise my eyebrow, after 4-5 days I'd consider saying something about it on the blog. But in the meantime I'd check a (preferably cloudless) LANCE-MODIS to be sure.
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gfwellman

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Re: Short to Medium Term Arctic Sea Ice Conditions Discussion
« Reply #59 on: April 13, 2013, 09:25:06 PM »
How many of a couple of days?
  Neven beat me to it, but I'd say the answer is "until you can verify it with a MODIS visible spectrum image."

Laurent

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Re: Short to Medium Term Arctic Sea Ice Conditions Discussion
« Reply #60 on: April 13, 2013, 09:30:48 PM »
There is no time limit, that depends where you look at !
The North west passage will be open this year again that is sure !
Personally I am looking at the open area and see how do they evolve!
Like here : http://earthdata.nasa.gov/labs/worldview/

crandles

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Re: Short to Medium Term Arctic Sea Ice Conditions Discussion
« Reply #61 on: April 14, 2013, 10:46:49 PM »
It looks like the arch in the Nares Strait has retreated about 5 km today, from ice breaking away.

It hardly deserves the term 'arch' at the moment. Can an irregular shape like we have now have any strength?

Is it bound to collapse and, if so, any guesses when? Within a couple of weeks? A Month? 2 months?

gfwellman

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Re: Short to Medium Term Arctic Sea Ice Conditions Discussion
« Reply #62 on: April 15, 2013, 01:05:14 AM »
The arch hasn't really reached the northern half - the narrow half - Nares Strait yet.  It's still in Kane Basin.  The basin is going to break up soon but that doesn't say that much about north of the basin.

Neven

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Re: Short to Medium Term Arctic Sea Ice Conditions Discussion
« Reply #63 on: April 15, 2013, 01:34:39 PM »
It looks like the arch in the Nares Strait has retreated about 5 km today, from ice breaking away.

It hardly deserves the term 'arch' at the moment. Can an irregular shape like we have now have any strength?

Is it bound to collapse and, if so, any guesses when? Within a couple of weeks? A Month? 2 months?

I believe Nares Expert Andreas Münchow has said June/July. In the previous two melting seasons I thought it would be earlier, but you'd be amazed at how long such an ice arch can hold out.
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Arctic Map
« Reply #64 on: April 23, 2013, 06:20:56 PM »
I'm working on Arctic forecast maps with a special focus on sea ice, below you'll see first draft. The maps should be as minimalist as possible, as I find other maps overloaded and sometimes even eye cancer stimulating. The model outputs data for 3h intervals, which results in 64 maps for an eight day forecast. Beyond that GFS appears to be too erratic. I want to keep door open to produce animated gifs, another use case asking for minimal information. So far I've figured two sets are needed, one for temperature, pressure and extreme wind, plus another one related to clouds, radiation and heat fluxes - precipitation and SST are still an open issue.

Below is the first set with GFS data from this morning. Temp2m contours are color filled with solid lines every 10°C, the 0°C contour is marked. SLP is dotted every 10hpa, some highs and lows are indicated. Wind barbs appear only above 6Bft or 10.8m/s.

The goal is to have all weather information needed to answer yourself: What will happen to the ice in the next 8 days? I thought, I ask here to get feedback from someone answering this question more often than me. What do you think, am I close? I like feedback!

In case you are curious, what parameters are available in the 1° model, here the list: http://nomads.ncep.noaa.gov:9090/dods/gfs/gfs20130423/gfs_06z




Btw: next week the 0°C line touches the ice edge in the basin.

Neven

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Re: Short to Medium Term Arctic Sea Ice Conditions Discussion
« Reply #65 on: April 24, 2013, 12:24:14 AM »
Wow, impressive, Arcticio. Very appealing visually.

I only use weather maps to look at the distribution of highs and lows, because that tells me a bit about which way the wind is blowing. Relating to that, and if it doesn't lessen the visual appeal, how about adding a couple more isobars?
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anonymous

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Re: Short to Medium Term Arctic Sea Ice Conditions Discussion
« Reply #66 on: April 24, 2013, 02:21:44 AM »
Thanks, Neven. I've started without isobars, because 2 sets of lines (press, temp) animated looks, well, confusing, because continuation is lost. Even images just 3h apart look completely different and the animation does not appear smooth. Especially in winter, when the sun moves around visibly. But, at any case the next GAC should be clearly visible.

I want to avoid as much translation by the user as possible, the step: There is a H, how does the wind rotates, and what is the resulting drift, could all be pre-calculated and visualized on the map. A weather map should show umbrellas instead of rain drops. :)

But if you say wind is interesting, aren't you actually missing wind barbs? On the other hand there is still the option to directly show projected ice drift, you remember? (Grumbine)


Artful Dodger

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Re: Short to Medium Term Arctic Sea Ice Conditions Discussion
« Reply #67 on: April 24, 2013, 04:20:02 AM »
I want to avoid as much translation by the user as possible
Hi arcticio,

Thanks for all your hard work. You're producing an excellent product already!

One thing I'd like to see is the inclusion of more atmospheric layers beyond just the surface conditions. In Winter, the surface layer is typically only warmed to a height of 1000 m, leaving a colder drier atmosphere above 900 mb.

Then, as you recall the GAC12 event involved a deep mid-level depression at the 500 mb (5,000m level). It's one of the ways we diagnosed GAC12 as a cold-core cyclone. Continuing up, the Polar Night jet stream occurs at about 25 km altitude, and SSW events occur at 10mbar (over 30 km alt).

So I'd like to see at least 5 layers in this stack: Surface pressure, 900 mb, 500 mb, 100 mb, and 10 mb.  :D

I'd suggest an animated map might be an interesting way to view this stack, but I leave it to you if you wish to experiment with ways of presenting this data.

Thanks again for all your hard work!
« Last Edit: April 24, 2013, 04:28:13 AM by Artful Dodger »
Cheers!
Lodger

crandles

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Re: Short to Medium Term Arctic Sea Ice Conditions Discussion
« Reply #68 on: April 24, 2013, 12:54:19 PM »
Nice Work.

Just wondering: It is easier to follow solid lines than the dotted lines. Temperature lines follow colour contours as an additional aid to following them. So would it be better to have dashed or dotted lines for temperature contours and solid lines for pressure?

0C line was marked but a couple more such markings and/or different colour might help find this.

Land border is clear from temperature profile, but will this always be the case?

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Re: Arctic Map
« Reply #69 on: April 24, 2013, 01:53:48 PM »
the 0°C contour is marked.

What temperature does the sea water melt at?  Wouldn't this be a better contour than 0?  (I want to say -10, but.....)

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Re: Short to Medium Term Arctic Sea Ice Conditions Discussion
« Reply #70 on: April 24, 2013, 02:36:49 PM »
Thanks, that's a lot.

Jim, it is around 1.8 degrees Celsius, depending on salt concentration, but is mostly within the 1° spatial resolution of GFS. Thought 0°C is less confusing.

Artful, you're asking for a 4D map, have only two dimensions. Actually started a  4D thing a while ago, but web technology isn't that common or do you know WebGL?, ok may be you, but other don't. And have to ask: What happens at 10hpa having impact on ice?

Crandles, good point, I'll swap dotted and solid lines and make 0°C more prominent. And the palette should have better segments.

Generally, I do no want to replicate wetterzentrale maps. It should be a new and unique sea ice product, more close to the point.

Neven

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Re: Short to Medium Term Arctic Sea Ice Conditions Discussion
« Reply #71 on: April 24, 2013, 03:38:42 PM »
But if you say wind is interesting, aren't you actually missing wind barbs?

I still don't know how to interpret those. Do those F's emulate the sound of the wind blowing? Fffffff....  ;D

Quote
On the other hand there is still the option to directly show projected ice drift, you remember? (Grumbine)

That might make it more confusing, depending on how you visualize the drift.
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anonymous

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Re: Short to Medium Term Arctic Sea Ice Conditions Discussion
« Reply #72 on: April 24, 2013, 05:28:23 PM »
One full flag is slightly below 6BFT, 'Large branches in motion. Whistling heard in overhead wires. Umbrella use becomes difficult. Empty plastic bins tip over.'



PhilGChapman

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Re: Short to Medium Term Arctic Sea Ice Conditions Discussion
« Reply #73 on: April 24, 2013, 05:38:35 PM »
I agree with crandles' analysis, but not necessarily the solutions. I think having both isotherms and isobars is too confusing, making sense of the fainter dotted line depends upon what else is going on in that region of the map.

I would eliminate the the isotherms and use only the colour graded contour plot for temperature, including a clear legend. If you want to highlight the 0C isotherm perhaps makes this the transition between the greens and blues?

But I agree that currently existing Arctic weather maps are generally appalling, and applaud your efforts.

ChrisReynolds

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Re: Short to Medium Term Arctic Sea Ice Conditions Discussion
« Reply #74 on: April 24, 2013, 07:10:50 PM »
Lodger,

It's not common practice to look at pressure at various layers of the atmosphere. It's generally done as height at which the atmosphere is at a certain pressure, which is termed geopotential height.

Arcticio,

Very neat looking. As someone said showing land boundaries is vital for orientation.

If your looking to make an ice-centred presentation, is it possible that you could get away with less data? I didn't get the reference to Grumbine, w.r.t. ice movement does someone have ice movement data on a daily basis, or could ice movement be easily calculated? What do we need to look at ice?

Winds (ice movement and air movement - whether air is cold or warm).
....Ice movement.
....Air advection, e.g. dipole anomalies
Ocean temperature.
....Warmed ocean interaction with ice edge.

I'm wondering if pressure is actually needed, does Rob Grumbine know how to calculate ice motion from pressure fields?

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Re: Short to Medium Term Arctic Sea Ice Conditions Discussion
« Reply #75 on: April 25, 2013, 12:51:47 AM »
Chris, projected drift data is available here: http://nomads.ncep.noaa.gov/pub/data/nccf/com/omb/prod/

and here much of the data in action: http://www.arctic.io/observations/520///ice-drift The numbers keys 1-6 give you days of forecast. '0' put the thing into a loop.

I don't remember the format details by heart and looking at the code doesn't help either. What I remember is, it actually consists of two different data sets, the gridded one is used at arctic.io. But have a look at the paper: Virtual Floe Ice Drift Forecast Model Intercomparison

Grumbine wrote me the model is not exceptional clever, it just applies a formula fed with latitude and wind speed/direction. If it still applies to 'free floating' floes, I do not know.

I understand isobars need to be rethought, one point is sea ice doesn't interfere with pressure, the other is they are a good guide to the situation at a synoptic scale. If I might drop them, I tend to introduce fluxes instead, w/m² is a very interesting unit.

Currently I'm trying to interpolate the data to get more steps/images. That might help to make the animation more smooth. (Jumping numbers are not appealing...)

Has anybody sympathy with the idea showing projected 2m temps over land and SST over water(no forecast, just analysis)?

Artful Dodger

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Re: Short to Medium Term Arctic Sea Ice Conditions Discussion
« Reply #76 on: April 25, 2013, 04:15:32 AM »
What happens at 10hpa having impact on ice?
Hi arcticio,

10 hpa (100,000+ feet) is the geopotential height of SSW events. They *may* be related to the breakdown of the Polar Night Jet stream, which if proved could be a major factor responsible for the WACCy weather (Warm Arctic Cold Continents) phenomena observed since 2007.

WebGL is fine for me. Scientific visualization is the goal ;)
Cheers!
Lodger

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Re: Short to Medium Term Arctic Sea Ice Conditions Discussion
« Reply #77 on: April 25, 2013, 07:27:52 AM »
What happens at 10hpa having impact on ice?
10 hpa (100,000+ feet) is the geopotential height of SSW events. They *may* be related to the breakdown of the Polar Night Jet stream, which if proved could be a major factor responsible for the WACCy weather (Warm Arctic Cold Continents) phenomena observed since 2007.

WebGL is fine for me. Scientific visualization is the goal ;)

Sure, from a climate point of view you're right and if a SSW happens you might expect a cloud free 1060hpa SLP region within the Arctic soon, however the medium term impact on the ice is rather teeny, or can you show me SSW drops in PIOMAS or area?

WebGL, yup, a fantastic technology and I have a GFS/PIOMAS project 80% ready lying on my harddisk [screenshot]. Unfortunately the developer has no longer time, any ideas?

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Re: Short to Medium Term Arctic Sea Ice Conditions Discussion
« Reply #78 on: April 25, 2013, 11:09:36 AM »
however the medium term impact on the ice is rather teeny, or can you show me SSW drops in PIOMAS or area?
Hi arcticio,

Does the pebble kicked off the top of a mountain, which starts an avalanche, have a teeny effect? ANYTHING that causes the polar vortex to break down ENDS the Arctic ocean, and extends the Atlantic by 14,000 km2:P

WebGL, yup, a fantastic technology and I have a GFS/PIOMAS project 80% ready... any ideas?
Short answer: multiple layers defined in a .kmz file for display in Google Earth. The time-series animations are already build-in, and the .kmz can point to the source data on the web.

However, I'm not that keen on just reproducing PIOMAS. I'll let some Grad student do that as his or her Masters project. PIOMAS does not distinguish between FYI/MYI, and therefore gets the thermodynamics wrong by at least 10%. Mechanical strength in shear / compression is another big difference between FYI/MYI, as attested by the massive Feb/Mar 2013 cracking event over the entire FYI area in the Central basin. Choosing an average value between FYI and MYI means both domains will be poorly modeled.  ::)

So I believe PIOMAS is getting the volume increase wrong for Feb/Mar 2013. Slabbing/thickening is a process that happens mostly with MYI, which is hard enough to resist the pressure from a wind-driven impact by another massive ice floe. FYI just spreads more when pushed, rather than resist. Look how the MYI domain has pushed into the Beaufort sea during this time period. There's been quite a few recent papers on sea ice rheology, and there are real differences.

I therefore believe PIOMAS will be of minimal value as a predictive tool come the final days of the Summer sea ice. To wit, in Aug 2012, the system was still predicting 4.3 m km2 as the Sep SIE. Statistical models were much closer to NSIDC's final monthly value for September.

Ideas? Many. What in particular are you trying to solve? How to make more time? My uncle Albert would have been a better fellow to ask, but there's this much younger guy named Stephen up in Cambridge... ;)
« Last Edit: April 25, 2013, 11:20:33 AM by Artful Dodger »
Cheers!
Lodger

Neven

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Re: Short to Medium Term Arctic Sea Ice Conditions Discussion
« Reply #79 on: April 25, 2013, 10:44:21 PM »
I don't know about you guys, but I'm starting to look at the ECMWF forecast maps a bit more every week. I think insolation will play a very big role if it gets the chance. Maybe next week or so we could have clear skies over the Beaufort. I think that will mean rock 'n roll.

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Re: Short to Medium Term Arctic Sea Ice Conditions Discussion
« Reply #80 on: April 25, 2013, 11:28:46 PM »
A little update: sea ice contour has higher resolution, may need thicker lines, palette highlights the 0°C threshold. Colorbar looks a bit trippy, needs some more work. Maps are 8 days apart, data is from today 12h run. It is getting warmer, but not at my home town :(



Neven, I believe it is still to cold for ice floes dancing R 'n' R. Quite a difference, GFS vs. ECWMF with 8 days fcst, right?

Artful, we have checked the Google Earth option, the conclusion was potentially more users with webgl and more importantly, the 4D interface would have needed native development - GE Plus is far too expensive. PIOMAS might also get local radiation wrong, because it relies at GFS doing this right. I expect some more light on this before October and a PM from SH from Cambridge :)

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Re: Short to Medium Term Arctic Sea Ice Conditions Discussion
« Reply #81 on: April 25, 2013, 11:55:22 PM »
A little update: sea ice contour has higher resolution, may need thicker lines, ........

For those of us born in the first half of the last century, it would help to have thicker lines around the land features.  Even though I'm becoming quite familiar with the geography of the Arctic Region, my aging eyes are having trouble finding the boundaries between the land and the ocean.
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Re: Short to Medium Term Arctic Sea Ice Conditions Discussion
« Reply #82 on: April 26, 2013, 12:12:42 AM »
A little update: sea ice contour has higher resolution, may need thicker lines, ........

For those of us born in the first half of the last century, it would help to have thicker lines around the land features.  Even though I'm becoming quite familiar with the geography of the Arctic Region, my aging eyes are having trouble finding the boundaries between the land and the ocean.

Could you give a concrete example of a difficult region. I understand your problem, give me a chance to think about other options.

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Re: Short to Medium Term Arctic Sea Ice Conditions Discussion
« Reply #83 on: April 26, 2013, 05:18:08 AM »
well, i don't have an eyesight problem, but if it wasn't for the familiar outline of Ireland/UK/Scandanavia in the foreground, it wouldn't have been immediately obvious that the land/sea boundary was even being indicated. once you know what to look for you can just about follow the coastline around, if you know more or less know where it goes already, but it's not obvious.

probably depends who you are creating this for, if it's for specialists then there's no problem, but a broader audience will definitely struggle

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Re: Short to Medium Term Arctic Sea Ice Conditions Discussion
« Reply #84 on: April 26, 2013, 06:28:20 AM »
Artful, we have checked the Google Earth option, the conclusion was potentially more users with webgl...

I expect some more light on this before October and a PM from SH from Cambridge :)
Hi Arcticio,

Good that you've checked G.E. I'm not a real big fan since it doesn't support imported vector overlays ;)

More light in October, just head South! But at this rate, we might be writing a new book, "A short history of Arctic sea ice".  :'(
Cheers!
Lodger

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Re: Short to Medium Term Arctic Sea Ice Conditions Discussion
« Reply #85 on: April 26, 2013, 08:42:49 AM »
... if it wasn't for the familiar outline of Ireland/UK/Scandanavia in the foreground, it wouldn't have been immediately obvious that the land/sea boundary was even being indicated. once you know what to look for you can just about follow the coastline around, if you know more or less know where it goes already, but it's not obvious.

probably depends who you are creating this for, if it's for specialists then there's no problem, but a broader audience will definitely struggle
Well, people just starting to study sea ice having never seen a Northern Hemisphere map with 0° south are definitely not the audience. Teaching that mental projection has to happen elsewhere. That's why I use same avatar everywhere in the Internet.

I know it is an issue, because I still feel clusters of neurons at work when looking at a Japanese NH map with 180° south. May be it helps to spend the North pole at little mark.

The only tip I have is get familiar with Greenland's shape, it is an outstanding feature on all NH maps whatever the topic is. From there make your way all around the basin.

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Re: Short to Medium Term Arctic Sea Ice Conditions Discussion
« Reply #86 on: April 26, 2013, 10:22:42 AM »
oh sure. i do know what the arctic looks like. but in the case of greenland, for example, with all the information close to the coastline (white/black line/colour changes) it's really not that easy to make out the land-sea boundary, unless it coincides with the ice edge. could you shade the continents slightly darker, or does that create other problems?

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Re: Short to Medium Term Arctic Sea Ice Conditions Discussion
« Reply #87 on: April 26, 2013, 02:39:58 PM »
Back to back area centuries. Looks like compaction rather than melt in Barents with more compaction to come.

2013.3069  -0.2430956  12.7934523  13.0365477
2013.3096  -0.3252518  12.6753159  13.0005674
2013.3124  -0.3962290  12.5647573  12.9609861


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Re: Short to Medium Term Arctic Sea Ice Conditions Discussion
« Reply #88 on: April 26, 2013, 03:06:05 PM »
sofouuk, the resolution of the data is 1° = 111km in N-S direction, it won't tell you whether there 10°C or 12°C in Nuuk, buf if Greenland reports again 95% surface melting, that'll be clearly visible upfront. I see it his way, if the coastline is invisible because of other lines, well, then it is exactly below the other lines. What I don't want are two color bars demanded because of different shades.

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Re: Short to Medium Term Arctic Sea Ice Conditions Discussion
« Reply #89 on: April 27, 2013, 05:00:41 PM »
<i> it would help to have thicker lines around the land features.</i>

I agree that a more visible outline of the land would help. I've lurked here for about a year and have a very difficult time picking out features.

anonymous

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Re: Short to Medium Term Arctic Sea Ice Conditions Discussion
« Reply #90 on: April 27, 2013, 05:17:14 PM »
Features like...?

DaveHitz

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Re: Short to Medium Term Arctic Sea Ice Conditions Discussion
« Reply #91 on: April 27, 2013, 07:09:23 PM »
I'm sorry Arcticio, I am also struggling to see the land versus water, even though I've been an avid arctic lurker for several years now. (Since the 2007 crash.) It feels like one of those optical illusion things, where some people see the image immediately, and others just struggle.

You asked "features like...?" in response to someone saying they struggled to spot features.

It's features like ... anything! There are so many lines, I can't figure out which ones are land/sea edges. Or is it a color transition that marks it? I'm looking at solid lines, dotted lines, color transitions and -- embarrassingly -- I just don't see land at all. No Greenland, no Bering Strait, no Banks Island. (And I feel like a bit of an idiot admitting this.)

Maybe a key would help. What is the difference between dark lines, light grey lines, white lines, and dotted lines? I'm definitely not a ice or weather scientist, but also not a rank neophyte.

Dave

ChrisReynolds

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Re: Short to Medium Term Arctic Sea Ice Conditions Discussion
« Reply #92 on: April 27, 2013, 09:46:06 PM »
I think the white line demarking land are fine. However I do spend a lot of time looking at various projections of the arctic from different angles, I see that Arcticio has used the prime meridian as the baseline for the projection, the Americans seem to like Greenland, and I've seen Russian plots centred on somewhere in Siberia.

Peter Ellis

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Re: Short to Medium Term Arctic Sea Ice Conditions Discussion
« Reply #93 on: April 27, 2013, 11:49:34 PM »
I think the white line demarking land are fine.
A perfect illustration of the problem, since the white line doesn't demarcate land!  I have no idea what it does show - possibly the ice edge?  Land appears to be marked out by some kind of colour variation in that it looks a few degrees hotter than the surrounding sea (check out Britain at the middle/bottom of the pic).  I have no idea if that's done artificially with a land mask, or whether it genuinely reflects the land temperature relative to the sea temperature. I suspect the latter, which means that in the high Arctic where there are no clear-cut temperature differences between sea and land at the moment, you have absolutely no waypoints to help orient you and let you get your bearings.  This needs a lot of work on usability.

anonymous

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Re: Short to Medium Term Arctic Sea Ice Conditions Discussion
« Reply #94 on: April 28, 2013, 12:43:45 AM »
Peter, may I remember you, I'm not a service provider and you are not a client. If you want maps according to your definition of usability send me money. Productive critics are welcome and a cooperative attitude motivates and leads to progress, your last post lacks both.

sofouuk

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Re: Short to Medium Term Arctic Sea Ice Conditions Discussion
« Reply #95 on: April 28, 2013, 03:05:43 AM »
arcticio, in general your map looks, and is, great, although im happy to see that im not the only one who struggled a bit the first time they looked at it ::) and im definitely in favour of you sticking with the prime meridian

im guessing Peter Ellis is wrong and that the land is 'artificially' highlighted. as you're using a white (... it does indicate the ice edge, right?) and dark lines already i don't think adding another line to pick out the coastline would be a good idea at all. well, and it's pretty obvious from the other comments that a key is very definitely required  :-X


anonymous

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Re: Short to Medium Term Arctic Sea Ice Conditions Discussion
« Reply #96 on: April 28, 2013, 05:53:49 PM »


Don't tell me you can't find Wrangel because of wind barbs :)

OldLeatherneck

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Re: Short to Medium Term Arctic Sea Ice Conditions Discussion
« Reply #97 on: April 28, 2013, 06:30:48 PM »
A***,

That legend is a big improvement.  As to the running dialogue regarding the land features, that I apparently started,  I think as the spring turns into summer and the coastlines shed their snow, the land features will become more evident.  Also, Greenland isn't planning on being moved in the next few millenia, so we should alway be able to find it as the coldest place in the Northern Hemisphere.  After a few daily looks at this map, the eye-to-brain coordination gets used to navigating the area.

GREAT WORK!!

That being said, there is nothing preventing some skilled volunteer, with the right tools, from creating an overlay that delineates certain land features.  We certainly have no right to demand that the original creators of charts/graphs/models to create everything to "our" specifications.
"Share Your Knowledge.  It's a Way to Achieve Immortality."  ......the Dalai Lama

SteveMDFP

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Re: Short to Medium Term Arctic Sea Ice Conditions Discussion
« Reply #98 on: April 28, 2013, 07:12:02 PM »
A***--

The map looks great!  Land areas are much easier to distinguish.  It looks like you've accomplished this by giving land an olive-green tint.  Now, that does seem to alter the color scale for temps.  I wonder whether either giving land a grey tint or just a black line outline for land might work better.

Possibly the pressure isobars could be a smidgen darker.

But this is a great integration of temps, wind, and pressure on a single pan-arctic map -- a major contribution !!

Bob Wallace

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Re: Short to Medium Term Arctic Sea Ice Conditions Discussion
« Reply #99 on: April 28, 2013, 09:20:08 PM »
The chart you have created looks very valuable.  It certainly let's me see what is happening in an easy to understand form.

I do have to struggle a bit to figure out the land/water/geography stuff and would imagine it to be quite difficult for someone who hasn't tried to learn to recognize area land forms.

What if there was a layer that could be toggled on/off that outlined the major shorelines and put names to the various areas?  (I can conceive it but, alas, I can't create it.)

Taking it a bit further.  How about the ability to toggle geography, wind direction/speed, temps, etc.?  Even current patterns.  Let people add and subtract information as they desire.

The NWS radar page does this with roads, rivers, topo, etc.

http://radar.weather.gov/radar.php?rid=bhx&product=N0R&overlay=11101111&loop=no