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Anne

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Re: Siberian permafrost hole/blowout
« Reply #100 on: September 11, 2017, 05:20:42 PM »
Two months after it erupted, methane is still escaping from the Seyakha blowhole on the Yamal peninsula.
Quote
Fresh analysis of a new geological phenomenon shows how gas is still gushing from a submerged crater caused by a fierce methane gas explosion in northern Siberia in June.
A 'pillar of fire' from the eruption was caused by stones and pebbles being thrown together as they were thrust out of the ground, sparking the swoosh of gas, like in an oven, a leading expert believes.
Reindeer and dogs from a nearby nomadic encampment fled in terror at the fireball, with some debris thrown as far as 200 metres from the epicentre.
A 50-metre deep funnel or crater was immediately filled by water from the Myudriyakha River flowing beside the site of the explosion.
Quote
Dr Anton Sinitasky, director of the Arctic research Centre in Yamalo-Nenets region [...]said: 'I can confirm that there was really a fire burning over the Seyakha funnel. We need to rely on the words of eyewitnesses. It lasted for one or one-and-a-half hours.
'Everything depended on the gas jet power.
'We think that the cause of the ignition was pebbles thrown by the eruption.
'The pebbles collided and struck a spark.
'It was like in gas oven - one spark was enough to set the gas on fire.
'When the power of gas jet began to decrease, the burning stopped.
'But the methane continues to leak from the funnel, so we have been able to take samples.'
Much more, including video, photographs and further speculation, in The Siberian Times. (Usual caveats apply.)
http://siberiantimes.com/other/others/news/video-shows-methane-leaking-from-beneath-an-arctic-river-after-spectacular-eruption/

nicibiene

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Re: Siberian permafrost hole/blowout
« Reply #101 on: September 12, 2017, 07:23:43 AM »
Quote
Much more, including video, photographs and further speculation, in The Siberian Times. (Usual caveats apply.)
http://siberiantimes.com/other/others/news/video-shows-methane-leaking-from-beneath-an-arctic-river-after-spectacular-eruption/

The russian humor (sarcasm?) about it is to admire in the video. Playing "Highway to hell" with earth turning upside down.  :o :o :o
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Forest Dweller

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Re: Siberian permafrost hole/blowout
« Reply #102 on: September 13, 2017, 10:16:40 AM »
The interesting bit to me being:

"It is all about monitoring,' said Dr Sinitasky.

'I know that oil and gas producing companies have maps of such objects and monitor them constantly.

'I have heard that for example Gazprom-Dobycha Yamburg make punctures and release gas to avoid eruption risk.

'When I was working at VNIIGAZ, I made a map of such objects for Gazprom.'

He said: 'The companies are very interested in minimising risks, they do not need any accidents, so they make maps and observe these objects very closely.

'As for the general map of such objects... The Institute of Oil and Gas Problems keeps a database on sites being discovered using satellite data.
The Earth Cryosphere Institute probably has its own database.'

Puncturing pingo's ey?
It would be nice if the good folks at Gazprom shared some footage of that...
« Last Edit: September 13, 2017, 10:43:02 AM by Forest Dweller »

morganism

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Re: Siberian permafrost hole/blowout
« Reply #103 on: March 24, 2018, 11:11:49 PM »
NASA Couldn't Explain What Made This Strange, Deep Hole on Mars

https://www.sciencealert.com/nasa-doesn-t-know-what-made-this-deep-hole-on-mars?perpetual=yes&limitstart=1

"That means the pit isn't tiny – at 50 centimetres (19.7 inches) per pixel, we're looking at a feature hundreds of metres across. Take a look on NASA's website for a hi-res version of the image."


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TerryM

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Re: Siberian permafrost hole/blowout
« Reply #105 on: April 06, 2018, 02:55:28 PM »
Apparently they can blow out repeatedly http://siberiantimes.com/other/others/news/crater-formed-by-exploding-pingo-in-arctic-erupts-a-second-time-from-methane-emissions/


Interesting in many ways. They refer to these as pingos rather than as pingo like structures, but this is perhaps due to a poor translation?
I live very close to a number of large and small kettle lakes, and within 100 K of the sight of a large methane eruption from a few years back. If we ever get solid ice in the region again I will check to see it methane bubbles are entrapped. 8)
Terry

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Re: Siberian permafrost hole/blowout
« Reply #106 on: April 06, 2018, 04:01:20 PM »

I live very close to a number of large and small kettle lakes, and within 100 K of the sight of a large methane eruption from a few years back. If we ever get solid ice in the region again I will check to see it methane bubbles are entrapped. 8)
Terry

Perhaps I misunderstand you, in which case, my apologies....Kettle lakes are artifacts of ice sheet retreat not methane blow outs, nor collapsed pingos.

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Re: Siberian permafrost hole/blowout
« Reply #107 on: April 06, 2018, 05:29:52 PM »
"pingo" yes when I looked in to it these features seemed quite different, so I guess there must be various types, or some authority called them this and no-one is rude enough to gainsay them?
It's quite interesting that they blame human activity, I'm assuming the release of pressure begins the process of gas release, too late not to interfere now, both here and below the ocean. When did those kettle lakes form? and are they founded below sea level, like the 'pingos' on Yamal peninsular?
                  john

TerryM

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Re: Siberian permafrost hole/blowout
« Reply #108 on: April 06, 2018, 06:54:09 PM »
"pingo" yes when I looked in to it these features seemed quite different, so I guess there must be various types, or some authority called them this and no-one is rude enough to gainsay them?
It's quite interesting that they blame human activity, I'm assuming the release of pressure begins the process of gas release, too late not to interfere now, both here and below the ocean. When did those kettle lakes form? and are they founded below sea level, like the 'pingos' on Yamal peninsular?
                  john


And Sebastion


The local kettle lakes were formed as the glacier retreated leaving a huge block of ice behind. It was buried and all the silt that flowed out from under the still retreating glacier built up the land all around it.
At some time the ice melted and the ground subsided and filled with water. The largest here. Puslinch Lake has an outlet, but many others are essentially gigantic puddles that wax and wane with precipitation, runoff and evaporation.


Nothing to do with methane release so I probably shouldn't have mentioned them in this thread. I'd lived my adult life where glaciers never existed and I'm still excited when I discover another aspect of the local geography that was carved, or impacted by glacial action.


The methane explosion I referenced was a large geyser that erupted at a golf course not far from here. No gas lines in the vicinity nor any landfill sites.
I snuck in a week after the event and did a little poking about. The methane tunneled up through a minimum of 22 feet of very dense clay. No idea how any more feet of clay it may have migrated through.





Terry

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Re: Siberian permafrost hole/blowout
« Reply #109 on: April 06, 2018, 09:30:00 PM »
Gerontocrat: Thank you for providing the definition of kettle lakes- which I was too lazy to provide :D
Ontario is a wonderland for glacial features- entire fields of drumlins, lined up like sleeping ground sloths, eskers winding across wetlands, a bewildering assemblage of moranic features- and of course the kettle lakes. I do remember the gas eruption, do you know what caused it?

TerryM

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Re: Siberian permafrost hole/blowout
« Reply #110 on: April 07, 2018, 03:03:09 AM »
Gerontocrat: Thank you for providing the definition of kettle lakes- which I was too lazy to provide :D
Ontario is a wonderland for glacial features- entire fields of drumlins, lined up like sleeping ground sloths, eskers winding across wetlands, a bewildering assemblage of moranic features- and of course the kettle lakes. I do remember the gas eruption, do you know what caused it?
Not with any certainty.


My guess is that the huge salt structure to the north and the oldest petroleum field to the south have put a squeeze on methane that may have been trapped there for a very long time. It's also possible that this is just another glacier based feature that's related to the ground just now warming up from it's long ago cold spell when covered by ice.


If it ever ices over again I'll try to capture some gas in hopes that someone might be able to date it, assuming it's of biological origin.


Terry

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Re: Siberian permafrost hole/blowout
« Reply #111 on: May 08, 2018, 12:50:13 PM »
I think I'll pop this back up to visible as I have an increasing level of worry about the Yamal 'pingo like structures' should we run into the kind of summers we saw over last solar min ( 2010 being pretty impactful over siberia).

It appears that the inner continental high pressures that build over summer do so with more intent over low solar with the kind of heat domes building that brought us the russian drought of 2010 ( and crop issues) and extensive wildfires?

If the Yamal region was badly impacted by the run of hot summer over last low solar then this time around it might all prove too much and set off a series of eruptions from the upward of 1,000 'pingo like structures' now identified across Yamal.

When we look at the geology of the region we see it containing some ancient fault zones that reach out into the shelf seas off Siberia so what starts on the land could transfer out into the East Siberian Sea and place us in a very bad position!

If reserves there are at the lower end of predictions for reserves then it only needs 1% losses to double the level of methane in the atmosphere, if it is closer to the upper end of predictions for CH4 then we need only a teeny amount of 1% to be released to double methane levels!

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morganism

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Re: Siberian permafrost hole/blowout
« Reply #112 on: October 05, 2018, 11:50:50 PM »
Russians find nearly 7k pingo structures in Yamal

http://sciencenordic.com/giant-gas-craters-discovered-bottom-barents-sea

Interesting that the ones in the Barents Sea are sunk into solid rock, not mud pack. That must have packed a lot of power to blow a 1k wide crater in rock....

http://siberiantimes.com/search/?text=pingo&x=4&y=9
« Last Edit: October 06, 2018, 12:51:10 AM by morganism »

morganism

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Re: Siberian permafrost hole/blowout
« Reply #113 on: July 23, 2019, 12:38:21 AM »
"The record heat in #Siberia this summer not only has caused massive fires, but large areas of rapid permafrost melt and resultant ground collapse."

https://twitter.com/rgatess/status/1152943527824777216


morganism

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Re: Siberian permafrost hole/blowout
« Reply #114 on: July 25, 2019, 11:41:41 AM »
Looks like major slumping in the burn areas themselves ?

https://www.roscosmos.ru/26604/

DrTskoul

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Re: Siberian permafrost hole/blowout
« Reply #115 on: July 25, 2019, 11:58:35 AM »
How can you tell??

Juan C. García

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Re: Siberian permafrost hole/blowout
« Reply #116 on: October 04, 2019, 06:13:14 PM »
Quote
Radical warming in Siberia leaves millions on unstable ground

A Washington Post analysis found that the region near the town of Zyryanka, in an enormous wedge of eastern Siberia called Yakutia, has warmed by more than 3 degrees Celsius since preindustrial times — roughly triple the global average.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2019/national/climate-environment/climate-change-siberia/
Which is the best answer to Sep-2012 ASI lost (compared to 1979-2000)?
50% [NSIDC Extent] or
73% [PIOMAS Volume]

Volume is harder to measure than extent, but 3-dimensional space is real, 2D's hide ~50% thickness gone.
-> IPCC/NSIDC trends [based on extent] underestimate the real speed of ASI lost.

morganism

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Re: Siberian permafrost hole/blowout
« Reply #117 on: August 30, 2020, 07:57:59 PM »
New 50 meter blowhole opened up. Story at SiberianTimes.

I can't link from this tablet.

Lewis

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Re: Siberian permafrost hole/blowout
« Reply #118 on: August 30, 2020, 08:15:48 PM »

gerontocrat

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Re: Siberian permafrost hole/blowout
« Reply #119 on: August 30, 2020, 08:19:57 PM »
New 50 meter blowhole opened up. Story at SiberianTimes.

I can't link from this tablet.

https://siberiantimes.com/other/others/news/giant-new-50-metre-deep-crater-opens-up-in-arctic-tundra/
going, going, gone.

Trouble is, it's happening in the gas fields  +  loads of pipelines.
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glennbuck

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Re: Siberian permafrost hole/blowout
« Reply #120 on: August 31, 2020, 08:43:20 PM »
Some saying it is 165ft deep.


A huge crater has appeared in Russia’s Arctic region following a massive explosion.

Scientists believe the 165ft-deep hole was caused by the eruption of a build-up of methane gas beneath the thawing permafrost following record temperatures over the summer.

Professor Vasily Bogoyavlensky, of the Russian Oil and Gas Research Institute, described the hole as “unique”.

“It carries a lot of additional scientific information, which I am not yet ready to disclose,” he told the TV station.

“This is the subject of scientific publications.”

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/crater-explosion-arctic-tundra-russia-heatwave-methane-a9695581.html

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12537141/mystery-explosion-leaves-165ft-deep-crater-in-russias-arctic-tundra-amid-bizarre-ufo-conspiracy-theories/

Video below with pictures and commentary from Inspector Clouseau

« Last Edit: August 31, 2020, 08:54:18 PM by glennbuck »

kassy

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Re: Siberian permafrost hole/blowout
« Reply #121 on: September 01, 2020, 01:28:21 PM »
From the Independant article:
Quote
It is the 17th crater of its kind to be found and documented in Yamal since 2014 – and is thought to be the biggest.
Þetta minnismerki er til vitnis um að við vitum hvað er að gerast og hvað þarf að gera. Aðeins þú veist hvort við gerðum eitthvað.

Tor Bejnar

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Re: Siberian permafrost hole/blowout
« Reply #122 on: September 01, 2020, 03:44:12 PM »
Curious:  there is virtually no debris around the rim of this new hole.  Did the explosion shoot the plug out like a bullet, and the debris is some distance away? or is this a sink hole where the plug dropped into a cavern or underground stream?  At the bottom of the hole is there a grassy surface, permafrost or flowing water?

So many questions!
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kassy

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Re: Siberian permafrost hole/blowout
« Reply #123 on: September 01, 2020, 11:46:53 PM »
I think it did explode it away. The bottom and lower edges are frozen but the whole thing will slump in over time.

It would be interesting to know what actually contributes to these locations. A bunch of local weaknesses leads to the methane stacking up and then some pretty impressive holes.  :)
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morganism

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Re: Siberian permafrost hole/blowout
« Reply #124 on: September 19, 2020, 09:56:39 PM »
A large new ‘hole’ appears in Gydan tundra, following record-warm Arctic summer
17 September 2020

200 metres wide thermocirque seen weeks after scientists find funnel in the Yamal peninsula, caused by build up of methane.

Sciences said gas emissions were not the origin of this phenomenon.

‘This is a thermocirque; gas funnels have nothing to do with it.

‘We have been studying thermocirques for many years, they became active in warm year 2012.

'They look like huge landslides of semi-circular shape with outcrops of ice.

'Earlier such thermocirques were observed near the sea, now they are seen deeper on land. They are associated with ice layers and warming, alike to funnels’, she said.

http://www.siberiantimes.com/other/others/news/giant-new-hole-appears-in-russian-arctic-200-metres-in-diameter-and-20-metres-deep/

More than 400 sealed ‘craters’ are ticking time bombs from a total 7000+ Arctic permafrost mounds

http://www.siberiantimes.com/other/others/news/more-than-300-sealed-craters-are-ticking-time-bombs-from-a-total-7000-plus-arctic-permafrost-mounds/

At least three of the recorded eruptions had witnesses, who reported seeing the ignition.

These were the Antipayuta crater (C3), the Seyakha crater (C11) and the Yerkuta crater (C12) eruptions.

‘We believe the ignition was caused by electrostatic discharges, which adds to the danger of the mounds’, Vasily Bogoyavlensky said.