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Author Topic: Île de France / North East Greenland  (Read 8407 times)

Espen

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Île de France / North East Greenland
« on: July 26, 2014, 10:30:00 PM »
This time we do the fever test at Île de France, an overlooked place but still interesting, it is clear the ice cap on this island is retreating by the years as can be watched in the animation below.
All images are from August in the respective months.
Notice the total absence of sea ice surrounding the island in 2013 (this also happened in 2002 and 2003), and will likely happen in 2014 too.

The island is situated just south east of Jøkelbugt, its length is ~ 32,5 km and the average width ~ 10 km and all together ~ 250 km2. The maximum height of the island is about 250 m.

Please click on the image to start the animation!
« Last Edit: July 27, 2014, 10:02:36 AM by Espen »
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DaddyBFree

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Re: Île de France / North East Greenland
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2014, 04:34:19 AM »
Nice animation Espen.  Starts the year I was born, and I have to say I'm aging better than the snow cap ;)

Espen

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Re: Île de France / North East Greenland
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2014, 10:00:47 AM »
New animation 2002 is added:

Please click on image to start the animation!
« Last Edit: July 27, 2014, 11:00:19 AM by Espen »
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Espen

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Re: Île de France / North East Greenland
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2014, 06:58:41 PM »
Nice animation Espen.  Starts the year I was born, and I have to say I'm aging better than the snow cap ;)
Yes I think this small island with its ice cap and micro climate, tells a story about very different conditions in the the Arctic over at least the last 40+ years, why is this ice cap disappearing?

It cant be because of different rock conditions, I believe?


And somehow this small island explains much more than Petermann, Jakobshavn, Helheim, Zachariae and "few" more can?
« Last Edit: July 27, 2014, 08:00:33 PM by Espen »
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Espen

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Re: Île de France / North East Greenland
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2014, 08:02:47 PM »
So the question now is when will the last piece of the rocky coast of this island be seen from Landsat?
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Espen

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Re: Île de France / North East Greenland
« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2019, 09:13:01 AM »
Fever test update, same situation as above, but with the melt speed over the last few years I believe the ice cover / ice cap at Île de France will be history in 15 - 20 years.
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Espen

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Re: Île de France / North East Greenland
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2020, 05:33:43 PM »
Île de France an updated fever test, notice the new lake in the north of the island!

Please click on the image to enlarge and animate!!!

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Espen

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Re: Île de France / North East Greenland
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2021, 09:24:56 PM »
Arctic Image of the Day:
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Shared Humanity

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Re: Île de France / North East Greenland
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2021, 12:19:15 AM »
Looking at this latest image, I think your ice cap prediction from 2 years ago was very optimistic.

Espen

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Re: Île de France / North East Greenland
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2021, 09:44:35 AM »
Looking at this latest image, I think your ice cap prediction from 2 years ago was very optimistic.


Yes you are rigth: Don't  worry be happy! It is called local warming!

Relatively extreme retreat in 1 year? In some places about 80 meters?

Please click on image to enlarge and animate!
« Last Edit: August 10, 2021, 09:57:42 AM by Espen »
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Shared Humanity

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Re: Île de France / North East Greenland
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2021, 01:31:50 PM »
Is that image true color? Filthy ice.

Espen

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Re: Île de France / North East Greenland
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2021, 01:37:39 PM »
Is that image true color? Filthy ice.

That is how it looks when it is in a melting mode, white would indicate snow cover.
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SimonF92

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Re: Île de France / North East Greenland
« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2021, 01:46:40 PM »
Big tabular iceberg just northwest of it caught my eye. Possible remnant of Zachariae Isstrom calving event
Bunch of small python Arctic Apps:
https://github.com/SimonF92/Arctic

Shared Humanity

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Re: Île de France / North East Greenland
« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2021, 09:16:34 PM »
Looking at this latest image, I think your ice cap prediction from 2 years ago was very optimistic.


Yes you are rigth: Don't  worry be happy! It is called local warming!

Relatively extreme retreat in 1 year? In some places about 80 meters?

Please click on image to enlarge and animate!

If you magnify that gif, it is amazing how much sediment is washing into the ocean.

Tor Bejnar

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Re: Île de France / North East Greenland
« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2021, 09:21:07 PM »
Thanks, SH, for pointing that out!  Oftentimes I have to not only click on the image to enlarge it to see interesting things, but I have to view my screen at an angle. 
Arctic ice is healthy for children and other living things because "we cannot negotiate with the melting point of ice"

FredBear

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Re: Île de France / North East Greenland
« Reply #16 on: August 11, 2021, 10:53:20 AM »
SH - thanks for pointing out the sediment spreading out in the surrounding seas (I hadn't noticed that), also looks like that transitions into extra chlorophyll production?

Espen

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Re: Île de France / North East Greenland
« Reply #17 on: August 13, 2021, 05:56:42 PM »
Something is wrong, but notice where subglacial rivers once ran!

Click on image to enlarge and animate!
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Tor Bejnar

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Re: Île de France / North East Greenland
« Reply #18 on: August 13, 2021, 08:08:42 PM »
Quote
notice where subglacial rivers once ran!
Looks to me like there is a strong geological structural influence on the east side of the island (vaguely 9 km wide and 30 km tall).  In the 'mid' island area, there appear to be geological formation or mineral segregation bands perpendicular to the glacial flow, and basically no deep channels.

Pliocene sediments (with fossils, including wood) were identified at the north end of the island.  Northeast Greenland mostly "... consists of crystalline basement and Palaeozoic–Mesozoic rift basins, capped by Palaeogene basalts that erupted during the northeast Atlantic break-up."  So what we are seeing on eastern side will be one or more of these rock types.  Southern  Île de France geomorphology sure looks like a 'typical' eroded volcano, with radiating valleys, but I would want to know the rock types before saying it was one!
Arctic ice is healthy for children and other living things because "we cannot negotiate with the melting point of ice"

Espen

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Re: Île de France / North East Greenland
« Reply #19 on: August 17, 2021, 12:34:24 AM »
Île de France: This is crazy, it is a very old Ice Cap and it is melting in such a hurry it can be watched "live" by a satellite? Watch the edges!
No wonder there is almost no sea ice left of Jøkelbugt / Greenland Sea!

Please click on the image to enlarge and animate!
« Last Edit: August 17, 2021, 12:42:31 AM by Espen »
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RoxTheGeologist

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Re: Île de France / North East Greenland
« Reply #20 on: August 17, 2021, 01:00:36 AM »

The edge must be pretty thin for it to move so far.

Espen

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Re: Île de France / North East Greenland
« Reply #21 on: August 17, 2021, 07:58:16 AM »

The edge must be pretty thin for it to move so far.

But anyway?
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Shared Humanity

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Re: Île de France / North East Greenland
« Reply #22 on: August 17, 2021, 09:15:02 PM »
Île de France: This is crazy, it is a very old Ice Cap and it is melting in such a hurry it can be watched "live" by a satellite? Watch the edges!
No wonder there is almost no sea ice left of Jøkelbugt / Greenland Sea!

Please click on the image to enlarge and animate!

That gif explains why there is so much silt in the water surrounding the island. Those rivulets must be filled with muddy water streaming to the sea.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2021, 09:31:44 PM by Shared Humanity »

Stumbi

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Re: Île de France / North East Greenland
« Reply #23 on: August 20, 2021, 09:02:09 PM »
What are these ice flields on the south side? Permafrost ˋcliffsˋ or just leftover snowfields. Would be nice to see some real photos.
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Espen

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Re: Île de France / North East Greenland
« Reply #24 on: August 20, 2021, 10:10:29 PM »
How about the White Cliffs of Dover ?https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/74/White_Cliffs_of_Dover_02.JPG/1024px-White_Cliffs_of_Dover_02.JPG
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Re: Île de France / North East Greenland
« Reply #25 on: August 20, 2021, 11:24:48 PM »
Isn't it just the glacier covered on top by centuries worth of ash and dust? 
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Mr. Ä

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Re: Île de France / North East Greenland
« Reply #26 on: August 21, 2021, 09:42:02 AM »
There is similar bright material visible at some other places in Greenland also. I too think it’s similar to White Cliffs of Dover or some other bright mineral.

johnm33

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Re: Île de France / North East Greenland
« Reply #27 on: August 21, 2021, 11:56:38 AM »
The smoothness of the coast suggests very soft rock, or more likely permafrost, so my guess is these are ice cliffs. The whole island looks as if it's approaching zero C and sea temps are a little above zero.

johnm33

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Re: Île de France / North East Greenland
« Reply #28 on: August 21, 2021, 12:26:29 PM »
To add context I took a look at the surrounding bathymetry, it's smoothness also suggests permafrost. Searching for a high point on the south coast I found one spot at 190m, whereas much of it was 100m+ and drops off rapidly offshore to -200m. image from https://maps.ngdc.noaa.gov/viewers/bathymetry/

gerontocrat

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Re: Île de France / North East Greenland
« Reply #29 on: August 21, 2021, 02:33:35 PM »
Geology

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.610.8725&rep=rep1&type=pdf

Quote
Île de France
Sediments assigned a Late Pliocene or Early Pleistocene
age were reported from this island by Landvik (1994).

We found rich, though not very diverse, marine macrofaunas in sections near the northern tip of the island

(Fig. 4). Preliminary identifications show that the fauna includes Spirorbis sp., Decapoda indet., Boreocingula sp., Trichotropis bicarinata, Euspira cf. E. pallida, Cryptonatica aff. C. affinis, Trophon cf. T. truncatus, Neptunea sp., Admete sp., Oenopota sp., Nucula (Lamellinucula) cf. N. (L.) jeffreysi, Nuculana pernula, Portlandia arctica, Yoldiella intermedia, Yoldiella sp.,
Astarte borealis, A. montagui, Astarte domburgensis, Astarte alaskensis, Arctinula greenlandica, Clinocardium ciliatum, Serripes groenlandicus, Arctica islandica, Hiatella arctica, Mya truncata and ?Terebratula sp.

Wood remains are fairly common and a few seeds and fruits were also found; the latter include Picea cf. P. mariana (black spruce), Menyanthes trifoliata and Potamogeton filiformis. The fauna shows similarities to the older part of the Kap København Formation (Bennike 1989, 1990; Símonarson et al. 1998), and to Neogene deposits in North-West Europe, and a Pliocene age is
suggested.


The marine fauna indicates a shallow shelf environment and a subarctic climate much warmer than that of the present. Further work is in progress on the fauna, flora and chronology of this sequence that appears to be the first Pliocene sequence located in Greenland

ps: -The Pliocene, 5.3 to 2.6 million years ago, was a time of global cooling after the warmer Miocene.

click image to enlarge
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mitch

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Re: Île de France / North East Greenland
« Reply #30 on: August 21, 2021, 07:03:37 PM »
The article you quote says the age is Late Pliocene to early Pleistocene, so more likely an age of 3 to 2.5 million years ago. Take the range I give with a grain of salt, since the authors didn't make a strong claim for the age. 3 million years ago is one of the warmest periods in the Pliocene.

gerontocrat

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Re: Île de France / North East Greenland
« Reply #31 on: August 21, 2021, 08:14:17 PM »
The article you quote says the age is Late Pliocene to early Pleistocene, so more likely an age of 3 to 2.5 million years ago. Take the range I give with a grain of salt, since the authors didn't make a strong claim for the age. 3 million years ago is one of the warmest periods in the Pliocene.

From the science paper

"The marine fauna indicates a shallow shelf environment and a subarctic climate much warmer than that of the present." That supports your contention, i.e. 3 to 2.5 million years ago.

The question is - how hard are these sedimentary rocks? Being so young, not subjected to great compression after being laid down? If easily eroded it would support the view of Shared Humanity above that I quote here...

That gif explains why there is so much silt in the water surrounding the island. Those rivulets must be filled with muddy water streaming to the sea.
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RoxTheGeologist

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Re: Île de France / North East Greenland
« Reply #32 on: August 23, 2021, 03:45:28 PM »

You don't find many hard sedimentary Pliocene rocks. No metamorphism to rearrange the composition.

Espen

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Re: Île de France / North East Greenland
« Reply #33 on: August 28, 2021, 01:33:30 AM »
What a beauty?

It can be clicked (touched) ::)
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