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Author Topic: Could geoengineering be started and hidden while illegal?  (Read 3942 times)

crandles

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Could geoengineering be started and hidden while illegal?
« on: August 12, 2014, 12:59:13 PM »
I think it is crazy to think any has started. However just out of interest I wonder how hidden could it be?

Obviously depends on the type of geoengineering. I am thinking about using temperature differences in winter between air temp and water 50-75m down to power a motor that pumps water to above the ice where it can lose heat to space and thicken the ice. You would need quite a lot of these to make any impact and deploying and servicing such equipment might involve too much in the way of trips to be disguised as deploying and servicing scientific buoys.

Is this at all feasible? Are there other types of geoengineering that could be hidden?

Laurent

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Re: Could geoengineering be started and hidden while illegal?
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2014, 01:51:36 PM »
We could think also about some airplanes sending particles to reflect the direct sunlight ?
That would be fairly stupid anyway, it would not last long, it may alter the melting for a few years if repeated regularly but that won't stop anything. For the people who think they have interest doing so I advise you to divest in durable, low tech systems...

Gray-Wolf

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Re: Could geoengineering be started and hidden while illegal?
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2014, 02:25:41 PM »
Doesn't our accidental geoengineering highlight the folly in attempting such a thing? We are finding it so difficult to predict just what we have already set into motion that any move toward manipulation would surely just be rejected?
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Neven

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Re: Could geoengineering be started and hidden while illegal?
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2014, 09:08:06 PM »
How about the HAARP-type stuff? Hypothetically, that is. I don't believe in the stuff. I saw a video on Youtube the other day with some guy maintaining that HAARP was causing the ridge in the North Pacific that they put there to melt the sea ice in order to destroy mankind (this year).

Cuts both ways!  ;D
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SCYetti

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Re: Could geoengineering be started and hidden while illegal?
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2014, 02:41:22 PM »
An old joke comes to mind. "A man's doctor told him his x-rays showed he needed an operation that would cost thousands of dollars. The man said he didn't have the money. So the doctor suggested he could just touch up the x-rays for 50 dollars." ( It was funny when I first heard it over 50 years ago.)

My point is: This illustrates what the governments are most likely to do. For the government the Arctic melting is more of a political problem than a physical one. They will seek to repress and minimalize reports of Arctic melting rather than minimalize Arctic melting its self.

jai mitchell

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Re: Could geoengineering be started and hidden while illegal?
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2014, 11:36:32 PM »
The ridiculously resilient ridge in the north east pacific is associated with a sudden shift to a negative PNA index which is directly linked to cooler summer arctic temperatures.

the existence of motive (wishing to maintain sea ice levels), and situation (a sudden and inexplicable change in jet stream patterns associated with a near permanent blocking event leading to reduced sea ice loss levels in the arctic) does not prove an act.

You can have a motive, and you can have a body, but without showing a means, you cannot solve the crime.

if, however, there was a means. . . if there was definitive proof of the existence of the technological capability to manipulate high/low pressure systems in the upper atmosphere, and maintain them over an extended period of time, then that would provide the final piece necessary to bring charges against a potential perpetrator. 

After charges were brought then a trial must be conducted to prove guilt.

Good luck with that one!
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jai mitchell

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Re: Could geoengineering be started and hidden while illegal?
« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2014, 12:13:32 AM »
This one is much better.



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Re: Could geoengineering be started and hidden while illegal?
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2014, 10:04:58 PM »
For the government the Arctic melting is more of a political problem than a physical one. They will seek to repress and minimalize reports of Arctic melting rather than minimalize Arctic melting its self.

I think that is a correct analysis. I also think the X–Ray joke illustrates your point excellently. IMO, the question is when we'll start seeing false ice data, not if.

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