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Messages - Aporia_filia

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Walking the walk / Re: Gardening
« on: September 04, 2020, 10:38:23 AM »
A good example of gardening protection. Malpolon monspessulanus.
A pick in front of my house. It's a Mediterranean spieces, although as you can see, now living in humind Atlantic forest, another example of animals moving north.

Agree, Jeju!
"The need for lockdown and a state of fear was caused by the failure to prevent the virus from getting established in the first place. The collective myopia of the western world was aided and abetted by those who denied the virus was a real threat.'

A quote from a chronicle in Spanish press (

 "The public discourse on the pandemic is falling apart. We have politicians calling on people to control their social relations and many people accusing governments of not doing their job on social networks. Both have their share of reason, although in this competition there are no winners if someone loses. The authorities are not in a position to return to the total confinement of the spring - Macron has also ruled it out in France - because the economic impact would be unimaginable and because they are not even convinced that it will be respected as it was then. We have a clear deficit of trackers in Madrid ("in every area today, just from last week, there are hundreds to thousands of positives who have not been called in. We have done nothing with them. We have lost control of the pandemic. It is criminal to say that this is under control," an epidemiologist told El País). We have judges who play the role of amateur epidemiologists and decide in which populations basic restrictions are applied and which are not. We have outbreaks at weddings, discos, family meals where most people end up infected, and even in brothels (who would have thought that social distancing and sex were difficult to reconcile). And we have a bullfighting fair planned in Alcalá de Henares, Madrid, with a capacity for more than 4,000 people that can generate images that will be seen in the rest of the world as an example that the Spanish have lost their minds because they spend too much time in the sun.

It can always get worse, but you have to try hard to get to this point. "

Wili, sidd, it is a very important issue prone to be discussed in long and hard philosophy books.
A theme ready to end up in aporia 😉
Trying to simplify. Simplicity is the beginning of complex systems like life.
Is there a max number of members in a social group that would unable individual freedom as a payment to support the group?
(Can ants, termites  or bees survive allowing individualism?)
Is always better to save a group than an individual?
Won't it be just a matter of physiology; your consciousness feeling individual (being part of a group) or just part of that group (being part of the Superorganism)?

I think that the explosive growth of humans MUST influence how we see all of this. We cannot expect to live as if we were in a tribe in much of the actual world.

The forum / Re: Suggestions
« on: August 20, 2020, 12:39:37 PM »
Remember where they were coming from...

Arctic sea ice / Re: Freeform season chatter and light commentary
« on: August 18, 2020, 11:37:34 AM »
I don't have enough knowledge, or time to improve it on these matters, but I have some experience sailing so...
There are a few discussions in the melting thread about currents, and tides. (Good to read the book posted in basic science). I just want to add some observations.
When you cross the Panama Channel is normal to see eddies forming when the different salinity waters encounter within the Channel.
Sailing south of Cape of Good Hope where cold and warm currents flow close one to the other, eddies can be seen and what is more important, waves can become crazy and very dangerous, implying a lot of mixing.
Wind flowing against a strong current can make enormous waves, even not being a very strong wind. Messina and Strait of Gibraltar are also dangerous for this.

These were not seen in the Arctic because of the ice cover, but I have no doubt that they are becoming part of the new picture.

The forum / Re: Forum Decorum
« on: August 15, 2020, 04:58:24 PM »
I don't think we can cut ourselves off from emotion (unless you are a psychopath).
But if in the middle of the storm you don't control your emotions is easier to lose your boat. And be aware that it takes time (a lot, according to your emotions too much) to go through.

The forum / Re: Forum Decorum
« on: August 15, 2020, 11:48:53 AM »
I find all this sad, couse of emotions, and very interesting, couse of knowledge.
We are interested in the scientific knowledge about Climate Change and the Cryosphere which involves the quality of our future. Meaning that it would be almost impossible to separate this knowledge from emotions as the time goes.
This is a "low speed" huge crisis forming.
Now we experience a "fast speed" crisis and emotions are all over reasons.

Unfortunately, in my humble opinion, this shows pretty well how inadequate our response to the huge crisis is, and will be. Our brain is dominated by emotions, specially when some risk, fear, or pain is menacing ourselves.
We are NOT doing enough to stop this huge crisis and some parts of the world are already feeling unhabitable. People living there can only think of survival. (If they still can do)

Do you know that, nowadays, the main cause of death in the world is suicide ???
(Gaia works)

A place like this forum should be kind of aseptic with respect of uncontrolled emotions. We have distance and time to count up to twenty before answering.
We are only chatting, most people in comfortable and/or affluent places and positions. Wait for the real problems to hit your sofas and see who can you cooperate with to save your own ass.
 (Some in the forum seems to be suffering directly with the covid crisis and suddenly coming back to BAU is a priority, maybe for the total lack of collaboration)

Science / Re: Science basics-thread?
« on: August 14, 2020, 11:05:53 AM »
A good old sailing mate has sent me this book that could help clarifying basic knowledge about oceans (currents, tides...) Some chapters may need un update, but not the basic science.

Introduction To Physical Oceanography Robert H. Stewart Department of Oceanography Texas A & M University   Copyright 1997–2000

Understanding that can be shared since 2000, and thinking that sharing knowledge CANNOT be wrong:



Walking the walk / Re: Zero-Carbon Farming and Living via the Acorn Path
« on: August 11, 2020, 12:15:20 PM »
In my lost farm I had a solar oven just like uniquorn's one. And also a solar cooker which was like a parabolic  concentrating the solar rays. Both needed some orientation every  five, ten minutes, not a problem for normal cooking. My experience with them was very satisfactory with the parabolic one. Quicker than gas cooker on summer sunny days and still good enough in spring and autumn. Delicious how vegetables came out with only a bit of salt and olive oil over them.
The solar oven was not that satisfactory couse a few clouds could make impossible to reach propper temperature.

The politics / Re: Empire - America and the future
« on: August 11, 2020, 11:12:00 AM »

Consequences / Re: Climate change, the ocean, agriculture, and FOOD
« on: August 05, 2020, 10:18:54 AM »

Seafood is one of the leading imported products implicated in foodborne outbreaks worldwide. Coastal marine environments are being increasingly subjected to reduced water quality from urbanization and leading to contamination of important fishery species. Given the importance of seafood exchanged as a global protein source, it is imperative to maintain seafood safety worldwide. To illustrate the potential health risks associated with urbanization in a coastal environment, we use next-generation high-throughput amplicon sequencing of the 16S ribosomal RNA gene combined with infrared spectroscopy to characterize and quantify a vast range of potential human bacterial pathogens and microdebris contaminants in seawater, sediment and an important oyster fishery along the Mergui Archipelago in Myanmar. Through the quantification of >1.25 million high-quality bacterial operational taxonomic unit (OTU) reads, we detected 5459 potential human bacterial pathogens belonging to 87 species that are commonly associated with gut microbiota and an indication of terrestrial runoff of human and agricultural waste. Oyster tissues contained 51% of all sequenced bacterial pathogens that are considered to be both detrimental and of emerging concern to human health. Using infrared spectroscopy, we examined a total of 1225 individual microdebris particles, from which we detected 78 different types of contaminant materials. The predominant microdebris contaminants recovered from oyster tissues included polymers (48%), followed by non-native minerals (20%), oils (14%) and milk supplement powders (14%). Emerging technologies provide novel insights into the impacts of coastal development on food security and risks to human and environmental health.

The rest / Re: Wildlife
« on: July 28, 2020, 11:13:16 AM »
" It is obvious to those who regularly work with animals that there is no sharp difference between how human minds and other minds work. Even second order thinking (thinking about thinking) which is horribly difficult to rule in or out in animals occurs on a spectrum, as we regularly observe in people."

Agree! And that gives us, people who work/live with animals enough perspective to look at those actually rejecting the fact of an animal mind, like those "scientists" at the end of the  XIX Century rejecting a mind and a soul in those
living in tribes in lost forests.

The rest / Re: Wildlife
« on: July 23, 2020, 01:08:37 PM »
IMHO, is very important to change the way we look at animals, specially about their minds.


In this article, we analyze and reject two versions of the content‐argument against animal beliefs, namely, the ontological argument from Davidson and the epistemological argument from Stich. One of the main defects of the strongest version of the argument is that it over‐intellectualizes belief ascriptions in humans and thus sets the comparative bar for belief ascriptions in animals too high. In the second part of the article, we develop a gradualist notion of belief which captures basic beliefs as well as Davidsonian linguistic beliefs, and we specify the conditions under which belief ascriptions to nonlinguistic animals are justified.

Policy and solutions / Re: Life Without
« on: July 23, 2020, 12:54:52 PM »
"We are just a very successful type of ape.
You can not separate our pre programmed imperatives from our actions.
Humans are not logical ."

Agreed! And maybe we should also look at an increasing "life without intelligence"
Known is that high CO2 concentrations limit our intelligence. Also that a whole generation of Americans born around the Great Lakes have a reduced IQ (average) because of the DDT used in agriculture in the 50's and 60's.

And this is of main concern in phycologists and physiatrists' studies:
"These newer studies have strengthened the evidence linking endocrine disruptors to physical and especially neurological health issues,"

Policy and solutions / Re: Life Without
« on: July 22, 2020, 11:10:19 AM »
The lottery of life Gero! 😉
Kassy I love the way you 'seems' to be, ☺, although I cannot concourse with your voluntarism. There are  lots of literature  about our lack of free will. It is a very difficult issue but this one is rather good, to my likings.

I reckon there's an innate impossibility to keep these talkings into a defined thread, kassy. Sorry for making it difficult for you.

Policy and solutions / Re: Life Without
« on: July 21, 2020, 12:33:45 PM »
I just want to say that I feel close to sidd and kiwi g.
Your assertions and your doubts. We are full of contradictions and ignorance. Trying to do our best is all we should aim.
Things like "having a very high moral" revolves me. Not cos the intentions but for what implies. Is the same thing you would hear in a nuns' school, in sects like Opus Dei.
There are very few absolute facts, any other apart from our future death???
Being human is very hard for most of the total population. You have to survive, to procreate, to feed your family if you follow the natural impulse of your hormones and though your brain. Not to follow that path is frustrating for the animal inside all of us. Some are lucky enough to receive access to education (meaning knowledge) which allow us to see and choose other options.
Obviously those hormones and/or brain structures can make people feel their meaning of life is to dominate, or to accumulate wealth...
As far as we know oscillation around more cooperative or more individualist human groups is part of our history and the search for a better society is as old as societies themselves. A chaotic system, instable equilibrium where you cannot program your future cos you don't and won't ever have enough data to do the calculations.

My experience is that the less you own the more free your spirit feels.

Arctic sea ice / Re: The 2020 melting season
« on: July 18, 2020, 02:28:04 PM »
This could be posted in several threads, but this one is where weather forecasts are used most frequently.

Weather forecasts have become less accurate during the COVID-19 pandemic due to the reduction in commercial flights, according to new research.

"A new study in AGU's journal Geophysical Research Letters finds the world lost 50-75% of its aircraft weather observations between March and May of this year, when many flights were grounded due to the pandemic.

Aircraft typically inform weather forecasts by recording information about air temperature, relative humidity, air pressure and wind along their flight path. With significantly fewer planes in the sky this spring, forecasts of these meteorological conditions have become less accurate and the impact is more pronounced as forecasts extend further out in time, according to the study, which is part of an ongoing special collection of research in AGU journals related to the current pandemic."...

Consequences / Re: COVID-19
« on: July 12, 2020, 12:10:48 PM »
Quote from el Cid:
"(the answer is that individuals of Western civilizations suddenly, out of the blue face the threat of immediate death and are scared to shit)"

IMHO, you've hit the nail here. And correlates very well with AGW. We have heard so many times that we can still avoid Climate Change, from soft deniers to climate scientists, always a kind of tail to any article talking about the climate issues; If we are good boys we can and will stop this 'future' catastrophe.
That is: creating the illusion that we are still in CONTROL of the situation.
With Covid we've seen what happens when we see a situation that's out of our CONTROL, if we keep living our normal lives.

And yet again we've seen in these pages how emotions fly over and cancel rational thinking when uncertainty is what we have to deal with.

The rest / Re: Arctic Café
« on: June 23, 2020, 09:58:56 AM »
Sorry nanning for the delay. These days are all work, can hardly find some time to read.
First time I came into this forest I discovered all hundreds different shades of green. I understood what was studied: our eyes can recognize more grades of the green colour than of any other colour.
And yep, fauna is plenty and diverse, from the big bears, wolves and deer, to an almost tropical variety of insects.
That's why it was designated a Biosphere Reserve by UNESCO.

The rest / Re: Arctic Café
« on: June 17, 2020, 12:30:55 PM »
Last one from now

The rest / Re: Arctic Café
« on: June 17, 2020, 12:29:35 PM »

The rest / Re: Arctic Café
« on: June 17, 2020, 12:28:30 PM »
Some photos taken last Saturday. I hope you like them and find them relaxing.

The rest / Re: Arctic Café
« on: June 17, 2020, 12:23:08 PM »
A very good friend of mine has asked me this: "And if you know of anyone else who might like them, pass on the link, please."
He's one of the translators of Enric Valor, a renowned Valencian classic writer. The other translator is his wife, who happens to be Enric Valor's granddaughter.
These are four Valencian Fairy Tales. You can tell they were written into a paternalistic society with lots of their cliché. Life's changing.

The rest / Re: George Floyd murder and blowback
« on: June 08, 2020, 11:39:46 AM »
N. Chomsky:

Well, actually, what's happening serves a little purpose in nurturing hope. First of all, the murder of George Floyd is not an unusual event. I mean, these kinds of events used to happen with some frequency, but nobody paid any attention to them. What is promising, and it is difficult to say this in the midst of the riots, what is promising is that there is a reaction, and that shows that there has been a kind of improvement in the level of civilization of the country. Just as it went unnoticed before, at least many people were aware and did not participate before, now it does. However, let me offer a criticism of this, that is, I understand, I sympathise, that is all very well, but notice how attention is being focused on the other policemen: one of them is a murderer, but the other three stood by, they did nothing. Numerous complaints are coming in against the three who stood still.

    There's a reaction to Floyd's murder and that's promising. It shows that there's been a kind of improvement in the level of civilization in the country

"But it is useful to look in the mirror from time to time. Can you think of anyone who stood still, for, indeed, most of our lives and long before, while this sort of thing was happening, who did nothing? People like me, for example, and everyone else, what have we done to improve the situation that has given rise to this? Of course we can blame the police who stood by, but there is a bigger problem, a deep-seated problem on the white side, even the people who are activists, participants, we all stood by virtually immobile in the face of the situation. Today's protests are very much like those in 1992 after the assassination of Roger Rodney King, even if it was the LAPD. When the cops who murdered him walked out of the trial without punishment, there was a storm of protest. The week of the protests, I think, 60 people were killed, the military was called in, and the consequence, as always, was to divert attention away from the protesters: we need more law and order, more force. That is the typical response to demonstrations, only now the protests are more numerous. "

The politics / Re: The Trump Presidency
« on: June 08, 2020, 10:28:58 AM »
For all of you Americans who can DO IT!!!

The rest / Re: George Floyd murder and blowback
« on: June 05, 2020, 10:32:09 AM »

"A new solidarity movement is emerging. From Los Angeles to Sao Paulo, from Minneapolis to London, Black Lives Matter is a cry and demand heard around the world.

The message of this movement is powerfully simple: Stop killing Black people-in their homes, in the streets, and traveling by sea to safer shores. Yet in its simplicity it contains the seed of a radical transformation in our planetary system, raging against a racist dispossession machine to bring about collective and communal liberation everywhere.

The last decade has seen a radical shift in two terrifying directions: turning inward and taking drastic action. A new cohort of authoritarixs has rejected international cooperation in a retreat into the nation-state and its ancient myths of blood and soil. A new set of surveillance technologies has made us retreat further, reinforcing and militarizing state control over our communities. In addition, the onset of the Covid-19 pandemic has forced us into greater isolation, introducing in some cases the threat of a permanent state of emergency and associated martial law.

Around the world, protest movements are rising and spreading. In the streets of Santiago, young Chileans demonstrated against the widespread conditions of poverty, precariousness and police violence. Across India, millions of activists faced racism and anti-Muslim violence from the Modi government. And in Lebanon, demonstrators have challenged the closure to demand their basic rights to food, water, health care and education.

These are the planetary conditions in which protests have erupted across the United States. However, there is something exceptional about these protests - if only that they expose a deep rift in the doctrine of "American exceptionalism". We cannot ignore the particular hypocrisy of the hegemon, which boasts to the world of its "mission accomplished" and the freedoms granted while oppressing its black, brown and native populations in its own land. Nor should we overlook the openness that these protests have generated to break with this hegemonic power and move towards a decolonized and multipolar world.

An opening is an opening, not a guarantee. The scenes that have emerged from these international protests are those of a system at a breaking point. But there is no guarantee of the direction in which it will break down. It would be a grave mistake to underestimate the reactionary forces and their ability to seize the current opportunity to advance their repressive vision of "LAW & ORDER! (LAW & ORDER!), as President Trump so succinctly tweeted.

Our challenge, now and as always, is to organize: to turn these spontaneous expressions of solidarity into an enduring international movement to dismantle institutions of racist state violence and investigate human rights abuses by U.S. police departments, its prison system, and in particular its military.

That is why we founded Progressive International: to make solidarity more than a slogan. The marches in cities like Auckland and Amsterdam have sent an important signal to the US Government that the world is watching. But witnessing is not enough. Our task is to demonstrate the ways in which our solidarity can go beyond borders to give meaningful support to people fighting unequal battles in thousands of places around the world.

That means learning from the struggles of people against state violence, as in the case of the Lebanese activists who compiled a toolkit for protesters across the United States. That means providing resources, where possible, to support victims of police violence and their families. And it means identifying our respective roles in this planetary system, wherever we live, and delivering justice in our own communities.

Not all solidarity is equal. All too often, expressions of outrage about what's happening "over there" serve as a mask to ignore, dismiss, or somehow minimize the ritual violence that occurs here. Those Europeans marching to withdraw funds from the Minneapolis police could demand that their own governments stop funding Frontex, the EU border authority responsible for illegal expulsions and deportations across the Mediterranean.

The same thing happens in the opposite direction. The expansion of the US empire through the unlimited financing of its military-industrial complex has caused a boomerang effect in the country itself, arming the local police forces with the same equipment that the US has deployed in its endless wars abroad. If the protests in the United States are to give rise to a new sense of solidarity among its citizens, they must be extended to all the populations that have suffered from US imperial aggression and sustained occupation, especially the native populations on whose dispossession the nation itself was founded.

The infrastructure of the racist police is already international. Law enforcement agencies in the United States are trained by the Israeli army. U.S. arms producers supply police forces throughout Brazil. US companies provide the Indian government with surveillance technology. And American methods of stop-and-frisk (detention and search) in minority neighborhoods have been exported around the world.

The task of our Progressive International is to take stock of this international infrastructure - to listen to the activists and organizers who have dedicated their lives to this struggle - and to work with them to dismantle it: brick by brick, dollar by dollar, police department by police department."


Noam Chomsky, Hilda Heine, Ece Temelkuran, Gael García Bernal, Áurea Carolina, Celso Amorim, Renata Avila, Srecko Horvat, Scott Ludam, Carola Rackete, Yanis Varoufakis, John McDonnell, Andres Arauz, Alicia Castro, David Adler, Aruna Roy, Nikhil Dey, Ertuğrul Kürkçü, Nick Estes, Paola Vega and Eli Alcorta Gomez

Link to Progressive International:

The rest / Re: George Floyd murder and blowback
« on: June 05, 2020, 10:01:28 AM »
In this forum there are hundreds of news and science information enough for all of us to make a radical change in the way we live.
But not even the 'conscious' members of the forum dare doing so (with glorious exceptions).

From Wili:
We're not eager to get back to normal

We're planning on how to go forward

to something that will be better

than the old fucking normal...

I have to keep thinking that part of our evolution as humanity has been becoming more and more domesticated.

Is so easy for a human to live in a bubble of illusion!

Again, all my support, Wili and rest of 'brothers'
Love and Change!

There are different scythes for different uses. The one on the photo; short and wide, is used with brambles and fern, and won't get as much sharpening as the one used with grass, which is the long and narrow one that most people recognize.
Is not easy, as some might have notice, to use the hammer and the thingy. It can take an hour to get some results and you have to be very careful of not doing it to strongly and not going past the moment when the blade would break.
The thingy is a traditional tool called cabruña in this area, I don't even know the name in Spanish. Preparing the scythes was more an old man job. They used to nail the cabruña in the soil, sat on the floor, and use their legs to control the blade. I prefer to do it sat on a bench because I find it less tiring, but more tricky.

Here we use the scythe regularly.
Is important to learn to use both arms and not your right hand as directors of the movement.
But for us the most important part is having the cutting edge like a razor blade, other way is very hard and difficult.
To achieve this we use first the instrument that you can see in the photo. Placing the edge or the blade on the top of the iron thingy and then hammer the edge of the blade till you get a very thin edge that can tehn be sharpened like a razor blade.

Walking the walk / Re: Gardening
« on: May 17, 2020, 10:39:05 AM »
Here, in the wild, we started the year with amazingly sunny warm days. Everything came out too soon. Then this colder and very rainy spring dropped almost all cherries down and, a part from some apples, the rest of tree fruits disappeared. I'm not allowed to have a greenhouse, so all my summer orchard is being planted now (too late)
I have never seen so many slugs in my whole life. A week ago I counted 48 in a mere 2x2m plot. They are even climbing the house's walls and getting into the pots.
It is really a strange season, but the caws, goats and sheep are very happy, the grass has growth so much it's difficult to walk through it.

The forum / Re: Forum Decorum
« on: May 11, 2020, 03:54:38 PM »
Thanks a lot Vox, that's the way!

"Even if it were possible to get rid of swearing, it is doubtful we would actually want to. In fact, swearing can actually benefit us and our workplaces. People who can recall the most swearwords also tend to have better general linguistic abilities. A study of 75,000 Facebook users found that those who swore more on their pages were also likely to be more honest. A lab experiment found that people who were asked to swear while pedalling on an exercise bike went faster than those who were asked to repeat a neutral word. Swearing also helps people to tolerate pain and can help a work group pull together and bond. Swearwords are also great for blowing off stress or dispelling tensions without having to resort to physical violence. They also are ideal for grabbing someone’s attention.

Foul language may trigger strong emotional reactions in some snowflakes. But when foul language is used in the right way, it can be good for us and our workplaces. Those who are upset by swearing at work are unlikely to find a “safe space” to shelter from F-bombs. Perhaps it is time that they find something else to be offended about."

Consequences / Re: COVID-19
« on: May 10, 2020, 11:30:27 AM »
Quote from Oren
I am getting somewhat tired of this. Almost every time a new fact is posted in this scientific thread on this scientific forum ( e.g. a dangerous but rare condition affects some children) someone starts ranting about fear mongering and Trump and the media and what have you. Surprisingly that someone is the respected admin who taught us so diligently not to derail threads and not engage in meta-discussions... can't this be discussed elsewhere? Leave this thread for science.  What is the R? The IFR? Do lockdowns make a difference? Does reopening make a difference? What do models say? What is the disease progress or decline in various countries? What various policies are enacted?
E.g. Do you think IFR is lower and flu-like? Post statistics models and estimates supporting this. Is anyone on this thread fear mongering? Report them to moderator! Will the disease affect Trump reelection? Discuss in the politics section. Do Trump's policies affect disease progression? Discuss here. Massive transfer of wealth? Discuss in the COVID economics thread. But for heaven's sake please let this thread breathe a little.


Walking the walk / Re: Gardening
« on: May 05, 2020, 11:47:04 AM »
With respect freezing and sunflowers I found the next article from an Argentine University. It is only in Spanish but this is the translation for the interesting paragraph (South Hemisphere):

"The sunflower is the most frost-resistant crop in its germination stage, as it has a low germination temperature. But if frost occurs in its flowering stage it destroys the plant. Late-sowing sunflowers are not damaged by late frosts in September-October as they occur in frost-resistant vegetative periods; on the other hand, early-sowing sunflowers are affected by their premature sowing date, in their critical phase such as the beginning of flowering.

In the case of other crops, the most critical and vulnerable moment is the first phase of germination-emergence. In these crops, mainly in spring, a great sensitivity to sudden changes in temperature begins. A frost in spring can affect the plant, reducing its yield and even causing its death.
"The damage caused by frost is caused more by the stage of the crop in which it is found than by the intensity of the meteorological phenomenon" explained Professor Martínez Jiménez.

She added that the autumn frosts have shown practically no negative influence on the crops."

Walking the walk / Re: Gardening
« on: May 04, 2020, 11:29:31 AM »
Thanks nanning for sharing your experiences with the garden.
A couple of comments.
My experience with sunflower is that you need them to be already growing by April, otherwise they won't be able to dry before wet and low sun time comes after August and the seeds will rotten.
Almost the same with tomatos. With these the main danger is an excess of humidity in the soil and/or the leaves.

In your little gardening space you are suffering, surrounded by rich people, what Grecian (& others) are living with respect of their rich neighborhood.   :-\ >:(

Is the Netherlands becoming a target because of their strong opposition to the so called corona bonds?

In the Netherlands, as in everywhere, there are good people and foul souls. You can find, probably, the best ethic Bank and the worse kind of psychopathic billionaires. The politicians in charge at the moment are neocons with psychopathic and racist behavior. You can call that good reasons. Every selfish person will be with you.
It has been pointed out before, but climate deniers take that same position and will not change their BAU way of living "for good reasons"


Is not new but now is much more disgusting, repulsive, how the Netherlands (and Luxembourg) are Paradise islands always ready to bleach black money and send cooperation to hell.

The forum / Re: Who would like to take over the ASIF?
« on: April 10, 2020, 11:33:48 AM »
Thanks a lot for your work Neven, this has become our second home for some of us.
And I'm happy thinking you are not disappearing but relaxing on your duties.

Oren, bc, Terry, Kassy, would be great people to take over. And some others who haven't offered themselves.
As a scientific forum no other rule than the search for knowledge should be considered, IMHO.

Consequences / Re: COVID-19
« on: March 31, 2020, 11:44:35 AM »
Can any of the experts comment on this Nature article?
In 2015 in the USA a virus just like the covid19 was produced in lab. In theory they tried to hide it and stopped that line of research.

Not to blame anybody (gods sake!), but to know if those experiments could offer some help today.
Thanks pmt.

Policy and solutions / Re: Lessons from COVID-19
« on: March 30, 2020, 09:53:28 PM »
Nanning, plants and animals know nothing about covid, although they notice less noise, pollution and human pressure. I guess they like this, don't you think? Saying the biosphere is happy is a way of pointing this.

Policy and solutions / Re: Lessons from COVID-19
« on: March 30, 2020, 12:41:37 PM »
From the point of view of a non human member of the biosphere, these are the lessons of a David vs. Goliath story.
The biosphere is happy because its tricks to keep the wonderful homeostasis between the different members of its community are still working (apparently).
As any other plague, our huge and extremely successful population boom is the main reason for our demise.
If humans can not understand and learn and apply this knowledge there's no future for us.
My little thoughts.

Consequences / Re: COVID-19
« on: March 28, 2020, 02:37:18 PM »
First numbers comparing normal death in this time of the year with the impact of the virus. In Spain.
Translated with Deepl from ""

The impact on lives and health of the coronavirus epidemic in Spain is very high and has not yet abated. Although the speed of death has slowed in all communities, this Saturday reached the 5,690 official deaths by adding 832 in 24 hours. The COVID-19 has been felt very strongly and has almost doubled the usual mortality in many areas of Spain such as Castilla y León, Castilla-La Mancha, Madrid, Aragón or Navarra. On a national level, the excess of deaths over the historical series between 21 and 25 March was 16.7%, according to the latest report published by the Carlos III Institute of Health.

On those days, the expected deaths in Spain (obtained from historical averages based on the mortality observed on 1 January 2008) were 5,661. Deaths from all causes: the observation does not distinguish between causes as it is based on data submitted by 3,900 civil registries. Those finally observed reached 6,609, an excess of 948. However, the panorama is very different according to Autonomous Community. There were "excess deaths" in Aragón, Castilla y León, Castilla-La Mancha, Catalunya, Comunitat Valenciana, Comunidad de Madrid and Navarra according to the situation report of 26 March 2020.

The two castes are the ones that have suffered an acceleration in mortality. Both exceed 93% excess. In Castile and Leon, the statistics estimated that 498 deaths could be expected from 18 to 25 March and 964 were observed. In Castile-La Mancha (between the 15th and 25th of this month) there were 1,137 real deaths compared to the average of 558. Another aspect that points to the effect of the COVID-19 is that the groups most affected by the increase in mortality were men (with more than 100% excess) and the ages of over 74 in Castile and Leon and 65 to 74 in Castile-La Mancha, which more than doubled the volume of deaths. According to studies carried out since the first outbreak in Wuhan (China), men and the elderly are the group with the worst diagnosis of infection.

In Aragon, from March 23rd to 25th, according to the Carlos III Institute of Health, the excess reached 75% and the group with the worst unemployment was that of 65 to 74 years of age, which long doubled its mortality: from 12 estimated to 25 reais. In the Autonomous Community of Navarre, it jumped from a historical estimate of 48 deaths to the 90 recorded. Once again, the age between 65-74 years saw a rise of 133% (from 6 to 14) and that of over 74 years of 97%: 70 deaths as opposed to the average of 36.

However, in the epicenter of the epidemic in Spain, the Community of Madrid, the data are much more behind. The system has detected an excess mortality between 10 and 17 March of 71%: 1,548 deaths compared to the 904 expected.

The Daily Mortality Surveillance (MoMo) system applies to all causes of death and in providing the results it does not specify whether the deceased had been included in the official coronavirus count, which only feeds into records where a case has been confirmed by a test as positive for COVID-19. That is, there may be deaths of patients with coronavirus that are not officially attributed to that statistic.

In addition, the report details that "at present we observe a delay in the notification of deaths in the civil registries of several autonomous communities, being notable in Galicia, Community of Madrid and La Rioja".

Policy and solutions / Re: Lessons from COVID-19
« on: March 25, 2020, 08:59:45 PM »
Some people already have all the answers  :o  ::)

RALPH DROLLINGER, a minister who leads a weekly Bible study group for President Donald Trump’s cabinet, released a new interpretation of the coronavirus pandemic this week, arguing that the crisis represents an act of God’s judgment.
“Relative to the coronavirus pandemic crisis, this is not God’s abandonment wrath nor His cataclysmic wrath, rather it is sowing and reaping wrath,” wrote Drollinger. “A biblically astute evaluation of the situation strongly suggests that America and other countries of the world are reaping what China has sown due to their leaders’ recklessness and lack of candor and transparency.”
Neither does he miss a chance to condemn those who worship the “religion of environmentalism” and express a “proclivity toward lesbianism and homosexuality.” These individuals, Drollinger argues in “Is God Judging America Today?”, one of the minister’s posts about coronavirus pandemic, have infiltrated “high positions in our government, our educational system, our media and our entertainment industry” and “are largely responsible for God’s consequential wrath on our nation.”

Consequences / Re: COVID-19
« on: March 23, 2020, 10:34:48 AM »
In this article there are good statistics (official) about the Spanish case.
You can see the distribution of deads and affected people is the same we have been seeing through age. But it is not specified if there were health problems in advance.
Considering the proportion of smokers, previously ill people, obesity, etc, won't differ that much between Western countries looks clear what to expect.
(The article is in Spanish, sorry)

Consequences / Re: COVID-19
« on: March 19, 2020, 02:30:48 PM »
 Most of us are wondering if this is gonna become personal, that's getting sick with the corona, or when getting sick. I wish the best for all.
But as we are also worried about the climate change "pandemic", what about looking at it in the same way?
Our "green revolution" last century was somehow parallel, with differences in time, to our "sanitary revolution". The victory over most infectious diseases, the victory over the land and their inhabitants to produce food. The two of them made the population boom possible.
Now we can see the backlash of the green deal and maybe find some useful knowledge from there.
The total biomass of humanity and his animals is about 90% of the world total (mammals), more or less. Ecologists say parasites are needed to keep this biosphere in order. We are gathering in megacities more and more (as it did the size of farms), plages and pandemics look as a the normal and natural things to expect in this way of living. Parasites will keep evolving to be able to use the most of the world biomass and with so little diversity to focus on, all mutations targeting humans would be favored by this fact.
What do you think?

(Don't look at us, people who has radically change their way of living, as preppers but as people who want to live in harmony with nature and be consequent with the way we think)

Consequences / Re: Global recession
« on: March 18, 2020, 10:38:29 PM »
Naomi klein view.
Coronavirus capitalism - and how to beat it

Consequences / Re: COVID-19
« on: March 15, 2020, 10:52:24 AM »
This is what should be expected in days like these. Maybe some of the very bright people in this forum could help, or get in touch with some who could help!

Doctors, engineers, designers and more professional volunteers have started to organize themselves telematically to develop cheap and fast ventilation solutions for patients infected with coronavirus. Respirators are a necessary input to care for those affected, who arrive with symptoms such as fever and dry cough, and could double in the coming days in Spain, according to the government. Faced with a possible scenario in which these high-tech devices are missing, experts are seeking to provide open source plans to replicate the simplest devices easily.

Jorge Barrero @Jorge_barrero_f

Esta mañana 25 médicos, ingenieros, emprendedores, makers hemos creado un grupo de WhatsApp para pensar posibles soluciones baratas y rápidas de ventilación de pacientes. Ahora descubro no estamos solos... nos sumamos a Open Source Ventilator Project! #cheapVentilators
Colin Keogh 🛠 @ColinJ_Keogh

Calling all #doctors, #Engineers and #Designers? Join the amazing Open Source Ventilator Project to give your time and expertise to help develop low-cost ventilators to fight #COVID19.

I joined the fight via #coronavirus #COVID2019IRELAND #technology
Ver imagen en Twitter

As the number of infected people in the country grows and hospitals fill up, the conversation in a Telegram group that already has more than 580 participants did not stop this Friday morning. Dozens of professionals were racing against the clock to develop a cheap, simple-to-use and easy-to-manufacture device:

-I'm now taking the fan model and modifying it to make an outline; I already have the pseudo code of the software.

-We need someone with knowledge of pneumology.

-Should it mimic a typical bottle respirator? -I'm not sure.

-I have a 3-D printer, if that's what it takes.

The ideas added up; there were moments of "chaos", according to some participants; someone created an Excel of volunteers that grew with the passing of the hours; an anaesthetist from Tenerife and an engineer from Geneva signed up; suddenly, someone began to speak in English; videos from Youtube were exchanged about past solutions, information from printed manuals, hand sketches... Reflection advanced.

"There are many people who are very interested in doing something. So putting collective intelligence to work is not a bad thing," says David Cuartielles, an engineer and founder of Arduino, a free software and hardware development company. He adds: "It serves as a catharsis, but it can also help to arrive at a valid technical solution.

In the next few days, there will be more people infected with coronavirus, according to the Ministry of Health. The president, Pedro Sánchez, has declared a state of alarm for 15 days and does not rule out that the number of infected people will reach 10,000 next week. In Madrid, for example, where almost half of the infections in Spain are concentrated, the regional executive has announced that hotels, residences and homes will begin to function as makeshift hospitals.

"If we witness a very high peak, the capacities to provide assistance are limited because equipment is very expensive and hospitals cannot have hundreds of teams waiting for a pandemic outbreak. Hence the question: can we do something perhaps not so sophisticated but which solves or helps in this situation," biochemist Jorge Barrero, director of the Cotec Foundation and promoter of another initiative called Innovative Breathing Assistance (IBA), questioned this Thursday.

The biochemist was "desperate" after a week at home and concerned about "being useful" in this pandemic, which has killed more than 5,000 people worldwide. He contacted three experts, who believed that it was possible to develop or adapt some "not-so-advanced" technology to provide an emergency service, and set up a WhatsApp team, which soon grew to include about twenty other professionals.

In less than 24 hours, they defined three lines of action with parallel roadmaps to look for "diverse solutions". They are working on it. One line of work aims to develop simple, cheap, rapid manufacturing and distribution systems from scratch; another seeks to adapt pre-existing technology, such as that used by apnoea sufferers; the last one aims to support the industry that manufactures these devices to "get there sooner and with more" supplies.

A hundred experts - some "from the trenches" and others from home - have made themselves available to this initiative, according to Barrero, and are now being organised under the coordination of Tecnalia, a public technology centre in the Basque Country. The development has just begun. "There is no solution, there is a team analysing various strategies. It may be that an interesting result will be reached, several or none", says Barrero.

The biochemist points out that "there are several technologies" that the experts will be able to contemplate. "For example, there are systems that can be used only with the patient asleep; others that can be used with the patient awake, but not for long; some are more efficient, others are simpler to manufacture or less expensive... There is a whole world and the debate now is where we are going to aim the shot to make some useful contribution.

More professionals are working from other groups, although in the same direction and connected. "People keep writing and they've managed themselves. It's nice to see how they have come together," says Esther Borao, an industrial engineer specializing in automation and robotics and director of the Instituto Tecnológico de Aragón, which created the Telegram group that brings together 580 professionals almost in parallel to Borrero.

Borao points out that "there are many challenges" now, but stresses that "the biggest" is that "people are at home so that there are no more infections and hospitals are not saturated. "I hope we don't need respirators," he said.

In other countries, such as the United States and China, similar initiatives have been launched almost at the same time and, on Twitter, the English hashtag #cheapventilators (cheap respirators, in Spanish) has emerged. "We are not alone. If it's not us, someone will get an answer. It's about working in cooperation," Barrero says.

"We have to understand that we are all connected and that the virus' capacity to infect is the same that we have to achieve so that the right messages are spread and the initiatives escalate," defends the biochemist. Barrero assures that to "fight the virus" it is important to act "as a single super-organism": "We cannot live this as an individual disease, because it is not".

Translated with the help of Deepl, from ""

The forum / Re: Forum Decorum
« on: March 14, 2020, 12:07:14 PM »
My support, pietkuip!
I don't want to say anything wrong about A-team. I did once and regret having done so. He is way too much respected in this forum, so any critics would bring bad emotions on to you.
But you are right and his answer is, at least, childish, in my humble opinion.
I worked more than 15 years in charge of a lab in Valencia University and we had to suffer a professor who was so full of himself that, in petit comite he would admit that his books were written not to be understood, that way he was considered more intelligent, so much that most people could not follow him. This extremely pathetic story is totally true.
I'm not saying this is the case with A-team, don't know enough of him. <snip, irrelevant, personal information; N.>
I'm adding these lines because I'm very conscious of all my mistakes, I admit my ignorance, but want to push for a bit of humbleness for everyone in this forum.

Here in the north of Spain the weather looks a bit crazy. Look the difference  a couple of days make. Photos were taken 100 meters away each other.

The politics / Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« on: March 03, 2020, 04:04:01 PM »
About the influence of mass media and internet

"In the modern world we know, the mass media – television, radio, and the internet – function as humanity’s collective nervous system linking billions of people worldwide. The problem is these media are failing big time when it comes to serving the public as honest brokers of information and understanding."

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