Support the Arctic Sea Ice Forum and Blog

Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.

Messages - JackTaylor

Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 5
A 'snippet' from AbruptSLR link above.  Thanks
"So the presidents of universities, congregations, and think tanks, other nonprofits are now kissing wealthy posteriors as never before."
Should they receive nominations for the annual Equine Posterior Achievement Award?

It's been around forever - more BAU, IMHO.

The same as knowing which side your bread is buttered on,
knowing who butters your bread.

Bruce - sorry about reply delay - off on other tangents.

We have sold some young breeding pairs and it is interesting seeing other farmers wanting to grow pigs out in pasture again. Confinement operations are a sad sad thing, miserable.
Kinda walking back ag science but maybe the illusive dollar isn't worth the misery it sometimes causes.
Pasture/grass fed - free range seems to be gaining a lot of momentum in what I see.  Annual/Winter Rye Grass Seed has become a very big seller.   A lot of it is based on the illusive dollar around here, along with the healthier food concept.  No small farmers becoming millionaires - but - advertising and availability for "local organic" seems as if it's becoming big business.  No longer a part-time pursuit of folks - it's their only source of income.  If I was about 20 - 30 years younger, instead of mid-70's, believe I would be right there with them. 

Non-industrial Food is gaining by leaps and bounds, it's amazing and 'oh' so gratifying.

Now this is scary, but worth repeating and re-linking:
"After decades of rearing hogs, Danish farmer IbBorup Pedersen was alarmed at the growing incidence of malformations and biological defects among his newborn piglets. Deformities included gaps in piglets’ skulls, deformed bones, missing limbs and even a female piglet with testicles."

This a 'rant' - and off topic - I've said it before, but I'm going to say it again"
"Arctic Ice Melting caused by Anthropogenic (man-made) Global Warming - AGW-
Genetically Modified Organisms -GMO's - particularly where herbicide -n- pesticide residue accumulates up the food chain
will eventually
be the down fall of the Republican Party in the United States.

And it will happen long before any collapse.

I do have a question in my mind,
? How do small self sustaining growers/farmers protect themselves in the future, not only from giant industrial agriculture corporations, but also from marauding - hungry - unscrupulous - dangerous  people willing to thieve and perhaps kill for a meal ?

We ain't seen nothing yet.


~ ~ I hope Jack is still willing to share some of his memories with us. ~ ~

Regretable hearing about the sow but happy to learn some of the litter survived.

Believe it or not I do not remember having ever been present for assisting in birth of any farm animal.

We did have in our community an older couple that would attend cow (calf) and mare (foal) births.
One old vet about 10-12 miles away, but unusual to find him 'sober' especially at night.

Don't remember anybody working with hogs-pigs, maybe we were lucky or I didn't hear about it.
Feed'em  - slaughter'em - salt & cure - eat'em is what's in my old memory.

BTW: You mention "market orders" - hope you're doing well toward the "prosciutto market."

Policy and solutions / Re: UN Climate Agreement - Paris 2015 and beyond
« on: February 07, 2015, 08:32:06 AM »
"as the global wealth inequality and the effects of climate change continue to unfold, we will see an increase in anti-capitalist rhetoric from the environmental community and when it becomes a main cause, we will see the mechanisms of the police state that has been growing in America engage, far beyond what has been seen so far."

bold emphasis is my add and somewhat off topic

Yes, in a country such as the United States we are progressing towards a "Police State".  It will be business as usual (BAU) as long as Law Enforcement and Military/Reserve/National Guard personnel believe their existence, role in society, and well being are dependent on serving those calling the shots (instituted government - "ruling hierarchy").

   Stop and give these some thought.  The number of people supporting law enforcement: local police departments, constables-marshals, county/parish sheriff departments, state troopers, state bureau investigation agencies, with all the excess (surplus) military equipment - hardware.  Then add in all the people in federal agencies.   Loyal to their leaders to a fault?

   Sounds like a plan is being steadily being implemented,
( my version of paranoia ).

   There are so many people supporting the "ruling hierarchy" we will continue as is - until a catastrophic event occurs.

   When conditions disturb sufficient numbers of people to cause them take action for change is when the real clash will occur and things get nasty.

   Without an event to cause the overwhelming majority of people to simultaneously take action against BAU - ALL the good intentioned rhetoric will only make for some lively discussions.

   The dimwit gun activist with their individual firearms don't stand a chance at protecting against an oppressive (police state) government.  Their claims of Second Amendment Rights are plain and simple paranoia unless they are members of a large "state supported" - and well organized - militia.

   Don't worry, when the remaining majority of the population is forced into obtaining (producing) food, the police state will go away for awhile.

damn, what a pessimistic post

Policy and solutions / Re: The 2014 US elections and climate policy
« on: November 09, 2014, 10:17:56 AM »
Being as most of my neighbors refer to me as a "dim lib" (polite term)
I find a lot of opinions on 'politics' leaving me wondering "where did they come from?"

Back in the days of old the area where I live was a Democratic Stronghold.
Now it is one of the most right-wing Republican areas of the country. 
Influenced tremendously by southern religions.
( Greenville, South Carolina - Home of Bob Jones University; check college history )

Having never missed voting in an election for more Fifty (50) Years, discussing with
a fellow DEM popped the question of
"Name the last Republican Speaker of the House of Representatives prior to Newt Gingrich?"

Then he asked me about the "Political Pendulum" ( cyclical theory ) which he had previously heard me talking about.

So let me sum it for you.

Republicans do not have staying power. 
We DEM's will be back soon to clean up their mess.

Unless they create another "Great Depression" their damage will be temporary and easily survivable.

Will their Greed get busted like the Trusts by Teddy Roosevelt?

What makes this forum valuable to me is my belief Global Warming along with opposition to GMO's will within twenty (20) to fifty (50) years will be the downfall of republicans.

Lead in gasoline lost.
Acid rain lost, will it be revived?
DDT lost.
perfluorocarbons (PFCs) lost, argue about winner.

There is a long list of things "We Democratic Liberals" have accomplished.
how many items can you add to the list?

Not to worry we'll be back ( after racial hatred is put on the back burner ).

Walking the walk / Re: Gardening
« on: September 17, 2014, 12:15:40 PM »
   ~ ~ --
   I have been feeding the acorns to the pigs without leaching them. There aren't books on how you go about feeding acorns to pigs so I am kinda winging it. I know in Spain they have a practice of dehesa, putting the pigs out to pasture to feed on acorns but they also have different oak trees in Spain( maybe less tannic). I am feeding small amounts to pigs going off to market in a couple months. I am not feeding the more tannic red oak this year. The Mangalitza pigs I raise are a very fat pig and can reach 50% body fat .
~ ~ --
WOW Bruce,

You do know how to evoke some memories I had not considered for over 50 years.
A good high-fat and free food.  That ought to increase the price/lb for prosciutto

Back then, in the foothills of Western North Carolina, gathering acorns for the pigs was a big deal if they could not be "free ranged" to root for themselves.

Horse (mule) drawn wagons full from the hills and hollars .
But, can't compare to the 'tales' of chestnuts (tons) collected according to some of my dearly departed much older relatives - community friends.

Arctic sea ice / Re: The 2014 Melting Season
« on: September 17, 2014, 11:52:51 AM »
Well, looking at Wipneus' thread it has already ended.


Regardless of the exact date/time end of the melting season,
congratulations and Thank-You for making the blog & forum
available again this year.

I truly enjoyed the coverage provided by everyone  :)


Walking the walk / Re: Manure - Hazards for Gardeners
« on: August 26, 2014, 12:17:15 PM »
Jack, Maybe I'm just romanticizing poverty but it sounds kinda fun and I bet your feet were easier to clean than an old pair of tennis shoes.
Boy - you ain't right - romanticizing poverty !

Well I guess it depends how you define poverty.
Back then many country folks were "money poor" but many were also "dirt rich"
no, I had many - many resources to live with.
I had the good fortune of being forced to eating more steak, roast beef, bacon, pork chops, sausage, ham, fried & baked chicken - more farm grown vegetables & fruits than you can imagine.
Biscuits, cornbread, cakes, and pies still coming out my ears.
Enough cholesterol in diet to give everyone a heart attack by 50.
Very little or no money with no electricity - no running water - no indoor plumbing - no telephone, - so did I experience poverty?

Also only got one pair of tennis shoes each year - could only wear those on the floor of the gym,
because if your Chuck Taylor All-Stars were dirty it was claimed they would scratch and ruin the finish on gym floors.

Science / Re: Carbon Cycle
« on: August 17, 2014, 01:25:50 PM »
Bruce Steele August 13, 2014.
"So you my friends get to watch my struggles"
Well continue to keep us posted.
Ocean "food" (seafood) is dear to my heart & belly.

Also, about the post above I made on "size of the catch"
some people are starting to discuss (blame) fertilizer run-off from the Mississippi River
and it's "dead zone" feeding the Gulf Stream which flows near Key West, Florida
as a contributing factor for reduction in size, not just over-fishing.  ?  ?  ?

Walking the walk / Re: Manure - Hazards for Gardeners
« on: August 17, 2014, 12:44:45 PM »
So, is it safe to step in it?  ;)
Don't know haven't tried that lately.  But, when I was a kid back in the 1940's and 50's,
those cold November mornings, going out to milk the cows, with no shoes on because we hadn't got money from the first bale of cotton, a fresh patty was nice to step in, warmed my feet real good when there was frost on the ground.

Walking the walk / Manure - Hazards for Gardeners
« on: August 16, 2014, 11:50:06 AM »
Hot Topic
Russ Poston, Home & Garden Information Center
"Many homeowners consider manure to be a safe, organic fertilizer for use in the flower or vegetable garden.  The belief is that manure is something that is naturally produced, and therefore, is a safe product to use. So why is it that after application of some manures, plants show symptoms of damage? These symptoms can include leaves that are twisted, cupped and elongated; fruit that is deformed; reduced yield; death of young plants; and poor seed germination."
I have been very busy this summer with outside activities - will be back for more participation with you folks when the weather turns cold.

My brother-in-law, whom I consider to be a very good gardener, had the worst garden this year ever experienced.  In late winter - early spring ( before planting) he decided to add extra compost to his garden.  Over twenty ( >20 ) bags of low cost big box store manure.  Three ( 3 ) time he's planted "Green Beans" - each time they sprout, get about six ( 6 ) inches high, wilt and die - and it's not from a lack of water.  Reminds one of weeds sprayed with "Weed-b-Gone."
He does not spray for weed control - tills and hoes.

Beware of Big Box Stores Bags of Manure
If you don't know where it came from and whats in it ! ! ! ! !
Killer Compost Reports: Contaminated Manure and Herbicide Contamination Damaging Gardens
 "Since 2005, thousands of farmers and gardeners who have simply applied compost or mulch to their gardens or fields have unknowingly poisoned their own crops. These tragedies happened — and are still happening — because of potent, persistent herbicides including clopyralid and aminopyralid."

Read more:

For more information Google a search "manure herbicide"

p.s. - hope you were not expecting advice to not step in it.

Science / Re: Carbon Cycle
« on: July 28, 2014, 03:20:28 PM »

#1. Good to hear NPR has activity on the west coast about conditions of fisheries.
East coast activity - from my 1960's "stomping grounds" -  linked below the dashed line.

#2.  Congratulations for not taking a NIMBY position on closing/protecting fisheries.
It must have took some soul searching to voice that - hope your fisherman peers are not too tough on you.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

I do not believe carbon caused the reduction in size of catches.  What's the opinion of others?

From NPR Article "Big Fish Stories Getting Littler" by Robert Krulwich
with further reference from research work by Loren McClenachan
"Documenting Loss of Large Trophy Fish from the Florida Keys with Historical Photographs"
A very interesting article

mid 1960's

mid 1980's

mid 2000's

Policy and solutions / Re: Renewables Reach a Tipping Point...
« on: April 29, 2014, 12:06:54 PM »
~~ poeple can easily outperform such big players. At least they did it allready - 40% of renewable investments here are by private poeple, 20% by farmers and the rest by a lot of companies, cooperations, banks and such. So - no reason to wait for 1999 big companies acting like GE since the poeple can do it (and a lot did it in countries where that was made possible by making other poeple pay for that profit - but better make them pay for other poeple then for the big companies).
It's will be some time for the people in the USA to achieve what you're experiencing across the pond.

We (the people) Are Actually Restricted - Prevented by State Regulations
Not all states are as restrictive as mine, but, about a mile out my backdoor
South Carolina prevents Furman University from using more Solar Power
mostly under the name of all users of public utility paying an equitable amount for "grid maintenance."
Also, a "google" if more interest
And, highly recommend more about obstacles
Introducing Freeing the GRID 2012 from

Forgot to include big electric utilities (power companies) are usually not restricted in capacity when building solar - wind farms which are part of their generation to supply the grid.

Consequences / Re: 2014 El Nino?
« on: April 27, 2014, 04:17:09 PM »
Here is an animation of coral bleaching hotspots in the Eastern Tropical Pacific for the last two months. Yellow indicates potential bleaching.
Hey Bruce - going Off Topic with you, maybe all is not lost,
"Some coral reefs can adapt to temperature change, said researchers from Stanford University. - - - On transplanting colonies of coral from a warm pool to a nearby cool pool and vice versa, researchers found that cool-pool corals adapted to heat with the passage of time. Interesting fact is that researchers found that these corals have rapidly adapted themselves for heat tolerance as it would take generations to achieve through evolution.
Palumbi said that both nature and nurture, effect of environment, plays vital role in deciding the effect of heat tolerance by coral colonies. He claimed that this interesting characteristic of corals helps them in fighting against the effects of global warming."

Policy and solutions / Re: The 2014 US elections and climate policy
« on: April 27, 2014, 03:54:09 PM »
Drinking treated waste water should open up eyes  if residents can make the connection between AGW and droughts.
Glad you you use the word should
Open the eyes of northwestern Texans and western Okies to make the connection between AGW and droughts - as an old saying goes, they'd rather eat shit first before admitting to that.  Looks like they're going to literally, LOL  :o.  If it's OK for Astronauts to drink pee so can we - has a nice ring.

However, as sewer water reclaimation is a world wide practice - it kills my attempt to offer up a pun at their expense.  :'(

Consequences / Re: Pathogens and their impacts
« on: April 23, 2014, 03:01:18 PM »
Perhaps we're further along toward a replacement for the Cavendish than the recent alarms.

In October 2005, almost nine years ago now, The Smithsonian Magazine had an article about
(in Belgium of all places)
Building A Better Banana
It is the world's No. 1 fruit, with millions of people dependent on it to stay alive. Now diseases threaten many varieties, prompting a search for new hybrids of the "smile of nature"
is the online version.

Consequences / Re: Climate change, the ocean, agriculture, and FOOD
« on: April 20, 2014, 10:16:53 AM »
Rising CO2 Levels Threaten Entire Marine Food Chain
NPR Article by Robert Krulwich on Anthropogenic Impact of Fish Size
not actually about CO2 destruction - just another example of us doing bad to make it worse, (especially sport fishing).

With a nice summation in a PDF of quoting Professor Daniel Pauly at the University of British Columbia "shifting baseline syndrome" - because these changes happen slowly, over a human lifetime, they never startle. They just tiptoe silently along, helping us all adjust to a smaller, shrunken world.

We are eating bait instead of asking "are you going to cut bait or go fishing?"

Policy and solutions / Re: Renewables Reach a Tipping Point...
« on: April 15, 2014, 11:25:54 PM »
Jack, FWIW, I had a long look at NiFe batteries, but in the end wasn't convinced (look around in this forum, lots of info and personal experiences as well).

Original Edison batteries might work better, but it still takes a lot of time, work and know-how to run them properly. And even then life isn't unlimited.
Neven, I agree that NiFe batteries for powering Naval Aircraft very unconvincing - weight won't work.

Many things may be said of the US Military, but logistics is not something they tend to slack on.  The Navy in particular has been working for a while to try to cut the fuel umbilical.   The efficiency 22000 liters of sea water to one liter of fuel - is actually not that far off from some values of ore extraction - and does not consider that the recovery is non-destructive and requires little beyond filtering to prepare it for extraction.  It also returns *cleaner* water when done.  The process appears to be catalytic rather than heat driven, so as such at first glance does appear to offer a very good energy storage solution.
jdallen, Yes "cutting the fuel umbilical" is probably the objective of the NRL seawater-to-gasoline research.  I doubt they're doing it to produce gasoline for our automobiles.  Their claim of cost $6 - $8 (USD) per gallon, is that say from the energy from a nuclear powered ship not sailing at full or flank speed.  Perhaps there is some time when an aircraft carrier is not at a high speed for launch and recovery of aircraft requiring less than near full output from nuke reactors for propulsion. Just reducing the cost of accompanying "oiler - refueling" ships could go a long ways toward $10 - $20/gal cost being a payback.

If it has legs (that is if it works out to be feasible) we'll hear more about it within ten years.

Alchemy ( philosophers' stone - Magnum opus) is much older and well before Harry Potter novels - movies.

How long did Navy "coalers" sail the seas?

Policy and solutions / Re: Renewables Reach a Tipping Point...
« on: April 12, 2014, 01:30:50 PM »
"It's still interesting though - as it shows that truly niche applications could still be fed fuel"
Let's wait and see if this one has legs.

Hopefully the NRL researchers will not be ridiculed for chasing something like the philosophers' stone

Policy and solutions / Re: Renewables Reach a Tipping Point...
« on: April 10, 2014, 03:07:19 PM »
Seawater to Gasoline
"Navy researchers at the U.S. Naval Research Laboratory (NRL), Materials Science and Technology Division, demonstrate proof-of-concept of novel NRL technologies developed for the recovery of carbon dioxide (CO2) and hydrogen (H2) from seawater and conversion to a liquid hydrocarbon fuel."
"The predicted cost of jet fuel using these technologies is in the range of $3-$6 per gallon, and with sufficient funding and partnerships, this approach could be commercially viable within the next seven to ten years."

Some loose ends, gasoline (AV-Gas 100/130) vs. Jet Fuel (JP-5 kerosene) ?

$3 - $6 (USD) seems like a good deal, before taxes of course.

Some claims it would help to reduce ocean acidification, a big plus.

Let's wait and see if this one has legs.

Walking the walk / Re: Gardening
« on: April 02, 2014, 11:24:04 PM »
Peat is the largest terrestrial carbon sink, after the oceans, as you remind me. I believe that it stored more carbon per hectare than tropical rainforest, which surprises most people, but may be old hat on a blog so concerned with permafrost on tundra.
Thanks for the information in that post.

Did some more minor seeking information and believe you've convinced to try some "Coconut Coir."

If one claims to be interested in protecting the environment -
a change to ignorant ways is in order.


Walking the walk / Re: Gardening
« on: March 31, 2014, 02:17:55 PM »
use 50% peat moss mixed with 50% perlite (or vermiculite) these are both fairly sterile. I fill the planting trays part way add a slow release fertilizer fill trays up to level with more 50/50 planting mix then press down into trays. This leaves a little depression at the top to drop seeds into. After each little plug or cup get it's seed you add 50/50 mix pack the last time add lightly water. Sometimes the peat is slow to absorb water and you need to lightly water again the next day.
Bruce Steele,
Emphasis (bold) is mine.

Are you willing to share information about the exact slow release fertilizer you use?
Brand if purchased.
Amount per cup/seedling.
etc ..................
I use 1/4 teaspoon per gallon of water 1/week soluble 15/30/15, similar to MiracleGro.
(Brand = Expert Gardener from WalMart believe it or not - I am NOT 100% Organic)
The extra phosphate to get roots better established before re-potting and/or transplanting.
All with about a dozen "grow lamps" in back bedroom.

Compost type for re-potting mix - soil amendment, we have packed red-clay (mud) soil.

I switched to exclusively using a Peat Moss w/Perlite or vermiculite for seed starting years ago.
Germination Rate Very High IMO.  And I've experimented off-n-on for more than 20 years.
Do it for me - relatives - friends, hundreds of plants but not thousands.
The major nurseries in my area use it for seed starting also.
If there is a better "starter mix" at a practical cost - my eyes-ears are open.

Edit/Modified for my educational link, sorry forgot at first.
Starting Seeds Indoors

Walking the walk / Re: Gardening
« on: March 31, 2014, 03:51:57 AM »
Coincidentally we built a worm farm a couple of weeks ago, and put compost worms in it. The worms are still a bit uneasy (not eating that much as of yet), but at least they're not dead.
I need a short tip. My wife has planted seeds a couple of weeks ago, but all of a sudden the small seedlings weren't doing so well. My wife thought it was because of small fruit flies flying around the little pots and getting into the potting soil. She feared that little fruit fly worms were eating the roots,

and so she stuck matches upside down in the soil (I guess for the sulphur). Some seedlings have recovered, but others are getting worse.  I'm not too sure about the matches.

I should be googling this, but then I thought: Arctic Sea Ice Forum!  8)

Any tips?

Congrats on choosing to start a "worm farm" - nothing like "worm castings" IMHO.

Also, small seedlings falling over - shriveling after growing straight up rapidly, long stems
Number One - probably most important -
It could be a lack of "Photosynthesis" -
unless the sunlight is good & bright in your greenhouse it may be necessary to use some "grow lamps" and temperature needs to be high enough.

Suggest to NOT use "potting soil" to start seeds - do as Bruce Steele says "peat moss" w/perlite/vermiculite - price is also better here.

Sulphur reduces the PH of soil - though doubt enough is breaking off the matches to work as it is a time process.  Great to apply (powder/granule) to an area for "Irish Potatoes" a few months before setting eye-seeds, depending on "soil tests."
Has a use as a pesticide, note plants it could be toxic to:

BTW, without an in-sink-garbage-disposal, my wife would probably leave home.
Remember no meat - no grease through the disposal or to the worms.
They do like carbohydrates like cracked wheat/corn and uneaten veggies.

Consequences / Re: Climate change, the ocean, agriculture, and FOOD
« on: March 30, 2014, 05:52:10 PM »
ccg, thanks for that link about lawns vs prairie. I've long known and loved the graphic:

It's why one of the first things I did when I got a house with a yard was to kill most of the lawn grass and replace it with various native graminoids and forbs. Many have now spread to untended pockets of other yards in the neighborhood, I noticed. I may have to cut back a bit on some of those native areas to expand my vegetable garden this year, though.


Nice to see again the graphic you shared, repeated at following Nature link. 

More 'talk' on the rhizosphere (root zone as called by us less educated) highly recommend

Vlad Jovanovic @
sums it up nicely
"Research shows that plants in nature tend to specialize the function of their roots.
To make a long story short, we’ll divide the rhizosphere into two categories:
upper roots, and lower roots.
The upper roots tend to spread throughout the top soil specializing in seeking and up-taking nutrients,
while the lower roots go downward seeking out moisture, specializing in water up-take."
When it's hot and dry, that's why "pretty green lawns" with short roots, usually need extra watering (irrigation) to stay Pretty and Green.


Added a Link in 1st post per your recommendation.

Thanks - JackT

Walking the walk / Re: Gardening -- food-bearing vines to recommend?
« on: March 30, 2014, 03:17:23 PM »
You gardeners on this site have finally made a convert.  For 5 decades, I've had about as much interest in gardening as ditch-digging.  Now, I may be seeing the light.
Here in Maryland, we have a decent growing climate.  Generally adequate rainfall, temperate temps, pretty good soil.
But I live in a townhouse in an area with a homeowner's association.   The available back yard is fenced, and the fence is high and blocks sun from the ground--even weeds barely grow.  But I figure the fence can allow vines to grow on the outer, sunny side, with roots planted legally on the inner, shady side.  But I have NO CLUE what to plant.  Maybe some kind of variety of grape?
I'm almost certainly going to plant some bitter melon, as it is a useful medication for us Type 2 diabetics.  But that's more medicinal than a source of nutrition and calories, so it won't be much.
Any other recommendations?

Welcome to the FORM world of Type 2 Diabetics with high lipids (cholesterol) - my backyard garden work may have saved my life - helped with 75 lb weight loss - wore out a shovel turning soil in limited spaces before getting a couple of powered tillers.  It (gardening) is one form of exercise I don't get bored with, tired yes - bored no.  BTW, it is alleged (not advise) properties of cooked  green chili's help with pancreas Langerhans islets (hint = insulin).
FORM = Fat Old Retired Men

Been down the road with condo living and HOA regs/rules. 
But as Bruce Steel mentioned there are ways to get the Therapy.  American Horticultural Therapy Association

I like trellis/fencing - to some vertical gardening

To an old fashioned Slide Show with this picture/image

Policy and solutions / Re: Better Tomorrows
« on: March 27, 2014, 02:27:37 PM »
Thanks JT. So you took FFA1, did you take any of the others? What did they cover?
Yes, FFAI in my Sophomore year, avoided it as much as I could.  Was intent on leaving rural community (farming/gardening) asap after high school - which I did.  40 years later, I bust my butt to have a backyard garden - one of them "go figure" things.

IIRC it covered a lot of what I would refer back to as Plant Biology Theory, later learned it was Phenology  We had a very good teacher - advisor.
2,3,4 - had animals - machinery - planting&harvesting - field work, but I missed those.



Makes me happy for you to keep giving horticulture precedent over agriculture  :D

Policy and solutions / Re: Better Tomorrows
« on: March 26, 2014, 04:05:31 PM »
Wow, that's a fantastic idea! I've never thought about (or heard anyone else ever mention) something like that: make gardening a classroom subject alongside math, history, and the like. If horticulture was taught at that scale, to all children as a basic subject (which now that I think about it, it really is on par with the others currently taught) we could go quite a long way in establishing food security against possible future disruptions in the centralized industrial ag system.

Back in the days of old, in some places a mandatory course (prerequisite to graduate) in High School, at either Freshman or Sophomore Year,  was in Agriculture - Farming with payment of a small fee and membership in FFA (Future Farmers of America) which we called it.  My school had a curriculum of FFAI, FFAII, FFA111, FFAIV with 2,3,& 4 optional.

FFA is still available to youngsters in some schools - but I don't believe it's mandatory in anymore,  don't see how on first thought this could work at most school locations.

The rest / Re: Introspection on strength of action/communication
« on: March 24, 2014, 02:43:29 PM »
Way off subject but I thought you and Jack might enjoy the history. Ccg your relatives would have probably kicked our asses if we didn't outrun Howe and go all guerilla on him.   
Since Introspection is part of topic title, .............................

I have relatives that fought on both sides of the Revolutionary and Civil Wars.

One great, great, great,,,,,,,,,,, 1802 "Last Will and Testament" Rutherford County Courthouse, NC
also listed who would get his  human property by sex, name, and age.

Should we communicate that all should find a natural source of 'black powder ingredients' should collapse wipe out/end manufacturing? 


-- Corporate manipulation plain and simple --
Bruce, as you have explained in other posts about difficulty of small or family farm,

over the years I've formed the opinion some of the food rules & regs are (lobbied in) to stifle competition and maybe to punish a class of people for voting certain ways or to put heat on a class of politician/bureaucrat for pointing a finger.   
Yes, I have some paranoia, but is it truly false suspicions? 

Science / Re: Carbon Cycle
« on: March 23, 2014, 02:51:32 PM »

On ocean acidification and damage to fishing,
did you see, or am I duplicating, the size of fish caught around Key West, FL over the years.

Big Fish Stories Getting Littler

ccgwebmaster,  thanks for the link*BADV693-1001.txt

it has a link to sheep slaughter ( bolt &/or bullet ) which many idealistic (urban hippies)
should be aware of if forced into survivalist - minimalist way of life.

If they don't have a "blank fired bolt" or a "bullet" for an old firearm is where it really gets to be back to an older lifestyle.  If collapse causes us to go back that far - humane dispatching (killing) will no longer be a concern.  As a youngster there were in-family arguments about saving the pig brains (great with scrambled eggs) cooked in fresh churned butter.  Gets kind of mean-messy to gory from there to describe.

Walking the walk / Re: Chicken Dressing
« on: March 22, 2014, 11:55:47 AM »
Jack, The processed pigs gotta have a USDA stamp on them. Intestines are something the
processor won't deal with. USDA gets very picky about even a few hairs , there aren't many
places left that handle us small producers and I may have to travel to Fresno (  300 miles )
in the near future. This is probably annoying some folks but maybe people should understand
how very difficult it is to run a small operation with the animals getting plenty of space , their manure cleaned up, vegetable treats, whole grains and cooked beans. I honestly can't imagine them on grates and the typical factory operation. I did cook chicken in oil from chitlens a couple nights ago.
Farm life does leave you facing things most people would rather not face but although it's uncomfortable for me too I try to give the animals as good a life as I can. I had 25 farm guests over the other day, I had them scratch the piggies behind their ears ( which they like ) and then smell their hands... No smell.   

The FDA - USDA/FSIS is something good and bad.  For large commercial it needs to be expanded.
( it will shock a lot of people on learning about their permitted amount of "excrement" in canned corn ).

Unfortunately selling ( & giving away) venison (deer "Bambi") and wild boar (pigs "Porky"), etc,,,  supposed  to be inspected live on the hoof before dispatching (slaughter/killing) - don't keep up with it the way I used to.

Personal consumption is a different matter - thank goodness.

Speaking of FDA - California rules/regs, for your vegetables, is there something like
"a roadside market exemption" for "stands" ?

Any loud vocals you hear going around out there about the 2014 Farm Bill

BTW, for the 62' bug you drive, are you a DIY for keeping the valves adjusted?
In case of a severe EMP - CME you shouldn't have to worry about electronic ignition  8)
just getting fuel (or have you modified? ) and lube.

Walking the walk / Re: Chicken Dressing
« on: March 22, 2014, 10:59:06 AM »
Tell me about the rabbits, George....

Jack, any thoughts on raising/dressing rabbits? I'm curiously drawn to them as a backyard protein source. Now getting my wife and daughter on board with that is another matter...

Don't do it anymore, but, if anyone can get past the emotional hang-up of killing and eating "Thumper" or "Peter Cottontail" it is a very good low space use way to go.  Their food costs may seem a bit much for the amount butchered - but - If the point is for knowing where the food comes from or what's in it you probably couldn't do much better.

A lot of information onLine - would guess you may have already checked it out.

Walking the walk / Re: Chicken Dressing
« on: March 21, 2014, 03:24:03 PM »

On frying chicken in Lard.

In the pursuit of prosciutto from your Mangalitsa "Woolies" - anybody scrape the fat off the intestines to render?

Science / Re: Scientists Warn about Abrupt Climate Impacts
« on: March 21, 2014, 02:22:25 PM »
Are you saying that the formation of the isthmus caused the north pole ice house climate to collapse?
I could understand the opposite, as the isthmus would cause increased heat transport into the high latitudes, but how increased heat to the NP results in icehouse formation seems counter-intuitive.

Then again, I am not even remotely a climatologist so this is pure conjecture.
No, I'm not saying that. First asking a question, then wondering if it's logical, and providing a Link.

My reply to you was basically conjecture also because I've read other places about the northward flowing Gulf Stream, caused by the formation of the isthmus, reducing surface level flow from the Arctic causing colder temperature effects to remain and grow up there to produce the ice-house of present.  Also, will have to dig it up, some study that a gradual reducing flow/volume from the Pacific to the Arctic by slowly (mm/yr) reducing the depth of the Bering Strait contributed as the ice pack formed.

Pros and Cons,  they're out there with sometimes conflicting information.
Have you ever seen or heard of a retraction/correction of a study?

Walking the walk / Re: Chicken Dressing
« on: March 21, 2014, 12:45:30 PM »
Neven - OK - Thanks.
The chicken you have cut-up, was it of the type purchased from a butcher - supermarket?
If so, you're in for an amazing experience at first, when doing everything.  Then after numerous it gets boring - but better than going hungry.

Bruce Steele,
I think it's great you can keep chickens with a rooster or two.  In my mind, it ain't natural and it's  awful not to have roosters with the hens.  Everyone should be waking up and getting out of bed when the rooster crows.  Some of the "noise" ordinances we have even outside city limits - zoned residential - are on the agenda for some county councils.

I think many people should hear about small scale "meat for protein production" activities.
Everyone is not a vegetarian.  I don't eat fried chicken anymore if I can avoid it - but baked/broiled/roasted is a regular.  If collapse occurs they need to know how to avoid getting sick/poisoned finding/consuming available calories.

BTW, as a youngster way back when, we fried chicken in Lard.

There is a wealth of information posted online about dispatching (killing), butchering/slaughtering  and others aspects of getting rid of the blood - guts - feathers, so not going to duplicate those good works.  Will post Links by modifying my first post in this thread/topic hopefully to elicit some conversation on differences others prefer/practice.

Walking the walk / Chicken Dressing (Modified for Links in 1st Post)
« on: March 20, 2014, 10:30:02 PM »
In my area many city/town councils are revising animal ordinances to allow limited poultry keeping on private property for eggs, - supposedly for the family/personal consumption only, - say for example six hens and no roosters.

Anyone here processed a backyard grown poult for the table in the past year?
(  )

I met a young couple at a (November) Thanksgiving Dinner who were starting to do more about where their food came from.  They had about ten hens and gave away a few eggs, but, had never slaughtered ( I call it dressing ) a bird.  Went and did one with them and the wife is now a whiz and husband gets a little squeamish.

Neven, would it be taboo to discuss the procedures/gory details.

3.  Third, no need to be boring - vociferous - wealth of information onLine.

2.  Second, because it is the way I was forced (taught) to do as a youngster.  Decapitating.

1.  First Time killing your own chicken - watch this one first, especially the artery severing, (~ 3:20) First time how to butcher slaughter a free range chicken, Advice from rookie to rookie.  Has some nice introduction with a link to an experienced butcher farmboy procedure.
Preface this -
with http://www.    full link below

4. Forum member bkpr recommends

Policy and solutions / Re: Better Tomorrows
« on: March 20, 2014, 10:05:56 PM »
~~ If you're poking fun at me trying to grow okra in colorado ~~
Absolutely NOT.  Trying to be a little light-hearted - yes.

Better Tomorrows ( the future ) hold a change in our diet and as AGW continues to warm things up, Okra fresh from the garden in Colorado will be on a lot of dinner tables.

Since we strayed to foods/eating.

A few of the things I practice for Better Tomorrows:

1. Kill the Cow (it's a movement) - I eat beef only as a last resort type thing;

2. Limit foods with wheat in them - I do not have a gluten intolerance;

3.  Only eat corn-on-the-cob;

Science / Re: Scientists Warn about Abrupt Climate Impacts
« on: March 20, 2014, 01:17:34 PM »

Have you picked-up on anything about 3Mya being close enough to the formation of the Isthmus of Panama for the north pole icehouse climate.

Is it logical?

"about 3 million years ago, an isthmus had formed between North and South America"

Policy and solutions / Re: Better Tomorrows
« on: March 20, 2014, 12:40:54 PM »

If I was still involved in commodities, would you consider it wise for me to try source my yam and taro root shipments out of Wyoming/Montana?

It ain't gumbo if it ain't got okra in it. 
I still prefer it chopped with a light dusting of seasoned corn meal/flour batter and fried in a big-ole cast iron skillet.

BTW, why do some people turn-up their nose at grits but scoff up polenta as a gourmet dish?

Policy and solutions / Re: Better Tomorrows
« on: March 20, 2014, 11:20:59 AM »
Many of the discussions about "the future" on this forum seem to be about "BAU until we all die," or "Global collapse now, then we die."  Perhaps we need a separate thread like this where other, more positive scenarios can be considered?  ~~

Climate change is happening; it's caused by the burning of fossil fuels;  we must stop using fossil fuels as quickly as possible;  climate change is going to get much worse;  it's going to be horribly expensive to act on;  the developing world needs help;  life as we know in the developed world will definitely change -- BUT --
 I do not believe that the total collapse of civilization due to climate change is inevitable. 

Great to see you're not falling for ad populum

Hey, for a lot of us, our diet may change to eating "tropical foods" grown - produced in Canada and Siberia, but I do not believe they'll kill us.

Will there be a discovery for economical extraction of Nitrogen from 'thin air' for a fertilizer component?  (to reduce/eliminate fossil fuel sourcing) - think positive, in a hundred years will the world be exploding like the Hindenburg due to too much Hydrogen production - or will there a lack of Oxygen to prevent combustion - or will CO2 (ghg) smother/extinguish everything.

Also - some more along these lines:

Please forgive my 'tongue-in-cheek' on this one

I agree with you and truly believe AGW is very bad for us - but not the end of us.
Dammed if I going to roll-over and let it fry me.  Please pass the "Lady Fingers" cooked in Palm Oil.

Walking the walk / Re: Gardening
« on: March 20, 2014, 10:26:32 AM »
The point is: pretty much all that corn could go away tomorrow, and most of the world would be no worse off than it is now (in terms of direct calorie consumption).

In other words, much of industrial ag is involved in something other than feeding the world.

I thought the conversation had drifted to "Organic" and will add without Nitrogen I have absolutely no faith in the USA "dent corn" crop.  I've spread a lot of "chicken manure" for it's Nitrogen content simply based on cost/availability and there's not enough for Illinois not to mention Iowa.

BTW, I no longer grow corn in my garden - this one's too small. I Highly recommend to folks in my neck of the woods for their "Silver Queen" to try Osage Farms  buy the big green mesh bag-full.

What do you do for your freezing and canning of corn?

Walking the walk / Re: Gardening
« on: March 19, 2014, 10:35:15 PM »

You're not the only one that doesn't know.

Also, I've seen figures elsewhere supporting 2K calories/person from USA corn for whole world.
But it's not "organic corn" and there is no way in hell I'll ever believe we could produce that much corn other than by industrial synthetic fertilizer agriculture methods.  Hopefully there will be folks that come along and prove me wrong.

As an old saying goes "everyone has their favorite (pet) peeve"
there are also many everyones who have a favorite theory.
Most time I refuse to ask'em what they're smoking and drinking.


I 'm a strong believer, and practice what I preach, in the home or backyard garden.
I know it can help as it did in the past with "Victory Gardens."

A significant event is necessary to wake-up a super majority (catastrophic ?).

Policy and solutions / Re: Improving EROEI numbers
« on: March 19, 2014, 03:25:50 PM »
I posed the question earlier whether producing food calories with solar cells and the power it yields should increase the EROEI numbers for solar. The question depends obviously on whether you actually do yield a net calorie gain.
My question was specific to gardening with a battery powered tiller powered with solar cells, but it could be expanded to pumping water, producing fertilizer or hauling the produce to market. You could expand it further to cooking or heating water with passive systems and probably much more I haven't considered, but this needs to be taken on in incremental fashion or things will quickly become unmanageable.


If this is the thread/topic content you asked me to review (from another thread/topic)
I believe I'm the wrong person to provide any worthwhile feedback to the above.

Having spent a some years in a lifestyle of - "if you were not in school, church, or the hospital you spent virtually every waking hour (except in the dead of winter) in manual labor toward the pursuit of food production" - for family/relatives, livestock, and some crops/livestock for cash generation, doesn't relate to your solar activity/experimenting, only to your blisters and sunburns.

Walking the walk / Re: Gardening
« on: March 19, 2014, 02:32:14 PM »
"Do you think the world could feed Five Billion using organic only?"
5 billion. I don't know.

Exactly what population number do you believe "organic" could feed (totally sustain)?

I realize we covered a lot on levels in the thread:
Population: Public Enemy No. 1,473.0.html

Walking the walk / Re: Gardening
« on: March 19, 2014, 11:55:34 AM »

We will be talking in a circle for a long time unless we define certain parameters.

From my point of reference, it's sustaining a world population of near 10,000,000,000 (ten billion).
I truly believe that is the masses.

During the 'heyday' of the ancient Chinese - Egyptian I'm led to believe total world population was somewhat less than one billion.

"Do you think the world could feed Five Billion using organic only?"
It's only half of what I'm talking about.

I am a true believer that Organic Grown Food is the BEST
I don't adhere to strictly eating organic only.

Walking the walk / Re: Gardening
« on: March 18, 2014, 10:28:11 PM »
Jack wrote: "I'm one of those who believe organic - sustainable farming will never, never, ever feed the masses."

As you know, essentially 'organic' farming always, always, always  :) fed the masses up to a few decades ago. In China, it did so in the same area for over four millennia--maybe not quite long enough to be considered ultimately sustainable, but not to bad.

Keep in mind also that a huge portion of modern mono-crop ag goes to feeding animals and cars. There are in fact still 'masses' that are mostly supported by mostly organic farming and gardening.

I do like your idea about growing on whatever you have. Even windows and porches can be sites for a few veggie plants. I believe it was in one of McKibben's books where he said that 40% of the vegetables consumed in Hong Kong are grown within the city limits. So there is a lot that can be done even in "one of the most densely populated areas in the world."

But we do have to bring lots more people into ag, on the one hand, and reduce both mouths to feed and wasteful use of food as well.


Agree with you to the extent that perhaps "mined inorganic" fertilizer fed the masses for centuries until synthetic fertilizers caused the so called "Industrial Agriculture Revolution."

But, how many Billions were in the masses prior to say 1750?
approx ~ Ten Percent (~ 10%) of present

Do you think the world could feed Five Billion using organic only?

If industrial society breaks down or collapses - how will we transport what small amounts of mined inorganic's are available to the prime agriculture areas?

There may be a reason(s) why some people say less than 100 Million is the maximum post collapse.
Not even close to the number for the masses of today.

Walking the walk / Re: Gardening
« on: March 18, 2014, 01:52:57 PM »
Cut worms used to get our transplants until we started digging around looking for them before transplanting and using collars to keep them out of the cleared area.

Now our problem is squirrels and bunnies. Though they tend to leave the tomatoes alone and get everything else.

yea ghoti,  you sound like me when first starting a garden on newly acquired property.
Until the "marigolds" had a couple of years to work their magic the cutworms were tough.

I now trap squirrels and go after the others with a pump-air rifle.  You ought to see people turn up their nose when I kid'em about "Dumplings and Squirrel."

I'm one of those who believe organic - sustainable farming will never, never, ever feed the masses.  I truly admire those who do everything in the organic way with no pesticides nor insecticides nor manufactured chemical fertilizers nor heavy machinery.  But, I'm also very particular about not corrupting the data. When I see limited production per worker, I just say it's OK to dream.

Where one farm workers output totally feeds several hundred people for a full year, that takes a lot more than we have time and space to define here.

But, this thread is about Gardening NOT Farming.

If anyone has so much as one square foot of ground - which would not start a war in their neighborhood for unsightly property - backyards are usually/partially  out of sight - then they should grow some type of food plant.  I know one excuse not to, having an extended absence during the growing time.  I thoroughly know the time and expense - acquiring "horticulture skill" (green thumb)  at first is not logical in most folks thoughts of production for being worthwhile.  I realize a lot of people live in apartments - condos.  There so many things that can be grown in a small space, even in just pots and hanging baskets.

With all that said and done, let me put in a plug for a rival of my favorite college/university.
To my belief, virtually all USA 'States' have an Agriculture Component in their colleges.

Home & Garden Information Center
of Clemson University
is what I use the most.  Also, Texas A&M has good online information.  Most or all states do.

At the above Clemson web-site there is a link, on the left "Search HGIC"
result is
you name it and if it's grown or occurred in my area information seems to be there.

BTW, I love "Heirloom Tomatoes" especially "Cherokee Purple" but put out some "Early Girl" for quicker results.  Some of my heirlooms may be kind of ugly - but taste you can't get from a supermarket.

The rest / Re: Introspection on strength of action/communication
« on: March 17, 2014, 09:24:58 PM »
I thought I might flesh out the answers a little bit with roughly where I think the general areas lie:

A lot you're trying to 'flesh out' - but the best part IMHO is getting even a few more people, such as myself, to examine or weigh-in on just how serious they are, or should be.

Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 5