Arctic Sea Ice : Forum

AGW in general => Policy and solutions => Topic started by: Sigmetnow on May 22, 2016, 01:10:23 PM

Title: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on May 22, 2016, 01:10:23 PM
Time for Aviation to have its own thread.  Airplanes, helicopters, blimps, balloons, drones.  Flying cars?  Space tourism? 
Aviation's contribution to greenhouse gasses.  And, giving up flying for the sake of your carbon footprint:

http://qz.com/129477/why-im-never-flying-again/ (http://qz.com/129477/why-im-never-flying-again/)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/capital-weather-gang/wp/2013/10/01/meteorologist-eric-holthaus-vow-to-never-to-fly-again-draws-praise-criticism/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/capital-weather-gang/wp/2013/10/01/meteorologist-eric-holthaus-vow-to-never-to-fly-again-draws-praise-criticism/)

http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/future_tense/2014/10/plane_carbon_footprint_i_went_a_year_without_flying_to_fight_climate_change.html (http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/future_tense/2014/10/plane_carbon_footprint_i_went_a_year_without_flying_to_fight_climate_change.html)


Here's the solar-and-battery-powered Solar Impulse 2 landing in Dayton, Ohio (home of the Wright brothers!) under an almost-full moon.  Solar Impulse is flying around the world using no fuel, to encourage the growth of green energy.

https://twitter.com/solarimpulse/status/734178311161708545 (https://twitter.com/solarimpulse/status/734178311161708545)

https://twitter.com/andreborschberg/status/734204267653943296 (https://twitter.com/andreborschberg/status/734204267653943296)

https://twitter.com/andreborschberg/status/733954974124630016 (https://twitter.com/andreborschberg/status/733954974124630016)

https://twitter.com/solarimpulse/status/734176981252722688 (https://twitter.com/solarimpulse/status/734176981252722688)
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: timallard on May 26, 2016, 03:05:08 AM
Aircraft & shipping weren't regulated in Paris and that blows us by 2C on the face of it.

I found this today of Boeing's test flight of 50-50 biodiesel, that's good news is some ways yet doesn't relieve the industry of putting greenhouse gases directly into the stratosphere, sources on the ground take time to drift up & of course plants & soils absorb it.

That's a big deal, we're at 3-ppm/year, Pleistocene average 1-ppm/1000-years, big jump up end of the last ice-age 1-ppm/180-years, it's acidifying the oceans 10-times faster than the PETM time to wake up.

At 405-ppm we're committed to 25m/82ft of sea-level rise it's only how fast, recall that sea-level doesn't stop until centuries after CO2 turns around, consider that.

Do you really need to fly?

The metrics prove the situation is indelible geologically speaking, consider leaving the Steam Age for electricity a good move as well.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: mati on May 27, 2016, 03:10:23 AM
the airline industry is looking at interesting ways to save fuel:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TaxiBot (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TaxiBot)
http://www.taxibot-international.com/ (http://www.taxibot-international.com/)

http://www.greentaxiing.com/overview.html (http://www.greentaxiing.com/overview.html)
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on June 09, 2016, 08:56:20 PM
Larry Page is secretively behind two electric aircraft startups, financing them with over $100 million
Quote
The aircraft are often referred to as “flying-cars” because the prototypes are often only for 1 to 4 passengers and can only travel relatively short distances. What is particularly interesting, and something we noted in our last report, is that most of those concepts are basically “manned-drone”, meaning that they are autonomous vehicles.

Self-piloting is a lot easier to achieve than self-driving, something Page is also working on through Google, since you don’t have to deal with all the corner cases of two-dimensional roads. It’s a lot easier to autonomously deal with air traffic, takeoff and landing.
http://electrek.co/2016/06/09/larry-page-behind-two-electric-aircraft-startup/ (http://electrek.co/2016/06/09/larry-page-behind-two-electric-aircraft-startup/)
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on June 16, 2016, 07:23:24 PM
NASA Researchers advance propulsion toward low-carbon aircraft
Quote
One of NASA’s goals is to help the aircraft industry shift from relying solely on gas turbines to using hybrid electric and turboelectric propulsion in order to reduce energy consumption, emissions and noise.

“Aircraft are highly complex machines,” says Jim Heidmann, manager for NASA’s Advanced Air Transport Technology project. “Moving toward alternative systems requires creating new aircraft designs as well as propulsion systems that integrate battery technologies and electromagnetic machines like motors and generators with more efficient engines.”

Glenn researchers are looking at power systems that generate electricity in place of, or in addition to, thrust at the turbine engine and then convert that electricity to be converted into thrust using fans at other places on the aircraft.
http://climate.nasa.gov/news/2383/ (http://climate.nasa.gov/news/2383/)
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: mati on June 16, 2016, 10:15:31 PM
I really dont think that NASA idea will fly.
Getting the airlines to use bio generated fuels or a mixture will be much more probable and cost effective. 
Also there are much bigger fish to fry than the airline industry.....
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on June 17, 2016, 09:14:19 PM
I really dont think that NASA idea will fly.
Getting the airlines to use bio generated fuels or a mixture will be much more probable and cost effective. 
Also there are much bigger fish to fry than the airline industry.....

I think NASA is looking further ahead, developing new technologies to replace traditional turbine jet engines -- in the way that hybrids, then full-electric cars, are moving beyond gasoline and ethanol-blended or diesel ICE cars.  Aviation biofuels may help in the short run, but long-term, we need something completely different.  :)
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on June 17, 2016, 09:42:12 PM
Bunch of videos on Transforming Aviation from the AIAA Aviation 2016 conference.
AIAA on Livestream. (http://livestream.com/AIAAvideo/)
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on June 18, 2016, 02:15:36 AM
NASA will spend the next 4 years innovating electric passenger plane transport with the 175mph ‘X-57’
Quote
NASA today unveiled plans to spend the next decade working on electric planes under the ‘X-57’ moniker. The X-Plane program has traditionally been used by NASA to further aviation so this is a big deal more than just a pet project or some 3D renders.
http://electrek.co/2016/06/17/nasa-will-spend-the-next-4-years-innovating-175mph-electric-passenger-plane-under-x-57-project/ (http://electrek.co/2016/06/17/nasa-will-spend-the-next-4-years-innovating-175mph-electric-passenger-plane-under-x-57-project/)
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: timallard on June 20, 2016, 02:26:10 AM
I really dont think that NASA idea will fly.
Getting the airlines to use bio generated fuels or a mixture will be much more probable and cost effective. 
Also there are much bigger fish to fry than the airline industry.....

Actually aircraft are horrible direct polluters of the stratosphere injecting CO2 there is instant forcing, if you burn something on the ground it has to migrate up that takes a while.

Also, shipping and aircraft weren't regulated by Paris being needed by the cross-borders-for-slave-labor system of profit-making, so we blow by 2C/3.6F like a glance out the window on the freeway.

Aircraft should be limited to low-elevation flying only, biodiesel from algae made from wastewater effluent humanity has megatons of it not cooking oil thank you, passenger onlym emergency freight & medical flights.

Or is getting that gizmo in overnight delivery too compelling and just forget the gesture why bother it's another false-flag feel-good does-nothing stall is all?
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: plinius on June 20, 2016, 02:32:47 AM

Actually aircraft are horrible direct polluters of the stratosphere injecting CO2 there is instant forcing, if you burn something on the ground it has to migrate up that takes a while.


Pathetic nonsense, sorry to be that rough, but just have a glimpse at atmospheric physics basics, before you rant around here and think you can teach others about the world.

Quote
Also, shipping and aircraft weren't regulated by Paris being needed by the cross-borders-for-slave-labor system of profit-making, so we blow by 2C/3.6F like a glance out the window on the freeway.
Aircraft should be limited to low-elevation flying only, biodiesel from algae made from wastewater effluent humanity has megatons of it not cooking oil thank you, passenger onlym emergency freight & medical flights.
Or is getting that gizmo in overnight delivery too compelling and just forget the gesture why bother it's another false-flag feel-good does-nothing stall is all?

Sorry, what?
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: mati on June 20, 2016, 03:57:10 AM
I really dont think that NASA idea will fly.
Getting the airlines to use bio generated fuels or a mixture will be much more probable and cost effective. 
Also there are much bigger fish to fry than the airline industry.....

I think NASA is looking further ahead, developing new technologies to replace traditional turbine jet engines -- in the way that hybrids, then full-electric cars, are moving beyond gasoline and ethanol-blended or diesel ICE cars.  Aviation biofuels may help in the short run, but long-term, we need something completely different.  :)

all of this is great, being on the ground, but in the air, the power need to run airplanes close to the speed of sound is not an insignifiant problems.. true for the small airplane market it may work, but insignificant in what effect they will have on global co2
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: plinius on June 20, 2016, 03:52:53 PM
I agree.  Though the question is of course - do we really need to travel at the speed of sound? If I had the choice between a very comfortable 20 hours ride across the Atlantic with a seat in which you can go horizontal, decent wireless and proper food, I would choose that easily above a 10 hour ride in the current discomfort.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on June 20, 2016, 06:26:46 PM
And then there's Solar Impulse 2, the solar-powered airplane -- currently crossing the Atlantic Ocean headed for Seville Spain:
http://www.solarimpulse.com (http://www.solarimpulse.com)

Quote
✨ #Si2 took off this morning from JFK @NY_NJairports #NYC at 2:30AM EDT, relive it here: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=p0DoOJwvlBk (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=p0DoOJwvlBk)
https://twitter.com/solarimpulse/status/744868911838027776 (https://twitter.com/solarimpulse/status/744868911838027776)

Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: timallard on June 21, 2016, 09:36:23 PM

Actually aircraft are horrible direct polluters of the stratosphere injecting CO2 there is instant forcing, if you burn something on the ground it has to migrate up that takes a while.


Pathetic nonsense, sorry to be that rough, but just have a glimpse at atmospheric physics basics, before you rant around here and think you can teach others about the world.

Quote
Also, shipping and aircraft weren't regulated by Paris being needed by the cross-borders-for-slave-labor system of profit-making, so we blow by 2C/3.6F like a glance out the window on the freeway.
Aircraft should be limited to low-elevation flying only, biodiesel from algae made from wastewater effluent humanity has megatons of it not cooking oil thank you, passenger onlym emergency freight & medical flights.
Or is getting that gizmo in overnight delivery too compelling and just forget the gesture why bother it's another false-flag feel-good does-nothing stall is all?

Sorry, what?
And your point was that you didn't understand the reason to not allow aircraft into the stratosphere for a lot of reasons one of them the exhaust is going to spread from there as the source?

I don't get your response at all, if you have a genuine critique open to that, my issue is with the "get it tomorrow" international air-freight business is a huge polluter for-profit $$$ that has no cultural excuse for the collective carbon excursion we're causing geologically using them for that purpose.

Tell us about the physics of CO2 removal from the upper atmosphere and how fast you can accomplish removing the aircraft contribution using fossil fuels, thanks.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on June 23, 2016, 02:11:33 AM
American Airlines flight was cancelled because "the plane was too hot for people to get on."

Quote
@crankyflier:  Well this is a new one - @AmericanAir 5288 cxld today b/c, as the gate agents said, the plane was too hot for people to get on
https://twitter.com/crankyflier/status/745713437271982081

Quote
AA:  @crankyflier Summer is here! The plane was way too hot to board our customers.
https://twitter.com/americanair/status/745715784765169664





Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on June 23, 2016, 05:29:30 PM
Solar Impulse 2 completes world’s first solar-powered Atlantic flight
http://arstechnica.com/science/2016/06/solar-impulse-2-first-solar-power-atlantic-flight/ (http://arstechnica.com/science/2016/06/solar-impulse-2-first-solar-power-atlantic-flight/)
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: mati on June 24, 2016, 03:45:25 AM
Paul Allen building the largest airplane ever made in the world.
The idea is to use the airplane to hoist a rocket up to the stratosphere and then
launching the rocket to put satellites into low earth orbit.

http://www.geekwire.com/2016/paul-allen-stratolaunch-biggest-airplane/ (http://www.geekwire.com/2016/paul-allen-stratolaunch-biggest-airplane/)

this is similar to the pegasus rocket build by orbital sciences back in the late 1990s (with some of my software in it and the OrbComm satellites)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pegasus_(rocket) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pegasus_(rocket))
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Stephen on June 24, 2016, 04:59:45 AM
Paul Allen building the largest airplane ever made in the world.
The idea is to use the airplane to hoist a rocket up to the stratosphere and then
launching the rocket to put satellites into low earth orbit.

http://www.geekwire.com/2016/paul-allen-stratolaunch-biggest-airplane/ (http://www.geekwire.com/2016/paul-allen-stratolaunch-biggest-airplane/)

this is similar to the pegasus rocket build by orbital sciences back in the late 1990s (with some of my software in it and the OrbComm satellites)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pegasus_(rocket) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pegasus_(rocket))

Interesting, but I really think that it is time to put more effort into getting old satellites down, rather than easier and cheaper ways to get new satellites up.  Near Earth space is getting very crowded.  it would be great if every new launch was accompanied by a plan to get the satellite back down at the end of it's service life.  Maybe put a $100 mill deposit on every new launch to be refunded when the junk is brought back to Earth.  But who and how such a fee could be collected I do not know.

A bit like putting CO2 into the atmosphere, there is a cost that is not being paid by the companies that make the profit. 
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on July 14, 2016, 12:58:13 AM
Siemens 260 kW electric aircraft motor makes first public flight
Quote
Siemens researchers have developed a new type of electric motor that delivers a continuous output of about 260 kW and weighs 50 kg. The new drive system, designed for a joint project of Siemens and Airbus to develop electrified aircraft, recently made its maiden flight in an Extra 330LE aerobatic airplane.

“This day will change aviation,” said Frank Anton, Siemens’ head of eAircraft. “This is the first time that an electric aircraft in the quarter-megawatt performance class has flown.” The Extra 330LE, which weighs about 1,000 kg, is particularly well suited to serve as a flying test bed for the new propulsion system.

Siemens and Airbus plan to use the new motor as a basis for developing regional airliners powered by hybrid propulsion systems. “By 2030, we expect to see initial aircraft with up to 100 passengers and a range of around 1,000 kilometers,” said Anton.
https://chargedevs.com/newswire/siemens-260-kw-electric-aircraft-motor-makes-first-public-flight/
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on July 15, 2016, 09:27:59 PM
Solar Impulse 2:  "Further without fuel, over the Pyramids"
https://twitter.com/solarimpulse/status/753086149686689792
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: solartim27 on July 16, 2016, 01:10:43 AM
That air looks pretty thick.  I wonder what's in it, sand , dust, smog, etc.....?
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on July 16, 2016, 02:29:17 AM
That air looks pretty thick.  I wonder what's in it, sand , dust, smog, etc.....?

Not sure, but:
- the overflight occurred around sunrise, and
- air pollution is a known problem in the area
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on July 16, 2016, 07:03:22 PM
Human-powered aircraft!  ;) ;D

Quote
Solar Impulse 2:  Tonight there will be 4km of taxiing #Si2 and everyone is invited to help in the team to push&pull the aircraft
https://twitter.com/solarimpulse/status/754343312383938560
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: JimD on July 17, 2016, 12:20:00 AM
.........
Actually aircraft are horrible direct polluters of the stratosphere injecting CO2 there is instant forcing, if you burn something on the ground it has to migrate up that takes a while.
......

Back in the first topic here on the Form about Planes in 2013 there was a link which you might find interesting.

Quote
...They have discovered that aviation contrails play a huge role in the impact on the climate and an even greater impact than that created by the CO2 emissions produced. While the CO2 emissions from airplanes account for around three percent of the annual CO2 emissions from all fossil fuels and change the radiation by 28 milliwatts per square meter, the aviation contrails are responsible for a change of around 31 milliwatts per square meter.
The only difference is that CO2 has a longer life than that of the contrails, and can still continue to cause warming even hundreds of years down the road.
The researchers believe that while continuing to reduce CO2 emissions in aviation, more work needs to be done to reduce contrails as well. This reduction of contrails could present an immediate effect on global warming. Solutions for this could include such things as creating flight plans at lower altitudes and the development of new airplane engines which would either reduce the water vapor released or immediately condense the water into ice that would drop to the ground below....

http://phys.org/news/2011-03-airplane-contrails-worse-co2-emissions.html (http://phys.org/news/2011-03-airplane-contrails-worse-co2-emissions.html)
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on July 19, 2016, 09:26:22 PM

A fuel fee can reduce airline emissions — but it likely will mean higher airfares, study says
Quote
After more than six years of negotiations, representatives of the world’s airline industry reached a tentative agreement on airline emission standards to cut carbon dioxide, the fastest growing source of greenhouse gases.

But environmentalists weren’t pleased, noting that the proposed emissions standards would apply only to new planes delivered after 2023.
Quote
Brueckner found one other way to reduce emissions and keep travelers happy: Eliminate delays that result in planes idling with their engines running. If airlines cut the percentage of flight that are delayed from 20% to 17%, that would generate nearly $50 million in annual environmental benefits, the study found.
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-travel-briefcase-emissions-20160716-snap-story.html (http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-travel-briefcase-emissions-20160716-snap-story.html)


Hybrid planes (electrically-driven wheels) could be the next big thing:
Quote
The patented and proprietary WheelTug® hybrid-electric drive system uses motors in aircraft wheels to provide full mobility while on the ground without the use of the aircraft's jet engines or external tugs for both pushback and taxi operations. WheelTug enables aircraft to be electrically driven from the terminal gate to the takeoff runway, and upon landing from runway exit to the gate. Yearly per-aircraft savings exceed $500,000.   The company plans to begin deliveries of certificated production models by early 2013, for narrow body aircraft including the Boeing 737NG and Airbus A320 families.
http://www.idtechex.com/events/presentations/hybrid-aircraft-electric-drive-for-ground-taxi-boeing-trial-002975.asp (http://www.idtechex.com/events/presentations/hybrid-aircraft-electric-drive-for-ground-taxi-boeing-trial-002975.asp)
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on July 23, 2016, 12:13:11 AM
 For the uninitiated: a Slurpee is your basic large sugary drink with lots of crushed ice.

7-Eleven delivers by drone in Reno including, yes, Slurpees
Quote
During the 7-Eleven delivery, which took place in Reno, Nevada on July 10th, Flirtey successfully transported: Slurpees, a chicken sandwich, donuts, hot coffee and candy to the home of the family who placed the order.
https://techcrunch.com/2016/07/22/7-eleven-delivers-by-drone-in-reno-including-yes-slurpees/
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on July 25, 2016, 07:22:09 PM
ZERO-FUEL SOLAR IMPULSE TO COMPLETE ROUND-THE-WORLD FLIGHT
Quote
The 17th and final leg of the journey was delayed as a result of a heatwave over the Middle East, which threatened to damage onboard electronics.

“The heatwave over the Middle East has challenged the Solar Impulse team, almost more than the crossing of the Pacific or Atlantic to everyone’s astonishment,” a spokesperson for the Solar Impulse team tells Newsweek.
http://www.newsweek.com/zero-fuel-solar-impulse-complete-round-world-trip-483692 (http://www.newsweek.com/zero-fuel-solar-impulse-complete-round-world-trip-483692)
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on July 26, 2016, 03:22:06 AM
Solar Impulse completes historic round-the-world trip
http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-36890563 (http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-36890563)
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on July 26, 2016, 01:31:43 PM
Next Item on Obama’s Climate Agenda: Airplane Pollution
Quote
WASHINGTON — The Obama administration on Monday announced its plan to start regulating planet-warming pollution from airplanes, setting off a battle between environmentalists and the airline industry.

The plan to curb airplane emissions comes as President Obama looks to strengthen his climate change legacy with new policies in the waning months of his administration. The airline rules would be among the final pieces of his sweeping and contentious second-term climate agenda, which has included rules to rein in greenhouse pollution from cars, trucks and power plants, and his role in forging last year’s Paris agreement committing nearly 200 countries to take action to reduce emissions that are warming the planet.

The Environmental Protection Agency released the aviation plan, known as an “endangerment finding,” which concludes that the planet-warming pollution produced by airplanes endangers human health by contributing to climate change. The endangerment finding does not include the details of a regulation, but it sets off a legal requirement under the Clean Air Act for the E.P.A. to establish a rule.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/26/us/politics/epa-airplane-pollution.html (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/26/us/politics/epa-airplane-pollution.html)
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on July 26, 2016, 08:27:38 PM
Airplane Finishes Globe-Circling Flight Without a Drop of Fuel
Quote
Bertrand Piccard, 58, touched down in his Solar Impulse at 4:05 a.m. in Abu Dhabi, completing the final leg of a 16-month multistage journey, the project team said in a statement Tuesday. The plane has flown 43,041 kilometers (26,750 miles) since starting the trip in March 2015.

“I’m sure that within 10 years, we’ll see electric airplanes transporting 50 passengers on short- to medium-haul flights,” Piccard said in the statement. “But it’s not enough. The same clean technologies used on Solar Impulse could be implemented on the ground in our daily life.”
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-07-26/airplane-finishes-globe-circling-flight-without-a-drop-of-fuel (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-07-26/airplane-finishes-globe-circling-flight-without-a-drop-of-fuel)


Sun-Powered Airplane Completes Historic Trip Around The World
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/07/26/487458905/sun-powered-airplane-completes-historic-trip-around-the-world (http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/07/26/487458905/sun-powered-airplane-completes-historic-trip-around-the-world)
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Anne on August 13, 2016, 09:56:32 PM
An airship to rival the Airlander?
Quote
<snip>The Russian Security Council is reported to have presented a draft to the government for consideration. It envisages 'transport and logistic' corridors linking Siberia, the Far East and the Arctic.
The advanced airships would enable passenger and cargo traffic between, or example, the Northern Sea Route along the north of the Russian land mass, and the Trans-Siberian and Baikal-Amur Mainline railways.
The scheme offers integrated shipping and aviation 'hubs' to create conditions 'for the country to move to a new social and economic level through the deep exploration of Siberia, the Far East and the Arctic', according to a letter on the plan presented to Deputy Prime Minister Arkady Dvorkovich.
It is claimed that a single new-style airship could do the work of five Mi-8 helicopters in the Russian far north.
Russia is one of a number of countries where new generation airships are being built. The Augur-RosAeroSystems Holding is set to build the futuristic airship Atlant by the end of 2018.
These vast flying machines have been called 'half plane, half airship', with the versatility to remain in the air for days at a time, and land without requiring a traditional airport.
Larger versions are expected to outsize a Boeing 747.
Pictures and more at the link.
http://siberiantimes.com/other/others/news/n0707-futuristic-airship-scheme-plan-unveiled-to-transform-siberia-and-the-arctic/ (http://siberiantimes.com/other/others/news/n0707-futuristic-airship-scheme-plan-unveiled-to-transform-siberia-and-the-arctic/)

More about the Airlander here:
http://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,1494.0.html (http://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,1494.0.html)
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on August 15, 2016, 01:05:46 AM
NASA Pulls Together National Data to Sleuth Out Air Traffic Improvement Mysteries
Quote
For the first time ever, air traffic researchers can view and analyze archived flight data collected and merged from all air traffic facilities across the U.S., with fast update rates ranging from one second to 12 seconds for every flight’s position. Previously, researchers only had access to national flight data that was similar to internet flight tracking, with one-minute flight updates and no information about flights on the ground at airports. Or, they had access to separate flight data sets from 77 different Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) air traffic facilities, which made research very challenging. NASA’s newly improved tool, the Sherlock Air Traffic Management (ATM) Data Warehouse, merges all of the air traffic facility data to produce analysis-ready, end-to-end flight information at these improved resolutions for the entire U.S. airspace.

NASA is committed to transforming aviation by dramatically reducing its environmental impact and improving efficiency while maintaining safety in more crowded skies. Sherlock will help air traffic management researchers quickly perform large-scale analyses of the U.S. air traffic system, to look for areas where ideas for improvement will have the most benefit in terms of environment, safety and efficiency.

For example, it allows researchers to use actual flight data to answer questions such as, “How much fuel could be saved if all flights into the San Francisco Airport used lower power for their final descent?” Or, “Would more accurate departure schedules reduce delays into busy Northeast airports, and at what rate?” Since new technologies are so costly to deploy in the complex U.S. airspace, finding the regions where they will help the most is very important, as is predicting the benefits to the flying public.
http://www.nasa.gov/feature/ames/nasa-pulls-together-national-data-to-sleuth-out-air-traffic-improvement-mysteries (http://www.nasa.gov/feature/ames/nasa-pulls-together-national-data-to-sleuth-out-air-traffic-improvement-mysteries)
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on August 15, 2016, 04:27:02 PM
When you need a large, flat area for an airport, and it is situated between several rivers and the ocean....

New Jakarta Airport Terminal Floods Just Days After Opening
http://www.nbcnews.com/business/travel/new-jakarta-airport-terminal-floods-just-days-after-opening-n630761 (http://www.nbcnews.com/business/travel/new-jakarta-airport-terminal-floods-just-days-after-opening-n630761)
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on September 09, 2016, 09:59:51 PM
From July:
Maiden Flight:  World-record electric motor for aircraft
Quote
Siemens researchers have developed a new type of electric motor that, with a weight of just 50 kilograms, delivers a continuous output of about 260 kilowatts – five times more than comparable drive systems. This record-setting propulsion system successfully completed its first public flight today at Schwarze Heide Airport near Dinslaken, Germany, where it – almost silently – powered an Extra 330LE aerobatic airplane.

The new drive system had already made its maiden flight on June 24th 2016. This advance means that hybrid-electric aircraft with four or more seats will now be possible. In addition, the company will be contributing this technology to the cooperative project that Siemens and Airbus agreed to in April 2016 for driving the development of electrically powered flight.

Electric drives are scalable, and Siemens and Airbus will be using the record-setting motor as a basis for developing regional airliners powered by hybrid-electric propulsion systems. Siemens is determined to establish hybrid-electric propulsion systems for aircraft as a future area of business.
http://www.siemens.com/press/en/feature/2015/corporate/2015-03-electromotor.php (http://www.siemens.com/press/en/feature/2015/corporate/2015-03-electromotor.php)


"By 2030, we expect to see initial aircraft with up to 100 passengers and a range of around 1,000 kilometers."
https://issuu.com/chargedevs/docs/iss_26_issuu.com?e=3746341%2F37908246 (https://issuu.com/chargedevs/docs/iss_26_issuu.com?e=3746341%2F37908246)


Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on September 18, 2016, 07:04:01 PM
Quote
@cityatlas:  Readers questioning advice on flying http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/24/travel/ecotourism-green-travel-tips.html (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/24/travel/ecotourism-green-travel-tips.html)
 @flyingless @EricHolthaus @revkin @KevinClimate
https://twitter.com/cityatlas/status/777547138251296768 (https://twitter.com/cityatlas/status/777547138251296768)
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on September 18, 2016, 09:13:16 PM
Solar-Powered Helicopter Takes Flight
A breakthrough design from student inventors
Quote
A team of undergraduates at the University of Maryland has developed a four-rotor helicopter equipped with an array of solar panels. The craft took to the air for nine seconds, lifting more than a foot off of the ground. (By point of comparison, the Wright Brothers’ first flight lasted just 12 seconds.)
https://nexusmedianews.com/solar-powered-helicopter-takes-flight-dae94d0a6a07
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Hefaistos on September 26, 2016, 04:24:35 PM
Aviation industry doesn't want to cut its CO2 emmissions but is preparing for a voluntary agreement to compensate for them:

"To be clear, the 15-year agreement would not force airlines to cut their pollution. Instead, companies would compensate for any emissions growth after the accord begins in 2020 by buying credits that back renewable energy development, forest preservation or other environmental endeavors. ... Officials plan to finalize the agreement during the talks that begin this week, hosted by the UN’s International Civil Aviation Organization. ... A key issue will ultimately be determining what types of offsets are permitted. Verifying the ecological integrity of such credits can be notoriously difficult."

“It’s peanuts,” said Bill Hemmings, of the Brussels-based environmental group Transport & Environment. “It gets them off the hook. Without enforced safeguards, it’s a massive green-washing exercise.”

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-09-25/airlines-embrace-pollution-plan-that-could-cost-them-24-billion (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-09-25/airlines-embrace-pollution-plan-that-could-cost-them-24-billion)

Also, it's worth reminding that aviation emmissions have a bigger negative impact on climate than just the CO2 emissions due to the contrails.
"aviation contrails play a huge role in the impact on the climate and an even greater impact than that created by the CO2 emissions produced. While the CO2 emissions from airplanes account for around three percent of the annual CO2 emissions from all fossil fuels and change the radiation by 28 milliwatts per square meter, the aviation contrails are responsible for a change of around 31 milliwatts per square meter."

http://phys.org/news/2011-03-airplane-contrails-worse-co2-emissions.html (http://phys.org/news/2011-03-airplane-contrails-worse-co2-emissions.html)
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on October 05, 2016, 11:40:42 PM
The first battery-powered manned helicopter: 20 minutes flight time with 1100 lbs battery pack
https://electrek.co/2016/10/05/first-battery-powered-manned-helicopter/
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on October 08, 2016, 06:52:12 PM
ICAO agreement adopted.  By some countries.
Quote
Nations have reached a deal to limit the climate impact of the aviation sector. The International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) agreed to take the first step to address international aviation emissions by adopting a global market-based measure for the sector.

Aviation emissions are projected to consume approximately a quarter of the world’s remaining carbon budget by 2050, highlighting the urgency of reaching an agreement to tackle airline pollution. The agreement will cover an estimated three quarters of international aviation’s expected emissions growth between 2021 and 2035, covering 2.5 billion tons of CO2 emissions or the equivalent of over 700 coal-fired power plants.

More than 60 countries have committed to joining the first phase of the agreement, which is estimated to cost airlines USD $23 billion from 2021 to 2035, representing only three cents on the dollar for the damage of the industry’s CO2 emissions on the environment.

Further ambition is necessary in order to meet ICAO’s own target of carbon neutral growth from 2020. Though the deal aims to limit the aviation sector’s climate impacts, nations deleted key provisions that would have aligned the deal with the Paris Agreement's aim of limiting global warming to well below 2 degrees with best efforts to not exceed 1.5 degrees Celsius.
http://climatenexus.org/learn/international-actions/aviation-climate-deal-takes (http://climatenexus.org/learn/international-actions/aviation-climate-deal-takes)
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on October 24, 2016, 04:27:42 PM
Airbus unveils concept for an autonomous electric VTOL aircraft
“The aircraft we’re building doesn’t need a runway, is self-piloted, and can automatically detect and avoid obstacles and other aircraft. Designed to carry a single passenger or cargo, we’re aiming to make it the first certified passenger aircraft without a pilot.”
Quote
They have a pretty aggressive timeline to production. They aim to fly a full-size working prototype before the end of 2017, and to have a scalable to production demonstrator by 2020.

Lyasoff sees several technological trends pointing toward manned electric and autonomous aircraft being feasible in the near future:

• Battery safety and energy density are now adequate for airborne applications.
• Low-cost, reliable avionics are becoming broadly available, leveraging decades of unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) development.
• Mature obstacle detection and avoidance technology can enable safe aircraft takeoff and landing, and provides reliable collision avoidance in flight.
• Recent advances in automated composite manufacturing and assembly show that small, lightweight vehicles can be produced at high volumes and significantly lower costs than traditional aerospace methods have previously allowed.
...
The company sees the concept being used in what they call ” truly vertical cities” with predetermined flight paths for autonomous aircraft carrying passengers – virtually creating an autonomous flying electric taxi service.
https://electrek.co/2016/10/24/airbus-unveils-concept-autonomous-electric-vtol-aircraft/
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on October 25, 2016, 05:26:50 PM
Add a third runway to London's Heathrow airport?  It might reduce fuel wasted in taxiing delays and flying holding patterns, but that would be offset by the additional traffic.

Heathrow approval puts business above political and environment issues
Post-Brexit vote economic considerations appear to have guided Theresa May’s decision, which will face broad opposition
Quote
The independent commission charged with deciding whether a new runway should be built in the UK started a report last year by declaring that air links were vital for the economy, trade and investment. It went on to select Heathrow as the best site. After 15 months of deliberation, on Tuesday, the government backed this verdict.
...
The truth is that sharp cuts in global emissions are urgently required and one-quarter of Britain’s carbon budget will need to be splurged on aviation by 2050, according to the Committee on Climate Change.

Even keeping aviation emissions to this level requires increasingly efficient planes, biofuels and carbon taxes running into the hundreds of pounds per ticket. The committee has asked the government to come up with a strategy to show how these actions can be implemented.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/oct/25/heathrow-approval-business-political-environmental-issues (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/oct/25/heathrow-approval-business-political-environmental-issues)
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on October 25, 2016, 10:07:23 PM
First picture of what is believed to be Larry Page’s electric VTOL aircraft
Quote
The first electric and VTOL aircraft by Zee.Aero, a startup reportedly heavily funded by Google co-founder Larry Page, is believed to have been spotted at the Hollister Airport in California, where the company has a hangar.

The aircraft has been called a ‘flying car’, but the term should really be retired since the vehicle has little to do with a car. It’s a battery-powered aircraft capable of vertical take-off and landing (VTOL).

The picture [below] was recently taken by Steve Eggleston, who works next to the airport, and he claims to have seen the aircraft hover quietly over the tarmac before being able to take the picture. The vehicle was quickly brought back inside Zee.Aero’s building.
https://electrek.co/2016/10/25/first-picture-of-what-is-believed-to-be-larry-pages-electric-vtol-aircraft/
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: johnm33 on October 26, 2016, 01:11:58 PM
Never mind a new runway at Heathrow,[I have to own that i think if we must then Boris's estuarine island if it included a tidal barage would be a better idea].
 https://thenanfang.com/china-to-boost-airport-infrastructure-by-billions/
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Hefaistos on November 13, 2016, 12:06:04 PM
The International Air Transport Association (IATA) expects 7.2 billion passengers to travel in 2035, a near doubling of the 3.8 billion air travelers in 2016. The prediction is based on a 3.7% annual Compound Average Growth Rate (CAGR) noted in the release of the latest update to the association’s 20-Year Air Passenger Forecast.

“People want to fly. Demand for air travel over the next two decades is set to double. Enabling people and nations to trade, explore, and share the benefits of innovation and economic prosperity makes our world a better place,” said Alexandre de Juniac, IATA’s Director General and CEO. 
"...the biggest driver of demand will be the Asia-Pacific region. It is expected to be the source of more than half the new passengers over the next 20 years. China will displace the US as the world’s largest aviation market (defined by traffic to, from and within the country) around 2024*.
India will displace the UK for third place in 2025*, while Indonesia enters the top ten ..."

Terrible. What on earth (or in the sky) will stop this myopic madness?

http://www.iata.org/pressroom/pr/Pages/2016-10-18-02.aspx (http://www.iata.org/pressroom/pr/Pages/2016-10-18-02.aspx)
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on November 13, 2016, 07:51:01 PM

Terrible. What on earth (or in the sky) will stop this myopic madness?


Hyperloop?   ;)
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Pmt111500 on November 14, 2016, 02:12:06 AM

... said Alexandre de Juniac, IATA’s Director General and CEO. 
"...the biggest driver of demand will be the Asia-Pacific region. It is expected to be the source of more than half the new passengers over the next 20 years. China will displace the US as the world’s largest aviation market (defined by traffic to, from and within the country) around 2024*.
India will displace the UK for third place in 2025*, while Indonesia enters the top ten ..."

Terrible. What on earth (or in the sky) will stop this myopic madness?


Ah, they're still talking about growth? With the new president-elect I'm afraid there's nothing to stop this. Some people still need to travel, at least to exchange secure one-time codes for communications. Possibly it's time to start praying.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on November 28, 2016, 09:02:48 PM
Interview with "Swiss aviator Bertrand Piccard, whose paternal lineage of explorers led him to attempt the seemingly impossible task of flying without fuel."

"The world of aviation did not believe that a solar-powered plane could be made"
http://www.thehindu.com/business/Industry/The-world-of-aviation-did-not-believe-that-a-solar-powered-plane-could-be-made/article16711735.ece (http://www.thehindu.com/business/Industry/The-world-of-aviation-did-not-believe-that-a-solar-powered-plane-could-be-made/article16711735.ece)
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on December 05, 2016, 07:10:51 PM
Electric VTOL aircraft are coming: money is flowing to several startups developing different designs
Quote
Battery energy density is starting to get high enough to allow for electric air travel, and several companies, increasingly backed by significant investors, are now seriously working on bringing electric aircraft to market.
https://electrek.co/2016/12/05/electric-vtol-aircraft-money-flowing-startups/
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on February 16, 2017, 07:39:01 PM
Electric airplane with Siemens drive system sets ascent record
Quote
...Siemens will bring this technology to its electric flight collaboration with Airbus. The two companies hope to prove the technical feasibility of hybrid electric drive systems for regional aircraft by 2020. This will require power ratings of up to 10 megawatts. “We expect to see the first aircraft with up to 100 passengers and a range of approximately 1,000 kilometers by 2030,” said Anton.
https://chargedevs.com/newswire/electric-airplane-with-siemens-drive-system-sets-ascent-record/
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Hefaistos on March 17, 2017, 07:56:49 PM

A new study from NASA has shown that the jet engines using biofuels have fewer particle emissions in their exhaust trails.
"As a result, the observed particle reductions we've measured during ACCESS should directly translate into reduced ice crystal concentrations in contrails, which in turn should help minimize their impact on Earth's environment,"
http://www.cnbc.com/2017/03/17/biofuels-cut-jet-engine-pollution-nasa-study-shows.html (http://www.cnbc.com/2017/03/17/biofuels-cut-jet-engine-pollution-nasa-study-shows.html)

I believe that aviation over the Arctic ocean contributes to the creation of polar stratospheric clouds. These contribute to the warming over the Arctic, according to a research paper previously reported on the forum.
Scientists recently discovered that polar stratospheric clouds, long known to play an important role in Antarctic ozone destruction, are occurring with increasing frequency in the Arctic. The PSCs have been frequently seen in northern parts of Scandinavia during this winter, according to various reports.
http://earthsky.org/earth/wow-polar-stratospheric-clouds (http://earthsky.org/earth/wow-polar-stratospheric-clouds)

Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Hefaistos on March 17, 2017, 08:07:51 PM
More reports on PSCs

http://spaceweather.com/archive.php?view=1&day=14&month=02&year=2017 (http://spaceweather.com/archive.php?view=1&day=14&month=02&year=2017)

What else could cause the growth in PSCs than intercontinental aviation?
Modern planes like the Dreamliner cruise at very high altitudes, like 36 000 feet, well into the stratosphere.
Intercontinental aviation across the Arctic  has increased  quite a bit in recent years, with budget airlines like Virgin or Norwegian. Most flights from Europe to the US pass Greenland and Newfoundland, e.g. And dominating wind patterns will blow the contrail clouds further NE.

Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on March 22, 2017, 04:48:09 PM
Battery energy density is not yet where we need it to be, but given the curve of battery improvement, this is a noteworthy goal.

Quote
A new startup is trying the more ambitious goal of building a battery-powered 150-seat plane to compete with 737-size aircrafts in the market for short-haul trips (under 300 miles).
https://electrek.co/2017/03/22/electric-plane-startup-150-seat-battery-powered-plane/
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: mati on March 22, 2017, 10:44:38 PM
better yet to build an electric catapault and fire a glider to land in france :)
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on April 05, 2017, 01:05:22 AM
Siemens’s New Electric Plane Just Broke the World Speed Record
Quote
In March, the 330LE set a new top-speed record for electric aircraft when it hit over 200 miles per hour over a slightly less than two-mile stretch. In the same demonstration, it also became the first electric aircraft ever to tow a glider to cruising speed and, in December, it also broke the electric climbing record. Demonstrated over Munich, Germany, the little battery-powered plane reached over 3,000 meters altitude in under four and a half minutes.

The new Siemens engine that makes this possible is a true marvel, providing a whopping 260 kW of power output while weighing just 110 lbs, overall. ...
https://www.inverse.com/article/29930-siemens-plane-electric-aircraft-330le-world-record-speed-battery (https://www.inverse.com/article/29930-siemens-plane-electric-aircraft-330le-world-record-speed-battery)
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on April 06, 2017, 09:03:00 PM
A small petrol engine supplemented with battery/electric power.

Zunum Aero emerges from stealth mode with big plans for hybrid electric planes
Quote
The idea is to create aircraft that are well-suited for routes that have fallen into disuse due to trends that have dominated the airline industry over the past few decades – trends that favor larger aircraft serving bigger airports.

Kumar cited figures suggesting that only 2 percent of the nation’s more than 5,000 airports account for 96 percent of today’s air traffic. That means the bigger airports are jammed, while scheduled service from the smaller airports is costly, if it exists at all.

Zunum Aero says the greater efficiencies of hybrid electric propulsion could reduce fares by 40 to 80 percent for routes ranging up to 1,000 miles.
...
Kumar said Zunum Aero has been working with the Center for Power Optimization of Electro-Thermal Systems at the University of Illinois on a technology approach that blends battery storage with engine-generated power. An onboard software system would calculate when the engine needs to be on, and for how long, depending on the route.
...
http://www.geekwire.com/2017/zunum-aero-stealth-hybrid-electric-planes/ (http://www.geekwire.com/2017/zunum-aero-stealth-hybrid-electric-planes/)
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: mati on April 09, 2017, 09:15:14 PM
Darpa electric VTOL demonstrator:

http://newatlas.com/darpa-xplane-vtol-successful-flight-test/48823/ (http://newatlas.com/darpa-xplane-vtol-successful-flight-test/48823/)
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: TerryM on April 10, 2017, 12:35:59 AM
A small petrol engine supplemented with battery/electric power.

Zunum Aero emerges from stealth mode with big plans for hybrid electric planes
Quote
The idea is to create aircraft that are well-suited for routes that have fallen into disuse due to trends that have dominated the airline industry over the past few decades – trends that favor larger aircraft serving bigger airports.

Kumar cited figures suggesting that only 2 percent of the nation’s more than 5,000 airports account for 96 percent of today’s air traffic. That means the bigger airports are jammed, while scheduled service from the smaller airports is costly, if it exists at all.

Zunum Aero says the greater efficiencies of hybrid electric propulsion could reduce fares by 40 to 80 percent for routes ranging up to 1,000 miles.
...
Kumar said Zunum Aero has been working with the Center for Power Optimization of Electro-Thermal Systems at the University of Illinois on a technology approach that blends battery storage with engine-generated power. An onboard software system would calculate when the engine needs to be on, and for how long, depending on the route.
...
http://www.geekwire.com/2017/zunum-aero-stealth-hybrid-electric-planes/ (http://www.geekwire.com/2017/zunum-aero-stealth-hybrid-electric-planes/)


I don't know if we're there yet, but I've long wondered about the possibility of using ICE during take off, then switching to electric during the cruising phase of the journey when power requirements would presumably be much less. I don't see how to attain an 80% drop in air fare because of fuel costs, particularly on short hops where capital costs, maintenance and labor costs could be expected to be relatively high, but some savings may be possible.


The slam dunk hybrid in my mind would be ships of every size. Very low speeds are required in harbors, canals and locks. Ships can accommodate the extra weight of batteries, electric motors and possibly solar panels, more readily than other transportation modes, and the fuels they customarily burn are the dirtiest out there.
I don't know how much fuel a cargo ship would save over the course of a voyage, but if all this accomplished was to improve air quality around harbors, canals, and locks, it might still be worthwhile.


Terry
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: oren on April 10, 2017, 07:26:37 AM
Don't know if this is significant, but airplanes taxi on the ground a lot, and with shorter flights and busier airports there is a higher proportion of taxiing.

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxiing (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxiing) :
Quote
At low power settings, combustion aircraft engines operate at lower efficiency than at cruise power settings. A typical A320 spends an average of 3.5 hours a day taxiing, using 600 litres (160 US gal) of fuel. Hybrid electrically driven nosegear are under development to allow high use aircraft to shut down the engines during taxi operations.[1]
Electric taxiing was invented by Delos Aerospace and patented in the US in 2007. Electric taxiing will significantly reduce aircraft fuel burn which is estimated to be as high as 27% of total fuel burn for a 90-minute flight where waiting in queue adds to the time on the ground.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: mati on April 10, 2017, 03:24:31 PM
there are also taxi bots :O

http://www.taxibot-international.com/ (http://www.taxibot-international.com/)
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on April 21, 2017, 01:25:20 AM
Lilium shows maiden flight of world’s first working prototype of an electric VTOL jet
https://electrek.co/2017/04/20/lilium-electric-vtol-jet/
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Bob Wallace on April 21, 2017, 02:25:03 AM
To answer an earlier question, yes, Hyperloop.

A faster, more convenient, more comfortable, and less expensive way to travel long distances powered by renewable electricity.  If is works we could replace "80%" of air travel with 'loops.  We'd still need planes for island and remote village stuff. 

Reading through the posts it looks like moderate range (500 mile?) battery powered flying is going to be possible.  And then, worst case, biofuels/synfuel for necessary longer range flying.

Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: rboyd on April 21, 2017, 03:52:00 AM
The hype loop seems to be in full bloom, reminds me so much of the .com bubble. I wish I were wrong, but it will take decades for this stuff (hyperloop and electric planes) to turn into actual commercial reality that has a significant impact. Reality is that we will have to stop flying so much to reduce carbon emissions.

The Chinese, Japanese, Europeans etc. have built/are building fast conventional trains that make short-haul flights unnecessary. North Americans should be doing the same.

Realistic comment with respect to Lilium:

"Based on the renderings, the “jet” will fly, but not far, says Charles Eastlake, an aerodynamicist at Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University. Concepts like this often soar on hopes and dreams before slamming into hard realities, he says.

Eastlake knows what he’s talking about—he has a long history with electric and vertical-lift aircraft, including the Navy’s experimental XFV-12 fighter in the 1970s. “In general, the public has a hopelessly optimistic view about how straightforward and wonderful electric vehicles are,” he says—a view that often doesn’t consider the challenges of safety, weight, and cost."

https://www.wired.com/2016/06/lilium-electric-personal-jet-concept/ (https://www.wired.com/2016/06/lilium-electric-personal-jet-concept/)
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Bob Wallace on April 21, 2017, 04:14:55 AM
If we want to discuss the 'loop there's a thread for that, but let me say that IMO we should not be building HSR in the US right now.  We should hold off for a few months to a couple of years and let the 'loop get tested.

If it works we're probably better off to skip rail and go straight to tubes. 
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on April 26, 2017, 12:20:06 AM
Ummm....   :o

Uber unveils plans for electric flying taxis by 2020, ChargePoint will provide charging for first stations
Quote
If you are wondering how come there are so many news and announcement about electric vertical takeoff and landing (eVTOL) aircraft lately, like Lilium’s maiden flight and Kitty Hawk coming out of stealth, it looks like it’s because they timed the releases with Uber’s Elevate Summit in Dallas this week.

Today, Uber announced its own plans to use eVTOL aircraft for a flying taxi service.

Several companies, including the ones previously mentioned, detailed their plans during the event. Uber describes the summit:

“The Summit will offer an information-packed three days during which we hope to build awareness about the Elevate mission, detail Uber’s role in the ecosystem, identify and accelerate opportunities to collaborate within the community, and define a path towards initial urban eVTOL operations.”
...
https://electrek.co/2017/04/25/uber-electric-flying-taxis-2020-chargepoint-charging-station/
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: TerryM on April 26, 2017, 04:18:55 PM
Ummm....   :o

Uber unveils plans for electric flying taxis by 2020, ChargePoint will provide charging for first stations
Quote
If you are wondering how come there are so many news and announcement about electric vertical takeoff and landing (eVTOL) aircraft lately, like Lilium’s maiden flight and Kitty Hawk coming out of stealth, it looks like it’s because they timed the releases with Uber’s Elevate Summit in Dallas this week.

Today, Uber announced its own plans to use eVTOL aircraft for a flying taxi service.

Several companies, including the ones previously mentioned, detailed their plans during the event. Uber describes the summit:

“The Summit will offer an information-packed three days during which we hope to build awareness about the Elevate mission, detail Uber’s role in the ecosystem, identify and accelerate opportunities to collaborate within the community, and define a path towards initial urban eVTOL operations.”
...
https://electrek.co/2017/04/25/uber-electric-flying-taxis-2020-chargepoint-charging-station/ (https://electrek.co/2017/04/25/uber-electric-flying-taxis-2020-chargepoint-charging-station/)


Wouldn't this require an almost complete re-write of existing FAA regulations? If the hardware was available today, I doubt that 3 years is enough time to shepherd whatever legislation is needed through whatever committees are required, assuming that someone already knows how flying taxis should be regulated.


Do passengers require FAA screening?
Are Air Cabs restricted to licensed airports and helicopter pads?
If an A-Cab avoids telephone lines, clotheslines and tree branches, can it land on your driveway?
Who is responsible when an inebriated passenger vomits on my garden party?
What licensing is required for one to use a public roadway?


I think I could continue for a long time, but the point I'm hammering at is that even carrying someone from an already crowded airport to the heliport of his choice, will require changing the laws and codes, and this service won't be of much use to most people.


A taxi is generally considered as a conveyance that picks you up where you are located & drops you close to where you need to be. This won't be possible for an Air Cab by 2020.
This is vaporware.


Terry
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on April 26, 2017, 05:44:47 PM
The FAA (and its global counterparts) already has detailed regulations regarding aircraft separation; distance required from structures, vessels, or people; and designated airspace where increasing levels of air traffic control is required.

But it's interesting that even Elon Musk has said he's not big on flying cars because with Teslas, "at least you don't have to worry about one falling on your head."  ;D
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: rboyd on April 27, 2017, 09:19:25 PM
Its a shame that the major international aviation treaty has a section banning the taxation of jet fuel, giving a free ride to the aviation industry. Quickest way to reduce air travel, and accelerate the drive for greater efficiency, would be to tax jet fuel the way we tax gasoline.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Bob Wallace on May 29, 2017, 10:49:48 PM
Battery energy density is not yet where we need it to be, but given the curve of battery improvement, this is a noteworthy goal.

Quote
A new startup is trying the more ambitious goal of building a battery-powered 150-seat plane to compete with 737-size aircrafts in the market for short-haul trips (under 300 miles).
https://electrek.co/2017/03/22/electric-plane-startup-150-seat-battery-powered-plane/

Quote
Hyperloop proposed to include magnetic levitation and linear electric motor propulsion inside a partial vacuum tube. Extreme high-speed trains already operate between China’s largest cities using magnetic levitation and linear motors.

A portion of that same infrastructure could be installed at airports that serve heavy freight transport aircraft, where a magnet suspended carriage would carry and accelerate an aircraft to well above its usual lift-off-speed.

At the present time, the Russian built Antonov AN-225 at 640 tons is the heaviest freight aircraft built. Much of its power is required to accelerate along a runway to lift-off speed before climbing to its cruising altitude. Mag-lev runways could theoretically accelerate a craft weighing well in excess of 1,500 tons to well above its lift-off speed....

http://maritime-executive.com/editorials/seeking-game-changers-for-international-freight (http://maritime-executive.com/editorials/seeking-game-changers-for-international-freight)

By using "ground power" to get planes into the air we could greatly cut the amount of battery storage necessary for electric flight.  Use batteries only for the cruising part.  This could move us to battery powered flight many years sooner.

And stick these new airports well outside urban areas.  Establish departure terminals around the area using Hyperloop systems to feed passengers to the airports that service flights over oceans.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on June 17, 2017, 05:28:38 PM
100 European Airports to Go Climate Neutral by 2030
Commitment in Support of Paris Agreement Goals
Quote
100 European airports are to be carbon neutral by 2030, according to the planning of the European branch of Airports Council International (ACI Europe). The council this week doubled its carbon neutrality target for 2030 in support of the central goal of the Paris Climate Change Agreement, which is to hold the global average temperature rise to as close as possible to 1.5°C.

Carbon emissions generated by airport operations account for up to 5% of total emissions from the aviation sector, and engagement of the airport industry is key to achieving the goals set out in the Paris Agreement. The aviation industry has a major interest in preventing more extreme weather from climate change, as more storms, heatwaves and turbulence will directly affect air travel.
...
http://newsroom.unfccc.int/climate-action/100-european-airports-to-go-climate-neutral-by-2030/ (http://newsroom.unfccc.int/climate-action/100-european-airports-to-go-climate-neutral-by-2030/)
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Tor Bejnar on June 17, 2017, 06:14:38 PM
Laudable, but that's the 'airport operations', not the airplanes that operate there (when on the ground).
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: numerobis on June 17, 2017, 08:57:04 PM
Laudable, but that's the 'airport operations', not the airplanes that operate there (when on the ground).

Airport ops burns a lot of fuel, produces a lot of local air pollution.

Electric aircraft tugs could taxi the aircraft around from terminal to runway and save that fuel, without needing to be carried up to the sky. Right now we don't use tugs around the airport much (except to push back) because they're expensive -- they are human-operated. It wouldn't be much of a technical challenge to retrofit a system to let the pilot control the tug though.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Tor Bejnar on June 17, 2017, 11:12:28 PM
It would be great if planes could power-down at the (slow) end of the runway, get 'picked up' by an autonomous EV tug that also feeds the airplane's electrical system (AC, lights), and be dragged silently to the terminal.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Bob Wallace on June 18, 2017, 12:27:59 AM
It would be great if planes could power-down at the (slow) end of the runway, get 'picked up' by an autonomous EV tug that also feeds the airplane's electrical system (AC, lights), and be dragged silently to the terminal.

I doubt that much of the total energy of flying would be saved.  The mass is already in motion and goes about a mile at low speed.

Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on June 18, 2017, 02:11:40 AM
It would be great if planes could power-down at the (slow) end of the runway, get 'picked up' by an autonomous EV tug that also feeds the airplane's electrical system (AC, lights), and be dragged silently to the terminal.

The idea of putting electric motors in airplane wheels for "green taxiing" goes back several years.  The most recent thing I find on it is this:
https://aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/24430/why-dont-large-commercial-airplanes-have-electric-motors-in-the-wheels (https://aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/24430/why-dont-large-commercial-airplanes-have-electric-motors-in-the-wheels)

Here's an article from 2012:  http://www.idtechex.com/events/presentations/hybrid-aircraft-electric-drive-for-ground-taxi-boeing-trial-002975.asp (http://www.idtechex.com/events/presentations/hybrid-aircraft-electric-drive-for-ground-taxi-boeing-trial-002975.asp)
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on June 18, 2017, 02:23:22 AM
Aircraft don't do well in extreme heat, for many different reasons affecting engine operation, flight characteristics, and passenger comfort, to name a few.  Planes parked at the gate have actually sunk into a softened tarmac surface!

This week's heat wave in the southwest U.S. is expected to affect airlines.  (Ref: Phoenix, Arizona's Sky Harbor airport.  Canadair Regional Jets.)

"The forecast for @PHXSkyHarbor calls for preposterous high temperatures over 120° F (49° C) & @AmericanAir may not be able to operate CRJs."
https://twitter.com/airlineflyer/status/876205450009747457

"I'm told by @AmericanAir that CRJs have an operational limit of around 118° F, so at the hottest time of day they may be temporary grounded."
https://twitter.com/airlineflyer/status/876205689135353857
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on June 20, 2017, 04:13:57 PM
The Science Of Why It's Too Hot For Some Planes To Fly In The Southwest U.S.
Quote
...
The Arizona Republic reported that around 50 flights for Tuesday were cancelled at Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport. These were primarily regional flights. According to The Arizona Republic:

a statement from American Airlines, the American Eagle regional flights use the Bombardier CRJ aircraft, which has a maximum operating temperature of 118 degrees. Tuesday's forecast for Phoenix includes a high of 120 degrees, and the flights that are affected were to take off between 3 and 6 p.m.....Larger jets that fly out of Sky Harbor have higher maximum operating temperatures: Boeing, 126 degrees, and Airbus, 127 degrees
...
https://www.forbes.com/sites/marshallshepherd/2017/06/20/the-science-of-why-its-too-hot-for-some-planes-to-fly-in-the-southwest-u-s/ (https://www.forbes.com/sites/marshallshepherd/2017/06/20/the-science-of-why-its-too-hot-for-some-planes-to-fly-in-the-southwest-u-s/)
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on June 21, 2017, 11:56:33 PM
A new all-electric aircraft with a range up to 600 miles unveiled at Paris Air Show
Quote
At the 52nd International Paris Air Show, Eviation Aircraft, a member of NASA’s on-demand mobility program, unveiled the first prototype of a new all-electric aircraft concept with a range of up to 600 miles (965 km)....

While it was the prototype’s debut this week, Eviation says that they are already flying proof of concept missions, and they plan to move into certification and commercialization as soon as next year.
...
Eviation claims that its electric aircraft is made possible by a new aluminum air battery....
https://electrek.co/2017/06/21/all-electric-aircraft-eviation/
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: rboyd on July 13, 2017, 07:52:11 PM
Climate-friendly air travel - say what?

Good article on the challenges for reducing aviation emissions. Points to the significant subsidies provided to the airline industry such as a lack of taxes on airline tickets and jet fuel, and no carbon taxes on flights. A big carbon tax (taking into account the much greater impact of emissions at altitude) would certainly drive some speed up in the level of innovation.

http://www.dw.com/en/climate-friendly-air-travel-say-what/a-39549089 (http://www.dw.com/en/climate-friendly-air-travel-say-what/a-39549089)
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on August 10, 2017, 06:32:05 PM
All-electric, autonomous, intra-city air taxi being developed for use in Dubai.  18 rotors.  9 battery packs.  30 minute flying time.

All-electric vertical take-off and landing aircraft gets $30 million investment led by Daimler
https://electrek.co/2017/08/10/all-electric-vertical-take-off-and-landing-aircraft-volocopter-daimler/
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: rboyd on August 10, 2017, 09:08:40 PM
All-electric, autonomous, intra-city air taxi being developed for use in Dubai.  18 rotors.  9 battery packs.  30 minute flying time.

All-electric vertical take-off and landing aircraft gets $30 million investment led by Daimler
https://electrek.co/2017/08/10/all-electric-vertical-take-off-and-landing-aircraft-volocopter-daimler/

The picture says it all, the rich being able to fly above the reality of the 99% below them from their luxury apartment to their luxury office. The world below them may be dystopian, but they are safely immune. Maybe the next innovation is really cheap surface to air missiles for the masses?
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: numerobis on August 10, 2017, 09:54:30 PM
Surely the masses will be using rail guns powered by renewable electricity.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: TerryM on August 10, 2017, 09:57:19 PM
All-electric, autonomous, intra-city air taxi being developed for use in Dubai.  18 rotors.  9 battery packs.  30 minute flying time.

All-electric vertical take-off and landing aircraft gets $30 million investment led by Daimler
https://electrek.co/2017/08/10/all-electric-vertical-take-off-and-landing-aircraft-volocopter-daimler/ (https://electrek.co/2017/08/10/all-electric-vertical-take-off-and-landing-aircraft-volocopter-daimler/)

The picture says it all, the rich being able to fly above the reality of the 99% below them from their luxury apartment to their luxury office. The world below them may be dystopian, but they are safely immune. Maybe the next innovation is really cheap surface to air missiles for the masses?
Little Bubba will get good practice for duck season. Better to go back to our luxurious underground palaces linked by silent, speedy TeslaTunnels. The whole trickle down thing lost it's glory when holding tanks were installed.
Terry
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on August 11, 2017, 01:29:05 PM
Another way of looking at this:  compare it with Elon Musk and his Tesla Roadster. Taking a big chance, investing millions on a new form of sustainable transportation — at first available only to the very rich, but within a few years affordable to a majority of the population. I say, props to Dubai for advancing this very new form of clean air travel.  It will help advance the introduction of bigger electric planes and reduce aviation's carbon footprint.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: numerobis on August 11, 2017, 05:16:04 PM
I hate the electric plane policy. It might end up being the way of the future, but for terrible reasons.

Most short-range flight (1,000 km or less) could be replaced by a train, which would be safer, more efficient, faster, cheaper. Exception would be short flights that cross large bodies of water, or short flights between small communities.

A long-range flight would require a huge improvement in energy density. I'm not sure batteries are even theoretically capable.

The only reason not to replace the short-range flights with trains is political will. Which I suspect means that in practice we're stuck with electric planes.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: ghoti on August 11, 2017, 06:36:31 PM
Quote
The only reason not to replace the short-range flights with trains is political will. Which I suspect means that in practice we're stuck with electric planes.
If only this were true. The reason short-range flights have not already been replaced with trains has been shown over and over again to be cost of building fast train lines.

The amount of money involved is so huge that only governments can finance it but very few can ever come up with the funding. Remember this kind of travel is only for a very small percentage of the population. The costs are much too high relative to the votes associated with them.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: numerobis on August 11, 2017, 08:55:15 PM
ghoti: you say I'm wrong but then you write the same argument that I made. I'm confused. The cost of high-speed rail is much lower than the cost of air transit. The up-front cost is higher, but the operating cost is much lower. Why does society decide to pay for short-haul air transit rather than high-speed rail? That's exactly a question of political will.

Close to half of all Americans fly in any given year. In Europe it's lower because there is a decent rail network. There's no shortage of individuals flying around.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Bob Wallace on August 11, 2017, 09:39:28 PM
Quote
Why does society decide to pay for short-haul air transit rather than high-speed rail?

Lack of consideration of overall cost?  Lack of knowledge about overall cost?

Building a HSR system is a huge cost that has to receive commitment before work commences. 

Airport expansions happen here and there and  largely out of public sight. 

HSR construction is also disruptive for those along the route. 

Carbon costs are never included.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on August 11, 2017, 09:54:38 PM
Numerobis wrote: “The only reason not to replace the short-range flights with trains is political will. …”

Other reasons:
- Adverse Terrain
- Environmental Damage/disruption
- “Not in my backyard” and quality of life issues
- Track/ roadbed maintenance costs, including climate-change related risks
- Cost of tracks extending to small communities:  Vertical takeoff and landing aircraft allow “point to point” feeder transportation to and from big towns (small/rooftop heliports) and small towns (little more than a decent sized parking lot or field required, versus miles of tracks and potentially underused train stations).
- More flexible scheduling of air travel make transportation to small towns feasible where the cost of a track for only an occasional use would be prohibitive.

Quote
Siemens will bring this technology to its electric flight collaboration with Airbus. The two companies hope to prove the technical feasibility of hybrid electric drive systems for regional aircraft by 2020. This will require power ratings of up to 10 megawatts. “We expect to see the first aircraft with up to 100 passengers and a range of approximately 1,000 kilometers by 2030,” said Anton.
https://chargedevs.com/newswire/electric-airplane-with-siemens-drive-system-sets-ascent-record/

Airbus and Siemens collaborate on hybrid electric propulsion systems for aircraft
https://chargedevs.com/newswire/airbus-and-siemens-collaborate-on-hybrid-propulsion-systems-for-aircraft/
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: rboyd on August 11, 2017, 10:53:37 PM
Building railways doesn't seem to be a problem in Europe, Japan or China. An issue of political will and the strength of the airline and other fossil fuel lobbies perhaps, in North America.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: ghoti on August 11, 2017, 11:09:23 PM
Building railways doesn't seem to be a problem in Europe, Japan or China. An issue of political will and the strength of the airline and other fossil fuel lobbies perhaps, in North America.
More like density of population serviced. Many many more people per train-mile.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Bob Wallace on August 12, 2017, 01:23:42 AM
Density and history.

Many US cities are relatively new and grew up around the automobile.  Most European cities (like the oldest US cities) developed using more public transportation.

In Europe people have always had the Metro, the Tube and local trains.  There was a familiarity with rail transport.  That's not true in the US.  I would be surprised if more than 25% of all Californians have ever been on a train. 

In Europe you were already traveling city to city by rail.  HSR was an improvement on technology already in use.  In the US passenger rail is unknown to most people.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: wili on August 12, 2017, 02:48:25 AM
wellll, some cities are newer than rail. But many/most current major US cities had extensive rail and trolley systems in the US up till the 40's and 50's when mostly corrupt politicians influenced by car, oil, concrete and other interests arranged to have them ripped out. This is well documented history. Try it some time.

And of course Europe hasn't "always'' had Metro, etc. When they did get new kinds of public transport though, it was often an occasion for celebration and compositions!  ;D :

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/02/140212093136.htm (https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/02/140212093136.htm)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTSAZAHiOa8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTSAZAHiOa8)
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Bob Wallace on August 12, 2017, 03:01:17 AM
LA, for example, had 1.5 million people in 1940.  Few who made use of the trolley system are still alive and kicking.  Most of the current 4 million people now living in LA have no trolley memories.

You can blame "the corporations" for tearing out US urban rail systems, but I don't think there was much of a public outrage.  People were moving into a new age of cars and buses.

The US (outside of NYC and possibly a few other NE cities) have a very heavy car mindset.

I'm not arguing that that's good, just that it exists.  US people, in general, see no value in HSR.  I differ because I've used HSR in Europe and Asia, traveling to places with really good public transportation systems. 

HSR to many US cities and then?  Get jerked around by taxi costs or spend major amounts of time waiting for a bus?
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: rboyd on August 12, 2017, 07:20:57 PM
The building of the motorway network was funded by the government after WW2, which together with the destruction of trollies etc. by the car/oil companies, lead to the suburbanization of the US. Helped by many other public policies, such as zoning laws.

Yes, "we are where we are" but the problem is that its not where we need to be. We need people in power who actually believe in climate change AND will act as if it a real emergency (unlike the incrementalism of Obama, Clinton, Trudeau, Merkel etc.). Otherwise, we run the risk that when the SHTF we will see extreme right wing populism (Trump on steroids) rather than constructive governance.

With CO2e well above 500ppm, we need immediate and large cuts in emissions. The market by itself will not supply that. Emissions from aviation by 2030 will be much larger than now and we will probably be close to blowing 2 degrees by then.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: numerobis on August 12, 2017, 10:36:34 PM
Quote
Quote
Siemens will bring this technology to its electric flight collaboration with Airbus. The two companies hope to prove the technical feasibility of hybrid electric drive systems for regional aircraft by 2020. This will require power ratings of up to 10 megawatts. “We expect to see the first aircraft with up to 100 passengers and a range of approximately 1,000 kilometers by 2030,” said Anton.
https://chargedevs.com/newswire/electric-airplane-with-siemens-drive-system-sets-ascent-record/

Airbus and Siemens collaborate on hybrid electric propulsion systems for aircraft
https://chargedevs.com/newswire/airbus-and-siemens-collaborate-on-hybrid-propulsion-systems-for-aircraft/
[/quote]

I have no doubt we can make practical short-range electric planes with current or soon-to-be-developed tech.

But there's a limit to the range. Let's say you have a plane that can uses 1 kWh per km. It currently goes 1,000 km max range. Now let's redesign it to go 1,100 km. The energy storage mass needs to increase 10% assuming it has the same efficiency. But now you've got a plane that 10% heavier -- so it's using more energy per km. In other words, you need to burn more energy just to bring the extra energy with you.

In the end, the math on that is exponential: no matter how much range you have now, to go an extra km, you need to bring an extra x% more mass in storage. Theoretically you can go any range, but your plane becomes exponentially more expensive as you extend the range.

On top of that you will soon find that your engines aren't powerful enough, your wings not large enough, and your landing gear doesn't distribute the weight enough, so you need to expand those, which means you now need more energy, which etc etc -- and that leads to a hard physical limit based on the efficiency of your engines and airframe versus the energy storage density.

Gasoline (whether from petroleum or from modern plants) has two huge advantages in this game over batteries: (1) it's much denser than even the theoretically best lithium battery; (2) you aren't always carrying all the mass -- you can take off with less mass if you've got a short flight, and you (almost) always land with a light plane.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Bob Wallace on August 13, 2017, 12:24:35 AM
Energy mass needs to increase to extend range. 

Or energy capacity per mass needs to increase to increase range.

Historically battery capacity has been increasing 8% a year.  That's actually a stairstep history, not some sort of smooth linear increase, but capacity has grown and there's no theoretical reason it shouldn't continue to increase.

Gasoline (actually jets burn high grade kerosene) does have a energy/mass advantage but there's that nasty carbon problem we have to solve. 

And I'm not sure about kero's advantage over the best theoretical battery.  Remember, there's a very large efficiency difference between electric motors and turbines.  Musk has said that battery powered flight becomes practical when batteries reach about 400 Wh/kg.  Currently we're around 250 Wh/kg in use, higher claims in the labs.  I think the theoretical limit for lithium-ion is about 1,000 Wh/kg.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: numerobis on August 13, 2017, 03:30:59 PM
I've read the theoretical max for lithium is more like 60x what's currently available; the 4x must be for lithium-cobalt? Regardless, it's much less dense than jet fuel.

This is the one place where I expect we'll be using renewable energy to make liquid fuel, rather than using batteries. Hopefully we settle on a fuel that burns cleaner than kerosene.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: ghoti on August 14, 2017, 10:33:27 PM
I often wonder why there is so little consideration for biofuel for aviation to reduce (or eliminate) net carbon emissions from planes. It is proven technology which is mostly limited by high cost at this point.

Turns out biofuels can also reduce  other pollution currently emitted by jet engines.

https://climate.nasa.gov/news/2580/nasa-study-confirms-biofuels-reduce-jet-engine-pollution/#.WP-pErf3r4g.facebook (https://climate.nasa.gov/news/2580/nasa-study-confirms-biofuels-reduce-jet-engine-pollution/#.WP-pErf3r4g.facebook)
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: magnamentis on August 15, 2017, 01:11:01 AM
I often wonder why there is so little consideration for biofuel for aviation to reduce (or eliminate) net carbon emissions from planes. It is proven technology which is mostly limited by high cost at this point.

Turns out biofuels can also reduce  other pollution currently emitted by jet engines.

https://climate.nasa.gov/news/2580/nasa-study-confirms-biofuels-reduce-jet-engine-pollution/#.WP-pErf3r4g.facebook (https://climate.nasa.gov/news/2580/nasa-study-confirms-biofuels-reduce-jet-engine-pollution/#.WP-pErf3r4g.facebook)

depends which biofuel, fuel from "FOOD" is a bullet in starving peoples foot as well as bad for those who cannot easily or at all afford raising basic food prices like corn, wheat and the likes.

there are many enough examples where biofuel has started to produced ins significant quantities while they were far from the quantities needed to replace fossil fuel and already there have arisen serious issues as mentioned above and more.

food, as long as there are people who starve on this planet is a crime to be used for energy purposes hence if biofuel it has to be produced from real waste and with very strong regulations.

the regulations needed i don't trust will be implemented due to our corrupt and lobby driven
political system, especially once the big players join the party in serious.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Bob Wallace on August 15, 2017, 01:45:12 AM
Starving people is not caused by biofuel.  It's largely a problem of distribution (means and financing).

Both the US and Africa waste around 45% of the food they produce (one is 40%, one 50% - I think Africa is 40%).  In the US we leave perfectly good food 'in the field' and throw it out when it's still consumable.  We let it rot in our refrigerators and scrape the "too much" off our plates.  In Africa a lot of production is lost due to inability to store and move food to market.

That is not advocacy for biofuel for planes. 

But if we don't come up with a better solution biofuels for long distance flight may be a way to get fossil fuels out of our skies.  (Move short and medium length travel to HSR or, possibly, the Hyperloop.  Hopefully move long distance trips to the 'loop as well.)
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: numerobis on August 15, 2017, 02:22:55 AM
Maybe biofuel for planes can help farmers handle the transition away from biofuels for buses.

The issue with biofuel stealing food is mostly that subsistence farmers have a tendency of getting evicted for plantations. And biofuels are exacerbating that tendency. But on a much larger scale, get annoyed at biofood for animals: there's an awful lot of eviction and deforestation going on to grow soy for cows.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: ghoti on August 15, 2017, 03:20:20 PM
Maybe biofuel for planes can help farmers handle the transition away from biofuels for buses.

The issue with biofuel stealing food is mostly that subsistence farmers have a tendency of getting evicted for plantations. And biofuels are exacerbating that tendency. But on a much larger scale, get annoyed at biofood for animals: there's an awful lot of eviction and deforestation going on to grow soy for cows.
Where are these people that are getting evicted for biofuel production? There isn't much biofuel being produced. More than 2/3 of the world's biofuel is produced in the US where there is still surplus production. Most of the other 1/3 of biofuel produced in the world is in Brazil from sugarcane.

Far more forest destruction and crop displacement is for trashy "food" crops like palm oil grown to supply western consumers.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: TerryM on August 15, 2017, 08:10:23 PM
I often wonder why there is so little consideration for biofuel for aviation to reduce (or eliminate) net carbon emissions from planes. It is proven technology which is mostly limited by high cost at this point.

Turns out biofuels can also reduce  other pollution currently emitted by jet engines.

https://climate.nasa.gov/news/2580/nasa-study-confirms-biofuels-reduce-jet-engine-pollution/#.WP-pErf3r4g.facebook (https://climate.nasa.gov/news/2580/nasa-study-confirms-biofuels-reduce-jet-engine-pollution/#.WP-pErf3r4g.facebook)


I believe I've read that when air travel was halted in the US in the days following 9/11, temperatures jumped by something like 2C? If biofuels don't emit as many sun blocking aerosols as our familiar kerosene derivatives, we might expect a temperature bump that would open the door to many feedbacks.


Terry
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: N00bi-Wan on August 16, 2017, 11:19:45 PM
I believe I've read that when air travel was halted in the US in the days following 9/11, temperatures jumped by something like 2C? If biofuels don't emit as many sun blocking aerosols as our familiar kerosene derivatives, we might expect a temperature bump that would open the door to many feedbacks.
From Kalkstein & Bolling (2004) "Impact of unusually clear weather on United States daily temperature range following 9/11/2001 (http://www.int-res.com/articles/cr2002/cr2004/26/c026p001.pdf)" [PDF]:
Quote
Travis et  al. (2002) did not control for the air-mass conditions across the US that may have been responsible for the observed increase in diurnal temperature range immediately following the attacks.
By controlling for the air masses present  across the US, we found that the unusual temperatures on 11 and 12  September were a result of a particularly clear weather pattern, not a lack of jet contrails.
There's apparently still no definitive answer as to whether a cooling effect of air traffic, attributed to the contrail-cirrus merging-expanding phenomenon, is significant, or even measurable.

The contribution of air traffic to anthropogenic radiative forcing, via emissions of several greenhouse gases is, on the other hand, rather unambiguous.   
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: TerryM on August 17, 2017, 04:22:56 PM
Thanks Noob, I hadn't followed the story, but had assumed it to have been more or less true.


I've been moderately concerned recently about the possibility of covert meddling in geo-engineering by party, or parties unknown.
This is another season that has started out breaking all records, then rapidly reverted to the norm. It's almost certainly natural feedbacks that weren't expected. But in the past I'd have started the last sentence - It's certainly natural feedbacks ...
The aviation connection is the patterned flying we've seen signs of in the Arctic for the first time this year.


Terry
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on September 27, 2017, 07:11:57 PM
Electric airplane startup Wright Electric and easyJet join force to bring all-electric aircraft to market
Quote
Earlier this year, US-based electric plane startup Wright Electric stepped out of stealth to unveil its vision to bring a short-haul all-electric aircraft to market.

Today, they announced that British airline easyJet is joining their effort.

The company wrote in a press release today:
“A collaboration with US company Wright Electric will support the goal for short-haul flights to be operated by all-electric planes. Wright Electric has set itself the challenge of building an all-electric commercial passenger jet capable of flying passengers across easyJet’s UK and European network within a decade.”

The startup is trying the ambitious goal of building a battery-powered 150-seat plane to compete with 737-size aircrafts in the market for short-haul trips (under 300 miles).

That’s the type of trip that works well for a European airline like easyJet. The airline announced today “a strategy to progressively decarbonise and reduce noise from aviation operations.” The collaboration with Wright Electric was first on the list for that strategy. ...
https://electrek.co/2017/09/27/electric-airplane-startup-easyjet-join-force-all-electric-aircraft-market/
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on September 28, 2017, 09:04:38 PM
Electric VTOL drone aircraft, capable of carrying people, with a range of about 20 miles.

A new two-seater electric VTOL manned aircraft launches in burgeoning passenger drone industry
https://electrek.co/2017/09/28/passenger-drone-electric-manned-aircraft/

I could see something like this being useful in situations like we currently have in Puerto Rico, to get supplies to -- and evacuate people from -- locations inaccessible by road.  Maximizing cargo capacity by eliminating the pilot, once ground control is established at the site.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on November 28, 2017, 05:52:50 PM
“Those are not likely to go electric until some major improvements in energy density for batteries, but it looks like they are focusing on electric motors and controls to be ready when batteries do catch up.”

Airbus partners with Rolls-Royce and Siemens to build a large electric airplane
Quote
The project they are collaborating on is the ‘E-Fan X’, a BAe 146 plane on which they are testing their electric motor technology.  During ground tests, they already replaced one of the four gas turbines by a two-megawatt electric motor.
...
Once they better test and understand the first electric motor, they will replace a gas turbine with another one and batteries will support takeoff and climbing. ...

Quote
In the E-Fan X, the electric propulsion system obtains its power from a generator that is powered by a turbine in the fuselage. Take-off and climbing will be supported by lithium-ion batteries, each of which will have 700-kilowatts of power. As a flying testbed serves a BAe 146 regional plane with one of the aircraft’s four gas turbine engines replaced by a two megawatt electric motor from Siemens. The maiden flight is expected in 2020.
https://electrek.co/2017/11/28/airbus-partners-rolls-royce-siemens-build-electric-plane/
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Bob Wallace on November 30, 2017, 06:50:16 AM
Quote
Through genetic engineering, researchers from the University of Illinois have produced a new form of sugarcane, called lipidcane, whose leaves contain 12 percent oil, instead of the natural level of 0.05 percent. They are working to produce a variety they call energycane, with 20 percent oil. The new plant variety could produce enough oil to produce biodiesel and jet-fuel economically, they write.


 In a recent study, we found that use of this engineered sugarcane could yield more than 2,500 liters of bio-jet fuel per acre of land. In simple terms, this means that a Boeing 747 could fly for 10 hours on bio-jet fuel produced on just 54 acres of land. Compared to two competing plant sources, soybeans and jatropha, lipidcane would produce about 15 and 13 times as much jet fuel per unit of land, respectively.

If we devoted 23 million acres in the southeastern United States to lipidcane with 20 percent oil, we estimate that this crop could produce 65 percent of the U.S. jet fuel supply. Presently, in current dollars, that fuel would cost airlines US$5.31 per gallon, which is less than bio-jet fuel produced from algae or other oil crops such as soybeans, canola or palm oil.

http://energypost.eu/energycane-a-wonder-biofuel-for-the-aviation-sector/

Reduce the number of miles flown per year with high speed rail and we might be able to fuel the flight we need this way.

Just something that might pan out....
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: TerryM on November 30, 2017, 10:00:49 AM
Quote
Through genetic engineering, researchers from the University of Illinois have produced a new form of sugarcane, called lipidcane, whose leaves contain 12 percent oil, instead of the natural level of 0.05 percent. They are working to produce a variety they call energycane, with 20 percent oil. The new plant variety could produce enough oil to produce biodiesel and jet-fuel economically, they write.


 In a recent study, we found that use of this engineered sugarcane could yield more than 2,500 liters of bio-jet fuel per acre of land. In simple terms, this means that a Boeing 747 could fly for 10 hours on bio-jet fuel produced on just 54 acres of land. Compared to two competing plant sources, soybeans and jatropha, lipidcane would produce about 15 and 13 times as much jet fuel per unit of land, respectively.

If we devoted 23 million acres in the southeastern United States to lipidcane with 20 percent oil, we estimate that this crop could produce 65 percent of the U.S. jet fuel supply. Presently, in current dollars, that fuel would cost airlines US$5.31 per gallon, which is less than bio-jet fuel produced from algae or other oil crops such as soybeans, canola or palm oil.

http://energypost.eu/energycane-a-wonder-biofuel-for-the-aviation-sector/ (http://energypost.eu/energycane-a-wonder-biofuel-for-the-aviation-sector/)

Reduce the number of miles flown per year with high speed rail and we might be able to fuel the flight we need this way.

Just something that might pan out....


Cuba's sugar cane plantations could again become viable!
Terry
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on January 10, 2018, 05:15:46 PM
20 kWh battery gives 1 hour of quiet, non-polluting flight, with a 30-minute reserve.  (Any quieter and you’d have to be a glider. ;) )

“Slovenia-based light aircraft maker Pipistrel had its Alpha Electro all-electric plane approved for flight in Australia and now the plane is going into operation in Perth.”

A new battery-electric airplane goes into production as popularity grows with flight schools
https://electrek.co/2018/01/10/battery-electric-airplane-production-pipistrelp-alpha-electro/
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on January 18, 2018, 04:37:15 PM
Norway wants all short-haul flights be all-electric by 2040.

Quote
Avinor, a state-owned company that operates most of the civil airports in Norway under the Ministry of Transport and Communications, made the announcement this week.

Dag Falk-Petersen, Avinor’s chief executive, believes that all-electric planes are powerful enough to replace all regional planes in the relatively small country.  He said (via The Local) “We think that all flights lasting up to 1.5 hours can be flown by aircraft that are entirely electric.”

That would cover all domestic flights and those to neighboring Scandinavian capitals, according to the executive.  Avinor announced that it is working on a tender offer for a small electric plane with 19 seats to be tested on commercial routes by 2025. ...
https://electrek.co/2018/01/18/norway-electric-flight/
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on January 21, 2018, 03:18:38 PM
Flying in the little Pipistrel electric trainer airplane, in Australia.

http://reneweconomy.com.au/electric-aircraft-coming-soon-to-an-airfield-near-you-75716/
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on January 25, 2018, 09:04:39 PM
More on the all-electric Pipistrel light sport plane.

“@talkingtesla @rrosenbl Just got to the end of Ep122 and you mentioned the Pipistrel Alpha Electro! Look what myself & a few other Tesla owners in WA have been among the first to fly in. 100% electric, 2 x 10kWh LiPo batteries, 60kW motor w. regen, 550Kg incl. 2pax, 60m flight :) “
https://twitter.com/trickydickychap/status/955993968382115840
More photos at the link.

“Absolutely. It’s still noisy with wind but you can have a conversation without headphones! Take-off distance is tiny and so responsive it’s incredible. We were doing -G and +G manoeuvres and it was great. Costs a handful of dollars fuel per flight but batteries are €20K/1000hrs.”
https://twitter.com/trickydickychap/status/956425491539308544

“Very cool. And yes range is fine, has a 20min Reserve as well. Pre-flight is so quick as no pressures to build up like with piston-engine. Can turn off prop on the taxiway to save power too! Recharge is about 45 minutes to ~97% as the charger is only 20kW max. Pics from manual.”
https://twitter.com/trickydickychap/status/956434599223050241
More photos at the link.

Edit: my favorite feature: Regen!  Recapture some of the energy from the (fixed pitch) spinning propeller during descent or when reducing airspeed. Cool. 8)
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Hefaistos on January 27, 2018, 05:34:44 PM
Commercial aircraft emit contrails that are estimated to create clouds that cover 10 % of Europe on a clear day. Contrails are also warming the atmosphere, according to research done by German DLR and NASA:  "... contrails and the cirrus clouds that are formed as a result are thought to have a greater warming effect on Earth's atmosphere than the total carbon dioxide emissions that have accumulated as a result of air travel over the last century or more. ... Contrails contain many small ice particles that form due to the condensation of water vapour on the soot particles in aircraft exhaust gases. Contrails can linger for several hours in humid, cold conditions at altitudes of between eight and 12 kilometres, forming high-level clouds called contrail cirrus. Depending on the position of the Sun and the ground, these clouds can have a local warming or cooling effect. Knowledge of this is essential for assessing the climate impact of aviation. The research conducted thus far suggests that a warming effect is predominant globally."

Aviation seems to be one of the worst contributors to global warming, and an industry that is more or less ignorant to CO2 emissions.

http://www.dlr.de/dlr/en/desktopdefault.aspx/tabid-10204/296_read-25658/#/gallery/20878
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Bob Wallace on January 27, 2018, 05:58:06 PM
Quote
Aviation seems to be one of the worst contributors to global warming, and an industry that is more or less ignorant to CO2 emissions.

Aren't you getting ahead of the research with that claim?

Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: numerobis on January 27, 2018, 11:02:42 PM
AR5 has contrails being a relatively small amount, less than 0.1 C. And it can go away instantly if we fix the engines or reduce flying or whatever.

Aviation is a few percent of global emissions.

It’s definitely a part of the problem of course.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: numerobis on January 29, 2018, 09:26:01 PM
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2018/01/flight-from-los-angeles-to-melbourne-powered-in-part-by-mustard-seed-oil

Mustard seed oil to power aviation. Apparently they can get 400 litres of "fuel" per hectare, along with 1400 litres of diesel. They are testing it as a blend right now; presumably they expect to increase the blend.

Some quick figures on the Ars forum: it would be about a million billion hectares to power all aviation from the biofuel (assuming they can be trusted to run a 100% blend) -- and then we'd have a btrillion and a half litres of biodiesel to power ships with or for emergency backup or whatever.

Advantage of mustard seed: it grows in arid conditions.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Bob Wallace on January 29, 2018, 11:45:42 PM
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2018/01/flight-from-los-angeles-to-melbourne-powered-in-part-by-mustard-seed-oil

Mustard seed oil to power aviation. Apparently they can get 400 litres of "fuel" per hectare, along with 1400 litres of diesel. They are testing it as a blend right now; presumably they expect to increase the blend.

Some quick figures on the Ars forum: it would be about a million billion hectares to power all aviation from the biofuel (assuming they can be trusted to run a 100% blend) -- and then we'd have a btrillion and a half litres of biodiesel to power ships with or for emergency backup or whatever.

Advantage of mustard seed: it grows in arid conditions.

To be a solution there needs to be no fossil fuel involved.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on January 30, 2018, 03:39:59 PM
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2018/01/flight-from-los-angeles-to-melbourne-powered-in-part-by-mustard-seed-oil

Mustard seed oil to power aviation. Apparently they can get 400 litres of "fuel" per hectare, along with 1400 litres of diesel. They are testing it as a blend right now; presumably they expect to increase the blend.

Some quick figures on the Ars forum: it would be about a million billion hectares to power all aviation from the biofuel (assuming they can be trusted to run a 100% blend) -- and then we'd have a btrillion and a half litres of biodiesel to power ships with or for emergency backup or whatever.

Advantage of mustard seed: it grows in arid conditions.

To be a solution there needs to be no fossil fuel involved.

That was my thought as well.  This seems very much like the corn ethanol idea.  Yes, it means a bit less fossil fuel, but crops need to be grown for food, not fuel.  Battery tech is improving so fast, these types of experiments will only be useful for short time.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: numerobis on January 30, 2018, 03:54:31 PM
Good luck convincing someone to fly a passenger aircraft with a 100% synthetic fuel before testing with blends.

Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: gerontocrat on January 30, 2018, 04:40:05 PM
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2018/01/flight-from-los-angeles-to-melbourne-powered-in-part-by-mustard-seed-oil
: it would be about a million billion hectares to power all aviation from the biofuel (assuming they can be trusted to run a 100% blend) -- and then we'd have a btrillion and a half litres of biodiesel to power ships with or for emergency backup or whatever.

Advantage of mustard seed: it grows in arid conditions.

Lunacy, utter and complete lunacy, to think a billion hectares of the earth's land should be switched to growing mustard so people on the planes can feel environmentally friendly.

What / where billion hectares ? Currently growing food? Currently supporting other life? No downsides ?

Biofuels is a con - belongs in "you can have your cake and eat it" pitch from the snake-oil salesmen.

https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,317.msg140018.html#msg140018
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Bob Wallace on January 30, 2018, 05:48:00 PM
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2018/01/flight-from-los-angeles-to-melbourne-powered-in-part-by-mustard-seed-oil
: it would be about a million billion hectares to power all aviation from the biofuel (assuming they can be trusted to run a 100% blend) -- and then we'd have a btrillion and a half litres of biodiesel to power ships with or for emergency backup or whatever.

Advantage of mustard seed: it grows in arid conditions.

Lunacy, utter and complete lunacy, to think a billion hectares of the earth's land should be switched to growing mustard so people on the planes can feel environmentally friendly.

What / where billion hectares ? Currently growing food? Currently supporting other life? No downsides ?

Biofuels is a con - belongs in "you can have your cake and eat it" pitch from the snake-oil salesmen.

https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,317.msg140018.html#msg140018

So give us your solution for rapid long distance travel.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: gerontocrat on January 30, 2018, 06:03:19 PM
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2018/01/flight-from-los-angeles-to-melbourne-powered-in-part-by-mustard-seed-oil
: it would be about a million billion hectares to power all aviation from the biofuel (assuming they can be trusted to run a 100% blend) -- and then we'd have a btrillion and a half litres of biodiesel to power ships with or for emergency backup or whatever.

Advantage of mustard seed: it grows in arid conditions.

Lunacy, utter and complete lunacy, to think a billion hectares of the earth's land should be switched to growing mustard so people on the planes can feel environmentally friendly.

What / where billion hectares ? Currently growing food? Currently supporting other life? No downsides ?

Biofuels is a con - belongs in "you can have your cake and eat it" pitch from the snake-oil salesmen.

https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,317.msg140018.html#msg140018

So give us your solution for rapid long distance travel.

If you are asking for a solution that allows growth ad infinitum in long-distance aviation travel, the answer is there is not one. As the must-read posts suggest, there are wizards who believe technology will always be able to fix limitations on human economic activity, and there are prophets who believe that every system has its limit. Tis my opinion that we are a bit damn close to that limit for this planet, and fixing CO2 at the cost of everything else will not work.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: wili on January 30, 2018, 06:24:36 PM
"solution for rapid long distance travel"

Do a lot less or none of it.

It's never going to be sustainable for hundreds of millions of people to be constantly zipping around the globe, mostly for frivolous activities or things that could be done over the internet.

It's time we just wake up to this fact and start scaling back our obsession over being somewhere else.

(I haven't been on a plane in 15 years, and I had a party to celebrate it!  :) )
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Bob Wallace on January 30, 2018, 06:57:03 PM
"solution for rapid long distance travel"

Do a lot less or none of it.

It's never going to be sustainable for hundreds of millions of people to be constantly zipping around the globe, mostly for frivolous activities or things that could be done over the internet.

It's time we just wake up to this fact and start scaling back our obsession over being somewhere else.

(I haven't been on a plane in 15 years, and I had a party to celebrate it!  :) )

The only way that I can see to make your solution work is to highly ration or outlaw rapid long distance.  That could be done in an autocratic state like China but try it in a democracy and those elected officials would be rapidly voted out of office.

Never is a long, long time.  If batteries were 2x to 3x more efficient we could be zipping around the globe on sunshine.  I
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: wili on January 30, 2018, 07:38:36 PM
Or you could tax jet fuel, which many states don't, and others barely do. And increase the tax nationally (couldn't find data ready at had on that).

https://taxfoundation.org/combined-effective-commercial-jet-fuel-tax-rates-and-fees-state/

The title of this article suggests that in the UK at least, jet fuel isn't taxed at all: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/should-aviation-fuel-be-taxed-07nc8wnmzmm

Also note:

Quote
Article 24 of the [1944 Convention of International Civil Aviation] requires all contracting states not to charge duty on aviation fuel already on board any aircraft that has arrived in their territory from another contracting state. Further to this, the exemption of airlines from national taxes and customs duties on a range of aviation-related goods, including parts, stores and fuel is a standard element of the network of bilateral ‘Air Service Agreements’ (ASAs) between individual countries.

https://aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/41064/do-airlines-in-the-us-or-uk-have-to-pay-fuel-taxes

Looks like it's time to renegotiate that old agreement!

Of course a general tax on carbon would go some way in this direction. I do think, though, that at this point stronger measures are called for.


Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: gerontocrat on January 30, 2018, 08:36:46 PM
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2018/01/flight-from-los-angeles-to-melbourne-powered-in-part-by-mustard-seed-oil
: it would be about a million billion hectares to power all aviation from the biofuel (assuming they can be trusted to run a 100% blend) -- and then we'd have a btrillion and a half litres of biodiesel to power ships with or for emergency backup or whatever.

Advantage of mustard seed: it grows in arid conditions.

Lunacy, utter and complete lunacy, to think a billion hectares of the earth's land should be switched to growing mustard so people on the planes can feel environmentally friendly.

What / where billion hectares ? Currently growing food? Currently supporting other life? No downsides ?

Biofuels is a con - belongs in "you can have your cake and eat it" pitch from the snake-oil salesmen.


2nd Thoughts. A Billion Hectares required? That is 10 million km2, about the same as the land area of the USA (9.834 million km²). No way.

Time for some ENVIRONMENTAL ARITHMETIC

So how much fuel does aviation use? 30.14 thousand barrels per day in 2012, Call it 32 by now.

http://www.theglobaleconomy.com/rankings/jet_fuel_consumption/
Jet fuel consumption - country data from around the world:The average for 2012 was 30.14 thousand barrels per day.

The arithmetic below says that the required area would be just under 50,000 km2 (20% of the UK land area), 5 million hectares, producing just under 2 billion of jet fuel and 6.5 billion of diesel per annum ( not 1.5 trillion). If I am right with my calculation there is something odd going on. But bio-fuels are still a con.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: gerontocrat on January 30, 2018, 10:08:17 PM
3rd Thoughts re Mustard Seed for BioFuel.

The push for this development is from Australia. Need 50,000 km2, and can grow in arid/semi-arid conditions. Queensland farmers are clearing vast areas of bush and forest (never mind the Great Barrier Reef receiving large quantities of sediment run-off).

What to grow on it? Mustard !? Job done and bugger to the environment.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: numerobis on January 31, 2018, 01:09:11 AM
gerontocrat: your link shows a lot more than 32,000 barrels per day. It shows 1,400,000 barrels per day for the US for instance. The figures I saw were about 5 million barrels per day globally.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: gerontocrat on January 31, 2018, 02:50:38 AM
Quite right - so why did the intro say 30.14 thousand barrels per day? Tomorrow I will start again with ICAO Data , which is in million metric tonnes
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: gerontocrat on January 31, 2018, 12:10:08 PM
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2018/01/flight-from-los-angeles-to-melbourne-powered-in-part-by-mustard-seed-oil

Mustard seed oil to power aviation. Apparently they can get 400 litres of "fuel" per hectare, along with 1400 litres of diesel. They are testing it as a blend right now; presumably they expect to increase the blend.

Some quick figures on the Ars forum: it would be about a million billion hectares to power all aviation from the biofuel (assuming they can be trusted to run a 100% blend) -- and then we'd have a btrillion and a half litres of biodiesel to power ships with or for emergency backup or whatever.

Advantage of mustard seed: it grows in arid conditions.

To be a solution there needs to be no fossil fuel involved.

Having used the wrong figure for Global jet Fuel Consumption - I've done it again, using data from The International Civil Aviation Authority - 2016 Jet Fuel Burn.

Burn is about 240 million metric tonnes per annum, density of jet fuel 840 kg per m3, gives 286 million m3 ('000 litres) per annum.

Result, land required for 100% supply to the Aviation Industry:- 7.15 million km2, which is 93% of the land area of Australia (73% of the land area of the USA).

Surplus diesel produced is 1 trillion litres per annum.

Australia's jet fuel consumption is 2.8 million metric tonnes per annum, so land required is about 70,000 km2 - plenty of land cleared already in Queensland (due to reversal of environment friendly regulations) and is generally semi-arid so OK for the crop.

Of note is that the ICAO predicts that on present trends consumption to rise to 700 million metric tonnes by 20050 (even on an optimistic scenario for fuel efficiency), which would need 21 million km2.

If the data is right - this is just not viable
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Bob Wallace on January 31, 2018, 06:08:56 PM
Mustard seed can be grown in between crops of wheat.  It would thrive off the residual fertilizer, need no water, protect the land from erosion, and provide additional revenue for the farmer.

In 2016 the US used about 50 million acres for wheat production.  That's about 200,000 km2.   

We'd need to look at other places where an oil crop might be grown when the land would otherwise be fallow.

I'm not saying that we could do all the flying we do now on biofuel but when one sets out to prove something can't happen then they often fail to consider the possible ways it might.

People who solve problems tend to not build a case for "Won't work" as their first step.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: numerobis on January 31, 2018, 06:54:57 PM
The energy demands are quite large already, and expected to grow a lot as Asia and Africa get richer and increasingly become jet-setters like Americans and Europeans already are. We can't just grow mustard seed oil and jatropha on fallow fields or roadsides -- something else has to give.

That something else could be synthetic fuel from marine or atmospheric CO2 (whatever's easier to collect). It could be a reduction in aviation demand by switching to ground transport (EVs, high-speed rail, hyperloop, sailboats -- whatever). It could be improved efficiency. It could be improved agriculture practices that allow growing fuel and food on the same amount of land where we currently only grow food. Or really, all of the above.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: gerontocrat on January 31, 2018, 07:15:51 PM
MUSTARD SEED BIOFUEL FOR JETS

Australia is a big place 7.692 million km², and a lot of it is arid or semi-arid.

To repeat, Australia's jet fuel consumption is 2.8 million metric tonnes per annum, so land required is about 70,000 km2 - plenty of land cleared already in Queensland (due to reversal of environment friendly regulations) and is generally semi-arid so OK for the crop.

Therefore may well be a viable option for Australia.

I just get fed up when these things are pushed forward as a silver bullet to fix the whole damn problem. Defiance of the most cursory examination of the data plus total avoidance of any side-effects, (which oftimes demonstrate that the cure can be worse than the disease) is not a good basis for project implementation.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: sidd on January 31, 2018, 08:32:58 PM
"Mustard seed can be grown in between crops of wheat.  It would thrive off the residual fertilizer, need no water, protect the land from erosion, and provide additional revenue for the farmer."

I have grown another Brassica (canola) for oil. Broadcast seed into standing soy crop at least 2 or 3 weeks before the first frost. You can drive a combine over the seedlings without much harm to harvest the soy. The canola gets to the four leaf stage before the ground ices over. The in spring they jump out before the weeds do, so you might get away without having to use roundup ready canola. Harvest about June.

But they will need fertilizer (thats why soy first, reduces total fertilizer demand for the two crops.) And water. I am fortunate that i dont usually need to irrigate, enuf precipitation.

sidd
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on February 02, 2018, 01:21:56 AM
Transportation innovations are increasingly thinking outside the two-dimensional surface road limits.  Elon Musk prefers going underground, to avoid the worry about a flying car landing on your head. ;)  But electric, automated aviation options are becoming more and more feasible.

“People waste billions of hours sitting on roads worldwide each year. We envision a future where commuting by eVTOL is a safer, faster, and cost-competitive alternative to ground transportation.”

All-electric vertical take-off and landing aircraft startup secures $100 million in funding
https://electrek.co/2018/02/01/all-electric-vertical-take-off-and-landing-aircraft-startup-joby-aviation/
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on March 13, 2018, 08:40:51 PM
I worry it’s too easy for someone on the ground to be hit by one of those 13 propellers....

Cora is an electric ‘sky Uber drone’ from Google’s Larry Page and Sebastian Thrun, 2021 New Zealand launch plan
https://electrek.co/2018/03/13/kitty-hawk-cora-new-zealand/
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: numerobis on March 14, 2018, 02:34:32 AM
I'm interested but skeptical about all these flying car proposals. They all are basically personal helicopters; helicopters are bloody expensive in maintenance.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: ghoti on March 14, 2018, 03:00:09 AM
I'm interested but skeptical about all these flying car proposals. They all are basically personal helicopters; helicopters are bloody expensive in maintenance.
Those aren't multi-motor electric so totally different maintenance regime.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on March 15, 2018, 01:41:29 AM
I'm interested but skeptical about all these flying car proposals. They all are basically personal helicopters; helicopters are bloody expensive in maintenance.

I agree conventional helicopters have expensive maintenance!

But these new designs have short propellers, rather than long rotors.  No tail rotors.  And electric motors rather than ICE/turbine engines, and so have orders of magnitude fewer parts to break, and much less required maintenance.

I don’t see big fleets of them either, at this stage.  But this is just the beginning, so it will be interesting to see whether the autonomous air-taxi model becomes a thing over the next decade.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: sesyf on March 22, 2018, 06:13:26 PM
Well, I have no idea if these flying cars / helicopters will work - but ages ago I read somewhere that a helicopter needs eight times the fuel as a similar size aeroplane for the same travel. And as it seems that we do not have good enough batteries for cars then these electric helicopters are a waste of resources and will be available only for the more well-to-do...
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on April 09, 2018, 04:00:25 PM
More related to Space than Aviation — though the two are starting to merge — but I found the video documenting the manufacture of a carbon-fiber tank mesmerizing. (YMMV ;D )

The SpaceX BFR will be 30 feet in diameter and 350 feet (106m) long!

SpaceX Mars rocket tooling dwarfs Tesla Model 3 in new Elon Musk teaser
https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-mars-rocket-hardware-dwarfs-tesla-model-3-in-new-elon-musk-teaser/
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on April 10, 2018, 02:48:55 AM
Update: BFR work appears to be well underway!

SpaceX’s BFR factory abuzz with work activity and giant rocket tooling
https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-bfr-factory-rocket-tooling-site-activity/

Again:  the reason this is most immediately relevant to the Forum is that the BFR spaceship has the potential to provide intercontinental transportation without using fossil fuels, replacing some long distance jet aircraft flights.  The rockets will use oxygen and methane, which can be sourced from atmospheric carbon dioxide via the Sabatier reaction.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: TerryM on April 10, 2018, 03:02:20 AM
Update: BFR work appears to be well underway!

SpaceX’s BFR factory abuzz with work activity and giant rocket tooling
https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-bfr-factory-rocket-tooling-site-activity/ (https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-bfr-factory-rocket-tooling-site-activity/)

Again:  the reason this is most immediately relevant to the Forum is that the BFR spaceship has the potential to provide intercontinental transportation without using fossil fuels, replacing some long distance jet aircraft flights.  The rockets will use oxygen and methane, which can be sourced from atmospheric carbon dioxide via the Sabatier reaction.
But in a real world would it be?
Methane, natural gas, CH4, by whatever name has long been considered a fossil fuel.
Terry
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on April 10, 2018, 06:03:04 PM
Update: BFR work appears to be well underway!

SpaceX’s BFR factory abuzz with work activity and giant rocket tooling
https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-bfr-factory-rocket-tooling-site-activity/ (https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-bfr-factory-rocket-tooling-site-activity/)

Again:  the reason this is most immediately relevant to the Forum is that the BFR spaceship has the potential to provide intercontinental transportation without using fossil fuels, replacing some long distance jet aircraft flights.  The rockets will use oxygen and methane, which can be sourced from atmospheric carbon dioxide via the Sabatier reaction.
But in a real world would it be?
Methane, natural gas, CH4, by whatever name has long been considered a fossil fuel.
Terry

My reasoning:
1)  This is an Elon Musk project, and transitioning to sustainable transport is one of his life-long goals.  He thinks our use of fossil fuels is “the dumbest experiment ever.”
2) The main reason for making the BFR is to get to Mars — and back.  To get back to earth, fuel needs to be made on Mars.  The Martian atmosphere is thin, but is mostly carbon dioxide.  Musk has said that, using the Sabatier Reaction, it will be feasible to make enough methane and oxygen from CO2 to fuel the way home.
3) The Boring Company tunnels are another process that will be needed on Mars.  (And electric cars, for that matter. ;) )  Musk is no doubt testing out all his new technology with Mars in mind.  So I think it is reasonable to expect that he will minimize petroleum extracts and maximize recycling carbon that is already in the atmosphere on earth, as quickly as possible.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on April 10, 2018, 06:06:56 PM
Norway plans to buy electric planes, mimicking green car success
Quote
OSLO, March 22 (Reuters) - Norway said on Thursday it wants to buy electric passenger planes in the coming years to help slow climate change, building on its success with big tax breaks that have made it the world leader in electric car sales.

State firm Avinor, which runs 45 airports in Norway, said the commitment to battery-powered aircraft could encourage development of electric and hybrid technologies by companies such as Airbus or Boeing.

"In my mind, there's no doubt that by 2040 Norway will be operating totally electric" on short-haul flights, Dag Falk-Pedersen, head of Avinor, told reporters at an aviation conference in Oslo.

Among airlines, "Airbus told us they need a customer and they need a market - and we can offer them both," he said. "Of course they need a bigger market and more customers. But someone has to start." ...
http://news.trust.org/item/20180322175205-dh5xo
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Ken Feldman on April 10, 2018, 07:42:30 PM
Battery powered commuter planes could be operational on regional air routes up to 650 miles by 2021.  Story here: https://www.fastcompany.com/40549048/world-changing-ideas-transportation-eviation-alice-commuter (https://www.fastcompany.com/40549048/world-changing-ideas-transportation-eviation-alice-commuter)

(https://images.fastcompany.net/image/upload/w_937,ar_16:9,c_fill,g_auto,f_auto,q_auto,fl_lossy/wp-cms/uploads/2018/04/p-1-world-changing-ideas-transportation-eviation.jpg)

Quote
In five years, if you want to take a trip from San Francisco to San Diego, it may be possible to do it on a small electric plane–and with a ticket that costs less than driving or taking the train. The Israel-based startup Eviation, which is building a new all-electric, nine-seat airplane, called the Alice Commuter expects to begin making its first commercial flights in 2021 and scale up to hundreds of routes across the U.S. over the next few years.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: TerryM on April 10, 2018, 11:34:29 PM
Battery powered commuter planes could be operational on regional air routes up to 650 miles by 2021.  Story here: https://www.fastcompany.com/40549048/world-changing-ideas-transportation-eviation-alice-commuter (https://www.fastcompany.com/40549048/world-changing-ideas-transportation-eviation-alice-commuter)

(https://images.fastcompany.net/image/upload/w_937,ar_16:9,c_fill,g_auto,f_auto,q_auto,fl_lossy/wp-cms/uploads/2018/04/p-1-world-changing-ideas-transportation-eviation.jpg)

Quote
In five years, if you want to take a trip from San Francisco to San Diego, it may be possible to do it on a small electric plane–and with a ticket that costs less than driving or taking the train. The Israel-based startup Eviation, which is building a new all-electric, nine-seat airplane, called the Alice Commuter expects to begin making its first commercial flights in 2021 and scale up to hundreds of routes across the U.S. over the next few years.


They should rename the company Liberty Air and specialize on flights between US naval bases. 8)
Terry
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on April 10, 2018, 11:35:33 PM
...
Quote
In five years, if you want to take a trip from San Francisco to San Diego, it may be possible to do it on a small electric plane–and with a ticket that costs less than driving or taking the train. The Israel-based startup Eviation, which is building a new all-electric, nine-seat airplane, called the Alice Commuter expects to begin making its first commercial flights in 2021 and scale up to hundreds of routes across the U.S. over the next few years.

Part of the cost savings could come from being able to use smaller, local airports instead of LAX and SFO. It could provide a boost to the local economies, and provide passengers with an alternative to dealing with those larger airports.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: numerobis on April 10, 2018, 11:42:52 PM
Airlines use hub-and-spoke to save money over point-to-point connections, despite the higher fuel costs. It lets them use bigger planes, which are cheaper in capital, staff, and landing slots. Reducing fuel cost wouldn’t push towards point-to-point, but away.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: oren on April 11, 2018, 03:08:02 AM
Clearly the first business case should not be replacing the train or regular commercial flights, at least with current limitations, and considering air-crew and other costs. It should be replacing flights of very small short-haul airplanes.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on April 12, 2018, 09:56:32 PM
SpaceX’s president and COO Gwynne Shotwell says we’ll be able to take a rocket to Shanghai — or Mars — ‘within a decade’
Halfway across the globe in about half an hour.
Quote
Last year, SpaceX CEO Elon Musk got a lot of attention for a video proposing city-to-city travel — on Earth — using a rocket that’s designed for outer space.

Today, speaking at the TED Conference in Vancouver, SpaceX president and chief operating officer Gwynne Shotwell reiterated the company’s plans, pledging that the technology will be ready and operational “within a decade, for sure.”

“It’s definitely going to happen,” she said, interviewed onstage by TED’s Chris Anderson. The company also hopes to fly to Mars by then.

A lot can (and probably will) change in a decade. But the idea is that a very large rocket, capable of carrying about 100 people, could fly like an aircraft and do point-to-point travel on Earth much faster than a plane — halfway across the globe in about 30 to 40 minutes, Shotwell said, landing on a pad five to 10 kilometers outside of a city center.

Shotwell estimated the ticket cost would be somewhere between economy and business class on a plane — so, likely in the thousands of dollars for transoceanic travel. “But you do it in an hour.”

“I’m personally invested in this one,” she said, “because I travel a lot, and I do not love to travel. And I would love to get to see my customers in Riyadh, leave in the morning and be back in time to make dinner.”

How could travel by rocket cost so little? Shotwell said the efficiency would come from being fast enough to be able to operate a route a dozen or so times a day, whereas a long-haul airplane often only does one flight per day.

(Shotwell shared no details on seat design, in-flight amenities or how many barf bags we’ll need per person.)
https://www.recode.net/2018/4/11/17227036/flight-spacex-gwynne-shotwell-space-ted-conference-interview

And this:
SpaceX’s valuation is expected to climb to $24 billion
At the new mark, SpaceX would be the third-highest-valued private company in the United States.
https://www.recode.net/2018/4/12/17229542/spacex-rocket-space-valuation-elon-musk-fundraising
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: TerryM on April 12, 2018, 10:02:38 PM
SpaceX’s president and COO Gwynne Shotwell says we’ll be able to take a rocket to Shanghai — or Mars — ‘within a decade’


Is this a Tesla Decade, or ten years?
Terry ;)
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on April 12, 2018, 10:08:47 PM
SpaceX’s president and COO Gwynne Shotwell says we’ll be able to take a rocket to Shanghai — or Mars — ‘within a decade’


Is this a Tesla Decade, or ten years?
Terry ;)

Apparently during the TED talk they do discuss “Elon Time.” ;D

Quote
Fundamental risk reduction for humanity. Gwynne Shotwell has one of the most amazing jobs on the planet — she was employee #7 at SpaceX and is now the company’s president. In conversation with TED curator Chris Anderson, Shotwell discusses what inspired her to pursue a career in engineering, how she drove SpaceX’s partnership with NASA, the company’s race to be the next company to put people into orbit and what it’s like to work with Elon Musk — including the concept of “Elon time.” After discussing SpaceX’s design process, including their reusable rockets (something no national space program has been able to achieve) as well as a semi-secretive project to put a constellation of satellites into low-Earth orbit to cover the planet in internet (at an estimated cost of $10 billion), Shotwell took some time to dream a little. She detailed SpaceX’s next big project: the BFR, or Big Falcon Rocket — which will be about two-and-a-half times the size of Falcon Heavy, the giant rocket they flew earlier this year (the one that delivered a Tesla roadster to space). BFR is what you need to take humanity to Mars, for sure — but it has a “residual capability,” as Gywnne puts it: rocket travel here on Earth. The plan is to fly BFR like an aircraft, doing point-to-point travel, taking off from New York City or Vancouver and flying halfway across the globe in roughly 40 minutes. Anderson says incredulously: “This is never going to happen!” and Gwynne shoots back:  “Oh no, it’s definitely going to happen” — and within a decade. The timeframe for landing humans on Mars looks about the same, she says, since both projects are built on the same technology. And to the question of why, with all the problems here on earth, SpaceX has their eyes on the stars, Shotwell has a vision: “This is the first step to us moving to other solar systems and potentially other galaxies,” she says. “This is the only time I out-vision Elon: I want to meet people, or whatever they call themselves, in another solar system.”
https://blog.ted.com/nerdish-delight-notes-from-session-3-of-ted2018/
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on May 02, 2018, 05:30:13 PM
Now certified in the U.S.:

First all-electric trainer plane gets airworthiness certification from the FAA in the US
Quote
It follows certification in Australia and Canada. Now U.S. flight schools will be able to operate the aircraft.

The company says that the plane can stay in the air for an hour, with an extra 30 minutes in reserve.

Ivo Boscarol, CEO of Pipistrel, says:

“With the ever growing cost of fuel it is time to rethink pilot training. Our solution is the first practical all-electric trainer! Technologies developed specially for this aircraft cut the cost of ab-initio pilot training by as much as 70%, making flying more affordable than ever before. Being able to conduct training on smaller airfields closer to towns with zero C02 emissions and minimum noise is also a game changer! Alpha Electro meets microlight and ASTM LSA criteria, as well as standards for electric propulsion. Alpha Electro is our 5th electric aircraft project and the second to result as a commercial product.”

They claim an extremely low cost of operation (~$3 per flight at $0.15 per kWh) and the battery pack can be charged fairly quickly thanks to its small size. It can also be swapped for rapid turnaround. The batteries in this plane are expected to be viable for roughly 1000 flying hours. ...
https://electrek.co/2018/04/27/all-electric-trainer-plane-airworthiness-certification-faa-us/
Article includes a video.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on May 13, 2018, 08:22:34 PM
A radical way to cut emissions – ration everyone’s flights
Quote
Everyone could be given an air mile allowance – say enough for one long-haul return flight a year, or three short-haul flights, so people with families on the other side of the world could see them once a year. If you don’t want to use your allowance, you could sell it off in a government-regulated online marketplace. If you’re keen to do a holiday a month, you’ll have to buy your allowance from someone else.

This would be far preferable to increasing tax on airline tickets. It would be redistributive: everyone gets a certain number of air miles, but if you’d rather get the thousands of pounds you could command for them on the online marketplace, you’re free to sell them. Same if you’re just not that bothered about going abroad. But if you want to go over your allowance, it will be at a cost. ...
https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/may/09/cut-emissions-flights-air-travel-flying
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: magnamentis on May 13, 2018, 10:50:19 PM
A radical way to cut emissions – ration everyone’s flights
Quote
Everyone could be given an air mile allowance – say enough for one long-haul return flight a year, or three short-haul flights, so people with families on the other side of the world could see them once a year. If you don’t want to use your allowance, you could sell it off in a government-regulated online marketplace. If you’re keen to do a holiday a month, you’ll have to buy your allowance from someone else.

This would be far preferable to increasing tax on airline tickets. It would be redistributive: everyone gets a certain number of air miles, but if you’d rather get the thousands of pounds you could command for them on the online marketplace, you’re free to sell them. Same if you’re just not that bothered about going abroad. But if you want to go over your allowance, it will be at a cost. ...
https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/may/09/cut-emissions-flights-air-travel-flying

that's a great approach / idea. sounds extreme first to many but i believe that air-travel could be cut down to a third without a negative impact on general business ( except airline business of course )

this is blowing the same horn like reducing speed of cargo vessels combines with wind power and other supporting secondary power supplies. in one word, the world has to learn efficiency not only in making money and producing new things, but as well in spending money and keeping existing products functioning ( short produckt live cycles / planned obsolescence etc. are horrible resource and power hogs IMO )

just one of millions of examples. there is no good reason to replace a samsung S8 with a Samsung S9 smartphone except bragging rights which is indeed fueling so many markets and is one of the worst reasons to buy something. Nothing against nice things but then they should at least make minimum sense. ( i talk about replacement, nothing against nice new stuff when needed )

i for one started to repair my stuff as long as they work like before once repaired and don't look a chowed by a cow.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on May 16, 2018, 01:42:08 PM
SpaceX COO Gwynne Shotwell’s TED talk is up.

BFR flights half way around the world in less than an hour, for less than a business class airline ticket.  Because the BFR can make many of those trips a day, whereas an airliner can only make one.
Also discussed:  “Elon time.”  :D  The SpaceX internet satellite constellation, and addressing the problem of space debris.

https://www.ted.com/talks/gwynne_shotwell_spacex_s_plan_to_fly_you_across_the_globe_in_30_minutes

Elon Musk tweeted a footnote:
“Boring Company Hyperloop will take you from city center under ground & ocean to spaceport in 10 to 15 mins”
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/996691566851801088

Because sealing tunnels against the water table requires them to be built to withstand 5 or 6 atmospheres, but a vacuum only requires the tunnel to withstand 1 atmosphere.  From 2017 (and somewhat outdated already):
https://www.ted.com/talks/elon_musk_the_future_we_re_building_and_boring

Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Bob Wallace on May 16, 2018, 04:30:34 PM
Quote
sealing tunnels against the water table requires them to be built to withstand 5 or 6 atmospheres, but a vacuum only requires the tunnel to withstand 1 atmosphere

Whoa, doggie!

If so, the only issue now is cost.  If tunnels can operate at a near vacuum putting the Hyperloop underground solves multiple problems.

Thermal expansion.  None.

Rupture of tube due to 'bad actor', vehicle crashing into pillar, airplane crashing into elevated tube.

Land acquisition for route.

Opposition for aesthetic reasons.

And Elon has said that riding the slow speed (150 MPH) rapid subway version will cost less than riding the city bus.   Faster and cheaper than flying?  Bye, planes.

I'm copying this over to the Hyperloop thread which is where the discussion probably belongs.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on May 21, 2018, 09:55:54 PM
Zunum Aero strikes deal with JetSuite — a partner of JetBlue Airways — for debut of hybrid electric airplanes in 2022
Quote
Zunum Aero is working on a hybrid-electric aircraft propulsion system that’s expected to transition to all-electric once battery technology makes it possible. The system will be optimized to fly distances of up to 1,000 miles and make use of more than 5,000 underutilized regional airports in the U.S. ...
https://www.geekwire.com/2018/zunum-aero-strikes-deal-jetsuite-debut-hybrid-electric-airplanes/
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on May 22, 2018, 05:26:53 PM
May soon need to change this thread to “Aviation and Space,” as off-planet activities increasingly affect life here on earth.

How Elon Musk's rocket company SpaceX beat Boeing to become a $28 billion aerospace juggernaut
Quote
SpaceX is the No. 1 company on the 2018 CNBC Disruptor 50 list, announced Tuesday.

... In 2019, Musk believes SpaceX will be completing "short trips" for its Mars rocket system, while also beginning to roll out its constellation of 4,425 satellites. It is in the next stage of Musk's master plan to put 1 million people on the Red Planet to ensure the survival of the human race in the event of a world war or catastrophe on Earth.
...
SpaceX began 2018 the way it ended 2017: Batting a thousand. Called by some as "the dawn of the entrepreneurial space age," last year saw SpaceX complete 18 rocket launches successfully, including when it became the first in history to launch and land two rockets within 48 hours. The space company also made NASA history, becoming the first to launch a supply mission to the International Space Station on a reused rocket. ...
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/22/spacex-leading-the-space-race-to-launch-humans-to-mars.html
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: numerobis on May 22, 2018, 06:32:21 PM
Space isn’t yet relevant for energy use worldwide.

Some rockets run off hydrogen, which could be sourced from water; but most run off kerosene which will require fixing.

Given Musk’s Mars fixation, he’s working on engines that burn methanol, which not coincidentally can easily be synthesized from low-partial-pressure carbon dioxide and water (it just takes lots of electricity).
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: TerryM on May 22, 2018, 07:27:03 PM
SpaceX will be delivering the new GRACE-FO's in a few hours. An hour after that my pulse rate should be back to normal.


The DoD scrubbed it's GPS launch yesterday after deciding it needed more time to study and approve the SpaceX rocket that was supposed to make that launch. This news hasn't eased my nerves. I'm aware that it's the block 5 that's being questioned, not the block 4 that's launching the GRACE's, but the block 5 is billed as a safer, stronger replacement for block 4.
If block 4 needs a safer stronger replacement then why are they entrusting it to ferry these irreplaceable satellites into orbit?


Sorry, I'll be OK by 4:30 EDT ???
Terry
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Bob Wallace on May 22, 2018, 07:33:55 PM
Space isn’t yet relevant for energy use worldwide.

Some rockets run off hydrogen, which could be sourced from water; but most run off kerosene which will require fixing.

Given Musk’s Mars fixation, he’s working on engines that burn methanol, which not coincidentally can easily be synthesized from low-partial-pressure carbon dioxide and water (it just takes lots of electricity).

Does anyone have some idea of the infrastructure cost for generating hydrogen from water?   Might it be cheap enough to allow H2 plants to run as dispatchable loads?  If so, then the cost of electricity is less of an issue.

There's an interesting development in which an organism has been found that can live in a hydrogen rich environment and 'fart' methane.  That looks like it might be a low cost second stage process.  I don't know how the methane would be sorted out.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: ghoti on May 22, 2018, 10:32:49 PM
Terry good news! You can relax now knowing GRACE-FO has been delivered safely to orbit. I'm am excited about once again getting the gravity data again. Pity it will take 6 months or so to get everything up and running and calibrated.

The GRACE data has been a huge tool for understanding climate change and sea level rise.

confirmation of success:
https://twitter.com/ChrisG_NSF/status/999025317720285186
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: TerryM on May 22, 2018, 11:33:47 PM
Thanks ghoti
I've been watching on another channel & I'm delighted that everything went without a hitch.
I probably worried just a bit more than I should have.
Can't wait for the data to begin flowing again!
Terry
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on June 08, 2018, 08:26:07 PM
Hmm, why am I thinking of Statler and Waldorf here?

Heathrow Airport: Cabinet approves new runway plan
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-44357580 (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-44357580)

One option to building additional runways at crowded city airports is to provide fast transportation to/from other nearby, less used airports....

https://twitter.com/FutureTravelX/status/1004313360421310464
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Bob Wallace on June 08, 2018, 08:56:01 PM
Hmm, why am I thinking of Statler and Waldorf here?

Heathrow Airport: Cabinet approves new runway plan
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-44357580 (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-44357580)

One option to building additional runways at crowded city airports is to provide fast transportation to/from other nearby, less used airports....

https://twitter.com/FutureTravelX/status/1004313360421310464

Fast transportation to less used airports = Loop.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: josh-j on June 09, 2018, 11:32:58 PM
One option to building additional runways at crowded city airports is to provide fast transportation to/from other nearby, less used airports....

https://twitter.com/FutureTravelX/status/1004313360421310464

Another option is to fly less (particularly frequent fliers), and build less. That seems more sensible than building new infrastructure in order to encourage more aviation growth incompatible even with existing climate goals.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Bob Wallace on June 09, 2018, 11:55:37 PM
Sensible is a hard sell. 
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Bob Wallace on June 10, 2018, 06:46:13 PM
Quote
Another option is to fly less (particularly frequent fliers), and build less.

How does one get past the "Gosh, it would be great if..." phase and actually reduce air travel? 

How about building less?

Got solution?
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sebastian Jones on June 11, 2018, 11:49:24 PM

How does one get past the "Gosh, it would be great if..." phase and actually reduce air travel? 

How about building less?

Got solution?

I sure do have a solution. Let's raise the cost of flying, preferably through carbon pricing. Similarly, as the price of cement and bitumen rises with carbon taxation, fewer runways will be built.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Bob Wallace on June 11, 2018, 11:56:15 PM
Cool.

Now tell us how we get a federal price on carbon in the US.

I love solutions.  Especially those that stand some chance of working....
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Tor Bejnar on June 12, 2018, 02:15:19 AM
... Now tell us how we get a federal price on carbon in the US.
I love solutions.  Especially those that stand some chance of working....
In the good ol' U.S. of A., I think this leads to the litigation thread (I mean Legal Approach to Climate Change Resolutions (https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,1207.msg49060.html#msg49060))
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Bob Wallace on June 12, 2018, 03:53:19 AM
It's not only the good ol' USA.  Solar has met governmental restrictions in Spain where coal basically shut down any new solar, even had people taking panels off their roofs, for a couple of days.  The coal industry has carried out a fair amount of opposition in Germany and Australia.  And the UK is will to spend multiple times more for nuclear than to install wind and solar.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sebastian Jones on June 12, 2018, 06:17:47 AM
Cool.

Now tell us how we get a federal price on carbon in the US.

I love solutions.  Especially those that stand some chance of working....
But in California you do have a price on carbon- it is a cap and trade system instead of a carbon tax.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Bob Wallace on June 12, 2018, 06:48:45 AM
California isn't the entire country. 

Put a big price on carbon in CA and we could see planes fueling up in Arizona and then flying to LA to board passengers.
--

All that's a bit tongue in cheek.  A worldwide or nationwide carbon tax would help drive things faster but I don't see much of a chance of large scale carbon taxes.  At least until climate pain gets a lot worse.

Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on June 14, 2018, 05:27:04 PM
 ;D :o 8) ::)  Outlandish.  But a decade or two ago, so were self-driving cars. 

Boeing Asked for Quiet Jetpacks and Got a Bunch of Air Motorcycles
Want to strap on a backpack and fly? It’s going to be very loud.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-06-14/boeing-asked-for-quiet-jetpacks-and-got-a-bunch-of-air-motorcycles
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: numerobis on June 15, 2018, 02:37:27 AM
California isn't the entire country. 

Put a big price on carbon in CA and we could see planes fueling up in Arizona and then flying to LA to board passengers.
--

All that's a bit tongue in cheek.  A worldwide or nationwide carbon tax would help drive things faster but I don't see much of a chance of large scale carbon taxes.  At least until climate pain gets a lot worse.

Air transport of fuel is more than 100x the cost by pipeline. You can’t cheaply fly in your fuel.

Instead it would drive Californians to take a train (or a self-driving electric car) to Nevada and fly from there, particularly for crossing the Pacific.

That would mean less pollution in California. It could get votes.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sebastian Jones on June 15, 2018, 05:27:32 PM
California isn't the entire country. 

Put a big price on carbon in CA and we could see planes fueling up in Arizona and then flying to LA to board passengers.
--

All that's a bit tongue in cheek.  A worldwide or nationwide carbon tax would help drive things faster but I don't see much of a chance of large scale carbon taxes.  At least until climate pain gets a lot worse.


California may not be the entire country, however were it to be considered a single nation it would rank as a member of the G8/9 (depending on if Russia is re-instated). Its economy is larger than Canada's. California matters.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Bob Wallace on June 15, 2018, 06:15:23 PM

Your solution to decreasing carbon emissions from flying -

Quote
I sure do have a solution. Let's raise the cost of flying, preferably through carbon pricing. Similarly, as the price of cement and bitumen rises with carbon taxation, fewer runways will be built.

I have yet to hear we create a US wide and a global price on carbon that will decrease flying.

Put a large enough price on carbon in CA and airlines will shift their practices to avoid those costs.  For example, transoceanic flights might no longer depart from CA.  Passengers might be shuttled to a nearby state or country with no carbon price and the do the long flight from there.

Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on June 17, 2018, 10:07:30 PM
”Superjumbo sales have weakened as carriers opt for twin-engine wide-bodies that burn less fuel. Were they resold to another operator, the planes might be expected to fly for at least another decade.”

Two Unwanted A380s Are Moving Closer to the Scrapheap
Unwanted superjumbos set to be taken apart for components
British Airways and others decided not to buy double-deckers
https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2018-06-05/first-a380s-poised-for-scrapheap-as-second-hand-interest-fades
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: numerobis on June 18, 2018, 12:31:35 AM
Not just the A380, but all 4-engine aircraft are doomed. Turbines are more efficient the larger they are; and engineering is now good enough to safely fly across the ocean on a single engine if one fails.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on June 19, 2018, 05:24:11 PM
Pipistrel Alpha Electro

“Norway’s first electric flight carried out today! Pilot: ⁦Avinor ⁩ CEO Dag Falk-Petersen. Passenger: Minister of Transport Ketil Solvik-Olsen. ...”
https://mobile.twitter.com/olavml/status/1008750859772219393
Image below.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on June 21, 2018, 09:04:36 PM
Next Generation SolarStratos Plane, carries one or two pilots.

This 32kW plane will fly twice as high as commercial jets on SunPower
Quote
Wingspan: 24.8 meters – about 81 feet, or the length of two standard city buses
Weight: 450 kilograms – about as heavy as a grand piano; to make SolarStratos its lightest, the cabin will not be pressurized, requiring pilots to wear astronaut suits that are pressurized by solar energy.
Engine: 32-kilowatt electrical engine, about one-third the size of what would power an electric vehicle
Energy: 22 square meters of SunPower Maxeon solar cells, each reaching 22 to 24 percent efficiency
Batteries: One 20-kilowatt lithium ion battery
Autonomy: Self-generates electricity with solar to power the plane for more than 12 hours
https://electrek.co/2018/06/20/this-32kw-plane-will-fly-twice-as-high-as-commercial-jets-on-sunpower/


Looks like the successor to Solar Impulse 2, the 2.3 tonnes (5,100 lb, little more than an average SUV), 71.9 m (236 ft) wingspan, solar-powered plane that flew around the world in 2015/2016, staying aloft for days at a time.  Its service ceiling was 8,500 m (27,900 ft) with a maximum altitude of 12,000 metres (39,000 ft).  It was unpressurized and could carry only one pilot.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on July 03, 2018, 06:10:30 PM
Tweeted June 30, 2018. 

“Flightradar24 on Twitter: "Yesterday was the busiest day of the year in the skies so far and our busiest day ever. 202,157 flights tracked! The first time we've tracked more than 200,000 flights in a single day....”
https://mobile.twitter.com/flightradar24/status/1013088775973556224
Image below; GIF at the link.

Not the statistic we would like to see....  However, many of the Twitter replies mention carbon, CO2, and climate change, so the realization of the problem is spreading.

Note that FlightRadar24 can only track flights with a certain type of transponder, and which are within range of receivers, so not every flight was recorded.  Replies to the tweet have links explaining how thier system works and why some flights “disappear” from the GIF.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on July 11, 2018, 03:58:39 PM
wut?

Flying Trains Could Be Coming Your Way
- French firm has designed an airplane with removable wings
- It’s presenting plane to Boeing, Asia to cut Europe dependence
Quote
It sounds like something Q, the tech guy in James Bond movies, would create: A plane that lands on a runway, shrugs its wings off, turns into a train and rolls on to rails to drop you off at your local station.

That’s what a French entrepreneur, who’s made millions by connecting engineers with industrial groups, is pitching to Boeing Co. and others. "Link & Fly" is Akka Technologies’s new flagship aircraft design, with wings that come off to hasten turnover at airports and make boarding easier and closer to passengers’ homes. ...
https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2018-07-11/flying-trains-france-s-akka-technologies-makes-pitch-to-boeing
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: TerryM on July 11, 2018, 06:15:40 PM
wut?

Flying Trains Could Be Coming Your Way
- French firm has designed an airplane with removable wings
- It’s presenting plane to Boeing, Asia to cut Europe dependence
Quote
It sounds like something Q, the tech guy in James Bond movies, would create: A plane that lands on a runway, shrugs its wings off, turns into a train and rolls on to rails to drop you off at your local station.

That’s what a French entrepreneur, who’s made millions by connecting engineers with industrial groups, is pitching to Boeing Co. and others. "Link & Fly" is Akka Technologies’s new flagship aircraft design, with wings that come off to hasten turnover at airports and make boarding easier and closer to passengers’ homes. ...
https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2018-07-11/flying-trains-france-s-akka-technologies-makes-pitch-to-boeing (https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2018-07-11/flying-trains-france-s-akka-technologies-makes-pitch-to-boeing)


... - Then from the "train station" the individual seat sections break themselves out and in a driverless cab manner whisk each family safely home to their own robotic secured and maintained triple gated community.


In the near future those that can afford it will be able to experience world wide travel and adventure tourism without once requiring them to be in close proximity to those less economically or culturally fortunate.
Terry
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Tor Bejnar on July 11, 2018, 07:24:41 PM
And during their world tour they won't have to touch dirty soil or be tempted by foreign water (different from their favorite Fiji, Icelandic or French source).  And customs will be a breeze if they can show they never left their personal pod!
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on July 11, 2018, 08:34:16 PM
Seems a silly idea, but... loading an electric “bus” at a population center would prevent the emissions of individual vehicles driving to the airport.  Upon arrival at the ramp, all people and luggage would already be stowed, so there would be less delay — and they wouldn’t need a gate — meaning more airport operations per hour might be possible.  (Although, usually, runways and required separation of air traffic are the limiting factors.)  Could increase flights without building another terminal.

I assume the bus “tractor” is electric, and would be separated from the passenger pod and remain behind at the airport.  Then, as long as the bus doesn’t become detached from the wings during flight... there you go.  Maybe someday, when all-electric planes use swappable batteries, swapping an entire bus-like module like this might make sense.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on July 12, 2018, 10:14:55 PM
Silicon Valley startup unveils BlackFly, the latest entrant in race to field a flying car
Quote
A Silicon Valley startup called Opener is taking the wraps off a single-seat, all-electric flying vehicle known as BlackFly, which the company says will require no formal licensing in the U.S.

“The future of aviation begins today,” Alan Eustace, a former Google executive (and record-setting free-fall skyjumper) who is now a director at Opener, said in a news release. “The dream of flight, which was so difficult and expensive to obtain, will soon be within the reach of millions. Opener is putting the fun back into flying and opening up a new world of possibilities.”

Opener says a developmental version of the tandem-wing, eight-rotor craft has gone into the air more than 1,400 times, with the total distance flown exceeding 12,000 miles.

...Leng said Opener is aiming to put BlackFly on the market next year for the “price of an SUV.”

Opener said BlackFly is designed primarily to operate from small grassy areas and can travel distances of up to 25 miles at a speed of 62 mph, in accordance with U.S. regulatory restrictions. The batteries can be recharged in as little as 25 minutes.
https://www.geekwire.com/2018/silicon-valley-startup-unveils-blackfly-latest-entrant-race-field-flying-car/
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: sidd on August 27, 2018, 11:36:51 PM
Jatropha biodiesel fuel fuels commercial flight. Short hop, small steps.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/business/india-business/india-turns-sky-green-first-biofuel-flight-successfully-operated-by-spicejet/articleshow/65556824.cms

sidd
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on August 31, 2018, 09:12:00 PM
Bjørn Nyland takes a ride in the 100% electric Pipistrel plane.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vgdj9HpdzvI
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: magnamentis on August 31, 2018, 11:26:30 PM
Bjørn Nyland takes a ride in the 100% electric Pipistrel plane.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vgdj9HpdzvI

great stuff indeed, interesting to hear also how much of the typical noise pollution is prop-based and not engine based,  quite a bit of a surprise.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on September 01, 2018, 05:32:33 PM
Bjørn Nyland takes a ride in the 100% electric Pipistrel plane.


great stuff indeed, interesting to hear also how much of the typical noise pollution is prop-based and not engine based,  quite a bit of a surprise.

Yes, I would have guessed a light plane’s engine made at least half its noise — the cockpit certainly seems very quiet when your instructor pulls a surprise engine-out drill. :o ;D

But consider how noisy ‘ordinary fans’ are at high speed — even little fans.  And my electric lawn mower is loud enough to warrant noise-canceling earphones... when the blades are engaged.  Noise is the movement of air molecules.  And propellers and airframes do a lot of that!  :)
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sleepy on September 24, 2018, 08:42:26 AM
Malmö city employees have flown 137 laps around the world - to get to Stockholm...
Employees and politicians have made 10 354 flights to and from Stockholm in three years, equivalent to 137 laps around the globe.

The train between Malmö and Stockholm takes about 4 hours and 20 minutes, and realistically, the flight will save a maximum of 1 hour and 15 minutes. It's also much easier to work on trains. In practice, you will lose three possible hours of work per flight to and from Stockholm, compared with taking the train.

http://supermiljobloggen.se/dumheter/2018/09/malmo-stads-anstallda-har-flugit-137-varv-runt-jorden-bara-till-stockholm (http://supermiljobloggen.se/dumheter/2018/09/malmo-stads-anstallda-har-flugit-137-varv-runt-jorden-bara-till-stockholm)

I guess trains, work and emissions are equally boring to them?
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: rboyd on October 02, 2018, 06:08:36 AM
2036 Forecast Reveals Air Passengers Will Nearly Double to 7.8 Billion

https://www.iata.org/pressroom/pr/Pages/2017-10-24-01.aspx (https://www.iata.org/pressroom/pr/Pages/2017-10-24-01.aspx)

Airlines promised to do "offsetting" from 2020 onwards to keep net CO2 emissions stable, but such offsetting is very scam friendly and doesn't take into account the non-CO2 climate effects (that can be multiples of the CO2-only effect).

https://www.carbonbrief.org/explainer-challenge-tackling-aviations-non-co2-emissions (https://www.carbonbrief.org/explainer-challenge-tackling-aviations-non-co2-emissions)
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: magnamentis on October 03, 2018, 12:24:18 AM
2036 Forecast Reveals Air Passengers Will Nearly Double to 7.8 Billion

https://www.iata.org/pressroom/pr/Pages/2017-10-24-01.aspx (https://www.iata.org/pressroom/pr/Pages/2017-10-24-01.aspx)

Airlines promised to do "offsetting" from 2020 onwards to keep net CO2 emissions stable, but such offsetting is very scam friendly and doesn't take into account the non-CO2 climate effects (that can be multiples of the CO2-only effect).

https://www.carbonbrief.org/explainer-challenge-tackling-aviations-non-co2-emissions (https://www.carbonbrief.org/explainer-challenge-tackling-aviations-non-co2-emissions)

no capacities for that, not even at max airplane factory output and simultaneous major airport capacity increase.

won't happen

let's talk in 18 years though while chance is that i won't be around by then LOL
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: rboyd on October 04, 2018, 10:57:36 PM
no capacities for that, not even at max airplane factory output and simultaneous major airport capacity increase. won't happen let's talk in 18 years though while chance is that i won't be around by then LOL

That's only a 3.6% annualized rate of growth, so not that impossible to reach. Even the fact that IATA (the representative of the world's airlines) can make such a prediction and not cause consternation due to the climate change impact says so much for the surreal world that we live in.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sleepy on October 07, 2018, 12:21:14 PM
Since the emissions doesn't stay here...
https://campaigns.350.org/petitions/stop-the-expansion-of-arlanda-airport (https://campaigns.350.org/petitions/stop-the-expansion-of-arlanda-airport)
Quote
Stop the expansion of Arlanda airport!

The aviation industry have failed to present convincing startegies for sustainable flying. Still the government let the state-owned airport company Swedavia expand Arlanda Airport with 14 new gates and rebuildings to make room for more travellers. This would mean more frequent flight departures which results in heavier carbon emissions. With our petition we show that airport expansions are not supported by the public and that the expansion of Arlanda Airport must me stopped.

Aviation must be reduced:
The climate threat is acute. Today, the aviation is dependent on fossil fuels, and the technical solutions to make the airplane fossil-free are at best case far ahead in time. We do not have time to wait; therefore, flying must be drastically reduced.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sleepy on October 24, 2018, 06:33:31 AM
Swedish recommendations on national television; how to fly green.
Video at the link, hopefully you don't understand Swedish and hopefully you won't try to translate any of this. Be warned if you do try. This is simply miserable.

https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/sa-reser-du-miljovanligt (https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/sa-reser-du-miljovanligt)

Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on October 30, 2018, 02:56:21 PM
'Electric flying is becoming a reality', says easyJet CEO as they plan to test 9-seater electric plane next year
https://electrek.co/2018/10/29/electric-flying-is-becoming-a-reality-says-easyjet-ceo-electric-plane/
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: DrTskoul on October 30, 2018, 11:55:52 PM
'Electric flying is becoming a reality', says easyJet CEO as they plan to test 9-seater electric plane next year
https://electrek.co/2018/10/29/electric-flying-is-becoming-a-reality-says-easyjet-ceo-electric-plane/

It will take a lot of 9 seaters.....
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sleepy on October 31, 2018, 08:06:20 AM
Andreas Schäfer on electric aircrafts at Chalmers in Gothenburg, from September (in English):
https://urskola.se/Produkter/208665-UR-Samtiden-Elfordon-i-dag-och-i-morgon-Elflyg-mojligheter-och-utmaningar (https://urskola.se/Produkter/208665-UR-Samtiden-Elfordon-i-dag-och-i-morgon-Elflyg-mojligheter-och-utmaningar)
Adding a snippet from the end of that video.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: RikW on October 31, 2018, 08:45:09 AM
I think battery capacity/weight ratio is the most important factor for electrifying society and especially for the transport sector
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: magnamentis on October 31, 2018, 07:59:37 PM
I think battery capacity/weight ratio is the most important factor for electrifying society and especially for the transport sector

certainly a big factor but then the resources needed to build all those batteries in masses, thousands of times more than today, should not be neglect as an obstacle.

i predict that in case batteries become the main fuel tanks for most of mobility the damage done to the planet and society by collecting the necessary raw-materials will be as big or even bigger than the wars and pollutions we are facing for oil.

what i'm trying to say is that we do not only have to look at efficiency but at technology used as well and it could well be that Hydrogen will be the solution (fuel cells etc )because the main resources would be electricity and water.

i imagine something like one of the many deserts that meet the oceans like in south africa and namibia as well as parts of west africa etc etc.

while the above is something to consider ( adding to the discussion ) my personal opinion is that it will be a mix with hydrogen serving as main energy storage to fuel most things that are now fueled with fossil fuel. at least provided that no totally new, yet unknown battery (storage) technology will come around the corner ;)
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: rboyd on October 31, 2018, 09:28:40 PM
When the global community (or perhaps the larger powers) get real about cutting emissions, one of the "low hanging fruits" will be aviation. How can one argue that my vacation in Thailand (from Canada) or the arrival of fresh tulips and other things overnight from distant places is not a luxury we could do without to save our societies?

With aviation "accounting for approximately 3.5% of emissions from developed countries", and with the additional nitrogen oxides emissions and contrails "estimated to be about two to four times greater than those of CO2 alone" it will be a low-hanging juicy target that is growing at 9% per year.

The options are batteries (for take-off), biofuels and perhaps hydrogen. All of these add to weight and/or cost, are nowhere near ready for general usage, and may have highly questionable net-carbon emissions (just like the EU has discovered with much biodiesel). We also have the case of US corn ethanol which has an EROI hovering around 1, simply a subsidy to US corn farmers. Only Brazil is able to produce ethanol (sugar cane based) at anywhere near an acceptable EROI. For hydrogen there is also the emotional (and practical) issue that was encapsulated by the Hindenburg. Hydrogen is extremely flammable, and therefore the general public would need to be brought around to flying in a "hydrogen bomb".

My personal feeling is that we simply end up flying a lot less (especially on long-distance "cheap" vacations), possibly reinvigorating some of those more local resorts, with flying returning to being more of an elite pass-time.

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-11707135 (https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-11707135)


Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on November 01, 2018, 12:26:18 AM
'Electric flying is becoming a reality', says easyJet CEO as they plan to test 9-seater electric plane next year
https://electrek.co/2018/10/29/electric-flying-is-becoming-a-reality-says-easyjet-ceo-electric-plane/

It will take a lot of 9 seaters.....

”While they are starting with a small plane, Wright is trying the ambitious goal of building a battery-powered 150-seat plane to compete with 737-size aircrafts in the market for short-haul trips (under 300 miles).”
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: oren on November 01, 2018, 02:19:21 AM
When the global community (or perhaps the larger powers) get real about cutting emissions, one of the "low hanging fruits" will be aviation. How can one argue that my vacation in Thailand (from Canada) or the arrival of fresh tulips and other things overnight from distant places is not a luxury we could do without to save our societies?

With aviation "accounting for approximately 3.5% of emissions from developed countries", and with the additional nitrogen oxides emissions and contrails "estimated to be about two to four times greater than those of CO2 alone" it will be a low-hanging juicy target that is growing at 9% per year.

The options are batteries (for take-off), biofuels and perhaps hydrogen. All of these add to weight and/or cost, are nowhere near ready for general usage, and may have highly questionable net-carbon emissions (just like the EU has discovered with much biodiesel). We also have the case of US corn ethanol which has an EROI hovering around 1, simply a subsidy to US corn farmers. Only Brazil is able to produce ethanol (sugar cane based) at anywhere near an acceptable EROI. For hydrogen there is also the emotional (and practical) issue that was encapsulated by the Hindenburg. Hydrogen is extremely flammable, and therefore the general public would need to be brought around to flying in a "hydrogen bomb".

My personal feeling is that we simply end up flying a lot less (especially on long-distance "cheap" vacations), possibly reinvigorating some of those more local resorts, with flying returning to being more of an elite pass-time.
My personal feeling is that we continue flying as usual up until the collapse, unfortunately. The desire to fly and have that vacation in Thailand is very strong and prevalent across many levels of society, with the result of flight demand growing 7-8% annually. I strongly doubt that the masses will give up flying to save the planet. I fervently hope that some technological solution will be found to enable either flying on batteries, or to somehow synthesize aviation fuel using renewable electricity.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sleepy on November 15, 2018, 10:04:36 AM
Re: large commercial ones: From the video in #209 above and Andreas Schäfer: "We need to start now in order to have these technologies avialable at mid century."
There is only one option left, stop flying.

Stumbled over this:
https://twitter.com/KevinClimate/status/1062300137731641344 (https://twitter.com/KevinClimate/status/1062300137731641344)
Quote
Just noticed that I’ve been blocked by the international civil aviation authority @icao Have others working on aviation emissions also been blocked? Appears to be that their commitment to open skies does not extend to open (& courteous) debate?
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sebastian Jones on November 15, 2018, 05:27:46 PM
I recently booked a flight because it was considerably cheaper (to my employer) than the only other available alternative- driving a personal vehicle. The point here is that simply not flying, while needed, needs to be accompanied by some thought on alternatives and inducements. Of course a swingeing carbon tax would help....
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sleepy on November 15, 2018, 08:22:35 PM
Define "needed"? I resigned thirteen years ago and stopped flying altogether ten years ago when jumping out of a Cessna. My resignation hurt my economy and some thought I was crazy. But I'm still alive and actually far better off today, with less. I have time for my kids, I have time for my old lady, I actually have time to live instead of chasing what? Career? Status? Money? More stuff? More what?

Attaching a couple of slides by Nicholas, the rest is here:
https://www.slideshare.net/kimberlynicholas/academic-flying (https://www.slideshare.net/kimberlynicholas/academic-flying)
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: rboyd on November 19, 2018, 06:28:54 PM
My personal feeling is that we continue flying as usual up until the collapse, unfortunately. The desire to fly and have that vacation in Thailand is very strong and prevalent across many levels of society, with the result of flight demand growing 7-8% annually. I strongly doubt that the masses will give up flying to save the planet. I fervently hope that some technological solution will be found to enable either flying on batteries, or to somehow synthesize aviation fuel using renewable electricity.

I tend to agree with you Oren. I see the collapse as a mixture of tipping point climate impacts and emergency "last ditch" measures that will fail while redistributing the impacts of collapse onto the poor - such as a swingeing fossil fuel tax that crashes many country's economies (Saudi Arabia, Russia and Iran etc., the tourism dependent Caribbean etc., and horticulture/flower producers in Africa and Latin America, etc.) while the rich simply grumble more and more about how much it costs to fuel their yacht and how they have to be "discrete" about their yacht usage and flying their personal jets from airports out of the way of prying eyes. Their "personal helpers" will be cheaper and more abundant though as unemployment rapidly rises. In this way the rich will be comfortable right up to the end of the crash period - just like the Romanovs.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sleepy on November 20, 2018, 12:53:51 PM
Point one from Nicholas slide 9 above: Flying is unusual; increases with high income.
Adding slide 54 as well.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: rboyd on November 20, 2018, 07:20:41 PM
Unfortunately, we have an increasingly large middle class in China that is just getting into flying (as well as eating meat). The future is a wave of Chinese tourists swamping tourist destinations around the world. Just saw a story about officials from Tanzania visiting Hong Kong to push high-end tourism, with direct flights from China to Tanzania just starting.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sleepy on November 21, 2018, 07:05:21 AM
The only way to change is to change myself.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sleepy on November 21, 2018, 07:22:08 AM
An open letter to Danish universities: Let us show the way towards a more ambitious climate agenda
http://sciencenordic.com/open-letter-danish-universities-let-us-show-way-towards-more-ambitious-climate-agenda (http://sciencenordic.com/open-letter-danish-universities-let-us-show-way-towards-more-ambitious-climate-agenda)
Quote
The universities have a particularly heavy responsibility with regard to the implementation of an ambitious climate agenda, for three main reasons.

Firstly, researchers contribute to a particularly high degree of carbon emissions, especially by using air transport to travel to conferences. High emissions offer an equally large potential for reducing the researchers’ climate footprint.

Secondly, scientific authority is a key topic in the fight against climate skepticism. Researchers cannot expect to be taken seriously in the debate on climate change if they do not themselves implement the measures they propose. We have to put our own house in order first if we want others to listen.

Thirdly, the universities are ideally suited to lead the fight against climate change by developing and testing innovative, interdisciplinary and evidence-based measures for reducing carbon emissions. If new solutions are not developed at the universities, where else should they come from?
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on November 22, 2018, 05:26:24 PM
World's First 'Ion Drive' Plane with No Moving Parts Created by MIT Scientists
Quote
The researchers flew 10 flights using an aircraft with a five-metre wingspan, weighing less than 2.5 kilograms. They were able to fly it for up to nine seconds over a distance of 45 metres at a speed of five metres per second. The craft needed around 20 seconds to build up its power and was then launched using a mechanical bungee system.

While this flight time and distance might not seem like much, the researchers point out that they’re actually similar to the those of the first flight of aeroplane inventors the Wright Brothers in 1903. Making further advances in materials and power electronics, and optimising the airframe, could enable the craft to fly faster and for longer. It may also be possible to use solar panels to generate the electricity needed to power the ion drive.
https://www.newsweek.com/worlds-first-ion-drive-plane-no-moving-parts-created-mit-scientists-1227260

A more technical discussion here:
Ion drive meets drone, as small plane flies with no moving parts | Ars Technica
https://arstechnica.com/science/2018/11/small-drone-soars-on-an-ionic-wind-with-no-moving-parts/
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sleepy on December 11, 2018, 06:38:27 AM
New report from Chalmers on Swedish air travel.
https://research.chalmers.se/publication/506796 (https://research.chalmers.se/publication/506796)
In Swedish but with an English summary:
Quote
Greenhouse gas emissions from air-travel is substantial for high-income countries like Sweden. The established accounting methodology for aviation, which is reported to the UNFCCC, is based on how much the aircrafts are fueling in each country (so called bunkering). We have developed a complementary indicator that includes emissions from the whole air-trip to the final destinations as well as the non-CO2 effects (Larsson et al., 2018). In this report we have refined the method based on data from the Swedish airport operator, Swedavia, and analyzed the development between 1990 and 2017.

The number of trips per person has increased dramatically. Domestic air travel has not increased but international trips have doubled from 0.5 trips per person and year in 1990 to 1.0 trips per person in 2017, a yearly increase by 2.9%.

The average distance to the final destination has not increased much during the period since the number of both short and long trips have increased. The average distance is about 2700 km for a one-way trip which is similar to the distance between Stockholm and Madrid.

Emissions per person-km has decreased by 1.9% per year average. In 2017 the were 90 grams CO2 per person-km, and if the non-CO2-effects are included the emissions are estimated to 170 grams CO2-eq. As a comparison the emissions from long-distance travel by car is about 50 grams per person-km, based on the average number of persons in each car on long-distance trips (3 persons).

The total emissions from the air-travel of Swedish citizens was 10 million ton CO2-eq. in 2017, an increase by 47% since 1990. Emissions from domestic aviation is decreasing and now accounts for only 7% of the emissions. The emissions from international trips have increased and now accounts for 93% of the emissions. The emissions increase took place during the 90s. After year 2000 the emissions have been on the same level due to that the emission decrease per person-km have been on par with the increase in person-km.

The greenhouse gas emissions from Swedish inhabitants’ air travel is now about equivalent to the Swedish emissions from car use. The annual emissions from air travel are now about 1.1-ton CO2-eqv. per Swedish inhabitant which is about five times higher than the global average.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on December 29, 2018, 07:37:00 PM
The greening of the package delivery industry still has some kinks to work out.

Customers compare the noise from Alphabet spinout Wing’s delivery drones to a chainsaw
Quote
Wing, a graduate of Google parent company Alphabet’s X R&D lab, aims to develop drones that might one day be used to deliver packages to customers’ doorsteps. The only problem? They’re too noisy.

According to The Wall Street Journal, Wing’s parcel-carrying drones, which were deployed in a rural area of southeastern Australia in October 2017 as part of a pilot program, have disrupted the lives of some longtime residents, who say that they don’t use their yards as much. (The neighbors of a Wing customer who spoke to the Journal have requested that she “stop getting deliveries.”) And the noise — which some accounts compared to that of a chainsaw — tends to spook pups, a local dog club president told the publication.

The current-gen Wing drones can fly at speeds of up to 78 miles per hour and take off and land vertically, thanks to a dozen vertical rotors and two propellers. Automated flight-planning software determines their route, while onboard sensors help them to avoid obstacles.

Despite the sophisticated onboard tech, though, sounds aren’t the only problem Wing’s drones have yet to overcome. User error has resulted in at least one accidental delivery, and the drones are sometimes forced to land due to high winds and obstructions. (According to the Journal, they’ve needed to touch down five times out of 2,000 deliveries.) Moreover, the product selection remains rather small — Wing’s currently working with Guzman y Gomez, to deliver Mexican food and Chemist Warehouse, a pharmacy chain.

But Wing contends that its drone program could result in substantial savings for — and a smaller carbon footprint from — local businesses. A commissioned report cited $9 million in annual cost savings, while a Rand Corporation study forecasted a 6 percent reduction in energy usage compared to trucks. ...
https://venturebeat.com/2018/12/27/alphabet-spinout-wings-drones-are-too-noisy-customers-say/
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on January 13, 2019, 07:48:11 PM
I see the attraction for wireless and autonomous charging, but, in-air? 
I guess that feature would allow recharging stations to be set up in places where a flat landing surface might be difficult to install, such as over steeply sloped or glass roofs, or in rugged or mountainous areas where landing a drone to charge would make it too vulnerable to wildlife (or humans).

Wireless charging hotspots lets drones fly forever through in-air recharges
https://www.teslarati.com/wireless-charging-drone-in-air-ces-global-energy/
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: rboyd on January 15, 2019, 10:37:38 PM
The sales of reloadable shotguns may also increase ...
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Ranman99 on January 16, 2019, 12:14:24 AM
The rise in re-loadable shotgun sales is a given me thinks just about for all the reasons we are seeing in this forum ;-)
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Grubbegrabben on January 16, 2019, 12:52:00 AM
New report from Chalmers on Swedish air travel.
https://research.chalmers.se/publication/506796 (https://research.chalmers.se/publication/506796)
In Swedish but with an English summary:
Quote

....
The greenhouse gas emissions from Swedish inhabitants’ air travel is now about equivalent to the Swedish emissions from car use. The annual emissions from air travel are now about 1.1-ton CO2-eqv. per Swedish inhabitant which is about five times higher than the global average.

Since there are statistics for about everything (and I was a bit curious), it can be noted that the Swedish forestry industry cut down about 36.5 million m3 of trees for construction purposes (2017). The conversion factor to CO2-eqv is about 190 kg CO2 to 1 m3 wood which sums up to 7M ton CO2. So more than half of the annual emissions (10M ton) from air travel is stored in IKEA furniture. Let's hope they last.

Obviously a joke, hopefully people will realize how stupid it is to travel by air.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on March 26, 2019, 04:37:00 PM
Harbour Air to convert all its seaplanes to electric for first all-electric airline
Quote
Being billed as the “world’s first all-electric airline,” the partnership will see MagniX convert all of Harbour Air’s more than 30 seaplanes to electric. The planes will be powered by MagniX’s magni500, a 750-horsepower all-electric motor.

Harbour Air operates the largest all-seaplane fleet in North America. It flies 12 routes in the Pacific Northwest in Canada and the U.S., from cities like Seattle, Vancouver, and Victoria and smaller destinations. The company says more than 500,000 passengers fly on its 30,000 commercial flights each year. Founder and CEO of Harbour Air Seaplanes, Greg McDougall, said of the partnership:

“Harbour Air first demonstrated its commitment to sustainability by becoming the first fully carbon-neutral airline in North America in 2007, through the purchase of carbon offsets. Through our commitment to making a positive impact on people’s lives, the communities where we operate and the environment, we are once again pushing the boundaries of aviation by becoming the first aircraft to be powered by electric propulsion. We are excited to bring commercial electric aviation to the Pacific Northwest, turning our seaplanes into ePlanes.”

MagniX CEO Roei Ganzarski said,

“In 2018, 75 percent of worldwide airline flights were 1,000 miles or less in range. With MagniX’s new propulsion systems coupled with emerging battery capabilities, we see tremendous potential for electric aviation to transform this heavily trafficked ‘middle mile’ range. We’re excited to partner with Harbour Air, a forward thinking, like-minded company that is dedicated to bringing environmentally conscious, cost effective air-transport solutions to the West Coast of North America. This partnership will set the standard for the future of commercial aviation operators.” ...
https://electrek.co/2019/03/26/harbour-seaplanes-electric-airline/
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Ken Feldman on April 05, 2019, 08:47:51 PM
Hybrid battery-electric regional airplanes are in the test phase:

https://cleantechnica.com/2019/04/05/30-fuel-savings-when-flying-utcs-hybrid-electric-regional-planes-soon/ (https://cleantechnica.com/2019/04/05/30-fuel-savings-when-flying-utcs-hybrid-electric-regional-planes-soon/)

Quote
Technically, the 2-megawatt hybrid-electric engine should be enough to shoulder 30 to 50 passengers between 200 and 250 nautical miles on hour-long trips. That segment is always highly focused, efficient, and segmented, so cutting fuel costs by 30% is nothing to sneer.

The beauty of an aircraft is that it needs its 2 MW peak power at takeoff but then only needs half for regular cruising operations. Batteries, thus, just need to push out large amounts of power for a short while before hitting a more manageable cruising output. And the better the energy density of batteries get, the sooner we will have battery-operated regional aircraft.

In this case, efficiency means sacrificing some range. For the time being, the Dash 8 will see its range drop by around 40% down to 600 miles for that efficiency luxury. In order to explain the logic behind the design, Jason Chua, executive director of advanced projects at UTC, was quoted saying:

“Given that 99 percent of the missions that these aircraft flies are under 500 miles and the drafting fuel savings you can get, this seems like a pretty reasonable trade-off.”
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on April 11, 2019, 09:52:55 PM
Norway aviation firm orders 60 all-electric airplanes
Quote
The airplanes will be used for training at OSM Aviation Academy’s flight training centers. Pilots flying the planes will earn the same licenses they would have earned from flying traditional planes. Using the all-electric planes will also cut flight costs, Høiby told Reuters.
https://electrek.co/2019/04/11/norway-60-electric-airplanes/

OSM currently uses about 20 planes for pilot training. Most of them are Cessna 172s, which will be phased out.  While it costs $110/hr. to operate a conventional training plane, the all-electric planes will only cost $20 per hour.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: GoSouthYoungins on April 11, 2019, 10:28:04 PM
Once the fuel is sourced in a green manner, rocket-ship travel will be the most convenient and efficient mode of transportation. If the fuel comes from something abundant (like algae), it could also be fairly inexpensive. Plus, humanity will be interconnected like never before.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqE-ultsWt0&t=9s
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: rboyd on April 12, 2019, 02:38:28 AM
GSY, having lots of fun today or is that rose-coloured glasses I spy?
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sleepy on May 10, 2019, 09:27:46 AM
Edward Hanrahan and Kevin Anderson on BBC yesterday, between ~1:15:45-1:20:48:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0004s9n

Short familiar sentences by Kevin Anderson:
30 years have passed.
We have fundamentally failed on climate change and we are passing that legacy onto our children.
Us high-emitters are still trying to find ways so that we can pay other people to compensate for our high-carbon lifestyles.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on May 11, 2019, 02:02:34 PM
Climate change 'may curb growth in UK flying'
Quote
The advisory Committee on Climate Change (CCC) recently said the UK's planned increase in aviation would need to be curbed to restrict CO2.

Now a senior civil servant has told a green group that means ministers may have to review aviation strategy.
...
In a letter to a tiny pressure group Plan B, the Department for Transport (DfT) aviation head Caroline Low said: “It may be necessary to consider the CCC’s recommended policy approach for aviation.”

This may sound like a cautious civil servant covering bases, but for Plan B it is an admission that the DfT will have to confront the notion that concerns over climate change may outweigh people’s desire to fly more. ...
https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-48233548
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on May 22, 2019, 07:17:46 PM
Flight provider BlackBird adding 100+ electric airplanes by 2020
Quote
The energy cost for the electric eFlyer 4 is four times less expensive than driving a conventional car per mile, three times faster, and requires no aviation fuel, resulting in zero emissions and significantly lower noise pollution compared to conventional aircraft. The affordability aspect alone helps answer high overhead and drives replacement of today’s outdated legacy general aviation aircraft fleets.
https://electrek.co/2019/05/22/blackbird-100-electric-airplanes/
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sleepy on May 30, 2019, 10:27:25 AM
Incrementalism's finest.
https://www.breakit.se/artikel/20346/isabella-lowengrip-ska-fa-fler-att-flyga-privatjet-miljofragan-inte-speciellt-global (https://www.breakit.se/artikel/20346/isabella-lowengrip-ska-fa-fler-att-flyga-privatjet-miljofragan-inte-speciellt-global)
Quote
"I will never be Sweden's largest environmental fighter internationally, but I might be a female role model that will sometime run a unicorn company," she recently told Di Digital.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: kassy on June 03, 2019, 02:03:05 PM
'Flying-V' plane named after a GUITAR burns 20 per cent less fuel than conventional aircraft and can carry more than 300 passengers

Dutch airline KLM are funding a pioneering aeronautical project which could see the shape and layout of commercial aeroplanes changed forever. 

The stunning 'Flying-V' design, financially backed by KLM, has the same wingspan as existing planes and is able to carry up to 314 passengers.

It is named after the iconic Gibson Flying-V electric guitar

....

Its designers say this unique configuration uses 20 per cent less fuel. The wings would host the passenger space, cargo hold, fuel tanks and all other infrastructure, it is believed.

...

Its size makes it a comparable rival to the traditional Airbus A350 and the Boeing 787 and it would be able to use existing gates, hangars and runways


for details and a video see:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-7098415/Flying-V-plane-unveiled-named-GUITAR.html
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Tom_Mazanec on June 03, 2019, 05:07:01 PM
Aviation companies worried about climate activism:
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/travel/2019/06/climate-change-backlash-fuels-worries-for-aviation-industry.html
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on June 05, 2019, 04:53:02 PM
Just for fun: 1-Minute video from the cockpit of a 747, at the link.  Doesn’t look like automation will make pilots obsolete very soon.

Quote
Miami Rick (@miami_rick) 6/4/19, 4:40 AM
By popular demand... This is what a workout in uniform looks like.. ILS 16R at the @SydneyAirport earlier today while fighting crosswinds and gusts and rain and turbulence...all the way until after touchdown. The #QueenOfTheSkies wanted to keep flying, but I had to say no.. #B747
https://twitter.com/miami_rick/status/1135828729517682688
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on June 10, 2019, 03:32:58 AM
Weird problem with GPS signals today and yesterday, causing many delayed and cancelled flights.  GPS is working; satellites are healthy, but the signal is degraded, causing problems for ADS-B (onboard Air Traffic Control equipment).  Solar minimum currently; no sunspots reported, but an unusual number of noctilucent clouds seen in Europe and US.... ???
Quote
Airspace Status (@airspacestatus) 6/8/19, 9:44 PM
011 DCC - ADS-B AND GPS ANOMALIES - bit.ly/2MBVsS8
https://twitter.com/airspacestatus/status/1137535843105722368
Quote
Matt Mastracci (@mmastrac) 6/9/19, 11:41 AM
Apparently planes today have a blanket waiver to fly without GPS. This GPS outage is definitely.. odd.
fly.faa.gov/adv/adv_otherd… pic.twitter.com/hPug58gou6
https://twitter.com/mmastrac/status/1137746467186020352

GPS and ADS-B Problems Cause Cancelled Flights
Quote
Something strange has been going on in the friendly skies over the last day or so. Flights are being canceled. Aircraft are grounded. Passengers are understandably upset. The core of the issue is GPS and ADS-B systems. The ADS-B system depends on GPS data to function properly, but over this weekend a problem with the quality of the GPS data has disrupted normal ADS-B features on some planes, leading to the cancellations.

What is ADS-B and Why Is It Having Trouble?

Automatic Dependent Surveillance-Broadcast (ADS-B) is a communication system used in aircraft worldwide. Planes transmit location, speed, flight number, and other information on 1090 MHz. This data is picked up by ground stations and eventually displayed on air traffic controller screens. Aircraft also receive this data from each other as part of the Traffic Collision Avoidance System (TCAS).
...
The ADS-B system in a plane needs to get position data before it can transmit. These days, that data comes from a global satellite navigation system. In the USA, that means GPS. The GPS system is currently having some problems though. This is where Receiver autonomous integrity monitoring (RAIM) comes in. Safety-critical GPS systems (those in planes and ships) cross-check their current position. If GPS is sending degraded or incorrect data, it is sent to the FAA who displays it on their website. The non-precision approach current outage map is showing degraded service all over the US Eastern seaboard, as well as the North. The cause of this signal degradation is currently unknown.

What Hardware is Affected?

GPS isn’t down though — you can walk outside with your cell phone to verify that. However, it is degraded. How a plane’s GPS system reacts to that depends on the software built into the GPS receiver. If the system fails, the pilots will have to rely on older systems like VOR to navigate. But ADS-B will have even more problems. An aircraft ADS-B system needs position data to operate.  If you can’t transmit your position information, air traffic controllers need to rely on old fashioned radar to determine position. All of this adds up to a safety of flight problem, which means grounding the aircraft.

Digging through canceled flight lists, one can glean which aircraft are having issues. From the early reports, it seems like Bombardier CRJ 700 and 900 have problems. Folks on Airliners.net are speculating that any aircraft with Rockwell Collins flight management systems are having problems.

This is not a small issue, there are hundreds or thousands of canceled flights. The FAA set up a teleconference to access the issue. Since then, the FAA has issued a blanket waiver to all affected flights. They can fly, but only up to 28,000 feet. ...
https://hackaday.com/2019/06/09/gps-and-ads-b-problems-cause-cancelled-flights/
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Tom_Mazanec on June 15, 2019, 08:06:20 PM
UK tourists still love flying:
https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2019/jun/13/uk-tourists-still-in-love-with-long-haul-holidays-despite-flight-shaming
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on June 18, 2019, 07:32:44 PM
Interesting “tail-dragger” design, with pusher-props on the wingtips and tail.  Easy enough nowdays to add a camera under the nose to improve forward visibility, and computer-control of engines and rudder to prevent the plane from swapping ends on the ground (a risk particularly with vintage tail-draggers that have a single heavy engine up front).

https://www.eviation.co/alice/

Eviation's all-electric Alice airplane coming to US regional airline Cape Air by 2022
Quote
Cape Air is one of the largest regional airlines in the US, operating in 35 US and Caribbean cities, with a fleet of 92 nine-seater airplanes. Eviation says Cape Air has a double-digit purchase option for the nine-seat Alice, which it will incorporate into its existing fleet.

Alice will begin test flights this year. Eviation expects to receive certification in 2021, and it says it will start shipping the planes for commercial use by 2022.
https://electrek.co/2019/06/18/eviation-electric-cape-air/
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: crandles on June 23, 2019, 04:43:12 PM
Missed this thread, so moved following post here, though sigmetnow has also beaten me to posting about Alice

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48630656

Why the age of electric flight is finally upon us

Quote
Israeli firm Eviation says the craft - called Alice - will carry nine passengers for up to 650 miles (1,040km) at 10,000ft (3,000m) at 276mph (440km/h). It is expected to enter service in 2022.

...

A small aircraft, like a turbo-prop Cessna Caravan, will use $400 on conventional fuel for a 100-mile flight, says Mr Ganzarski. But with electricity "it'll be between $8-$12, which means much lower costs per flight-hour".

Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: morganism on June 29, 2019, 08:45:24 PM
The Navy’s Patented Hybrid Underwater Aerospace Craft

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/28729/docs-show-navy-got-ufo-patent-granted-by-warning-of-similar-chinese-tech-advances


"Pais is named as the inventor on four separate patents for which the U.S. Navy is the assignee: a curiously-shaped “High Frequency Gravitational Wave Generator;” a room temperature superconductor; an electromagnetic ‘force field’ generator that could deflect asteroids; and, perhaps the strangest of all, one titled “Craft Using An Inertial Mass Reduction Device.” While all are pretty outlandish-sounding, the latter is the one that the Chief Technical Officer of the Naval Aviation Enterprise personally vouched for in a letter to the USPTO, claiming the Chinese are already developing similar capabilities."

https://patents.google.com/?inventor=Salvatore+Pais&oq=inventor:(Salvatore+Pais)

 Craft using an inertial mass reduction device

A craft using an inertial mass reduction device comprises of an inner resonant cavity wall, an outer resonant cavity, and microwave emitters. The electrically charged outer resonant cavity wall and the electrically insulated inner resonant cavity wall form a resonant cavity. The microwave emitters
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: morganism on June 29, 2019, 11:20:50 PM
forgot to add the pdf link for the microwave cavity homework, should also look for "EmDrive".

http://web.mit.edu/22.09/ClassHandouts/Charged%20Particle%20Accel/CHAP12.PDF
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Tom_Mazanec on July 22, 2019, 05:38:04 PM
Contrails make the planet warmer:
https://e360.yale.edu/features/how-airplane-contrails-are-helping-make-the-planet-warmer
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: TerryM on July 22, 2019, 06:41:37 PM
Contrails make the planet warmer:
https://e360.yale.edu/features/how-airplane-contrails-are-helping-make-the-planet-warmer (https://e360.yale.edu/features/how-airplane-contrails-are-helping-make-the-planet-warmer)
Didn't they find a 2C increase ~9/11 when there were virtually no planes in the sky over America?
Terry
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sebastian Jones on July 23, 2019, 07:18:54 AM
Contrails make the planet warmer:
https://e360.yale.edu/features/how-airplane-contrails-are-helping-make-the-planet-warmer (https://e360.yale.edu/features/how-airplane-contrails-are-helping-make-the-planet-warmer)
Didn't they find a 2C increase ~9/11 when there were virtually no planes in the sky over America?
Terry
As with clouds- it's complicated, rather, it's complex. The article posits that the clouds (contrails)  produced by planes act as a blanket at night, resulting in a net warming effect. Tech changes to reduce CO2 emissions could result in thicker contrails, thus more insulation. Now, if planes were only allowed to fly in daytime...
"While CO2 accumulates in the atmosphere and has a long-lasting effect, contrails last a matter of hours at most, and their warming impact is temporary."
Regarding the 9/11 effect: "And after 9/11, when all commercial flights in the U.S. were grounded for three days, the diurnal temperature difference increased by up to 1.8 degrees C. The increase was strongest where air traffic was normally densest, said the study’s author, David Travis of the University of Wisconsin."
In other words, contrails do have a cooling effect during the day, and a warming effect at night. Which seems legit. The article does discount electrification of air travel, or the possibility we will decide to fly less, or that carbon taxes will drive behaviour away from flying.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Tom_Mazanec on August 09, 2019, 02:22:07 AM
Compute how much your flight melts the Arctic, and how much your other green efforts balance that out:
https://www.vox.com/business-and-finance/2019/8/7/20756833/climate-change-flying-calculator-arctic-ice
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Tom_Mazanec on August 15, 2019, 09:34:19 PM
Hydrogen powered plane with 500 mile range:
https://www.fastcompany.com/90388931/this-plane-can-fly-500-miles-powered-entirely-by-hydrogen
ZeroAvia, the startup that designed the hydrogen-fueled electric powertrain inside the plane, has been testing the technology over the past year and emerged from stealth today. The company says it will run a full test flight with hydrogen on board in a few weeks. In 2022, it plans to begin supplying the powertrain for use in planes with as many as 20 seats, on flights up to 500 miles long.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: TerryM on August 15, 2019, 10:49:17 PM
Hydrogen powered plane with 500 mile range:
https://www.fastcompany.com/90388931/this-plane-can-fly-500-miles-powered-entirely-by-hydrogen (https://www.fastcompany.com/90388931/this-plane-can-fly-500-miles-powered-entirely-by-hydrogen)
ZeroAvia, the startup that designed the hydrogen-fueled electric powertrain inside the plane, has been testing the technology over the past year and emerged from stealth today. The company says it will run a full test flight with hydrogen on board in a few weeks. In 2022, it plans to begin supplying the powertrain for use in planes with as many as 20 seats, on flights up to 500 miles long.
And if the hydrogen should escape, we'll capture it in an expanding balloon structure and float to our destination. :)


Terry
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: bluesky on August 15, 2019, 11:55:20 PM
'Flying-V' plane named after a GUITAR burns 20 per cent less fuel than conventional aircraft and can carry more than 300 passengers

Dutch airline KLM are funding a pioneering aeronautical project which could see the shape and layout of commercial aeroplanes changed forever. 

The stunning 'Flying-V' design, financially backed by KLM, has the same wingspan as existing planes and is able to carry up to 314 passengers.

It is named after the iconic Gibson Flying-V electric guitar

....

Its designers say this unique configuration uses 20 per cent less fuel. The wings would host the passenger space, cargo hold, fuel tanks and all other infrastructure, it is believed.

...

Its size makes it a comparable rival to the traditional Airbus A350 and the Boeing 787 and it would be able to use existing gates, hangars and runways


for details and a video see:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-7098415/Flying-V-plane-unveiled-named-GUITAR.html

The consequence of designing planes consuming less and carrying more passengers is counterintuitive. This is resulting in cheaper tickets due to lower cost and air travel competition. The resulting increase in number of planes outpace the energy consumption reduction. A real reduction in air travel greenhouse gas emissions can only be implemented through quota of planes by airlines, and limiting the number of planes flying on a worldwide basis. A company who would like to expand would have to buy existing quota/rights from another competitor
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: vox_mundi on August 16, 2019, 12:58:35 AM
Battery-Powered Plane Crashes in Norway as Country Tries to Ditch Fossil Fuels
https://www.theverge.com/2019/8/15/20806776/norway-electric-plane-battery-crash-fjord-jet-fuel-avinor

An all-electric battery-powered plane has crashed into a lake in Norway, in what is a setback for the country’s attempt to move away from fossil fuel-powered flight. Reuters reports that the Alpha Electro G2 plane is owned and operated by Avinor, Norway’s state-run airport operator, and was being flown by its chief executive, Dag Falk-Petersen, when it crashed. On the day of the incident, the CEO was in the process of giving flights to members of the Norwegian government, and junior government minister Aase Marthe Horrigmo was on board at the time. Both escaped from the crash unharmed.

... it’s currently unclear exactly what caused the crash. Forbes reports that the pilot said he lost all power from the engines as he was approaching the airport to land. He estimated that the plate was travelling at around 43mph when it hit the water.

The plane was an Alpha Electro G2 manufactured by Pipstrel, and it’s the first electric two-seater aircraft to have been approved for commercial production, according to Forbes. It has a range of around 81 miles, and a maximum flight time of an hour. Reuters reported that Norway first started testing the plane last year. ...

(https://img.gfx.no/2458/2458621/7U-uucMpLBw.1000x667.jpg)
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on August 16, 2019, 01:41:52 PM
Intact airplane — hardly a ‘crash.’  More like an ‘off-airport forced landing mishap.’  ;)
It happens.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on August 23, 2019, 08:28:30 PM
‘Flight shaming’ apparently sways Prince William and Kate
Quote
Prince William and Kate opt for budget flight after Harry and Meghan slammed over private jet. Prince William, his wife Catherine and their three children took a budget airline to travel on holiday to Scotland Thursday — just days after his brother Prince Harry and wife Meghan, vocal advocates for efforts to fight the effects of climate change, faced some wrath for their use of private jets. ...
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/flight-shaming-apparently-sways-prince-william-and-kate-and-bernies-electric-school-buses-2019-08-23
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: TerryM on August 24, 2019, 12:00:01 AM
‘Flight shaming’ apparently sways Prince William and Kate
Quote
Prince William and Kate opt for budget flight after Harry and Meghan slammed over private jet. Prince William, his wife Catherine and their three children took a budget airline to travel on holiday to Scotland Thursday — just days after his brother Prince Harry and wife Meghan, vocal advocates for efforts to fight the effects of climate change, faced some wrath for their use of private jets. ...
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/flight-shaming-apparently-sways-prince-william-and-kate-and-bernies-electric-school-buses-2019-08-23
Ah, what a shame that the captains of Green Transportation can't be shamed into doing likewise.
Terry
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on August 26, 2019, 01:34:56 PM
Quote
We For News (@WeForNews) 8/26/19, 7:05 AM
#BREAKING G7 to finance fire-fighting aircraft for Amazon: French presidency-AFP

Dave Toussaint (@engineco16) 8/26/19, 7:12 AM
Interesting statement. So where do we find all of these planes?
https://twitter.com/wefornews/status/1165943327037878273

There is a shortage everywhere already.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: TerryM on August 26, 2019, 01:43:20 PM
Quote
We For News (@WeForNews) 8/26/19, 7:05 AM
#BREAKING G7 to finance fire-fighting aircraft for Amazon: French presidency-AFP

Dave Toussaint (@engineco16) 8/26/19, 7:12 AM
Interesting statement. So where do we find all of these planes?
https://twitter.com/wefornews/status/1165943327037878273

There is a shortage everywhere already.
Perhaps a few Boing products that may never be certified for carrying passengers?
Terry
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: kassy on August 26, 2019, 09:48:45 PM
Passengers could soon be flying on planes fuelled by waste gases from steelworks.

The plan involves using the gases from Tata's Port Talbot plant, which developers believe could be used for thousands of flights a year.

Tata, along with Neath Port Talbot council and American bioengineering firm LanzaTech are working on the plan.

Virgin Atlantic worked with LanzaTech last year to fly from Orlando to London powered by recycled carbon jet fuel.

Waste gases are an unavoidable part of the industrial production of steel and it is thought it could generate 30 million gallons of biofuel for the aviation industry every year.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-49449566

Looks like a good idea.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: rboyd on August 27, 2019, 01:13:57 AM
Quote
We For News (@WeForNews) 8/26/19, 7:05 AM
#BREAKING G7 to finance fire-fighting aircraft for Amazon: French presidency-AFP

Dave Toussaint (@engineco16) 8/26/19, 7:12 AM
Interesting statement. So where do we find all of these planes?
https://twitter.com/wefornews/status/1165943327037878273

There is a shortage everywhere already.
Perhaps a few Boing products that may never be certified for carrying passengers?
Terry

Could be a smashing success!
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: TerryM on August 27, 2019, 01:20:08 AM
The wife wondered why I suddenly burst out laughing. :)


Thanks
Terry
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Tom_Mazanec on September 04, 2019, 07:03:57 PM
A Future Without Long-Haul Vacations
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/09/travel-writer-envisions-future-without-vacations/597016/
Quote
Every time I settle down to write a travel article lately, I feel like a canary in a coal mine, whistling denial. Perhaps, if my work achieves any kind of posterity, it will be in a museum of defunct pastimes from the Extinction Age. Amid the exhibits of hamburgers and combustion engines will be a gallery of press cuttings from the era of mass tourism, fossils for future, static generations to gawp at, wondering at the excess of their deluded forebears, who continued jetting around the planet even as that planet withered and burned before their eyes.

Using Drones To Fight Climate Change
https://www.kunr.org/post/using-drones-fight-climate-change#stream/0
Quote
From more intense wildfires to prolonged droughts, climate change is impacting the ecology of the American West. That’s got researchers in our region looking at a new way to fight some of these impacts: drones.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Tom_Mazanec on September 09, 2019, 06:13:12 PM
Prince Harry wants to make tourism more sustainable — is he a hypocrite?
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/royal-fascinator-prince-harry-air-travel-prince-andrew-jeffrey-epstein-1.5272019
Quote
Goodman said focusing on individual actions is just the place to start in efforts to develop fundamental structural changes that lead to carbon-neutral economies, and suggested that people like Harry should take a close look at their own actions, too.

"Rich countries and celebrity individuals need to get their own houses in order, namely because they owe a much greater debt, based on their historical carbon emissions and extravagant lifestyles, compared to others across the globe."

Whatever Harry does, it seems unlikely his private jet travel to the south of France and Ibiza this summer will quickly be forgotten. Author and biographer Penny Junor said it will come back to haunt him.

"However many commercial flights he takes now, there will always be that little paragraph saying that he was heavily criticized for taking four jets in 11 days."
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Tom_Mazanec on September 11, 2019, 09:48:03 PM
Heathrow Airport warns climate activists against flying drones
https://www.dw.com/en/heathrow-airport-warns-climate-activists-against-flying-drones/a-50370788
Quote
London's Heathrow Airport on Tuesday said it is working with law enforcement to ensure drones are not deployed by climate protesters to disrupt air traffic.

"We have in place the dynamic risks assessment programs which are carried out by airfield and security experts and at no time will safety be compromised," according to a statement issued by airport authorities. "Alongside drone detection capabilities, we will mitigate the impact of this illegal action and operate in a way that is safe at all times."

Protesters plan to fly toy drones near the airport in a bid to halt flights and pressure the government to do more on fighting emissions from the aviation industry.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Tom_Mazanec on September 13, 2019, 10:45:08 PM
Aviation’s black box: Non-disclosure agreements, closed doors and rising CO2
https://www.climatechangenews.com/2019/09/12/non-disclosure-agreements-closed-doors-rising-co2-uns-aviation-body/
Quote
The International Civil Aviation Organisation (Icao), headquartered in downtown Montreal, has been charged with reducing the rising carbon emissions from international flight – an enormous commercial, technical and public relations challenge for the industry.

Between 2013 and 2018, aviation sector emissions grew from 710 to 905 million tonnes of CO2, according to the latest estimates by the International Air Transport Association (Iata). Flying now generates just under 3% of global emissions, roughly the same as Germany. Icao’s own forecast anticipates emissions to increase by up to 300% by 2050 under business as usual.

Climate advocates say oversight is critical in a matter of such high public interest. But through interviews with delegates and observers, Climate Home News has found scrutiny is restricted and key information protected by non-disclosure agreements.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: bluesky on September 13, 2019, 11:29:56 PM
Is the EU about  to tax the aviation and the ferries? I am a bit sceptical that a meaningful tax is to be implemented any time  soon

https://www.euronews.com/2019/09/13/drastic-steps-needed-to-stop-climate-change-germanys-scholz-says
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Tom_Mazanec on September 18, 2019, 07:12:02 PM
Climate change: Germany's conservatives mull doubling air travel tax
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-49719276?intlink_from_url=&link_location=live-reporting-story
Quote
Germany's ruling conservatives have proposed doubling taxes on domestic flights, as part of a wider package to cut CO2 emissions.

The decision was taken by the leadership of the Christian Democrats (CDU), who form a coalition with the Christian Social Union (CSU) and the Social Democrats (SPD).

Tax of €7.38 (£6.5; $8.1) per ticket is currently levied on domestic flights.

Connecting flights that are part of long-haul journey will be exempt.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Tom_Mazanec on September 21, 2019, 12:43:54 AM
OPINION: INSTEAD OF FLIGHT SHAMING, LET’S BE THOUGHTFUL AND SELECTIVE ABOUT ALL TRAVEL
https://ensia.com/voices/flight-shaming-flying-travel-carbon-co2-emissions-flyless-aviation-cars-trains/
Quote
In early June 2019, the three of us were having a conversation at the University of British Columbia when Lior expressed some dissatisfaction about an activity at his kids’ school that suggested airplane travel is bad for the climate. In fact, he said, per passenger mile, air travel carbon emissions are of the same order of magnitude as other modes of transportation, so it doesn’t matter covering climate nowmuch whether you drive or fly. However, he further explained, since larger planes are more carbon-efficient and since takeoff and landing are particularly costly, the carbon efficiency of air travel significantly depends on distance. In other words, short-haul flights tend to be inefficient relative to driving, while transcontinental flights are very efficient.

The other two of us looked at each other, bewildered. We had both calculated our carbon budgets and seen that a single transatlantic flight would blow our annual carbon budget. Many prominent climate scientists were touting #flyingless. But was Lior right? Had we been drinking flight-shaming Kool-Aid?

That evening, we looked up the numbers on Wikipedia and found, to our surprise, that Lior seemed right! At least to some extent. We tweeted about it to let the experts weigh in.

Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: RichardStamper on September 21, 2019, 11:03:51 AM
The key point about air travel is just how easy it makes emitting lots of CO2.  How many people are going to hop in a car and drive from Vancouver to Toronto for a conference or holiday?  Google Maps puts that at 40 hours of driving, then another 40 hours to get back home again.  The per capita per km emissions flying and driving may be similar but that's beside the point when almost no one is going to consider driving a journey that is easy in a plane.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: zufall on September 21, 2019, 11:36:29 AM
And of course CO2 is not the only factor to be taken into account when comparing the climate effect of different modes of transportation:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_impact_of_aviation#Total_climate_effects
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: TerryM on September 23, 2019, 11:53:12 AM
The venerable travel agency Thomas Cooks Tours went under this morning leaving ~300K tourists stranded around the world.


https://www.cbsnews.com/news/thomas-cook-airlines-british-tour-operator-stops-trading-cancels-bookings-no-funding-2019-09-22/ (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/thomas-cook-airlines-british-tour-operator-stops-trading-cancels-bookings-no-funding-2019-09-22/)


British tourists are covered by an insurance plan assuring that they will be returned to their homes, but these are only about 1/2 of the total number.


Brexit uncertainty is being blamed, heat waves that have kept tourists home have been blamed, no one has mentioned Piss Poor Management yet.
Terry
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: etienne on September 23, 2019, 09:25:47 PM
The venerable travel agency Thomas Cooks Tours went under this morning leaving ~300K tourists stranded around the world.


https://www.cbsnews.com/news/thomas-cook-airlines-british-tour-operator-stops-trading-cancels-bookings-no-funding-2019-09-22/ (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/thomas-cook-airlines-british-tour-operator-stops-trading-cancels-bookings-no-funding-2019-09-22/)


British tourists are covered by an insurance plan assuring that they will be returned to their homes, but these are only about 1/2 of the total number.


Brexit uncertainty is being blamed, heat waves that have kept tourists home have been blamed, no one has mentioned Piss Poor Management yet.
Terry
Well, these days you also have many airplane companies going bankrupt. I guess it's only the beginning. 2 in France, maybe one in Germany...
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: TerryM on September 23, 2019, 09:48:04 PM
It's a good thing that Boeing has all of those juicy MIC contracts to keep them afloat. 8)
Terry
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Tom_Mazanec on September 24, 2019, 09:42:16 PM
Europe’s Airports Step Up To Climate Change Challenge
https://www.forbes.com/sites/marisagarcia/2019/09/23/europes-airports-step-up-to-climate-change-challenge/#42ba82317d52
Quote
This past June, ACI EUROPE announced a resolution for its 500 members to reach net zero carbon emissions by 2050, for the carbon emissions under their control. That commitment has been undersigned by 203 airports to date run by more than 47 airport operators across 42 European countries, representing 64.3% of European air passenger traffic. Nine airports have signed the commitment over the past 3 months: Aberdeen, Glasgow, Liege, Luxembourg, Malta, Salzburg, Southampton, Turin and Toulouse-Blagnac. More are expected to join the pledge in the coming months.

There are already three net zero airports in Europe: Luleå, Ronneby and Visby - operated by the Swedish airport operator, Swedavia. Swedavia aims to achieve zero emissions for all its airports by 2020, including the hub at Stockholm-Arlanda.
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: nanning on September 25, 2019, 06:29:50 PM
  1% of English residents take one-fifth of overseas flights, survey shows

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/sep/25/1-of-english-residents-take-one-fifth-of-overseas-flights-survey-shows

 Quotes:
The figures, published in a Department for Transport survey, also reveal that the 10% most frequent flyers in England took more than half of all international flights in 2018. However, 48% of the population did not take a single flight abroad in the last year.

Environmental activists said the new figures showed the UK could cut air traffic and emissions without affecting ordinary holidaymakers.

Leo Murray, director of innovation at 10:10 Climate Action
What we need to do is target a minority of problem flyers and stop them from taking so many flights,” he added.

The findings are based on responses from more than 15,000 English residents who participated in the 2018 National Transport Survey and were revealed to the Guardian following a Freedom of Information request.

There is currently no country in which travellers pay an escalating levy on each flight they take in a year.

Chris Stark, the CCC’s chief executive
He argued that the UK should take a leading role in cutting emissions from the sector, rather than wait for more comprehensive international agreements to be struck.

(sorry if this is the wrong thread)
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Tor Bejnar on September 25, 2019, 07:55:49 PM
Quote
… However, 48% of the population did not take a single flight abroad in the last year.
This suggests 52% of the residents of England did fly abroad during a 12-month period.  Frankly, I don't believe it; most people don't hardly every fly.  Maybe 52% of those who flew even once during the year traveled abroad.  The end of my speculations.

From the internet (https://fullfact.org/economy/do-15-people-take-70-flights/):
Quote
“An estimated 70 per cent of all flights in 2013 were taken by just 15 per cent of the [English] population, with 57 per cent of the [English] population taking no flights abroad”

In March 2014 the survey asked a random selection of 1,000 adults in Great Britain how many trips by plane they’d taken in the last 12 months. 52% hadn’t flown at all.

We asked the Department for Transport, which designed the survey, about this claim. It said a more precise estimate is that the 15% of adults in Great Britain who made 3 or more flights (our frequent fliers) made 71% of flights from March 2013 to March 2014.

The same survey asked about what types of flights people had taken. 7% had flown domestically, …
Now, with some more data: boy, more people fly then I expected.  (I all but stopped 30 years ago - about 6 within-the-US flights [all but one round-trips] since then, none in 5 years.  I guess I presumed others stopped too.  :'()  And, most English flyers leave England.  (Duh, I think: England is, after all, the size of Mississippi.)
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: nanning on September 25, 2019, 08:07:43 PM
Quote
boy, more people fly then I expected.

That seems to be the case. Do you have things like Easyjet or RyanAir in the U.S.? (you expect us to know your culture ;))

The Guardian article was about the U.K. population I think.
English <> U.K.
U.K. = also Scotland and Wales, Northern Ireland, Channel Islands etc.


Searching for a scientific link I found this:

  CO2 emissions from commercial aviation, 2018
Authors: Brandon Graver, Ph.D., Kevin Zhang, Dan Rutherford, Ph.D.
September 2019. Keywords: aviation; aircraft; fuel efficiency; carbon dioxide


https://theicct.org/sites/default/files/publications/ICCT_CO2-commercl-aviation-2018_20190918.pdf
Title: Re: Aviation
Post by: Sigmetnow on October 15, 2019, 06:15:24 PM
Ban air miles to combat climate crisis, recommends UK research
Quote
Air miles programs should be banned and a levy on frequent flyers implemented in order to reduce carbon emissions from aviation, according to new research.
...
"Flying is a uniquely high-impact activity and is the quickest and cheapest way for a consumer to increase their carbon footprint," the report says.

Air miles programs encourage people to take extra flights to keep up their "privileged traveler status" and should be banned, according to the report.

So-called "mileage runs" are a common way for travelers to top up their points in order to maintain access to perks such as priority boarding.
An air miles levy would be based on the number of miles flown by each passenger, penalizing those who fly the most while leaving the majority of people unaffected.

Research shows that 15% of the UK population take 70% of flights, and these travelers -- who tend to be wealthier and less price-sensitive -- would shoulder most of the burden. By way of comparison, 50% of Britons don't fly at all in any one year.
https://www.cnn.com/travel/amp/air-miles-ban-report-scli-intl/index.html