Arctic Sea Ice : Forum

AGW in general => Policy and solutions => Topic started by: Bob Wallace on April 27, 2017, 09:34:37 PM

Title: The Boring Company
Post by: Bob Wallace on April 27, 2017, 09:34:37 PM
An image of Musk's boring machine seems to have leaked.  The project is much further along than most of us realized.

(https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpop.h-cdn.co%2Fassets%2F17%2F17%2F1493312055-boring-go.jpg&hash=3464e4efdbc52c0e2234411e711d396d)

Think about going from San Francisco to New York in a fairly straight line.  Underneath the Sierras, Rockies and the other small ranges.  The distance through the Sierras is only about 65 miles.  Two Chunnels. 

If the route could be dug for a small percentage of present digging costs it would make it possible to do all sorts of interesting things with 'loop  routes.  City in the way?  Go under it.

The proposed high speed routes for San Francisco (including the Bay) and for LA both go underground .
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Bob Wallace on April 27, 2017, 09:41:23 PM
Interesting video on how tunnel boring machines work.

https://youtu.be/qx_EjMlLgqY (https://youtu.be/qx_EjMlLgqY)

One thing that struck me on a tunnel that is now being finished was that the completion of the drilling the machines (two, I think) would dig themselves into their graves and be abandoned.

If Musk can land first stages of rockets on barges and relaunch them a few later I bet he'll figure out to use these very expensive machines more than once.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: TerryM on April 27, 2017, 10:30:04 PM
During a California quake, I believe I'd prefer to be above ground.


Terry
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Bob Wallace on April 28, 2017, 02:36:56 AM
The BART tunnel under San Francisco Bay did fine in the 1989 Loma Prieta earthquake.

Part of the interstate highway system collapsed.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on April 28, 2017, 03:33:56 AM
During a California quake, I believe I'd prefer to be above ground.

Terry

Actually, with a strongly built tunnel, you'd be safer underground -- nothing to fall on you.  The entire structure would be moving "with" the earth, rather than various bits of it trying to catch up....  The only problems would be right on the fault line, where the earth would be moving in different directions.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: mati on April 28, 2017, 04:42:05 AM
During a California quake, I believe I'd prefer to be above ground.
Terry

LOL well you will never be there eh? you will be hiding in your room in Windsor.
so why are you so concerned.. let me guess... rhinocherous party? weathermen?
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: TerryM on April 28, 2017, 08:48:24 AM
During a California quake, I believe I'd prefer to be above ground.
Terry

LOL well you will never be there eh? you will be hiding in your room in Windsor.
so why are you so concerned.. let me guess... rhinocherous party? weathermen?


?  I own a home in Riverside California where I came of age & remained most of the time until I was 35 and moved permanently to Las Vegas. Windsor seems nice but I've only driven through a few times. 3 of my 5 wives were from Riverside & my first two businesses were in Riverside and Norco. I've been in Cambridge, Galt region, since 2004.


Lived through a lot of quakes in California, but never experienced any damage. Riverside experienced decades of problems with their major sewer lines and ended up replacing the lot with much tougher materials.


When orangeburg pipes were in vogue for residential sewers, they'd crumble. Next they tried PVC, but it would get squeezed so that a 4" line would be 6" by 1". Finally settled on 4' sections of 1/2" thick vitrified clay tile, joined by flexible rubber connectors.(Business #2 was as a plumbing contractor) 8)


If the tunnel walls are of heavy enough construction there shouldn't be a problem, but I'd still rather be on the surface when things start shaking.


Terry
BTW, Missing the reference to Rinocherous party? & weathermen - is the spelling a hint?
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Bob Wallace on April 28, 2017, 04:54:40 PM
I so much want to see what the cost per foot/mile/km/whatever is likely to be for Musk's tunnels.

If the Hyperloop works.  (That has to be proven first.)

If the 'loop works then it's going to be interesting to see if it would be less expensive to run the tubes overland with the real estate, permitting, and column costs.  Or simply go underground where the land is free (?).

If you own property in the US you (or someone) owns the mineral rights below your property.  Do you own the potential tunnel space?

Imagine a subway system that runs faster than a jet airliner.  Around the world.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on April 28, 2017, 09:56:22 PM
Elon Musk unveils concept behind ‘The Boring Company’ featuring Tesla vehicles speeding through tunnels on mobile platforms
https://electrek.co/2017/04/28/elon-musk-the-boring-company-concept-video/

A wild concept –– but so was the hyperloop! ––  this idea would allow ICE vehicles, as well as EVs, to travel emissions-free at high speeds across town via tunnels.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on April 28, 2017, 11:09:27 PM
Elon Musk unveils concept behind ‘The Boring Company’ featuring Tesla vehicles speeding through tunnels on mobile platforms
https://electrek.co/2017/04/28/elon-musk-the-boring-company-concept-video/

A wild concept –– but so was the hyperloop! ––  this idea would allow ICE vehicles, as well as EVs, to travel emissions-free at high speeds across town via tunnels.

William LeGate:  @elonmusk Serious question: are you actually building this, or is this still a joke? Hard to tell with you…

Elon Musk:  @williamlegate Couldn't agree more

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/858063290039115777
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on May 03, 2017, 09:56:30 PM
From 2012, referencing the tunnel being added in the San Francisco Bay area, just 0.9 miles from the active Hayward Fault.

How to Build a 21st-Century Tunnel in Earthquake Country
https://www.wired.com/2012/08/21st-century-tunnel-earthquake/ (https://www.wired.com/2012/08/21st-century-tunnel-earthquake/)
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on May 12, 2017, 09:24:58 PM
It appears he's repurposing the test hyperloop "pusher" as a sled that will eventually carry cars through the tunnels.

Elon Musk unveils prototype ‘electric sled’ and first pictures inside his tunnels under construction in LA
Quote
Even though Elon Musk described his new Boring Company as “a few engineers and interns”, it seems to be moving incredibly fast.

They took delivery of their first boring machine last month and Musk now unveils new pictures of the entry hole, staging area for the machine, and the start of his network of tunnels under Los Angeles.

He even announced the first few routes:

“Full length of first tunnel will run from LAX to Culver City, Santa Monica, Westwood and Sherman Oaks. Future tunnels will cover all of greater LA.”
...
https://electrek.co/2017/05/12/elon-musk-electric-sled-tunnel-boring-company/

Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Bob Wallace on May 12, 2017, 09:57:37 PM
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on May 12, 2017, 10:20:19 PM
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.


Couldn't have said it better myself. ;D
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Bob Wallace on May 12, 2017, 11:02:13 PM
Quote
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

I think I might have seen someone say that at one time.

Hummmm... Perhaps I should pull a Trump and claim I just made that up.
---

I don't want to pour ice water on Elon's idea of moving cars rapidly around cities, but if he's got a much cheaper way to dig tunnels how about increasing the passenger volume.

Imagine super-fast subway systems that moved from specific point to point with few/no stops.  Let other public and personal transport methods get people to and from the end points.  Perhaps a line that made two stops on Staten Island, about one third from each end, and then terminated midtown Manhattan (or some higher volume traffic route).  Or the East Bay to Silicon Valley.

Oh, that would be the Hyperloop wouldn't it?   ;)

Desirable places to live suffer from housing shortages and very high purchase/rent prices.  And that makes it a big problem for those who work in those areas but don't make a lot of money.  A very fast and affordable transportation would make it possible for lower wage people to live in a nice place for an affordable price and not spend huge amounts of their lives commuting long distances.

Looks like when others get the 'loop ready to go Elon's company will be ready to drill the tunnels they need.  I'm thinking one under the major mountain ranges between the two coasts.  Let your freak 'loop fly....
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Bob Wallace on May 12, 2017, 11:14:32 PM
Suppose we really screw up and let global warming get way out of line.  Living large parts of our lives underground is one way to deal with very high surface temperatures.

Elon's company can bore us some new cities.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: TerryM on May 12, 2017, 11:39:02 PM
According to LA weekly:
No tunnel. or hole (>5') permits have been granted since one for "annual trench excavation/activity permit" expired on July 27 2015.


Can't dig a >5' hole in Ca. without OSHA inspectors & bunches of permits, which brings up the question of where the pictured hole and tunnel actually are.
Space-x apparently did wan't a pedestrian tunnel under a street to their parking lot, but that one was 30' wide by 50' feet long, and no permits have been applied for yet.


OSHA takes holes and trenches very seriously. Much of LA is built on shaky sand that can liquefy.


 http://www.laweekly.com/news/elon-musks-tunnel-isnt-under-the-405-and-it-doesnt-have-state-approval-7945503 (http://www.laweekly.com/news/elon-musks-tunnel-isnt-under-the-405-and-it-doesnt-have-state-approval-7945503)


Terry
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: crandles on May 13, 2017, 01:02:07 AM

Can't dig a >5' hole in Ca. without OSHA inspectors & bunches of permits, which brings up the question of where the pictured hole and tunnel actually are.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2017-02-16/elon-musk-is-really-boring (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2017-02-16/elon-musk-is-really-boring)
Quote
The pit is at least 15 feet deep and more than 50 feet wide. It’s in a nondescript lot at Crenshaw Boulevard and West 120th Street, not far from Los Angeles International Airport. If not for the huge pile of dirt next to it, you’d never know it was there. Seen from the top of the parking garage at SpaceX,

Seems quite specific.

Quote
Musk chose the SpaceX parking lot as the site of his first dig, mostly because it was convenient and he could legally do so without city permits. The plan is to expand the current hole into a ramp designed for a large tunnel boring machine and then start digging horizontally once the machine is 50 feet or so below ground, which would make it low enough to clear gas and sewer lines and to be undetectable at the surface. The company, such as it is, is working on securing permits and hopes to have them by the time the tunnel hits the property line.

Seems at odds with the LA times article.

Quote
Mostly, Musk was going to approach it in his usual way: He’d figure it out as he went along.

Figuring out late that he needs some permits might be a bad start.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Bob Wallace on May 13, 2017, 02:48:18 AM
Quote
Figuring out late that he needs some permits might be a bad start.


Quote
. The company ... is working on securing permits and hopes to have them by the time the tunnel hits the property line.

You might call it "just in time" planning.  Rather than wait for some period of time for the permit Boring, Inc. can start testing its machine now.  There may be some risk of not getting a permit, but I would expect some talented attorneys spoke with the LA Planning Department early on.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on May 13, 2017, 03:43:12 AM
Several outlets say something like this:
Quote
He doesn't need permits to dig on private company property, but he would need to get them from the city of Los Angeles should he want to dig beyond SpaceX's campus....
https://www.engadget.com/2017/04/28/elon-musk-wants-to-build-a-traffic-skipping-tunnel-utopia/ (https://www.engadget.com/2017/04/28/elon-musk-wants-to-build-a-traffic-skipping-tunnel-utopia/)
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Bruce Steele on May 13, 2017, 06:16:15 AM
I know the 405, I have been stuck in traffic there plenty of times in my life. I don't fly much anymore but I understand the anxiety of sitting dead stop in traffic wondering if I can make the last five miles before I miss my flight. That doesn't mean I can understand building a tube from Westwood to LAX for my new Tesla, Maserati , or Lamborghini so I don't have to deal with the inconvenience of living in LA. Living in LA should come with the problem of sharing the same small/ large area with millions of other people . Part of the reality , part of the turf, rich , poor , whatever color  or persuasion .
 So the tube for the über wealthy is for me offensive . For me the idea that everyone is inconvenienced , together , is way more appealing than the notion that enough money can get you to LAX so you can catch your privately chartered Lear jet to fly to your favorite island getaway , horse ridding lesson or " business meeting"  while avoiding the traffic the rest of us get stuck with.
 Screw Elon's vision for the -1%
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: TerryM on May 13, 2017, 06:59:33 AM
Several outlets say something like this:
Quote
He doesn't need permits to dig on private company property, but he would need to get them from the city of Los Angeles should he want to dig beyond SpaceX's campus....
https://www.engadget.com/2017/04/28/elon-musk-wants-to-build-a-traffic-skipping-tunnel-utopia/ (https://www.engadget.com/2017/04/28/elon-musk-wants-to-build-a-traffic-skipping-tunnel-utopia/)
I don't believe the bolded is correct.
I'm no lawyer, but I have dug holes in 4 states & recall either waiting for permits and putting up what I considered high bonds, or starting the job late Friday & having everything cleaned up before Monday morning.
I was a contractor, not an owner, so different rules may apply.
I did contemplate digging an oil change trench and was advised I'd never get a permit so I dropped the idea. That would have been built on property I did own in rural San Bernardino County - not a hotbed of over regulation.


I haven't been following the Boring story, but Bruce seems to have it wrapped up. Toys for the rich, traffic jams for the rest.


Terry
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Bob Wallace on May 13, 2017, 07:24:48 AM
A difference between permits to dig on one's own property and permits to dig under property one does not own?

I would imagine that it wouldn't be hard to pull a permit to excavate a hole in land you owned.  I had no problem pulling a permit for six foot diameter hole that went down about 30'.  Drilling under other people's buildings, freeways, etc. - that's something different.

Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: TerryM on May 13, 2017, 07:28:41 AM
A difference between permits to dig on one's own property and permits to dig under property one does not own?

I would imagine that it wouldn't be hard to pull a permit to excavate a hole in land you owned.  I had no problem pulling a permit for six foot diameter hole that went down about 30'.  Drilling under other people's buildings, freeways, etc. - that's something different.


Bob, I think the issue is that you did have to pull the permit.
Terry
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Bob Wallace on May 13, 2017, 08:24:09 AM
Yes, Terry.

I'm suggesting that Boring/Tesla could have pulled a permit to dig on their own property and are waiting for permits to extend their dig past their property.

Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: TerryM on May 13, 2017, 10:57:46 AM
Yes, Terry.

I'm suggesting that Boring/Tesla could have pulled a permit to dig on their own property and are waiting for permits to extend their dig past their property.


The LA Weekly article indicated no permit or permit applications since the last one expired in July 2015, and that date I believe is earlier than Elon's Boring phase.


Is there information re. the diameter of the tunnel. the material it will be made from, whether bedding material is required etc.?
This looks like a very expensive way to get to LAX.


Terry
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on May 13, 2017, 02:28:45 PM
Part of the disagreement here may simply be semantics.  Notifying the quasi-governmental "call before you dig" line and waiting the required day or two to have the local utilities come out and mark the locations of their lines across your property is not, to my mind, a "permit."  Exactly what and where you plan to dig is left to you. 

Digging on property that does not belong to you is where the municipal overlords get to have their say.  In this case, they may be waiting to see the results of Musk's trial dig before issuing further permissions.  If things go wrong here, it's SpaceX that has to deal with it.  Musk himself intends to find things out as he goes along; he believes tunnels can be dug much faster and cheaper than currently done.  But: he has said that his tunnels will be much smaller than usual (made possible in part due to the risk-reduction and emission-free factors of the sled concept compared to individual vehicle operation), and eventually the tunnel shoring would be done while the digging proceeds -- no stopping one to do the other.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on May 13, 2017, 03:55:50 PM
I know the 405, I have been stuck in traffic there plenty of times in my life. I don't fly much anymore but I understand the anxiety of sitting dead stop in traffic wondering if I can make the last five miles before I miss my flight. That doesn't mean I can understand building a tube from Westwood to LAX for my new Tesla, Maserati , or Lamborghini so I don't have to deal with the inconvenience of living in LA. Living in LA should come with the problem of sharing the same small/ large area with millions of other people . Part of the reality , part of the turf, rich , poor , whatever color  or persuasion .
 So the tube for the über wealthy is for me offensive . For me the idea that everyone is inconvenienced , together , is way more appealing than the notion that enough money can get you to LAX so you can catch your privately chartered Lear jet to fly to your favorite island getaway , horse ridding lesson or " business meeting"  while avoiding the traffic the rest of us get stuck with.
 Screw Elon's vision for the -1%

Why do you assume Musk's tunnels will only be used by the wealthiest 1%?  That's like saying cheaper rocket launches will never benefit you -- when in fact it will make possible SpaceX's deployment of over 4,000 satellites to provide cheap internet service that covers the globe, for example.

Musk may have started out by making EVs for the 1%, but he did that to fund the development of the mass-market EV we'll see this July.  He looked at roofing and developed a lighter, longer-lasting, more durable alternative that generates clean energy and ties to batteries that can help stabilize the grid, power your home in emergencies, and end up costing less than even a home's lifetime of cheap asphalt roofing.

 Tesla's mission is to accelerate the world’s transition to sustainable energy. 

Musk has a home near LA, and he travels by car just like you.  He wants to remove much more than 1% of the cars from the 405 -- and you can be sure the county commissioners want that, too, and will insist on it before they give permission for the project.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: TerryM on May 13, 2017, 04:28:05 PM
SigM


Assuming LA Weekly is reporting accurately we have to assume:


1) - That digging permits are required in Space X's local.
2) - That Space x is aware that digging permits are required.
3) - That no permits have been applied for since Elon began his Boring initiative.
4) - The permit(s) previously pulled was not a call before digging OK, was for work on Space x land.


Terry

Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Bruce Steele on May 13, 2017, 05:35:02 PM
SigM, I figured when you locate your tunnel at Westwood ( average household worth > 1 mill, average household income a little less than 200,000) with Brentwood , and Beverly Hills nearby it was obvious who your target demographic was. With LAX at the other end it becomes even more apparent Elon's tunnel is designed to service the lifestyles of the rich and famous with the associated energy consumptive habits included in that income demographic.
 I am not a believer in trickle down economics. I am also somehow not understanding the point of taking expensive cars to an airport parking garage when a very fast train could accomplish the same
purpose and might service better a more inclusive demographic? So maybe those airport shuttle buses will take up a fair share of the ridership on the tunnel if it is  actually  built but it is still just a way to make flying out of LA easier. I thought NOT flying was kinda like NOT eatting beef .
 Maybe I'm lost .
 Small is beautiful
 
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: TerryM on May 13, 2017, 05:43:22 PM
So many questions:


With small tunnels to accommodate the small sleds, will pairs of tunnels be required for two way traffic?
What propulsion system accelerates the sleds to such speeds, are G-Forces a problem?
The sled appears to have rubber tires, steel to steel is more efficient & no blowouts at speed.
It never rains in California, it pours, man it pours. Lyrics aside flash floods are not rare.
Large ventilation shafts will be required, how far apart are these, will they interfere with surface infrastructure?
Loading cars side by side in a long streamlined sled structure would be more efficient, why one car/sled facing forward?
Oil wells, gas pockets, and tar pits pockmark LA & Orange Counties, will these be avoided or will the tunnels attempt to drive straight through?
Who are the prospective clients? Airport parking is and will be expensive, most would prefer leaving the car behind.
If it's cheap and popular won't there be Disney Land like lines waiting for the ride?


If it were anyone but Musk, I'd be shouting Vapor Ware. It just doesn't make sense from so many prospectives.
Any answers to any of the questions I've posed might help me to understand.
Thanks
Terry
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: TerryM on May 13, 2017, 05:46:49 PM
Bruce
Sorry for my cross post.
The points you raise are valid - particularly the parking problem. Why take a car to LAX?
Terry
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: oren on May 13, 2017, 06:01:20 PM
From a different perspective: Is fast tunnel-digging technology a good thing? I think the answer is yes. It could enable some mass transit projects to move forward. I don't worry much about the chosen proof-of-concept location though I agree it's weird. Give it time, and maybe something good will come out of it.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Bob Wallace on May 13, 2017, 06:04:41 PM
Quote
I am not a believer in trickle down economics.

How about trickle down manufacturing?

Remember how expensive laptops were early on?  How about cell phones?  How about large screen TVs?

Are you aware how much their prices have dropped as they matured?  The first few units are typically a lot more expensive to produce.  Lots of development costs and inefficiencies that jack prices up high.

Put the first tunnel where there are people with extra money to pay for its use.  If it works and is popular then look for the next best place to install one.  At some point, if the idea works, there will be lots of tunnels being bored at the same time and lots of neighborhoods being connected, not just the rich ones.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Bob Wallace on May 13, 2017, 06:28:47 PM
So many questions:


With small tunnels to accommodate the small sleds, will pairs of tunnels be required for two way traffic?
What propulsion system accelerates the sleds to such speeds, are G-Forces a problem?
The sled appears to have rubber tires, steel to steel is more efficient & no blowouts at speed.
It never rains in California, it pours, man it pours. Lyrics aside flash floods are not rare.
Large ventilation shafts will be required, how far apart are these, will they interfere with surface infrastructure?
Loading cars side by side in a long streamlined sled structure would be more efficient, why one car/sled facing forward?
Oil wells, gas pockets, and tar pits pockmark LA & Orange Counties, will these be avoided or will the tunnels attempt to drive straight through?
Who are the prospective clients? Airport parking is and will be expensive, most would prefer leaving the car behind.
If it's cheap and popular won't there be Disney Land like lines waiting for the ride?


If it were anyone but Musk, I'd be shouting Vapor Ware. It just doesn't make sense from so many prospectives.
Any answers to any of the questions I've posed might help me to understand.
Thanks
Terry

Pairs of tunnels make sense.  The tunnels are too small for two tracks.

Perhaps sets of five tunnels, two going and two coming and a fifth in the middle for service access.

Propulsion?  Mag-lev?

Both LA and SF have subterranean transportation systems.  LA a subway and SF's BART system runs underground much of its route.  Including under San Francisco Bay.  All that geological stuff has already been dealt with.

The tunnel is fairly small.  There probably is not room for two cars, side by side.

Here's my take.  We won't see a lot of these car tunnels.  But if Boring demonstrates that the cost of a tunnel could be very significantly cheaper by making the tunnels smaller (and whatever other tricks Elon has in mind) I can see the development of very fast subway systems. 

Gosh, I've circled back to the Hyperloop, haven't I?    :o

Not Hyperloop in terms of mostly evacuated air and 700 MPH, but streamlined cars with good aerodynamics traveling at over 100 miles an hour.  High speed rail types speeds.  Very high speeds would be limited by acceleration and deceleration comfort issues.

I'm a huge admirer of Musk, but I don't think he's right when it comes to cars. 

I think it far more likely that we see large corporations owning/operating robotaxi systems than individual Tesla owners putting their cars to work as robotaxis when they aren't using them.  If I purchase a 'entry luxury' or luxury level car I'm not going to want to have strangers riding around in it.  Perhaps some people will as it may be the only way they can afford a Tesla.  But I suspect that number will be way small.  I see companies running robotaxis that cost far less to manufacture and are more useful as taxis.

And I think robotaxis will allow for 'spontaneous carpools' and shared taxi rides which will greatly lower the number of cars on our roads.  Take away a lot of the congestion and those who want their personal car at the airport (for some strange reason) will just drive there.  Most will opt to leave their car in their garage and take a robotaxi, I would guess.

Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: TerryM on May 13, 2017, 07:16:40 PM
I think I'm in total agreement, but for one small point. When I was speaking of cars side by side, I was referring to them being at 90 degrees to the direction of travel, within a streamlined sled. Drive on, drive off & leave your elevator behind.


I don't see the utility of the system as presented. High speed rail, as is now available in Germany, France, Japan and China allows commuters to live far from wherever their work may take them. The elevated systems used in China, with maglev, already provide many of the advantages that Musk imagines for tunnels, and it's already beta tested. Why reinvent the horseless carriage when super trains are already rolling, (or floating?)?


Terry
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Bruce Steele on May 13, 2017, 07:18:26 PM
Terry, I think the thousands of abandoned oil wells in LA are a valid concern. I know that here in the SB area there has been a long running effort to cap old leaking wells along the coast. Problem is they weren't ever well documented and mapped in the first place so they keep turning up even after the problem has been fixed. I think digging a tunnel at fifty feet anywhere in LA will surely require cutting off and resealing old abandoned wells. I don't know what you do with active wells. Just running a boring machine straight through them risks wreaking the boring machine or releasing methane at volume into your tunnel.
 The planned tunnel is below sea level and sea level rise by 2100 may result in flooding above the tunnel route. This will also be an issue for the 405.
 I do have a certain amount of faith these issues have already been in the planning process and Elon is
to be sure no fool.
 I am attaching an article with some oil well maps for LA.  These are the known ones, there are others.

https://la.curbed.com/2014/7/29/10067206/mapping-all-3000-of-los-angeless-active-oil-wells

Bob, I know everyone loves their big screens, instant communications, and laptops... Maybe some people love precision weponry but I'm not convinced this has resulted in less energy consumption.

 
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: TerryM on May 13, 2017, 07:56:12 PM

Wow Bruce, some maps!Oil wells on oil wells. With tar and gas in between.
If it were anyone other than Eldon I'd assume this was bs. As it is I'm undecided.
Terry
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Bob Wallace on May 13, 2017, 08:14:29 PM
Quote
referring to them being at 90 degrees to the direction of travel, within a streamlined sled. Drive on, drive off & leave your elevator behind

If the cars were short enough (or the tunnel wider) this would make sense. 

Quote
The elevated systems used in China, with maglev

Elevated tracks might be more expensive.  Plus much harder to permit.  Getting routes worked out when the footings have to be put on someone's land can be tough.


Quote
I don't see the utility of the system as presented.

I don't see it as Elon's best idea.  But I am interested in seeing how much they can bring down the cost of tunneling.  Running a Hyperloop from SF to NYC would involve slowing down a lot through mountain ranges (or taking long routes around them).  A ~45 mile tunnel under the Sierras should allow a 'loop to run full speed all the way east to Utah where the next tunnel would open the route to the Rockies.  And on....

Quote
The planned tunnel is below sea level and sea level rise by 2100 may result in flooding above the tunnel route.

Tunnels run under bodies of water.  Chunnel.  SF Bay BART.

I suspect LA will end up getting protected by a seawall where needed.  Unlike Florida the ground is solid enough to permit working seawalls.

Quote
Bob, I know everyone loves their big screens, instant communications, and laptops... Maybe some people love precision weponry but I'm not convinced this has resulted in less energy consumption.

My previous CRT monitor pulled 150 watts.  I'm now using a much larger flat screen that uses 45 watts.  I ditched my desktop and use a netbook hooked to external monitor and wireless keyboard/trackball and I save major watts.  Our technology is, in general, getting a lot more efficient.

Just a cost example.  When I was in high school my family bought our first color TV.  In current dollars they paid about $3,000 for a TV with no remote, a single speaker (no stereo/surround), modest sized screen (19"?) and not very good image quality.

I could now buy a 65" curved screen 4k TV with remote and wifi for $1,200.


Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on May 13, 2017, 08:31:23 PM
The physical and financial obstacles are, without a doubt, profound.  But:

1. Despite the smog and the traffic jams, Los Angelenos love their cars.
2. Mass transit has never caught on in a big way, there.
3. Instead of waiting a decade or two for EVs and computer-controlled traffic to become ubiquitous -- and, short of a diktat -- the "mass transit of cars" might be the one thing that works for them to eliminate congestion and reduce emissions.  It's a way to remove large numbers of ICE cars from the LA highway, and transport them using clean energy to a point near their destination.  No big, expensive subway stations to build, either.  Regardless of how ICE/EV/ride-sharing develops over time, the system can accommodate them all.  The video even includes a mini-bus-like "pod" for walkers and bike riders who need a lift across town. :)
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Bob Wallace on May 13, 2017, 08:50:01 PM
I'm a big subway fan.  I wonder if going to smaller individual cars might be a better solution. 

Imagine going into the station and there are multiple "platforms" where cars with specific destinations are waiting.  At some frequency cars from Station A leave for Station M and from Station A to Station N and Station Z. No stops along the way, just get on the track and go at full speed.

I'm not thinking about the sort of subway systems that run within urban areas, but feeder lines from well outside the city.  I don't know where the traffic patterns are in LA, but let's assume most of it is from the points I picked to downtown.

(https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi619.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ftt275%2FBob_Wall%2FGlobal%2FTransportation%2FHi%2520Speed%2520Subway%2520Boring%2520Inc..jpg&hash=f219383f1bbf7ed2641c75dff16691e4) (http://s619.photobucket.com/user/Bob_Wall/media/Global/Transportation/Hi%20Speed%20Subway%20Boring%20Inc..jpg.html)

It's like other subway systems that have multiple routes but this would be an express system.  No stops between origin and terminus. 

Who's going to drive their own car when they could get in a pod and arrive at their destination in short minutes.  And for less money.

Robotaxis for the last mile(s).
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: gerontocrat on May 13, 2017, 09:18:09 PM
Not so many years ago often the journey was of greater value (on many levels) than the journey. You can keep your sanforised and deodorised tunnels. I, dinosaur, have spoken.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Bob Wallace on May 13, 2017, 09:23:50 PM
Not so many years ago often the journey was of greater value (on many levels) than the journey. You can keep your sanforised and deodorised tunnels. I, dinosaur, have spoken.

I still take journeys like that.  But never in crowded cities.  There is nothing enjoyable (for me) in bumper to bumper congestion.

Actually, I'm really looking forward to self-driving cars so that I can take a nice long scenic drive and watch the scenery rather than the edges of the road and what other drivers are doing.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on May 17, 2017, 12:47:07 PM
Apparently the key is to make the tunnel small, and incorporate an electric sled or a Hyperloop.  :)
Also, keep in mind that mines go much deeper than our tallest buildings.

Elon Musk: All the answers to questions you never asked about holes in the ground https://www.boringcompany.com/faq/ (https://www.boringcompany.com/faq/)

For those who like to read Twitter replies: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/864719823112032256 (https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/864719823112032256)

Quote
To solve the problem of soul-destroying traffic, roads must go 3D, which means either flying cars or tunnels. Unlike flying cars, tunnels are weatherproof, out of sight and won't fall on your head. A large network of road tunnels many levels deep would fix congestion in any city, no matter how large it grew (just keep adding levels). The key to making this work is increasing tunneling speed and dropping costs by a factor of 10 or more – this is the goal of The Boring Company. Fast to dig, low cost tunnels would also make Hyperloop adoption viable and enable rapid transit across densely populated regions, enabling travel from New York to Washington DC in less than 30 minutes
Why tunnels?
To alleviate traffic, transportation corridors, like the buildings that feed into them, must expand into three dimensions. One option is to “go up” with flying cars. However, flying cars have issues with weather, noise, and generally increase anxiety levels of those below them. The other option is to “go down” and build tunnels. The benefits are:

There is no practical limit to how many layers of tunnels can be built, so any level of traffic can be addressed.
Tunnels are weatherproof.
Tunnel construction/operation is silent to anyone on the surface.
Tunnels don’t divide communities with lanes and barriers.
...
What is an electric sled, and why use it?
An electric sled is a flat plate on wheels propelled by an electric motor.  As discussed above, the electric skate allows a large reduction in tunnel diameter, in addition to:

Increased safety. A fully stabilized autonomous vehicle eliminates human error and the ability to “swerve off-course.”
Increased speed. The controlled autonomous sled allows for speeds of 125 miles per hour in urban settings.
Multiple payloads. The electric skate can transport automobiles, goods, and/or people. And if one adds a vacuum shell, it is now a Hyperloop Pod which can travel at 600+ miles per hour.
Eliminating hazardous emissions. Electric sleds are zero-emission vehicles, and thus do not output hazardous gases like internal combustion cars do.  Every mile the sled transports a gas-burning vehicle becomes a zero-emission mile.

What about earthquakes?
Tunnels, when designed properly, are known to be one of the safest places to be during an earthquake. From a structural safety standpoint, the tunnel moves uniformly with the ground, in contrast to surface structures.  Additionally, a large amount of earthquake damage occurs from falling debris, which does not apply inside tunnels. Some examples:

1994 Northridge Earthquake: no damage to LA Subway tunnels
1989 Loma Prieta (Northern California) Earthquake: no damage to tunnels, which were then used to transport rescue personnel
1985 Mexico City Earthquake: no damage to tunnels, which were then used to transport rescue personnel
...
What do you do with all that dirt?
In typical tunneling projects, excavated dirt is shipped offsite to disposal locations. This process is costly, time-consuming, noisy, and can be environmentally hazardous. The Boring Company is investigating technologies that will recycle the earth into useful bricks to be used to build structures.  This is not a new concept, as buildings have been constructed from Earth for thousands of years including, according to recent evidence, the Pyramids.  These bricks can potentially be used as a portion of the tunnel lining itself, which is typically built from concrete. Since concrete production accounts for 4.5% of the world’s greenhouse gas emissions, earth bricks would reduce both environmental impact and tunneling costs.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on May 26, 2017, 09:38:56 PM
The Boring Company website added renderings of the pod to be used in the tunnels when a car is not needed.  Apparently Musk favors this over the "mini-bus" concept he wrote about earlier.
https://www.boringcompany.com/media/ (https://www.boringcompany.com/media/)

Elon Musk’s Boring Company releases new images of its electric vehicle concept for passengers
Quote
...
The vehicle first appeared in the video of the unveiling of Musk’s vision for tunnels in cities.

There were two kinds of “electric sleds” in the video. One without anything on top but a platform in order for cars to park on it before it goes into the tunnels to connect to an electric railing that propels the vehicle.

The other vehicle had a passenger enclosure and unlike the other sled, it has wheels which mean it should be able to drive on the streets too.
...
Earlier this month, we learned that this new electric vehicle is not only just a possible application enabled by the Boring Company’s tunnels, but actually an important part of making the tunnels possible in the first place.

The company aims to reduce the cost of boring tunnels and one of their main ideas to achieve a significant cost reduction is to reduce the diameter – something they think will be possible by stabilizing the vehicles on sleds.

If the vehicle is locked on a rail instead of swerving between two lines, the tunnel’s diameter can be much smaller. Musk estimates that reducing the diameter alone will reduce tunneling costs by 3-4 times.

In a sense, it sounds like this vehicle could also replace Tesla’s planned electric minibus that Musk announced in Tesla’s product lineup last year.

The minibus was supposed to be built on the Model X chassis and feature Tesla’s latest autonomous features in order to enable a point-to-point public transport system, but Musk said earlier this month that he wasn’t so sure “if that’s actually going to be something that makes sense in the shared, fully autonomous environment.”

A higher density of passengers would help for traffic, but Musk thinks that the cost of a fully autonomous shared fleet would be so low that a bus, even if autonomous, wouldn’t be economically attractive anymore.
...
https://electrek.co/2017/05/26/elon-musk-boring-company-electric-skate-concept/ (https://electrek.co/2017/05/26/elon-musk-boring-company-electric-skate-concept/)
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on June 19, 2017, 07:01:18 PM
Elon Musk is optimistic about making his vision for tunnels happen after talks with LA mayor
Quote
While Elon Musk’s project to build networks of tunnels with electric sleds transporting cars and people at high-speed underneath cities is ambitious in itself from a technology standpoint, several naysayers claimed it would be infeasible from a permitting standpoint.

Musk understands the challenge and he went as far as saying that getting “the permits is harder than the technology.”

Nonetheless, he said that he is optimistic about the project after having talked with Los Angeles Mayor Eric Garcetti, who could possibly facilitate such a project.
...
Musk admitted that the odds of success may be low, but he added that the alternative is just to accept to sit in traffic forever....

He also said that they already have the permits to drill in Hawthorne, where they started the first tunnel. Musk has a lot of influence in the small city inside LA county since SpaceX is a major job creator in the area.

Hawthorne is located southwest of downtown Los Angeles – near LAX international airport....
https://electrek.co/2017/06/19/elon-musk-tunnel-boring-los-angeles/
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on June 27, 2017, 09:00:38 PM
O'Hare airport to downtown Chicago, Illinois.

Rahm Emanuel, Elon Musk talk tunnel for O'Hare-downtown high-speed rail
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/politics/ct-rahm-emanuel-elon-musk-high-speed-rail-met-20170626-story.html (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/politics/ct-rahm-emanuel-elon-musk-high-speed-rail-met-20170626-story.html)
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: numerobis on June 27, 2017, 10:55:26 PM
I had thought that the principle cost in subways was the stations, not the tunnels. Is The Boring Company doing anything about that? It seems that their principle cost savings is from making smaller tunnels, and efficiencies from scale of digging a lot of tunnels.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on June 28, 2017, 02:54:12 PM
I had thought that the principle cost in subways was the stations, not the tunnels. Is The Boring Company doing anything about that? It seems that their principle cost savings is from making smaller tunnels, and efficiencies from scale of digging a lot of tunnels.

The concept video, included in this article:
https://www.engadget.com/2017/04/28/elon-musk-wants-to-build-a-traffic-skipping-tunnel-utopia/ (https://www.engadget.com/2017/04/28/elon-musk-wants-to-build-a-traffic-skipping-tunnel-utopia/)
shows cars entering and exiting the tunnels using only a few parking spaces at street level.  No "stations" needed.  :)
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on June 28, 2017, 05:03:57 PM
Well, I'd agree that his communications are cautious -- he always seems to be thinking about much more than he's saying.  (Except for those late-night, Ambien-fueled tweets! ;) )

Elon Musk is the most cautious CEO in tech, according to IBM's supercomputer
http://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/27/elon-musk-is-the-most-cautious-leader-in-tech-according-to-ibm-data.html (http://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/27/elon-musk-is-the-most-cautious-leader-in-tech-according-to-ibm-data.html)
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on June 29, 2017, 01:35:45 AM
Godot is the name of Musk's (first, slow) boring machine.

Elon Musk: No longer waiting for Godot. It has begun boring and just completed the first segment of tunnel in LA.
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/880201464370442240
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on June 29, 2017, 09:11:33 PM
Quote
What are Musk's top five traits? According to the study:

1. Intellect
2. Immoderation
3. Cautiousness
4. Emotionality
5. Altruism
http://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/29/ibm-watson-elon-musks-personality-traits-are-summed-up-by-this-image.html (http://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/29/ibm-watson-elon-musks-personality-traits-are-summed-up-by-this-image.html)
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: crandles on June 30, 2017, 01:19:50 PM
I had thought that the principle cost in subways was the stations, not the tunnels. Is The Boring Company doing anything about that? It seems that their principle cost savings is from making smaller tunnels, and efficiencies from scale of digging a lot of tunnels.

The concept video, included in this article:
https://www.engadget.com/2017/04/28/elon-musk-wants-to-build-a-traffic-skipping-tunnel-utopia/ (https://www.engadget.com/2017/04/28/elon-musk-wants-to-build-a-traffic-skipping-tunnel-utopia/)
shows cars entering and exiting the tunnels using only a few parking spaces at street level.  No "stations" needed.  :)

All those lifts sound/look expensive to me. Either that or traffic jams trying to get to too small a number of entry points. But I know nothing compared to Musk.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on June 30, 2017, 01:42:08 PM
Who thought Musk was kidding about this?  When he started tweeting about "floors" yesterday (”they never let you down") there was speculation about his mental state. ;D  Then this!
(Best guess is the tunnel is at SpaceX in Hawthorne, California, and runs under the street -- where several employees have been injured from cars running red lights -- to the SpaceX parking lot.)

Elon Musk: This is a really great floor.
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/880682010133630976

GIFs at these links:
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/880675074231107584

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/880679414274691073


Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on June 30, 2017, 07:42:52 PM
I had thought that the principle cost in subways was the stations, not the tunnels. Is The Boring Company doing anything about that? It seems that their principle cost savings is from making smaller tunnels, and efficiencies from scale of digging a lot of tunnels.

The concept video, included in this article:
https://www.engadget.com/2017/04/28/elon-musk-wants-to-build-a-traffic-skipping-tunnel-utopia/ (https://www.engadget.com/2017/04/28/elon-musk-wants-to-build-a-traffic-skipping-tunnel-utopia/)
shows cars entering and exiting the tunnels using only a few parking spaces at street level.  No "stations" needed.  :)

All those lifts sound/look expensive to me. Either that or traffic jams trying to get to too small a number of entry points. But I know nothing compared to Musk.

Remember, Musk has data on where all his cars are, and when. ;) (Did you notice that all the cars in the concept video's tunnel were Teslas?  ;D )

But seriously: because all the cars in the tunnels are on computer-controlled sleds, their spacing can quickly be adjusted to fit any number of merging vehicle sleds.  I imagine the program would be simpler than what SpaceX uses to get the Dragon capsule's orbit to safely approach the International Space Station.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on July 20, 2017, 07:54:09 PM
From the Hyperloop thread. :o

Wut?!? 

Elon Musk says he got 'verbal govt' approval for Hyperloop between NY and DC
Elon Musk says The Boring Co. has verbal government approval to build an underground Hyperloop.
The infrastructure and tunneling company would connect four Northeastern cities: New York, Washington, Philadelphia and Baltimore.
Musk plans to begin the East Coast project at the same time as his previously proposed Los Angeles tunneling venture.
http://www.cnbc.com/2017/07/20/elon-musk-says-he-got-verbal-govt-approval-for-hyperloop-between-ny-and-dc.html (http://www.cnbc.com/2017/07/20/elon-musk-says-he-got-verbal-govt-approval-for-hyperloop-between-ny-and-dc.html)

The Tweet:
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/888053175155949572 (https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/888053175155949572)
(Enjoy the replies. ;D )
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Bob Wallace on July 20, 2017, 08:23:27 PM
From the same article...

Quote
Musk cautioned that there is "still a lot of work needed to receive formal approval," even while he is optimistic that a regulatory green light will be given quickly.

Quote
An Amtrak ride on the Northeast Regional line from Washington to New York currently takes three hours and 20 minutes,

Hyperloop, 29 minutes.

If Musk can pull this off it would be a huge game-changer.  I'd love to see his cost numbers. 

And the average boring speed for his drilling machines.  He talks about a dozen or so stations along the NYC to DC route.  Would Tesla use a number of machines and insert one (or two) at each station site?  A swarm of drills that could be extracted and reused could make digging one route fast.

Currently large drilling rigs finish their tunnel and then bury themselves in a permanent grave.  Tesla might take a more SpaceX 'recover and reuse' approach in order to greatly slash costs.

An advantage to smaller diameter tunnels is that the drilling rigs would be small enough to be trucked from site to site.  Put them (in sections) on a lowboy and 14' minimum underpasses would be no problem.

Very high speed subway.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on July 22, 2017, 03:27:47 AM
Elon Musk: Discussing physics of tunnels with Mayor Vargas (who has a physics background). Hawthorne support for The Boring Company much appreciated.
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/888541666122113024

More photos in the sub-tweet.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on July 25, 2017, 12:31:58 PM
Elon Musk: Often comes as a surprise when people learn that 80% of my time is on engineering/design and just 20% on other stuff
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/889736220116254721 (https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/889736220116254721)

Why Elon Musk Spends 80 Percent of His Time on This 1 Activity
Quote
He is a designer at heart.

Elon Musk is doing right by design. Musk, who in a recent interview on Y Combinator, often called world's #1 start-up incubator, explained that he spends 80% of his time on engineering and design, developing next generation products, is what I call a designers' CEO.

Musk's optimism in the face of great odds (SpaceX, the company he founded "to revolutionize space technology," had a 10% chance of success at the onset); his belief that beauty is as important as usefulness of products (from the Tesla door handles to his more recent aspiration to bring aesthetics to SolarCity tiles); his strong sense of empathy for others (feeling for every parent who ever put a child's seats into a minivan whichled to Tesla's falcon wing doors); and the humanity with which he goes after what designers call "wicked problems" (i.e. multiplanetary habitation); make him if not a designer, a rare and much welcome enabler of ground-breaking design.
...
4. Understanding humans

Perhaps what makes Musk a designers' CEO most is his capacity for empathy. Empathy, the ability to put yourself in the shoes of others and feel their pain, is design's guiding principle. Everything that Musk does, from creating affordable solar energy to the Boring Company to bring cities closer to each other, are because he cares deeply about people. Musk is an advocate for people and aims to remove longstanding obstacles from our lives using design and engineering. ...
https://www.inc.com/ayse-birsel/why-elon-musk-spends-80-percent-of-his-time-on-thi.html (https://www.inc.com/ayse-birsel/why-elon-musk-spends-80-percent-of-his-time-on-thi.html)
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on July 26, 2017, 12:43:06 PM
Hawthorne, California.  SpaceX headquarters. ~15 second video:

Elon Musk: Testing The Boring Company car elevator:   https://www.instagram.com/p/BW_-mlYAMrs/ (https://www.instagram.com/p/BW_-mlYAMrs/)

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/890096103135358982 (https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/890096103135358982)


By the way, SpaceX is also building a pedestrian bridge to alleviate the risk of crossing Crenshaw Boulevard there.
SpaceX constructs pedestrian bridge in response to traffic collisions
http://www.teslarati.com/spacex-bridge/ (http://www.teslarati.com/spacex-bridge/)

Edit: article:  https://electrek.co/2017/07/26/elon-musks-boring-company-new-car-elevator-tesla-model-s/ (https://electrek.co/2017/07/26/elon-musks-boring-company-new-car-elevator-tesla-model-s/)
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on August 09, 2017, 02:25:45 AM
Transcript of Boring Company meeting with Hawthorne city council about their test projects, explaining their safety procedures, including contacting all utilities, continual measurements for ground settling (they expect less than half an inch/13 mm), and continual tests for gas.  "They aim to have no impact at the surface by digging just about 20 feet (6 meters) in the ground" -- inspectors could not detect activity above the digging site.

Elon Musk’s Boring Company to use Tesla’s technology for its tunnel project under LA
https://electrek.co/2017/08/08/elon-musk-boring-company-tesla-tunnel/ (https://electrek.co/2017/08/08/elon-musk-boring-company-tesla-tunnel/)

From the comments: text of the transcript can be found here:
https://disq.us/url?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2FBoringCompany%2Fcomments%2F6rj3py%2Fhawthorne_city_council_special_meeting_on_the%2Fdl60p2a%2F%3ApJcMS-yrh-FIe7AvbzDCiiNhkDg&cuid=4193136 (https://disq.us/url?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2FBoringCompany%2Fcomments%2F6rj3py%2Fhawthorne_city_council_special_meeting_on_the%2Fdl60p2a%2F%3ApJcMS-yrh-FIe7AvbzDCiiNhkDg&cuid=4193136)
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: ghoti on August 09, 2017, 04:09:43 PM
I found it odd that he claimed no vibration would be felt just 20ish feet above at ground level. They've been digging a tunnel under downtown Ottawa the last few years deeper than that and there were many complaints of terrible vibrations in the buildings above. Different substrate and digging techniques but still seems over stated.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on August 09, 2017, 05:13:12 PM
I found it odd that he claimed no vibration would be felt just 20ish feet above at ground level. They've been digging a tunnel under downtown Ottawa the last few years deeper than that and there were many complaints of terrible vibrations in the buildings above. Different substrate and digging techniques but still seems over stated.

Size of that tunnel?  Musk's tunnels are smaller than most.

From the Hawthorne Council meeting transcript:
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on August 09, 2017, 05:23:12 PM
The Boring Company confirms that it will develop its own Hyperloop tech
Quote
Following closely on the heels of rumors that Elon Musk was pursuing development of his own Hyperloop technology, a spokesperson for the Musk-backed The Boring Company has confirmed plans to build a 600+mph high speed transportation system “aka Hyperloop”. In a statement to Wired, the spokesperson revealed that The Boring Company was indeed exploring the development of tunnels and related infrastructure that would allow for two different types of transport.

“At the Boring Company, we plan to build low-cost, fast-to-dig tunnels that will house new high-speed transportation systems. Most will be standard pressurized tunnels with electric skates going 125+ mph. For long-distance routes in straight lines, such as NY to DC, it will make sense to use pressurized pods in a depressurized tunnel to allow speeds up to approximately 600+ mph (aka Hyperloop).”
http://www.teslarati.com/elon-musk-the-boring-company-will-develop-hyperloop-technology/ (http://www.teslarati.com/elon-musk-the-boring-company-will-develop-hyperloop-technology/)

When things are moving too slowly for you (or the planet)....
Although this will worry the existing hyperloop companies, it should reassure investors that Musk Means Business.  The odds of these new transportation systems becoming reality just received a major boost.  Get on board!  8)
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Bob Wallace on August 09, 2017, 07:23:04 PM
I want to hear some numbers on cost per mile and time to dig a mile of tunnel.  How long would it take to construct a NYC to DC tunnel? 
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on August 09, 2017, 11:31:18 PM
I want to hear some numbers on cost per mile and time to dig a mile of tunnel.  How long would it take to construct a NYC to DC tunnel?

Their current testing in Hawthorne is for the purpose of learning how to dig safely, and to determine how they can improve the process -- and the boring machine itself -- and dig faster than Gary the Snail can move.  Even they don't have those numbers yet. ;)  You are asking for Boring Model S specs, while they are still trying to build the Roadster. :)
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Bob Wallace on August 09, 2017, 11:55:51 PM
I want the boring Model Y price and the Model 3  Ludicrous mode 0 to 60 time.

Greedy and impatient, I am....
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Archimid on August 10, 2017, 02:48:47 AM
I bet that boring machine will eventually be small enough to go to Mars. It will probably be mostly automated and with ridiculously low power requirements.  By finding a good use for a small and fast boring machine on Earth Elon can significantly reduce the cost and even make money developing the Mars Boring Machine.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Bob Wallace on August 10, 2017, 03:43:29 AM
I bet that boring machine will eventually be small enough to go to Mars. It will probably be mostly automated and with ridiculously low power requirements.  By finding a good use for a small and fast boring machine on Earth Elon can significantly reduce, even make money, developing the Mars Boring Machine.

In a harsh environment it makes sense to go underground.  Solar panels on the surface.  Food production underground under lights.  Moderate heating/cooling needs. 

If there's a way to geo-engineer Mars so that it supports some sort of flora that's probably a very long term project, establishing a new atmosphere and that sort of thing. 

We may need boring machines here on Earth if we don't get our carbon act together.  We may evolve into mole people....
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: crandles on August 10, 2017, 10:03:32 AM
Morlocks well before 802701 AD ?
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Bob Wallace on August 10, 2017, 09:00:54 PM
Boring has approached the Hawthorne city council to get permission to dig a two mile tunnel under a city street.  This would be the next step in testing out their boring machine.  And (while they didn't say anything) should provide a test tunnel for their car sleds or Hyperloop.  Cost and time to dig were not made public.

https://www.teslarati.com/boring-company-city-council-construction/ (https://www.teslarati.com/boring-company-city-council-construction/)

One end of the tunnel is very close to the Hawthorne airport and Tesla, SpaceX, and Boring headquarters.  If you extend the tunnel west you end up close to LA International.

And the beach.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on August 11, 2017, 03:42:25 AM
Boring has approached the Hawthorne city council to get permission to dig a two mile tunnel under a city street.  This would be the next step in testing out their boring machine.  And (while they didn't say anything) should provide a test tunnel for their car sleds or Hyperloop.  Cost and time to dig were not made public.

https://www.teslarati.com/boring-company-city-council-construction/ (https://www.teslarati.com/boring-company-city-council-construction/)

One end of the tunnel is very close to the Hawthorne airport and Tesla, SpaceX, and Boring headquarters.  If you extend the tunnel west you end up close to LA International.

And the beach.

IIRC, they said something about 8 months.  Their philosophy is to "fail fast, fix fast" -- and they will assume all risks for any damage that might occur.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: crandles on August 11, 2017, 02:50:53 PM
Boring has approached the Hawthorne city council to get permission to dig a two mile tunnel under a city street.  This would be the next step in testing out their boring machine.  And (while they didn't say anything) should provide a test tunnel for their car sleds or Hyperloop.  Cost and time to dig were not made public.

https://www.teslarati.com/boring-company-city-council-construction/ (https://www.teslarati.com/boring-company-city-council-construction/)

One end of the tunnel is very close to the Hawthorne airport and Tesla, SpaceX, and Boring headquarters.  If you extend the tunnel west you end up close to LA International.

And the beach.

IIRC, they said something about 8 months.  Their philosophy is to "fail fast, fix fast" -- and they will assume all risks for any damage that might occur.

Pretty good recall  ;)

Quote
Once we cross our property line and
go into the public right of way, we think it's
going to take us eight months to finish the
tunnel. We don't have a set tim will want to
test as quickly and as reliably as possible so
success will come quickly. We don't move
slowly, that's why we're here, and we will
continuously iterate. We like to failfast and
continuously improve. Success will come
very quickly. I think it will be, won't put an
exact timeline on it other than to say: it's
going to be very fast

>"And (while they didn't say anything) should provide a test tunnel for their car sleds or Hyperloop."

Quote
the way the concrete
segments are designed to basically make
them waterproof it's very easy to make them
a vacuum we could at some point in the
future, create a hyperloop out of this, but
that's not what we're testing in this tunnel is
it a potential idea sometime in the future,
sure But is that what we're doing now? no


Quote
Brett success at first will actually getting the
tunnel done, showing people that we can do
this. Success for the test portion of the
tunnel will be understanding the true
performance specifications and what the
machine can do. Understanding where we
can improve that for future tunnel boring
machines and future tunnelling projects, and
also laying the groundwork to prove the
technology that we're developing for the
skates Because we know it's going to
operate a little bit differently in a tunnel
verses on the street, so taking what we're
designing, some of which is proprietary; we
won't give away the secret sauce, then
proving that in the tunnel and showing that
we do it safely, reliably and for a significant
cost saving to traditional projects

Quote
and also test and
prove out the transportation system, so to
speak very quickly about how the
transportation system works and how we're
going to be testing in this tunnel is it's based
on Tesla technology. We all know about
autonomous driving and the capabilities
we've seen demonstrated in various videos.
We're going to be using that technology, but
instead of an enclosed Tesla, it's going to
be an electric skate, so imagine the
drivetrain of a Models with a flat platform on
top of it, where cars can drive on, turn off
and drive through the system. In this tunnel,
we won't be putting any cars. One of the
critical things to understand today is that
we'll be testing the skate, and we'll be
testing the technology. This is not meant to
be a tunnel that's inhabited by people, and
it's actually not meant to transport cars or
people through the tunnel. It is just a test
tunnel
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: crandles on August 11, 2017, 03:34:25 PM
I thought it was surprising that there was very little discussion of:

a) how the machine was going to be altered if at all. If the boring front end was staying the same and they intend to add wall building automation behind it, perhaps that doesn't need going into such detail and possible proprietary information planning. However if they were going to do anything to improve the boring front end, I would have expected questions about this or assurances that they wouldn't make any such changes.

b) What happens afterwards. There seemed little to no discussion of how long development activities might continue in the tunnel or of whether there might ever be a requirement to refill the tunnel, or more likely maintain a register of the existence of the tunnel so that any utility that might want to plan some work would be able to find out details of exactly where the tunnel is. Perhaps there is already some system(s) that deals with that sort of thing, already accepted, such that no questions needed to be asked.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: ghoti on August 11, 2017, 06:31:01 PM
You seem to have very high expectations of a city council's power of foresight and insight. They mostly spend their time approving developer's projects. For them the most important words were "this won't cost you anything and might lead to great things in the future" "trust me"
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: crandles on August 11, 2017, 08:21:26 PM
You seem to have very high expectations of a city council's power of foresight and insight. They mostly spend their time approving developer's projects. For them the most important words were "this won't cost you anything and might lead to great things in the future" "trust me"

Make that less of the "trust me", and more of the
Quote
The other thing we want to clear up is we are not
asking the city of Hawthorne to assume any
risk the Boring company is assuming that
risk if we break something, we will fix it.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Ken Feldman on August 11, 2017, 08:24:45 PM
Tunnel boring machines typically make 50 to 60 feet per day on average.  They can mine 100+ feet on a good day, but there are often times that they are down for maintenance.  At typical rates, it would take 3 to 4 months to go a mile.  That's assuming everything goes well, which it typically doesn't on a tunneling job.  You also need to dig the pit to launch the tunneling machine, which can take several months.

Much of the vibration for tunneling comes from the small rail cars (called locos) that shuttle equipment, including the pre-cast concrete rings that line the tunnel as it is bored, from the launch pit to the cutter head.  It's somewhat deceptive to claim there is no vibration felt from a TBM unless you do the measurements when the conveyor belts bringing the dirt from the tunnel to the tail end of the TBM and the locos are running.

And tunnels are pretty expensive to drill.  A TBM will cost about $10 million and take about a year to build.  They are generally good for about 5 miles before needing a major overhaul in softer soils.  In hard rock, it would be much less.  And you have to pay the crews (assume two shifts per day), run the ventilation equipment, fuel for all of the machinery, etc... 

Basically, supplying the international space station in low earth orbit under government contracts is probably a less risky business venture than trying to build a hyperloop tunnel from New York City to Washington, DC.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Bob Wallace on August 11, 2017, 08:48:11 PM
Boring is boring much smaller diameter tunnels so feet per day averages from other tunnels won't apply.

If you look at the size of the Boring machine it wouldn't take months to dig an entry hole.  I'd say a short number of days.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: crandles on August 11, 2017, 08:54:24 PM
It's somewhat deceptive to claim there is no vibration felt from a TBM unless you do the measurements when the conveyor belts bringing the dirt from the tunnel to the tail end of the TBM and the locos are running.

Quote
It was kind of funny, a few days ago one of
your Public Works inspectors was actually
on-site at the tunneling to test noise, to
understand do you feel vibrations, do you
hear this machine when it's activate, we
stood at the back of the launch shaft and
waited until we saw the dirt coming out and
then we walked to the parking lot to where
we were standing over roughly where the
machine was going. You didn't hear it you
could put your hand on the parking lot, you
didn't feel the vibration and it was a 14 foot
(2.4m) machine spinning and chewing dirt
any other information we can provide, we'd
be very happy to provide. We still hope that
you'll come out as see it we'll do that same
test, you'll be standing above it running, the
dirt moving equipment that's on the lot and
the crane and the compressor that provides
air to the shaft, actually makes more noise
than the tunnel boring machine in it.

No mention of locos for transporting concrete wall sections, but seems conveyors were running. They seem quite up front about crane and compressor being noisier.

Not sure deceptive is the right word if they are saying about what happened and everything that was going on. But perhaps still slightly misleading if there is no mention of locos that are likely to be noisiest activity hearable/feelable above the drilling?
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: crandles on August 11, 2017, 09:17:42 PM
Boring is boring much smaller diameter tunnels so feet per day averages from other tunnels won't apply.

If you look at the size of the Boring machine it wouldn't take months to dig an entry hole.  I'd say a short number of days.

From Wiki
Quote
As of February 2017, the company has begun digging a 30-foot-wide (9 m), 50-foot-long (15 m), and 15-foot-deep (4.6 m) testing trench

Quote
At the end of April 2017, a TBM was seen at SpaceX with the company's name on the side.

Given that they have already drilled to the edge of their property (350 feet), several months does seem a little excessive, I doubt they have proceeded as fast as they could if they were already fully knowledgeable about what they are doing and besides they have also done car elevator and doubtless other work.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on August 11, 2017, 10:37:20 PM
Handy map.  :)  Green initial test tunnel has been completed.  Red is the 2-mile tunnel under discussion.

All of the above-ground work/noise/dust will be on SpaceX property, except for the system keeping an eye on earth-movement/-settlement/utilities -- which is already in place along the route.

https://electrek.co/2017/08/08/elon-musk-boring-company-tesla-tunnel/
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Bob Wallace on August 12, 2017, 01:18:15 AM
Just some crayon/lunch bag math.

226 miles from NYC to Washington DC.  1,193,280 feet.

Assume Boring can speed things up and average 100 feet per day that would mean 11,933 drilling days.  33 drilling years.

Or one year if they used 33 drilling rigs.  (66 since two tubes would be needed to "loop".)

These tunneling machines should be reusable unlike the monster ones that do their drilling and then bury themselves below the tunnel they've dug.

There's some interesting info about how Boring thinks they can lower cost and increase boring speed on this page...

https://www.boringcompany.com/faq/ (https://www.boringcompany.com/faq/)

I especially liked this bit -

Quote
In typical tunneling projects, excavated dirt is shipped offsite to disposal locations. This process is costly, time-consuming, noisy, and can be environmentally hazardous. The Boring Company is investigating technologies that will recycle the earth into useful bricks to be used to build structures. 
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Ken Feldman on August 12, 2017, 02:07:12 AM
Boring is boring much smaller diameter tunnels so feet per day averages from other tunnels won't apply.

If you look at the size of the Boring machine it wouldn't take months to dig an entry hole.  I'd say a short number of days.

From Wiki
Quote
As of February 2017, the company has begun digging a 30-foot-wide (9 m), 50-foot-long (15 m), and 15-foot-deep (4.6 m) testing trench

Quote
At the end of April 2017, a TBM was seen at SpaceX with the company's name on the side.

Given that they have already drilled to the edge of their property (350 feet), several months does seem a little excessive, I doubt they have proceeded as fast as they could if they were already fully knowledgeable about what they are doing and besides they have also done car elevator and doubtless other work.

They started work on the launch pit in January and installed the TBM in May.  That's four months just to get started.  Musk tweeted that the first segment of the tunnel was complete on June 29th.  There were no details about how long the segment was.  If we assume that it's the 350 feet you mention in the quote above, that's a month to go 350 feet, or 12 feet a day.  That's about right for a TBM and crew working up to speed on a new tunneling project.

In another another article, Boring's representative estimates that it will take 8 months to bore the 2 mile long test tunnel in Hawthorne. 

Quote
Horton also told the council members that the tunneling process, which should take just eight months, would prove the company can build “safely, reliably, and for significant cost savings to traditional tunneling projects.”
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on August 12, 2017, 02:18:47 AM
"Table from bricks made after soil is removed during tunnel boring. #recycle #nowaste #cool #boring @TheBoringComp"
https://twitter.com/mayemusk/status/867809393311600640
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Bob Wallace on August 12, 2017, 02:19:36 AM
You're confusing digging their first entry pit with the speed they might be drilling tunnels once they've traveled a little way down the learning curve.

Musk thinks that once they've started 'for real' drilling they can go at least twice as fast as other tunnels are drilled. 

Is he right?  He usually is, he's got facts and does good math.  He's done pretty good with a whole bunch of projects (Paypal, Tesla, SpaceX).  He's got the money to bring smart people onboard to help him suss things out in addition to his own particular strengths.

Time will tell, but at this point in history betting against Musk is not a good idea.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on August 12, 2017, 02:56:15 AM
Just some crayon/lunch bag math.

226 miles from NYC to Washington DC.  1,193,280 feet.

Assume Boring can speed things up and average 100 feet per day that would mean 11,933 drilling days.  33 drilling years.

Or one year if they used 33 drilling rigs.  (66 since two tubes would be needed to "loop".)

These tunneling machines should be reusable unlike the monster ones that do their drilling and then bury themselves below the tunnel they've dug.

<snip>

At first, that seems like too ridiculous a number of TBMs to even consider.  But once they've taken what they've learned from digging their test tunnels, and designed a new, faster-better-cheaper tunnel boring machine (“You know engineers, they love to change things,” ;) ), Musk’s newfound obsession with “The machine that builds the machine,” will take over and they’ll be building dozens of those puppies in no time.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Bob Wallace on August 12, 2017, 03:04:40 AM
I suspect that is correct.  Once they dig one tunnel system for a month/year then they can be hauled on a truck to a new site.  Properly designed they should be usable for many years by simply replacing the parts that wear out.

Drop a swarm of machines into one project.  Get it up and producing revenue in a year/whatever and move to the next project. 
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: etienne on August 12, 2017, 09:05:22 AM
Just some crayon/lunch bag math.

226 miles from NYC to Washington DC.  1,193,280 feet.

Assume Boring can speed things up and average 100 feet per day that would mean 11,933 drilling days.  33 drilling years.

Or one year if they used 33 drilling rigs.  (66 since two tubes would be needed to "loop".)


All these miles don't have to be underground. It would be interesting to see the cost difference between the underground and the over the ground solution. Underground might be mainly interesting in urban areas.

This is a little bit like the Suez/Panama canal story. Suez was a success, but Panama took a long time to be finished and the initial company went bankrupt. Going along the coast is a good idea, I guess the crossing of the rocky mountains is for a far future.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: crandles on August 12, 2017, 04:03:54 PM
No mention of locos for transporting concrete wall sections, but seems conveyors were running. They seem quite up front about crane and compressor being noisier.

Not sure deceptive is the right word if they are saying about what happened and everything that was going on. But perhaps still slightly misleading if there is no mention of locos that are likely to be noisiest activity hearable/feelable above the drilling?

Maybe not so misleading:
https://www.boringcompany.com/faq/ (https://www.boringcompany.com/faq/)
Quote
Go electric. Current tunnel operations often include diesel locomotives. These can be replaced by electric vehicles

re: Increase TBM power. The machine’s power output can be tripled (while coupled with the appropriate upgrades in cooling systems).

What effect does tripling power have on speed?

Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on August 12, 2017, 06:08:03 PM
To judge by the map in #80 above, the machines can dig in a fairly tight turn.  So, one entry-tunnel, in an out-of-the-way place, could start both a southbound tunnel segment and a second machine, after making a 180° turn, the northbound one.  The tunnel could progress in long "loops," not just straight lines.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: TerryM on August 12, 2017, 06:33:37 PM
Just some crayon/lunch bag math.

226 miles from NYC to Washington DC.  1,193,280 feet.

Assume Boring can speed things up and average 100 feet per day that would mean 11,933 drilling days.  33 drilling years.

Or one year if they used 33 drilling rigs.  (66 since two tubes would be needed to "loop".)


All these miles don't have to be underground. It would be interesting to see the cost difference between the underground and the over the ground solution. Underground might be mainly interesting in urban areas.

This is a little bit like the Suez/Panama canal story. Suez was a success, but Panama took a long time to be finished and the initial company went bankrupt. Going along the coast is a good idea, I guess the crossing of the rocky mountains is for a far future.


I concur. It took decades to finish the Interstate Highway System because of holdups in California and Utah. When they were mining Iron Mountain on the California/Nevada border babies were being born with no brains. The town has been buried, but locals know better than to dig holes in that formation.


Terry
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Bob Wallace on August 12, 2017, 06:35:53 PM
Quote
What effect does tripling power have on speed?

My guess is that if the TBM (Tunnel Boring Machine) has more power it can use a more aggressive "bit" or push harder against the face of the bore in order to remove more material with each rotation. 

It also may be able to move more material per unit time from the face of the bore to the system that removes the dirt.

Did you pick up on what he says here -

Quote
A snail is effectively 14 times faster than a soft-soil TBM.  Our goal is to defeat the snail in a race.

I read that as Boring is setting a goal of going more than 14x as fast as current tunnel boring machines in soft soil.  If they can achieve anything like that then that would mean, using Ken's information of 50' to 60' average per day for typical tunneling, 700' to 1,000' (?) per day.

Something like that would be incredible.  A mile a week in soft soil. 

Musk is very hard to believe at times.  But he is landing rockets and reusing them among the other things he's talked about and delivered.

Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: jai mitchell on August 12, 2017, 06:39:09 PM

What effect does tripling power have on speed?

cubed root of 3
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: crandles on August 12, 2017, 08:43:32 PM
Quote
He plans to use a machine like this to test improvements in tunneling technology. He thinks that with more power, better materials, and a design that allows it to continue digging while installing the tunnel walls—a feat that’s impossible today—the Boring Company will be able to drastically reduce the price of digging. “To make it a little better should be easy,” he says. “To make it five times better is not crazy hard. To make it 10 times better is hard, but nobody will need to win a Nobel Prize. We don’t have to change the standard model of physics.”

As we walk through the machine, Musk and Davis pepper the tunnel’s project manager, Shane Yanagisawa, with questions. They ask about grouting materials and staffing, but mostly about speed. Yanagisawa says the limiting factor is muck. Nannie’s conveyor belts can carry only so much dirt at a time. The fastest he thinks the machine can possibly run is 75 millimeters per minute. In a typical week, it moves through 300 feet of clay.

Musk nods. “We’re trying to dramatically increase the tunneling speed,” he says. “We want to know what it would take to get to a mile a week? Could it be possible?”

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2017-02-16/elon-musk-is-really-boring (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2017-02-16/elon-musk-is-really-boring)

that dates to 16th Feb 2017

"A snail is effectively 14 times faster than a soft-soil TBM. Our goal is to defeat the snail in a race."
seems to be said around 17th May 2017

Isn't toning it down over those 3 months. Will be interesting to see if this mile a week continues to be the target and whether he gets anywhere close.

.

"cube root of 3" interesting is that forward speed increase? Why cube root? (I could understand square root as being 2 dimensions of tunnel being dug compared to direction of travel of the machine or some relationship between area of tunnel to area of earth being moved away.)
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Bob Wallace on August 12, 2017, 09:37:11 PM
I don't think we can make a lot of sense using the "cubic root of 3".

You can put a lot more power on the spinning end but if the bits can't hold up to the increased force or the dirt removal system can't remove the spoils fast enough then the additional power won't pay off.

Five times better would be a crazy improvement.  Fishing out my favorite colored crayon and redoing my math...

226 miles from NYC to Washington DC.  1,193,280 feet.

Assume Boring can speed things up and average 250 feet (5 x 50') per day that would mean 4,773 drilling days.  13 drilling years.

Or one year if they used 13 drilling rigs.  (26 since two tubes would be needed to "loop".)

Take Sigmet's idea and you need only 6-7 entry holes.  Each could serve four TBMs (two tunnels, north and south).  Surface disruption could be minimized.  Material delivery and spoils removal would be centralized for four TBMs.  They'd need only 6-7 big power drops to provide the needed electricity.

This is becoming so damned interesting....

Spoils removal.  "30" foot electric powered conveyor belts on wheels. Slightly inclined front to back so belt A dumps on belt B which, in turn, dumps on belt C.  As the TBM moves forward just add conveyor belt cars as needed.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on August 12, 2017, 10:35:24 PM
"This is becoming so damned interesting...."

LOL.  I totally agree.  No wonder that Musk, even with everything else he has on his plate, couldn't just sit back and wait for someone else to move forward with this. ;D
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Tor Bejnar on August 13, 2017, 01:23:34 AM
'Wish I had a billion dollars!   :P ::)
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on August 13, 2017, 06:32:17 PM
'Wish I had a billion dollars!   :P ::)

Well, a billion dollars plus a mindset of: 

“I don’t care if you say it’s impossible.  We’re going to do it anyway.”

“Of course there’s a good chance we will fail.  But this needs to be done, for the planet.” 

“When you’re going through hell — keep going.”

“Anything beyond five years is infinity.”
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Tor Bejnar on August 13, 2017, 06:35:46 PM
Yeah, okay. Thanks for the "reality check", Sigmetnow.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Bob Wallace on August 13, 2017, 08:01:26 PM
'Wish I had a billion dollars!   :P ::)

Well, a billion dollars plus a mindset of: 

“I don’t care if you say it’s impossible.  We’re going to do it anyway.”

“Of course there’s a good chance we will fail.  But this needs to be done, for the planet.” 

“When you’re going through hell — keep going.”

“Anything beyond five years is infinity.”

Or -

"Well, it does look impossible in terms of how it's been attempted before.  Let's take out a clean sheet of paper and see if we can imagine something that might work."

"Of course we might fail.  If we do we'll try to figure out how to not fail on our next attempt."

"When you're going through hell - keep going if heaven is right ahead."

"Infinity?  That brand may go extinct in five years if they don't develop a good EV."
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Bob Wallace on August 25, 2017, 08:54:43 PM
Looks like Boring Company received permission from the Hawthorne city council to go ahead with their test tunnel under city streets.  They will still need to pull permits but that's technical and not political stuff.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on August 25, 2017, 09:25:25 PM
Elon Musk’s Boring Company receives green light to extend 2-mile long tunnel under LA
Quote
Earlier this month, Elon Musk’s Boring Company presented the second phase of its tunnel at a special meeting of the Hawthorne city council.

We now learn that they have approved the plan and the startup can start extending its tunnel.

Hawthorn’s Daily Breeze reported:

“The City Council approved the two-mile underground track Tuesday night in a 4-1 vote, with only Councilman Nilo Michelin dissenting.”

As we previously reported, the second phase would link the tunnel entrance and 160-ft first phase of the tunnel under SpaceX’s parking lot to a new 2- mile (3.2 km) long tunnel under 120th street all the way to Hawthorne Boulevard.

Here’s a visual representation of where the Boring Company wants to dig based on the plans submitted to the city: [se below]

They will dig the tunnel at a depth of 44 feet and said not to expect to see any construction or disturbance at the ground level.

The company will use its first boring machine (Godot), which they want to improve on during the making of this tunnel.

Brett Horton, Senior Director of Facilities and Construction for both SpaceX and Boring Company, said during the presentation to the council:

“It is a research and development tunnel meant for us to learn about our tunneling machine (Godot), understand the technology and where we can improve it, and also test and prove out the transportation system.”

He explained that Boring Company will use Tesla’s technology for its transportation system in the tunnel – a sort of electric skate platform to transport cars autonomously in the tunnel.

While it’s still only in development, the ultimate goal of the project is to create an entire network of tunnels under LA to alleviate the traffic.

They plan for drivers to pull up on those platforms and be transported at higher speeds than on surface roads.

Musk hopes that after the test tunnel, they will connect with LAX to dig up to Culver City, Santa Monica, Westwood and Sherman Oaks. He is reportedly working with the Mayor of Los Angeles on the project.

In other projects for longer distances, the Boring Company is actually thinking about creating a vacuum in the tunnels to turn them into a hyperloop system. Musk says that the company is already working on one between New York and Washington DC.

SpaceX is going to be holding its second hyperloop pod competition this weekend at their test track near their headquarters.
https://electrek.co/2017/08/25/elon-musk-boring-company-green-light-2-mile-long-tunnel-under-la/
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Bob Wallace on August 25, 2017, 09:38:46 PM
The better plan, IMHO, is to have drivers pull up to parking lots (or arrive in their robotaxi) and travel down to a superfast, 100+ MPH, 'express' subway car that takes them to their destination without stops along the way.  Then get into a robotaxi at the other end if they need to travel 'off foot'.

Moving personal cars into crowded areas where parking is already a problem makes less sense.  Even if they get there quickly.

I guess if Boring drills car tunnels they can be converted to mass transit later.  Let rich people pay for the first set of tunnels and the early part of the learning curve.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on August 25, 2017, 09:50:10 PM
The better plan, IMHO, is to have drivers pull up to parking lots (or arrive in their robotaxi) and travel down to a superfast, 100+ MPH, 'express' subway car that takes them to their destination without stops along the way.  Then get into a robotaxi at the other end if they need to travel 'off foot'.

Moving personal cars into crowded areas where parking is already a problem makes less sense.  Even if they get there quickly.

I guess if Boring drills car tunnels they can be converted to mass transit later.  Let rich people pay for the first set of tunnels and the early part of the learning curve.

That's what the little pods are for -- just a more user-friendly size than a big subway car.  (Also bicycle-friendly, to judge by the picture.)  Smaller passenger groups mean (most?) everyone gets to their destination without intervening stops.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Bob Wallace on August 25, 2017, 11:18:51 PM
Too few.  Let's see a system that moves a lot of people in a hurry. 

Fire off a pod every minute with each holding 30 or more people during rush hours.  30 people 2x per minute for 30 minutes would get 1,800 people to work in a half hour.  A few tunnels, carefully located could take thousands of cars off roads.

Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on August 26, 2017, 12:08:20 AM
Too few.  Let's see a system that moves a lot of people in a hurry. 

Fire off a pod every minute with each holding 30 or more people during rush hours.  30 people 2x per minute for 30 minutes would get 1,800 people to work in a half hour.  A few tunnels, carefully located could take thousands of cars off roads.

I doubt you could find 30 or more people all going to the same destination from the same entryway within a minute.  Another benefit of van-size pods is: the tunnel entryway can be as small as a parking space or two, as shown in the video.  They don't need a big subway station.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Bob Wallace on August 26, 2017, 12:28:21 AM
Might want to ride some subways in a large city.  Watch how many people get off in the financial district stop, for example.  Here's how a LA Downtown system might look.

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4323/35280420913_a144f2f22b_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/VKBnZc)

Imagine an underground station with 10 platforms.  With a pod leaving every 30 seconds that's five minutes to load a pod.  Subway trains do not stop that long and riders often have to push their way off and on crowded cars.

Each platform could have an elevator that held a full pod of people. 

Take a load down just before the pod arrives so that they are lined up ready to go.  (Four across seating loading from one side?  Use guide ropes to get people all lined up.

A pod pulls in, opens and lets people out.  Then pulls forward one length to load those waiting on the platform.  The people who arrived ride the elevator up and get swapped out for the next load.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on August 26, 2017, 06:55:56 PM
Might want to ride some subways in a large city.  Watch how many people get off in the financial district stop, for example.  Here's how a LA Downtown system might look.

<picture snipped>

Imagine an underground station with 10 platforms.  With a pod leaving every 30 seconds that's five minutes to load a pod.  Subway trains do not stop that long and riders often have to push their way off and on crowded cars.

Each platform could have an elevator that held a full pod of people. 

Take a load down just before the pod arrives so that they are lined up ready to go.  (Four across seating loading from one side?  Use guide ropes to get people all lined up.

A pod pulls in, opens and lets people out.  Then pulls forward one length to load those waiting on the platform.  The people who arrived ride the elevator up and get swapped out for the next load.

That would be a huge station, indeed!  All carved out beneath center city Los Angeles?  It would be a massive project, and with structural concerns much more extensive than a 14-foot diameter tunnel would have.  Maybe someday!  But Musk’s paper recommends longer routes, hundreds of miles, for the hyperloop in California.

However….  Central LA, to Simi Valley is only 35 miles; to Long Beach, only 20 miles.  At the projected 125 mph, Musk’s “skate” idea would take only a few minutes longer than a full-on hyperloop.  Plus, the small “skate” entrances and exits mean there could be multiple downtown destinations, instead of one giant hyperloop station in the middle of the city.  You’d enter or exit the system closer to your origin/destination, with less need for street transportation.  The goal is to take cars off downtown streets, as well as unclogging the highways — particularly at the end of the day, when everyone leaves the office at about the same time.

Scheduling your trip via an app would allow computers to assign you (and fellow travelers to your destination) a little pod which will arrive at a particular entryway at a particular time, making most efficient use of the system.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Bob Wallace on August 26, 2017, 07:16:55 PM
I'm not suggesting an evacuated tunnel/tube for commuter pods.  One hundred twenty-five miles an hour (sled speeds) would be fast enough, especially with 'express' pods that did not stop along the route.

Large station?  Maybe the size of a normal subway station in terms of total square feet.  Pods stopping and loading side by side rather than a large number of subway cars stopping one behind the other.

Getting cars off the streets means getting fewer cars on the streets.  Moving a modest number of cars quickly downtown would help some with commute traffic but do nothing about downtown congestion/parking. 

Small capacity sled-cars won't move a lot of people. 

I bet if you could travel from Central LA, to Simi Valley (35 miles) or Long Beach (20 miles) at 125 miles an hour we'd have a large number of people who would have no problems with using a 'standing only' pod.  35 miles would take 17 minutes (plus a little acceleration/deceleration time.  A pod that carried 30 seated people could carry a lot more standing.   Comfortably fill, don't pack.

Run a mix of seat and stand pods.  Charge less for the stand pods with seat pod discounts for those who need to sit.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: jai mitchell on August 26, 2017, 08:00:06 PM
Might want to ride some subways in a large city.  Watch how many people get off in the financial district stop, for example.  Here's how a LA Downtown system might look.

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4323/35280420913_a144f2f22b_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/VKBnZc)

Imagine an underground station with 10 platforms.  With a pod leaving every 30 seconds that's five minutes to load a pod.  Subway trains do not stop that long and riders often have to push their way off and on crowded cars.

Each platform could have an elevator that held a full pod of people. 

Take a load down just before the pod arrives so that they are lined up ready to go.  (Four across seating loading from one side?  Use guide ropes to get people all lined up.

A pod pulls in, opens and lets people out.  Then pulls forward one length to load those waiting on the platform.  The people who arrived ride the elevator up and get swapped out for the next load.

not sure how I feel about this. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1IaKjk3dc0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1IaKjk3dc0)
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Bob Wallace on August 26, 2017, 09:14:13 PM
In general, it's safer below ground, in a well constructed tunnel, than above ground in an earthquake. 

An 8.0 and all bets are off.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: TerryM on August 26, 2017, 10:33:16 PM
In general, it's safer below ground, in a well constructed tunnel, than above ground in an earthquake. 

An 8.0 and all bets are off.
Can I ask for a source on the 8.0 figure?


I remember the 6.7 Northridge quake tearing waterpipes, gas lines, & sewer pipes apart - as well as breaking concrete block walls, freeways & any manner of structures.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_Northridge_earthquake


With 6 quakes of this magnitude striking California since 1987,(the last 30 years), it seems the odds of experiencing this level quake is fairly high.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_earthquakes_in_California


When the ground is seismically active, I'd prefer to be on top of it.
Terry

Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on August 27, 2017, 12:06:48 AM
"When the ground is seismically active, I'd prefer to be on top of it."

Above ground, you have "stationary" buildings and infrastructure being ripped apart by movement of the earth on which it sits. Below ground, you are moving with the earth, so shearing forces are minimized.

Also, electric signals move much faster than earthquake waves.  Any detection of significant seismic movement can trip alarms that shut down the entire system.  Japan is more seismically active than California, but its bullet train has an incredible safety record.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Bob Wallace on August 27, 2017, 02:51:34 AM
In general, it's safer below ground, in a well constructed tunnel, than above ground in an earthquake. 

An 8.0 and all bets are off.
Can I ask for a source on the 8.0 figure?


I remember the 6.7 Northridge quake tearing waterpipes, gas lines, & sewer pipes apart - as well as breaking concrete block walls, freeways & any manner of structures.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_Northridge_earthquake


With 6 quakes of this magnitude striking California since 1987,(the last 30 years), it seems the odds of experiencing this level quake is fairly high.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_earthquakes_in_California


When the ground is seismically active, I'd prefer to be on top of it.
Terry

Jai's youtube link.

In the 1989 Loma Prieta (San Francisco) 6.9 earthquake a length of elevated highway fell.  Well over 100 buildings were destroyed.  A 76-by-50-foot (23 m × 15 m) section of the upper deck of the Bay Bridge fell onto the deck below  The bridge was out of service for a month.

Sixty-three people were killed and almost 4,000 injured.

BART (underground light rail) suffered only a small amount of cosmetic damage at one station.  The system was shut down for six hours while inspections were carried out and full service was restored within 12 hours.  One train was in the Transbay tunnel  during the quake and the operator detected no motion.

The LA Metro subway went into service in 1993 and experienced the 6.7 Northridge earthquake in 1994.  The subway suffered no damage and  has not been damaged in the many smaller earthquakes that have happened since. 

In the Northridge quake 57 people on the surface died and about 9,000 were injured.  125,000 people were made temporarily homeless.

Seven major freeway bridges in the area collapsed, and 212 were damaged, disrupting traffic in the Ventura-Los Angeles region for weeks following the earthquake. Communication, water and power distribution systems were affected and several fires started.  82,000 residential and commercial units and 5,400 mobile homes were damaged or destroyed.



Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: crandles on August 27, 2017, 06:51:51 PM
In general, it's safer below ground, in a well constructed tunnel, than above ground in an earthquake. 

An 8.0 and all bets are off.
Can I ask for a source on the 8.0 figure?


I wasn't sure what was being asked by this question. Perhaps as answered by Bob but perhaps also:

USA hasn't suffered an 8, (or only 317? years ago when modern infrastructure didn't exist). But is this a good reason for saying all bets are off?

Perhaps there isn't any subway or other tunnels anywhere that have been subjected to an 8?
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: ghoti on August 27, 2017, 07:08:00 PM
Quote
Perhaps there isn't any subway or other tunnels anywhere that have been subjected to an 8?

Tokyo has an extensive subway that was hit by at least a magnitude 8 earthquake.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Bob Wallace on August 27, 2017, 07:15:56 PM
Honshu, Japan - 2011 - 9.1 very major shaker.  (Fukushima meltdown)

Quote
The images of Japan in the aftermath of the giant earthquake and its terrifying tsunami last week and the consequent failure of its nuclear power plant reactors at Fukushima show the scale of the disaster that the people of Japan have to face and overcome.
 
Amid all the mayhem, the news reporting and images are of what can be seen and witnessed on the surface, but what of the underground?

Japan has an underground environment to mirror its vast development on the surface. The fact that there is no news about Japan's underground infrastructure must mean there is no news - or that the report is so minor as to pale to insignificance compared to the reality of the situation on the surface.

In reaching out to our friends and readers in Japan after the catastrophic events of last week, TunnelTalk has learned that while "most of the train and subway in Tokyo stopped in last midnight [but] almost all of the trains and subways are [now] running [again]."

 "A 16-foot-high tunnel running underneath the airport's runways [in Sendai, the city most affected by the tsunami] for about 500 yards was entirely flooded."

"As on so many previous occasions, the reality of the aftermath of strong earthquakes is that the underground remains remarkably intact when the surface has suffered devastating destruction.

Earthquakes in Mexico City; in Kobe Japan; in Chengdu, China; in San Francisco, California; in Santiago, Chile; all had no headline news of underground or tunnel collapses or failures. For cities in seismically active zones, and for urban development in general, this has to be one of the abiding inherent advantages of underground facilities over surface or elevated alternatives. Of course there it is acknowledged that the underground environment would have been equally as horrifyingly impacted to the consequences of the tsunami as the surface."


https://www.tunneltalk.com/Discussion-Forum-Mar11-Seismic-concerns-and-consequences.php (https://www.tunneltalk.com/Discussion-Forum-Mar11-Seismic-concerns-and-consequences.php)

According to this map Sendai was in the high 8/ low 9 shake zone.  And Sendai has a subway system.

https://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/eventpage/official20110311054624120_30#map (https://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/eventpage/official20110311054624120_30#map)

Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: crandles on August 27, 2017, 07:32:42 PM
Quote
Perhaps there isn't any subway or other tunnels anywhere that have been subjected to an 8?

Tokyo has an extensive subway that was hit by at least a magnitude 8 earthquake.

2011 9.1 quake was something like 220 miles away. Not sure how much the strength decays with distance though.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: jai mitchell on August 27, 2017, 08:02:50 PM
In general, it's safer below ground, in a well constructed tunnel, than above ground in an earthquake. 

An 8.0 and all bets are off.
Can I ask for a source on the 8.0 figure?
Terry

https://weather.com/news/news/san-andreas-fault-california-mega-quake-earthquake-big-one (https://weather.com/news/news/san-andreas-fault-california-mega-quake-earthquake-big-one)

Quote
A study published earlier this year concluded that the land on either side of the San Andreas fault has been pushing against the other at a rate of more than 1 inch per year since 1857.

“So you expect that amount of accumulation of energy will be released in the future in a large-magnitude rupture, somewhere along the San Andreas,” said USGS research geologist and study lead author Kate Scharer.

The last major earthquake near Los Angeles hit Fort Tejon in 1857 and registered a 7.9.

An 8.2 earthquake would produce far more energy than what was produced by the nuclear bomb dropped on Hiroshima. But a bigger issue is that all of Southern California would be hit at once.

2011 9.1 quake was something like 220 miles away. Not sure how much the strength decays with distance though.

THIS IS THE MODEL RESULTS BELOW

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blTx92TuWHA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blTx92TuWHA)

note that the direction of propagation along the fault line causes a 'piling up' of energy and a launch of this directional wave directly into LA where some areas will experience +9.0 impacts (red)
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Bob Wallace on August 27, 2017, 08:32:31 PM
Quote
Perhaps there isn't any subway or other tunnels anywhere that have been subjected to an 8?

Tokyo has an extensive subway that was hit by at least a magnitude 8 earthquake.

2011 9.1 quake was something like 220 miles away. Not sure how much the strength decays with distance though.

The map I linked puts Tokyo in the 8 range for the 2011 quake.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Bob Wallace on August 27, 2017, 08:36:22 PM
Quote
THIS IS THE MODEL RESULTS BELOW

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blTx92TuWHA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blTx92TuWHA)

note that the direction of propagation along the fault line causes a 'piling up' of energy and a launch of this directional wave directly into LA where some areas will experience +9.0 impacts (red)

That doesn't tell us anything about the surface vs subsurface movement.

The idea that tunnels move with the earth while the earth moves underneath buildings and bridges is  interesting.  Given the lack of movement-caused tunnel damage (flooding doesn't count) in several major earthquakes it looks like this is possible.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: crandles on August 27, 2017, 09:03:35 PM
Does power cut causing stuck in train problem count as an issue.

The area/volume of tunnels that have experienced strong quakes is very small compared with areas above ground where damage could occur. This might make where you would prefer to be a difficult comparison to make. Also rather than a simple above ground / tunnel it might be better to have several categories

1 Open field, no trees, no buildings, no landslip risk, no tsunami risk
2 Field some nearby trees, no buildings, no landslip risk, no tsunami risk
3 Wood, no buildings, no landslip risk, no tsunami risk
4 Tunnel, no items that could fall, no landslip risk, no tsunami risk
5 Hill some landslip risk, no buildings, no tsunami risk
6 Beach/lakeside, no buildings, no landslip risk
7 In/near building, no landslip risk, no tsunami risk
8 In/near building, some tsunami risk

Obviously could make lots more categories and above might not be right order. More people in 7 and 8 than in all other categories combined so a switch to 4th best place might be sensible?
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Bob Wallace on August 27, 2017, 09:14:37 PM
Quote
Does power cut causing stuck in train problem count as an issue.

In general that would be a no fatality/no injury event.  Many/most tunnels already have emergency lighting so that people can walk out if the system isn't going to come back to life in a reasonable amount of time.

Some rescue system (battery powered powered cars to haul in water/food and move a few people out at a time) could be added if there's a need.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: TerryM on August 27, 2017, 09:39:38 PM
Bob, et al


You've convinced me that tunnels will survive strong earthquakes, and much appreciation for all the data and logic.
I canceled my earthquake insurance on my California home decades ago on the advice of an acquaintance who did risk assessment work for the air force. He believed that quake insurance with it's high costs and high co-pay was ridiculous for single story frame buildings. I haven't regretted the decision to this day. ::)


Terry

Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: ghoti on August 27, 2017, 09:40:05 PM
This conversation has drifted quite far. It started with the question of whether underground tunnels are more susceptible to quakes than above ground alternatives. Now it seems like we are questioning whether they take any damage in the most massive quakes. This is silly. Taking some damage or possibly being affected by power outages still means tunnels are in a much better position compared to above ground facilities.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on August 28, 2017, 01:25:35 AM
Here are some relevant passages from Musk's original Hyperloop paper.
Note: he intends the Hyperloop to be powered by solar power and on-board batteries, not the grid.

Quote
4.3.3. Energy Storage Components
Energy storage allows this linear accelerator to only draw its average power of 8,000 hp (6 MW) (rather than the peak power of 74,000 hp or 55 MW) from its solar array.

Building the energy storage element out of the same lithium ion cells available in the Tesla Model S is economical. A battery array with enough power capability to provide the worst-case smoothing power has a lot of energy – launching 1 capsule only uses 0.5% of the total energy – so degradation due to cycling is not an issue. With proper construction and controls, the battery could be directly connected to the HVDC bus, eliminating the need for an additional DC/DC converter to connect it to the propulsion system.


4.5.2. Power Outage
The vast majority of the Hyperloop travel distance is spent coasting and so the capsule does not require continuous power to travel. The capsule life support systems will be powered by two or more redundant lithium ion battery packs making it unaffected by a power outage. In the event of a power outage occurring after a capsule had been launched, all linear accelerators would be equipped with enough energy storage to bring all capsules currently in the Hyperloop tube safely to a stop at their destination. In addition, linear accelerators using the same storage would complete the acceleration of all capsules currently in the tube. For additional redundancy, all Hyperloop capsules would be fitted with a mechanical braking system to bring capsules safely to a stop.

In summary, all journeys would be completed as expected from the passenger’s perspective. Normal travel schedules would be resumed after power was restored.


4.5.3. Capsule Stranded in Tube
A capsule becoming stranded in the Hyperloop tube is highly unlikely as the capsule coasts the majority of the distance at high speed and so there is no propulsion required for more than 90% of the journey.

If a capsule were somehow to become stranded, capsules ahead would continue their journeys to the destination unaffected. Capsules behind the stranded one would be automatically instructed to deploy their emergency mechanical braking systems. Once all capsules behind the stranded capsule had been safely brought to rest, capsules would drive themselves to safety using small onboard electric motors to power deployed wheels.

All capsules would be equipped with a reserve air supply great enough to ensure the safety of all passengers for a worst case scenario event.
http://www.spacex.com/sites/spacex/files/hyperloop_alpha-20130812.pdf (http://www.spacex.com/sites/spacex/files/hyperloop_alpha-20130812.pdf)
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on August 28, 2017, 09:49:03 PM
So if you build an elevator to lower cars into your boring tunnel, there must be a picture.  And of course, that car must be a Tesla. ;D

elonmusk:  A Model S in The Boring Company tunnel being dug under Los Angeles (starting in Hawthorne)
https://www.instagram.com/p/BYUeGjmAh8N/ (https://www.instagram.com/p/BYUeGjmAh8N/)
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on August 31, 2017, 03:18:37 PM
Tunnels in Houston?  Not just to channel water, but to provide a means of transportation/evacuation other than helicopters and little boats when the city floods.


Is it feasible for @boringcompany to dig drainage tunnels under Houston to prevent storms like #Harvey from devastating the area?

Elon Musk: Not sure, but probably
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/902913054723022850


 In this situation the tunnels would flood too. Can't really design for a 1 in 500 year flood.

Elon Musk:  Tunnels are sealed to 5 atmospheres of water & gas pressure. Just need walls around the apertures.
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/903120412007047169


Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on October 08, 2017, 05:37:43 PM
Boring tunnels.  Easy as 1-2-3.  ;)

Simple math is why Elon Musk’s companies keep doing what others don’t even consider possible
https://qz.com/972118/simple-math-is-why-elon-musks-companies-keep-doing-what-others-dont-even-consider-possible/
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on October 19, 2017, 06:54:39 PM
Elon Musk tweeted:
Second boring machine almost ready. Will be called Line-Storm, after the poem by Frost. "And be my love in the rain."
    https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/920844783542853633
Image below.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on October 19, 2017, 07:43:52 PM
Stuff just got real!  :o

Elon Musk’s Boring Company is starting work on Baltimore-DC underground Hyperloop
Quote
Earlier this morning, we reported about Elon Musk announcing that his Boring Company is getting a second multi-million dollar boring machine.

Now we might have an idea where that new machine is going after what appears to be a new digging site spotted in Maryland today.

Earlier this year, Musk announced a project to create an underground hyperloop system between New York and Washington DC.

The idea is to leverage both the tunnel boring technology that the Boring Company is working on and Musk’s original idea for a new mode of transportation called hyperloop, which consists of pods with electric propulsion in a near-vacuum tunnel or tube in order to achieve extremely high speeds.

Now a site just south of Baltimore in Maryland with a visible ‘The Boring Company’ logo was spotted this week by a Redditor DJB_2015...

It looks like a staging area for the entrance of a digging site – similar to what we have seen from The Boring Company at their tunnel entrance in SpaceX’s parking lot.

Larry Hogan, Governor of the State of Maryland, confirmed that they are working with the company for a “rapid electric transportation” system between Baltimore and Washington DC...

It sounds like it could be the first leg of the New York city-DC underground hyperloop route announced by Musk earlier this year.
...
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Bob Wallace on October 19, 2017, 08:21:40 PM
Quote
Larry Hogan, Governor of the State of Maryland, confirmed that they are working with the company for a “rapid electric transportation” system between Baltimore and Washington DC...

34 miles, straight line.  All in the same state with backing from the governor.

180,000 feet.  60 feet per day with a regular (large diameter) tunneling machine.  3,000 days.  8.2 years.

Musk claims that eventually they should reach speeds of 840 feet per day.   214 days.  7 months.

Wonder how much faster Boring is now?  Smaller diameter will buy them a lot.  Of course they could drop in another machine or more in order to get a first line up and running.

I'm so lovin' this.  With robo taxis on each end of the run there would be almost no reason to drive one's own car between DC and Baltimore.

And this could do wonders for Baltimore's economy.  Turn it into a DC bedroom community.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on October 19, 2017, 10:19:56 PM
Maryland's Governor said to 'get ready' for Elon Musk's Hyperloop that will connect Baltimore and Washington D.C.
Quote
"The tunnels will be built primarily under existing state highways, and the state is supporting the project and will work with the company to expedite the permitting and approval process," a represenative for the Governor's office said in an email. ...
http://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-hyperloop-maryland-larry-hogan-boring-company-2017-10
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: jai mitchell on October 19, 2017, 11:41:21 PM
Quote
Larry Hogan, Governor of the State of Maryland, confirmed that they are working with the company for a “rapid electric transportation” system between Baltimore and Washington DC...

34 miles, straight line.  All in the same state with backing from the governor.

180,000 feet.  60 feet per day with a regular (large diameter) tunneling machine.  3,000 days.  8.2 years.

Musk claims that eventually they should reach speeds of 840 feet per day.   214 days.  7 months.

Wonder how much faster Boring is now?  Smaller diameter will buy them a lot.  Of course they could drop in another machine or more in order to get a first line up and running.

I'm so lovin' this.  With robo taxis on each end of the run there would be almost no reason to drive one's own car between DC and Baltimore.

And this could do wonders for Baltimore's economy.  Turn it into a DC bedroom community.

pretty standard practice to work from both ends of the tunnel.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on October 21, 2017, 02:38:37 PM
Elon Musk:  @APTA_info @baltimoresun Not ready to do a proper announcement yet, but maybe in a month or so. Maryland has been awesome to work with and just wanted to say thanks.
     https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/921419557918597120

Elon Musk to start hyperloop project in Maryland, officials say
Quote
Maryland has given transportation pioneer Elon Musk permission to dig tunnels for the high-speed, underground transit system known as a hyperloop that Musk wants to build between New York and Washington.

Hogan administration officials said Thursday the state has issued a conditional utility permit to let Musk’s tunneling firm, The Boring Co., dig a 10.3-mile tunnel beneath the state-owned portion of the Baltimore-Washington Parkway, between the Baltimore city line and Maryland 175 in Hanover. ...
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/politics/bs-md-hyperloop-in-baltimore-20171019-story.html

(Will also post in Hyperloop thread.)

Edit:  This appears to be the location:  https://goo.gl/maps/qy6awSFSPCL2

39°08'42.0"N 76°45'04.6"W

Milestone Parkway, near the lower "295" label:
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: TerryM on October 21, 2017, 03:56:38 PM
OK, today is 10/21/2017, and the permit for the first 10.3 miles has been issued.


When will the section be completed? When will the first Hyperloop be running?


Terry
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on October 21, 2017, 05:37:05 PM
OK, today is 10/21/2017, and the permit for the first 10.3 miles has been issued.


When will the section be completed? When will the first Hyperloop be running?


Terry

My vote: first hyperloop rides in 2022, around the time SpaceX is launching (unmanned) to Mars. 
But the Elon time conversion may make this 2023.  ;D
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: crandles on October 21, 2017, 06:18:04 PM
OK, today is 10/21/2017, and the permit for the first 10.3 miles has been issued.

When will the section be completed? When will the first Hyperloop be running?


180,000 feet.  60 feet per day with a regular (large diameter) tunneling machine.  3,000 days.  8.2 years.

Musk claims that eventually they should reach speeds of 840 feet per day.   214 days.  7 months.

Wonder how much faster Boring is now?  Smaller diameter will buy them a lot.  Of course they could drop in another machine or more in order to get a first line up and running.

Half radius gives factor 4 volume of earth per day and one from each end makes factor 8.

So possibly a year digging time or maybe less. Uncertainty in that figure seems likely to be small compared to time to fit it all out and get a hyperloop operating.

Sigmetnow grabbed 2022 which sounds about right - everything new is always 5 years away, so shall I grab 2021 or 2023 or later? I'll go for 2023. Even then, I expect limited capacity which will result in continuing development of 'terminals' for some considerable time before it can operate at anywhere near capacity.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Bob Wallace on October 21, 2017, 10:16:13 PM
I suspect they would be completing the tunnel, building the stations and pods as they were digging the tunnel. From the end of digging to being ready to start testing might not take long.

My question is 'only one tunnel'?  How about the return route?  How about service and escape?  Seems like they need three tunnels.  Perhaps they would complete one but and use it to test and improve equipment which digging more.

Much unknown.

I'd like to read a piece on who controls land use at x feet below the surface.  What happens if there is a private water well in the route.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on October 21, 2017, 10:42:14 PM
<snipped>

I'd like to read a piece on who controls land use at x feet below the surface.  What happens if there is a private water well in the route.

Because a tunnel is "only" 14 feet wide, it should not be too hard to relocate a well, if needed.  Routing under major highways (as the Maryland spokeperson noted was the plan, see Reply #132 above) should prevent most such conflicts.

In the Hawthorne city council meeting, they explained some of their safety precautions:
Quote
The rest of Horton’s presentation revolved around safety requirements for building the tunnel. He went through several safety measures that the Boring Company is taking to ensure that it will be safe. It ranges from simple checks for gas lines, sewage, and optic cables, to more high-tech systems to monitor surface disruption from their tunneling efforts. ...
https://electrek.co/2017/08/08/elon-musk-boring-company-tesla-tunnel/
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: crandles on October 21, 2017, 10:57:02 PM
I suspect they would be completing the tunnel, building the stations and pods as they were digging the tunnel. From the end of digging to being ready to start testing might not take long.


Perhaps compare

Channel tunnel - traditional railway 31.4 miles:
Construction began 28 Feb 88
Breakthrough 1 Dec 90
First shuttle carrying car 22 Dec 1994
https://www.eurotunnel.com/uk/build/

So less than 3 years to dig, just over 4 years after that to start of operations and it wasn't a new transport technology. Maybe when the technology is more mature, it will be simpler and not take 4 years from digging completion.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Bob Wallace on October 22, 2017, 02:01:11 AM
The Chunnel required building a railway in the tunnel.  They system that Boring will use (I'm guessing) will be sections of tubing that will get moved into place and welded. 

Or something else.

Knowing how Musk likes to work I suspect speed will be of the essence.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on October 22, 2017, 02:18:09 AM
<smipped>

Knowing how Musk likes to work I suspect speed will be of the essence.

Will be fun to see what timeline Musk lays out in his "proper announcement" in "a month or so."

But first... Tesla Semi-truck reveal (and "something else"?); first Model 3 deliveries to non-Tesla-connected customers; SpaceX KoreaSat launch; SpaceX "Zuma" launch; more Puerto Rico PowerPacks....

Going to be hard to keep up! :)
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: SteveMDFP on October 22, 2017, 03:31:06 AM
Elon Musk:  @APTA_info @baltimoresun Not ready to do a proper announcement yet, but maybe in a month or so. Maryland has been awesome to work with and just wanted to say thanks.
     https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/921419557918597120

Elon Musk to start hyperloop project in Maryland, officials say
Quote
Maryland has given transportation pioneer Elon Musk permission to dig tunnels for the high-speed, underground transit system known as a hyperloop that Musk wants to build between New York and Washington.

Hogan administration officials said Thursday the state has issued a conditional utility permit to let Musk’s tunneling firm, The Boring Co., dig a 10.3-mile tunnel beneath the state-owned portion of the Baltimore-Washington Parkway, between the Baltimore city line and Maryland 175 in Hanover. ...
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/politics/bs-md-hyperloop-in-baltimore-20171019-story.html

(Will also post in Hyperloop thread.)

Edit:  This appears to be the location:  https://goo.gl/maps/qy6awSFSPCL2

39°08'42.0"N 76°45'04.6"W

Milestone Parkway, near the lower "295" label:

Nifty.  That's just a few miles from were I live.  I doubt, though, that there will be a station stop there on the eventual DC-Balt line.  Maybe a stop at BWI airport/train station, not much further away. 

Much as I'd like to dislike our Republican governor, he does seem to be forward-looking by facilitating this project.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on October 28, 2017, 11:53:41 PM
Elon Musk tweeted:

Picture of The Boring Company LA tunnel taken yesterday
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/924387972161552384
Image below.

... 500 ft [150 m] so far. Should be 2 miles [3.2 km] long in three or four months and hopefully stretch the whole 405 N-S corridor from LAX to the 101 in a year or so.
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/924389383792312320
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on October 29, 2017, 12:10:38 AM
And here's what traffic looks like on the 405 right now on a Saturday afternoon, in nice weather. (Left side of map.)

Highway 101 near the top, LAX airport near the bottom.  SpaceX (where the tunneling started) is next to Hawthorne airport.

Any wonder that a tunnel sounds like a great idea to a lot of Los Angelinos?
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: crandles on October 29, 2017, 01:00:00 AM

... 500 ft [150 m] so far. Should be 2 miles [3.2 km] long in three or four months and hopefully stretch the whole 405 N-S corridor from LAX to the 101 in a year or so.
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/924389383792312320


They started work on the launch pit in January and installed the TBM in May.  That's four months just to get started.  Musk tweeted that the first segment of the tunnel was complete on June 29th.  There were no details about how long the segment was.  If we assume that it's the 350 feet you mention in the quote above, that's a month to go 350 feet, or 12 feet a day.  That's about right for a TBM and crew working up to speed on a new tunneling project.

In another another article, Boring's representative estimates that it will take 8 months to bore the 2 mile long test tunnel in Hawthorne. 

500 ft doesn't seem much given we were talking of possibly 350ft being complete on June 29th then a pause until permissions granted around end of Aug.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on October 29, 2017, 01:10:57 AM

<snip>


They started work on the launch pit in January and installed the TBM in May.  That's four months just to get started.  Musk tweeted that the first segment of the tunnel was complete on June 29th.  There were no details about how long the segment was.  If we assume that it's the 350 feet you mention in the quote above, that's a month to go 350 feet, or 12 feet a day.  That's about right for a TBM and crew working up to speed on a new tunneling project.

In another another article, Boring's representative estimates that it will take 8 months to bore the 2 mile long test tunnel in Hawthorne. 

500 ft doesn't seem much given we were talking of possibly 350ft being complete on June 29th then a pause until permissions granted around end of Aug.

Does this perhaps refer to the original, test tunnel under SpaceX property?  It sounds to me like it might be from earlier on.

Also, keep in mind that they are testing out new methods of boring, and shoring, the tunnel -- and that a second, faster TBM "is almost complete."  Expect tunneling speed to increase over time!
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: crandles on October 29, 2017, 01:24:27 AM

Does this perhaps refer to the original, test tunnel under SpaceX property?  It sounds to me like it might be from earlier on.

Same tunnel, pretty sure there is only one SpaceX tunnel currently being dug in LA. There is a bend near end of SpaceX property in Hawthorne per map in post 101 of this thread. 350ft is distance to SpaceX boundary.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on October 29, 2017, 01:39:47 AM

Does this perhaps refer to the original, test tunnel under SpaceX property?  It sounds to me like it might be from earlier on.

Same tunnel, pretty sure there is only one SpaceX tunnel currently being dug in LA. There is a bend near end of SpaceX property in Hawthorne per map in post 101 of this thread. 350ft is distance to SpaceX boundary.

Well, 2 miles in 4 months is 600 feet [180 m] a week.  "Aspirationally" (to use Musk's favorite new term). ;D
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on October 29, 2017, 02:06:49 AM
OK, per this article, the original test tunnel was only 160 feet long, so, never mind.  ;)

https://electrek.co/2017/10/28/elon-musk-first-image-tunnel-under-los-angeles-airport-101/

But:
Quote
When the current 2-mile long tunnel is completed, it would only need a few more miles west to reach the 405 and the international airport (LAX), but we are talking about almost a dozen miles to reach the 101 highway.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: crandles on October 29, 2017, 12:33:34 PM
160ft in 1 month then further 340 ft in 2 months. Yep, that show acceleration.  ;)
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on October 29, 2017, 01:53:36 PM
160ft in 1 month then further 340 ft in 2 months. Yep, that show acceleration.  ;)

I would certainly hope they took more care as they begin their first tunnel down a city street -- with all the risks that entails -- compared with digging a tunnel limited to SpaceX property! :P
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on October 29, 2017, 04:12:33 PM
Elon Musk’s Boring Co. takes aim at fighting LA traffic
Quote
It doesn’t come as much of a surprise that Musk would choose this section as the company’s first project. After all, his dealing with constant soul-crushing traffic along a path of travel that’s a consistent winner of “America’s worst freeways” was the genesis for The Boring Company.

“First route will go roughly parallel to the 405 from LAX to 101, with on/offramps every mile or so. It will work like a fast freeway, where electric skates carrying vehicles and people on pods on the main artery travel at up to 150mph, and the skates switch to side tunnels to exit and enter.” says Musk.

Vehicles entering and exiting the tunnels would be helped by a car elevator, something Musk first demonstrated in July after posting a video of a Tesla Model S being lowered into the tunnel entrance. The use of side tunnels for exit and entry will allow the main tunnel to keep a consistent, high speed flow of traffic and make travel more efficient. It’s a key differentiator from traditional subway systems that often experience frequent stop-and-go travel. “There is a big difference compared to subways that stop at every stop, whether you’re getting off or not.” said Musk after sharing an image of the test tunnel. ...
https://www.teslarati.com/boring-companys-first-route-takes-aim-traffic-las-worst-freeway/

Edit:
The Boring Company wins city council approval for 2-mile test tunnel beneath Hawthorne, CA
Quote
The Boring Company will repurpose a tunnel-boring machine that was once used for digging sewage lines in San Francisco, according to SpaceX’s Brett Horton, senior director of facilities and construction, who also oversees The Boring Company project. Horton notes that construction of the 2-mile long test track will be undetectable because of the tunnel depth, which is expected to reach 44-feet below ground and well beneath underground utilities.
...
“The test tunnel project would involve SpaceX engineers repeatedly testing personal vehicle types suitable for placement on the skates; refinement of the design and technology; and general data collection on performance, durability, and application,” said the Boring Company in its documents submitted to the city council. ...
https://www.teslarati.com/the-boring-company-city-council-approved-2-mile-test-track/

  "@elonmusk Can Texas haz hyper loop too? Dallas - Houston - San Antonio - Austin (a girl can dream...)"
Musk: For sure. First set of tunnels are to alleviate greater LA urban congestion. Will start NY-DC in parallel. Then prob LA-SF and a TX loop.
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/888059982586839041
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on November 23, 2017, 12:00:34 AM
Nov. 22:   Elon Musk takes 1st steps to build futuristic underground tunnel in LA
Quote
Last week, The Boring Company, the firm Musk created to build the tunnel, filed an application with city officials to start digging within city limits, the Los Angeles Times reported.
...
The initial proposed route would stretch along Interstate 405 from Hawthorne to Westwood, and the project will be funded entirely by private money, a spokesperson for The Boring Co. said Tuesday, according to the Times. Last month, Musk expressed hopes that the tunnel would stretch the "whole 405" corridor from LAX to Interstate 101 in "a year or so." ...
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/elon-musk-files-permit-begin-digging-underground-tunnel/story?id=51325990


And where will all the “private money” come from?  Well, Musk's “Initial Hat Offering” has earned him $300,000 so far.  ;D

Elon Musk raises $300k for The Boring Co. in “Initial Hat Offering” (IHO)
Quote
Roughly a month after it was revealed that The Boring Company was beginning to sell hats, serial tech entrepreneur Elon Musk confirmed that his tunnel digging venture has sold $300,000 worth of the merchandise. The Tesla and SpaceX CEO thanked all buyers of the company’s “super boring hat” over Twitter saying, “You rock, figuratively & literally. All cash goes directly towards more boring.”

He is of course thankful for the outcome of his tongue-in-cheek “Initial Hat Offering”, or IHO, because, after all, the company has been in the midst of building an underground tunnel beneath Los Angeles. “Gonna build that tunnel one hat at a time” said Musk last month. ...
https://www.teslarati.com/elon-musk-raises-300k-boring-co-initial-hat-offering-iho/
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on November 30, 2017, 03:49:34 AM
The Boring Company will compete to fund, build & operate a high-speed Loop connecting Chicago O’Hare Airport to downtown
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/936060082290167808


More in the Hyperloop thread: 
https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,1094.msg135109.html#msg135109
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on December 04, 2017, 10:20:55 PM
Elon Musk’s Boring Company unveils concept map of planned Los Angeles tunnel network
Quote
Elon Musk’s Boring Company, a startup aiming to create networks of tunnels with electric skate transit systems, recently sought to expand its tunnels under Los Angeles.  They have now released a map of the planned network – giving us a better idea of the scale of the project.

They reportedly already completed a 305-feet (100 meters) tunnel with an entrance in SpaceX’s parking lot in Hawthorne and they have received the green light to extend the tunnel by 2 miles in Hawthorne toward the Los Angeles International Airport.

In October, Musk said that the new section of the tunnel would be completed in “3 to 4 months”.
We reported last month that the Boring Company filed for new excavation permits for a new route, which the company is now referring to as “a 6.5-mile proof-of-concept tunnel”.

The [company] wrote on its website:
“The tunnel would be used for construction logistics verification, system testing, safety testing, operating procedure verification, and line-switching demonstrations. Phase 1 would not be utilized for public transportation until the proof-of-concept tunnel is deemed successful by County government, City government, and The Boring Company. “

The tunnel is shown in red on the map:

They previously announced that they plan to use Tesla’s technology for their transportation system in the tunnels – a sort of electric skate platform to transport cars autonomously faster and more efficiently. By moving cars on tracks instead of driving between lanes, they can reduce the tunnel to a 13.5-foot diameter, which consequently reduces the cost of boring.  Those electric skates can travel between 125-150 miles per hour and carry between 8 and 16 passengers, according to the startup.  It has the potential to both accelerate the electrification of transport in the region and to reduce traffic at the surface.

For the blue lines, the company emphasized that it’s not the finalized alignment:
“Blue indicates potential Phase 2 expansion options, and is included as a concept, not as a finalized alignment. Phase 2 specifics would be developed in cooperation with Los Angeles County, the City of Los Angeles, city governments in the greater Los Angeles area, and the general public. The Boring Company looks forward to receiving feedback from residents of the greater Los Angeles area on station locations and system improvements for Phase 2 and beyond.”

The company is now seeking feedback on the project, which is just one of three different projects that we know about so far. The two others being the Baltimore-DC underground Hyperloop and the Chicago high-speed loop.
https://electrek.co/2017/12/04/elon-musk-boring-company-map-los-angeles-tunnel-network/
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Bob Wallace on December 04, 2017, 11:12:59 PM
Why take cars to the airport?

Leave your car home.  Airports are already too crowded with cars.  Turn the sleds into very fast small subway cars.  Offer a luxury option if someone just can't stand riding with the rest of us.

I suppose if rich people pay the development costs so that Borning, Inc. can get their speeds up and costs down then the sleds are justified.  They can be swapped out for passenger pods once we're in the world of robotaxis.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on December 05, 2017, 03:16:37 AM
Why take cars to the airport?

Leave your car home.  Airports are already too crowded with cars.  Turn the sleds into very fast small subway cars.  Offer a luxury option if someone just can't stand riding with the rest of us.

I suppose if rich people pay the development costs so that Borning, Inc. can get their speeds up and costs down then the sleds are justified.  They can be swapped out for passenger pods once we're in the world of robotaxis.

The “skate” proposal for this tunnel carries small people-pods as well as cars. 

Small pods can carry a small group directly to their destination — no need for intermediate stops for some passengers to get off.  You could make a reservation for a trip, to start from a particular Loop station, on your phone, and an app would tell you what time, and the ID number of the pod, that will be there for you to get on with fellow travellers to the same destination.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Bob Wallace on December 05, 2017, 03:35:50 AM
That's the system that I think could be a major hit.  High speed, express subway. 
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on December 15, 2017, 10:02:50 PM
Progress on the U.S. Northeast corridor tunnel system.  Apparently there are indications the tunnels will be built to use the “skate” system, rather than a Hyperloop, at this point.

Elon Musk’s Boring Company is reportedly starting to dig 12.4-mile tunnel in Maryland next month
Quote
Now a new utility permit obtained by Capital News Service shows that the company plans to “begin digging two parallel, 12.4-mile transportation tunnels in January 2018.”

“The document lists the start location as “immediately north of MD 175” and details a dig to “within 0.25 miles of intersection of W. Pratt and S. Paca” -about a block from Oriole Park at Camden Yards – with tunnels running under the approximate route of the Maryland-owned section of Route 295, or the Baltimore-Washington Parkway.”
...
https://electrek.co/2017/12/15/elon-musk-boring-company-tunnel-maryland-hyperloop/
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Bob Wallace on December 15, 2017, 10:35:25 PM
It's too short a distance to go full 'loop.  Passenger pods that can travel non-stop at over 100 MPH will be a great solution.

If the system runs as installed expect this to be a huge benefit for Baltimore.  It would open up a lot more affordable housing for people who work in DC.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on January 12, 2018, 10:17:57 PM
Why we need Musk’s (future) faster and cheaper boring machines — and lots of them — ASAP!

The Most Awful Transit Center in America Could Get Unimaginably Worse
Think Penn Station is bad? Let’s go into the crumbling, disaster-prone tunnels that lie beneath.
Quote
To get to New York’s Penn Station, every northbound Amtrak passenger makes the last leg of their journey, through tunnels beneath the Hudson River, in the dark. Trust me: They should be glad. One day this autumn, an Acela pulls into Newark, N.J., and a railway spokesman escorts me onto the rear engine car, where we stand and take in the view facing backward. As we descend into one of the Hudson tunnels—there are two, both 107 years old, finished in the same year the Wright brothers built their first airplane factory—a supervisor flips on the rear headlights, illuminating the ghastly tubes.

Our train (unsurprisingly) is operating at reduced speed because of an electrical glitch, which just gives us more time to gawk at the damage. There are eerie, nearly fluorescent white stains on the tunnel walls that look like they were painted by a giant with a roller brush. The pale swaths are remnants of the salt water that inundated the passages five years ago, during Hurricane Sandy. Sulfates and chlorides have been eating away at the concrete ever since, exposing reinforcement bars underneath. “Keep your eyes peeled,” says Craig Schulz, the affable Amtrak spokesman, “and you’ll see some of these areas where there is literally just crumbling concrete.”

As we emerge into the bowels of Penn Station, Schulz points to wooden flood doors above the tunnel entrances. They were installed during World War II to hold back the river if the tubes were torpedoed by a Nazi submarine. In the gloom, the doors look a full century older than their vintage. They seem more suited for a dungeon than a modern rail system like this one—the Northeast Corridor, which runs from Boston to Washington, D.C., serving an area that generates a fifth of U.S. gross domestic product. Before we step off the train, Schulz repeats Amtrak’s mantra: The storm-ravaged tunnels are safe, for now, but the railroad doesn’t know how long it will be able to keep them in service. ...
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-01-10/the-most-awful-transit-center-in-america-could-get-unimaginably-worse
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Bob Wallace on January 12, 2018, 10:42:25 PM
If Boring can greatly reduce the cost of tunneling as Musk think's possible then we're looking at a brand new world of public transportation.  Robo-vehicles for short hops and very fast underground travel for the longer trips.

Standard tunnel boring speed 60 feet per day (average).  Musk says that Boring can operate at 14x standard.

NYC to Washington DC 200 miles - straight line.  200 miles = 1,056,000 feet.

60 feet per day = 17,600 days.

600 feet per day (10x improvement - dialing back a bit from Musk's 14x) = 1,760 days 

Ten boring machines = 176 days.  Six months.

3,000 miles coast to coast.  200 10x-tunneling machines could complete a coast to coast tunnel in half a year. 
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on January 18, 2018, 09:17:25 PM
Round one of Boring Company funding –– involving the sale of 50,000 hats –– is now complete! ;D

https://electrek.co/2018/01/18/elon-musk-boring-company-hat-boring-machine-tour-tunnel/
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: oren on February 01, 2018, 09:09:44 AM
So I've been wondering, does it make sense to anyone that a tunnel to LAX would move cars instead of just people? Why bring a car to an airport?
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Bob Wallace on February 01, 2018, 05:26:44 PM
So I've been wondering, does it make sense to anyone that a tunnel to LAX would move cars instead of just people? Why bring a car to an airport?

It doesn't make sense to me but it may be that people with deep pockets who are in a hurry might pay more and fund the first tunnel project.  Sort of a Model S approach to getting things going in order to do lower profit margin projects later.

Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on February 01, 2018, 07:56:55 PM
So I've been wondering, does it make sense to anyone that a tunnel to LAX would move cars instead of just people? Why bring a car to an airport?

Lots of cars go to LAX already. ;)  They park and fly, or pick up passengers.  The sled/skate project would get the cars off the surrounding roads, lessening the famous LA heavy traffic and pollution.  But the tunnel project would also include “people pods,” so travellers could get to and from the airport without a car.  (And unlike a train, get them to their destination station quickly, directly, and on-demand, without intervening stops).
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on February 01, 2018, 08:06:09 PM
The Boring Company sold out of its 20,000 toy flamethrowers in three days.  At $500 a pop, that will bring in a cool $10 million.

Elon Musk (who changed his Twitter profile to “Zombie Defender” during the event), no doubt ‘felt the heat’ of his unusual campaign, tweeting today that extra safety will be included:

“All flamethrowers will ship with a complimentary boring fire extinguisher”
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/958932755194167296
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: TerryM on February 14, 2018, 04:05:03 PM
I remember Musk saying that smaller diameter tunnels would keep costs down.


Does anyone know whether the smaller size tunnels he was advocating are applicable with the new larger sized tubes that hyperloop, as envisaged by Virgin Hyperloop, will require?


Terry
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: gerontocrat on February 14, 2018, 04:41:00 PM
I remember Musk saying that smaller diameter tunnels would keep costs down.

Does anyone know whether the smaller size tunnels he was advocating are applicable with the new larger sized tubes that hyperloop, as envisaged by Virgin Hyperloop, will require?

Terry
Super-sized Yanks not allowed on board?
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on February 14, 2018, 06:43:06 PM
I remember Musk saying that smaller diameter tunnels would keep costs down.


Does anyone know whether the smaller size tunnels he was advocating are applicable with the new larger sized tubes that hyperloop, as envisaged by Virgin Hyperloop, will require?


Terry

Musk was comparing historically large, multi-vehicle-lane tunnels, with the tunnels he planned, which are only about 14 feet in diameter.  The hyperloop is of course much closer to 14 feet (4.27 m).
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: TerryM on February 14, 2018, 07:29:27 PM
I remember Musk saying that smaller diameter tunnels would keep costs down.


Does anyone know whether the smaller size tunnels he was advocating are applicable with the new larger sized tubes that hyperloop, as envisaged by Virgin Hyperloop, will require?


Terry

Musk was comparing historically large, multi-vehicle-lane tunnels, with the tunnels he planned, which are only about 14 feet in diameter.  The hyperloop is of course much closer to 14 feet (4.27 m).
Thanks
Terry
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: ghoti on February 15, 2018, 03:31:16 PM
I remember Musk saying that smaller diameter tunnels would keep costs down.


Does anyone know whether the smaller size tunnels he was advocating are applicable with the new larger sized tubes that hyperloop, as envisaged by Virgin Hyperloop, will require?


Terry

Musk was comparing historically large, multi-vehicle-lane tunnels, with the tunnels he planned, which are only about 14 feet in diameter.  The hyperloop is of course much closer to 14 feet (4.27 m).
Thanks
Terry
Current Devloop track is a 3.3m diameter tube.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on February 20, 2018, 12:58:58 AM
Article includes satellite map image of Washington, D.C. location where the Boring Company has been given permission to dig.

“They are also bidding on one project that they didn’t initiate – they want Chicago’s proposed airport to downtown train to be a ‘high-speed loop’.”

Elon Musk’s Boring Company gets green-light for possible hyperloop station in Washington
https://electrek.co/2018/02/19/elon-musk-boring-company-hyperloop-washington/


Edit: Boring Company spokesman says D.C. location could involve hyperloop as well as slower intra-city “loops.”
Quote
“Last year, the internet needled Elon Musk for tweeting he had verbal approval to dig a Hyperloop tunnel in Washington, DC, because officials said they granted no such thing. Now, however, The Boring Company does have an honest-to-gosh written permit, albeit only for some preliminary site preparation and excavation, the Washington Post reports.

The Boring Company is working with an as-yet unnamed firm, possibly Hyperloop One, to build a line between New York City and Washington, DC, with stops at Philadelphia and Baltimore -- the "NY-Phil-Balt-DC Hyperloop." The total trip time between DC and NYC would be just 29 minutes, which would obviously revolutionize transportation, as you could work in Manhattan and live in Philly for one-tenth the price.

The permit is for a spot at 53 New York Avenue NE in Washington's trendy NoMa quarter. A Boring Company spokesperson told the WaPo that "a New York Avenue location, if constructed, could become a station" as part of the Hyperloop network of ultra-high-speed main lines and slower city "loops." ...”
https://www.engadget.com/amp/2018/02/19/elon-musk-hyperloop-digging-permit-washington-dc/
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on March 10, 2018, 01:37:59 PM
Cross-posted from Hyperloop thread:

Elon Musk tweeted:
“Adjusting The Boring Company plan: all tunnels & Hyperloop will prioritize pedestrians & cyclists over cars”

“Will still transport cars, but only after all personalized mass transit needs are met. It’s a matter of courtesy & fairness. If someone can’t afford a car, they should go first.”

“Boring Co urban loop system would have 1000’s of small stations the size of a single parking space that take you very close to your destination & blend seamlessly into the fabric of a city, rather than a small number of big stations like a subway”

“Better video coming soon, but it would look a bit like this: “
https://mobile.twitter.com/elonmusk/status/972245615735222273/video/1

Article:
Elon Musk’s Boring Company will focus on hyperloop and tunnels for pedestrians and cyclists
https://electrek.co/2018/03/09/elon-musk-boring-company-hyperloop-tunnels-pedestrian-cyclist/

Edit:
Elon Musk:  “I guess you could say it’s a 150 mph, underground, autonomous, electric bus that automatically switches between tunnels and lifts. So, yes, a bus.”
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/972248154354495488
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on March 10, 2018, 02:02:31 PM
Was Elon Musk’s announcement a response to this?

Cost for California bullet train system rises to $77.3 billion
Quote
The California bullet train project took a sharp jump in price Friday when the state rail authority announced the cost of connecting Los Angeles to San Francisco would total $77.3 billion, an increase of $13 billion from estimates two years ago, and could potentially rise as high as $98.1 billion.
...
The rail authority found that nobody could be sure what was under the ground in Fresno, driving up the cost of relocating sewers, water lines, communications cables and electrical conduits by hundreds of millions of dollars. Freight railroads insisted that the rail authority build barriers that would protect passenger trains from derailments on nearby freight tracks, a requirement that drove up costs by hundreds of millions of dollars, as well. ...
http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-bullet-train-cost-increase-20180309-story.html

Just a note here that Boring Company tunnels would be deep enough underground (~40 feet / 12m) to avoid all those problems.... ;)
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: oren on March 10, 2018, 03:55:39 PM
Transporting pedestrians to and from lots of small stations makes a lot of sense, much more than transporting cars.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on March 11, 2018, 01:03:27 PM
Tunnel sizes.
14 feet = 4.27 meters
38 feet = 11.58 meters
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on March 21, 2018, 02:52:45 PM
“One is proposing a more traditional rapid rail service. The other is proposing a tunnel service. Cost components will be different. But the city won’t be on the hook for any of it.”

Elon Musk’s Boring Company ‘Loop’ is one of last two contenders for the Chicago transit system
Quote
By Friday, a new “request for proposals” (RFP) will be issued for both companies to complete by May 18. At that point, the city will choose a winner for the project.

To be clear, the winner doesn’t actually get any public funds to make the project a reality. They simply win the rights to develop the project, which they will have to fund themselves through revenue from transit fares.

As for the actual system called “Loop” that the Boring Company plans to deploy in Chicago, it’s actually different from the company’s other two projects in Los Angeles and between Washington D.C. and New York.
...
The company later elaborated on the ‘Loop’ concept on its website:

Loop is a high-speed underground public transportation system in which passengers are transported on autonomous electric skates traveling at 125-150 miles per hour. Electric skates will carry between 8 and 16 passengers (mass transit), or a single passenger vehicle.

It’s in line with Musk’s recent announcement that the Boring Company will focus on hyperloop and tunnels for pedestrians and cyclists instead of systems to move cars.
https://electrek.co/2018/03/21/elon-musk-boring-company-loop-chicago-transit-system/
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on March 22, 2018, 01:47:51 PM
Boring-killer?  ;D

Elon Musk:  Maybe there should be 2 providers for Chicago advanced transit. Monopolies are so boring ...
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/976661622235152384

     Elon Musk’s Boring Co. chosen as final two in Chicago-O’Hare tunnel project bid
     https://www.teslarati.com/elon-musk-boring-company-chicago-ohare-tunnel-final-two-bids/


Bonus:
Watch Tesla Model X pulling 250,000 lbs of muck rail cars out of the Boring Company’s tunnel
https://electrek.co/2018/03/22/tesla-model-x-pulling-250000-lbs-muck-rail-car-boring-company-tunnel/
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on March 23, 2018, 03:02:23 AM
Baltimore to Washington, D.C. 
Tunnels. 
With ‘Loop’ technology, which could be converted to Hyperloop. 
Entirely privately funded.
Construction would take between 12 and 20 months.

Elon Musk’s Boring Company unveils proposed ‘Loop’ route to travel Washington-Baltimore in 15 mins
Quote
After a few months of quietly working on their hyperloop project on the East Coast, Elon Musk’s Boring Company has now unveiled the first leg of the project, which is a ‘Loop’ transit system to travel between Washington D.C. and Baltimore in 15 minutes.
...
Today, they released more details about the proposed project, including a route of twin tunnels of approximately 35 miles in parallel from downtown DC to downtown Baltimore....
...
Interestingly, they specified that this part of the system will be a ‘Loop’, like the Boring Company’s Los Angeles and Chicago projects, instead of a Hyperloop, as described above.

They wrote:

“Loop tunnels are designed to be compatible with Hyperloop requirements (see FAQ for the difference between Loop and Hyperloop).  A Hyperloop trip from DC to New York would be less than 30 minutes, so we are hopeful that this tunnel could eventually be part of that trip.”

It sounds like they could eventually reduce the pressure in those tunnels to turn them into a part of the eventual longer east coast hyperloop.

Musk’s new startup, which he jokingly claims to be financing with the sale of hats and flamethrowers, says that the project would be entirely privately funded and it could be completed in only 12 to 20 months – depending on the speed they achieve with their boring machine. ...
https://electrek.co/2018/03/22/elon-musk-boring-company-loop-route-washington-dc-baltimore-route/


“Construction would take between 12 and 20 months depending on the achieved speed of the boring machine.”
https://www.boringcompany.com/eastcoast/
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Archimid on March 23, 2018, 03:37:24 AM
If this is like the Falcon 1, or the Tesla Roadster then the next step is a boring machine factory. That way he can "mass produce" boring machines and generate significant savings, making tunnels much cheaper.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: SteveMDFP on March 23, 2018, 07:47:51 PM
Baltimore to Washington, D.C. 
Tunnels. 
With ‘Loop’ technology, which could be converted to Hyperloop. 
Entirely privately funded.
Construction would take between 12 and 20 months.

Elon Musk’s Boring Company unveils proposed ‘Loop’ route to travel Washington-Baltimore in 15 mins
 

Nifty!  My home is on that map.  I might be the first ASIF poster to ride a Loop before long.  I'll take pictures (if I'm not too loopy).
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on March 24, 2018, 12:27:33 AM
If this is like the Falcon 1, or the Tesla Roadster then the next step is a boring machine factory. That way he can "mass produce" boring machines and generate significant savings, making tunnels much cheaper.

That is my thought as well — although it might also end up in a corner of SpaceX (or wherever they make their rocket bodies) or the Nevada Gigafactory (where they make electric motors...).  The website mentions Approximately 4 tunnel boring machine “launch pits”, so maybe four (or eight???) boring machines running at once?


SteveMDFP,
Yes, photos, please!
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on March 24, 2018, 01:25:25 PM
If this is like the Falcon 1, or the Tesla Roadster then the next step is a boring machine factory. That way he can "mass produce" boring machines and generate significant savings, making tunnels much cheaper.

That is my thought as well — although it might also end up in a corner of SpaceX (or wherever they make their rocket bodies) or the Nevada Gigafactory (where they make electric motors...).  The website mentions Approximately 4 tunnel boring machine “launch pits”, so maybe four (or eight???) boring machines running at once?
...

Or consider this property in Long Beach, California, that SpaceX just acquired to build its next generation “BFR” rocket/spaceship.  Although the Boring machine is nowhere near the same size, this location would give them the option of shipping by boat or barge, as well as by truck.

https://www.teslarati.com/spacexs-first-bfr-manufacturing-facility-approved-long-beach-port-la-photos/
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: wili on March 24, 2018, 01:58:01 PM
I  have this feeling that we get obsessed with these kinds of 'how to' projects partly to avoid the harder questions of 'how come' i.e. 'why'.

Why do we feel a need to travel very rapidly over long distances. Somehow humans survived for millennia without this ability. Having the ability...the technical know how and resources...to do stupid, wasteful and unnecessary things, yet choosing not to do them, I would say, is one touchstone of wisdom (or at least of non-idiocy, which is maybe the highest we can, occasionally, hope for in our collective actions these days).
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on March 24, 2018, 06:14:44 PM
I  have this feeling that we get obsessed with these kinds of 'how to' projects partly to avoid the harder questions of 'how come' i.e. 'why'.

Why do we feel a need to travel very rapidly over long distances. Somehow humans survived for millennia without this ability. Having the ability...the technical know how and resources...to do stupid, wasteful and unnecessary things, yet choosing not to do them, I would say, is one touchstone of wisdom (or at least of non-idiocy, which is maybe the highest we can, occasionally, hope for in our collective actions these days).

Are many trips taken today unnecessary, and taken “because we can”?  Yes.
Have most societies grown up around the idea that travel is necessary and useful?  Yes.

Is the need to travel rapidly over long distances necessary?  Sometimes. In 1925, the Great Race of Mercy delivered life-saving medicine by dog sleds to Nome, Alaska when a diphtheria epidemic threatened the town.  The Continental Raliroad opened up the western U.S. for development in a way Conestoga Wagons could not.

Transportation that allows the spread of populations out of overcrowded cities can promote better health environments while still keeping access to centralized businesses and industry.  The speed of the transportation is an important factor in the feasability of living at a distance.

Fast transportation is not all good, nor all bad.  A new form of transportation that decreases carbon emissions, is more energy-efficient than existing options, and just happens to be faster should not be devalued simply because more speed is one of its benefits.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on March 26, 2018, 04:20:08 PM
How to fund Boring Company tunnels.  Merchandising!*

1. Hats
2. “Not-a-Flamethrower”s
3. Life-size LEGO bricks made from the tunnel rock!


Elon Musk:

“New Boring Company merch coming soon. Lifesize LEGO-like interlocking bricks made from tunneling rock that you can use to create sculptures & buildings. Rated for California seismic loads, so super strong, but bored in the middle, like an aircraft wing spar, so not heavy.”
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/978140940241059840

“First kit set will be ancient Egypt — pyramids, Sphinx, temple of Horus, etc”
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/978142114339995648

Affordable housing?

“Yeah, the boring bricks are interlocking with a precise surface finish, so two people could build the outer walls of a small house in a day or so”
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/978147162319085569


*Elon’s reference:  Spaceballs, the movie  ::)

(P.S.:  If you are thinking, “There was an ASIF comment a while ago about Boring Company bricks…” you are correct: :D
https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,256.msg140486.html#msg140486 )
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Archimid on March 26, 2018, 04:31:22 PM
Good lord, I love this man. Where people see muck he sees treasure.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on April 14, 2018, 05:05:23 PM
Tesla car in a Boring Tunnel!

Boring Company LA tunnel moves for exemption as Elon Musk brings a Tesla in the first tunnel
Quote
Now they are working on a different 2.7-mile tunnel in West Los Angeles for which the city has prepared a CEQA Notice of Exemption to accelerate the project.

According to the city, the proposed tunnel would begin with the entry/exit point at 2352-6 Sepulveda Boulevard, north of West Pico Boulevard, in West Los Angeles. The tunnel would run southward under Sepulveda Blvd. and would end, without surfacing, below the vicinity of the intersection of Sepulveda Blvd. and Washington Boulevard in Culver City. ...
https://electrek.co/2018/04/14/boring-company-la-tunnel-elon-musk-tesla/

Cross-posted in the Cars thread.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on April 17, 2018, 01:41:03 PM
90% is Musk’s money, rest is “early employees.”  No venture capitalist or investment firms were involved.

Elon Musk’s Boring Company raises $112.5 million for hyperloop and tunnel projects
https://electrek.co/2018/04/16/elon-musks-boring-company-capital-raise-hyperloop-tunnel-projects/
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Archimid on April 17, 2018, 02:39:39 PM
Musk must be the worst scammer in the world. Why would he fund 90% this scam with of his own money? Any seasoned scammer will tell you that the trick is to get others to give you money not the other way around. Pffft.  /s

I'm sure Elon could've easily find 100 million to start any company he wanted. All he has to do is give up a significant part of his ownership and the risk to him is highly diminished, but he prefers not to. He prefers to risk his own money. Sorry for sounding like a fanboy, but I find that admirable.

I think Musk actions reflect that money is nothing to him but a means to an end. He needs money to make things happen and he needs to make money so that the things he makes can be sustained. However making money for the sake of making money is certainly not his objective.

There are a million ways to make money that are easier and more profitable than a boring company.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Bob Wallace on April 17, 2018, 05:41:03 PM
Obviously Elon is salting the gold mine.

Negabirds know the truth.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on April 21, 2018, 01:18:10 AM
Los Angeles, California

Elon Musk’s Boring Co. proof-of-concept tunnel greenlit by LA committee
Quote
The Boring Company recently took a step forward in its goal of building a 2.7-mile proof-of-concept tunnel in Los Angeles, CA, with the City Council Public Works Committee exempting the tunneling startup from environmental review under the California Environmental Quality Act (CEQA). ...
https://www.teslarati.com/elon-musk-boring-co-proof-of-concept-tunnel-la-committee/
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on May 11, 2018, 04:56:31 PM
Elon Musk posted a video on Instagram of the ‘Loop (not Hyperloop) test tunnel under Los Angeles: 
Quote
First Boring Company tunnel under LA almost done! Pending final regulatory approvals, we will be offering free rides to the public in a few months.

Super huge thanks to everyone that helped with this project. Strong support from public, elected officials & regulators is critical to success.

As mentioned in prior posts, once fully operational (demo system rides will be free), the system will always give priority to pods for pedestrians & cyclists for less than the cost of a bus ticket.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BinoVT6Acpd/

Elon Musk Says Boring Company Will Offer Free Rides to the Public This Year
https://www.inverse.com/article/44750-boring-company-tunnel-video-shared-by-elon-musk


About those fund-raising projects....

It’s a kitchen appliance and not-a-flamethrower!  ;D

Boring Company Flamethrower is Ideal for Crème Brûlée, Bizarre Rules Claim
Elon Musk does not want you to burn your house down.
https://www.inverse.com/article/44755-boring-company-flamethrower
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Bob Wallace on May 11, 2018, 07:55:47 PM
Quote
less than the cost of a bus ticket

And at super-subway speeds.  If this system works as Elon thinks it will then we'll see a major decrease in urban congestion.  All the people going any appreciable distance will go underground, leaving the surface streets for short distance travel. 

I can see cities establishing large parking lots outside the crowded level and moving people into and out of the city underground.  Charge a large fee for taking your personal car in.

Or robotaxis at each end of underground runs for the last mile stuff.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on May 16, 2018, 08:52:59 PM
Elon Musk:  “Will be presenting & taking questions about The Boring Company plans for Los Angeles at 7pm on Thursday”

The Boring Company:  Livestream tomorrow 7pm [Pacific Time] at http://boringcompany.com
https://twitter.com/boringcompany/status/996823232144490496

From May 10:
https://electrek.co/2018/05/10/elon-musk-video-boring-companys-first-completed-tunnel-los-angeles/
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: rboyd on May 16, 2018, 09:34:08 PM
Isn't Elon supposed to be sleeping in the car production plant to get the lines whipped into shape?
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Bob Wallace on May 16, 2018, 09:37:24 PM
He's been there, done that.

Production seems to be close to or above 3,000 M3s per week. 

There are a couple of automation problems in the factory that are being temporarily covered by using humans.  There's currently a 'hackathon' happening to see if a wide variety of talented people can come up with good ways to automate these functions.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: rboyd on May 16, 2018, 09:46:42 PM
Its one thing to get production rates up (2,662 per week estimated by Bloomberg), another to do it profitably. That's much harder, and needs long-term focus. The doubling to 5,000 per week will bring a new host of problems (volume doublings always seem to do that, whether its a production line or computer software). The only proof will be the next quarterly report, then we will see. If Tesla still has negative EBITDA then things could get nasty very fast. I will stop commenting until then (or if something newsworthy happens in between).

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2018-tesla-tracker/ (https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2018-tesla-tracker/)
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Bob Wallace on May 16, 2018, 10:10:14 PM
2,662 per week at $45k per car and a 20% GPM = $1,245,816,000 annual earnings from M3 production.

Tesla's annual losses, including depreciation, have averaged $778,324,000 per year over the last five years. 

$1,245,816,000 M3 earnings - $778,324,000 average annual loss = $467,492,000 net profit.

Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: oren on May 16, 2018, 10:46:38 PM
I think these calculations are too simplistic. Gross margin isn't a static thing. When you overbuild automation and then put manual labor on overtime to replace some of it, your gross margin may not be what you expected it to be, and may actually turn negative under some circumstances.
I do believe Elon when he says he expects to turn cash flow positive in Q3, but I would feel much safer actually seeing it happen. But this really belongs in the cars thread.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Bob Wallace on May 16, 2018, 11:02:30 PM
Musk has stated that the GPM for M3s will be 25%.  I used 20%.

Currently the average selling price for M3s is around $50k. I used $45k.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on May 17, 2018, 02:33:07 AM
Isn't Elon supposed to be sleeping in the car production plant to get the lines whipped into shape?

It’s all good.

Musk’s new comfy, crowd-sourced/donated couch was delivered, so he should be sleeping better.  ;)
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-fans-elon-musk-new-couch-18k-charity/

And the Boring Company is buying Tesla equipment. 8)
https://teslamotorsclub.com/blog/2018/04/28/the-boring-company-bought-400000-worth-of-equipment-from-tesla/

Besides, he now has interns solving all his production problems for him, haven’t you heard?  ;D
https://electrek.co/2018/05/16/tesla-hires-canadian-interns-as-professional-problem-solvers-elon-musk/
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on May 17, 2018, 08:17:16 PM
Elon Musk’s Boring Co. to build concrete batch plant for tunnel “rings”
Quote
Elon Musk’s tunneling startup, The Boring Company, will use custom concrete rings for its tunneling projects. According to a request for tax exclusion that the company submitted to the California Alternative Energy and Advanced Transportation Financing Authority last December, the Boring Co. tunnels will use a type of concrete that is superior to the industry standard.

As stated in the company’s documents, The Boring Company intends to build a batch plant and a carousel system to manufacture and transport concrete rings — tunnel walls made up of multiple segments that are linked together. The tunneling startup expects that the rings it will be producing would be able to withstand earthquakes and over 100 years of continuous use.

The Boring Company noted that it would utilize “advanced materials” to manufacture its tunnels’ concrete walls. The concrete that the company intends to produce would be durable as well, with the startup stating that the segments are expected to reach strengths in excess of 6,500 pounds per square inch.

Apart from this, the startup’s concrete also has a setting time of just 1-7 days, substantially shorter than the industry standard of 28 days. The Boring Company further noted that the concrete it would be using is formulated in a way that would make the segments incredibly dense, making the Boring Co.’s rings less permeable and more resistant to corrosion.

The concrete rings for the Boring Company tunnels are only as effective as the machine that makes and sets them, however. In this light, the tunneling startup stated that it would be using a fully-automated carousel system that is designed to transport and set the concrete rings without human intervention.

“The system used to produce the concrete rings has been customized by The Boring Company, and the company represents that it is the world’s first fully-automated carousel system. This equipment requires precise engineering and will allow for higher precision and speeds than what is currently on the market, according to the TBC.

“Additionally, the fully-automated carousel will enable the production and transportation of the rings without human intervention, but The Boring Company represents that the process will still be monitored by staff for safety and quality from a control center. TBC represents this carousel system, and the specialized moulds will produce rings that are lighter than standard concrete rings, while maintaining their strength.”


The document also revealed that The Boring Co. would be making the manufacturing facility of the concrete rings fully electric. Apart from being more environmentally-friendly than conventional systems that use fossil fuels, an all-electric manufacturing process for the company’s concrete segments is expected to result in a 20% decrease in energy consumption. ...
https://www.teslarati.com/elon-musk-boring-company-concrete-rings-tunnels/
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Bob Wallace on May 17, 2018, 08:37:36 PM
I'm now 99% convinced that Elon is taking the Hyperloop underground.

If Boring can bring down the cost of tunneling anywhere close to what Elon has suggested then we may well see the largest infrastructure project ever.  And it may be privately financed. 

If the 'loop can run faster than airlines and cost to ride per mile is less than flying then it's Katy bar the door.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on May 18, 2018, 03:32:57 AM
I'm now 99% convinced that Elon is taking the Hyperloop underground.

If Boring can bring down the cost of tunneling anywhere close to what Elon has suggested then we may well see the largest infrastructure project ever.  And it may be privately financed. 

If the 'loop can run faster than airlines and cost to ride per mile is less than flying then it's Katy bar the door.

Just a note about nomenclature: Musk uses “Loop” to refer to his ~150 mph skate concept, versus a full vacuum “hyperloop.”  ;)
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on May 18, 2018, 03:41:49 AM
I'm now 99% convinced that Elon is taking the Hyperloop underground.

If Boring can bring down the cost of tunneling anywhere close to what Elon has suggested then we may well see the largest infrastructure project ever.  And it may be privately financed. 

If the 'loop can run faster than airlines and cost to ride per mile is less than flying then it's Katy bar the door.

 Going underground will avoid a lot of problems. Right-of-way land fights, conflicts with surface traffic, and adverse weather once the line is in operation, for starters.  Parking-space-sized entrances, rather than grand stations (or ramps) will also mean the system can be more easily integrated into existing infrastructure.

Elon Musk just retweeted a statement from the LA Metro, writing:
“Excited for @boringcompany partnership with LA Metro”
https://mobile.twitter.com/elonmusk/status/997279007933546497
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: sidd on May 18, 2018, 03:57:10 AM
"Right-of-way land fights"

I think most titles include rights underground in the USA, so regardles of whther he puts it above or belo, Musk will have to negotiate with landowners.

sidd
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Bob Wallace on May 18, 2018, 05:44:56 AM
"Right-of-way land fights"

I think most titles include rights underground in the USA, so regardles of whther he puts it above or belo, Musk will have to negotiate with landowners.

sidd

If the government judges the infrastructure to be in the national interest then routes could run underneath federal/state highways.  And/or eminent domain could be used to smooth the right of way process. 
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Bob Wallace on May 18, 2018, 07:36:27 AM
Quote
Elon Musk finally shed pulled back the curtain on where The Boring Company is headed. And, well, it's definitely not boring.

The billionaire entrepreneur on Thursday showed off his concept for the Loop, a "personalized mass transit" system that carries 16 people and travels at 150 miles per hour, which could get you from downtown Los Angeles to Los Angeles International Airport in eight minutes in a vacuum tube. His projected fare for people would be only $1. He also said he envisions dozens to hundreds of small stations, about the size of a sing

https://www.cnet.com/news/elon-musks-boring-company-wants-to-charge-1-for-a-150-mph-loop-ride-space-x-tesla/
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on May 18, 2018, 12:16:33 PM
"Right-of-way land fights"

I think most titles include rights underground in the USA, so regardles of whther he puts it above or belo, Musk will have to negotiate with landowners.

sidd

Many places in the U.S. specifically deny landowners underground rights, leaving them open to intrusion by mining and fracking without recompense.  Also:  pipelines.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on May 18, 2018, 12:20:52 PM
Elon Musk tweeted this is “the most boring presentation ever.”  :D

Here is last night’s talk, with a short Q&A at the end.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AwX9G38vdCE&feature=youtu.be

Screen cap below.

Edit:
CEQA: The California Environmental Quality Act
EIR:  Environmental Impact Report

“Personalized mass transportation”
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Archimid on May 18, 2018, 04:18:13 PM
Some one over at Reddit did this wonderful summary of the presentation SigmetNow linked. I think he got everything.

Quote
(I've of course probably missed something, skip all the way down to find out when Not a flamethrowers are coming. I bolded it.)

Ultimately, the boring company is trying to reduce traffic in cities. If flying cars was a good option, they'd take it, but they don't think it is, so they won't.

Human walking speed is 3 miles, snail speed .03, boring machine .003. Goal is to beat snail but future ultimate goal (someday) is to reach 1/10th Human speed or .3 miles an hour. 10x and 100x respectively.

They intend to do the following to increase speed (Or have): Put in struts as they dig, increasing speed by x3-x4, they've just tripled power, use batteries (tesla) to remove need for high voltage cable, put more into R&D in general.

Made an electric locomotive to haul shit tons of dirt using model 3 batteries. Makes it safer. Believe they have the largest battery electric locomotive but unsure.

Using dirt they dig to make concrete they use for struts

Making bricks that are pretty durable for 10 cents~ or so, stronger than cinder block, much more smooth, rated at 5000 PSI.

I dont... Lego or possibly pyramids out of the bricks? Joke or not was hard to tell.

General details for the loop such as: multi-level high speed system, with no "stops" just A to B and vice versa (I think, little fuzzy on this), costs 1$ per passenger, hundreds to eventually thousands of stations.

Hyper loop details: 16 passengers (Focus on public transportation), 700 mph, LA to SF in 30 minutes, all electric (of course, it's elon).

They have actually made a test hyperloop, going to 300 miles an hour, vacuum tunnel, .8 miles long by spacex. Continuing to improve on it.

They said they do a hyperloop competition each year. This is the first I think I've heard it suggested that they'll do one each year.

Planning to take passengers soon on test tunnels (known) but the purpose is because they're unsure the best way to proceed without community feedback.

Want to connect with the metro lines in LA

showed a preview of kinda a loop transit for bigger locations, where there was like 8 different loop "buses"

(Thought this was interesting) A lot of people working at the boring company are either ex-SpaceX employees or current Spacex employees.

I am going to take a pause in between because they answered a lot of questions next:

Q: Will you run into utilities?

A. No. We are below the utilities, no moles, no worms, just pure rock. 30 minimum feet below the surface.

Q. Will you use the test tunnels for public transit?

A: For community feedback, technically could be used like transit, but not priority to be used as a transport system atm.

Q: Earthquakes and sinkhole?

A: Earthquakes are like waves on the ocean. It'd be like a hurricane on the surface but while being in a submarine. It's safer in a (properly made) tunnel. Earthquakes are a non issue.

Sink holes: Low concern, Extreme safety. We have machines in place to monitor movement of dirt and immediately take care if there's any concern. Properly made (tunnels), like the metro, are built with them in mind.

Q. Are you going to conflict with the metro system?

A. No. Our tunnels go below the metro ones, no interference.

Q. CEQA? (I don't know what this is but environmental)

A. We will be submitting environmental impact report and have submitted a publically available 1600 page report for the exception we were given to build the tunnel.

Q. Induced demand?

A: (skipped? I didn't see an answer.)

Now it switched to community questions:

Q. What engineering challenges are you expecting from drilling underwater and are you considering using immersed tube tunnels?

A. Looking long term in hyper loop, the seal will prevent all water, gas and won't have an issue.

Q. How much will it cost to travel to LAx to Sherman oaks

A. 1$

Q. utilities, you sure?

A. We will just go as deep as need be.

Q. When are we going to get not a flamethrowers?

A. Soon, encountering delivery challenges. But we have a solution. Starting delivery in two weeks

Q. What techniques did you learn from modifying the gadot(first machine) that were able to apply to linestorm (second machine).

A. Linestorm is a hybrid between old and a proof rock (different machine). Proof rock is aspirationally, a very different type of boring machine 10x faster. Linestorm is to modify segment direction, lot more automation, continued drilling. Having a passing lane helps.

Q. where will the entrances and exits be, will that cause traffic?

A. there will be a lot, the size of a parked car, all throughout the city. Because there isn't a mass dump of people, it won't be a major traffic problem.

Q. Will boring company be willing to do a full EIR (?).

A. Yes, for a much larger system, just will take a long while to make it, submit it, have it approved, etc. It could take years.

Q. Will you organize a big party before tunnel launch?

A. Quote "Of course." - elon.

https://www.reddit.com/r/BoringCompany/comments/8kbh70/this_is_what_we_learned_from_the_recent/
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Bob Wallace on May 18, 2018, 07:08:54 PM
One cost saving measure is to make concrete on site. 

Another is to make and sell blocks from spoils for 10 cents.  This would be a huge gain over having to pay to haul away and dump spoils. 

The blocks have the potential to be much better than standard concrete blocks and much cheaper.  Interlocking blocks would mean that walls could be dry stacked (no mortar between blocks) and then concrete could be pumped into the wall from the top to lock the blocks in place.  Huge labor savings.

This, to me, is a way in which Elon (and team) do things differently.  Rather than costing out the project and figuring out what it will cost to get rid of the spoils as construction companies would do Boring thought about how to deal with the spoils in a no-cost or even profit making manner.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: TerryM on May 18, 2018, 07:52:13 PM
OT
Space X is postponing launch of the new GRACE satellites until the 22nd or 23d.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/spacex-launch-nasa-iridium-satellites-120000994.html

I'm sure everything will go off without a hitch, but I wish they were using a more reliable system.
Space X may prove to be the future of rocketry, but today there are proven technologies with far higher rates of success.
Space X claims ~96% success, but the last 20 years of manned flights run ~ 99.4%. Why take any chances with such a valuable load?
Terry
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on May 18, 2018, 08:05:51 PM
That Reddit summary, while detailed, is only fair — the writer doesn’t seem terribly familiar with Musk’s/The Boring Company’s past activities.  For example, Musk has tweeted that the pyramid bricks will definitely be a thing; not a joke.

Here’s Electrek’s article, with a bit more:
Elon Musk releases more details about the Boring Company’s plan: $1 fare personalized mass transit
https://electrek.co/2018/05/18/boring-company-elon-musk-transit-system-los-angeles/

I love their electric locomotive — with pockets!  :D
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on May 18, 2018, 08:46:49 PM
OT
Space X is postponing launch of the new GRACE satellites until the 22nd or 23d.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/spacex-launch-nasa-iridium-satellites-120000994.html

I'm sure everything will go off without a hitch, but I wish they were using a more reliable system.
Space X may prove to be the future of rocketry, but today there are proven technologies with far higher rates of success.
Space X claims ~96% success, but the last 20 years of manned flights run ~ 99.4%. Why take any chances with such a valuable load?
Terry

Let’s start with SpaceX being half the price of a comparable ULA launch.  Doing more launches per year.  With technology not available elsewhere (the SpaceX Dragon is the only capsule that can return large amounts of cargo/specimens/mice back to earth from the International Space Station— the Soyuz has only a tiny cargo return capacity — all other cargo capsules burn up during reentry). 

Manned flights require vastly different safeguards than for satellites, so of course the statistics are different.  Musk mentioned the “thousands and thousands and thousands” of requirements for the new Falcon 9 Block 5 rocket to be certified for eventual human flight.  While no other company or government has returned a rocket to earth from orbit, SpaceX has landed 25 successfully.  SpaceX has already launched 50 — count ’em, 50! — satellites for Iridium (the main customer for Tuesday’s launch, along with two NASA GRACE follow-on satellites).  They seem quite satisfied with SpaceX’s performance.  Iridium said recently they are racing to keep up with SpaceX’s increasing launch availability, so they can complete their satellite constellation as soon as possible.

Slightly back on topic, the head of The Boring Company formerly worked for SpaceX, many of the other TBC employees are also from there, and they make use of SpaceX’s knowledge and experience.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: ghoti on May 18, 2018, 09:02:08 PM
Terry the delay is due to the Air Force range not being ready not because of Iridium, Grace, or SpaceX. But it is easy to blame SpaceX for all delays.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Tor Bejnar on May 18, 2018, 09:54:22 PM
Making bricks of the spoils will make different types of bricks in different places: a brick made of limestone crumbs will be very different from one made of quartzite crumbs or basalt crumbs.  I don't think I'd want a brick made from odoriferous (oil) shale.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on May 18, 2018, 10:22:53 PM
Making bricks of the spoils will make different types of bricks in different places: a brick made of limestone crumbs will be very different from one made of quartzite crumbs or basalt crumbs.  I don't think I'd want a brick made from odoriferous (oil) shale.

I wondered about that.  Maybe the spoil only makes up a limited percent of the brick recipe?  And the special “finish” the bricks have will seal in any flavors smells?
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Archimid on May 18, 2018, 10:27:26 PM
Terry M. The good thing is that the GRACE satellites are going up in a flight proven core. The unknowns are highly reduced. The "more reliable" rockets you are talking about are brand new. Any manufacturing defect is just waiting waiting to be found.

Tor Bejnar: I was wondering about that too. I assume that the difference might be in the manufacturing process. That I know off the typical brick is made with heat and cement, Boring bricks are made with high pressure and cement. Maybe the high pressure guarantees minimum metrics like load capacity. Mass  will certainly be different between blocks of different materials but maybe the difference is so small that it doesn't matter.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: TerryM on May 18, 2018, 11:05:49 PM
Terry the delay is due to the Air Force range not being ready not because of Iridium, Grace, or SpaceX. But it is easy to blame SpaceX for all delays.
Not so.
From my earlier link.

Iridium representatives said Monday (May 14) that the launch would slip by two days, to give SpaceX time to deal with a "minor processing issue" associated with the two-stage Falcon 9, according to Spaceflight Now (https://spaceflightnow.com/2018/05/16/new-target-dates-set-for-next-two-falcon-9-launches/).

This 2 day postponement for Space X to deal with their 'minor processing issue', lead to a further delay of one day from Vandenberg over 'range issues'.

Sig,

It's not any possible cost savings, or the possibility of landing a rocket back on earth that concern me. I don't want the new GRACE satellites to be lost, and I'm aware that other systems have a lower rate of failure.
The last time this one flew the spy satellite didn't make orbit - good!


Mar,1, 2013 - problems with dragon capsule caused 1 day late arrival at ISS
June 28, 2015 - explosion and total load loss
Sept 1, 2016 - explosion during test fuling, total load lost
April 10, 2018 - Zuma is lost, not Space X's fault.

I don't want Space X to stop development nor to cease launching satellites. I do think the new GRACE units are too important to launch on anything but the most reliable launch vehicle.
Terry
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on May 19, 2018, 01:22:10 AM
Quote
I don't want Space X to stop development nor to cease launching satellites. I do think the new GRACE units are too important to launch on anything but the most reliable launch vehicle.
Terry

But what if the twice-the-price, “most reliable launch vehicle“ made the entire program too expensive to do at all? 

What if the other company’s limited flight schedule meant a delay in launching that risks the entire program being scrapped by a Congress whose “Science Committee” thinks Sea Level Rise is caused by rocks falling into the ocean? 

Risks have to be balanced.  Insurance would cover satellite loss.  The causes of the previous SpaceX failures are well known, and changes have been made as a result. 

Most importantly, NASA knows the risks better than anyone, yet it chose to go with SpaceX.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: TerryM on May 19, 2018, 03:17:04 AM
Sig
They began building this pair in Feb. 2013, and continuity with the GRACE data is an important consideration. If these go boom it will take years to build replacements and any hope of a continuous data set will be lost.
They were originally to have been launched on a Russian/Ukrainian rocket, but that partnership ended in 2015. I've no idea why one of the very venerable, and extremely reliable Soyuz rockets isn't being utilized,  (over 950 flights since 1966, and the only launch vehicle cleared for taking humans into space), but I suspect that it has more to do with politics than with concerns over costs or reliability.

There is probably less than a one in twenty chance that anything will go wrong so I'm almost certainly worrying over nothing, but I will sleep easier after learning that everything went off without a hitch. :P
Terry
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Archimid on May 19, 2018, 02:13:38 PM
Wow just 10 Model S to offset a Falcon 9? I was expecting more. Model 3 is more efficient than Model S, so it would probably take less than 10 Model 3 to offset an F9 launch. That means that at  the current rate of 3.5k Model 3 a week, Tesla offsets 350 F9 launches a week. Not bad at all.

I wonder how those emissions cancellations work when Space X starts making its fuel from the Sun, water and ambient CO2, like they need to do to return from Mars.

I also wonder how many Loop trips are needed to cancel out an F9 launch.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on May 19, 2018, 04:11:53 PM
...
I also wonder how many Loop trips are needed to cancel out an F9 launch.

Good question.  Because — besides offsetting the emissions of those pedestrians and cyclists who would have otherwise chosen ICE cars or buses for their trip — the Loop will, for the brief period the journey entails, transform any ICE car it is transporting into an EV!

Edit:  Although more important than the time duration of the trip is how many ICE miles (or kilometers!  ;) ) are offset.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on June 14, 2018, 01:33:20 PM
The Boring Company:  ”We’re really excited to work with the Mayor and the City to bring this new high-speed public transportation system to Chicago!”
https://twitter.com/boringcompany/status/10071193744092733

Chicago Tribune:  Chicago has selected Elon Musk’s Boring Company to build high-speed transit tunnels between the Loop and O’Hare.
https://twitter.com/chicagotribune/status/1007090460240891905

Quote
In choosing Boring, Emanuel and senior City Hall officials are counting on Musk’s highly touted but still unproven tunneling technology over the more traditional high-speed rail option that until recently had been envisioned as the answer to speeding up the commute between the city’s central business district and one of the world’s busiest airports.

Emanuel and Boring officials said it’s too early to provide a timeline for the project’s completion or its estimated cost, but they said Boring would pay for the entire project. That would include the construction of a new station at O’Hare and the completion of the mothballed superstation built at Block 37 under previous Mayor Richard M. Daley, who like Emanuel pushed for high-speed rail access to O’Hare.
...
Under the proposal, passengers would be able to travel from the Loop to O’Hare in just 12 minutes at an estimated cost of $20 to $25 per ride. A final route for the high-speed tunnels is still subject to negotiations, and a Boring official and Deputy Mayor Robert Rivkin declined to identify where it might run.
...
All told, Boring has estimated the project will cost less than $1 billion, according to a source familiar with the company’s proposal but not authorized to speak publicly because of ongoing negotiations.

In exchange for paying to build the new transit system, Boring would keep the revenue from the system’s transit fees and any money generated by advertisements, branding and in-vehicle sales, Rivkin and the company said. Ownership of the twin tunnels has not been determined, but the Emanuel administration plans to seek a long-term lease to Musk’s company, a source familiar with the proposal said.
...
In the Loop system, 16-passenger vehicles would have both vertical and horizontal wheels. Boring officials stress the vehicles are “confined” and will “not be a car on auto drive.”

Those eight “guiding wheels” will run along a nearly 18-mile track. The four vertical wheels would be similar to traditional tires on a car running along a concrete shelf on the ground. Four additional wheels on the sides of the vehicle would likely be made of steel with a polyurethane coating and would help move the vehicle by running along concrete curbs along the tunnel’s walls.

“It is not on any kind of auto steering,” the official said. “It is a mechanical operation where the guide wheels turn the vehicle.”

The “skates,” as Musk and others call them, would be able to reach top speeds of 150 mph in the tunnels’ straight stretches while speeds would be reduced around curves, according to Boring.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/politics/ct-met-ohare-high-speed-transit-elon-musk-boring-company-20180613-story.html
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on June 14, 2018, 01:35:11 PM
(Cross-posted from the Cars thread.)

This pdf on tunnel boring machines (TBM) may be of interest.  Different machine heads/types are used to work on different materials.  Pressure can be maintained in front of the drill head as necessary to deal with water or slurry.  Note: The Boring Company has significantly re-engineered the traditional TBM; I am not aware of the exact design of the new machine, but major improvements should be expected.

https://www.imia.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/TBM-WG60-f-021209.pdf

Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Bob Wallace on June 14, 2018, 04:57:32 PM
If Boring has worked out a way to make Loop projects profitable with private financing I expect a lot of cities are going to be beating down their doors. 

Some traffic congestion relief for no cost to the municipality.  That's got to be hugely attractive.  I am disappointed to see the cost that high.  But from downtown to the airport is likely see most of the tickets purchased by businesses.

NPR report just stated 40 minutes by surface streets, 12 minutes by Loop.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on June 14, 2018, 06:31:35 PM
Your Boring hat and not-a-flamethrower dollars at work!  ;)

The article says $20-25 for a Loop ride is half the cost of a typical ride-share or cab ride to O’Hare.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: SteveMDFP on June 14, 2018, 08:22:39 PM
Your Boring hat and not-a-flamethrower dollars at work!  ;)

The article says $20-25 for a Loop ride is half the cost of a typical ride-share or cab ride to O’Hare.

On the other hand, Loop to O'Hare by surface train transit costs $3 for a 40-ish minute ride, no transfers.
People will be paying a substantial premium to save a bit of time.  If they use the tunnel to bring their car, there may be significant parking costs and traffic delays to park.
Use may be limited to the affluent, people in a rush, and people who want the thrill of going 150 mph through a tunnel.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Bob Wallace on June 14, 2018, 08:53:02 PM
Businesses commonly pay for their people to take cabs/Uber rather than mass transit.  They fly their people business class.

If only business people take the Chicago Loop to the airport that's fewer cars on the road. 

The Loop or Hyperloop are not "the" solutions to low carbon transportation.  They are parts of the solution.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on June 14, 2018, 09:01:45 PM
Your Boring hat and not-a-flamethrower dollars at work!  ;)

The article says $20-25 for a Loop ride is half the cost of a typical ride-share or cab ride to O’Hare.

On the other hand, Loop to O'Hare by surface train transit costs $3 for a 40-ish minute ride, no transfers.
People will be paying a substantial premium to save a bit of time.  If they use the tunnel to bring their car, there may be significant parking costs and traffic delays to park.
Use may be limited to the affluent, people in a rush, and people who want the thrill of going 150 mph through a tunnel.

No mention of transporting personal cars at this point.  Only using “confined,” “Autonomous 16-passenger vehicles.”

Much later edit:  The O’Hare station will be located in the new terminal they are building, which will no doubt be designed to handle future car traffic arriving via the Loop.

Quote
Use may be limited to the affluent, people in a rush, and people who want the thrill of going 150 mph through a tunnel.
And people who don’t like the train. ;)
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: TerryM on June 14, 2018, 09:09:31 PM
If I need a cab to get me from the loop to my car or my room I might prefer to take a cab for the entire journey, particularly if I had lots of luggage and my boss was picking up the tab. :)
Terry
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on June 14, 2018, 09:13:25 PM
If I need a cab to get me from the loop to my car or my room I might prefer to take a cab for the entire journey, particularly if I had lots of luggage and my boss was picking up the tab. :)
Terry

Makes sense... until the Autonomous Loop Car can leave the track at the Loop station and take you all the way to your destination. :) 
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on June 14, 2018, 09:16:13 PM
(Unfinished) Block 37 station definitely could use some work.  ;)

https://mobile.twitter.com/boringcompany/status/1007335675119665153

Photo: Elon Musk about to give a presentation there.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on June 14, 2018, 09:18:27 PM
Meanwhile, back in the California tunnel:

“Green lights to Malibu”
https://mobile.twitter.com/boringcompany/status/1007325971689758720
11-second video at the link.


Edit:  what was not clear in the low-res Twitter video is that the car is using those extra metal guide wheels against curbs and rails, as described in the Chicago Tribune article.  This article has a clearer copy:
https://electrek.co/2018/06/14/tesla-model-x-rails-elon-musk-boring-company-tunnel/

This also shows that the “skates” for the Chicago Loop project could be relatively cheap — think a slightly larger Model X chassis and a simple body with seats, a display screen, environmental equipment, and little else.  Not at all like an expensive bus.  And this is not a new idea — Musk years ago mentioned the surprising amount of space available using the Model X chassis as a base for a new kind of transportation.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on June 14, 2018, 09:26:34 PM
Bloomberg considers the economic aspects of the Chicago project.

“We’ve used up so much of our taxing and debt capabilities.  For us, we’ve got to do whatever we can to extract help from the private sector.”

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-06-14/chicago-hounded-by-woes-sees-musk-s-train-as-win-for-economy
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: jai mitchell on June 15, 2018, 05:54:07 AM
Elon Musk announcement for new chicago underground service to O'hare airport

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6G2TUYe3eg
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Bob Wallace on June 15, 2018, 08:04:19 AM
And Elon says that the Loop will transition in to the Hyperloop.

Confirmed.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on June 15, 2018, 01:17:57 PM
Tesla will make the pods.  And the timeline should be faster than most such projects.
Quote
Musk plans for the startup to start digging from both downtown Chicago and from the airport, which should result in a faster completion of the tunnel.

“Aspirationally,” Musk wants the Loop to be ready “within 18 to 24 months”, but he said that it could take longer though it’s “unlikely” going to take more than 3 years, he said.
https://electrek.co/2018/06/15/tesla-build-pod-boring-company-loop-elon-musk/
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: numerobis on June 15, 2018, 02:41:18 PM
2-3 Musk years. We’ll see what that means in calendar years.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Bob Wallace on June 15, 2018, 04:41:32 PM
Elon gave an aspirational timeline, which is his normal estimation technique.  His aspirational timelines are a 'best case if we work very hard and nothing major goes wrong'.

This time he also gave a 'bad case' time limit that he thinks covers reasonable problems.  I don't think he's done that before.  Perhaps he feels it advisable since some people refuse to understand his aspirational timelines.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on June 15, 2018, 08:38:17 PM
Will post this here since the title of the thread specifically mentions Musk. :)

Musk receives no salary, and he refuses the minimum wage payments required by the state of California.  He has said that his only reason for accumulating wealth now is to finance his Mars plans, so he’s not dependent on the government or other people’s money.  (Note also that The Boring Company will entirely finance the Chicago Loop project — the city is not investing anything, although they want to share in any “significant” profits....)

Norbert Elekes recently compared well-known CEO’s compensation to their average worker’s pay (image below), and Musk responded:
Quote
My “pay” is in options, which only matter if stock goes up & I sell. Will use that to make life multiplanetary, help education & environment on Earth w my foundation. Just don’t want us to be sad about the future.
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1007647898161463297

Elon Musk plans to sell ‘major’ stake in Tesla in ‘about 20 years’ to finance SpaceX’s Mars plans
https://electrek.co/2018/06/15/elon-musk-plan-sell-major-stake-tesla-finance-spacex-mars-plans/
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Bob Wallace on June 15, 2018, 08:41:44 PM
Out of that list only two(?) CEOs built the company they are running.

The others are just employees of companies created by someone else.

We need to get back to the ~30x spread that was common when the middle class was doing well in the US.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on June 15, 2018, 08:49:08 PM
Out of that list only two(?) CEOs built the company they are running.

The others are just employees of companies created by someone else.

We need to get back to the ~30x spread that was common when the middle class was doing well in the US.

Ben & Jerry's (ice cream company) limited their pay to 5 to 1 over worker pay — but could find no one to replace them with that restriction when they retired.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: numerobis on June 16, 2018, 03:18:27 PM
Musk, Bezos, and Zuckerberg are extremely rich — not off their salaries but off stock appreciation. They get paid mostly in stocks, then the stock goes up. The “salary” is the market value when the shares were issued, but they accepted that compensation with the expectation it would appreciate a lot afterwards.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: gerontocrat on June 16, 2018, 03:31:21 PM
Musk, Bezos, and Zuckerberg are extremely rich — not off their salaries but off stock appreciation. They get paid mostly in stocks, then the stock goes up. The “salary” is the market value when the shares were issued, but they accepted that compensation with the expectation it would appreciate a lot afterwards.

As Warren Buffett pointed out - he pays a lower tax percentage than his secretary as his loot is from Capital Gains.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: zizek on June 16, 2018, 10:12:44 PM
Elon Musk is making billions in stock awards, and people still find a way to congratulate him for bucking the trend on CEO pay. The best part is, he laid off 10% of his company in order to increase valuation of Tesla, something which he gets handsomely paid for between share prices and stock grants.

Imagine being laid off so your boss can make literally billions of dollars, then people go on twitter to congratulate how little he pays himself.   And then when he gets called out on it, he justifies his immense wealth accumulation for his space adventures which are heavily subsidized by the government which you pay taxes to.




Imagine living in a world were a man can claim to be humble while attempting to become one of the richest men in the world. Oh, it's reality.
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/21/tesla-shareholders-approve-elon-musks-multibilion-dollar-compensation-plan.html


Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on June 16, 2018, 10:26:45 PM
Here’s a recent article summarizing The Boring Company:  https://www.nasdaq.com/article/everything-you-need-to-know-about-elon-musks-not-so-boring-company-cm979283

At the press conference, Musk said they will start digging as soon as they get the OK, which should be in three to four months, and be finished possibly as soon as two years.  (Also that the majority of businesses working on the project are woman, minority, or veteran owned.  Some union, some not.)


Today’s tunnel boring machines dig at the rate of about 0.003 miles per hour.  Musk thinks TBC can speed that up by a factor of 10, to 0.03 miles per hour. (See details in article.)

There are 17,531 hours in two years.  Although Musk plans to dig continuously, removing dirt and placing support arches on the fly, let’s say the machine only ends up digging the equivalent of one day a week.  That’s 2,504 hours.  2,504 hours times 0.03 miles per hour is 75 miles.  The Chicago Loop route is 18 miles.  And Musk said they will begin digging from both ends.  Two years may be “aspirational,” but the math works.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on June 18, 2018, 07:10:35 PM
Elon Musk’s Boring Company could be worth $16B after Chicago-O’Hare tunnel
https://www.teslarati.com/elon-musk-boring-company-16-billion-chicago-ohare-tunnel/
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on June 26, 2018, 08:48:25 PM
Cool depiction of existing tunnels under London.

Someone drew the Tube map on an aerial photo of London and it's totally mesmerising
https://mashable.com/2018/06/26/aerial-photo-london-tube/
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on July 06, 2018, 01:28:28 AM
“A source familiar with the matter says that this new system is still in Hawthorne, California, where The Boring Company is based, but it will be moved to Chicago.”

So... a rail, and a concrete foundation?

Elon Musk’s Boring Company unveils first image of gantry system for Chicago’s Loop
https://electrek.co/2018/07/05/elon-musk-boring-company-first-image-gantry-system-chicago-loop/

Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on July 13, 2018, 08:50:29 PM
The Boring Company:  “Bricks!”
https://mobile.twitter.com/boringcompany/status/1017769225555972096
Image below; video clip at the link.

Edit:  article:
Elon Musk’s Boring Company unveils bricks being produced from dirt dug in its tunnels
https://electrek.co/2018/07/13/elon-musk-boring-company-bricks-dirt-tunnels/
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on July 26, 2018, 01:37:48 AM
The Boring Co. secures land in major LA corridor for upcoming Loop station
Quote
The Boring Company has secured a parcel of land in West Los Angeles for a future Loop station along its first LA-route. As could be seen in recent sale records and filings with the office of the Secretary of State of the State of California, Elon Musk’s tunneling startup under the entity name “TBC – The Boring Company” secured a commercial-zoned property located at 2352-2356 S Sepulveda Boulevard in April of this year. 

The property lies along the path of the Boring Company’s proposed 6.5-mile long proof-of-concept tunnel that would run from northeast Westchester to Brentwood, one of the most traffic-congested sections in the West Los Angeles area. The tunnel system, a section of which seems to be nearing completion based on recent social media teasers from The Boring Company, would run under Sepulveda Blvd. and right across Culver City. ...
https://www.teslarati.com/the-boring-company-west-la-loop-station-location/
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on August 14, 2018, 02:21:34 PM
The Boring Company on Twitter: "We are hosting student tours of the Hawthorne tunnel site for schools in LA County! Each tour can accommodate up to 30 students. Interested faculty (or students with a faculty sponsor!) can reach out to studenttours@boringcompany.com"
https://mobile.twitter.com/boringcompany/status/1029267748377907200
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on August 16, 2018, 01:38:41 PM
Los Angeles, California

BREAKING: @elonmusk’s @boringcompany will build a 3.6 mile tunnel from East Hollywood to Dodger Stadium that can carry 1,500 fans to the game in four minutes versus the more than an hour those fans spend traveling by car to the game today. pic.twitter.com/v9joUxbsrE
https://twitter.com/darrenrovell/status/1029915224063848448

The Boring Company is excited to announce Dugout Loop – a high-speed, zero-emissions, underground public transportation system, allowing fans to get from the Red Line to Dodger Stadium in under 4 minutes!

Quote
Who is paying for this?
The Boring Company. This project will be 100% privately funded and will require zero taxpayer dollars.

Is this for cars or people?
People. We are prioritizing pedestrians and cyclists.

How long will the Dugout Loop trip take?
Just under 4 minutes

How much will a Dugout Loop trip cost?
The fares are not finalized but will cost around $1.

How do I buy a ticket?
Initially, riders will be able to reserve times and purchase Dugout Loop tickets in advance similar to booking seats at a movie theater via a mobile app, over the phone, or in person (e.g. 5:45pm PT Dugout Loop ticket).

How long will construction last?
Construction of the tunnel and the two loop lifts is expected to last up to 14 months (likely much less). Construction of the ventilation shafts is expected to take approximately 6 weeks and will be constructed concurrently with development of the tunnel. ...
https://www.boringcompany.com/dugout

Mayor Eric Garcetti (@MayorOfLA)
8/15/18, 10:18 PM
Always exciting to see innovative ideas like the proposed Dugout Loop to @Dodgers Stadium that could help ease congestion on our roads and make our most iconic destinations more accessible to everyone.
https://twitter.com/mayorofla/status/1029915350500962304
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: TerryM on August 16, 2018, 07:24:49 PM
Sig
Is it being claimed that if 1,500 people are prepared to board at say 4:00 PM, they'll then disembark at the ballpark by 4:04?
I believe that the Chinese, Japanese and possibly some European centers have HSR systems in place where this is rather routine - but I don't think this is what Elon is proposing. Isn't his proposal rather that a small group of people can be loaded into a "pod", which will then whisk them to their destination in 4 minutes?
If each pod carried an average of 25 people it would require in excess of 60 pods to simultaneously load, accelerate, decelerate and disembark - all within the same 4 minute time frame.
Not saying it can't be done, rather that it sounds like more of a job for HSR. :)
Terry
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on August 16, 2018, 07:48:08 PM
Terry,
This is still using the “skate” design, 8 to 16 people each.  It’s by reservation only, (phone, internet, or in person), so the flexibility comes with the scheduling — because the trip takes only 4 minutes, skates will leave pretty much continuously.  There’s only one-way traffic, and one tunnel (at least for now!), so either:  100 cars all follow each other to the stadium (14 people x 100 pods = 1,400), where they park, then all gradually start returning, as reserved, after mid-game....  Or there could be, say, 10 minutes of pods delivering passengers, then 5 to 10 minutes of empty pods returning.  They are still figuring that out.  (I’m betting 100 autonomous pod parking would take up less space than we think — could be on several [underground] levels, and, unlike parking garages, no wasted space needed between cars or as travel lanes.)

Elon Musk's Boring Company Is Planning a Tunnel to Dodger Stadium | WIRED
Quote
This project is just a single tunnel, meaning the service can only run one way at a time. It’ll stage a number of skates at one end and sell tickets with fixed departure times. When fans turn up (hopefully riding the Metro, biking, or walking), they’ll pile into the 8- to 16-passenger pods, which will whisk them through the tunnel. The skates will then be parked at the other end. After the game or concert, they run the other way.

Bookings for seats will be limited to 1,400 people per event at first, about 2.5 percent of stadium capacity. (The company’s still figuring out if it’ll need about 100 skates, or if it can work in batches of 12 to 15, sending the empty pods back to fetch more people.)
https://www.wired.com/story/elon-musk-boring-company-tunnel-los-angeles-dodger-stadium/
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Tor Bejnar on August 16, 2018, 10:06:08 PM
The 'parking area' could be the end of the in-process-of-being-dug return part of the loop.  Once the return loop is finished, then returning empty pods could return 'slowly' if there are more pods than loading docks. 

With 10 loading docks [think one air terminal with 10 airplanes with 10 moveable tunnels going from waiting area to each plane, only pairs of double doors (pod and dock airlocks) instead of moveable tunnels, gates a little more than a pod's length apart, and the whole thing automated], ten pods could be filled and sent on their way simultaneously (or nearly so), delivering 16 x 10 people in 4 minutes (or so). (With vacuums in the tunnel, the pods won't have to wait for settling air or anything other than electricity usage.)  Add half a minute for loading and moving new pods into place, and you get 100 pods (up to 1,600 people) from A to B in 45 minutes.  (If you only had 50 pods, then add 5 minutes or so to get all 50 back to the starting docks.) Halve the time if you have 20 loading docks.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on August 16, 2018, 10:59:12 PM
The 'parking area' could be the end of the in-process-of-being-dug return part of the loop.  Once the return loop is finished, then returning empty pods could return 'slowly' if there are more pods than loading docks. 

With 10 loading docks [think one air terminal with 10 airplanes with 10 moveable tunnels going from waiting area to each plane, only pairs of double doors (pod and dock airlocks) instead of moveable tunnels, gates a little more than a pod's length apart, and the whole thing automated], ten pods could be filled and sent on their way simultaneously (or nearly so), delivering 16 x 10 people in 4 minutes (or so). (With vacuums in the tunnel, the pods won't have to wait for settling air or anything other than electricity usage.)  Add half a minute for loading and moving new pods into place, and you get 100 pods (up to 1,600 people) from A to B in 45 minutes.  (If you only had 50 pods, then add 5 minutes or so to get all 50 back to the starting docks.) Halve the time if you have 20 loading docks.

Yes!  A tunnel extension long enough for a line of parked pods could easily be part of the original dig. (Although the rendering shows the pods sitting together near the “Lyft.”  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯  )
No vaccuums in these tunnels, though.  This is Loop, not Hyperloop.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: oren on August 16, 2018, 11:10:57 PM
So this tunnel's gross revenue is $3000 per Dodgers game? This may be privately funded but it certainly is not returning the investment in any way.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on August 16, 2018, 11:13:31 PM
So this tunnel's gross revenue is $3000 per Dodgers game? This may be privately funded but it certainly is not returning the investment in any way.

It’s a proof-of-concept.  Profit from the future projects that it will inspire will more than pay for it.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: oren on August 16, 2018, 11:22:43 PM
I wonder if there is a business plan for these future profits, and if it involves taxpayer money, higher ticket prices, or some secret magic? I understand this is a POC but it's kind of misleading (for me, not in a legal sense) when it's privately funded and only costs $1, and it makes it sound like this is the real cost of the system, while in reality the $1 is a teaser money-losing price with some unknown plan behind it.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: TerryM on August 17, 2018, 01:28:21 AM
Add half a minute for loading and moving new pods into place, and you get 100 pods (up to 1,600 people) from A to B in 45 minutes.  (If you only had 50 pods, then add 5 minutes or so to get all 50 back to the starting docks.) Halve the time if you have 20 loading docks.
If A is 3.6 miles from B, the 1600 fans could march to the stadium in ~55 min, or speed there by bicycle, roller skate or skateboard. The old or infirm could race ahead in provided powered wheelchairs. 8)


Younger fans would love the "pipe" effects with their boards and skates. Grandparents would be kept away from fast moving vehicles, while mom and pop could either enjoy a quick respite from a busy day in a wheel chair, or get in some much needed exercise after a long day at the office.
Pipe in a little fresh air and music, don't forget to leave the lights on, and think of the energy savings.


We might even be able to re-purpose the Los Angeles River Channel as an open top tunnel - if the river has water in it the game has been called on account of rain!


https://spotterup.com/the-soldiers-ideal-speed/
Terry
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on August 17, 2018, 01:28:53 AM
I wonder if there is a business plan for these future profits, and if it involves taxpayer money, higher ticket prices, or some secret magic? I understand this is a POC but it's kind of misleading (for me, not in a legal sense) when it's privately funded and only costs $1, and it makes it sound like this is the real cost of the system, while in reality the $1 is a teaser money-losing price with some unknown plan behind it.

The Boring Company is also funding the big Chicago “O’Hare Airport to Downtown” Loop project without taxpayer dollars.  In fact, the city wants to be sure it gets a cut of future profits.

I agree this is startlingly different from the way most infrastructure programs usually work — but Musk doesn’t think about profit the way most companies do. :)  He’s willing to take a chance on new technology because he’s optimistic about it being better for the customer and better for the planet.  If it were anyone else doing this, I would probably have the same doubts you have!  But he’s the one who couldn’t persuade the Russians to sell him a rocket, so he whipped up a spreadsheet and decided he could just build one himself.  And now SpaceX is a multi-billion-dollar company.  It’s easy to think tunnels and Loops could be just as successful.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: GoSouthYoungins on August 17, 2018, 02:27:23 AM
The projections made by the boring company are absurd.

BREAKING: Boring Company announces LA to NYC 2,500 mile tunnel. Travel time will be 19 minutes. Project will be completed in 14 weeks and cost $11. Lifetime passes available now, only $1,000.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on September 06, 2018, 06:33:06 PM
The story of suburbs, and cars versus trains.

Why Is American Mass Transit So Bad? It's a Long Story.
Quote
... The big investments of the revival era were too little, too late. They also began the ominous pattern of relying on federal funding for capital construction and scarce local dollars for operations and maintenance. Today, many systems have limited frequency and severe maintenance issues due to funding shortfalls over the decades. From New York to San Francisco to Chicago to D.C., virtually every major American rapid transit system has had a service meltdown as a result of chronic deferred maintenance. ...
https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2018/08/how-america-killed-transit/568825/

Cross-posting from the Cars thread.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: GoSouthYoungins on September 07, 2018, 05:09:33 PM
Joe Rogan asks about Boring Company. Elon Musk responses, "I mean, I'm not saying it's going to be successful."

BLAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. DUH!
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Rod on September 08, 2018, 05:13:01 AM
You forgot to mention that he was smoking a joint during the interview!  He seems intent on destroying his own company.

It was bad enough when he scared share holders with a twit about taking the company private.  It got worse when he stoked the fight with the cave diver in Thailand for no apparent reason. 

But, to smoke a joint on camera while discussing the company's future was about the worst possible thing he could do. 

Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Rod on September 08, 2018, 07:29:12 AM
Musk did a Clinton. He didn't draw back and he only had one puff. Also it wasn't illegal, but of course it does show where his head is at when sober

What this does is force the institutional investors to run from him.  They hold the majority of stock in every company. They can't justify an investment in a company where the CEO is smoking pot and making business decisions. 

He can't get away from this.  That is why two executives resigned today. He will most likey be removed by the board. But even then, I doubt his company will survive.  Mercedes just announced they are moving into his market. 

Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: oren on September 08, 2018, 08:38:47 AM
I should note this thread's topic is the Boring Company, not Elon Musk's character or the future of Tesla (the company, not the famed inventor).
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Rod on September 08, 2018, 08:42:14 AM
Understood, but I think anything he has control over is about to take a hard hit. 
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: oren on September 08, 2018, 08:53:23 AM
I strongly doubt Boring will be affected in the least by Musk smoking pot or going crazy with some diver or all the other recent headlines. This private company exists solely because of Musk and his creative insanity. I personally don't think it has a business model, but that's a different issue.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Rob Dekker on September 08, 2018, 10:46:13 AM
Understood, but I think anything he has control over is about to take a hard hit.

Sounds like you want to buy some put options on Tesla.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: oren on September 08, 2018, 08:10:09 PM
Preferably it should be changed to "The Boring Company (Elon Musk)", if Neven is reading this.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on September 09, 2018, 12:14:10 AM
Elon Musk (@elonmusk) 9/8/18, 4:36 PM
Test-driving our new boring machine with a [video-game-type controller]
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1038526444253503488

The Boring Company (@boringcompany) 9/8/18, 4:24 PM
Best video game ever pic.twitter.com/DlGFsji76l
https://twitter.com/boringcompany/status/1038523411922731010
Image below; Video at the link!
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on September 09, 2018, 01:07:09 PM
More info:

Quote
Parts of that second machine is sitting next to the Hawthorne tunnel entrance and it looks like it was what the company is working on in this new video shared by Musk:

They are controlling the machine with an Xbox video game controller.

It appears to be the part that places the tunnel sections on the sides as the head of the machine grinds forward.

Currently, boring machines, including the one used in the Hawthorne tunnel by the Boring Company, require a worker moving around with the tool in order to guide it in the right position, which is both inefficient and dangerous.

It looks like the startup is attempting to find new ways to control and place those sections. ...
https://electrek.co/2018/09/08/elon-musk-boring-company-tunnel-digging-machine-xbox-controller/
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: GoSouthYoungins on September 09, 2018, 04:16:02 PM
I strongly doubt Boring will be affected in the least by Musk smoking pot or going crazy with some diver or all the other recent headlines. This private company exists solely because of Musk and his creative insanity. I personally don't think it has a business model, but that's a different issue.

Of course there is no business model. It is just another Musk Cult of Personality megalomaniac business venture.

There is no company without Musk's credibility. How can you say this thread is about the company and not Musk??? Without the belief that Musk is a super genius and that everything he touches is bound for success, every one of his ventures will be seen for what it is: an ill-thought-out endeavor totally void of a serious business model and maintained through hype and preying on naive people's hopes (and probably with a decent bit of fraud sprinkled on top).
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Archimid on September 10, 2018, 03:19:05 AM
You mean that underground, emissions free, mass transportation is not part of the solution to climate change and a host of local societal problems.

Please.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: GoSouthYoungins on September 10, 2018, 04:59:37 AM
You mean that underground, emissions free, mass transportation is not part of the solution to climate change and a host of local societal problems.

Please.

I think we have discovered what Musk actually does with his 120 work weeks...post propaganda on online forums. Too bad he really sucks and it, and can't even put together a believable argument. If I was going to shill for a faux-green company, I'm sure I could put together more credible arguments than this nonsense.
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: Sigmetnow on September 13, 2018, 01:42:18 PM
Boring Company approved to build a tunnel entrance inside a residential garage
Quote
The Boring Company recently purchased a parcel of land close to SpaceX Headquarters, on 120th St. near Prairie Avenue. Now, the small residence in an industrial neighborhood could house a private, prototype garage, according to The Beach Reporter.

Elon Musk's young tunneling company was granted approval from the Hawthorne City Council today to build a shaft on the property. The shaft would go down to a tunnel that The Boring Company had built as a sort of tunneling laboratory. The shaft would one day house an elevator that could lower a car down into the tunnel without leaving the garage.

Although The Boring Company still needs to provide more detailed plans to the city of Hawthorne before it can start building, the initial plans suggest that the company is looking to test different ways that its tunnels could be accessed (and perhaps paid for). ...
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2018/09/boring-company-approved-to-build-a-tunnel-entrance-inside-a-residential-garage/


Elon Musk (@elonmusk) 9/13/18
Quote
.@boringcompany will transport your car all the way into your garage twitter.com/arstechnica/st…

  First Boring Brick store opening in ~2 months. Only 10 cents a brick! Rated for California seismic loads.

  Bricks will be free if used for affordable housing projects

  About to finish first TBC HQ building made with Boring Bricks in the shape of a medieval watchtower
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1040138879263637504
Title: Re: Boring, boring ol' Elon Musk...
Post by: GoSouthYoungins on September 13, 2018, 08:02:19 PM
Boring Company approved to build a tunnel entrance inside a residential garage

What a joke! Very batman/green. LLOL

what's Musk's cost estimate, $14 per residence? will the walls of the tunnel be constructed with his 10 cent bricks? will the tunnel bring people to a launch site for vacations on Mars? will the tunnels have a dual-use as water purification tank for Flint? will the tunnels be capable of incarcerating pedophiles Musk has identified? did he think this all up with help from neuralink and a 200 hour work week? WHAT A JOKE
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: Sigmetnow on October 20, 2018, 12:15:50 AM
Chicago.  Not Chicago.  Hawthorne, California! 

The Boring Company (@boringcompany) 10/19/18, 4:09 PM
O’Leary Station taking shape
https://twitter.com/boringcompany/status/1053377676440854528
Image below.

https://www.boringcompany.com/chicago/
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: Sigmetnow on October 22, 2018, 01:57:37 PM
This is the 3/4- or 1-mile test tunnel in Hawthorne, not the 3.6-mile tunnel to Dodger stadium.
They plan an “opening event” for December 10 and that the tunnel will be opened for free rides to the public the next day.  Tunnel is permitted for demonstration and testing, not transportation, at this point.

Elon Musk's Boring Company announces completion and launch of first tunnel by December
https://electrek.co/2018/10/22/elon-musk-boring-company-launch-tunnel-december/

Quote
<< Please tell me you’re going to make it look cool inside the tunnels! ❤️
https://twitter.com/pkmnmasterholly/status/1054164782004105217
[moving lighted tunnel gif at the link]

Elon Musk:  Pretty close, actually
Opening event that night & free rides for the public next day
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1054167515792793600

Quote
"I'm actually quite a big fan of tunnels. Tunnels are so under-appreciated. Something that I do think would help a lot in cities is tunnels. I think this is going to sound somewhat trivial or silly, but I’ve been saying this for many years now, but I think that the solution to urban congestion is a network of tunnels under cities. We got this fundamental flaw with cities that you got office buildings and apartment buildings and duplexes, and they are operating on three dimensions. But then you go to the streets and suddenly you're two-dimensional. The fundamental problem is that we build cities in 3D. You’ve got these tall buildings with lots of people on each floor, but then you've got roads which are 2D, you have a road network that is one level. That obviously just doesn't work.

Then people generally want to go in and out of those buildings at the exact same time. So then you get the traffic jams, you’re guaranteed to have gridlock. But you can go 3D, if you have tunnels, and you can have many tunnels crisscrossing each other with maybe a few meters vertical distance between them, and completely get rid of traffic problems. It's my understanding that Hong Kong is actually in the process of building some tunnels; I was very pleased to hear that, that really is the solution for solving traffic in major cities."

Source: "Elon Musk: The Unauthorized Autobiography"
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: Sigmetnow on October 24, 2018, 02:13:06 AM
This Atlantic writer wants to rip up NYC’s old subway tracks and instead run a variety of autonomous/electric vehicles.

The New York City Subway Is Beyond Repair
Forget trains. It’s time for something radically different.
https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/06/the-new-york-city-subway-is-beyond-repair/562472/
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: sidd on October 24, 2018, 06:07:41 AM
Atlantic Council ? The Capitalism Nazis ? They hate anything for the public, including transport.

I use the subway in New Yawk several times a year, weeks at a time. The thing is falling apart, and Sandy really did a number, the saltwater damage will take another five years to fix, if then. But the thing mostly runs. Replacing trains with a million intelligent skateboards sounds like an Uber wet dream. The reply by the transport engineer (linked in the article) outlines some of the problems. Apart from the fact that self driving intelligent skateboards don't exist.

In my opinion, the guy is a moron, and I feel stupider for having read that. At least now, i know not to read anything else by him.

sidd
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: sedziobs on October 24, 2018, 02:44:14 PM
Atlantic Council ? The Capitalism Nazis ?
The Atlantic magazine is not the Atlantic Council.
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: Sigmetnow on October 24, 2018, 06:14:13 PM
Atlantic Council ? The Capitalism Nazis ? They hate anything for the public, including transport.

I use the subway in New Yawk several times a year, weeks at a time. The thing is falling apart, and Sandy really did a number, the saltwater damage will take another five years to fix, if then. But the thing mostly runs. Replacing trains with a million intelligent skateboards sounds like an Uber wet dream. The reply by the transport engineer (linked in the article) outlines some of the problems. Apart from the fact that self driving intelligent skateboards don't exist.

In my opinion, the guy is a moron, and I feel stupider for having read that. At least now, i know not to read anything else by him.

sidd

Sorry to have challenged your imagination so grievously. ;)
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: Sigmetnow on October 26, 2018, 12:15:27 PM
“O’Leary Station” is in Hawthorne, California!

The Boring Company's garage-elevator site shows flurry of activity ahead of Dec 10 public showing
https://www.teslarati.com/elon-musk-boring-company-activity-garage-elevator-site-o-leary-station/
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: Sigmetnow on November 04, 2018, 01:34:01 PM
“One-dimensional” ;D

Elon Musk (@elonmusk) 11/3/18, 3:31 AM
Walked full length of Boring Co tunnel under LA tonight. Disturbingly long. On track for opening party Dec 10. Will be very one-dimensional.
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1058622599188504576

34-sec time lapse moving through tunnel end to end:
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1058767039102312448

<< how long will a ride take?
Elon Musk (@elonmusk) 11/3/18, 1:28 PM
Just a few mins, which is mostly accelerating & decelerating
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1058772996112826369

From the recent Recode interview:

New York’s 2.5-mile subway extension cost $2 billion.  So, about a billion dollars a mile.  Musk’s smaller tunnel cost about $10 million a mile, not including the equipment.

In talking to the engineering heads of the various tunneling companies, he found that they had no idea if their machines were power-limited or thermal-limited.  “Things like increasing power is relatively easy, and then you hit the threshold where youʼve added so much power that youʼre melting the drill head.”  So he took “rocket technology and automotive technology and applying it to drilling.”  And made it electric, which eliminates deadly fumes in the tunnel, and used batteries, which eliminates the need for a huge, very long power cable.  “We need to massively crank up the power to the drill head, and then ... we need to cool it.”  And automate the placement of the tunnel reinforcements, so digging doesn’t have to stop while that is done. 

Because we can dig deeper than we can build high, a hundred levels of tunnels is possible….

The Boring Company used a Tesla chassis to make a train that carries the dirt out of the tunnel — again, with no diesel fumes.
https://electrek.co/2018/06/14/tesla-model-x-rails-elon-musk-boring-company-tunnel/

The full Recode interview podcast and transcript is here: https://www.recode.net/2018/11/2/18053424/elon-musk-tesla-spacex-boring-company-self-driving-cars-saudi-twitter-kara-swisher-decode-podcast
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: Sigmetnow on November 11, 2018, 10:17:38 PM
Elon Musk on double-decker freeways, permitting, and building sewers
Water and electrical transport are also on the table.
Quote
Tesla, SpaceX, and Boring Company CEO Elon Musk is good at finding alternative markets for his products. He did this with the lithium-ion batteries he was building and sourcing for his Model S, X, and eventually Model 3 cars: by developing a line of stationary storage battery products, he tapped into another well of potential customers at little additional expense.

Similarly, Musk told mayors on Thursday that he wants The Boring Company to dig sewers, water transport, and electrical tunnels under cities, in addition to the transportation-focused tunnels he hopes to dig to house electric skate systems.

Musk mentioned this alternate use for his boring machines at the National League of Cities' City Summit, during a "fireside chat" with Los Angeles mayor Eric Garcetti. According to Forbes, Musk told the audience, "The Boring Company is also going to do tunneling for, like, water transport, sewage, electrical. We're not going to turn our noses up at sewage tunnels. We're happy to do that too."

The Boring Company is built on the premise that tunneling technology has not been adequately developed. Musk claims that his boring machines will tunnel faster than the industry's best machines.
...
In December 2016, the CEO tweeted that he hated traffic so much he was going to build tunnels. At Thursday's fireside chat, Garcetti said he received a text from Musk the day after Musk made that tweet. The text asked the LA mayor, "Do I need permits for this?" Garcetti, laughing, told the audience that he responded "yes, there are probably going to be some permits that you need."
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2018/11/elon-musk-on-double-decker-freeways-permitting-and-building-sewers/
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: Sigmetnow on November 17, 2018, 01:48:55 PM
The Hawthorne, California “test tunnel”

Elon Musk releases video of Boring Company breaking through other end of first tunnel
https://electrek.co/2018/11/17/elon-musk-boring-compan-first-tunnel/
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: Sigmetnow on November 29, 2018, 04:34:43 PM
NBC News tweeted: Elon Musk's Boring Company announced that it was withdrawing plans for a high-tech transportation tunnel below the 405 freeway along Los Angeles' Westside.

Elon Musk (@elonmusk) 11/28/18, 9:33 PM
@NBCNews This is completely backwards. Based on what we’ve learned from the Hawthorne test tunnel, we’re moving forward with a much larger tunnel network under LA. Won’t need a second test tunnel under Sepulveda.
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1067969782803128320


Elon Musk’s Boring Company extracts TBM segments as tunnel debut nears
Quote
On November 27, a large crew of Boring Company employees and contractors converged upon the company’s Praire Avenue work site, home of a number of recent milestones for the tunneling startup’s 2-mile long test tunnel situated beneath Hawthorne, California. Just a handful of blocks away from SpaceX’s main rocket factory, The Boring Co. completed the removal of its first tunnel boring machine (TBM), allowing the company to begin cleaning up the site, preparing it for the installation of a brand new elevator shaft capable of transporting vehicles or custom sleds into or out of the tunnel.

The extraction of Godot, the tunneling startup’s first TBM, was shared by the company on its official Twitter account. Godot is a conventional TBM, and during the company’s information session earlier this year, Elon Musk noted that the machine would be succeeded by Line-Storm, which is “essentially a hybrid between a conventional boring machine and Proof-Rock, a fully Boring Company-designed machine.” Being electric-powered, Proof-rock is expected have 3x more power and operate 10-15x times faster than Godot. ...
https://www.teslarati.com/elon-musk-boring-company-boring-machine-segment-removal-complete-tunnel-debut/

Boring TBM models:  Godot ->  Line-Storm  ->  Proof-Rock
And reusability will be key!
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: Sigmetnow on December 08, 2018, 10:15:46 PM
Elon Musk’s Boring Company extracts TBM segments as tunnel debut nears
https://www.teslarati.com/elon-musk-boring-company-boring-machine-segment-removal-complete-tunnel-debut/

Elon Musk’s Boring Company to unveil ‘fully road legal autonomous transport cars’
https://electrek.co/2018/12/06/elon-musk-boring-company-fully-road-legal-autonomous-transport-cars/

The Boring Company starts building Elon Musk’s ‘Monty Python’-style watchtower
Quote
Last month, Elon Musk announced that The Boring Company is building a watchtower in Los Angeles, and that the tunneling startup would need someone who can “yell insults at people in a French accent” to work on the site. As strange and unusual as the job listing was, a position for “Watchtower Guard” did appear on the Boring Company’s official website.

The watchtower that the knight would be placed at is expected to be built with Boring Bricks, which are durable, low-cost blocks made from tunneling rock and dirt from TBC’s digging operations. As Elon Musk and The Boring Company shared images and clips of the guards’ hiring process, the tunneling startup appears to have started the construction of its watchtower as well. Recent photos taken by Teslarati photographer Pauline Acalin reveal that as of Tuesday, the framework of a tall structure near the Boring Company’s tunnels is already in the process of being built.
https://www.teslarati.com/elon-musk-the-boring-company-monty-python-watchtower-pictures/
Article explains the pop culture references and a relevant ‘Month Python’ video clip. ;)
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: Sigmetnow on December 16, 2018, 02:14:22 PM
When you need to build a tunnel watchtower at Ludicrous speed:

The Boring Company cleverly lays bricks on Elon Musk's 'Monty Python' watchtower
https://www.teslarati.com/the-boring-company-lays-bricks-elon-musk-monty-python-watchtower-pictures/

    —-
Pauline Acalin (@w00ki33) 12/15/18, 2:47 PM
Just drove by... I literally don't even know how to caption this epic scene.
https://twitter.com/w00ki33/status/1074028244813279232
[Images below.]

Elon Musk (@elonmusk) 12/16/18, 2:22 AM
Medieval Futurism
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1074203199496540160
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: Sigmetnow on December 19, 2018, 03:16:48 PM
Those bricks on the watchtower above?  Were made with dirt from the tunnel next to it. :)
They’re $0.10 a brick, or free if your project will help others.

Here’s a less technical article and short videos on the Hawthorne test tunnel revealed last night:
Elon Musk and Gayle King test drive the tunnel he hopes will solve L.A. traffic
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/elon-musk-inside-boring-company-tunnel-with-gayle-king-spacex/

For more technical info, see the detailed video discussion and FAQ here:
https://www.boringcompany.com

Elon Musk (@elonmusk) 12/18/18, 10:32 PM
The demo ride takes you in *same* car on road, down elevator, zips through tunnel using guide wheels, up elevator at destination & then drives on normal roads back to start
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1075232313082929154

Tesla in @boringcompany tunnel with retractable wheel gear that turns a car into a rail-guided train & back again pic.twitter.com/3a6i0NoSmi
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1075227467239940096
- This can be applied to any autonomous, electric vehicle, not just Tesla
- Capable of traveling safely at over 150mph. At that speed, it will feel like teleporting within a city.
- All Boring Loops will include continuously circulating cars dedicated to pedestrians & cyclists
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: Sigmetnow on December 19, 2018, 06:12:38 PM
At this link is a one-minute TBC video of the prototype in action. (When the red light on the roof at the entry turns green: go! ;D ):
The Boring Company (@boringcompany)
12/19/18, 4:16 AM
The Boring Company Loop system
https://twitter.com/boringcompany/status/1075318894871470081


Even at the ~45mph demonstration speeds, “It took at least twice as long to make the drive back through traffic.”
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/dec/18/elon-musk-boring-company-tunnel-party-tonight-los-angeles


Quote
The tunnel cost an estimated $10 million, roughly a quarter of Musk’s total investment in The Boring Company, which is funded nearly entirely by Musk personally. Asked whether Tuesday’s event was an effort to drum up investment in the private company, Musk said there is no shortage of those wishing to invest.

“We have people hounding us to invest non-stop,” Musk said.
https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/12/19/elon-musk-unveils-boring-companys-long-ballyhooed-tunnel-aimed-at-easing-soul-crushing-traffic/amp/
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: Sigmetnow on January 20, 2019, 03:34:02 PM
Sydney, Australia!

Elon Musk Tells Lawmaker The Boring Company Can Dig via Mountain for Cheap
Quote
Elon Musk wants to solve city traffic woes one tunnel at a time. The Boring Company founder, responding to an Australian state lawmaker via Twitter on Wednesday, stated the firm could build a two-way high-speed transit route through the Blue Mountains to connect Sydney and the west for a surprisingly low price.

Musk has been gradually providing more details about his tunnel-digging venture, founded two years ago with the aim of resolving Los Angeles traffic, which hosted a press event in December 2018 to unveil its 1.14-mile initial test tunnel in Hawthorne, California. Jeremy Buckingham, a member of the New South Wales parliament’s upper house, asked Musk how much it would cost to build a 31-mile tunnel through the mountains to stop Sydney “choking with traffic.” Musk responded that it would cost around $15 million per kilometer for a bi-directional high-speed tunnel, equating to $750 million for the whole route. Musk also stated that stations to enter and exit the tunnel would cost around $50 million each. ...
https://www.inverse.com/article/52517-the-boring-company-elon-musk-details-price-to-dig-via-australian-mountain
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: GoSouthYoungins on January 28, 2019, 10:36:50 PM
https://futurism.com/the-byte/boring-company-tunnel-opening

Did anyone go on the Dec 10th, open to the public, Boring Company LA tour?

Please attach photos or videos or links.


Also, how is the Chicago tunnel going? Any updates?
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: Sigmetnow on January 29, 2019, 03:58:20 PM
https://futurism.com/the-byte/boring-company-tunnel-opening

Did anyone go on the Dec 10th, open to the public, Boring Company LA tour?

Please attach photos or videos or links.


Also, how is the Chicago tunnel going? Any updates?

https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,2000.msg184659.html#msg184659   ;)
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: GoSouthYoungins on January 29, 2019, 07:46:01 PM
So the public tour never happened and nothing is going on in Chicago, or did I miss something?
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: Sigmetnow on January 30, 2019, 05:52:56 PM
So the public tour never happened and nothing is going on in Chicago, or did I miss something?

The December event was “public,” but limited to those who obtained tickets, due to site size, and time limitations.  It took hours for all the attendees to get their rides as it was; an unlimited public event would simply not be possible. 

However, public tours do happen:
Quote
The Boring Company (@boringcompany)
8/14/18, 3:25 AM
We are hosting student tours of the Hawthorne tunnel site for schools in LA County! Each tour can accommodate up to 30 students. Interested faculty (or students with a faculty sponsor!) can reach out to studenttours@boringcompany.com
https://twitter.com/boringcompany/status/1029267748377907200


The Chicago project is, ”In contract review, environmental review and permitting.”  Even Musk can’t speed that up significantly!
Quote
The Chicago Express Loop
The Boring Company has been selected by the Chicago Infrastructure Trust (CIT), on behalf of the City of Chicago, to enter into exclusive negotiations to design, build, finance, operate and maintain an O’Hare Express service. The Chicago Express Loop will provide fast and convenient transportation between O’Hare Airport (Terminals 1-3) and Block 37 in downtown Chicago. Status: In contract review, environmental review and permitting
More at: https://www.boringcompany.com/chicago/
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: Sigmetnow on February 09, 2019, 06:10:57 PM
San Jose, California

Elon Musk’s Boring Company in talks for airport tunnel project in Silicon Valley
Quote
The Boring Company, Elon Musk’s tunneling startup, might have another tunnel project on its hands. In a statement earlier this week, San Jose Mayor Sam Liccardo stated that he has been in talks with The Boring Co. over the last 18 months to discuss the possibility of building a tunnel linking Diridon Station and the Mineta San Jose International Airport — a distance of about 4 miles.

Addressing reporters at City Hall, the San Jose, CA mayor noted that the tunnel project could give Diridon Station a chance to “grow with the city,” particularly as Google is expected to construct a campus near Diridon in the future, which would likely bring thousands of people to the area. Apart from this, Diridon Station, the city’s main transit hub, is expected to undergo an overhaul in the future, with the Bay Area Rapid Transit (BART) line set to extend downtown to the station itself.

Around five years ago, cost estimates for the construction of a conventional rail link connecting the Mineta San Jose International Airport to Diridon were listed at a hefty $800 million. Liccardo noted that tunnels, particularly those constructed by The Boring Company, could cost just a fraction of the $800 million estimate. That said, the mayor clarified that the project, provided that it does happen, would not be locked with the Boring Co. 

“It’s not that cost effective. We’ve been looking at alternatives. This is going to be open to everybody. What we’ve been exploring is the technology,” the Liccardo said....
https://www.teslarati.com/elon-musk-boring-company-san-jose-airport-tunnel/
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: Sigmetnow on March 06, 2019, 08:46:29 PM
Las Vegas, Nevada.
Looks like the initial People Mover project would be a little over a mile in length; the “potential” route might be an additional 5 or 6 miles, plus the all the short branches to stations.  Unknown how many tunnels the initial “loop” (the solid line on the map) will consist of; obviously at least two. A “fiscal impact” of $35 to $55 million is pocket change for Vegas.  Note: Tesla’s Gigafactory 1 is in Nevada, so they’ve bet on Elon’s new-tech projects before.

LVCVA and Elon Musk's The Boring Company Collaborating for Future of Transportation in Las Vegas
Quote
LAS VEGAS -- The Las Vegas Convention and Visitors Authority (LVCVA) today, March 6, 2019, announced a recommendation to select The Boring Company (TBC) to design, construct and operate a people mover for the Las Vegas Convention Center via a loop of underground express-route tunnels that could carry passengers in autonomous electric vehicles at high speeds. Upon approval by the LVCVA Board of Directors on March 12, the project would be another first for Las Vegas and have the potential to connect Downtown, the Las Vegas Convention Center, the Las Vegas Boulevard Resort Corridor, McCarran International Airport and beyond. 

Pending the LVCVA Board’s approval during their March 12 meeting, TBC and the LVCVA would determine specific design, construction and operational plans and negotiate a contract for final approval by the LVCVA Board in a subsequent meeting anticipated by June 2019. The estimated fiscal impact of the potential project is $35 to $55 million.
https://press.lvcva.com/News-Releases/lvcva-and-elon-musk-s-the-boring-company-collaborating-for-future-of-transportation-in-las-vegas/s/ef4db4ea-f604-4028-be6d-feb1017376df
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: Sigmetnow on March 06, 2019, 09:38:06 PM
More:

Las Vegas welcomes Elon Musk’s Boring Company, transport tunnel in talks
Quote
Las Vegas Convention and Visitors Authority CEO Steven Hill stated that the Boring Company’s technology fits well with the options being explored for mass transit in the campus. Hill notes that since there is not a lot that can be done on the surface anymore, a good option is to start looking at underground solutions. This is where Elon Musk’s tunneling startup comes in.

“We hope to explore the opportunity to move this kind of technology into the entire city. We’ve long recognized that as Las Vegas continues to grow, we have some chip points in moving people. There’s not room on the surface really to add lanes on the road every place we need them, particularly up and down the Strip and to the airport. So being underground is something that is very attractive,” Hill said.

Sources also hinted that the project could come with a price tag of $35 million to $55 million, a fraction of the cost quoted by the Boring Company’s above-ground competitors. If the project gets the necessary approval, it will be The Boring Company’s first official commercial contract. ...
https://www.teslarati.com/elon-musk-boring-company-las-vegas-tunnel/
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: Sigmetnow on March 07, 2019, 01:07:13 AM
More detailed map.  Possible ‘Grand Lobby Connector’!

The Boring Company’s president, Steve Davis, says that the project could be done in a year.

Las Vegas bets on Elon Musk’s Boring Company for tunnel project
https://www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2019/3/6/18252302/boring-company-las-vegas-dig-plans-2021
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: Sigmetnow on March 12, 2019, 09:12:23 PM
Las Vegas tunnel is Approved!
Quote
Elon Musk (@elonmusk) 3/12/19, 3:48 PM
Looking forward to building a Boring Company tunnel in Vegas. Assuming to be operational by end of year!
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1105556139184410626

LVCVA moving ahead with underground transport system
Quote
The Las Vegas Convention and Visitors Authority is going underground.
The organization’s board of directors on Tuesday approved a proposal with Elon Musk’s The Boring Co. to develop a subterranean people-moving transit system costing between $35 million and $55 million for the Las Vegas Convention Center in a 10-3 vote.

Proposed route options would run from the Convention Center’s Green Lot east of the South Hall to a new parking area west of the West Hall currently under construction, a distance of more than 1¼ miles.
LVCVA President and CEO Steve Hill and Steve Davis, president of The Boring Co., described what’s being called the Las Vegas Convention Center Loop as an autonomous point-to-point on-demand system with vehicles capable of transporting up to 16 people at a time.
The system would use autonomous electric vehicles, or AEVs, on three types of Tesla Model X chassis with rubber tires operated in automatic pilot mode.

Using paired one-way tunnels with a series of on- and off-ramps, the AEVs could be hailed by app for direct service to another station. Conventioneers would access the underground system by elevators, escalators or stairs. Hill said the LVCVA envisions use of the Convention Center Loop to be free to conventioneers.
While the system is capable of speeds of up to 150 mph, the short distance between stations at the Convention Center would keep a vehicle’s speed at a maximum of around 50 mph.

According to LVCVA documents, pre-cast concrete tunnels would be built about 30 feet below grade level with a 12-foot inner diameter and a 13½-foot outer diameter. ...
https://www.reviewjournal.com/business/tourism/lvcva-moving-ahead-with-underground-transport-system-1616329/
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: GoSouthYoungins on March 27, 2019, 01:43:42 AM
Elon Musk’s Hilariously Bad Subway System Leaves Virginia Transit Officials Baffled

https://www.gq.com/story/elon-musk-yelp-reviews

giggles.
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: oren on March 27, 2019, 10:12:00 AM
Cheaper, faster tunneling is a great idea and could solve a lot of problems (if it works). All the rest of the Boring company ideas so far struck me as quite bad. I am sure there are better ways to use small tunnels. Maybe the Las Vegas project will be more sensible.
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: GoSouthYoungins on April 06, 2019, 02:54:58 AM
Cheaper, faster tunneling is a great idea and could solve a lot of problems (if it works). All the rest of the Boring company ideas so far struck me as quite bad. I am sure there are better ways to use small tunnels. Maybe the Las Vegas project will be more sensible.

Cheaper and faster tunneling?!? Musk bought a used boring machine. What innovation were you tricked into thinking was invented?
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: oren on April 06, 2019, 10:00:44 AM
Have you ever tried to google the answer or do you just rely on negative sources?

Quote
...the innovations The Boring Company says it’s bringing are to the business of tunneling itself: having the tunnel-boring machines run electric instead of on diesel fuel; tripling the tunnel-boring machine’s power; automating the machine so it doesn’t rely on human operators; and allowing it to operate continuously.
Diesel locomotives require ventilation underground while electric locomotives don't.
Plus, the idea that a transport tunnel can be 14 feet in diameter instead of the standard 28 feet.

The big question they have not solved yet IMHO is how to use such tunnels effectively for mass transport.
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: Sigmetnow on April 18, 2019, 07:46:42 PM
DOT Completes Review of Draft Environmental Assessment for the Proposed “Loop” Tunnel Project Between Baltimore and Washington, D.C.
Quote
Today, the U.S. Department of Transportation (DOT) announced the availability of a draft version of the Environmental Assessment for the Washington DC to Baltimore Loop Project, the first step in a joint federal-state review of a non-traditional transportation technology. The Boring Company, of Hawthorne, CA, is considering the future development of a privately-funded, underground, high-speed tunnel facility to help alleviate area congestion. The proposed project would consist of twin, underground tunnels approximately 35 miles in length between Washington, D.C. and Baltimore, MD, which in part would follow the right-of-way under the Baltimore Washington Parkway. The proposed station terminals would be located on New York Avenue (northwest of Union Station) in D.C. and in the Camden Yards area in downtown Baltimore. ...
https://www.transportation.gov/briefing-room/dot-completes-review-draft-environmental-assessment-proposed-%E2%80%9Cloop%E2%80%9D-tunnel-project

https://www.dcbaltimoreloop.com/#dea

Below is a link to the report.  500 pages! :o Details about how and where the Loop would be constructed, and how it might impact the environment and the surrounding area.
https://www.dcbaltimoreloop.com/DraftLoopEA.pdf
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: Sigmetnow on May 19, 2019, 01:26:02 AM
The Boring Company would build two 0.8-mile tunnels and three underground stations at the Las Vegas Convention Center, the world’s largest single-level convention center.  Construction would begin as soon as September, with the entire system being completed by November 2020.

Las Vegas is about to take a gamble on Musk’s Boring Company
Sat 18 May 2019
Quote
Las Vegas is set to give Elon Musk’s Boring Company its first payout: a $44m contract to build a high-speed underground transit system serving an expanded convention center. But the city is hedging its bets. The contract withholds over two-thirds of payments until construction is complete, and specifies hefty penalties should the system fail to accommodate enough passengers.
...
But Steve Hill, CEO of the LVCVA , said at the same meeting that the city simply could not afford any of the alternatives.
The Boring Company’s $44,250,00 fixed price contract came in at about a fifth of a reported $215m bid submitted for a rival, elevated rail system. Musk said that he thinks the Loop’s small tunnels can be built for a tenth of the cost of traditional rail or road tunnels, and in less than a tenth of the time.

The Boring Company will need to rely on those economies as it embarks on the Las Vegas project. Under the contract, it would get only a little over a million dollars up front, receiving more money as it hits various milestones, including $2.5m for excavating the first station and $3.2m for completing the first 100 feet of tunnel. It will have to build all the tunnels, stations and system infrastructure on payments of less than $14m.

Payments would increase when the first autonomous electric vehicles start testing, around six weeks before the system opens in late 2020. The Boring Company’s final payments will depend on it demonstrating that it can transport 4,400 passengers an hour, day after day.
...
One solution The Boring Company proposed would be to use modified Model X vehicles that could accommodate up to 16 people, sitting, standing or in wheelchairs. The Boring Company has yet to show it has built those models.
...
https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/may/17/las-vegas-is-about-to-take-a-gamble-on-musks-boring-company
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: GoSouthYoungins on May 20, 2019, 03:32:40 PM

Las Vegas is about to take a gamble on Musk’s Boring Company



Um, no. They are providing a million dollars up front. Which is basically nothing.

This is just another Musk sham company. Musk embezzled funds from SpaceX to buy a small used tunneling machine. No innovation, no expertise, no nothing.
 
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: Sigmetnow on May 20, 2019, 09:31:47 PM

Las Vegas is about to take a gamble on Musk’s Boring Company



Um, no. They are providing a million dollars up front. Which is basically nothing.

This is just another Musk sham company. Musk embezzled funds from SpaceX to buy a small used tunneling machine. No innovation, no expertise, no nothing.

Here’s some information to educate yourself a bit and minimize further ignorant comments.

Boring Company's next-gen tunneling machine 'Line-Storm' is nearing activation
https://www.teslarati.com/boring-company-line-storm-tunneling-machine-active/


Quote
Elon Musk (@elonmusk) 12/19/18, 5:29 PM
Perhaps lost in the transport debate is that @boringcompany built a 6000 ft tunnel in LA for ~$10M with V1 (Godot). Next tunnel will be made with V2 (Line-Storm). V3 (Prufrock), aspirationally 10X better, should be operational next year. For reference: citylab.com/transportation…
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1075518412200144896
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: SteveMDFP on May 20, 2019, 09:57:51 PM
The Boring Co also has a project to connect Washington DC to Baltimore, near me.  I was quite interested in the idea, but I'm turning into an opponent.  Further details:

Not quite Hyper: The Boring Company’s DC-Baltimore “Loop” would move just 2,000 people per day
https://ggwash.org/view/71811/not-quite-hyper-the-boring-cos-dc-baltimore-loop-would-move-just-2000-people-per-day (https://ggwash.org/view/71811/not-quite-hyper-the-boring-cos-dc-baltimore-loop-would-move-just-2000-people-per-day)

The main problem is that there are only two stations, one in each city.  The two terminals are almost exactly the same as an *existing* commuter rail line.  The existing line has about 10 stops, and most riders get on or off somewhere other than the terminals.

So end-to-end would be something like 15 minutes instead of something like an hour.  For a cost of $80 instead of $8.  Whose time is worth more than $72 for 45 minutes?  Only the quite affluent.

The DC-B loop can only succeed, it seems, by siphoning off existing commuters, and eroding political support from the affluent for public transit.  This could reduce or eliminate rail service for folks depending on the existing line to get to work.
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: sedziobs on May 20, 2019, 10:17:59 PM
The main problem is that there are only two stations, one in each city.

The draft EA includes only two stations as part of initial construction, but it also mentions potential intermediate stations.
Quote
The Loop Main Artery Tunnels are designed to transport more than 100,000 daily riders per direction per day, with the variation based on the final, and currently unknown, layout and quantity of intermediate Loop Stations. These 100,000 riders encompass trips between the endpoints in Washington D.C. and Baltimore, as well as trips between potential intermediate Loop Stations (e.g., Laurel to Greenbelt).

The Washington, D.C. Loop Station has a small footprint and would be used to accommodate approximately 1,000 passengers per direction per day. Therefore, upon construction of the proposed Project, the system would only support 1,000 riders per day per direction, with additional capacity potentially added later through the construction of additional Loop Stations. The locations, quantity, and size of potential future Loop Stations are unknown. Additional study and analysis of potential future expansion in Loop System infrastructure and ridership would be conducted later as a pre-condition of expansion.
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: SteveMDFP on May 20, 2019, 10:48:10 PM
The main problem is that there are only two stations, one in each city.

The draft EA includes only two stations as part of initial construction, but it also mentions potential intermediate stations.
 ...

Yes, more intermediate stops would likely improve the potential success of the business plan -- at the cost of more cannibalization of ridership on the existing line.  It's still essentially redundant infrastructure, likely to frustrate (rather than satisfy) the needs of the existing commuters.
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: Sigmetnow on May 21, 2019, 04:44:36 AM
The closest competition today is probably the Acela Express train, which is about $50, runs 12 times a day from Baltimore to Washington, and is subject to delays or cancellation due to weather.  The Loop would offer more flexible scheduling, smaller cars, and a quicker trip, regardless of the weather. 

Baltimore to Washington:  “Amtrak Acela Express offers 12 schedules for you to choose from. The tickets cost about $49.44, and the trip typically takes 35 minutes.”

I have not seen a price quoted for a Loop trip.  The ggwash article simply chose the most expensive option it could find:
Quote
Taking the Loop from DC to Baltimore would be cheap, if the company’s analysis is accurate. Boring says tickets—which you would book through a mobile app—would “be comparable to public transportation.” One-way tickets for MARC regional rail between the two cities is $8; Amtrak ticket prices vary but can be as low as $19 for the Regional or upwards of $80 for the Acela.
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: GoSouthYoungins on May 22, 2019, 03:27:30 AM

Las Vegas is about to take a gamble on Musk’s Boring Company



Um, no. They are providing a million dollars up front. Which is basically nothing.

This is just another Musk sham company. Musk embezzled funds from SpaceX to buy a small used tunneling machine. No innovation, no expertise, no nothing.

Here’s some information to educate yourself a bit and minimize further ignorant comments.

Boring Company's next-gen tunneling machine 'Line-Storm' is nearing activation
https://www.teslarati.com/boring-company-line-storm-tunneling-machine-active/


Quote
Elon Musk (@elonmusk) 12/19/18, 5:29 PM
Perhaps lost in the transport debate is that @boringcompany built a 6000 ft tunnel in LA for ~$10M with V1 (Godot). Next tunnel will be made with V2 (Line-Storm). V3 (Prufrock), aspirationally 10X better, should be operational next year. For reference: citylab.com/transportation…
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1075518412200144896

Giggles. So what is this technological breakthrough that will allow for 10X better tunneling? (OMFG, even writing that just feels silly.) 

Crickets. Crickets. Crickets.

Of course you won't answer, instead posting a link that doesn't answer my question either. I guess I can't blame you since there is no answer.

Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: oren on May 22, 2019, 11:30:00 AM
Have you ever tried to google the answer or do you just rely on negative sources?

Quote
...the innovations The Boring Company says it’s bringing are to the business of tunneling itself: having the tunnel-boring machines run electric instead of on diesel fuel; tripling the tunnel-boring machine’s power; automating the machine so it doesn’t rely on human operators; and allowing it to operate continuously.
Diesel locomotives require ventilation underground while electric locomotives don't.
Plus, the idea that a transport tunnel can be 14 feet in diameter instead of the standard 28 feet.

The big question they have not solved yet IMHO is how to use such tunnels effectively for mass transport.
GSY, as you keep asking the same rhetorical question, I will requote the answer.

TBC could certainly turn out to be a big flop, but it doesn't mean they have done nothing at all. Keep your objectivity.
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: Archimid on May 22, 2019, 12:03:35 PM
Quote
Giggles. So what is this technological breakthrough that will allow for 10X better tunneling?

If we knew this we wouldn't need the Boring company. There is likely a maximum theoretical digging speed. It is highly likely that no boring machine is there. Elon Musk is attempting to improve digging speed by digging holes and iterating the design. The more they iterate the higher chance to find breakthroughs and efficiency gains.

No magic involved. Only hard work and determination.
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: GoSouthYoungins on May 23, 2019, 09:31:19 AM
Have you ever tried to google the answer or do you just rely on negative sources?

Quote
...the innovations The Boring Company says it’s bringing are to the business of tunneling itself: having the tunnel-boring machines run electric instead of on diesel fuel; tripling the tunnel-boring machine’s power; automating the machine so it doesn’t rely on human operators; and allowing it to operate continuously.
Diesel locomotives require ventilation underground while electric locomotives don't.
Plus, the idea that a transport tunnel can be 14 feet in diameter instead of the standard 28 feet.

The big question they have not solved yet IMHO is how to use such tunnels effectively for mass transport.
GSY, as you keep asking the same rhetorical question, I will requote the answer.

TBC could certainly turn out to be a big flop, but it doesn't mean they have done nothing at all. Keep your objectivity.

Running someone elses boring machine off of electricity does nothing to improve tunneling time or cost. Boring a smaller diameter tunnel is not an innovation. 

The "big question" of tunnels for mass transport HAS BEEN SOLVED!!! It is called a subway. It doesn't work in a small diameter tunnel. DUH.


I'll explain with a real world example:

I sell many types of hoses (and other things) for work. Today I sold four 1.5 inch hoses to a company. Those are relatively large diameter hoses, which only go to customers who need really high flow rates for an application. If I had told the customer that I innovated a new solution for them called a 3/4 inch hose, and that it was WAY cheaper...they would ask me if I was joking. The flow rate is a tiny fraction in a hose half the diameter. Same thing with tunnels and people. Cutting the diameter in half, and then saying, "Well shucks, now we just need to figure out how to make it handle the flow of a 1.5 inch hose," IS ABSURD AND CHILDISH.
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: GoSouthYoungins on May 23, 2019, 09:35:34 AM
Quote
Giggles. So what is this technological breakthrough that will allow for 10X better tunneling?

If we knew this we wouldn't need the Boring company. There is likely a maximum theoretical digging speed. It is highly likely that no boring machine is there. Elon Musk is attempting to improve digging speed by digging holes and iterating the design. The more they iterate the higher chance to find breakthroughs and efficiency gains.

No magic involved. Only hard work and determination.

So you admit it: no innovation or technological breakthrough, just the hope that by "iterating the design" they will somehow end up with a 10X better product. WOW. JUST WOW.
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: Sigmetnow on May 23, 2019, 02:27:36 PM
Writing insults is plainly much easier than revising your reflexively negative views. 

There is no question that all-electric Tesla torque beats comparable ICE engines.

————-
The Boring Company is also working in developing a next-generation tunnel boring machine that is all-electric, making it faster, quieter, and cleaner than conventional TBMs. These innovations are expected to be utilized in the company’s upcoming projects.

——
Beyond Line-Storm, the tunneling startup is also working on Prufrock, a TBM designed from the ground up by The Boring Company. Being fully electric, Prufrock is expected to be capable of digging 10-15x faster than current TBMs, with zero emissions and with very little noise.

——
The extraction of Godot, the tunneling startup’s first TBM, was shared by the company on its official Twitter account. Godot is a conventional TBM, and during the company’s information session earlier this year, Elon Musk noted that the machine would be succeeded by Line-Storm, which is “essentially a hybrid between a conventional boring machine and Proof-Rock, a fully Boring Company-designed machine.” Being electric-powered, Proof-rock is expected have 3x more power and operate 10-15x times faster than Godot, with zero emissions and with very little noise.
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: crandles on May 23, 2019, 03:22:43 PM
I did wonder if the 10*faster was:

half the diameter so 4* less material to remove,
working near 100% of time instead of 50% stopped to fit tunnel panels
which leaves only 25% faster rate of material removal to get to 10* the speed.

Even so, 25% faster down a smaller tunnel likely requires some innovation.


Is it likely there has effectively been a tunnel building cartel that overcharges and doesn't bother trying to innovate to do it more cheaply? Small number of companies with quite high barriers to entry so I don't think it sounds completely implausible.

Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: oren on May 23, 2019, 04:48:25 PM
I am sure some of the improvement has to do with electrification of the machine itself and of the whole operation. But I have not dug into the details too much. (Pun intended...)
The proof as usual will be in the pudding, in this case the pudding is the LVCC transit system.
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: Sigmetnow on May 23, 2019, 05:20:50 PM
I did wonder if the 10*faster was:

half the diameter so 4* less material to remove,
working near 100% of time instead of 50% stopped to fit tunnel panels
which leaves only 25% faster rate of material removal to get to 10* the speed.

Even so, 25% faster down a smaller tunnel likely requires some innovation.


Is it likely there has effectively been a tunnel building cartel that overcharges and doesn't bother trying to innovate to do it more cheaply? Small number of companies with quite high barriers to entry so I don't think it sounds completely implausible.

^^^ This.

Musk has shown he’s not the type to do things the way they’ve always been done. ;)

Also, electric motors are longer-lasting and have fewer parts to wear out, so downtime for maintenance will be less.  And considering that behemoth digging machines are often left in the ground onsite at the end of the project, being able to (quickly!) extract the Boring Company’s smaller TBM is another major cost-saver:
Quote
Based on the photographs we acquired, dozens of employees and/or contractors were present during the TBM extraction. The removal and transportation of the TBM segments from the Prairie Ave. pit appear to have been completed in ~24 hours from start to finish as well, as other members of the Teslarati team who visited the area not long after the photos were taken noted that the boring machine segments have already been transported elsewhere when they arrived.


Quote
As Musk explains, humans can walk at about three miles per hour. A tunnel boring machine, on the other hand, digs at the rate of about 0.003 miles per hour -- 1,000 times slower. Musk's objective with The Boring Company, therefore, is to accelerate the speed of tunnel-building by a factor of 10, to 0.03 miles per hour, or about the "speed" of a crawling snail. Such an improvement would cut the time to completion of a tunneling project by 50% to 66%, presumably with commensurate improvements in cost.
https://www.nasdaq.com/article/everything-you-need-to-know-about-elon-musks-not-so-boring-company-cm979283
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: GoSouthYoungins on May 23, 2019, 05:24:04 PM
Is it likely there has effectively been a tunnel building cartel...

Ya, that's it. The evil tunneling cartel.

Herrenknecht, Komatsu, Mitsubishi, Tianye Tolian, Hitachi Zosen, Xugong Kaigong, STEC, JIMT,NHI, Kawasaki, IHI, Terratec, CRTG, CRCHI, Tianhe, LNSS executives fly in from China, Japan, Europe, and North American and meet in a smoke filled room to conspire against the tunnel loving public.

Or Musk in a brazen liar and can't just magically 10X improve a refined technology just because he is sitting in traffic one day and in the most pathetic and whiny voice possible says, "Traffic is soul sucking! Poor me."

Which do you think is more likely?
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: Tor Bejnar on May 23, 2019, 05:25:55 PM
All of Crandles' points parallel my thinking. 

Drilling two 14' (okay, 4.25 m) diameter tunnels (half the volume of a single 28 footer [woops, 8.5 m]) simultaneously, with no increase in digging speed (based on material removed per minute per machine), will go four (4) times as fast (for the same 'two lanes of traffic').  With smaller "reusable" machines, they can work from both ends (economically): 8x faster (or from multiple midpoints, factor of 2 for each additional pair of start points).   Maybe the smaller machines will not be able to dig the same volume/minute, so the 8x is somewhat exaggerated, but still there is the "working near 100% of time instead of 50%" and the additional starting points.  15x looks pretty attainable.

Two 4.25 m tunnels will carry about the same 'volume' of traffic as a single 8.5 meter one.  With 'electric only' vehicles (and one-way flow of traffic) the volume of air needed to support human life decreases.  Using the middle 2 meters (vertical) of a tunnel for vehicles, leaves 1.25 m below (and above) for utilities and structure.  Is the upper arch needed for utilities?  Is 1.25 m adequate for utilities, etc.?

Just musing...
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: Sigmetnow on May 23, 2019, 05:52:09 PM
The Boring Company’s FAQ has more info to muse upon:
https://www.boringcompany.com/faq

Here’s a 1-minute video of a Model X entering, traversing, and leaving, the prototype tunnel in Hawthorne.  Plenty of space left for a larger vehicle.  Musk stated years ago that a tram-like design based on the Model X base could have a surprisingly large amount of room.

https://youtu.be/WQn-D-i5lyM

The TBC website offers this drawing of a cross-section of a tunnel.  The metal grid in the floor provides space for utilities as well as for any necessary foot traffic.
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: magnamentis on May 23, 2019, 06:03:25 PM
The Boring Company’s FAQ has more info to muse upon:
https://www.boringcompany.com/faq

Here’s a 1-minute video of a Model X entering, traversing, and leaving, the prototype tunnel in Hawthorne.  Plenty of space left for a larger vehicle.  Musk stated years ago that a tram-like design based on the Model X base could have a surprisingly large amount of room.

https://youtu.be/WQn-D-i5lyM

The TBC website offers this drawing of a cross-section of a tunnel.  The metal grid in the floor provides space for utilities as well as for any necessary foot traffic.

seriously, this will never prevail

referring to your signature, of course it can be done, like i can jump from a cliff, bridge or tower, it can be done but the question will be whether it can be done successfully, meeting the goals without a too high prize tag.

this won't happen this way, why not concentrate on feasible AS WELL AS useful tasks at hand
why jump form one hyped illusion an science fiction like idea to the next. if we continue
dreaming about getting rid of vehicles by star-trek-like "BEAMING" transportation we won't live to see any significant progress ;)
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: Sigmetnow on May 23, 2019, 06:53:52 PM

seriously, this will never prevail
...

Since it has been done (Hawthorne), and has been contracted for more (Las Vegas), and has others under study (Los Angeles, Chicago, Baltimore to Washington), your opinion has no basis in fact. 

A serious, 500-page, governmental study right here:
https://www.dcbaltimoreloop.com/DraftLoopEA.pdf
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: Neven on May 23, 2019, 09:34:23 PM
Thanks for depressing me with that video.  :(
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: Sigmetnow on May 23, 2019, 09:54:05 PM
Thanks for depressing me with that video.  :(

Sorry.
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: magnamentis on May 24, 2019, 12:07:48 AM

seriously, this will never prevail
...

Since it has been done (Hawthorne), and has been contracted for more (Las Vegas), and has others under study (Los Angeles, Chicago, Baltimore to Washington), your opinion has no basis in fact. 

A serious, 500-page, governmental study right here:
https://www.dcbaltimoreloop.com/DraftLoopEA.pdf

i said prevail, means ready and implemented as major transportation facilities and that people will use it and it won't produce disasters and losses over decades.

this has not been done, i can do a prototype of many things that will never be used or seen thereafter. i've done that myself with this:

watch the videos if you find them, those things were flying and still aerodynamics took another path

http://turbo-wing-development.org.magnamentis.com/Memberarea/23300-a-cessna-337.html

http://turbo-wing-development.org.magnamentis.com/Memberarea/24000-w-craftconcept.html

http://turbo-wing-development.org.magnamentis.com/Memberarea/27000-downloads.html

perhaps neven likes the video, it can be downloaded ;)

they are old of course, i was working on that project decades ago but other than many i
tried to do real stuff to safe fuel.

it was done as you can see but did not prevail, simple as that. if you read the webpage you ca see that huge fuel savings, payload increase and noise pollution near airports due to angle of climb, short take of and landing etc. was achieved and still the aircraft industrie preferred to use their "paid for / paid-off) technology over having to pay for the patent of this. only lockheed once tried to purchase the patent to let it disappear in a drawer to avoid competition. long story TLTR here.

right now i'm working on a food project that will safe huge amounts of electricity in storage and help reduce the number of life-cattle world wide significantly. one prototype production plant is funtioning, i'll open a thread once a full scale production facitlity wlll be operational.

https://youtu.be/KR1jdNx_SCE

Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: GoSouthYoungins on May 24, 2019, 02:02:27 AM
Why not make tunneling 1,000,000X better?!? Dig 0.5 meter holes and send individuals through pneumatic tubes. Wait til Baltimore sees this! They will probably want to do a 5,000 page study proving it will prevail.
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: GoSouthYoungins on May 24, 2019, 02:05:33 AM
Does anyone know any of Prufrock's innovative brilliance that is going to upend the tunneling industry? Nope. Just some more Musk Vaporware.
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: Sigmetnow on May 24, 2019, 11:58:59 AM
Split-screen video: Los Angeles street traffic vs. zipping through the tunnel in a Model X.
Which air would you rather breathe?

Quote
Elon Musk (@elonmusk)5/24/19, 2:35 AM
Racing at 127mph in a tunnel under LA
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1131810953933123584
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: Archimid on May 24, 2019, 12:13:31 PM
So you admit it: no innovation or technological breakthrough, just the hope that by "iterating the design" they will somehow end up with a 10X better product. WOW. JUST WOW.

As simple as that.
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: GoSouthYoungins on May 24, 2019, 05:23:08 PM
So you admit it: no innovation or technological breakthrough, just the hope that by "iterating the design" they will somehow end up with a 10X better product. WOW. JUST WOW.

As simple as that.

Real world mechanical stuff works in basically the opposite way. Over time, each iteration sees a smaller and smaller improvement. Only when science provides extremely new understanding, materials, or processes does the mechanism's design improve significantly.

Commercial airplanes for example improved an enormous amount in their first 50 years. In the last 50 years there has been hardly any improvement. There are just some physical resistances  which take too much compromise to break through. Once the basic design balance gets figured out, there isn't much left to make better.

An even better example is firearms. They really have hit their practical limits long ago. The most well liked handgun was invented over a hundred years ago. New designs come out all the time but most people agree the Browning nailed it with the 1911. Same with bigger guns too: The Browning M2 is the best heavy machine gun ever made and it has been for a hundred years. There are been slight improvements in some recent iterations. The back plate has change a bit, and recently the barrels don't have to be head-spaced and timed. These are not 10X better but 1.1X improvements.

Tunneling has been figured out. There are slightly different designs for different mediums and sizes etc. Any of the dozens of tunneling companies would be thrilled to come up with 1.1X improvement. Musk just being impatient doesn't change the physical realities.
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: Archimid on May 24, 2019, 10:28:48 PM
Quote
Real world mechanical stuff works in basically the opposite way. Over time, each iteration sees a smaller and smaller improvement. Only when science provides extremely new understanding, materials, or processes does the mechanism's design improve significantly.

Like for example, how electric vehicles are revolutionizing the car industry by providing more miles per energy spent and quicker vehicles or how self landing rockets is revolutionizing the space launch industry by decreasing cost.


And to be clear, they are not increasing tunneling speed 10x. They are making tunneling 10x cheaper. Big difference.
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: crandles on May 25, 2019, 05:40:56 PM
No sled or tracking wheels, max speed 127mph

2 min "race" video.

https://twitter.com/boringcompany/status/1131809805876654080

Asked "Just on autopilot?"
Elon replies "pretty much" (take that as you see fit)
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: GoSouthYoungins on May 25, 2019, 05:47:32 PM
Like for example, how electric vehicles are revolutionizing the car industry by providing more miles per energy spent and quicker vehicles or how self landing rockets is revolutionizing the space launch industry by decreasing cost.

Those things haven't actually happened yet. I understand that you think they are going to, but they haven't yet. It is important to see the difference.

Electric vehicles have been around for a long time. The range is limited due to energy density and so to make a car that people want to drive is very expensive. Musk addressed this by making his brand a status symbol so people would be will to pay for the expensive design. But their aren't enough people willing to pay enough for the status symbol, so the luxury brand is always losing money and thus will be short lived. That isn't revolutionary.

Landing rockets have been around for half a century. There are some big advantages to reusable rockets, but there are some big downsides too. For the ups to outweigh the downs, the rocket has to be able to be reused many times. SpaceX thinks this number is 10. And they talk about doing that. But they haven't yet. Not even close.
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: interstitial on May 26, 2019, 01:50:25 AM
Like for example, how electric vehicles are revolutionizing the car industry by providing more miles per energy spent and quicker vehicles or how self landing rockets is revolutionizing the space launch industry by decreasing cost.

Those things haven't actually happened yet. I understand that you think they are going to, but they haven't yet. It is important to see the difference.

Electric vehicles have been around for a long time. The range is limited due to energy density and so to make a car that people want to drive is very expensive. Musk addressed this by making his brand a status symbol so people would be will to pay for the expensive design. But their aren't enough people willing to pay enough for the status symbol, so the luxury brand is always losing money and thus will be short lived. That isn't revolutionary.

Landing rockets have been around for half a century. There are some big advantages to reusable rockets, but there are some big downsides too. For the ups to outweigh the downs, the rocket has to be able to be reused many times. SpaceX thinks this number is 10. And they talk about doing that. But they haven't yet. Not even close.


mpge is miles per gallon equivalent. The equivalent part is energy meaning the same amount of energy as a gallon of gas. Most mpge equivalent numbers are north of 100 meaning more miles per energy spent compared to gas. Though to be fair electric motors were more energy efficient long before Tesla came on the scene.
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: Sigmetnow on May 26, 2019, 02:07:25 PM
...
Landing rockets have been around for half a century.
Not from earth orbit they haven’t!  SpaceX was the first — and so far, the only, one to do that.  (Blue Origin did not reach orbital velocity.)

Quote
There are some big advantages to reusable rockets, but there are some big downsides too. For the ups to outweigh the downs, the rocket has to be able to be reused many times. SpaceX thinks this number is 10.
Incorrect.  The Block 5 Falcon 9 being made now is built to be reusable about 10 times with minimal refurbishment — the goal for 2019 is to show a turnaround time of 24 hours — and about 100 times in all.

Imagine if airplanes were thrown away after one flight.  That is where the rocket industry was until today. SpaceX’s disruption to the industry is immense.

SpaceX has used and landed booster B1049 three times so far.  Launch cadence will pick up sharply now that they are deploying their own Starlink satellites, in addition to payloads from other companies.



Back on topic:  spy photos show the new TBM being constructed:

Elon Musk’s ‘Monty Python’ tower knight keeps watch over Boring Co’s TBM preparations
https://www.teslarati.com/elon-musk-monty-python-watchtower-knight-boring-company-tbm/
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: Archimid on May 26, 2019, 03:22:56 PM
If Musk can take Boring to where Space launches and electric mobility are today, the boring industry is in for a revolution
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: GoSouthYoungins on May 26, 2019, 03:41:51 PM
Quote
There are some big advantages to reusable rockets, but there are some big downsides too. For the ups to outweigh the downs, the rocket has to be able to be reused many times. SpaceX thinks this number is 10.
Incorrect.  The Block 5 Falcon 9 being made now is built to be reusable about 10 times with minimal refurbishment — the goal for 2019 is to show a turnaround time of 24 hours — and about 100 times in all.

You seem to really struggle with the difference between hoping something will work, and something that has already worked. They are up to 3 so far. Simple fact. Not 10, not 100, 3.
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: GoSouthYoungins on May 26, 2019, 03:43:10 PM
If Musk can take Boring to where Space launches and electric mobility are today, the boring industry is in for a revolution

What exactly do you think that would look like?
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: rboyd on May 27, 2019, 07:22:28 PM
Maybe like this...

Elon Musk Says ‘Hyperloop’ Tunnel Is Now Just a Normal Car Tunnel Because ‘This Is Simple and Just Works’

Quote
Back in 2017, Elon Musk had grand visions for the test track built by The Boring Company, his tunneling firm, in Los Angeles. The Boring Company’s tunneling work was closely linked to Musk’s Hyperloop idea, which would require hundreds of miles of tunneling to be viable, although the actual test track in California bore none of the traits of an air vacuum-based transportation system. It would have proprietary vehicles with varying capacities for private travel, public transport, or freight. They would travel along electrified skates for frictionless movement. It would be fast and efficient, but more importantly, it would be different, because he’s a genius.

Six months ago, the first demonstration of that track didn’t quite match that vision: it was a Tesla Model X on a sled going down a very bumpy tunnel at roughly 50 mph.

Quote
The video’s marketing conceit is that the car in the tunnel beats a car trying to go the same distance on roads. You’ll never believe this, but the car that has a dedicated right of way wins. Congratulations to The Boring Company for proving dedicated rights of way are important for speedy transportation, something transportation planners figured out roughly two centuries ago. I’m afraid for how many tunnels they’ll have to dig before they likewise acknowledge the validity of induced demand.

Quote
To recap: Musk’s company spent two years developing a very narrow car tunnel. To anyone who ever believed Elon Musk’s bullshit: you’ve been had.

https://jalopnik.com/elon-musk-says-hyperloop-tunnel-is-now-just-a-normal-1835024474 (https://jalopnik.com/elon-musk-says-hyperloop-tunnel-is-now-just-a-normal-1835024474)
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: Sigmetnow on May 27, 2019, 08:28:17 PM
Maybe like this...

Elon Musk Says ‘Hyperloop’ Tunnel Is Now Just a Normal Car Tunnel Because ‘This Is Simple and Just Works’
...

The article says in essence, “You promised us high tech!  This is just a paved tunnel!  With a Normal Car!”

First, the Model X with Autopilot is not a “normal car.”  Let’s see them drive manually at 127 mph down a narrow, turning track and see how they do.

Without sleds, Jalopnik’s ICE cars wouldn’t be allowed to drive in the tunnels at all, so there’s that.

This is Now.  No reason sleds can’t happen later.  Seems like the Las Vegas project will need ‘people pods’ of some sort, which will be a new development.
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: Archimid on May 27, 2019, 08:33:02 PM
Quote
Congratulations to The Boring Company for proving dedicated rights of way are important for speedy transportation, something transportation planners figured out roughly two centuries ago.

Right. The only contribution is extending dedicated rights of way lanes into the third dimension. Not revolutionary at all /s
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: Sigmetnow on May 27, 2019, 09:56:54 PM
“The Strait Times also reported that at least 40 train services in eastern Hokkaido were canceled over concerns that the extreme heat may distort the tracks.”
 :o 
Not a problem in Boring tunnels.... 8)

https://www.accuweather.com/en/weather-news/record-heat-turns-deadly-in-japan-on-sunday-relief-to-arrive-on-tuesday/70008369
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: GoSouthYoungins on May 29, 2019, 05:17:50 PM
Quote
Congratulations to The Boring Company for proving dedicated rights of way are important for speedy transportation, something transportation planners figured out roughly two centuries ago.

Right. The only contribution is extending dedicated rights of way lanes into the third dimension. Not revolutionary at all /s

You should look into buying the ground space between NYC and Beijing in a straight line, 14 feet wide. The shortest distance is a straight line, and one day this will be highly profitable ground space. Ignore the fact that digging holes is extremely capital intensive, because these costs will come down 10X in the next year, and 10X in the year after that, and then basically it will be free. Cuz iterations.
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: rboyd on May 30, 2019, 12:00:59 AM
Its Moore's law right, or is that just for computers?
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: Sigmetnow on June 04, 2019, 03:06:23 AM
Math. (Because your Loop car stops only at your destination.)

Quote
< ... but really, how is putting a car through a tunnel more efficient than a train?  One car doing 60 mph is faster than a train carrying a thousand people doing 30 mph?
Elon Musk (@elonmusk) 6/3/19, 8:41 PM
Avg speed of NY Subway is actually 17mph. TBC loop can run at 155mph with 16 pax autopods passing every second, routing automatically between tunnels to their destination. That’s 57,600/hour/lane & you can build dozens of lanes. Will crush any subway in throughput & convenience.
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1135708083643191296
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: GoSouthYoungins on June 06, 2019, 07:34:45 AM
https://www.inverse.com/article/56397-boring-company-subway-comparison

Elon Musk: Boring Co Loop "Will Crush" Subways in Throughput, Convenience

Musk may want to reconsider his tunnels being associating with "crush"ing. But hey, what can you expect from a bunch of total amateurs trying to drastically improve on a refined industrial process.
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: oren on June 06, 2019, 08:12:01 AM
Quote
TBC loop can run at 155mph with 16 pax autopods passing every second, routing automatically between tunnels to their destination,” Musk’s response reads. “That’s 57,600/hour/lane & you can build dozens of lanes.
I can think of so many negative aspects for this type of setup (risk of accidents, ride inconvenience, need for very costly development of control technology, and much more), so I am extremely skeptical of these numbers. The proof will be in the pudding - the LVCC transit system - but no way it will reach such throughput or even 1/10 of that.
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: b_lumenkraft on June 06, 2019, 08:46:38 AM
risk of accidents, ride inconvenience, need for very costly development of control technology, and much more

Funny Oren, these are exactly the point that convinced me of the concept.

You couldn't do it with humans driving. That's for sure.

In which scenario could it actually be possible? It would require a closed, somewhat deterministic system with fast and updatable computers, accurate sensors, and interconnectivity.

Well, that's exactly what this is, isn't it?
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: Sigmetnow on June 06, 2019, 03:11:54 PM
Human control of trains is far from perfect;  stupid human interactions with speeding surface trains are too numerous to count.  And the US has been ridiculously slow in installing Positive Train Control, which could at least help.  Time to stop putting bandaids on an antiquated system.  Instead, mass transport must evolve.
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: GoSouthYoungins on June 06, 2019, 03:31:16 PM
risk of accidents, ride inconvenience, need for very costly development of control technology, and much more

Funny Oren, these are exactly the point that convinced me of the concept.

You couldn't do it with humans driving. That's for sure.

In which scenario could it actually be possible? It would require a closed, somewhat deterministic system with fast and updatable computers, accurate sensors, and interconnectivity.

Well, that's exactly what this is, isn't it?

No, it isn't. The sensors aren't accurate and there isn't interconnectivity.
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: Bob Wallace on June 13, 2019, 06:06:51 AM
Have some people here not ever been involved in doing something for the first time?  Something somewhat complex.  Generally one starts with some assumptions and refines their ideas as things are tried and better ideas developed.  We didn't get to the Moon by simply building a rocket and going there.  We worked our way there through numerous steps, developing the hardware needed over time.

A few years back Musk proposed the hyperloop, traveling through an almost vacuum in a tube at speeds faster than passenger jets.  He envisioned using an air compressor on the front of the passenger/freight pod to compress what air was in the tube and then blow it out through jets to position the pod equal distance from the tube walls.

There are a few problems with an above ground metal tube.  Acquiring right of way can be difficult and expensive, lots of NIMBY sorts of issues.  A metal tube exposed to sunlight is going to expand and then shrink as it cools.  Which means a bunch of tricky expansion joints.  And JoeBilly could easily shoot some holes in it 'just for fun', or more sinister people could blow up a section.

A solution to those three problems might be to go underground.  In order to make a tunnel water tight it has to be more than capable of maintaining a partial vacuum.  Tunnels are out of sight, out of mind.  And it's not hard to detect someone or something digging its way toward the tunnel long before damage could be inflicted.

But there's the cost of tunneling.  Musk and his crew of merry thinkers went to work and decided that by simply making the tunnels small they became much cheaper per mile.  Then they worked through a number of thing that they could do to drastically lower the cost of tunneling.  Things like almost constantly drilling rather than, on average, ten minutes out of each hour.  Improving the cooling system for the cutter so that it could run at higher speeds.  Finding a way to dispose of the wastes at no cost or even a bit of a profit.

Then bootstrapping.  Building a hyperloop from LA to NYC would require a lot more than pocket change.  The best route is probably building some somewhat short but very fast subway systems in which all rides are 'express', no stops between getting on and arriving at destination.  Build some systems, sell rides, make profits, use profits to build a modest length hyperloop.

The cheapest initial vehicle would be to take an existing battery powered car that could safely travel at 150+ MPH in the tunnel and simply use it.  Later a higher capacity passenger could be built but not until the first system is up, running, and making money.  In fact, it would be very possible to take the Tesla S/X skateboard and bolt a eight or twelve passenger pod on in place of the sedan/SUV body.

Boring has demonstrated that they can drill a tunnel rapidly and at a very attractive cost.  And that is using only a modified used tunneling machine.  Boring has the next two generations of their custom designed tunneling machines in production. 

Boring has demonstrated that they can use an 'off the shelf' Tesla and safely drive their short test tunnel at speeds in excess of 125 MPH.  The first used 'guiding wheels' to keep the car centered in the tunnel but later showed that Tesla's lane keeping software could accurately steer the car.  Yes, the ride was a bit bumpy but, remember, right up front Musk explained that the tunnel driving surface had not been installed.

Boring has demonstrated a prefab elevator that can be quickly installed and moves vehicles from street level to tunnel level rapidly.

Communication between vehicles and between vehicles and 'central command'?  How hard can that be.  Send out position and speed data a few times per second.  If a problem develops issue an "All Stop" to all vehicles behind the vehicle with a problem.  Sensors along the tunnel can serve to backup and verify data from individual cars.

Why would we want this to work?  Imagine leaving your house in a robotaxi, riding a short distance to a Loop spur, changing vehicles, and then going to the airport 20 miles away non-stop at over 150 MPH.  For small money.  Using renewable energy.

Think about not spending a half hour or more each day commuting in bumper to bumper traffic but zipping to work and then back home, giving you an extra hour each day to do something other than commute.

Will it work?  Maybe.  Looks good so far other than finding places to build the first few projects that will be needed for proof of concept.  (Or more proof of concept.)  Boring can bore economically, run cars at high speeds, and move them from surface street to tunnel quickly.  Now the remaining question becomes how inexpensive can they make it.
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: b_lumenkraft on June 13, 2019, 07:50:23 AM
Have some people here not ever been involved in doing something for the first time?  Something somewhat complex.  Generally one starts with some assumptions and refines their ideas as things are tried and better ideas developed.

This is literally how the world works.

Though logic and reason will not convince everyone i'm afraid.
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: Sigmetnow on August 03, 2019, 10:36:03 PM
Wow.

Quote
Vincent (@vincent13031925) 8/2/19, 11:20 PM
Tesla CEO @elonmusk will attend (WAIC) World Artificial Intelligence Conference of 2019 in Shanghai China at August, 29~31th
$TSLA #Tesla
 https://t.cj.sina.com.cn/articles/view/1891330474/70bb69aa00100gav1 [Chinese]

Quote
E (@elonmusk) 8/3/19, 2:40 AM
Will also be launching The Boring Company China on this trip
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1157541685980610560

< Will the Boring Company also do underwater tunnels?
EM:  Yes
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: TerryM on August 04, 2019, 01:49:18 AM
I apologize for removing a post (1st time ever), as I noted that I was responding to a VERY old posting.


Sorry if it caused an inconvenience. :-[
Terry
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: Sigmetnow on October 01, 2019, 09:14:59 PM
Quote
Vital Vegas (@VitalVegas) 9/18/19, 2:35 PM
Elon Musk's tunnel project at the Las Vegas Convention Center just went from WTF to OMFG.
https://twitter.com/vitalvegas/status/1174391620197765120
Photos (of construction equiipment on site) at the link.


The Boring Company’s Las Vegas Loop tunnel project is coming to life
Quote
The Boring Company’s upcoming Loop project at the Las Vegas Convention Center appears to be coming to life, with the first images of the startup’s dig site emerging online. Images that have emerged of the startup’s activities reveal that The Boring Company has started shipping parts of a tunnel boring machine to Las Vegas, with a TBM cutter head and mixing chamber recently arriving at the location.

Initial pictures of The Boring Company’s activities were shared on Twitter last week, courtesy of @JamesInLasVegas. The photos depicted heavy machinery surrounding the tunneling startup’s dig site, including several cranes and what appeared to be a pile driver. An image of a tunnel boring machine’s cutter head was also posted.

A source familiar with the Boring Company’s current activities for the Las Vegas Convention Center Loop project recently informed Teslarati that the startup’s activities have started ramping over the past few weeks. The source, who has asked to remain anonymous, added that The Boring Company has been granted a pit permit, and thus, the startup has started the construction of a secant wall for the Loop system’s passenger station located on the east end of the LVCC’s South Hall.
...
Images of what appeared to be a new TBM being assembled at the tunneling startup’s lot in the vicinity of the SpaceX headquarters in Hawthorne have been captured a few months ago. With this in mind, there seems to be a good chance that The Boring Company’s Las Vegas project could utilize one of the startup’s newer machines. Perhaps The Boring Company will play it safe and deploy Godot, which has already been tried and tested at Hawthorne, or perhaps the startup could utilize Line-Storm or Prufrock to complete the project faster.
https://www.teslarati.com/elon-musk-boring-company-las-vegas-loop-tunnel-update-pictures/

Below: The Boring Company's TBM cutter head and mixing chamber arrive at the Las Vegas dig site.
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: Sigmetnow on October 01, 2019, 09:26:33 PM
Couple more photos.

Quote
ONΞ POSITIVΞ DUDΞ 8) (@OnePositiveDude) 9/25/19, 12:15 AM
I saw these too.
https://twitter.com/onepositivedude/status/1176711688822939649
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: crandles on October 09, 2019, 03:44:08 PM
Re query about being electric: Maybe these are just puff pieces but suggestion seems to be Linestorm, soon to be deployed, is a hybrid of some sort.

Quote
Despite its custom hardware and speed, it should be noted that Line-Storm is not the end-all and be-all of The Boring Company’s tunnel boring machines. Beyond Line-Storm, the tunneling startup is also working on Prufrock, a TBM designed from the ground up by The Boring Company. Being fully electric, Prufrock is expected to be capable of digging 10-15x faster than current TBMs, with zero emissions and with very little noise.
https://www.teslarati.com/boring-company-line-storm-tunneling-machine-active/

Quote
Elon Musk has since announced that the startup is working on two new machines, a hybrid TBM named Line-Storm, which is capable of digging around twice as fast as Godot, and Prufrock, an all-electric TBM that can dig around 10-15 times faster than a conventional tunneling machine, with very little noise and zero emissions.
https://www.teslarati.com/elon-musk-boring-company-las-vegas-loop-tunnel-update-pictures/
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: TerryM on October 09, 2019, 09:54:44 PM
Chris
Hybrid TBM's, are also known as Crossover TBM's. This indicates that they can be used to tunnel in 'varying ground types". Hybrid in this usage has nothing to do with the power source.


Crossover TBMs are machine designs that feature advantages from two different types of TBMs, and can “cross over” between widely varying ground types that would normally require multiple machines. They are also known as hybrid or dual mode machines in the tunneling industry. For more on the various Crossover TBMs, please click on the links below to learn more about each machine type.
https://www.therobbinscompany.com/products/tunnel-boring-machines/crossover-machines/ (https://www.therobbinscompany.com/products/tunnel-boring-machines/crossover-machines/)
[/size]
[/size]Terry
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: Sigmetnow on October 10, 2019, 01:54:13 PM
That Robbins Company site is interesting.  They do mention “variable frequency electric motors,” but I can find no other details except “multi-speed gearboxes.”

They do not tout a lack of need for power cables, so they probably do not use batteries to power their TBM.  The use of a gearbox brings to mind the fact that the predecessor to the original Tesla Roadster had a two-speed transmission (as does the Porsche Taycan), but Tesla eliminated it for their cars.  Teslas electric motor expertise would be of benefit here.

From the 2018 Recode interview with Elon Musk:
Quote
In talking to the engineering heads of the various tunneling companies, he found that they had no idea if their machines were power-limited or thermal-limited.  “Things like increasing power is relatively easy, and then you hit the threshold where youʼve added so much power that youʼre melting the drill head.”  So he took “rocket technology and automotive technology and applying it to drilling.”  And made it electric, which eliminates deadly fumes in the tunnel, and used batteries, which eliminates the need for a huge, very long power cable.  “We need to massively crank up the power to the drill head, and then ... we need to cool it.”  And automate the placement of the tunnel reinforcements, so digging doesn’t have to stop while that is done.

The Robbins equipment has several pre- and post-digging features, but I don’t see that it installs cement tunnel reinforcement rings as it digs.  (Tesla TBC makes their rings out of the bored tunnel rock plus a little cement, meaning less has to be transported or disposed of.)

Robbins is proud of their conveyor systems.  They note that with a continuous conveyor, “Trains can be fewer and smaller” and “Ventilation requirements reduced,” suggesting diesel locomotives are the most common option.  Extending a muckout line with a few rails for a battery-powered locomotive would require much less effort and equipment than extending a conveyor behind the TBM for miles as it digs.  Also, using rails leaves the tunnel open to comfortably transport personnel and supplies in, as well as the carloads of muck out.
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: oren on October 11, 2019, 04:12:15 PM
Quote
Tesla makes their rings out of the bored tunnel rock plus a little cement, meaning less has to be transported or disposed of.
Not Tesla, TBC.
And a lot of TBC "features" are engineering goals, not actual capabilities. Ideas, good ideas probably, design from first principles, but more brochure than product.
Such confusion between roadmap and vision and between actual timeline and product is what gets Musk into the "liar" blame later. Were he to clarify his initial visionary statements, some trouble would be avoided.
The proof, as always, is in the pudding.
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: Sigmetnow on October 11, 2019, 09:35:37 PM
Quote
Tesla makes their rings out of the bored tunnel rock plus a little cement, meaning less has to be transported or disposed of.
Not Tesla, TBC.
And a lot of TBC "features" are engineering goals, not actual capabilities. Ideas, good ideas probably, design from first principles, but more brochure than product.
Such confusion between roadmap and vision and between actual timeline and product is what gets Musk into the "liar" blame later. Were he to clarify his initial visionary statements, some trouble would be avoided.
The proof, as always, is in the pudding.

Fixed, thanks.

The proof may be in the watchtower.  ;)
The Boring Company cleverly lays bricks on Elon Musk's 'Monty Python' watchtower
https://www.teslarati.com/the-boring-company-lays-bricks-elon-musk-monty-python-watchtower-pictures/

Elon Musk's Boring Company unveils bricks being produced from dirt dug in its tunnels
https://electrek.co/2018/07/13/elon-musk-boring-company-bricks-dirt-tunnels/

Elon Musk's Boring Co. to build concrete batch plant for tunnel
https://www.teslarati.com/elon-musk-boring-company-concrete-rings-tunnels/

The Las Vegas tunnel project should give us a better look at their progress so far.
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: Sigmetnow on October 22, 2019, 06:50:24 PM
Oct 22
The Boring Company’s Las Vegas tunnel project enters full construction phase
https://www.teslarati.com/elon-musk-the-boring-company-las-vegas-tunnel-update/


Live Webcam!  (Still image below.)
Multivista Construction Documentation
http://webcampub.multivista.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=aPublicWebcam.page&WebcamPublicPageUID=FD9828FA-A43B-4DA8-A461-DD25834D7278
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: Sigmetnow on October 29, 2019, 04:02:45 AM
Las Vegas:

Cutterhead section of the boring machine was just now lowered into place!

http://webcampub.multivista.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=aPublicWebcam.page&WebcamPublicPageUID=FD9828FA-A43B-4DA8-A461-DD25834D7278
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: Sigmetnow on October 29, 2019, 04:10:06 AM
The above construction site is at the east end of the Las Vegas Convention center.

The station at other end of the Loop will apparently be in or next to the New Exhibit Hall being constructed in what was a big parking lot across the street from the west end of the conference center.

You can see the new building under construction here:
Las Vegas Convention Center - Construction Camera by EarthCam
https://www.earthcam.net/projects/turnermartinharris/lasvegasconventioncenter/
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: Sigmetnow on November 04, 2019, 08:11:46 PM
Las Vegas update:  The other two sections of the TBM were lowered into the excavation site, along with lots of metal infrastructure. (Note “The Boring Company” crane. :) )  Now, lots of cement tunnel reinforcement ring sections are making their way down.

The top of the dig site has been kept well-organized and in good repair.  They even repaved the far side and fenced it off with a road and walkway.  There’s a scaffold with stairs now, also.
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: GoSouthYoungins on November 05, 2019, 06:11:00 AM
prediction:

Boring "Company" is not 10x better at tunneling, but rather, 2x worse.
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: Sigmetnow on November 09, 2019, 08:21:21 PM
Well, this explains the fresh pavement: The nearby street was closed off, and the hours-long parade of custom cars for the SEMA car show at the LV Convention Center went right through the TBC construction lot! :o  It does give the LVCC a handy way to show off the transit project in their SEMA materials….
Good timing, TBC.  Also notice the bright new lights inside the pit.
The street remains closed off today, so another parade tonight seems likely. No, they are finally removing the barriers now. :)
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: Sigmetnow on November 13, 2019, 07:38:41 PM
Big bricks and tunnel brace sections (upper left), likely made with the dig-site dirt, as promised.
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: GoSouthYoungins on November 14, 2019, 01:12:13 AM
Big bricks and tunnel brace sections (upper left), likely made with the dig-site dirt, as promised.

This is the d*mbest thing ever.

I'm ever into earthworks. But this is the d**best thing ever.

Has boring company created a new drilling machine? No. Does the dirt the are digging up make for good rammed earth? No. This is the dumbest thing ever.

Who think that tunneling is the key to sustainability? Only the ****est ppl ever.

Bricks are basically free. The cost is in the transportation and resale. The dirt is nothing. Super nothing. That culttards think this is smart is the *um*best thing ever.
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: Sigmetnow on November 16, 2019, 01:15:20 AM
Quite amusing how the project’s steady progress brings out the vitriol in the anti-Musk forces....

Big media event today as Boring begins on the Las Vegas Tunnel.

Elon Musk's Boring Co. begins tunnel construction for Las Vegas Convention Center people mover | Construction Dive
Quote
Dive Brief
   •   Elon Musk's tunneling company, The Boring Co.,  will begin underground construction on a tunnel for a tram system at the Las Vegas Convention Center on Friday, Nov. 15.
   •   The company’s first major underground tunneling project paired it with the Las Vegas Convention and Visitors Authority (LVCVA). The people mover project is contracted at $52.5 million and scheduled to be completed in January 2021, in time for the annual Consumer Electronics Show. Aboveground work on stations and stops began last month, after TBC's boring machine was assembled on site.
   •   The convention center loop could be just the start of TBC’s work in Las Vegas. The tunneling company is currently working with the local government on a possible project to construct a tunnel underneath the Las Vegas strip, Jackie Dennis, director of communications for the LVCVA, told Construction Dive.
https://www.constructiondive.com/news/elon-musks-boring-co-begins-tunnel-construction-for-las-vegas-convention/565998/

Digging begins for Las Vegas Convention Center people-mover system
Elon Musk’s The Boring Company switched on its tunnel-digging boring machines Friday to begin work on a $52.5 million people-mover
https://www.reviewjournal.com/business/tourism/digging-begins-for-las-vegas-convention-center-people-mover-system-1893584/
Article, photos and videos.
Edit: From the video:  The TBM is all-electric.  The drill-head is designed for soft and hard materials.  They are already below the water table there; the TBM is sealed and pressurized, and of course the tunnel will be sealed.  Also, the Tesla vehicles that will be using the tunnel “don’t mind a little rain.”

Another edit: the reporter mentions the TBM bores “about 100 feet [30 meters] a day.” 
At that rate, each of the ~.8 mile (1.3 km) twin tunnels could be dug in about 6 weeks.

Map below is from the Boring Company website.  The featured dig site is at location 1.
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: BeeKnees on December 29, 2019, 01:16:09 PM
Not sure if it's been mentioned that the vehicles running on the las Vegas tunnel will be modified Model X with room for 16 passengers.  Seems impossible to fit that number in the tree footprint of such a car so it will be interesting to see what comes out and whether it will be usable at ground level.

https://www.boringcompany.com/lvcc
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: crandles on December 29, 2019, 01:36:16 PM
Not sure if it's been mentioned that the vehicles running on the las Vegas tunnel will be modified Model X with room for 16 passengers.  Seems impossible to fit that number in the tree footprint of such a car so it will be interesting to see what comes out and whether it will be usable at ground level.

Quote
High-occupancy AEVs use a modified Tesla Model X chassis to transport up to 16 passengers with both sitting and standing room.

I wondered if this was 16 standing but fewer if/when seats are folded down for use.

However the FAQ page
https://www.boringcompany.com/faq/
 says
Quote
TBC currently uses Tesla Model Xs, modified with alignment wheels and, for certain projects, an extended chassis to accommodate up to 16 passengers.

An extended chassis may well be cumbersome at ground level. Or maybe it becomes the Tesla stretch limo. (Perhaps rather doubtful with no new reveals for a while.)
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: BeeKnees on December 29, 2019, 03:24:24 PM
An extended chassis may well be cumbersome at ground level. Or maybe it becomes the Tesla stretch limo. (Perhaps rather doubtful with no new reveals for a while.)

It may be an easy way in to the automated pods that are starting to appear at airports and pedestrianised areas.

I was thinking about the new carpark summon functionality, add a pod body to a model X chassis and you are well on the way to urban automated buses.
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: Shared Humanity on December 29, 2019, 07:19:28 PM
I do believe there is a bright future for The Boeing Company. The holes dug will not be to transport people but rather as shelters for people to escape death during life threatening heat waves.
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: Sigmetnow on December 29, 2019, 07:41:31 PM
I do believe there is a bright future for The Boeing Company. The holes dug will not be to transport people but rather as shelters for people to escape death during life threatening heat waves.

The people of historic Ellicott City, Maryland, have voted to drill a 15-foot diameter tunnel (among other things) to channel river water around the town so as to lessen the impact of increasingly prevalent flooding.  The article did not say what company would be digging the tunnel, but The Boring Company would likely be the cheapest and fastest, and that is the TBC tunnel size.

https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,1951.msg242054.html#msg242054
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: Sigmetnow on December 29, 2019, 07:45:51 PM
Updates

Oct 7, 2019
Boring Co. officials... estimate they could funnel between 12,000 and 15,000 passengers per hour through the tunnels, operating 100 vehicles at a time. The system would use three models of Tesla vehicles, including a 16-seat tram fitted on a Tesla chassis.
https://www.reviewjournal.com/business/conventions/las-vegas-monorail-boring-co-teams-building-relationship-1865275/

From the Boring LVCC FAQ:
What is an autonomous electric vehicle (AEV)?
Standard AEVs are Tesla Model X and Model 3 vehicles. High-occupancy AEVs use a modified Tesla Model X chassis to transport up to 16 passengers with both sitting and standing room.
https://www.boringcompany.com/lvcc

December 11:
Quote
Hill has always said that the project would create minimal surface disruption because it is underground. That means the first of two parallel tunnels should emerge near the West Hall before spring.
When the drill reaches that point, it will be removed from the tunnel, disassembled and moved back to the launch pit to drill the second, parallel hole.

Once the holes are completed, vehicles on Tesla chassis will be used to shuttle up to 16 passengers per vehicle to one of two stations.
The vehicle will top out at about 35 mph and will travel across the mile-long tunnel in a couple of minutes. On foot, such a trip would take 15 to 20 minutes, and there’s no direct route.

Broke ground Nov. 15.
The people-mover, due to open in time for CES 2021, is expected to be less expensive to build than conventional subway trains because the total diameter of the parallel tunnels, at 28 feet, are less expensive to produce. The interior diameter of a single tunnel is 12 feet with the outer casing at 13.5 feet. Boring officials say the system will cost three to four times less to build than a conventional transit system.
https://www.reviewjournal.com/business/conventions/people-mover-drill-going-full-bore-beneath-las-vegas-convention-center-1911592/

Elon did a Twitter poll:
Quote
Elon Musk (@elonmusk) 12/28/19, 12:39 PM
As expected, 69% want car tunnels! Stop whining, subway Stalinists, the people have spoken …
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1210978527518117889
Image below.

Elon Musk (@elonmusk) 12/27/19, 11:18 PM
Boring Co is completing its first commercial tunnel in Vegas, going from Convention Center to Strip, then will work on other projects
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1210777003390951429

Elon Musk (@elonmusk) 12/27/19, 11:20 PM
Hopefully fully operational in 2020
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1210777395738734593
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: Sigmetnow on January 13, 2020, 03:54:59 PM
The financial aspects

Elon Musk's First Boring Tunnel Could Open in Las Vegas This Year
Quote
... Nevertheless, the LA tunnel is more a proof of concept than an actual business project. In Las Vegas, Boring is expecting to collect actual revenue for its work -- perhaps as much as $53 million -- in Boring's "first commercial endeavor."

This, too, is a departure from the terms of the Chicago Loop project, which had proposed having Boring build the tunnel on its own dime, and collect its profits from operating the travel system on a concession basis. In Las Vegas, LVCC plans to operate its Loop free of charge.

What it means for The Boring Company
Not to put too fine a point on it, but for The Boring Company to become a viable business (much less a future candidate for IPO), the company needs customers -- and revenue. In Las Vegas, Boring finally appears to have found both. While it remains true that to date, neither Musk nor Boring have expressed any clear desire to "go public," evolving from a clever concept into a revenue-generating business would seem to, at the very least, make this a realistic possibility at some point in the future.
https://www.fool.com/investing/2020/01/13/elon-musks-first-boring-tunnel-could-open-in-las-v.aspx
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: Tor Bejnar on January 13, 2020, 05:24:50 PM
From the 'is it really useful' perspective:
Stop calling Elon Musk’s Boring tunnel public transit (https://www.curbed.com/2020/1/8/21046929/elon-musk-ces-vegas-boring-company)
Opinion piece by Alissa Walker@awalkerinLA Jan 8, 2020 [www.curbed.com] ends:
Quote
...
The bigger problem, however, is this: Each time a city (or a reporter) shows interest in Musk’s tunnel-boring scheme, it helps him sell more cars. And each time city leaders promote one of his fantastical ideas—tiny tunnels! with autonomous vehicles! platooning!—it does serious damage to the real-life solutions being proposed by experts that will actually make life better for their residents.

I keep saying this. No one seems to be listening. Because you can still read statements about the tunnels like this one, published in Popular Mechanics last week: “In about a year we should get a better sense of just how tunnels for individual EVs may or may not be able to solve traffic problems in cities.”

The Boring Company’s Vegas tunnel might seem mostly harmless in a city paved with moving sidewalks. But instead of putting people in cars to make a trip that takes 20 minutes on foot at most, imagine what impact $50 million* could have made on reducing vehicular trips to and from the convention center. What if the tourism authority had made that level of investment in the city’s bus system to not only help visitors get around, but also to improve the commutes for the 383,000 people who come to work there every day?

But that’s not who Musk’s “public transit” system is for. And we have to stop pretending that it was—or that it ever will be.
* - this is (rounded) the value of the contract between The Boring Company (TBC) and the Las Vegas Convention and Visitors Authority (identified earlier in the article).
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: oren on January 13, 2020, 10:07:43 PM
The LVCC needs a people mover between its halls, this is orthogonal to the Las Vegas bus issue.
The Boring Company for now is just a contractor for this people mover, this is indeed not really public transport. Should TBC ever get into public transport as a venture (rather than as contractors) it will be a different story, but for now the responsibility and decision making is with those hiring the contractors.
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: TerryM on January 14, 2020, 10:22:51 AM
This is one project that needs to come in on time. It should be easy, but Elon often works to "Musk Time"


The people he signed contracts with are "serious" people. They don't rely on the courts.


Terry
Long time Las Vegas resident.
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: Sigmetnow on January 16, 2020, 09:51:52 PM
The Boring Company’s Las Vegas tunnel is nearly 50% done
Quote
Elon Musk’s Boring Company has made plenty of progress with its Las Vegas Convention Center people mover. The underground tunnel is now about 50% complete and around six football fields in length, according to the Las Vegas Convention and Visitors Authority.

The Boring Company officially started tunneling for the people mover after a ceremonial groundbreaking event on November 15. In just two months, the project is nearly halfway completed.
...
https://www.teslarati.com/the-boring-companys-las-vegas-tunnel-is-nearly-50-done/
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: crandles on January 16, 2020, 10:16:43 PM
The Boring Company’s Las Vegas tunnel is nearly 50% done

50% of length dug is a long way short of project being 50% done.
Title: Re: The Boring Company
Post by: Sigmetnow on January 16, 2020, 10:43:58 PM
The Boring Company’s Las Vegas tunnel is nearly 50% done

50% of length dug is a long way short of project being 50% done.

Perhaps.  But it’s a hell of a lot more than the “Tunnels in LV are impossible because of the rocks/sand/water table/etc.” crowd would have you believe.  Half dug in only two months is an impressive start.