Arctic Sea Ice : Forum

AGW in general => Policy and solutions => Topic started by: rboyd on June 13, 2017, 09:47:28 PM

Title: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: rboyd on June 13, 2017, 09:47:28 PM
What is the role for the "traditional" mass transit options in the low carbon future? A question that seems to have fundamentally different questions between countries, seemingly based as much upon political ideology as much as local variables (e.g. population density, previous transport policies etc.).

I found some very interesting documents on the considerations of when to build train systems, and the most appropriate ownership models. Also the issues between when the train tracks are predominantly owned by the passenger transit providers (Europe, Japan etc.) and the haulage providers (the United States).

Vertical railway integration (operators own the tracks they run on) seems to be the most effective model for long-distance operators. The problems with separation were seen in the UK privatization, where the separate track operator ended up being renationalized and there have been calls to renationalize the train operators as well.

Economic effects of Vertical Separation in the railway sector

http://www.cer.be/sites/default/files/publication/Full-Report.pdf (http://www.cer.be/sites/default/files/publication/Full-Report.pdf)

Railway in Sweden and Japan – a comparative study

http://www.trafa.se/globalassets/rapporter/report_2014_12_railway_in_sweden_and_japan_-_a_comparative_study.pdf (http://www.trafa.se/globalassets/rapporter/report_2014_12_railway_in_sweden_and_japan_-_a_comparative_study.pdf)

The Four Big Myths Of UK Rail Privatization

http://actionforrail.wpengine.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Four_Big_Myths_Rail_Privatisation_Report_2015_LR.pdf (http://actionforrail.wpengine.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Four_Big_Myths_Rail_Privatisation_Report_2015_LR.pdf)

The Great Train Robbery

https://www.tuc.org.uk/sites/default/files/tucfiles/The_Great_Train_Robbery_7June2013.pdf (https://www.tuc.org.uk/sites/default/files/tucfiles/The_Great_Train_Robbery_7June2013.pdf)

Trump’s budget proposal slashes funding for Amtrak’s long-distance train routes — but it's not all bad

http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-budget-proposal-amtrak-2017-3 (http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-budget-proposal-amtrak-2017-3)

The Economic Case for Rail Subsidies

https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2013/03/economic-case-rail-subsidies/5007/ (https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2013/03/economic-case-rail-subsidies/5007/)

So are trams really better than buses?

A very well-balanced piece on trams versus buses. Seems to me that very regular electric buses on a properly segregated bus lane will always be better than trams. What am I missing (the city of Toronto where I live is busy putting in trams and 'light-railways')

http://www.citymetric.com/transport/so-are-trams-really-better-buses-2623 (http://www.citymetric.com/transport/so-are-trams-really-better-buses-2623)

Then of course, there is the possibility of self-driving buses with the same capacity as a tram. Assign a dedicated lane, put the sensors on the road and off you go. Well, that's how its supposed to work!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gV79eObat24 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gV79eObat24)





























Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: numerobis on January 28, 2018, 03:40:55 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jan/28/florida-high-speed-train-brightline-project

A new "high-speed" train has been built in Florida. It's pretty tepid high-speed (about 180 km/h) but still, it's something.

Of course, this being the US, they managed to screw up. There's at-grade crossings. That's fundamentally incompatible with high-speed rail. So far they've killed two pedestrians.

Also, it's a diesel train in the sunshine state.
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: TerryM on January 28, 2018, 06:31:02 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jan/28/florida-high-speed-train-brightline-project (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jan/28/florida-high-speed-train-brightline-project)

A new "high-speed" train has been built in Florida. It's pretty tepid high-speed (about 180 km/h) but still, it's something.

Of course, this being the US, they managed to screw up. There's at-grade crossings. That's fundamentally incompatible with high-speed rail. So far they've killed two pedestrians.

Also, it's a diesel train in the sunshine state.


If they pushed it just a bit, they might be able to catch the 1905 record for a steam engine train of 185 kph (115 mph).  :)

http://www.ba-bamail.com/content.aspx?emailid=24989

Terry
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: Sigmetnow on January 29, 2018, 05:06:39 PM
“Why is this train flying above a city in @Amtrak's ad?
That's not how trains work.”
https://mobile.twitter.com/airlineflyer/status/957708657529098241

 ;D
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: Sigmetnow on February 24, 2018, 07:56:46 PM
Germany Considers Free Public Transport to Fight Air Pollution
Quote
In car-obsessed Germany, the government is considering free public transportation in some of its most polluted cities to reduce road traffic and emissions from private vehicles.

"We are considering public transport free of charge in order to reduce the number of private cars," three ministers wrote in a letter to EU environment commissioner Karmenu Vella in Brussels.

"Effectively fighting air pollution without any further unnecessary delays is of the highest priority for Germany," the ministers added.

A trial of the proposal is planned for the cities of Bonn, Essen, Herrenberg, Reutlingen and Mannheim "at the end of the year at the latest."
...
https://www.ecowatch.com/germany-air-pollution-2534823666.amp.html
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: Sigmetnow on February 24, 2018, 07:59:05 PM
Renewable energy to power Eurostar fleet by 2030
Quote
Eurostar is aiming to switch to green energy to power all of its rail services by 2030.

The target was included in a new 10-point environmental plan launched by the operator earlier today (February 7).

The ‘Tread Lightly’ plan states “We will eliminate the use of fossil fuel energy for all of our train journeys across our markets by 2030”.

Eurostar is looking to follow in the footsteps of the Dutch state railway operator NS, which now uses wind energy to power its electric train fleet.

The cross-border operator also wants to see a 5 per cent reduction in train energy by 2020. It plans to do this by installing energy meters on its e320 fleet. ...
https://www.globalrailnews.com/2018/02/07/renewable-energy-to-power-eurostar-fleet-by-2030/
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: jai mitchell on February 28, 2018, 05:40:18 AM
https://zoom.us/recording/play/VDZOI7HNXyZi5hNAMhjEkXgOn2njTQt2Tx4tORlGsjE4500inR57NlM5eSJFR8HZ
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: Sebastian Jones on February 28, 2018, 05:43:46 PM
Thank you Jai Mitchell for posting the link to your presentation. For what it is worth, it was your doggedness in the multiple postings that finally convinced me to open it.  There are so many of us across the world now saying these things- that there is a path forward towards true sustainability and resilience, that we do have viable plans. That alone is encouraging. In addition, as the message you brought gets disseminated over and over again, it starts to become easier and easier to get some traction with policy makers. We are about to engage in a large strategy to connect up climate policies, energy policies and economic policies in Yukon. It is my fervent hope that we get much further this time than in the previous plans and strategies that existed in separate silos.
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: wehappyfew on February 28, 2018, 06:29:07 PM
That's a big cat!

Nice work on the plan from me, too.

Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: Sigmetnow on March 01, 2018, 03:20:13 PM
Building mass transit for the 21st century is challenging, and requires entirely new approaches....

Editorial: To address San Francisco Bay Area traffic, build the BART tube, skip the bridge
https://www.sfchronicle.com/opinion/article/Editorial-To-address-Bay-Area-traffic-build-the-12668394.php

Elon Musk went on a Twitter rant about America's failing infrastructure — and it made his Hyperloop idea sound less crazy
http://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-infrastructure-rant-helps-hyperloop-case-2018-2

Chinese workers build railway station in just nine hours
Seven trains and 23 diggers were used alongside 1,500 people, to complete the huge construction project
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/chinese-workers-productivity-build-nanlong-railway-station-nine-hours-longyan-a8173881.html
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: Sleepy on March 01, 2018, 04:34:33 PM
Solutions that work well in other countries, all seem to be totally impossible in the US.  :-\

I wish we were half as active mitigating, as those Chinese workers were building that station.  :)
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: TerryM on March 01, 2018, 09:29:34 PM
Solutions that work well in other countries, all seem to be totally impossible in the US.  :-\

I wish we were half as active mitigating, as those Chinese workers were building that station.  :)
That clip is amazing!
The workers literally run from position to position.
The planning, coordination and timing beat anything I've ever witnessed by some orders of magnitude.


Terry
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: Sigmetnow on March 05, 2018, 08:34:23 PM
The $13 billion Gateway rail tunnel project under New York City’s Hudson River was rated #1 in importance — until politics got in the way.

Trump Said to Tell Republicans Not to Approve Hudson Rail Tunnel Funds
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-03-03/trump-said-to-tell-gop-not-to-approve-hudson-rail-tunnel-project

Trump disputes funding for $13B Hudson River tunnel project
https://www.constructiondive.com/news/trump-disputes-funding-for-13b-hudson-river-tunnel-project/513938/


Selling hats and flamethrowers to help fund a smaller/faster/cheaper tunnel transportation option looks more attractive every day. ;)  Although the Gateway tunnel serves many local passengers, it is also an Amtrak line.  So, as long as the Boring Company is (potentially) digging tunnels in New York anyway....

Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: Sigmetnow on March 09, 2018, 11:46:52 PM
Cost for California bullet train system rises to $77.3 billion
Quote
The California bullet train project took a sharp jump in price Friday when the state rail authority announced the cost of connecting Los Angeles to San Francisco would total $77.3 billion, an increase of $13 billion from estimates two years ago, and could potentially rise as high as $98.1 billion.
...
The rail authority found that nobody could be sure what was under the ground in Fresno, driving up the cost of relocating sewers, water lines, communications cables and electrical conduits by hundreds of millions of dollars. Freight railroads insisted that the rail authority build barriers that would protect passenger trains from derailments on nearby freight tracks, a requirement that drove up costs by hundreds of millions of dollars, as well. ...
http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-bullet-train-cost-increase-20180309-story.html

Just a note here that Boring Company tunnels would be deep enough underground (~40 feet / 12m) to avoid all those problems.... ;)
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: ghoti on March 10, 2018, 03:12:18 AM
Quote
Cost for California bullet train system rises to $77.3 billion

And that's not the least of it - planned date is 2033! Are you kidding me? 15 years during which cost will grow and delays will accumulate. It isn't even a very high speed train.
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: Sigmetnow on March 10, 2018, 01:45:09 PM
Quote
Cost for California bullet train system rises to $77.3 billion

And that's not the least of it - planned date is 2033! Are you kidding me? 15 years during which cost will grow and delays will accumulate. It isn't even a very high speed train.

Gotta wonder if this announcement was the impetus for Elon Musk’s announcement that the Boring Company projects would now prioritize pedestrians and cyclists over cars....

https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,1094.msg145373.html#msg145373
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: Sigmetnow on March 10, 2018, 02:26:59 PM
If you read a bit further, the Elon Poll continues: ;)
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: Sigmetnow on March 10, 2018, 07:01:04 PM
A tunnel predating World War I is key to 20 percent of the U.S. gross domestic product.

Some facts and figures on the New York Gateway rail tunnel.

How Trump’s Hudson Tunnel Feud Threatens the National Economy
Quote
Economic risks keeping Americans up at night include the hastily rewritten tax code and the possibility of a global trade war set off by U.S. tariffs. Consider another cause for insomnia: President Donald Trump’s opposition to a new rail tunnel linking New York and New Jersey beneath the Hudson River.

The current link is shot, corroded by age and chemical-tainted flood water. That’s unnerving enough for the 820,000 passengers a day traveling to New York City jobs or some other U.S. Northeast destination. For those farther afield, there’s the chilling fact that a tunnel predating World War I is key to 20 percent of the nation’s gross domestic product.

The first locomotive chugged through the Pennsylvania Railroad’s 2.5-mile tunnel in 1910. Amtrak, its current owner, says it’s still safe, albeit unreliable, and in constant need of temporary fixes. But say its haywire electrical system finally goes kaput, or its cracked concrete walls and ceilings yield to the river’s muck. There goes the New York City commute for Wall Streeters, big-city accountants and lawyers from New Jersey suburbs, plus the legions that work in health, tech, tourism and retail. Beyond New York, that’s the end of Boston-to-Washington service on the nation’s busiest passenger-rail route.
...
You say you don’t need trains? The Washington and Boston stations, Amtrak’s second- and sixth-busiest, have a combined 6.7 million riders a year. At least 71 percent say that without Amtrak, they’d fly or drive. Think about it: If that antique Hudson River tunnel is taken out of service before a second one is built, some of the nation’s most trafficked highways and airports will have to accommodate millions more travelers, all of them eager to get somewhere. Just like you.
https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2018-hudson-river-amtrak-tunnel-american-economy/
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: oren on March 10, 2018, 07:47:54 PM
Maybe this should go under the header of empire collapse. Seriously, what was possible in 1910 is somehow difficult in 2018? I guess the future isn't what it used to be.
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: Sigmetnow on March 11, 2018, 03:29:22 PM
"There are a lot of things in this world that can get you down, but life can’t be about solving one miserable problem after another," Musk said. "There has to be things that inspire you, to make you wake up in the morning and be proud of humanity. That’s why we did this. There’s a guy, Konstantin Tsiolkovsky, who said, 'The Earth is the cradle of humanity, but mankind cannot stay in the cradle forever.' It's time to become a starboard civilization and expand our consciousness. I find that incredibly exciting, and I'm excited to be alive."

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/972628124893671432
Falcon Heavy video at the link.
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: Sleepy on March 11, 2018, 06:55:38 PM
Posting this here as well, since it's better suited in this thread.
First the summary from ARTBA:
https://www.artba.org/2018/01/29/54000-american-bridges-structurally-deficient-analysis-new-federal-data-shows/ (https://www.artba.org/2018/01/29/54000-american-bridges-structurally-deficient-analysis-new-federal-data-shows/)

And the following response to Terry, also from the cars thread. Adding this first:
https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/rolling-friction-resistance-d_1303.html (https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/rolling-friction-resistance-d_1303.html)
Railroad steel wheels on steel rails has a 10-15 times lower rolling coefficient than truck tires.


At speed, wheel friction is a neglible force compared to atmospheric drag — and the Tesla semi truck is optimized to reduce that drag, particularly in convoy mode, in ways trains cannot.  (Physically streamlined on all surfaces; ability to vary following distance to achieve lowest drag between trucks; precise battery/energy management.)

Do you have links for this?


IIRC Sleepy had a link that showed fore and aft atmospheric drag to be less than 8%, combined, and that was on a 19 car HSR set. Wouldn't slowing everything down to trucking speeds, then adding a hundred additional cars to make it a rather small modern train, almost eliminate fore/aft drag as a consideration?

The percentages I posted are from an engineer and instructor at SJ.
https://www.sj.se/en/about/about-sj.html (https://www.sj.se/en/about/about-sj.html)

Here are percentages from a Swedish train buff for the air resistance of a typical (rather long...) high-speed train with 14 cars:

4.5% Front
3.5% aft
45% bogie and wheels
8% power take-off
4% air intake
7.5% Bottom
27% Surface friction from sides and ceilings

That is also one of the main reasons for Rodolphe Nieth to design a maglev train in underground vacuum tunnels, back in 1974. And the end of that saga came in 2009.

Percentages does not differ much between HSR and LSR. Total air resistance does with the speed, of course.

I could send him an email and ask for sources if you wish?

There are very good reasons for why the japanese maglev bullet train looks like it does.
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: gerontocrat on March 11, 2018, 07:02:35 PM

The future will be different, but it doesn't matter what or how we build, the hard part will always be the same. Maintaining it.


A very long time ago I was working in a poverty-stricken ex-Portuguese colony. When anything was bust (and a lot was bust) , the response was a shrug and " Falta manutenção".

But it was a wonderful place to work and live.
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: TerryM on March 11, 2018, 11:06:06 PM
Thanks Sleepy.
I had remembered it as 19 cars rather than 14. My bad.


The 10% to 15% figure for the rolling coefficient has to be coupled with the number of wheels making contact with either the road or the track. An 18 wheeler has by definition 18 tires rolling down the highway. A modern lowboy rail car that carries between 2 and 4 trailers has 4 steel wheels.
A rail car with 4 wheels is replacing 2 semis with a minimum of 36 tires, or 9 tires for each steel wheel.
Since each tire requires 10 to 15 times as much energy to roll, it will require between 90 and 135 times more energy just to drag those tires along, unless they stack the trailers on the train. :(


No pedestrians, no red lights, no hot rod kids or little old ladies to avoid. Drop it on a train in Vancouver and offload it at your siding in Montreal.
Terry
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: Sigmetnow on May 02, 2018, 01:23:13 AM
“The one redeeming thing about my morning commute is that the commuter trains in Stockholm are named by the local pre schools. This week I’ve commuted on Best Friend, Glitter, Princess Train, and Wizard Train.”
https://twitter.com/ingebjorgthor/status/990684528724324352

The entire Twitter thread is filled with similar findings. :)
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: Sigmetnow on May 20, 2018, 09:26:13 PM
Horrors!  ;D

Japanese train departs 25 seconds early - again
Quote
A Japanese rail company has apologised after a train left a station 25 seconds early, the second such case in months.
The operator said the "great inconvenience we placed upon our customers was truly inexcusable".
If the details are anything to go by, customers are faced with slipping standards: a train last November left 20 seconds early while this time it was a full 25 seconds premature. ...
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-44149791


I wonder how punctual the next generation of mass transit (Loop, Hyperloop) will be. 
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: Bob Wallace on May 20, 2018, 09:31:38 PM
Computer operated.  Shouldn't be any of that sloppy human 25 second error stuff.
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: Sigmetnow on May 21, 2018, 03:43:05 PM
Computer operated.  Shouldn't be any of that sloppy human 25 second error stuff.

But will a pod, reserved for passengers going to their selected destination, delay its departure to wait for a late arrival?  Or will it take off without them?  What if it knows, by checking their current location via their phone app, how close they are to arriving at the pod?  Will it “care”? 

At least you won’t see people running after a pod they just missed.  ;)
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: Bob Wallace on May 21, 2018, 05:33:35 PM
Computer operated.  Shouldn't be any of that sloppy human 25 second error stuff.

But will a pod, reserved for passengers going to their selected destination, delay its departure to wait for a late arrival?  Or will it take off without them?  What if it knows, by checking their current location via their phone app, how close they are to arriving at the pod?  Will it “care”? 

At least you won’t see people running after a pod they just missed.  ;)

I've never seen a subway train wait for people.  And running after a subway is a bit problematic.

I did manage to hold up a plane for about a half hour once because the person I was traveling with hadn't made it to the plane yet.  But that's not something one could get away with these days.

--

I take that back.  I recently heard about a bride so distraught about her sister (?) missing her wedding that the head cabin crew member and pilot "remembered something that they had to do" and left the plane for a few minutes.  I'm guessing small local plane. 

I held up a big passenger plane.  ;o)
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: Sigmetnow on May 21, 2018, 07:29:59 PM
Exactly!  Perhaps the pod will notify its passengers, “Your missing party will arrive momentarily.  Please remain seated.  Your ride will begin momentarily.  ‘So fun.’  :) “
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: Yuha on May 22, 2018, 10:47:31 AM
I take that back.  I recently heard about a bride so distraught about her sister (?) missing her wedding that the head cabin crew member and pilot "remembered something that they had to do" and left the plane for a few minutes.  I'm guessing small local plane. 

Reminds me of this recent event:

https://yle.fi/uutiset/osasto/news/wednesdays_papers_finns_top_soot_stats_rules_for_ex-ministers_tourist_family_train_switch/10085198 (https://yle.fi/uutiset/osasto/news/wednesdays_papers_finns_top_soot_stats_rules_for_ex-ministers_tourist_family_train_switch/10085198)

Quote
A family of three on a tourist holiday in the north of Finland found themselves in a pickle when they failed to disembark from a Helsinki-Rovaniemi train in time at the station in Kemi, where they had hotel reservations. It was Sunday night, past the bedtime of the family's 5-year-old son, with no guarantee of a place to sleep at the next stop in Tervola. The -21 degree temperature made things seem doubly bleak, until conductor Sakari Puotiniemi stepped in.

"After we left Kemi I did my rounds along the train cars, and encountered this lost family," he says in IL. "I knew another train in the opposite direction would be along soon, so I made a few phone calls."

Puotiniemi says that trains can't usually just be stopped in the middle of the tracks on a whim, but that unusual times call for unusual measures.

The trains screeched to a halt side by side on parallel tracks, and the family galumphed through the knee-deep snow to the train that would deliver them safely to their original destination.
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: Sigmetnow on May 26, 2018, 09:33:27 PM
Perhaps this will help others understand why many Americans don’t view subways as the ultimate gleaming solution enjoyed by many other countries. ;) :o

New York City’s subway disaster now has its own 8-bit video game
https://www.theverge.com/2018/5/26/17389768/new-york-citys-subway-disaster-now-has-its-own-8-bit-video-game
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: Sigmetnow on June 30, 2018, 04:29:00 PM
New Hork City’s Hudson River Tunnel Project Pushes for U.S. Aid After Cutting Cost
•  Trump administration rescinded Obama support for plan
•  Backers say $160 million cut from related bridge project
Quote
The Gateway plan to replace two century-old commuter-train tunnels linking Manhattan and New Jersey should now be re-evaluated for federal aid after organizers cut costs and refined the design.

Supporters delivered that message Friday, saying the U.S. government needs to revisit its initial skepticism. More than $160 million has been cut from a $1.6 billion replacement for the Portal North Bridge over the Hackensack River in New Jersey, which will replace a 108-year-old swing-span drawbridge that closes for maritime traffic. That will improve access to and from the new tunnels under the Hudson River.

The $13 billion cost of the new tunnels secured a commitment from former President Barack Obama that the federal government would share half the costs. That promise was nullified by President Donald Trump’s Department of Transportation last year. Administration officials said the states couldn’t be considered to be sharing half the costs if they were also borrowing money for the project from the federal government, even though the states would repay it.

The current tunnels suffered corrosive damage in 2012 when they were flooded with salt water during Hurricane Sandy, and have an estimated 20 years more of use before they fail, Gateway officials have said.

The consequences of a shutdown without a replacement would be devastating to East Coast rail traffic serving a corridor between Washington and Boston representing about 10 percent of the U.S. economy, said Steven Cohen, chairman of the Gateway Program Development Corp. He said the project will allow more capacity, faster trains and improved reliability.

“These federal loans, they’re designed for this purpose,” Cohen told reporters at a press conference Friday. “This project will move forward because it has to move forward. You can’t be in a position that this tunnel could fail.”
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-06-29/nyc-hudson-tunnel-project-pushes-for-u-s-aid-after-cutting-cost
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: Shared Humanity on June 30, 2018, 05:41:05 PM
As a regular rider of mass transit in Chicago, I would just like to say that the above ground transit trains are a far more pleasant ride than the subways. The passing aerial views are quite pleasant on your travels.
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: Sigmetnow on September 15, 2018, 08:26:25 PM
Bombardier unveils a new battery-powered train
Quote
“We want to continue to electrify rail transport. A train that can charge its batteries from the overhead line while driving is a huge step toward this and the epitome of innovation. On non-electrified or only partially electrified routes, the motto is: move away from diesel on the tracks and toward cleaner and more environmentally-friendly mobility.”

Bombardier says that the train “does not generate any exhaust and sets the standards for smart mobility with peak values of 90 percent in the areas of efficiency and recyclability.”
https://electrek.co/2018/09/14/bombardier-battery-powered-train/
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: Sigmetnow on November 29, 2018, 09:21:22 PM
So... tunnels?

China green-lights first underwater high-speed railway
Quote
The line will connect Ningbo, a port city south of Shanghai, to Zhoushan, an archipelago off the east coast.
The proposed underwater tunnel will be a part of the 77-kilometer Yong-Zhou Railway plan (Yong is the nickname of Ningbo) to boost tourism and create a two-hour-commute zone within Zhejiang Province.
First mentioned in a government transportation plan in 2005, the feasibility study of the Yong-Zhou Railway plan was approved by Beijing in November.
Within the 77 km (47.8 miles) railway route, some 70.92 km of tracks will be newly built, including a 16.2 km undersea section. ...
https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/china-underwater-high-speed-railway/index.html
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: TerryM on December 06, 2018, 10:56:23 AM
sidd had linked to an article about free bus transportation in Dunkirk France. It's proving very popular and I see it as at least part of the solution.


Personally I don't like being in a car that I'm not driving, buses are a different story.
Terry
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: NeilT on December 07, 2018, 03:00:15 PM
A little while ago the press was full of a study which stated that humans would grow longer thumbs in 5,000 years time because of texting.

Let us take a step back away from that incredibly vertical study and think for a second.

Why do we text with out thumbs?  How fast is technology moving?  Is it more or less likely that we will use voice commands for everything within 50 years?

Voice technology may be maturing at a rapid rate, but cranial implant research is in its infancy.  However even in infancy, cranial implants are beginning to make real strides.

In short, the scientist that made the "evolution" prediction of the our thumbs growing in 5,000 years ignored almost every single other datum point around the study.

OK long preamble over.

Now let us apply the logic to Autonomous vehicles.  The stated premise was that autonomous vehicles would be hard to use.  OK so who uses Uber?  I took an Uber, recently, where the driver was both deaf and dumb.  My Uber notification warned me that it might be difficult to communicate with the driver because he had severe communication difficulties.  In fact Technology assured that the driver knew where I was going from and where I was going to before I ever stepped into the vehicle. 

I thought that was a wonderful way to give a job to someone who could never have dreamed of being a cab driver any other way.

So, assuming our Autonomous cab is not the best communicator in the world, let's apply the same technology.

I want to do a journey, I'm alone, I don't have luggage.  I pull out my NotUber app and request my autonomous vehicle to take me from A-B.  The app assesses the journey, the size of vehicle I will need, the amount of power it will need, the power state of the available vehicles close to me and then allocates an autonomous vehicle.

My Cab turns up, it is exactly the size I need, it homes in on my phone and pulls to the kerb but won't open until my phone asks it to open.  No lost cab's there.  My Autonomous cab then takes me from my pick up point to my destination with the minimum fuss and hassle.

This morning I took a flight from Stansted airport.  The flight was at 07:50 and I needed to be there around 1.5 hours before.  Had I needed to take public transport, I would have had to get up at 01:30, take three night busses to Liverpool street station and stand for 20 minutes in the rain at one of the stops, get on a 45 minute train journey which only starts running from Liverpool street station around 04:30.  The night busses run every 30 minutes so the requirement to be extremely early is strong.  Once at Stansted I would then have to hang around for a few hours waiting for my flight.

Instead I walked to my car and left at 04:00, drove for 55 minutes to the parking and then took a 10 minute bus ride to the airport.  I arrived before the three busses and train would have got me there.  I bought a lounge pass and relaxed until my flight.

Had I been able to take an autonomous vehicle, I would have left even later, been dropped right at the terminal building and not had to pay parking for the weekend.

Public transport, as we see it today, is a reflection of the technology and capabilities of the 19th century, upgraded with early 20th century technology.  In the 21st century our technology and choices are different.  Insisting that we all continue to use 19th and 20th century technology in the 21st century just switches people off.  They have their place but they are not compatible with 21st century life in a very large swathe of the population.

Thus the person sending the message is ignored, derided or called a liar.  Hardly the message we want to send for the resolution of climate change.

There is a "scientist" who, in all seriousness, predicted that if everyone drove at 30mph, all the time, everyone would get to their destination faster.

It is 400 miles from London to Edinburgh.  Apparently nobody has the need to do that journey.

Go figure!


Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: magnamentis on December 07, 2018, 03:23:59 PM
  Is it more or less likely that we will use voice commands for everything within 50 years?

Voice technology may be maturing at a rapid rate, but cranial implant research is in its infancy. 

once that will be the case that wherever i go, sit, shop, relax etc. eveyone around me is talking to his device i'll definitely go to a sparely populated island which is something i seriously consider anways. alternative is to live on a boat and if it were not for pirates all over the nice planet earth i'd have opted for boat life already.
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: Sigmetnow on December 26, 2018, 07:19:40 PM
High-speed New trains are finally coming to the US
Quote
One train company has high hopes of bringing high-speed rail travel to America. Brightline Trains, which bills itself as "America's first new major private intercity passenger railroad in over a century," has just gotten a major vote of confidence from Richard Branson's Virgin Group.

The Virgin Group has taken a minority financial stake in Brightline, which will officially rebrand as Virgin Trains USA in January 2019.

Currently, the company has focused on Florida, running high-speed passenger trains between Miami, Fort Lauderdale and West Palm Beach.

In 2019, Virgin Trains USA hopes to launch routes connecting Orlando and Tampa, and then work on an ambitious project to link Los Angeles and Las Vegas via the same high-speed trains.
https://www.cnn.com/travel/amp/virgin-trains-usa/index.html

Quote
Nonsense. @GoBrightline actually has a lower top speed than @LIRR, at just 79 MPH.
Planned extensions will eventually push that up to 125MPH, which merely matches @Amtrak Northeast Regional.
Japan Germany China etc still far superior to us.
https://twitter.com/airlineflyer/status/1077711612952358912
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: Sigmetnow on January 05, 2019, 09:19:53 PM
New York Governor Cuomo Called Tesla for Help With NYC Subway System
The subway signal system has caused delays, service changes, and frustration. Gov. Cuomo is contacting "out-of-the-box" companies like Tesla for help.
http://www.thedrive.com/news/25796/new-york-governor-cuomo-called-tesla-for-help-with-nyc-subway-system
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: rboyd on January 07, 2019, 10:37:57 PM
New York Governor Cuomo Called Tesla for Help With NYC Subway System

Why not just ask for help from one of the countries that has successful subway systems, so many to choose from in Europe, Japan, China, Russia (Moscow), and even Quebec (Montreal)? Mr. Musk seems to be the flavour of the times to fix anything that moves.
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: TerryM on January 07, 2019, 11:18:54 PM
New York Governor Cuomo Called Tesla for Help With NYC Subway System

Why not just ask for help from one of the countries that has successful subway systems, so many to choose from in Europe, Japan, China, Russia (Moscow), and even Quebec (Montreal)? Mr. Musk seems to be the flavour of the times to fix anything that moves.


Some of the fine engineers from Toronto's Metro might even be cajoled into assisting their apparently flummoxed southern brethren, if they could somehow get past the language barrier. Brooklynese is rough on the ear of those conversant in English. 8)


Perhaps Mr. Cuomo wasn't familiar with Elons long and deep support for politicians from the Republican side of the aisle?
Terry
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: sidd on January 08, 2019, 12:18:47 AM
Does anyone know what the "new European" approach is to fixing that tunnel ? (that's just one, there are more)
I know they got to rip out and replace all electric, but i am sure there is structural damage. I been on that line and the walls of the tunnels looks fairly sad to me. They werent anything to write home about even b4 Sandy, but since then i notice marked deterioration.

sidd
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: Sigmetnow on January 08, 2019, 03:45:41 PM
Does anyone know what the "new European" approach is to fixing that tunnel ? (that's just one, there are more)
I know they got to rip out and replace all electric, but i am sure there is structural damage. I been on that line and the walls of the tunnels looks fairly sad to me. They werent anything to write home about even b4 Sandy, but since then i notice marked deterioration.

sidd

I’m sure they discussed Boring Company tunnels.  When the price of an option is tens of millions a mile, rather than the usual $billion+ (in the US), you have to at least consider it.

And who better to talk with about upgrading transportation electronics than a Silicon Valley EV-maker with the most advanced Over-The-Air-connected fleet in the world?
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: Sigmetnow on January 23, 2019, 06:19:57 PM
Australia heat wave:

Train commuters are being warned to expect delays as fears grow the networks will buckle due to the severe heatwave battering the country.
https://www.dresstle.com/2019/01/16/fears-train-tracks-will-buckle-as-scorching-heatwave-strikes/

Sydney commuters will be confronted by mysterious signs while travelling on the train network this week.  “WOLO” is not an acronym, but it means trains are travelling slower due to extreme heat conditions.

Quote
“There’s very little we can do when you’ve got this degree of heat hitting steel tracks (but) at the same time we want to make sure we’ve got the staff on board as quickly as possible to be able to respond.”
https://www.news.com.au/technology/environment/why-youre-seeing-these-signs/news-story/50dfd19fbe1d9d24f3537917fa52ced4
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: Sigmetnow on February 13, 2019, 04:35:15 PM
California Is Abandoning A Plan To Build A High-Speed Train From Los Angeles To San Francisco
February 12, 2019
Quote
LOS ANGELES — California Gov. Gavin Newsom announced Tuesday that he is abandoning a plan to build a high-speed rail from San Francisco to Los Angeles, a project with an estimated cost that has ballooned to more than $77 billion and is years behind schedule.

"The current project, as planned, would cost too much and respectfully take too long," Newsom said during his first State of the State address. "There’s been too little oversight and not enough transparency."

The project was long championed by Newsom's predecessor Gov. Jerry Brown, but had lost support among voters, who approved $9.95 billion in bonds for the train in 2008, as the cost of the project skyrocketed.

Newsom said while he doesn't currently see a path forward to complete the entire project, he wants to finish ongoing construction in the Central Valley. ...
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/amphtml/skbaer/california-bullet-train-plan-abandon-newsom-rail

Still a chance for a hyperloop, then? ;)
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: rboyd on February 15, 2019, 06:38:21 AM
High Speed Trains are an expensive waste of time when they don't even have a standard train network. Also, from what I have read it seems that the US is the most expensive place to build such infrastructure, even the Europeans are a lot cheaper.
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: Sigmetnow on February 24, 2019, 08:28:05 PM
Washington, D.C.'s Metro subway system

DC could subsidize Lyft and Uber rides when subway is closed at night
https://www.thecarconnection.com/news/1121522_dc-could-subsidize-lyft-uber-rides-when-subway-is-closed-at-night
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: Sigmetnow on February 24, 2019, 09:02:41 PM
Ride safety can be a consideration when choosing what form of transportation you will use.

Quote
Lyft (@lyft) 2/23/19, 9:46 PM
Reports of anti-LGBTQ violence in Portland, OR have left many in our community feeling unsafe. If you’re in Portland and need help getting home safely, DM @lyft and we’ll respond soon with a $15 ride credit.
https://twitter.com/lyft/status/1099500810843484161
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: Sigmetnow on May 12, 2019, 08:39:58 PM
Excercise and transportation.

Vala Afshar (@ValaAfshar)5/11/19, 4:06 PM
30 squats in Russia gets you a free train ticket
https://twitter.com/valaafshar/status/1127303895666102272
(30-second video at the link.)
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: Sigmetnow on June 10, 2019, 05:34:19 PM
Philadelphia introduces 25 new electric buses, claims largest zero-emissions fleet on U.S. East Coast
Quote
...between the 25 new e-buses and 38 trackless trolleys, SEPTA now has the largest zero-emission bus fleet on the East Coast. Some may not be willing to count those trolleys, but even a bus fleet with 25 electric buses ranks at or near the top of East Count cities in that regard.

That title may not last long, however. New York City only has 10 electric buses in its fleet as of April, but the country’s largest city has said it will add 65 more electric buses before the end of the year, and 500 more within the next five years.
https://electrek.co/2019/06/06/philadelphia-electric-buses-east-coast/
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: Sigmetnow on June 12, 2019, 09:35:50 PM
The main topic of the concept is modular architecture, which enables use of the platform 24/7 with various modules - for example as a bus during the day and as a truck during night.
   •   8m long
   •   162 kWh battery pack under the floor, cylindrical cells
   •   range of 245 km (152 miles)
   •   the bus version can take 55 passengers (20 seats)
   •   weight of 8 ton

Electric, Autonomous And Modular Scania NXT Unveiled
Quote
Scania NXT hints the future of electric buses and trucks beyond 2030

Scania presents at the UITP Global Public Transport Summit in Stockholm (10-12 June) all-new all-electric concept - the Scania NXT, which is envisioned as fully autonomous vehicle for 2030 and beyond.

"Welcome to the NXT future! Scania’s new battery electric self-driving urban concept vehicle is designed with the flexibility to shift from ferrying commuters to and from work in mornings and evenings, delivering goods during the day and collecting refuse at night.

In a bold display of innovation, Scania’s engineers have taken the company’s DNA – the modular system – to the next level in developing a concept vehicle that can change shape for varying urban assignments." ...
https://insideevs.com/news/354248/electric-autonomous-modular-scania-nxt/amp/
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: vox_mundi on June 14, 2019, 08:16:42 PM
German railways to stop using glyphosate on tracks
https://phys.org/news/2019-06-german-railways-glyphosate-tracks.html

German state-owned rail operator Deutsche Bahn is to stop using glyphosate (RoundUp) on its tracks and is looking for substitutes to replace the controversial weedkiller, one of its board members said in an interview Friday.

The rail operator is Germany's largest user of glyphosate and buys nearly 65 tonnes of the herbicide per year to stop weeds from propagating on its tracks.

"We want to set up a research project to find effective ways to operate our 33,000 kilometres (20,500 miles) of network without glyphosate to be environmentally friendly," infrastructure chief Ronald Pofalla told the weekly business magazine WirtschaftsWoche.

The World Health Organization classifies glyphosate as "probably carcinogenic".
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: b_lumenkraft on June 14, 2019, 08:24:39 PM
This is funny. One would think the train kills the weed...

Good move DB.
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: etienne on June 22, 2019, 05:56:16 PM
Just look at the price. I don't travel 1st Class, but in school, m son has to present a trip to any city, showing costs, lodging and possible activities. So I found this. It is for 4 peoples.

It is a trip via Paris. Via Brussels is cheaper (somewhere between 1500 EUR and 2000 EUR) because only half of the way is done with a high speed train and it takes about 1 hour more. The problem via Brussels is that the train from Luxembourg used to be (don't know how it is now) often late, so you were not sure that you got the Eurostar in Brussels (I did it 9/11/2001, and when I came out in Brussels, I wondered why the guy at the desk told me insane stories about planes crashing in the Twin Towers, I was in the tunnel when it happened).
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: Bob Wallace on June 22, 2019, 06:09:44 PM
This is funny. One would think the train kills the weed...

Good move DB.

We need to return to steam engines.  The waste steam could be used to cook the weeds.

Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: b_lumenkraft on June 22, 2019, 06:57:33 PM
Consider it done, Bob! ;)
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: Archimid on June 25, 2019, 03:41:00 AM
The World's First Solar Powered Train

https://youtu.be/6Y4QGFte3T8
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: etienne on July 30, 2019, 11:11:40 PM
Quite frustrating, I just booked a trip by train to London in September. Plane would have been more or less half the price. From the traveling time, it's not a big difference (around 7h by train, little bit more than 1h by plane, but airports are more difficult to reach and you need to be much earlier at the airport than at the train station. I hope there is WIFI in the Eurostar otherwise the kids will not be too happy.
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: DrTskoul on July 31, 2019, 12:29:10 AM
The World's First Solar Powered Train

https://youtu.be/6Y4QGFte3T8

Why?? We already have electric trains...
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: Sebastian Jones on July 31, 2019, 07:47:37 AM
German railways to stop using glyphosate on tracks
https://phys.org/news/2019-06-german-railways-glyphosate-tracks.html

German state-owned rail operator Deutsche Bahn is to stop using glyphosate (RoundUp) on its tracks and is looking for substitutes to replace the controversial weedkiller, one of its board members said in an interview Friday.

The rail operator is Germany's largest user of glyphosate and buys nearly 65 tonnes of the herbicide per year to stop weeds from propagating on its tracks.

Interesting how different jurisdictions approach weeds on rail tracks.
There is a railway that goes from Alaska through B.C. in the Yukon.
It decided to spray various poisons on its rights of way to kill weeds.
Alaska simply said it was not allowed. Period.
The Yukon had a big environmental assessment that concluded it was a bad idea.
B.C. had no rules, no permits needed.

"We want to set up a research project to find effective ways to operate our 33,000 kilometres (20,500 miles) of network without glyphosate to be environmentally friendly," infrastructure chief Ronald Pofalla told the weekly business magazine WirtschaftsWoche.

The World Health Organization classifies glyphosate as "probably carcinogenic".
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: oren on July 31, 2019, 01:46:42 PM
Quite frustrating, I just booked a trip by train to London in September. Plane would have been more or less half the price. From the traveling time, it's not a big difference (around 7h by train, little bit more than 1h by plane, but airports are more difficult to reach and you need to be much earlier at the airport than at the train station. I hope there is WIFI in the Eurostar otherwise the kids will not be too happy.
My wife's brother lives in northwestern Germany and flies all over the world for business. Recently he has been quite affected by Greta, and I used this to suggest to him to take the train rather than fly when he travels to London, which happens from time to time. He was quite receptive to the idea, and it turns out travel time is roughly the same door to door, however the train price is something like double. In order to get the same price, he has to order the train ticket 60 or 90 days in advance, which he can't do as his business is quite hectic. I guess some economist at the rail company thought this scheme up for solid financial reasons, but it's quite frustrating in the context of AGW, as last-minute plane tickets are always more competitive than the train.
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: TerryM on July 31, 2019, 06:44:42 PM
The World's First Solar Powered Train

https://youtu.be/6Y4QGFte3T8 (https://youtu.be/6Y4QGFte3T8)

Why?? We already have electric trains...


I've no doubt that the above is the first solar train, but a wind powered light rail system has been running in Alberta (of all places) for a few years.


No link but I believe it carries commuters about in Edmonton.
Terry
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: blumenkraft on July 31, 2019, 07:00:05 PM
The World's First Solar Powered Train
Why?? We already have electric trains...

Are you serious?

If so, don't you think you could save CO2 by not having the need to build an infrastructure to provide the train with power? Do you know there are efficiency gains by not having the need to transport power over a distance?

When every train would be solar-powered (which is obviously possible, as shown in the video), this would be a huge efficiency gain and therefore less CO2 emissions. How is this not a good thing?
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: etienne on July 31, 2019, 07:01:24 PM
Quite frustrating, I just booked a trip by train to London in September. Plane would have been more or less half the price. From the traveling time, it's not a big difference (around 7h by train, little bit more than 1h by plane, but airports are more difficult to reach and you need to be much earlier at the airport than at the train station. I hope there is WIFI in the Eurostar otherwise the kids will not be too happy.
My wife's brother lives in northwestern Germany and flies all over the world for business. Recently he has been quite affected by Greta, and I used this to suggest to him to take the train rather than fly when he travels to London, which happens from time to time. He was quite receptive to the idea, and it turns out travel time is roughly the same door to door, however the train price is something like double. In order to get the same price, he has to order the train ticket 60 or 90 days in advance, which he can't do as his business is quite hectic. I guess some economist at the rail company thought this scheme up for solid financial reasons, but it's quite frustrating in the context of AGW, as last-minute plane tickets are always more competitive than the train.
Well, I ordered the tikets about 45 days in advance. Even for non business reason, a small city trip, this is quite a lot in advance. 15 days ago, the school year was not over and only the main part of the holidays was booked. The only reason why we go now to London is the Brexit. A no deal could make future travels more complicated.
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: Sigmetnow on August 13, 2019, 03:34:49 AM
 :o

Japanese Railway Monorail Track Changing Mechanism | Japanese Railroads | Osaka Monorail | JR pass-1 - YouTube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ua3gU4BLaj4


大阪モノレール 万博記念公園駅 分岐器 - YouTube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYFIeKCUDdk
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: Tom_Mazanec on August 23, 2019, 02:54:53 AM
EUROPE REVIVES NIGHT TRAINS — TO FIGHT CLIMATE CHANGE
https://www.ozy.com/fast-forward/europe-revives-night-trains-to-fight-climate-change/95904
Quote
Arnaud Wieclawski wanted to visit his girlfriend in Italy last year. But the Belgian faced a problem: There was no real alternative to a plane ride, which the ecologically minded Wieclawski wanted to avoid because of the carbon footprint of flying. So he turned his dilemma — a choice between love and the climate — into activism. He co-founded Back on Track Belgium, a collective arguing for the reintroduction of a transportation solution that Europe has turned its back on: night trains.
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: rboyd on August 23, 2019, 04:04:27 AM
The World's First Solar Powered Train
Why?? We already have electric trains...

Are you serious?

If so, don't you think you could save CO2 by not having the need to build an infrastructure to provide the train with power? Do you know there are efficiency gains by not having the need to transport power over a distance?

When every train would be solar-powered (which is obviously possible, as shown in the video), this would be a huge efficiency gain and therefore less CO2 emissions. How is this not a good thing?

I watched the video, some interesting points:
- The 6.5 KW of solar panels on the train is enough only to trickle charge
- The 30KW of panels on the station is what really charges the train (done twice a day to charge the batteries)
- The track is only 3km long, and its pretty flat!
- As stated in the video, the location has nearly perfect weather conditions for solar power

- The actual narrator accepts that it would make sense for most (nearly all?) operators to run a third rail and get energy from the grid.

This is like claiming we will soon be flying in planes running on solar panels because of those experimental ultra-light one man planes that have done so.
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: TerryM on August 23, 2019, 11:57:06 PM
Electrical trains & trolleys have been around longer than the grid. ;)
Transporting electricity by way of 3d rail or overhead catenary is much more efficient than charging, transporting and discharging (heavy) batteries.
PV is a fair weather friend. Rather than vertically integrating railroads so they provide their own (solar) power, why not GreenWrap them by having them purchase only solar, wind or renewable power?
Terry

Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: nanning on August 24, 2019, 04:55:11 AM
In the Netherlands all the electric trains already run on sustainable electricity since 2017:
https://www.ns.nl/en/about-ns/sustainability/energy
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: TerryM on August 24, 2019, 05:10:59 AM
In the Netherlands all the electric trains already run on sustainable electricity since 2017:
https://www.ns.nl/en/about-ns/sustainability/energy (https://www.ns.nl/en/about-ns/sustainability/energy)


That's something that could should be emulated.
Free E-bus, heavily subsidized E-Trains & inexpensive HSRail.


All powered with clean electricity.
Terry
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: nanning on August 24, 2019, 08:07:16 AM
   Rail line in Hampshire is world's first to be powered by solar farm

Pilot scheme on Network Rail’s Wessex route could pave way for direct powering of trains


Great initiative I think. Especially effective in sunny countries.
I wonder what they'll do when it snows. Battery backup? Use the grid?

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/aug/22/rail-line-in-hampshire-is-worlds-first-to-be-powered-by-solar-farm


Quotes:
Leo Murray, the director of Riding Sunbeams, said future projects across the UK could be community-owned, and pay back benefits to local community funds. By the end of 2020, Riding Sunbeams hopes to build and connect the world’s first-ever full-scale community- and commuter-owned solar farm to UK railways.

Murray said the railways will be able to cut their running costs and benefit local communities while playing a part in tackling the climate crisis. “Matchmaking the UK’s biggest electricity user, the railways, with the nation’s favourite energy source, solar power, looks like the start of the perfect relationship.”


Murray added that the same model could be used across the world, particularly in sunny countries in South America, and India.

India is already home to 250 trains powered by solar panels attached directly to the roof of the train, but it plans to develop its own trackside solar farms because the weight of the panels means their trains need more energy than usual.

Indian Railways, the country’s single largest energy consumer, said last month it hoped to become the world’s first 100% “green” railway network in 10 years’ time by installing 30GW of solar generation capacity on some of its 51,000 hectares of vacant land.


edit:added bottom bolding
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: kassy on August 27, 2019, 12:30:14 PM
New rider data shows how public transit reduces greenhouse gas and pollutant emissions

So, with that data, the researchers could quantify the emissions produced and miles traveled of the transit systems (TRAX light rail uses electricity produced outside the Wasatch Front, hence the emissions aren't in Salt Lake's air) and balance that with the miles traveled by passengers and the estimated amount of car travel avoided by riding transit.

On weekdays during rush hours, and in densely populated areas, the balance was clearly on the side of reduced emissions. "That tapers off significantly during the evening hours, on the outskirts of the city, and definitely during the weekends," Mendoza says. In those situations, the number of passengers and how far they rode transit did not offset certain criteria pollutant emissions. (Criteria pollutants are six common air pollutants that the EPA sets standards for through the Clean Air Act.)

For transit to improve its regional reduction in emissions, particularly PM2.5 and NOx, the following strategies, alone or in combination, could be employed: more daily riders per trip, more clean-fuel buses and train cars and/or fewer low-ridership trips

...

The current study looks at the bus and train fleet as they are now, with some UTA buses around 20 years old and FrontRunner trains whose engines are rated a Tier 0+ on a 0-4 scale of how clean a locomotive's emissions are (Tier 4 is the cleanest; UTA is scheduled to receive funds programmed through the Metropolitan Planning Organizations to upgrade FrontRunner locomotives to Tier 2+). So, Mendoza and his colleagues envisioned the future.

"What if we upgrade all these buses, some of them from 1996 or so?" Mendoza says. "They emit a significantly larger amount than the newer buses, which are 2013 and newer."

What if, they asked, UTA upgraded their buses to only 2010 models and newer, fueled by either natural gas or clean diesel? And what if the FrontRunner engines were upgraded to Tier 3?

Emissions of some pollutants would drop by 50%, and some by up to 75%, they found.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/08/190826143407.htm
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: Sigmetnow on August 27, 2019, 02:08:23 PM
Quote
New rider data shows how public transit reduces greenhouse gas and pollutant emissions

Worthwhile study.  But any “upgrades” to busses should include electric vehicles, over natgas or ‘clean diesel.’
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: TerryM on August 27, 2019, 04:08:45 PM
Ahreed Sig. E-Buses & E-Trains/Trams need to be examined. Also Salt Lake City is far from a typical NA City.  Huge % of practicing Mormons whose lifestyle is almost uniquely different.


It's a start
Terry
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: Sigmetnow on August 28, 2019, 02:51:09 PM
U.S.: Phoenix, Arizona
Quote
Alissa Walker (@awalkerinLA)8/27/19, 11:51 PM
Phoenix just said yes to the future. For those following the Koch-backed ballot measure to kill light rail in the city, Prop 105 is going down in flames

        Proposition 105: Phoenix voters on track to continue light rail extensions
        https://amp.azcentral.com/amp/2088650001
https://twitter.com/awalkerinla/status/1166559011359133696
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: TerryM on August 29, 2019, 05:00:55 AM
^^
Perhaps without MCcain Republican influence in Arizona will wane? :)


Light Rail in Phoenix is a big step forward.
Terry

Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: Tom_Mazanec on September 24, 2019, 08:25:07 PM
Deutsche Bahn sees big windfall from climate change package
https://www.todayonline.com/world/deutsche-bahn-sees-big-windfall-climate-change-package
Quote
Germany's Deutsche Bahn [DBN.UL] expects the government's 50 billion euro climate change package to generate the railway company's biggest growth spurt in its 180-year history, the state-owned firm's boss said on Sunday.

In a telephone press conference, Richard Lutz said the measures announced on Friday, including a cut in value-added tax (VAT) on train tickets, would give it an additional 20 billion euros in revenue by 2030.

Although the package, in response to growing public concern about the impact of climate change, disappointed climate activists, individual measures such as surcharges on domestic flights and the VAT cut are expected to have an impact on the companies concerned.
Read more at https://www.todayonline.com/world/deutsche-bahn-sees-big-windfall-climate-change-package
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: Sigmetnow on September 30, 2019, 05:35:00 PM
Why are roads and tracks the width they are today?  Because history.
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1177631604186996737.html
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: sesyf on September 30, 2019, 09:45:06 PM
Weeellll... there are other opinions or discussins on the matter

https://www.truthorfiction.com/railwidth/

In Britain there were several rail gauges in use so it would be interesting to have some more rigorous information why this specific gauge was selected.

I intended to add something about british gauges but my browser has a hiccup so perhaps later if more discussion is warranted...
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: Sigmetnow on September 30, 2019, 09:52:04 PM
Feel free to add more information if you wish.  I took the original post to be conversational in nature, not a definitive answer. :)
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: gerontocrat on September 30, 2019, 11:19:55 PM
Weeellll... there are other opinions or discussins on the matter

https://www.truthorfiction.com/railwidth/

In Britain there were several rail gauges in use so it would be interesting to have some more rigorous information why this specific gauge was selected.

I intended to add something about british gauges but my browser has a hiccup so perhaps later if more discussion is warranted...
I think Wikipedia has got it nailed down  - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard-gauge_railway
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: Sigmetnow on February 14, 2020, 01:31:35 AM
Alstom to acquire Bombardier's Rail Business for USD 7.6 billion
Quote
The acquisition of Bombardier’s rail business by Alstom would mark the latest attempt by some of the world’s biggest train makers to counter growing competition from China. Earlier in 2017, Bombardier held talks to combine its rail operations with its competitor Siemens AG but Siemens AG suddenly opted to pursue a deal with Alstom, which was ultimately failed later.

On another side, European planemaker Airbus has also reached a deal to buy the remaining stake of Bombardier in the A220 passenger jet program.

The deal signals Bombardier’s exit from commercial aviation by transferring its remaining interest in Airbus Canada to the main parent Airbus SE company and the government of the Canadian state of Quebec”, reported Reuters.
https://www.urbantransportnews.com/alstom-to-acquire-bombardiers-rail-business-for-usd-7-6-billion/
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: rboyd on February 17, 2020, 08:47:40 PM
So another strategic Canadian industry sold off and now controlled by a French company. The usual Canadian story, including the US using dirty tricks (to block Bombardiers jets from competing with Boeing, ending up in Airbus taking over that business).

Canadian business can go back to digging up stuff, cutting stuff down, and food production for export. Then building houses etc. for the extra million immigrants every few years. If the nation had built the public transport infrastructure necessary for all the extra millions maybe Bombardier would have been more viable - although there certainly was some incompetence in their management of the transport division.
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: TerryM on February 17, 2020, 10:37:48 PM
^^
Sad
Terry
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: philopek on February 17, 2020, 11:37:00 PM

Canadian business can go back to digging up stuff, cutting stuff down, and food production for export. Then building houses etc. for the extra million immigrants every few years. If the nation had built the public transport infrastructure necessary for all the extra millions maybe Bombardier would have been more viable - although there certainly was some incompetence in their management of the transport division.

I've seen and used many good products by Bombardie, their rotax engines were in my float plane, skidoo asn seadoo and delivered well.

That said and as it happens their trains are of mediocre quality, one could say"crap"even.

the Swiss who themselves have great own train manufacturers like "Stadler Rail" are complaining for years and many jokes circulate about those trains by Bombardier that were purchased for their lower pricing (that was more expensive at the end) and most probably some people were bribed. Their surname ist "Schüttel-Zug" means shaking train and of course that's only one of the most prominent flaws.

But as i said beforehand, many of their products are top-notch and delivered good services to me over a wide range of use cases.
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: sidd on February 18, 2020, 07:36:43 AM
More cities consider free public transport:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/cities-weigh-free-public-transit-amid-rising-costs/ar-BB104Nz1

sidd


Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: NeilT on February 18, 2020, 11:51:34 AM
So another strategic Canadian industry sold off and now controlled by a French company.

An inevitable  consequence  of CETA.  France and Germany have been doing this in the UK for decades because of our non protective model.

The French incursion into our services by heavily nationalised industries has been heavily criticised.
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: TerryM on February 19, 2020, 12:07:24 AM
More cities consider free public transport:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/cities-weigh-free-public-transit-amid-rising-costs/ar-BB104Nz1 (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/cities-weigh-free-public-transit-amid-rising-costs/ar-BB104Nz1)

sidd


Free local transportation may be a necessary first step to ending the West's love affair with the automobile.


The link mentions the huge acceptance of free local transportation in Dunkirk France, but attributes it in part to existing infrastructure. The advantage of free bus service is that the increased ridership encourages increased spending for additional buses and routes even as the costs of providing infrastructure to handle private vehicles usage is reduced.


It's good to hear that some North American cities are at least open to the idea.
Terry
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: Sigmetnow on February 27, 2020, 04:59:43 PM
California

Long Beach Transit Adds 14 More BYD Electric Buses
Quote
While BYD is a Chinese company, these buses are built in California with the majority of the components in the vehicle coming from the US. In fact, more than 70% of the contents of the vehicle come from the US, qualifying the vehicles for the Federal Transit Administration’s “Buy America” program.
...
Los Angeles just went all in on electric buses with a massive new order for 130 BYD K7M buses. That is simply staggering and speaks to the quality of the buses and the eagerness of some progressive transit authorities to convert their fleets to lower cost, zero tailpipe emission electric buses.
https://cleantechnica.com/2020/02/26/long-beach-transit-adds-14-more-byd-electric-buses/
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: TerryM on February 27, 2020, 06:40:19 PM
^^
Ramen!!


Toronto has been adding to their electrified bus fleet and Kitchener/Waterloo's new light rail/trolley lines are proving popular.
Terry
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: Sigmetnow on March 03, 2020, 07:53:23 PM
U.S.

William J. Flynn, 66, will succeed Richard Anderson, 65, as Amtrak’s chief executive on April 15, the company announced on Monday. Mr. Flynn is the chairman and former chief executive of Atlas Air Worldwide Holdings, which operates cargo airlines and other airfreight businesses.

Amtrak, Struggling to Keep Trains Running, Chooses a New Leader
Quote
Mr. Flynn would be the third veteran executive from the transportation industry to run Amtrak in the last three years. He would step in as Amtrak’s finances have been improving but its political fortunes remain turbulent.

The change will come as Amtrak struggles to keep trains running through the New York region on tracks, bridges and in tunnels that are in desperate need of repair and upgrades. Amtrak owns Pennsylvania Station in Manhattan and the tunnels connected to it that cross under the Hudson River. That pair of single-track tunnels poses one of the greatest threats to Amtrak’s service and to transit in the metropolitan area and throughout the Northeast. Built in the early years of the 20th century, the tunnels had already exceeded their expected life span when Hurricane Sandy flooded them with salt water in 2012.

That deluge accelerated their deterioration, leading to more urgent demands from Amtrak officials for federal funding of a new pair of tunnels. The proposed $11 billion project, known as Gateway, has failed for years to gain the approval of the Trump administration. ...
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/02/nyregion/amtrak-ceo-william-flynn.html
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: TerryM on March 03, 2020, 09:48:17 PM
If the government refuses to invest in passenger rail services, changing the name on the door of the feckless leader won't help.


We spend on everything from bike lanes to belt loops and 4 level overpasses, but expect passenger rail to be self funding.


Until someone in power decides that spending on mass transportation is a necessity we can expect what's left of the existing infrastructure to crumble.


...........
In the 1930's Ford, GM, Standard Oil, and Firestone set out to do battle with municipal streetcar companies.
They won - at a terrible cost to the environment, frayed nerves, and to the shaded parks that became crowded parking lots.


Today I followed a 4 car trolley into Kitchener & watched as passengers got on and off as we made our way across the city. It was quiet, made good time, and the streets were free of congestion. Most of the passengers were engaged in conversation while some seemed absorbed in reading a book or engaging with their cell phone. No honking, racing engines, or traffic jams were evident, even during the 4 O'clock rush hour. This was the first time that there was excess parking near my doctors office. The light rail system is (finally) being widely used.


We need to rejoin the battle that our grandparents lost.
Terry
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: nanning on March 04, 2020, 07:24:20 AM
Very interesting history information and view Terry. How fast the context is forgotten. Thank you.
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: Sigmetnow on March 07, 2020, 09:53:35 PM
U.S.
Amtrak cancels nonstop Acela (“high-speed”) train service between Washington DC and New York City due to coronavirus
Quote
The Acela nonstop service will be temporarily suspended starting Tuesday, March 10 until Tuesday, May 26.
Amtrak said it would remove train cars or cancel trains altogether when other alternatives are available for customers. The company cited reduced demand for train service. ...
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/07/amtrak-cancels-nonstop-acela-service-between-dc-nyc-due-to-coronavirus.html

Large-vehicle public transport does present a higher risk of communicable disease transmission than small-vehicle private transportation. 
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: Sigmetnow on June 17, 2020, 05:26:19 PM
U.S. passenger rail service
Amtrak is ending daily service to hundreds of stations. Blame the coronavirus pandemic, the railroad says
Quote
While the company’s plan to slash long-distance daily service was not a surprise, some rail advocates said Amtrak is wrong to reduce daily service to communities across the country where the train is the only transportation option. Besides, they said, those routes saw the smallest declines in ridership during the pandemic. According to Amtrak, demand for its long-distance service is down by 70 percent.

“Let’s be clear: this is penny-wise and pound-foolish,” Jim Mathews, president and chief executive of the Rail Passengers Association, said in a statement. “The long-distance services declined the least among Amtrak’s three business lines during the coronavirus-induced slowdown, and its services remain essential to the hundreds of small communities across the United States with fewer options than Philadelphia or Boston or New York City.”

Mathews estimates that as many as 461 stations outside the Northeast Corridor will lose daily service. He said Amtrak could be “setting itself up for failure by losing operating slots on host railroads, losing employees it will need to restore service and possibly losing the rolling stock as well.”
...
Amtrak said last month that it needs nearly $1.5 billion in supplemental funding from the federal government to maintain “minimum service levels,” anticipating ridership will not recover to pre-pandemic levels in fiscal 2021. Even with the supplemental funding, the company said, it would need to cut service and personnel to stay afloat.

Amtrak estimates that ridership in the next fiscal year may drop to 16 million, or roughly 50 percent of pre-pandemic levels.

Ridership was down 95 percent during the height of the pandemic, and the Northeast Corridor, which had several coronavirus hot spots, was hit especially hard. Even as states begin to reopen, ridership remains down 90 percent. ...
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/amtrak-is-ending-daily-service-to-hundreds-of-stations-blame-the-coronavirus-pandemic-the-railroad-says/ar-BB15zVal
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: Bruce Steele on June 20, 2020, 10:07:42 PM
Amtrack not accepting cash.
My sister , whose carbon footprint is far smaller than any other human I know , has to travel by public transportation. She has no credit , credit card, I-phone or PayPal or drivers license . She now is forced to use metrolink because amtrack will not take her cash. Metro link connections mean she is forced to “ camp out “ overnight in places most of us wouldn’t walk at night because there are no other options for her to travel from the desert into the city.
 I like a little adventure in my travels but Poverty in this country is getting even harder than just traveling second class.
 If you happen to have mental issues the cops aren’t usually help , and you are likely poor and somehow need to navigate the world when cash isn’t accepted ? She stays here when winter sets in and spends summers in the Sierra.
 I am going to raise some stink with Amtrack but public transport in large parts of this country does not exist. Amtrack seems perpetually to have financial problems. My wife uses Amtrack and Uber makes connections easier but modern technology seems to distance the underprivileged . Credit cards and
I-phones are exclusionary to part of our population.

https://week.com/2020/03/27/amtrak-stops-taking-cash-amid-covid-19-outbreak/

Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: nanning on June 21, 2020, 05:17:09 AM
I feel for your sister Bruce. My advice is: Move out of the U.S.A., leave, now you still can, to a better society. I moved out of the big city to a village. That was very expensive for me but I am glad my mother could lend me some money. It felt like fleeing and I am now in a much better society/municipality.
I don't know if moving is possible for your sister because of costs/passport etc.
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: Bruce Steele on June 21, 2020, 07:34:51 AM
Off topic but there are no or very few pay phones anymore. Again you have to pay for technology or fall farther into incommunicado. Snail mail still works but considering the trend I wonder how long until the post offices disappear ?
 Nanning, If you have money you can leave but I don’t think it is an option for the very poor. 
Homelessness is a problem for society , no pay phones, no showers, or now no cash trains. The boot on the neck is systemic. 
 
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: Sigmetnow on June 21, 2020, 03:18:32 PM
Bruce, I’m sure you have thought of this, but will a debit card work?  Many banks will issue a card that will allow businesses to access your account electronically, and keeping even a small balance is acceptable.  Some even work like a credit card if swiped that way.
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: blumenkraft on June 21, 2020, 03:44:58 PM
Amtrack not accepting cash.


What a sneaky way to survive people's movements... Sons of mothers!
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: Bruce Steele on June 21, 2020, 04:22:06 PM
Sigmetnow, This train situation is a new development and yes a debit card can fix it , I will help get her a card. There are some services in every county and there are people like Willi who help those at the very bottom . I know without someone as an advocate life is very hard indeed. I have access to her bank account and can deposit for her but you can’t believe how many times she has been rolled for what little she has.
 The lack of pay phones that limit communication, the lack of showers and public restrooms , and the use of electronic money make life harder.  I can try to help but there are thousands with no advocate. We all need to chip in a little with some actual connections to other humans outside our economic strata . We build the walls collectively .
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: Pmt111500 on July 25, 2020, 07:00:44 AM
Elsewhere HapHazard stated:
I'm somewhere between interstitial & Rod, with a bias towards interstitial.

And honestly I think we should just start talking about trains.
I think there was a thread where trains were sort of focal point but now I'm too lazy to find out what it was called. (Kassy found it, thank you. I'm still wondering what 'buses' are doing in the thread's headline, if they're powered by overhead electric then maybe.))

I think this policy and solutions-section would be a place to talk about new train tech, advancements in routing efficiency, well planned yards to onload and offload cargo (we need to admit every property can't have a railroad beside it), optimal speeds of cargo/passenger shared lines, signalling, PTC, and how companies can compete in a network that is not controlled by shared authority (which is common in Europe). On the passenger rail, there could be some talk on how to diminish the empty seats and possibly about some new methods of coupling carriages to quickly (and quietly) add and remove them, so the stops on stations wouldn't be so short you can just get one suitcase out in the time allotted for a stop. This probably means carriages should have small multiple-unit type motors for shunting, could this be automated? When it is necessary to build rail to rail overpasses, any news on rail bridge/tunnel tech?.... U

a link to my blog, a very poorly constrained study on US passenger rail, attempting to get it to the European level of service (it's obvious this is a bit utopian, but less than some hyperloop-stuff): http://erimaassa.blogspot.com/2012/07/trafficking.html?m=1

(Umm, won't fix the overtly verbose opening)

Anyway, here's my image of European-level passenger rail network for US , thicker lines, golden bits would be totally new rail and most of the others would need an upgrade...
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: Pmt111500 on July 25, 2020, 07:52:25 AM
Later did an even more utopistic plan to get finnish passenger rail to the level of Switzerland... The resulting image presented, this network and associated multiple unit passenger/car carriages could serve c. 90% of Finns so well they'd need to drive a car for only local (under 50 km) trips. Parts of Lapland are still without service, connections to Atlantic ports are hard to build over Scandinavian mountains. Umm, this is not especially interesting to non-finns, so may delete this post later. If someone is interested, pm, way more details available (station locations, unserved communal centers, distances to served stations, estimate of the amount of additional track to build. No budget of course :-D)
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: kassy on July 25, 2020, 08:25:55 AM
Merged threads since being too lazy is not a proper criterium for creating a new thread.
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: zizek on July 29, 2020, 01:20:38 PM
Well.
I would consider that a win for the pro Tesla camp.
I will quite happily present actual scientific study's and real world verifiable data to back my opinion As will the rest of you.
Don't expect zizek to pay up .
They never do .....

...... Do I really have to explain to you what happens when a large corporation is in direct competition with poorly funded public services? The year is 2020 and you would think after decades of austerity leading to the privatization of services from health care to infrastructure which have lead to horrible outcomes we would get the picture already..... But I guess this time things will be different??!?!

Here's a little primer of Musk's vision:

https://prospect.org/infrastructure/ridesharing-versus-public-transit/
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-04-29/when-a-town-takes-uber-instead-of-public-transit
http://news.mit.edu/2020/how-does-ridesourcing-substitute-public-transit-network-0727

<Moved this from the Tesla thread since most of the articles are about Uber and none quote Elon. The whole business model and what it does to society and who is actually funding it are interesting. kassy>
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: Sigmetnow on November 01, 2020, 09:25:37 PM
Bloomberg: "Fortress postpones plan for a train to Las Vegas from Southern California after failing to sell a record amount of unrated municipal debt to finance the project.”
https://t.co/vzGj4A5Sqh?amp=1

https://mobile.twitter.com/business/status/1322728473211949056
Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: gerontocrat on November 01, 2020, 10:49:47 PM
Some say that uber and robotaxis will kill mass transit systems. Others say not so.

https://www.sustainable-bus.com/news/electric-vehicle-outlook-2020-bnef-electric-buses/
Today there are 500,000 e-buses in operation globally. And the share of battery-operated vehicles is bound to cover «over 67% of the global bus fleet in 2040». The figure and the forecast are pointed out in the newly-released Electric Vehicle Outlook 2020 by Bloomberg New Energy Finance (BNEF).

500,000 e-buses today in operation. They’ll take 67 of the global bus fleet by 2040, BNEF says
Quote
What is interesting, in BNEF’s report, is that, according to the researchers, electric bus vehicles «will not fully take over the market. Diesel and eventually hydrogen fuel cell buses round out the rest of the fleet by 2040 in areas where installing charging infrastructure is difficult, or where temperatures are extreme, or near industrial clusters where hydrogen production is being deployed, or finally where local incumbents favor such technology».

Being more specific, according to BNEF, fuel cell applications will account for 6.5% of bus annuals sales in 2040.


Title: Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
Post by: Sigmetnow on November 23, 2020, 04:11:12 PM
 :o
Quote
11/22/20, 5:34 PM
China may have the world’s biggest high speed rail network, but it’s reliant on guys sat on top of a train with wooden sticks to de-ice the overhead power lines in winter! @25kV 
➡️ https://twitter.com/ogilvie_cj/status/1330640786711588865
Screen cap below; 53 second vid at the link. (Sound on!)