Arctic Sea Ice : Forum

Cryosphere => Arctic background => Topic started by: Pmt111500 on April 22, 2013, 07:57:20 AM

Title: Baltic Images
Post by: Pmt111500 on April 22, 2013, 07:57:20 AM
a couple of images of various stages of melt in the baltic.
1. rotten large floe (c.100m in diameter)
2. ship wave action on broken up rotten ice
3. about the smallest chunks still easily seen from above (c.1-3 m diam.)
4. the remnants of type 3's, almost wholly submerged 
Title: Re: Baltic Images
Post by: Pmt111500 on April 22, 2013, 08:27:02 AM
narrow channel clogged by mixture of variously sized floes. tried to take some photos in the sunset too, but the autofocus didn't manage the low light.
Title: Re: Baltic Images
Post by: Pmt111500 on June 10, 2013, 07:30:19 AM
I don't know how I forgot there's a Modis-RapidResponse service also for Baltic. Attached an image taken at the same time than the above images were taken. Most are from the best navigable channel leading to the mainland. The locations marked might not be exact, but somewhat close anyway.
Title: Re: Baltic Images
Post by: Pmt111500 on January 15, 2014, 08:37:25 AM
The shallower bays have started to freeze hereabouts (about 7 pixels off ;-)) after some 5 days of -10 degree weather. (funny, if there were no engines (electric or petrol), my whole life would fit in a 290*210px image on this scale. never made any longer biking tours.)
Title: Re: Baltic Images
Post by: Pmt111500 on March 19, 2017, 11:46:36 AM
The harbour at the river mouth almost clear of ice. 3 spring rains have passed here since the last image at Arctic café. I guess the next rains take out the rest of ice. Spring is definitely here.
Title: Re: Baltic Images
Post by: Neven on March 19, 2017, 01:01:27 PM
Nice thread, Pmt111500, hadn't seen it yet. I'm moving it to Arctic Background.
Title: Re: Baltic Images
Post by: Pmt111500 on March 19, 2017, 02:16:15 PM
thanks, Neven. I had forgot this thread too so I posted one set of Baltic images to Arctic café : https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,179.msg105546.html#msg105546

Then there was the meltpooling image at https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,179.msg103093.html#msg103093 which is from the same spot (but southwards) than the last image on this thread.

The rest of the images at Arctic Café are of the river and of the lake so 'Baltic' doesn't apply for them.
Title: Re: Baltic Images
Post by: gerontocrat on March 19, 2017, 03:34:25 PM
A few years ago, due to vagaries of wind and weather, a little inlet in the Baltic got clogged up with loads of ice. It refused to melt. This prompted one of our most dedicated deniers, Mr. Christopher Booker, to write in the Daily Telegraph how this one month delay proved beyond a doubt that Global Warming was utter and complete nonsense. That the sea ice in the rest of the Arctic was melting before our eyes was, of course, of no moment.

So do not be surprised if your image showing a bit of ice left in the harbour is used for a surprising purpose. But more images please - I did some contracts for Swedish Aid many years ago and remember...
Title: Re: Baltic Images
Post by: Pmt111500 on March 19, 2017, 04:39:20 PM
There isn't too much sea ice left here in easily accessed places so that couldve been the last image in this spring. Last summer I found a place where I could have taken an overview image of the opening message area, but that, in winter, would involve a 2-mile trek along icy rocks and cliffs so it's not likely I ever get there, in winter...
Title: Re: Baltic Images
Post by: Pmt111500 on December 12, 2017, 11:53:24 AM
This is just the note that the Winter has started here, J.Sainio took this aerial photo of my home city just yesterday and I just set on it some of the locations of my photos presented here on ASI Forum. Today more snow has fallen and the apple tree on the yard has abt. 2 inches (5 cm) of snow on all broader twigs. Maybe taking some images tomorrow, this evening is all about the snow job (really) on the driveway (removing the estimated 6-7 inches. 15 to 17,5cm that is).

(Modified 2018.02.24 : Added some of the newer ones)
Title: Re: Baltic Images
Post by: Pmt111500 on February 18, 2018, 12:20:27 PM
Visited sea/riverside today.
1. Many people outing (this is a location that has very little currents)
2. Albedo photo (the rotating ice sled is quite traditional)
3. Old quarry wall melts partially in the evening sun.
4. River has no reliable ice (the few plus-days have melted south slopes a bit increasing the volume of water, then ice breaks and moves every which way resulting in a mesh of possibly 3cm -- 50cm ice. Better watch your step or avoid alltogether)
Title: Re: Baltic Images
Post by: Pmt111500 on February 18, 2018, 02:18:14 PM
Phone camera cuts too much light off when there's lotsof ice/snow so here's a better version of the 'albedo photo' sea water-clear ice-snowy ice.
Title: Re: Baltic Images
Post by: harpy on February 24, 2018, 02:36:07 AM
Which city is this?
Title: Re: Baltic Images
Post by: Pmt111500 on February 26, 2018, 05:52:12 AM
Southern coast of Finland.

Here's the historical maximum extent of ice on Baltic, now that I again found it. I post this here too as it'll get buried in the thread I first put it in. (forgot the link on 20180226 (possibly changes sometime like the links in republican controlled EPA)): https://www.eea.europa.eu/data-and-maps/indicators/arctic-sea-ice-2/assessment
Title: Re: Baltic Images
Post by: Pmt111500 on March 18, 2018, 06:17:22 PM
River ice photo. This bit had cracked from the pressure of water from beneath and let out water that melted the snow on river ice to skatable ice.
Title: Re: Baltic Images
Post by: crandles on March 18, 2018, 11:23:08 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-europe-43437722/swiss-pianist-gives-concert-on-ice-in-northern-baltic-sea

<iframe width="400" height="500" frameborder="0" src="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/embed/p061dq66/43437722"></iframe>
Title: Re: Baltic Images
Post by: Pmt111500 on March 19, 2018, 06:30:45 AM
Friend's photo this morning from around 60°17'N 22°00'E
Title: Re: Baltic Images
Post by: Sleepy on March 19, 2018, 07:10:42 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-europe-43437722/swiss-pianist-gives-concert-on-ice-in-northern-baltic-sea

<iframe width="400" height="500" frameborder="0" src="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/embed/p061dq66/43437722"></iframe>
I would probably not sit there calmly.  :)
Title: Re: Baltic Images
Post by: Sleepy on March 22, 2018, 05:58:23 PM
Sundsvall has got a new alpine mountain, Nackstafjället.
https://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a/WLeQ8G/martins-bild-pa-sundsvalls-nya-fjall-har-blivit-viral (https://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a/WLeQ8G/martins-bild-pa-sundsvalls-nya-fjall-har-blivit-viral)
The amount of emissions to transport all that snow, is another story. Sundsvalls budget was 40 million kronor which should cover 80 days of work and they have used 85 vehicles for snow clearing (according to earlier news in January) and they were able to move 30,000m³ in 2,5 days.
Title: Re: Baltic Images
Post by: iamlsd on March 23, 2018, 01:25:38 AM
I'd be a bit worried about where all the melt water will go  :o
Title: Re: Baltic Images
Post by: Sleepy on March 23, 2018, 05:11:54 AM
Yeah, this is regarded as environmentally hazardous activity according to the environmental code. There's another one like Nackstafjället a few kilometres north of Sundsvall as well, in Birsta. They dig diverging dikes that collects meltwater into a sedimentation pool, the heavier particles will then sink to the bottom and the water will be directed to an oil separation filter before it eventually seeps into the soil layers, on its way into the Bothnian sea and the Baltic.
Title: Re: Baltic Images
Post by: iamlsd on March 28, 2018, 03:45:30 PM
Thanks Sleepy - interesting to see what people do to keep their towns functioning in cold climates. My kids have never seen snow but have experience plenty of days over 40 C.
Title: Re: Baltic Images
Post by: Sleepy on March 29, 2018, 08:42:22 AM
It sure is iamlsd, these seem to be popular on the other side of the Atlantic:
http://www.trecan.com (http://www.trecan.com)
I remember making some calculations back in 2015 (Boston snowmageddon) and you could power a 15,000kWh/yr house, somewhere between 118-165 years on the same amount of energy one of those machines consumed in five days while melting snow.
Title: Re: Baltic Images
Post by: Niall Dollard on March 29, 2018, 12:08:34 PM
In 2015 a large snow pile in Boston took until July to melt out.

https://edition.cnn.com/2015/07/15/us/boston-snow-pile-finally-melts/

Some years in Anchorage, Alaska the snow pile survived right through the summer.

A nice historical account of the problems of dealing with the snow here:

https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/the-strangeand-sometimes-secretways-cities-deal-with-massive-piles-of-snow
Title: Re: Baltic Images
Post by: Brigantine on March 29, 2018, 11:45:49 PM
Some years in Anchorage, Alaska the snow pile survived right through the summer.

Do you have a source for that? All I could find was something about the snow pile being *expected* to last through summer, but not whether it actually did.
Title: Re: Baltic Images
Post by: Sebastian Jones on March 30, 2018, 05:40:36 PM
Some years in Anchorage, Alaska the snow pile survived right through the summer.

Do you have a source for that? All I could find was something about the snow pile being *expected* to last through summer, but not whether it actually did.
In the north we give equal credence to traditional and local knowledge as we do to scientific knowledge, so where I live, if a local, especially an Elder, tells you something, you can pretty well take it to the bank. That does not mean it cannot be   wrong, just like science is sometimes wrong.
However Brig, I can assure you that it is quite easy to store snow over the summer in the north. Some of it is thousands of years old in the form of permafrost, but one can perform the experiment on one's back yard too- simply pile up some snow, tarp it and cover it with a few inches of sawdust and it will last all summer easily.  The ice in my creek often lasts until August, and it is terrain rather than the sun that kills it. Sometimes I consider putting a big tent up over part of it, just to see if it would last until the following winter.
Title: Re: Baltic Images
Post by: be cause on March 30, 2018, 06:20:46 PM
funny .. I was wondering about these piles of snow .. in relation to the unlikelyhood of Quebec's snow lasting all summer .. the evidence here suggests the idea of the next ice-age starting because Canada has an extra foot of snow has melted .. :)
  b.c.
Title: Re: Baltic Images
Post by: Niall Dollard on March 30, 2018, 08:31:34 PM
Some years in Anchorage, Alaska the snow pile survived right through the summer.

Do you have a source for that? All I could find was something about the snow pile being *expected* to last through summer, but not whether it actually did.

I first came across this in a snippet on an Alaskan Weather Calendar.

Also mentioned in this ski blog:  http://crust.outlookalaska.com/Blog/Blog_2012.htm
Title: Re: Baltic Images
Post by: Tor Bejnar on March 30, 2018, 08:47:31 PM
It isn't "Baltic" but I did LOL upon finishing the article.
Title: Re: Baltic Images
Post by: Brigantine on March 30, 2018, 11:38:51 PM
Also mentioned in this ski blog:  http://crust.outlookalaska.com/Blog/Blog_2012.htm
Thanks! That's very interesting.

It seems like the officials *could* have made sure it all melted, but chose otherwise. Still, it's news to me that gravel and bulldozers are needed just to make sure it melts in summer, and good to know.

Now I'm wondering what the plan is in Sundsvall - they should be safe enough just waiting for the sun to come out right?
Title: Re: Baltic Images
Post by: Bernard on March 31, 2018, 12:57:58 AM
[Follow-up of OT conversation about storing ice year round.]

Storing ice is possible even in not-so-cold places. In France's sunny Provence, they used to have "glacières", or ice-houses, where ice produced locally in winter or harvested in the near Alps mountains was safely stored and used all summer. A nice article about it (in French, but you get images at the end).
http://www.merveilles-du-var.net/mazaugues-les-glacieres
Title: Re: Baltic Images
Post by: SteveMDFP on March 31, 2018, 02:30:28 AM
[Follow-up of OT conversation about storing ice year round.]

Storing ice is possible even in not-so-cold places. In France's sunny Provence, they used to have "glacières", or ice-houses, where ice produced locally in winter or harvested in the near Alps mountains was safely stored and used all summer. A nice article about it (in French, but you get images at the end).
http://www.merveilles-du-var.net/mazaugues-les-glacieres

One doesn't even need nearby Alps.  This technique has been used in Virginia, too, I've seen it myself:

Monticello Ice House
https://www.monticello.org/site/house-and-gardens/ice-house (https://www.monticello.org/site/house-and-gardens/ice-house)

That Tom Jefferson was a clever dude.
Title: Re: Baltic Images
Post by: Aluminium on April 07, 2018, 07:42:23 AM
60°02'N 29°42'E. An ice hut near Kotlin.
Title: Re: Baltic Images
Post by: TerryM on April 13, 2018, 12:00:58 AM
A local ice house burned down in the mid '50s. Somewhere I have some old photos of men sawing the ice for use in home iceboxes. The icehouse was a nice cool place to play during hot summer nights.
Terry
Title: Re: Baltic Images
Post by: Sleepy on April 23, 2018, 05:11:49 AM
Also mentioned in this ski blog:  http://crust.outlookalaska.com/Blog/Blog_2012.htm
Thanks! That's very interesting.

It seems like the officials *could* have made sure it all melted, but chose otherwise. Still, it's news to me that gravel and bulldozers are needed just to make sure it melts in summer, and good to know.

Now I'm wondering what the plan is in Sundsvall - they should be safe enough just waiting for the sun to come out right?
It will need som help, stirring up the top layer and such to help melting. Nackstafjället was closed a week ago. The snow mound in Sundsvall has taken 32,000 truckloads of snow this winter - or 700,000 m³ of snow. The municipality has exceeded its snow budget by 35 million kronor.
A small tour on Nackstafjället, in Swedish but you don't need to understand them.

https://youtu.be/RTOpiQEN04A

The hospital in Sundsvall uses their own constructed mound a lot smarter, for cooling.
https://www.rvn.se/sv/v1/In-english1/In-english/Environment-and-energy/Energy-Factor-2/Snow-cooling-in-Sundsvall/ (https://www.rvn.se/sv/v1/In-english1/In-english/Environment-and-energy/Energy-Factor-2/Snow-cooling-in-Sundsvall/)
https://www.rvn.se/contentassets/f979402825a344ec8aa934a346c65e45/snokyla_eng.pdf (https://www.rvn.se/contentassets/f979402825a344ec8aa934a346c65e45/snokyla_eng.pdf)
(https://www.rvn.se/contentassets/f979402825a344ec8aa934a346c65e45/snokyla_eng_webb3.jpg)

A couple of older links (in English) to that project.
https://www.diva-portal.org/smash/get/diva2:1011643/FULLTEXT01.pdf (https://www.diva-portal.org/smash/get/diva2:1011643/FULLTEXT01.pdf)
https://www.naturvardsverket.se/Documents/publikationer6400/978-91-620-8558-2.pdf?pid=4240 (https://www.naturvardsverket.se/Documents/publikationer6400/978-91-620-8558-2.pdf?pid=4240)