Arctic Sea Ice : Forum

Off-topic => The rest => Topic started by: ASILurker on February 18, 2019, 02:06:53 PM

Title: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 18, 2019, 02:06:53 PM
editing out my own 'wasted time'


Frankly I do not care what happens in or to Venezuela btw. It's none of my business let alone my responsibility to fix.

The key issue for me is not Venezuela itself but that this issue again presents another opportunity for millions of people in and out of the USA to finally face up to and shake off their Conditioning.

It's an opportunity for people to re-evaluate, to drop their many Cultural Myths and personal Beliefs that are no longer sustainable in present time.

That those myths and beliefs they have lived their entire lives accepting as Tuisms are now far less sustainable than even BAU on this planet is Sustainable.

Events like Venezuela then is another opportunity  for people to confront themselves and change how they think about everything now. The more who do this the better for everyone. The sooner genuine systemic changes can begin to be put in place to solve the looming global catastrophe that is AGW/CC. 
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 18, 2019, 05:31:02 PM
Election Monitoring - hard to find - lots of verbiage not many hard nosed analysis can I put my fingers on.

In another thread with the rave by George Galloway he mentioned the Carter Center saying "pristine elections, the best in the world." Now that truly belongs in the over-top-spin Spin category. Yes Carter did say that however it was about the last Election of Chavez in 2012. Just because elections a decade ago wee considered great by the Carter Center does not mean they still are ever since. Galloway doesn't help his cause one bit there.

On the other hand he isn't the only person or media outlet beating the Spin drums over Venezuela elections as this report suggests back in 2012.
https://nacla.org/blog/2012/10/8/hall-shame-venezuelan-elections-coverage
and this from 2016
https://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/12104

Saw one detailed news report (now can't put my finger on it) that spoke about the United Nations refusal to send Election Observers that the NEC (Venezuela's electoral body) had requested attend. The UN refused and reused to make public the reasons for their refusal, which is most unusual.  They sent a letter in May 2018 to the Govt giving reasons but I can find a copy of that as yet.
 
Quote
International Electoral Accompaniment Missions Declare May 20 Elections Free and Fair
Read the four reports from the electoral accompaniment mission in full here.
General Report
This is the  report written by the mission as a whole, which includes representatives from countries such as Russia, Palestine, China, Spain, UK, Ireland, USA, Australia, Syria, Switzerland, Germany, Italy, the Philippines, Indonesia, France, Brazil, Argentina, Ecuador, Bolivia, Uruguay, Chile, Surinam, Paraguay, Colombia, and Peru.
    "We the international accompaniers consider that the technical and professional trustworthiness and independence of the National Electoral Council of Venezuela are uncontestable."

https://venezuelanalysis.com/news/13817

Not read all that, not sure what to make of it.

Quote
Elections in Venezuela: Democratic, Fair and Transparent
Nicolas Maduro was re-elected president for the 2019-2025 period by more than two thirds of the voters. The Lima Group, Luis Almagro and the Canadian government immediately issued declarations of not recognizing the elections for being illegitimate, as if they had been prepared before May 20. However, is there any valid basis to those declarations?

https://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/13837

Quote
International Observers to Venezuela’s Election Pen Letter to the EU
International observers to Venezuela’s elections have written to Federica Mogherini, High Representative of the EU for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy, about the problems with the EU declaration on the elections.

We were unanimous in concluding that the elections were conducted fairly, that the election conditions were not biased, that genuine irregularities were exceptionally few and of a very minor nature. There was no vote buying because there is no way that a vote CAN be bought. The procedure itself precludes any possibility of anyone knowing how a voter cast her or his vote; and it is impossible – as we verified – for an individual to vote more than once or for anyone to vote on behalf of someone else.

In short, the claims in your press release are fabrications of the most disgraceful kind, based on hearsay and not on evidence and unworthy of the EU. It has not escaped notice that the EU was invited to send observers to the election and declined to do so. NONE of the criticism in your EU press release is, therefore, based on direct EU observation in the field.

https://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/13899

Quote
Observing Venezuela’s Election and the Myths Around It
An official observer to Venezuela’s presidential election, Fox addresses some of the media-generated myths that are rooted in opposition to a chavismo project which improved the lives of millions.
 
Internationally, Chávez aimed to reduce, if not eliminate, what he felt to be the economic and the political domination of his country by the United States. He collaborated with other like-minded governments in Latin America to achieve the same at continental level. He called his political programme the ‘Bolivarian Revolution’ and even changed the country’s formal name to the ‘Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela’ in honour of Simón Bolívar, the great 19th century leader of South America’s independence from Spain. Romantic certainly, but a permanent reminder that independence – the right of a nation to choose its own destiny lay, and continues to lie – at the heart of the chavista project.

For some within the country, the Bolivarian Revolution has always been an anathema. An attempt to unseat Chávez by force in 2002 nearly succeeded. It was foiled by the army, which has remained a stout defender of the country’s democracy. Nicolás Maduro, Chávez’s successor, has met with a different kind of resistance: street violence and calls from opponents for the United States to help topple Maduro and his ‘regime’.

Maduro is a substantial figure, with an impressive command of the stage, but he came to power during an economic downturn brought on by a dramatic fall in the price of oil. He won the 2013 election – with a very narrow majority – to cries of fraud from the supporters of his rightwing opponent, Henrique Capriles. Without the oil revenues that had financed Chávez’s social policies, Venezuela’s ill-balanced economy, with its heavy dependence on oil, became evident. Imports of food, medicines and consumer goods fell away, creating shortages that severely affected the less well-off.

https://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/13866

Apparently varying opinions abound.

It's critical to know the lead up to these elections were extremely complicated due to the Opposition Parties winning control of the "assembly" (eg like the Congress) in the elections before. They outright refused to cooperate in any way with the Govt and in fact refused to "work". In 3 years (?) they have not passed a single Law.

So imagine what would a US President do if the Congress refused to do anything? If they never even bothered to turn up to work? Pretty strange way to operate. Their Supreme Court tried to fix that and condemned those involved but little could be done (it's complex, but this is has underpinned the problems in the 2018 election from the get go. Also hard because I don't speak Spanish where most fo teh news about this would be found in detail.) 

Maduro was "forced" to set up an alternative body, originally to handle developing a new/revised Constitution at some point... its job was expanded which included establishing the setup for the next election in 2018. All the way through the Opposition refused to cooperate at all.

Furthermore historically it's interesting. The last time the Carter Center was an election observer was in 2015.    see https://www.cartercenter.org/news/publications/election_reports.html#venezuela

Quote
As scheduled, on Sunday June 28 the United Socialist Party of Venezuela (PSUV) held its primary elections. The event was prolonged until 10 pm following PSUV pleas to the CNE claiming large voter turnouts at some polling centers. At the close of election day activities, PSUV vice-president DiosdadoCabello expressed his satisfaction at what he termed the population’s“historic”participation with a total of 3,162,400 voters.

Even though the PSUVheld its primary elections in all 87 of the country’s districts, only 98 of the 113 candidates to be elected by nominal vote were chosen in the primary process and the party-list proportional deputies were notvoted on. Altogether, 59 percent of all nominees were elected in the primaries. The remaining 69 PSUV candidates will be decided on by political party cadres through negotiation or by consensus with all ten member parties comprising the “SimónBolívar” Great Patriotic Pole (GPPSB).

https://www.cartercenter.org/resources/pdfs/peace/americas/informe-de-seguimiento-may-june-2015-en.pdf

Quote
Then, in the context of the case against the Venezuelan media outlets known as ElNacional, TalCual, and LaPatilla for “continuous aggravated defamation,” the court prohibited 22 executives of these media outlets from leaving the country. The lawsuit, filed by National Assembly President Diosdado Cabello, seeks to punish these outlets for replicating information published in the Spanish newspaper ABC last February linking him to drug trafficking.
[ Fake News or not Fake News? ]

and the main Opposition Parties primary voting results

Also, as scheduled, during the period covered by this report the Democratic Unity Table (Mesadela Unidad Democrática‐MUD) held the primaries it had announced to select 25 percent of the candidates to represent the various parties in the opposition coalition in the 2015 parliamentary elections. The MUD’s primary elections were held with technical support from the National Electoral Council in 33 of the country’s 87 districts, culminating in the selection of 37 candidates.

Unity Table officers announced that the total number of voters was 570,892, accounting for 7.64 percent of the registered voters in the districts where the elections were held. The PrimeroJusticia (PJ) and VoluntadPopular (VP) parties managed to rank first and second, respectively, in the number of votes cast and the number of candidates elected. MUD leaders considered the elections “successful” describing the level of participation as “higher than expected.”

https://www.cartercenter.org/resources/pdfs/news/peace_publications/americas/informe-de-seguimiento-april-may-2015-en.pdf

So Maduro's Party in 2015 has a 3,162,400 primary voter turnout, while the Opposition Parties gets  570,892 ? That surely says something.

Much details on Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Venezuelan_presidential_election

One thing I found intriguing is the huge variations in the pre-election Polling numbers. Something is not right there including the fact they only use 1000 respondents in these polls, versus the typical 2000+ required for such a national poll.

Quote
In a January 2018 poll surrounding the presidential election, Meganalisis stated that only 29% of respondents desired to vote in the elections and 72.5% stated that they did not trust the CNE electoral body. Those who chose not to vote had various reasons; 45% believed that even if they voted, hunger would continue, 20% believed it was a "waste of time", and 13% believed that the opposition had betrayed the country. As for the support of political parties, 81% stated that they were not part of any party, 12% were part of the government PSUV party, and 6% supported the opposition-led MUD.
How trustworthy these polling firms are I have no idea. But it;s true that the Opposition supporting people operate all the TV stations and media there ... except for Telesur which is govt funded.

I will have a break now. :)
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 19, 2019, 07:53:07 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBYs1NWOp1Q


https://edition.cnn.com/politics/live-news/trump-venezuela-speech/
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 19, 2019, 08:31:04 AM
 ‘They want to enslave us!’ Maduro slams Trump’s ultimatum & ‘Nazi-style’ attack on socialism
Published time: 19 Feb, 2019

 Nicolas Maduro has slammed Donald Trump’s belligerent rhetoric and his crusade against socialism after US president effectively ordered Venezuelan military to support opposition leader Juan Guaido, if they care about their future.

“Who is the commander of the armed forces, Donald Trump from Miami?” president Maduro wondered aloud after the US leader virtually issued an ultimatum to the Venezuelan armed forces, warning officers they won’t have any possible “way out” unless they accept Guaido’s “generous offer” to defect without retribution while they still can.

“They think they own the country!” Maduro said on state television, noting that Trump's “arrogant orders” are an “offense to [the] dignity” of the Venezuelan military, who stand ready to defend the country's sovereignty.

The 56-year-old Venezuelan leader also slammed Trump’s attack on socialism in his country and elsewhere, pointing out that the White House’s “Nazi-style discourse” seeks to limit political diversity and impose a “colonial model” of US “supremacy” across Latin America. “They want to enslave us,” Maduro said.

    #Maduro: ‘US humanitarian aid is crumbs, a show by the US govt to humiliate #Venezuela’ pic.twitter.com/T4L3RkSiIo
    — RT (@RT_com) February 17, 2019

Trump’s speech in Miami, which spelled out a US crusade against socialism in Latin America, was also challenged by Cuban Foreign Minister Bruno Rodriguez.

“Humanitarian aid is a pretext for a war of oil plunder,” Rodriguez said on Twitter, accusing Trump of trying to impose a “puppet” president in Venezuela. The “offensive” rhetoric only “confirms the threat of military aggression against Venezuela,” the diplomat added.

https://www.rt.com/news/451788-maduro-trump-nazi-style-speech/

http://versionfinal.com.ve/politica-dinero/maduro-fanb-respondera-con-moral-y-unidad-a-llamados-insolentes-de-donald-trump/
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 19, 2019, 09:59:28 AM

Maduro is wasting his time and his breath

Maduro to Americans:
  You are bigger than Trump, don’t let him start ‘Vietnam’ war against Venezuela


Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Human Habitat Index on February 19, 2019, 10:53:21 AM
Anti Maduro protestors are all wearing designer clothes.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Sterks on February 19, 2019, 03:54:29 PM
This thread is a shame that I wish I hadn't had the displeasure to find.
Don't confuse Venezuela with its current Tirano.
People are dying under Maduro's oppression. Migrating to countries like Spain as refugees because they simply don't have Bread to Eat.
I don't understand why this manipulated content is allowed in this forum.
But now that it is allowed: todo el cariño y el ánimo al pueblo venezolano desde Europa! Abajo la tiranía!
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: b_lumenkraft on February 19, 2019, 04:55:49 PM
Hey Sterks,

may i ask you, are you from Venezuela?
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 19, 2019, 07:36:26 PM
"manipulated content" ? (sigh) but to be expected. Issues such as this subject become issues because they're contested. Just like the 2016 elections (and many other things) were contested became an issue and still are.

To lumenkraft and HHI I'm thinking along these lines atm. Venezuela is going to be a confronting issue for anti-Trumpers, Russiagaters and strong pro-Hillary/pro-Pelosi Democrats - not merely the media but everyday people. I think it is going to push a lot of buttons and generate much "cognitive dissonance" because what will be coming up whether consciously or unconsciously.

I suspect most will quite easily (and quickly be forced) to make major rationalizations to the keep their mental ship afloat.

On the other hand it will be interesting to attach where Bernie Sanders goes with this, and AOC, and Tulsi Gabbard in the democrat circles. I think I have a good idea where Jill Stein will go, the overall the anti-war, anti-regime change public figures are going to take enormous heat from this, and they will be ostracized, and they be pilloried, and they wil be silenced by the media but will they personal "fold" or stick to principle and reason?

I have no doubt the US as a whole (polling etc) will back this new War to the hilt. Not only the war against Venezuela but this entire anti-socialism / communism rhetoric across the board .. the media and the bulk of the population will on board this Exceptional US Patriot Express in a flash.

Clearly Trump and his team are doing the usual to setup the 2020 elections and win hands down as another War president.

Which leaves another question about the cognitive dissonance of the Trump Supporters, the one's who voted for him to stop doing this kind of shit and having Presidents and their Administrations and the Media outright lying through their teeth and using sophistry and marketing techniques to convince the populous what they are doing is Noble and Ethical and Justified.

History being what it is a very good teacher for those able to dig into the complex details and the competing rhetoric of the past and learn from it. It's such a good teacher I have no doubt Trump is going to "win" this project hands down. How to win such a campaign to get the US Public on board is a high art in the USA. They got it nailed and Trump has not found his feet and doing what he was always capable of doing. Uniting the nation against "tyranny and evil"

Nothing can stop this now. Maduro is "toast" and Venezuela and other places in South America is going to bleed for at least a decade and Trump will be re-elected in a heart beat.

No one from the Democrats will be able to put up a challenge against this Latin Vietnam and win the hearts and minds of the US Public and Media at the same time. So Tulsi Gabbard is now toast too. As is Bernie .. which will open the door up for Joe Biden to walk through and maybe have a shot at. But US Policy will remain the same, and US principles and Values will remain the same too. 

And next to nothing will be done of any significance in the USA to address Agw/CC between now and circa 2030. So be it. (barring miracles and acts of God in coming years) But the die is cast now.

Trump is now doing exactly what he said he would not do. Just as GW Bush and Obama did what he said he would never do in his 2000 election. But once they get inside the Oval Office all these kinds of promises go out the window. They stop living in reality, lose touch with who they are and what they believed, their values and PRINCIPLES,  and RATIONALIZE away what they had promised, because it is them who get manipulated by those around them so easily by TPTB and their spokespeople in the Administration.

It's a fixed template. The US has it down pat.

Lastly it should also be obvious but just in case it isn't, if Hillary Clinton had one she would have been on stage saying the exact same things as Trump yesterday. I bet she is really green with envy now! :)
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 19, 2019, 07:39:51 PM
This thread is a shame that I wish I hadn't had the displeasure to find.


Neven is away for a few days, as soon as he gets back I am sure he will remove this new thread from the front page panel and so you can more easily ignore it.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 19, 2019, 07:59:17 PM
This thread is a shame that I wish I hadn't had the displeasure to find.


Neven is away for a few days, as soon as he gets back I am sure he will remove this new thread from the front page panel and so you can more easily ignore it.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 19, 2019, 08:00:06 PM
"manipulated content" ? (sigh) but to be expected. Issues such as this subject become issues because they're contested. Just like the 2016 elections (and many other things) were contested became an issue and still are.

To lumenkraft and HHI I'm thinking along these lines atm. Venezuela is going to be a confronting issue for anti-Trumpers, Russiagaters and strong pro-Hillary/pro-Pelosi Democrats - not merely the media but everyday people. I think it is going to push a lot of buttons and generate much "cognitive dissonance" because what will be coming up whether consciously or unconsciously.

I suspect most will quite easily (and quickly be forced) to make major rationalizations to the keep their mental ship afloat.

On the other hand it will be interesting to attach where Bernie Sanders goes with this, and AOC, and Tulsi Gabbard in the democrat circles. I think I have a good idea where Jill Stein will go, the overall the anti-war, anti-regime change public figures are going to take enormous heat from this, and they will be ostracized, and they be pilloried, and they will be silenced by the media but will they personally "fold" or stick to principle and reason?

I have no doubt the US as a whole (polling etc) will back this new War to the hilt. Not only the war against Venezuela but this entire anti-socialism / communism rhetoric across the board .. the media and the bulk of the population will on board this Exceptional US Patriot Express in a flash.

Clearly Trump and his team are doing the usual to setup the 2020 elections and win hands down as another War president.

Which leaves another question about the cognitive dissonance of the Trump Supporters, the one's who voted for him to stop doing this kind of shit and having Presidents and their Administrations and the Media outright lying through their teeth and using sophistry and marketing techniques to convince the populous what they are doing is Noble and Ethical and Justified.

History being what it is a very good teacher for those able to dig into the complex details and the competing rhetoric of the past and learn from it. It's such a good teacher I have no doubt Trump is going to "win" this project hands down. How to win such a campaign to get the US Public on board is a high art in the USA. They got it nailed and Trump has not found his feet and doing what he was always capable of doing. Uniting the nation against "tyranny and evil"

Nothing can stop this now. Maduro is "toast" and Venezuela and other places in South America is going to bleed for at least a decade and Trump will be re-elected in a heart beat.

No one from the Democrats will be able to put up a challenge against this Latin Vietnam and win the hearts and minds of the US Public and Media at the same time. So Tulsi Gabbard is now toast too. As is Bernie .. which will open the door up for Joe Biden to walk through and maybe have a shot at. But US Policy will remain the same, and US principles and Values will remain the same too. 

And subsequently being on a war footing and all the media attention on War, next to nothing will be done of any significance in the USA to address Agw/CC between now and circa 2030. So be it ... (barring miracles and acts of God in coming years). Not my problem or responsibility to fix that.  But the die is cast now.

Trump is now doing exactly what he said he would not do. Just as GW Bush (and Obama too) what he said he would never do in his 2000 election - he'd stop the overseas UN involvements, put the US first and stop the regime change useless wars and waste of US lives and coin.

But once they get inside the Oval Office all these kinds of promises go out the window. They stop living in reality, lose touch with who they are and what they believed, their values and PRINCIPLES,  and RATIONALIZE away what they had promised, because it is them who get manipulated by those around them so easily by TPTB  and their "owned" spokespeople inside the Administration, and perfectly aligned with the Presidents own egotistical drive for political survival and being to be seen as a "US hero" of note in US history post-office. Trump is no different than all the rest before him and all the wanna bes like McCain.

It's a fixed template. The US has it down pat. Not hard to write the movie plot now and get it 99% right of what comes from here. Suddenly almost out of nowhere Trump loves Cuba and Venezuela and we just go to go save those poor poor downtrodden "freedom loving" people right now immediately or else the world will end. Only America can save them now!!!

Lastly it should also be obvious but just in case it isn't, if Hillary Clinton had one she would have been on stage saying the exact same things as Trump yesterday. I bet she is really green with envy now!
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 19, 2019, 08:14:26 PM
"manipulated content" ? (sigh) but to be expected. Issues such as this subject become issues because they're contested. Just like the 2016 elections (and many other things) were contested became an issue and still are.

To lumenkraft and HHI I'm thinking along these lines atm. Venezuela is going to be a confronting issue for anti-Trumpers, Russiagaters and strong pro-Hillary/pro-Pelosi Democrats - not merely the media but everyday people. I think it is going to push a lot of buttons and generate much "cognitive dissonance" because what will be coming up whether consciously or unconsciously.

I suspect most will quite easily (and quickly be forced) to make major rationalizations to the keep their mental ship afloat.

On the other hand it will be interesting to attach where Bernie Sanders goes with this, and AOC, and Tulsi Gabbard in the democrat circles. I think I have a good idea where Jill Stein will go, the overall the anti-war, anti-regime change public figures are going to take enormous heat from this, and they will be ostracized, and they be pilloried, and they will be silenced by the media but will they personally "fold" or stick to principle and reason?

I have no doubt the US as a whole (polling etc) will back this new War to the hilt. Not only the war against Venezuela but this entire anti-socialism / communism rhetoric across the board .. the media and the bulk of the population will on board this Exceptional US Patriot Express in a flash.

Clearly Trump and his team are doing the usual to setup the 2020 elections and win hands down as another War president.

Which leaves another question about the cognitive dissonance of the Trump Supporters, the one's who voted for him to stop doing this kind of shit and having Presidents and their Administrations and the Media outright lying through their teeth and using sophistry and marketing techniques to convince the populous what they are doing is Noble and Ethical and Justified.

History being what it is a very good teacher for those able to dig into the complex details and the competing rhetoric of the past and learn from it. It's such a good teacher I have no doubt Trump is going to "win" this project hands down. How to win such a campaign to get the US Public on board is a high art in the USA. They got it nailed and Trump has not found his feet and doing what he was always capable of doing. Uniting the nation against "tyranny and evil"

Nothing can stop this now. Maduro is "toast" and Venezuela and other places in South America is going to bleed for at least a decade and Trump will be re-elected in a heart beat.

No one from the Democrats will be able to put up a challenge against this Latin Vietnam and win the hearts and minds of the US Public and Media at the same time. So Tulsi Gabbard is now toast too. As is Bernie .. which will open the door up for Joe Biden to walk through and maybe have a shot at. But US Policy will remain the same, and US principles and Values will remain the same too. 

And subsequently being on a war footing and all the media attention on War, next to nothing will be done of any significance in the USA to address Agw/CC between now and circa 2030. So be it ... (barring miracles and acts of God in coming years). Not my problem or responsibility to fix that.  But the die is cast now.

Trump is now doing exactly what he said he would not do. Just as GW Bush (and Obama too) what he said he would never do in his 2000 election - he'd stop the overseas UN involvements, put the US first and stop the regime change useless wars and waste of US lives and coin.

But once they get inside the Oval Office all these kinds of promises go out the window. They stop living in reality, lose touch with who they are and what they believed, their values and PRINCIPLES,  and RATIONALIZE away what they had promised, because it is them who get manipulated by those around them so easily by TPTB  and their "owned" spokespeople inside the Administration, and perfectly aligned with the Presidents own egotistical drive for political survival and being to be seen as a "US hero" of note in US history post-office. Trump is no different than all the rest before him and all the wanna bes like McCain.

It's a fixed template. The US has it down pat. Not hard to write the movie plot now and get it 99% right of what comes from here. Suddenly almost out of nowhere Trump loves Cuba and Venezuela and we just go to go save those poor poor downtrodden "freedom loving" people right now immediately or else the world will end. Only America can save them now!!!

Lastly it should also be obvious but just in case it isn't, if Hillary Clinton had one she would have been on stage saying the exact same things as Trump yesterday. I bet she is really green with envy now!
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Sterks on February 19, 2019, 08:59:25 PM
Hey Sterks,

may i ask you, are you from Venezuela?

No man, but good friend of a couple, and I know more around my place.

I think Venezuelans have been fleeing and coming to Spain in increasing numbers since the late 2000's. I believe it has become a simple matter of finding a place to survive and have a life with dignity.

Anyway, I am not going to follow this thread anymore, not going to bother around. Anyone is entitled to their own opinions and beliefs. And I don't know so much about geopolitics. But let's be clear, millions are suffering misery and lack of freedom over there, and Chaves first and then Maduro are RESPONSIBLE. This is not the non-existing "weapons of mass destruction". No, here there is a weapon of mass destruction: tyrannic populism greedy of profits from natural resources.

I hope international response avoids any kind of full-fledged war, or an unilateral imperialist act, but in any case SHAME ON MADURO for what could ever happen. Don't put that on Trump, as disgusting as the guy can be (actually the orange man doesn't like wars, he thinks they're bad for business, so his greed may have that silver lining)
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Human Habitat Index on February 19, 2019, 11:14:10 PM
Hey Sterks,

may i ask you, are you from Venezuela?

No man, but good friend of a couple, and I know more around my place.

I think Venezuelans have been fleeing and coming to Spain in increasing numbers since the late 2000's. I believe it has become a simple matter of finding a place to survive and have a life with dignity.

Anyway, I am not going to follow this thread anymore, not going to bother around. Anyone is entitled to their own opinions and beliefs. And I don't know so much about geopolitics. But let's be clear, millions are suffering misery and lack of freedom over there, and Chaves first and then Maduro are RESPONSIBLE. This is not the non-existing "weapons of mass destruction". No, here there is a weapon of mass destruction: tyrannic populism greedy of profits from natural resources.

I hope international response avoids any kind of full-fledged war, or an unilateral imperialist act, but in any case SHAME ON MADURO for what could ever happen. Don't put that on Trump, as disgusting as the guy can be (actually the orange man doesn't like wars, he thinks they're bad for business, so his greed may have that silver lining)
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Human Habitat Index on February 19, 2019, 11:17:27 PM
"manipulated content" ? (sigh) but to be expected. Issues such as this subject become issues because they're contested. Just like the 2016 elections (and many other things) were contested became an issue and still are.

To lumenkraft and HHI I'm thinking along these lines atm. Venezuela is going to be a confronting issue for anti-Trumpers, Russiagaters and strong pro-Hillary/pro-Pelosi Democrats - not merely the media but everyday people. I think it is going to push a lot of buttons and generate much "cognitive dissonance" because what will be coming up whether consciously or unconsciously.
I suspect most will quite easily (and quickly be forced) to make major rationalizations to the keep their mental ship afloat.

On the other hand it will be interesting to attach where Bernie Sanders goes with this, and AOC, and Tulsi Gabbard in the democrat circles. I think I have a good idea where Jill Stein will go, the overall the anti-war, anti-regime change public figures are going to take enormous heat from this, and they will be ostracized, and they be pilloried, and they will be silenced by the media but will they personally "fold" or stick to principle and reason?

I have no doubt the US as a whole (polling etc) will back this new War to the hilt. Not only the war against Venezuela but this entire anti-socialism / communism rhetoric across the board .. the media and the bulk of the population will on board this Exceptional US Patriot Express in a flash.

Clearly Trump and his team are doing the usual to setup the 2020 elections and win hands down as another War president.

Which leaves another question about the cognitive dissonance of the Trump Supporters, the one's who voted for him to stop doing this kind of shit and having Presidents and their Administrations and the Media outright lying through their teeth and using sophistry and marketing techniques to convince the populous what they are doing is Noble and Ethical and Justified.

History being what it is a very good teacher for those able to dig into the complex details and the competing rhetoric of the past and learn from it. It's such a good teacher I have no doubt Trump is going to "win" this project hands down. How to win such a campaign to get the US Public on board is a high art in the USA. They got it nailed and Trump has not found his feet and doing what he was always capable of doing. Uniting the nation against "tyranny and evil"

Nothing can stop this now. Maduro is "toast" and Venezuela and other places in South America is going to bleed for at least a decade and Trump will be re-elected in a heart beat.

No one from the Democrats will be able to put up a challenge against this Latin Vietnam and win the hearts and minds of the US Public and Media at the same time. So Tulsi Gabbard is now toast too. As is Bernie .. which will open the door up for Joe Biden to walk through and maybe have a shot at. But US Policy will remain the same, and US principles and Values will remain the same too. 

And subsequently being on a war footing and all the media attention on War, next to nothing will be done of any significance in the USA to address Agw/CC between now and circa 2030. So be it ... (barring miracles and acts of God in coming years). Not my problem or responsibility to fix that.  But the die is cast now.

Trump is now doing exactly what he said he would not do. Just as GW Bush (and Obama too) what he said he would never do in his 2000 election - he'd stop the overseas UN involvements, put the US first and stop the regime change useless wars and waste of US lives and coin.

But once they get inside the Oval Office all these kinds of promises go out the window. They stop living in reality, lose touch with who they are and what they believed, their values and PRINCIPLES,  and RATIONALIZE away what they had promised, because it is them who get manipulated by those around them so easily by TPTB  and their "owned" spokespeople inside the Administration, and perfectly aligned with the Presidents own egotistical drive for political survival and being to be seen as a "US hero" of note in US history post-office. Trump is no different than all the rest before him and all the wanna bes like McCain.

It's a fixed template. The US has it down pat. Not hard to write the movie plot now and get it 99% right of what comes from here. Suddenly almost out of nowhere Trump loves Cuba and Venezuela and we just go to go save those poor poor downtrodden "freedom loving" people right now immediately or else the world will end. Only America can save them now!!!

Lastly it should also be obvious but just in case it isn't, if Hillary Clinton had one she would have been on stage saying the exact same things as Trump yesterday. I bet she is really green with envy now!

Remembering September 11 1973

Were the lives of those killed at the World Trade Centre more valuable than the innocents murdered in Chile's US-backed coup, asks Tito Tricot

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/sep/16/pinochet.september11
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 20, 2019, 01:56:49 AM

Remembering September 11 1973

Were the lives of those killed at the World Trade Centre more valuable than the innocents murdered in Chile's US-backed coup, asks Tito Tricot

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/sep/16/pinochet.september11

Quote
The truth is that no US president ever shed a tear for our dead; no US politician ever sent a flower to our widows. The US government and media [and the American-First World Public] use different standards to measure suffering.

It is precisely this hypocrisy and these double standards that make us sick, especially when on such a symbolic day for Chileans, the president of Chile, Ricardo Lagos, attended a memorial service at the United States embassy where the ambassador, William Brownfield, stated that "people [and nations] who hate the United States must be controlled, arrested or eliminated".

In what kind of a world are we living? Can we stand idly by while in the name of the fight against terrorism countries are bombed or invaded by the US war machine? [ Of course the answer is YES! ]

I think not, especially because, irrespective of the horror of the World Trade Centre attacks, the US has no moral right to impose its will on our continent. After all, we in Latin America have ample experience with US terrorist tactics.

In our continent alone 90,000 people disappeared as a direct result of the operation of the School of the Americas and US "counterinsurgency" policies - 30 times more than the victims of the World Trade Centre.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 20, 2019, 01:58:27 AM

Remembering September 11 1973

Were the lives of those killed at the World Trade Centre more valuable than the innocents murdered in Chile's US-backed coup, asks Tito Tricot

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/sep/16/pinochet.september11

Quote
The truth is that no US president ever shed a tear for our dead; no US politician ever sent a flower to our widows. The US government and media [and the American-First World Public] use different standards to measure suffering.

It is precisely this hypocrisy and these double standards that make us sick, especially when on such a symbolic day for Chileans, the president of Chile, Ricardo Lagos, attended a memorial service at the United States embassy where the ambassador, William Brownfield, stated that "people [and nations] who hate the United States must be controlled, arrested or eliminated".

In what kind of a world are we living? Can we stand idly by while in the name of the fight against terrorism countries are bombed or invaded by the US war machine? [ Of course the answer is YES! ]

I think not, especially because, irrespective of the horror of the World Trade Centre attacks, the US has no moral right to impose its will on our continent. After all, we in Latin America have ample experience with US terrorist tactics.

In our continent alone 90,000 people disappeared as a direct result of the operation of the School of the Americas and US "counterinsurgency" policies - 30 times more than the victims of the World Trade Centre.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 20, 2019, 09:02:43 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pf-tQYcZGM4
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 20, 2019, 09:27:34 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKwJI9axblQ
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 20, 2019, 09:59:57 AM
Filmed by Paul Hubbard at Massachusetts Institute of Technology on 12-15-2009 one decade ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKwJI9axblQ
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Martin Gisser on February 20, 2019, 05:40:28 PM
Trump on Venezuela, July 2017. A snippet from McCabe's recent book "The Threat" via books.google.

Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 21, 2019, 04:21:38 AM
imho a video of the DPB should be published in full no later than 48 hours after is had on the Comedy Channel.

The world would be a safer place if the people got to hear the ludicrously insane things delivered to the President, their comments and the responses from NDI that ensue.

It would also help if the people of the world got to hear the true things disclosed to the president by the NDI as well as the made up bullshit he gets to hear.

Yeah I am a genuine cynic on these matters but for very good rational reasons. :)
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 21, 2019, 04:22:29 AM
imho a video of the DPB should be published in full no later than 48 hours after is had on the Comedy Channel.

The world would be a safer place if the people got to hear the ludicrously insane things delivered to the President, their comments and the responses from NDI that ensue.

It would also help if the people of the world got to hear the true things disclosed to the president by the NDI as well as the made up bullshit he gets to hear.

Yeah I am a genuine cynic on these matters but for very good rational reasons. :)
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 22, 2019, 01:33:19 AM
Trump on Venezuela, July 2017. A snippet from McCabe's recent book "The Threat" via books.google.

Jimmy Dore picks up the same quote by Trump in McCabes book via Aaron Mate

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qr-iMLluTlw
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 22, 2019, 01:35:04 AM
Trump on Venezuela, July 2017. A snippet from McCabe's recent book "The Threat" via books.google.

Jimmy Dore picks up the same quote by Trump in McCabes book via Aaron Mate

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qr-iMLluTlw



08:49
Dore: "Do you see that were ruled by Psychopaths? Do you see that the news media is filled with sociopaths and narcissists? Sociopaths - they're pushing for a war in Venezuela right now in the news media after Iraq Libya Syria they're still doing that - it's never gonna stop?"

It's never gonna stop unless and until the American people and/or the global Community of nations demands that it stops and forces it to be stopped. 

Until this insane deceitful crap by the USA political system is stopped then no genuine action plans to fight AGW/CC will ever become a global harmonized campaign that can work successfully.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 22, 2019, 04:01:00 AM
But then Dore goes a little further by putting some meat on those bones and presenting a more holistic perspective placing into context what this actually means in the big scheme of things when it comes to critical warmongering regime change issues that go far beyond one dufus Presidents crazy ideas and into the extreme systemic problems in the USA and the clients states in the west overall.

Quoting Jimmy Dore here:
Quote

"I think that's interesting to say the very least. Everyone knows - like it's out in the open now - but it's somehow like no - (Democrat) Nancy Pelosi supports this cool stuff in Venezuela and pretend she's for the people.

What Nancy Pelosi's really revealing is that she's a sociopath and I'm not saying that that's not hyperbole that she's a sociopath because she knows this is the actual truth and (yet still) she's for overthrowing (the legitimate Government there),  she's for arming rebels causing a civil war, she's for all this horrible stuff and I'm not just picking out Nancy - I'm picking on her cuz she's the leader that everybody in Congress is like this with Trump pretty much -

Everybody is okay and they know that it's, they know that this is what it actually is, it's a it's a it's a grab for oil - everyone knows this except somehow the American people are still deluded because everybody on every corporate news show and lots of lefty news shows repeat the government propaganda  that's propaganda - that's called Manufacturing Consent."


Yes, the Democrats under Pelosi and Schumer are 100% behind this as much as the GOP warmongers are because the Democrat Party are as an Institution War Mongers too. It's obvious. It's provable. It's right in people's faces and yet still most refuse to see it - all they is Trump and McCabe quote from his book - they miss the rest of it. 

The MSM is 100% behind this Propaganda. The EU is 100% behind this Propaganda. Canada's Govt and Media along with NATO nations are (except for Turkey) 100% behind this Propaganda. Australia and Saudi Arabia and Israel are 100% behind this Propaganda.

Yes this old news about the Manufacturing Consent Reality:  aka The Truth
https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,2571.msg189481.html#msg189481

For even Bernie Sanders fell into line on the Venezuela issue. He had to or it would have ruined his Candidacy announcement for President where he would have had weeks of being pilloried by the Press for "defending a murderous socialist dictator" etc etc etc etc

Jimmy Dore? Yes I like him because like me he is able to capture the really important (but unstated) details and the critical Principles in the connections and interrelationships of what's going on in the now that 99% of people totally miss and almost 100% of the MSM intentionally ignore.

More refs about Manufacturing Consent if interested.
https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,2554.msg187444.html#msg187444
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 22, 2019, 04:44:06 AM
Trump on Venezuela, July 2017. A snippet from McCabe's recent book "The Threat" via books.google.

Jimmy Dore picks up the same quote by Trump in McCabes book via Aaron Mate

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qr-iMLluTlw

08:49
Dore: "Do you see that were ruled by Psychopaths? Do you see that the news media is filled with sociopaths and narcissists? Sociopaths - they're pushing for a war in Venezuela right now in the news media after Iraq Libya Syria they're still doing that - it's never gonna stop?"

It's never gonna stop unless and until the American people and/or the global Community of nations demands that it stops and forces it to be stopped. 

Until this insane deceitful crap by the USA political system is stopped then no genuine action plans to fight AGW/CC will ever become a global harmonized campaign that can work successfully.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 22, 2019, 04:48:26 AM
I appreciate what Dore does despite any failings because he goes a little further by putting some meat on those bones of the basic "news reporting"

Dore and many like him today have provide a huge Plus Element by presenting a more holistic perspective placing simple facts into context,  what these facts actually means in the big scheme of things especially when it comes to critical warmongering regime change issues that in truth go far beyond one dufus Presidents crazy ideas and into the extreme systemic problems in the USA and it's bought and paid for clients states in South America and across the world.

Quoting Jimmy Dore here:
Quote

"I think that's interesting to say the very least. Everyone knows - like it's out in the open now - but it's somehow like no - (Democrat) Nancy Pelosi supports this cool stuff in Venezuela and pretend she's for the people.

What Nancy Pelosi's really revealing is that she's a sociopath and I'm not saying that that's not hyperbole that she's a sociopath because she knows this is the actual truth and (yet still) she's for overthrowing (the legitimate Government there),  she's for arming rebels causing a civil war, she's for all this horrible stuff and I'm not just picking out Nancy - I'm picking on her cuz she's the leader that everybody in Congress is like this with Trump pretty much -

Everybody is okay and they know that it's, they know that this is what it actually is, it's a it's a it's a grab for oil - everyone knows this except somehow the American people are still deluded because everybody on every corporate news show and lots of lefty news shows repeat the government propaganda  that's propaganda - that's called Manufacturing Consent."


Yes, the Democrats under Pelosi and Schumer are 100% behind this as much as the GOP warmongers are because the Democrat Party are as an Institution of Sociopathic War Mongers too. It's obvious. It's provable. It's right in people's faces and yet still most refuse to see it - all they see is Trump and a short McCabe quote from his book - most people miss the rest of it - they cannot see it - they cannot be told. 

The MSM is 100% behind this Propaganda. The EU is 100% behind this Propaganda. Canada's Govt and Media along with NATO nations are (except for Turkey) 100% behind this Propaganda. Australia and Saudi Arabia and Israel are 100% behind this Propaganda.

Yes this is old news about the Manufacturing Consent Reality:  aka The Truth and Jimmy Dore is spot on for raising it and going ballistic about it. 
https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,2571.msg189481.html#msg189481

For even Bernie Sanders fell into line on the Venezuela issue. He had to or it would have ruined his Candidacy announcement for President where he would have had weeks of being pilloried by the Press for "defending a murderous socialist dictator" etc etc etc etc

Jimmy Dore? Yes I like him because like me he is able to capture the really important (but unstated) details and the critical Principles in the connections and interrelationships of what's going on in the now that 99% of people totally miss and almost 100% of the MSM intentionally ignore.

More refs about Manufacturing Consent if interested.
https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,2554.msg187444.html#msg187444
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: El Cid on February 22, 2019, 07:52:00 AM
The Empire vs Venezuela? Seriously?

Venezuela vs. Reason
Venezuela vs. its own people
Socialism still doesn't work

These 3 are the real subjects, not the above

I am truly amazed by the spread of socilaism in the West especially amongst the youth. It can only happen to those who did not live in a totalitarian-socialist/communist regime. I did. I know how terrible it is and why it does not work. We had a joke: "Introduce socialism in the Sahara and soon sand will be in short supply". These regimes ALWAYS destroy human dignity, lead to opression, suffering, and lowered living standards. I can not comprehend how anyone can take the side of Maduro (Chavez).

The West has lived too well for too long. You do not appreciate what you have, that is why you will lose it and be sorry afterwards but it will be too late by then. Witness the stupidity of Trump and Brexit - the writing is on the wall.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: b_lumenkraft on February 22, 2019, 10:10:37 AM
Hey El Cid,

may i ask you, do you see any responsibility on the American side at all?

I mean are US sanctions and interference not affecting the situation of Venezuela in in your opinion?
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Phil42 on February 22, 2019, 10:56:15 AM
...
I am truly amazed by the spread of socilaism in the West especially amongst the youth. It can only happen to those who did not live in a totalitarian-socialist/communist regime. I did. I know how terrible it is and why it does not work. We had a joke: "Introduce socialism in the Sahara and soon sand will be in short supply". These regimes ALWAYS destroy human dignity, lead to opression, suffering, and lowered living standards. I can not comprehend how anyone can take the side of Maduro (Chavez).
...

Since I am in that exact group of young people who fight for socialism I think I should reply to this. And I don't reply to attack you, I just want to give you an insight of why I (and many many more especially in the youth) hold those beliefs.

I was born in this world which is run by an untouchable elite class, which has - during the last several decades - accumulated enough wealth (which in a capitalist system is power) to have total control over the life of the lower class, since money is something you need to survive in capitalist society. They have done this by exploiting people and the planet for the sole sake of profit. Since they are also the ones that are profiting from the status quo, they put a lot of effort into maintaining it. Therefore, nothing will fundamentally change (by which I mean that whoever is in power in this system still has the main goal of accumulating profit and staying in power).

Now, as you might understand, I don't like this. I don't like growing up on a planet that I will most likely see collapsing ecologically and economically. I don't like it that my life and future is controlled by same ultra-rich old men who are responsible for that and don't feel any effects of what they are doing to the people and the planet. And what I despise the most is that I have absolutely no ability to change that, since the capitalist system is built in a way that it can always survive by giving more and more power to the elite and smash every movement which intends to build a society without those classes through propaganda, sanctions and repression.

It's really not cool to look into a future where more and more people will suffer. And instead of collaborating and working together to fix the issues we face, I see leaders embracing nationalism and encouraging individualism. The "Fuck you I got mine" mindset is ultimately rooted in capitalism, and this just has no place if we want to keep this planet alive.

What I don't understand is why the majority of people keeps defending a system that is knowingly, actively and inevitably destroying lives, our planet and our future.


This went pretty off-topic sorry, but I just wanted to give an insight to El Cid. Now back to topic.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 22, 2019, 11:41:13 AM
This went pretty off-topic sorry

Um, no it didn't. It's 100% on topic. Thank you.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: b_lumenkraft on February 22, 2019, 01:23:11 PM
Thanks, Phil for sharing!
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: b_lumenkraft on February 22, 2019, 01:24:03 PM
An Ocean of Lies on Venezuela: Abby Martin & UN Rapporteur Expose Coup
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ii5MlQgGXyk
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: b_lumenkraft on February 22, 2019, 01:52:39 PM
Oh look what even The American Conservative has to say:

Quote
Trump is absolutely not a non-interventionist, and he sees countries rich in natural resources as desirable targets for plunder.

Link >> https://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/venezuela-and-trumps-plunder-doctrine/
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: El Cid on February 22, 2019, 02:32:14 PM
Hey El Cid,

may i ask you, do you see any responsibility on the American side at all?

I mean are US sanctions and interference not affecting the situation of Venezuela in in your opinion?

We are talking about these sanctions, just to be clear:
https://fas.org/sgp/crs/row/IF10715.pdf

Sanctions had negligible effect on what happened in Venezuela. This country was the richest Latam Country in the 70s, now they have no food, no toilet paper even. This is totally due to "21st century socialism". 
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: El Cid on February 22, 2019, 02:45:55 PM
...
I am truly amazed by the spread of socilaism in the West especially amongst the youth. It can only happen to those who did not live in a totalitarian-socialist/communist regime. I did. I know how terrible it is and why it does not work. We had a joke: "Introduce socialism in the Sahara and soon sand will be in short supply". These regimes ALWAYS destroy human dignity, lead to opression, suffering, and lowered living standards. I can not comprehend how anyone can take the side of Maduro (Chavez).
...

Since I am in that exact group of young people who fight for socialism I think I should reply to this. And I don't reply to attack you, I just want to give you an insight of why I (and many many more especially in the youth) hold those beliefs.

Phil,

I understand your anger and it is absoultely just. However, wherever/whenever we tried socialism/communism (and I lived under such a regime) it ALWAYS led to repression and suffering and low standards of living. Therefore, anyone, who studied history must understand that this is NOT the solution. And it cannot be, you can not mend the system, because it does not work the way people are working. in a socialist system, everyone owns the means of production but it actually means that noone owns them, noone gives a shit, noone wants to create anything new, noone wants to work. This is actual experience.

Social-democracy in Europe seems to be the closest to the solution (attached chart, see scandinavia: low inequality, high social mobility). The government has the tools, can create the incentives to save the world from self-destruction, eg. by a big carbon-tax, by banning plastics in most cases, by taxing air-travel, by providing subsidised housing as in Vienna for example, by banning offshore companies, by increasing the inheritance tax, by closing loopholes and so on and on. Even a huge "Green New Deal" is possible within a social-democracy, and let's not forget that in the 1940s the top US tax rate was 94% if I remember well!

We need evolution not revolution and certainly not 21st century socialism
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: SteveMDFP on February 22, 2019, 04:01:10 PM


Social-democracy in Europe seems to be the closest to the solution (attached chart, see scandinavia: low inequality, high social mobility). The government has the tools, can create the incentives to save the world from self-destruction, 

I think most here would agree with this portion.
But terminology is tricky, and can lead to pointless arguments.
The communist regimes weren't awful because of "socialism," they were awful mostly because of one-party, authoritarian rule.  Extending authoritarian rule into the economy tends toward "totalitarian." 

In the US, we don't have "social democrats," we have "democratic socialists."  Same thing, as far as I can tell.  And an unfortunate choice of label in the US.
So, in the US, if one denounces "socialism," one is including democratic socialism.

Seems plain to me that pure socialism is just as inhumane and intolerable as pure capitalism. Any rational, humane, sustainable system is going to have elements of both.

Finding the golden mean on a global scale can be viewed as our great current challenge.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: El Cid on February 22, 2019, 04:24:20 PM
Steve,

I fully agree with you
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 23, 2019, 02:45:54 AM
Steve,

I fully agree with you

Then why the hell did you yourself NOT make that clear in the first place yourself? Please do not hijack the thread I started with bs arguments about the meaning of a word! iow get your facts right the first time.

For the record Venezuela is no less democratic socialist, no less a working Democracy with checks and balances operating under the Rule of Law as those in the bottom left of your graph ... Norway, Denmark, Finland, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Germany, France, Spain, or Singapore.

It simply has only had 20 years to try and refloat the boat whereas the above have been at it a lot longer. So give them a break.

I bet my house those friends of Sterks from Venezuela are not brown or black, doh!

Sanctions had negligible effect on what happened in Venezuela. This country was the richest Latam Country in the 70s, now they have no food, no toilet paper even. This is totally due to "21st century socialism". 

That's an opinion not founded in facts or the truth of it. Please educate yourself better, including the long history pre-Chavez, and please stop repeating the mindless Memes of the Mega Rich. It's not 1970 any more. It's as rich as it has ever been.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 23, 2019, 03:04:56 AM
What are the similarities between Oil rich Venezuela and Oil rich Saudi Arabia?

1) The Government owns the Oil on behalf of the People
2) The Government has Contracts with multi-national Oil Companies to extract and export that Oil

What are the differences?

1) Saudi Arabia is a Totalitarian Socialist Regime with a totally Government controlled Economy and Society.
2) Venezuela is a Democratic Socialist elected Government with a Capitalist Economic System
3) The USA does NOT have Sanctions or Financial Embargoes on Saudi Arabia, it does on Venezuela
4) The USA is NOT trying to bring Regime Change to the Saudi Government it is doing that to Venezuelan Government.
5) The USA is NOT trying to "steal" the Oil wealth from the people of Saudi Arabia - it is doing that to the people of Venezuela.

These things are overt and obvious to most and yet some are incredibly deluded about these comparative facts. They swallow whole what they are being told without a rational thought occurring in their heads.

They typically lack solid Principles, Morals, Ethics, Empathy, Wisdom and Accurate Complete Information imho. 

The US Government lies repeatedly. That is a fact. Why do people still believe what they say - even when it's Trump, Bolton, Pence and Pompeo doing the talking? That is the mystery answer!!!
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: zizek on February 23, 2019, 03:09:07 AM
This forum is infected with crotchey old conservatives spreading nonsense propaganda. Like clockwork, every thread that challenges the status quo, some geezer comes in here parroting garbage they heard from Raegan.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 23, 2019, 03:11:57 AM
What are the similarities between Oil rich Venezuela and Oil rich Saudi Arabia?

1) The Government owns the Oil on behalf of the People
2) The Government has Contracts with multi-national Oil Companies to extract and export that Oil

What are the differences?

1) Saudi Arabia is a Totalitarian Socialist Regime with a totally Government controlled Economy and Society.
2) Venezuela is a Democratic Socialist elected Government with a Capitalist Economic System
3) The USA does NOT have Sanctions or Financial Embargoes on Saudi Arabia, it does on Venezuela
4) The USA is NOT trying to bring Regime Change to the Saudi Government it is doing that to Venezuelan Government.
5) The USA is NOT trying to "steal" the Oil wealth from the people of Saudi Arabia - it is doing that to the people of Venezuela.

These things are overt and obvious to most and yet some are incredibly deluded about these comparative facts. They swallow whole what they are being told without a rational thought occurring in their heads.

They typically lack solid Principles, Morals, Ethics, Empathy, Wisdom and Accurate Complete Information imho. 

The US Government lies repeatedly. That is a fact. Why do people still believe what they say - even when it's Trump, Bolton, Pence and Pompeo doing the talking?

That is the big mystery answer!!!
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: zizek on February 23, 2019, 04:08:47 AM
Saudi Arabia is not socialist. Same way the Nazi Germany was not socialist. A major tenet of socialism is the democratic ownership of the means of production. Even though the governments managed their economy to a significant degree, it was done so to benefit only a certain class.  Places like Saudi Arabia have an ethnic underclass that are treated in slave-like condition, and have absolutely no control of the outcomes of their labor.

When a government plays a strong role in managing it's economy, and uses violence to create a permanent underclass, then it is a fascist government.

In the case of Venezuela, it is a social democratic economy. The hilarious irony Cid complaining about socialism and boasting about the social democracy in Europe, is that Venezuela has a lower tax rate than places like Norway. The rich in Venezuala still control much of the countries resources and economic infrastructure. In fact, one of the major reasons for food crisis is that the wealthy still control much of the countries food distribution, and are uses their power to starve her citizens in the hope to oust Maduro. The funny thing is, had Maduro and Chavez actually ruled as authoritarians and seized private companies assets, they would likely have a better chance of distributing the food.

The thing about Venezuela is that Chavez committed the ultimate sin of nationalizing it's Oil resources. Which isn't atypical in the context of other western countries such as Norway or France. But the problem is that Venezuela did this in United States's playground for violence and terror - The Americas.

We could have an incredibly shallow discussion about socialism and capitalism with goofballs like Cid. But that would distract us from the real reasons Venezuela is in crisis. Is how the United States engages in economic warfare and uses illegal tactics to promote instability within Venezuela.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 23, 2019, 04:36:56 AM
Saudi Arabia is not socialist.

Merely trying to emphasise the distortions of this word and how easily and how often it is manipulated by TPTB and the hoi polloi. Applying "their" standards for "socialism" to Saudi Arabia (imho) shows up the ludicrous illogical basis of their claims against Venezuela's Govt and all the Chavistas in the land.

I did say "totalitarian socialist" in order to emphasise my point. :)

Quote

 Is how the United States engages in economic warfare and uses illegal tactics to promote instability within Venezuela. 


Indeed. They are not the first they will not be the last while so many in the West keep swallowing the lies so readily. The Conditioning is Strong. The Emotional Triggers are red raw in some, with the Cognitive Dissonance overpowering.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 23, 2019, 04:52:26 AM
Saudi Arabia is not socialist.

Merely trying to emphasise the distortions of this word and how easily and how often it is manipulated by TPTB and the hoi polloi. Applying "their" standards for "socialism" to Saudi Arabia (imho) shows up the ludicrous illogical basis of their claims against Venezuela's Govt and all the Chavistas in the land.

I did say "totalitarian socialist" in order to emphasise my point. :)

Quote

 Is how the United States engages in economic warfare and uses illegal tactics to promote instability within Venezuela. 


Indeed. They are not the first they will not be the last while so many in the West keep swallowing the lies so readily. The Conditioning is Strong. The Emotional Triggers are red raw in some, with the Cognitive Dissonance overpowering.

I did forget another comparison: Saudi Arabia murders Journalists. Chavez and Maduro do not.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: El Cid on February 23, 2019, 08:34:09 AM
"For the record Venezuela is no less democratic socialist, no less a working Democracy with checks and balances operating under the Rule of Law as those in the bottom left of your graph ... Norway, Denmark, Finland, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Germany, France, Spain, or Singapore. "

OMG. OMG. OMG.

Venezuela is a dictatorship (a lame one at that though). The reason they do not have food but have zillion percent inflation is their "21st century socialism". When the government regulates prices below the cost of production and people have no incentive to work, the result is a shortage and inflation. I am amazed. We tried this in Eastern Europe (also in Russia and China and Cuba and N.Korea) with the same results everywhere but people still do not learn. I am sorry to disturb your dilusions, I promise I won't do it anymore. Have you lived in a country like me, you wouldn't need those history lessons because you would have first hand experience. I promise to leave your thread to you and your brave fight against the Empire. viva la revolucion!
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 23, 2019, 08:49:27 AM
Pierre Omidyar’s Funding of Pro-Regime-Change Networks and Partnerships with CIA Cutouts
February 20th, 2019

"To [Omidyar] it’s … about … integrating things together to give technocrats, business executives and government officials a God’s-eye view of the world — to manage and control society more efficiently.” — Yasha Levine, author of “Surveillance Valley: The Military History of the Internet”
by Alexander Rubinstein and Max Blumenthal

https://www.mintpressnews.com/pierre-omidyar-funding-of-pro-regime-change-networks-and-partnerships-with-cia-cutouts/255337/ 

(https://cdni.rt.com/files/2019.02/original/5c708568fc7e9361148b4603.png)


Ambassador Samantha Power: "And through his example, George has given definition to what it means to be a modern philanthropist, to be a doer, paving the way for Bill and Melinda Gates, Warren Buffet, Pam and Pierre Omidyar, and others. George was first."
http://web.archive.org/web/20160314205902/http://usun.state.gov/remarks/5869


How One of America’s Premier Data Monarchs is Funding a Global Information War and Shaping the Media Landscape
February 18th, 2019

Through his purchase of influence over the daily flow of information to American media consumers, a dizzying array of connections to the national security state, and a media empire that shields him from critical scrutiny, Pierre Omidyar has become one of the world’s most politically sophisticated data monarchs.
by Alexander Rubinstein and Max Blumenthal

https://www.mintpressnews.com/ebay-founder-pierre-omidyar-is-funding-a-global-media-information-war/255199/
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 23, 2019, 10:17:45 AM
"For the record Venezuela is no less democratic socialist, no less a working Democracy with checks and balances operating under the Rule of Law as those in the bottom left of your graph ... Norway, Denmark, Finland, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Germany, France, Spain, or Singapore. "

OMG. OMG. OMG.

Venezuela is a dictatorship (a lame one at that though).
(sigh)

Quote
The reason they do not have food but have zillion percent inflation is their "21st century socialism". When the government regulates prices below the cost of production and people have no incentive to work, the result is a shortage and inflation.

Unfortunate for you the Venezuelan Government does not regulate prices.

Quote
I am amazed. We tried this in Eastern Europe (also in Russia and China and Cuba and N.Korea) with the same results everywhere but people still do not learn.

Unfortunately for you Venezuela is not the USSR,China, Cuba or North Korea.

Quote
I am sorry to disturb your dilusions, I promise I won't do it anymore.


Ah huh?

Quote
Have you lived in a country like me, you wouldn't need those history lessons because you would have first hand experience. I promise to leave your thread to you and your brave fight against the Empire. viva la revolucion!

I was thinking of my own experiences earlier today. I lived in a Gerrymandered State which for 27 years during the first half of my life elected a Government Party that was lucky to get 30% of the popular vote.  Eventually street marches were banned, protests were banned, and in at every election cycle the Premier and Govt ministers would trot out the usual rhetoric of "Reds under the Bed" and that "the Unions would be the death of us all."

Journalists and political activists or people who just could not stomach the lack of freedoms and the corruption any more were forced to move interstate or go overseas. Illegal Casinos and Brothels thrived thanks to the support of the Corrupt Police force who acted with immunity at all kinds of levels. Police Special Branch had a dossier on every "political threat" to the ruling Government of the day and they proceeded to use that for blackmail, threats and discrediting sources via the complicit news media who would willingly (or from threats) turn blind eye to the decades of fraud, corruption, graft and injustices going on. Or they framed them for crimes they never committed and got them thrown in Prison for years. Where their criminal accomplices would keep them in line or murder them if they were a real threat to the Power running the Parliament and the Police Force.

Money for special favours was delivered regularly to Government Ministers in "brown paper bags" to be put in a desk draw until they needed it for some other deal.

Are you talking about  these kinds of "history lessons"?
It went on for 27 years. My State was the laughing tock of the rest of the nation who both thought we were totally dumb halfwits and living 20 years ago in the past at least!

The Federal Government did nothing. The other States did nothing. No one in Europe or the USA was calling for a regime change despite what was patently obvious - ruled by an undemocratic Mafia network.

By the time it fell due to first a Media expose and people who literally risked their lives to be whistle blowers several of the Ministers and Police leadership ended up in Prison. The Premier almost did too but even the Jury at his criminal trial was able to be corrupted so he got off. It took more than a decade to clean out the garbage that had accumulated and I am referring to "people" in responsible positions in the Judiciary, the Police, Business, the Media, and the Public Service.

My father was one of those IDIOTS who kept voting for this Government every single election. He and millions of others should have, imho, also been Imprisoned too for at least a Year for being rank assholes, gullible fools, and callous morons. Sound familiar?

Oh where was that? Queensland Australia the late 1950s to August 1988.

They called it The Police State!

So if Chavez and Maduro are "dictators" then I will tell you this. They are the most incompetent Dictators ever to be put on the earth. They cannot even do the most simplest obvious things that a Dictator would put in place.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 23, 2019, 10:27:24 AM
"For the record Venezuela is no less democratic socialist, no less a working Democracy with checks and balances operating under the Rule of Law as those in the bottom left of your graph ... Norway, Denmark, Finland, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Germany, France, Spain, or Singapore. "

OMG. OMG. OMG.

Venezuela is a dictatorship (a lame one at that though).
(sigh)

Quote
The reason they do not have food but have zillion percent inflation is their "21st century socialism". When the government regulates prices below the cost of production and people have no incentive to work, the result is a shortage and inflation.

Unfortunate for you the Venezuelan Government does not regulate prices.

Quote
I am amazed. We tried this in Eastern Europe (also in Russia and China and Cuba and N.Korea) with the same results everywhere but people still do not learn.

Unfortunately for you Venezuela is not the USSR,China, Cuba or North Korea.

Quote
I am sorry to disturb your dilusions, I promise I won't do it anymore.


Ah huh?

Quote
Have you lived in a country like me, you wouldn't need those history lessons because you would have first hand experience. I promise to leave your thread to you and your brave fight against the Empire. viva la revolucion!

I was thinking of my own experiences earlier today. I lived in a Gerrymandered State which for 27 years during the first half of my life elected a Government Party that was lucky to get 30% of the popular vote.  Eventually street marches were banned, protests were banned, and in at every election cycle the Premier and Govt ministers would trot out the usual rhetoric of "Reds under the Bed" and that "the Unions would be the death of us all."

Journalists and political activists or people who just could not stomach the lack of freedoms and the corruption any more were forced to move interstate or go overseas. Illegal Casinos and Brothels thrived thanks to the support of the Corrupt Police force who acted with immunity at all kinds of levels. Police Special Branch had a dossier on every "political threat" to the ruling Government of the day and they proceeded to use that for blackmail, threats and discrediting sources via the complicit news media who would willingly (or from threats) turn blind eye to the decades of fraud, corruption, graft and injustices going on. Or they framed them for crimes they never committed and got them thrown in Prison for years. Where their criminal accomplices would keep them in line or murder them if they were a real threat to the Power running the Parliament and the Police Force.

Money for special favours was delivered regularly to Government Ministers in "brown paper bags" to be put in a desk draw until they needed it for some other deal.

Are you talking about  these kinds of "history lessons"?
It went on for 27 years. My State was the laughing tock of the rest of the nation who both thought we were totally dumb halfwits and living 20 years ago in the past at least!

The Federal Government did nothing. The other States did nothing. No one in Europe or the USA was calling for a regime change despite what was patently obvious - ruled by an undemocratic Mafia network.

By the time it fell due to first a Media expose and people who literally risked their lives to be whistle blowers several of the Ministers and Police leadership ended up in Prison. The Premier almost did too but even the Jury at his criminal trial was able to be corrupted so he got off. It took more than a decade to clean out the garbage that had accumulated and I am referring to "people" in responsible positions in the Judiciary, the Police, Business, the Media, and the Public Service.

My father was one of those IDIOTS who kept voting for this Government every single election. He and millions of others should have, imho, also been Imprisoned too for at least a Year for being rank assholes, gullible fools, and callous morons. Sound familiar?

Oh where was that? Queensland Australia the late 1950s to August 1988.

They called it The Police State! Those with money did really really well under this Regime.

So if Chavez and Maduro are "dictators" then I will tell you this. They are the most incompetent Dictators ever to be put on the earth. They cannot even do the most simplest obvious things that a Dictator would put in place.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 23, 2019, 10:46:53 AM
"For the record Venezuela is no less democratic socialist, no less a working Democracy with checks and balances operating under the Rule of Law as those in the bottom left of your graph ... Norway, Denmark, Finland, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Germany, France, Spain, or Singapore. "

OMG. OMG. OMG.

Venezuela is a dictatorship (a lame one at that though).
(sigh)

Quote
The reason they do not have food but have zillion percent inflation is their "21st century socialism". When the government regulates prices below the cost of production and people have no incentive to work, the result is a shortage and inflation.

Unfortunate for you the Venezuelan Government does not regulate prices.

Quote
I am amazed. We tried this in Eastern Europe (also in Russia and China and Cuba and N.Korea) with the same results everywhere but people still do not learn.

Unfortunately for you Venezuela is not the USSR,China, Cuba or North Korea.

Quote
I am sorry to disturb your dilusions, I promise I won't do it anymore.


Ah huh?

Quote
Have you lived in a country like me, you wouldn't need those history lessons because you would have first hand experience. I promise to leave your thread to you and your brave fight against the Empire. viva la revolucion!

I was thinking of my own experiences earlier today. I lived in a Gerrymandered State which for 27 years during the first half of my life elected a Government Party that was lucky to get 30% of the popular vote.  Eventually street marches were banned, protests were banned, and in at every election cycle the Premier and Govt ministers would trot out the usual rhetoric of "Reds under the Bed" and that "the Unions would be the death of us all."

Journalists and political activists or people who just could not stomach the lack of freedoms and the corruption any more were forced to move interstate or go overseas. Illegal Casinos and Brothels thrived thanks to the support of the Corrupt Police force who acted with immunity at all kinds of levels. Abortion was illegal, Federal funding of Hospitals and other services was misappropriated/misused to "balance the books", racism was rampant, oppression of Gays was brutal, children would get threatened beaten the shit out of by Police and dropped on the outskirts of cities to find their way home. Women pulled over by Police in traffic stops and teens girls were raped and still nothing was done, one of the most celebrated paedophiles was the PR face of the Police Department and the nephew of the Police Commissioner who ended up in Prison .. actually they both did - but more than a decade too late!

Police Special Branch had a dossier on every "political threat" to the ruling Government of the day and they proceeded to use that for blackmail, threats and discrediting sources via the complicit news media who would willingly (or from threats) turn blind eye to the decades of fraud, corruption, graft and injustices going on. Or they framed them for crimes they never committed and got them thrown in Prison for years. Where their criminal accomplices would keep them in line or murder them if they were a real threat to the Power running the Parliament and the Police Force.

Money for special favours was delivered regularly to Government Ministers in "brown paper bags" to be put in a desk draw until they needed it for some other deal.

Are you talking about  these kinds of "history lessons"?
It went on for 27 years. My State was the laughing tock of the rest of the nation who both thought we were totally dumb halfwits and living 20 years ago in the past at least!

The Federal Government did nothing. The other States did nothing. The Courts did nothing. No one in Europe or the USA was calling for Sanctions or Regime change or for a proper Democracy then despite what was patently obvious - ruled by an undemocratic criminal Mafia network of Politicians and Business people.

By the time it fell due to first a Media expose and people who literally risked their lives to be whistle blowers several of the Ministers and Police leadership ended up in Prison. The Premier almost did too but even the Jury at his criminal trial was able to be corrupted so he got off. It took more than a decade to clean out the garbage that had accumulated and I am referring to "people" in responsible positions in the Judiciary, the Police, Business, the Media, and the Public Service.

My father was one of those IDIOTS who kept voting for this Government every single election. He and millions of others should have, imho, also been Imprisoned too for at least a Year for being rank assholes, gullible fools, and callous morons. Sound familiar?

Oh where was that? Queensland Australia the late 1950s to August 1988.

They called it The Police State! Those with money did really really well under this Regime.

So if Chavez and Maduro are "dictators" then I will tell you this. They are the most incompetent Dictators ever to be put on the earth. They cannot even do the most simplest obvious things that a Dictator would put in place. They are amateurs!
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 23, 2019, 10:52:22 AM
‘People who hate Maduro often need humanitarian aid the least’ – Max Blumenthal

The fake figure of "3 million refugees" who have left are both white and rich.

Investigating Venezuela's 'humanitarian crisis': Max Blumenthal tours a supermarket in Caracas

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbXqGiNlWWw


Could Max Blumenthal be lying? Is his video a Fake News event?

Is Max Blumenthal a Totalitarian Communist flunky who has sold his soul to Lenin?

Or does he simply love shopping? :)

OMG OMG OMG there is toilet paper, napkins, toothbrushes and toothpaste, wine and beer, fruit and vegs, cheese and milk in Caracas Venezuela after all.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 23, 2019, 11:03:52 AM
Bias and black humour alert, this is from Lee Camp and RT

Everyone has fallen for the lies about Venezuela


There are three things that seem to provoke the ornery United States into overthrowing or bringing down a foreign government, no matter how many innocent civilians may die in the process.

1. Being socialist.

Pretty self-explanatory. If you don’t have the same economic system as we do, we treat it like you have candy and we’re not allowed to have any, so we slip razor blades in yours and tell everyone your candy kills people.

2. Dropping the US dollar.

Iraq dropped the dollar. We invaded.

Syria dropped the dollar. We invaded.

Iran dropped the dollar. We want to invade.

Libya planned to drop the dollar. We invaded.

Pakistan dropped the dollar in trade with China, and the US added them to the list of countries violating religious freedom. (I guess you could argue they did indeed violate our religion: The dollar.)

Basically, we do NOT take kindly to countries dropping the dollar.

In unrelated news, Venezuela dropped the dollar.

3. Having oil or other natural resources the US needs.

In case you were curious, Venezuela has the largest oil reserves in the known world. (But we haven’t checked northern Wyoming yet, because it’s a long, cold drive with nary a 7-11.)

https://www.rt.com/op-ed/452176-venezuela-resources-us-lies/

China, Russia, Turkey, India and many others are also establishing other bilateral arrangements already and setting up alt avenues including selling their US Bonds and buying up Gold stocks as they prepare to dump the USD and prepare for what comes next.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 24, 2019, 04:16:28 AM
"For the record Venezuela is no less democratic socialist, no less a working Democracy with checks and balances operating under the Rule of Law as those in the bottom left of your graph ... Norway, Denmark, Finland, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Germany, France, Spain, or Singapore. "

OMG. OMG. OMG.

Venezuela is a dictatorship (a lame one at that though).
(sigh)



Are you talking about  these kinds of "history lessons"?
It went on for 27 years. My State was the laughing stock of the rest of the nation who both thought we were totally dumb halfwits and living 20 years ago in the past at least!


What's the Moral of the Story of My History Lesson?

It's about corruption, fraud, manipulated elections. It's about Government lies and collusion by the media and business classes. It's about "conditioning" of the populace and "scare mongering" deceptions.

It's about gaslighting individuals, activist groups, Unions and whole nations by misusing "words and labels" to push the emotional buttons of those who do not have a clue what is really going on in their own society or those of others - but insist on living in the past and assuming they must be right about today too.

It's about how the majority in a society fail to recognise what is right in front of their faces because they are not directly impacted by the frauds, the lies, the corruption or the abuse or the lack of rights and freedoms other citizens systemically suffer from.

It's not about what might be or not happening in Venezuela - the history lesson is instead about what IS happening now in the USA and in the compliant Western sphere for decades.

And how the majority are kept in state of conditioned ignorance, delusions and complacency by Political leaders, Government Offcials, and especially the Media ... as reflected in the comments by El Cid and Sterks above.

It's about how the majority cannot tell the difference between what might have happened in the USSR / North Korea systems and what is the reality in Venezuela, Nicaragua and Cuba as well as in Iran, Syria and Russia today and many other places.

JUst use the right TRIGGER WORDS and the desired effect is created in people's minds. Objective Facts and the whole Truth do not ever play a role when people choose what they want to beloieve.

There is another recent worse example of what happened in Queensland in the 2018 Malayasian Elections. A Party that had held power as the Government since Independence in the late 1950s was finally toppled. Despite the Gerrymandered electoral system, despite Government control and coercion of the Media and despite all the black mail, the bribes, the corruption, the frauds, threats and abuse and jailing of "dissidents" and non-stop abuse of human rights by the police and secret services to protect those in the Ruling Party Regime

Quote
In an unprecedented victory, the Pakatan Harapan (PH) coalition, which had been the country's federal Opposition prior to the election, won a simple majority in the Dewan Rakyat together with the Sabah Heritage Party (WARISAN), with both PH and WARISAN cumulatively securing 121 seats.

The election heralded the first regime change in Malaysia's history, as the erstwhile ruling Barisan Nasional (BN) coalition, which had enjoyed an uninterrupted reign over the country since Malaya's independence in 1957, was voted out of power

Following the election, Prime Minister Mahathir secured a royal pardon for the jailed PH Leader, Anwar Ibrahim, and has indicated that he would give way to the latter within the next few years. Meanwhile, Najib resigned as BN's chairman on 12 May and was succeeded as the Leader of the Opposition by his party colleague, Ahmad Zahid Hamidi. Investigations within Malaysia into the Malaysia Development Berhad (1MDB) scandal, which had been halted during Najib's tenure, were resumed in the aftermath of the election, resulting in several ongoing criminal indictments against the former Prime Minister.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Malaysian_general_election

If you are not aware of what went own in Malaysia in the most recent decade you would be wise to learn about it in detail!

To summarize Mahathir had led the establishment Party for decades and is a former Prime Minister who resigned years ago due to age. He's now in his 90s!!! He came back to lead the Opposition, in cooperation with Anwar Ibrahim his former Deputy in BN who he had jailed twice (or is it 3 times) on trumped charges of Sodomy. Mahathir, Ibrahim (still in jail at that time) and many others formed a coalition to oust the corrupt Government party - to RESTORE DEMOCRACY and get rid of the CORRUPTION across SOCIETY, GOVT AGENCIES,  and in the MEDIA - with the help of a mass movement of the people - despite the manipulations of the electoral processes in place.

How is that for a History Lesson? :)

The key difference I can see between what's happened in Malaysia for 60 years and what's being happening in the USA (and especially it's corrosive manipulative dishonest influence in the western democracies) is that in the USA they have TWO corrupt fraudulent lying Political Parties who run the Governments there.... and the majority of the population are either actively complicit in that or complacent. 

Rules to have a successful happy life:

Rule #1 - Never believe proven habitual liars.

No matter how convincing their next Lie may sound to you.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 24, 2019, 04:25:04 AM
"For the record Venezuela is no less democratic socialist, no less a working Democracy with checks and balances operating under the Rule of Law as those in the bottom left of your graph ... Norway, Denmark, Finland, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Germany, France, Spain, or Singapore. "

OMG. OMG. OMG.

Venezuela is a dictatorship (a lame one at that though).
(sigh)



Are you talking about  these kinds of "history lessons"?
It went on for 27 years. My State was the laughing stock of the rest of the nation who both thought we were totally dumb halfwits and living 20 years ago in the past at least!


What's the Moral of the Story of My History Lesson?

It's about corruption, fraud, manipulated elections. It's about Government lies and collusion by the media and business classes. It's about "conditioning" of the populace and "scare mongering" deceptions.

It's about gaslighting individuals, activist groups, Unions and whole nations by misusing "words and labels" to push the emotional buttons of those who do not have a clue what is really going on in their own society or those of others - but insist on living in the past and assuming they must be right about today too.

It's about how the majority in a society fail to recognise what is right in front of their faces because they are not directly impacted by the frauds, the lies, the corruption or the abuse or the lack of rights and freedoms other citizens systemically suffer from.

It's not about what might be or not happening in Venezuela - the history lesson is instead about what IS happening now in the USA and in the compliant Western sphere for decades.

And how the majority are kept in state of conditioned ignorance, delusions and complacency by Political leaders, Government Offcials, and especially the Media ... as reflected in the comments by El Cid and Sterks above.

It's about how the majority cannot tell the difference between what might have happened in the USSR / North Korea systems and what is the reality in Venezuela, Nicaragua and Cuba as well as in Iran, Syria and Russia today and many other places.

JUst use the right TRIGGER WORDS and the desired effect is created in people's minds. Objective Facts and the whole Truth do not ever play a role when people choose what they want to beloieve.

There is another recent worse example of what happened in Queensland in the 2018 Malayasian Elections. A Party that had held power as the Government since Independence in the late 1950s was finally toppled. Despite the Gerrymandered electoral system, despite Government control and coercion of the Media and despite all the black mail, the bribes, the corruption, the frauds, threats and abuse and jailing of "dissidents" and non-stop abuse of human rights by the police and secret services to protect those in the Ruling Party Regime

Quote
In an unprecedented victory, the Pakatan Harapan (PH) coalition, which had been the country's federal Opposition prior to the election, won a simple majority in the Dewan Rakyat together with the Sabah Heritage Party (WARISAN), with both PH and WARISAN cumulatively securing 121 seats.

The election heralded the first regime change in Malaysia's history, as the erstwhile ruling Barisan Nasional (BN) coalition, which had enjoyed an uninterrupted reign over the country since Malaya's independence in 1957, was voted out of power

Following the election, Prime Minister Mahathir secured a royal pardon for the jailed PH Leader, Anwar Ibrahim, and has indicated that he would give way to the latter within the next few years. Meanwhile, Najib resigned as BN's chairman on 12 May and was succeeded as the Leader of the Opposition by his party colleague, Ahmad Zahid Hamidi. Investigations within Malaysia into the Malaysia Development Berhad (1MDB) scandal, which had been halted during Najib's tenure, were resumed in the aftermath of the election, resulting in several ongoing criminal indictments against the former Prime Minister.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Malaysian_general_election

If you are not aware of what went own in Malaysia in the most recent decade you would be wise to learn about it in detail!

To summarize Mahathir had led the establishment Party for decades and is a former Prime Minister who resigned years ago due to age. He's now in his 90s!!! He came back to lead the Opposition, in cooperation with Anwar Ibrahim his former Deputy in BN who he had jailed twice (or is it 3 times) on trumped charges of Sodomy. Mahathir, Ibrahim (still in jail at that time) and many others formed a coalition to oust the corrupt Government party - to RESTORE DEMOCRACY and get rid of the CORRUPTION across SOCIETY, GOVT AGENCIES,  and in the MEDIA - with the help of a mass movement of the people - despite the manipulations of the electoral processes in place.

The EU and the United States of America; neither Obama, Trump, or Sec Clinton, not Bolton, Pompeo, Abrams, McCain, or Graham SAVED the poor downtrodden people of Malaysia from their Corrupt Undemocratic Regime or fix their Fraudulent Election System.

They did not place any sanctions or trade embargoes upon Malaysian Government, didn't stop them exporting computers and electronic to the USA to sell, and this despite everything they knew about that Corruption, Human Rights Abuses, the Govt control of the Media, and the Anti-Democratic Anti-Freedom reality there.

How is that for a History Lesson? :)

The key difference I can see between what's happened in Malaysia for 60 years and what's being happening in the USA (and especially it's corrosive manipulative dishonest influence in the western democracies) is that in the USA they have TWO corrupt fraudulent lying Political Parties who run the Governments there.... and the majority of the population are either actively complicit in that or complacent. 

Rules to have a successful happy life:

Rule #1 - Never believe Narcissists who are already proven to be habitual liars.

No matter how convincing their next Lie may sound to you. Because narcissistic habitual Liars know how to push your emotional buttons in order to manipulate YOU into believing them again!
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 24, 2019, 04:33:20 AM
"For the record Venezuela is no less democratic socialist, no less a working Democracy with checks and balances operating under the Rule of Law as those in the bottom left of your graph ... Norway, Denmark, Finland, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Germany, France, Spain, or Singapore. "

OMG. OMG. OMG.

Venezuela is a dictatorship (a lame one at that though).
(sigh)



Are you talking about  these kinds of "history lessons"?
It went on for 27 years. My State was the laughing stock of the rest of the nation who both thought we were totally dumb halfwits and living 20 years ago in the past at least!


What's the Moral of the Story of My History Lesson?

It's about corruption, fraud, manipulated elections. It's about Government lies and collusion by the media and business classes. It's about "conditioning" of the populace and "scare mongering" deceptions.

It's about gaslighting individuals, activist groups, Unions and whole nations by misusing "words and labels" to push the emotional buttons of those who do not have a clue what is really going on in their own society or those of others - but insist on living in the past and assuming they must be right about today too.

It's about how the majority in a society fail to recognise what is right in front of their faces because they are not directly impacted by the frauds, the lies, the corruption or the abuse or the lack of rights and freedoms other citizens systemically suffer from.

It's not about what might be or not happening in Venezuela - the history lesson is instead about what IS happening now in the USA and in the compliant Western sphere for decades.

And how the majority are kept in state of conditioned ignorance, delusions and complacency by Political leaders, Government Offcials, and especially the Media ... as reflected in the comments by El Cid and Sterks above.

It's about how the majority cannot tell the difference between what might have happened in the USSR / North Korea systems and what is the reality in Venezuela, Nicaragua and Cuba as well as in Iran, Syria and Russia today and many other places.

JUst use the right TRIGGER WORDS and the desired effect is created in people's minds. Objective Facts and the whole Truth do not ever play a role when people choose what they want to beloieve.

There is another recent worse example of what happened in Queensland in the 2018 Malayasian Elections. A Party that had held power as the Government since Independence in the late 1950s was finally toppled. Despite the Gerrymandered electoral system, despite Government control and coercion of the Media and despite all the black mail, the bribes, the corruption, the frauds, threats and abuse and jailing of "dissidents" and non-stop abuse of human rights by the police and secret services to protect those in the Ruling Party Regime

Quote
In an unprecedented victory, the Pakatan Harapan (PH) coalition, which had been the country's federal Opposition prior to the election, won a simple majority in the Dewan Rakyat together with the Sabah Heritage Party (WARISAN), with both PH and WARISAN cumulatively securing 121 seats.

The election heralded the first regime change in Malaysia's history, as the erstwhile ruling Barisan Nasional (BN) coalition, which had enjoyed an uninterrupted reign over the country since Malaya's independence in 1957, was voted out of power

Following the election, Prime Minister Mahathir secured a royal pardon for the jailed PH Leader, Anwar Ibrahim, and has indicated that he would give way to the latter within the next few years. Meanwhile, Najib resigned as BN's chairman on 12 May and was succeeded as the Leader of the Opposition by his party colleague, Ahmad Zahid Hamidi. Investigations within Malaysia into the Malaysia Development Berhad (1MDB) scandal, which had been halted during Najib's tenure, were resumed in the aftermath of the election, resulting in several ongoing criminal indictments against the former Prime Minister.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Malaysian_general_election

If you are not aware of what went own in Malaysia in the most recent decade you would be wise to learn about it in detail!

To summarize Mahathir had led the establishment Party for decades and is a former Prime Minister who resigned years ago due to age. He's now in his 90s!!! He came back to lead the Opposition, in cooperation with Anwar Ibrahim his former Deputy in BN who he had jailed twice (or is it 3 times) on trumped charges of Sodomy. Mahathir, Ibrahim (still in jail at that time) and many others formed a coalition to oust the corrupt Government party - to RESTORE DEMOCRACY and get rid of the CORRUPTION across SOCIETY, GOVT AGENCIES,  and in the MEDIA - with the help of a mass movement of the people - despite the manipulations of the electoral processes in place.

The EU and the United States of America; neither Obama, Trump, or Sec Clinton, not Bolton, Pompeo, Abrams, McCain, or Graham SAVED the poor downtrodden people of Malaysia from their Corrupt Undemocratic Regime or fix their Fraudulent Election System.

They did not place any sanctions or trade embargoes upon Malaysian Government, didn't stop them exporting computers and electronic to the USA to sell, and this despite everything they knew about that Corruption, Human Rights Abuses, the Govt control of the Media, and the Anti-Democratic Anti-Freedom reality there.

How is that for a History Lesson? :)

The key difference I can see between what's happened in Malaysia for 60 years and what's being happening in the USA (and especially it's corrosive manipulative dishonest influence in the western democracies) is that in the USA they have TWO corrupt fraudulent lying Political Parties who run the Governments there .... while the majority of the population are either actively complicit in that or complacent.

Rules to have a successful happy life:

Rule #1 - Never believe Narcissists who are already proven to be habitual liars.

No matter how convincing their next Lie may sound to you. Because narcissistic habitual Liars know how to push your emotional buttons in order to manipulate YOU into believing them again!
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 24, 2019, 05:20:51 AM
The key difference I can see between what's happened in Malaysia for 60 years and what's being happening in the USA (and especially it's corrosive manipulative dishonest influence in the western democracies) is that in the USA they have TWO corrupt fraudulent lying Political Parties who run the Governments there .... while the majority of the population are either actively complicit in that or complacent.

What the average person in the West does not want to face or learn about is that what happened in Malaysia in 2018, and what happened in Queensland in 1988, is a reflection of what happened in Venezuela in 1998 when Chavistas came to power in massive popular revolt with a coalition of political parties and activists against the Corrupt Ruling Classes, those 200 Families who owned 99% of the country and who had ruled Venezuela with a tight fist for centuries -- with the non-stop backing and support of the United States of America and her people.

Those mega wealthy 200 families, some of whom now live in Miami, Spain etc while grossly exaggerating their situation as "refugees" have wanted thing sot go back to the corrupt system they controlled before .. and so does the USA power brokers too. Both the majority of Democrats and Trump's GOP.

That there are some "electoral" problems today is not in fact the end of the world as we know it. Every nation faces these kinds of problems - jeez one only needs to look at the Gerrymandered corrupt fraudulent political system in the USA to see that.

Some continue to foolishly and ignorantly believe that it's because Venezuela has a "socialist democratic" government that the "economy' has collapsed. That's total BS. The economic system has collapsed after a decade of oppressive sanctions and interference by the 200 families and the USA whereby now Venezuela can no longer sell it's oil or refined petroleum products to the world.

The nation has had it's LEGITIMATE INCOME cut off by the USA's global threats and it's abuse of power over other nations in who they are "allowed" by the TPTB to buy their Oil from.

So how long do you think Saudi Arabia could maintain a functioning economy or Government if the whole world stopped buying it Oi exports? Immediately it would be under severe stress and with the next decade the country would be a basket case no different than Venezuela is today.

The question now comes is the misuse of the word "socialist" a bona fide excuse to strangle the death out of an entire nation?

People really need to get their heads screwed on better and stop CONFLATING the word Socialist in the USSR title with "socialist" in Venezuela and everywhere else. From Cuba to Sweden that word is NOT EQUIVALENT to North Korea, China, or the USSR!

Those people really need to stop believing all the lies put out by Trump, Bolton, Abrams, Pompeo, Clinton, Pelosi and by Canada and the EU and US Client RW States in the Americas, by the MSM but especially all the wild claims by the mega rich Venezuelan ex-pats in Miami and that lying filthy rich scumbag Juan Gerardo Guaidó Márquez!

Yes, those people really need to get their historical facts rights before saying a word and stop believing everything liars keep telling them is true when it is not the whole story. :)

OK so now this thread has been removed from the Recent Posts section on the home page, I will go back and pick out a few of the better references to this Venezuelan situation that were earlier posted to other threads. I think it would be helpful .. at least to those people willing to look at such material with an open mind and capable of still thinking objectively about it all.

Fat chance that for many. But we do what we can, don't we? :)
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 24, 2019, 06:05:09 AM
Frankly I do not care what happens in or to Venezuela btw. It's none of my business let alone my responsibility to fix.

The key issue for me is not Venezuela itself but that this issue again presents another opportunity for millions of people in and out of the USA to finally face up to and shake off their Conditioning.

It's an opportunity for people to re-evaluate, to drop their many Cultural Myths and personal Beliefs that are no longer sustainable in present time.

That those myths and beliefs they have lived their entire lives accepting as Tuisms are now far less sustainable than even BAU on this planet is Sustainable. 

Events like Venezuela then is another opportunity  for people to confront themselves and change how they think about everything now. The more who do this the better for everyone. The sooner genuine systemic changes can begin to be put in place to solve the looming global catastrophe that is AGW/CC.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 24, 2019, 08:15:48 AM
Reposts from other threads

Quote
Venezuela kicks out ‘interventionist’ team of European MPs coming to meet with Guaido
Published time: 18 Feb, 2019

 A six-member European delegation that sought to meet with self-proclaimed Venezuelan ‘interim president’ Juan Guaido is being expelled from Venezuela after being accused by Caracas of coming with “conspiratorial purposes.”

European MPs arrived in Venezuela on Sunday and were supposed to stay until Tuesday to carry out a series of meetings, including with Guaido, the leader of the opposition recognized by a number of European governments as the legitimate leader of Venezuela.
Read More: https://www.rt.com/news/451702-venezuela-delegation-mep-expelled/

The Real News Network
Published on 15 Feb 2019

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7oVD3r0VkI

Some people could be thinking, things would have better under a Hillary Clinton Democratic Party Presidency? Well think again - it's the same System in charge that's running things, including your News.
Quote
Jul 27th 2016 Clinton Emails Reveal Direct US Sabotage of Venezuela
As US Secretary of State - in the Obama Administration, Hillary Clinton led a team committed to delegitimizing the politics of the late Hugo Chavez and the Bolivarian Revolution.
https://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/12104

See original documentation at Wikileaks :)

CNN June 1, 2016 Venezuela's Maduro backs Sanders
https://edition.cnn.com/2016/06/01/politics/bernie-sanders-donald-trump-nicolas-maduro-venezuela/

Reuters June 1, 2016 / 12:02 PM / 3 years ago
Venezuela's Maduro rooting for 'revolutionary friend' Sanders in U.S. campaign
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-usa-idUSKCN0YN32Q

Then there is the Libertarian Neoliberal Right Wing Tea Party Corporate Oligarch Funded Fanatics who are always at it no matter who is the President.
 
10/12/17 Trump must deal knockout sanctions to Maduro regime
https://thehill.com/opinion/international/355213-trump-must-deal-knockout-sanction-to-maduro-regime
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 24, 2019, 08:22:36 AM
Repost of a Commentary and History Review by (ex-UK MP) George Galloway about Venezuela

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jsci1IJpG5M

A warning for America and for American Mothers everywhere by George Galloway

Quote
"Chavez supporters in Venezuela millions of them are armed. Does anybody imagine that they're just going to disappear at the first whiff of American grapeshot or do you think that in resisting Venezuela will quickly become an inferno in which blood and misery will proliferate?

That's what Donald Trump and John Bolton and Elliott Abrams the convicted criminal now in charge of the Venezuela file a convicted criminal, a man who was deeply involved with the cutting of throats of church people, of teachers, of medical workers all over Central America and who was convicted as a criminal - he wouldn't even be allowed into the United States if he were not already a US citizen.

The Gangsters that are gathered on the Potomac are threatening to open the gates of hell. Not just in Venezuela but throughout Latin America and even inside America itself.

So think carefully mothers of America. Are you ready for your son to die for John Bolton for Elliott Abrams for Donald J Trump? Think carefully the tragedy that is unfolding and has been for some years. The economic warfare, naked economic warfare in the form of sanctions, embargo, and quarantine, has already caused massive and widespread misery for the ordinary people of Venezuela.

And when these Criminals Cry their Crocodile Tears about suffering poverty hunger in Venezuela just remind yourself it was them The Crocodiles who caused it. It's them who have brought the Venezuelan economy to its knees through economic warfare through sanctions.

Something else you may not know ... George Galloway on Venezuela

Quote
"Now the Fake/Bogus President of Venezuela, he's just announced that he's thinking of opening an embassy where - well in Jerusalem of course! In occupied Jerusalem in Israel.

One of the first countries to afford the Imposter recognition and just by coincidence hundreds of Israeli soldiers arrived today in neighbouring Brazil with its long border and it's jungle between it and Venezuela.

Brazil led by a fascist Bolsanaro was one of the first to give recognition to this impostor the guy in the street in Caracas. The first thing he does is bring in the Israelis."


And because it is highly relevant to the subject matter at hand - Donald Trump and Venezuela -  let's note this: Solving Climate Change means changing 'The System' because nothing changes when nothing changes.

 
Quoting George again:
Quote
"So everybody has to pick a side here. Everybody has to decide are you with the rich Venezuelans or are you with the poor? Are you with the black Venezuelans or are you with those with gold teeth living in expensive exile (in Miami)?  Where do you stand?

I know I stand. It's not the most difficult question I've ever asked myself. They want to destroy the Bolivarian Revolution in Venezuela because they cannot bear riches and wealth being under the control of a government. An elected government, repeatedly elected government!

Chavez and Maduro have won more elections than any other politicians on the entire planet!

Elections that were judged by Jimmy Carter no less [in 2012 and before then] who won a Nobel Prize for observing other people's elections as pristine, as the best in the world.

They can't stand it the imperialists, the colonialists.  How dare these poor southerners from Latin America repeatedly elect a government that acts for the poor and acts against the interests of the rich and powerful? I don't want you to think that I have no criticisms of Nicolas Maduro and of the Venezuelan government I do but some of you won't like what those criticisms are.

I criticized both Chavez and Maduro for leaving the economy overwhelmingly in the private sector. If you own the economy you can own the politics or you can successfully use your ownership of the economy to make life impossible for the elected government.

[As happens in the United States of America]

And that's what's happening here. They describe them as a socialist country. It's not a socialist country - France is more of a socialist country than Venezuela. There's more industry economy in the hands of the state in France than there is in Venezuela.

Venezuela has a socialist government yes, but it doesn't have a socialist economy. And it should have made much more progress in taking into public hands the commanding heights of the economy and taking away the threat of the richest Venezuelans holding them to ransom, sabotage, subversion, and economic wrecking.

My second complaint is equally controversial: there is a real problem of criminality and lawlessness in Venezuela in a way that there simply isn't in Cuba, one of the safest places in the world. If you're a revolution you have to apply revolutionary tactics against criminals organized criminals or merely street thugs robbers and murderers.

Venezuela is not repressive it isn't repressive enough to the criminal classes that it should have dealt with long ago
.

[As has not happened in the United States of America either.]

And thirdly I have real criticisms of corruption in certain elements in Venezuela. It is not possible to be a socialist government and to allow corruption to flourish underneath you. This demands revolutionary rigour to root out corruption and to deal in the most serious possible way with the corrupt elements that are poisoning the well in your society.

[ As has not happened in the United States of America either. How do you think Donald Trump got elected? Sheer Luck? ] 

Now I've been saying this for some time and it hurts me to have to say it again but I tell you this if you are asking me to choose between Donald Trump, John Bolton and Eliot Abrams or whoever is nobody knows their names who run the European Parliament, or whoever is that's running the European Union,  or Teresa May or Jeremy Hunt, if you ask me to choose between them and Hugo Chavez and Nicolas Maduro ... well that's another question that isn't difficult to answer

....  I stand with the Venezuelan Revolution, I stand with its leader President Nicolas Maduro who will be the President of Venezuela until the people of Venezuela vote him out."

Where do you stand?

Do you stand with Trump, Bolton, Pompeo and Abrams?
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 24, 2019, 08:26:55 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vq7ngZgzU-k


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duQ_oxPFIAA


Thom Hartmann Program
Published on 24 Jan 2019
Quote
@ 6:02 mins It would be a fascinating thought experiment or maybe a science fiction novel to wonder what would have happened if after the election here in the November of 2016 had the European Union said:

 "Well you know Hillary Clinton got three million more votes. We're gonna recognize her as the legitimately elected President United States. We're not going to talk to Trump."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdjclGiElQY
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 24, 2019, 08:31:57 AM
30 min report on Venezuela by ABC TV Australia way back in March 2017 ... many interesting anecdotes about the already dire situation back then. Generally it is pro-Opposition and anti-Maduro on other occasions Venezuelans call for a Pox on both their Houses.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QjufrxigE4
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 24, 2019, 08:33:08 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qndjjv9kmeY
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 24, 2019, 08:36:07 AM
Democracy Now!
Published on 25 Jan 2019

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QS3s9xFhzGc


Moderate Rebels
Published on 1 Feb 2019

Max Blumenthal and Ben Norton speak with Aline Piva, who lives and teaches in Caracas, Venezuela and explains what's really going on in the country, with a US-led coup attempt to install the right-wing opposition. We discuss the economic warfare and US sanctions on Venezuela, the daily life and problems, coup leader Juan Guaidó and the opposition's neoliberal politics, and the geopolitics of regime change against Nicolás Maduro.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRwrHO4Zi1g
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 24, 2019, 08:38:14 AM
Repost - George Galloway
Published on 27 Jan 2019

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r05IcTGYL_I


Quote
09:04
now before they dropped the bombs of
course they dropped the narrative and
this narrative about the supposed basket
case of Venezuela the bankruptcy of
socialism as if Venezuela was a
socialist country which it isn't
this has
been being dropped now for years under
Chavez and Maduro they have softened up
I can only speak for the British public
but I've just been with some people who
ought to know better who imagined that
Maduro has been deficient in some way in
the economic problems that now beset
Venezuela but in truth Venezuela is in
economic trouble because of American
sanctions sabotage
and the American
drive to keep the oil price down

precisely to cause problems for
Venezuela Russia and Iran am I not right


10:14
you're absolutely right and I want to
get into that in a second but getting to
the earlier point of the statements you
were making the history of how media is
involved in international relations this
is going to be a very interesting case
study hopefully in a saner world

possibly in a Chinese university in 30
years time when they look at how the
West manipulates its audience -- in the
Vietnam War the film reels because it
was film in those days that were coming
back stateside to be processed showed a
war that was far uglier than the
establishment wanted people to imagine

by 1990 the establishment realized that
televised images don't always go in
their favor

and so the Gulf War of 1990 managed it
was now live TV satellite TV no need for
the film reels to be processed in the
Iraq war of 2003
it was much the same I
could say that about 1999 in Yugoslavia
but that was being ignored because
Monica Lewinsky was of course in the
news
while Tony Blair quietly made a
speech at the University of Chicago
saying that you help people by killing
people
this perverse thesis that many
just accept is true without questioning
the logic of it now
though we've taken
it a step further the the powers that be
saw how during the Syria crisis the
power of individuals on social media
challenging the official narrative could
actually make waves people saying - hold
on I don't think what you're saying is
right' hold on someone on the ground has
sent me this evidence which contradicts
what you've got via satellite from the
Holiday Inn or Marriott Hotel in Beirut
from someone who's never even set foot
in Syria -- gideon wise to that they've
realized that you've got to control the
social media narrative
and so you had
the phenomenon speaking of this guy who
on why either the fake president of
venezuela he had the blue checkmark on
twitter was tweeting images of him
swearing himself in as president in the
middle of the street.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 24, 2019, 08:42:53 AM
Repost - January 24, 2019

Tick, tick, tick ... all the boxes are ticked ... are you ready?

Quote
US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo has refused to pull diplomats from Caracas, arguing the government that severed diplomatic ties with the US is not legitimate and threatening ‘appropriate actions’ if anyone is endangered.

“We call on the Venezuelan military and security forces to continue protecting the welfare and well-being of all Venezuelan citizens, as well as US and other foreign citizens in Venezuela,” Pompeo said in a statement on Wednesday evening, adding the US “will take appropriate action to hold accountable anyone who endangers the safety and security of our mission and its personnel.”

    U.S. will conduct diplomatic relations with #Venezuela through the government of interim President Guaido. U.S. does not recognize the #Maduro regime. U.S. does not consider former president Maduro to have the legal authority to break diplomatic relations. https://t.co/DBS4GiGEWIpic.twitter.com/gQZJuS1xfn
    — Secretary Pompeo (@SecPompeo) January 24, 2019

Venezuela’s President Nicolas Maduro declared all US diplomats persona non grata on Wednesday, after Washington recognized opposition leader Juan Guaido as the country’s president. Guaido, however, said he wanted the US diplomats to stay, setting the stage for a potential diplomatic incident.

Russian Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova said the US “handpicking” of a government in Caracas perfectly illustrates the true Western sentiments toward international law, sovereignty and non-interference in internal affairs of states.

----------

Quote
Venezuelan army disavows self-proclaimed leader, will defend national sovereignty – defense minister 

 The Venezuelan military will not accept a president imposed by “dark interests,” Defense Minister Vladimir Padrino said after Washington and a number of its allies recognized a lawmaker as the new leader in Caracas.

The army will continue to defend the constitution and national sovereignty, Padrino said on Wednesday afternoon, hours after opposition lawmaker Juan Guaido was proclaimed interim president by the National Assembly, in a direct challenge to President Nicolas Maduro.

The US quickly recognized Guaido as Venezuela’s legitimate leader, with the Organization of American States (OAS) following Washington’s lead. Canada and France have also recognized Guaido, while Mexico has declined to do so “for now.”

Maduro responded to the US announcement by cutting diplomatic ties with Washington and giving American diplomats 72 hours to leave Venezuela.
----------

Gosh and I wonder who was putting the pressure on Guaido to declare himself President of Venezuela? Who could it have been?

Mmmmm so Russia is bad because it was alleged to be "interfering" in US politics? Ermmmmmmm. OK then.  A 'tad' hypocritical but we are all used to that. :)
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 24, 2019, 08:47:42 AM
Repost - January 24, 2019

Quote
John Wight
 Scour the history books and you will struggle to find an act of imperialism more brazen than US President Donald Trump’s de-recognition of Nicolas Maduro as Venezuela’s president.

In a scathing denouncement of the Mexican-American War of 1846-48, famed US Civil War General (and later president) Ulysses S Grant told a reporter, “We had no claim on Mexico. Texas had no claim beyond the Nueces River, and yet we pushed on to the Rio Grande and crossed it. I am always ashamed of my country when I think of that invasion.”

The Mexican-American War was a war of plunder and conquest on the part of a US ruling class for whom every country south of the Rio Grande was then, as if by divine right, deemed subservient to Washington. From then to now the US has regarded Latin America as a wholly owned subsidiary, its primary function to serve Washington’s economic interests.
https://www.rt.com/op-ed/449554-trumps-coronation-guaido-venezuela/



Quote
    Mr. Maduro will not just roll over and accept this. The question now is: who is going to be on his side and who is going to be on Mr. Guaido’s side and how ugly will things get...

“There is a great danger that this could lead to a civil war,” former US diplomat Jim Jatras told RT. “If the military splits, or the police, we could have very serious violence in this country.”

“Millions of Venezuelans rose out of poverty during the Bolivarian revolution. They are not going to accept the imposition of the US- chosen new president,” Brian Becker from the anti-war ANSWER Coalition told RT, warning that if civil war erupts it will be a “bloodbath.”

Analysts have called Trump’s recognition of the leader of the National Assembly a blatant interference into the internal affairs of a sovereign nation.

Trump recognizes US-backed head of Venezuela’s opposition Juan Guaido as country’s interim president

“There has been a project which the US government started .... to restore US influence and to promote the most right-wing governments,” Becker explained, noting that Venezuela’s pro-Washington neighbors might be used to fuel the coup in Caracas.
https://www.rt.com/news/449556-venezuela-civil-war-threat/

Quote
US might pull regional strings to topple Maduro through military invasion – Max Blumenthal
Published time: 24 Jan, 2019

“What should be concerning is the prospect of a military invasion, possibly from Colombia – or covert action from Colombia [or] Brazil – with the US standing behind, kind of pulling the strings,” the award-winning American author and investigative journalist told RT, after US President Donald Trump and a number of Latin American government recognized Guaido's claims to power.

“I see no indication that the military will heed the calls of [US Vice President] Mike Pence,” he noted. “The military is absolutely loyal to the government of Venezuela.”

“There is also a peoples' militia that is supportive of the government, that has not been activated, and that I think would be the scenario that would provoke mass bloodshed,” Blumenthal added.

“The opposition mostly uses homemade arms. It does have some rifles, but they have not been armed the way the opposition in Syria was,” the journalist said, noting that Guaido’s followers are not ready to take on the government on their own.

For now, Blumenthal explained, Trump's recognition of Guaido fulfilled the opposition's demands, but their claim to power has not yet succeeded “beyond a symbolic level.”

https://www.rt.com/news/449560-venezuela-us-coup-blumenthal/

So who cares if there is a multi-year civil war bloodbath in Venezuela so long as the USA is in charge and is calling the shots from Washington DC?

Worked a treat in Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, Libya, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Columbia, Brazil, Argentina, Chile, Panama, Cuba, Pakistan and Yemen. :)

What could possibly go wrong when all these American 'geniuses' (sic make that Psychopaths) in the room.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 24, 2019, 08:55:44 AM
Repost - 24 Jan, 2019
Quote
Act of gangsterism against Venezuela: Trump, Pence, Pompeo star in the Pirates of the Caribbean
by George Galloway Published time: 24 Jan, 2019

 You could scour the bowels of US imperial crimes, from the Mexican-American War to the Gulf of Tonkin in Vietnam, and you won’t find a more brazen cynical act gangsterism than that which is now underway against oil-rich Venezuela.

Not since Hitler justified blitzing Poland by claiming it had encroached on the frontier into Nazi Germany has a more blatant set of falsehoods been adduced as a pretext for conflict.

https://www.rt.com/op-ed/449597-venezuela-maduro-us-trump/

Has it really come to this? I'm afraid so yes. Get used to it. 


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czcZ5PtA6E0


RT
Published on 25 Jan 2019
‘What’s happening in Venezuela is unbelievable, open attempt for coup’ – ex-Ecuadorian president
Washington’s reckless push for regime change in Venezuela, where the US actively supports a person who “ignores all laws,” might set a dangerous precedent, former president of Ecuador, Rafael Correa told RT.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9ZJFptB3z8

Quote
Maduro, like Chavez, won't sellout Venezuelans oil fields to western corporate oil giants like Exxon, Shell & Halliburton that's why the terrorist states of America has levied crippling economic sanctions and embargoes on the country for 20 plus years now since Hugo Chavez.

Multiple international/USA/CIA led directed coups to kill and overthrow Chavez failed and once again who is advocating for regime change? Pompeo former CIA director. Maduro just ditched the Petro dollar just like Iran and Libya did (barely weeks before Ghadaffi was invaded by NATO) to ease the economic sanctions and that's the sole reason why Maduro's a "fully fledged dictator" now and needs to be toppled NOW. Can't wait ... the "people" are suffering terribly, ahem.

It's next to impossible to keep up to speed when one only relies on the MSM / US Media to find out what's happening in the world and more importantly why. The kinds of Trade and Financial embargoes/barriers have been erected against Venezuela as they were against Morsi in Egypt and as they were against Chile when Allende was still in power.

They screw the people, make life impossible, some take to the streets protesting and then the US western Media circus gets going blaming it all on the current President/Government they want toppled asap. It's in the Manual folks. Seriously it is in a Manual.

RT America
Published on 24 Jan 2019

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNsgpRcgyY8

The Trump admins treatment of Venezuela is further proof that the last thing Trump is a Putin/Russia stooge or a "traitor". But of course no one will say that in the US MSM who will keep saying he is and that he keeps doing things that are Pro-Russia when in fact he does not.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 24, 2019, 09:01:35 AM
Repost -  January 25, 2019

— Muammar Gaddafi initiated a movement to REFUSE THE DOLLAR AND THE EURO
— On February 2006, SYRIA DROPPED THE DOLLAR as its primary hard currency.

— Jan. 4, it was reported that Pakistan was DITCHING THE DOLLAR in its trade with China, and that same day, the US placed it on the watch list for religious freedom violations.

— Iran finally switched FROM THE DOLLAR to the euro.

So why is the US meddling and wanting to cause a civil war and overthrow Maduro as Venezuelan President?

BECAUSE MADURO WANTS TO DUMP THE DOLLAR!!!

The government of Venezuela has confirmed that it is ceasing the sales of its vast oil reverse in the US Dollar.
The move will help the oil rich South American country dodge the unilateral SANCTIONS recently passed by the US. US sanctions and threats of military action against Venezuela have been roundly condemned by both Russia and China.

http://theduran.com/confirmed-venezuela-dumps-dollar-good/

Venezuela had began trading oil in Euros.

A similar move was made by the Iraqi government in the year 2000!

This is not news. It's not unique. These were the subject matter up for discussion between Putin and Maduro when they met recently. Currency exchanges and Trade and getting around the bs sanctions of the US Oligarchs.

Boy and people complain about BDS against Israel? Shit BDS is amateur night compared to what the USA has been doing and ramping up progressively though Bush, Obama and now Trump.

It's in the Manual how to proceed when someone goes against The Empire. Next comes the "terrorist" attacks/shootings on civilian protesters  which will be blamed on "Venezuelan military personal" friendly to Maduro.

As per Maidan Square, Kiev, Ukraine and of course Syria.

Like I said it is in a Manual.

Venezuela's Economy is a complete mess because the USA and others are blocking and undermining Venezuela's ability to continue selling its OIL in the Open Free Market.

The same would happen to every other country with such punitive and unjust Sanctions and Blockades. It's not about free and fair elections. It's not about the freedom of the people. It's 100% all about Money and Control and the Abuse of US Power. They Lie.

It's in the Manual.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 24, 2019, 09:04:24 AM
Repost

So you are saying it's all about the money and not about spreading democracy? I'm shocked! ;)

Btw, Venezuela tried to opt out of fiat money at all and made their own cryptocurrency.

Link >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petro_(cryptocurrency)

Yes the Petro etc. but that is very problematic atm, it would only be a longer term option once other nations officially began using crypto systems. That's still a ways off. I think. I suspect besides the likes of XRP that's getting traction with many major banks only once China ticks off on crypto officially will much happen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AD9CFxhUjI

I think this is the 4th Opposition leader the US has backed in to take over in a Coup Attempt since 1998.

4th time lucky maybe. 
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 24, 2019, 09:06:26 AM
Repost January 25, 2019

Quote
Congresswoman who fixed Democratic primary for Clinton now ‘fixing’ democracy in Venezuela

Wasserman Schultz may hold a personal grudge against Putin. She had to resign as the Chair of the Democratic National Committee after leaked documents revealed how it was playing on the side of Hillary Clinton and against Bernie Sanders in 2016. The leak is widely attributed to Russia by American politicians and media.

The irony of Wasserman Schultz now being on the frontline of bringing democracy to Venezuela didn’t go unnoticed by Jill Stein, the head of the Green Party.

    Incredible: a video about bringing democracy to Venezuela, starring the person who rigged the 2016 DNC primary & ripped off millions of American voters. Hey Debbie Wasserman Schultz, how about you fix elections in Broward County, Florida before trying to "help" other countries? https://t.co/Yep6QhWIw5
    — Dr. Jill Stein🌻 (@DrJillStein) January 25, 2019

Stein is one of a handful of American politicians, who has publicly rejected American interference in Venezuela, saying it would be a greed-motivated disaster similar to those the US brought to Libya, Syria, Yemen, Honduras and Ukraine.

    The Democrats are backing Trump on regime change in Venezuela, just like they backed disasters in Afghanistan, Iraq, Honduras, Libya, Syria, Ukraine & Yemen. When it comes to regime change, the two parties of War & Wall Street are still marching in lockstep. https://t.co/Yep6QhWIw5
    — Dr. Jill Stein🌻 (@DrJillStein) January 25, 2019

But who cares? Americans were told already that Stein is just a Putin tool stealing votes from Clinton and working for RT. Those were smears, but ‘alternative facts’ are not an invention of the Trump administration.

Opposing Washington’s regime change is a dangerous cause. Say a word of doubt, and you’ll find yourself in a virtual concentration camp for Putin puppets, Assad apologists and Maduro mouthpieces.

    Yesterday, @RoKhanna became the first (and I believe only) member of Congress to question the wisdom of Trump's decree of who rules Venezuela, so he's instantly smeared as - you'll never guess - a Russian asset by CNN contributor @michaeldweiss. Don't call it McCarthyism! pic.twitter.com/TAPxb4kZ3d
    — Glenn Greenwald (@ggreenwald) January 24, 2019

    Oh my god, it's the retweet police! Politicians must only ever retweet guys like Casey, who works for a fake "progressive" think tank funded by Gulf dictatorships and Walmart https://t.co/0p91gfKyds
    — Michael Tracey (@mtracey) January 24, 2019

https://www.rt.com/op-ed/449686-debbie-schultz-fixing-venezuela/
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 24, 2019, 09:09:19 AM
Repost - January 26, 2019

Not The Onion:

The Trump administration has announced that Elliott Abrams, who was convicted over the Iran-Contra scandal in which the Ronald Reagan administration secretly funded paramilitary groups in Nicaragua, will lead the US’s efforts to press for democracy in Venezuela.

Link >> https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/venezuela-latest-elliott-abrams-trump-pompeo-maduro-juan-guaido-a8747306.html

"....... will lead the US’s efforts to press for democracy in Venezuela."

ROFL ... every picture tells a story. ;)

... core members of the PNAC including Richard Perle, Paul Wolfowitz, R. James Woolsey, Elliot Abrams, Donald Rumsfeld, Robert Zoellick, and ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century

They're all Psychos these fellows. And I am not kidding I really really mean it. Bat shit crazy psychopaths. Should all be locked up imho.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 24, 2019, 09:11:28 AM
Repost - January 27, 2019

NO nation can maintain an economy that has been under attack by the USA for more than a decade, two decades in fact!

Copy from SEPT 2018

Quote
Merida, September 17, 2018 (venezuelanalysis.com) – Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro returned to Caracas Monday upon concluding a four-day visit to the People’s Republic of China, which saw the two countries sign twenty-eight bilateral agreements, including a new US $5 billion Chinese loan and joint plans for a fourth satellite, in addition to strengthening political ties.

The visit to China was the fourth by Maduro since taking office in 2013, and included top-level meetings with Chinese President Xi Jinping, the State Council’s Investigations Centre, the National Assembly, as well as a tour of late PRC founder Mao Zedong’s mausoleum.

The trip comes as Caracas faces a hostile international environment with mounting pressure from neighboring right-wing governments, talk of a US “military intervention,” as well as the continuing economic impact from US-led financial sanctions against the country.

Speaking from Beijing, Maduro qualified the visit as “a great success” and expressed that he was “very optimistic” about its results. [...]

Maduro has recently looked to strengthen relations with Asian, European, and Middle Eastern partners to secure fresh credit lines for Venezuela’s beleaguered economy amid a US-sponsored financial embargo that prohibits US firms from lending.

“I have had to overcome economic sanction measures by the US and Europe, who persecute Venezuelan bank accounts, kidnap billions of dollars in international accounts and block commerce,” Maduro told Chinese state TV.

US $5bn for oil industry

Amongst the announcements was a new US $5 billion loan to boost Venezuela’s oil industry, which has suffered from falling production, international court action, and a wide reaching anti-corruption probe.

The new loan reaffirms China as Venezuela’s main creditor and follows on the heels of a previous pledge of financial assistance by the Chinese Development Bank in July. [...]

As part of the agreements, Venezuela’s state-run oil firm PDVSA will cede 9.9 percent of its shares in the mixed Venezuelan-Chinese oil firm SINOVENSA to the Chinese state-owned National Petroleum Consortium (CNPC), which previously owned 40 percent of the company. SINOVENSA produces 130,000 barrels of oil a day in the Orinoco Oil Belt.

Despite being signed between two state-owned oil giants, the agreement has once again provoked concerns from some analysts that Caracas is undertaking a “privatisation” of the country’s petroleum industry.

[ See? They can't win can they - nationalized oil industry system is bad, privatised international conglomerates from Russia and China also bad ]

New Silk Road project

In other announcements, Venezuela will now join China’s ambitious New Silk Road commercial plan which is allegedly worth US $900 billion.

https://venezuelanalysis.com/news/14056


As is typical of the USA they do not care less about "democracy and freedom" all they care about is pushing their own economic interests and curtailing the opportunities of nations like China and Russia they "deem" as economic threats to their Global Hegemony.  Brazil was another threat .. (part of BRICS) look what happened there in the political realm the last few years? This is how they implement their control at any cost.

Quote
Though China is Venezuela's top lender, Russia has also been a long-standing ally of Maduro and his predecessor Hugo Chavez with business ranging from oil and loans to military hardware.

Of late, Moscow has become Venezuela’s lender of last resort, with the government and Rosneft handing Venezuela at least $17 billion in loans and credit lines since 2006, according to Reuters calculations.

Below is data on Russia's involvement with Venezuela.
Sovereign debt

In November 2017, Russia agreed to restructure Venezuelan sovereign debt of $3.15 billion, with repayments lasting 10 years.

Russia and Venezuela have a joint venture bank, Evrofinance Mosnarbank, Russia's 91th biggest by assets. The Venezuelan National Development Fund (Fonden) controls a 49.99 percent stake in the bank.

Russia's Gazprombank, where the state-controlled gas producer Gazprom is a shareholder, and the state bank VTB each own a 25 percent stake in Evrofinance.

Rosneft, Russia's biggest oil producer and one of the largest globally, operates in Venezuela and has also issued loans to PDVSA, backed by oil supplies.

According to Rosneft, PDVSA paid $500 million debt during the third quarter of last year, with the outstanding obligations standing at $3.1 billion then.

Rosneft also holds a 49.9 percent stake in U.S. refiner Citgo for a 2016 loan of about $1.5 billion. The remaining 50.1 percent stake is being held by PDVSA but is collateralized under the 2020 bond issue.

Reuters reported in 2017 that Rosneft was in talks with PDVSA to swap its Citgo collateral for oilfield stakes and a fuel supply deal.
Russian oil companies

Rosneft, whose chief executive Igor Sechin is a frequent visitor to Venezuela, has stakes in a number of oil projects in the country. Total oil production from those projects was 8 million tons in 2017, or 161,000 barrels per day.

Rosneft is involved in the following projects:

- Junin 6: PDVSA holds a 60 percent stake, the rest is controlled by a joint venture of Rosneft and Gazpromneft, the oil arm of Gazprom. Rosneft holds 80 percent in that JV, Gazpromneft controls 20 percent.

- Petromonagas: Rosneft owns 40 percent.

- Petroperija: Rosneft owns 40 percent.

- Petrovictoria: Rosneft owns 40 percent.

- Petromiranda: Rosneft owns 32 percent.

- Boqueron: Rosneft owns 26.67 percent.


Military

The first credit line for gun purchases was signed in Moscow in 2006 by Chavez and Russian leader Vladimir Putin. Since then, similar agreements have allowed Venezuela to buy Kalashnikov rifles, Sukhoi planes, tanks and other military equipment.

Last month, the Nezavisimaya daily newspaper cited unnamed sources saying Russia wanted to deploy strategic aircraft at a Venezuelan airbase in the Caribbean Sea south-east of the United States.

In December last year, two Russian strategic bomber aircraft capable of carrying nuclear weapons landed in Venezuela.

 https://themoscowtimes.com/news/guns-oil-and-loans-whats-at-stake-for-russia-venezuela-64284

Isn't it obvious what's been going in Venezuela for years now and why it is the nation is in economic and political turmoil is because of sanctions, trade embargoes upon Venezuela by the USA and it's Client States.

No one is allowed to trade, do financial deals, obtain long term loans, purchase military equipment or arms or have co-investments with Russia or China. Especially in Oil and Gas.

It's not a question of whether to interfere or not ... that is the status quo already.
That's why Venezuela is a basket case to begin with. Had the USA dealt with Venezuela fairly and equitably their economy would be BOOMING and there would be no protests going on at all and people would not be starving there!!!

This is so obvious but the marketing system via the western media makes it seem it never happened that way.

The ONLY DICTATOR involved in Venezuela since Chavez was elected has been the United States of America .... DICTATING what US citizens, corporations and other nations and their Corporations and Banks cannot do in Venezuela.

It's all in the Manual ... it's USA Corporate Empire Control:101
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 24, 2019, 09:15:20 AM
Repost - January 29, 2019

Summary on Venezuela by Jimmy, Mike Prysner and Abby Martin 25 mins

Includes old footage of Trump saying the US should have demanded 50% of Libya's Oil for the expenses and help in getting rid of Qaddafi. The Libyans the protesters would have loved the US for doing this and agreed to pay.

@15:26 Jimmy:
"So if you're if you were wondering what's happening in Venezuela you're being hood winked again by the (Neocons) the Neoliberals and the Bankers and people like this [points to Trump] who think it's our right to go into a sovereign country and steal their natural resources [and/or to exclude their resources & exports from global markets - like with China, Russia, Iran] as long as we make a deal with some of the people there. So that's what's, that's what's happening, and so please stop watching MSNBC and CNN if you want to know what's going on about this stuff."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMplqEpfGhs

In Caracas:
"Right now Juan Guaido is speaking in the east of the city among supporters. Called once again calling on the military to overthrow Maduro as well as making other announcements. Meanwhile
life continues as normal in most parts of the city. Businesses are open, people are buying things, people are going about their business without any real interruptions although, you know as
if nothing had happened the past three days despite the violence that we've seen the past few nights."


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t45QYujLAWo

Who could know outside of Venezuela what might be going on there?

See more text extracts here:
https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,2204.msg187501.html#msg187501 

Quote
Abby Martin :
"What's really happening is a US-backed coup, an illegal criminal coup, imposed by the Trump
administration and this is absolutely proven to be a fact dressed in constitutional garb, they're using the Constitution. These are the same people who just tried to blow up Maduro on stage during a live televised press conference (address) just weeks ago."


Abby & Jimmy:
  "So they're doing it again. It's pretty disturbing. Just because Russia-backed Maduro! Even the New York Times had the audacity to Gaslight us and say: 'Russia alleges that this is a US-backed coup.' It's like, no, that's the reality. This is not a Russian talking point.

  "My whole thing is I thought they they've convinced me that Trump is a Russian puppet. So Trump is FOR the overthrow and Russia's AGAINST it! How could he be a puppet? What? So either way you're a Russian on this one, either way. If you're going with Trump you're a Putin Puppet because he's a Putin Puppet. If you go with Russia you're a Russia Puppet.

  "You're right but this is this is um that is what's going on. This is what's happening okay. This is another siege of an oil-rich nation that the Neoliberal establishment wanted to take over. That's it."

@11:00 "Yeah and I did want to say one more thing about the journalists claim that journalists are being jailed. I mean we investigated that ourselves actually there's video on Empire Files about it ..... So if people are concerned about press freedom in Venezuela you got to be very wary of the opposition here."



@13:00
"And if people are concerned about democracy in Venezuela you should be supporting the fact that they have free and fair elections that have been validated by hundreds of international observers. It was the opposition that asked the UN to not come and observe the elections because they we're working with Trump. Trump (The US establishment Regime) begged the opposition to not run because then, when you don't run in the elections, then you can discredit them and say 'Look we can't run in the elections and Maduro just ran unopposed and he's a dictator.'

That didn't work because an opposition member actually ended up running. So Trump (the US establishment Regime)  tried to re-strategize here. Now we have to look at this in the context of obviously the U.S.'s role in regime change in Venezuela for a long time.

Obama exacerbated that he called Venezuela a unique national security threat and 2015 slapped I think six or seven sanctions on them. Trump on the other hand is reinstalling the Monroe Doctrine from the Reagan era. I mean Trump just appointed Elliott Abrams (PNAC founding Neocon) this is the guy who oversaw death squads in El Salvador & Nicaragua (Iran Contra Affair - GHW Bush I pardoned him)

Trump slaps 63 new sanctions on Venezuela. John Bolton's rhetoric about 'the trick of
tyranny' and then we've come to find out in Corporate media that Washington Post (Besos owned) just wrote an article basically laying out first of all Gaslight - you know so it's not a coup it's it's democratic and constitutional - but then in the same article they talk about how Trump's cabinet tried to first they try to do this they try to convince the Venezuelan people that Maduro wasn't legitimate

When that didn't work they were just waiting for someone like Juan Guaido to carry out the final stages of the coup. It's actually laid out in the Washington Post it's very fascinating how they just admitted it - and you know we already know that they would not have done this without the green light from Trump (the US establishment Regime) because they need the legitimacy and backing of the US government and it's proxy regime change fronts the Organization of American States the Lima Group - all of those entities to really carry this out."


Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 24, 2019, 09:19:29 AM
Repost
Quote


Definitely there is immense discontent dissatisfaction with the leadership of Donald Trump.

Definitely there is immense discontent dissatisfaction with the leadership of Theresa May.

Definitely there is immense discontent dissatisfaction with the leadership of Emmanuel Macron.

Definitely there is immense discontent dissatisfaction with the leadership of Angela Merkel.

Definitely there is immense discontent dissatisfaction with the leadership of Justin Trudeau.

Definitely there is immense discontent dissatisfaction with the leadership of Scott Morrison.

Definitely there was immense discontent dissatisfaction with the leadership and Government of
Ex-Prime Minister Najib Razak whose Government Party lost the last election in Malayasia - after being in control for 60 years. Voted out in a 2018 election and then Razak was subsequently arrested and charged for Fraud, Theft and Embezzlement no less.

There's no Coup de tête happening in any of those nations - even with a Corrupt Government in power and an Idiot like Donald Trump as President.

So what makes Venezuela oh so so special or different?
--- --- ---

Quote
The key issue for me is not Venezuela itself but that this issue again presents another opportunity for millions of people in and out of the USA to finally face up to and shake off their Conditioning.

It's an opportunity for people to re-evaluate, to drop their many Cultural Myths and personal Beliefs that are no longer sustainable in present time.

That those myths and beliefs they have lived their entire lives accepting as Tuisms are now far less sustainable than even BAU on this planet is Sustainable.

Events like Venezuela then is another opportunity  for people to confront themselves and change how they think about everything now. The more who do this the better for everyone. The sooner genuine systemic changes can begin to be put in place to solve the looming global catastrophe that is AGW/CC.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on February 24, 2019, 09:26:58 AM
Venezuelans vow to carry on protests as clashes turn deadly

At least two killed in violent protests as President Maduro severs diplomatic ties with Colombia over Guaido support.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/02/venezuelans-vow-carry-protests-clashes-turn-deadly-190224063529686.html

(https://www.aljazeera.com/mritems/imagecache/mbdxxlarge/mritems/Images/2019/2/24/c40ad3d5fcec4e26bfd801db6521ccd3_18.jpg)

Venezuela’s Food Crisis Reaches a Breaking Point

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/venezuelas-food-crisis-reaches-a-breaking-point

(https://media.newyorker.com/photos/5c7045dbf923155c5f092555/master/w_813,c_limit/Taladrid-VenezuelaAidCrisis.jpg)

More than three million Venezuelans have fled the country in the years since the crisis began, and those who remain have seen their quality of life deteriorate to previously unthinkable levels.

<snip, please take the neoliberal/neocon war machine propaganda elsewhere, Rob; N.>

I love you, Neven, but that was basic "freedom of speech". Please allow comments on the ASIF even if you don't fully agree with them. And asking for UN-supervised elections is not "propaganda".
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 24, 2019, 10:08:39 AM
Up-to-Date via RT's aggregator news service
Quote

‘PR stunt to justify intervention in Venezuela’: Experts slam US regime change ‘gangsterism’
Published time: 23 Feb, 2019

“This is an attempt to set out a pretext for some kind of intervention,” political analyst and journalist John Wight told RT. “The Red Cross and all the other international aid agencies are refusing to touch this because they know that this is a Trojan horse, deployed to try to foment the kind of scenes we're seeing at the border.”

While Mallinson stressed that the US-led ‘humanitarian’ intervention might be aimed at keeping the country “as much as possible away from Russia and China,” Wight slammed the American policies as a pure form of “gangsterism.”

“Does anybody really think that Donald Trump, Mike Pompeo, John Bolton Elliott Abrams care one bit about the welfare of the Venezuelan people?” he wondered, rhetorically. “These are thugs in tailored suits whose views are far closer to Al Capone than to Thomas Jefferson.”

https://www.rt.com/news/452274-venezuela-us-intervention-gangsterism/


Quote
Red Cross denounces unsanctioned use of its emblems to smuggle US aid to Venezuela
Published time: 23 Feb, 2019

    We’ve learned that there are some people not affiliated w/ @cruzrojacol & @CruzRojaVe wearing Red Cross emblems at Colombia-#Venezuela & Brazil-Ven border.
    We urge them to stop doing this. They might mean well but they risk jeopardizing our neutrality, impartiality & independence
    — IFRC Intl. Federation #RedCross #RedCrescent (@Federation) February 23, 2019

https://www.rt.com/news/452272-red-cross-emblems-venezuela-aid/


Quote
Venezuelan government condemns US-orchestrated ‘propaganda show’ at Colombian border
Published time: 23 Feb, 201

“From the propaganda show organized at the border, the governments of the United States and Colombia have violated practically all the principles and purposes of the UN Charter,” Arreaza tweeted on Saturday. “The world community observes them and will take appropriate action within the UN.”
https://www.rt.com/news/452263-venezuela-border-propaganda-show/
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 24, 2019, 10:17:05 AM

More than three million Venezuelans have fled the country in the years since the crisis began, and those who remain have seen their quality of life deteriorate to previously unthinkable levels.


Rob do you happen to have a legitimate credible source for that figure of 3 million - in years?

Over how many years? Show me the figures that make up this 3 million please.

Maybe they really meant:  "More than three million 'filthy rich white' Venezuelans who were by BIRTH part of / related to the former ruling class and former undemocratic corrupt regimes' have fled the country..."

I do not for sure myself, which is why I am asking. Maybe Bellingcat knows?
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 24, 2019, 11:09:40 AM
 Who burnt the truck? Venezuelan FM says ‘false flag expert’ Pompeo should look among his ‘agents’
Published time: 24 Feb, 2019

 Venezuelan Foreign Minister Jorge Arreaza has challenged US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo amid border clashes over US aid. He lashed at Pompeo and his 'hitmen' saying they were searching for the pretext for war.

"The CIA expert in false flag operations, Pompeo, thinks he can fool the world with a truck set ablaze by his own agents in Colombia," Arreaza tweeted on Saturday in response to recent clashes along the Venezuelan-Colombian border.

https://www.rt.com/news/452285-jorge-arreaza-comments-clashes/

Get that into you Pompeo lol
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on February 24, 2019, 11:10:48 AM
Venezuela crisis: Deadly border clashes as Maduro blocks aid

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-47346253

(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/450C/production/_105767671_7084876c-7895-4f77-903b-0acb855e9270.jpg)

Yet there are some claiming nothing is wrong in Venezuela, and if it is, it's all the US's fault anyway.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 24, 2019, 11:20:58 AM
    The people of Venezuela are enduring a serious humanitarian crisis. The Maduro government must put the needs of its people first, allow humanitarian aid into the country, and refrain from violence against protesters.
    — Bernie Sanders (@SenSanders) February 23, 2019

While the tweet received praise from accounts favoring regime change, and drew some mockery from conservatives, there has been a veritable avalanche of disappointment from the Vermont senator’s sympathizers – as well as journalists and celebrities opposed to the regime change operation.

    Bernie, are you f-ing kidding me! if you buy the Trump, Bolton, Abrams, Rubio line, “humanitarian intervention” and collude in the destruction of Venezuela, you cannot be credible candidate for President of the USA. Or, maybe you can, maybe you’re the perfect stooge for the 1 %.
    — Roger Waters (@rogerwaters) February 23, 2019

    Imagine being Bernie Sanders and thinking Mike Pence, John Bolton, and Elliott Abrams are innocently committed to alleviating the humanitarian plight of the Venezuelan people, and that the “food and medicine” they’re sending has no ulterior motive. Have you lost your mind???
    — Michael Tracey (@mtracey) February 23, 2019

    you know better than to endorse a stunt led by war criminals who have snuck weapons in aid shipments in the past. This stance will not make democrats like you more and will only lose you support from socialists
    — Abby Martin (@AbbyMartin) February 23, 2019

    A sad commentary on US politics that the country’s most prominent self-proclaimed socialist feels compelled to feed into an interventionist narrative crafted by the Trump administration.
    — Max Blumenthal (@MaxBlumenthal) February 23, 2019

    This is an incredibly disappointing response from you, Bernie. Don’t play into the hands of warmongers like Elliot Abrams and Donald Trump. You should know better than this.
    — The Humanist Report🌹 (@HumanistReport) February 23, 2019

    Bad tweet, wrong position. 0/10
    — Asa Winstanley (@AsaWinstanley) February 23, 2019

    Do better Bernie. Also, do your homework. Venezuela has been accepting aid. In November they accepted $9 million in health and nutritional aid from the UN. What Trump is offering is “not humanitarian aid” according to the Red Cross. https://t.co/IDDVgZwuJb
    — Naomi Schiller (@naomischiller) February 23, 2019

    Senator, even NPR and the Wall Street Journal have said that this humanitarian aid mission is a front for the opposition. If the U.S. wants to aid the Venezuelan people, the best way to do that is to lift the sanctions.
    — Brandon Jonely 🌹 (@Aldowyn) February 23, 2019

    Bernie, you lose supporters by the million every time you repeat the LIES of the MSM, #Trump & his three amigo's. Plenty of aid IS getting into Venezuela via the Red Cross. Only USA's invasion-disguised-as-aid is being refused entry. The only violence is due to USA's illegal acts
    — Interim Emperor of Venezuela (@Ian_Flaming) February 23, 2019
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on February 24, 2019, 11:36:20 AM
    The people of Venezuela are enduring a serious humanitarian crisis. The Maduro government must put the needs of its people first, allow humanitarian aid into the country, and refrain from violence against protesters.
    — Bernie Sanders (@SenSanders) February 23, 2019

Yes, and Bernie is right about that.

Quote
While the tweet received praise from accounts favoring regime change, and drew some mockery from conservatives, there has been a veritable avalanche of disappointment from the Vermont senator’s sympathizers – as well as journalists and celebrities opposed to the regime change operation.

    Bernie, are you f-ing kidding me! if you buy the Trump, Bolton, Abrams, Rubio line, “humanitarian intervention” and collude in the destruction of Venezuela, you cannot be credible candidate for President of the USA. Or, maybe you can, maybe you’re the perfect stooge for the 1 %.
    — Roger Waters (@rogerwaters) February 23, 2019

Let's see.

A rich white man defends an authoritarian regime facing a revolt from its own repressed and impoverished people—while campaigning AGAINST humanitarian aid!

And note that he is doing this on the day the regime shot and killed indigenous protestors.

Think about which side you are on, Lurk.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on February 24, 2019, 12:09:24 PM
During a concert last Friday in Barcelona, Roger Waters Slams Syria's White Helmets: 'A Fake Organization Fronting for Terrorists'

https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/europe/roger-waters-slams-fake-white-helmets-as-a-terrorist-front-1.6007488

The White Helmets, also known as the Syrian Civil Defense, have saved over 80,000 lives since it began operations in 2012, according to aid organization reports. The NGO was established that year after a Syrian Air Force attack on Syrian civilians. Within two years it became a national center for civil defense activities. The group, nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize in 2017, boasts 3,300 volunteers operating over 110 centers around Syria. A documentary about their work won the 2017 Academy Award for best documentary short.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Neven on February 24, 2019, 12:35:36 PM
Yet there are some claiming nothing is wrong in Venezuela, and if it is, it's all the US's fault anyway.

There are hundreds of place around the world where the same or even worse things are happening, that get zero attention. That's because those places don't have resources that are worth stealing. Venezuela needs to be left alone, sanctions need to be lifted, and neolib/neocon war machine propaganda needs to be fought at every step. So, stop spreading it here, Rob. 98% of the media and internet landscape is already on your side.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 24, 2019, 03:33:07 PM
Democracy doesn't work because someone wins the election over others.

Democracy works because the losers accept the declared result no matter what.

The smarter ones who have lost then immediately regroup to develop a better platform, better polices, better outreach to Voters, and better strategies to be elected next time round. If they cannot do that they do not deserve to win next time! No matter how bad the current Govt might be.

This is what the Opposition had faced for years almost decades in Malaysia. The whole system was rigged against them but they found a way to win anyway. They got the people on their side to beat The Corrupt System on it's own terms.

They forged a very strong (temporary) Coalition of disparate political groups with the single goal of getting rid of the corrupt Government in Power and to fix the Laws underpinning all the corruption and lack of Democracy.

One day the Venezuelan Opposition might be that smart and talented and worthy of being elected into Power. One day the American people might be that smart and talented and serious about fixing the shit fight they live under. 
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 24, 2019, 03:40:05 PM
Side-bar commentary:

Democracy doesn't work because someone wins the election over others.

Democracy works because the losers accept the declared result no matter what.

The smarter ones who have lost then immediately regroup to develop a better platform, better polices, better outreach to Voters, and better strategies to be elected next time round. If they cannot do that they do not deserve to win next time! No matter how bad the current Govt might be.

This is what the Opposition had faced for years almost decades in Malaysia. The whole system was rigged against them but they found a way to win anyway. They got the people on their side to beat The Corrupt System on it's own terms.

They forged a very strong (temporary) Coalition of disparate political groups with the single goal of getting rid of the corrupt Government in Power and to fix the Laws underpinning all the corruption and lack of Democracy.

One day the Venezuelan Opposition might be that smart and talented and worthy of being elected into Power. One day the American people might be that smart and talented and serious about fixing the shit fight they live under. 

But for Americia I seriously, honestly cannot see that ever happening. It will either implode first and need to be rescued by the international community with a Peace Keeping Force and an appointed Govt like Iraq got; or it will lose big time in a disastrous war and end up like Germany or Japan in 1945.

Doing what it is doing now to Venezuela is just one more step towards such an end for the USA.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: SteveMDFP on February 24, 2019, 03:53:02 PM


Basically, we do NOT take kindly to countries dropping the dollar.

In unrelated news, Venezuela dropped the dollar.

3. Having oil or other natural resources the US needs.
. . .
China, Russia, Turkey, India and many others are also establishing other bilateral arrangements already and setting up alt avenues including selling their US Bonds and buying up Gold stocks as they prepare to dump the USD and prepare for what comes next.

Strong correlation between a state dropping the dollar and being attacked, yes.
I'm skeptical that the link is *directly* causal.
I think a given state drops the dollar mostly when relations with the US (and global capitalism) become fraught.  This is a defensive move against perceived threat.

By pressuring much of the world over Iran sanctions (which nobody else favors) Dolt 45 is incentivizing the whole world to adopt ways around US monetary hegemony.  There are areas of heavy-handedness beyond Iran, of course.  That just strikes me as the most egregious at the moment.

I really don't think the US will attack nations just because they drop the dollar for trade.  It's just a very small factor in the calculation for waging war.

The dollar being the currency of international trade is in the interest of the US.  It's only bad for the rest of the world when the US fails to act as an honest steward of economic stability and fairness in the world.  Idiots like Rump are why we aren't going to be able to have nice things.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 24, 2019, 04:06:01 PM
Yet there are some claiming nothing is wrong in Venezuela,

Are you able to quote even one person claiming that Rob? How about 2 or 3 important people making such claims? I know of none. Even Maduro does not make such ludicrous claims as that. 

Quote
and if it is, it's all the US's fault anyway.

Probably because it primarily is. Venezuela cannot sell it's Oil Resources because of the actions of the USA alone - long long before Maduro's re-election in May last year.

How many Venezuelan refugees have been in those "caravans" heading to the US border to be blocked there by Trump and his Military and ICE agents and walls? Any numbers on that? 

It wouldn't take long for the USA to implode into political and civil strife, 50% unemployment, mass poverty, lawlessness, murders, and starvation if it was blockaded from selling all of it it's exports long enough.

Maybe that's a good strategy? You could all blame Trump and get him kicked out of Office and Hillary Clinton could take his place by unilaterally declaring herself as President, by taking the Oath of Office on her front lawn and then declaring Martial Law across the land and calling out the National Guard.

The world should do this to help save your floundering democracy and freedoms Rob. You agree that Trump and his whole Administration is extremely dangerous and unfit for Office don't you? If not why not Rob?

Let the world help you by placing immediate trade and financial sanctions on the USA and especially upon everyone in the Trump Administration and the Military and the Arms Dealers and their enablers in Congress.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 24, 2019, 04:35:24 PM
RUPTLY Live scenes from the Simon Bolivar Bridge at the Venezuela-Colombia border, where opposition supporters are attempting to break the troops’ cordon to deliver US aid into Venezuela for a second day. Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro has stated that the aid is a US plot to disguise an intervention.

https://www.rt.com/on-air/452307-venezuela-colombia-border-crisis/
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 25, 2019, 02:36:04 AM
As the title suggests Venezuela History is on topic in this thread. To properly and fairly understand today one needs to first understand yesterday and the multitude steps leading up to today.


Quote
Venezuela, April 2002: Coup or Popular Rebellion? The Myth of a United Venezuela
Barry Cannon First published: 21 June 2004
https://doi.org/10.1111/j.0261-3050.2004.00109.x

Abstract

This article assesses the merits of opposing National Assembly reports into the coup against President Chávez of Venezuela in April 2002. Looking at the historical context and the content of the reports, it argues that the two opposing accounts reflect a class division that has always existed in Venezuela but has been officially denied. It concludes that a possible exit from the stalemate could be that the opposition accept the reality of this class division and therefore the Chávez government as a legitimate representative of the popular classes. This, however, is unlikely in the present circumstances.
PDF https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1111/j.0261-3050.2004.00109.x


Quote
The Cha´vez phenomenon: Political change in Venezuela
Ronald D Sylvia & Constantine P Danopoulos
Pages 63-76 | Published online: 25 Aug 2010
Download citation https://doi.org/10.1080/713701367 (Access req. for full article)

This article focuses on the advent and governing style of, and issues facing colonel-turned politician Hugo Cha´vez since he became president of Venezuela in 1998 with 58% of the vote.

The article begins with a brief account of the nature of the country's political environment that emerged in 1958, following the demise of the Perez Jimenez dictatorship. Aided by phenomenal increases in oil prices, Venezuela's political elites reached a pact that governed the country for nearly four decades. Huge increases in education, health and other social services constituted the hallmark of Venezuela's 'subsidised democracy'.

Pervasive corruption, a decrease in oil revenues and two abortive coups in 1992 challenged the foundations of subsidised democracy. The election of Cha´vez in 1998 sealed the fate of the 1958 pact.

Cha´vez's charisma, anti-colonial/Bolivarist rhetoric, and increasing levels of poverty form the basis of his support among the poor and dissatisfied middle classes.

The articles then turns its attention to Cha´vez's governing style and the problems he faces as he labours to turn around the country's stagnant economy. Populist initiatives aimed at wealth redistribution, land reform and a more multidimensional and Third World-orientated foreign policy form the main tenets of the Cha´vez regime. These, coupled with anti-business rhetoric, over-dependence on oil revenues and opposition from Venezuela's political and economic elites, have polarised the country and threaten its political stability.

The brief overthrow of Cha´vez in April 2002, ongoing daily demonstrations, and divisions within the army and society have brought the country to the brink of civil war. (@2010)

Quote
Against the comedy of civil society
Posthegemony, media and the 2002 coup d'état in Venezuela
Juan Antonio Hernández
Pages 137-145 | Published online: 03 Aug 2010
Download citation https://doi.org/10.1080/13569320420001866532
(access req. see image extract below)

Since the rebellion of 27th February 1989 the multitude have acquired a particular form of visibility within the discourses of the public sphere in Venezuela ..... the middle class representing itself as 'Civil Society' places the multitude on the side of the barbaric.

What "rebellion" in Feb. 1989? Huh? What was that all about? Must have missed it while the Berlin Wall was collapsing. A decade later Chavez was the new President of Venezuela. How did that happen? Gosh don't know anything about that, or I don't remember, or FOX/CNN forgot to tell me. :)
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 25, 2019, 03:08:45 AM


Basically, we do NOT take kindly to countries dropping the dollar.

In unrelated news, Venezuela dropped the dollar.

3. Having oil or other natural resources the US needs.
. . .
China, Russia, Turkey, India and many others are also establishing other bilateral arrangements already and setting up alt avenues including selling their US Bonds and buying up Gold stocks as they prepare to dump the USD and prepare for what comes next.

Strong correlation between a state dropping the dollar and being attacked, yes.
I'm skeptical that the link is *directly* causal.
I think a given state drops the dollar mostly when relations with the US (and global capitalism) become fraught.  This is a defensive move against perceived threat.

By pressuring much of the world over Iran sanctions (which nobody else favors) Dolt 45 is incentivizing the whole world to adopt ways around US monetary hegemony.  There are areas of heavy-handedness beyond Iran, of course.  That just strikes me as the most egregious at the moment.

I really don't think the US will attack nations just because they drop the dollar for trade.  It's just a very small factor in the calculation for waging war.

The dollar being the currency of international trade is in the interest of the US.  It's only bad for the rest of the world when the US fails to act as an honest steward of economic stability and fairness in the world.  Idiots like Rump are why we aren't going to be able to have nice things.

I suspect maybe you're not quite putting yourself in the shoes of the TPTB here. Not an easy thing to do, one's mind could snap trying that. My view is that dropping the dollar is a Red line. It's overt publicly known proof that the hegemony has lost control and influence over the disgruntled target for punitive actions. In this sense it becomes less about the target and more about sustaining BAU. Like with the a Mafia Don they don't take out a lieutenant for the seriousness of their acts/error but as a warning to others to never resist the authority of the Don.

Words like ‘gangsterism’ are not being used to inflame the situation but because they are appropriate and correctly describe the current situation of what is happening in reality.
https://www.rt.com/news/452274-venezuela-us-intervention-gangsterism/

Furthermore I suspect the drivers are not so much that the USA can get it's grubby hands on the Oil wealthy and business opportunities but that Russia and China do not, and that they end up losing the Billion$ they have invested there. In this sense one truly needs to be able walk in the TPTB shoes to be totally empathetic to their mindset and realise they are quite happy to let the whole house burn down rather than allow Russia or China to have a seat at the dining room table.

And, it doesn't matter how much it costs and it doesn't matter what the rest of the world thinks about that.  You mentioned Trump - it is my view (unprovable) that had Hillary won we would be at precisely the same place today. She'd be crowing about freedom and democracy, the poor suffering peoples in Venezuela too and giving the very same orders as Trump is. I think that is self-evident and would obviously be the case had she won.

imho Chavez and especially Maduro are rank amateurs in geopolitics and the nature of the USA. They are and have been ill advised - even if they were listening to anyone else bar themselves. They cannot imagine to lengths the US would go to or the Opposition to destroy the nation in order to "win". Why? Because they simply do not cannot think like Power broker Psychopaths think. Neither properly planned ahead of the Game. They needed a Russian naval and air force bases in Venezuela over 3 years ago in preparation for what was coming. When Trump was elected Maduro did nothing. He should have run the election in late 2018 and spent that time setting things up. They should have been taking info to the UNSC and bring multiple Court actions against the USA, and the Corporations/Banks too. Should have found alt oil industry spare parts, had China oil companies all over the place and another source for the additives needed to pump and refine their extra thick oil.

But people tend to be "hopeful" and never really expect the worse. As we should know already about people's "feelings" about climate change action .... the most minor step is seen as grandiose step forward in the battle to not break 1.5C - not going to happen. Maduro is toast. But then comes the civil war, the next rebellion, the terrorist acts against the new Military Junta in Venezuela, the torching of the rich people's homes. It won;t be pretty imho. But I could be wrong and nirvana will break once the poor see what a great humanitarian and leader Juan Guaido is.

ROFL and blah blah blah :)
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 25, 2019, 03:36:01 AM
More History

Quote
Venezuela coup linked to Bush team

Specialists in the 'dirty wars' of the Eighties encouraged the plotters who tried to topple President Chavez The Observer (UK)By: Ed Vulliamy, April, 21 2002 NEW YORK

-The failed coup in Venezuela was closely tied to senior officials in the US government, The Observer has established. They have long histories in the 'dirty wars' of the 1980s, and links to death squads working in Central America at that time. Washington's involvement in the turbulent events that briefly removed left-wing leader Hugo Chavez from power last weekend resurrects fears about US ambitions in the hemisphere. It also also deepens doubts about policy in the region being made by appointees to the Bush administration, all of whom owe their careers to serving in the dirty wars under President Reagan. [including one John Bolton]

One of them, Elliot Abrams, who gave a nod to the attempted Venezuelan coup, has a conviction for misleading Congress over the infamous Iran-Contra affair. The Bush administration has tried to distance itself from the coup. It immediately endorsed the new government under businessman Pedro Carmona. But the coup was sent dramatically into reverse after 48 hours.

Now officials at the Organisation of American States and other diplomatic sources, talking to The Observer, assert that the US administration was not only aware the coup was about to take place, but had sanctioned it, presuming it to be destined for success.

The visits [to the US ] by Venezuelans plotting a coup, including Carmona himself, began, say sources, 'several months ago', and continued until weeks before the putsch last weekend. The visitors were received at the White House by the man President George Bush tasked to be his key policy-maker for Latin America, Otto Reich. Reich is a right-wing Cuban-American who, under Reagan, ran the Office for Public Diplomacy. It reported in theory to the State Department, but Reich was shown by congressional investigations to report directly to Reagan's National Security Aide, Colonel Oliver North, in the White House.

North was convicted and shamed for his role in Iran-Contra, whereby arms bought by busting US sanctions on Iran were sold to the Contra guerrillas and death squads, in revolt against the Marxist government in Nicaragua. Reich also has close ties to Venezuela, having been made ambassador to Caracas in 1986. His appointment was contested both by Democrats in Washington and political leaders in the Latin American country. The objections were overridden as Venezuela sought access to the US oil market. 

Read on: http://www.mrclancy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Venezuela-Coup.pdf
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 25, 2019, 03:40:18 AM
Venezuela: Crowding Out the Opposition
Javier Corrales, Michael Penfold-Becerra
Journal of Democracy
Johns Hopkins University Press
Volume 18, Number 2, April 2007
pp. 99-113
10.1353/jod.2007.0020
https://muse.jhu.edu/article/214433/summary
(https://muse.jhu.edu/article/214433/pdfimage)
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 25, 2019, 03:47:16 AM
Quote
Report: Coups
Venezuela’s Wounded Bodies: Nation and Imagination During the 2002 Coup
Fernando Coronil
Pages 33-39 | Published online: 31 May 2016
Download citation https://doi.org/10.1080/10714839.2011.11725529 (Req Access)

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/10714839.2011.11725529?journalCode=rnac20

Quote
Report: Empire And Dissent
Venezuela: Defying Globalization’s Logic
Steve Ellner
Pages 20-24 | Published online: 31 May 2016

    Download citation https://doi.org/10.1080/10714839.2005.11722355 (req. access)

Extract below "... in the face of US hostility and an aggressive US-supported domestic opposition has important implications for progressive Latin American struggles."
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 25, 2019, 04:05:50 AM
History and Elections

https://books.google.co.nz/books?id=nBjWCgAAQBAJ&lpg=PP1&ots=KddR4xlEXB&dq=2015%20elections%20venezuela%20&lr&pg=PR10#v=onepage&q=2015%20elections%20venezuela&f=false

https://books.google.co.nz/books?id=jIV9BgAAQBAJ&lpg=PR11&ots=v6R2tGfgSK&dq=2015%20elections%20venezuela%20&lr&pg=PR11#v=onepage&q=2015%20elections%20venezuela&f=false



Quote
Computer Science > Social and Information Networks
Political Bots and the Manipulation of Public Opinion in Venezuela
Michelle Forelle, Phil Howard, Andrés Monroy-Hernández, Saiph Savage
(Submitted on 25 Jul 2015)

    Social and political bots have a small but strategic role in Venezuelan political conversations. These automated scripts generate content through social media platforms and then interact with people. In this preliminary study on the use of political bots in Venezuela, we analyze the tweeting, following and retweeting patterns for the accounts of prominent Venezuelan politicians and prominent Venezuelan bots. We find that bots generate a very small proportion of all the traffic about political life in Venezuela. Bots are used to retweet content from Venezuelan politicians but the effect is subtle in that less than 10 percent of all retweets come from bot-related platforms.

Nonetheless, we find that the most active bots are those used by Venezuela's radical opposition.

Bots are pretending to be political leaders, government agencies and political parties more than citizens. Finally, bots are promoting innocuous political events more than attacking opponents or spreading misinformation.

Comments:    8 pages, 3 figures
Subjects:    Social and Information Networks (cs.SI); Computers and Society (cs.CY); Physics and Society (physics.soc-ph)
https://arxiv.org/abs/1507.07109 (req. access)

Latin America’s New Turbulence: Can Democracy Win in Venezuela?
Benigno Alarcón, Ángel E. Álvarez, Manuel Hidalgo
Journal of Democracy
Johns Hopkins University Press
Volume 27, Number 2, April 2016
pp. 20-34
10.1353/jod.2016.0030(https://muse.jhu.edu/article/614515/pdfimage)

The Authoritarian Resurgence: Autocratic Legalism in Venezuela
Javier Corrales
Journal of Democracy
Johns Hopkins University Press
Volume 26, Number 2, April 2015
pp. 37-51
10.1353/jod.2015.0031
(https://muse.jhu.edu/article/578606/pdfimage)
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 25, 2019, 07:55:43 AM
History and News - this Wikipedia page is unusually very detailed with a very long list of refs

Quote
2019 Venezuelan presidential crisis
A crisis concerning who is the legitimate President of Venezuela has been underway since 10 January 2019, when the opposition-majority National Assembly declared that incumbent Nicolás Maduro's 2018 reelection was invalid and the body declared its president, Juan Guaidó, to be acting president of the nation.

The process and results of the May 2018 Venezuelan presidential election were widely disputed. The National Assembly declared Maduro illegitimate on the day of his second inauguration, citing the 1999 Constitution of Venezuela enacted under Hugo Chávez, Maduro's predecessor; in response, the pro-Maduro Supreme Tribunal of Justice said the National Assembly's declaration was unconstitutional.

Mass demonstrations throughout Venezuela and the world occurred on 23 January when Guaidó called for Venezuelans to protest against Maduro. Demonstrations in support of Maduro and Chavismo took place as well. Special meetings in the Organization of American States (OAS) on 24 January and in the United Nations Security Council on 26 January were held but no consensus was reached. Secretary-General of the United Nations António Guterres called for dialogue.

Maduro's government says the crisis is a coup d'état led by the United States to topple him and control the country's oil reserves. Guaidó denies the coup allegations, saying peaceful volunteers back his movement.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Venezuelan_presidential_crisis

Quote
National Assembly (Venezuela)
1999 Constitution
President Hugo Chávez was first elected in December 1998 on a platform calling for a National Constituent Assembly to be convened to draft a new constitution for Venezuela. Chávez's argument was that the existing political system, under the earlier 1961 Constitution, had become isolated from the people. This won broad acceptance, particularly among Venezuela's poorest classes, who had seen a significant decline in their living standards over the previous decade and a half.

The National Constituent Assembly (ANC), consisting of 131 elected individuals, convened in August 1999 to begin rewriting the constitution. In free elections, voters gave all but six seats to persons associated with the Chávez movement. The Venezuelan people approved the ANC's proposed constitution in a referendum on 15 December 1999. It was promulgated by the ANC and came into effect the following 20 December. 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Assembly_(Venezuela)#1999_Constitution


Quote
2017 constitutional crisis
On 29 March 2017, the Supreme Court (TSJ) stripped the Assembly of its powers, ruling that all powers would be transferred to the Supreme Court. The previous year the Court found the Assembly in contempt for swearing in legislators whose elections had been deemed invalid by the court. The 2017 court judgement declared that the "situation of contempt" meant that the Assembly could not exercise its powers.

The action transferred powers from the Assembly, which had an opposition majority since January 2016, to the Supreme Court, which has a majority of government loyalists. The move was denounced by the opposition with Assembly President Julio Borges describing the action as a coup d'état by President Nicolás Maduro. However, after public protests and condemnation by international bodies, the court's decision was reversed a few days later on 1 April.

On 4 August 2017, Venezuela convened a new Constituent Assembly after a special election which was boycotted by opposition parties. The new Constituent Assembly is intended to rewrite the constitution; it also has wide legal powers allowing it to rule above all other state institutions. The Constituent Assembly meets within the Federal Legislative Palace; the leadership of the National Assembly have said it would continue its work as a legislature and it will still continue to meet in the same building.

On 18 August the Constituent Assembly summoned the members of the National Assembly to attend a ceremony acknowledging its legal superiority; the opposition members of the National Assembly boycotted the event. In response, the Constitutional Assembly stripped the National Assembly of its legislative powers, assuming them for itself.

It justified the move by claiming that the National Assembly had failed to prevent what it called "opposition violence" in the form of the 2017 Venezuelan protests. The constitutionality of this move has been questioned, and it has been condemned by several foreign governments and international bodies
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Assembly_(Venezuela)#2017_constitutional_crisis
Quote
Political composition
The first election of deputies to the new National Assembly took place on 30 July 2000. President Hugo Chávez' Fifth Republic Movement won 92 seats (56%). The opposition did not participate in the 2005 elections, and as a result gained no seats, while the Fifth Republic Movement gained 114 (69%).

In 2007 a number of parties, including the Fifth Republic Movement, merged to create the United Socialist Party of Venezuela (PSUV), which in January 2009 held 139 of the 169 seats (82%).

In the 2010 election, for which the number of deputies was reduced to 165, the PSUV won 96 seats (58%), the opposition electoral coalition Democratic Unity Roundtable (MUD) 65, and Patria Para Todos won 2.

At the 2015 parliamentary election, the MUD won 109 of the 164 general seats and all three indigenous seats, which gave them a supermajority in the National Assembly; while the government's own coalition, the Great Patriotic Pole, won the remaining 55 seats. Voter turnout exceeded 70 percent.

The result, however, was marred by the January 2016 suspension from the NA by the Supreme Tribunal of Justice of 4 elected MPs from Amazonas state due to alleged voter fraud and election irregularities. 3 of the 4 were opposition deputies and one was from the GPP
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Assembly_(Venezuela)#Political_composition

--- --- ---


Quote
2015 Venezuelan parliamentary election

Parliamentary elections were held in Venezuela on 6 December 2015 to elect the 164 deputies and three indigenous representatives of the National Assembly. They were the fourth parliamentary elections to take place after the 1999 constitution, which abolished the bicameral system in favour of a unicameral parliament, and the first to take place after the death of President Hugo Chávez.

Despite claims from the opposition of a possible last-minute cancellation, the elections took place as scheduled, with the majority of polls showing the Democratic Unity Roundtable (MUD) holding a wide lead over the ruling United Socialist Party of Venezuela (PSUV) and its wider alliance, the Great Patriotic Pole (GPP).

The political landscape leading up to the elections was heavily influenced by the severe economic crisis faced by the country, as well as a series of protests that took place in 2014, after which former Chacao mayor and leader of Popular Will, Leopoldo López, was detained and sentenced to 14 years in prison. The scarcity of basic goods and high inflation were the central topics of discussion, with each party blaming their opponent as the cause.

Introducing economic policies to counter the crisis, as well as granting amnesty to political prisoners, was the main campaign pledge of the MUD. The ruling PSUV, on the other hand, ran a campaign focused on overcoming what they called an "economic war" led by the right-wing against the Venezuelan people, as well as defending the legacy of Chávez and the social policies introduced during his presidency.

The result was a decisive defeat for the PSUV, which lost control of the Assembly for the first time since 1999. The MUD, composed of politicians opposed to the government of both Chávez and his successor, won 109 seats, and with the support of the three indigenous representatives, gained a supermajority of 112 seats against 55 won by the GPP.

In terms of popular vote, the MUD received 7.7 million votes, an increase of 2.4 million from the 2010 elections, becoming the most voted party in Venezuelan electoral history. In comparison, the GPP only managed to gain an additional 200,000 votes, to total 5.6 million votes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Venezuelan_parliamentary_election
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on February 25, 2019, 08:13:23 AM

More than three million Venezuelans have fled the country in the years since the crisis began, and those who remain have seen their quality of life deteriorate to previously unthinkable levels.


Rob do you happen to have a legitimate credible source for that figure of 3 million - in years?

Over how many years? Show me the figures that make up this 3 million please.

Sure. That number is from the UN :

https://www.unhcr.org/news/press/2018/11/5be4192b4/number-refugees-migrants-venezuela-reaches-3-million.html

Here is the breakdown :

Quote
According to data from national immigration authorities and other sources, countries in Latin America and the Caribbean host an estimated 2.4 million refugees and migrants from Venezuela, while other regions account for the rest.

Countries in Latin America and the Caribbean have largely maintained a commendable open-door policy to refugees and migrants from Venezuela; however, their reception capacity is severely strained, requiring a more robust and immediate response from the international community if this generosity and solidarity are to continue,” said Eduardo Stein, UNHCR-IOM Joint Special Representative for Refugees and Migrants from Venezuela.

Colombia has the highest number of refugees and migrants from Venezuela, a total of over one million. It is followed by Peru, with over half a million, Ecuador over 220,000, Argentina 130,000, Chile over 100,000 and Brazil 85,000.

In addition to South American countries, countries in Central America and the Caribbean also recorded increasing arrivals of refugees and migrants from Venezuela. Panama, for example, is now hosting 94,000 Venezuelans.

If things don't change in Venezuela, the UN expects another 2 million in 2019 :
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-migration/two-million-more-venezuelans-could-flee-next-year-u-n-idUSKBN1OD2CD
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 25, 2019, 08:21:12 AM
Novara Media - Premiered on 5 Feb 2019

As crisis engulfs Venezuela, Aaron Bastani looks at the political and economic history of the country since Hugo Chavez won power in 1998. His conclusion? That sanctions and oil prices are to blame for the country's economic plight, while it boasts a far greater tradition of democracy than critics often realise let alone dare to admit.


Quote
03:23 "........ when Hugo Chavez was elected as a result of democratic elections in 1998 the country he inherited was in a parlous situation. In fact GDP per capita in the country in 1998 was at the same level it had been in 1963. And in fact it had fallen by a third from the all-time high of 1978 twenty years earlier.

What's more the purchasing power of the average salary was one-third what had been twenty years before meaning that the situation he inherited was in many ways resembling the economy of Venezuela today."


Quote
03:50 ".... thus if we want to make sense of the rise of Hugo Chavez and the popularity of what's been called the Bolivarian revolution we have to understand the profound economic crisis into which he stepped. He did not assume the mantle of economic prosperity and success, anything but.

What's more, the first 12 to 14 years of the Bolivarian revolution named after Simon de Bolivar one of the mythical political figures of Latin America 19th Century was one of growth and economic expansion.

GDP per capita grew by a factor of more than three [x 300% ] between 1998 and 2014. The economic success of Venezuela over that period meant it pulled away from similar sized countries in the region such as Colombia, Peru and it even became wealthier than Argentina - on a per head basis for the first time since 1989.

So in short the first decade plus of the Hugo Chavez Administration was an economic success story for Venezuela - and NOT the socialist failure we're so often told."


Quote
5:00 "More importantly that economic growth redounded to the benefit of ordinary people. And there was undoubted progress in terms of expanded welfare provision across the country over the first 15 years of the Chavez administration.

By 2012 Venezuela had the lowest levels of inequality in the region with poverty falling from 70.8% in 1996 to 21 percent in 2010.

By the time of Chavez's death in 2013 more than 6% of GDP was spent on education. With citizens enjoying free daycare nurseries and university degrees.

While 21% of the population experienced malnourishment in 1998 by 2012 that figure had fallen to just 5 percent. Elsewhere infant mortality halved between 1990 and 2010, while the number of doctors relative to the population tripled [x 300% ] between 1998 and 2012.

Perhaps it's no surprise then what with its rising prosperous economy and increasingly far-reaching social welfare programs that just six years ago Venezuela was determined to be one of the happiest places to live on Earth."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STcepwXxwWA
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on February 25, 2019, 08:41:56 AM
Quote
and if it is, it's all the US's fault anyway.

Probably because it primarily is. Venezuela cannot sell it's Oil Resources because of the actions of the USA alone - long long before Maduro's re-election in May last year.

That's laughably false.
The US sanctions have next to NOTHING to do with the dire situation in Venezuela right now.

For starters, the US sanctions on Venezuela's oil industry (against PDVSA) were imposed Jan. 28, 2019, less than a month ago. And it has (after a one week dip) had little effect on the amount of Venezuelan oil imported into the US :
https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=W_EPC0_IM0_NUS-NVE_MBBLD&f=W

The problems with Venezuela's oil industry started decades ago, and notably accelerated under Maduro :

(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/9F32/production/_105345704_oil-nc.png)

The issue here is that Venezuela under Maduro did not spend any money on maintaining their oil production and refinement industries. The EIA puts it like this :

Quote
Reduced capital expenditures by state–owned oil and natural gas company Petròleos de Venezuela, S.A. (PdVSA) are resulting in foreign partners continuing to cut activities in the oil sector, making crude oil production losses increasingly widespread. With Venezuela’s heavy dependency on the oil industry, the country’s economy will likely continue to shrink, and that the runaway inflation will remain the mainstay at least in the short term.

https://www.eia.gov/beta/international/analysis.php?iso=VEN

And regarding your remark that "Venezuela cannot sell it's Oil Resources" the EIA has this interesting note that much of their production is used to pay off Russian debt :

Quote
Venezuela’s revenue from oil exports is severely constricted because only about half of the exports generate cash revenues. U.S. refiners are among the few customers that still remit cash payments. The remaining crude oil exports are sold domestically at a loss or sent as loan repayments to China and Russia (the repayments to Russia are sent to Nayara Energy’s (formerly Essar) Vadinar refinery in India to service debt that Venezuela owes to Russian oil company Rosneft, the co–owner of the Vadinar refinery).

Which explains why Russia is so interested in keeping Maduro in power.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 25, 2019, 08:44:11 AM
Little known facts:

In 1992 when Venezuela announced it would open its oil sector to foreign investment for the first time since 1976 when it nationalized its oil industry
https://www.cfr.org/blog/amid-political-uncertainties-venezuelas-oil-industry-situation-worsens

Venezuela has been open to "oil sector foreign investment" the entire time of the Chavistas Government.

Yes it made some changes - partial Re-Nationalization post-1998 - but that is no different than the UK Labour Party going to the next elections to re-Nationalize the British Rail .. after the disaster that "privatisation" has caused.

Before the late 1990s the entire Electricity system across Australia were a 100% State Government owned enterprise, from generation, fuel supply, train deliveries of coal to power stations, and the electricity Grids from Power Stations to your home or business via the State Govt owned and operated Retailer.

How's that for Socialism at work? No one was offering to invade Australia, institute Regime Change, nor to save the poor people from this evil.

Australia also had the cheapest electricity on Earth - then those Governments sold off those Assets in a Privatization  free-for-all and now the system is one of the most expensive on earth and a totally dysfunctional shit fight. 
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 25, 2019, 08:47:21 AM
AXIOS 24th Feb. 2019

Inside Trump's Venezuela pivot

Many observers see Trump's hawkish approach to Venezuela as a foreign policy aberration. In reality, though, it's pure Trump. Over a week of interviews, people with intimate knowledge of the president's thinking detailed to me why he's taken an unusually interventionist stance toward this country.

The key factors are instincts, personal relationships, aggressive advisers, and political opportunism.

Behind the scenes: A pivotal moment came in early 2017, when Lilian Tintori, the wife of political prisoner Leopoldo Lopez, met Trump in the Oval. The conversation wasn't planned, and the State Department didn't even know she was in the building; she had come for a meeting with Vice President Mike Pence that Sen. Marco Rubio arranged.

    Toward the end of their conversation, Pence said to Tintori, "I want to introduce you to somebody. Come this way," according to a source with direct knowledge. Then he and Rubio walked her into the Oval.

Trump had no idea who she was. But he was taken by their conversation, some details of which The Washington Post first reported. After a short talk, Trump handed his iPhone to his social media guru, Dan Scavino.

    "Take a picture, Dan," he ordered.

Scavino snapped a photo of Trump, Tintori, Rubio, and Pence. Then Trump drafted a caption to accompany the photo for Twitter.

    "What do you think, Marco?" the president asked, handing the phone to Rubio. "You can edit it if you want."
    Rubio eyeballed the tweet — sources dispute whether he changed anything — then handed the phone back to Trump, who hit send. And with that, the United States toughened its stance toward the Maduro regime.
    "At the time, we were like, 'Wow, he just stuck it to Maduro!'" said a source with direct knowledge of the conversation.

https://www.axios.com/venezuela-donald-trump-foreign-policy-strategy-7f04c3da-fd30-4038-8fd1-e057b15c7f83.html
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 25, 2019, 09:22:00 AM
Venezuela and Oil - The Coup in Venezuela, Explained - see graphic below

https://youtu.be/STcepwXxwWA?t=399


A pivotal moment came in early 2017, when Lilian Tintori, the wife of political prisoner Leopoldo Lopez, met Trump in the Oval.


Privately, Trump often talks about his fondness for the Venezuelan expats who frequent his golf club in Doral.

    "We have many Venezuelans living in the United States,” he said in a press conference last September 2018. "Many of them live in the Doral area of Miami. I've gotten to know them well. They are great, great people. We are going to take care of those people."

Oh yes, we must care about those Venezuelan Refugees who can still afford to go play a round of Golf at Trump's Mara-a-Lago Resort and Golf Club or at his Trump National Doral Golf Club @$450 per Player Tee Fees. ;)

(https://www.trumpgolfdoral.com/images/dynamic/getImage.gif?ID=100002199)

This next graphic tells the story clear enough I think about August 2017
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on February 25, 2019, 09:48:17 AM
This next graphic tells the story clear enough I think about August 2017
(https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2571.0;attach=116036;image)

OK. Let's think about what happened in August 2017.
Which US sanctions were imposed in August 2017 which supposedly crashed the Venezuelan oil production ?

OK. Here they are :

https://www.treasury.gov/press-center/press-releases/Pages/sm0145.aspx

Specifically : Sanctions against 8 individuals in the Maduro government.

None of that had any effect on the import of Venezuelan oil into the US :

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=W_EPC0_IM0_NUS-NVE_MBBLD&f=W

Quote
Today, the U.S. Department of the Treasury's Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC) designated eight individuals involved in organizing or otherwise supporting the creation of Venezuela's Constituent Assembly (Asamblea Constituyente or AC) and participating in anti-democratic actions pursuant to Executive Order (E.O.) 13692.  The AC, which seeks to rewrite the Venezuelan constitution and dissolve Venezuelan state institutions, was created through an undemocratic process instigated by Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro's government to subvert the will of the Venezuelan people.  OFAC designated President Maduro on July 31, 2017, the day after AC elections were held.  The AC was sworn in on August 4 and, in its first session on August 5, ousted Attorney General Luisa Marvelia Ortega Diaz, who had ordered an investigation into the possible AC election fraud, and replaced her with designated individual Tarek William Saab.

And none of this has anything to do with Venezuela's oil production.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Neven on February 25, 2019, 10:00:27 AM
So, Rob, are you with Trump or with Putin on this one?  ;D

Nothing to do with oil:
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on February 25, 2019, 10:20:42 AM
So, Rob, are you with Trump or with Putin on this one?  ;D

Trump. Putin. Maduro.

Three autocrats in charge of :

- The biggest oil producing country in the world, and
- The biggest oil exporting country in the world, and
- The biggest oil reserves in the world.

I don't like either of these guys.
Not just because they are autocrats, but also because they will die before they would do anything about our addiction to fossil fuels.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 25, 2019, 10:48:39 AM
And none of this has anything to do with Venezuela's oil production.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion Rob. What I find really sad is how so many people refuse to look past the rhetoric and look into the details and the historical facts about the whole thing. I think it's sad that you might imagine that a single url link is going to change my mind or by itself undermine the hundreds of other facts. Like seriously, are you serious or only playing "forum debating games" again? 

I have collected a fairly large amount of sources on this thread. Both pro and con Maduro etc. Your choice if you wish to look at any of it and think about it deeper or if you wish to invite / bait others into fruitless arguments about what those sources say. They are offered up as a free service for each person to look at and draw their own conclusions. I am not telling other people what they should accept, reject, believe or not believe.

I am not shoving my own personal opinion down people's throats here. I am not seeking to an all out fight over Venezuela or the best ups over what the word "socialism" means and how it MUST be applied and how that should change EVERYONE'S OPINION of how they view Venezuela.

I have already stated clearly in a post above that frankly I do not care what happens in Venezuela. I stated why I am presenting this information though. Very clearly. Do I have to repeat that again and again and again, or could once be enough? :)

If however you have had a "Damascus Moment" and now no longer believe that Trump is a Liar or a Fascist and a Traitor, or that Abrams is a freedom loving hero for Nicaraguans, or ex-CIA Director Pompeo always tells the truth, and that John Bolton is a geopolitical nation building genius equivalent to a Ghandi then nothing will get through to you or the others who believe all the Fake news and outright lies being told about Venezuela.

imho I think everyone on this forum should view this Video. It's the best most balanced, calm, clear, most accurate, most telling summary of the facts I have found so far.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STcepwXxwWA
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 25, 2019, 10:56:04 AM
And none of this has anything to do with Venezuela's oil production.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion Rob. What I find really sad is how so many people refuse to look past the rhetoric and look into the details and the historical facts about the whole thing. I think it's sad that you might imagine that a single url link is going to change my mind or by itself undermine the hundreds of other facts. Like seriously, are you serious or only playing "forum debating games" again? 

I have collected a fairly large amount of sources on this thread. Both pro and con Maduro etc. Your choice if you wish to look at any of it and think about it deeper or if you wish to invite / bait others into fruitless arguments about what those sources say. They are offered up as a free service for each person to look at and draw their own conclusions. I am not telling other people what they should accept, reject, believe or not believe.

I am not shoving my own personal opinion down people's throats here. I am not seeking to an all out fight over Venezuela or going to engage in beat ups over what the word "socialism" means and how it MUST be applied and how that should change EVERYONE'S OPINION of how they view Venezuela.

I have already stated clearly in a post above that frankly I do not care what happens in Venezuela. I stated why I am presenting this information though. Very clearly. Do I have to repeat that again and again and again, or could once be enough? :)

If however you have had a "Damascus Moment" and now no longer believe that Trump is a Liar or a Fascist and a Traitor, or that Abrams is a freedom loving hero for Nicaraguans, or ex-CIA Director Pompeo always tells the truth, and that John Bolton is a geopolitical nation building genius equivalent to a Ghandi then nothing will get through to you or the others who believe all the Fake news and outright lies being told about Venezuela.

imho I think everyone on this forum should view this Video. It's the best most balanced, calm, clear, most accurate, most telling summary of the facts I have found so far.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STcepwXxwWA
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 25, 2019, 11:11:59 AM
The Grayzone
Published on 18 Feb 2019

Venezuela's foreign minister on 'failed' coup, the new Non-Aligned Movement and the UN Charter

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpI_oEZrkxE

Oh, btw there are 155 nations of 200 in the UN who do not recognise Guaido or support this US Empire Coup attempt - that's over 75% nations representing well over 80% of the global population.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 25, 2019, 01:53:05 PM

OK. Let's think about what happened in August 2017.

Which US sanctions were imposed in August 2017 which supposedly crashed the Venezuelan oil production ?

OK. Here they are :

https://www.treasury.gov/press-center/press-releases/Pages/sm0145.aspx

Specifically : Sanctions against 8 individuals in the Maduro government.

None of that had any effect on the import of Venezuelan oil into the US :

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=W_EPC0_IM0_NUS-NVE_MBBLD&f=W

And none of this has anything to do with Venezuela's oil production.

That's your opinion. You're entitled to it.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jul/31/us-venezuela-sanctions-nicolas-maduro

https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/sanctions/OFAC-Enforcement/Pages/20170825.aspx

https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/sanctions/programs/pages/venezuela.aspx

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-venezuela-sanctions-idUSKCN1B5216

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/25/world/americas/venezuela-sanctions-maduro-trump.html

https://ve.usembassy.gov/treasury-sanctions-ten-venezuelan-government-officials-november-9-2017/

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-41056804

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/row/IF10715.pdf

My advice is Research first - Speak second.

Venezuela can not sell it's oil internationally - CITGO outs make no difference - as Venezuela cannot repatriate any Income Revenues from the USA related to CITGO or PDSVA or any other entities or any of it's Assets - Venezuela cannot access it;s $2.4 Billion in Gold Bullion to pay for imports or other Govt debt obligations while it's income has been slashed due to sanctions and sanctions related constraints - Venezuela is unable to raise capital/loans - Venezuela is unable to operate in the global financial system or trade system as a direct impact of US initiated Sanctions beginning when Obama was still in Office that have become increasingly more draconian.

Venezuela Oil production is falling for multiple reasons, incl. but not limited to inability to import maintenance/repair equipment or parts inability to import special products to "thin" oil in pipelines and refining etc. There is no ppoint fixing breakdowns to increase production when one cannot export it, or if they do export it they cannot recieve payment for that exp[orts. Multinational Oil Companies partners be they US, Russian or Chinese or European firms are not going to sink funds into maintenance, repairs, or keep pumping Oil and so on when Venezuela cannot export it's primary product Oil.

Therefore Venezuela can continue to export it's oil/petrol to the USA and sell it via Citgo but it is blocked from repatriating any of that US Income. Storage facilities for Oil and petroleum in Venezuela is now maxed out, meaning production will need to be cut further as they cannot export those current reserves anywhere in any significant volume and receive timely payments for the exports.

Venezuela has been financially and economically and Oil Export wise been strangled by the cumulative US originated Sanctions.

Others can feel free to make up things as they go and/or believe something is 'reality'.

Fine by me.

imho this video presentation below is the best summary of what Venezuela is dealing with now and the related political and economic hiostory.  It's the best most balanced, calm, clear, most accurate, most telling summary of the facts I have found so far on  Venezuela. imho I think everyone on this forum should view this Video should want to have a more rounded holistic knowledge of Venezuela and the USAs direct role in this 'crisis'.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STcepwXxwWA
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 25, 2019, 01:59:28 PM

OK. Let's think about what happened in August 2017.

Which US sanctions were imposed in August 2017 which supposedly crashed the Venezuelan oil production ?

OK. Here they are :

https://www.treasury.gov/press-center/press-releases/Pages/sm0145.aspx

Specifically : Sanctions against 8 individuals in the Maduro government.

None of that had any effect on the import of Venezuelan oil into the US :

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=W_EPC0_IM0_NUS-NVE_MBBLD&f=W

And none of this has anything to do with Venezuela's oil production.

That's your opinion. You're entitled to it.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jul/31/us-venezuela-sanctions-nicolas-maduro

https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/sanctions/OFAC-Enforcement/Pages/20170825.aspx

https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/sanctions/programs/pages/venezuela.aspx

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-venezuela-sanctions-idUSKCN1B5216

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/25/world/americas/venezuela-sanctions-maduro-trump.html

https://ve.usembassy.gov/treasury-sanctions-ten-venezuelan-government-officials-november-9-2017/

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-41056804

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/row/IF10715.pdf

My advice is Research first - Speak second.

Venezuela can not sell it's oil internationally - CITGO outs make no difference - as Venezuela cannot repatriate any Income Revenues from the USA related to CITGO or PDSVA or any other entities or any of it's Assets - Venezuela cannot access it;s $2.4 Billion in Gold Bullion to pay for imports or other Govt debt obligations while it's income has been slashed due to sanctions and sanctions related constraints - Venezuela is unable to raise capital/loans - Venezuela is unable to operate in the global financial system or trade system as a direct impact of US initiated Sanctions beginning when Obama was still in Office that have become increasingly more draconian.

Venezuela Oil production is falling for multiple reasons, incl. but not limited to inability to import maintenance/repair equipment or parts inability to import special products to "thin" oil in pipelines and refining etc. There is no point fixing breakdowns to increase production when one cannot export it, or if they do export it they cannot receive payment for that exports. Multinational Oil Companies partners be they US, Russian or Chinese or European firms are not going to sink funds into maintenance, repairs, or keep pumping Oil and so on when Venezuela cannot export it's primary product Oil.

Therefore Venezuela can continue to export it's oil/petrol to the USA and sell it via Citgo but it is blocked from repatriating any of that US Income. Storage facilities for Oil and petroleum in Venezuela is now maxed out, meaning production will need to be cut further as they cannot export those current reserves anywhere in any significant volume and receive timely payments for the exports.

Venezuela has been financially and economically and Oil Export wise been strangled by the cumulative US originated Sanctions.

Others can feel free to make up things as they go and/or believe something is 'reality'.

Fine by me.

imho this video presentation below is the best summary of what Venezuela is dealing with now and the related political and economic history.  It's the best most balanced, calm, clear, most accurate, most telling summary of the facts I have found so far on  Venezuela. imho I think everyone on this forum should view this Video should want to have a more rounded holistic knowledge of Venezuela and the USAs direct role in this 'crisis'.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STcepwXxwWA
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 25, 2019, 02:00:55 PM

OK. Let's think about what happened in August 2017.

Which US sanctions were imposed in August 2017 which supposedly crashed the Venezuelan oil production ?

OK. Here they are :

https://www.treasury.gov/press-center/press-releases/Pages/sm0145.aspx

Specifically : Sanctions against 8 individuals in the Maduro government.

None of that had any effect on the import of Venezuelan oil into the US :

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=W_EPC0_IM0_NUS-NVE_MBBLD&f=W

And none of this has anything to do with Venezuela's oil production.

That's your opinion. You're entitled to it.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jul/31/us-venezuela-sanctions-nicolas-maduro

https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/sanctions/OFAC-Enforcement/Pages/20170825.aspx

https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/sanctions/programs/pages/venezuela.aspx

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-venezuela-sanctions-idUSKCN1B5216

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/25/world/americas/venezuela-sanctions-maduro-trump.html

https://ve.usembassy.gov/treasury-sanctions-ten-venezuelan-government-officials-november-9-2017/

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-41056804

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/row/IF10715.pdf

My advice is Research first - Speak second.

Venezuela can not sell it's oil internationally - CITGO outs make no difference - as Venezuela cannot repatriate any Income Revenues from the USA related to CITGO or PDSVA or any other entities or any of it's Assets - Venezuela cannot access it;s $2.4 Billion in Gold Bullion to pay for imports or other Govt debt obligations while it's income has been slashed due to sanctions and sanctions related constraints - Venezuela is unable to raise capital/loans - Venezuela is unable to operate in the global financial system or trade system as a direct impact of US initiated Sanctions beginning when Obama was still in Office that have become increasingly more draconian.

Venezuela Oil production is falling for multiple reasons, incl. but not limited to inability to import maintenance/repair equipment or parts inability to import special products to "thin" oil in pipelines and refining etc. There is no point fixing breakdowns to increase production when one cannot export it, or if they do export it they cannot receive payment for that exports. Multinational Oil Companies partners be they US, Russian or Chinese or European firms are not going to sink funds into maintenance, repairs, or keep pumping Oil and so on when Venezuela cannot export it's primary product Oil.

Therefore Venezuela can continue to export it's oil/petrol to the USA and sell it via Citgo but it is blocked from repatriating any of that US Income. Storage facilities for Oil and petroleum in Venezuela is now maxed out, meaning production will need to be cut further as they cannot export those current reserves anywhere in any significant volume and receive timely payments for the exports.

Venezuela has been financially and economically and Oil Export wise been strangled by the cumulative US originated Sanctions.

Others can feel free to make up things as they go and/or believe something is 'reality'.

Fine by me.

imho this video presentation below is the best summary of what Venezuela is dealing with now and the related political and economic history.  It's the best most balanced, calm, clear, most accurate, most telling summary of the facts I have found so far on  Venezuela. imho I think everyone on this forum should view this Video should want to have a more rounded holistic knowledge of Venezuela and the USAs direct role in this 'crisis'.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STcepwXxwWA
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 25, 2019, 02:09:46 PM
This is what comes from the mind of Psychopath who does not see anything wrong in doing what he just did. All his Psychopathic friends and associates in the WH and Congress also think it was great and can't see what the problem is. That's because this is how Psychopaths think.


 ‘Sick & twisted’: US Senator Rubio tweets picture of Gaddafi’s murder as a threat to Maduro
Published time: 25 Feb, 2019

 US Senator Marco Rubio has posted a picture of the brutal murder of late Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi in a less-than-subtle threat to Venezuela’s Maduro. Twitter blasted Rubio as a manic warmonger… who has extremely poor taste.

The two pictures –one showing Gaddafi while still in power, the other showing the Libyan leader being tortured minutes before his brutal murder– were posted by Sen. Rubio (R-FL) on Twitter without any caption. Yet, given his open calls for an armed insurrection in the Latin American country to depose President Nicolas Maduro, the message was clear.

    Because nothing says human rights like gloating over a human being getting sodomized to death with a bayonet.
    — WikiLeaks (@wikileaks) February 24, 2019

while a few Twitteratti supported Rubio's vision of Maduro's demise, the majority blasted the senator over an extreme lack of taste or decency.

    The Venezuelan opposition's most ardent cheerleader is a bloodthristy crackpot. For most of the peoples of the world this pic represents the destruction of a nation, slave auctions, civil war. For Rubio it's a gloating message 2 Venezuela. Toe the line or we'll do this to you too pic.twitter.com/hi3O0Cpqza
    — Lizzie Phelan (@LizziePhelan) February 24, 2019

    .@marcorubio horrifically tweets images of revolutionary leader Muammar Gaddafi’s brutal execution at hands of US-backed jihadis in Libya just one day after the US failed to invade VZ under the pretext of humanitarian aid.

    The Bolivarian Republic is resisting his sick plan. https://t.co/NY5X91Dq3f
    — Anya Parampil (@anyaparampil) February 24, 2019

    Marco Rubio just posted a violent, graphic death threat. If any of the rest of us posted this, we'd be suspended for it. https://t.co/bia3w1XCwA
    — Palmer Report (@PalmerReport) February 24, 2019

    Marco Rubio's feed has become like a manic, paranoid, regime-change-demanding bot account. Would probably be investigated for suspicious activity by the Twitter authorities if he was not a US Senator pic.twitter.com/sTFfh7QQpZ
    — Michael Tracey (@mtracey) February 24, 2019

Many noted that Libya is not the best example of the US bringing its democracy overseas, but arguably the worst one. With the slave trade there on the rise, the country is effectively fractured into several warring statelets, with gangs of armed ‘democrats’ fighting for control.

    Muammar Qadhafi was brutally murdered (sodomized with a bayonet) by Salafi-jihadist NATO proxies (one of whom later blew himself up in Manchester, England, massacring dozens)
    Rubio is openly threatening to do the same to the elected president of Venezuela
https://t.co/urpFHaCJlI
    — Ben Norton (@BenjaminNorton) February 24, 2019

    Marco Rubio just posted photos of Gaddafi being lynched in an open death threat to Maduro. Libya is now a slave state thanks to US. Fuck you Marco, you’re a deranged piece of shit who should immediately resign https://t.co/h0hfseEKJl
    — Abby Martin (@AbbyMartin) February 24, 2019

Via Twitter and RT
https://www.rt.com/news/452329-rubio-gaddafi-venezuela-tweet/
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 25, 2019, 04:06:21 PM
Psychopath, sociopath, narcissist, idiot, arrogant egotistical self-righteous creep; what difference does it make which words are used?  He will still be living in denial and Americans will continue to re-elect him for years to come.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 26, 2019, 03:41:22 AM
Democracy Now!
Published on 22 Feb 2019

"This Is Not Humanitarian Aid"

A Maduro Critic in Venezuela Slams U.S. Plan to Push Regime Change

24 minutes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PH3AfGO-RvU
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 26, 2019, 03:44:57 AM
Democracy Now!
Published on 25 Feb 2019

The Coup Has Failed & Now the U.S. Is Looking to Wage War: Venezuelan Foreign Minister Speaks Out

We go to Caracas, Venezuela, for an update on the escalating stand off between President Nicolás Maduro and opposition leader and self-proclaimed president Juan Guaidó. Guaidó claims he is preparing to deliver humanitarian aid from the Colombian border Saturday. Maduro has rejected the plan, saying the effort is part of a broader attempt to overthrow his regime.

This comes as Trump’s special envoy to Venezuela and right-wing hawk, Elliott Abrams, is leading a U.S. delegation traveling by military aircraft to the Colombian border, supposedly to help deliver the aid.

The United Nations, the Red Cross and other relief organizations have refused to work with the U.S. on delivering that aid to Venezuela, which they say is politically motivated.

We speak with Venezuelan sociologist Edgardo Lander, a member of the Citizen’s Platform in Defense of the Constitution. “This certainly is not humanitarian aid, and it’s not oriented with any humanitarian aims,” Lander says. This is clearly a coup carried out by the United States government with its allies, with the Lima Group and the extreme right wing in Venezuela.”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dim9uOsDuI
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 26, 2019, 04:03:50 AM
From the Democracy Now! video above
A Maduro Critic in Venezuela Slams U.S. Plan to Push Regime Change

Quote
We speak with Venezuelan sociologist Professor Edgardo Lander, a member of the Citizen’s Platform in Defense of the Constitution.

6.00 ".... If the United States Government were really interested in democracy, in human rights, and the humanitarian situation of the Venezuelan population the first thing they will have to do is to stop the blockade that's impacting the Venezuelan people enormously.

As the Venezuelan government has extreme difficulties in gaining access to foreign markets it's trade is made extremely difficult because the whole financial system is in one way or another controlled by the United States and this blockade limits the possibilities of access to trade
partners etc.

On the other hand enormous amounts of money billions of dollars in USA in Venezuelan assets (Cash in banks) had been taken over by the US government and its absolutely cynical that the US government is claiming to be worried about the humanitarian situation Venezuelans offering a few million dollars [in FOOD AID ] when billions of dollars are being kept away from the Venezuelan government capacity to respond to the deep crisis of the Venezuelans are facing.

There is this threat of going into Venezuela no matter what. The hawks, and in the Neocons that accompany Trump in these policies are well known - these are people like Elliott Abrams or John Bolton that have had well known trajectories of military interventions in different places of the world and obviously there's no concern whatsoever for the lives of Venezuelan people.

The situation is so tense that the trajectories could be the spark that starts a violent even civil war situation in the country. So the absolute need to find some sort of solution some sort of negotiation that would stop this escalation of violence is absolutely critical and this has to be done soon because Saturday is a very critical day."

I am unaware how many times things like this have to said before The Deniers (grin) start listening to what is being said and stop arguing about it by imagineering they know so much more than Professors like this who live there and not Maduro supporters.

Like how can people be so blind and deaf to the mountain of contrary facts that counter Donald Trump's and John Bolton's and Juan Guaido's lying rhetoric? It's truly sad how dumbed down and self-deluded the bulk of the American people (and many in Europe) have become. Even Bernie Sanders is not immune to this sophistry and lies.

People need to see that they are taking the word of and placing the lives of 31 million innocent people into the hands of a pathological manipulative reality TV star! The Cognitive Dissonance must be incredibly overwhelming and possibly pushing some of those people into an almost unbearable unstable state of mind to believe Donald Trump and his disreputable Neocon cronies.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 26, 2019, 04:56:50 AM
From the Democracy Now! video above
A Maduro Critic in Venezuela Slams U.S. Plan to Push Regime Change

Quote
We speak with Venezuelan sociologist Professor Edgardo Lander, a member of the Citizen’s Platform in Defense of the Constitution.

17:30 Venezuelan Border Aid attempt and violence:
"One of the first things I like to insist in fact that there certainly is not humanitarian aid and it's not oriented with any humanitarian aims. This is clearly a Coup carried out by the United States government with its allies, with the Lima group and the extreme right wing in Venezuela.

The opposition there, the right-wing opposition in Venezuela, the people who control Parliament and the opposition parties have been weakened over the last few years and they had not been able to agree on any single policy in relation to ways to confront the Maduro government.

But now it's obvious that this very extreme right wing has been in close coordination with the United States government for some time now and this script that has been followed since Guaido self proclaimed himself as president.

It's a script that's basically is a U.S. script and this script is in the works right now
. There's no concern about the situation of the Venezuelan population because as I said before if you take away billions of dollars from capacity of the government in Venezuela to respond to the needs for medicine and food on one hand, and you offer a few million dollars in food and medicine on the Colombian border there's no proportional (comparison) whatsoever and it's clear that the purpose is not to respond to the situation of the Venezuelan population but to create a conflict in the border.

As people have been called by Guaido and his people to concentrate ( VIOLENT THUGS ) at the border and this concert has been organized on the Colombian side of the government this could lead to a confrontation between the two sides."


"The Venezuelan government has announced that it might close the border, it hasn't been decided yet.

But the possibility of the closing of the border means that as there is now Venezuelan military presence on this side of the border, and there's obviously all sorts of paramilitary groups, CIA representatives, members of the Armed Forces of Colombia on the other side.

Anything could spark some violence that could lead to the beginning of a confrontation"/i]
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 26, 2019, 05:04:51 AM
From the Democracy Now! video above
A Maduro Critic in Venezuela Slams U.S. Plan to Push Regime Change

Quote
We speak with Venezuelan sociologist Professor Edgardo Lander, a member of the Citizen’s Platform in Defense of the Constitution.

17:30 Venezuelan Border Aid attempt and violence:
"One of the first things I like to insist in fact that there certainly is not humanitarian aid and it's not oriented with any humanitarian aims. This is clearly a Coup carried out by the United States government with its allies, with the Lima group and the extreme right wing in Venezuela.

The opposition there, the right-wing opposition in Venezuela, the people who control Parliament and the opposition parties have been weakened over the last few years and they had not been able to agree on any single policy in relation to ways to confront the Maduro government.

But now it's obvious that this very extreme right wing has been in close coordination with the United States government for some time now and this script that has been followed since Guaido self proclaimed himself as president.

It's a script that's basically is a U.S. script and this script is in the works right now
. There's no concern about the situation of the Venezuelan population because as I said before if you take away billions of dollars from capacity of the government in Venezuela to respond to the needs for medicine and food on one hand, and you offer a few million dollars in food and medicine on the Colombian border there's no proportional (comparison) whatsoever and it's clear that the purpose is not to respond to the situation of the Venezuelan population but to create a conflict in the border.

As people have been called by Guaido and his people to concentrate ( VIOLENT THUGS ) at the border and this concert has been organized on the Colombian side of the government this could lead to a confrontation between the two sides."


"The Venezuelan government has announced that it might close the border, it hasn't been decided yet.

But the possibility of the closing of the border means that as there is now Venezuelan military presence on this side of the border, and there's obviously all sorts of paramilitary groups, CIA representatives, members of the Armed Forces of Colombia on the other side.

Anything could spark some violence that could lead to the beginning of a confrontation"/i]

Quote
20:35 "..... So we had to confront this supposedly humanitarian aid which is not humanitarian aid. It's just direct intervention in order to have regime change which has been the purpose of the Trump government from the very beginning.

And we know what regime change has meant in other places. We know the experience of regime change in Libya, we know the experience of regime change in Iraq, we know what the people in Syria are facing today as a consequence of this IMPERIAL attempts to have regime change.

So there is no possibility that this so-called humanitarian aid will make any positive contribution to the Venezuelan situation it's just going to make it worse."

imho Bernie Sanders needs to get on the telephone and speak with this guy and many others. In the meantime he should shut his mouth until he has been advised properly as to the real situation in Venezuela.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 26, 2019, 05:06:22 AM
Bernie Sanders Repeats CIA Talking Points On Venezuela

The Jimmy Dore Show
Published on 25 Feb 2019

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMxuU6_3seg
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 26, 2019, 05:07:51 AM
The American Destruction of Venezuela - The Real Story

Thom Hartmann Program
Published on 21 Feb 2019

Did America create hyperinflation in Venezuela to start a coup and undermine the Maduro Government? What has America had to do with hyperinflation in Venezuela? Was the destruction of Venezuela an American plan? Economist Dr. Richard Wolff joined Thom to explain.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCddGxVEuEY
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 26, 2019, 05:09:28 AM
An Ocean of Lies on Venezuela: Abby Martin & UN Rapporteur Expose Coup

Empire Files
Published on 22 Feb 2019

On the eve of another US war for oil, Abby Martin debunks the most repeated myths about Venezuela and uncovers how US sanctions are crimes against humanity with UN Investigator and Human Rights Rapporteur Alfred De Zayas.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ii5MlQgGXyk
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 26, 2019, 06:25:46 AM
From the Democracy Now! video above
A Maduro Critic in Venezuela Slams U.S. Plan to Push Regime Change

Quote
We speak with Venezuelan sociologist Professor Edgardo Lander, a member of the Citizen’s Platform in Defense of the Constitution.

21:40 ".... so the need for some sort of negotiation or putting a stop to this escalation and to put the blame on one hand on Maduro's responsibility for having throughout this six years of government created such an incredible collapse of the Venezuelan economy.

Today the economy is half of what it used to be when Maduro came to power and this is basically the government's responsibility. US sanctions against Venezuela Trump's sanctions against Venezuela started a year and a half ago around mid 2017 but the crisis came from way before.

[Note Obama's sanctions began in ~2014 btw. That 'self-righteous aggression' by Obama did not help Venezuela either ]

US sanctions had deepened the crisis but they are not the main cause of the crisis. The main cause of the crisis is ineptitude and massive corruption by the Maduro Government.

So we in Venezuela are faced with these two evils - with these two confronting enemies - that have the Venezuelan people in between paying for their own ineptitude, for their own violence, for their own political purpose - which are not for the purposes of the Venezuelan population.

We need to have some sort of pressure on the US government to stop this level of intervention, the spread of military intervention and we have to call on the Maduro government to be willing to open up a negotiation.

Because there are a lot of reasons why people in Venezuela don't really trust Maduro when he talks about his willingness to negotiate, because he always says the same thing. But when negotiations are always carried out there are negotiations in which Maduro has not been willing to do anything. He hasn't been willing to cede on any one basic issue."
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 26, 2019, 07:54:19 AM
This next graphic tells the story clear enough I think about August 2017
(https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2571.0;attach=116036;image)

OK. Let's think about what happened in August 2017.

And none of this has anything to do with Venezuela's oil production.

I would hate to see you having to change your mind or at worst apologize to the people of Venezuela for being another person who is part of the systemic problems of this the world. You say in your reply to Neven that you want something done "about our addiction to fossil fuels" and yet your opinions, beliefs and words about Trump, Putin and Maduro are repeatedly undermining such 'noble' goals and outright denying your stated 'values' and 'political beliefs.'

But you are not alone there. OK? That's my opinion and pov. So while your busy making excuses for Donald Trump, and your own Government, and the Democrat Party too I suspect, please whatever you do do not read any of these website reports/articles nor watch the video.

Quote
    The solution to the Venezuelan “crisis” lies in good faith negotiations between the Government and the opposition, an end to the economic war, and the lifting of sanctions.

    The “crisis” in the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela is an economic crisis, which cannot be compared with the humanitarian crises in Gaza, Yemen, Libya, the Syrian Arab Republic, Iraq, Haiti, Mali, the Central African Republic, South Sudan, Somalia, or Myanmar, among others.


https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Alfred_de_Zayas

Quote
Venezuela: UN independent expert welcomes government action after his visit
GENEVA (28 December 2017)
https://www.ohchr.org/en/NewsEvents/Pages/DisplayNews.aspx?NewsID=22569&LangID=E
Quote
UN Independent Expert: Venezuela Sanctions Must be Terminated and Economic War Must End
UN independent expert Alfred de Zayas discusses his recent trip to Venezuela and his impressions of the current situation
Alfred de Zayas   Latin America and the Caribbean   February 28, 2018
https://canadiandimension.com/articles/view/un-independent-expert-sanctions-must-be-terminated-and-economic-war-must-en

Quote
Alfred De Zayas: Venezuela Must Take the US to the International Court of Justice
By Mariela Acuña Orta / Marian Martínez Perdomo ‐ Últimas Noticias
Mar 29th 2018
The sanctions against Venezuela have exacerbated the economic crisis caused by the collapse of oil prices leading to serious shortages of medicines and food.
https://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/13745

Funny, in another post here I too said that Venezuela should have got their shit together better and taken the USA to to the International court last year and in the years before. Obviously I am as smart, as knowledgeable, and as ethically and legally sound as an expert United Nations Human Rights Rapporteur!  Who knew? :)


Quote
September 11, 2018 alfreddezayas
Successful UN mission to Venezuela
https://dezayasalfred.wordpress.com/2018/09/11/successful-un-mission-to-venezuela/

UN Investigator and Human Rights Rapporteur Alfred De Zayas.
Published on 22 Feb 2019

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ii5MlQgGXyk
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on February 26, 2019, 08:15:11 AM
Lurk, you talk a lot, but say very little.

What's your opinion about what should happen in Venezuela right now.
Lander (in your video above) calls for a national referendum.

I think that would be a good first step. Do you agree too ?

And if so, do you think that Maduro will agree as well ?

Or will Maduro do nothing (except for continuing to print more money) ?
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: interstitial on February 26, 2019, 08:22:15 AM
From the Democracy Now! video above
A Maduro Critic in Venezuela Slams U.S. Plan to Push Regime Change

 It's truly sad how dumbed down and self-deluded the bulk of the American people (and many in Europe) have become.

When the name calling begins the discourse is over.

But being a "dumb" American I will try anyway. https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/Smileys/default/grin.gifI remember back to when this started with Venezuelans rioting over corruption in their government. At the time gas prices were on the rise and the government wanted to increase the subsidized gasoline rate. Locals were upset because they would buy gas there and sell it outside the country for a profit. Chavez was dying and didn't want to be the bad guy so he let the problem get worse. Muduro announced an increase in Venezulan gas prices and rioting broke out. Muduro tried to ride it out but the anger was building. Muduro started blaming the U.S. for why they had financial problems.That is when the U.S. started expressing concern about the situation. There was an upcoming election and Muduro wasn't going to win so he suspended the elections and made some changes to ensure his power. After he eliminated his competition (I think he jailed them for corruption or treason but I forget) he backed off on the gas price increase and had elections.   Eventually the U.S. decided to implement sanctions and not subtly hint that a regime change wouldn't be considered amiss. The country was already in financial distress when the sanctions began that is what kicked off the rioting but those sanctions definitely had bite. While the sanctions started out small and targeted they have increased until now they are widespread. The problem with sanctions though is the rich and powerful don't suffer as much, if at all, as the common person.

If the U.S. wanted their oil we would have used a different approach. This has taken oil off the market not put it on. IDK maybe the goal was to take oil off the market. Ostensibly the stated goal was to push for regime change that is more democratic/friendly to the U.S.

I would also like to comment on the assumption that the american people have much control over policy. We have a duopoly which isn't really a choice because both parties are corrupted through and through. Politicians work for the elite and spend their campaign money to find out what the voters want to hear and tell them what poles indicate they want to hear. As soon as the election is over they go back to work for the elite to get more money to lie to the common person.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on February 26, 2019, 08:34:03 AM
I would hate to see you having to change your mind or at worst apologize to the people of Venezuela for being another person who is part of the systemic problems of this the world. You say in your reply to Neven that you want something done "about our addiction to fossil fuels" and yet your opinions, beliefs and words about Trump, Putin and Maduro are repeatedly undermining such 'noble' goals and outright denying your stated 'values' and 'political beliefs.'

Here is my plan for Trump, Putin and Maduro :

I would like all three of these autocrats in the US, Russia and Venezuela and their administrations OUT, and replaced by democratically elected progressive governments who will actually DO recognize the threat of climate change and ACT to phase out fossil fuels over the next few decades.

Yes, I know this is a ludicrous plan, unlikely to happen, but it's mine and you can't have it  ;)

What's YOUR plan ?
 
Incidentally, Maduro is (inadvertently) on track of phasing out fossil fuels, since he is running the entire Venezuelan oil industry into the ground :

(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/9F32/production/_105345704_oil-nc.png)
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 26, 2019, 08:59:16 AM
From the Democracy Now! video above
A Maduro Critic in Venezuela Slams U.S. Plan to Push Regime Change

 It's truly sad how dumbed down and self-deluded the bulk of the American people (and many in Europe) have become.

When the name calling begins the discourse is over.

But being a "dumb" American I will try anyway. https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/Smileys/default/grin.gif I remember back to when this started with Venezuelans rioting over corruption in their government. At the time gas prices were on the rise and the government wanted to increase the subsidized gasoline rate. Locals were upset because they would buy gas there and sell it outside the country for a profit. Chavez was dying and didn't want to be the bad guy so he let the problem get worse. Muduro announced an increase in Venezulan gas prices and rioting broke out. Muduro tried to ride it out but the anger was building. Muduro started blaming the U.S. for why they had financial problems.That is when the U.S. started expressing concern about the situation. There was an upcoming election and Muduro wasn't going to win so he suspended the elections and made some changes to ensure his power. After he eliminated his competition (I think he jailed them for corruption or treason but I forget) he backed off on the gas price increase and had elections.   Eventually the U.S. decided to implement sanctions and not subtly hint that a regime change wouldn't be considered amiss. The country was already in financial distress when the sanctions began that is what kicked off the rioting but those sanctions definitely had bite. While the sanctions started out small and targeted they have increased until now they are widespread. The problem with sanctions though is the rich and powerful don't suffer as much, if at all, as the common person.

If the U.S. wanted their oil we would have used a different approach. This has taken oil off the market not put it on. IDK maybe the goal was to take oil off the market. Ostensibly the stated goal was to push for regime change that is more democratic/friendly to the U.S.

I would also like to comment on the assumption that the american people have much control over policy. We have a duopoly which isn't really a choice because both parties are corrupted through and through. Politicians work for the elite and spend their campaign money to find out what the voters want to hear and tell them what poles indicate they want to hear. As soon as the election is over they go back to work for the elite to get more money to lie to the common person.

So if I have this correct, you have not had a look at any of the information, data, 'opinions' or the history that's been posted here in the previous 98 Posts before yours? Is that correct?

Sounds to me like you're 'winging' it. Sounds like you are not interested in learning anything new or more accurate than what you presently believe is 'true' or can still 'remember.'   

And for the record saying: "how dumbed down" is not the same as saying something like "interstitial is a dumb American" or "all Americans are dumb."

 That is saying two completely different things which have two completely different meanings.

However if what you intimate above is true " the American people do not have much control over policy" (and it does seem to be the case) then this does not strike me as the American people being intelligent or very smart. Would you at least agree with that statement, if nothing else in the prior 98 posts? 
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 26, 2019, 10:42:34 AM
Excellent idea. Now all we need to do is replicate that in the USA asap. Run the US economy into the ground too. Too easy. :) 
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 26, 2019, 10:45:24 AM


So if I have this correct, you have not had much of a look over the information, data, 'opinions' or the history that's been posted here in the previous posts. fair enough there is a lot. 

And for the record saying: "how dumbed down" is not the same as saying something like "all Americans are dumb"

For that is saying two completely different things which have completely different meanings.

However if what you intimate above is true " the American people do not have much control over policy" (and it does seem to be the case) then this does not strike me as "the American people" being intelligent or very smart. Of course they are not alone in that.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 26, 2019, 10:51:13 AM
Here's a list of what I think are the most informative and most accurate videos about Venezuela at present. Copy and paste the [ urls ] into your browser

The Coup in Venezuela, Explained
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STcepwXxwWA]

An Ocean of Lies on Venezuela: Abby Martin & UN Rapporteur Expose Coup
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ii5MlQgGXyk]

This Is Not Humanitarian Aid:
A Maduro Critic in Venezuela Slams U.S. Plan to Push Regime Change
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PH3AfGO-RvU]

Caracas Reporter Says: ‘US Plot in Venezuela failing’
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t45QYujLAWo]

Investigating Venezuela's 'humanitarian crisis':
Max Blumenthal tours a supermarket in Caracas
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbXqGiNlWWw]

The real Venezuela: From Caracas, Prof. Aline Piva explains US coup attempt
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRwrHO4Zi1g]

Venezuela, Maduro and Latin America (The History Boys)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r05IcTGYL_I]

George Galloway on Venezuela (An appeal to Empathy and Justice)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jsci1IJpG5M]

Noam Chomsky - History of US Rule in Latin America
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKwJI9axblQ]

I suspect the next thread is likely to be titled "The Venezuelan War"
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 26, 2019, 11:27:19 AM
This thread is a shame that I wish I hadn't had the displeasure to find.
Don't confuse Venezuela with its current Tirano.
People are dying under Maduro's oppression. Migrating to countries like Spain as refugees because they simply don't have Bread to Eat.
I don't understand why this manipulated content is allowed in this forum.
But now that it is allowed: todo el cariño y el ánimo al pueblo venezolano desde Europa! Abajo la tiranía!


The Empire vs Venezuela? Seriously?

Venezuela vs. Reason
Venezuela vs. its own people
Socialism still doesn't work

These 3 are the real subjects, not the above

I am truly amazed by the spread of socilaism in the West especially amongst the youth. It can only happen to those who did not live in a totalitarian-socialist/communist regime. I did. I know how terrible it is and why it does not work. We had a joke: "Introduce socialism in the Sahara and soon sand will be in short supply". These regimes ALWAYS destroy human dignity, lead to opression, suffering, and lowered living standards. I can not comprehend how anyone can take the side of Maduro (Chavez).

The West has lived too well for too long. You do not appreciate what you have, that is why you will lose it and be sorry afterwards but it will be too late by then. Witness the stupidity of Trump and Brexit - the writing is on the wall.



UN Independent Expert: Venezuela Sanctions Must be Terminated and Economic War Must End
UN independent expert Alfred de Zayas discusses his recent trip to Venezuela and his impressions of the current situation

Alfred de Zayas   Latin America and the Caribbean   February 28, 2018

https://canadiandimension.com/articles/view/un-independent-expert-sanctions-must-be-terminated-and-economic-war-must-en

ZiF: What distinguishes the model in Venezuela?

AZ: It is a social model that wants to achieve a fairer distribution of the country’s wealth. Meanwhile, 2 million homes have been handed over to the poorer part of the population. Thus at least 8 million persons have benefitted from affordable apartments. There is also the so-called system of CLAP (Comité Local de Abastecimiento y Producción – Local Committee for supply and production), in which the government distributes food parcels to the poor. Those who cannot pay for the packages, receive them for free, of course.

ZiF: What does such a parcel contain?

AZ: I did open one when I was visiting one of the modern and very clean “Urbanizaciones” (government housing for the poor). There are 16 kg of food in it: sugar, rice, cooking oil, flour, cornmeal, milk powder, etc. A family gets such a parcel twice a month. Therefore, there is no “famine” in Venezuela, despite media reports and generalizations. There is, however, a shortage in several sectors, and some products are hard to get, but the population does not suffer from hunger as for example in many countries of Africa and Asia – or even in the favelas of São Paolo and other urban areas in Brazil and other Latin American countries.

There are mainly problems in the timely distribution of imported products – but this is predominantly the responsibility of the private sector, which often enough deliberately boycotts the distribution, sometimes stocks products in large warehouses and then takes them to the black market instead of delivering them to supermarkets — just to make a higher profit.

ZiF: What is special about the “Bolivarian Revolution”?

AZ: It is an alternative model to capitalism, to unregulated free market economics. It is not “Marxism”, and certainly not “Marxism-Leninism”. It is an attempt to give the capitalist system a humane face. Since 1999, when Hugo Chávez came to power, a certain reorientation of the country took place, which could set a precedent for Latin America and many developing economies.

There are major achievements, which the mainstream media systematically ignores – e.g. illiteracy was eliminated within shortest time (as was the case in Castro’s Cuba). School education is free, from kindergarten to university. There is a system of free medical care, a system of support for young mothers, a major effort at building affordable housing and expanding the public transport system.

ZiF: Today, if you read the New York Times or “inform” yourself about Venezuela on CNN or UN Watch etc., you repeatedly come across the concept of a “humanitarian crisis”.

AZ: I warn against this technical term, because a “humanitarian crisis” can be easily exploited to justify a so-called “humanitarian intervention” or to aim at a “regime change”, under the pretext that the government lets the population starve.

Some states pretend that the Venezuelan government can no longer guarantee the rights of the people. Hence, a humanitarian crisis emerged and now they want to intervene militarily to “save” the Venezuelan people from a failed socialist experiment.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 26, 2019, 12:36:35 PM
 US issues fresh Venezuela-related sanctions after VP Pence affirms Washington’s support for Guaido
Published time: 25 Feb, 2019

Former Venezuelan vice president Ramon Carrizales and former minister of defense Jorge Garcia Carneiro have both been added to the list, along with Socialist Party politicians Rafael Lacava and Omar Prieto.

Hours earlier, Venezuelan Foreign Minister Jorge Arreaza blasted US actions on Monday and blamed his country’s economic problems on the US financial blockade and economic warfare

Pence also announced other restrictions: “As of today the US will impose additional new sanctions on regimes officials, including three border state governors linked to the weekend violence,” he said.

    Pence at Lima Group meeting on Venezuela: Threats and more targeted sanctions agains Maduro government allies and a lot of blah blah blah. The US and the Venezuelan opposition have no plan to achieve their goal, which is why all their 'false promises' could result in violence.
    — Eva Golinger (@evagolinger) February 25, 2019

Top Venezuelan figures already under US restrictions include Vice President Delcy Rodriguez, Defense Minister Vladimir Padrino Lopez, and Maduro's wife Cilia Adela Flores de Maduro.

But Washington’s sanctions are not just about individuals. The US has been steadily tightening economic sanctions on Venezuela in recent months and in January the Trump administration imposed sanctions on state oil giant PDVSA, freezing $7 billion of the company’s assets. All this added a negative effect to the nation’s wealth in general.

Despite this, independent journalists who have traveled to Venezuela have reported less chaos than has been depicted by Western media.

https://www.rt.com/news/452384-washington-fresh-venezuela-sanctions/

https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/sanctions/OFAC-Enforcement/Pages/20190225.aspx
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 26, 2019, 12:54:36 PM
Here's a list of what I think are the most informative and most accurate videos about Venezuela at present. Copy and paste the [ urls ] into your browser

The Coup in Venezuela, Explained
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STcepwXxwWA]

An Ocean of Lies on Venezuela: Abby Martin & UN Rapporteur Expose Coup
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ii5MlQgGXyk]

This Is Not Humanitarian Aid:
A Maduro Critic in Venezuela Slams U.S. Plan to Push Regime Change
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PH3AfGO-RvU]

The Coup Has Failed & Now the U.S. Is Looking to Wage War:
Venezuelan Foreign Minister Speaks Out
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dim9uOsDuI]

Caracas Reporter Says: ‘US Plot in Venezuela failing’
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t45QYujLAWo]

Investigating Venezuela's 'humanitarian crisis':
Max Blumenthal tours a supermarket in Caracas
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbXqGiNlWWw]

The real Venezuela: From Caracas, Prof. Aline Piva explains US coup attempt
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRwrHO4Zi1g]

Venezuela, Maduro and Latin America (The History Boys)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r05IcTGYL_I]

George Galloway on Venezuela (An appeal to Empathy and Justice)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jsci1IJpG5M]

Noam Chomsky - History of US Rule in Latin America
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKwJI9axblQ]


I suspect the next thread is likely to be titled "The Venezuelan War"
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 26, 2019, 02:47:39 PM
A little snippet for our Russian 'partners'

US amasses special ops in Puerto Rico, army in Colombia to oust Maduro – Russian Security Council - Published time: 26 Feb, 2019

Nikolay Patrushev: “We are ready for dialogue with the USA”  02/26/2019
The focus of the Security Council of the Russian Federation is foreign policy crises that may affect Russia. AiF discussed with Security Council Secretary Nikolai Patrushev where threats could come from.

Q: - Probably, the question that worries many today is the future of Venezuela. What is behind the attempts to render humanitarian aid to this country - concern for the Venezuelan people or the beginning of military intervention?

A: - The difficult humanitarian situation to which Washington refers is precisely triggered by US sanctions and an embargo. And in these conditions, humanitarian aid is being imposed. It is assumed that it will be rejected.

By showing sarcasm and arrogance towards the Venezuelan people, the United States is preparing a military invasion of an independent state. The transfer of American special operations forces to Puerto Rico, the landing of US forces in Colombia and other facts clearly indicate that the Pentagon is reinforcing the grouping of troops in the region in order to engage the legally elected incumbent President Maduro. And the Venezuelan people understand this well. Hence, such a reaction, the refusal to accept the goods from the aggressor country and the support of its president.

You can also add that the Americans offered to hold us separate consultations on Venezuelan issues. We agreed. However, after that they, under far-fetched pretexts, move away from holding them, each time postponing the agreed dates.


https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aif.ru%2Fpolitics%2Fworld%2Fnikolay_patrushev_k_dialogu_s_ssha_my_gotovy

Original http://www.aif.ru/politics/world/nikolay_patrushev_k_dialogu_s_ssha_my_gotovy

via RT https://www.rt.com/news/452431-venezuela-us-oust-maduro/
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Pmt111500 on February 26, 2019, 03:01:27 PM
RE: Oil production falling.

How stupid would a country have to be to produce and sell oil if there are no reliable customers?
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 27, 2019, 05:46:35 AM
Venezuela set for more false flags… US puppet Guaido better watch his back.
Finian Cunningham
Published time: 26 Feb, 2019

What could such a shocking event entail? Somebody is telling the Lima Group that Guaido and his family are in grave danger of being assassinated. Guaido’s Popular Will party is known to engage in violent subversion and allegedly has links to the American CIA, as reported by Abby Martin and others.

As easily as they are lionized, US puppets can be just as easily disposed of. Guaido playing the dirty game of regime change with the most criminal organization in the world – the US government – is a very dangerous game. He’d better watch his back.


https://www.rt.com/op-ed/452490-venezuela-guaido-us-false-flag/
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 27, 2019, 06:07:11 AM
RE: Oil production falling.

How stupid would a country have to be to produce and sell oil if there are no reliable customers?

That's a sensible question. :)

The following may all be lies because it's from a Russian funded news service - and everyone  needs to know all Russians are habitual liars who cannot be trusted on anything. It's a DNA hereditary thing some guy in Washington said. (Clapper or the other one?)

Maybe check in with CNN, Bellingcat and the White House before presuming the data is true. (grin)

 Tankers loaded with 8.36 million barrels of crude are reportedly floating off the Venezuelan coast as the sanction-hit country struggles to find buyers for its oil.

The crude is worth upwards of half-a-billion dollars, according to shipping reports and ship-tracking data compiled by Bloomberg. An armada of 16 ships holds cargoes belonging to state oil company Petroleos de Venezuela SA (PDVSA), Chevron, Valero Energy and Rosneft Oil.

Sources told Bloomberg that oil ventures owned by PDVSA with Rosneft, Chevron, Total SA and Equinor ASA, whose upgraders convert tar-like Venezuelan crude into oil that refineries can process, reduced rates this week because they ran out of space to store crude. PDVSA had to put some of that oil onto tankers to clear space and continue to operate at lower rates.

Shipments to the United States, once Venezuela’s largest customer, have dried up, so that the South American nation had to turn its focus to other consumers, including China and India. Imports of Venezuela’s oil by India surged 66 percent in the first half of February to 620,000 barrels a day.

A person with knowledge of the situation said the PDVSA-Rosneft joint-venture, Petromonagas upgrader, isn’t processing oil after running out of space to store their production.

PDVSA-Chevron’s Petropiar venture has reduced output for the same reason, according to sources. They also said that Petrocedeno, a PDVSA-Total-Equinor venture, is running out of oil to process as a ban on sales of heavy naphtha to PDVSA has made it difficult to ship the heavy oil through pipelines from inland fields to the upgrader.

https://www.rt.com/business/452469-venezuela-oil-store-sanctions/
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 27, 2019, 06:54:39 AM
Text and videos from the Real News Network Baltimore ( not Russian Bots - grin )

The “Permanent War State” Aims to Plunder Venezuela – Wilkerson and Jay
February 26, 2019   

Trump promises “democracy and freedom” to Venezuela, delivered by Elliott Abrams who brought you illegal wars, coups, and support for dictatorships; and Mike Pompeo and VP Pence, both with deep ties to the Koch brothers who need Venezuelan heavy crude to feed their Texas refinery – Col. Larry Wilkerson joins TRNN’s Paul Jay
https://therealnews.com/stories/the-permanent-war-state-aims-to-plunder-venezuela-wilkerson-and-jay

Is Participatory Democracy the Solution to Venezuela’s Crisis?
February 25, 2019   

Atenea Jimenez, speaker of a Network of Communes in Venezuela, says that grassroots, collective decision-making is the key to solving Venezuela’s crisis
https://therealnews.com/stories/is-participatory-democracy-the-solution-to-venezuelas-crisis


Massive Protest 'demonstration-of-solidarity' in Support of the Bolivarian Revolution Largely Ignored - Maduro speaks in Public to crowd of ~100,000 (? ? I have no idea how accurate that is)
Published on 25 Feb 2019

While the world’s attention was focused on the Venezuelan opposition, as it tried to transport US aid into Venezuela against the government’s will, a major protest took place in Caracas that was opposed to US intervention in Venezuela.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XO5uWlIZho

It would be better to find an original video in full of this demonstration and speeches - I will try.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 27, 2019, 07:08:16 AM
NEWS FROM VENEZUELA TODAY FEBRUARY 23, 2019 ✅ LAST News today

Chavez leader Diosdado Cabello said Friday that former military counter intelligence leader Hugo Carvajal, who yesterday recognized Deputy Juan Guaidó as interim president of Venezuela, "negotiated" with the United States, a country that had requested it (accused him) for drug trafficking.

"We are not surprised, Carvajal has been gone for a long time, who is capable of negotiating with imperialism," Cabello told reporters from the Táchira state, where a concert against the entry of humanitarian aid is held. Colombian city from Cúcuta to Venezuela.

"I do not know how they do it because he is accused in the United States of drug trafficking (...), I assure you that now the crimes he has in the United States will be forgiven and they will open the doors to him, that is the immorality of US imperialism," he said Barbello the president of the pro-government National Constituent Assembly of Venezuela (ANC).

Alguien habla español aqui?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1pQFUd4s-I
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 27, 2019, 07:11:57 AM
Venezuelan President Nicolas #Maduro announced he has decided to break all ties with the "fascist government of #Colombia" and gave Colombian ambassadors 24 hours to leave #Venezuela, while speaking at a rally in Caracas on Saturday (23 Feb 2019)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Al_ishWLsH4


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CA48cNKxNBs


List of what I think are the most informative and most accurate videos about Venezuela
https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,2571.msg190178.html#msg190178
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 27, 2019, 07:16:37 AM
Text and videos from the Real News Network Baltimore ( not Russian Bots - grin )

The “Permanent War State” Aims to Plunder Venezuela – Wilkerson and Jay
February 26, 2019   

Trump promises “democracy and freedom” to Venezuela, delivered by Elliott Abrams who brought you illegal wars, coups, and support for dictatorships; and Mike Pompeo and VP Pence, both with deep ties to the Koch brothers who need Venezuelan heavy crude to feed their Texas refinery – Col. Larry Wilkerson joins TRNN’s Paul Jay
https://therealnews.com/stories/the-permanent-war-state-aims-to-plunder-venezuela-wilkerson-and-jay

Is Participatory Democracy the Solution to Venezuela’s Crisis?
February 25, 2019   

Atenea Jimenez, speaker of a Network of Communes in Venezuela, says that grassroots, collective decision-making is the key to solving Venezuela’s crisis
https://therealnews.com/stories/is-participatory-democracy-the-solution-to-venezuelas-crisis


Massive Protest 'demonstration-of-solidarity' in Support of the Bolivarian Revolution Largely Ignored - Maduro speaks in Public to crowd of ~100,000 (? ? I have no idea how accurate that is)
Published on 25 Feb 2019

While the world’s attention was focused on the Venezuelan opposition, as it tried to transport US aid into Venezuela against the government’s will, a major protest took place in Caracas that was opposed to US intervention in Venezuela.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XO5uWlIZho

It would be better to find an original video in full of this demonstration and speeches - I will try.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on February 27, 2019, 09:26:59 AM
Venezuela set for more false flags… US puppet Guaido better watch his back.

Wow. Just that. Wow.

The same scare tactics Russian propaganda used in Ukraine, and in Syria, they now also use in Venezuela.

Why do you amplify such sickening threats, Lurk, by posting this shit here on the ASIF ?
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on February 27, 2019, 09:55:58 AM
RE: Oil production falling.

How stupid would a country have to be to produce and sell oil if there are no reliable customers?

Lurk produces so much FUD on this thread that it's hard to get some basic data and reason across.

Let me try again :

Venezuela provides oil to the world market.
That market is pretty reliable, currently consuming about 93 million barrels per day.

Venezuela currently produces a bit more than 1 million barrels per day. You think they can't find any customers for that ?

The problem (of the decline) is in production. Venezuela under Maduro simply did not invest in maintenance of their oil production and refinement industry. Which caused it to decline.
EIA states this :

https://www.eia.gov/beta/international/analysis.php?iso=VEN

Quote
Reduced capital expenditures by state–owned oil and natural gas company Petròleos de Venezuela, S.A. (PdVSA) are resulting in foreign partners continuing to cut activities in the oil sector, making crude oil production losses increasingly widespread. With Venezuela’s heavy dependency on the oil industry, the country’s economy will likely continue to shrink, and that the runaway inflation will remain the mainstay at least in the short term.

Venezuela's main customers are China, India and the US.

Of these, the US has been very reliable, even AFTER the recent (Jan 2019) sanctions against Venezuelan oil industry. For example, in the week ending 2/15 (AFTER the sanctions), US imported 558 k barrels/day (3.9 million barrels for the week) of Venezuelan oil, which is pretty typical over the past couple of years :

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=W_EPC0_IM0_NUS-NVE_MBBLD&f=W

Finally, in terms of payments, China and Russia seems to have more of a stranglehold on Venezuela than the US does, and the US seems to be the one still paying in cash :

EIA:

Quote
Venezuela’s revenue from oil exports is severely constricted because only about half of the exports generate cash revenues. U.S. refiners are among the few customers that still remit cash payments. The remaining crude oil exports are sold domestically at a loss or sent as loan repayments to China and Russia (the repayments to Russia are sent to Nayara Energy’s (formerly Essar) Vadinar refinery in India to service debt that Venezuela owes to Russian oil company Rosneft, the co–owner of the Vadinar refinery).

Which explains why Russia has such a strong interest in keeping Maduro in power.
Even to the point where they send in Russian contract soldiers (from Prigozhin's Wagner group) into Venezuela (the actual military intervention that nobody talks about) to protect Maduro :

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/25/venezuela-maduro-russia-private-security-contractors
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Neven on February 27, 2019, 10:09:09 AM
So, Rob, are you with Trump or with Putin on this one?  ;D

Trump. Putin. Maduro.

Three autocrats in charge of :

- The biggest oil producing country in the world, and
- The biggest oil exporting country in the world, and
- The biggest oil reserves in the world.

I don't like either of these guys.
Not just because they are autocrats, but also because they will die before they would do anything about our addiction to fossil fuels.

Nice dodge, Rob. You're with Trump on this one. And with Bolton and Abrams and all the other neocon SOBs that should've been put on some Nuremberg-type trials a long time ago. But Trump is Putin's puppet, so you're basically a Kremlinbot.

Good luck with the cognitive dissonance.

Quote
Here is my plan for Trump, Putin and Maduro :

I would like all three of these autocrats in the US, Russia and Venezuela and their administrations OUT, and replaced by democratically elected progressive governments who will actually DO recognize the threat of climate change and ACT to phase out fossil fuels over the next few decades.

And you want to do all of that in undemocratic ways to further promote neoliberal globalism. Ever heard of unintended consequences?

Venezuela needs to be left alone by the US and Russia and everybody else, sanctions need to be lifted immediately, diplomacy restored, and the media needs to stop this excessively riling sensationalism, especially if it's promoting misinformation (which is copied verbatim and uncritically in Austrian newspapers, I saw on Monday).
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on February 27, 2019, 10:12:43 AM
So, Rob, are you with Trump or with Putin on this one?  ;D

Trump. Putin. Maduro.

Three autocrats in charge of :

- The biggest oil producing country in the world, and
- The biggest oil exporting country in the world, and
- The biggest oil reserves in the world.

I don't like either of these guys.
Not just because they are autocrats, but also because they will die before they would do anything about our addiction to fossil fuels.

Nice dodge, Rob. You're with Trump on this one. And with Bolton and Abrams and all the other neocon SOBs that should've been put on some Nuremberg-type trials a long time ago. But Trump is Putin's puppet, so you're basically a Kremlinbot.

I've been called an "eco-terrorist" and a "neocon", a "neo-liberal" and a host of other names.
But never, ever, a "Kremlinbot". That's a first, Neven, and I'm really not sure I follow your reasoning on how you got there, especially since I tend to expose what Russia is DOING rather than what they are SAYING.

Like sending Wagner Group into Venezuela.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 27, 2019, 10:14:02 AM
RE: Oil production falling.

How stupid would a country have to be to produce and sell oil if there are no reliable customers?

Lurk produces so much FUD on this thread that it's hard to get some basic data and reason across.

Oh Pulease get rational one day soon. What a dumb comment. Take responsibility for your own comments, data and refs and stop blaming other people for it being so "hard." You poor oppressed soul.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Neven on February 27, 2019, 10:20:52 AM
I've been called an "eco-terrorist" and a "neocon", a "neo-liberal" and a host of other names.
But never, ever, a "Kremlinbot". That's a first, Neven, and I'm really not sure I follow your reasoning on how you got there, especially since I tend to expose what Russia is DOING rather than what they are SAYING.

Because you're with the Putin puppet that is pushing for covert regime change to destroy yet another country. If you're with the Putin puppet on such an illegal and immoral undertaking, you're obviously a Kremlinbot.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on February 27, 2019, 10:26:14 AM
Quote
Here is my plan for Trump, Putin and Maduro :

I would like all three of these autocrats in the US, Russia and Venezuela and their administrations OUT, and replaced by democratically elected progressive governments who will actually DO recognize the threat of climate change and ACT to phase out fossil fuels over the next few decades.

And you want to do all of that in undemocratic ways to further promote neoliberal globalism. Ever heard of unintended consequences?

I'm not sure what's going on here.

Didn't I just write : "and replaced by democratically elected progressive governments " ?

If you can agree that that is what I just wrote, why do you say : "And you want to do all of that in undemocratic ways to further promote neoliberal globalism" ?

What's going on here ?
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 27, 2019, 10:41:54 AM
OK, so here is a normal everyday person / pro-Chavistas from Venezuela. She comes across (to me) as both educated and intelligent. Plus down to earth.

Via Real News already posted above with video
- Is Participatory Democracy the Solution to Venezuela's Crisis? -
https://therealnews.com/stories/is-participatory-democracy-the-solution-to-venezuelas-crisis

Listen to the question from @ 03:00

I am editing some of the text translation from the website/video because imho it is not correct in places - for original Spanish use the YouTube transcript.

Quote
Atenea Jimenez: Our position, now, before he even assumes the presidency. There are already happening very dangerous things for the spokesmen, men and women for popular power. In the neighborhoods we’ve already had confrontations between opposition members and CLAPand Communal Council representatives.

We’ve had to evacuate our fellows because their lives were in danger.

We are not talking about the future. Right now we already have conflicts in the communities, as you can imagine, the Commune is made of smaller communities, where there is opposition to us, there are all kinds of political stances.

At the moment of Guaido’s self proclamation, there was a moment of victory for the opposition, which generates more confrontation within the people’s ranks. We are worried about this, because no one is paying attention or doing anything about it, amid the current larger political crisis, between the government and the opposition.

Our people, the Communas’s spokespeople, have been confronted in the neighborhoods, and even in rural areas. They have been threatened. It needs to be recognized the fact that there are communal lands which are still in dispute, farmers’s lands that are in dispute. And the larger contradictions and crisis have intensified such disputes.

And no one is attending to that, because there is a terrible ungovernability because of issues with police and district attorneys’ offices and institutionality in general. So as of now our people are more vulnerable than ever.

The biggest fear of all is that a self-proclamation of a president nobody voted for is legitimized.

If these kinds of things are happening now it is a risky situation in which, as Communa spokespeople, we all fear that Guaido gets confirmed as president because there would be a lack of guarantees for us to do our political job.

But in the context of the political dispute, the government has not assumed the defense of representatives, like those of CLAP and Network of Communers, in the field, where an opposition activist (thug?) may unleash on them their hatred against Maduro.

Those are the risks that as defenders of the people we run into every day.

@6:03
Dimitri Lascaris: The narrative that we hear in the West, particularly in the United States, but also in other Western countries, like Canada, from political leaders on the right and also from the corporate media is that fundamentally, Venezuela’s problems stem from the fact that it is a socialist system, and it’s governed by a brutal dictator. Is that—is there any truth to that narrative, in your view? And if not, what do you think that Canadians and Americans and Europeans need to understand about what is really happening here?

Atenea Jimenez: The first thing is that in Venezuela "Socialism" does not exist. We have been constructing a State of SOCIAL Justice and Equality. We have been building it, despite an international blockade, despite (a War against Venezuela) by the great Imperialistic powers trying to enter Venezuela for 20 years now.

We have a democracy that mixes (protagonist) representative democracy with participative democracy.

But what "reigns" supreme" is a capitalist system - that remains dependent on minerals, oil, and lately gold extraction.

Really, no no no, we can not say that we are under a Dictatorship because there is a socialist system, because it is not True!

Popular / communal councils and communes they are an expression of direct power of direct democracy and popular power, an exercise of citizen power where people in a community express what their projects and their priorities are and will be.

Before Chavez that was just not possible. You elected a congressman or representative and he got to decide which projects were the priorities of that community. But now people can decide for themselves in popular assemblies. This obviously is a permanent construction / situation now.

So what has failed is the capitalist dependent system, which we all have the automatic responsibility to make or break. That is what we as popular power have been proposing for a while now; how to organize our people, our productive working people, our indigenous and farmers organized to rule themselves.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on February 27, 2019, 10:52:01 AM
RE: Oil production falling.

How stupid would a country have to be to produce and sell oil if there are no reliable customers?

Lurk produces so much FUD on this thread that it's hard to get some basic data and reason across.

Oh Pulease get rational one day soon. What a dumb comment. Take responsibility for your own comments, data and refs and stop blaming other people for it being so "hard." You poor oppressed soul.

Oh. Thanks Lurk. That's so nice of you. And yes, I do feel oppressed, with Neven moderating every post I write.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 27, 2019, 10:57:06 AM

Even to the point where they send in Russian contract soldiers (from Prigozhin's Wagner group) into Venezuela (the actual military intervention that nobody talks about) to protect Maduro :

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/25/venezuela-maduro-russia-private-security-contractors

But but but Putin Puppet Donald Trump said Maduro was protected by Cuban Special Forces? He didn't trust his own military was the claim there. Maybe it's both Russian and Cuban? Maybe the Iranian Republican Guard is there too but the US and The Guardian do not know that yet? (smile)

Did the Guardian report about the new arrivals of US troops & equipment and Special Forces and CIA Military Ops people in staging the "US defence forces" in Columbia and Costa Rica (or was that Puerto Rico) ?

What about the Israeli SAS Forces who are staging in Brazil - been there for over a week now, maybe two already? Did they mention them too?

Go hard with your "distraction" techniques. What a pity you didn't start your own Venezuela thread in January - given you seem to see yourself as an expert on it, on the truth and the facts. Good luck with that. And goods luck with catching up - in full - on all the content already posted here along with the large amount of material in the refs linked to

Do you have any questions perhaps? :)
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on February 27, 2019, 11:05:46 AM
https://therealnews.com/stories/is-participatory-democracy-the-solution-to-venezuelas-crisis

Quote
Atenea Jimenez, speaker of a Network of Communes in Venezuela, says that grassroots, collective decision-making is the key to solving Venezuela’s crisis

Lurk, do you agree ?
If so, which decisions do you think the Venezuelan people need to make ?
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on February 27, 2019, 11:17:08 AM

Even to the point where they send in Russian contract soldiers (from Prigozhin's Wagner group) into Venezuela (the actual military intervention that nobody talks about) to protect Maduro :

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/25/venezuela-maduro-russia-private-security-contractors

But but but Putin Puppet Donald Trump said Maduro was protected by Cuban Special Forces? He didn't trust his own military was the claim there. Maybe it's both Russian and Cuban? Maybe the Iranian Republican Guard is there too but the US and The Guardian do not know that yet? (smile)

Mmmm. Let's see. Cubans and Iranians too ?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-politics-russia-exclusive/exclusive-kremlin-linked-contractors-help-guard-venezuelas-maduro-sources-idUSKCN1PJ22M

Nope.

Just Prigozhin's Russian Wagner Group went to Venezuela to protect Maduro.

Quote
Russia, which has backed Maduro’s socialist government to the tune of billions of dollars, this week promised to stand by him ...

Yeah. Doesn't surprise me since Maduro owes the Russians big money :

EIA stated :

Quote
Venezuela’s revenue from oil exports is severely constricted because only about half of the exports generate cash revenues. U.S. refiners are among the few customers that still remit cash payments. The remaining crude oil exports are sold domestically at a loss or sent as loan repayments to China and Russia (the repayments to Russia are sent to Nayara Energy’s (formerly Essar) Vadinar refinery in India to service debt that Venezuela owes to Russian oil company Rosneft, the co–owner of the Vadinar refinery).
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on February 27, 2019, 11:40:37 AM
Did the Guardian report about the new arrivals of US troops & equipment and Special Forces and CIA Military Ops people in staging the "US defence forces" in Columbia and Costa Rica (or was that Puerto Rico) ?

So what was it. Colombia, Costa Rica or Puerto Rico ?

Quote
What about the Israeli SAS Forces who are staging in Brazil - been there for over a week now, maybe two already? Did they mention them too?

You mean these guys ? :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zywfpd7CaW8
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on February 27, 2019, 11:59:01 AM
I've been called an "eco-terrorist" and a "neocon", a "neo-liberal" and a host of other names.
But never, ever, a "Kremlinbot". That's a first, Neven, and I'm really not sure I follow your reasoning on how you got there, especially since I tend to expose what Russia is DOING rather than what they are SAYING.

Because you're with the Putin puppet that is pushing for covert regime change to destroy yet another country. If you're with the Putin puppet on such an illegal and immoral undertaking, you're obviously a Kremlinbot.

Geez, Neven. What did I ever do wrong to you ?

<You endlessly parrot establishment conditioning/propaganda and are blind to all the contradictions you put yourself in. Don't act as if you're in the minority; N.>
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on February 27, 2019, 01:12:20 PM
I've been called an "eco-terrorist" and a "neocon", a "neo-liberal" and a host of other names.
But never, ever, a "Kremlinbot". That's a first, Neven, and I'm really not sure I follow your reasoning on how you got there, especially since I tend to expose what Russia is DOING rather than what they are SAYING.

Because you're with the Putin puppet that is pushing for covert regime change to destroy yet another country. If you're with the Putin puppet on such an illegal and immoral undertaking, you're obviously a Kremlinbot.

Geez, Neven. What did I ever do wrong to you ?

<You endlessly parrot establishment conditioning/propaganda and are blind to all the contradictions you put yourself in. Don't act as if you're in the minority; N.>

Sorry, but I'm stating the facts, not propaganda.

If I'm in the minority or not is not really the issue.
The issue is if I'm right or not.

And the fact is that Venezuela got herself into a declining oil production, because Maduro failed to finance the Venezuelan oil industry.

(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/9F32/production/_105345704_oil-nc.png)

And the fact is that Maduro owns billions of dollars to Russia, which it pays off by providing oil to Nayara Energy’s (formerly Essar) Vadinar refinery in India to service debt that Venezuela owes to Russian oil company Rosneft, the co–owner of the Vadinar refinery).

https://www.eia.gov/beta/international/analysis.php?iso=VEN

And the fact is that Russia provided contract soldiers from the Wagner group (the military intervention that nobody talks about) to Venezuela, to protect Russian interests in Venezuela and the Maduro regime.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-politics-russia-exclusive/exclusive-kremlin-linked-contractors-help-guard-venezuelas-maduro-sources-idUSKCN1PJ22M

So, sorry. But you are wrong, and I am not.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on February 27, 2019, 01:18:02 PM
Oil workers flee Venezuela’s crisis for a better life

https://www.apnews.com/a133dc7090604feeb5e700e9db2345c9

(https://storage.googleapis.com/afs-prod/media/media:d378a0de2cc34b8a89dfffceb8bba326/800.jpeg)
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Neven on February 27, 2019, 02:01:29 PM
You are wrong about supporting covert regime change, and being on the side of Trump and his band of war criminals (which you will probably say aren't war criminals), not about some irrelevant graph.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Mozi on February 27, 2019, 03:24:38 PM
The graph is quite relevant. Venezuela has been falling apart on their own accord for years now. I do not support US-led intervention which makes the current situation difficult to discuss, as the US has obviously decided to stick their foot in (though to what extent remains unknown.) But if you support the Venezuelan people at root, you would also be wishing for Maduro and the PSUV to go. Much better would have been a regional intervention. But just because both sides are wrong doesn't mean I have to throw my lot in with those who for many years have claimed that the CIA gave Chavez cancer. The fundamental problem in Venezuela is the criminal corruption of the PSUV.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Neven on February 27, 2019, 03:48:56 PM
The graph is quite relevant.

It isn't relevant to my point that Rob always parrots establishment conditioning/propaganda and is blind to all the contradictions he puts himself in. As soon as the mainstream media says 'Look there, a dictator killing his own people', Rob's knee jerks and he immediately selects all necessary facts to make the case that the dictator must be deposed, either covertly or overtly, nio matter the consequences (Iraq, Libya, Syria, Afghanistan, and dozens of other examples from the previous century). And then, when this actually makes him align with Putin's bitch in the White House, he dodges and makes up all kinds of reasons to appear consistent to himself.

Quote
But if you support the Venezuelan people at root, you would also be wishing for Maduro and the PSUV to go.

You need to watch all those videos Lurk has posted, or spend some time at the Real News Network. But even then, the fact that this gets so much attention, while the same could be said about dozens of other countries/regions in the world (that don't have natural resources), is simply ridiculous.

It's very, very simple:

Quote
Venezuela needs to be left alone by the US and Russia and everybody else, sanctions need to be lifted immediately, diplomacy restored, and the media needs to stop this excessively riling sensationalism, especially if it's promoting misinformation (which is copied verbatim and uncritically in Austrian newspapers, I saw on Monday).

To think that installing some Harvard-educated neoliberal CIA spook who only has to proclaim himself president, is going to end corruption and leave fossil fuels in the ground, is childish.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 28, 2019, 12:42:35 AM
https://therealnews.com/stories/is-participatory-democracy-the-solution-to-venezuelas-crisis

Quote
Atenea Jimenez, speaker of a Network of Communes in Venezuela, says that grassroots, collective decision-making is the key to solving Venezuela’s crisis

Lurk, do you agree ?
If so, which decisions do you think the Venezuelan people need to make ?

Rob this is so easy to answer. I think the Venezuelan people need to make the decisions they are going to make in their own self-interest accordoing to their will as displayed to genuine democratic constitiuionla process that occur wihtout violnce or the threat of violnce by partisan extrmeists and terrorist like activities

Even more so to be able to that, to sort out their own "political problems" absent the external threats of military action and absent the oppressive illegal sanctions being imposted by a bunch of corrupt SELF-RIGHTEOUS KNOW IT ALL NARCISSISTIC PATHOLOGICAL Politicians backed in by even more powerful Oligarchs in the USA, Canada, and Europe.... and without paying any attention to those gullible people of this world who support such things and believe it is a) necessary and b) so really cool despite knowing a damned ed thing about Venezuela bar what they are told in the Press and by those corrupt inane Politicians and Officials. 

iow, to put it even more simply, I actually believe in possibilities of Democracy and the Rule of Law - it is you who does not. You still believe in US exceptionalism and your assumed US right to interfere in every other nation on this Earth because YOU always know best. I do not.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on February 28, 2019, 08:35:52 AM
You guys (Lurk and Neven) seem to think that I am somehow promoting intervention in Venezuela.
Nothing would be further from the truth.

Let me state it clearly : I am absolutely against military intervention in Venezuela.

And also, I'm very confident that there will be no US military intervention in Venezuela.
It would not make ANY sense AT ALL at this point.

So can you guys please stop accusing me ?

Meanwhile, Maduro's policies got Venezuela in deep, deep economical trouble.

The country is already in deep debt (with China and Russia), while the economy is shrinking and it is only getting worse. Here one report I read today :

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-gold-exclusive/exclusive-venezuela-removed-8-tons-of-central-bank-gold-last-week-legislator-idUSKCN1QG2QG

Since Venezuela has no more assets, Maduro is now selling the gold from the Venezuelan Central Bank.

Just stop and think about that for a moment.
I am not sure how much of the proceeds from selling gold goes into Maduro's personal pocket, or how much goes back to the Venezuelan people (in the form of buying food and such).

But even if they are selling gold to buy food, you can't do that for very long until the central bank has no more gold left. And what then ?

It's extremely painful to watch this train wreck unfolding, but I fear that this whole situation in Venezuela is not going to end well...




Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Neven on February 28, 2019, 08:47:03 AM
You guys (Lurk and Neven) seem to think that I am somehow promoting intervention in Venezuela.
Nothing would be further from the truth.

Let me state it clearly : I am absolutely against military intervention in Venezuela.

And also, I'm very confident that there will be no US military intervention in Venezuela.
It would not make ANY sense AT ALL at this point.

So can you guys please stop accusing me ?

Aha, so you're with Putin?  ;D
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Jim Hunt on February 28, 2019, 09:37:18 AM
Aha, so you're with Putin?  ;D

I've just broken my recent "political" duck by popping in here from the alleged "Algorithms of Hate (https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,2584.0.html)" thread.

I trust Rob also possesses an extremely dry Anglo Saxon sense of humour?
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 28, 2019, 11:40:15 AM
Did the Guardian report about the new arrivals of US troops & equipment and Special Forces and CIA Military Ops people in staging the "US defence forces" in Columbia and Costa Rica (or was that Puerto Rico) ?

So what was it. Colombia, Costa Rica or Puerto Rico ?


My bad .... the news reports said: in Columbia and (Costa Rica or Puerto Rico) for staging purposes. I posted it to the forum. Info overload, I'm not sure which posts. Rica Rico all sound the same to me. It was one of them. ;) 

Quote
What about the Israeli SAS Forces who are staging in Brazil - been there for over a week now, maybe two already? Did they mention them too?

Quote
You mean these guys ?

No. Not those guys :)
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 28, 2019, 11:52:26 AM

Even to the point where they send in Russian contract soldiers (from Prigozhin's Wagner group) into Venezuela (the actual military intervention that nobody talks about) to protect Maduro :

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/25/venezuela-maduro-russia-private-security-contractors

But but but Putin Puppet Donald Trump said Maduro was protected by Cuban Special Forces? He didn't trust his own military was the claim there. Maybe it's both Russian and Cuban? Maybe the Iranian Republican Guard is there too but the US and The Guardian do not know that yet? (smile)

Mmmm. Let's see. Cubans and Iranians too ?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-politics-russia-exclusive/exclusive-kremlin-linked-contractors-help-guard-venezuelas-maduro-sources-idUSKCN1PJ22M

Nope.

Just Prigozhin's Russian Wagner Group went to Venezuela to protect Maduro.


I quote ref news reports to. But I don't assume they are all true or accurate.

This Reuters has one named source who doesn't even work of Wagner - Yevgeny Shabayev - but knows people who do he 'claims'.

Putin's Press sec. said they have no information about this. There's no 3rd party confirmation. 2 or 3 unnamed sources 'say' is all they have. Wagner don;t confirm it, Venez. Govt doesn't confirm it. The "russian" journalists (like how could you trust them? smile) reported some aircraft traffic. No pics. No data. No witness statements on the record.

The reports about the Isrealies is no better. Which is why I would never argue the point with you or anyone. Just sharing what I know. Which of course is what you - do you trust that Reuters report as accurate that what those Russian sources and journalist say is what has happened, is the question.

And if it is true then what's the problem with having a high end military armed/trained back security team for a President who is being threatened by the most powerful regime change Govt. on earth?  Especially if they were invited in and given approval by the President/Govt. to be there.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 28, 2019, 12:00:53 PM
Lurk, you talk a lot, but say very little.

Whatever. On this topic I think I post a lot and say very little.

Quote
What's your opinion about what should happen in Venezuela right now.

After the removal of the threat of force by the USA, and Guaido wlakig back his self-declaration, then some serious genuine negotiations need to happen while the current Constituion is respected and the Rule of Law prevails. 

Quote
Lander (in your video above) calls for a national referendum.

I think that would be a good first step. Do you agree too ?

I'm unsure. I don't know enough about their situation to judge. I am unsure what the "question" was he wanted to be put. I cannot see it proceeding while Guaido continues his illegal (traitorous ?) activities and speech.

Quote
And if so, do you think that Maduro will agree as well ?

Unless something seriously changes re US aggression and Guaido stance, and the ongoing violent threats and acts by the Opposition "activists/militias" I seriously doubt it.

I would not if I was him. I would seek out reasonable people from the opposition, eg that Professor and the two who also ran for President last year, and see what kind of agreement coalition could be formed to move things forward. But none of them can stop the US aggressive stance or sanctions, nor would the US now willingly lift them - Trump et al have boxed themselves into a corner - while they progressively boxed maduro into a corner.

It is not going to end well. The US does not want it to end well. Therefore it doesn't really matter what Maduro does now. He cannot fix it and he cannot make it any worse.

Quote
Or will Maduro do nothing (except for continuing to print more money) ?

Humourous (?) question doesn't deserve an answer. :)
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 28, 2019, 12:12:31 PM
Lurk, you talk a lot, but say very little.

Whatever. On this topic I think I post a lot and say very little.

Quote
What's your opinion about what should happen in Venezuela right now.

After the removal of the threat of force by the USA, and Guaido wlakig back his self-declaration, then some serious genuine negotiations need to happen while the current Constituion is respected and the Rule of Law prevails. 

Quote
Lander (in your video above) calls for a national referendum.

I think that would be a good first step. Do you agree too ?

I'm unsure. I don't know enough about their situation to judge. I am unsure what the "question" was he wanted to be put. I cannot see it proceeding while Guaido continues his illegal (traitorous ?) activities and speech.

Quote
And if so, do you think that Maduro will agree as well ?

Unless something seriously changes re US aggression and Guaido stance, and the ongoing violent threats and acts by the Opposition "activists/militias" I seriously doubt it.

I would not if I was him. I would seek out reasonable people from the opposition, eg that Professor and the two who also ran for President last year, and see what kind of agreement coalition could be formed to move things forward. But none of them can stop the US aggressive stance or sanctions, nor would the US now willingly lift them - Trump et al have boxed themselves into a corner - while they progressively boxed maduro into a corner.

It is not going to end well. The US does not want it to end well. Therefore it doesn't really matter what Maduro does now. He cannot fix it and he cannot make it any worse.

Venezuela's only hope now is what their allies might do. If I was the head of Cuba, Turkey, India, China, Russia et al I would call the US bluff and send in the military, aircraft and naval ships with hundreds of missiles at the ready to defend the country and to remove the violence at the borders using overwhelming force. But I am a hard ass lefty and not a statesman. 

Quote
Or will Maduro do nothing (except for continuing to print more money) ?

Humourous (?) question doesn't deserve an answer. :)
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 28, 2019, 01:10:02 PM
Opinion
Jorge Ramos: The Dictator of Venezuela Earns His Title

Nicolás Maduro stole my television crew’s cameras and expelled me from the country, all because he was afraid of an interview.

By Jorge Ramos

Mr. Ramos is an anchor for the Univision network and the author of “Stranger: The Challenge of a Latino Immigrant in the Trump Era.”

    Feb. 27, 2019

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/27/opinion/jorge-ramos-venezuela.html




Political bias is destroying people’s faith in journalism
By Lara Logan
February 26, 2019

Quote
But on that one night, every week, in that one place, I knew the truth. And no one could take it from me because I learned it first hand.

I do my job today, some 30 years later, the same way I did it then: with an open mind, an open heart and a million questions. There is nothing more human than opinions and bias. To say we have none is dishonest. But what we do have as professional journalists is a simple standard to get us past that: two first-hand sources — question everything and independently verify. I didn’t invent this — I inherited it from people like Edward R. Murrow and I will keep passing it on.

Journalists are not activists. We may share the passion for a particular cause, but our job is to follow the facts wherever they may lead. We can’t ignore something that reflects badly on a noble cause, as an activist might. We have to care about the means as much as the end because our duty is to search for the whole truth.

Nor are we lawyers in a court of law, cherry-picking facts to prove our case. Fortunately, there is only one truth. How we feel about it, how we perceive it, those things are subjective but the truth itself is not.

Above all, we are not propagandists or political operatives. That is not our job.

https://nypost.com/2019/02/26/political-bias-is-destroying-peoples-faith-in-journalism/
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on February 28, 2019, 01:27:38 PM
February 28, 2019   

In an affluent part of Caracas, TRNN Correspondent Dimitri Lascaris discusses Venezuela’s crisis with ordinary Venezuelans

Q. What do you think is the best way out of this crisis?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7o5ngrqsC0
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: b_lumenkraft on February 28, 2019, 05:17:56 PM
Not 100% on topic but relevant to the debate here.

Loaded: A Disarming History of the 2nd Amendment - Review


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDX5i33GTXQ
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Neven on February 28, 2019, 11:37:40 PM
Quote
That's something you really won't know if you watch US media on Venezuela.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ny5KFTLyiRw
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on March 01, 2019, 04:41:28 AM
Quote
That's something you really won't know if you watch US media on Venezuela.

Key in this video is at 3:00.
Turns out Max Blumenthal had to pay in cash dollars.

Normal working Venezuelans get their salaries paid in Bolívar, which is worth not much more than the paper it's printed on. Hyperinflation KILLS the income of average citizens in Venezuela. And that is a direct result of Maduro simply printing money.

THAT is the problem. And THAT is why Venezuelans go hungry while Max Blumenthal shops in a dollar store.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on March 01, 2019, 04:51:52 AM
Aha, so you're with Putin?  ;D

I've just broken my recent "political" duck by popping in here from the alleged "Algorithms of Hate (https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,2584.0.html)" thread.

I trust Rob also possesses an extremely dry Anglo Saxon sense of humour?

Nice to see you here, Jim !

Yeah, I often get used as a punching bag here on the political threads, but I don't take anything personal. So I'm cool. Even though Neven moderates every one of my posts.  >:(

I would love to have the dry Anglo Saxon sense of humour you possess, but unfortunately I don't have any sense of humor that I'm aware of.   ;D
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 01, 2019, 05:50:00 AM
Quote
That's something you really won't know if you watch US media on Venezuela.

with Jimmy Dore Video

Transcript at the end-


14:35 "..... so there's the Washington Post
CNN every goddamn news station printing
pure propaganda pushing pure propaganda.

and now you know why they smear us you
know why the Washington Post put me in a
smear article now you know why CNN put
me in a smear article - a little jag off
comedian C student in his fucking garage
why -


because no one else is gonna tell
you the truth -- certainly not our
politicians and certainly not conspiracy
cowards like Rachel Maddow and friend
and people everybody at CNN that's not
gonna happen.




Unsurprisingly my other thread got derailed before I got seriously started.
I concur with having it closed.
But here's my very last word.
Then I leave Neven rot in the polit cesspit he has created.

----------------------

Vandana is both right and wrong on Obama/Copenhagen/Paris. (Thanks, SteveMDFP.)  I bet she understands that (as she knows some quantum mechanics).

I can still listen to her because she is not thinking out of her guts, but instead tries to get things right.  Unlike e.g. Jimmy Dore her motivation is not hate and polit grandstanding. Apropos:

To Neven,
I've watched enough crooked Hillary smear and hate ever since she got FLOTUS and tried health care reform. You are way deeper in the GOP trap than you seem to be able to imagine.  Polit Dunning-Krüger.  You are dangerously silly.

~~~
On to greener fields of discourse.

Such are the effects of Cognitive Dissonance and the Dunning--Krüger effect. It's always the other person who has the problem. (sigh)

I only partially agree with Martin's concluding "utterance of Hate" Neven. You are not "silly" but you're ideas, beliefs, values and facts are very "dangerous" to the present consensus "system."
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 01, 2019, 06:36:30 AM
What Does Venezuela Tell Us About Socialism in the USA? – with Paul Jay
February 27, 2019   

According to Trump, the crisis in a small country with an oil based economy, facing onerous sanctions, discredits the progressive socialist movement in the United States –  Paul Jay joins host Jacqueline Luqman

website transcript
https://therealnews.com/stories/what-does-venezuela-tell-us-about-socialism-in-the-usa-with-paul-jay

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CVf54Dy0TY
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 01, 2019, 06:53:47 AM
What Does Venezuela Tell Us About Socialism in the USA? – with Paul Jay
February 27, 2019   

A quoted section @ 3:30

Quote
PAUL JAY: Diversified forms of public ownership and workers collectives. But if you’re going to break down the power of the oligarchy, you’ve got to start working at a scale that really challenges them, particularly in the banking sector. That’s kind of another conversation from Venezuela, but just to say what could be done here. The Venezuelan experience doesn’t teach us that much, except maybe the forms of people’s democracy and the fact that a very progressive government came to power there.

Now, that being said, we should never underestimate that this is the heart of the empire. What’s possible in a small Latin American country, or even in Bolivia… Brazil was the biggest country to kind of go down that road, but you can see the external pressure the Brazilians were under in spite of the fact how Lula and the PT, to a large extent, played ball with global finance. Even there, even the modest reforms, in some way, that were being done in Brazil was too much. As soon as there was a weakness in Lula and the PT, they go for the jugular and get rid of them so they can have a more overt, reactionary type of exploitation.

What’s possible here, who knows? What I mean by who knows in this, you get these weird moments in history. Like even Chavez, it was a weird moment in history, where a charismatic guy shows up, the mass movement’s at a certain level, the Venezuelan economy was in trouble, it wasn’t la la land the way the media is talking about it. You get these weird convergences of moments. And we may get one.

This 2020 election might turn out to be that. Because if people start to understand how severe the threat of climate change is, to elect another climate denier or climate denier enabler, which is to a large extent what the corporate Dems were, because you pay lip service to the threat of climate, but you don’t really do anything about it.

JACQUELINE LUQMAN: They say, “We must do something about climate, but they don’t actually do anything about it.”

PAUL JAY: I went back and looked at Obama’s State of the Union messages. I looked at every State of the Union message to look what he said about climate. It was like, at best, a paragraph or two in a grocery list of all kinds of things, and it’s usually buried half way down his grocery list. One State of the Union didn’t even mention climate, like zero. And together with corporate media that barely covers the issue, I mean these are the people that enable a climate denier to get elected president.

JACQUELINE LUQMAN: But President Obama signed the Paris accord! Wasn’t that great, wasn’t that progress?

PAUL JAY: I mean, compared to Trump, maybe. But a study came out from seven of the leading climate scientists last fall that said if every country that signed the Paris Accord fulfilled all their pledges one hundred percent, we’re still going to cross the two degree threshold that’s a critical warming threshold by the year 2050. That Paris Accord was so far from what was needed and it wasn’t obligatory. So it’s not so hard to sign. The interesting thing is, and I mentioned this in an earlier interview I did, everyone’s talking about socialism now. Trump has to declare that socialism is going to be the great issue of the elections, and “the socialists this” and “the socialists that.”

JACQUELINE LUQMAN: He mentioned it in his State of the Union address.

PAUL JAY: But he doesn’t want to answer the question, why is socialism such an issue? Why are people that say they’re socialists getting elected? Because capitalism is out of answers.

JACQUELINE LUQMAN: Exactly.

PAUL JAY: It’s not the failure of socialism in Venezuela that’s the big story, it’s the failure of capitalism around the world to deal with climate change, to deal with the threat of accidental nuclear–and maybe deliberate–but accidental nuclear war, to deal with the threat of financial meltdown, which is surely coming sooner or later, to deal with the consequences of what AI is going to mean in terms of people’s employment and how the economy is going to look with artificial intelligence, to deal with the existing chronic poverty in cities across the country.

We’re in Baltimore here, this is decades and decades of deep, chronic poverty and a murder rate of what, three hundred fifty or more a year, more than New York. It’s because the system is out of answers that so many people are talking about socialism.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 01, 2019, 08:05:44 AM
What Does Venezuela Tell Us About Socialism in the USA? – with Paul Jay
February 27, 2019   

A quoted section @ 9:13 https://youtu.be/5CVf54Dy0TY?t=553

Quote
PAUL JAY: Well, the problem is corporate media has such a big platform and they keep repeating this crap.

You know, we’re pretty small. And the other voices that are trying to talk realistically about Venezuela are also relatively small and corporate media just bans the voice. I mean, no one’s calling me from corporate media to talk. Most of the guests that we have on who really know Venezuela never show up on corporate media, or almost never.

So the problem is that people don’t know the history. And the bigger problem is people don’t know their own history. There’s been such a demolishment of the public education system in this country, especially on the issue of teaching of history, and corporate media has really degenerated.

It was never so great to begin with, but there’s been a great degeneration, especially since 9/11.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 01, 2019, 08:17:35 AM
What Does Venezuela Tell Us About Socialism in the USA? – with Paul Jay
February 27, 2019   

A quoted section @ 9:13 https://youtu.be/5CVf54Dy0TY?t=553

Quote
PAUL JAY: Well, the problem is corporate media has such a big platform and they keep repeating this crap.

You know, we’re pretty small. And the other voices that are trying to talk realistically about Venezuela are also relatively small and corporate media just bans the voice. I mean, no one’s calling me from corporate media to talk. Most of the guests that we have on who really know Venezuela never show up on corporate media, or almost never.

So the problem is that people don’t know the history. And the bigger problem is people don’t know their own history. There’s been such a demolishment of the public education system in this country, especially on the issue of teaching of history, and corporate media has really degenerated.

It was never so great to begin with, but there’s been a great degeneration, especially since 9/11.


Quote
PAUL JAY:
Well, first of all, it is a failure of the kinds of policies that were developed over the years in the attempt to build socialism. There are certainly failures there. And to say otherwise is just naive and covering up the internal issues.

And as I said earlier in the interview, there was no game plan here how to develop socialism. The Venezuelan Bolivarian Revolution and this new government that came into being came into a system rife with corruption, as is true in most oil states. Corruption and big oil kind of go hand in hand. It’s hard to imagine much big oil without reams of corruption, especially countries that are very dependent on oil. So it wasn’t like corruption entered the scene.

And personally, I think perhaps they should have been better at fighting corruption during the Chavez years. But it’s a delicate balance, trying to have reforms and fight against corruption, [...] So this relationship of fighting corruption and taking on sections of the elites, it’s not a simple thing. And it’s easy, again, to sit here and pontificate. But there’s no question there were failures. Does this prove the failure of socialism? I mean, it’s ridiculous, because it’s one country’s experience.

[...] The manipulation, I think, to a large extent of the price of oil, had a lot to do with the problems in Venezuela. On the other hand, there was probably time to have a more diversified economy and not be so susceptible to a drop in the price of oil. [...] So sure, in the end the internal issue was critical. And yeah, I mean look at the situation, there is a failure there. That being said, one, it doesn’t prove anything about socialism in other countries and what’s possible and what isn’t.

And two, as I said earlier, a small country trying to defy global capital, and under such pressure and such attack, how do you judge the internal policies when there’s such external pressure on them? But yeah, there’s certainly failures there. But so what?
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 01, 2019, 08:55:43 AM
Opinion
Jorge Ramos: The Dictator of Venezuela Earns His Title

Nicolás Maduro stole my television crew’s cameras and expelled me from the country, all because he was afraid of an interview.
By Jorge Ramos

Jimmy Dore et al and Aaron Mate analysis-

[edit] Jimmy goes over the top on this one. He moves into "making all kinds of assumptions" mode about Jorge Ramos - iow impassioned opinions and conclusions - without any actual facts to back him up except the "appearances" he sees - iow a reflection of what most people do when  they they hear the nightly news, Fox, CNN, or read WaPo NYTs etc.

Aaron on the other hand is much more nuanced (and he uses that word in the discussions) he is able to separate assumptions and guesses from the facts of the matter. He cautioned caution of leaping to wild conclusions absent clear evidence to back it up the statements Jimmy was making.

But despite Jimmy being all too human here (and verbalising his frustrations), the relevance and the usefulness of the real information presented in this video (and the discussions about it) are still noteworthy and valid. Every individual is much better off when they are well informed and discerning and do not get caught in over the top presumptions, total falsehoods, and the emotional hand waving in front of their faces.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sk7gkZiXWbA
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Neven on March 01, 2019, 09:24:13 AM
THAT is the problem. And THAT is why Venezuelans go hungry while Max Blumenthal shops in a dollar store.

And THAT is exactly what Max Blumenthal is saying, and THAT is all you quote from Max Blumenthal, and THAT's because THAT's something you really won't know if you watch US media on Venezuela.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on March 01, 2019, 09:46:04 AM
Normal working Venezuelans get their salaries paid in Bolívar, which is worth not much more than the paper it's printed on. Hyperinflation KILLS the income of average citizens in Venezuela. And that is a direct result of Maduro simply printing money.
....
THAT is the problem. And THAT is why Venezuelans go hungry while Max Blumenthal shops in a dollar store.

And THAT is exactly what Max Blumenthal is saying, and THAT is all you quote from Max Blumenthal, and THAT's because THAT's something you really won't know if you watch US media on Venezuela.

What do you suggest is missing from my summary of Max Blumenthal's dollar store visit ?

Or do you agree that hyperinflation in Venezuela is caused by Maduro printing money while he is selling gold from the Venezuelan Central Bank ?

Basically, do you agree that at this point, Maduro is robbing the country blind ?

Or is it still all the US's fault ?
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Neven on March 01, 2019, 11:06:53 AM
As I've understood it, US mainstream media is selling the narrative that people in socialist Venezuela are starving because there's no food and therefore Trump/Bolton/Abrams/Pompeo are sending humanitarian aid, whereas they are meddling and pushing for regime change to force Venezuela to join the neoliberal economics party, so they and their oligarch buddies can enrich themselves with Venezuelan oil.

If you are implying that it's all because Maduro can't handle the hyperinflation, and so now some Harvard agent can rightfully proclaim himself king, with the entire world simply ignoring international law and accepting him as such, then you are wrong.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 01, 2019, 11:12:26 AM
LIVE online

Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov and Venezuelan Vice President Delcy Rodriguez are holding a joint press conference in Moscow as part of her official visit. Rodriguez and Lavrov are expected to discuss cooperation with Russia amid the political crisis in Venezuela.

https://www.rt.com/on-air/452741-lavrov-venezuela-vice-president-press/

[edit] that was interesting to watch. Someone's trying to ship high ends arms and SAMs from eastern European country into Venezuela as well as create "militarised groups" inside Venezuela (maybe similar to the Contras and ME terrorist/rebel groups?) Two new UNSC resolutions were Vetoed. I think one was to recognise Guaido as the legitimate President head of Govt.

meanwhile,  Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro has ordered the relocation of the European headquarters of the country’s state oil company PDVSA to Russia, said Venezuela's Vice President Delcy Rodriguez.

“President Maduro ordered to close the Lisbon office of PDVSA and move it to Moscow,” Rodriguez said on Friday at the joint news conference with Russia’s Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov during her visit to the Russian capital.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: b_lumenkraft on March 01, 2019, 11:19:58 AM
The Left Strategy For Venezuela & The New Imperialism In Latin America (TMBS 79)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQZRym7aZZE
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 02, 2019, 04:13:15 AM
The Left Strategy For Venezuela & The New Imperialism In Latin America (TMBS 79)


Quite good above.

I updated my intro comment about a JD video:

Every individual is much better off when they are well informed and discerning and do not get caught in over the top presumptions, total falsehoods, and the emotional hand waving in front of their faces.
https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,2571.msg190584.html#msg190584
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 02, 2019, 04:39:25 AM
Sidebar because of Bolton's "Troika of Tyrants" labelling

 
Quote
Cuba’s new Magna Carta reinforces the island’s revolutionary model, even as Washington ramps up its efforts against leftist governments in Latin America.

As Cubans lined up to cast their ballots over what is arguably the most significant reform seen by the country in half a century

Across the island, people went to the polls en masse to vote on a package of changes to the 1976 Constitution, with an overwhelming majority voting to support the new constitution.

Speaking to journalists at the International Press Center the day after the vote, Alina Balseiro Gutierrez, president of the National Electoral Commission, confirmed that voter turnout had exceeded 84 percent.

The ‘yes’ campaign obtained 90.6 percent, or roughly 6.8 million votes, compared to just over 700,000 who rejected the proposal.

    #Cuba has a new #Constitution according to preliminary results:
    - 7 848 343 Cubans went to vote
    - 6 816 169 voted Yes
    - 706 400 voted No
    🇨🇺 pic.twitter.com/Js6ofilb9q
    — Cuban Embassy in US (@EmbaCubaUS) February 25, 2019

https://www.rt.com/op-ed/452768-cuba-referendum-socialist-us/
---

btw The People in the US have not ever and will never get to Vote on a change to their own "exceptional" Constitution. They never got a to Vote on the first one either. They never got to Vote on declaring war against the British either. The elites decided that, and they still do.

Nothing has improved in this "twisted archaic version" of Democracy in the USA for 250 years. And hardly any cares because hardly anyone knows. The US Constitution is "exceptional" because compared to everyone else's Constitution it's the worst one in existence and can never be changed by or Voted on by The People.

So it is with people, glass houses & stones. 
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: b_lumenkraft on March 02, 2019, 06:16:19 PM
Venezuela: How We Learned to Stop Worrying and Trust the Neocons

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkLC3XyqrEY
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 03, 2019, 04:33:19 AM
Venezuela VP interview Video with RT - any claims of bias do not alter the fact this is from "the horses mouth"

In an exclusive interview with RT, Rodriguez said the Venezuelan government has already taken "concrete legal steps" to claim back the assets of which it was "robbed" by the US and which have been frozen by European banks

It was reported earlier that the Bank of England had blocked Venezuela's attempts to retrieve $1.2 billion worth of gold in the nation's foreign reserves. Venezuela's self-proclaimed and US-backed 'interim president' Juan Guido hailed the move as "protection" of the country's assets.

"We have hired lawyers to protect our interests, first and foremost, it concerns gold which has been unlawfully retained by the Bank of England," Rodriguez said.

The Venezuelan VP also said that Caracas would mount a legal defense against the US move to freeze $7 billion of assets belonging to the state-owned PDVSA oil and natural gas giant and its US subsidiary Citgo.

Asked what Guaido, who is now in Colombia, can expect when and if he returns to his home country, Rodriguez said that his actions, such as plotting to topple the government, would warrant a criminal prosecution.

"Such actions are prosecuted by criminal law. Also, there is a regulatory framework that our authorities are guided by. And they are already taking the necessary measures and will continue to protect our state of law and order," she said, without elaborating further.

https://www.rt.com/news/452884-delcy-rodriguez-interview-sanctions/
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Neven on March 03, 2019, 08:56:29 PM
I don't know if Lurk has already posted this video, but prof Wolff explains what America has had to do with Venezuela's hyperinflation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCddGxVEuEY
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 04, 2019, 01:17:04 AM
I don't know if Lurk has already posted this video,

What? You mean you have not looked at all my posts on this topic? Gee you know how to hurt a guy's feelings Neven. I'm feeling somewhat 'insulted' now. So much high quality work for nothing. :(

(smile)

It doesn't hurt to repeat that video it's a good one which reinforces the same story of what's behind the lies and deception in the western world.

US wants ‘broad’ regime-change coalition on Venezuela – Bolton
Published time: 3 Mar, 2019

 National Security Adviser John Bolton said that the United States will form “as broad a coalition” as possible to oust Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro. Bolton went on to call for a “completely democratic hemisphere.”

Quote
[ If was A REALITY BASED IDEAL then where is the broad coalition to make the USA a Democratic nation versus the despotic nation which it is? ]

“I’d like to see as broad a coalition as we can put together to replace Maduro, to replace the whole corrupt regime,” Bolton told CNN’s Jake Tapper on Sunday. “That’s what we’re trying to do.”

    .@AmbJohnBolton on Venezuela: “I’d like to see as broad a coalition as we can put together to replace Maduro” @jaketapper: Do you not see US support for other dictators around the world undermines the credibility of your argument?

    Bolton: “No, I don’t think it does." #CNNSOTU pic.twitter.com/hJH9br8E6t
    — CNN (@CNN) March 3, 2019

A US resolution condemning Maduro and calling for fresh elections in Venezuela was defeated at a meeting of the United Nations Security Council last week, and Maduro remains in control.

 Still, Bolton told Tapper that the US is not afraid to go it alone. “In this administration we’re not afraid to use the phrase ‘Monroe Doctrine,’” he said. “This is a country in our hemisphere and it’s been the objective of American presidents going back to Ronald Reagan to have a completely Democratic hemisphere.”

Quote
[ So Russia's attempts to maintain a geopolitical influence over Europe and central asia is the exact same thing, and yet look at all the US Military bases, US troops, CIA black spots, and missile launchers, and Naval forces all over Eastern Europe and in central asia the arctic and the baltic. Nothing to see here right? ]

    The self-defeating and dangerous John Bolton (this time, on #Venezuela):

    “In this administration we’re not afraid to use the phrase Monroe Doctrine.”

    Also says this having just said US wants as broad a coalition as possible to oust Maduro. Reviving Monroe Doctrine won’t do that pic.twitter.com/cFKuz8TKrk
    — Ryan Goodman (@rgoodlaw) March 3, 2019

The ‘Monroe Doctrine’ was the name given to the US policy of opposing European influence in the Western hemisphere, [..]

Bolton is not the only hardliner in Washington to use similar language to describe the situation in Venezuela. Senate Armed Services Committee chair Jim Inhofe (R-Oklahoma) said last month that the US might have to invade Venezuela if Russia dares set up a military base there or “anywhere in our Hemisphere.”

Quote
[ You know, Inhofe, the #1 climate science denying Neanderthal sociopath in the Republican party? ]

Nevertheless, US envoy Elliott Abrams - famed for his role running guns to the Contras in the early 1980s - told reporters on Friday that “all options are on the table.”

https://www.rt.com/usa/452920-bolton-venezuela-government-change/

Quote
Up is down.
In is out.
Left is right.


Which part of all this do people not recognise as more reflections of 1984 and Iraq War 2.0?

Are they blind or merely afraid to look at it?

Or happy to be gullible despite all the evidence of media manipulations worldwide?

This thread is a shame that I wish I hadn't had the displeasure to find.
Don't confuse Venezuela with its current Tirano.
People are dying under Maduro's oppression. Migrating to countries like Spain as refugees because they simply don't have Bread to Eat.
I don't understand why this manipulated content is allowed in this forum.
But now that it is allowed: todo el cariño y el ánimo al pueblo venezolano desde Europa! Abajo la tiranía!

The Empire vs Venezuela? Seriously?

Venezuela vs. Reason
Venezuela vs. its own people
Socialism still doesn't work

These 3 are the real subjects, not the above

I am truly amazed by the spread of socilaism in the West especially amongst the youth. It can only happen to those who did not live in a totalitarian-socialist/communist regime. I did. I know how terrible it is and why it does not work. We had a joke: "Introduce socialism in the Sahara and soon sand will be in short supply". These regimes ALWAYS destroy human dignity, lead to opression, suffering, and lowered living standards. I can not comprehend how anyone can take the side of Maduro (Chavez).

The West has lived too well for too long. You do not appreciate what you have, that is why you will lose it and be sorry afterwards but it will be too late by then. Witness the stupidity of Trump and Brexit - the writing is on the wall.



The only piece of the play book missing now is "the accusation" of Maduro has WMD. Be patient, won't take long until some 'military pawn' 'escapes with his life' to the US to tell today's Dick Cheney Maduro is stockpiling WMD and has the missiles to deliver it to Texas and Florida!

You cannot solve climate change problems with psychopaths running wild in the US White House and sociopaths leading Senate Committees.

A global coalition to bring down the corrupt criminal dictatorial US Regime and introduce a new US Constitution, Human Rights for all, plus a genuine democracy based on a functional Rule of Law system would solve most of the problems/barriers in the world whereby everyone could start seriously focusing on the real emergency the real crisis that is addressing climate change.

08:49
Dore: "Do you see that were ruled by Psychopaths? Do you see that the news media is filled with sociopaths and narcissists? Sociopaths - they're pushing for a war in Venezuela right now in the news media after Iraq Libya Syria they're still doing that - it's never gonna stop?"

It's never gonna stop unless and until the American people and/or the global Community of nations demands that it stops and forces it to be stopped. 

Until this insane deceitful crap by the USA political system is stopped then no genuine action plans to fight AGW/CC will ever become a global harmonized campaign that can work successfully.

"For the record Venezuela is no less democratic socialist, no less a working Democracy with checks and balances operating under the Rule of Law as those in the bottom left of your graph ... Norway, Denmark, Finland, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Germany, France, Spain, or Singapore. "

OMG. OMG. OMG.

Venezuela is a dictatorship (a lame one at that though). The reason they do not have food but have zillion percent inflation is their "21st century socialism". When the government regulates prices below the cost of production and people have no incentive to work, the result is a shortage and inflation. I am amazed. We tried this in Eastern Europe (also in Russia and China and Cuba and N.Korea) with the same results everywhere but people still do not learn. I am sorry to disturb your dilusions, I promise I won't do it anymore. Have you lived in a country like me, you wouldn't need those history lessons because you would have first hand experience. I promise to leave your thread to you and your brave fight against the Empire. viva la revolucion!



Frankly I do not care what happens in or to Venezuela btw. It's none of my business let alone my responsibility to fix.

The key issue for me is not Venezuela itself but that this issue again presents another opportunity for millions of people in and out of the USA to finally face up to and shake off their Conditioning.

It's an opportunity for people to re-evaluate, to drop their many Cultural Myths and personal Beliefs that are no longer sustainable in present time.

That those myths and beliefs they have lived their entire lives accepting as Tuisms are now far less sustainable than even BAU on this planet is Sustainable.


Events like Venezuela then is another opportunity  for people to confront themselves and change how they think about everything now. The more who do this the better for everyone.

The sooner genuine systemic changes can begin to be put in place to solve the looming global catastrophe that is AGW/CC.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 04, 2019, 01:24:15 AM
I don't know if Lurk has already posted this video,

What? You mean you have not looked at all my posts on this topic? Gee you know how to hurt a guy's feelings Neven. I'm feeling somewhat 'insulted' now. So much high quality work for nothing. :(

(smile) It is a good summary video about the economics and how that affects different nations when the levers are pulled one way or another. It doesn't hurt to repeat that video it's a good one which reinforces the same story of what's behind the lies and deception in the western world.

There's not too much left to really say about the matter. But things are not looking good for Venezuela despite the many people's and leadership "positiveness" in public.

quoting this RT report:
US wants ‘broad’ regime-change coalition on Venezuela – Bolton
Published time: 3 Mar, 2019

 National Security Adviser John Bolton said that the United States will form “as broad a coalition” as possible to oust Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro. Bolton went on to call for a “completely democratic hemisphere.”

Quote
[ If was A REALITY BASED IDEAL then where is the broad coalition to make the USA a Democratic nation versus the despotic nation which it is? ]

“I’d like to see as broad a coalition as we can put together to replace Maduro, to replace the whole corrupt regime,” Bolton told CNN’s Jake Tapper on Sunday. “That’s what we’re trying to do.”

    .@AmbJohnBolton on Venezuela: “I’d like to see as broad a coalition as we can put together to replace Maduro” @jaketapper: Do you not see US support for other dictators around the world undermines the credibility of your argument?

    Bolton: “No, I don’t think it does." #CNNSOTU pic.twitter.com/hJH9br8E6t
    — CNN (@CNN) March 3, 2019

A US resolution condemning Maduro and calling for fresh elections in Venezuela was defeated at a meeting of the United Nations Security Council last week, and Maduro remains in control.

 Still, Bolton told Tapper that the US is not afraid to go it alone. “In this administration we’re not afraid to use the phrase ‘Monroe Doctrine,’” he said. “This is a country in our hemisphere and it’s been the objective of American presidents going back to Ronald Reagan to have a completely Democratic hemisphere.”

Quote
[ So Russia's attempts to maintain a geopolitical influence over Europe and central asia is the exact same thing, and yet look at all the US Military bases, US troops, CIA black spots, and missile launchers, and Naval forces all over Eastern Europe and in central asia the arctic and the baltic. Nothing to see here right? ]

    The self-defeating and dangerous John Bolton (this time, on #Venezuela):

    “In this administration we’re not afraid to use the phrase Monroe Doctrine.”

    Also says this having just said US wants as broad a coalition as possible to oust Maduro. Reviving Monroe Doctrine won’t do that pic.twitter.com/cFKuz8TKrk
    — Ryan Goodman (@rgoodlaw) March 3, 2019

The ‘Monroe Doctrine’ was the name given to the US policy of opposing European influence in the Western hemisphere, [..]

Bolton is not the only hardliner in Washington to use similar language to describe the situation in Venezuela. Senate Armed Services Committee chair Jim Inhofe (R-Oklahoma) said last month that the US might have to invade Venezuela if Russia dares set up a military base there or “anywhere in our Hemisphere.”

Quote
[ You know, Inhofe, the #1 climate science denying Neanderthal sociopath in the Republican party? ]

Nevertheless, US envoy Elliott Abrams - famed for his role running guns to the Contras in the early 1980s - told reporters on Friday that “all options are on the table.”

https://www.rt.com/usa/452920-bolton-venezuela-government-change/

Quote
Up is down.
In is out.
Left is right.


Which part of all this do people not recognise as more reflections of 1984 and Iraq War 2.0?

Are they blind or merely afraid to look at it?

Or happy to be gullible despite all the evidence of media manipulations worldwide?

This thread is a shame that I wish I hadn't had the displeasure to find.
Don't confuse Venezuela with its current Tirano.
People are dying under Maduro's oppression. Migrating to countries like Spain as refugees because they simply don't have Bread to Eat.
I don't understand why this manipulated content is allowed in this forum.
But now that it is allowed: todo el cariño y el ánimo al pueblo venezolano desde Europa! Abajo la tiranía!

The Empire vs Venezuela? Seriously?

Venezuela vs. Reason
Venezuela vs. its own people
Socialism still doesn't work

These 3 are the real subjects, not the above

I am truly amazed by the spread of socilaism in the West especially amongst the youth. It can only happen to those who did not live in a totalitarian-socialist/communist regime. I did. I know how terrible it is and why it does not work. We had a joke: "Introduce socialism in the Sahara and soon sand will be in short supply". These regimes ALWAYS destroy human dignity, lead to opression, suffering, and lowered living standards. I can not comprehend how anyone can take the side of Maduro (Chavez).

The West has lived too well for too long. You do not appreciate what you have, that is why you will lose it and be sorry afterwards but it will be too late by then. Witness the stupidity of Trump and Brexit - the writing is on the wall.



The only piece of the play book missing now is "the accusation" of Maduro has WMD. Be patient, won't take long until some 'military pawn' 'escapes with his life' to the US to tell today's Dick Cheney Maduro is stockpiling WMD and has the missiles to deliver it to Texas and Florida!

You cannot solve climate change problems with psychopaths running wild in the US White House and sociopaths leading Senate Committees.

A global coalition to bring down the corrupt criminal dictatorial US Regime and introduce a new US Constitution, Human Rights for all, plus a genuine democracy based on a functional Rule of Law system would solve most of the problems/barriers in the world whereby everyone could start seriously focusing on the real emergency the real crisis that is addressing climate change.

08:49
Dore: "Do you see that were ruled by Psychopaths? Do you see that the news media is filled with sociopaths and narcissists? Sociopaths - they're pushing for a war in Venezuela right now in the news media after Iraq Libya Syria they're still doing that - it's never gonna stop?"

It's never gonna stop unless and until the American people and/or the global Community of nations demands that it stops and forces it to be stopped. 

Until this insane deceitful crap by the USA political system is stopped then no genuine action plans to fight AGW/CC will ever become a global harmonized campaign that can work successfully.

"For the record Venezuela is no less democratic socialist, no less a working Democracy with checks and balances operating under the Rule of Law as those in the bottom left of your graph ... Norway, Denmark, Finland, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Germany, France, Spain, or Singapore. "

OMG. OMG. OMG.

Venezuela is a dictatorship (a lame one at that though). The reason they do not have food but have zillion percent inflation is their "21st century socialism". When the government regulates prices below the cost of production and people have no incentive to work, the result is a shortage and inflation. I am amazed. We tried this in Eastern Europe (also in Russia and China and Cuba and N.Korea) with the same results everywhere but people still do not learn. I am sorry to disturb your dilusions, I promise I won't do it anymore. Have you lived in a country like me, you wouldn't need those history lessons because you would have first hand experience. I promise to leave your thread to you and your brave fight against the Empire. viva la revolucion!



Frankly I do not care what happens in or to Venezuela btw. It's none of my business let alone my responsibility to fix.

The key issue for me is not Venezuela itself but that this issue again presents another opportunity for millions of people in and out of the USA to finally face up to and shake off their Conditioning.

It's an opportunity for people to re-evaluate, to drop their many Cultural Myths and personal Beliefs that are no longer sustainable in present time.

That those myths and beliefs they have lived their entire lives accepting as Tuisms are now far less sustainable than even BAU on this planet is Sustainable.


Events like Venezuela then is another opportunity  for people to confront themselves and change how they think about everything now. The more who do this the better for everyone.

The sooner genuine systemic changes can begin to be put in place to solve the looming global catastrophe that is AGW/CC.

Tinkering around the margins while living on 'Hope', nor building out renewables or manufacturing a million Teslas a year is not going to change a thing.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 04, 2019, 01:43:13 AM
I don't know if Lurk has already posted this video,

What? You mean you have not looked at all my posts on this topic? Gee you know how to hurt a guy's feelings Neven. I'm feeling somewhat 'insulted' now. So much high quality work for nothing. :(

(smile) It is a good summary video about the economics and how that affects different nations when the levers are pulled one way or another. It doesn't hurt to repeat that video it's a good one which reinforces the same story of what's behind the lies and deception in the western world.

There's not too much left to really say about the matter. But things are not looking good for Venezuela despite the many people's and leadership "positiveness" in public.

quoting this RT report:
US wants ‘broad’ regime-change coalition on Venezuela – Bolton
Published time: 3 Mar, 2019

 National Security Adviser John Bolton said that the United States will form “as broad a coalition” as possible to oust Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro. Bolton went on to call for a “completely democratic hemisphere.”

Quote
[ If was A REALITY BASED IDEAL then where is the broad coalition to make the USA a Democratic nation versus the despotic nation which it is? ]

“I’d like to see as broad a coalition as we can put together to replace Maduro, to replace the whole corrupt regime,” Bolton told CNN’s Jake Tapper on Sunday. “That’s what we’re trying to do.”

    .@AmbJohnBolton on Venezuela: “I’d like to see as broad a coalition as we can put together to replace Maduro” @jaketapper: Do you not see US support for other dictators around the world undermines the credibility of your argument?

    Bolton: “No, I don’t think it does." #CNNSOTU pic.twitter.com/hJH9br8E6t
    — CNN (@CNN) March 3, 2019

A US resolution condemning Maduro and calling for fresh elections in Venezuela was defeated at a meeting of the United Nations Security Council last week, and Maduro remains in control.

 Still, Bolton told Tapper that the US is not afraid to go it alone. “In this administration we’re not afraid to use the phrase ‘Monroe Doctrine,’” he said. “This is a country in our hemisphere and it’s been the objective of American presidents going back to Ronald Reagan to have a completely Democratic hemisphere.”

Quote
[ So Russia's attempts to maintain a geopolitical influence over Europe and central asia is the exact same thing, and yet look at all the US Military bases, US troops, CIA black spots, and missile launchers, and Naval forces all over Eastern Europe and in central asia the arctic and the baltic. Nothing to see here right? ]

    The self-defeating and dangerous John Bolton (this time, on #Venezuela):

    “In this administration we’re not afraid to use the phrase Monroe Doctrine.”

    Also says this having just said US wants as broad a coalition as possible to oust Maduro. Reviving Monroe Doctrine won’t do that pic.twitter.com/cFKuz8TKrk
    — Ryan Goodman (@rgoodlaw) March 3, 2019

The ‘Monroe Doctrine’ was the name given to the US policy of opposing European influence in the Western hemisphere, [..]

Bolton is not the only hardliner in Washington to use similar language to describe the situation in Venezuela. Senate Armed Services Committee chair Jim Inhofe (R-Oklahoma) said last month that the US might have to invade Venezuela if Russia dares set up a military base there or “anywhere in our Hemisphere.”

Quote
[ You know, Inhofe, the #1 climate science denying Neanderthal sociopath in the Republican party? ]

Nevertheless, US envoy Elliott Abrams - famed for his role running guns to the Contras in the early 1980s - told reporters on Friday that “all options are on the table.”

https://www.rt.com/usa/452920-bolton-venezuela-government-change/

Quote
Up is down.
In is out.
Left is right.


Which part of all this do people not recognise as more reflections of 1984 and Iraq War 2.0?

Are they blind or merely afraid to look at it?

Or happy to be gullible despite all the evidence of media manipulations worldwide?

This thread is a shame that I wish I hadn't had the displeasure to find.
Don't confuse Venezuela with its current Tirano.
People are dying under Maduro's oppression. Migrating to countries like Spain as refugees because they simply don't have Bread to Eat.
I don't understand why this manipulated content is allowed in this forum.
But now that it is allowed: todo el cariño y el ánimo al pueblo venezolano desde Europa! Abajo la tiranía!

The Empire vs Venezuela? Seriously?

Venezuela vs. Reason
Venezuela vs. its own people
Socialism still doesn't work

These 3 are the real subjects, not the above

I am truly amazed by the spread of socilaism in the West especially amongst the youth. It can only happen to those who did not live in a totalitarian-socialist/communist regime. I did. I know how terrible it is and why it does not work. We had a joke: "Introduce socialism in the Sahara and soon sand will be in short supply". These regimes ALWAYS destroy human dignity, lead to opression, suffering, and lowered living standards. I can not comprehend how anyone can take the side of Maduro (Chavez).

The West has lived too well for too long. You do not appreciate what you have, that is why you will lose it and be sorry afterwards but it will be too late by then. Witness the stupidity of Trump and Brexit - the writing is on the wall.



The only piece of the play book missing now is "the accusation" of Maduro has WMD. Be patient, won't take long until some 'military pawn' 'escapes with his life' to the US to tell today's Dick Cheney Maduro is stockpiling WMD and has the missiles to deliver it to Texas and Florida!

You cannot solve climate change problems with psychopaths running wild in the US White House and sociopaths leading Senate Committees.

A global coalition to bring down the corrupt criminal dictatorial US Regime and introduce a new US Constitution, Human Rights for all, plus a genuine democracy based on a functional Rule of Law system would solve most of the problems/barriers in the world whereby everyone could start seriously focusing on the real emergency the real crisis that is addressing climate change.

08:49
Dore: "Do you see that were ruled by Psychopaths? Do you see that the news media is filled with sociopaths and narcissists? Sociopaths - they're pushing for a war in Venezuela right now in the news media after Iraq Libya Syria they're still doing that - it's never gonna stop?"

It's never gonna stop unless and until the American people and/or the global Community of nations demands that it stops and forces it to be stopped. 

Until this insane deceitful crap by the USA political system is stopped then no genuine action plans to fight AGW/CC will ever become a global harmonized campaign that can work successfully.

"For the record Venezuela is no less democratic socialist, no less a working Democracy with checks and balances operating under the Rule of Law as those in the bottom left of your graph ... Norway, Denmark, Finland, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Germany, France, Spain, or Singapore. "

OMG. OMG. OMG.

Venezuela is a dictatorship (a lame one at that though). The reason they do not have food but have zillion percent inflation is their "21st century socialism". When the government regulates prices below the cost of production and people have no incentive to work, the result is a shortage and inflation. I am amazed. We tried this in Eastern Europe (also in Russia and China and Cuba and N.Korea) with the same results everywhere but people still do not learn. I am sorry to disturb your dilusions, I promise I won't do it anymore. Have you lived in a country like me, you wouldn't need those history lessons because you would have first hand experience. I promise to leave your thread to you and your brave fight against the Empire. viva la revolucion!



Frankly I do not care what happens in or to Venezuela btw. It's none of my business let alone my responsibility to fix.

The key issue for me is not Venezuela itself but that this issue again presents another opportunity for millions of people in and out of the USA to finally face up to and shake off their Conditioning.

It's an opportunity for people to re-evaluate, to drop their many Cultural Myths and personal Beliefs that are no longer sustainable in present time.

That those myths and beliefs they have lived their entire lives accepting as Tuisms are now far less sustainable than even BAU on this planet is Sustainable.


Events like Venezuela then is another opportunity  for people to confront themselves and change how they think about everything now. The more who do this the better for everyone.

The sooner genuine systemic changes can begin to be put in place to solve the looming global catastrophe that is AGW/CC.

Tinkering around the margins while living on 'Hope', nor building out renewables or manufacturing a million Teslas a year is not going to change a thing.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 04, 2019, 02:15:16 AM
I don't know if Lurk has already posted this video,

What? You mean you have not looked at all my posts on this topic? Gee you know how to hurt a guy's feelings Neven. I'm feeling somewhat 'insulted' now. So much high quality work for nothing.

(smile) It is a good summary video about the economics and how that affects different nations when the levers are pulled one way or another. It doesn't hurt to repeat that video which reinforces the same story of what's behind the lies and deception about Venezuela and every other 'story' and 'myth' going around.

There's not too much left to really say about the matter. But things are not looking good for Venezuela despite the many people's and leadership "positiveness" in public.

quoting this RT report:
US wants ‘broad’ regime-change coalition on Venezuela – Bolton
Published time: 3 Mar, 2019

 National Security Adviser John Bolton said that the United States will form “as broad a coalition” as possible to oust Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro. Bolton went on to call for a “completely democratic hemisphere.”

Quote
[ If was A REALITY BASED IDEAL then where is the broad coalition to make the USA a Democratic nation versus the despotic nation which it is? ]

“I’d like to see as broad a coalition as we can put together to replace Maduro, to replace the whole corrupt regime,” Bolton told CNN’s Jake Tapper on Sunday. “That’s what we’re trying to do.”

    .@AmbJohnBolton on Venezuela: “I’d like to see as broad a coalition as we can put together to replace Maduro” @jaketapper: Do you not see US support for other dictators around the world undermines the credibility of your argument?

    Bolton: “No, I don’t think it does." #CNNSOTU pic.twitter.com/hJH9br8E6t
    — CNN (@CNN) March 3, 2019

A US resolution condemning Maduro and calling for fresh elections in Venezuela was defeated at a meeting of the United Nations Security Council last week, and Maduro remains in control.

 Still, Bolton told Tapper that the US is not afraid to go it alone. “In this administration we’re not afraid to use the phrase ‘Monroe Doctrine,’” he said. “This is a country in our hemisphere and it’s been the objective of American presidents going back to Ronald Reagan to have a completely Democratic hemisphere.”

Quote
[ So Russia's attempts to maintain a geopolitical influence over Europe and central asia is the exact same thing, and yet look at all the US Military bases, US troops, CIA black spots, and missile launchers, and Naval forces all over Eastern Europe and in central asia the arctic and the baltic. Nothing to see here right? ]

    The self-defeating and dangerous John Bolton (this time, on #Venezuela):

    “In this administration we’re not afraid to use the phrase Monroe Doctrine.”

    Also says this having just said US wants as broad a coalition as possible to oust Maduro. Reviving Monroe Doctrine won’t do that pic.twitter.com/cFKuz8TKrk
    — Ryan Goodman (@rgoodlaw) March 3, 2019

The ‘Monroe Doctrine’ was the name given to the US policy of opposing European influence in the Western hemisphere, [..]

Bolton is not the only hardliner in Washington to use similar language to describe the situation in Venezuela. Senate Armed Services Committee chair Jim Inhofe (R-Oklahoma) said last month that the US might have to invade Venezuela if Russia dares set up a military base there or “anywhere in our Hemisphere.”

Quote
[ You know, Inhofe, the #1 climate science denying Neanderthal sociopath in the Republican party? ]

Nevertheless, US envoy Elliott Abrams - famed for his role running guns to the Contras in the early 1980s - told reporters on Friday that “all options are on the table.”

https://www.rt.com/usa/452920-bolton-venezuela-government-change/

Quote
Up is down.
In is out.
Left is right.


Which part of all this do people not recognise as more reflections of 1984 and Iraq War 2.0?

Are they blind or merely afraid to look at it?

Or happy to be gullible despite all the evidence of media manipulations worldwide?

This thread is a shame that I wish I hadn't had the displeasure to find.
Don't confuse Venezuela with its current Tirano.
People are dying under Maduro's oppression. Migrating to countries like Spain as refugees because they simply don't have Bread to Eat.
I don't understand why this manipulated content is allowed in this forum.
But now that it is allowed: todo el cariño y el ánimo al pueblo venezolano desde Europa! Abajo la tiranía!

The Empire vs Venezuela? Seriously?

Venezuela vs. Reason
Venezuela vs. its own people
Socialism still doesn't work

These 3 are the real subjects, not the above

I am truly amazed by the spread of socilaism in the West especially amongst the youth. It can only happen to those who did not live in a totalitarian-socialist/communist regime. I did. I know how terrible it is and why it does not work. We had a joke: "Introduce socialism in the Sahara and soon sand will be in short supply". These regimes ALWAYS destroy human dignity, lead to opression, suffering, and lowered living standards. I can not comprehend how anyone can take the side of Maduro (Chavez).

The West has lived too well for too long. You do not appreciate what you have, that is why you will lose it and be sorry afterwards but it will be too late by then. Witness the stupidity of Trump and Brexit - the writing is on the wall.



The only piece of the play book missing now is "the accusation" of Maduro has WMD. Be patient, won't take long until some 'military pawn' 'escapes with his life' to the US to tell today's Dick Cheney Maduro is stockpiling WMD and has the missiles to deliver it to Texas and Florida!

You cannot solve climate change problems with psychopaths running wild in the US White House and sociopaths leading Senate Committees.

A global coalition to bring down the corrupt criminal dictatorial US Regime and introduce a new US Constitution, Human Rights for all, plus a genuine democracy based on a functional Rule of Law system would solve most of the problems/barriers in the world whereby everyone could start seriously focusing on the real emergency the real crisis that is addressing climate change.

08:49
Dore: "Do you see that were ruled by Psychopaths? Do you see that the news media is filled with sociopaths and narcissists? Sociopaths - they're pushing for a war in Venezuela right now in the news media after Iraq Libya Syria they're still doing that - it's never gonna stop?"

It's never gonna stop unless and until the American people and/or the global Community of nations demands that it stops and forces it to be stopped. 

Until this insane deceitful crap by the USA political system is stopped then no genuine action plans to fight AGW/CC will ever become a global harmonized campaign that can work successfully.

"For the record Venezuela is no less democratic socialist, no less a working Democracy with checks and balances operating under the Rule of Law as those in the bottom left of your graph ... Norway, Denmark, Finland, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Germany, France, Spain, or Singapore. "

OMG. OMG. OMG.

Venezuela is a dictatorship (a lame one at that though). The reason they do not have food but have zillion percent inflation is their "21st century socialism". When the government regulates prices below the cost of production and people have no incentive to work, the result is a shortage and inflation. I am amazed. We tried this in Eastern Europe (also in Russia and China and Cuba and N.Korea) with the same results everywhere but people still do not learn. I am sorry to disturb your dilusions, I promise I won't do it anymore. Have you lived in a country like me, you wouldn't need those history lessons because you would have first hand experience. I promise to leave your thread to you and your brave fight against the Empire. viva la revolucion!



Frankly I do not care what happens in or to Venezuela btw. It's none of my business let alone my responsibility to fix.

The key issue for me is not Venezuela itself but that this issue again presents another opportunity for millions of people in and out of the USA to finally face up to and shake off their Conditioning.

It's an opportunity for people to re-evaluate, to drop their many Cultural Myths and personal Beliefs that are no longer sustainable in present time.

That those myths and beliefs they have lived their entire lives accepting as Tuisms are now far less sustainable than even BAU on this planet is Sustainable.


Events like Venezuela then is another opportunity  for people to confront themselves and change how they think about everything now. The more who do this the better for everyone.

The sooner genuine systemic changes can begin to be put in place to solve the looming global catastrophe that is AGW/CC.

Tinkering around the margins while living on 'Hope', nor building out renewables or manufacturing a million Teslas a year is not going to change a thing.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on March 04, 2019, 10:07:32 AM
If you are implying that it's all because Maduro can't handle the hyperinflation, and so now some Harvard agent can rightfully proclaim himself king, with the entire world simply ignoring international law and accepting him as such, then you are wrong.

No international law was broken.

As I understand it, under the 1999 (Hugo Chavez) Constitution the National Assembly (which is democratically elected) is the nations legislative body.

It has the right to vote to invalidate the presidential election, and call for re-election. They did so in the case of Maduro in the January elections :
https://www.rappler.com/world/regions/latin-america/220407-venezuela-national-assembly-rejects-nicolas-maduro-second-term
So as far as the democratically elected body of Venezuela is concerned, the country is currently without a president.

Article 233 of the Venezuelan Constitution :
https://venezuela.justia.com/federales/constitucion-de-la-republica-bolivariana-de-venezuela/titulo-v/capitulo-ii/#articulo-233
states that in case of "absence" of the President of Venezuela, new elections must be started and in the interim the Head of the Venezuelan Assembly would act as provisional president.

If you believe that there is still democracy in Venezuela, then at this point Maduro is OUT, and Guiado, being the elected president of the National Assembly would thus at this point be the provisional president until a new president is elected with the new elections.

So if you side with Maduro it is a coup (although an institutional one), if you side with Guaido it is just following the Constitution and the coup (if any) was effected by Maduro at the elections and before.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Neven on March 04, 2019, 10:33:03 AM
Keep pushing for regime change, Rob.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on March 04, 2019, 10:42:09 AM
As I've understood it, US mainstream media is selling the narrative that people in socialist Venezuela are starving because there's no food

Sure Neven, but Maduro has found a very good solution for that : Venezuelans should eat rabbits :
https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2017/09/14/551026492/let-them-eat-rabbit-is-venezuelan-presidents-response-to-food-shortages
Quote
Maduro hopes the small mammal will counter the impact of what he calls a huge "economic war" waged against him by "imperialists" — notably the United States and his arch-enemy, President Donald Trump.

Of course the main problem is much more basic :

Venezuelans cannot afford food, because the economy is in the tank, there is hyperinflation because Venezuela has NO income, and the Maduro regime is printing worthless paper as salaries to the people.

The country is BANKRUPT (Maduro is selling even the gold from the central bank, and who know how much he keeps for himself), and the political system is now a dictatorship.

And that's why 3 million Venezuelans left the country.
And the UN estimates another 2 million are to come this year.

If Maduro doesn't resign himself, this is not going to end well.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on March 04, 2019, 10:43:29 AM
Keep pushing for regime change, Rob.

Keep supporting a criminal dictator that steals the country blind, Neven.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on March 04, 2019, 11:02:28 AM
I don't know if Lurk has already posted this video, but prof Wolff explains what America has had to do with Venezuela's hyperinflation:

Yes, Lurk posted this before, and it is as irrelevant as it was back then.

The video is mostly about the New Deal and the Green New Deal.

There is actually very little about the Venezuelan hyperinflation, and literally NOTHING about what the US supposedly has to do with that.

That's because the Venezuelan hyperinflation is caused ONLY by Maduro simply printing money to pay his bills.

After Maduro killed the country's oil production, and got Venezuela deeply in debt with the Russians and the Chinese, Maduro has no assets left over.

He is even selling the gold in the Venezuelan Federal Reserve :

https://nypost.com/2019/02/01/venezuelas-maduro-to-sell-gold-reserves-to-prop-up-regime/

Maduro destroyed the country and stole everything there is to steel from the Venezuelan people.

If he doesn't resign himself, this is not going to end well.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 04, 2019, 11:05:25 AM
As I understand it,

Maybe you don't though. Sources can be tricky. The issue you raise has been addressed in multiple prior posts here already.

For a start the National assembly has no right to call a new presidential election on it's own - "Venezuela's constitution gives voters the right to recall their president if they collect enough signatures to do so". They need 2.5 million signatures. No one has bothered to do that since Maduro was elected.

You may make a note that on this and many other scores Venezuela is far more democratic, with far more checks and balances for the people to maintaining a level of supervision over their elected officials than exists in the USA - and elsewhere.

What a bummer that Trump could not be recalled and face a re-election contest last November with only a 40% approval rating. The same with Macron with numbers somewhere between 10% and 20% depending on which it is taken. :)

Then there's the problem of your understanding about the National Assembly and it's non-existence.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Venezuelan_Constituent_Assembly_election

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Venezuelan_referendum


2017 constitutional crisis
See also: 2017 Venezuelan constitutional crisis

On 29 March 2017, the Supreme Court (TSJ) stripped the Assembly of its powers, ruling that all powers would be transferred to the Supreme Court. The previous year the Court found the Assembly in contempt for swearing in legislators whose elections had been deemed invalid by the court.[5] The 2017 court judgement declared that the "situation of contempt" meant that the Assembly could not exercise its powers.[6] The action transferred powers from the Assembly, which had an opposition majority since January 2016,[6] to the Supreme Court, which has a majority of government loyalists.[5] The move was denounced by the opposition with Assembly President Julio Borges describing the action as a coup d'état by President Nicolás Maduro.[5] However, after public protests and condemnation by international bodies, the court's decision was reversed a few days later on 1 April.[7][8]

On 4 August 2017, Venezuela convened a new Constituent Assembly after a special election which was boycotted by opposition parties [7]. The new Constituent Assembly is intended to rewrite the constitution; it also has wide legal powers allowing it to rule above all other state institutions. The Constituent Assembly meets within the Federal Legislative Palace; the leadership of the National Assembly have said it would continue its work as a legislature and it will still continue to meet in the same building.[9]

On 18 August the Constituent Assembly summoned the members of the National Assembly to attend a ceremony acknowledging its legal superiority; the opposition members of the National Assembly boycotted the event.[10] In response, the Constitutional Assembly stripped the National Assembly of its legislative powers, assuming them for itself.[11] It justified the move by claiming that the National Assembly had failed to prevent what it called "opposition violence" in the form of the 2017 Venezuelan protests.[12] The constitutionality of this move has been questioned, and it has been condemned by several foreign governments and international bodies.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Assembly_(Venezuela)

This has been covered several times in previous posts and video interviews btw

People can question it all they wish but it is a done deal. This Constitutional crisis continues and if allowed will be resolved by the people and institutions of Venezuela under the Law and under the Constitution of Venezuela which was ratified by a huge majority Vote of the people - as were the 2017 Referendum and the  Constituent Assembly equally "free and fairly" Voted on by the People with a huge majority.

Now you may not like that, and Bolton may not like that and Quaido may not like that BUT TOUGH LUCK. It's the Law and it is also the reality on the ground. Quaido is a no body with no title and no job. If he gets invited to negotiations as part of the Opposition with Maduro et al he will consider himself lucky.

Most of the Opposition parties spat the dummy, took their dolly and went home to mama. They lost. It happens. They need to get over that and grow up.

Because at the moment Quaido he deemed a "suspected criminal" under Venezuelan Law - and I would no be surprised if there are warrants out for his immediate arrest.

No one is above the Law are they Rob? Not even Donald Trump, right?
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on March 04, 2019, 11:14:34 AM
I don't know if Lurk has already posted this video, but prof Wolff explains what America has had to do with Venezuela's hyperinflation:

Yes, Lurk posted this before, and it is as irrelevant as it was back then.

The video is mostly about the New Deal and the Green New Deal.

There is actually very little about the Venezuelan hyperinflation, and literally NOTHING about what the US supposedly has to do with that.

That's because the Venezuelan hyperinflation is caused ONLY by Maduro simply printing money to pay his bills.

After he killed the country's oil production, and got Venezuela deep in debt with the Russians and the Chinese, Maduro had no income left over.

So now he is even selling the gold in the Venezuelan Federal Reserve to get SOME cash :

https://nypost.com/2019/02/01/venezuelas-maduro-to-sell-gold-reserves-to-prop-up-regime/

Maduro destroyed the country and stole everything there is to steel from the Venezuelan people.

If he doesn't resign himself, this is not going to end well.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on March 04, 2019, 11:27:41 AM
You are one different kind of cookie, Lurk.

Unbelievable, how you spend so much time, words and red herrings defending your favorite dictators.

In this case Maduro. On other occasions Putin and Assad.

Here your red herring was the 2017 Venezuelan constitutional crisis :

2017 constitutional crisis
See also: 2017 Venezuelan constitutional crisis

On 29 March 2017, the Supreme Court (TSJ) stripped the Assembly of its powers, ..... bla bla bla

Nobody came up with this. Just you, as a red herring.

And of course you did not mention that prior to this, Maduro lost the elections for the National Assembly. So his party no longer ruled the legislative body of Venezuela. And Juan Guaidó was elected the majority leader :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Assembly_(Venezuela)

If that happens in the US, you just sit it out until the next election.

But Maduro did not accept that.
So he instituted by presidential decree an all-powerful Constituent Assembly, which overrules the entire democratically elected legislative branch of government.

https://www.dw.com/en/venezuelas-new-constituent-assembly-declares-itself-all-powerful/a-40017220

Seriously. You can't make this shit up, even if you wanted to.

And this is after he told his friends on the Election Committee to cancel the recall referendum against him, depriving the people of Venezuela a democratic way to boot him out of office (this was in 2015).
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-37724322

Seriously. You can't make this shit up, even if you wanted to.

Or this trick by Maduro to stuff the supreme court with friends (while in lame duck session) so they can nullify the all powers of congress :
https://www.cnn.com/2017/03/30/americas/venezuela-dissolves-national-assembly/index.html
Quote
In a surprising move the Venezuelan opposition is calling a coup, the Venezuelan Supreme Court has stripped the country's National Assembly of its powers.

Seriously. In any other country you can't make this shit up, even if you wanted to.

But in Venezuela under Maduro, it's just business as usual, to consolidate the power of the president/dictator.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Neven on March 04, 2019, 11:48:14 AM
Serious. You can't make this shit up, even if you wanted to.

Other are making this shit up, because they want to (because they want to get rich off resources), and then you spread it around uncritically, always pushing for war, death and destruction.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Neven on March 04, 2019, 02:33:39 PM
Sanders during recent townhall:

Quote
I do find it interesting that Trump is very concerned about what goes on in Venezuela. But what about the last election that took place in Saudi Arabia? Oh, there wasn’t any election in Saudi Arabia. Oh, women are treated as third-class citizens. So I find it interesting that Trump is kind of selective as to where he is concerned about democracy.

You can just as well replace 'Trump' with 'Rob'. Every time the US wants to destabilize a country for ressources, the media gives full support by providing excessive attention, and the likes of Rob are there to uncritically spread every piece of propaganda that is handed to them. Zero nuance, zero self-awareness.

The whole Venezuela hype is about four things: 1) Getting Venezuela's oil by installing a neoliberal government, 2) Preventing the spread of socialist democracies in Latin America, as has been done so many times before in Latin America 3) Russiagate-level distraction from Trump corruption and the roots of what is crippling US society, 4) Preventing social democracy from spreading in the US itself, by coupling the Venezuela 'socialist dictatorship' to progressives, forcing them to fall into the trap of acknowledging talking points. It's used as a stone around the neck of true progressives.

You see, Rob claims he's a Bernie supporter, but his uncritical, unnuanced parroting establishment propaganda is directly undermining progressivism in the US. Never mind that he's helping create the conditions for another Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan, Syria, with his selective and conditioned critique of the dictatorship du jour. You cannot claim to be a Bernie supporter and then act as a warmongering neocon at every turn, perfectly echoing establishment war machine propaganda. You need to put some thought into it, read some history books, some Chomsky, and then choose what it actually is you stand for, instead of floating in this limbo of contradictions, cognitive dissonance and outright hypocrisy.

Speaking of Sanders, here's a very interesting discussion on his remarks on Venezuela during his CNN townhall, where the propaganda wheat is separated from the chaff:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0AAHJbeB4g

Here is everything in a nutshell:

Quote
NORMAN SOLOMON: Well, If you look at what he said about the economy of Venezuela, I think the omission that would have been much better for him to provide would be the effect of U.S. sanctions, which have been damaging and crippling, antihumanitarian, for many years. I think it’s notable as a backdrop that almost two years ago, Bernie Sanders voted against sanctions on North Korea, Iran, and Russia, you know, a package. And it was a courageous vote, because he pointed out that these sanctions in those cases reduced the chance of bringing about peaceful relations, and increased the chance of military conflict.

I think it’s notable in the clip that we just heard that Bernie condemned not only military intervention, but he cited three examples of non-military, subversive, CIA-type undermining of democratically-elected governments. He cited Brazil. He cited Guatemala and Chile. And this is the kind of historical context and understanding that conveyed a very clear point. And we’re not going to get that, we haven’t gotten that, from other candidates for the Democratic presidential nomination.

I don’t think what we need most of all from government leaders in the United States, particularly in the Congress at this point, I don’t think what we need is to say that Maduro is flawless. And frankly, I don’t think he is. I think what we need from those leaders is to say we must not have the United States intervene militarily, or any other way. If you look at the actual phrasing of what Bernie has been saying, he says that he supports humanitarian aid going into Venezuela. He doesn’t say U.S. humanitarian aid. And as Jacqueline pointed out, there has been humanitarian aid flowing in from various other countries.

So you know, frankly, I think that when you take as a whole what Bernie is saying, it is conveying to the mass media against ferocious propaganda that we need nonintervention in Venezuela. And one more point. Bernie has been savagely trashed by many corporate Democrats in the last week for refusing to call Maduro a dictator, for refusing to go along with what I think really are the main mass media-type talking points in this country.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 04, 2019, 06:49:13 PM
That's because the Venezuelan hyperinflation is caused ONLY by Maduro simply printing money to pay his bills.
Facts never seem to bother you . you just walk on by :)
Quote
After he killed the country's oil production, and got Venezuela deep in debt with the Russians and the Chinese, Maduro had no income left over.

fantasy fictions .. you're really grabbing at straws here. what's being in debt to someone got to do with no income left?

When up above you were making all these assertions their production was still high and exports to the USA had not fallen as per IEA data . Bait and switch is it?
 
Quote
stole everything there is to steal ....

And your evidence for this latest claims is ............ ??

You're never interested in a genuine exchange of info or discussing anything., It's always point blank "this is IT" and "why doesn't anyone agree with you" all the time.

How about there really complex info around and no one really knows wtf the story is or the truth is or the real data is exactly?
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 04, 2019, 06:57:49 PM
You are one different kind of cookie, Lurk.

Yeah I tend to rely on multiple sources - I am open to all voices and information - and not just focus on the latest thought bubble in my own head. That and I have a good memory and so I don't get lost very often.

But the biggest difference? I do not rush to judgement. Not knowing exactly what is going on or being able to definitely conclude what all the causes are and WHO MUST BE TO BLAME FOR EVERYTHING GOING WRONG is I think the biggie - because it doesn't bother me that some things are not known for certain one way or another. 

I am not a Chicken Little nor a drama queen! Sure I can get impassioned and emotional but that is not the same thing. I even reposted "that I do not care what happens there" anyway. Doesn't any of this ever sink in?

 
Quote
Unbelievable, how you spend so much time, words and red herrings defending your favorite dictators.


[edit] When you make aspersions like that against other people it just makes you look like a big mouthed jackass blow hard Rob.

In fact you sound much like GW Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Bolton and Trump! You continue to treat me here like the lying Republican MIC Right Wing media hacks and Talk Back Radio thugs treated Valerie Plame and Joseph Wilson. [end edit]

All this because I quoted actual referenced true facts from Wikipedia? All this because your prior opinion was actually wrong on the face of it?

jeez man, why don't you blame me for Venezuela's Constitution too? You may as well for it would be as ludicrous.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: b_lumenkraft on March 04, 2019, 07:20:05 PM
Hey Lurk,

just wanted to let you know i totally agree with what you said there.

You shall fell understood. I appreciate your stands and writings on the topic.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 05, 2019, 03:24:57 AM
Thanks L. At least 2 people understand what I am saying and why. You and me. :)

But I am very unpopular on this forum as the resident "black sheep" so you might not want to too closely align with me if you wish to remain respected by others, spoken to nicely, and not targetted for any 'mobbing'.

You might even want to delete that comment and only say such things privately to avoid any backlash. :(
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 05, 2019, 03:27:09 AM
Thanks L. At least 2 people understand what I am saying and why. You and me. :)

But I am very unpopular on this forum as the resident "black sheep" so you might not want to too closely align with me if you wish to remain respected by others, spoken to nicely, and not targetted for any 'mobbing'.

You might even want to delete that comment and only say such things privately to avoid any backlash. :(
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: b_lumenkraft on March 05, 2019, 06:54:27 AM
I don't want respect. I'm not here for sympathy. I'm here to learn. I'm interested in the truth and good arguments.

So, no! I will not delete that, i'm good. :)
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on March 05, 2019, 06:58:31 AM
Venezuela is bankrupt, and Maduro is already selling the last assets (the gold from the Venezuelan Central Bank), yet some still believe in him, and prefer to attack the messenger (me in this thread) instead.

I see that I won't be making any friends here by explaining the facts about how bad it is, but here you go :

That's because the Venezuelan hyperinflation is caused ONLY by Maduro simply printing money to pay his bills.
Facts never seem to bother you . you just walk on by :)

It's actually economics 101 :
If you double the amount of money in circulation (by printing money) without changing the assets the money is based upon, then the value of that money is cut in half (100% inflation).

Maduro has been printing money like there is no tomorrow (literally) and as a result inflation rate is now exceeding 1,000,000 percent per year.

This is how that looks like :

(https://amp.businessinsider.com/images/5be41393b73c2866eb20767a-750-375.jpg)

That's what you get if your government prints money to pay its bills.
 
If there are any other "facts" that you believe explain a 1,000,000 percent inflation rate, I'm interested in your argument.

Go ahead. Take your time.

Quote
Quote
After he killed the country's oil production, and got Venezuela deep in debt with the Russians and the Chinese, Maduro had no income left over.

fantasy fictions .. you're really grabbing at straws here. what's being in debt to someone got to do with no income left?

I assert that (oil) income is now lower than Venezuela's debt obligations.
Which means the country has NEGATIVE net income.
Which means that Maduro needs to sell assets just stay afloat.

He is currently stealing from the domestic economy by printing money, and selling gold from the Central Bank, but neither one will last long.

Beyond that, the only assets left over that he can sell to his debtors (mostly Russia and China) are the state companies.

Quote
When up above you were making all these assertions their production was still high and exports to the USA had not fallen as per IEA data . Bait and switch is it?

You may have missed that graph I posted like ... three times :

(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/9F32/production/_105345704_oil-nc.png)

So No. Under Maduro, production was cut more than in HALF compared to the Hugo Chavez times.
That (cut in half) is reflected in the US purchases of Venezuela oil too, per the EIA.

So the US did not treat Venezuela differently over time, contrary to some claims made here on this thread that the US caused the Venezuelan crisis.

Is that clearer ?

Quote

Quote
stole everything there is to steal ....

And your evidence for this latest claims is ............ ??

If you print money in the amounts Maduro does, you cause hyperinflation, which is essentially stealing from everyone who trades in your currency (which are the Venezuelan people).
 
Even worse, you are stealing the savings from the little guys (who did not convert their savings to dollars), and you are giving to the rich guys, who see their tax burden eliminated.

At least Chavez policies benefitted the poor.
Maduro's policies on the other hand benefits the rich and his friends in the military.

Here is a good overview of facts by VOX, which Neven will probably also call "establishment propaganda" :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1gUR8wM5vA
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Neven on March 05, 2019, 09:04:46 AM
We can discuss what exactly has caused Venezuela's economic downturn, but it is all besides the point. The point actually is that we're discussing it at all, and that's because there's an excessive attention for this subject because it serves the interests of the diseased system we live in. There are dozens of similar examples in the world, but we never give those any thought. So, apparently, it's the mass media that determines what we care about (looking at you, Rob).

Just yesterday I walked around on Jakominiplatz in Graz, which is where the bus station is. There's this huge screen in the middle with ads and the latest news, gossip, no sound, just text. I briefly looked up at it and what did I see? Bloody Guaido's face, with accompanying texts about whether he would be arrested or not. Anyone who has read Manufacturing Consent or watched the documentary, understands what is happening here.

And for the US it's the following:

1) Getting Venezuela's oil by installing a neoliberal government, 2) Preventing the spread of socialist democracies in Latin America, as has been done so many times before in Latin America, 3) Russiagate-level distraction from Trump corruption and the roots of what is crippling US society, 4) Preventing social democracy from spreading in the US itself, by coupling the Venezuela's 'socialist dictatorship, which always fails' to progressives, forcing them to fall into the trap of acknowledging talking points. It's used as a stone around the neck of true progressives.

Anyone who calls himself a liberal or progressive or lefty in general should fight this tooth and nail, or at the very least ignore all the oligarchic talking points. Anyone who doesn't and wants to endlessly discuss whether 'Maduro is a commie dictator who steals from his own people', simply has neocon leanings and doesn't understand a thing about war, only ever having known peace and wealth. Looking at you again, Rob.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: sidd on March 05, 2019, 09:27:23 AM
Re: evil dictators

Since the title has "Empire" in the name, i seem to recall that Empires act this way. They make dictators they like forawhile, then unmake them. Or first they deem someone a dictator and unmake them and appoint their temporary stooge. Hell, in the old days the CIA woulda sprung Lopez outta chokey, bribed enuf generals, had Maduro hanging from a lamppost within a single news cycle. Come to think of it, they tried that with Chavez, but it kinda didnt work.

But i must say, Guaido is quite a joke, even compared to the standard of Empire stooge. That's why i thought Lopez, he has more credibility as stooge.

sidd
 
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 05, 2019, 09:45:29 AM
I don't want respect. I'm not here for sympathy. I'm here to learn. I'm interested in the truth and good arguments.

So, no! I will not delete that, i'm good. :)

Way to go! :)
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 05, 2019, 09:50:36 AM
I'll take this one part at a time.

Venezuela is bankrupt

Says who? You?

The value of a banknote and inflation is irrelevant to the defined concept of National Bankruptcy. 

If Venezuela is Bankrupt that should be easy to prove using credible sources.

'Go ahead. Take your time.' :)
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 05, 2019, 09:53:40 AM

This is how that looks like :
(https://amp.businessinsider.com/images/5be41393b73c2866eb20767a-750-375.jpg)

That's what Social media Tropes and Memes look like. How about some credible evidence instead?

Quote

If there are any other "facts" that you believe explain a 1,000,000 percent inflation rate, I'm interested in your argument.

Prove that using OBJECTIVE credible UNBIASED sources. Newsprint not good enough.

Go Ahead, take your time. :)
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 05, 2019, 09:59:12 AM

It's actually economics 101 :
If you double the amount of money in circulation (by printing money) without changing the assets the money is based upon, then the value of that money is cut in half (100% inflation).


Yes that's true. The value of the "paper money" does change due to inflation as well as Governments like the USA has been doing since 2008 with the FED 'printing money' - in kind.

But here is some real  Economics:101 for you Rob - the Value of the Assets that underpin that monetary values does NOT change. The Gold is still worth what it was the day before - if they could get it out of the Bank of London.

The Oil Reserves are not worth one USD less than they were the day before. This is economics:101 Rob.

It's quite different to RobEconomics:101 :)
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on March 05, 2019, 10:04:26 AM
We can discuss what exactly has caused Venezuela's economic downturn, but it is all besides the point. The point actually is that we're discussing it at all, and that's because there's an excessive attention for this subject because it serves the interests of the diseased system we live in. There are dozens of similar examples in the world, ...

Sorry to interrupt, Neven, but seriously :

Name ONE other country that has or had in excess of 1,000,000 percent inflation rate.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 05, 2019, 10:05:59 AM
So the US did not treat Venezuela differently over time, contrary to some claims made here on this thread that the US caused the Venezuelan crisis.

Is that clearer ?

Yes you have not read what I have said correctly and you have not seen all the refs provided in the last 3 pages. You're still pushing the same beliefs you had originally - and information and data has made no difference to those beliefs. You are really arguing about arguing.

What I actually think and what I have actually said myself (and mean by that) is totally irrelevant and alien to what you say and think here.  Any common ground has collapsed under our feet. As a result there is nothing left now to build a real dialogue upon. It is what it is.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Neven on March 05, 2019, 11:29:06 PM
Quote
Whenever the regime change war criminals want to launch an invasion, they first have to launch a narrative. They first have to get you to agree to the pretext of why they have to go in. And the pretext is always 'X is a bad guy, he gasses his own people'. That's what they said about Saddam Hussein, that's what they said about Moammar Ghaddafi, that's what they said about Assad, and that's what they're saying about Maduro. And so when you repeat 'I think Maduro is a bad guy, but I don't think we should go in', what you're doing, is you're actually affirming the CIA's bullshit pretext for a coup and an invasion and a regime change war. You're actually doing more damage than you're doing good.

You're actually supporting the Koch brothers to get their dirty claws on Venezuela's heavy oil. I'm still looking at you, Rob, and whoever is simply incapable or unwilling to look through Trump's cowardly attempt at getting a better deal.

Jimmy Dore has legendary journalist Greg Palast on, and they hit it out of the ball park (yet again):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeNCbXVHrR8&
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 06, 2019, 04:07:17 AM
Next up

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnlEVf7oaVQ
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 06, 2019, 04:14:36 AM
US threatens ‘secondary sanctions’ against those nations who refuse to back its Venezuela coup
Published time: 6 Mar, 2019
“Secondary sanctions, it’s clearly a possibility,” Abrams said at a press conference, warning that a decision to sanction third party countries “would depend on the conduct of the [Venezuelan] regime over time.”

So far some 54 countries [ of 200 countris ] have bowed to US pressure and recognized the self-proclaimed ‘interim president’ Juan Guaido, who since January has been rallying support for regime change. Whilst the US claims the “momentum is good” to get more countries on board, the majority of the world’s countries and population rejected Washington’s “imperialist” ambitions, Colin Cavell, associate professor of political science at Bluefield State College, told RT.

The US administration is “internationalizing the Venezuelan conflict on a very dangerous basis... threatening other countries who deal with Venezuela, saying that if you do not support our sanctions, we are going to impose sanctions on you,” Cavell explained.

https://www.rt.com/news/453114-us-threatens-secondary-sanctions-venezuela/
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on March 06, 2019, 08:28:36 AM
<snip, you can continue to repeat war machine propaganda all you want, it remains irrelevant. Only two things are relevant: This is all about Trump's swamp cronies getting their filthy hands on the dirty oil, and it's about smearing 'socialism' both at home and abroad. So, I'm not letting you spread that poison here. N.>

Two remarks on that :

1) Under Maduro there is no socialism. I already explained above that his domestic financial policy (of printing money) steals from the average Venezuelan and benefits the rich.
That's the OPPOSITE of socialism.

2) I did not post any "war machine propaganda". I just posted some facts about the crisis in Venezuela.

Neven, you censoring any dissent from your own pro-Maduro opinion is getting out of hand.
It's not you, it's not healthy and its not normal.

So please let my post stand.

Here it is again :

---

There are at least three FACTS about Venezuela that neither of you guys here seem to get :

1) Venezuela is bankrupt.

It's foreign currency bonds trade at "RD" (Restricted Default) which is just one tick above Bankruptcy.
http://cbonds.com/countries/Venezuela-bond
These bonds were trading 20 cts on the dollar as of Dec 2018, which means that investors don't expect to get more than 20 cts back for every dollar invested.

In fact, Bankruptcy status would be better, because then there would be some sort of debt restructuring plan. That's why these bonds showed an up-tick in January when the US announced sanctions against Venezuela's oil industry. Here for example is are some bonds that mature in 2020 :
https://www.bourse.lu/security/USP97475AG56/94852

At 30 cts to the dollar, Venezuela is still trading below "junk" rating, but hey, if you think there is nothing wrong with the Venezuelan economy, by all means, BUY these bonds. Next year when they mature, and Maduro pays the full dollar amount back to you, you will make a killing !

For the rest of us, who see the writing on the wall, we pay attention to stuff like this :
https://nypost.com/2019/02/01/venezuelas-maduro-to-sell-gold-reserves-to-prop-up-regime/

Maduro is so desperate for cash that it is starting to sell the gold from the central bank.

That's a sure sign your country is done for, financially.

2) People are starving.

None of you guys seem to understand the human suffering.

You let Jimmy Dore say that life is Venezuela is "normal" and Max Blumenthal shops on a dollar store in Caracas, so all must be nice and dandy.

Yet three million Venezuelans left the country already, and if nothing changes, the UN expects another 2 million refugees out of Venezuela this year.

That would rival the refugee crisis from Syria, folks.

And the country who took in the bulk of Venezuelan refugees ? Colombia.
While Trump wants to build a wall, Colombia kept its borders open.

And Colombians are doing everything they can to help their fellow Venezuelans.

This report gave me hope :

https://youtu.be/NU0RqwweuWY

3) Maduro is done for.

He led the country into a financial crisis, an economic crisis, a humanitarian crisis, and a political crisis.

Just think about it : If you drove the economy of your country into the ground like Maduro just did, and millions of your citizens are leaving your country because they are starving, and you have violated the constitution of your predecessor (Hugo Chavez) at least THREE times, and rigged the elections multiple times, while polls show that 80% of the people of your country want you OUT, then wouldn't you realize that maybe, just maybe, it's time for somebody else to take over ?

Any other leader would voluntarily resign and call for new elections.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on March 06, 2019, 08:50:29 AM
You're actually supporting the Koch brothers to get their dirty claws on Venezuela's heavy oil. I'm still looking at you, Rob, and whoever is simply incapable or unwilling to look through Trump's cowardly attempt at getting a better deal.

Don't be so dramatic, Neven. The oil will still be owned by Venezuela.

It will take massive debt-restructuring and re-financing by the IMF, but we can get Venezuela back on her feet.
 
Now that they know that the Chavez/Maduro way doesn't work, I suggest they model their country after Norway.

And then find a way to phase out their dependence on oil.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Neven on March 06, 2019, 12:59:38 PM
What a great idea, Rob! Hurrah for neoliberalism!

PS When you say 'we', does that mean you, Bolton, Trump, Pompeo and Abrams? Or are other good people who blindly follow war criminals included as well?
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 07, 2019, 02:31:04 AM
Sophistry by a pathological narcissist and an ignorant stupid pig?

    In order to undermine the constitutional basis for @jguaido interim Presidency, #Putin’s #Russia repeatedly describes him as the “self proclaimed” President of #Venezuela.
    And so does @CNN #RussianCollusion ?
    — Marco Rubio (@marcorubio) March 5, 2019


    @WashingtonPost do you refer to Speaker Pelosi as the “opposition leader”?
    Then why do you use that term for @jguaido the President of the democratically elected National Assembly of #Venezuela? ⁦
    I thought #democracydiesindarkness https://t.co/z7uh8Qo5at
    — Marco Rubio (@marcorubio) March 5, 2019


    .@WSJ More nations recognize ⁦@jguaido⁩ than #Maduro as legitimate President of #Venezuela
    And he’s President of the democratically elected National Assembly.
    Why then do you describe him as the “opposition leader”? https://t.co/dBx8p8QVqf
    — Marco Rubio (@marcorubio) March 5, 2019

Maybe because he IS the self-appointed leader / spokesperson of the Opposition 'Parties' - there's a thought.

Because that is the semantics they use in Venezuela - he not a member of the current President's Party - he is in Opposition. Same goes in Australia, the UK and gosh dozens of other countries. If Rubio wasn't just another really dumb but lying manipulative American politician he'd already know that. LOL

The American people have no chance of surviving until asshats like Rubio are no longer voted into Office. Don't hold your breath.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on March 07, 2019, 07:25:38 AM
One of the few Western journalists still reporting from within Venezuela will be deported :

An American freelance journalist with legal residence in Venezuela was arrested on Wednesday along with his Venezuelan assistant by the country’s military counterintelligence service, the latest episode in an expanding crackdown on press freedom amid the country’s long-running political crisis.

The authorities held the reporter, Cody Weddle, 28, for several hours at the headquarters of the Directorate General of Military Counterintelligence after searching his apartment, Mr. Weddle said in a voice message late Wednesday. He was then told he was going to be deported and was taken to the airport by armed men, he said.

(https://static01.nyt.com/images/2019/03/06/world/06xp-journalist/06xp-journalist-articleLarge.jpg?quality=90&auto=webp)

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/06/world/americas/cody-weddle-journalist-venezuela.html
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on March 07, 2019, 09:01:20 AM
One of the few Western journalists still reporting from within Venezuela will be deported :

An American freelance journalist with legal residence in Venezuela was arrested on Wednesday along with his Venezuelan assistant by the country’s military counterintelligence service, the latest episode in an expanding crackdown on press freedom amid the country’s long-running political crisis.

The authorities held the reporter, Cody Weddle, 28, for several hours at the headquarters of the Directorate General of Military Counterintelligence after searching his apartment, Mr. Weddle said in a voice message late Wednesday. He was then told he was going to be deported and was taken to the airport by armed men, he said.

(https://static01.nyt.com/images/2019/03/06/world/06xp-journalist/06xp-journalist-articleLarge.jpg?quality=90&auto=webp)

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/06/world/americas/cody-weddle-journalist-venezuela.html
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on March 07, 2019, 09:06:18 AM
What a great idea, Rob! Hurrah for neoliberalism!

Sure, Neven.

If not the IMF, who else do you suggest is going to pay for the $50 billion in debt that Venezuela is currently defaulting on ?

You ?
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on March 07, 2019, 09:18:17 AM
What a great idea, Rob! Hurrah for neoliberalism!

Sure, Neven.

If not the "neoliberal" IMF, who else do you suggest is going to pay for the $50 billion in debt that Venezuela is currently defaulting on ?

You ?
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 07, 2019, 03:45:26 PM
US taxpayers and the citizens in general are the one's who keep on paying, and paying and paying.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 08, 2019, 02:09:07 AM
What a great idea, Rob! Hurrah for neoliberalism!

Sure, Neven.

If not the "neoliberal" IMF, who else do you suggest is going to pay for the $50 billion in debt that Venezuela is currently defaulting on ?

You ?

Concern Troll

Americans also end up paying for such lies and manipulations with life and limb.

Venezuela Debt $50 Bln = $1,613 per person

USA Debt $22,000 Bln = $66,666 per person

USA Interest Payments per year @ 3% = $660 Billion per year every year

Total Venezuelan Debt $50 Bln (according to Rob) Interest = $1.5 Billion per year = Chicken Feed

"you support a dictator who gases his own people"

"you support an dictator who is stealing from his own people"

"you support  a Government that is Bankrupt"

"you support a dictator whose people are starving and won''t allow humanitarian aid to come in"

... and on and on goes the Concern Troll. It's what they do.  It's all they got.

Maybe a course in Debating or Economics or Political Science or Psychology or History might help?

I seriously doubt that. :)
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 08, 2019, 03:32:38 AM
People in glass houses should not be throwing stones at others.

Let's take California as an example of "free and fair" elections and the way that "Democracy" does not work in the USA.

2018 Mid-term Elections and the Feinstein's Senate seat was up for Voting by the people.

The Voters were given only two choices - A Democrat named Diane Feinstien or a Democrat no one remembers their name.

There was no GOP Republican option for Conservative Voters to Vote for. 
There was no Greens candidate for Greens pro-Climate pro-Social Justice Voters to Vote for.
There was no Libertarian for pro-individual liberty, pro-personal Rights, small Govt Voters to Vote for.
There was no genuine Independent Candidate to Vote for.

The "Democratic Choice" in California was to Vote for Diane Feinstien or a nobody!

This is Institutional gerrymandering across California State. It's a Fraud.

This is active Systemic Voter Suppression to lower the Voter Turnout.

This is not what a genuine Democracy looks like. It's a fraudulent undemocratic electoral system.

It's a Con and no one, in particular people such as Rob and Martin, who remain silent about these multiple election Frauds and the abuse of Human Rights across the USA have a leg to stand on.

People in glass houses who know next to nothing about Venezuela's Constitution and Democratic Electoral System and Media and Economic realities and then criticise it are fundamentalist hypocrites. 

Now if Greg Palast was the only journalist in the world saying the things he was saying that he has seen with his own eyes and reported on for almost 2 decades now then that would be grounds to dismiss his "opinions and reports" and not automatically believe what he says. But he is not alone - his reports are consistent with other reports from the field on the ground and people who are highly educated in History and the like. Such as Academics and some Journalists.

Unfortunately for the people who believe that California and Georgia are a functioning enlightened Democracies  Greg Palast is reporting the truth of it - whereas the MSM and Political hacks and Liars (along with misguided twisted forum / social media comments) are not.

Quote
18:03 .... the problem is that Democrats have their hands dirty with voter suppression I hate that word that's why I can't get on national petroleum radio (NPR) because I because I won't I won't use a term vote suppression like Ari Berman would you know he's you know everything's like soft yeah and he says vote suppression and I said "When your cars stolen do you say your car has been suppressed?"

https://youtu.be/gs-FiLFFDnk?t=1075

Quote
01:08 I was down in Georgia right right and I uncovered I uncovered a mass  - I sued the Secretary of State who's running for governor running his own election Brian Kemp and I sued him for his for the names of all people were purged from the voter rolls.

I then hired four firms from Silicon Valley wasn't cheap - it wasn't easy this is not lazy fuckism investigation - this is investigative okay and I hired four firms to go through name by name and go through records and determined that 340,000,134 Georgians were illegally removed from the voter rolls.
https://youtu.be/gs-FiLFFDnk?t=52

Quote
01:44 That's what elected the schmuck Brian Kemp okay after Kemp was elected through this steal the New York Times calls me up and says can you send us all your files? Hahaha and I said well unlike your stories all my files aren't only five pages, a document that I can send you. It's five file cabinets of research that's been built up. I was investigating Georgia for five years my friends!
 https://youtu.be/gs-FiLFFDnk?t=103

This comment of mine is not a matter of "whataboutery" but about critical issues addressing extreme bias, self-delusions, denial, ethics, principles, holistic perspectives, awareness, and true knowledge.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gs-FiLFFDnk

There is more than enough abuses of Democracy and the Media inside the borders of the USA to keep the citizens there busy trying to FIX IT for at least a century.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 08, 2019, 03:48:47 AM
Pasty white establishment rich guy in Georgia Brian Porter Kemp (born November 2, 1963) is an American businessman and politician who is the 83rd and incumbent governor of the U.S. state of Georgia, in office since 2019.[1] A member of the Republican Party, he previously was the Secretary of State of Georgia and a member of the Georgia State Senate.

In 2015, Kemp's Secretary of State office distributed the Social Security numbers and dates of birth of over 6.2 million Georgia voters.

In 2018, Kemp was a candidate for governor. After coming in second place in the Republican primary, he defeated Lieutenant Governor Casey Cagle in the Republican runoff with 69% of the vote. In the general election, he faced Democratic nominee Stacey Abrams.

Kemp notably refused to resign as secretary of state while campaigning for governor, a move that some critics claimed constituted a conflict of interest. Following the general election on November 6, Kemp was declared the winner with 50.2% of the vote
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Kemp

Congress Posted Mar 6, 2019
Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp brushes off House investigation of voter suppression
Voter purges, suspended registration applications, and long Election Day lines led to accusations of voter suppression
https://www.rollcall.com/news/house-democrats-investigating-georgia-gov-brian-kemp-for-voter-suppression

Like how on the ball is JIMMY DORE and GREG PALAST?

Georgia Governor Brian Kemp Faces Investigation by House Panel
March 6, 2019
The House Oversight and Reform Committee is investigating allegations of voter suppression in Georgia under Secretary of State Brian Kemp, who has since become governor.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/06/us/politics/governor-brian-kemp-voter-suppression.html


No, no , no , no , no , look over there .. see Venezuela -- people eating out of garbage bins just like the Sick Poor Disabled Homeless People do in the United States of America .... but they have no sanctions, no embargoes, no $Blns being held by enemies overseas, no financial restrictions on them but they do have a a LYING IDIOT as President ... all duly elected by the Greatest Bestest  Democracy on Planet Earth --- or so they say and demand that you believe it.

Pooh Phooey Phuckism Writ large :)
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 08, 2019, 04:13:27 AM
Continuing on because this really matters regarding the never-ending deceptions which extends to places like Venezuela and the level of denial going on in the people who believe the MSM BS, HRC, the Democratic Party "spin-zone" as well as Donald Trump Bolton Rubio et al

Quote
19:55 I actually got the numbers from the office of the CA Secretary of State Alex Padilla former Hispanic who was one of the campaign managers for Hillary Clinton while she's running against Bernie Sanders and he's counting the PRIMARY Votes or NOT counting, what they did was not there were almost 1 million about 900,000 votes which are disqualified - I've never seen that much I didn't see that in Alabama. [...]

20:43 They knew and this was deliberate of course this chaos was deliberate and they got disqualified on technical means we know that 3 out of 4 n PP voters as they call these independent voters we're gonna had voted for Sanders so Sanders victory in California primary was in this dumpster of 900,000 votes.

21:31 Why am I off on these elections is because if they do it in California, you think they give a fuck about who right we're really doing who people really want in Venezuela? Or hey okay if they're stealing your vote in Hollywood - they're gonna fucking steal your vote in Venezuela and and they know that - the dark-skinned Venezuelans know that!

And I'm sorry if you don't like that term but that's the Negro-Indio of Venezuela - they don't want this white guy picked by Trump!

They (Trump, Koch Bros, Pelosi, Rubio, and Rob et al,) don't give a fuck and the media doesn't give a fuck because they've made the decision about who that president should be ......

https://youtu.be/gs-FiLFFDnk?t=1185
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on March 08, 2019, 05:18:04 AM
German ambassador to Venezuela declared persona non grata

German Ambassador Daniel Kriener has been told to leave Venezuela within 48 hours. He has been accused by the Maduro government of meddling in Venezuela's internal affairs.

More than 50 countries, including Germany, have recognized Guaido as the legitimate leader of Venezuela. The 35-year-old politician has pledged to set up a transitional government and hold new elections to unseat Maduro, who is backed by China, Russia and Turkey.

https://www.dw.com/en/german-ambassador-to-venezuela-declared-persona-non-grata/a-47798421

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2uxdLzOvso
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 08, 2019, 05:29:28 AM
Jimmy, Palast and Lurk are talking to you Rob, and to Martin and to .......

Palast, then Jimmy cuts to the chase and tells it like it really is - again
https://youtu.be/gs-FiLFFDnk?t=1360

Lurk copies and pastes the truth of it - Quote: 

22:50 The only people more unpopular than Maduro in Venezuela is his opposition right! Quaido he's like Maduro both are not popular. Maduro is like an unpopular president - this often happens I mean you know I mean he's like Obama - in 2010 was incredibly unpopular in the United States Uou're right but nobody wanted overthrow Obama - why don't we invite the GOP candidate to overthrow Obama because his popularity dropped to 35%?

But yeah like you say Maduro is not popular but he's more popular than his opposition, than the fascists, and the oil company Stooges that are being imposed on the nation!

That's a story that's not being told and again and then you have to look at phonies like let me go north, Justin Trudeaux who come you know, the American press loved him because he talks all about how unlike Trump he's worried about global warming.

He's the number-one salesman of Tar Sands Shit via the Keystone Pipeline which is burning up the planet and the reason he wants the Venezuelan government overthrown, the reason why he's in love with the Embargo against Venezuela he's a big proponent of the embargo against Venezuela because he has got the the Heavy Oil that that is competing directly with the Venezuelan Oil to feed the Koch Texas Refineries!

and you know that is true, and you know it's like this - Hello!!!

[ Jimmy now goes goes for the throats of all the bullshit artists (talking to you Rob) ]

You don't have to be a great investigative reporter or a bad one - all you ever do is look down the street that's exactly right. All you have to do is look at what's happening!


We got Donald Trump wanting to invade a country that's got more oil reserves in Saudi Arabia do you really need more information than that? But apparently people like Rachel Maddow and people like Jake Tapper and people like Wolf Blitzer (and people like Rob and Martin et al) every asswipe at the New York Times and Washington Post they all need more information somehow

[ --- like OMG what about that $50 Billion of Debt Venezuela has - it's because he's a Dictator, arrested some journalists and media execs, deported a US Journo yesterday, plus he has stolen all the money from the Venezuelan people, it's because they are a Socialist Democracy supported by the EVIL Cuban people and it's Government and Military, supported by China, Russia, and India, Turkey, and a clear majority of all other nations ~150 of them all up - most fo them NOT WHITE but Dark Brown and Yellow!!! OMG the sky is falling !!! --- ]

24:53 This is what makes me angry - is that if I know it, I know they know it, and they're just bullshit horrible liars and propagandists! Read Manufacturing Consent that's why those people - you ever see the movie Broadcast News w William Hurt? that's who they are!

They're chosen, they're Johnny Bravo, they fit the suit baby. It's not because they're journalists "I'm gonna tell you the truth or even inform you, did I give a fuck if you're informed?

Rachel Maddow's got the number one show on cable news and she's been misinforming people added up at a nuclear level for the last two and a half years. It's not about informing you. It's not it's about making money.

And right now you make more money for your overlords if you go along with a foreign invasion and that just shows you that they have zero integrity. I, a guy who in his garage, a jagoff nightclub comedian, C student can do journalism ten times better than them and why?

Because I'm not bought and I can tell you the truth just like Greg says all I have to do is look down the street Hey look there's a half a million people and demonstrating in favor of Maduro. All I have to do is do that. All I ever do is look at Max Blumenthal's video from inside a supermarket in Caracas inside Venezuela to know they're all full of shit.

All I have to look is at Abby Martin's video to see a million people in the street for Maduro. That's all you have to do. They can do that just like me then. Pretending they don't know any better is bullshit!

[ Yes he's talking to you Rob! And to you too Martin, and to ....... ]

And so and it's funny how they want to throw conspiracy theory around to silence people who are telling the truth - you support Maduro the Dictator who is stealing all the money, smears Rob - the truth that the corporate media won't tell.

And 99% of the lefty media too fucking worthless on this topic as they are worthless on Russia Gate. They're just as shitty as the Corporate News. It's like they all want to be corporate news but guess who doesn't want to be corporate news? ME!

Because I made my bones in comedy. All the people I want to impress in my fucking life I already did. They're in comedy okay? These people in journalism I have no respect for, fucking zero!

I don't want to impress David Korn or Rachel Maddow or some asshole at the fucking Washington
Post. I'm gonna expose them for being the piece of shit propagandists they fucking are. Suck when it comes to Israel Syria Venezuela Russia Gate - it's fucking easy for a dumb motherfucker like me who smokes pot when he wakes up to do a ten-times better job than they're doing.

It's fucking easy and I want to say thank you for sucking so hard - my show's about to cross 500,000 subscribers!
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 08, 2019, 05:44:45 AM
A note about how dumb and gullible PM Justin Trudeau and the Canadian Business operators are:

So Justin is backing the long term Sanctions, Embargoes and the latest Coup in Venezuela. Great this means Venezeuala cannot keep up it's production of Oil nor ship it to the USA like ti has for over 2 decades now. They ship it to ONE Refinery, the one owned owned by the KOCH Bros in Texas. It's only a few hundred miles from Venezuela.

PM Dufus Justin rubs his hands expecting his Tar Sands Oil exports to grow enormously via the Keystone XL Pipeline that delivers Canadian Heavy Oil to that very same Oil refinery - the only one of it;s type in the USA.

But no Justin doesn't stop there, he keeps up the pressure of his own Government, a leftie backs in the Neocons in the Trump Administration for Regime Change to topple the Legitimate Govt. of Venezuela even if it means a civil war or an invasion. 

But there's a serious gap in his logic and common sense. Because once Trump wins, and Maduro is toppled, and Guaido actually becomes the new president in a USA Canadian backed Coup, then Guaido then re-privatises the entire Oil Industry, opens up the doors for US Oil Giants including ig the Koch Brothers to come into Venezuela, fix the production problems and very soon after the Koch Texas Refinery is receiving Venezuelan Oil at a fraction of the price they were paying for the Canadian Tar Sands oil ... more than that Venezuelan Oil is cheaper to refine that Canadian Oil ... and so all of a sudden Canadian Oil exports PLUMMET

........ and / or the Trump Administration circa 2020-2024 decides the Keystone XL Pipeline was not a great deal for the Native American Indians and the transit States and so he KILLS THE PIPELINE on "environmental grounds" and shuts the whole thing down completely.

Then Justin will look like the SCHMUCK that he really is. Just another Neo-liberal IDIOT Politician being suckered by the US Empire of liars, thieves and cheats.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 08, 2019, 06:19:47 AM
And what does all this have to do with the ASIF or communicating the importance of Climate Science and pro-Climate Change actions in the world today?

The answer is everything!

Rob's signature states: "This is our planet. This is our time. Let's not waste either."
He says he totally supports the left leaning agendas of Bernie Sanders, his Policies and the Green New Deal presented by the Justice Democrats and AOC et al. Yet his own actions and his words proves what he really thinks. It proves how much of his time he is prepared to waste by supporting those who are diametrically opposed to such agendas.

He is not alone, and I am not picking on him - he's only the best example of that on this thread.

While the Trump Administration pushes Regime Change yet again, while Trump pushes the conspiratorial  myths about "Socialism" using AOC and Maduro and Cuba as his best examples of the imminent dangers of it, people like Rob jump onboard the Neocon Neoliberal Train founded and funded by the likes of Fossil Fuel advocates such as the Koch brothers and Adelson - also connected to the Pro-Irael Pro-Saudi Lobby presstitutes and Corporate world.

As a result social media and the MSM is chock full with headlines about Venezuela instead of the climate crisis. The UK, Canada, Norway, the EU, the European parliament, Australia,  New Zealand and all the rest of the nations who are supporting the Mike Pence appointed / anointed Guaido are not spending their time focusing on the latest news from Climate science, about the ASI, Land use, warming oceans, fish loss, record breaking growth in CO2 emissions and new records in atmospheric levels at the MLO this last month.

These Climate Change issues are not taking up any space in the front pages while Venezuela and RussiaGate, Robert Mueller, and Hezbollah and Israel, Turkey S400s and Syria, and of course Israel's latest threats to send it's tinpot Navy to sink Iranian Oil tankers -- all these things consume thousands of column inches on those front page day after day after day.

The public awareness and the focus of the planet are being endlessly distracted with lies and bullshit and deceit while the planet burns.

And the USA is still not an inch closer to rejoining the UNFCCC or the Paris Treaty and will not be for years to come.  So let's remind those who may have missed this posting of info to the ASIF about the reality of the United States of America and why it is, in fact, the #1 threat to life on planet earth bar none other.


Politics February 22, 2019
Conservatives Greatly Outnumber Liberals in 19 U.S. States
https://news.gallup.com/poll/247016/conservatives-greatly-outnumber-liberals-states.aspx

What's all this have to do with the ASIF? Everything! It is the elephant in the room.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on March 08, 2019, 08:06:39 AM
It's not just the evil US who is asking for Maduro to step down :

Sweden says it sees Venezuela's Guaido as interim president :

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-politics-sweden/sweden-says-it-sees-venezuelas-guaido-as-interim-president-radio-idUSKCN1PT0SK
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on March 08, 2019, 08:27:42 AM
And even Neven's Austria :

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-politics-austria/austria-to-recognize-guaido-if-venezuelas-maduro-does-not-call-election-idUSKCN1PS0CS
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on March 08, 2019, 10:06:07 AM
Sanders during recent townhall:

Quote
I do find it interesting that Trump is very concerned about what goes on in Venezuela. But what about the last election that took place in Saudi Arabia? Oh, there wasn’t any election in Saudi Arabia. Oh, women are treated as third-class citizens. So I find it interesting that Trump is kind of selective as to where he is concerned about democracy.

You can just as well replace 'Trump' with 'Rob'. Every time the US wants to destabilize a country for ressources, the media gives full support by providing excessive attention, and the likes of Rob are there to uncritically spread every piece of propaganda that is handed to them. Zero nuance, zero self-awareness.

The whole Venezuela hype is about four things: 1) Getting Venezuela's oil by installing a neoliberal government, 2) Preventing the spread of socialist democracies in Latin America, as has been done so many times before in Latin America 3) Russiagate-level distraction from Trump corruption and the roots of what is crippling US society, 4) Preventing social democracy from spreading in the US itself, by coupling the Venezuela 'socialist dictatorship' to progressives, forcing them to fall into the trap of acknowledging talking points. It's used as a stone around the neck of true progressives.

You see, Rob claims he's a Bernie supporter, but his uncritical, unnuanced parroting establishment propaganda is directly undermining progressivism in the US. Never mind that he's helping create the conditions for another Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan, Syria, with his selective and conditioned critique of the dictatorship du jour. You cannot claim to be a Bernie supporter and then act as a warmongering neocon at every turn, perfectly echoing establishment war machine propaganda. You need to put some thought into it, read some history books, some Chomsky, and then choose what it actually is you stand for, instead of floating in this limbo of contradictions, cognitive dissonance and outright hypocrisy.

Speaking of Sanders, here's a very interesting discussion on his remarks on Venezuela during his CNN townhall, where the propaganda wheat is separated from the chaff:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0AAHJbeB4g

Here is everything in a nutshell:
Quote
NORMAN SOLOMON: Well, If you look at what he said about the economy of Venezuela, I ....


OK. You made your point.
Rob is just the same as Trump, and "claims he's a Bernie supporter" but he is "parroting establishment propaganda".

Fine.

Now let's look at that video, and see what Bernie really said.

This is what Bernie really said about Venezuela :

1:27:
Quote
What’s going on in Venezuela is terrible.
The economy is a disaster.
People are living in hunger and in fear.
I strongly believe there has to be an international and humanitarian effort
to improve lives for the people.
I think the evidence is clear that the last election in Venezuela was not a free and fair election,
and under international supervision, I want to see a free and fair election.
I 100% agree with that.
Do you too, Neven ?
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Neven on March 08, 2019, 01:06:01 PM
I 100% agree with that.
Do you too, Neven ?

It's beside the point, and the people in the panel and Jimmy Dore explain what is wrong with it.

Is it still Venezuela you care about today, or has the press already moved on to something else for you to care about?
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Sterks on March 08, 2019, 08:39:28 PM
As I've understood it, US mainstream media is selling the narrative that people in socialist Venezuela are starving because there's no food and therefore Trump/Bolton/Abrams/Pompeo are sending humanitarian aid, whereas they are meddling and pushing for regime change to force Venezuela to join the neoliberal economics party, so they and their oligarch buddies can enrich themselves with Venezuelan oil.

If you are implying that it's all because Maduro can't handle the hyperinflation, and so now some Harvard agent can rightfully proclaim himself king, with the entire world simply ignoring international law and accepting him as such, then you are wrong.
Didn’t want to come back to this thread but curiosity killed the cat... and Wow I must say I am surprised you believe these distorted facts just like that. I thought I had seen everything from the MAGA tribe, but apparently the far left cant escape from their own stultifying set of myths...
Anyway this is an interesting video of a venezuelan living in America and trying to explain reality from confusion in the least possible ideological position.
And I lie you not, I have heard narrative along same lines told to me by Venezuelan refugees in Madrid, people that left their country with not much apart from willing to have a life with dignity. This Already started going south from the times of the other mofo, the insufferable Chaves, now happily sleeping the eternal dream after screwing all he could.
Confy in your cab in Northrn Europe? Enjoy! We are really lucky people.

https://youtu.be/bEvHwiJWgAY
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Neven on March 08, 2019, 09:28:13 PM
Again, it's beside the point. There are dozens of countries similar to Venezuela and worse, but there's an excessive focus on Venezuela for the reasons I have mentioned several times now (oil, halting the spread of socialism both in the US and abroad). Why do we have to partake in this excessive focus which is arbitrary and serves to push narratives that benefit neoconservatism and neoliberalism (in other words, the things that are causing AGW and all kinds of other global misery, just so concentrated wealth can grow even bigger and more concentrated)?

Just by engaging in these discussions about the 'facts', you are helping Trump and the GOP. Just like climate risk deniers, they control the conversation by forcing their talking points on you.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Neven on March 08, 2019, 09:40:58 PM
Thankfully, there are other voices in the US that go beyond the irrelevant narratives:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b41OIyG-tcc
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 09, 2019, 02:06:58 AM
Sanders: I think the evidence is clear that the last election in Venezuela was not a free and fair election, and under international supervision, I want to see a free and fair election.

Which elections is he speaking about - I want to be sure.

The Presidential Election in 2018?

Or the last election for the Constituent Assembly?

Or the Constitutional Assembly Referendum?

Or the last election for the National Assembly where Guaido won his Assembly seat?

Or the last election for the eternally rotating seat of "President" of the National Assembly (the equivalent to being elected as the US House Speaker) ?

PS question:

Why do you keep picking on Neven Rob? As opposed to pointing out all the "errors" of fact and the many "disturbing" opinions found in my comments/posts?

You are coming across like you're on a personal crusade against Neven. Is his "opinion" far more important to you than the poor suffering souls in Venezuela? It sure looks like it. But I could be wrong, which is why I ask openly. :)

When will you have the courage and moral virtue to admit you don't know what you are talking about here? Are spreading false information here and acting as a Neoliberal Corporatists Donald Trump shill and nothing like a Progressive/Liberal pro-climate change action Bernie Sanders supporter - but instead operating as a typical Right Wing Warmongering Conservative GOP Voter?

I ask because that is precisely what you sound like Rob. Where is the Nuanced evidence based long term big-picture analysis? It's literally missing in action! :)
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 09, 2019, 02:13:07 AM
German ambassador to Venezuela declared persona non grata

....who is backed by China, Russia and Turkey.

Plus over 70% of all nations of the world who represent even more the population of the world.

Denying the facts and not reporting on them does not make those facts go away Rob. That's what Propagandists do isn't it?

Maybe DW is just another arm of the Global Neoliberal MIC octopussy? Where the Ambassador is one of it's henchmen playing a role? :)


Democractic Party Rep. Ro Khanna says:
Quote
I was just in Venezuela what
04:49
is crippling the country is the economic
04:52
sanctions the government does not have
04:54
enough money to pay wages take care of
04:58
the needs of the people I suppose that
05:00
is the very effect that the Trump
05:02
administration wants to have


The UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, a Michelle Barcia, the former President of Chile said:
Quote
this situation has been
03:22
exacerbated by [US] sanctions and the
03:24
resulting current political economic
03:27
social institutional crisis is alarming

Why are you supporting the starvation, ill health and deaths of everyday Venezuelans Rob?

See, you are not the only person who can ask really manipulative questions of others to smear them. :)
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 09, 2019, 03:33:19 AM
Anyway this is an interesting video of a venezuelan living in America and trying to explain reality from confusion in the least possible ideological position.

LOL oh boy that really made me cry laughing.

Quote
And I lie you not, I have heard narrative along same lines told to me by Venezuelan refugees in Madrid, people that left their country with not much apart from willing to have a life with dignity.

With their white skin and suit case full of US Dollars and jewellery.  :)

Damn if only I had seen this 5 minute "fact filled" rant by a wealthy well-to-do upper class white American Jewish lady on a couch!

Think of all the time I could have saved looking up historical and present day facts and the opinions of professionals and others from in and out of Venezuela. Man am I an idiot or what?
Quote

As a white Latina with a Jewish last name. [...] I think it's interesting to look at my family history, because my family history is a lot about immigration. On my father's side my grandparents were Holocaust survivors that went to Venezuela. On my mother's side it's Cuban exiles from Fidel Castro's regime. And my parents found each other — first generation Venezuelans. I was second generation Venezuelan and then I had to leave. So it's a lot of moving, and a lot of creating a new home in a new place.

And I feel very very proud to be Venezuelan. Particularly because the Venezuela that I was taught of was the Venezuela of inclusion, the Venezuela that opened its doors to immigrants. The Venezuela where the son of a Jewish family met a Cuban exile and had a child.
https://www.npr.org/2016/03/05/469211567/a-comedian-rants-on-different-latino-cultures

Yes, it is an Ideology free zone there for sure.

Quote
Joanna Hausmann is a Venezuelan-American comedian, writer, and actor who is critical of Nicolás Maduro’s authoritarian regime in Venezuela.
https://oslofreedomforum.com/speakers/joanna-hausmann
Quote
Related Pages Jorge Ramos Journalist (dig deeper if you dare)
https://www.facebook.com/joannahausmanncomedy/
Quote
Another Ideology free zone full of facts
https://www.instagram.com/johaus/?hl=en


Quote
Joanna Hausmann Jatar -- with comments by Jorge Ramos Journalist
‏Verified account @Joannahausmann
Feb 26
My grandma passed away because of lack of medicine. My uncle is imprisoned for posting articles against the government. My cousin was shot in a protest. My extended family has lost their life savings. But sure Brad, go ahead and tell me I don't understand Venezuela.
https://twitter.com/joannahausmann?lang=en

Joanna, you don't understand Venezuela or much else either. :)

Ideology free-zone here: Wikipedia says
Quote
She is the daughter of Harvard University economist Ricardo Hausmann, as well as journalist and former CNN en Español host, Ana Julia Jatar.

Her brother is Michel Hausmann, a Venezuelan theater director who endured a case of discrimination after an orchestra cancelled their collaboration with his production of Fiddler on the Roof, citing their concern for government funding under Hugo Chávez, who had been [accused of] inciting antisemitism.

[ Who hasn't been accused of anti-Semitism? It's a much shorter list as it has become an international Sport these days! ]

She is also the niece of well-known Venezuelan political prisoner, Braulio Jatar.

She is a [...]  vocal critic of the government of Nicolas Maduro in her native Venezuela.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joanna_Hausmann

No Ideology anywhere to be seen - not a bit! :)

Quote
Braulio Jatar Alonso
@BraulioJatarA

translated Tweet goes like this: Let us be clear that for the future of Venezuela, it is necessary to understand its past beyond twenty years. ["Communism has never come to power in a country that was not interrupted by war or corruption or, both"] John F. Kennedy
https://twitter.com/brauliojatara?lang=en

Quote
Braulio Jatar
Reporte Confidencial | Imprisoned in Venezuela | September 03, 2016

 a day after he reported on an anti-government protest, according to news reports and his wife, with whom CPJ spoke. [...] his sister told Reuters. [ ie Ana Julia Jatar in the USA mother of Joanna Hausmann ]

Jatar is also a lawyer and a political activist. In the 1990s he worked as a legal adviser to the Venezuelan Congress. He faced charges of extortion in 1991 and fled to Miami, according to news reports. He was later exonerated, according to reports.

The journalist, who is a dual Venezuelan-Chilean citizen, has worked closely with the former opposition mayor of Caracas, Antonio Ledezma. 

https://cpj.org/data/people/braulio-jatar/index.php

Why is that hundreds of other Journalists report on anti-government demonstrations, and other critical things against the Govt and yet all of them are not arrested as well? Something does not add up here.... the issue is not simply being an anti-government Journo

Quote
Braulio Jatar, un preso político que quiere ayudar a Venezuela a través de sus libros
“Ver el sufrir de mi hija o de mi hijo cuando me vieron con cabeza rapada, uniforme de preso y convertido en pellejo por la pérdida de más de veinte kilos, es un momento inolvidable”.
María Corina Roldán Robles | 10/11/2018
http://eltiempolatino.com/news/2018/oct/11/braulio-jatar-un-preso-politico-que-quiere-ayudar-/

Translation:
Quote
The humanitarian crisis in Venezuela is a well-known and discussed topic worldwide, but the harshness of the stories and suffering of each individual is lost due to the monumental amount of murder figures, deaths due to malnutrition, biblical migrations and evidence of Human Rights violations. .

Through the keyhole of the door that prevents us from seeing in detail all the horror that Venezuela is experiencing, we interviewed Braulio Jatar Alonso, editor of the Confidential Report web portal in that country and who according to the NGO Penal Forum, is one of the 262 political prisoners whose freedom has been deprived for opposing the regime of Nicolás Maduro.

But there's more to this story about the Hausmanns ..... and Joanna's obvious and overt personal  IDEOLOGICAL RACIAL CLASS BIASES :)
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 09, 2019, 03:45:04 AM
Bloomberg Markets News :)

Quote
Harvard Adviser to Venezuela’s Guaido Has Harsh Message for Bondholders
By Ben Bartenstein

30 January 2019
    Ricardo Hausmann has sketched out Venezuela reconstrucion plan
    One thing is clear, he says: ‘The haircut has to be large’

For years now, Ricardo Hausmann, the acclaimed Venezuelan economist who runs Harvard University’s Center for International Development, has been sketching out what he calls the morning-after plan. The morning after, that is, the socialist regime of Nicolas Maduro is ousted.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-01-30/harvard-guru-advising-guaido-has-harsh-message-for-bondholders

Say no more!

Oh, that still not enough to prove beyond all doubt the guy is has a permanent seat at the Neoliberal Boardroom Table?

OK OK

Quote
Ricardo Hausmann, a former minister of planning of Venezuela and former Chief Economist of the Inter-American Development Bank, is Director of the Center for International Development at Harvard University and a professor of economics at the Harvard Kennedy School.
https://www.project-syndicate.org/columnist/ricardo-hausmann

Quote
He co-introduced several regularly used concepts in economics including original sin, growth diagnostics, self-discovery, dark matter, the product space, and economic complexity.

Ricardo is the father
of art historian Carolina Hausmann, comedian Joanna Hausmann and playwright Michel Hausmann. 

Concurrently with his position at CID, Hausmann has also held several positions at profit and non-profit organizations: he was a member of the board of Venezuela's full-service telephone company CANTV (2001–2007), of microfinance institution ACCION International (2009–2011), and of the advisory board of Abengoa, a renewable energy and engineering company based in Spain

 From 2010 to 2011, he was also the elected president of the Latin-American and Caribbean Economic Association. 

Before coming to Harvard in September 2000, Hausmann served as the first Chief Economist of the Inter-American Development Bank (1994–2000), where he created the Research Department.

From 1992 to 1993, he served as Minister of Planning of Venezuela and as a member of the Board of the Central Bank of Venezuela.

Around the same time, he was Chair of the IMF-World Bank Development Committee. From 1985 to 1991, he was Professor of Economics at the Instituto de Estudios Superiores de Administracion (IESA) in Caracas, where he founded the Center for Public Policy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ricardo_Hausmann

Not an ideological political bone in his body that man!

Like everyone else he truly believes his beliefs are true - who doesn't?

But at least he and his daughter are NOT biased!!! :)
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 09, 2019, 03:48:41 AM
Just by engaging in these discussions about the 'facts', you are helping Trump and the GOP. Just like climate risk deniers, they control the conversation by forcing their talking points on you.

Rinse - Repeat
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 09, 2019, 04:55:35 AM



About Ex-Pats

In 2003 instead of listening to the sage advice oif the UNSC members, instead of listening to the Europeans, instead of listening to the US Intel Agencies, instead of listening to the UN Weapons Inspectors, instead of listening to Russia and China, instead of listening to reason and logic VP Dick Cheney and all the Neocons like John Bolton made unilateral decisions that made much more sense to them to instead listen to and believe wholeheartedly the unproven evidence free word of Iraqi Ex-Pats instead - and use that to push for Regime Change based on a dire WMD threat.

And they all knew they were lying about everything - they knew that - as does Trump, Pence, Bolton, Rubio and Pompeo also know they are lying about Venezuela too. Along with all the MSM pushing the "lying narratives" all over the world just as they did in 2003.

People like Ahmed Chalabi
Quote
Once dubbed the "George Washington of Iraq" by American supporters, he later fell out of favor and came under investigation by several U.S. government sources. 

Chalabi left Iraq with his family in 1958 - aged 13 years old, following the 14 July Revolution, and spent most of his life in the United States and the United Kingdom [ As has Joanna  Hausmann !!! ]

Chalabi was a bold and shrewd investor, amassing a fortune of $100 million. During his life he was accused of corruption many times.

In 1977, he founded the Petra Bank in Jordan with Crown Prince Hassan, the King's brother.

In May 1989, the Governor of the Central Bank of Jordan, Mohammed Said Nabulsi, issued a decree ordering all banks in the country to deposit 35% of their reserves with the Central Bank.  Petra Bank was the only bank that was unable to meet this requirement.

An investigation was launched which led to accusations of embezzlement and false accounting. The bank failed, causing a $350 million bail-out by the Central Bank. Chalabi fled the country, in the trunk of a Jordanian prince's car, before the authorities could react.

Chalabi was convicted and sentenced in absentia for bank fraud by a Jordanian military tribunal to 22 years in prison. Chalabi maintained that his prosecution was a politically motivated effort to discredit him sponsored by Saddam Hussein.

Living abroad by 1992 in London, and unable to return home for fear of his life, he set up the Iraqi National Congress with an agenda of regime change for his homeland. The organization was open to all ethnic Iraqis - Kurds and Arabs - as well as Sunnis and Shias. Already a fluent English speaker, he turned his attention to Washington DC.

In 1995 after preparation and lobbying he persuaded President Bill Clinton to fund an expedition into northern Iraq to use subterfuge to start an insurgency. Chalabi was convinced that the Iraqi military would rise up to overthrow the dictator.

[ What an IDIOT! And the dumb American IDIOTS like Clinton who believed him. ]

The commanders to whom he had spoken, were the same who openly supported Saddam and crushed his opponents in the Kurdish and Shi'ite revolts. The insurgency failed, lacking the promised ground troops, and 100 insurgents were killed by the military. The command structure of INC fell apart with factional infighting.

Chalabi was banned from those frequent visits to CIA headquarters at Langley, Virginia. Nonetheless Chalabi was doggedly determined: in 1998 Congress passed the Iraq Liberation Act passing into American law the objective of "regime change" in Iraq.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmed_Chalabi

Birds of a feather stick together. Chalabi was created in the very same petri dish as Dick Cheney was.

Yeah the man is a SAINT an Arab version of George Washington no less. What a joke this all is, to have some nobody rich white loud mouthed ignoramus EX-PAT sitting on a couch sprouting all these "non-ideological facts" about Venezuela.   

But some people are so stupid and so endlessly gullible they never learn a thing and thus remain ignorant and stupid their entire lives. Despite this positive change and some sanity can still happen - maybe.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 09, 2019, 05:01:53 AM



About Ex-Pats

In 2003 instead of listening to the sage advice oif the UNSC members, instead of listening to the Europeans, instead of listening to the US Intel Agencies, instead of listening to the UN Weapons Inspectors, instead of listening to Russia and China, instead of listening to reason and logic VP Dick Cheney and all the Neocons like John Bolton made unilateral decisions that made much more sense to them to instead listen to and believe wholeheartedly the unproven evidence free word of Iraqi Ex-Pats instead - and use that to push for Regime Change based on a dire WMD threat.

And they all knew they were lying about everything - they knew that - as does Trump, Pence, Bolton, Rubio and Pompeo also know they are lying about Venezuela too. Along with all the MSM pushing the "lying narratives" all over the world just as they did in 2003.

People like Ahmed Chalabi
Quote
Once dubbed the "George Washington of Iraq" by American supporters, he later fell out of favor and came under investigation by several U.S. government sources. 

Chalabi left Iraq with his family in 1958 - aged 13 years old, following the 14 July Revolution, and spent most of his life in the United States and the United Kingdom [ As has Joanna  Hausmann !!! ]

Chalabi was a bold and shrewd investor, amassing a fortune of $100 million. During his life he was accused of corruption many times.

In 1977, he founded the Petra Bank in Jordan with Crown Prince Hassan, the King's brother.

In May 1989, the Governor of the Central Bank of Jordan, Mohammed Said Nabulsi, issued a decree ordering all banks in the country to deposit 35% of their reserves with the Central Bank.  Petra Bank was the only bank that was unable to meet this requirement.

An investigation was launched which led to accusations of embezzlement and false accounting. The bank failed, causing a $350 million bail-out by the Central Bank. Chalabi fled the country, in the trunk of a Jordanian prince's car, before the authorities could react.

Chalabi was convicted and sentenced in absentia for bank fraud by a Jordanian military tribunal to 22 years in prison. Chalabi maintained that his prosecution was a politically motivated effort to discredit him sponsored by Saddam Hussein.

Living abroad by 1992 in London, and unable to return home for fear of his life, he set up the Iraqi National Congress with an agenda of regime change for his homeland. The organization was open to all ethnic Iraqis - Kurds and Arabs - as well as Sunnis and Shias. Already a fluent English speaker, he turned his attention to Washington DC.

In 1995 after preparation and lobbying he persuaded President Bill Clinton to fund an expedition into northern Iraq to use subterfuge to start an insurgency. Chalabi was convinced that the Iraqi military would rise up to overthrow the dictator.

[ What an IDIOT! And the dumb American IDIOTS like Clinton who believed him. ]

The commanders to whom he had spoken, were the same who openly supported Saddam and crushed his opponents in the Kurdish and Shi'ite revolts. The insurgency failed, lacking the promised ground troops, and 100 insurgents were killed by the military. The command structure of INC fell apart with factional infighting.

Chalabi was banned from those frequent visits to CIA headquarters at Langley, Virginia. Nonetheless Chalabi was doggedly determined: in 1998 Congress passed the Iraq Liberation Act passing into American law the objective of "regime change" in Iraq.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmed_Chalabi

Birds of a feather stick together. Chalabi was created in the very same petri dish as Dick Cheney was. And while less known individuals it appears that Ricardo Hausmann and Joanna Hausmann were too.

Yeah Chalabi is a SAINT - an Arab version of George Washington no less. What a joke this all is, to have some nobody, no better than Ahmed Chalabi - a 1 percenter loud mouthed white ignoramus EX-PAT sitting on a couch in the USA - spewing all these "non-ideological facts" about Venezuela.   

But some people consciously choose ignorance over wisdom. Despite this reality, positive change and some sanity can still happen - maybe.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 09, 2019, 05:02:28 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftch7ky0x_g
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 09, 2019, 06:18:52 AM
It's true - Too many facts, too many first hand reports, can make the brain hurt. Sorry about that. :)

Quote
02:26
"The opposition was far more weak than I had anticipated. The coup had much less momentum and was indeed a Reality TV show kind of Virtual-reality coup. And i was actually stunned at how, despite an economic crisis which was real, how functional like the daily life in Venezuelan society in Caracas was. Down to the situation in the poor and working-class Barrios where people are subsisting thanks to state subsidized food what they call the clap boxes.

The CLAP (sic) is the government program to supply the basic foodstuffs and sanitary needs for people who are living off of very meager salaries at a time of hyperinflation. And you know getting to visit those markets talking to the people in the barrios and seeing government ministers including the mayor of Caracas who's a really interesting person Erica Farr.

Yes actually you know comes to the markets and meets with constituents and to see the support they get. Just the genuine grass roots support they get, it really shows you that what we're hearing from these you know Senate committees, like the one that Marco Rubio chaired today, about you know this being a kind of crime family and a regime with no support in the streets that's on its way to collapsing.

It's just a bunch of hot air it's a PSYOP another humanitarian interventionist PSYOP.

And i think one of the most remarkable scenes for me was on february 23rd that was the day when the u.s. plan to ram through its so-called humanitarian aid across the Santander bridge between Colombia and Venezuela this was the big stunt"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfD-7_kXs9E

From yet another alternative news analysis youtube channel The Zero Hour with RJ Eskow
Published on 7 Mar 2019
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 09, 2019, 07:10:10 AM
From above:


Quote
30:13
"One of the biggest successes for the US was when the as far as regime change in Venezuela went was in 2014 when the price of the barrel oil barrels went down dramatically.

Why did it go down? Because and this was reported in The Wall Street Journal in oil industry
publications at the time that SoS John Kerry under President Obama had made a deal with I think King Abdullah in Saudi Arabia or it was the crown prince to increase Saudi capacity production in order to harm Russia Iran and Venezuela, which rely heavily on you know high oil prices.

And in exchange Saudi Arabia would gain US support in Syria and the US [the Barack Obama Administration ] would increase its you know delivery of weapons to Saudi backed rebels.


This was like reported openly in the wall street Journal and this is what tanked the Venezuelan economy beginning in 2014 and made it so hard for Venezuela's government to start to offset the speculative black market economy with price controls. This was kind of the beginning of the crisis that we're now seeing.

And so it wasn't something that occurred organically, it was due to the Petro Dollar and the US
special relationship with Saudi Arabia
. Maduro actually came out and openly said they're doing this to harm Russia when he himself was a target."

Quote
RJ Eskow31:38
"The other implication of that of course is that it it was done to undermine the form of government."

RJ Eskow 31:55
"So I guess just my closing thought is this, and what you're really describing - you know there's a lot of talk now here in this country about a green new deal about a jobs guarantee about and a debate - where I stand on this debate is that it's we have to look at these things in a kind of system's way and in an integrated way

That you can't really illiminate or reduce our dependence on climate destroying fossil fuels without also changing our economic system that generates that,
that allows people to exploit that.

And I think a lot of people who consider themselves progressive in this country understand that it's a puzzle with pieces that fit together but I think for a lot of people that mental puzzle image is missing a very big piece. And that piece is foreign policy!

And that if you don't understand the way that Petro Politics and other kinds of geopolitics and military adventurism or whatever (really works in our world) - you want to call it Imperial policies - how they play into all of this you don't have a fully three-dimensional view of the world.

And it's critical, not only as a moral imperative because we're for American citizens, but just a complete understanding of the world around you for you to understand what's going on in a country like Venezuela!"

There are a lot of people who need to listen and look but do not.

PS this was discussed in the video too
"We hate Russia. They lie. They are a threat to us. You shouldn't buy Gas from Russia!"

U.S. Imports from Russia of Crude Oil and Petroleum Products (Thousand Barrels) to 2018
https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MTTIM_NUS-NRS_1&f=M

(smile)
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 09, 2019, 07:18:55 AM
From above:


Quote
30:13
"One of the biggest successes for the US was when the as far as regime change in Venezuela went was in 2014 when the price of the barrel oil barrels went down dramatically.

Why did it go down? Because and this was reported in The Wall Street Journal in oil industry
publications at the time that SoS John Kerry under President Obama had made a deal with I think King Abdullah in Saudi Arabia or it was the crown prince to increase Saudi capacity production in order to harm Russia Iran and Venezuela, which rely heavily on you know high oil prices.

And in exchange Saudi Arabia would gain US support in Syria and the US [the Barack Obama Administration ] would increase its you know delivery of weapons to Saudi backed rebels.


This was like reported openly in the wall street Journal and this is what tanked the Venezuelan economy beginning in 2014 and made it so hard for Venezuela's government to start to offset the speculative black market economy with price controls. This was kind of the beginning of the crisis that we're now seeing.

And so it wasn't something that occurred organically, it was due to the Petro Dollar and the US
special relationship with Saudi Arabia
. Maduro actually came out and openly said they're doing this to harm Russia when he himself was a target."

Quote
RJ Eskow31:38
"The other implication of that of course is that it it was done to undermine the form of government."

RJ Eskow 31:55
"So I guess just my closing thought is this, and what you're really describing - you know there's a lot of talk now here in this country about a green new deal about a jobs guarantee about and a debate - where I stand on this debate is that it's we have to look at these things in a kind of system's way and in an integrated way

That you can't really illiminate or reduce our dependence on climate destroying fossil fuels without also changing our economic system that generates that,
that allows people to exploit that.

And I think a lot of people who consider themselves progressive in this country understand that it's a puzzle with pieces that fit together but I think for a lot of people that mental puzzle image is missing a very big piece. And that piece is foreign policy!

And that if you don't understand the way that Petro Politics and other kinds of geopolitics and military adventurism or whatever (really works in our world) - you want to call it Imperial policies - how they play into all of this you don't have a fully three-dimensional view of the world.

And it's critical, not only as a moral imperative because we're for American citizens, but just a complete understanding of the world around you for you to understand what's going on in a country like Venezuela!"

There are a lot of people who need to listen and look but do not.

PS this was discussed in the video too
"We hate Russia. They lie. They are a threat to us. You shouldn't buy Gas from Russia!"

U.S. Imports from Russia of Crude Oil and Petroleum Products (Thousand Barrels) to 2018
https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MTTIM_NUS-NRS_1&f=M

Too much information? (smile)
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on March 09, 2019, 09:28:27 AM
Quote
Thankfully, there are other voices in the US that go beyond the irrelevant narratives:

Here is the letter Ro Khanna sent to the Sec. of State :

https://khanna.house.gov/media/press-releases/release-khanna-leads-progressive-colleagues-call-peaceful-political-solution

It says, for example :

Quote
We strongly condemn the Maduro government's actions, including repression of Venezuelan civil society, failed economic policy, the killing of unarmed protestors, disregard for the rule of law, the holding of unfair elections, and blocking humanitarian aid from entering the country. However, threats of military intervention against a failed autocrat who poses no threat to our national security are simply unacceptable. U.S. military action in Venezuela would be unconstitutional without congressional authorization and illegal internationally without approval from the United Nations. We were deeply troubled to learn that President Trump, after having spoken publicly about a "military option" for Venezuela, reportedly pushed for military intervention in Venezuela in meetings with other senior officials in the White House.

Now I agree with all this, 100%, especially with the stand against Trump's "military option".

But do you agree too, Neven ? Especially, do you agree with the text I put in bold ?

<It is irrelevant, beside the point and not even worth discussing. What you are doing, is helping Trump and his neocon war cronies that should've been put in prison a long time, if only so they couldn't get close to government ever again. N.>

Explain this please :

When I agree 100% with the text that is put forward by Ro Khanna, text which YOU YOURSELF push as "other voices in the US that go beyond the irrelevant narratives:", then HOW EXACTLY am I "helping Trump and his neocon war cronies" again ?

You are not making any sense at all, Neven.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on March 09, 2019, 09:34:53 AM
This is what Bernie really said about Venezuela :

1:27:
Quote
What’s going on in Venezuela is terrible.
The economy is a disaster.
People are living in hunger and in fear.
I strongly believe there has to be an international and humanitarian effort
to improve lives for the people.
I think the evidence is clear that the last election in Venezuela was not a free and fair election,
and under international supervision, I want to see a free and fair election.
I 100% agree with that.
Do you too, Neven ?

It's beside the point, and the people in the panel and Jimmy Dore explain what is wrong with it.

Is it still Venezuela you care about today, or has the press already moved on to something else for you to care about?

I care deeply about Venezuela and Venezuelans. I really do.

But it seems you care about only ONE Venezuelan : Maduro.

I asked you a very simple YES/NO question :

Do you agree with Bernie Sanders' statements above about Venezuela, or not ?

<It is irrelevant, beside the point and not even worth discussing. What you are doing, is helping Trump and his neocon war cronies that should've been put in prison a long time, if only so they couldn't get close to government ever again. N.
[/quote]

Here is another case of Neven's world where up is down, left is right, democracy is bad and dictators are good :

I agree 100% with Bernie Sanders' statements, yet I get accused of "helping Trump and his neocon war cronies ", while Neven can't even acknowledge Sanders' statements.

Quote
And you don't care about Venezuelans. All you care about, is getting riled up by something, and mainstream media serves plenty of that. That's what makes it so easy for people to start wars. N.>


Neven, you don't get to decide whom or what I care about !
I was honest when I wrote that I deeply care about Venezuela and Venezuelans.

Where I come from (the Netherlands) if there is a conflict, we first lay out the facts, and agree on them. We respect each other personally, and then we find a common text that we can all agree about.

You are doing the opposite of that.

You censor/delete the facts that I post, and when a Venezuelan posts the facts, as Sterks posted here :

https://youtu.be/bEvHwiJWgAY

you downplay that as "beside the point" ?

WTF ?

Then you pull me through the mud personally, and let Lurk top that off, and
then you don't even want to agree with the text from Bernie Sanders that you yourself proposed !

While in fact I am actually the one who agree with the text from Bernie ! Not you ?

You are acting like a dictator on this forum, not somebody who would like to resolve a dispute or come to some common understanding, and at this point I seriously doubt that you are a "progressive" like Bernie or me.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Sterks on March 09, 2019, 10:51:14 AM

...
With their white skin and suit case full of US Dollars and jewellery.  :)

Damn if only I had seen this 5 minute "fact filled" rant by a wealthy well-to-do upper class white American Jewish lady on a couch!

RACIAL CLASS BIASES

Haha you like that other Austrian from the 40's
So you cannot be Latin American and Jewish at the same time. And you cannot complain if you are Jewish.
You are full of shit
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Sterks on March 09, 2019, 11:03:29 AM
Neven, it is just that this issue touches me closer and somebody opened this thread.

Is Maduro/Chaves neo-con (yes yes at least their pockets are). Is Putin neo-con? (maybe). Is Xi? Sí. The Norwegians? (perhaps)

All in common is human greed, just as those far left guys that fly around in private jets.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on March 09, 2019, 11:35:10 AM
U.S. Imports from Russia of Crude Oil and Petroleum Products (Thousand Barrels) to 2018
https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MTTIM_NUS-NRS_1&f=M

Too much information? (smile)

Oh. Wow. 10,000 barrels per month.
That's like... 330 barrels per day imported from Russia.
What was your point again ?
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 09, 2019, 12:43:31 PM

...
With their white skin and suit case full of US Dollars and jewellery.  :)

Damn if only I had seen this 5 minute "fact filled" rant by a wealthy well-to-do upper class white American Jewish lady on a couch!

RACIAL CLASS BIASES

Haha you like that other Austrian from the 40's
So you cannot be Latin American and Jewish at the same time. And you cannot complain if you are Jewish.
You are full of shit

Such bad language, tsk tsk.

The issue is one of privilege. Joanna's grandfather arrived from Europe, her grandparents were not Latinos. Maybe her mother was, I've not checked that far into it. Would you like me too?

It is a Privilege to be born Jewish anywhere, on many levels. Anyone born white in Venezuela is also born into Privilege - Joanna is no exception, in fact her privileged life is greater than most.

She exited Venezuela as a teen like Chalabi. Now she rants from her couch as if she is an expert on all things Venezuela and you, another born into Privilege and living in it 24/7, just lap it up.
Quote
Wow I must say I am surprised you believe these distorted facts just like that.

The video you posted?

Quote
an interesting video of a Venezuelan living in America and trying to explain reality from confusion in the least possible ideological position.

The daughter of Ricardo Hausmann no less. The niece of Braulio Jatar no less.
 
So it's debatable who is actually full of shit here. I'll posit it's Joanna who wins the prize.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 09, 2019, 12:55:20 PM

...
With their white skin and suit case full of US Dollars and jewellery.  :)

Damn if only I had seen this 5 minute "fact filled" rant by a wealthy well-to-do upper class white American Jewish lady on a couch!

RACIAL CLASS BIASES

Haha you like that other Austrian from the 40's
So you cannot be Latin American and Jewish at the same time. And you cannot complain if you are Jewish.
You are full of shit

Such bad language, tsk tsk. So quick with Godwin's Law. 

The issue is one of privilege. Joanna's grandfather arrived from Europe, her grandparents were not Latinos. Maybe her mother was, I've not checked that far into it. But they most definitely are not Mestizos nor the descendants of Afro-Venezuelans slaves. 

It is a Privilege to be born Jewish anywhere, on many levels. Anyone born white in Venezuela is also born into Privilege - Joanna is no exception, in fact her privileged life is greater than most. Guaido knows first hand how privileged she is. Where is she living now, for example?

She exited Venezuela as a teen like Chalabi. Now she rants from her couch as if she is an expert on all things Venezuela and you, another born into Privilege and living in it 24/7, just lap it up.
Quote
Wow I must say I am surprised you believe these distorted facts just like that.

The video you posted?

Quote
an interesting video of a Venezuelan living in America and trying to explain reality from confusion in the least possible ideological position.

The daughter of Ricardo Hausmann no less. The niece of Braulio Jatar no less.
 
So it's debatable who is actually full of shit. I'll posit it's Joanna who wins 1st prize. :)
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 09, 2019, 01:04:39 PM

...
With their white skin and suit case full of US Dollars and jewellery.  :)

Damn if only I had seen this 5 minute "fact filled" rant by a wealthy well-to-do upper class white American Jewish lady on a couch!

RACIAL CLASS BIASES

Haha you like that other Austrian from the 40's
So you cannot be Latin American and Jewish at the same time. And you cannot complain if you are Jewish.
You are full of shit

Such bad language, tsk tsk. So quick with Godwin's Law. 

The issue is one of privilege. Joanna's grandfather arrived from Europe, her grandparents were not Latinos. Maybe her mother was, I've not checked that far into it. But they most definitely are not Mestizos nor the descendants of Afro-Venezuelan slaves either.  She was never called "ese mono" or "el Negro" in the streets.

It is a Privilege to be born Jewish anywhere, on many levels. Anyone born white in Venezuela is also born into Privilege - Joanna is no exception, in fact her privileged life is greater than most. Guaido knows first hand how privileged she is. Where is she living now, for example?

She exited Venezuela as a teen like Chalabi. Now she rants from her couch as if she is an expert on all things Venezuela and you, another born into Privilege and living in it 24/7, just lap it up.
Quote
Wow I must say I am surprised you believe these distorted facts just like that.

The video you posted?

Quote
an interesting video of a Venezuelan living in America and trying to explain reality from confusion in the least possible ideological position.

The daughter of Ricardo Hausmann no less. The niece of Braulio Jatar no less.
 
So it's debatable who is actually full of shit. I'll posit it's Joanna who wins 1st prize. :)

Quote
“And if you look at the upper socio-economic levels of the country,” Acosta-Alzuru said, “they tend to be whiter than on the lower socio-economic levels. That is something that is very apparent to everybody.”

“And this is also where it’s very different from the United States: You had people upset and even saying they were disgusted at having to look at Chavez.

"He was often called ‘the black’ (el Negro) by Venezuelan elites and also understood to be Afro- and indigenous—as opposed to mestizo,” Ciccariello-Maher said.

“Part of what angered elites so much when Chavez came to power was that he was a person who didn’t look like he was ‘fit’ to govern,” said George Ciccariello-Maher, an assistant professor of political science at Drexel University in Philadelphia, is the author of We Created Chávez: A People’s History of the Venezuelan Revolution.

https://www.voanews.com/a/are-race-and-class-at-the-root-of-venezuelas-political-crisis/1886458.html
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 09, 2019, 01:15:59 PM

...
With their white skin and suit case full of US Dollars and jewellery.  :)

Damn if only I had seen this 5 minute "fact filled" rant by a wealthy well-to-do upper class white American Jewish lady on a couch!

RACIAL CLASS BIASES

Haha you like that other Austrian from the 40's
So you cannot be Latin American and Jewish at the same time. And you cannot complain if you are Jewish.
You are full of shit

Such bad language, tsk tsk. So quick with Godwin's Law. 

The issue is one of privilege. Joanna's grandfather arrived from Europe, her grandparents were not Latinos. Maybe her mother was, I've not checked that far into it. But they most definitely are not Mestizos nor the descendants of Afro-Venezuelan slaves either.  She was never called "ese mono" or "el Negro" in the streets.

It is a Privilege to be born Jewish anywhere, on many levels. Anyone born white in Venezuela is also born into Privilege - Joanna is no exception, in fact her privileged life is greater than most. Guaido knows first hand how privileged she is. Where is she living now, for example?

She exited Venezuela as a teen like Chalabi. Now she rants from her couch as if she is an expert on all things Venezuela and you, another born into Privilege and living in it 24/7, just lap it up.
Quote
Wow I must say I am surprised you believe these distorted facts just like that.

The video you posted?

Quote
an interesting video of a Venezuelan living in America and trying to explain reality from confusion in the least possible ideological position.

The daughter of Ricardo Hausmann no less. The niece of Braulio Jatar no less.
 
So it's debatable who is actually full of shit. I'll posit it's Joanna who wins 1st prize. :)

Quote
“And if you look at the upper socio-economic levels of the country,” Acosta-Alzuru said, “they tend to be whiter than on the lower socio-economic levels. That is something that is very apparent to everybody.”

“And this is also where it’s very different from the United States: You had people upset and even saying they were disgusted at having to look at Chavez.

"He was often called ‘the black’ (el Negro) by Venezuelan elites and also understood to be Afro- and indigenous—as opposed to mestizo,” Ciccariello-Maher said.

“Part of what angered elites so much when Chavez came to power was that he was a person who didn’t look like he was ‘fit’ to govern,” said George Ciccariello-Maher, an assistant professor of political science at Drexel University in Philadelphia, is the author of We Created Chávez: A People’s History of the Venezuelan Revolution.

https://www.voanews.com/a/are-race-and-class-at-the-root-of-venezuelas-political-crisis/1886458.html
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Neven on March 09, 2019, 03:04:40 PM
Neven, it is just that this issue touches me closer and somebody opened this thread.

Is Maduro/Chaves neo-con (yes yes at least their pockets are). Is Putin neo-con? (maybe). Is Xi? Sí. The Norwegians? (perhaps)

All in common is human greed, just as those far left guys that fly around in private jets.

Yes, it's a systemic problem. Which makes it so stupid to just focus on one little aspect of it. That's exactly what they want you to do.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 10, 2019, 05:46:25 AM
Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro accused the US of waging an 'electricity war' against the country, as Caracas and other cities were plunged into darkness Thursday night. The government says the incident is likely sabotage.

8 Mar, 2019
https://www.rt.com/news/453310-venezuela-outage-sabotage-us/

9 Mar, 2019
https://www.rt.com/news/453403-veneuzuela-outage-cyber-attack/

9 Mar, 2019
https://www.rt.com/news/453434-venezuela-maduro-cyberattack-power-grid/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSxLdcJn8ic
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on March 10, 2019, 07:27:20 AM
Quote
Quote
This is what Bernie really said about Venezuela :

1:27:
Quote
What’s going on in Venezuela is terrible.
The economy is a disaster.
People are living in hunger and in fear.
I strongly believe there has to be an international and humanitarian effort
to improve lives for the people.
I think the evidence is clear that the last election in Venezuela was not a free and fair election,
and under international supervision, I want to see a free and fair election.
I 100% agree with that.
Do you too, Neven ?

It's beside the point, and the people in the panel and Jimmy Dore explain what is wrong with it.

Is it still Venezuela you care about today, or has the press already moved on to something else for you to care about?

I care deeply about Venezuela and Venezuelans. I really do.

But it seems you care about only ONE Venezuelan : Maduro.

I asked you a very simple YES/NO question :

Do you agree with Bernie Sanders' statements above about Venezuela, or not ?

<It is irrelevant, beside the point and not even worth discussing. What you are doing, is helping Trump and his neocon war cronies that should've been put in prison a long time, if only so they couldn't get close to government ever again. N.

Here is another case of Neven's world where up is down, left is right, democracy is bad and dictators are good :

I agree 100% with Bernie Sanders' statements, yet I get accused of "helping Trump and his neocon war cronies ", while Neven can't even acknowledge Sanders' statements.

Quote
And you don't care about Venezuelans. All you care about, is getting riled up by something, and mainstream media serves plenty of that. That's what makes it so easy for people to start wars. N.>


Neven, you don't get to decide whom or what I care about !
I was honest when I wrote that I deeply care about Venezuela and Venezuelans.

Where I come from (the Netherlands) if there is a conflict, we first lay out the facts, and agree on them. We respect each other personally, and then we find a common text that we can all agree about.

You are doing the opposite of that.

You censor/delete the facts that I post, and when a Venezuelan posts the facts, as Sterks posted here :

https://youtu.be/bEvHwiJWgAY

you downplay that as "beside the point" ?

WTF ?

Then you pull me through the mud personally, and let Lurk top that off, and
then you don't even want to agree with the text from Bernie Sanders that you yourself proposed !

While in fact I am actually the one who agree with the text from Bernie ! Not you ?

You are acting like a dictator on this forum, not somebody who would like to resolve a dispute or come to some common understanding, and at this point I seriously doubt that you are a "progressive" like Bernie or me.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on March 10, 2019, 07:44:18 AM
Quote
<It is entirely irrelevant to what the real point is, so it doesn't matter whether I agree or not. I do however agree that sanctions need to be lifted, and everyone needs to leave Venezuela alone to deal with its issues, and not overtly or covertly push for regime changes; N.>

Thank you for your opinion.

Personally, I'm with the 50 countries that call for UN supervised free and fair elections.

If Maduro is confident that he has the majority vote, he should not have any problem with that.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on March 10, 2019, 08:22:09 AM
Today's protests, as seen through the eyes of the obviously "US imperialist" Al Jazeera :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7-6NpAqQwg

Note Maduro's speech at 2:20 which blamed the power outage in Venezuela on the US for a "highly scientific energy attack", "with advanced technology" which "what our experts called an electromagnetic attack".

Sure, buddy. I'm sure Venezuela was the victim of the "electromagnetic attack" app that is trending on iPhone lately.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on March 10, 2019, 08:38:48 AM
Today's protests, as seen through the eyes of the obviously "US imperialist" Al Jazeera :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7-6NpAqQwg

Note Maduro's speech at 2:20 which blamed the power outage in Venezuela on the US for a "highly scientific energy attack", "with advanced technology" which "what our experts called an electromagnetic attack".

Sure, buddy. I'm sure Venezuela was the victim of the "electromagnetic attack" app that is trending on iPhone lately.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Neven on March 10, 2019, 09:35:55 AM
Sure, buddy. I'm sure Venezuela was the victim of the "electromagnetic attack" app that is trending on iPhone lately.

I wonder where he got that idea from. USA-Gate?  ;D
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 10, 2019, 03:24:28 PM
U.S. military action in Venezuela would be unconstitutional without congressional authorization and illegal internationally

Just a small point. It appears that what the USA is already doing re Venezuela is already Unconstitutional acts and speech by the WH as it is a clear breach it's Treaty obligations to the UN under the UN Charter of which it is a party to said Treaty - and therefore a clear breach of the US Constitution by the Trump Regime in Washington.

Of course this is not the first time, and it won't be the last time that such Constitutional Breaches are ignored by everyone in the USA from SCOTUS down to the local school janitor.

The things the US is doing that are illegal under international law and multiple other treaties are too many to list but they to will be ignored.

Might is always Right in this world. In this case, as they have been before many times, the American people are again incredibly weak. Just sharin' the truth bro! You know what I'm sayin' :)

What happened in 1998 was not that unlike what happened to South Africa when the ANC under Mandela formed the new Government. Change and major reform is always a little messy. High expectations are certain to be not met as well as people hoped. But it is not the end of the world - far from it.  What's happened since Chavez passed away is not that dissimilar to when Mandela left office - things got a little rocky for a while. It's what happens. It's natural. It's quite normal in fact when there are big shoes to fill in any nation. 
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 10, 2019, 03:31:34 PM
U.S. military action in Venezuela would be unconstitutional without congressional authorization and illegal internationally

Just a small point. It appears that what the USA is already doing re Venezuela is already Unconstitutional acts and speech by the WH as it is a clear breach it's Treaty obligations to the UN under the UN Charter of which it is a party to said Treaty - and therefore a clear breach of the US Constitution by the Trump Regime in Washington.

Of course this is not the first time, and it won't be the last time that such Constitutional Breaches are ignored by everyone in the USA from SCOTUS down to the local school janitor.

The things the US is doing that are illegal under international law and multiple other treaties are too many to list but they to will be ignored.

Might is always Right in this world. In this case, as they have been before many times, the American people are again incredibly weak. Just sharin' the truth bro! You know what I'm sayin' :)

What happened in 1998 was not that unlike what happened to South Africa when the ANC under Mandela formed the new Government. Change and major reform is always a little messy. High expectations are certain to be not met as well as people hoped. But it is not the end of the world - far from it.  What's happened since Chavez passed away is not that dissimilar to when Mandela left office - things got a little rocky for a while. It's what happens. It's natural. It's quite normal in fact when there are big shoes to fill in any nation.  On top of that there's the centuries of entrenched racism and injustices to work out in the wash. People in glass houses and all ...
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 10, 2019, 03:51:07 PM
Here's a Murdoch press report that will suit the conservative external regime change minded nicely edited and definitely biased/unbalanced so should make many happy. :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2BWkRm2ZOw

The question remains between the last two videos - one shows a distant broad shot of the pro-Maduro red shirt  crowds and the other a distant broad shot of white shirt crowds. It's up to the viewer which one they see ore clearly and which which one they choose to believe is more relavant.

There's another hidden question is that is are those videos of the crowds actually taken on the day the reports are about .. or another day? Such the unreliability of all news services these days, especially in a crisis like Venezuela.

I also think it odd the man would say, hey look at that cue to the gas station in such a rich oil country .... while ignoring the fact it's after a day or two of massive power outages. But that's our news media for you.

Any "shortages" were not stopping the hundreds of cars on the freeway system shown in the rest of the video while the guy was on his motorcycle.

It never surprises me how these things are played out in our media in this day and age and how most people keep on believing what they want to believe anyway. Lakoff is right - whatever the real facts are they make so little difference to anyone. ergo climate denial all other forms of denial as well.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 10, 2019, 04:19:23 PM
Here's a Murdoch press report that will suit the conservative external regime change minded nicely edited and definitely biased/unbalanced so should make many happy. :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2BWkRm2ZOw

The question remains between the last two videos - one shows a distant broad shot of the pro-Maduro red shirt  crowds and the other a distant broad shot of white shirt crowds. It's up to the viewer which one they see more clearly and which which one they choose to believe is more relevant.

There's another hidden question is that is are those videos of the crowds actually taken on the day the reports are about .. or another day? Such the unreliability of all news services these days, especially in a crisis like Venezuela.

I also think it odd the man would say, hey look at that cue to the gas station in such a rich oil country .... while ignoring the fact it's after a day or two of massive power outages. But that's our news media for you.

Any "shortages" were not stopping the hundreds of cars on the freeway system shown in the rest of the video while the guy was on his motorcycle.

It never surprises me how these things are played out in our media in this day and age and how most people keep on believing what they want to believe anyway. Lakoff is right - whatever the real facts are they make so little difference to anyone. ergo climate denial all other forms of denial as well.

It's just the way it is - what caused the power outages is  matter of belief not one of evidence.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 11, 2019, 02:34:01 AM
I guess that Rob et al do not see the irony of crying crocodile tears over the President of Venezuela when his own country's President is Donald Trump.


Greenwald rips US media for warmongering lies:

"What we have here is classic Fake News – spread on Twitter, by U.S. officials and U.S. media stars – with the clear and malicious intent to start a war. But no western proponents of social media censorship will call for their accounts to be cancelled nor call for their posts to be deleted.

That’s because “Fake News” and the war against it is strictly a means of combating propaganda by U.S. adversaries; the U.S. and its allies maintain extensive programs to spread Fake News online and none of those anti-Fake News crusaders call for those to be shut down."

"That’s not because U.S. media stars are ordered to do this. They don’t need to be ordered. They know propaganda is their job. More to the point, they are über-patriotic jingoists who revere U.S. officials "

https://theintercept.com/2019/03/10/nyts-expose-on-the-lies-about-burning-humanitarian-trucks-in-venezuela-shows-how-us-govt-and-media-spread-fake-news/

posted by sidd on journalism thread

Quote
Every major U.S. war of the last several decades has begun the same way: the U.S. Government fabricates an inflammatory, emotionally provocative lie which large U.S. media outlets uncritically treat as truth while refusing at air questioning or dissent, thus inflaming primal anger against the country the U.S. wants to attack. That’s how we got the Vietnam War (North Vietnam attacks U.S. ships in the Gulf of Tonkin); the Gulf War (Saddam ripped babies from incubators); and, of course, the war in Iraq (Saddam had WMDs and formed an alliance with Al Qaeda).

This was exactly the tactic used on February 23, when the narrative shifted radically in favor of those U.S. officials who want regime change operations in Venezuela. That’s because images were broadcast all over the world of trucks carrying humanitarian aid burning in Colombia on the Venezuela border. U.S. officials who have been agitating for a regime change war in Venezuela – Marco Rubio, John Bolton, Mike Pompeo, the head of USAid Mark Green – used Twitter to spread classic Fake News: they vehemently stated that the trucks were set on fire, on purpose, by President Nicolas Maduro’s forces.

    Each of the trucks burned by Maduro carried 20 tons of food & medicine. This is a crime & if international law means anything he must pay a high price for this. #23FAyudaHumanitaria https://t.co/IrGzrOUX09

    — Marco Rubio (@marcorubio) February 23, 2019

    Masked thugs, civilians killed by live rounds, and the burning of trucks carrying badly-needed food and medicine. This has been Maduro’s response to peaceful efforts to help Venezuelans. Countries that still recognize Maduro should take note of what they are endorsing. pic.twitter.com/KlSebd2M5a

    — John Bolton (@AmbJohnBolton) February 23, 2019

    .@SecPompeo: We denounce Maduro’s refusal to let humanitarian assistance reach #Venezuela. What kind of a sick tyrant stops food from getting to hungry people? The images of burning trucks filled with aid are sickening. https://t.co/zzFNYVly2c

    — USConsulateFrankfurt (@usconsfrankfurt) February 24, 2019

    #Maduro ordering the firing on and burning of trucks filled with
    humanitarian aid & attacking volunteers is unconscionable. I condemn the killings & human rights abuses committed by Maduro. Violent attacks against life-saving aid for #Venezuela is despicable. #EstamosUnidosVE https://t.co/BOSuVP1mTL

    — Mark Green (@USAIDMarkGreen) February 23, 2019



I saw it on social media so it must be true. Donald Trump said it. Marco Rubio said it. John Bolton said it. CNN said it. Hannity said it. It must be all true! We have to help those poor suffering unfree Venezuelans or I won't be able to sleep at night any more.

Don't you agree? And if not why don't you agree with ME and all the US media and the US Congress and the White House and all decent people everywhere?

I think there is something permanently wrong with the people who cannot work out for themselves that they are being played again again and again.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 11, 2019, 02:43:33 AM
I guess that Rob et al do not see the irony of crying crocodile tears over the President of Venezuela when his own country's President is Donald Trump.


Greenwald rips US media for warmongering lies:

"What we have here is classic Fake News – spread on Twitter, by U.S. officials and U.S. media stars – with the clear and malicious intent to start a war. But no western proponents of social media censorship will call for their accounts to be cancelled nor call for their posts to be deleted.

That’s because “Fake News” and the war against it is strictly a means of combating propaganda by U.S. adversaries; the U.S. and its allies maintain extensive programs to spread Fake News online and none of those anti-Fake News crusaders call for those to be shut down."

"That’s not because U.S. media stars are ordered to do this. They don’t need to be ordered. They know propaganda is their job. More to the point, they are über-patriotic jingoists who revere U.S. officials "

https://theintercept.com/2019/03/10/nyts-expose-on-the-lies-about-burning-humanitarian-trucks-in-venezuela-shows-how-us-govt-and-media-spread-fake-news/

posted by sidd on journalism thread

Quote
Every major U.S. war of the last several decades has begun the same way: the U.S. Government fabricates an inflammatory, emotionally provocative lie which large U.S. media outlets uncritically treat as truth while refusing at air questioning or dissent, thus inflaming primal anger against the country the U.S. wants to attack. That’s how we got the Vietnam War (North Vietnam attacks U.S. ships in the Gulf of Tonkin); the Gulf War (Saddam ripped babies from incubators); and, of course, the war in Iraq (Saddam had WMDs and formed an alliance with Al Qaeda).

This was exactly the tactic used on February 23, when the narrative shifted radically in favor of those U.S. officials who want regime change operations in Venezuela. That’s because images were broadcast all over the world of trucks carrying humanitarian aid burning in Colombia on the Venezuela border. U.S. officials who have been agitating for a regime change war in Venezuela – Marco Rubio, John Bolton, Mike Pompeo, the head of USAid Mark Green – used Twitter to spread classic Fake News: they vehemently stated that the trucks were set on fire, on purpose, by President Nicolas Maduro’s forces.

    Each of the trucks burned by Maduro carried 20 tons of food & medicine. This is a crime & if international law means anything he must pay a high price for this. #23FAyudaHumanitaria https://t.co/IrGzrOUX09

    — Marco Rubio (@marcorubio) February 23, 2019

    Masked thugs, civilians killed by live rounds, and the burning of trucks carrying badly-needed food and medicine. This has been Maduro’s response to peaceful efforts to help Venezuelans. Countries that still recognize Maduro should take note of what they are endorsing. pic.twitter.com/KlSebd2M5a

    — John Bolton (@AmbJohnBolton) February 23, 2019

    .@SecPompeo: We denounce Maduro’s refusal to let humanitarian assistance reach #Venezuela. What kind of a sick tyrant stops food from getting to hungry people? The images of burning trucks filled with aid are sickening. https://t.co/zzFNYVly2c

    — USConsulateFrankfurt (@usconsfrankfurt) February 24, 2019

    #Maduro ordering the firing on and burning of trucks filled with
    humanitarian aid & attacking volunteers is unconscionable. I condemn the killings & human rights abuses committed by Maduro. Violent attacks against life-saving aid for #Venezuela is despicable. #EstamosUnidosVE https://t.co/BOSuVP1mTL

    — Mark Green (@USAIDMarkGreen) February 23, 2019



I saw it on social media so it must be true. Donald Trump said it. Marco Rubio said it. John Bolton said it. CNN said it. Hannity said it. It must be all true! We have to help those poor suffering unfree Venezuelans or I won't be able to sleep at night any more.

Don't you agree? And if not why don't you agree with ME and all the US media and the US Congress and the White House and all decent people everywhere?
Quote

U.S. news stars and think tank luminaries who lack even a single critical brain cell when it comes to war-provoking claims from U.S. officials took a leading role in beating the war drums without spending even a single second to ask whether what they were being told were true:

    This is just evil https://t.co/kDOJBZ48td

    — Kasie Hunt (@kasie) February 23, 2019

I think there is something permanently not right with the people who cannot work out for themselves that they are being played again again and again. Zero critical thinking skills combined with billions of Gullibility Genes maybe?
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 11, 2019, 02:54:29 AM
Greenwald rips US media for warmongering lies:

"What we have here is classic Fake News – spread on Twitter, by U.S. officials and U.S. media stars – with the clear and malicious intent to start a war. But no western proponents of social media censorship will call for their accounts to be cancelled nor call for their posts to be deleted.

That’s because “Fake News” and the war against it is strictly a means of combating propaganda by U.S. adversaries; the U.S. and its allies maintain extensive programs to spread Fake News online and none of those anti-Fake News crusaders call for those to be shut down."

"That’s not because U.S. media stars are ordered to do this. They don’t need to be ordered. They know propaganda is their job. More to the point, they are über-patriotic jingoists who revere U.S. officials "

https://theintercept.com/2019/03/10/nyts-expose-on-the-lies-about-burning-humanitarian-trucks-in-venezuela-shows-how-us-govt-and-media-spread-fake-news/

posted by sidd on journalism thread

Quote
Every major U.S. war of the last several decades has begun the same way: the U.S. Government fabricates an inflammatory, emotionally provocative lie which large U.S. media outlets uncritically treat as truth while refusing at air questioning or dissent, thus inflaming primal anger against the country the U.S. wants to attack. That’s how we got the Vietnam War (North Vietnam attacks U.S. ships in the Gulf of Tonkin); the Gulf War (Saddam ripped babies from incubators); and, of course, the war in Iraq (Saddam had WMDs and formed an alliance with Al Qaeda).

This was exactly the tactic used on February 23, when the narrative shifted radically in favor of those U.S. officials who want regime change operations in Venezuela. That’s because images were broadcast all over the world of trucks carrying humanitarian aid burning in Colombia on the Venezuela border. U.S. officials who have been agitating for a regime change war in Venezuela – Marco Rubio, John Bolton, Mike Pompeo, the head of USAid Mark Green – used Twitter to spread classic Fake News: they vehemently stated that the trucks were set on fire, on purpose, by President Nicolas Maduro’s forces.

    Each of the trucks burned by Maduro carried 20 tons of food & medicine. This is a crime & if international law means anything he must pay a high price for this. #23FAyudaHumanitaria https://t.co/IrGzrOUX09

    — Marco Rubio (@marcorubio) February 23, 2019

    Masked thugs, civilians killed by live rounds, and the burning of trucks carrying badly-needed food and medicine. This has been Maduro’s response to peaceful efforts to help Venezuelans. Countries that still recognize Maduro should take note of what they are endorsing. pic.twitter.com/KlSebd2M5a

    — John Bolton (@AmbJohnBolton) February 23, 2019

    .@SecPompeo: We denounce Maduro’s refusal to let humanitarian assistance reach #Venezuela. What kind of a sick tyrant stops food from getting to hungry people? The images of burning trucks filled with aid are sickening. https://t.co/zzFNYVly2c

    — USConsulateFrankfurt (@usconsfrankfurt) February 24, 2019

    #Maduro ordering the firing on and burning of trucks filled with
    humanitarian aid & attacking volunteers is unconscionable. I condemn the killings & human rights abuses committed by Maduro. Violent attacks against life-saving aid for #Venezuela is despicable. #EstamosUnidosVE https://t.co/BOSuVP1mTL

    — Mark Green (@USAIDMarkGreen) February 23, 2019



I saw it on social media so it must be true. Donald Trump said it. Marco Rubio said it. John Bolton said it. CNN said it. Hannity said it. It must be all true! We have to help those poor suffering unfree Venezuelans or I won't be able to sleep at night any more.

Don't you agree? And if not why don't you agree with ME and all the US media and the US Congress and the White House and all decent people everywhere?
Quote

U.S. news stars and think tank luminaries who lack even a single critical brain cell when it comes to war-provoking claims from U.S. officials took a leading role in beating the war drums without spending even a single second to ask whether what they were being told were true:

    This is just evil https://t.co/kDOJBZ48td

    — Kasie Hunt (@kasie) February 23, 2019

I think there is something permanently not right with the people who cannot work out for themselves that they are being played again again and again. Zero critical thinking skills combined with billions of Gullibility Genes maybe?
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 11, 2019, 03:02:49 AM
If you are implying that it's all because Maduro can't handle the hyperinflation, and so now some Harvard agent can rightfully proclaim himself king, with the entire world simply ignoring international law and accepting him as such, then you are wrong.

And I lie you not, I have heard narrative along same lines told to me by Venezuelan refugees in Madrid, people that left their country with not much apart from willing to have a life with dignity. This Already started going south from the times of the other mofo, the insufferable Chaves, now happily sleeping the eternal dream after screwing all he could.
Confy in your cab in Northrn Europe? Enjoy! We are really lucky people.


PS Israeli + Venezeulan

Brookings Inst. Economist Biased Racist Shill for Empire without a critical brain cell or an ounce of morality in his whole body? Or truth teller?

(https://theintercept.imgix.net/wp-uploads/sites/1/2019/03/dan11-1552226557.jpg?auto=compress%2Cformat&q=90)

"While the NYT’s article and video are perfectly good and necessary journalism, the credit they are implicitly claiming for themselves for exposing this lie is totally undeserved.

That’s because independent journalists – the kind who question rather than mindlessly repeat government claims and are therefore mocked and marginalized and kept off mainstream television – used exactly this same evidence on the day of the incident to debunk the lies being told by Rubio, Pompeo, Bolton and CNN."



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OedkyxEqtA
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 11, 2019, 03:10:31 AM
If you are implying that it's all because Maduro can't handle the hyperinflation, and so now some Harvard agent can rightfully proclaim himself king, with the entire world simply ignoring international law and accepting him as such, then you are wrong.

And I lie you not, I have heard narrative along same lines told to me by Venezuelan refugees in Madrid, people that left their country with not much apart from willing to have a life with dignity. This Already started going south from the times of the other mofo, the insufferable Chaves, now happily sleeping the eternal dream after screwing all he could.
Confy in your cab in Northrn Europe? Enjoy! We are really lucky people.


PS Israeli + Venezeulan

Brookings Inst. Economist Biased Racist Shill for Empire without a critical brain cell or an ounce of morality in his whole body? Or truth teller?

(https://theintercept.imgix.net/wp-uploads/sites/1/2019/03/dan11-1552226557.jpg?auto=compress%2Cformat&q=90)

"While the NYT’s article and video are perfectly good and necessary journalism, the credit they are implicitly claiming for themselves for exposing this lie is totally undeserved.

That’s because independent journalists – the kind who question rather than mindlessly repeat government claims and are therefore mocked and marginalized and kept off mainstream television – used exactly this same evidence on the day of the incident to debunk the lies being told by Rubio, Pompeo, Bolton and CNN."
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 11, 2019, 03:10:50 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OedkyxEqtA
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 11, 2019, 03:55:22 AM
It's really never ending .. more from Greewald (not news to me)

Quote
Equally false is the widespread, popular media claim that Maduro has refused to allow any humanitarian aid to enter Venezuela. That, too, is an outright lie. The Venezuelan government has allowed substantial amounts of aid into their country from countries that have not threatened to overthrow the President with an external coup;

Maduro has only blocked trucks and planes from entering that come from those countries (the U.S, Brazil, Colombia) that have been threatening Venezuela. something any country would do.

Indeed, both the Red Cross and the United Nations expressed concerns about “humanitarian aid” from the U.S. on the ground that it was a pretext for regime change and would politicize humanitarian aid).
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on March 11, 2019, 07:39:52 AM
Today, two fact-check reports were published, both about the burning of humanitarian aid trucks at the Venezuelan border during the protests on February 23.

One is from the New York Times :

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/10/world/americas/venezuela-aid-fire-video.html

Quote
Unpublished footage obtained by The New York Times and previously released tapes — including footage released by the Colombian government, which has blamed Mr. Maduro for the fire — allowed for a reconstruction of the incident. It suggests that a Molotov cocktail thrown by an antigovernment protester was the most likely trigger for the blaze.

and one part of a wider open-source investigation of the Feb 23 protests by Bellingcat :

https://www.bellingcat.com/news/americas/2019/03/10/fire-on-the-border-analyzing-venezuelas-february-23-border-clashes/

Quote
The open source evidence examined for this article is not complete: it does not show the moment of ignition. For this reason, it is not possible to make a definitive determination regarding the cause of the fire. However, the available evidence does suggest the possibility that the fire was started when a Molotov cocktail thrown by a man at the police missed its mark.

Both reports are based on open-source data (social media videos mostly) and both contradict the statements from high-ranking Trump administration officials that Maduro's people were the cause of the fire.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on March 11, 2019, 07:45:47 AM
Today, two fact-check reports were published, both about the burning of humanitarian aid trucks at the Venezuelan border during the protests on February 23.

One is from the New York Times :

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/10/world/americas/venezuela-aid-fire-video.html

Quote
Unpublished footage obtained by The New York Times and previously released tapes — including footage released by the Colombian government, which has blamed Mr. Maduro for the fire — allowed for a reconstruction of the incident. It suggests that a Molotov cocktail thrown by an antigovernment protester was the most likely trigger for the blaze.

and one part of a wider open-source investigation of the Feb 23 protests by Bellingcat :

https://www.bellingcat.com/news/americas/2019/03/10/fire-on-the-border-analyzing-venezuelas-february-23-border-clashes/

Quote
The open source evidence examined for this article is not complete: it does not show the moment of ignition. For this reason, it is not possible to make a definitive determination regarding the cause of the fire. However, the available evidence does suggest the possibility that the fire was started when a Molotov cocktail thrown by a man at the police missed its mark.

Both reports are based on open-source data (social media videos mostly) and both contradict the statements from Trump administration officials like this one :

(https://www.strategic-culture.org/images/myfls/2019/gp28021902.jpg)

which suggested that Maduro's people caused the fire.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on March 11, 2019, 09:24:04 AM
Quote
<It is entirely irrelevant to what the real point is, so it doesn't matter whether I agree or not. I do however agree that sanctions need to be lifted, and everyone needs to leave Venezuela alone to deal with its issues, and not overtly or covertly push for regime changes; N.>

Thank you for your opinion.

Personally, I'm with the 50 countries that call for UN supervised free and fair elections in Venezuela.

If Maduro is confident that he has the majority vote, he should not have any problem with that.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Neven on March 11, 2019, 09:46:36 AM
Yes, it has been clear that you're with Trump's 'Coalition of the Willing', Rob:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjnsiS4YIgg

Quote
SHARMINI PERIES: It’s The Real News Network. I’m Sharmini Peries, coming to you from Baltimore.

A favorite talking point of those who support the Trump administration’s policies towards Venezuela <looking at you again, Rob! N.> is that 50 countries have recognized the opposition leader Juan Guaido as the interim president of Venezuela, and this includes countries like Canada and Europe. So people are very confused. When it is pointed out that 50 out of the 195 countries is only about 1/4 of the world’s countries, and less than 20 percent of the world’s population, the Trump administration argues that these are the world’s main democracies that support Guaido.

Part of the reason for assembling this coalition of countries that are willing to recognize the parallel government in Venezuela is to provide legitimacy to the Trump administration’s effort to oust Nicolas Maduro, the elected president of Venezuela. In some ways, this is similar to the coalition of the willing that President George W. Bush assembled to oust Saddam Hussein from Iraq. But who is this anti-Maduro coalition of the willing? And why are they supporting Trump?

Well, to discuss all of this with me today I’m joined by Mark Weisbrot. And he’s joining us from Washington, DC, where he is the co-director of the Center for Economic and Policy Research. Thanks for joining us, Mark.

Quote
MARK WEISBROT: Yes. Well, first I want to emphasize that even if these were the most wonderful governments in the world, there’s no legitimacy to the effort to overthrow the Venezuelan government. And that’s because, first of all, the sanctions that they’re using are illegal. They’re illegal under the Charter of the Organization of American States. They’re illegal under the Charter of the United Nations. And they are illegal under various conventions that these countries, and the United States in particular, have signed. So it wouldn’t be legitimate even if they had only the best countries, and even if they had a majority of countries. It’s just, it’s just illegal. And of course it’s immoral, because they’re using collective punishment against the population of Venezuela by depriving them of medicine and food and other essential goods.

(...)

And so I think they generally–they don’t have an independent foreign policy most of the time, you know, from the United States, Europe in the whole post-World War II period, but on Latin America especially they tend to go along with the U.S.

(...)

But Europe is, you know, it’s problematic. A lot of people see Europe as more progressive than the U.S. And of course it is in terms of healthcare, and education, and internally. But on foreign policy, the general rule–and there are exceptions–but the general rule is they go with the U.S. And a lot of that is because they’re rich countries, and they control the major institutions of global governance. The IMF, the World Bank, the World Trade Organization.

(...)

And so that’s how they see the world; their leaders, not necessarily the people. And so it’s not really that surprising, although this is kind of an extreme move. I mean, recognizing Guaido, this is outside the bounds of any kind of diplomatic protocol. You don’t get to choose the president of another country, normally. And it also, as I’ve said before, and a lot of people don’t know this, the recognition of Guaido automatically imposed a trade embargo on Venezuela, because the government can–which is exporting, getting all the foreign exchange of the country and everything you need for food and medicine, comes from the oil sales. The government can’t sell that oil in about three quarters of its markets once the Guaido government is recognized by these countries as the legitimate recipient of any oil sales for the government. So that’s why, you know, things are going to get drastically worse, even worse, very soon there.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on March 11, 2019, 09:59:41 AM
Yes, it has been clear that you're with Trump's 'Coalition of the Willing', Rob:

Personally, I'm with the 50 countries that call for UN supervised free and fair elections in Venezuela.

And who are you with ?
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Neven on March 11, 2019, 10:17:44 AM
I'm with nobody.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 11, 2019, 03:33:05 PM
Yes, it has been clear that you're with Trump's 'Coalition of the Willing', Rob:

Personally, I'm with the 50 countries that call for UN supervised free and fair elections in Venezuela.

Are you sure all 55 countries are calling for that? The United States is not, at least I have not seen Trump or anyone else ask for that.

Quote
And who are you with ?

With the United Nations charter, the UN Declaration of Human Rights, the US Constitution and the Venezuelan Constitution and International Laws and Treaties, and the right of the Venezuelans to determine their own future and make their own decisions with anyone else telling them what to do and how to do it or when to do it. 

Which much places me with the clear 75-80% majority. Seems like I am the traditionalist conservative populist now. :)
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 12, 2019, 05:59:20 AM
Big Oil Controls the World | Interview with Greg Palast with only 9,996 views

breaking the set on RT
Published on 27 Mar 2013

Abby Martin talks to investigative journalist, Greg Palast, about US interests in a post-Chavez Venezuela, and how 'Big Oil' could shape future policy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95UvGZ6jIyU

2013 right - in the middle of the Obama Administration, the same Administration that began placing sanctions and barriers upon Venezuela and manipulating the global Oil price to push it down and financially strangle the Maduro Govts ability to pay it's bills etc and which has subsequently caused the humanitarian and political crisis in Venezuela today.   

[quoting]

The Koch brothers are the impetus behind the XL pipeline.

"It's true that they have their
correctly denied that they have no
direct ownership of the pipeline or its
oil but why is the oil going all the way
from Canada all the way out to Houston
why are we taking oil from Canada to
Houston after all Texas has some oil the
answer is is that the Koch brothers
refinery is at the end of the Excel
pipeline the Flint Hills refinery
that's
where most of the oil will end up

Right now they have to buy their oil from
Venezuela the heavy oil that Hugo Chavez
is government produced and Chavez that
wouldn't give it away the Venezuelan oil
cost about a hundred and one dollars a
barrel - it's $33 a barrel cheaper to
bring in that glop that melted liquid
filthy crud asphalt that would come down
from melting the Canadian tar sands
through the XL pipeline the only reason
America is facing a 2,000 mile toxic
slash across its belly is so that the
Koch brothers can save 33 bucks a barrel
and it adds up it's about 2 billion plus
a year for them to have the XL pipeline
bring in the crud from Canada rather than
the much much less polluting oil from Venezuela


Venezuelan oil has about one-fifth of
the sulphur of the Canadian tar sands
so
we'd be burning up this planet in fact
of all that tar sands oil comes down to
the coke refinery they'll save 2 billion
dollars a year but the planet
temperature in of the the entire planets
temperature will rise by about one
degree Fahrenheit "

[end quote]
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 12, 2019, 06:13:34 AM
see https://www.gregpalast.com

Big Oil Controls the World | Interview with Greg Palast with only 9,996 views

breaking the set on RT
Published on 27 Mar 2013

Abby Martin talks to investigative journalist, Greg Palast, about US interests in a post-Chavez Venezuela, and how 'Big Oil' could shape future policy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95UvGZ6jIyU

2013 right - in the middle of the Obama Administration, the same Administration that began placing sanctions and barriers upon Venezuela and manipulating the global Oil price to push it down and financially strangle the Maduro Govts ability to pay it's bills etc and which has subsequently caused the humanitarian and political crisis in Venezuela today.   

The XL pipeline is still not delivering Canadian Tars sands oil to the Koch Bros refinery 5 years later.

[quoting]
The Koch brothers are the impetus behind the XL pipeline.

"It's true that they have their
correctly denied that they have no
direct ownership of the pipeline or its
oil but why is the oil going all the way
from Canada all the way out to Houston
why are we taking oil from Canada to
Houston after all Texas has some oil the
answer is is that the Koch brothers
refinery is at the end of the Excel
pipeline the Flint Hills refinery
that's
where most of the oil will end up

Right now they have to buy their oil from
Venezuela the heavy oil that Hugo Chavez
is government produced and Chavez that
wouldn't give it away the Venezuelan oil
cost about a hundred and one dollars a
barrel - it's $33 a barrel cheaper to
bring in that glop that melted liquid
filthy crud asphalt that would come down
from melting the Canadian tar sands
through the XL pipeline the only reason
America is facing a 2,000 mile toxic
slash across its belly is so that the
Koch brothers can save 33 bucks a barrel
and it adds up it's about 2 billion plus
a year for them to have the XL pipeline
bring in the crud from Canada rather than
the much much less polluting oil from Venezuela


Venezuelan oil has about one-fifth of
the sulphur of the Canadian tar sands
so
we'd be burning up this planet in fact
of all that tar sands oil comes down to
the coke refinery they'll save 2 billion
dollars a year but the planet
temperature in of the the entire planets
temperature will rise by about one
degree Fahrenheit "

[end quote]
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 12, 2019, 07:14:43 AM
    The U.S. will withdraw all remaining personnel from @usembassyve this week. This decision reflects the deteriorating situation in #Venezuela as well as the conclusion that the presence of U.S. diplomatic staff at the embassy has become a constraint on U.S. policy.
    — Secretary Pompeo (@SecPompeo) March 12, 2019
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 12, 2019, 03:27:38 PM
 US diplomats are undermining Venezuelan peace and stability, the nation’s Foreign Minister Jorge Arreaza said, setting a deadline for them to vacate the embassy in Caracas. Washington vowed to hurry the evacuation of its mission.

American diplomats must “abandon Venezuelan territory in the next 72 hours,”
with the countdown starting at the “zero hour” on Tuesday, Arreaza wrote on Twitter.

    Official Communiqué on the decision by the Bolivarian Government of Venezuela terminating the conversations with the US for the establishment of interest sections. The US diplomatic personnel must abandon Venezuelan territory in the next 72 hours: pic.twitter.com/FTPnXiFqU1
    — Jorge Arreaza M (@jaarreaza) March 12, 2019

Venezuela had earlier demanded that Washington clear the embassy in Caracas of any remaining personnel. The presence of American diplomats “entails risks to the country’s peace, integrity and stability,” the minister explained.

He accused the US of threatening the nation with military intervention and said that officials in Washington “have systematically lied to the world regarding Venezuelan reality.”

At the same time, Jorge Arreaza stressed that Venezuela stands ready to restart dialogue with the US, as long as the communication is based on “equality and mutual respect.” 

https://www.rt.com/news/453626-us-embassy-caracas-deadline/

fyi  Foreign Minister Jorge Arreaza is the son in law of former President Hugo Chavez
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 13, 2019, 06:28:12 AM
Yes, it has been clear that you're with Trump's 'Coalition of the Willing', Rob:

Personally, I'm with the 50 countries that call for UN supervised free and fair elections in Venezuela.

And who are you with ?

Last time there was an election the Opposition demanded the UN not attend and observe the election.

The Opposition boycotted the elections - told people not to vote.

Opposition supporting groups engaged in massive violence at polling stations on the day and leading up to the elections. The Govt military and Police did not do such things.

Opposition protests and rallies continued throughout the election campaign period calling for the people to boycott the election to make it null and void.

Millions turned out anyway and voted for and against Maduro, as is their want - they Voted anyway.

There is a free press in Venezuela who together voiced major opposition to Maduro being re-elected - the people voted otherwise by a clear majority.

The Govt repeatedly requested for many months starting in 2016 the UN come and supervise / observe the elections in 2017 but a few days beforehand they refused and gave no reasons publicly.

The UN Rapporteur (already posted on these pages several times) has said there are no major human rights or unfair electoral issues in Venezuela. The Govt is legitimate.

The multinational team to did supervise observe the last elections all said there were no unfairness issues during the election of Maduro as President. Three candidates stood and Maduro won fair and square with a clear majority (unlike Donald Trump and unlike the institutional gerrymandering and voter fraud perpetrated by both the Democrats and GOP)   

The Election Commission of Venezuela declared the election as free and fair. Lawsuits against the results have not been upheld by the Venezuelan Judiciary or the High Court.

The last time there was an elction for the National Assmebly, that being in 2015, the electiosn were declared free and fair and legitiamte.

In that election it was the Opposition who won a  clear majority of seats in the national Assembly.

It was that election that Guaido was elected to his seat --- in an Assembly with a rotating "president" position which he only was assigned last year. 

Four winners of seats in that election were declared null and void and new elections for those seats were legally ordered to take place. The reason was the voting was not free and fair but had been manipulated by the Opposition parties on the ground.  Those 4 elections were corrupt. They have still not been re-run because the National Assembly refused to take the proper actions to make that happen under the Constitution. The NA acted against the Venezuela Constitution and the High court acted accordingly. Then it reversed it;s decision to allay fears of an all out violence on the streets. 

Evidence of these summaries have been posted to this very thread numerous times. Why do people chose to ignore it and not read and not understand such complex Historical issues that brought us to today?

Since 2015 this National Assembly has not debated or passed one N.A. Bill into Law. Not one. It was so dysfunctional that it was legally disbanded and all it's powers taken away because of this and other disruptive/ilegal activities.  The N.A.. is not doing the work they were elected to do.

So where was the problem of or evidence for unfree and unfair elections in 2015? Apart from 4 seats there was none.

The Opposition Coalition of multiple parties actually won that election with a powerful Majority. So where is the corruption? Where is the unfairness? The UN also observed these elections and there was no major problem. The OAS also observed, no problems declared. 

The Maduro 'Chavista" Govt did not win the election - they did not declare martial law, suspend the Constitution nor overturn that election result.

Where is the unfree and unfair complaints about that 2015 election won by the Opposition parties when Guaido won his seat?

Where is the evidence that the 2017 Election of Maduro as the President was corrupted?

If any nation needs to attend to it's corrupted electoral system it would be the United States - the laughing stock of the advanced economies and the western world.

If any nation was overdue for a Coup or a popular revolt on the streets because of it's corrupt Judicial System, it's dysfunctional and corrupted Electoral System, it's corrupt media system, it's non-stop illegal actions in the world and at home, it's illegal breaches of the United nations Charter, it's pathetic "national assembly" being both Houses of Congress, and it's Presidency it would be the nation currently led by Donald Trump.

But no, the ex-pat from the Netherlands doesn't complain about the acts of the invading right wing Nazis in his old country, no he blames the USSR/Russians instead. He doesn't care about the lying decietful Neo-Nazi right wing neo-liberal predatory thieving capitalist ideologues currently running his own adopted country and presenting the nightly news - while millions of children go hungry, others starve or are forced to eat out of garbage bins daily - or get arrested in order to survive!

How do people get so tied up in knots with such mental gymnastics of crying crocodile tears over Venezuela's situation?  ( A rhetorical question - as I already know the answers for this. )
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 13, 2019, 06:39:22 AM
 Pompeo seeks to recruit top world oil execs to promote US foreign policy
Published time: 13 Mar, 2019
https://www.rt.com/usa/453676-pompeo-oil-foreign-policy/

Quote
US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo has sought to recruit some of the top oil industry guns to serve as Washington's foreign policy tools to crack down on "bad actors" like Venezuela, Russia and Iran.

Addressing the members of IHS Markit's CERAWeek annual energy conference in Houston, Texas, on Tuesday, Pompeo has divulged what has long been an open secret – that the US is willing to use all its political clout to propel its economic interests and vice versa.

Pompeo said that American shale oil and natural gas should become instruments to "strengthen" the US' "hand in foreign policy."

At the same time, Washington takes pains to squeeze out Iran's oil industry by pushing allies to cut their imports under threat of secondary sanctions. The ultimate goal here is to kill off Iran's crude exports completely, Pompeo reaffirmed.

"We're committed to bringing Iranian crude oil exports to zero as quickly as market conditions will permit," he said.

"We need to roll up our sleeves and compete – by facilitating investment, encouraging partners to buy from us, and by punishing bad actors."

One of the hindrances to the US energy dominance in Europe is Russia, with the $11 billion NordStream 2 pipeline, which is set to deliver gas to European consumers below the Baltic Sea, and is a thorn in Washington's eye. While the Trump administration's attempts to persuade Berlin to ditch the project in favor of more expensive American liquefied natural gas (LNG) have so far fallen flat, it has not given up on its efforts to derail the Russian pipeline.

"We don't want our European allies hooked on Russian gas through the NordStream 2 project, any more than we ourselves want to be dependent on Venezuelan oil supplies," Pompeo said just a day after US Energy Secretary Rick Perry confirmed that the US is mulling sanctions on the project.

Pompeo further alleged that Russia's involvement in the Ukraine conflict is a covert attempt to gain access to Ukrainian natural resources, including oil and gas reserves.

How many lies do they need to tell before the people stop believing them?

Quote
Venezuela, Iran may be crushed by sanctions, but oil market has not been
Published Mon, Mar 11 2019
Key Points
    The sanctioning of two OPEC members — Iran and Venezuela — by the Trump administration has caused some ripples in the oil market, but not the type of shortages for consumers that might have occurred.
    One big reason is that U.S. production continues to grow, and for every barrel displaced, a new one comes on line.
    U.S. output is now at 12.1 million barrels a day, up more than 1 million from this time last year, and IHS Markit expects it to be 13 million by the end of the year.

 “I think it’s obvious Iranian sanctions, either under Obama or Trump, would not work without the increase of U.S. production,” said Yergin. “Although it’s not the same grade of oil, it would have been very difficult to do that in the market.”

Yergin said he expects the U.S. to become a net exporter on a consistent basis within the next two to three years, something the U.S. has not been since the late 1940s.

“It’s [providing] the flexibility on sanctions. It also puts something very big on the table for the U.S.-Chinese trade negotiations,” said Yergin,

Yergin said the U.S. industry is now focused on ways to export more oil and expand Texan ports. “This is a dramatic reshaping of global trade flows,” he said.
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/11/venezuela-iran-may-be-crushed-by-sanctions-but-oil-market-has-not.html

Oh do wake up.

Secretary Pompeo will present a Special Keynote address on The Role of Energy in 21st Century Global Politics on Tuesday, March 12 at 6:00 PM.
https://ceraweek.com/index.html

Yesterday - hard not to smile, hard to wipe that smirk off his lying face.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhcl8ON1axI
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on March 13, 2019, 10:20:08 AM
But no, the ex-pat from the Netherlands doesn't complain about the acts of the invading right wing Nazis in his old country, no he blames the USSR/Russians instead. He doesn't care about the lying decietful Neo-Nazi right wing neo-liberal predatory thieving capitalist ideologues currently running his own adopted country and presenting the nightly news - while millions of children go hungry, others starve or are forced to eat out of garbage bins daily - or get arrested in order to survive!

Normally I ignore the Lurk troll.

But sometimes his verbal venom cracks me up.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on March 13, 2019, 10:26:21 AM
But no, the ex-pat from the Netherlands doesn't complain about the acts of the invading right wing Nazis in his old country, no he blames the USSR/Russians instead. He doesn't care about the lying decietful Neo-Nazi right wing neo-liberal predatory thieving capitalist ideologues currently running his own adopted country and presenting the nightly news - while millions of children go hungry, others starve or are forced to eat out of garbage bins daily - or get arrested in order to survive!

Normally I ignore the Lurk troll.

But sometimes his verbal venom cracks me up.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on March 14, 2019, 03:44:37 AM
Greenwald rips US media for warmongering lies:

Is that the same Glenn Greenwald who gets paid more than half a million per year by an Ebay billionaire, and as a classic display of the RED-BROWN alliance frequently appears on Fox News with Tucker's white supremacy show ?

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dw66EYiX0AABJ-A.jpg)

THAT Glenn Greenwald ?
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on March 14, 2019, 07:28:45 AM
Contrary to Glenn Greenwald, who aggressively blames US media for spreading mis-information, here is a much more balanced report from TYT, which also rightfully so complements the New York Times for their investigation and their report :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icUI8BfGw1E



Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on March 14, 2019, 08:20:23 AM
After accusing the US of bringing down the Venezuelan grid with a cyber attack, now the Maduro government found another cause :

https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/13/americas/venezuela-blackout-restored-intl/index.html

Quote
The Information Minister used to the press conference to accuse supporters of the opposition leader, and Venezuela's self-declared interim president, Juan Guaido, of trying to bring down the electrical grid by plugging in all their appliances.

You can't make this stuff up, folks.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Neven on March 14, 2019, 09:23:49 AM
You can't make this stuff up, folks.

Just like Russian cyber attacks on electric utilities and election committees! When Maduro says it, you see through it. When corporate US media and the Pentagon say it, you immediately and unquestioningly believe it. Facts! ;D
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 14, 2019, 09:30:31 AM
which also rightfully so complements the New York Times for their investigation and their report :

2 weeks late!

Yay NYTs after weeks of fake news about the 23rd they finally print something accurate..... mind you this is after several months of other fake news and disinformation ... yay NYTs

Buy a subscription Rob 

Make a donation to Bellingcat, AIPAC and the GOP while you're at it.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Neven on March 14, 2019, 10:57:32 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATiJxCMtdkw

Quote
And when it comes to what you ask about the internal situation, again, it is very clear that anybody who has the notion of national sovereignty, that a foreign intervention such as the one that Mr. Guaido is requesting, must be opposed. But on the other hand, we are also in a day-to-day reality. Venezuela is undergoing a very serious economic and social crisis that has been made worse by the sanctions that the U.S. administration has been imposing in an increasing manner since August 2017.

So the problem is that the longer this crisis and the status quo of this duality of power and the power struggle that is going on in the country, the longer this crisis lasts, the more the destructive or disruptive effect of these sanctions will affect Venezuelan people. And this is something that, again, I try to raise awareness about. The imposition of sanctions will not precipitate the collapse of the Venezuelan institutions, leading, as it is expected by the U.S., to Mr. Guaido assuming the presidency. As we have seen, Venezuelan political reality is much more complex, and it is obvious that to get out of this crisis, at least the two camps—you know, the government and Mr. Guaido; at least Chavismo and its historic opposition—will have to gather around the table and try to negotiate or agree some sort of political Venezuelan internal way out of the crisis.

And the fastest, the quickest that we get to that negotiating point, the better it will be for the Venezuelan people, because again, unfortunately, the U.S. administration has made it clear that they will keep increasing the pressure on the Venezuelan people, and more sanctions are to be expected. So again, this is a very, very dangerous situation for the Venezuelan people, who can be, you know, potentially deprived of having access to food or to medicines that already can be in short supply in some areas of the country. But at least as of today you can have access to food in Caracas, for instance, if you have the money to buy it. What will happen if the U.S. administration sanctions or punishes foreign banks that just engage in trade banking with Venezuela? So Venezuela will not be able even to purchase the food it requires? Again, this is extremely serious, extremely dangerous. And again, the only rational way of addressing it is trying to create conditions first, and then try to reach a negotiated deal out of the crisis.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on March 15, 2019, 08:34:24 AM
Washington post reports :

Maduro’s muscle: Politically backed motorcycle gangs known as 'colectivos' are the enforcers for Venezuela’s authoritarian leader

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the_americas/maduros-muscle-politically-backed-motorcycle-gangs-known-as-colectivos-are-the-enforcers-for-venezuelas-authoritarian-leader/2019/03/13/2242068c-4452-11e9-94ab-d2dda3c0df52_story.html?utm_term=.42dd21e8acca

Quote
The attack on Sunday was a chilling sign of how President Nicolás Maduro is increasingly relying on paramilitary groups as he clings to power. This week, he publicly urged the motorcycle-riding “colectivos” to intensify their efforts, as the country teetered on the edge of economic collapse and a U.S.-backed opposition movement pressed for his ouster. 

And now it looks like this is what we will be getting in the US as well.
Trump posts :

Quote
"I have the support of the police, the support of the military, the support of Bikers for Trump -- I have tough people, but they don't play it tough until they go to a certain point and then it would be very, very bad."

Just like Putin and his Night Wolves.

These autocrats are all alike.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on March 15, 2019, 09:08:13 AM
For those of us concerned that the US would be 'taking' Venezuelan oil, here are the results from the last couple of weeks :

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=W_EPC0_IM0_NUS-NVE_MBBLD&f=W

So, no. The US is not 'taking' Venezuelan oil now at all.
In fact it is at an all-time low since the January sanctions.

Maduro : The imperialist US is after our oil !

US : OK, we'll stop buying it then.

Maduro : The imperialist US is killing Venezuela with their sanctions !

US : wait, what ?
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 18, 2019, 05:51:17 AM
Another Independent Journalist Exposes U.S. News Venezuela Propaganda w/Eva Bartlett

35 minutes review. now 506,000 subscribers - added 8,000 in less than a week.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZ7S2sXWWps
Quote
Comments
Let venezuela handle its own country. #handsoffvenezuala #fomentingdiscord

Thank you for giving Eva so much air time. She is one of the few honest journalists left. Do not trust your government!

Damn lefty reporters with their facts and such.

"I have certain rules I live by. My first rule, I don't believe anything the government tells me. Nothing. ZERO!" -George Carlin

Quote
8:35
"well who did the attack on Venezuela's electrical grid? Right, it wasn't like yeah it might be a
worn down grid and they have been told they have power outages and they fix them in two hours, they fix them but the whole grid was down and it was attacked repeatedly and stations were physically attacked. So this is not a case of infrastructure failing. This is a premeditated attack that I know max Blumenthal has written about. The fact that this was already detailed years prior that the U.S. saw this as a way to put even more pressure on the population in Venezuela in order to turn against the government. "
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 19, 2019, 03:32:49 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjVHUEI_0-o


03:13
then came the sanctions which are harsh
03:17
brutal devastating the population and
03:21
again I quote Rodriguez the chief opposition
03:25
economist and a serious economist he
03:28
points out that the sanctions have
03:31
turned a crisis into a humanitarian
03:34
catastrophe and by now the latest
03:37
sanctions literally a bar the government
03:40
from almost any resources it's an effort
03:43
to starve the population into submission



04:01
the media again for ever since the
04:04
beginning of the Chavez years the media
04:08
have been virtually an open voice for
04:11
the anti chavez opposition in ways that
04:15
are almost unimaginable so
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 20, 2019, 03:44:11 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjiHWiHMSn4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nA_wrbdC_r0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuuhsqA95iA
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 20, 2019, 06:16:57 AM
Journalist Glenn Greenwald, who has been an outspoken critic of Bolsonaro and who lives in Brazil, tweeted on Monday that during his time reporting on the infamous Edward Snowden files, he was repeatedly "warned" that the CIA's largest permanent presence is in Brazil due to the intelligence agency's Cold War activities, including its role in helping to overthrow Brazil's democratically elected government in 1964.

    During the Snowden reporting, I was repeatedly told/warned that CIA's largest permanent presence is in Brazil (due to Cold War roots when CIA helped overthrow Brazil's democratically elected government & then propped up the resulting military regime). It's worse now:
https://t.co/8TTnthrEeL
    — Glenn Greenwald (@ggreenwald) March 18, 2019
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: sidd on March 21, 2019, 11:05:12 PM
Ambani(Mukesh) cocks a snook at sanctions: Reliance still trading with VZ thru EU and from IN

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-politics-india-oil/reliance-selling-fuels-from-india-to-venezuela-to-avoid-u-s-sanctions-idUSKCN1R12VI

sidd
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 22, 2019, 04:35:14 AM
Mirroring the right wing racist CIA/Bolton backed corrupt Govt in Brazil ....

 ‘Armed terrorist cell’: Venezuela’s Interior Minister confirms arrest of Guaido’s aide
Published time: 21 Mar, 2019

 Venezuela’s Interior Minister has confirmed the arrest of self-proclaimed ‘interim president’ Juan Guaido’s chief of staff. The opposition claims he was ‘kidnapped’ while authorities say he was the leader of a ‘terrorist cell.’

Roberto Marrero was taken into custody on Thursday as part of the government raid against a “terrorist cell” that plotted to carry out attacks against top Venezuelan politicians, the Minister of the Interior, Justice and Peace, Néstor Reverol, said in a statement.

“Together with the Public Prosecutor's Office, the investigations led to the detention of the citizen, Roberto Eugenio Marrero Borgas, who is directly responsible for the organization of criminal groups,” he said.

The government also released images of two rifles allegedly seized by the Venezuelan Bolivarian National Intelligence Service (SEBIN) during the raid on Marrero’s house.

    Maduro has made another big mistake. The illegitimate arrest of Roberto Marrero, Interim President Juan Guaidó’s aide, will not go unanswered. He should be released immediately and his safety guaranteed.
    — John Bolton (@AmbJohnBolton) March 21, 2019

https://www.rt.com/news/454445-venezuela-terrorist-cell-guaido-aide/

tick tick tick
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on March 23, 2019, 08:07:04 AM
There are at least three FACTS about Venezuela that many of you guys here don't seem to get :

1) Venezuela is bankrupt.

Venezuela's foreign currency bonds trade at "RD" (Restricted Default) which is just one tick above Bankruptcy.
http://cbonds.com/countries/Venezuela-bond
These bonds were trading 20 cts on the dollar as of Dec 2018, which means that investors don't expect to get more than 20 cts back for every dollar invested.

In fact, Bankruptcy status would be better, because then there would be some sort of debt restructuring plan. That's why these bonds showed an up-tick in January when the US announced sanctions against Venezuela's oil industry. Here for example is are some bonds that mature in 2020 :
https://www.bourse.lu/security/USP97475AG56/94852

Venezuela is trading below "junk" rating, but hey, if you think there is nothing wrong with the Venezuelan economy, by all means, BUY these bonds. Next year when they mature, and Maduro pays the full dollar amount back to you, you will make a killing !

For the rest of us, we understand that Maduro is defaulting on his dollar bonds, effectively stealing from foreign investors, and we see the writing on the wall, since we pay attention to stuff like this :
https://nypost.com/2019/02/01/venezuelas-maduro-to-sell-gold-reserves-to-prop-up-regime/

Maduro is so desperate for cash that he is starting to sell the gold from the central bank.

That's a sure sign your country is done for, financially.

2) People are starving.

None of you guys seem to understand the human suffering.

You let Jimmy Dore say that life is Venezuela is "normal" and Max Blumenthal shops on a dollar store in Caracas, so all must be nice and dandy.

Yet three million Venezuelans left the country already, and if nothing changes, the UN expects another 2 million refugees out of Venezuela.

That would rival the refugee crisis from Syria, folks.

And the country who took in the bulk of Venezuelan refugees ? Colombia.
While Trump wants to build a wall, Colombia kept its borders open.

And Colombians are doing everything they can to help their fellow Venezuelans.

This report gave me hope :

https://youtu.be/NU0RqwweuWY

3) Maduro is done for.

He led the country into a financial crisis, an economic crisis, a humanitarian crisis, and a political crisis.

Just think about it : If you drove the economy of your country into the ground like Maduro just did, and millions of your citizens are leaving your country because they are starving, and you have violated the constitution of your predecessor (Hugo Chavez) at least THREE times, and rigged the elections multiple times, while polls show that 80% of the people of your country want you OUT, then wouldn't you realize that maybe, just maybe, it's time for somebody else to take over ?

Any other leader would voluntarily resign and call for new elections.

It's time for Maduro to realize that it is time to go.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: b_lumenkraft on March 23, 2019, 10:15:27 AM
All three arguments are also true for many other countries in the world.

Rob, what is your answer to why these countries are not even mentioned in American media. And why doesn't the US feel responsible for those?

Edit: Let me add for spite that argument 3 applies to the US and Trump. :)
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on March 24, 2019, 08:22:49 AM
All three arguments are also true for many other countries in the world.

Rob, what is your answer to why these countries are not even mentioned in American media.
And why doesn't the US feel responsible for those?

Maybe because there are no other countries in such bad shape that they :

- are so bankrupt that they not only default on their foreign debt but also have 1,000,000 % inflation on their local currency and have to sell the gold from their central bank just to stay afloat, AND
- have already created 3 million refugees with 2 million more to come this year AND
- has a constitutional political crisis confronting a dictator that does not want to step down and issue free and fair elections.

Let me know if you can think of another country that has has all three crisis at this time.

Quote
Edit: Let me add for spite that argument 3 applies to the US and Trump. :)

Lol  :)
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 24, 2019, 09:03:32 AM
“American imperialists want to kill me. We just exposed the plan that the devil's puppet [Juan Guaido] personally directed to kill me,” President Nicolas Maduro told his supporters on Saturday, claiming his government has “evidence” on the opposition’s alleged criminal activities.

Roberto Marrero, chief of staff to the US-backed opposition leader Guaido, conspired with his boss to finance terrorist acts in Venezuela, Communications Minister Jorge Rodriguez told the nation on Saturday, accusing the arrested members of the opposition of trafficking hitmen from Central America.

“Assassins and paramilitaries have been recruited using large amounts of money so that they can be sent to Colombia to receive training,” he said. “Marrero was involved in contracting people from Guatemala and Colombia to comply with the recruitment and training plan for assassins.”

Information gathered from Marrero’s cell phone indicates that the opposition was planning to put together eight to 10 hit teams, each comprising at least eight mercenaries, to carry out assassinations, sabotage and acts of terrorism against government institutions in Venezuela.

    Sobre denuncia anterior informamos que fue capturado jefe paramilitar de los más buscados de Colombia:Wilfrido Torres Gómez, alias Neco. Es uno de los jefes de sicarios ingresados x la ultraderecha desde Colombia. Solicitado con código azul x Interpol x homicidio y sicariato pic.twitter.com/ZK6V2FWn1q
    — Jorge Rodríguez (@jorgerpsuv) March 23, 2019

At least 60 people had received special paramilitary training in Colombia and half of them have allegedly already infiltrated Venezuela, following the failed attempt to bring in the so-called humanitarian convoys from the US on February 23.

“At least 30 paramilitaries hired from El Salvador, Honduras or Guatemala –trained in Colombia– entered Venezuela. We are looking for them. We have already identified some,” he said on state television, showing screenshots from Marrero’s phone as proof and accusing the US of running the operation.

https://www.rt.com/news/454604-venezuela-guaido-maduro-assassination/ 
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: vox_mundi on March 25, 2019, 12:22:43 AM
Russian Troops Land in Caracas as US Considers Military Intervention in Venezuela   
https://thinkprogress.org/russian-troops-land-in-venezuela-as-us-considers-military-options-59acc24966d3/amp/

Nearly 100 Russian troops have reportedly landed in the Venezuelan capital of Caracas as the United States, which has hinted that a military option is “on the table,” continues to pressure the country’s president to step down.

Reuters reported Sunday that two Russian planes arrived in Caracas on Saturday, one of them thought to have carried Vasily Tonkoshkurov, chief of staff for Russian ground forces.

Moscow has vowed to step in and prevent “any provocations to shed blood.”

---------------------------

CIA Linked Plane Makes Brief Trip To Venezuela As American Diplomats Evacuate
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/26951/cia-linked-plane-makes-brief-trip-to-venezuela-as-american-diplomats-evacuate

Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 25, 2019, 02:05:58 AM
President Putin never struck me as someone like a Neville Chamberlain. Though I am still surprised by this move, especially if it escalates rapidly to several thousand troops, the airforce and S400s etc.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on March 25, 2019, 07:07:48 AM
Russian Troops Land in Caracas ...
https://thinkprogress.org/russian-troops-land-in-venezuela-as-us-considers-military-options-59acc24966d3/amp/

Moscow has vowed to step in ....

Imagine if that would have read as follows :

Quote
US Troops Land in Caracas ...
https://thinkprogress.org/us-troops-land-in-venezuela-as-russia-considers-military-options-59acc24966d3/amp/

Washington has vowed to step in ....

But now that it's Russia that's intervening in Venezuela, it's all OK ?

What happened to the cries to keep "Hands Off Venezuela !" ?

(https://cdni.rt.com/files/2019.03/l/5c953300dda4c810178b45d9.JPG)

Maduro :
Russia can send all the troops they want, and we will gladly pay them with oil.
But the US, NO ! Those imperialistic pigs have no place in Venezuela.
They are after our oil !

US: OK, we'll stop buying it then.

Maduro : The imperialistic pigs in the US are killing us with their sanctions !

US: Wait, What ?
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on March 25, 2019, 07:33:52 AM
Russian Troops Land in Caracas ...
https://thinkprogress.org/russian-troops-land-in-venezuela-as-us-considers-military-options-59acc24966d3/amp/

Moscow has vowed to step in ....

Imagine if that would have read as follows :

Quote
US Troops Land in Caracas ...
https://thinkprogress.org/us-troops-land-in-venezuela-as-russia-considers-military-options-59acc24966d3/amp/

Washington has vowed to step in ....

But now that it's Russia that's intervening in Venezuela, it's all OK ?

What happened to the cries to keep "Hands Off Venezuela !" ?

(https://cdni.rt.com/files/2019.03/l/5c953300dda4c810178b45d9.JPG)

Maduro :
Russia can send all the military troops they want, and we will gladly pay them with oil.
But the US, NO ! They cannot send a single grain of rice in humanitarian aid into Venezuela.
Those imperialists want to get our oil !

US: OK, we'll stop buying it then.

Maduro : The imperialistic pigs in the US are killing us with their sanctions !

US: Wait, What ?
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on March 25, 2019, 07:42:58 AM
Russian Troops Land in Caracas ...
https://thinkprogress.org/russian-troops-land-in-venezuela-as-us-considers-military-options-59acc24966d3/amp/

Moscow has vowed to step in ....

Imagine if that would have read as follows :

Quote
US Troops Land in Caracas ...
https://thinkprogress.org/us-troops-land-in-venezuela-as-russia-considers-military-options-59acc24966d3/amp/

Washington has vowed to step in ....

But now that it's Russia that's intervening in Venezuela, it's all OK ?

What happened to the cries to keep "Hands Off Venezuela !" ?

(https://cdni.rt.com/files/2019.03/l/5c953300dda4c810178b45d9.JPG)

Maduro :
Russia can send all the military troops they want, and we will gladly pay them with oil.
But the US, NO ! They cannot send a single grain of rice in humanitarian aid into Venezuela.
Those imperialists want to get our oil !

US: OK, we'll stop buying it then.

Maduro : The imperialistic pigs in the US are killing us with their sanctions !

US: Wait, What ?
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Neven on March 25, 2019, 10:01:23 AM
What happened to the cries to keep "Hands Off Venezuela !" ?

For the record, you can go back and see what I wrote:

Venezuela needs to be left alone by the US and Russia and everybody else, sanctions need to be lifted immediately, diplomacy restored, and the media needs to stop this excessively riling sensationalism, especially if it's promoting misinformation

But if I would absolutely have to choose, I would take the Russians over Pompeo, Bolton, Abrams and Trump. Besides, the USA has a long history of f***ing over the peoples of Latin America.

Either way, we wouldn't be talking about this if it weren't for the oil under Venezuela soil. Which should have been Rob's honest answer to b_lumenkraft's question.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on March 25, 2019, 10:07:16 AM
What happened to the cries to keep "Hands Off Venezuela !" ?

For the record, you can go back and see what I wrote:

Venezuela needs to be left alone by the US and Russia and everybody else, sanctions need to be lifted immediately, diplomacy restored, and the media needs to stop this excessively riling sensationalism, especially if it's promoting misinformation

But if I would absolutely have to choose, I would take the Russians over Pompeo, Bolton, Abrams and Trump. Besides, the USA has a long history of f***ing over the peoples of Latin America.

So, are you happy now that the Russians intervened militarily ?
And do you think the Russians are there to help the starving people of Venezuela ?

Or are they there to ensure that Venezuela's military doesn't fold over to Guaido,
so that Russia's share in Venezuela's oil production (as payment of debt) is still ensured ?
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on March 25, 2019, 10:11:57 AM
Either way, we wouldn't be talking about this if it weren't for the oil under Venezuela soil. Which should have been Rob's honest answer to b_lumenkraft's question.

My answer to b_lumenkraft was :

---
Maybe because there are no other countries in such bad shape that they :

- are so bankrupt that they not only default on their foreign debt but also have 1,000,000 % inflation on their local currency and have to sell the gold from their central bank just to stay afloat, AND
- have already created 3 million refugees with 2 million more to come this year AND
- has a constitutional political crisis confronting a dictator that does not want to step down and issue free and fair elections.

Let me know if you can think of another country that has has all three crisis at this time.
---

But since you brought it up again, Neven, can you think of any other country that just has the FIRST of these crisis ?
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Neven on March 25, 2019, 10:39:16 AM
But if I would absolutely have to choose, I would take the Russians over Pompeo, Bolton, Abrams and Trump. Besides, the USA has a long history of f***ing over the peoples of Latin America.

So, are you happy now that the Russians intervened militarily ?

No, because I didn't absolutely have to choose.

Quote
And do you think the Russians are there to help the starving people of Venezuela ?

No, they're there because of the oil, just like the Americans are there on behalf of concentrated wealth.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Neven on March 25, 2019, 10:40:49 AM
Either way, we wouldn't be talking about this if it weren't for the oil under Venezuela soil. Which should have been Rob's honest answer to b_lumenkraft's question.

My answer to b_lumenkraft was :

I know what your answer to b_lumenkraft was, and it wasn't an honest answer. The honest answer is: Because oil.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: b_lumenkraft on March 25, 2019, 11:09:38 AM
- are so bankrupt that they not only default on their foreign debt but also have 1,000,000 % inflation on their local currency and have to sell the gold from their central bank just to stay afloat,

Hyperinflation is not really a rare thing. >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwZ6B5kalbQ&t=90s

Quote
- have already created 3 million refugees with 2 million more to come this year

How do we contextualize these numbers, Rob? You need to take into account migration is not a rare thing either. If you can show me numbers that point out that there is a (sharp) rise in these numbers under Maduro that would be helpful for your argument.

Quote
- has a constitutional political crisis confronting a dictator that does not want to step down and issue free and fair elections.

Since the US is intervening in South America since the US is a thing, you can't make a case that this crisis is not caused or even orchestrated by US intervention in the past or today. Alternative history is cool for intellectual reasons, but cannot be an argument.

Quote
Let me know if you can think of another country that has had all three crisis at this time.

Generally speaking. many countries in the world are worse off than Venezuela. I fail to see why these three criteria are not arbitrary. This is why i reject the premise, those would justify intervention from the US.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 25, 2019, 04:10:16 PM
"We are strong, and we are many, and we will win this battle in the end. Stop the evil empire."

https://www.facebook.com/rogerwaters/videos/486413478562991/
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 25, 2019, 04:11:02 PM
"We are strong, and we are many, and we will win this battle in the end. Stop the evil empire."

https://www.facebook.com/rogerwaters/videos/486413478562991/
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: vox_mundi on March 25, 2019, 10:26:00 PM
President Putin never struck me as someone like a Neville Chamberlain. Though I am still surprised by this move, especially if it escalates rapidly to several thousand troops, the airforce and S400s etc.

Sorry, just S300s

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D2bp_3mXQAE4Qks.jpg)
https://twitter.com/ImageSatIntl/status/1109831650853171200/photo/1

Russian Mercenaries Reportedly Descend On Venezuela To Help Protect Maduro's Regime
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/26174/russian-mercenaries-reportedly-descend-on-venezuela-to-help-protect-maduros-regime

Russian Transport Aircraft Deliver Men And Materiel To Venezuela Direct From Syria
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/27143/russian-transport-aircraft-deliver-men-and-materiel-to-venezuela-direct-from-syria
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 26, 2019, 04:39:01 AM
 Over $30 billion of Venezuela’s assets stolen on ‘Trump’s orders’ – official
Published time: 25 Mar, 2019

“They have resorted to stealing the assets that Venezuela holds in different banks. This money is being confiscated at the request of the [US President Donald] Trump administration. Over $30 billion has been stolen in the past couple of months,” Rodriguez said on Saturday as cited by VTV state television.

The scheme was allegedly coordinated by US-backed opposition leader and self-proclaimed ‘interim president’ Juan Guaido, as well as his key aids – Leopoldo Lopez, and the recently detained Roberto Marrero, among others. Information gathered from Marrero’s cell phone indicates that Venezuelan lawyer Juan Planchart received some part of the stolen money, according to the minister.

https://www.rt.com/business/454675-30-billion-stolen-venezuela/
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on March 26, 2019, 05:50:57 AM
Either way, we wouldn't be talking about this if it weren't for the oil under Venezuela soil. Which should have been Rob's honest answer to b_lumenkraft's question.

My answer to b_lumenkraft was :

I know what your answer to b_lumenkraft was, and it wasn't an honest answer. The honest answer is: Because oil.

I know this is a favorite meme of several people here, but there is not much evidence for it.

For one, it doesn't make any logical sense at all.
After all, the US already was buying Venezuelan oil all along.
https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MTTIMUSVE1&f=M

Not much changed there as the US bought about 1/3rd of Venezuela's production since the 90's (even before Chavez) all the way until Jan this year, when Guido stepped forward. That's when the US along with 50+ other countries, like even Japan which usually remains neutral, finally picked sides.

So did that "because oil" reason also apply to Japan ?
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on March 26, 2019, 06:26:57 AM
Either way, we wouldn't be talking about this if it weren't for the oil under Venezuela soil. Which should have been Rob's honest answer to b_lumenkraft's question.

My answer to b_lumenkraft was :

I know what your answer to b_lumenkraft was, and it wasn't an honest answer. The honest answer is: Because oil.

I know this is a favorite meme of several people here, but there is not much evidence for it.

For one, it doesn't make any logical sense at all.
After all, the US already was buying Venezuelan oil all along.
https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MTTIMUSVE1&f=M

Not much changed there as the US bought about 1/3rd of Venezuela's production since the 90's (even before Chavez) all the way until Jan this year, when Guido stepped forward. That's when the US along with 50+ other countries, like even Japan which usually remains neutral, finally picked sides.

So did Japan also pick sides "because of oil" ?
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on March 26, 2019, 08:35:53 AM
I know what your answer to b_lumenkraft was, and it wasn't an honest answer. The honest answer is: Because oil.

OK. Second try :

Your answer does not make any logical sense.

The US has always had access to Venezuelan oil, buying about 1/3rd of Venezuela's production since even before Chavez :
https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MTTIMUSVE1&f=M
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Neven on March 26, 2019, 08:51:55 AM
Yes, exactly, it's about oil.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 26, 2019, 09:08:26 AM
Yes, exactly, it's about oil.

And the ongoing Abuse of Absolute Power.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on March 27, 2019, 08:23:36 AM
The honest answer is: Because oil.

Quote
Your answer does not make any logical sense.

The US has always had access to Venezuelan oil, buying about 1/3rd of Venezuela's production since even before Chavez :
https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MTTIMUSVE1&f=M
Yes, exactly, it's about oil.

If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on March 27, 2019, 08:32:08 AM
- are so bankrupt that they not only default on their foreign debt but also have 1,000,000 % inflation on their local currency and have to sell the gold from their central bank just to stay afloat,

Hyperinflation is not really a rare thing...

Sure. But Venezuela suffers from much, much more than hyperinflation.

For one, Maduro and his military friends have robbed the country blind, to the point where they are now selling the gold from the Venezuelan central bank.

You still want to continue doing business with that kind of "government" ?
50+ countries decided that enough is enough.
I agree with that.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Neven on March 27, 2019, 09:56:02 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBnIFqQDCyU

Quote
SHARMINI PERIES: The former UN Special Rapporteur Alfred de Zayas heavily criticized the report that Michelle Bachelet, as the chair of the Human Rights Commission, had delivered. He calls it unprofessional and politicized.

ALFRED DE ZAYAS: We are swimming in an ocean of lies. I must say, when I went to Venezuela I expected to find it a humanitarian crisis. I was predetermined to find a humanitarian crisis. I walked the streets. I spoke to people of all kinds. And that was not the case. That means I had been manipulated. I had been lied to. And I resent that. But if all you want to do is say Maduro is corrupt, and Maduro is a criminal, then you’re not likely to get any cooperation from the government. Most important, let’s support the Montevideo mechanism. This is the way forward.

(...)

SHARMINI PERIES: All right, there is the NGOs, Professor Zayas, the NGOs. Now, towards the end of your clip there when you were making a presentation at the Human Rights Council, you didn’t get enough time there to fully explain your findings and your take on what is going on Venezuela. But you said something very important there. You said even prior to going to Venezuela, you were fed an ocean of lies. Explain that to us.

ALFRED DE ZAYAS: Well, I’m a professional. I’m a lawyer. And before going on a mission as delicate and as important as this one, I literally read everything. I read all the reports of the Inter-American Commission of Human Rights on Venezuela, of Amnesty International, of Human Rights Watch, of the High Commissioner for Human Rights, et cetera, et cetera, also the reports–by the way, much more positive–the reports over the Human Rights Committee on Venezuela, the reports of the Committee on Economic, Social, and Cultural Rights on Venezuela. Now, whereas the reports of the expert committees were solid and were balanced, on one side this on the other side that, the reports, especially of Human Rights Watch, I was rather disappointed how politicized, how one sided they were, and how they completely ignored all other evidence.

They systematically fed me with the idea that the demonstrators are peaceful demonstrators, that the government is legitimate, that the government is a dictatorship, et cetera, et cetera. All I can say, that my own experience having spoken to members of the opposition, to the National Assembly, to the Chamber of Commerce, to professors and churches and civil society, having spoken also to the ministries, et cetera, is that the country is polarized. And you would have 50 percent on one side that wants to go back to the good old days when the rich were rich and the poor were poor, and want to throw out of the window all of the social legislation of Chavez and Maduro, and the other 50 percent that is going to fight tooth and nail to keep the human rights under Chavez and Maduro.

What I told the opposition, even if you succeed in toppling Maduro, what are you going to do with a nine million Chavistas who are your brothers, your Venezuelan brothers and sisters. They are not going to roll over, they are not going to disappear. So you’re going to end up with a civil war situation. So the only solution is dialogue, the only solution is also mediation, like Mexico and Uruguay are proposing through the Montevideo mechanism. That’s the only way out, and I hope that Michelle Bachelet will pick up on whatever the Montevideo mechanism has achieved and will personally speak with the opposition and with the government and try to reach a compromise.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 27, 2019, 05:26:26 PM
 US President Donald Trump has warned that Russia must get out of Venezuela. Two planeloads of Russian troops are currently in the Latin American country under the terms of a 2001 cooperation treaty.

Speaking at the White House, Trump also warned that “all options are open” when it comes to getting Russia out of Venezuela.

There he is whistlin' Dixie again.

    The United States will not tolerate hostile foreign military powers meddling with the Western Hemisphere’s shared goals of democracy, security, and the rule of law. The Venezuelan military must stand with the people of Venezuela.
    — John Bolton (@AmbJohnBolton) March 25, 2019

Awwh shucks John! What's all that hostile foreign military NATO power along the Eastern Front? The Russian Military stands with the people of Russia dipstick! :)
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on March 28, 2019, 09:47:04 AM
US President Donald Trump has warned that Russia must get out of Venezuela. Two planeloads of Russian troops are currently in the Latin American country under the terms of a 2001 cooperation treaty.

Which 2001 cooperation treaty was that exactly ?

Quote
Over that period Venezuela became one of the world’s top clients of the Russian arms industry. Between 2001 and 2011 it purchased $11 billion worth of Russian weapons.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/global-opinions/wp/2017/09/06/putins-latest-anti-american-intervention-venezuela/?utm_term=.e047a2423112

Ahh. THAT treaty ?

No wonder the Russians want to stay in Venezuela and want to keep the rest of the world out.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on March 28, 2019, 09:59:43 AM
An excellent report from TYT on Venezuela :

- there have been 6 strait years of economic contraction
- we have the highest hyper-inflation in the world
- we have a government who has become authoritarian and repressive
- and we have serious human rights violations ; killings of opposition leaders and jailing of journalist etc etc.

The entire story and what we should do/not do here :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ItTSW2fy10

Takeaway message at 5:20 and beyond :

..We really need to see new elections...
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Neven on March 28, 2019, 04:12:13 PM
The problem with that video is that the nice, white, privileged lady is obviously pro-Guaido. And pro-Guaido means pro-Bolton/Pompeo/Trump/Imperialist USA. Cenk Uygur calls her out on it and stresses the fact that all this is about, is oil (something that the nice, white, privileged lady and our own nice, white, privileged neoliberal Rob Dekker simply cannot find in themselves to admit).

Quote
Cenk Uygur: John Bolton went out on Fox News and said: We're looking forward to protecting American business interests there, including the American oil companies. Nah, and you know, so they're backing Guaido. I can't have us doing a, you know, an unofficial coup of Maduro, back Guaido, and Guaido comes in and goes: Congratulations, mission accomplished, Exxon-Mobil gets all the oil.
Pilar Marrero: Hihi.
Cenk Uygur: I can't have that, but I can't have the status quo, because Maduro is killing the country. There's extrajudicial killings, a million kids are not going to school anymore, it's an absolute disaster. It's as big a no-win situation as you can almost imagine.
Pilar Marrero: Let me tell you something about the history of oil in Venezuela.

See what she did there? Instead of saying "Absolutely, Guaido is a US Imperialist stooge, as we've seen so many of in Latin America during the past century", she changes the subject to smear Chavismo and complain that oil isn't pumped out as efficiently as could be, because it should be left to the free market (ie Exxon-Mobil).

She then goes on to imply that more than oil being the reason for US meddling, it's because Trump wants to put socialism in the spotlight and then say that the Democrats are just like that. Which, of course, is why it's so monumentally stupid to be pro-Guaido, because you then support that dynamic that is aimed at crippling the true left. Hence, if you're pro-Guaido, you are not a true progressive.

But fortunately, Cenk Uygur, being a good journalist who doesn't push establishment narratives on behalf of money interests and TPTB, doesn't let go:

Quote
Cenk Uygur: Pilar, let's keep it real. The Trump administration and all the neocons are on a war path against two countries: Iran and Venezuela. There's only one thing that connects those two countries: oil. Okay? And there's one country we invaded: Iraq. Oil. Okay? North Korea, we ain't gonna invade, okay, because they don't have any oil. So, it's definitely, definitely about the oil.
Pilar Marrero (again deflecting): If you ask a lot of Venezuelans today: Would you mind having the American companies go in instead of having your freedom and a good government that will not torture you and kill you and starve you? A lot of people will say 'yes'.
Cenk Uygur: Yes, but the problem is with the American oil companies come, or even American banana companies, they also bring the torture and the human rights abuses...
Pilar Marrero (interrupting): It's already there. It barely can get any worse than it is now.
Cenk Uygur: Not a great way to solve it.

At the end, Cenk explains why binary thinking, where you think you absolutely need to choose between one of two sides (something that Rob Dekker promotes at every turn), is a dumb thing to do:

Quote
This is the Venezuelan people being squeezed between these different power players like Russia and the US. The US does not necessarily have your best interests in mind, but neither does Russia. So, if you're a progressive and you think: No, Putin is a good guy, I agree with George W. Bush who looked into his eyes and said he has a good soul, and he cares about the people of Venezuela. You are officially nuts if you believe that. You are also nuts if you think that's what Trump thinks. Neither one thinks that, okay? So, we gotta find a way to protect the people of Venezuela.

You're also nuts if you think sociopaths like Pelosi, Schumer, Feinstein, Harris, Booker, Biden, Clintons, Obama and the other neoliberal Corporatist Republicans-lite think that.

The only way to protect the Venezuelan people, is to stop being pro-Guaido, to stop pushing polarisation, to lift sanctions and to help Venezuela wherever possible to become less reliant on dirty AGW-inducing, Koch-enriching oil, without meddling to install neoliberal puppets.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Neven on March 28, 2019, 04:17:15 PM
I hope that Cenk Uygur will now also have a conversation with black, leftist Venezuelans, and that Rob Dekker will post the link here.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 29, 2019, 04:17:42 AM
I hope that Cenk Uygur will now also have a conversation with black, leftist Venezuelans, and that Rob Dekker will post the link here.

There's a new movie out on my Netflix this week. It's about the media going to Ecuador to cover an insurgency/civil war. I suspect it might be an unexpected/unintended analogy to what has happened around Venezuela recently.

I highly recommend it, 'tis a good movie. :)

Special Correspondents is a 2016 British-Canadian-American satirical comedy film written, directed by and starring Ricky Gervais. The film is a remake of the 2009 French comedy Envoyés très spéciaux, and stars Gervais, Eric Bana, Vera Farmiga, Kelly Macdonald, Kevin Pollak, Benjamin Bratt, America Ferrera and Raúl Castillo. The film had its world premiere at the Tribeca Film Festival on 22 April 2016 and was released worldwide by Netflix on 29 April 2016. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZS-5XZViuhg
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on March 29, 2019, 07:35:15 AM
I hope that Cenk Uygur will now also have a conversation with black, leftist Venezuelans, and that Rob Dekker will post the link here.

You say this lady is "well to do", but you give no evidence for that.
You imply that this lady is not "leftist" but you give no evidence for that either.
The only thing that is obvious is that this lady is not "black" and you are asking for Cenk to interview a "black, leftist Venezuelan".

Well, Cenk did not find such a person, but here is the reality of Venezuelan people (regardless of skin color) that are at least NOT "well to do". Cenk may want to interview them just like the BBC did :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdcrFVXhLdU

These people are living on $2/day in Colombia, but still won't go back to Venezuela, since at least their kids can eat in Colombia.

And Cenk may want to interview these people from a barrio in Caracas, who protested the Maduro policies on Jan 23 this year, and then had to face FAES afterwards.
https://www.caracaschronicles.com/2019/01/27/meet-faes-the-bolivarian-police-death-squads-leading-repression-against-protesters/

(https://www.caracaschronicles.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/IMG-20190127-WA0064.jpg)

The UN estimates 40 protesters where killed, 850 detained.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-politics-un/more-than-40-dead-850-detained-in-venezuela-violence-u-n-says-idUSKCN1PN16Y

That is how the voice of the poor is being handled by the Maduro regime.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on March 29, 2019, 07:42:34 AM
Venezuelan refugees now number 3.4 million; humanitarian implications massive, UN warns

https://news.un.org/en/story/2019/02/1033361
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on March 29, 2019, 07:56:13 AM
I hope that Cenk Uygur will now also have a conversation with black, leftist Venezuelans, and that Rob Dekker will post the link here.

You say this lady is "well to do", but you give no evidence for that.
You say that this lady is "pro-Guaido" and imply that she is not "leftist" but you give no evidence for that either.

The only thing that is obvious is that this lady is not "black" and you are asking for Cenk to interview a "black, leftist Venezuelan".

Well, I'm not sure why being "black" and being "leftist" would make any difference, but here is the reality of the Venezuelan people (regardless of skin color) that are at least NOT "well to do".

Cenk may want to interview them just like the BBC did :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdcrFVXhLdU

These people are living on $2/day in Colombia, but still won't go back to Venezuela, since at least their kids can eat in Colombia.

And Cenk may want to interview these people from a barrio in Caracas, who protested the Maduro policies on Jan 23 this year, and then had to face FAES afterwards.
https://www.caracaschronicles.com/2019/01/27/meet-faes-the-bolivarian-police-death-squads-leading-repression-against-protesters/

(https://www.caracaschronicles.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/IMG-20190127-WA0064.jpg)

The UN estimates 40 protesters where killed, 850 detained.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-politics-un/more-than-40-dead-850-detained-in-venezuela-violence-u-n-says-idUSKCN1PN16Y

That is how the voice of the poor is being handled by the Maduro regime.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on March 29, 2019, 08:03:19 AM
I hope that Cenk Uygur will now also have a conversation with black, leftist Venezuelans, and that Rob Dekker will post the link here.

Well, I'm not sure why being "black" and being "leftist" would make any difference, but here is the reality of the Venezuelan people (regardless of skin color or political orientation) that are at least NOT "well to do".

Cenk may want to interview them just like TRT did :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdcrFVXhLdU

These people are living on $2/day in Colombia, but still won't go back to Venezuela, since at least their kids can eat in Colombia.

And Cenk may want to interview these people from a barrio in Caracas, who protested the Maduro policies on Jan 23 this year, and then had to face FAES afterwards.
https://www.caracaschronicles.com/2019/01/27/meet-faes-the-bolivarian-police-death-squads-leading-repression-against-protesters/

(https://www.caracaschronicles.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/IMG-20190127-WA0064.jpg)

The UN estimates 40 protesters where killed, 850 detained.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-politics-un/more-than-40-dead-850-detained-in-venezuela-violence-u-n-says-idUSKCN1PN16Y

That is how the voice of the poor is being handled by the Maduro regime.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on March 29, 2019, 08:27:59 AM
You're also nuts if you think sociopaths like Pelosi, Schumer, Feinstein, Harris, Booker, Biden, Clintons, Obama and the other neoliberal Corporatist Republicans-lite think that.

Even Harris is not good enough for you ?

Seriously, Neven, you need to chill out.

A LOT.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Neven on March 29, 2019, 09:21:14 AM
Quote
Well, I'm not sure why being "black" and being "leftist" would make any difference,

Yes, it would, as class and race are huge factors in the Venezuelan dynamic.

There are more poor people in the US than the total population of Venezuela, prison rates in the US are the world's highest, with almost 25% of the global prison population being incarcerated in American prisons, surveillance of Americans by their own government is unparalleled, and so on. But of course, Rob only wants to talk about what the mainstream media feeds him.

And so Rob supports Guaido (and Pompeo, Bolton, Trump and all the other neocon loonies who want oil, weapons sales and crushing 'socialism') and a regime change, that at least half the Venezuelan people is against. Very democratic. Could it be that you dislike dictators so much, because there's a little dictator inside of you? For more insight, I can recommend Bob Altemeyer's The Authoritarians (https://theauthoritarians.org/Downloads/TheAuthoritarians.pdf).
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Neven on March 29, 2019, 10:13:49 AM
Of course, if you want people to have it better in Venezuela, you need to protest US sanctions, not support neoliberal stooges like Guaido. And maybe not manipulate oil prices with your repressive dictatorial buddies in Saudi Arabia.

Because, of course, it's all about the oil. That's why mainstream media supports Trump's neocon regime change policies, in turn instigating Rob's selective and politically motivated indignation.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 30, 2019, 05:34:51 AM
 Venezuela's Comptroller General says opposition lawmaker Juan Guaido has been barred from holding public office for fifteen years, as authorities investigate irregularities with his personal finances.

Also mentions the "sniper attack" on the hydro plant by "opposition terrorists" that caused the fires outages.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASQ0MOZ6hi4
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 30, 2019, 05:45:25 AM
The presence of Russian troops and military equipment in Venezuela makes regime-change military intervention to topple the Maduro government unlikely and furthermore, President Maduro is genuinely popular, Daniel McAdams of the Ron Paul Institute tells News.Views.Hughes. He says that opposition leader Juan Guaido and his faction misled the Trump administration about the ease with which he could be installed as president.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDzvwiRfiMo

Latin America is in nobodies back-yard, for it is Latin America's own Yard and Home
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 30, 2019, 06:17:07 AM
Venezuelan refugees now number 3.4 million; humanitarian implications massive, UN warns

https://news.un.org/en/story/2019/02/1033361

Venezuelan refugees now number 3.4 million ? How so?

from the article:
 
Since 2014, over 390,000 asylum claims have been lodged by Venezuelans – close to 60 per cent (232,000) happened in 2018 alone.

To complement these efforts, a humanitarian Regional Refugee and Migrant Response Plan was launched last December, targeting 2.2 million vulnerable Venezuelans and 500,000 people in host communities across 16 countries.


390K asylum claims nor 500K in host countries does not equal 3.4 million refugees.

The UN refugee agency (UNHCR) and the UN migration agency (IOM) issued statements based on data from national immigration authorities and other sources, showing that, on average, in 2018, 5,000 people left Venezuela every day in search of protection or a better life.

= 1.8 million in 2018 ?

Who are those "other sources" and how accurate are those "immigration authorities"?

When Trump was crying about the Caravans heading to the US border I do not recall any mention of a MAJOR source being from Venezuela?
 
The vast majority of them – 2.7 million – are hosted in countries of Latin America and the Caribbean.

Where is the other claimed 700,000 refugees? 

In fact where is this 2.7 / 3.4 million "refugees" given only 390K have registered as such since 2014!!!

These numbers do not add up, and nor are the discrepancies explained by the UN or anyone else.

eg where are the UN Refugee camps inside Columbia supposedly needing to house over 1 million poor impoverished out of work Venezuelan  Refugees?

Why do we not see any pictures of these masses of people in desperate need of Humanitarian aid from the UN in 2017, or 2018 nor in 2019? 
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on March 30, 2019, 07:34:54 AM
Of course, if you want people to have it better in Venezuela, you need to protest US sanctions...

The Maduro regime and its military depend on the oil dollars to stay in power and suppress the Venezuelan people (see for example FAES above).

By protesting the US sanctions you are thus promoting the authoritarian Maduro regime and its suppressive policies. Don't you understand that, Neven ?

What helps the people of Venezuela is international humanitarian aid.

Luckily that has now be allowed in :

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/29/world/americas/red-cross-venezuela-aid.html

Quote
In scale and ambition, the relief effort could become an “operation very similar to what is happening in Syria,” said Francesco Rocca, the president of the International Federation of the Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies, to reporters in Caracas on Friday. “It obviously will not and cannot solve the country’s problems, but it’s a necessary step to save lives.”

Mr. Maduro had repeatedly denied that the country needed help, even as the economy hurtled toward collapse. The crisis has led to an explosion of malnutrition and infant mortality, a resurgence of nearly eradicated diseases and the biggest refugee crisis in South America, as hundreds of thousands of Venezuelans fled.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on March 30, 2019, 07:59:30 AM
Of course, if you want people to have it better in Venezuela, you need to protest US sanctions...

The Maduro regime and its military depend on the oil dollars to stay in power and suppress the Venezuelan people (see for example FAES above).  Don't you understand that, Neven ?

What helps the people of Venezuela is international humanitarian aid.

Finally that has now be allowed in :

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/29/world/americas/red-cross-venezuela-aid.html

Quote
In scale and ambition, the relief effort could become an “operation very similar to what is happening in Syria,” said Francesco Rocca, the president of the International Federation of the Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies, to reporters in Caracas on Friday. “It obviously will not and cannot solve the country’s problems, but it’s a necessary step to save lives.”

Mr. Maduro had repeatedly denied that the country needed help, even as the economy hurtled toward collapse. The crisis has led to an explosion of malnutrition and infant mortality, a resurgence of nearly eradicated diseases and the biggest refugee crisis in South America, as hundreds of thousands of Venezuelans fled.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on March 30, 2019, 08:18:01 AM
But of course, Rob only wants to talk about what the mainstream media feeds him.

The sources I presented : TRT (a Turkish News Agency) and Caracas Chronicles (a crowd funded independent Venezuelan news agency) are anything but "mainstream media".

I'm sorry that the facts presented don't match with your world view.
You can now choose to ignore these facts, or adjust your world view.
Your call.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on March 30, 2019, 09:11:09 AM
Also mentions the "sniper attack" on the hydro plant by "opposition terrorists" that caused the fires outages.

Before the US was involved, it were :

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-47492624
Quote
"animals such as rats, mice, snakes, cats, squirrels" getting into the hydroelectric system's substations - before adding that "of course iguanas are included".

Then when the US declared its sanctions against the Maduro regime, it was :

https://www.cybersecurity-insiders.com/venezuela-power-outage-caused-by-us-cyber-attack/
Quote
The populace in Venezuela is reigning under a power blackout which is suspected to have been caused by hackers backed by US Intelligence. Well, President Nicholas Maduro said so and added in his statement that his government has enough evidence to prove his claims.

Off course no evidence of US involvement was ever presented, but sure. Whatever.

Then it was the opposition switching on all their appliances :

https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/13/americas/venezuela-blackout-restored-intl/index.html
Quote
The Information Minister used to the press conference to accuse supporters of the opposition leader, and Venezuela's self-declared interim president, Juan Guaido, of trying to bring down the electrical grid by plugging in all their appliances.

And now it is a "sniper attack" on the hydro plant by "opposition terrorists".

OK. So you can't take responsibility for mis-management of your electric grid.
That's OK. We understand.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 30, 2019, 09:37:41 AM
That is how the voice of the poor is being handled by the Maduro regime.

Talk about desperate for "bad" examples. Any confirmation of those numbers since January when it supposedly happened?

This is what a real protest against a President looks like .....

About one million people took to the streets of Algiers on Friday to demand the resignation of President Abdelaziz Bouteflika, Reuters reported, citing police officers at the scene. This has been the biggest demonstration since unrest erupted six weeks ago. Earlier reports said that Algerian police used tear gas and water cannon to try to disperse demonstrators, days after the army called for Bouteflika’s removal to end weeks of political crisis. The protests, which erupted on February 22, have been largely peaceful but have put pressure on the military to stabilize the North African country.


Get back to us when Quaido can pull an anti-Maduro crowd of 1 million versus the 500, 1000, or occasional 10,000 crowd.

I wish Neven didn't "cull" so many of your posts Rob. People should have the right to see the real quality of your 'character' and 'moral' compass imho.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 30, 2019, 09:42:09 AM
    Gen. @vladimirpadrino: The FANB has a historic role & opportunity to protect the Venezuelan people from violence conducted by Maduro’s ‘colectivos’, to avoid further bowing to Cuba, & to protect the Constitutional order from Maduro’s usurpation of democracy. Do the right thing.
    — John Bolton (@AmbJohnBolton) March 28, 2019

"Mr. Bolton, I tell you that we are doing the right thing," Padrino responded in a televised address. "Doing the right thing is doing what's written in the constitution... Doing the right thing is respecting the will of the people."

Padrino does not seem interested in Bolton's love letters, however, denouncing Guaido as "a self-proclaimed outlaw."

"We, the soldiers of the Motherland, do not accept the president imposed in the shadow of dark interests,"
he said.

(shrug)
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Sterks on March 30, 2019, 06:16:47 PM

I wish Neven didn't "cull" so many of your posts Rob. People should have the right to see the real quality of your 'character' and 'moral' compass imho.

Yeah and you could add your address too, Rob, so that he or she can send the Thought Police
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 30, 2019, 10:59:48 PM
"thought police" , that old phurphy is used when facts fail to impress .... ROFL

 Haiti opposition calls for renewed street protests against US-backed president
Published time: 30 Mar, 2019 07:30
Get short URL

Mass protests in Haiti may renew after leading opposition groups united over the common goal of ousting President Jovenel Moise, whose government the protesters accuse of corruption. Earlier, at least 26 people were killed and dozens injured amid clashes between activists and security forces.

The protests first erupted in February after a court report accused senior officials of misappropriating billions of dollars in aid received from Venezuela. Haiti is also suffering from a deteriorating economy and a lack of security, with gang violence on the rise.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Neven on March 30, 2019, 11:19:10 PM
Haiti is also suffering from a deteriorating economy and a lack of security, with gang violence on the rise.

But no oil, and so we don't care.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 31, 2019, 05:19:37 AM
Where would you prefer to be living?

In Gaza, Yemen, Afghanistan, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Haiti, Mozambique or Venezuela?

 the UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs, reports. “From September to December 2018, an estimated 1.78 million people... were severely food insecure in the country.” Those problems are now exacerbated by the storm. The United Nations World Food Programme has classified the situation in Mozambique as its highest-level emergency.

And that brings us back to cholera spreading in Beira.

“Malnutrition and cholera are interconnected,” Jamie McGoldrick, the UN humanitarian coordinator for Yemen told the Washington Post. “Weakened and hungry people are more likely to contract cholera and cholera is more likely to flourish in places where malnutrition exists.”

Or, pontificating from San Francisco while driving around in your brand new Tesla Model S saving the world from Climate Change?
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 31, 2019, 06:01:31 AM
US is manufacturing a crisis in Venezuela so that there is chaos and 'needed' intervention
Eva Bartlett is a freelance journalist and rights activist with extensive experience in the Gaza Strip and Syria. Her writings can be found on her blog, In Gaza.

Long detailed article with videos
Intro
 Venezuela is America's current target for mass destabilization in the hope of installing a puppet government.

Quote
    Yesterday in Petare, largest barrio in Latin America (& one of poorest in Caracas), I saw not-starving ppl purchasing similar vegs, plus meats, walking like normal ppl, not like a "crisis".

    Media is lying about a humanitarian crisis.

    Same media that doesn't care about Yemen. pic.twitter.com/Rz3e6bp46q
    — Eva Bartlett (@EvaKBartlett) March 28, 2019
https://twitter.com/EvaKBartlett/status/1111409230043439111?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

Clearly, the goal of such attacks is to create so much suffering and frustration among the public that there is chaos, and a “needed” US intervention. The chaos has not happened, the people have refused it.

https://www.rt.com/op-ed/455081-manufactured-crisis-venezuela-us-intervention/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QA4gTZvZYPU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaQ7SdSa9Fg
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 31, 2019, 06:42:16 AM
I want to read you a tweet from Debbie Wasserman-Schultz

Our viewers may know Debbie Wasserman
Schultz, she was the Democrats former
DNC chair that helped rig the primary for
Hillary Clinton and stole it from Bernie
Sanders. So she cheated Bernie Sanders
out of what could have been a primary
victory during the 2016 elections but she
is still in Congress of course these people
you know they never get demoted they
always get promoted.

Here is Debbie Wasserman Schultz's
tweet regarding Venezuela and I quote

"Russian military officials arrived in
Venezuela this weekend. Today my Bill
"The Russia - Venezuelan Threat Mitigation
Act" goes to the House floor requiring a
State Department threat assessment of
Russian influence in Venezuela
."

Alexander that Bill did pass and Abby
Martin who's an excellent journalist she
responded to Debbie Wasserman
Schultz's tweet and this is her reply:

"Weird to be concerned about Russian
influence in Venezuela at the same time
you're trying to install a blood-thirsty
coup there!"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAURbsSevb4


"So the U.S. is once again applying its
double standards and is engaging in
some absolutely surreal disinformation,
which I have to say I find so bizarre
that I struggle to believe that anybody
can possibly believe it or take it seriously."
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 31, 2019, 07:52:08 AM
Arson in Venezuela? Forests, bush land near cities, power grid and plants, refineries, pipelines.

The S300s missile defence system didn't just arrive. They have been there since 2013 apparently but only recently being deployed in response to US aggression, terrorist activities, and military threats.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tzq2B6uV8T8
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on March 31, 2019, 08:35:11 AM
Quote
Our viewers may know Debbie Wasserman
Schultz, she was the Democrats former
DNC chair that helped rig the primary for
Hillary Clinton and stole it from Bernie
Sanders. So she cheated Bernie Sanders
out of what could have been a primary
victory during the 2016 elections but she
is still in Congress of course these people
you know they never get demoted they
always get promoted.

Here is Debbie Wasserman Schultz's
tweet regarding Venezuela and I quote

"Russian military officials arrived in
Venezuela this weekend. Today my Bill
"The Russia - Venezuelan Threat Mitigation
Act" goes to the House floor requiring a
State Department threat assessment of
Russian influence in Venezuela
."

Alexander that Bill did pass and Abby
Martin who's an excellent journalist she
responded to Debbie Wasserman
Schultz's tweet and this is her reply:

"Weird to be concerned about Russian
influence in Venezuela at the same time
you're trying to install a blood-thirsty
coup there!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAURbsSevb4
Quote

"So the U.S. is once again applying its
double standards and is engaging in
some absolutely surreal disinformation,
which I have to say I find so bizarre
that I struggle to believe that anybody
can possibly believe it or take it seriously
."

Quote

"Let's assume that there are no Turkish
troops in Venezuela
, why are we even talking
about the possibility somebody's doing
it, might it be the Turks themselves?
Quite possibly I mean it's an extraordinary
thing.

But I mean first of all that maybe Turkish troops
there, I don't know that there are not, but
even if they are not the very fact that people
are talking about this possibility is extraordinary.

And as I said remember what an important
country is a turkey is to the NATO system.
I mean not only is it is it got the second biggest
military in NATO I'm not saying it's the second
most powerful military in NATO but it is the
second biggest but it is a pivotal power
that the United States needs as an ally
in order to project power into the Middle East
and into the Black Sea and Balkan areas if
the U.S. really were to lose turkey if it really
were to lose Turkey, if Turkey were really to
go over completely to the side of the Eurasian
powers of Russia and China then the entire
American position in the Eastern
Mediterranean and in the Middle East
would be in very serious jeopardy, with
the Russian fleet able to sail from
Sevastopol into the eastern Mediterranean
unhindered. That frankly is going to change
the whole dynamics in that whole area."
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on April 01, 2019, 06:43:18 AM
Here is a report from Jan 2019 :

Quote
Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro on Monday raised the minimum wage by 300 percent to 18,000 bolivars per month

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-politics-wage/venezuelas-maduro-hikes-minimum-wage-300-percent-idUSKCN1P82E2

Now, 12 seconds into that Eva Bartlett video, we see that a hot dog costs 10,000 bolivars.

In other words, if you make minimum wage in Venezuela, you can almost buy two hot dogs per month.

That's the crisis in Venezuela that the whole world is talking about and only Russia and its useful idiots in the west (like Lurk and Eva Bartlett) is trying very hard to deny.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on April 01, 2019, 06:51:01 AM
Here is a report from Jan 2019 :

Quote
Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro on Monday raised the minimum wage by 300 percent to 18,000 bolivars per month

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-politics-wage/venezuelas-maduro-hikes-minimum-wage-300-percent-idUSKCN1P82E2

Now, 19 seconds into that Eva Bartlett video, we see that a jumbo hot dog costs 10,000 bolivars.

In other words, if you make minimum wage in Venezuela, you can almost buy two jumbo hot dogs per month.

That's ONE crisis in Venezuela that Russia and its useful idiots in the west (like Lurk and Eva Bartlett) are trying very hard to deny.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on April 01, 2019, 08:15:03 AM
Here is a report from Jan 2019 :

Quote
Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro on Monday raised the minimum wage by 300 percent to 18,000 bolivars per month

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-politics-wage/venezuelas-maduro-hikes-minimum-wage-300-percent-idUSKCN1P82E2

Now, 19 seconds into that Eva Bartlett video, we see that a jumbo hot dog costs 10,000 bolivars.

In other words, if you make minimum wage in Venezuela, you cannot even buy two jumbo hot dogs per month.

<snip, red-baiting; N.>
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on April 01, 2019, 09:57:53 AM
Here is a report from Jan 2019 :

Quote
Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro on Monday raised the minimum wage by 300 percent to 18,000 bolivars per month

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-politics-wage/venezuelas-maduro-hikes-minimum-wage-300-percent-idUSKCN1P82E2

Now, 19 seconds into that Eva Bartlett video, we see that a jumbo hot dog costs 10,000 bolivars.

In other words, if you make minimum wage in Venezuela, you can almost buy two jumbo hot dogs per month.

That's ONE crisis in Venezuela that Russia and its useful idiots in the west (like Lurk and Eva Bartlett) are trying very hard to deny.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Neven on April 01, 2019, 11:09:32 AM
That's all fine and dandy, Rob. We all know what hyperinflation is and that many countries around the world have suffered from it, are suffering from it and will be suffering from it, especially if they are dependent on a resource with high price volatility, and are subject to illegal, crippling sanctions.

Stop being pro-Guaido or other crony capitalist stooges, stop rooting for undemocratic regime change (together with Pompeo, Bolton, Abrams, Trump, Wasserman-Schultz and the other psychopaths), protest the sanctions and call for cooperation with Venezuela to help them become less dependent on oil. I know you think neoliberalism is the best way forward, and so socialism must be fought at every turn, but that mindset is what brings you Trump, and much worse in the near future.

And stick with Venezuela from now on, make it your project. Don't switch to something else or some other 'dictator', as soon as the establishment media tells you to. The enemy is Us, not Them.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on April 02, 2019, 05:30:17 AM
Neven, I'm not pro-Guaido. I'm just against Maduro and his policies, and I want to see free elections in Venezuela.

Just like 50+ governments of democratic countries do.

And so should you.

Venezuela has been robbed blind, the country turned into a repressive dictatorship, the treasury looted, the economy tanked, revenue stolen, and the perpetrators are not even hard to find.

Here is one :

Quote
A former national treasurer of Venezuela who lives in a 9,000-square-foot Wellington estate has admitted he received more than $1 billion in bribes to allow other business leaders to raid the nation’s coffers, pushing the country into financial chaos, according to federal court papers released Tuesday.

Alejandro Andrade, 54, who has been a player in Wellington’s equestrian scene since moving into the gated Palm Beach Point community in 2012, has pleaded guilty to a charge of conspiracy in connection with a global money-laundering scheme that devastated the once-wealthy nation, according to federal court records unsealed Tuesday.

https://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/20181120/alejandro-andrade-feds-unseal-indictment-that-implicates-wellington-based-show-horse-owner

Why on Earth you are still defining this guy Maduro and attacking me for doing simple fact-checks is beyond me.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on April 02, 2019, 05:37:37 AM
Neven, I'm not pro-Guaido. I'm just against Maduro and his corrupt government, and I want to see free elections in Venezuela.

Just like 50+ governments of democratic countries do.

And so should you.

Under Chavez and later Maduro, Venezuela has been robbed blind, the country turned into a repressive dictatorship, the treasury looted, the economy tanked, revenue stolen, and the perpetrators are not even hard to find.

Here is one :

(https://www.palmbeachpost.com/storyimage/LK/20181127/NEWS/181127752/AR/0/AR-181127752.jpg)

Quote
A former national treasurer of Venezuela who lives in a 9,000-square-foot Wellington estate has admitted he received more than $1 billion in bribes to allow other business leaders to raid the nation’s coffers, pushing the country into financial chaos, according to federal court papers released Tuesday.

Alejandro Andrade, 54, who has been a player in Wellington’s equestrian scene since moving into the gated Palm Beach Point community in 2012, has pleaded guilty to a charge of conspiracy in connection with a global money-laundering scheme that devastated the once-wealthy nation, according to federal court records unsealed Tuesday.

https://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/20181120/alejandro-andrade-feds-unseal-indictment-that-implicates-wellington-based-show-horse-owner

What's your opinion on this guy, Neven ?
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on April 02, 2019, 06:29:54 AM
Neven, I'm not pro-Guaido. I'm just against Maduro and his corrupt and repressive government, and I want to see free elections in Venezuela.

Just like Bernie said :

Quote
What’s going on in Venezuela is terrible.
The economy is a disaster.
People are living in hunger and in fear.
I strongly believe there has to be an international and humanitarian effort
to improve lives for the people.
I think the evidence is clear that the last election in Venezuela was not a free and fair election,
and under international supervision, I want to see a free and fair election.

And just like 50+ governments of democratic countries do. Including even Japan.

And so should you.

Under Chavez and later Maduro, Venezuela has been robbed blind, the country turned into a repressive dictatorship, the treasury looted, the economy tanked, revenue stolen, and the perpetrators are not even hard to find.

Here is one :

(https://www.palmbeachpost.com/storyimage/LK/20181127/NEWS/181127752/AR/0/AR-181127752.jpg)

Quote
A former national treasurer of Venezuela who lives in a 9,000-square-foot Wellington estate has admitted he received more than $1 billion in bribes to allow other business leaders to raid the nation’s coffers, pushing the country into financial chaos, according to federal court papers released Tuesday.

Alejandro Andrade, 54, who has been a player in Wellington’s equestrian scene since moving into the gated Palm Beach Point community in 2012, has pleaded guilty to a charge of conspiracy in connection with a global money-laundering scheme that devastated the once-wealthy nation, according to federal court records unsealed Tuesday.

https://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/20181120/alejandro-andrade-feds-unseal-indictment-that-implicates-wellington-based-show-horse-owner

What's your opinion on this guy, Neven ?
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on April 02, 2019, 08:37:39 AM
Neven, I'm not pro-Guaido. I'm just against Maduro and his corrupt and repressive government, and I want to see free elections in Venezuela.

Just like Bernie said :

Quote
What’s going on in Venezuela is terrible.
The economy is a disaster.
People are living in hunger and in fear.
I strongly believe there has to be an international and humanitarian effort
to improve lives for the people.
I think the evidence is clear that the last election in Venezuela was not a free and fair election,
and under international supervision, I want to see a free and fair election.

And just like 50+ governments of democratic countries do. Including even Japan.

And so should you.

Under Chavez and later Maduro, Venezuela has been robbed blind, the country turned into a repressive dictatorship, the treasury looted, the economy tanked, revenue stolen, and the perpetrators are not even hard to find.

Here is one :

(https://www.palmbeachpost.com/storyimage/LK/20181127/NEWS/181127752/AR/0/AR-181127752.jpg)

Quote
A former national treasurer of Venezuela who lives in a 9,000-square-foot Wellington estate has admitted he received more than $1 billion in bribes to allow other business leaders to raid the nation’s coffers, pushing the country into financial chaos, according to federal court papers released Tuesday.

Alejandro Andrade, 54, who has been a player in Wellington’s equestrian scene since moving into the gated Palm Beach Point community in 2012, has pleaded guilty to a charge of conspiracy in connection with a global money-laundering scheme that devastated the once-wealthy nation, according to federal court records unsealed Tuesday.

https://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/20181120/alejandro-andrade-feds-unseal-indictment-that-implicates-wellington-based-show-horse-owner

What's your opinion on this guy, Neven ?
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: sidd on April 02, 2019, 08:44:33 PM
Place is getting crowded: chinese send troops

https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/chinese-army-arrives-in-venezuela-just-days-after-the-russian-miltary/

sidd
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Neven on April 02, 2019, 10:05:52 PM
Quote
Under Chavez and later Maduro, Venezuela has been robbed blind, the country turned into a repressive dictatorship, the treasury looted, the economy tanked, revenue stolen, and the perpetrators are not even hard to find.

Just like those crazy Democrats are trying to do, with the take-over by commies like Bernie and AOC!

How weird it must be to sound just like Trump:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAJIpPPftwY

Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on April 03, 2019, 04:33:15 AM
Thank you for posting that RealNews link.

I don't agree with all the statements they make, but overall they come to the same conclusion I made :

The problem in Venezuela was caused by mismanagement of the economy, specifically over-spending and corruption.

Venezuelans cannot afford food, because the economy is in the tank, there is hyperinflation because Venezuela has NO income, and the Maduro regime is printing worthless paper as salaries to the people.

The country is BANKRUPT (Maduro is selling even the gold from the central bank, and who know how much he keeps for himself), and the political system is now a dictatorship.

And that's why 3 million Venezuelans left the country.
And the UN estimates another 2 million are to come this year.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on April 03, 2019, 08:51:53 AM
I'm glad that the Real News correctly points out that the sanctions are NOT the cause of the economic crisis (check 11:00 into the video).

As for the root cause, although they use much more convoluted words, they actually confirm what I posted earlier :

Chavez over-spend, and got the country into debt.
Corruption took out much of the nation's income.

Now under Maduro, Venezuelans cannot afford food, because the economy is in the tank, there is hyperinflation because Venezuela has NO income, and the Maduro regime is printing worthless paper as salaries to the people.

The country is BANKRUPT (Maduro is selling even the gold from the central bank, and who know how much he keeps for himself), and the political system is now a dictatorship.

And that's why 3 million Venezuelans left the country.
And the UN estimates another 2 million are to come this year.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on April 03, 2019, 09:38:12 AM
That RealNews segment confirms what I mentioned before :
That the CAUSE of the Venezuelan crisis is NOT the sanctions.
It's over-spending, mis-management and corruption during the Chavez and Maduro regimes.

Neven, I'm with Bernie and with his statement :

Quote
What’s going on in Venezuela is terrible.
The economy is a disaster.
People are living in hunger and in fear.
I strongly believe there has to be an international and humanitarian effort
to improve lives for the people.
I think the evidence is clear that the last election in Venezuela was not a free and fair election,
and under international supervision, I want to see a free and fair election.

Seriously, by going BEYOND that statement, you are DESTROYING whatever credibility the left wing progressive movement has in the US.

Not just that, you are also prolonging the suffering of the Venezuelan people under a repressive dictatorship.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: sidd on April 04, 2019, 06:32:34 AM
Remember the Maine: Hearst had nuttn on these guys

"Joanna Hausmann, a comedian who posts highly viewed articles on Venezuela on YouTube, delivered a five minute, thirteen second opinion piece at the Times Monday in which she claims that the country's leader, President Nicolas Maduro, is a dictator and that the American left are his patsies. "

"What the video and the Times did not reveal is that Hausmann's father, Harvard University economics professor Ricardo Hausmann, currently serves as  Guaidó's envoy to the Inter-American Development Bank (IADB)."

What ? no babies being thrown outta incubators ? they're slipping.

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2019/04/02/weak-journalism-nyt-fails-disclose-op-ed-writers-close-family-ties-venezuelan

sidd
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on April 04, 2019, 09:07:16 AM
Quote
Under Chavez and later Maduro, Venezuela has been robbed blind, the country turned into a repressive dictatorship, the treasury looted, the economy tanked, revenue stolen, and the perpetrators are not even hard to find.

Just like those crazy Democrats are trying to do, with the take-over by commies like Bernie and AOC!

How weird it must be to sound just like Trump:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAJIpPPftwY

Yes, I may sound like Trump, because in this particular case he is right.
Venezuela is in crisis.

Any attempt to shuv this under the rug is counterproductive.
It just plays into the hands of Trump.

Let me explain :
Trump says that Venezuela failed and it failed because it is 'socialist'.
And at the same time he promotes this message that Bernie is 'socialist'.

This is an obvious attempt to link Bernie (the most popular Democratic candidate at this point) to the failed state of Venezuela.

You, and Max Blumenthal, and Jimmy Dore, and Eva Bartlett, and to some extent Real News as well fell right into Trump's trap : You are trying to :

1) Deny that there is a crisis in Venezuela, and
2) If there is a crisis, that it is caused by the US and its sanctions.

Both are verifiably FALSE, and make you look stupid in the general public.

<snip, no McCarthyism, thanks; N.>

Also, the crisis is going to get worse as long as Maduro is in power, since Venezuela is broke and it's oil production (income) has collapsed.

So your argument will only get weaker over time.

If it's your intent to terminate Bernie and AOC and anyone else with a progressive agenda, then please go ahead, and proceed with what you are doing, promoting Dore et al. linking Venezuela to 'socialism' and denying the problems or blaming the US.

But if you are serious that Bernie is your top pick, then LISTEN to what he said :

Quote
What’s going on in Venezuela is terrible.
The economy is a disaster.
People are living in hunger and in fear.
I strongly believe there has to be an international and humanitarian effort
to improve lives for the people.
I think the evidence is clear that the last election in Venezuela was not a free and fair election,
and under international supervision, I want to see a free and fair election.

and then DON'T go beyond that :

Don't blame the US for Venezuela's trouble.
Don't deny that the economy is a disaster.
Don't deny that people are living in hunger and in fear
Don't deny that there needs to be an international and humanitarian effort to improve the lives of the people
Don't deny that the last elections were NOT free and fair.
And most of all :

DEMAND FREE AND FAIR ELECTIONS IN VENEZUELA !!!

Just like 50+ other countries, INCLUDING Japan, and the Spanish (socialist) government who stated  correctly that what's going on in Venezuela is the OPPOSITE of 'socialism'.

Please, clear your mind, stop hating the US so much, stop denying the FACTS and WORK WITH ME.
I'm the biggest Bernie fan you will ever find !

<snip, no smears, please; N.>
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Neven on April 04, 2019, 09:42:26 AM
Quote
Yes, I may sound like Trump, because in this particular case he is right.
Venezuela is in crisis.

There are dozens of countries around the world that are in crisis, some of them because of US foreign policy. In fact, you could argue that the US itself is in a huge crisis. It is an oligarchy with tens of millions of uninsured, poor people, the largest penal colony in the world, widespread corruption, engaged in war crimes all around the world on a daily basis. And it is run by a pre-fascist game show host.

But you focus on Venezuela because you are the corporate media's Pavlov dog, and now you side with the pre-fascist game show host, who is 'right' because he wants a) a better oil deal with Venezuela by b) replacing the evil socialists with neoliberal sociopaths.

Your indignation is arbitrary, because all this is about, is oil and socialism. Where are your hundreds of comments on Yemen or Congo?

Quote
Any attempt to shuv this under the rug is counterproductive.
It just plays into the hands of Trump.

Let me explain :
Trump says that Venezuela failed and it failed because it is 'socialist'.
And at the same time he promotes this message that Bernie is 'socialist'.

This is an obvious attempt to link Bernie (the most popular Democratic candidate at this point) to the failed state of Venezuela.

And so your proposal is to throw the Venezuelan people under the bus, or at least that 50% of the people (at least) who don't want to replace Chavismo with your crony capitalism. By squeezing them with illegal sanctions and covert regime change operations.

Have you ever read a history book? Don't you see where this is going? In the 70s you'd be rooting for Pinochet.

Quote
1) Deny that there is a crisis in Venezuela, and
2) If there is a crisis, that it is caused by the US and its sanctions.

Nobody is denying that there's a crisis in Venezuela, but it's blown out of all proportions by establishment media to manufacture consent. And yes, the US sanctions are a big part of it.

Do you know what manufacturing consent is? You're an active part of that, and that is why I restrict your commenting on this forum.

Quote
But if you are serious that Bernie is your top pick, then LISTEN to what he said :

First of all, not everything Bernie says, is gospel truth (especially if it's not about the US crisis). Second, what Bernie does wrong here, is play right into the narrative the warmongers want to establish, just like Iraq and the WMDs. In itself there is nothing wrong with what he said, but he should make clear in the first place that the US should not engage in covert or overt regime change operations/wars, and that it's important that the sanctions are cancelled asap, and that Venezuela should be helped to cut its dependency on oil (also because of AGW).

There's no such nuance in your comments, Rob. Even if you're not aware of it, you're a neoliberal/neocon warmonger who has absolute faith in the meritocracy because you identify with 'smart' people with an education (like you yourself are), and as soon as Sanders becomes a threat to neoliberalism, you will cut him loose and throw him under the bus, like the poor, black people of Venezuela. Because subconsciously, the reason you are so actively and zealously promoting the status quo, is that you want to protect your lifestyle.

It's not about the American Dream, it's about your American Dream.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on April 04, 2019, 09:52:23 AM
Quote
Yes, I may sound like Trump, because in this particular case he is right.
Venezuela is in crisis.

There are dozens of countries around the world that are in crisis, some of them because of US foreign policy. In fact, you could argue that the US itself is in a huge crisis. It is an oligarchy with tens of millions of uninsured, poor people, the largest penal colony in the world, widespread corruption, engaged in war crimes all around the world on a daily basis. And it is run by a pre-fascist game show host.

But you focus on Venezuela because you are the corporate media's Pavlov dog, and now you side with the pre-fascist game show host, who is 'right' because he wants a) a better oil deal with Venezuela by b) replacing the evil socialists with neoliberal sociopaths.

Your indignation is arbitrary, because all this is about, is oil and socialism. Where are your hundreds of comments on Yemen or Congo?

Neven, you really don't get it ?
You are being led into a trap :

A trap set by Trump to link Venezuela to 'socialism' and 'socialism' to Bernie, in an attempt to discredit Bernie as a presidential candidate.

You are walking right into Trump's trap, and in your rage and anger against the US, you don't even notice the people that SHOW IT TO YOU (like me, right now) !

Quote
Quote
Any attempt to shuv this under the rug is counterproductive.
It just plays into the hands of Trump.

Let me explain :
Trump says that Venezuela failed and it failed because it is 'socialist'.
And at the same time he promotes this message that Bernie is 'socialist'.

This is an obvious attempt to link Bernie (the most popular Democratic candidate at this point) to the failed state of Venezuela.

And so your proposal is to throw the Venezuelan people under the bus, or at least that 50% of the people (at least) who don't want to replace Chavismo with your crony capitalism. By squeezing them with illegal sanctions and covert regime change operations.

Where did you get the 50 % from ?
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on April 04, 2019, 10:31:33 AM
Quote
1) Deny that there is a crisis in Venezuela, and
2) If there is a crisis, that it is caused by the US and its sanctions.

Nobody is denying that there's a crisis in Venezuela, ...

Lurk's post of Eva Bartlett's piece above literally says : "I don't see a 'crisis' in Caracas".
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on April 04, 2019, 10:34:44 AM
Quote
Yes, I may sound like Trump, because in this particular case he is right.
Venezuela is in crisis.

There are dozens of countries around the world that are in crisis, some of them because of US foreign policy.

Name one with more than 1 million percent inflation.
Or name one that is selling the gold from their central bank.

And name one who got there because of US foreign policy.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on April 04, 2019, 10:43:17 AM
Quote
But if you are serious that Bernie is your top pick, then LISTEN to what he said :

First of all, not everything Bernie says, is gospel truth (especially if it's not about the US crisis). Second, what Bernie does wrong here, is play right into the narrative the warmongers want to establish, just like Iraq and the WMDs. In itself there is nothing wrong with what he said, but he should make clear in the first place that the US should not engage in covert or overt regime change operations/wars, and that it's important that the sanctions are cancelled asap, and that Venezuela should be helped to cut its dependency on oil (also because of AGW).

If he got Venezuela wrong, why is Bernie your top pick for president of the US, Neven ?
Wouldn't Tulsi Gabbard be a better choice for you ?
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on April 04, 2019, 10:48:17 AM
Even if you're not aware of it, you're a neoliberal/neocon warmonger who has absolute faith in the meritocracy because you identify with 'smart' people with an education (like you yourself are), and as soon as Sanders becomes a threat to neoliberalism, you will cut him loose and throw him under the bus, like the poor, black people of Venezuela. Because subconsciously, the reason you are so actively and zealously promoting the status quo, is that you want to protect your lifestyle.

OK, I guess. If you say so.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Neven on April 04, 2019, 12:13:13 PM
Lurk's post of Eva Bartlett's piece above literally says : "I don't see a 'crisis' in Caracas".

Yes, and a certain David Viner once said that kids in the UK would never see snow again. He represents all scientists, and hence AGW is a hoax.

You go dig for one quote by one person, and then you smear a whole group. You engage in the same tactics as climate risk deniers.

And even then, she says 'Caracas', which isn't all of 'Venezuela'.

Name one with more than 1 million percent inflation.
Or name one that is selling the gold from their central bank.

And name one who got there because of US foreign policy.

No two countries are the same. I can name you one with more than 1 million dead people because of US foreign policy. I can name you another one that is completely devastated because of US meddling. And I'm sure that in the past there have been other countries in the past with more than 1 million percent of inflation, selling its gold, more or less enhanced by illegal sanctions.

The point is: The media doesn't make a fuss about those other countries, except when it's about regime change that serves US corporate interests. And you only care when the media tells you to.

Quote
If he got Venezuela wrong, why is Bernie your top pick for president of the US, Neven ?
Wouldn't Tulsi Gabbard be a better choice for you ?

Bernie doesn't get Venezuela wrong (stop twisting words like a climate risk denier), he frames it the wrong way, playing into the hands of those who are trying to establish a narrative that manufactures consent, so they can go make money off of other people's misery. Bernie needs to frame it in a different way, by emphasizing that Trump/Pompeo/Bolton/Abrams/Rob Dekker need to stop meddling, that the illegal US sanctions need to be lifted asap, and that only then is there a need for open and fair elections (they aren't fair because of the sanctions) and a way forward where the US and Venezuela work together to decrease Venezuela's dependency on AGW-inducing oil.

What happened to 'resist Trump at every turn'? First you help him with Russiagate, now you help him with his corporate warmongering, so the neoliberal stooges can pump oil more efficiently and put the profits in their own pockets (hence no better than the corrupt system now in place). You're no better than a Putin puppet, Rob.

No, actually, you are better.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: sidd on April 04, 2019, 08:46:58 PM
China denies reports of troops in VZ:

 https://www.rt.com/news/455469-china-refutes-military-venezuela/

sidd
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on April 05, 2019, 07:25:16 AM
Lurk's post of Eva Bartlett's piece above literally says : "I don't see a 'crisis' in Caracas".

Yes, and a certain David Viner once said that kids in the UK would never see snow again. He represents all scientists, and hence AGW is a hoax.

You go dig for one quote by one person, and then you smear a whole group. You engage in the same tactics as climate risk deniers.

And even then, she says 'Caracas', which isn't all of 'Venezuela'.

Thank you for comparing Eva Bartlett's piece to David Viner's statement.
Because both were wrong.

Let's take the second one I mentioned : Max Blumenthal.

Here is his piece :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbXqGiNlWWw

"A lot of meat", "we have a lot of meat", "a whole isle". etc etc.

Same at Bartlett : My number 1) Deny that there is a crisis.
and here and there a hint of my number 2) If there is a crisis, it's caused by the US.

Seriously, Neven. You are betting on the wrong horse.

And you are giving "progressives" a really, really bad name.

And you are hurting Bernie too.

Quote
Bernie needs to frame it in a different way, by emphasizing that Trump/Pompeo/Bolton/Abrams/Rob Dekker need to stop meddling, that the illegal US sanctions need to be lifted asap, and that only then is there a need for open and fair elections (they aren't fair because of the sanctions) and a way forward where the US and Venezuela work together to decrease Venezuela's dependency on AGW-inducing oil.

No matter what you want Bernie to do, let me assure you that he knows what he is doing.
He will NOT object against the sanctions, nor deny (as your "friends" do) the severity of the crisis in Venezuela. Heck even your other favorite : Tulsi Gabbard, does not even object against the sanctions either.

You understand why, right, Neven ?

I am simply promoting Bernie's position, and if you are serious about Bernie as a president, PLEASE stop supporting these extremists on the left, stop beating on me with ad hominem attacks, and stop denying the FACTS about Venezuela.

Face it : Venezuela is BROKE, Neven. And caused by their OWN policies.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on April 05, 2019, 07:54:33 AM
Lurk's post of Eva Bartlett's piece above literally says : "I don't see a 'crisis' in Caracas".

Yes, and a certain David Viner once said that kids in the UK would never see snow again. He represents all scientists, and hence AGW is a hoax.

You go dig for one quote by one person, and then you smear a whole group. You engage in the same tactics as climate risk deniers.

And even then, she says 'Caracas', which isn't all of 'Venezuela'.

Thank you for comparing Eva Bartlett's piece to David Viner's statement.
Because both were wrong.

Let's take the second one I mentioned : Max Blumenthal.

Here is his piece :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbXqGiNlWWw

"A lot of meat", "we have a lot of meat", "a whole isle". etc etc.

Same at Bartlett : My number 1) Deny that there is a crisis.
and here and there a hint of my number 2) If there is a crisis, it's caused by the US.

Should I go on ? Because The Real News is guilty too.

Seriously, Neven. You are betting on the wrong horse.

And you are giving "progressives" a really, really bad name.

And you are hurting Bernie too.

Quote
Bernie needs to frame it in a different way, by emphasizing that Trump/Pompeo/Bolton/Abrams/Rob Dekker need to stop meddling, that the illegal US sanctions need to be lifted asap, and that only then is there a need for open and fair elections (they aren't fair because of the sanctions) and a way forward where the US and Venezuela work together to decrease Venezuela's dependency on AGW-inducing oil.

No matter what you want Bernie to do, let me assure you that he knows what he is doing.
He will NOT object against the sanctions, nor deny (as your "friends" do) the severity of the crisis in Venezuela. Heck even your other favorite : Tulsi Gabbard, does not even object against the sanctions either.

You understand why, right, Neven ?

I am simply promoting Bernie's position, and if you are serious about Bernie as a president, PLEASE stop supporting these extremists on the left, stop beating on me with ad hominem attacks, and stop denying the FACTS about Venezuela.

Face it : Venezuela is BROKE, Neven. And caused by their OWN policies.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Neven on April 05, 2019, 09:17:36 AM
Thank you for comparing Eva Bartlett's piece to David Viner's statement.
Because both were wrong.

Thank you for admitting that you then use that to smear whomever it is you want to smear, just like a climate risk denier.

Quote
Let's take the second one I mentioned : Max Blumenthal.

Here is his piece :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbXqGiNlWWw

"A lot of meat", "we have a lot of meat", "a whole isle". etc etc.

Same at Bartlett : My number 1) Deny that there is a crisis.
and here and there a hint of my number 2) If there is a crisis, it's caused by the US.

Ah, so mainstream media hasn't been exaggerating the crisis, implying that people are starving because there is no food?

And yes, if there's a crisis, it has certainly been made worse by the US, because it serves US corporate interests, and those interests want Venezuela's oil. And they want to destroy socialism because it isn't good for their bottom line (ie squeezing people out).

Quote
Seriously, Neven. You are betting on the wrong horse.

I'm not betting on any horse. The point is: You are trying to force me to bet because you are a compulsive gambler yourself.

Quote
And you are giving "progressives" a really, really bad name.

And you are hurting Bernie too.

You are concern trolling.

Quote
No matter what you want Bernie to do, let me assure you that he knows what he is doing.

Yes, he probably knows that there are many people like you out there, and he needs your votes.

Quote
He will NOT object against the sanctions, nor deny (as your "friends" do) the severity of the crisis in Venezuela. Heck even your other favorite : Tulsi Gabbard, does not even object against the sanctions either.

You understand why, right, Neven ?

Yes, because the USA is a sick country, a force for evil.

Quote
Face it : Venezuela is BROKE, Neven. And caused by their OWN policies.

Yes, and the point is: Many countries are, but that gets zero attention. This gets so much attention because of oil and socialism. And you play right into it.

You remind me of this line of poetry:

While the worst
Are full of passionate intensity
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on April 05, 2019, 09:41:17 AM
Quote
He will NOT object against the sanctions, nor deny (as your "friends" do) the severity of the crisis in Venezuela. Heck even your other favorite : Tulsi Gabbard, does not even object against the sanctions either.

You understand why, right, Neven ?

Yes, because the USA is a sick country, a force for evil.

Ah. Of course.

Sorry, Neven, I tried to talk sense into you, with FACTS and all, but to no avail.

I'm going to leave you with your anger and hatred of the US now.

Have fun with it.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on April 08, 2019, 04:27:57 AM
Here's one of Venezuela's possible futures - becoming like Libya in the years form now. It depends.

Quote
Pentagon orders troops to leave Libya which it helped destabilize, laments ‘security conditions’
Published time: 7 Apr, 2019

Washington, following Hillary Clinton's 'sage advice'  played a significant critical role in turning Libya from a rather stable nation into a chaotic free-for-all battle zone of death and destruction.

But now the Pentagon says it is too dangerous for American troops to stay on the ground. Poor buggers, they are not safe! OMG.

The US Africa Command announced Sunday that it was pulling out a small contingent, which was deployed in Libya a few years ago to assist airstrikes against forces loyal to the terrorist group Islamic State (IS, formerly ISIS).

The move came in response to the latest escalation of violence in the country. “We will continue to monitor conditions on the ground and assess the feasibility for renewed US military presence, as appropriate,” said Nate Herring, an AFRICOM spokesman

IMHO for the safety of the whole world, the US Military presence must be constrained by Force within US Territory alone - like what happened to Japan from 1945, it needs a new Constitution that makes aggressive military action in other nations Unconstitutional and therefore Illegal by Law. :) 

At the moment there are two main competing governments in Libya, one recognized by the UN and based in the capital Tripoli and another one in the eastern city of Tobruk.

DOH~!!!

https://www.rt.com/news/455788-us-troops-leave-libya/

Quote
There are two main competing forces in Libya at the moment: a rather defunct, UN-recognized government in the capital Tripoli and its allied militias, and a rival parliament in Tobruk, supported by Haftar’s forces, who control most of the country.

Their military commander ordered his troops to move on the capital in an “anti-terrorist” operation last week, forcing Tripoli to mobilize their own forces.

“We have made clear that we oppose the military offensive by Khalifa Haftar’s forces and urge the immediate halt to these military operations against the Libyan capital. Forces should return to status quo ante positions,” Pompeo’s statement read.

    US "deeply concerned about fighting near Tripoli," says @SecPompeo in a statement about the situation in #Libya. pic.twitter.com/b649KOFCTm
    — Steve Herman (@W7VOA) April 8, 2019

Libya remains a fractured land, with no centralized power, ever since the ‘humanitarian’ NATO intervention and airstrike campaign in 2011 decimated the country’s military and helped armed rebels assassinate strongman Muammar Gaddafi.

DOH~!!! Who could have known it would end up like this? 

Anyone with the intelligence level of a cockroach would have!

https://www.rt.com/news/455829-us-demands-haftar-halt-libya/

Far too many Americans, and especially those in powerful positions, are murderous warmongering psychos!

Those who support them and cheer for them are lower on life's scale than cockroaches.  ;D

Not too bad this overview by Jimmy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7eW4ASIo3I

The choice is simple. Empire or Death?

But, in 2019, “a political solution is the only way to unify the country and provide a plan for security, stability, and prosperity for all Libyans,” the US State Department believes in all earnest, while urging all involved parties to urgently de-escalate the situation.

Pompeo’s plea comes as the Pentagon pulled its remaining small contingent out of Libya, saying it was too dangerous for American troops to stay on the ground.

Oh no, but that is not the way to go in Venezuela see, get the troops out of Libya and then redeploy them to destroying Venezuela instead - such is the "brilliance" of American lies and their insanities!
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on April 08, 2019, 04:35:53 AM
Here's one of Venezuela's possible futures - becoming like Libya in the years form now. It depends.

Quote
Pentagon orders troops to leave Libya which it helped destabilize, laments ‘security conditions’
Published time: 7 Apr, 2019

Washington, following Hillary Clinton's 'sage advice'  played a significant critical role in turning Libya from a rather stable nation into a chaotic free-for-all battle zone of death and destruction.

But now the Pentagon says it is too dangerous for American troops to stay on the ground. Poor buggers, they are not safe! OMG.

The US Africa Command announced Sunday that it was pulling out a small contingent, which was deployed in Libya a few years ago to assist airstrikes against forces loyal to the terrorist group Islamic State (IS, formerly ISIS).

The move came in response to the latest escalation of violence in the country. “We will continue to monitor conditions on the ground and assess the feasibility for renewed US military presence, as appropriate,” said Nate Herring, an AFRICOM spokesman

IMHO for the safety of the whole world, the US Military presence must be constrained by Force within US Territory alone - like what happened to Japan from 1945, it needs a new Constitution that makes aggressive military action in other nations Unconstitutional and therefore Illegal by Law. :) 

At the moment there are two main competing governments in Libya, one recognized by the UN and based in the capital Tripoli and another one in the eastern city of Tobruk.

DOH~!!!

https://www.rt.com/news/455788-us-troops-leave-libya/

Quote
There are two main competing forces in Libya at the moment: a rather defunct, UN-recognized government in the capital Tripoli and its allied militias, and a rival parliament in Tobruk, supported by Haftar’s forces, who control most of the country.

Their military commander ordered his troops to move on the capital in an “anti-terrorist” operation last week, forcing Tripoli to mobilize their own forces.

“We have made clear that we oppose the military offensive by Khalifa Haftar’s forces and urge the immediate halt to these military operations against the Libyan capital. Forces should return to status quo ante positions,” Pompeo’s statement read.

    US "deeply concerned about fighting near Tripoli," says @SecPompeo in a statement about the situation in #Libya. pic.twitter.com/b649KOFCTm
    — Steve Herman (@W7VOA) April 8, 2019

Libya remains a fractured land, with no centralized power, ever since the ‘humanitarian’ NATO intervention and airstrike campaign in 2011 decimated the country’s military and helped armed rebels assassinate strongman Muammar Gaddafi.

DOH~!!! Who could have known it would end up like this? 

Anyone with the intelligence level of a cockroach would have!

https://www.rt.com/news/455829-us-demands-haftar-halt-libya/

Far too many Americans, and especially those in powerful positions, are murderous warmongering psychos!

Those who support them and cheer for them are lower on life's scale than cockroaches.  ;D

Not too bad this overview by Jimmy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7eW4ASIo3I

The choice is simple. The Empire dies or more and more Death?

Quote
But, in 2019, “a political solution is the only way to unify the country and provide a plan for security, stability, and prosperity for all Libyans,” the US State Department believes in all earnest, while urging all involved parties to urgently de-escalate the situation.

Pompeo’s plea comes as the Pentagon pulled its remaining small contingent out of Libya, saying it was too dangerous for American troops to stay on the ground.

Oh no, but that is not the way to go in Venezuela see, get the troops out of Libya and then redeploy them to destroying Venezuela instead - such is the "brilliance" of American lies and their insanities!

Millions choose death! Rob is definitely towards the front of the line there. :D
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on April 08, 2019, 05:46:24 AM
Would repeating some refs help? (not likely, but anyway)

the NYTs op-ed propaganda element, did not disclose the relationships of one Joanna Hausmann, who is the daughter of Ricardo Hausmann, a former minister of planning of Venezuela and former Chief Economist of the Inter-American Development Bank ...

Hausmann is a strongly biased IMF/Neoliberal 'think tank' operative with multiple degrees - you know the chigago economists who first used their skills when General Pinochet toppled the democratically elected government in Chile in 1975. (anything seem familiar? )

Director of the Center for International Development at Harvard University and a professor of economics at the Harvard Kennedy School. He has recently been appointed as Governor of Venezuela at the Inter-American Development Bank by Interim President Juan Guaidó.
https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/ricardo-hausmann-asks-why-growth-rates-are-converging-among-some-countries-and-diverging-among-others?barrier=accesspaylog

So Hausmann is a whilte jewish "venezuelan" who used to be a Minister in the extreme right wing Government that was toppled at the polls by Chafez
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ricardo_Hausmann

When the "ruling junta" of ~200 white venezuelan wealthy families who had ruled the country for over 200 years was democratically voted out of office in 1998, the Hausmann family packed up and went to America to live permanently.   

The Hugo Chávez presidency

By the 1998 elections more than half the Venezuelan populace was below the poverty line, while annual inflation exceeded 30 percent and oil prices were in steep decline. The voters rejected the traditional political parties of Democratic Action and COPEI and elected Chávez as president.

At the same time, his coalition became the largest voting bloc in the legislature.

Chávez’s political platform promised to rid the country of corruption, help the poor, and reduce the power of elites.

The Elites, the Corrupt, the manipulative greedy power abusing Wealthy, were the ruling class just like the Ricardo Hausmann Family. "Govt. Policy" doesn't arise in a vacuum. :)

Chavez pledged to write a new constitution and remake Venezuelan democracy. In mid-1999 Venezuelans elected a constituent assembly dominated by pro-Chávez delegates, and voters soon approved a new constitution by referendum.
https://www.britannica.com/place/Venezuela/The-Hugo-Chavez-presidency

How to End Venezuela's Nightmare by Ricardo Hausmann - Project ...
https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/ending-the-venezuelan-nightmare-by-ricardo-hausmann-2018-12

3 Dec 2018 ... Ricardo Hausmann, a former minister of planning of Venezuela and former Chief Economist of the Inter-American Development Bank .....
Venezuela’s problems will not be solved without regime change. And that could – and should – happen after January 10, when the international community will no longer recognize the legitimacy of Nicolás Maduro's presidency.

https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/ending-the-venezuelan-nightmare-by-ricardo-hausmann-2018-12

The walnut doesn't fall far from the tree. Or is that getting way too personal?

When the Hausmanns are publicly backing in the Regime Change policies and actions of President Donald Trump, John Bolton, Pompeo, Abrams and Juan Qaido's elitist wealthy white race minority in Venezuela. :D
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on April 08, 2019, 05:54:29 AM

https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/remittances-not-only-benefit-to-homeland-economies-by-ricardo-hausmann-2015-06

https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/ricardo-hausmann-asks-why-growth-rates-are-converging-among-some-countries-and-diverging-among-others

data mining analysis to push a pre-existing biased narrative without real evidence to support it
https://growthlab.cid.harvard.edu/files/growthlab/files/ven_emigration_cidwp342.pdf

the "Expert"
https://www.cgdev.org/expert/ricardo-hausmann

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ricardo_Hausmann

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joanna_Hausmann

The "Pernicious"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RC7KQSdxR0
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on April 08, 2019, 06:09:26 AM
from the jimmy dore video above @ 23:45 mins

Quote
... by the way, I think if you want to know
the truth about Venezuela I go right to
a food writer yeah. Boy uh white Hispanic
from the Miami area who's Pro-Regime
change in South America. What a fuckin'
shocker.

The complete denial of America's long
history of overthrowing countries that
won't give us their natural resources is
just funny to me.

And they keep contradicting themselves
and then this "dad" playing the sexism
card  - it's so great yeah. Anytime you
you call out the ruling class for who they
really are,
the war mongers, the only
thing they have left is the Hail Mary pass
of 'Identity Politics' hoping that there's
some sort of groundswell of #MeToo
jumps on you or whatever, even though
it was a woman that was  calling out his
daughter
.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on April 08, 2019, 08:51:19 AM
Here's one of Venezuela's possible futures - becoming like Libya in the years form now. It depends.

Yes, it does.

If Maduro will start shooting and killing protesters, just like Gaddafi did, then yeah. NATO will quite quickly kick in and Venezuela will turn into another Libya.

I still hope that Maduro will have a sense of rationale and will realize that it's time to go, and he will step down voluntarily for UN-supervised elections to be conducted.

(https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/170412184031-05-venezuela-protest-0408-super-169.jpg)

Thousands of demonstrators protest against Maduro in Caracas on Saturday, April 8.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on April 08, 2019, 09:02:25 AM
There's no room for racism or classism in these matters that can lead to a good outcome. Peace must be born of Justice. Justice can only come by true Fraternity, in a broad sense of Brotherhood. Where my country is the world; and my fellow citizens are all humankind.

Enlightened souls have long been calling to remove the causes of War; all selfish seeking; all aggression by any nation upon the rights of others must cease. Peace can only come from the growth of wisdom, by enlightenment in the foundation principles of justice, love and truth.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on April 08, 2019, 09:05:05 AM
Here's one of Venezuela's possible futures - becoming like Libya in the years form now. It depends.

Yes, it does.

If Maduro will start shooting and killing protesters, just like Gaddafi did, then yeah. NATO will quite quickly kick in and Venezuela will turn into another Libya.

I still hope that Maduro will have a sense of rationale and will realize that it's time to go, and he will step down voluntarily for UN-supervised elections to be conducted.

(https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/170412184031-05-venezuela-protest-0408-super-169.jpg)

Tens of thousands of demonstrators protest against Maduro in Caracas this weekend.

(https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/160901164524-venzuela-protest-0901-restricted-exlarge-169.jpg)

(https://www.abc.net.au/news/image/7807620-3x2-700x467.jpg)

A change is gonna come !
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: b_lumenkraft on April 08, 2019, 09:30:34 AM
“Enlightenment is man's release from his self-incurred tutelage. Tutelage is man's inability to make use of his understanding without direction from another. Self-incurred is this tutelage when its cause lies not in lack of reason but in lack of resolution and courage to use it without direction from another. Sapere Aude! 'Have courage to use your own reason!'- that is the motto of enlightenment.”

Immanuel Kant
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on April 08, 2019, 10:32:23 AM
Here's one of Venezuela's possible futures - becoming like Libya in the years form now. It depends.

Yes, it does.

If Maduro will start shooting and killing protesters, just like Gaddafi did, then yeah. NATO will quite quickly kick in and Venezuela will turn into another Libya.

I still hope that Maduro will have a sense of rationale and will realize that it's time to go, and he will step down voluntarily for UN-supervised elections to be conducted.

(https://www.dw.com/image/48240043_303.jpg)

Tens of thousands of demonstrators protest against Maduro in Caracas this weekend.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D3fuzc3W4AAYRJc.jpg)

and more ...

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D3fPmHBXoAAB8iX.jpg)

A change is gonna come !
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Neven on April 08, 2019, 01:40:13 PM
A regime change is gonna come !

Fixed that for you.

I watched an interesting interview yesterday with someone who has spent many years in Venezuela and knows the country and its (poor) people well. This is part 2, which I found more interesting (quotes below):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5GQUUkQp5M

Quote
Charlie Hardy: At the same time, you don't, I don't see the demonstrations that much in favour of the government and there are massive demonstrations Maduro.
Greg Wilpert: As a matter of fact, they've been happening every Saturday, apparently. And we'll show some images of that.

Images that Rob Dekker won't show because they aren't reported by mainstream warmongering media, and thus aren't FACTS.

Quote
Charlie Hardy: I saw more people on the streets of Chicago a few weeks ago, begging, in three minutes than I saw in the two months I was in Caracas. I heard someone on Fox News, Trish Regan, saying 'millions are starving' in Venezuela. You know, when I think of someone starving, I'm thinking of people in Africa or somewhere else, skin and bones on a bed, waiting to die. And I'm ready to say there's no one starving in Venezuela. I just cannot believe there is anyone starving. But it is a tough situation.

More poor people in the US than people in Venezuela, more beggars, more prisoners, more surveillance, more election fraud, but the mainstream warmongering media says that 'millions are starving in Venezuela because of a dictator', and so that's a FACT and regime change is gonna come!

Charlie Hardy then goes on to explain that this isn't just about oil and destroying socialism (the big threat to neoliberalism), but also about coltan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coltan). Apparently, there is 100 billion worth of coltan under Venezuela's soil. A privatisation is gonna come!

Quote
Charlie Hardy: I think there's a book by Andrew McCabe, where president Trump says: The country we should go to war with, is Venezuela, they have oil.

Someone from the intelligence community has said this, and so it's a FACT, because all intelligence people are heroes and freedom fighters.

Quote
Charlie Hardy: There is a quotation by president Trump that I like a lot. I have it written down, December 7th 2016, president-elect Donald Trump says in Fayetteville, North Carolina: 'We will stop racing to topple foreign regimes that we know nothing about. This destructive cycle of interventions and chaos must finally come to an end.' Oh, that gave me so much hope. I mean, it's so.. 'destructive cycle of interventions and chaos must finally come to an end'. That was after he was elected.
Greg Wilpert: I think the operative phrase there is probably 'countries we know nothing about'. In the meantime, he found out about the oil, and about the coltan and all the other opportunities to make money. Of course, using as a pretext... I mean, the hypocrisy is just unbelievable.

There you have it, this is something that you can slap Trump around the ears with. 'Remember how Trump said he wasn't going to meddle and topple any longer? Well, here he is, pushing for regime change in Venezuela for oil and other resources.' Maybe someone like Bernie has said something like this along these lines. I don't know, Rob only posts FACTS.

It's a perfect way to resist Trump, but Rob prefers to help Trump, especially when it comes to violence. Bernie or anybody else, instead of playing into that narrative that pushes to manufacture consent for crippling illegal sanctions or military intervention, they must fight that narrative tooth and nail, and hang it around Trump's neck. They must call for an end to the sanctions and full cooperation with Venezuela to help it wean itself off of its dependence on oil (because that oil needs to stay in the ground and not be pumped out more efficiently by neoliberal privatisation that Rob is pushing for!). That's the way to effectively resist Trump.

The way Rob likes to see it, is the exact wrong way to go about it. But that's because Rob is told what to think by mainstream warmongering media.

The last 6-7 minutes is about the propaganda that is spewed out by mainstream warmongering media (army turning against Maduro, burning trucks, etc). Sorry, I meant FACTS, of course.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on April 09, 2019, 07:02:09 AM
A regime change is gonna come !

Fixed that for you.

I hope so. The Venezuelan people deserve a restoration of Democracy and freedom.

Tell me, Neven : If Maduro still is as popular as you pretend him to be, why doesn't he allow free, UN supervised elections, just like what Bernie is asking for ?

It's not like they are not asking for it :

(https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/170514121616-03-venezuela-protest-0510-super-169.jpg)
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on April 09, 2019, 07:17:48 AM
Images that Rob Dekker won't show because they aren't reported by mainstream warmongering media, and thus aren't FACTS.

Sounds like a conspiracy theory to me.

Do you actually believe that MSM does not report pro-Maduro rallies ?
And that they don't report these rallies because they are "war-mongering" ?
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on April 09, 2019, 07:46:19 AM
I watched an interesting interview yesterday with someone who has spent many years in Venezuela and knows the country and its (poor) people well. This is part 2, which I found more interesting (quotes below):

OK. Here is an American guy who loves Chavez and cried when the man died.
He wrote a book about him.
Fine.

But PLEASE take anything this guy says about Venezuela with a grain of salt.

For example, at 2:00 he states that he believes that "nobody is starving in Venezuela".

OK. Do you believe him ?

Or do you believe that Venezuelan woman who now lives on $2/day in Columbia but won't go back to Venezuela because at least in Columbia her kids can eat :

https://youtu.be/wdcrFVXhLdU

Who to believe ?
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Neven on April 09, 2019, 09:24:11 AM
A regime change is gonna come !

Fixed that for you.

I hope so. The Venezuelan people deserve a restoration of Democracy and freedom.

Tell me, Neven : If Maduro still is as popular as you pretend him to be, why doesn't he allow free, UN supervised elections, just like what Bernie is asking for ?

It's not like they are not asking for it :

(https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/170514121616-03-venezuela-protest-0510-super-169.jpg)

Looks a bit like Occupy Wall Street, doesn't it? Or the Gilets Jaunes. Any regime change in the US or France after that?
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Neven on April 09, 2019, 09:25:59 AM
Images that Rob Dekker won't show because they aren't reported by mainstream warmongering media, and thus aren't FACTS.

Sounds like a conspiracy theory to me.

Do you actually believe that MSM does not report pro-Maduro rallies ?
And that they don't report these rallies because they are "war-mongering" ?

Yes. They are pushing the narrative to convince people like you (that are easily convinced) that it's time for yet another regime change, after all the other successful ones.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Neven on April 09, 2019, 09:29:28 AM
Who to believe ?

Apparently, you have decided to believe Fox News saying that millions are starving in Venezuela.

And thanks for ignoring my other points, like you always do. Want me to post videos of poverty and starving people in the US? Or anywhere else around the world for that matter, that you don't care about in your nice little, neoliberal, meritocratic, privileged bubble.

When can we expect you to call for regime change in Iran? You're a bit late to the party. Here, let me blow the dog whistle for you: Dictator in Iran!
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on April 09, 2019, 09:42:55 AM
Who to believe ?

Apparently, you have decided to believe Fox News saying that millions are starving in Venezuela.

Actually it was TRT who did that report.
That's a Turkish news agency.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on April 09, 2019, 09:47:30 AM
Images that Rob Dekker won't show because they aren't reported by mainstream warmongering media, and thus aren't FACTS.

Sounds like a conspiracy theory to me.

Do you actually believe that MSM does not report pro-Maduro rallies ?
And that they don't report these rallies because they are "war-mongering" ?

Yes. They are pushing the narrative to convince people like you (that are easily convinced) that it's time for yet another regime change, after all the other successful ones.

Is that YES to the first question, or the second ? Or both ?
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on April 09, 2019, 10:09:38 AM
A regime change is gonna come !

Fixed that for you.

I hope so. The Venezuelan people deserve a restoration of Democracy and freedom.

Tell me, Neven : If Maduro still is as popular as you pretend him to be, why doesn't he allow free, UN supervised elections, just like what Bernie is asking for ?

It's not like they are not asking for it :

(https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/170514121616-03-venezuela-protest-0510-super-169.jpg)

Looks a bit like Occupy Wall Street, doesn't it? Or the Gilets Jaunes. Any regime change in the US or France after that?

Does it ?

Please post a similar picture from the US or France.

And then please explain why you support the Venezuelan government, but not the US or France.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Neven on April 09, 2019, 11:38:30 AM
Actually it was TRT who did that report.
That's a Turkish news agency.

So, is TRT saying that millions are starving in Venezuela, and do you automatically believe that?

Is that YES to the first question, or the second ? Or both ?

Yes to both. I know, I know, now you are going to find one article or news report by a mainstream media outlet that acknowledges that there are pro-Maduro rallies as well (bam, FACT, eat that, Neven). But go ahead, and compare how much attention pro-Maduro rallies get in mainstream media vs pro-Guaido rallies.

For instance, here's a CNN article (https://edition.cnn.com/2019/03/10/americas/venezuela-divided-and-dark/index.html) from March 11th mentioning that there are rallies both pro the one and the other, but no specifics, and almost the tnire article is about Guaido and ends with this:

Quote
Pompeo posted a photo of Guaido's rally with the caption: "The people of #Venezuela have again responded to @jguaido's call to take to the streets in support of freedom and democracy.

Amazing... That sounds just like this from Rob Dekker: The Venezuelan people deserve a restoration of Democracy and freedom.

And then please explain why you support the Venezuelan government, but not the US or France.

I do not support the Venezuelan government per se. I'm against Trump and neoliberalism. Unlike you.

I await your analysis of mainstream media coverage with bated breath.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on April 09, 2019, 12:51:31 PM
The Venezuelan people deserve a restoration of Democracy and freedom.

But why do they "deserve" that Rob?

It's their nation and they fucked it (apparently the US and the rest of the world had nothing to do with that), so surely they deserve a fucked up , impoverished country with no democracy, a violent fascist military junta, and an unelected president like they have in Qaido.

They've had multiple elections, UN supervised and not UN supervised and look what that got them - Chavez, a new really DEMOCRATIC Constitution, poverty cut in half, proper medical care for the poor, but the rich hated it. So now all there is is chaos and humanitarian crisis that looks like a rich persons banquet next to Yemen.

They got what they deserved, and more is coming their way!

Ms Hausmann might even return "home" with her Papa real soon to give free comedy routines to cheer them all up and maybe even raise money for charity there to help them buy their "freedom"?
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Neven on April 09, 2019, 01:02:15 PM
If you want free and fair elections, you first need to lift the sanctions. Because now, what you are effectively saying, is: Vote for neoliberal stooge, or we will tighten the sanctions. How is that for election manipulation?

Never mind all the social media manipulations that are most probably going on behind the scenes. If Russia and Cambridge Analytica can do it, so can the people who invented it (NSA, CIA, etc).

Speaking of social media manipulation, I checked who posted that Joanna Hausmann video in this thread. That person must feel pretty stupid now, and if not, it's more than a feeling.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on April 09, 2019, 01:41:40 PM
Quote
Tell me, Neven : If Maduro still is as popular as you pretend him to be, why doesn't he allow free, UN supervised elections, just like what Bernie is asking for ?

HOw quickly Dilbert forgets that it was the OPPOSITION who demanded the UN not come and supervise the last free democratic elections, which they chose to Boycott.

If the Opposition was so SURE they were popular and good for the nation then why did they NOT run a proper Presidential Campaing and help get the UN ot supervise the process and alert the world if they were being corrupted?

I'll tell you, because Uncle Sam said don't worry about it, you will never win a free and fair elections there, so we need to bide our time. Once the sanctions impacts kick in then the OPPOSITION can put up an alternative President and when he gets POWER, suspends the Constitution because of the crisis there, then the next "elections" will be in the bag.

Of course Maduro barely won that last election .. so much for shooting yourself in the foot!!! Dumb and dumber that is. 

Unfortunately not only do Americans have pathetic memories about Free fair UN supervised elections regarding Venezuela - many are also quite dumb - so much in fact they think other people are just as dumb as they are. ;)
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on April 09, 2019, 01:43:07 PM
PS in the bigger scheme of things, life on earth and all that, Venezuela does not even rate a mention these days in any of the worlds media. It's a page 10 story if that.

Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on April 09, 2019, 01:53:29 PM
 Bolsonaro says Brazil & US focus on creating ‘rift’ within Venezuelan army to oust Maduro
Published time: 9 Apr, 2019

“It is our intention and that of the Americans that there is a rift in the army, because it is they who still support Maduro. It is the armed forces that decide whether a country lives in a democracy or in a dictatorship,” Bolsonaro said, adding that he does not see any future for Venezuela in its present state.

“What you cannot do is to continue as you are,” he said.

In an interview on Monday, Bolsonaro appeared to say that he might single-handedly decide if Brazil needs to join a potential US-led military incursion against the Maduro government.

“What can Brazil do? Suppose there is a military invasion there [from the United States]. The decision will be mine, but I will listen to the National Defense Council and then the Parliament,” Bolsonaro pledged.

https://www.rt.com/news/455932-brazil-venezuela-rift-military/

What happened to all those free and fair democratic UN supervised elections then?

ROFL, oh they meant a Military Coup .. in sth amercia that is what free and fair democratic elections look like. Rob will be there handing out the How to Vote Cards while the Militias hold guns to the Voters heads.

Yay for Rob! :)
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on April 10, 2019, 09:13:06 AM
It looks like many of our conversations diverge rather than converge to common understanding.
That's why it's hard to respond to every issue raised.

So let me respond only to what I feel are some core issues.

Actually it was TRT who did that report.
That's a Turkish news agency.

So, is TRT saying that millions are starving in Venezuela, and do you automatically believe that?

What I was referring to was that guy on The Real News who claimed that "NOBODY in Venezuela is starving".

TRT did a report on that and proved this guy wrong.

The 'millions' were added by you, when you mentioned that Fox News said that.
Fox News often makes shit up, but please post a link if you make a statement like that, since then we can check where they got the number from. And if they don't provide a source, we can prove that they make shit up.

That's how evidence-based reasoning works.
So please show a link to that Fox News article where they told you that millions were starving.

Furthermore, I showed earlier that the Bartlett report inadvertently suggests that minimum wage in Venezuela buys you two hot-dogs per month.

That's starvation level income.

I don't know how many people make minimum wage in Venezuela, but I would not be surprised if there are millions of them.

Quote
Is that YES to the first question, or the second ? Or both ?

Yes to both. I know, I know, now you are going to find one article or news report by a mainstream media outlet that acknowledges that there are pro-Maduro rallies as well (bam, FACT, eat that, Neven). But go ahead, and compare how much attention pro-Maduro rallies get in mainstream media vs pro-Guaido rallies.

For instance, here's a CNN article (https://edition.cnn.com/2019/03/10/americas/venezuela-divided-and-dark/index.html) from March 11th mentioning that there are rallies both pro the one and the other, but no specifics, and almost the tnire article is about Guaido and ends with this:

Quote
Pompeo posted a photo of Guaido's rally with the caption: "The people of #Venezuela have again responded to @jguaido's call to take to the streets in support of freedom and democracy.


That CNN article is very well balanced.

Not only are the sections balanced, and they give relevant statements by all the relevant people,
they even posted BOTH a picture of Maduro at a pro-Maduro rally as well as a picture of Guaido at a pro-opposition rally.

That's the best example of "war mongering mainstream media" who are ignoring the pro-Maduro rallies you could come up with ?
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on April 10, 2019, 09:37:18 AM
It looks like many of our conversations diverge rather than converge to common understanding.
That's why it's hard to respond to every issue raised.

So let me respond only to what I feel are some core issues.

<snip, those are not the core issues, those are examples of the propaganda used to further the war and oil machine's agenda; N.>

I spent considerable time on my response to your position.
And I responded to YOUR posts. And I talked about evidence-based reasoning.
So how can that be 'propaganda' ?

Why do you censor my posts, especially the good ones ?
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Neven on April 10, 2019, 10:29:16 AM
The core issues are:

1) There's an excessive focus on Venezuela because of resources and because 'socialism' needs to be annihilated.
2) Trump isn't resisted, he is helped. The biggest mistake that can be made, is acknowledge the narrative that is used to manufacture consent for chaos around the world that is highly profitable to a small group. That narrative needs to be fought tooth and nail.
3) If you want free and fair elections, you need to protest the crippling sanctions (if you're not already protesting them out of moral convictions). Venezuela is in trouble because, although oil profits have been used for social policies that have massively improved the lives of its population over the past two decades, they have failed at cutting their dependence on oil. They need to be helped with that, also for the sake of AGW.

These are the core issues.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on April 10, 2019, 10:52:26 AM
<snip, not interested in games; N.>

Not to mention Venezuela is THE OPPOSITE of socialism.

It's a dictatorship where a few privileged (especially the military) around the dictator take all the benefits, and the rest of the country is screwed.

Neven,  on this CORE issue, can you PLEASE understand that by stating that Venezuela has 'socialism' you are actively helping Trump and are actively working AGAINST Bernie Sanders ?
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on April 10, 2019, 11:16:02 AM
The core issues are:
..
2) Trump isn't resisted, he is helped. The biggest mistake that can be made, is acknowledge the narrative that is used to manufacture consent for chaos around the world that is highly profitable to a small group. That narrative needs to be fought tooth and nail.

Yes, Trump is helped by stating that Venezuela is 'socialist'.

Venezuela is a failed state. Hyperinflation, economy in the tank, people starving, 3 million refugees, etc etc. And it will get worse now that the US decided to stop buying their oil.

ANY attempt to deny the immense crisis, or to state that Venezuela is a 'socialist' country is another handout to Trump.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on April 10, 2019, 11:29:33 AM
The core issues are:
..
3) If you want free and fair elections, you need to protest the crippling sanctions (if you're not already protesting them out of moral convictions). Venezuela is in trouble because, although oil profits have been used for social policies that have massively improved the lives of its population over the past two decades, they have failed at cutting their dependence on oil. They need to be helped with that, also for the sake of AGW.

Yes, Chavez' policies have significantly improved life for the poor in Venezuela.

The problem is that he spend it all.

He did not invest in the oil industry, and he did not save anything for a rainy day, like Norway did. In fact, he even borrowed money (from Russia and China mostly) to finance his policies, even while the price of oil went up.

So, then when Maduro came along, and the price of oil declined, the country dipped into deep debt and never recovered.

None of this has anything to do with the US, who was just buying Venezuelan oil until Jan 2019.

So now the US stopped buying Venezuelan oil.

That's it.

That's the "crippling" sanctions that Neven says we need to be "protesting them out of moral convictions" as a pre-condition before "free and fair elections" are even allowed.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on April 10, 2019, 11:52:31 AM
And besides all that there is the corruption :

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2b/TI_Corruption_score_Venezuela.png/400px-TI_Corruption_score_Venezuela.png)

Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on April 10, 2019, 03:14:56 PM
In the news these days are several countries in crisis. When will Donald Trump, Rob Dekker and co be bringing these people the Freedom and Democracy they deserve?

Sudan
Tunisia
Haiti
Ukraine
Israel
Syria
Yemen
Gabon
Afghanistan
Kashmir (east and west)
North Korea
Mozambique
Diego Garcia (people of)
Algeria
Libya
Morocco
Brazil
Ecuador
Columbia
El Salvador
Nicaragua
Guyana
Guatemala
Honduras
New Guinea
Zimbabwe
Somalia
South Sudan
Egypt
Central African Republic
Democratic Republic of the Congo
Chad
Guinea
Nigeria
and Palestine too!

or even Saudi Arabia?

Don't they deserve some freedom from tyranny and democracy too? :D

Gosh many of those countries even have extremely violent Islamists like ISIS Al Queda Terrorists running the place. 

Check out the better places 155-178 and maybe reconsider how "good" you got it. :)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Fragile_States_Index

oh yes, Venezuela is on a par with the Philippines ... so when will the US Empire's Regime Change and liberation invasion for Democracy be happening in Manilla?

Soon I hope!!! 
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on April 10, 2019, 03:27:03 PM
In the news these days are several countries in crisis. When will Donald Trump, Rob Dekker and co be bringing these people the Freedom and Democracy they deserve?

Sudan
Tunisia
Haiti
Ukraine
Israel
Syria
Yemen
Gabon
Afghanistan
Kashmir (east and west)
North Korea
Mozambique
Diego Garcia (people of)
Algeria
Libya
Morocco
Brazil
Ecuador
Columbia
El Salvador
Nicaragua
Guyana
Guatemala
Honduras
New Guinea
Zimbabwe
Somalia
South Sudan
Egypt
Central African Republic
Democratic Republic of the Congo
Chad
Guinea
Nigeria
and Palestine too!

or even Saudi Arabia?

Don't they deserve some freedom from tyranny and democracy too? :D

Gosh many of those countries even have extremely violent Islamists like ISIS Al Queda Terrorists running the place. 

Check out the better places 155-178 and maybe reconsider how "good" you got it. :)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Fragile_States_Index

oh yes, Venezuela is on a par with the Philippines ... so when will the US Empire's Regime Change and liberation invasion for Democracy be happening in Manilla?

Soon I hope!!! 
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Neven on April 10, 2019, 03:48:34 PM
That's the "crippling" sanctions that Neven says we need to be "protesting them out of moral convictions" as a pre-condition before "free and fair elections" are even allowed.

Yes, and it makes perfect sense. I can't help it that your brain starts to malfunction as soon as you hear the 'dictator' dog whistle.

Rob, if the next step in your strategy is to fight Trump by saying Chavismo isn't socialist, you are going to be totally destroyed by Trump and Fox et al. I know you are a perfect reflection of mainstream, establishment, neoliberal thinking, but I sincerely hope this is your own idea and not something that Democrats are going to try, let alone Sanders.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on April 10, 2019, 04:25:46 PM
snipped

None of this has anything to do with the US, who was just buying Venezuelan oil until Jan 2019.

So now the US stopped buying Venezuelan oil.

That's it.

That's the "crippling" sanctions
............

Did Rob really just say that? I think he did.

Awe, maybe he's only joking, trying to be funny and light-hearted about it all. ;)
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: sidd on April 10, 2019, 09:18:52 PM
Re: Sanctions on VZ

fas has a writeup:

"Since 2006, U.S. officials have expressed concerns about Venezuela’s lack of cooperation on anti-terrorism efforts. Since then, the Secretary of State has made an annual determination that Venezuela is not “cooperating fully with United States anti-terrorism efforts”  the United States has prohibited all U.S. commercial arms sales and retransfers to Venezuela since 2006."

Now that's funny. World's foremost terrorist accuses Venezuela of terrorism.

"In 2008, the Treasury Department imposed sanctions (asset freezing and prohibitions on transactions) on two individuals and two travel agencies in Venezuela for providing financial support to the radical Lebanon-based Islamic Shiite group Hezbollah."

"Since then, the President has made an annual determination, pursuant to procedures set forth in the Foreign Relations Authorization Act, FY2003 (P.L. 107-228, §706; 22 U.S.C. 2291j), that Venezuela has failed demonstrably to adhere to its obligations under international narcotics agreements. President Trump made the most recent determination for FY2019 in September 2018, but also waived foreign aid restrictions for programs to support democracy promotion."

Great. We ought to see Sackler in jail soon ?

"economic sanctions on at least 22 individuals with connections to Venezuela and 27 companies by designating them as Specially Designated Narcotics Traffickers"

". Tier 3 countries are those whose governments do not fully comply with the minimum standards of the Trafficking Victims Protection Act ... they are subject to a variety of U.S. aid restrictions, which may be waived by the President for national interest reasons."

Minimum standards apparently allow rendition and Guantanamo.

" Congress enacted the Venezuela Defense of Human Rights and Civil Society Act of 2014... the law requires the President to impose sanctions (asset blocking and visa restrictions) against those whom the President determines are responsible for significant acts of violence or serious human rights abuses associated with February 2014 protest"

"In March 2015, President Obama issued E.O. 13692 ... targets (for asset blocking and visa restrictions) those
involved in actions or policies undermining democratic processes or institutions; those involved in acts of violence or conduct constituting a serious human rights abuse; those taking actions that prohibit, limit, or penalize the exercise of freedom of expression or peaceful assembly; public corruption by senior Venezuelan officials; and any person determined to be a current or former leader of any entity engaged in any activity described above or a current or former official of the government of Venezuela."

"the Treasury Department has imposed financial sanctions on 80 Venezuelans pursuant to E.O. 13692."

"On January 8, 2019, pursuant to E.O. 13850, the Trump Administration sanctioned 7 individuals and 23 companies for involvement in a corruption scheme involving Venezuela’s currency exchange practices"

"On January 28, 2019, pursuant to E.O. 13850, the Treasury Department’s Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC) designated PdVSA as operating in the oil sector of the Venezuelan economy and Secretary of the Treasury Steven Mnuchin determined that the company was subject to U.S. sanctions. As a result, all property and interests in property of PdVSA subject to U.S. jurisdiction are blocked, and U.S. persons generally are prohibited from engaging in transactions with the company."

"In August 2017, President Trump issued E.O. 13808, which prohibits access to the U.S. ... prohibits access to US financial markets by the Venezuelan government, including PdVSA ... "

"In March 2018, President Trump issued E.O. 13827, which prohibits transactions involving the Venezuelan government’s issuance and use of digital currency, digital coin, or digital token."

"In May 2018, President Trump issued E.O. 13835, which prohibits transactions related to the purchase of Venezuelan debt, including accounts receivable, and to any debt owed to Venezuela pledged as collateral."

Read all about it:

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/row/IF10715.pdf

sidd
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on April 11, 2019, 04:52:59 AM
OK, we are not getting anywhere with this discussion.

So this will be my last post in this thread for a while, Neven, so please let it go through.

Best of luck pissing on the MSM and the US (and forgetting that there are more than 50 countries with the same opinion) and good luck trying to lift the sanctions.

Because this is how you come across :

Neven : The evil empire is after Venezuela's oil !

USA : OK, we'll stop buying it then.

Neven : The evil imperialists need to lift those "crippling" sanctions !

USA : Huh ?


To you this may all seem very rational, but to me your position is laughable.

And you are NOT doing the liberal left in the US a favor with your out-of-touch extreme opinions.

There is a reason why Bernie and AOC avoid talking about Venezuela, and NO, it's not because America is evil.

You need to STOP supporting inaction in Venezuela and STOP your whataboutism and STOP protesting the sanctions, and LISTEN to Venezuelans :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKVakhcm5ko

Because the rest of the world sees the biggest humanitarian crisis on the planet after Syria and wants to help.

And Maduro (and you with your hatred of the MSM and the US) are in the way of helping Venezuela.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on April 11, 2019, 07:23:32 AM
OK, we are not getting anywhere with this discussion.

So this will be my last post in this thread for a while, Neven, so please let it go through.

Best of luck pissing on the MSM and the US (and forgetting that there are more than 50 countries with the same opinion) and good luck trying to lift the sanctions.

Because this is how you come across :

Neven : The evil empire is after Venezuela's oil !

USA : OK, we'll stop buying it then.

Neven : The evil imperialists need to lift those "crippling" sanctions !

USA : Huh ?

To you this may all seem very rational, but to me your position is laughable.

And you are NOT doing the liberal left in the US a favor with your out-of-touch extreme opinions.

There is a reason why Bernie and AOC avoid talking about Venezuela, and NO, it's not because America is evil. It's because Venezuela is fucked up.

Please STOP supporting inaction in Venezuela and STOP denying the crisis, and STOP your whataboutism and STOP protesting the sanctions, and LISTEN to Venezuelans :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKVakhcm5ko

Because the rest of the world sees the biggest humanitarian crisis on the planet after Syria .

And with your hatred of the MSM and the US you are in the way of helping Venezuela.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on April 11, 2019, 08:25:50 AM
I sure I have posted that doc before in this in thread, part of the "educational" "history" posts

Re: Sanctions on VZ


No, no, no, no, no! They, CRS of Congress, have it all wrong.

Rob Dekker has it right.

No sanctions until the US stopped buying Venezuelan Oil in January 2019.

sheesh, like how dumb are those know-nothing dweebs! 
Quote

Targeted Sanctions Related to Antidemocratic Actions, Human Rights Violations, and Corruption

In response to increasing repression in Venezuela, Congress enacted theVenezuela Defense of Human Rights and Civil Society Act of 2014(P.L. 113-278;50 U.S.C. 1701note)in December 2014.

Among its provisions, the law requires the President to impose sanctions (asset blocking and visa restrictions) against those whom the President determines are responsible for significant acts of violence or serious human rights abuses associated with February 2014 protests or, more broadly, against anyone who has directed or ordered the arrest or prosecution of a person primarily because of the person’s legitimate exercise of freedom of expression or assembly.

In 2016, Congress extended the 2014 act through 2019 in P.L. 114-194.

In March 2015, President Obama issued E.O. 13692 to implement P.L. 113-278, and the Treasury Department issued regulations in July 2015 (31C.F.R. Part 591).

The E.O.targets (for asset blocking and visa restrictions)those involved in actions or policies undermining democratic processes or institutions; those involved in acts of violence or conduct constituting a serious human rights abuse; those taking actions that prohibit, limit, or penalize the exercise of freedom of expression or peaceful assembly; public corruption by senior Venezuelan officials; and any person determined to be a current or former leader of any entity engaged in any activity described above or a current or former official of the government of Venezuela.

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/row/IF10715.pdf


All meaning - be they guilty or not!

Roberto Haussmann would fit the Bill easily! He's a former official of the Government of Venezuela at time of a lot of corruption and restrictions on people's basic human rights to "protest" or run in elections etc etc

All the while the USA under Bush, Obama and Trump kept on buying Venezuelan Oil like there was no tomorrow! That's how "bad of the bad" Venezuela was and is!

They didn't even close the CIA Station or the Safe houses, oops sorry I meant the US Embassy. :)
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on April 11, 2019, 08:43:27 AM
I am sure I have posted that doc before in this in thread, part of the "educational" "history" posts. Which why I so question Rob's weird behaviour and commentary. And his reading research abilities. Anyway a timely reminder having this historical summary posted again. .

Re: Sanctions on VZ


No, no, no, no, no! They, CRS of Congress, have it all wrong.

Rob Dekker has it right.

No sanctions until the US stopped buying Venezuelan Oil in January 2019.

sheesh, like how dumb are those know-nothing dweebs! 
Quote

Targeted Sanctions Related to Antidemocratic Actions, Human Rights Violations, and Corruption

In response to increasing repression in Venezuela, Congress enacted theVenezuela Defense of Human Rights and Civil Society Act of 2014(P.L. 113-278;50 U.S.C. 1701note)in December 2014.

Among its provisions, the law requires the President to impose sanctions (asset blocking and visa restrictions) against those whom the President determines are responsible for significant acts of violence or serious human rights abuses associated with February 2014 protests or, more broadly, against anyone who has directed or ordered the arrest or prosecution of a person primarily because of the person’s legitimate exercise of freedom of expression or assembly.

In 2016, Congress extended the 2014 act through 2019 in P.L. 114-194.

In March 2015, President Obama issued E.O. 13692 to implement P.L. 113-278, and the Treasury Department issued regulations in July 2015 (31C.F.R. Part 591).

The E.O.targets (for asset blocking and visa restrictions)those involved in actions or policies undermining democratic processes or institutions; those involved in acts of violence or conduct constituting a serious human rights abuse; those taking actions that prohibit, limit, or penalize the exercise of freedom of expression or peaceful assembly; public corruption by senior Venezuelan officials; and any person determined to be a current or former leader of any entity engaged in any activity described above or a current or former official of the government of Venezuela.

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/row/IF10715.pdf


All meaning - be they guilty or not!

Roberto Haussmann would fit the Bill easily! He's a former official of the Government of Venezuela at time of a lot of corruption and restrictions on people's basic human rights to "protest" or run in elections etc etc

All the while the USA under Bush, Obama and Trump kept on buying Venezuelan Oil like there was no tomorrow! That's how "bad of the bad" Venezuela was and is!

They didn't even close the CIA Station or the Safe houses, oops sorry I meant the US Embassy. :)
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on April 11, 2019, 09:02:09 AM
Geez Lurk. Please pay attention. Sidd just gave an overview :

The only sanctions that matter substantially are the PdvSA sanctions from Jan 2019, which caused a sharp drop in the US buying Venezuelan oil.

Sanctions before that only affected particular Venezuelan individuals and US speculators in Venezuelan debt.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on April 11, 2019, 09:02:34 AM
OK, I keep on being attacked personally, and being moderated even for just reporting any facts that happen to contradict Neven's opinion.

So this will be my last post in this thread for a while, and it's kind of a summary, so please Neven, let this one go through.

Best of luck pissing on the MSM and the US (and forgetting that there are more than 50 countries with the same opinion) and good luck trying to lift the sanctions.

Because this is how you come across :

Neven : The evil empire is after Venezuela's oil !

USA : OK, we'll stop buying it then.

Neven : The evil imperialists need to lift those "crippling" sanctions !

USA : Huh ?

To you this may all seem very rational, but to me your position is laughable.

And you are NOT doing the liberal left in the US a favor with your out-of-touch extreme opinions.

There is a reason why Bernie and AOC avoid talking about Venezuela, and NO, it's not because America is evil. It's because Venezuela is fucked up.

So please STOP supporting inaction in Venezuela and STOP denying the crisis, and STOP your whataboutism and STOP protesting the sanctions, and LISTEN to Venezuelans :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKVakhcm5ko

Because the rest of the world sees the biggest humanitarian crisis on the planet after Syria .

And with your hatred of the MSM and the US you are in the way of helping Venezuela.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Rob Dekker on April 11, 2019, 09:31:40 AM
OK, I keep on being attacked personally, and being moderated even for just reporting any facts that happen to contradict Neven's opinion.

So this will be my last post in this thread for a while, and it's kind of a summary, so please Neven, let this one go through.

Best of luck continuing your attacks on the MSM and against the US (and forgetting that there are more than 50 countries with the same opinion) and good luck to you trying to lift the sanctions.

Because this is how you come across :

Neven : The evil empire is after Venezuela's oil !

USA : OK, we'll stop buying it then.

Neven : The evil imperialists need to lift those "crippling" sanctions !

USA : Huh ?

To you this may all seem very rational, but to me your position is laughable.

And you are NOT doing the liberal left in the US a favor with your out-of-touch extreme opinions.

There is a reason why Bernie and AOC avoid talking about Venezuela, and NO, it's not because America is evil. It's because Venezuela is fucked up.

So please STOP supporting inaction in Venezuela and STOP denying the crisis, and STOP your whataboutism and STOP protesting the sanctions, start to LISTEN to Venezuelans, and open your heart :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKVakhcm5ko

Because the rest of the world sees the biggest humanitarian crisis on the planet after Syria caused by Maduro.

And with your hatred of the MSM and the US you are in the way of helping Venezuela make a change for the better.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: Neven on April 11, 2019, 10:22:37 AM
There was one sentence that is worth replying to in Rob's last comment I removed:

Quote
There is a reason why Bernie and AOC avoid talking about Venezuela, and NO, it's not because America is evil. It's because Venezuela is fucked up.

The reason is that they need the votes of brainwashed people like you. I think you represent a large segment of the American population that thinks it's liberal/progressive, but has been brainwashed to be right-wing.

And you say they avoid talking about it, which might also mean they are not mindlessly repeating your FACTS, and you don't want to post what they're saying (just like you selectively quoted that letter by Ro Khanna).

Either way, whatever it is they say, they need to do it in a way that resists the warmongering regime change narrative and that resists Trump ('He said he didn't want any more meddling and toppling, and here he is talking about a military intervention in Venezuela! The troops are still in Syria and Afghanistan, which isn't what he promised, and his cabinet of war criminals like Pompeo and Bolton, would love nothing more than a hot war with Iran! Trump says he's an outsider, but he is part of the swamp, trying to make money off of workers and poor people, no matter if they're brown, black or white, foreign or American!').
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on April 11, 2019, 11:31:03 AM
Venezuela is not as fucked up as Sudan

President Omar al-Bashir, who ruled Sudan for over 30 consecutive years, has been ousted from power after deadly clashes between protesters and security forces reached a climax this week, multiple reports say
https://www.rt.com/news/456192-sudan-military-president-ousted/

Where was America when they needed them the last 30 years of fucked-uped-ness?

Oh what's that? President gets ousted without US Sanctions or Regime Change invasions? Wow. That can't happen ... people solving their own internal problems without the genius of Trump, Bolton and Pompeo to held them. Jeezus what's the world coming to?

What will the USA be doing about all those "deaths" in clashes?


Caracas and the Red Cross have agreed to allow UN-sponsored humanitarian aid shipments into Venezuela, which has been grappling with shortages of medicine and basic supplies amid a severe economic crisis.

Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro announced on Wednesday that his government has been ironing out the details of a formal agreement with the International Committee of the Red Cross on how the aid will be distributed across Venezuela. The announcement was made after Maduro met with the president of the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC), Peter Maurer, in Caracas.
https://www.rt.com/news/456186-venezuela-aid-red-cross/


Venezuela wants to sell gold reserves to shore up economy devastated by US sanctions – reports 

 Venezuela has moved eight tons of gold from the central bank in an attempt to raise hard currency to help its cash-strapped economy hit by crippling US sanctions, according to government sources cited by Reuters.

There have been unconfirmed reports that the Venezuelan government has removed around 30 tons of gold from central bank vaults this year. Washington and the government’s opposition have accused Caracas of trying to sell national gold reserves abroad. The US has threatened sanctions against any company attempting to buy Venezuelan gold.

Venezuela, battling with economic turmoil fueled by rampant inflation, power blackouts and ensuing water shortages, has not been left without help since it plunged into the crisis. Maduro has noted the humanitarian assistance his country has been receiving from its long-time allies, such as China, Russia, Turkey and India, as well as the the Pan American Health Organization (PAHO).
https://www.rt.com/business/456114-venezuela-gold-sales-billion/

HOI! That's our Gold fella, keep your grubby hands off it - Sec Pompeo is overheard as saying
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: sidd on April 12, 2019, 10:10:44 PM
Empire plays another card: World Bank to become "deeply involved" in Venezuela

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/04/world-bank-preparing-deeply-involved-venezuela-190411195030646.html

I smell the sweet scent of liberation in the air.

sidd
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on April 13, 2019, 06:20:22 AM
Venezuelan ex-spy chief who defected to Guaido arrested on 2014 US drug trafficking warrant in Spain

The former chief of Venezuela's military intelligence – and the highest-ranking military officer to defect to the US-backed opposition – has been nabbed in Spain on a US warrant for allegedly trafficking tons of cocaine.

Hugo Carvajal was arrested by Spanish police in Madrid on Friday and faces extradition to the US, where he was indicted in 2014 for allegedly having "coordinated the transportation of approximately 5,600 kilograms of cocaine from Venezuela to Mexico." He will testify in a Saturday court appearance as to whether he wishes to fight the extradition, an official with Spain's National Court told the AP.

The Venezuelan ex-Major General, whose nickname "el Pollo" means "the Chicken," is accused of protecting a Colombian drug kingpin from arrest, allowing him to move about 5,600kg of cocaine in and out of Venezuela, and tipping him off to law enforcement activities.

Carvajal allegedly was not only paid off by the kingpin and other members of his organization, but also invested in some of the drug shipments. He is also accused of providing weapons to the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC).

While Carvajal served as chief of military intelligence and counter-intelligence under former Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, he reportedly began to distance himself from Chavez's successor President Nicolas Maduro after returning to Venezuela in 2014 from Aruba, where he had been briefly detained on the same US warrant, facing extradition until Maduro threatened retaliation against the island.

Carvajal left Maduro's government in 2017, ostensibly in protest over Maduro's plans to form a constitutional assembly that would reduce the power of the opposition-controlled National Assembly, and declared his allegiance to opposition leader and self-appointed president Juan Guaido in February, blaming Maduro for the "disastrous reality" of Venezuela.

Last month, the president expelled Carvajal from the armed forces, accusing him of "acts of treason against the fatherland."

Since embracing the US-backed Guaido, Carvajal has called on other members of the Venezuelan military to join the opposition, warning them against becoming "collaborators" of a "dictatorial government that has plagued people with misery" and accusing military leaders of being pawns of Cuba.

He also gave a juicy interview with the New York Times, denouncing current and former members of Maduro's government as drug traffickers, FARC and Hezbollah collaborators, and journalist blackmailers while denying his own guilt on the many of the same charges.

https://www.rt.com/news/456382-venezuelan-military-arrested-spain-drugs/
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on April 13, 2019, 06:46:43 AM
US sanctions 4 firms & 9 ships in ongoing Venezuela regime change push
Published time: 12 Apr, 2019 19:02
Get short URL

Nine oil tankers and four companies were placed on the US Treasury Department’s blacklist on Friday, as Washington sought to ratchet up sanctions on the government of Venezuela.

Three of the sanctioned companies – Jennifer Navigation, Lima Shipping, and Large Range Ltd. – are based in Liberia, while PB Tankers SPA is based in Italy.

Of the nine ships added to the blacklist, two are registered in Italy, four in Malta, two in Greece and one in Panama.

The US has already confiscated much of Venezuela’s gold and oil industry assets, seeking to effect regime change in Caracas and depose President Nicolas Maduro in favor of US-backed opposition leader Juan Guaido.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and Histor
Post by: Sterks on April 13, 2019, 01:30:11 PM
The core issues are:
...
3) If you want free and fair elections, you need to protest the crippling sanctions (if you're not already protesting them out of moral convictions). Venezuela is in trouble because, although oil profits have been used for social policies that have massively improved the lives of its population over the past two decades, they have failed at cutting their dependence on oil. They need to be helped with that, also for the sake of AGW.


Hahahahah
Man, you live in a parallel universe. Oil profits for the advance of social policies in the last 20 years?
But you are not an idiot... are you being subsidized by some entity friendly to Maduro and don’t want to bite the hand that feeds you? And why the censoring to Rob Dekker and in this thread in “a forgotten corner of the galaxy”?

Well this is your platform from which, I must say, you speak with the sanctimonious and judgmental tone of the far left. When you condescend to us to speak about Arctic I listen, here I just know you are sooo far from truth.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and Histor
Post by: Neven on April 13, 2019, 02:08:30 PM
Man, you live in a parallel universe. Oil profits for the advance of social policies in the last 20 years?

I'm sorry, I thought this was common knowledge. Texts like these can be found all over the Internet:

Quote
A key belief of Chavismo is that the state should support social welfare programs for its citizens. For instance, Chavez often used populist rhetoric to galvanize the lower classes and the disenfranchised with promises to make their lives better. Revenue from Venezuela’s significant oil reserves were put into programs designed to reduce poverty, improve education, and establish social justice and social welfare within Venezuela.

A video I posted earlier from The Real News Network has some of the numbers on poverty, education, child mortality, housing, etc, I believe. The video also argues that Chavez had failed to wean the Venezuelan economy off of oil. So, the improvement for the majority of the Venezuelan people has taken place, but it was built on shaky foundations, especially if a terrorist organisation like the USA has decided to launch a (c)overt regime change operation.

Do you have any more videos from hip, privileged YouTubers who fail to mention that their daddies are neoliberal economists, who are pushing for a return to white class feudalism in Venezuela?
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on April 15, 2019, 07:35:02 AM
 A hawkish US think tank has hosted a secretive meeting on Venezuela, bringing together American and South American officials to discuss the “use of military force” in the country, investigative journalist Max Blumenthal told RT.

The exclusive piece shedding some light on the secretive gathering was published by the Grayzone portal on Saturday. Blumenthal has obtained a check-in list of a private roundtable dubbed ‘Assessing the Use of Military Force in Venezuela,’ which was hosted by the DC-based think tank the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS).

    Exclusive: DC's @CSIS hosted a who's who of Trump Latin America advisors for a private roundtable to discuss waging a US military assault on Venezuela. The meeting included the former head of SOUTHCOM, a Colombian general and USAID & NIC officials. https://t.co/qVlDZ2WdoTpic.twitter.com/fateSAwR0w
    — Max Blumenthal (@MaxBlumenthal) 14 апреля 2019 г.

Video
https://www.rt.com/news/456499-venezuela-invasion-secret-meeting/

Grayzone
Meeting was on April 10 at 3 PM.
https://thegrayzone.com/2019/04/13/us-military-attack-venezuela-trump-csis-invasion/
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on April 15, 2019, 11:48:48 AM
Russia replaces Venezuelan crude on European markets
Published time: 15 Apr, 2019

 European refiners are switching to Russian sour grades as US sanctions have shrunk Venezuela’s similar-grade exports, Reuters reports, adding that the Russian sour crude is getting increasingly expensive.

Citing sources from the trading industry, Reuters says the situation has been made worse by the fact that OPEC members have cut mainly their output of heavier, more sour grades under the OPEC+ agreement aimed at stimulating a price rise.

Sanctions on Iran are further complicating life for European refiners as they have restricted exports of sour grades that Iran also produces in addition to its very popular superlight crude, also called condensate.

The news is the latest reminder that the world is tipping towards a shortage of heavy, sour crude, which is the staple kind of Venezuela crude and which many refineries need to produce fuels and other products.

According to Reuters, US sanctions have removed 800,000 bpd of heavy crude from the global market, leaving refiners scrambling for alternatives in a limited pool that, besides Russia and Middle Eastern producers, also includes Canada and Mexico as large producers of these grades of crude.

Canada is having its own problems with a pipeline capacity shortage and a production cut that has boosted prices [ and so Canada heavy grade still not getting to the Koch refineries in Texas that were using Venezuelan crude until 2019 ], and Mexico has yet to reverse a fall in oil production.

https://www.rt.com/business/456516-russia-venezuela-crude-markets/

That's 'Kaching' for Russia :)

[ and from where will Citgo get it's heavy sour crude to run through it's 3 US Refineries in order for Citgo to stay in business selling gasoline, oil products, and heating oil to the US market- they won't be getting any more from Venezuela ....  ]
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: sidd on April 16, 2019, 05:45:26 AM
Tightening the screws: more sanctions

"US has again hit shipping companies doing business with Venezuela"

"four shipping companies and nine vessels"

"Jennifer Navigation Ltd (Liberia), Lime Shipping Corp (Liberia), Large Range Ltd (Liberia), and PB Tankers S.P.A. (Italy)."

"all property and interests in property of these entities, and of any entities that are owned, directly or indirectly, 50 percent or more by the designated entities, that are in the United States or in the possession or control of U.S. persons are blocked"

"Venezuela was still shipping crude oil to ally Cuba in the amount of 1 million barrels just days after the US levied sanctions on Venezuela-to-Cuba oil shipments "

https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/US-To-Slap-Even-More-Sanctions-On-Venezuela-To-Kill-Off-Oil-Exports-To-Cuba.html

sidd
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: sidd on April 17, 2019, 02:14:36 AM
Vultures gather in Bogota:

"Members of a counterintelligence unit known as la Sombra—“the Shadow”—sent by the embattled Maduro regime. "

"Mercenaries and ex-Venezuelan officers plotting their next move."

"Sergei Skripal, a former double agent working for MI6, was sent to help the Colombians figure out what to do about the growing Russian presence."

"The U.S. isn’t yielding the playing field: Its Bogotá mission, one of the largest in the world, has 3,000 employees."

"Colombia recognized Guaidó as Venezuela’s president and revoked diplomatic status for Maduro’s representatives. "

"ex-Venezuelan military who camp in Bogotá to plot coups d’état. "

"The Colombian authorities despise Maduro and are eager to see him driven from power. But the presence of armed agents makes them nervous. "

"authorities have caught and deported a handful of alleged Maduro-sent infiltrators. "

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2019-04-16/mercenaries-spies-and-double-agents-gather-en-masse-in-bogot

sidd
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on April 17, 2019, 05:06:01 PM
The US should step away from belligerent rhetoric and wind down its wasteful militaristic policies, former congressman Ron Paul told RT, after its Secretary of State accused Beijing and Moscow of bankrolling the Venezuelan leader.

https://www.rt.com/usa/456777-ron-paul-china-us/
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: sidd on April 18, 2019, 08:51:18 PM
48 billion USD for VZ if maduro diselected:

" $48 billion infusion of capital into the Venezuelan economy should President Nicolás Maduro be removed from office. "

" open the country’s beleaguered economy to foreign corporations through privatization, structural reforms, and public-private partnerships"

" the bank calls “priority actions”: eliminating obstacles for private companies, financing international trade, and establishing new legislation to re-privatize government-owned companies."

https://theintercept.com/2019/04/18/venezuela-idb-maduro-guaido/

sidd
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: sidd on April 18, 2019, 10:07:34 PM
USA adds sanctions on VZ, Nicaragua:

"National Security Advisor John Bolton also unveiled measures against a third leftist government in Latin America, Nicaragua, with sanctions against President Daniel Ortega's son."

"The United States said it would forbid all Americans' dealings and block any US assets of the Central Bank of Venezuela as well as its director, Iliana Josefa Ruzza Teran "

https://www.yahoo.com/news/us-imposes-sanctions-venezuelas-central-bank-191400263.html

sidd
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on April 19, 2019, 06:25:52 AM
48 billion USD for VZ if maduro diselected:

" $48 billion infusion of capital into the Venezuelan economy should President Nicolás Maduro be removed from office. "

" open the country’s beleaguered economy to foreign corporations through privatization, structural reforms, and public-private partnerships"

" the bank calls “priority actions”: eliminating obstacles for private companies, financing international trade, and establishing new legislation to re-privatize government-owned companies."

https://theintercept.com/2019/04/18/venezuela-idb-maduro-guaido/

sidd

Silly me, and there I was assuming that calling for free and fair UN supervised elections in Venezuela meant the people of Venezuela were to get to decide by VOTING how their nation was being run and who would lead it?
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: sidd on April 19, 2019, 09:25:46 PM
Rosneft shields PDVSA from US sanctions:

"PDVSA has started passing invoices from its oil sales to Rosneft. "

"shipments in April to Reliance - owner of the world’s biggest refining complex – would be settled via Rosneft. "

"Reliance’s joint chief financial officer, told reporters on Thursday it was buying Venezuelan oil via Russian and also Chinese companies."

https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-politics-rosneft-exclusive/exclusive-venezuela-skirts-u-s-sanctions-by-funneling-oil-sales-via-russia-idUKKCN1RU2A4

Ambani (reliance chief) has decided the the USA can be ignored.The reach of Empire now exceeds its grasp.

sidd
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on April 20, 2019, 04:24:35 AM
an echo ...

Frankly I do not care what happens in or to Venezuela btw.

It's none of my business let alone my responsibility to fix.

The key issue for me is not Venezuela itself but that it again presents another opportunity for millions of people in and out of the USA to finally face up to and shake off their Conditioning.


It's an opportunity for people to re-evaluate, to drop their many Cultural Myths and personal Beliefs that are no longer sustainable in present time.

That those myths and beliefs they have lived their entire lives accepting as obvious self-evident truths are now far less sustainable any more than BAU on this planet is Sustainable. 

Events like Venezuela then is another opportunity for people to confront themselves and change how they think about everything now.

The more who do this the better for everyone, the planet and our descendents.
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: b_lumenkraft on April 21, 2019, 05:14:08 PM
This belongs here.

Noam Chomsky on Bernie Sanders' foreign policy & Tulsi Gabbard

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REfmqLYTQsA
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on April 24, 2019, 06:37:53 AM
Khan’s visit also magically coincided with US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo’s announcement that it was clamping down hard on countries who sought to buy Iranian oil, namely, India, Japan, South Korea, Turkey and of course, China, who account for about half of Iranian oil exports
https://www.rt.com/op-ed/457326-pakistan-iran-khan-cooperation-fear/

Could it be only an incidental coincidence that India, Japan, South Korea, Turkey and China are/were also Venezuela's major buyers of Oil?
Title: Re: The Empire vs Venezuela - News and History
Post by: ASILurker on April 25, 2019, 10:55:02 AM
Activists occupying the Venezuelan embassy in Washington in solidarity w