Arctic Sea Ice : Forum

AGW in general => Policy and solutions => Topic started by: Renerpho on August 15, 2019, 08:11:01 AM

Title: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Renerpho on August 15, 2019, 08:11:01 AM
You may have heard of Greta Thunberg's plan to attend the UN climate summits in New York and Chile. She is determined to make the voyage carbon-free. To do this, she attempts to sail across the Atlantic. If successful, she will be the first person with zero sailing experience to make this trip.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-devon-49330423 (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-devon-49330423)

Thunberg departed from Plymouth, UK yesterday. She will first go south west, then into the north Atlantic to Newfoundland, and south to New York. The journey is planned to take 14 days.

You can follow her here: https://tracker.borisherrmannracing.com/ (https://tracker.borisherrmannracing.com/)

I am a bit worried about that storm currently sitting over the Atlantic. That storm is moving to the east or south east. She may have to cross it.

(https://i.ibb.co/KLR43Wx/thunberg1.png)
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: KiwiGriff on August 15, 2019, 08:31:30 AM
Ocean sailors have a saying for unexperienced crew.
Sea sickness is mind over matter.
We don't mind you don't matter. :-\

Brave girl. An ocean voyage on a small boat is a huge adventure for anyone to undertake.
 May she not puke her guts out .

Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: PSJ on August 15, 2019, 08:31:53 AM
Thanks for setting up this thread. ASI and ASIF urgently needs leaders like Greta Thunberg who have inspired some many children as well as adults. Amazing that her voyage is already being covered by media like the BBC and TheGuardian.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: TerryM on August 15, 2019, 12:01:27 PM
Reminiscent of the chiefs who paddled their Chisasibi Canoes up through Hudson Bay, then down the Labrador Coast to the UN building in NYC.


Held up the Bay St James Project for a decade or more, or at least that's the way the Cree tell the story.
Terry
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Alexander555 on August 15, 2019, 05:23:59 PM
The link to follow her is not working. Can somebody see something ?
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: be cause on August 15, 2019, 05:33:32 PM
she had a good night's sleep and is enjoying the company of dolphins .. :) .. b.c.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Renerpho on August 15, 2019, 05:38:17 PM
Reminiscent of the chiefs who paddled their Chisasibi Canoes up through Hudson Bay, then down the Labrador Coast to the UN building in NYC.

I had never heard of this. I looked it up, and it's a great story.
If you don't know it either: https://www.cbc.ca/news/indigenous/northern-quebec-cree-community-celebrates-25th-anniversary-of-odeyak-voyage-1.3044078 (https://www.cbc.ca/news/indigenous/northern-quebec-cree-community-celebrates-25th-anniversary-of-odeyak-voyage-1.3044078)
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Renerpho on August 15, 2019, 05:41:39 PM
The link to follow her is not working. Can somebody see something ?

It is working for me. Maybe try another browser?

Updates are also shared here: https://twitter.com/borisherrmann (https://twitter.com/borisherrmann)
And here: https://www.instagram.com/borisherrmannracing/ (https://www.instagram.com/borisherrmannracing/)

Map below is showing wave heights.

(https://i.imgur.com/Cpvrle4.png)
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Alexander555 on August 15, 2019, 05:51:40 PM
ok, thanks. I think that little thing is going to gain plenty supporters.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: TerryM on August 15, 2019, 05:59:56 PM
Reminiscent of the chiefs who paddled their Chisasibi Canoes up through Hudson Bay, then down the Labrador Coast to the UN building in NYC.

I had never heard of this. I looked it up, and it's a great story.
If you don't know it either: https://www.cbc.ca/news/indigenous/northern-quebec-cree-community-celebrates-25th-anniversary-of-odeyak-voyage-1.3044078 (https://www.cbc.ca/news/indigenous/northern-quebec-cree-community-celebrates-25th-anniversary-of-odeyak-voyage-1.3044078)


I was up in that part of the country ~>10 years ago. Wonderful people, wonderful canoes!
Some of those who made the trip were still talking about it to anyone who would listen. :)
I listened.
Terry
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Bernard on August 15, 2019, 07:49:30 PM
Malizia II, a high-tech competition boat, of which initial cost of conception/construction is estimated by Wikipedia at 4 millions euros. Maybe carbon-free, but not money-free. https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malizia_II (in French).
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Bernard on August 15, 2019, 07:52:34 PM
Amazing that her voyage is already being covered by media like the BBC and TheGuardian.
She does not paddle through the Atlantic. This is show business.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Renerpho on August 15, 2019, 07:53:40 PM
Malizia II, a high-tech competition boat, of which initial cost of conception/construction is estimated by Wikipedia at 4 millions euros. Maybe carbon-free, but not money-free. https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malizia_II (in French).

I guess there are three wholesome ways to cross the Atlantic: Carbon-free, or money-free, or in a coffin.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: PSJ on August 16, 2019, 09:26:19 AM
First AGW related tweet from the boat is about ASI
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: be cause on August 16, 2019, 10:25:05 AM
 So Bernard , would you have her travel by coracle ?

The Malizia II is the work of craftsmen (and women I hope ) , Reminds me of a friend with a £30k stereo who went everywhere by public transport . It's all good .. b.c.
 
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: philopek on August 16, 2019, 03:36:51 PM
Since Wednesday Greta Thunberg (16) is on her way to the Kilmagipfel of the United Nations in New York. By sailboat. To protect the environment. Now it turns out: It does exactly the opposite.

For the yacht, along with Greta her Papi Svante (50), the German professional sailor Boris Herrmann (38) and the blue-blooded Pierre Casiraghi (31) spend the next two weeks, is brought by the illustrious crew only in the US. Back she is driven by foreign sailors. And they have to be taken to New York by plane first.

4 flights more than necessary
About five employees would sail the yacht back to Europe, said Andreas Kling, press spokesman for Thunberg skipper Boris Herrmann, on Thursday the German newspaper "Tageszeitung". "Of course, they fly over there, that's no different," says Kling. As a pure offshore racing boat in the harbor, the "Malizia II" is extremely difficult to maneuver and, after its journeys, has to be meticulously maintained and supplied with new provisions.

Herrmann will also take the plane for the return journey. Makes at least six flights needed by the sailing trip. If Greta and Svante had flown directly, it would have been two flights.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: PSJ on August 16, 2019, 04:13:33 PM
Yea, that's really too bad and should have been more thought through. Let's at least hope that the impact of the stunt ends up being greater than the emissions it adds...  ::)
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: be cause on August 16, 2019, 04:44:11 PM
Hang on before you start spreading misinformation . Greta is taking a one-way trip on this boat , She is travelling throuhgout the Americas .. committed to going to Chile for a start . What the boat does after she disembarks is scarcely her responsibility .. she is doing what's right for the planet . Take up elsewhere what others are responsible for .. b.c.

.. and the boat was already making the trip ..
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: ShortBrutishNasty on August 16, 2019, 06:26:59 PM
I'm with Bernard who said: "This is show business."

Yes, a neatly arranged stunt by her handlers.  If she's true Asberger's, at some point she will snap to the manipulation and you won't again see her free-wheeling on camera.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: be cause on August 16, 2019, 06:55:47 PM
short , brutish and nasty indeed ! :)
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: rboyd on August 16, 2019, 07:16:51 PM
The peak of elite virtue signalling, we can all watch Greta being "sustainable" and feel good feelings while our elites do nothing. The Romans worked out that all the populace needed was bread and circuses to keep them quiet. No bread = revolution, as the French and Russian nobility found out to their cost.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: nanning on August 16, 2019, 07:35:21 PM
I think Greta is a great leader. A beautiful human. I wish her a safe and unbothered crossing.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Alexander555 on August 16, 2019, 08:05:50 PM
I hope the waves are not going to get to big, but they already look a little bit big for that little boat. And that for saving what we ruined.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: philopek on August 16, 2019, 08:09:08 PM
short , brutish and nasty indeed ! :)

I'm surprised, normally you're the one who sees through things and of course i don't say anything about her because i don't know her.

I think we're talking cross each-other, you mean her and we mean her  "handlers" and what others make out of the "story"

I'm sure future will tell as always and other than awareness that's key indeed, there is no further solution or benefit of worshiping. People who need an idol to get their ass up are acting for the wrong motives and won't help the cause.

One good example of thousands of others is what happened in the aftermath of the french revolution (or most others like the one in October 2017) Worse than before it was because those who abused the justified anger of the public had totally other goals in mind than what they proclaimed.

Same here and it's not her fault, let me point this out clearly.

Further, I know this is not popular again, just imagine if she were a pin-up girl, nobody would take her seriously. There definitely is a relation between things and general public as well as
those with inferiority complexes and profiling neurosis would never accept an idol without deficit.

Best of all deficits for great minds (people) is death or did you not yet recognize that most officially accepted heroes and idols in relevant fields are either limited or dead.

If not one can simply wait for their "Démontage" once they become too popular.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: rboyd on August 16, 2019, 08:17:51 PM
To misuse a popular phrase... (apres moi le deluge)

Après mon voyage en yacht aucune action réelle pour arrêter le déluge ... image sur action.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: blumenkraft on August 16, 2019, 08:21:51 PM
I'm with Bernard who said: "This is show business."

Yes, a neatly arranged stunt by her handlers.  If she's true Asberger's, at some point she will snap to the manipulation and you won't again see her free-wheeling on camera.

What's a true Aspie?

As you write it you must be very knowledgeable on the topic.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: mitch on August 16, 2019, 08:25:37 PM
Once Greta gets south of the Bay of Biscay, the seas don't look too bad. Here's a wave height forecast for the Atlantic:
http://www.stormsurfing.com/cgi/display.cgi?a=atla_ortho_height
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Renerpho on August 16, 2019, 08:56:55 PM
I'm with Bernard who said: "This is show business."

Yes, a neatly arranged stunt by her handlers.  If she's true Asberger's, at some point she will snap to the manipulation and you won't again see her free-wheeling on camera.

What's a true Aspie?

As you write it you must be very knowledgeable on the topic.

Being a true Aspie myself, I am very curious about this, too.
Maybe you can give us some insights?
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: blumenkraft on August 16, 2019, 09:05:47 PM
Being a true Aspie myself, I am very curious about this, too.
Maybe you can give us some insights?

I think ShortBrutishNasty has cornered themselves into an unwinnable debate. Eager to see how exactly they will embarrass themselves.  ;D ;)
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: etienne on August 16, 2019, 09:08:03 PM
From my experience, you can't get a good press coverage if you do not have support of influencial people, that's sure. But I think that she is doing a pretty good work and is able to keep saying what she wants  and feels. If you wonder why I say this, just check her tweets and the ones of other influencer on Internet: you can't see who produced her clothes and shoes, you don't see the name of any greenBau company, she is not driven around in a EV... I really think that she is doing a good job.
She also says that we should listen to the scientists, normal people in her situation would ask everybody to listen only to themselves.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: blumenkraft on August 16, 2019, 09:16:03 PM
Before Greta, no one thought of calling for strikes and preaching about climate change is a great business model. Now people actually believe it.

Brain worms...
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: KiwiGriff on August 16, 2019, 11:14:48 PM
I would bet that the ratio of Aspies on this forum is greater than in the population at large.
We await the startling revelations as to what We are and how We think.

Greta has had more impact than any individual here, in all probability more than all of us here.
I wish her continuing success in shifting the overton window towards the changes humanity needs.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: TerryM on August 16, 2019, 11:24:27 PM
I just hope she's not subject to sea sickness. :P 
Edit]
Does she look a green around the gills, or is that a reflection from the water?
Terry
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Renerpho on August 17, 2019, 03:28:57 AM
I just hope she's not subject to sea sickness.

The weather was a bit rough yesterday, but it got better. There have been no cases of sea sickness yet. They will try to avoid the worst parts of that storm to the northwest.

Quote from: boris herrmann
After a rough day at sea the team are all happy and feeling much better. No one has been sick but we all felt a bit off!
https://twitter.com/borisherrmann/status/1162488058190749696 (https://twitter.com/borisherrmann/status/1162488058190749696)

Current conditions: Temperature 17°C; wind 15 kt (gusts 22 kt); waves 3.1m; swell 2.7m, 10s.
https://www.windy.com/46.939/-15.892/waves?waves,46.580,-15.892,8,m:eXoafIF (https://www.windy.com/46.939/-15.892/waves?waves,46.580,-15.892,8,m:eXoafIF)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ECH8t97XsAENlMn?format=jpg)
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: ShortBrutishNasty on August 17, 2019, 04:27:17 AM
I'm operating under three assumptions:

1.  Greta is highly intelligent.

2.  It's just a matter of time before she recognizes she's being tooled.

3.  When that happens, her lack--total or partial-- of emotional filter will render her unmanageable.  See "Alex Honnold"; "Free Solo".  You just will stop hearing about her.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: nanning on August 17, 2019, 04:54:14 AM
I think you are wrong about her and I don't kow much about aspergers. She has a very strong character and principles (morality) and is a very independent thinker in my view. She is not a puppet. She is not a grown-up (I'm neither and that's an enormous difference I can tell you).
People might try to use her but I think there are no strings to pull.

She has had a wide range of new and personal experiences in the past year and has learned a lot. We'll see. Please stop with talking about her personality, asperger and potential vulnerabilities. Wrong focus. In stead, we should do that with the current fake leaders, the rich old white vain conmen.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: blumenkraft on August 17, 2019, 07:52:58 AM
I'm operating under three assumptions:

1.  Greta is highly intelligent.

2.  It's just a matter of time before she recognizes she's being tooled.

3.  When that happens, her lack--total or partial-- of emotional filter will render her unmanageable.  See "Alex Honnold"; "Free Solo".  You just will stop hearing about her.


I hate it when people don't answer a question.  ::)

You are contradicting yourself. If she is so intelligent, why is she too stupid to realize that she is 'tooled'? You are making no sense at all.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: be cause on August 17, 2019, 10:41:23 AM
philopek .. I was just pointing out (to you ) that Greta is not responsible for what happens next with a boat she makes a one-way journey on . Is a person who gets off the bus at the last stop now responsible for the bus returning empty to the station and how the driver goes home ? This is an unfair dumping on a young girl who chose the greenest option of travel available to her . Are you or nasty brute doing more to raise awareness among the young ( and polititians ) (yes .. tits . ) ?
  'back she is driven by foreign sailors ' .. how do you know ? She does not know how or when she returns .. but you do ???  Or is 'foreign' in this instance anyone who isn't Swedish ?
  I only ask that you treat with some fairness a good soul who cares for her planet .. b.c.
 
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: gerontocrat on August 17, 2019, 12:37:41 PM
There is no doubt that looked purely as an energy / CO2 equation Ms Thunberg's boat ride does not make sense.

BUT

We all need symbols - look at the fuss on the suggestions thread about Neven's classification of members according to number of posts***.

So sailing to New York is a symbol.

Perhaps Ms. Thunberg has worked that out for herself, and believes the benefits will outweigh the negatives, e.g. there is little doubt that the denier industry will no doubt seize upon the sort of negative stuff posted on this thread to try and shoot her down.

______________________________________________________________
*** ps: I want  demand that my Royal Status is restored!!

Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: bligh8 on August 17, 2019, 01:57:59 PM
The vessel is heading south east making way for the trade wind passage....I'm sure they have on board or through communication's the very best weather information possible.  Sailing, without exception, is the most environmentally friendly way to travel.  Movement without effort, traveling without burning FF.  I'm purty sure there are no cooking facilities on that vessel, every thing about that boat is about weight...   when the boat reaches a speed of 17 mph, the noise below deck becomes deafening, this is true of all sailing in heavy weather, I had ear plugs which helped a little.
I'm also sure the construction of that vessel is fossil fuel intensive, which matters not considering what the las is trying to communicate with the planet.  The British people have always been a little desperate searching for the next "hero", I'm sure we will get some over head footage, plane or helo, just as we did with Sir Francis Charles Chichester while rounding the horn.

I sincerely wish this young girl all the luck and success inher efforts to help us.

bligh
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: NevB on August 17, 2019, 02:13:29 PM
The people here speculating about Greta being manipulated are pathetic.

If you bothered to watch her interviews and have capacity to understand peoples motives then you would know she is doing this because she believes in what she is doing and rather than being manipulated she is influencing the people around her.

I call you all pathetic because this young girl is actually making a difference and your here wining that building the yacht that she's sailing on had some carbon emissions. Really, she made the best choice she could about how to travel to the US where she probably will make even more a of an impact and all you can do is whine about this.

This seems like the denialist bullshit that doesn't gets past Neven's moderation for very long. 
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Sigmetnow on August 17, 2019, 02:21:00 PM
This sailboat is a hell of a lot more comfortable than the Solar Impulse 2 (solar + batteries plane), which accomplished a multi-legged flight around the globe using no fossil fuel.  But could only do it in an easterly direction, and in the northern hemisphere. ;)

https://aroundtheworld.solarimpulse.com
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: SteveMDFP on August 17, 2019, 03:30:02 PM
The people here speculating about Greta being manipulated are pathetic.

If you bothered to watch her interviews and have capacity to understand peoples motives then you would know she is doing this because she believes in what she is doing and rather than being manipulated she is influencing the people around her.

I call you all pathetic because this young girl is actually making a difference and your here wining that building the yacht that she's sailing on had some carbon emissions. Really, she made the best choice she could about how to travel to the US where she probably will make even more a of an impact and all you can do is whine about this.

This seems like the denialist bullshit that doesn't gets past Neven's moderation for very long.

+1  Greta's words, and they way they have inspired many to stand up, speak for themselves.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: TerryM on August 17, 2019, 04:17:47 PM

A Ditty for the Damned
or
Dogrel for Denighers


Well
Greta Rules the Airwaves
Britannia Rules the Seas


but
Greta may seize the rulers
And bring 'em to their knees


As
gerontocrat's Royal standing
was challenged in the loo
With just one Royal Flushing
They'll wind up with the poo


Will
Greta and gerontocrat
An alliterative alliance make
to stamp his Royal seal
on her Gretanic zeal


That
Ship has left the harbor
if we were not onboard
the next stop is Perdition
without the world's accord


If
Greta's stopped
our naked feet
Will blister in the heat
and melt plumb off amid the fray
If there's an ounce of clay


May all the winds that drive her ship
be following, steady and strong
May all denighers flub their lines
And finally admit they're wrong


Ramen!
Terry
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: be cause on August 17, 2019, 04:36:34 PM
Three cheers for Terry ! .. just bc.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Sigmetnow on August 28, 2019, 03:51:57 AM
Looks like they have survived the crossing OK.

Quote
Greta Thunberg (@GretaThunberg) 8/27/19, 3:29 PM
Day 14. 119 miles from Manhattan. Very light winds south of Long Island.
https://twitter.com/gretathunberg/status/1166432482788630529
Image below.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: bligh8 on August 28, 2019, 03:19:13 PM
Greta looks tired, a passage like that will do that to one who is not experienced.  see the two large poles extending outward from the sides?  Their flying a spinnaker or a light air drifter, typically a 3/4 ounce sail (light as butterfly wings).  A good nights sleep & some good food and she'll be right as rain.

bligh

 
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: P-maker on August 28, 2019, 04:12:19 PM
Bligh,

Thank you for your informed view and insightful comment. The picture was good in itself, but your words made it perfect.

Cheers P
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: bligh8 on August 28, 2019, 10:58:15 PM
Thank you....
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: VaughnAn on August 29, 2019, 07:11:07 AM
The people here speculating about Greta being manipulated are pathetic.

If you bothered to watch her interviews and have capacity to understand peoples motives then you would know she is doing this because she believes in what she is doing and rather than being manipulated she is influencing the people around her.

I call you all pathetic because this young girl is actually making a difference and your here wining that building the yacht that she's sailing on had some carbon emissions. Really, she made the best choice she could about how to travel to the US where she probably will make even more a of an impact and all you can do is whine about this.

This seems like the denialist bullshit that doesn't gets past Neven's moderation for very long.

NevB I agree this needed to be said.  I edited this post because I was convinced by a later post that negativity doesn't belong in this forum. Greta is making a huge difference bringing forth the critical climate message that needs to be delivered to policy makers.  Greta is a bright light in the gathering darkness.  She has my full support for what she says and for her actions.  Go Greta, you go girl, go!
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: ShortBrutishNasty on August 29, 2019, 09:17:45 PM
Well, let me jump back into the fray.  In some limited order:

1.  To Renerpho, Blumenkraft:  I am not Aspie myself nor am I a mental health professional.  I consider myself a well-read layperson.  And neurotypical.

2.  I love the kid to death.  Just precious.  Innocent as the day is long.  I don't think you can get a more dedicated and focused activist.  Great to see her safely across the pond!

3.  My chief complaint stems from the fact that PEOPLE WHO DRIVE 5 MILLION USD SAILBOATS ARE NOT THE GOOD GUYS.  Never were.  Never will be.  Google 'controlled opposition.'  AND AT SOME POINT, GRETA WILL FIGURE THIS OUT. 

4.  I don't know how climate activism first germinated in her brain. I don't know the machinations of how she first stood in front of the Swedish Parliament or was thrown on stage a year ago.  Wikipedia offers one account.  I don't know the machinations of how she got thrown on that boat.  I don't know any further details of her parent-child relationship. But we do know that her father and chief handler was on board.

5.  Upthread, someone asked why she is not already aware of this manipulation if she's so brilliant?  Response:  If you've never before seen a Rembrandt or been in the Rijksmuseum, you will have great difficulty forming an opinion about The Night Watch.  I don't know who her favorite blogger is or what she reads or to what extent her parents have sheltered her.  It's all a matter of exposure and subsequent learning curve.

6.  Upthread, I described her and Asperger's folks generally as lacking an emotional filter.  I don't know exactly where she is on the spectrum.  There haven't been many details of her diagnosis disclosed.  I don't know if she has meltdowns.  At a minimum, all the videos I've seen of her and the Wiki- conclude she's very blunt.  So I conclude, once again, that when she realizes she's being co-opted, she will refuse to play along and you won't see her anymore.


Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: rboyd on August 29, 2019, 09:19:38 PM
The people here speculating about Greta being manipulated are pathetic.

If you bothered to watch her interviews and have capacity to understand peoples motives then you would know she is doing this because she believes in what she is doing and rather than being manipulated she is influencing the people around her.

I call you all pathetic because this young girl is actually making a difference and your here wining that building the yacht that she's sailing on had some carbon emissions. Really, she made the best choice she could about how to travel to the US where she probably will make even more a of an impact and all you can do is whine about this.

This seems like the denialist bullshit that doesn't gets past Neven's moderation for very long.

NevB I am glad you said this; perhaps you said it better than myself.  I do not like to post negative comments on this forum, however I believe this is one time it is justified.  The pathetic losers who are saying disparaging things about Greta need to crawl back down the holes they came up from.  There is no room on this forum for such pathetic losers who cannot get over seeing someone, in this case Greta, making a huge difference bringing forth the critical climate message that needs to be delivered to policy makers.  Greta is a bright light in the gathering darkness.  She has my full support for what she says and for her actions.  Go Greta, you go girl, go!

Get over yourselves, and quit the ad hominem attacks on other contributors which have no place in this forum. You can disagree with another's point of view but not attack them personally. That is one of the things what makes this forum one of the best (and kudos to Neven for keeping it that way).

The issue is not Greta personally, but the power structure which works to co-opt such individuals and celebrate spectacles of change to remove any momentum from real fundamental change. The powers that be listen, publicly celebrate the individuals energy and earnestness, then go on as before. Unfortunately the elites have become extremely good at this (a bit like the Roman elites with "Bread and Circuses") aided greatly by the media saturation and small attention spans these days.

I was in 350.org for a while until I realized that all the marching etc. may have provided "feel good" feelings but did not make any real difference. These organizations tend to burn people out after a few years when they see that nothing is being achieved. If they get truly threatening then the state will attempt very violently to shut them down, as with Occupy Wall Street and the anti-globalization demonstrations around the beginning of this century (9/11 and the resulting "war on terror" helped greatly in the state's shutdown of the latter). I wish it were different, but until we get a large scale crisis (economic crash or climate escalation) the state will be able to continue on business as usual.

"First they ignore you. Then they ridicule you. And then they attack you and want to burn you. And then they build monuments to you." (Nicholas Klein, US union organizer in early 1990's, many times misattributed to Ghandi who never said any such thing). None of this applies to Greta, who certainly has not been ignored from day 1 nor mocked by the elites, a good sign of co-option and elite usefulness. Greta may wake up to this, as she seems to be quite an intelligent person, but if she then goes "off message" too many times she will quickly be disappeared from the media spotlight.

The Dark Side of Globalization: Why Seattle's 1999 Protesters Were Right

Quote
In 1999, my friend moved to Seattle, where he was hit with rubber bullets, tear-gassed in the face, and nearly arrested by police. He had joined the famous protests of the WTO Ministerial Conference, widely known as the Seattle Protests. The Occupy Wall Street of their time, they focused on globalization rather than the excesses of finance. And, quite like the Occupy Wall Street of their time, they were often mocked by critics as silly, aimless, and overly hand-wringy about the future.

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/01/the-dark-side-of-globalization-why-seattles-1999-protesters-were-right/282831/ (https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/01/the-dark-side-of-globalization-why-seattles-1999-protesters-were-right/282831/)

The shocking truth about the crackdown on Occupy

Quote
So, when you connect the dots, properly understood, what happened this week is the first battle in a civil war; a civil war in which, for now, only one side is choosing violence. It is a battle in which members of Congress, with the collusion of the American president, sent violent, organised suppression against the people they are supposed to represent. Occupy has touched the third rail: personal congressional profits streams. Even though they are, as yet, unaware of what the implications of their movement are, those threatened by the stirrings of their dreams of reform are not.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/cifamerica/2011/nov/25/shocking-truth-about-crackdown-occupy (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/cifamerica/2011/nov/25/shocking-truth-about-crackdown-occupy)

Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: rboyd on August 29, 2019, 09:40:35 PM
So I conclude, once again, that when she realizes she's being co-opted, she will refuse to play along and you won't see her anymore.

Exactly.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: blumenkraft on August 29, 2019, 09:53:11 PM
ShortBrutishNasty, your post is riddled with made-up premises and wrong assumptions. It's only in your head.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Tom_Mazanec on August 29, 2019, 10:14:36 PM
Greta Thunberg made it to New York emissions-free – but the ocean doesn’t yet hold the key to low-carbon travel
https://theconversation.com/greta-thunberg-made-it-to-new-york-emissions-free-but-the-ocean-doesnt-yet-hold-the-key-to-low-carbon-travel-122518
Quote
Until then, journey time will remain the primary barrier to low-carbon ocean travel. For now, the only answer for most of us wanting to minimise our impact on the planet is to minimise how much we travel across it – especially when it comes to crossing vast expanses of water.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: rboyd on August 29, 2019, 10:30:05 PM
Greta Thunberg made it to New York emissions-free – but the ocean doesn’t yet hold the key to low-carbon travel
https://theconversation.com/greta-thunberg-made-it-to-new-york-emissions-free-but-the-ocean-doesnt-yet-hold-the-key-to-low-carbon-travel-122518
Quote
Until then, journey time will remain the primary barrier to low-carbon ocean travel. For now, the only answer for most of us wanting to minimise our impact on the planet is to minimise how much we travel across it – especially when it comes to crossing vast expanses of water.

It wasn't really until the 1960s that the majority of the population started to consider such travel as normal. It now seems to be embedded in our culture that flying all the way to Thailand etc. from Europe of North America is something that people should do. Then of course, we have the rapidly expanding Chinese affluent looking to copy their western counterparts. I remember a documentary about a German couple attempting to be carbon neutral - giving up the annual vacation to a faraway place was the hardest thing for them.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: TerryM on August 30, 2019, 01:42:20 AM
Do any recall Marjoe Gortner, his early upbringing - and the havoc created when he broke his leash?


She's a child, and deserved a chance to live as a child.
I wish her the best.
Terry
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: VaughnAn on August 30, 2019, 05:47:33 AM
The people here speculating about Greta being manipulated are pathetic.

If you bothered to watch her interviews and have capacity to understand peoples motives then you would know she is doing this because she believes in what she is doing and rather than being manipulated she is influencing the people around her.

I call you all pathetic because this young girl is actually making a difference and your here wining that building the yacht that she's sailing on had some carbon emissions. Really, she made the best choice she could about how to travel to the US where she probably will make even more a of an impact and all you can do is whine about this.

This seems like the denialist bullshit that doesn't gets past Neven's moderation for very long.

NevB I am glad you said this; perhaps you said it better than myself.  I do not like to post negative comments on this forum, however I believe this is one time it is justified.  The pathetic losers who are saying disparaging things about Greta need to crawl back down the holes they came up from.  There is no room on this forum for such pathetic losers who cannot get over seeing someone, in this case Greta, making a huge difference bringing forth the critical climate message that needs to be delivered to policy makers.  Greta is a bright light in the gathering darkness.  She has my full support for what she says and for her actions.  Go Greta, you go girl, go!

Get over yourselves, and quit the ad hominem attacks on other contributors which have no place in this forum. You can disagree with another's point of view but not attack them personally. That is one of the things what makes this forum one of the best (and kudos to Neven for keeping it that way).

snippage---

I agree that attacks on on other contributors are not okay, so to help preserve this forum I edited my previous post in question here.  Normally, IMHO there are three categories of people where being blunt with them is justified: convicted criminals, corrupt politicians, and those who say disparaging things about someone who is doing great things.  This is an example of the latter.  Normally calling someone a name means you are actually saying what you think you called that person about yourself.  So, for example, if person "A" calls person "B" a dolt, then person "A" is actually calling himself or herself a dolt.  If you want to discuss this further post in the "Decorum" thread and I will respond there and that's all I'm going to say about that.

This thread, I believe, is for supporting Greta and celebrating her success.  Greta is doing things others aren't doing and needs our undivided attention and support.  So, Greta, keep it up, tell it like it is, and don't give up.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: etienne on August 30, 2019, 07:17:44 AM
I'd like to hear what the people who are so much against Greta see as solution for climate change.
Le monde has an article that I find really unfair
https://www.lemonde.fr/idees/article/2019/08/28/greta-thunberg-devrait-renoncer-a-precher-une-inaccessible-saintete-climatique_5503861_3232.html
They say more or less that Greta asks things that would make the developpment of poor countries impossible because only developped technical countries could have a low carbon footprint, the Mazilla being an example of zero carbon solution. They say that without airplanes and our consuption many countries would be lost and couldn't invest in low carb technologies.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: NevB on August 30, 2019, 12:44:49 PM
So I conclude, once again, that when she realizes she's being co-opted, she will refuse to play along and you won't see her anymore.

Exactly.

If apparently she is being used and one day will wake up and go away and not be heard again, then what's the point of any protest at all?

The implication is the only people who are heard are those useful for the so called "elites", therefore anyone who is getting publicity should just shut up because their being used.

This leaves no possible avenue for any protest to be legitimate (oh how convenient), this leaves me very suspicious of the motives of people who say this.

Also the crew of the boat are doing whatever their doing in any case Greta has zero affect on what they do or don't do. Tying her to their issues also raises my suspicion.

PS Thanks to Vaughan for the kind comments
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Rodius on August 30, 2019, 01:40:13 PM
ShortBrutishNasty.... you really know very little about Aspergers.

Even your concept of people with Aspergers having more meltdowns and having less control over emotions than nuerotypical people is wrong. Even as a generality it is wrong.

I am Aspergers, and I have always been cool, calm and collected, probably less meltdowns than neurotypical kids and definitely adults.

Please stop talking about it, you really do not know what you are talking about in regards to Aspergers.

Next thing you will be saying is it is a scale or some such nonsense.
Let me be clear.
You either have it or you dont.
That scale that people go on about... as in high functioning or low functioning.... is utter bullshit that tends to come mostly from people who know very little about the topic.

Please stop mentioning it, you have no authority to and nowhere near enough knowledge about it.

The best you could do is think of aspergers as a different way of thinking with different levels of sensory input to most people. And leave it at that.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: etienne on August 30, 2019, 02:51:01 PM
I don't think that she was coopted, she was the only one there. Being alone, many people hope a lot of her, and at the press conference arriving in New York, I found that she was not trying get more people to follow her, but trying to get people to do something. We schould be fellows and not followers.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: etienne on August 30, 2019, 04:48:02 PM
The NYTimes has an opinion saying that she doesn't act in a democratic way.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/02/opinion/climate-change-greta-thunberg.html
I also believe that this is unfair.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: blumenkraft on August 30, 2019, 05:01:04 PM
Reminder: The NYTimes is also the rag called David Koch a philanthrope.

If you have a subscription, you might act now! Stop supporting corporate propaganda.

Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: TerryM on August 30, 2019, 05:04:32 PM
The NYTimes has an opinion saying that she doesn't act in a democratic way.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/02/opinion/climate-change-greta-thunberg.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/02/opinion/climate-change-greta-thunberg.html)
I also believe that this is unfair.
We can't expect good publicity from that source apparently.


NYT usually supports the DNC - the ones who shied away from debating climate change.


I wonder if Greta could hold a televised meeting with some of the Democratic Candidates who won't be allowed to participate in the official debate. They could discuss their vision for the future with no preconditions regarding subject matter.
 
Perhaps in the same time slot?
Terry
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: rboyd on August 30, 2019, 05:07:54 PM
This thread, I believe, is for supporting Greta and celebrating her success.  Greta is doing things others aren't doing and needs our undivided attention and support.  So, Greta, keep it up, tell it like it is, and don't give up.

All threads are for open discussion of the topic at hand, positive and negative or otherwise. This isn't a "fan" site. I have started threads where people challenge my statements, sometimes in quite blunt terms, and am more than happy with that. Being challenged is how we develop a deeper and more nuanced understanding of a subject.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: blumenkraft on August 30, 2019, 05:09:19 PM
Please stop talking about it, you really do not know what you are talking about in regards to Aspergers.

+1

Also, please stop talking about things you know little about in general. This is a scientific forum, not Facebook.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: etienne on August 30, 2019, 05:18:26 PM

I wonder if Greta could hold a televised meeting with some of the Democratic Candidates who won't be allowed to participate in the official debate. They could discuss their vision for the future with no preconditions regarding subject matter.
 
Perhaps in the same time slot?
Terry

I wouldn't push her too much in political debates. She is very good at saying that we have to move, but I believe that she is not qualified to define what has to be done, excepted that fossil fuels have to stay in the ground. Discussing solutions is the best way to loose your credibility because solutions are local and not universals. I'm sure she has no problem with flying for firefighting.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: blumenkraft on August 30, 2019, 05:22:24 PM
Being challenged is how we develop a deeper and more nuanced understanding of a subject.

If you really want to develop a deeper and more nuanced understanding of a subject it might be a great idea to stop acting on assumptions. Your whole argument about Greta is based on an assumption you pulled out of your arse - there is no evidence for it whatsoever.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: blumenkraft on August 30, 2019, 05:28:03 PM
I believe that she is not qualified to define what has to be done

Etienne, 30 years ago i was 16. If the world had listened to me back then, we wouldn't be in such a deep shit today.

Kinder an die Macht! (All power to the kids)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiqWrSAFvow
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: etienne on August 30, 2019, 05:42:43 PM
I believe that she is not qualified to define what has to be done

Etienne, 30 years ago i was 16. If the world had listened to me back then, we wouldn't be in such a deep shit today.

Kinder an die Macht! (All power to the kids)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiqWrSAFvow

The problem I see is that solutions are not the same everywhere. A gas cooker will save the forest in Haiti, but EU and US should go 100% renewable. Solutions should be discussed localy and I find that youth should keep the pressure to make sure that something happens. If you suggest something, there will always be a case where it is impossible.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: etienne on August 30, 2019, 05:45:54 PM
Of course youth and adults have to suggest together solutions, but I wonder what Alaska and Florida have in common excepted industrial products.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: nanning on August 30, 2019, 06:04:13 PM
Thanks blumenkraft.
Children are born as real humans everywhere because they are still without cultural programming.

This is from my expertise and on topic because it's about youth:
Youth should stop forcing themselves to join grown-up culture, because it's these days a very destructive hierarchical accumulation fantasy culture with low morality. I am not a grown-up in the sense that I consciously don't join that bad and simple way of living your life. You don't need to join.

The grown-ups killed and are still further killing your future.
They (grown-up consumerists) are trying every which way to dodge any guilt, to find other interpretations of the situation, follow ELSD news, finding other people to point to.
Just to not have to change themselves and to not have to face the danger of losing their addiction to the hierarchical accumulation culture; losing all their precious 'stuff' and their fantasy 'status'. They are afraid the modern 'dream' of progression will end because they don't see any alternative and are deeply addicted.

But the 'dream' of progression, is, of course, not real. Look at the real consequences.

ELSD=Erring on the Least Side of Drama.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: TerryM on August 30, 2019, 06:06:07 PM
Of course youth and adults have to suggest together solutions, but I wonder what Alaska and Florida have in common excepted industrial products.
Bad governance?
Terry
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: nanning on August 30, 2019, 06:27:53 PM
^^
 ;D  :-\  :'(
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: blumenkraft on August 30, 2019, 06:30:19 PM
Of course youth and adults have to suggest together solutions, but I wonder what Alaska and Florida have in common excepted industrial products.
Bad governance?
Terry

Yes, that.  ;D

And a lag of a $150 carbon tax!
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: rboyd on August 30, 2019, 06:39:14 PM
Being challenged is how we develop a deeper and more nuanced understanding of a subject.

If you really want to develop a deeper and more nuanced understanding of a subject it might be a great idea to stop acting on assumptions. Your whole argument about Greta is based on an assumption you pulled out of your arse - there is no evidence for it whatsoever.

Once again the reaction of someone who does not like the message - attack the messenger. I already provided evidence of what happened to two movements that truly threatened elite interests, plus my own experience in 350.org.

The co-option and reorientation of the Greens toward neoliberalism in Germany is a good example - very sad. The same with the Labour Party in the UK, Margaret Thatcher's greatest legacy was Tony Blair. Its why Corbyn is constantly attacked and disparaged as he tries to take Labour back to its roots (the same with Bernie, Ocaz, Omar and Gabbard in the US). Many environmental groups have been co-opted through corporate and foundation (Ford foundation etc.) money, like giving green credits and endorsements to minor or even greenwashing corporate initiatives (the WWF is a good example, sadly even Greenpeace in some cases). Its really hard not to get co-opted as elite groups are very well funded, and very experienced at co-opting oppositional organizations (there is a whole literature on the co-option of NGOs by corporations, governments and foundations)..

Also look at the treatment of the burgeoning left movement in the US in the early C20th through the use of the WW1 espionage act and red scares. Same post-WW2 to shutdown non-elite interests (start with the McCarthy hearings and the DNC stealing of the VP nomination from the progressive Henry Wallace when it was obvious that Roosevelt was dying). Then of course Assange, Obama's record of locking up more whistleblowers than any other President ...

The patterns keep repeating.

Maybe you should remove your head from your arse and do some real research before making such intellectually lazy and personally abusive statements.

EDIT: How could I forget the Yellow Vests in France (brutally put down by police using such things as hand grenades and illegal detention against civilians), and the massive protests in Brazil against Bolsonaro's neoliberal policies? Oh yes, nearly complete western media blackout. But we get wall-to-wall Hong Kong protest coverage.

https://www.commondreams.org/views/2019/08/17/media-blackout-brazils-anti-bolsonaro-protests (https://www.commondreams.org/views/2019/08/17/media-blackout-brazils-anti-bolsonaro-protests)

https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/12/12/blacking-out-the-yellow-vests-on-cable-news-corporate-media-doing-its-job/ (https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/12/12/blacking-out-the-yellow-vests-on-cable-news-corporate-media-doing-its-job/)
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: oren on August 30, 2019, 06:49:05 PM
So I conclude, once again, that when she realizes she's being co-opted, she will refuse to play along and you won't see her anymore.

Exactly.

If apparently she is being used and one day will wake up and go away and not be heard again, then what's the point of any protest at all?

The implication is the only people who are heard are those useful for the so called "elites", therefore anyone who is getting publicity should just shut up because their being used.

This leaves no possible avenue for any protest to be legitimate (oh how convenient), this leaves me very suspicious of the motives of people who say this.

Also the crew of the boat are doing whatever their doing in any case Greta has zero affect on what they do or don't do. Tying her to their issues also raises my suspicion.

PS Thanks to Vaughan for the kind comments
What NevB said.
I think the co-opting thing is nonsense. I personally know people who have been affected by Greta, people who never cared about environmentalism before. Co-opting shmo-opting, she is getting a message out. Nobody can make real change and big change - otherwise it would have happened a long time ago. So blaming Greta she is not pure and all-achieving is just stupid. Sorry.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: blumenkraft on August 30, 2019, 06:54:18 PM
Rboyd, here is not much in this statement i would generally disagree with.

But what has anything of that to do with that:

So I conclude, once again, that when she realizes she's being co-opted, she will refuse to play along and you won't see her anymore.

Exactly.

The narrative you guys spread is that Greta is somehow co-opted. There is no evidence for that. And there is no connection between Gretas motivation and your worldview. If anything there is evidence for the fact that she has her own brain.

So you either give us evidence for this bogus claim or take your social critique, which is not wrong, to another thread, please.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: rboyd on August 30, 2019, 07:01:43 PM
Its called the "Manufacturing of Consent", Herman & Chomsky did a great book on it - and that was before the concentration of radio and tv, then google, facebook, twitter etc. (with content control by the NATO-affiliated Atlantic Council). How to steer the public towards the policies the elites are pushing ("Green Growth" with continued economic growth, fossil fuel use and massively profitable geo-engineering and other technology initiatives).

Greta and Extinction Rebellion just say "fix it" they don't make any statements about how, or much about the economic distributional impacts of proposed solutions. Perfect for the elites to come up with their solutions and claim "fixed" after burning out people's protest energy, then onto the latest Kardashion story ... The UN IPCC fulfils the same "keep the masses quiet while not taking any real action role" - a Western University (Canada) professor, Radoslav Dimitrov, wrote a good account of this:

https://mafiadoc.com/decoy-institutions-r-dimitrov_5c6ef8e7097c476f7b8b4585.html (https://mafiadoc.com/decoy-institutions-r-dimitrov_5c6ef8e7097c476f7b8b4585.html)

The book:

https://www.amazon.com/Manufacturing-Consent-Political-Economy-Media/dp/0375714499/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=manufacturing+consent&qid=1567184402&s=gateway&sr=8-1 (https://www.amazon.com/Manufacturing-Consent-Political-Economy-Media/dp/0375714499/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=manufacturing+consent&qid=1567184402&s=gateway&sr=8-1)

A free version:

https://archive.org/stream/pdfy-NekqfnoWIEuYgdZl/Manufacturing+Consent+%5BThe+Political+Economy+Of+The+Mass+Media%5D_djvu.txt (https://archive.org/stream/pdfy-NekqfnoWIEuYgdZl/Manufacturing+Consent+%5BThe+Political+Economy+Of+The+Mass+Media%5D_djvu.txt)

The documentary:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnrBQEAM3rE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnrBQEAM3rE)

Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: etienne on August 30, 2019, 07:30:33 PM
So I conclude, once again, that when she realizes she's being co-opted, she will refuse to play along and you won't see her anymore.

Exactly.
Of course she is coopted to talk for example in Davos or in the UN, but it looks like she doesn't forget her aims. As long as school strikes continue, she will continue to be coopted because it's a way to limit contestation. From my experience, being coopted is an opportunity if you can stay free.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: VaughnAn on August 31, 2019, 07:58:25 AM
This thread, I believe, is for supporting Greta and celebrating her success.  Greta is doing things others aren't doing and needs our undivided attention and support.  So, Greta, keep it up, tell it like it is, and don't give up.

All threads are for open discussion of the topic at hand, positive and negative or otherwise. This isn't a "fan" site. I have started threads where people challenge my statements, sometimes in quite blunt terms, and am more than happy with that. Being challenged is how we develop a deeper and more nuanced understanding of a subject.

To clarify: I was attempting to refer to supporting her mission.  I was not able to find a mission statement for her, however, she does explain her mission fairly well here as well as sharing a few things about her life on the Ted Talk:

https://www.ted.com/talks/greta_thunberg_the_disarming_case_to_act_right_now_on_climate

Supporting her mission means having critical discussions about what she says as well as discussions about data that she uses to make her points.  Showing cause and effects by comparing newly available data with older data is critical to her discussions.  This forum can help her determine better ways to explain this data.  That's what I am talking about. 

Also, just knowing that there are other people on a similar page as she is can be a great help as well.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: SATire on August 31, 2019, 02:49:43 PM
To clarify: I was attempting to refer to supporting her mission.  I was not able to find a mission statement for her, however, she does explain her mission fairly well here as well as sharing a few things about her life on the Ted Talk:

https://www.ted.com/talks/greta_thunberg_the_disarming_case_to_act_right_now_on_climate

Supporting her mission means having critical discussions about what she says as well as discussions about data that she uses to make her points.  Showing cause and effects by comparing newly available data with older data is critical to her discussions.  This forum can help her determine better ways to explain this data.  That's what I am talking about. 

Also, just knowing that there are other people on a similar page as she is can be a great help as well.
You are so right VaughnAn. Greta's emotions are fed by science and reason and without any filter those emotions go straight inside me. That is her simple magic. Let us do what she does: Unite behind the science! Act. If someone wants to criticize her or anything which one may see behind her (What could be behind her other than science and panic? She is visually open without any filter due to Asperger...): Act better first, please.

Now I hope she gets viral in the Americas like she did in Europe. In Europe she politicized the young people like nobody else. "The Climate Crisis is solved - now start to act".

Her mission statement could be "Our house is on fire. I want you to panic. And act" - as she told us in Davos: https://youtu.be/RjsLm5PCdVQ
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: etienne on August 31, 2019, 08:05:44 PM
This time an article I like in lemonde. It explains why the argents against Greta are not valid.

https://www.lemonde.fr/idees/article/2019/08/31/climat-les-habits-neufs-du-scepticisme_5504773_3232.html
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: rboyd on August 31, 2019, 09:06:59 PM
This time an article I like in lemonde. It explains why the argents against Greta are not valid.

https://www.lemonde.fr/idees/article/2019/08/31/climat-les-habits-neufs-du-scepticisme_5504773_3232.html

Thank god for google translate! Labelling all those that question the Greta phenomenon as climate deniers is classic scapegoating propaganda. Not surprising given the source (Le Monde). Given away very early in the article.

Quote
It is no longer arguments against global warming that are attacked, but the personalities who embody and carry the mobilization denounces, in his column, Stephane Foucart, journalist at the "World".

Quote
Yet, in spite of the more than tangible character of the change underway, public conversation is always invaded by new forms of denial.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Florifulgurator on August 31, 2019, 09:16:29 PM
Labelling all those that question the Greta phenomenon as climate deniers
Pray tell, how else to label? (Perhaps conspiracy theorists? But these are also climate deniers...)
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: rboyd on August 31, 2019, 10:17:50 PM
Labelling all those that question the Greta phenomenon as climate deniers
Pray tell, how else to label? (Perhaps conspiracy theorists? But these are also climate deniers...)

1. Hard Climate Deniers: "natural cycles", "sun spots", "lying self-serving scientists" blah, blah, blah. - Trump administration, right-wing groups such as La Pen in France, Saudi Arabia, Russia

2. Soft Deniers: "climate change is happening, but we still have time to to fix it with eco-modernist and engineering solutions (including fanciful future technologies) and we don't need to stop exponential growth and we can still expand fossil fuel production (Tar Sands, fracking etc.). UN IPCC, WEF, Western European, Chinese, Indian, Canadian etc. governments, plus Obama administration and large corporations (including the media conglomerates who live off consumption-related advertising revenues).
- All the people unconditionally celebrating Greta.

3. Eco-Socialist / Realist: The rich have to drastically cut consumption (top 10-20% are the majority of the emissions - including all those WEF attendees and media moguls celebrating Greta) and costs should not be dumped on the poor/less powerful (like the French diesel taxes while at the same time cutting taxes for the rich, or the poor of Africa and India not having electricity).
- Kevin Anderson is a great example, and you certainly CANNOT call him a climate denier.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIODRrnHQxg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIODRrnHQxg)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjTtohMgGk8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjTtohMgGk8)

Charles Eisenstein - A Message to Greta Thunberg and the Youth Climate Strikers

Quote
And I would caution that there are powerful forces that would like to co-opt that energy and divert it onto things that actually don’t disrupt the status quo too much. This is not just some technical matter of finding alternative energy sources to keep civilization-as-it-is running to maintain business as usual. We live on a planet that is alive.

We could cut emissions to zero and if we continue to degrade the organs of this living being - the forests, the wetlands, the whales, the elephants, the fish, all of the beings on Earth, all of the ecosystems - then the Earth will still die a death of a million cuts. Even if we cut emissions to zero.

So be careful about getting diverted onto these, and used, to promote these technical solutions such as geoengineering, such as bleaching the sky a paler shade of blue with sulphur aerosols that reflect sunlight. Problem solved! If you’re going to keep the issue to a narrow matter of global warming, problem solved. Business as usual can continue and we’ve saved the world.

https://charleseisenstein.org/video/a-message-to-greta-thunberg-and-the-youth-climate-strikers/ (https://charleseisenstein.org/video/a-message-to-greta-thunberg-and-the-youth-climate-strikers/)

My mixed feelings are put quite well by this woman, her comments about the Obama photo op. are very insightful. fyi: I do eat organic fish and meat, but I do agree with respect to industrialized agriculture and animal husbandry.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1MQVwbhTIw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1MQVwbhTIw)

Can we please stop the bullshit labelling/ad hominems, and actually discuss points of view now?
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Florifulgurator on August 31, 2019, 11:44:08 PM
Labelling all those that question the Greta phenomenon as climate deniers
Pray tell, how else to label? (Perhaps conspiracy theorists? But these are also climate deniers...)

1. Hard Climate Deniers: [...]
So you seem to agree: Greta deniers are climate deniers. (Roughly said. Beware the nuances.)

Can't watch video at the moment (slow connection). But from your quote it seems that Charles Eisenstein thinks Greta is stupid (or, doesn't have sufficient grasp of the whole climate picture, being just a school girl). Nope, Greta is of a different league (not a neurotypical with an intellect clouded by ego neuroses.)  What makes her different is exactly that she doesn't need such trivial advice.

Hmmm, reminds of my own theory of Greta hate: Greta is a public threat to the intellectually impotent elderly (40+) white male.
(I have seen it not just from right wingnuts, but even from hardcore hippies. Now I need to analyse Mr. Eisenstein...)

Apropos Kevin Anderson: On Twitter (4. Dec 2018) he says:
Quote
On climate change @GretaThunberg demonstrates more clarity & leadership in one speech than a quarter of a century of the combined contributions of so called world leaders. Wilful ignorance & lies have overseen a 65% rise in CO2 since 1990. Time to hand over the baton.
https://twitter.com/kevinclimate/status/1069993545023528960
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: rboyd on September 01, 2019, 12:32:31 AM
Florifulgurator:
Quote
Greta is a public threat to the intellectually impotent elderly (40+) white male.


So much for an open intellectual discussion. Such puerile idiocy is astounding, and once again insulting the messenger. What can I say: you are welcome to your fantasy bubble. I will stop wasting my time dealing with such childishly idiotic statements and name calling from you.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Florifulgurator on September 01, 2019, 12:43:52 AM
Hmm. Maybe I should have read the thread first... :) Haven't seen Greta-is-a-puppet theorists before who aren't also climate deniers...

Even your concept of people with Aspergers having more meltdowns and having less control over emotions than nuerotypical people is wrong. Even as a generality it is wrong.
Yes. Thank you!
And Greta seems a great example. I'm not very good at face reading (possibly due to mild Aspergers :) ) - but it sure looks like Greta has great control over her emotions: In her early speeches I have seen something mightily scared - but she didn't shit her pants, as the present moment of speech was more important. And I have seen her want to cry, on the spot, but the present moment of speech was more important to her. Methinks her emotional control is heroic.

This makes it even less plausible (and more ridiculous) to think that Greta would be handled or manipulated by anybody.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: SATire on September 01, 2019, 12:53:37 AM
People who criticized Greta were usually proven wrong. That is easy to understand since she is just pointing to the science. E.g. the liberal politician in Germany who told her to let the professionals do the job was told by >1000 scientists (the professionals) in public the she was right and he not.

Finally critics was about her outfit or that she would be responsible for the CO2 caused by a ship or that other people fly - just as if you would be responsible for a 100 mio jet and the car of the pilot in case you buy a ticket for an airplane...

So - we got though the bullshit here since a year. Act better than Greta or let her do her fantastic job without nasty noises! Let your children do school strike - school is futile without future anyway.

 
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: sark on September 01, 2019, 03:25:58 AM
She's telling a fucked up story but it's true.  IN Sweden, and all over northern Europe and Britain they have been dealing with it, and now it has become perpetual, persistent, catastrophic climate variability starting, for them, around 2005.  Many people have been flipped by the experience of their own climate flipping away from them.  Similar to the way farms were ruined in Northern Europe, the US Corn Belt just suffered the same crop preventing rains.  Too wet and then extremely dry?  We are already basically fucked

Greta Thunberg got on a racing sail boat at the age of 16 and crossed the Atlantic, in this climate, to speak for the whole world.  She is completely glorious and a huge win for the human race & indeed, for all life on Earth.  already proven

There is to be expected trolling and Circustry around such an event.  We're sick.  People are rooting for collapse.  It's already visible outside of any window.  "How did it get this bad?"

Because we're unfit.

But I saw a young woman conquer the Atlantic on a little sail boat to speak to the world...
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: ShortBrutishNasty on September 01, 2019, 05:08:52 AM
Hey, rboyd!  Tough crowd tonight, eh??!! 

Back in the 80s, I did some stand-up. I had some Reagan bits that killed!!  And hecklers??!!  Oh, yeah!!  That's character building!!!!  I would do it again.  Wait!-- Florifulgurator and I have a room tonite after the show.  I'm going to show her my etchings.... the denialist ones......  hahahaha!

It's this thing about being entertaining.  Putting a smile on the world's face.......  Ah, yeah.......  Most assuredly, about 90% of the crowd is really pulling for you!!  That's nice!!

And I have some collapse material that would make George Carlin blush!!!!

Monster thanks for being there, rboyd.  Take care.

Sincerely,

Short, Brutish and, dang!-- what was that third one????

Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: VaughnAn on September 01, 2019, 06:32:44 AM
Quote
"Our house is on fire. I want you to panic. And act"

Sounds like a great mission statement to me; as such, I hope she adopts it as her official mission statement.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: blumenkraft on September 01, 2019, 08:51:07 AM
Florifulgurator:
Quote
Greta is a public threat to the intellectually impotent elderly (40+) white male.


So much for an open intellectual discussion. Such puerile idiocy is astounding, and once again insulting the messenger. What can I say: you are welcome to your fantasy bubble. I will stop wasting my time dealing with such childishly idiotic statements and name calling from you.

Why do you find this insulting? It's an objective and correct statement not directly aimed at you. Or is it? 

Quote
Time to hand over the baton.

Saying kind of the same. Did you went on Twitter and told him this is a personal attack on you?
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Aporia_filia on September 01, 2019, 11:19:25 AM
Sorry if I'm a bit persistent about asking you to think of human species as something different to human individuals. (I'll try to post a doc showing the difference between a bee hive and a bee as an individual).
It doesn't matters if you're wrong or right, but at certain  point we all love arguing about the sex of the Angels. When we all know they don't exist!!!
It is a social, very deeply attached, characteristic of us humans. The nicer speech (this involves a lot of speech's characteristics) will win social acceptation, giving a higher social status to the person who made it, even if he was just defending that all angels are female.
Greta is not as affected as the rest of us about this social behavioral primate's constriction. She wouldn't waist her time discussing Angel's sex. She's just telling what's important without a lot of the emotional restrictions the rest of us have.
Don't argue about angels and ACT!!!
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: SATire on September 01, 2019, 11:56:01 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1MQVwbhTIw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1MQVwbhTIw)

Can we please stop the bullshit labelling/ad hominems, and actually discuss points of view now?
I agree to your last sentence and would like to give it back to the people like the obviously good-willing woman in your video - I watched her 30 min whining with quite a few misunderstandings.

Greta is not telling the politicians what to do. She is telling politicians to do what they promised (e.g. 1990 in Rio and 2015 in Paris) and to do what the sciences worked out what should be done.
Of course the politicians benefit from meeting her since they get a picture which is interesting for the world. But Greta also benefits since she can impact a decision maker and possible distributor. And much more.
Judge by yourself, another 40 sec at Davos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScgUSdZNKxg

And at this press conference in Brussels Greta explains a bit why some people criticize FFF and say they would be puppets: To change subject away from climate crisis. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzH1OuqvaAg

If you are "real progressives" please contribute with action and do not work against people who act. 1990 was the time to discuss what do do - emission trade or CO2 tax, 0 CO2 emission or carbon removal or mitigation. That time is over and we have 5 past 12. Now we have to do all of those things at once and fast. It is time to start action. So act. Do not stand in the way of people who are acting.

Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: SATire on September 01, 2019, 04:50:02 PM
Quote
"Our house is on fire. I want you to panic. And act"

Sounds like a great mission statement to me; as such, I hope she adopts it as her official mission statement.
Since those are her words in her <3 min pitch at the world economy forum in Davos your hope came true it seem. Watch and judge yourself:
https://youtu.be/RjsLm5PCdVQ
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: VaughnAn on September 01, 2019, 07:13:53 PM
Quote
Since those are her words in her <3 min pitch at the world economy forum in Davos your hope came true it seem. Watch and judge yourself:

Yes, Greta is on a mission.  I hope now more people listen.  Thanks for the video.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: ShortBrutishNasty on September 01, 2019, 07:49:33 PM
"Greta Thunberg, the green teen from Sweden who sailed on a racing yacht from Europe to New York City because she refuses to fly on a plane, did not speak on Friday at a “climate strike” protest at the United Nation’s headquarters. She marched with the few dozen young people that showed up but sat silently as protesters chanted and gave speeches."  Emphasis added.

Well, that didn't take very long, did it??  Smart girl.  Just can't stay on script.

Here she is, sitting silently, pondering how ridiculously ineffective that 15-day sailboat stunt was....  See the handler there to Greta's left?
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: be cause on September 01, 2019, 07:54:59 PM
I don't know if you are a short nasty brute in real life .. but you do your best here .. thank goodness Greta does not have you shitting beside her . b.c.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: SATire on September 01, 2019, 08:26:52 PM
... Here she is, sitting silently, pondering how ridiculously ineffective that 15-day sailboat stunt was.... 
...
Either what you say or thinking about her own answer from today on instagram: "When haters go after your looks and differences, it means they have nowhere left to go. And you know you're winning." ("you" here is Greta not someone Nasty). 
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: VaughnAn on September 01, 2019, 11:41:38 PM
... Here she is, sitting silently, pondering how ridiculously ineffective that 15-day sailboat stunt was.... 
...
Either what you say or thinking about her own answer from today on instagram: "When haters go after your looks and differences, it means they have nowhere left to go. And you know you're winning." ("you" here is Greta not someone Nasty).

Not only that, when "haters" make nasty comments about others, the "haters" are actually talking about themselves even though they(the "haters") think they are talking about others.  This is just the way it works.  The more "haters" say the more immaterial they sound and their effectiveness approaches an asymptote near zero.

As for the photo of Greta above, One learns more with her ears open and her mouth shut than the other way around.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: TerryM on September 01, 2019, 11:50:58 PM
Spare some thoughts for the child, as well as for the icon.
Terry
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Sebastian Jones on September 02, 2019, 12:27:55 AM
An interesting article that explores the connection between those who attack Thunberg with climate deniers, misogynists and the right wing:
https://newrepublic.com/article/154879/misogyny-climate-deniers?fbclid=IwAR0NUWJOi0Y9jXVRHFzR-Jm0X_7fBORXTPTHNCZ8BvzGrtGnAOkvLXb98U4 (https://newrepublic.com/article/154879/misogyny-climate-deniers?fbclid=IwAR0NUWJOi0Y9jXVRHFzR-Jm0X_7fBORXTPTHNCZ8BvzGrtGnAOkvLXb98U4)
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: ShortBrutishNasty on September 02, 2019, 01:51:29 AM
[Epic face palm]

Sebastian, SATire, et al.:  Yes, there are "haters" out there, but WHEN DID I EVER MOCK OR CRITICIZE GRETA? Where are you getting this stuff?  Did you read my post three days ago?

[Second epic face palm]

Only 22 days till Greta speaks at the Climate Summit.  You guys need to up your game.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Rodius on September 02, 2019, 02:22:21 AM
Why do you keep attacking the messenger?

For someone who thinks they are a well read layperson concerning Aspergers, you really dont know much about it at all.

Let me educate you somewhat because you seem to need it.

1 - she is almost certainly disliking sitting around so many people. Why? Because several of her senses will probably be overstimulated and the most effective way to cope is to attempt to ignore them. Not easily done.

2 - as mentioned elsewhere, her diagnosis, or part of it, named one aspect where she only speaks when there is a need to speak, or when she feels like she has something to say. Personally, I am the same and in that situation in the photo, I would be doing exactly the same thing. Bored, overstimulated and having nothing to add to anything because it is already being said or I have already said it.

Also, one image says bugger all. Look at the people around her with the same look on their face? I bet most are neuro typicals, are you going to give a critical analysis on them as well?

And she is on script.
She speaks her mind.
She is consistent.
She quotes the science.

3 - Asperger's people have another quality that is lacking in neurotypical people.... it is called hyper focus. If anything, she will double down on this, not disappear. She will not stop, ever, until she feels she has resolved her own criteria for action being taken.
Trust me on this one, she is hyper focused on this. She will not simply disappear.

And stop talking about the people around her as being her handler. She is not a dog or a pet. She is a teenage woman who needs support just like any other human being. Seriously, just how much more insulting could you become?
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: wili on September 02, 2019, 03:37:47 AM
Thanks for the thoughtful and informative response, Rodius.

As the saying goes, some people need to stop believing everything they think! :)
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: SATire on September 02, 2019, 09:38:49 AM
Greta will not stop soon. In Brussles (see her press conference video in post #96) she told us that she will not stop before Sweden is in line with the 1.5 °C warming target. She probably has found her life-time job and she is doing this job exeptionally well I think.

When I visited USA for first time after school I was overhelmed by New York for several days. Now imagine Gretas speciality, her 15 days with very few people on a large ocean and then she droped in that loud, fast, brutal and interesting big apple. Considering also that people in USA are not so famous for beeing nice listeners she may have realized, that her "ridiculously ineffective (...) stunt" did not end but started while stepping from board.

I hope she may find some native friends who can do the job is USA. Those need to be especially crazy pioneers since that job is way more difficult than the one in Sweden...
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: blumenkraft on September 02, 2019, 05:43:25 PM
Here she is, sitting silently, pondering how ridiculously ineffective that 15-day sailboat stunt was....  See the handler there to Greta's left?

You keep making assumptions.

WHEN DID I EVER MOCK OR CRITICIZE GRETA?

There are a lot of answers to this answer but since you don't understand them, here again in plain language:

Your imbecile assumptions are seen as offensive.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: blumenkraft on September 02, 2019, 05:50:01 PM
Thanks for the thoughtful and informative response, Rodius.

+1
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Tom_Mazanec on September 02, 2019, 06:50:50 PM
Greta Thunberg’s Slow Boat to New York
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019/09/09/greta-thunbergs-slow-boat-to-new-york
Quote
Last year, Thunberg began striking by skipping school every Friday to protest government inaction on climate change, inspiring kids around the world to do the same. On August 14th, she departed from Plymouth, England, on the Malizia II, an emission-free sailboat, to attend a climate summit at the United Nations on September 23rd. (She avoids airplanes, which are among the worst sources of carbon emissions.) During the two-week journey, she had posted several dispatches on Twitter. Early Wednesday morning, she documented her first sighting of the dim lights of New York. “Land!!” she wrote. After clearing customs and immigration while anchored off Coney Island, she waited on the boat for the incoming tide. With no engine, the Malizia had to rely on natural forces to propel it to its landing place.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: blumenkraft on September 02, 2019, 07:40:49 PM
From reddit/r/aspergers

Déjà vu anyone?

Read the whole thing!
Link >> https://www.reddit.com/r/aspergers/comments/cyp3k3/greta_thunberg_speaks_about_how_she_used/
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: bligh8 on September 03, 2019, 04:56:00 PM
Some comments & interviews w/Greta and others the day she arrived in NY, after a quick jump across the pond.

For anyone living in the tri state area.
https://strikewithus.org/rsvp-thanks/

https://youtu.be/qB8jXY5uWaI
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: VaughnAn on September 04, 2019, 08:14:21 PM
John Iadarola discusses climate deniers in this video.  It is important to remember that when these climate deniers call the climate activists names they, the climate deniers, haters, etc., are actually talking about themselves and demonstrating their own stupidity.  John Iadarola explains this eloquently:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oz2iJ1GCR3k (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oz2iJ1GCR3k)
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: etienne on September 05, 2019, 03:42:06 PM
The book is also crossing the Atlantic, and should be ready for "buy nothing day" (November 29th, 2019).
https://www.penguinrandomhouse.ca/books/626179/our-house-is-on-fire-by-malena-ernman-with-greta-beata-and-svante-thunberg/9780241419632
I am reading the German version "Szenen aus dem Herzen". Other languages are already available too.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Tom_Mazanec on September 06, 2019, 11:32:14 PM
Read the demands from the upcoming climate strike
https://www.fastcompany.com/90398587/read-the-demands-from-the-upcoming-climate-strike
Quote
A year ago, Greta Thunberg, the now-16-year-old climate activist, stopped going to school in order to stand outside Swedish Parliament and protest the lack of climate action. She inspired youth climate strikes around the world—including a massive strike planned for September 20. Today, a coalition of American youth climate activists who are planning that strike released a list of their policy demands, hours before Democratic presidential candidates appear in back-to-back town halls focused on climate change.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Tom_Mazanec on September 09, 2019, 06:25:45 PM
This Entire Week Has Been Incredibly Depressing. But Then Today in New York I Saw a Young Woman Give People Hope.
https://www.motherjones.com/environment/2019/09/greta-thunberg-new-york/
Quote
“We shouldn’t be talking about ‘believing’ in the climate crisis,” Thunberg said during the rally that followed the students’ quiet protest. “Either you understand and accept the science, or you don’t. As long as we keep talking about believing, or thinking climate change is real, then it’s seen as something you choose to believe in, and then it gets turned into an opinion. And if it’s an opinion, it can be debated.”
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Tom_Mazanec on September 11, 2019, 09:46:10 PM
Greta Thunberg to join 'climate strike' event outside White House
https://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/460757-greta-thunberg-to-join-climate-strike-event-outside-white-house
Quote
Swedish climate activist Greta Thunberg will participate in a climate strike outside the White House Friday as part of a six-day visit to Washington, D.C., a representative for Thunberg said in a statement Tuesday.

Thunberg will join other youth activists to gather and demand action one week before a series of global climate strikes slated for Sept. 20. Thunberg will also join other youth activists in lobbying Congress during her visit to the capital, according to the statement.

THE RIGHT TO A FUTURE — WITH NAOMI KLEIN AND GRETA THUNBERG
https://theintercept.com/2019/09/06/greta-thunberg-naomi-klein-climate-change-livestream/
Quote
THE INTERCEPT INVITES you to watch a special event in New York City hosted by Intercept senior correspondent Naomi Klein, author of the forthcoming book “On Fire: The (Burning) Case for a Green New Deal,” and headlined by trailblazing climate activist Greta Thunberg, author of “No One Is Too Small to Make a Difference.”
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: NevB on September 12, 2019, 02:14:01 PM
Just a great photo

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DyBTToyXcAEHDBH?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: SATire on September 12, 2019, 03:27:55 PM
Who ist that lady next to Greta?

Thank you for posting what happens to Greta in the US. The media here don't say much about Greta in the USA.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: blumenkraft on September 12, 2019, 03:33:55 PM
This is Jane Goodall.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jane_Goodall

PS: I can imagine today is quite a big day for Greta.  :D
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: ShortBrutishNasty on September 12, 2019, 03:37:30 PM
I agree.  Great photo from Davos global-elite-fest last January.

Here's another.  Off-the-charts cringe.  She knows.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: ShortBrutishNasty on September 12, 2019, 03:55:35 PM
Tonight she's on The Daily Show!   Activism Works!
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: NevB on September 12, 2019, 05:02:44 PM
Who ist that lady next to Greta?

Thank you for posting what happens to Greta in the US. The media here don't say much about Greta in the USA.

That's Jane Goodall, google everything you can find about her, adding her to your life can only make you much more optimistic about humanity.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: NevB on September 12, 2019, 05:18:03 PM
I agree.  Great photo from Davos global-elite-fest last January.

Here's another.  Off-the-charts cringe.  She knows.

Thank you for posting what happens to Greta in the US. The media here don't say much about Greta in the USA.

Who ist that lady next to Greta?


Congrats you will be the first person ever on my ignore list since sometime around 2007.

i think you have nothing to offer here other than promoting the hate that divides us.

That by the way is a compliment to Neven who's super power has made this place the most trusted of all.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: SATire on September 12, 2019, 05:20:26 PM
That's Jane Goodall, google everything you can find about her, adding her to your life can only make you much more optimistic about humanity.
Thank you. I know Jane Goodall's work. But I could not realize her in that picture with Greta. Must be fun in NY for Greta since she likes to discuss with scientists - much better than small talk or such buzz.

Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Neven on September 12, 2019, 06:55:51 PM
Tonight she's on The Daily Show!   Activism Works!

I really dislike that Trevor Noah guy, and I'm curious at all the feelgood PC BS he's going to vomit all over Greta. Can someone post a video later on?
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: ShortBrutishNasty on September 12, 2019, 08:06:53 PM
Greta Thunberg on The Daily Show.  About 9 minutes.

http://www.cc.com/video-clips/ed6ma7/the-daily-show-with-trevor-noah-greta-thunberg---inspiring-others-to-take-a-stand-against-climate-change---extended-interview (http://www.cc.com/video-clips/ed6ma7/the-daily-show-with-trevor-noah-greta-thunberg---inspiring-others-to-take-a-stand-against-climate-change---extended-interview)
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: philopek on September 12, 2019, 11:03:43 PM
Just a great photo

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DyBTToyXcAEHDBH?format=jpg&name=900x900)

Looks like the "Lady" that studied and lived with the Gorillas in the mist ;)

I think her name was Jane Goodall but I may err.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Florifulgurator on September 13, 2019, 12:45:02 AM
Quite an impressive series of interviews... :) :D
Looks like the one with Trevor Noah was best (most crisp and fresh).  --- RRRRrrr Fffu'*! Perkele! The CC link does not serve video to Germany, and a YouTube copy is blocked likewise. Only on the FB page was a 4 minute snippet...

Here is Amy Goodman's long thing: (Second time after the one in Katowice - the other 2 videos.)
https://youtu.be/Dgi30Wy_V74



... Here she is, sitting silently, pondering how ridiculously ineffective that 15-day sailboat stunt was.... 
...
Ha!-HAAAaaaaaaaaahahahaha...

-------------------------------

Katowice (December 2018) interview Part 1:
https://youtu.be/0TYyBtb1PH4

Katowice interview Part 2, together with Kevin Anderson:
https://youtu.be/7ElUIm-bd9Y
"... and we don't want to be screwed." -- Greta

Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: wili on September 13, 2019, 01:34:46 AM
Phil, Gorillas in the Mist is a book and then movie about Dian Fossey, another of Leakey's 'Trimates.' Jane Goodall studied chimps.

Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Florifulgurator on September 13, 2019, 02:38:00 AM
CBS This Morning:

https://youtu.be/BQ4rBLCpEeM
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: KiwiGriff on September 13, 2019, 03:22:29 AM
For an Aspie she copes with normies well.
I remember when I first read Desmond Morris "Man watching" and realized how much I miss in communication with normies . That epiphany happened long before I even knew what  asperger's  is and that I was one.
We Aspies don't do small talk it is mostly meaningless incomprehensible monkey chatter to us and very difficult to follow your thinking and read what you don't say in personal interactions.
It is not at all surprising to an  Aspie that Greta looks defensive when engaging with highly skilled social normies and comfortable when she is engaging with scientists.  We don't grok social chatter we do get and are comfortable with anyone who can impart knowledge in something that interests us. .
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: nanning on September 13, 2019, 07:51:04 AM
<snip>
Katowice (December 2018) interview Part 1:
Katowice interview Part 2, together with Kevin Anderson:
"... and we don't want to be screwed." -- Greta

Thank you for these links Florifulgurator. They were interesting to watch :).

Strangely and beautifully, I recognise a lot of arguments and acting upon them by Greta.
My very strong 'feeling' of justice (morality) and personal responsibility has made me go all the way to ZERO DIRECT EMISSIONS and move away from the civilisation interpretation of 'good life'. Live like people lived in the old days. And started my research in urban hermitage to find the reasons for civilisation and human behaviour.

I would expect all people like Greta and like me, to follow our paths. This is in general not what I observe.
Then again, I consciously never became a grown-up. Perhaps that is the distinction?
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: NevB on September 13, 2019, 11:56:44 AM
Just a great photo

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DyBTToyXcAEHDBH?format=jpg&name=900x900)

Looks like the "Lady" that studied and lived with the Gorillas in the mist ;)

I think her name was Jane Goodall but I may err.


You are correct, that is Jane Goodall, she is also an absolutely wonderful person.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Sigmetnow on September 13, 2019, 01:47:01 PM
CBS This Morning:


Greta:  “Not a hunger strike.”

Gotta love how Aspergers permits a quick correction to his quite ignorant statement, without concern for social niceties.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: philopek on September 13, 2019, 11:08:50 PM
Phil, Gorillas in the Mist is a book and then movie about Dian Fossey, another of Leakey's 'Trimates.' Jane Goodall studied chimps.

Thanks for putting things right.

While the Chimps, not Gorillas was a clear error.
The "mist" thing was a failed attempt of kidding, leaning to the movie,
should have added a "Winky" but then it was wrong either way ;) ;)


Glad I said I wasn't sure ;) ;)

Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Florifulgurator on September 14, 2019, 12:07:35 AM
CBS This Morning:


Greta:  “Not a hunger strike.”

Gotta love how Aspergers permits a quick correction to his quite ignorant statement, without concern for social niceties.

Another highlight of this interview: To shame those "who need shaming".

This is almost exactly what I'm saying since about as long as Greta is alive (but never got the "main caveat of violent communication" that short and crisp)... It needs a little (looking) school girl to get that across...

Use the technical term "Bullshit" more often, I say.  What the Very Serious People (Krugman) fear most is public Shame! Shame! Shame!
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Very_Serious_People
Climate denial should be as socially unacceptable as Auschwitz denial or as ridiculous as flat Earthism.

<edit Neven: Someone asked me to remove this video because it's misogynistic and sexually degrading, and therefore not suited in a thread about a young girl. I do not entirely agree because it's about shaming climate risk deniers and I don't know the context, as I don't watch GoT. But I do find GoT tasteless and stupid like other sadistic series as The Walking Dead and so on, and so that should be enough reasons all in all to remove the video. Martin has made his point.>

Shirley & Co - Shame Shame Shame
https://youtu.be/YEzQV75LDL0




Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Florifulgurator on September 14, 2019, 01:55:57 AM
P.S.: Accidentally, Amy Goodman's interviews reveal who Greta's actual handler and donor of interview time is. Any guess? :) Conspiracy explained!
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: blumenkraft on September 14, 2019, 08:40:20 AM
To shame those "who need shaming".
...
It needs a little (looking) school girl to get that across...

Even Kant needed way more words to say that.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: SATire on September 14, 2019, 01:20:18 PM
P.S.: Accidentally, Amy Goodman's interviews reveal who Greta's actual handler and donor of interview time is. Any guess? :) Conspiracy explained!
Her litle sister? No. I did not get it. Please enlight me.
Next Friday also companies and grown ups start to join fff. Greta disrupts.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Sigmetnow on September 14, 2019, 01:46:54 PM
New York City

Quote
NYC Public Schools (@NYCSchools) 9/12/19, 12:54 PM
.@NYCSchools will excuse absences of students participating in the #ClimateStrike on Friday 9/20. Students will need parental consent. Younger students can only leave school with a parent.
https://twitter.com/nycschools/status/1172191885928095744

Mayor Bill de Blasio (@NYCMayor) 9/12/19, 12:35 PM
.@NYCSchools will be sharing guidance with parents, educators and students on how students will be able to participate in next Friday’s events in the next few days. #ClimateStrike

NYC Public Schools (@NYCSchools) 9/12/19, 1:51 PM
We applaud our students when they raise their voices in a safe and respectful manner on issues that matter to them. Young people around the world are joining the #ClimateStrike this week—showing that student action will lead us forward.

NYC Public Schools (@NYCSchools) 9/12/19, 1:54 PM
We will share guidance with schools, and encourage class discussions about the impact of climate change, and the importance of civic engagement. #ClimateStrike
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Florifulgurator on September 16, 2019, 01:52:45 AM
Please enlight me.
A radical climate scientist, of course. (Who else but radicals get interviews with Amy Goodman? (In that class Greta is one of the most radical!))  Perhaps govt funded. (Hint: certainly not Russian...).

-----------------------
Martin G. notes: One of my best math exercise formulations :) Next: Greta in Hilbert space (*).

( * P.S.: Isn't she one of the cutest of deterministic Schrödinger cats? (And no, I'm not thinking of Botero... [~~]
https://jonathan-meynrath.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/look952.png

~~
(https://c8.alamy.com/comp/ENKMNH/woman-standing-by-mona-lisa-monalisa-painting-by-fernando-botero-at-ENKMNH.jpg)
)
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: SATire on September 16, 2019, 08:37:27 AM
A radical climate scientist, of course.
(the "handler" of Greta, context above)
That is a no brainer. Greta follows science. Today realistic is often called radical. Probably because many people got used to be radically wrong. 
Perhaps govt funded. (Hint: certainly not Russian...).
I guess the Swedish government? No, she was demonstraiting against it... Swiss? I do not get your humor (just hoping it is humor, what I do not get).

That she is not a Russian spy and that Merkel was misunderstood Greta explained here (Poeple say such bullshit just to change subject away from climate crisis. Do not follow in wrong directions):   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzH1OuqvaAg
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: blumenkraft on September 16, 2019, 09:17:45 AM
I do not get your humor (just hoping it is humor, what I do not get).

Same!

Quote
Dictionary

handler
/ˈhandlə/
noun: handler; plural noun: handlers
1.
a person who handles or deals with certain articles or commodities.
"a baggage handler"
a device which handles certain articles or substances.
"the company launched three telescopic handlers"
2.
a person who trains or has charge of an animal, in particular a police officer in charge of a dog.
3.
a person who trains or manages another person.
a person who trains and acts as second to a boxer.
a publicity agent.
a person who directs the activities of a spy or other freelance agent.

To those who call Greta a puppet of handlers, which definition of the word are you implying and for what reason?

In general, i have the impression the word is negatively connoted and i see it as a smear if used in the context of Greta.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: nanning on September 16, 2019, 10:33:28 AM
Thank you for that videolink and your defence of Greta, SATire.
And I also didn't get it.
I agree with you and blumenkraft. I get you both :) .
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: VaughnAn on September 16, 2019, 03:23:18 PM
Please enlight me.
A radical climate scientist, of course. (Who else but radicals get interviews with Amy Goodman? (In that class Greta is one of the most radical!))  Perhaps govt funded. (Hint: certainly not Russian...).

-----------------------
Martin G. notes: One of my best math exercise formulations :) Next: Greta in Hilbert space (*).

( * P.S.: Isn't she one of the cutest of deterministic Schrödinger cats? (And no, I'm not thinking of Botero... [~~]
~~~ snippage


Please enlighten me too if you are making a joke of this for I understand not.  If you are being serious you are certainly only talking about yourself, so if that is the case, what you think you are saying fades to meaningless dribble.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Sigmetnow on September 16, 2019, 03:29:24 PM
Misogyny, meet hypocrisy: Climate deniers go after AOC, Greta Thunberg with sexist attacks
https://cnnews9.com/2019/08/31/misogyny-meet-hypocrisy-climate-deniers-go-after-aoc-greta-thunberg-with-sexist-attacks-salon/
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: blumenkraft on September 16, 2019, 05:03:46 PM
Climate deniers go after AOC, Greta Thunberg with sexist attacks

Why do i have to share a planet with such scumbags?

Must have been a very very evil worm in a former life...
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Tom_Mazanec on September 16, 2019, 05:07:50 PM
Not just Greta:
Green with rage: Women climate change leaders face online attacks
https://theconversation.com/green-with-rage-women-climate-change-leaders-face-online-attacks-123155
Quote
Women leaders who support climate action are being attacked online with increasing regularity. These attacks should be viewed as a problem not only for the planet, but also to the goals of achieving gender equality and more inclusive, democratic politics.

Teen activist Greta Thunberg takes her youth climate campaign to Washington
https://beta.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2019/09/13/teen-activist-greta-thunberg-takes-her-youth-climate-campaign-washington/
Quote
Before her latest strike, in front of the White House on Friday, Thunberg sat for an interview with The Washington Post. She spoke about how the climate debate is different in the United States, whether she considers herself an optimist and how she approaches the criticism that has accompanied her meteoric rise over the past year.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: ShortBrutishNasty on September 16, 2019, 05:52:50 PM
Correction Re: Greta's Handler

In my Post #99 on Sept. 1, I published a photo (first attached below) and hastily intimated that Greta had a "handler" present with her.  After further research, it is most likely that the woman to Greta's left is actually a fairly mature-looking 14-yr old Alexandria Villasenor and definitely not Greta's handler.  (See second attached photo below; Alexandria's wiki page.)  I regret this mistake.

That being said, I remain entirely vigilant to the persons, handlers and forces who would attempt to co-opt, control, and/or completely silence Greta's message.  People who drive 5 million USD sailboats are NOT the good guys.

So two more weeks of NYC excitement.   And then...?  Everybody stay frosty.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: nanning on September 16, 2019, 06:06:44 PM
Thank you for that great post ShortBrutishNasty :) .

Re: extremely intelligent 16 year olds. To understand, don't think of them as children, not in the sense of not being developed. They may not have yet our detail of certain understanding of culture but their view of reality is sharper than extremely intelligent grown-ups. They are not yet blinded by what grown-ups call 'normal' without thinking about it. These young humans are used to thinking and learning. Most grown-ups are not. This is a completely new situation and the grown-ups seem stuck in their non-learning ways.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Tom_Mazanec on September 16, 2019, 06:10:21 PM
Greta Thunberg on the Climate Fight: “If We Can Save the Banks, Then We Can Save the World”
https://theintercept.com/2019/09/13/greta-thunberg-naomi-klein-climate/
Quote
Thunberg and the many other amazing young organizers have been very clear that they do not want adults to pat them on the head and thank them for the hope infusion. They want us to join them and fight for the future alongside them. Because it is their right. And all of our duty.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: VaughnAn on September 16, 2019, 06:59:02 PM
Thank you for that great post ShortBrutishNasty :) .

Re: extremely intelligent 16 year olds. To understand, don't think of them as children, not in the sense of not being developed. They may not have yet our detail of certain understanding of culture but their view of reality is sharper than extremely intelligent grown-ups. They are not yet blinded by what grown-ups call 'normal' without thinking about it. These young humans are used to thinking and learning. Most grown-ups are not. This is a completely new situation and the grown-ups seem stuck in their non-learning ways.

If my memory serves me correctly, young children and others with certain abilities easily solve this test; many or most "normal" adults fail miserably.  Some people like Greta process information and provide much more viable solutions to problems that many "adults" have difficulty processing.  It's fun; try it a see how you do(answers below):
                            The Giraffe, Elephant, Refrigerator Logic Test

The following short quiz consists of 4 questions and will tell you whether you are qualified to be a professional. The questions are NOT that difficult.

1. How do you put a giraffe into a refrigerator?

2. How do you put an elephant into a refrigerator?

3. The Lion King is hosting an animal conference. All the animals attend.... except one. Which animal does not attend?
Correct Answer: The Elephant. The elephant is in the refrigerator. You just put him in there. This tests your memory.
Okay, even if you did not answer the first three questions correctly, you still have one more chance to show your true abilities.
4. There is a river you must cross but it is used by crocodiles, and you do not have a boat. How do you manage it?


Answers:


1.Correct Answer: Open the refrigerator, put in the giraffe, and close the door. This question tests whether you tend to do simple things in an overly complicated way.
2. Did you say, Open the refrigerator, put in the elephant, and close the refrigerator? Wrong Answer.
Correct Answer: Open the refrigerator, take out the giraffe, put in the elephant and close the door. This tests your ability to think through the repercussions of your previous actions.
3. Correct Answer: The Elephant. The elephant is in the refrigerator. You just put him in there. This tests your memory.
4. Correct Answer: You jump into the river and swim across. Have you not been listening? All the crocodiles are attending the Animal Meeting. This tests whether you learn quickly from your mistakes.


*from cloversites. com
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: nanning on September 16, 2019, 07:09:08 PM
The question and answer to
"2. How do you put an elephant into a refrigerator?"
doesn't imply
"The elephant is in the refrigerator. You just put him in there"

edit: and "a refrigerator" is not the same as "the refrigerator"

(my answer to 1. and 2. were "find a really large refrigerator with huge doors")
I guess that I don't quality as a professional  :-[   :-\

Apologies being off-topic.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: SATire on September 16, 2019, 07:11:45 PM
So two more weeks of NYC excitement.   And then...?  Everybody stay frosty.
Canada, Chile... Greta takes 1 year off for traveling. Thus no need for planes. And way better education than any school can provide.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: blumenkraft on September 16, 2019, 07:16:09 PM
That being said, I remain entirely vigilant to the persons, handlers and forces who would attempt to co-opt, control, and/or completely silence Greta's message.  People who drive 5 million USD sailboats are NOT the good guys.

You keep saying handlers!

I have the impression you don't really understand what you are doing.

You are questioning the independence of Greta using this word, do you understand that? You are smearing her by doing so.

Sorry man, but your regret means dogshit until you stop talking about her like this.

This is not about a boat!
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Florifulgurator on September 16, 2019, 09:54:28 PM
Please enlighten me too
Greta's handler is the radical climate scientist Kevin Anderson. Somewhere in her interview Amy Goodman explains that Anderson urged Amy to give more time to Greta and not to him.

"Radical climate scientist" is of course joking.

(Sorry, I bet it's in the latest interview. Can't find the time of it right now. I re-listened yesterday to post it here - but then I forgot about it. Not in the mood to listen to the whole thing a 3rd time :) Later. First for the press conference posted here. Thanks for posting!)

Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: zufall on September 16, 2019, 10:05:33 PM
In the video, GT explains that she frequently calls or texts several climate scientists, including Anderson, in order to ensure that she doesn't make factual errors, and that they always respond quickly. Which is of course not "handling" in the sense of directing someone. It's only logical.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Florifulgurator on September 16, 2019, 10:16:10 PM
That being said, I remain entirely vigilant to the persons, handlers and forces who would attempt to co-opt, control, and/or completely silence Greta's message.
Her message is mostly science. How to control that? Granted, someone might give her stupid ideas about politics. But her's is a science and fact brain and she very much looks like she understands this danger.

Greta is the handler, from mom and dad to the sailboat folks. I might be more worried about Greta mis-handling someone else or the wrong people:

Quote
People who drive 5 million USD sailboats are NOT the good guys.
The bad ones would invest the millions into a mainstream sailboat. But this one was no boat for the decadent. The guys here are dedicated freaks. I would have done like Greta. Maybe she just said "Eff the nitpicking, lets have some adventure!"



------------------------------------

<edit Neven: Someone asked me to remove this video because it's misogynistic and sexually degrading, and therefore not suited in a thread about a young girl. I do not entirely agree because it's about shaming climate risk deniers and I don't know the context, as I don't watch GoT. But I do find GoT tasteless and stupid like other sadistic series as The Walking Dead and so on, and so that should be enough reasons all in all to remove the video. Martin has made his point.>
Yeah. Indeed. Sorry about that. (Should have tried harder to find a shorter less offensive snippet, or the satire ad - or just forget it.)
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: bligh8 on September 17, 2019, 06:11:43 PM
Brands Including Lush, Patagonia, and Outdoor Voices Are Joining Greta Thunberg in the Climate Strike 2019

Select quotes 

If you're joining the worldwide Climate Strike, which kicks off on September 20, some of your favorite brands and retailers may be striking right alongside you. The strike, which begins three days before the UN Climate Summit, is meant to call attention to the climate crisis and "demand climate justice for everyone." The Climate Strike will be taking place all over the world throughout the week and is led by inspiring young activists like Greta Thunberg who are concerned about the future of our environment.

Fast Company reports that Ben and Jerry's ice cream shops and their corporate office will be closed during the strike so their employees can join in, while Lush is temporarily closing its 250 stores in the United States and Canada in solidarity.

Patagonia wrote about the strike and the young activists leading the charge on its blog, The Cleanest Line. "The great climate strike that will take place around the world this Friday has its roots in the efforts of junior high and high school students, with more than a few elementary school students thrown in," wrote environmentalist and author Bill McKibben. "I’ve gotten to know many of them—not just Greta Thunberg, but also the young people on every continent who are carrying out the same noble work

Dozens of other brands are participating in the strikes, including Dr. Bronner's, Eileen Fisher, Opening Ceremony, Outdoor Voices, Seventh Generation, and Thinx, according to Fast Company. And the strike isn't limited to clothing stores and brands; digital companies like Tumblr and Imgur are participating too.

https://www.teenvogue.com/story/brands-joining-greta-thunberg-climate-strike-2019

bligh

Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Florifulgurator on September 17, 2019, 08:28:48 PM
Latest Amy Goodman interview:

Naomi Klein: Greta Thunberg Is a “Prophetic Voice” in Fight for Climate Justice

Renowned activist, author and professor Naomi Klein discusses the importance of youth voices, including 16-year-old Swedish climate activist Greta Thunberg, in communicating the urgency of the climate justice movement. Klein’s new book, “On Fire: The (Burning) Case for a Green New Deal,” addresses the necessity of structural change to combat rising global temperatures and climate injustices. Klein praises Greta for her “moral clarity” as one of many youth voices that “burst through the bureaucratic language with which we shield ourselves from the reality of the stakes, the extraordinary stakes, of our moment in history.”

https://youtu.be/4eiil4XoMJA

Transcript: https://www.democracynow.org/2019/9/17/naomi_klein_greta_thunberg_youth_activists

--------------------------
Interesting tidbit: Who has most influence on the elderly conservative climate denier? Their teenage daughters.

Dangerous wörd: "prophetic". Meaning here: Having the charisma and moral depth and clarity of a prophet.
Here in Germany there was some fuss in March when a Greens politician called Greta a prophet:
https://www.kirche-duisburg.de/1739kanzelredekge.php
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Florifulgurator on September 17, 2019, 11:08:06 PM
Finally the long version available in Germany:
https://www.facebook.com/thedailyshow/videos/635097820349768/UzpfSTEwMDAwMTQ0NTI2MTkzNzoyNTYyNjA2ODgwNDY0MTI5/
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: SATire on September 17, 2019, 11:14:37 PM
Brands Including Lush, Patagonia, and Outdoor Voices Are Joining Greta Thunberg in the Climate Strike 2019
This is very positive. Also here companies join Greta's Friday for Future - today 1800 companies committed to strike next Friday (including mine, but I will not disclose which): https://klima-streik.net/liste-der-unternehmen/

I want to cite Greta: "Activism works.",  "see you on the street."

September 20th is the next Friday.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: ShortBrutishNasty on September 18, 2019, 01:38:08 AM
We're getting close, boys and girls!!!  Stay frosty!

From schools.nyc.gov:

Student Absences During Climate Strike on September 20, 2019

On Friday, September 20, students may decide to participate in the Climate Strike, a youth-organized event for action against climate change.

The Department of Education (DOE) will excuse absences of students participating in the Climate Strike on Friday 9/20, provided students have parental consent. Younger students can only leave school with a parent. Here is additional important guidance:

Both partial and full day absences will be considered excused with parental permission.

There will be no disciplinary consequences for excused absences.

Elementary school students need to be signed out by parents or guardians if they wish to participate in the walkout.

Parents giving permission for their child to be absent should notify schools in the same manner they normally would based on the school’s established attendance protocol (e.g., in writing, by phone, etc.).

If a student is present for a portion of the day, they are considered present for the day and absent for any class periods not attended.

If a middle or high school student participates in the strike without parental permission, the student’s absence will not be excused.

If students leave school for a portion of the day without parental permission, their absence from the class periods they miss will be unexcused. 

Read more about attendance policies at the DOE.

Participation in the walkout is an individual decision, and we encourage your family to discuss your plans ahead of time.

Please contact your school with any questions about attendance protocol. You can find your child's school contact information by using Find a School.

###
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: nanning on September 18, 2019, 04:54:38 AM
Thanks ShortBrutishNasty.

I have full respect for and want to wish strength to the heroic participating young people without parental permission.
They will be disciplined while the others will not. Very unfair imo!
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: SATire on September 18, 2019, 09:17:51 AM
I have full respect for and want to wish strength to the heroic participating young people without parental permission.
They will be disciplined while the others will not. Very unfair imo!
If you would have a daugther of that age you could know: Those uncooperative parents are going to face some serious activism at home soon. Gretas' superpower turns the kids into Teenage-Mutant-Ninja-Veggies disciplining their nasty parents until they abstain from air planes, SUV and beef and find themselfs on the streets on Fridays, too  8)
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: be cause on September 18, 2019, 09:57:44 AM
I guess those children could then be accused (by some) of being their parent's 'handlers' ? .. pc b.c.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: blumenkraft on September 18, 2019, 12:48:53 PM
LOL
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Tom_Mazanec on September 18, 2019, 01:54:14 PM
Wouldn’t it be great if Greta were a poster here?
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Alexander555 on September 18, 2019, 02:13:46 PM
You know what is strange. That Greta makes me smile in the same way Trump does. And i hope i don't offend Greta, because they are different. But deep inside, they both make me smile a little. Some kind of nasty smile
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: blumenkraft on September 18, 2019, 04:31:01 PM
OMG 🤦
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: nanning on September 18, 2019, 05:03:43 PM
Greta and I share another very important characteristic I think: We ignore group behaviour.

I can't really describe how that one characteristic makes such a big difference to you as a person. Observations and experience.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: blumenkraft on September 18, 2019, 05:46:47 PM
Wouldn’t it be great if Greta were a poster here?

Imagine she would read SS-Alexanders comment. We have a word for that in German: "Fremdschämen". It describes the feeling when you are ashamed for the pathetic actions/statement of others.

We ignore group behaviour.

I know, but i would still feel this shame.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: nanning on September 18, 2019, 05:59:49 PM
In Dutch it is called "plaatsvervangende schaamte".

I don't have that shame but understand what you mean. But Greta is probably used to those utterings and can differentiate ;D.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: blumenkraft on September 18, 2019, 06:05:38 PM
You got to love Dutch. It's the cutest language. :)
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Tom_Mazanec on September 18, 2019, 06:43:49 PM
And I missed speaking Dutch by one branch on the language tree!
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Tom_Mazanec on September 18, 2019, 08:10:36 PM
Climate activist Greta Thunberg used her superpower of shaming adults on Senate Democrats
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/9/17/20870760/greta-thunberg-climate-change-youth-strike-senate-democrats
Quote
“Please save your praise, we don’t want it,” said Thunberg, the 16-year-old Swede who has become the most recognizable and influential face of the youth climate movement. “Don’t invite us here to tell us how inspiring we are without doing anything about it. We don’t want to be invited to these kinds of meetings because, honestly, they don’t lead to anything.”
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: MyACIsDying on September 19, 2019, 05:59:16 PM
rboyd referred to the manufacturing of consent earlier, I'm guessing based on this article:
https://www.globalresearch.ca/saving-the-earth-or-saving-capitalism-the-inconvenient-truth-behind-todays-youth-climate-campaigns/5667343

I read the entire 5 acts of Cory Morningstars report and can see the point made quite clearly:
Greta is promoted by NGO's, run by the rich and promoting capitalist solutions (Green New Deal..)
I'm quite sure she wouldn't have become a superstar if it wasn't for their promotion.

Are those promoting NGO's handlers? Not really.. just opportunists I think.

But now the problem. Climate change is real, abrupt change even worse. We do need to take action, and most of what Greta says is good and in that line. However, the funding, the support of capitalist solutions is indeed not very helpful and I guess this is what Franzen was referring to in his piece.

Then there's the drive towards declaring an emergency. Earlier I caught up with Stephen West's Philosophize This podcast on Carl Schmitt... his main point being how liberal democracy will cause general apathy, make people sitting ducks for fascist takeovers, and requiring the government to upend the constitution by declaring emergencies whenever they need to action on  swift changes, essentially making it a dictatorship whenever needed in the end anyway.

I can well imagine that as the first part of Schmitt's theory is coming to fruition, the need for such emergency take-over becomes all the more pressing lest thing go out of control politically. Is Greta being used here?

To be clear: BAU is going to be deadly for sure, change needs to happen, but if our only leaders are $ & establishment approved spokespeople, is that right?
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Sigmetnow on September 19, 2019, 07:30:05 PM
Greta Thunberg is not alone
As she tours Washington, Thunberg proves she isn’t a lone voice but a messenger for a growing movement.
Quote
Across the Atlantic, the diminutive but powerful teenager has used her skills of shaming adults to secure commitments from leaders in Britain, Germany, and the EU to accelerate efforts to decarbonize their countries. As part of her efforts to do the same in the US, she and other youth activists from groups including Zero Hour and the Global Alliance of Territorial Communities met with House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) on Wednesday and presented a set of demands, including a call to support a Green New Deal. Youth climate activists also met with Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer (D-NY).

“[Pelosi] was really very, very supportive of what we were asking her to do,” Zero Hour activist Anaiah Thomas. “Sometimes you feel like when you’re talking to politicians you feel like they don’t hear you, but the Speaker listened to us, she gave us time to respond.”

A Pelosi spokesman told Vox the speaker’s meeting with activists was lengthy and ran over the allotted time, as she wanted to hear from each of the 25 or so activists there.
...
While Thunberg met with former President Barack Obama, she did not meet with President Donald Trump, who is a climate denier, or other Republican leaders. Instead, Thunberg and others protested outside the White House. ...
https://www.vox.com/2019/9/19/20873043/greta-thunberg-climate-activism-washington-sunrise

Wonder if Fox News covered the protest.  That’s probably the only way Trump would happen to see it.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: TerryM on September 19, 2019, 11:14:36 PM
Greta isn't trying to influence an American Presidential Election is she?
Don't tell the Feds or she could be sharing a cell with Ms. Butina! ;D


I'm sure her "handlers" have all the necessary lobbying certifications in place, but her henchman's Pro-Pelosi screed may well have upset both Republicans & Progressive Democrats. A comforting embrace by "Uncle Creepy" Joe Biden may be the price she'll have to pay. :P


Will she escape through our "Porous Southern Border" TM, or will she be held in one of The Trumpster's "Children's Detention Camps", where Republicans demonstrate that they are capable of raising children in an almost carbon neutral environment simply by locking them up and ignoring their cries when heating and cooling are not provided.


Foreigners holding protest movements outside the White House are sometimes dealt with rather harshly. Perhaps her cherubic good looks will protect her from those whose livelihood is derived from protecting the POTUS from enemies both foreign and domestic.
Terry ::)
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Florifulgurator on September 20, 2019, 02:54:35 AM
Greta Thunberg is not alone
As she tours Washington, Thunberg proves she isn’t a lone voice but a messenger for a growing movement.
Quote
...
Yeah. One of those impressively serious local kids was first mistaken for Greta's handler when she landed in New York :)
14-yr old Alexandria Villasenor


In the Congressional hearing she was with other great youth growing old over the climate catastrophe. The following complete video of that is seriously mistitled:
https://youtu.be/icKlNgLuqzU

It is tempting to suggest a poll:
 Who of those kids looks most "handled" to you?
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: ShortBrutishNasty on September 20, 2019, 07:15:44 PM
Another Guardian-produced 4-minute vid uploaded yesterday featuring Greta and George Monbiot:

Our house is on fire.  Are we getting any traction?  How's that School Strike today going??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Q0xUXo2zEY
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: ShortBrutishNasty on September 20, 2019, 09:43:04 PM
Is this irony?

Poor kids in the Houston Independent School District were unable to participate in Greta's School Strike for Climate today (Sept 20) because of Imelda.  Maybe next Friday??

https://www.khou.com/article/news/local/hisd-responds-to-criticism-for-not-closing-schools/285-8c372f4e-e968-458a-ad0f-e5fb21228dbd
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: TerryM on September 20, 2019, 10:16:50 PM
Is this irony?

Poor kids in the Houston Independent School District were unable to participate in Greta's School Strike for Climate today (Sept 20) because of Imelda.  Maybe next Friday??

https://www.khou.com/article/news/local/hisd-responds-to-criticism-for-not-closing-schools/285-8c372f4e-e968-458a-ad0f-e5fb21228dbd (https://www.khou.com/article/news/local/hisd-responds-to-criticism-for-not-closing-schools/285-8c372f4e-e968-458a-ad0f-e5fb21228dbd)
At the very least the schools could have remained open for those that were protesting with their absence. :o
Terry
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Tom_Mazanec on September 20, 2019, 11:49:16 PM
Students are fighting climate change, one TikTok video at a time
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-09-19/tiktok-youth-led-climate-activism-school-strike/11520474
Quote
TikTok is popular because, for now, it requires a form of insider knowledge to understand. Dr Abidin calls it "silo social".

And that helps if you're trying to convince a very specific under-18 audience to get involved in environmental advocacy.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Tom_Mazanec on September 20, 2019, 11:58:25 PM
Greta Thunberg Can't Stop Roasting Congress
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/kz43aw/greta-thunberg-cant-stop-roasting-congress
Quote
“Just another perspective — I’m from Sweden. It’s a small country. And there, it is the same argument: ‘Why should we do anything? Just look at the U.S.,’ they say,” Thunberg said quietly, to laughs and applause. “So, just so you know, that is being used against you as well.”

and
Greta Thunberg to U.S. Congress on climate change: 'Wake up'
http://news.trust.org/item/20190918153244-4a87i/
Quote
She began with a pointed message before a U.S. congressional hearing: "I don't want you to listen to me. I want you to listen to the scientists."
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Sigmetnow on September 21, 2019, 04:47:48 PM
Conor O'Neill (@conoraon) 9/20/19, 10:58 AM
The scale of what @GretaThunberg is achieving is genuinely incredible. This is her, sat alone outside the Swedish Parliament, Aug 2018 - the first school strike. Today she's spearheading a #ClimateStrike of millions of people, across 7 continents & 150+ countries. At 16. Legend!
https://twitter.com/conoraon/status/1175061653899096073
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Sigmetnow on September 21, 2019, 10:17:53 PM
Why is Greta Thunberg so triggering for certain men?
Quote
This shouldn’t need to be spelled out, but as some people don’t seem to have grasped it yet, we’ll give it a lash: Thunberg’s trip was an act of protest, not a sacred commandment or an instruction manual for the rest of us. Like all acts of protest, it was designed to be symbolic and provocative. For those who missed the point – and oh, how they missed the point – she retweeted someone else’s “friendly reminder” that: “You don’t need to spend two weeks on a boat to do your part to avert our climate emergency. You just need to do everything you can, with everyone you can, to change everything you can.”
https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/why-is-greta-thunberg-so-triggering-for-certain-men-1.4002264
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Alexander555 on September 21, 2019, 10:19:55 PM
Did it started like that ? With her only.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: SATire on September 21, 2019, 11:26:54 PM
Did it started like that ? With her only.
yes
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: SATire on September 23, 2019, 05:54:42 PM
https://www.bild.de/video/clip/greta-thunberg/gretas-brandrede-vor-der-un-reuters-64891876.bild.html
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: blumenkraft on September 23, 2019, 06:23:10 PM
Bild.de? SATire how dare you?? :P
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Florifulgurator on September 23, 2019, 07:11:07 PM
Bild.de? SATire how dare you?? :P
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: SATire on September 23, 2019, 07:13:08 PM
The times, they are changing...
Bild Features Gretas' emotional speach.

Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Florifulgurator on September 23, 2019, 07:13:58 PM
The times, they are changing...
Nope. Not in Germany. We now have the Klimapillepallekanzlerin Angela Merkel. (I haven't followed the Bild reporting on Greta and friends. Looks like this toilet paper had its best days. Who needs Bild when you have the Internets.)
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: nanning on September 23, 2019, 07:27:28 PM
Copied from the ASLR thread:
While I concur with Thunberg's statement to the U.N., I am concerned that young people still have a way to go (a ways to go) before they fully understand the extent of betrayal of coming generations by current (& past) global decision makers:

Title: "Greta Thunberg to world leaders: "You are failing us" on climate change"

https://www.axios.com/climate-change-greta-thunberg-speech-un-873a3fd2-6288-4a89-9320-1e3cedb4566f.html

Extract: "Thunberg, who is usually not especially emotive when she talks, was uniquely emotional in this speech, notably tearing up and showing anger. "You are failing us, but the young people are starting to understand your betrayal," Thunberg said.

•   "We will not let you get away with this.""

This brought tears to my eyes. Strongly recommended. Her emotions are real.

"BREAKING: Greta Thunberg delivers impassioned plea to world leaders at the Climate Summit during the United Nations General Assembly." (4m31)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGVShq47C4o
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Florifulgurator on September 23, 2019, 08:01:52 PM
Wow.

Looks like she has grown quite a bit in several respects since last year. (But me no expert. Never had much opportunity to watch a girl grow up - and this is quite a special specimen :) )

--------------
P.S.:
Wow again. This look that says just one thing, "assholes!". No longer the little girl from Katowice.

--------------
P.P.S.: Dr. h.c. Mars J.P. Florifulgurator sees considerable work of brain plasticity. Stuff like Asperger's can be worked out if the brain is offered some f-in opportunity of work-out. Too often grown-ups all around mess that up. Luckily Greta had two weeks on the Atlantic. Time, Space & Brainlard are relative.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Florifulgurator on September 23, 2019, 10:27:36 PM
Greta sees the big ape in the zoo...
https://youtu.be/zmXOPrCr_F4
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: be cause on September 23, 2019, 11:23:36 PM
A line I wrote in 1979 ..

  '' we reap our vengeance
On the off-spring we no longer know or care
Daring them to argue with our false philosophy '' .

It feels like the tables have begun turning .

I love you Greta  :) .. b.c.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: ShortBrutishNasty on September 23, 2019, 11:58:44 PM
Wow. 

While Greta let it hang out at the UN, the DC folks got into the action, too.

Color me surprised.

Let's see how long this plays out....

https://www.strikedc.org/

and

https://wtop.com/local/2019/09/shut-down-dc-climate-change-protest-could-disrupt-monday-morning-commute/
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: sidd on September 24, 2019, 07:02:07 AM
America's Finest News Source: USA perplexed by teen's distaste for apocalypse

"they were perplexed by Swedish climate activist Greta Thunberg, a 16-year-old who apparently has no desire to see the world end. "

"confusion reportedly shared by millions of Americans who recalled that during their own adolescence they had hated the world and everyone in it and had felt the end couldn’t come fast enough. "

https://www.theonion.com/nation-perplexed-by-16-year-old-who-doesn-t-want-world-1838374925

That cuts to the quick. I wonder how many people in the USA  wish for apocalypse because it's better that what they got.

sidd
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Pmt111500 on September 24, 2019, 12:25:14 PM
Knowing there are people who dislike Greta in Trumpistan, she'd do well to have bodyguards and some support from the intelligence community during her visit to the state.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: wili on September 24, 2019, 01:03:08 PM
And who's going to protect her from the 'intelligence community'?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/sep/23/revealed-how-the-fbi-targeted-environmental-activists-in-domestic-terror-investigations
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Pmt111500 on September 24, 2019, 01:58:24 PM
And who's going to protect her from the 'intelligence community'?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/sep/23/revealed-how-the-fbi-targeted-environmental-activists-in-domestic-terror-investigations

Yes, there might be a little problem
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Sigmetnow on September 24, 2019, 05:49:16 PM
Greta Thunberg Evil-Eyeing Trump At UN Summit Is The Internet’s Hottest New GIF
If looks could kill, we’d be looking for a new president right now.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/greta-thunberg-donald-trump-un-climate-summit-stare_n_5d8947bce4b0d26946530b3b
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: gerontocrat on September 24, 2019, 07:23:33 PM
America's Finest News Source: USA perplexed by teen's distaste for apocalypse

"they were perplexed by Swedish climate activist Greta Thunberg, a 16-year-old who apparently has no desire to see the world end. "

"confusion reportedly shared by millions of Americans who recalled that during their own adolescence they had hated the world and everyone in it and had felt the end couldn’t come fast enough. "

https://www.theonion.com/nation-perplexed-by-16-year-old-who-doesn-t-want-world-1838374925

That cuts to the quick. I wonder how many people in the USA  wish for apocalypse because it's better that what they got.

sidd
they had hated the world and everyone in it and had felt the end couldn’t come fast enough.

I thought I was in my 2nd childhood - and now I know I have been a stroppy teenager all my life.

And I've just proved it, making this thread all about me, me, me
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Tom_Mazanec on September 24, 2019, 08:32:39 PM
“Listen to the Kids”: Millions Turn Out for Global Climate Strike
https://therevelator.org/climate-strike-photos/
Quote
In August 2018 Swedish teenager Greta Thunberg stood alone outside the Swedish parliament with a sign that said “Skolstrejk för klimatet.” On Friday 4 million people across the world joined her and walked out of their schools, jobs and homes and into the streets for a global Climate Strike.

New York, which hosted Thunberg, saw an estimated 250,000 show up. “If you belong to that small group of people who feel threatened by us, we have some very bad news for you, because this is only the beginning,” Thunberg told the crowd.

'We See Your Greed': Global Climate Strike Draws Millions Demanding Action
https://insideclimatenews.org/news/20092019/we-see-your-greed-global-climate-strike-draws-millions-young-people-demanding-action
Quote
Millions of young people took to the world's cities Friday, flooding streets, blocking traffic and skipping school to take part in what is believed to be the biggest global climate protest in history.

The Youth Climate Strike drew potentially record crowds in several cities. In Australia, nearly 200,000 people protested in Melbourne and Sydney. Hundreds of thousands more—in Islamabad, Nairobi, Berlin, London, La Paz, New York, and as many as 1,500 other cities on every continent—joined in a global plea for elected leaders and governments to take action on the climate crisis.

Greta Thunberg’s speech on climate change: ‘How dare you?’
https://www.al.com/news/2019/09/greta-thunbergs-speech-on-climate-change-how-dare-you.html
Quote
"This is all wrong," said Thunberg, who was visibly emotional as she spoke on a panel at a U.N. climate summit Monday. With tears in her eyes and her face flushed, the 16-year-old activist - who began skipping school in her native Sweden a year ago to protest inaction on climate change - chastised the world leaders who had gathered in New York.

Why Greta Makes Adults Uncomfortable
https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2019/09/why-greta-wins/598612/
Quote
Last week I had the chance to meet the girl behind the image. She is, thankfully, still a person. And she is even more than that: She’s a teenager.

In fact, I think her extreme teenager-ness may be key to her influence. 
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Sigmetnow on September 25, 2019, 02:01:45 AM
Quote
George Takei (@GeorgeTakei) 9/24/19, 3:08 PM
Trump tweeted, with his usual sneering nastiness, that Greta Thunberg seems like "a very happy young girl looking forward to a bright and wonderful future." So she changed her Twitter profile to this.

I am, as the kids say, "deceased" over this.
https://twitter.com/georgetakei/status/1176574146358255624
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Tom_Mazanec on September 25, 2019, 06:16:28 PM
You know the people who really impress me? The adults who take off work and sacrifice eight hours wages for this cause, even more than the ones who are kids who get permission slips from their parents.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: etienne on September 25, 2019, 08:45:06 PM
You know the people who really impress me? The adults who take off work and sacrifice eight hours wages for this cause, even more than the ones who are kids who get permission slips from their parents.
Well, I have enough overtime to get from time to time a free afternoon without having to go on the holidays account.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: sidd on September 26, 2019, 12:32:23 AM
America's Finest News Source: Democrats sympathize with Thunberg

“Yet again, we have seen the cruel and vindictive nature of a president who thinks it’s acceptable to hurl schoolyard taunts at this wonderful young woman instead of acting very interested in what she has to say and then doing nothing whatsoever about it,”

"the next time you want to speak to leaders who could benefit from being associated with climate activism, the Democratic party is here for you as long as the cameras are rolling and not a second longer."

https://politics.theonion.com/democrats-criticize-trump-for-attacking-greta-thunberg-1838410351

sidd
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: TerryM on September 26, 2019, 01:07:34 AM
^^
They'll even smile during the obligatory photo op. :)
Terry
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Sigmetnow on September 26, 2019, 09:05:12 PM
 ;D Spot on! ;D

"Children acting like adults can make adults act like children..."
Quote
Mark Humphries (@markhumphries) 9/26/19, 7:10 AM
THE GRETA THUNBERG HELPLINE:
For adults angry at a child.
https://twitter.com/markhumphries/status/1177178666402365440
“Because when it comes to climate change, we all know she’s the real problem.”
2 minute video at the link.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: blumenkraft on September 26, 2019, 09:13:03 PM
That video is amazing. Thanks for sharing, Sigmetnow!
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: rboyd on September 28, 2019, 01:56:11 AM
Listen to the Children - Severn Cullis-Suzuki's famous speech on the environment (1992)

This is from 1992, a child's speech to the UN on the environment in Rio. Sounds a lot like Greta. The adults listened and then went off and made things much worse (apart from "fixing" the ozone hole).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=5&v=JGdS8ts63Ck (https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=5&v=JGdS8ts63Ck)
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: TerryM on September 28, 2019, 03:54:13 AM
^^
I'd been wondering if anyone remembered Suzuki's daughter lecturing the UN when she was 12 or so.
Made a few waves, but was pretty much forgotten by the time Greta reprised it.
Terry
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Juan C. García on September 28, 2019, 05:10:41 AM
Now that we are remembering children defending the environment, I am always impressed by this video, made especially for the Paris Agreement (a lot like Greta):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtQyg1l3p9g (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtQyg1l3p9g)

Going back on topic...
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: nanning on September 28, 2019, 06:37:53 AM
Thank you for sharing that Juan.
From the short video:

"Why not"?     "What are you afraid of"?        Some of the most difficult questions to answer for our 'leaders'.

Trying to answer these questions is going to give them a hell of a lot of stress and headscratching, because, they must think of themselves as 'sane'. But there are absolutely no sane answers to those questions.

Their brains hold strong contradicting believes.
Can cognitive dissonances grow so bad that they'll explode your head?

They have to come to the conclusion that they are 'not sane' at all, or keep on lying.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: nanning on September 28, 2019, 07:33:54 AM
A beautiful short compilation of Greta's actions:
Everytime I watch and hear her words and emotions, I get emotional myself. Holding back the tears.

(found in https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/sep/27/greta-thunberg-justin-trudeau-meeting-climate-strikes)

(2m05)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKTQW5i9_p8
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Florifulgurator on September 28, 2019, 02:22:39 PM
Greta a climate debate tipping point?

Former EPA administrator Gina McCarthy with Bill Maher:
https://youtu.be/NU0AzQemcYU
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: blumenkraft on September 28, 2019, 02:42:48 PM
Quote
Regina McCarthy (born May 3, 1954) is an American environmental health and air quality expert who served as the 13th Administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) from 2013 to 2017

...becoming the face of Obama's global warming and climate change initiative.

...

Link >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gina_McCarthy

But:

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c2/US_oil_exports.png)


Perhaps she should have done something about it while in office?

What is the purpose of these people now sitting in talkshows other than asking them why they did nothing?
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Florifulgurator on September 28, 2019, 02:44:39 PM
;D Spot on! ;D

"Children acting like adults can make adults act like children..."
Quote
Mark Humphries (@markhumphries) 9/26/19, 7:10 AM
THE GRETA THUNBERG HELPLINE:
For adults angry at a child.
https://twitter.com/markhumphries/status/1177178666402365440
“Because when it comes to climate change, we all know she’s the real problem.”
2 minute video at the link.

Yeah. I said it some time ago.
That's why there's some hope that Gina McCarthy is right about the climate debate tipping point: Greta is a wonderful tool to sort out the fools and psychopaths.

It's my theory (*) that Homo S Sapiens is undergoing a cultural evolutionary split into Homo Sapiens Erectus and Homo Sapiens Trumpensis. Perhaps Greta is a condensation nucleus in this evolutionary process.


Samatha Bee on Greta the scarecrow of grownups:
https://youtu.be/75UUiYUx1Fo
"And if you ever forgive us for failing you, I'll never forgive you."


----------------------------------
(*) Apropos "spot on" (2:12 ff.)
https://youtu.be/Xs7r5xfucPs
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: nanning on September 29, 2019, 08:47:27 AM
Since this beautiful Guardian video is about young people, I put it here.

(3m09)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InjnRLYgzq8
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: oren on September 29, 2019, 09:50:03 AM
Quote
Greta a climate debate tipping point?
I have never seen so many articles on climate change and associated topics, as I see now. She has certainly tipped the scales. Will it help? I certainly hope so, though the old and greedy people's inertia is very strong.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: etienne on September 29, 2019, 10:43:19 AM
Quote
Greta a climate debate tipping point?
I have never seen so many articles on climate change and associated topics, as I see now. She has certainly tipped the scales. Will it help? I certainly hope so, though the old and greedy people's inertia is very strong.
I'm worried that it might only support greenBAU, excepted if people would really start to reduce their consumption, but I don't feel that many people get the point.

"If you don't know how to fix it, please stop breaking it." That's from Severn Cullis Suzuki, 12 years old at the Earth Summit, 1992 in Rio. Thanks to Terry for giving the info.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: rboyd on September 29, 2019, 09:12:46 PM
Quote
Greta a climate debate tipping point?
I have never seen so many articles on climate change and associated topics, as I see now. She has certainly tipped the scales. Will it help? I certainly hope so, though the old and greedy people's inertia is very strong.
I'm worried that it might only support greenBAU, excepted if people would really start to reduce their consumption, but I don't feel that many people get the point.

"If you don't know how to fix it, please stop breaking it." That's from Severn Cullis Suzuki, 12 years old at the Earth Summit, 1992 in Rio. Thanks to Terry for giving the info.

I think that you have a very good point. GreenBAU can also include massive geo-engineering such as Solar Radiation Management, and massive industrial scale efforts to "recycle" emitted carbon dioxide - all good profitable opportunities. "Saving the Planet" can take many forms. This is the worry that I have about Extinction Rebellion, they end up supplying the overlying narrative for further industrializing the planet rather than propose solutions. "Just fix it" may be ambiguous enough for a "big tent" movement, but can then be used by economic elites for their own beneficial (and incredibly risky) answers. Anything but actually reducing elite consumption and wealth.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Sigmetnow on September 30, 2019, 02:12:43 AM
Schwarzenegger arranged for Thunberg to have a Tesla Model 3 at her disposal as she made her way from the United States to a climate rally in Montreal, ensuring that she could get around in as environmentally friendly a way as possible.

Arnold Schwarzenegger Sent Greta Thunberg an Electric Car
https://www.menshealth.com/entertainment/amp29279061/arnold-schwarzenegger-greta-thunberg-tesla/
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: rboyd on September 30, 2019, 04:44:05 AM
A Yacht built for a Rothschild and now earned by the Grimaldi family dynasty (the Grimaldis that have ruled Monaco since the 14th century and are worth about $1 billion), a Tesla from Schwarzenegger (worth about $400 million), Greta is certainly blessed with elite connections. Pure hypocrisy for the elites, given their massive personal consumption and wealth all dependent on fossil fuels. No real change comes from such elite supported "revolutionaries".
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: bluice on September 30, 2019, 06:06:28 AM
A Yacht built for a Rothschild and now earned by the Grimaldi family dynasty (the Grimaldis that have ruled Monaco since the 14th century and are worth about $1 billion), a Tesla from Schwarzenegger (worth about $400 million), Greta is certainly blessed with elite connections. Pure hypocrisy for the elites, given their massive personal consumption and wealth all dependent on fossil fuels. No real change comes from such elite supported "revolutionaries".
The optimist in me likes to think these rich and powerful folks want to jump Greta’s bandwagon because they like her message and they see her as a potential catalyst for change.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: nanning on September 30, 2019, 06:49:56 AM
Good old Arnold isn't such a bad guy I think. A bit smarter than the rest but he is caught in the groupbehaviour of the very rich and powerful and addicted to being affluent. Is he honest? Difficult to see.
I liked this interview from 28 may:
(16m05)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkOdMRUQkN8
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: rboyd on September 30, 2019, 07:19:01 AM
A Yacht built for a Rothschild and now earned by the Grimaldi family dynasty (the Grimaldis that have ruled Monaco since the 14th century and are worth about $1 billion), a Tesla from Schwarzenegger (worth about $400 million), Greta is certainly blessed with elite connections. Pure hypocrisy for the elites, given their massive personal consumption and wealth all dependent on fossil fuels. No real change comes from such elite supported "revolutionaries".
The optimist in me likes to think these rich and powerful folks want to jump Greta’s bandwagon because they like her message and they see her as a potential catalyst for change.

Greta is in a feel good video pushing "natural climate solutions" which is really the "natural capital solutions" with a more cuddly name - i.e. the privatization of nature and the failed REDD (polluters buy carbon offsets rather than actually cut emissions, usually on highly questionable sequestration claims) on steroids in the name of ecosystem services to be implemented at the upcoming 2020 UN conference on Biodiversity.

This is the "Extinction Revolution"?, you (and Greta unfortunately) are being played by the elites. Its the classic redirection of popular energy into meaningless avenues, or even into ones that benefit those elites. Lots of money to be made in ecosystem services, and lots of opportunities for the greenwashing of big polluters. Also, lots of possibilities for throwing poor people of their lands in the name of "saving forests" and conservation.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/sep/19/greta-thunberg-we-are-ignoring-natural-climate-solutions (https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/sep/19/greta-thunberg-we-are-ignoring-natural-climate-solutions)

Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: nanning on September 30, 2019, 08:32:21 AM
^^
Nice short video, together with George Monbiot, whom I trust.

In my view, they don't lauch the solution (planting trees) but the first step; a path to a solution. Planting trees means going outside and meeting other people. Outside in the fields sharing the work and cooperating, getting 'dirty'. This has an enormous potential for social reconnection and shared wisdom and knowledge. To go outside of your groups, your 'comfortzone'. To meet people different from you and unite. When that happens, the chance to get meaningful change increases considerably.

Because of my observations of current civilisation, I doubt that humans still have the ability to reconnect, to unite. There seems to be in general no survival instinct, no mother instinct, strong egocentric behaviour and very low morality and empathy. I wish I were wrong.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: sidd on September 30, 2019, 09:21:28 AM
"Planting trees means going outside and meeting other people. Outside in the fields sharing the work and cooperating, getting 'dirty'. This has an enormous potential for social reconnection and shared wisdom and knowledge. "

Absolutely. I have planted thousands of threes in my life, many in cooperation with my neighbours, but many with people i met then for the first time. In all kindsa weather and from all walks of life. Amazing what you learn.

Just go out and talk to your neighbours is a good start. Research your local terrain, judge what is to come, and plant a tree or a hundred with your neighbours. Some of them might be, (gasp!) Trump supporters. And who knows, (heaven forfend) you might like some.

There are local restoration groups all over the place. Work with them, If there isn't one in your neighbourhood, start one. Put your signs up with the local "Lost Cats" and "Yard Sale" signs. Allah willing, you might make a friend or a dozen, find a lost cat or three. And plant a buncha trees or a rain garden or a windbreak.

sidd

Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: SteveMDFP on September 30, 2019, 02:32:34 PM
  No real change comes from such elite supported "revolutionaries".

I don't think that what history tells us.  It's been common for individuals who are catalysts for social change to often often had wealthy patrons.  Marx was supported by Engels.  Gandhi had wealthy patrons.  Buddha and his followers had wealthy patrons.  The Peasant's Revolt in England had members of the aristocracy involved.

To be sure, no such individuals who catalyzed change were supported by the powerful classes as a whole.  But there are enlightened, selfless individuals among all classes of society.  We shouldn't pigeon-hole all poor individuals as the being the same, neither should be pigeon-hole the wealthy.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: nanning on September 30, 2019, 05:37:42 PM
<snip>
We shouldn't pigeon-hole all poor individuals as the being the same, neither should be pigeon-hole the wealthy.

I agree, but there is this thing about personal responsibility. The part of the wealthy that has consumerist behaviour. In reality all the wealthy are not sharing and they have on average bad behaviour concerning the climate- and biocollapse- crises.
Cognitive dissonance, is that OK? Shame? Guilt? What do you think?

Edit: By wealthy I mean very rich. The worldview of the rich people changes the higher they get on the hierarchy ladder. Picking up supremacy on the way up. Wanting to belong to the 'better' and 'higher' groups.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Sigmetnow on September 30, 2019, 05:55:44 PM
• We need new, clean, more-energy-efficient tech to replace the dirty, inefficient fossil fuel tech we grew up on.
• New tech is more expensive than old tech.
• Someone has to pay more for the first new products, until its usefulness is proven, mass production catches up and prices become more affordable.
• Disparaging the “rich” and the “elite” for helping make new clean tech financially viable for the companies — which will eventually lead to mass production with lower costs, making the new clean tech affordable for the non-rich — is hypocritical.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: nanning on September 30, 2019, 06:34:06 PM
<snip>
• New tech is more expensive than old tech.

Let's go to old tech then. Tech from before FF. Emissions problem solved. I'm serious :) .
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Tom_Mazanec on September 30, 2019, 06:37:28 PM
<snip>
• New tech is more expensive than old tech.

Let's go to old tech then. Tech from before FF. Emissions problem solved. I'm serious :) .

Of course the world population was about 10% of the present value then.
Want to bet you will be one of the surviving 10%?
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: SteveMDFP on September 30, 2019, 07:33:29 PM
<snip>
We shouldn't pigeon-hole all poor individuals as the being the same, neither should be pigeon-hole the wealthy.

I agree, but there is this thing about personal responsibility. The part of the wealthy that has consumerist behaviour. In reality all the wealthy are not sharing and they have on average bad behaviour concerning the climate- and biocollapse- crises.
Cognitive dissonance, is that OK? Shame? Guilt? What do you think?

Edit: By wealthy I mean very rich. The worldview of the rich people changes the higher they get on the hierarchy ladder. Picking up supremacy on the way up. Wanting to belong to the 'better' and 'higher' groups.

What poor person doesn't want to be less poor?  What middle class person doesn't want to be upper-middle class?  It's like that all the way up and down the spectrum.

I've lived among the Ivy League set and the homeless.  They're more alike than different, in many respects.  They certainly share an ignorance of and disdain for people at the opposite end of the socio-economic spectrum.

I think individuals who amass wealth approach the task much as a video game addict approaches reaching the next level on Call of Duty.  Having this kind of demanding focus doesn't tell you much about what they're like like when they're not playing their game.

I think individuals born into wealth are also diverse.  Do remember that the offspring of John D. Rockefeller divested from fossil fuels.  Being rich, even ungodly rich, does not imply a disregard for doing the right thing.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Sigmetnow on September 30, 2019, 09:47:38 PM
Protest.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: wili on September 30, 2019, 09:59:51 PM
Steve writes: "We shouldn't pigeon-hole all poor individuals as the being the same..."

But then immediately turns around and pigeon-holes every poor person as being the same: "What poor person doesn't want to be less poor? "

WTF?
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: SteveMDFP on September 30, 2019, 10:02:08 PM
Steve writes: "We shouldn't pigeon-hole all poor individuals as the being the same..."

But then immediately turns around and pigeon-holes every poor person as being the same: "What poor person doesn't want to be less poor? "

WTF?

The question isn't rhetorical, the answer is "most, not all."  Same for the other points on the socio-economic spectrum.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Sigmetnow on October 08, 2019, 02:25:14 AM
Quote
Eric Holthaus (@EricHolthaus) 10/7/19, 5:49 PM
One year ago, Greta Thunberg began a one-person school strike.
This week, she will likely win the Nobel Peace Prize.
Her message to world leaders is really a message to all of us: "Change is coming whether you like it or not."
smh.com.au/world/europe/g…
https://twitter.com/ericholthaus/status/1181325614315429888

Greta Thunberg credited with influencing outcome of Austrian election
Quote
Vienna: Two days after rallying 7 million protesters across the world by invoking the threat of climate change, Greta Thunberg was credited for motivating voters to redraw the political landscape in Austria.

After being frozen out of parliament just two years ago, the Alpine country's Greens unexpectedly tripled their support in Sunday's election to win 14 per cent of the vote, according to preliminary projections. The result sets up the group as a viable coalition partner for Sebastian Kurz's People's Party and shows how environmental concerns are moving to the top of the political agenda in Europe. ...
https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/greta-thunberg-effect-blamed-for-surprise-austrian-election-result-20190930-p52w86.html
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Sigmetnow on October 09, 2019, 02:50:16 AM
Greta Thunberg Heads to Standing Rock to Support Indigenous Activists
Quote
Thunberg arrived in the U.S. in August and has since toured the country and Canada. On Sunday, she joined Iron Eyes on a panel on the climate crisis hosted by the Lakota People’s Law Project at the Pine Ridge Reservation in South Dakota where Iron Eyes lives. Thunberg will be speaking on another panel Tuesday at Standing Rock in North Dakota, the site of a seminal 2016 protest over the Dakota Access Pipeline.

Welcoming a blue-eyed European to lands that many Native Americans in the region consider sacred is no little thing. These lands were pillaged and destroyed by people who looked like Thunberg, and there’s a long history of continued racism perpetrated on tribes by white Americans. Few white folks are received with such love and gratitude as what Thunberg has seen.
...
First of all, Thunberg is a child. And homegirl is out here doing more than plenty of adults in the climate space. She’s a kid willing to say whatever she wants to whomever she wants (such as calling out the elite at the World Economic Forum for their role in the climate crisis in January 2019). Thunberg can get away with such bold statements, in part, because she’s this seemingly innocent-looking, blue-eyed white girl. But the teen has been clear about using her privilege to provide support and allyship to her fellow youth of color who are not media darlings. ...
https://earther.gizmodo.com/greta-thunberg-heads-to-standing-rock-to-support-indige-1838873376
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Sigmetnow on October 09, 2019, 03:11:39 AM
Quote
Matthew (@TorbsTalks) 10/6/19, 8:17 AM
It has been brought to my attention that @FatboySlim has mixed @GretaThunberg’s speech into “right here, right now” and it’s incredible
https://twitter.com/torbstalks/status/1180819459382169600
95-second concert-audience video at the link.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Bruce Steele on October 09, 2019, 03:30:19 AM
Sig, I don’t know fat boy slim but that was quite the video !  A lot of angst though , careful with that.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: etienne on October 15, 2019, 08:48:42 PM
https://www.dn.se/nyheter/varlden/greta-thunberg-in-exclusive-interview-the-election-of-trump-was-a-turning-point-for-the-climate-movement/
Longer interview by Swedish newspaper
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Sigmetnow on October 30, 2019, 01:46:45 AM
Teen climate change activist Greta Thunberg was awarded the 2019 Nordic Council Environment Prize, but she won't be accepting it.

Thunberg said on Instagram on Tuesday that she received the award but declined to accept it because "the climate movement does not need any more awards."

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/29/world/greta-thunberg-nordic-award-decline-trnd/index.html
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Neven on October 30, 2019, 07:50:05 AM
That's the right spirit. I would have loved for her to reject the Nobel Peace Prize.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: blumenkraft on October 30, 2019, 06:22:45 PM
Genius reply!  :D
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: SATire on November 01, 2019, 07:47:41 PM
Since COP25 is moved from Chile to Madrid (Spain) Greta finds herself on the wrong side of the Atlantic and wants to sail back:

"As #COP25 has officially been moved from Santiago to Madrid I’ll need some help.
It turns out I’ve traveled half around the world, the wrong way:)
Now I need to find a way to cross the Atlantic in November... If anyone could help me find transport I would be so grateful.!

 https://twitter.com/GretaThunberg/status/1190290034131267591  (https://twitter.com/GretaThunberg/status/1190290034131267591)

Life is strange sometimes. But what an interesting and educational life she has. Good luck and some fun, Greta.

Edit - I am so wrong as she explained later in that tweet: "I’m so sorry I’ll not be able to visit South and Central America this time, I was so looking forward to this. But this is of course not about me, my experiences or where I wish to travel. We’re in a climate and ecological emergency.
I send my support to the people in Chile."

Just hope the storm season will not harm her.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: rboyd on November 06, 2019, 02:32:29 AM
I was working on a paper on climate change with the senior climate lawyer for a given country and they saw no issue with flying themselves and up to 20 others to climate meetings in places like Fiji etc. Stunning intentional ignorance. I bet they fly business class given the distance to be travelled.

Greta should just stay where she is and use Skype, during which she should lambast all the physical COP25 attendees as complete hypocrites (she could borrow a few points from Kevin Anderson). Of course she could have done that rather than take that billionaire's racing yacht across the Atlantic.

Or grab a ride on Air Force One if Trump is going to Europe and act pissed all the way across while sharing via twitter and instagram.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: be cause on November 06, 2019, 02:37:30 AM
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHh :)
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: oren on November 06, 2019, 07:50:47 AM
Greta should this and Greta should that. And yet she has 100 times the impact of other climate activists, so perhaps she is doing something right??
Ah yes I forgot, she is co-opted.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: KiwiGriff on November 06, 2019, 09:10:53 AM
Greta is having more impact than a few thousand political suits and overrated celebs going to yet another international wank feast where they talk for days and achieve nothing besides another thousand page toothless document of intent.

Greta has made us all take notice.

She has personally shifted the Overton window towards  doing something among hundreds of thousands of future voters . Many of the kids she has inspired will be voting towards action on AGW next election in your country as well as mine.

Greta takes AGW seriously and attempts to limit her carbon impact as much as humanly possible.
As such she has the right to fly, drive,sail  or whatever else she thinks she needs to do to achieve her goals .
Those that don't like it should get of their fat arses and achieve as much as she has .
Until they have they should shut the fuck up.

Excuse the swearing sometimes blunt truths need blunt language.

 
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: philopek on November 06, 2019, 09:27:34 PM


Excuse the swearing sometimes blunt truths need blunt language.

Or blunt brainwashed and wishful thinkers ignorance.

Where I agree is that anything that is shaking people out of their comfort zone is good and NOT bad but as to the rest, it's a hypocrite hype and in about ten years she will be remembered as a person with good intentions and trying her best but abused by a hypocrite system and eventually muted or worse.

She is totally ok but the hype and abuse of that child and into what it will be resulting is NOT.

Unfortunately this kind of thing, if not understood by the average people, can only be confirmed in the aftermath when it's way too late.

I don't expect that you would remember my or rboyds words, hence will get back to you once things have happened (or not happened in this case) just that it will look like being righteous, but so what.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: ShortBrutishNasty on November 08, 2019, 12:04:25 AM
Since we're exactly three weeks away from that most savage spectacle of raw American consumption, how about some shopping commentary? Maybe some words about makeup, clothing and fashion?

1. GQ dressed Greta up so nice for the October mag cover and interview (see pic below.)  I wonder how long it took her to rip off that petticoat afterwards?  How did she get punked like that?  The article ends with a big dose of hopium that we have "8 or 9 years left of BAU." 

https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/men-of-the-year/article/greta-thunberg-interview

2. Greta also made the cover of Glamour in October, but to their credit--you only saw Greta from the neck up--there wasn't a speck of makeup and you didn't see any of Greta's secondhand clothing.  Sadly and as expected, the accompanying lightweight article conveyed no sense of urgency.  Whose house is on fire?

https://www.glamour.com/story/women-of-the-year-2019-greta-thunberg

3. Upthread (#130, Sept 12th), Amy Goodman interviews Greta on Democracy Now.  At 17:02, Greta uses the term "stop-shop" twice and I don't think Goodman was prepared for that:  Greta does not buy new clothes.  So Goodman briefly paid lip service to the concept but quickly got the conversation steered back to Greta's veganism and how Greta travels around.

Let's go shopping!
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: etienne on November 10, 2019, 10:20:24 PM
Weird youth these days. They find so many things embarrassing. I don't know what to think about it, but a high school teacher told us that the teens she teaches said that they found embarrassing that Greta almost cried when speaking at the UN, and how she said "how dare you". In another context, we had a meeting with a teacher and my son was always hitting my wife under the table because he found embarrassing what she was saying. A third context, my sons find both embarrassing when I speak a little bit louder in a shop to call them to come or because I want to show them something.  Looks like we have a new generation that is scared not to behave according to standard models.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: kassy on November 11, 2019, 12:45:39 AM
Explain to them that you are just talking in upper caps at the shop.

The first one might also show that they are uncomfortable with emotions or talking about them in class. Last century that was also true but we never really spoke about those in class.


Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: etienne on November 11, 2019, 06:55:40 AM
I believe that as a teenager, I would have found that she had a lot of courage. Just like I would be happy that my parents would say the truth to a teacher. If this is seen as embarrassing, it probably means that they don't get support of peers when they try to get things right. One of the teachers really doesn't behave in an acceptable way, for example when one asks a stupid question, he could wonder if the teen's parents took drugs during pregnancy.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: nanning on November 11, 2019, 08:11:44 AM
Weird youth these days. They find so many things embarrassing. I don't know what to think about it, but a high school teacher told us that the teens she teaches said that they found embarrassing that Greta almost cried when speaking at the UN, and how she said "how dare you". In another context, we had a meeting with a teacher and my son was always hitting my wife under the table because he found embarrassing what she was saying. A third context, my sons find both embarrassing when I speak a little bit louder in a shop to call them to come or because I want to show them something.  Looks like we have a new generation that is scared not to behave according to standard models.

That's an interesting observation etienne :).

I think they are afraid of the outside, of the real world with real people because they have lived a far too abstract life through Internet & videogames & TV. Always inwards without real life contact. Almost no non-verbal communication skills.
I observe the same symptom when waiting at a busstop, I see teenagers trying not to look at each other and keep checking their smartphones. Uneasy, insecure and non-social. Addiction, dependence and fear. They only feel save and at ease when isolated from the outside world and inside their computer generated abstract worlds it seems to me.

Not all teenagers are like this (e.g. Greta Thunberg) but the majority is, I think. It would be good if they would join XR and make some real life meaningful contact outside of their groups/comfort-bubbles.

I looks to me that they also find it very difficult to look other people in the eye. Have you observed that in the young humans you parent?
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: etienne on November 11, 2019, 07:52:42 PM
I looks to me that they also find it very difficult to look other people in the eye. Have you observed that in the young humans you parent?
I have never observed this, but we live in an area where most parents only provided a lumited screen time at least to kids under 10 years old, and this was a great help for our parental work.

What I have observed is that their friends come and leave without saying hello or goodbye to us parents, even if they stayed overnight, but I never thought it could be because they feel insecure.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: blumenkraft on November 12, 2019, 05:09:56 PM
We are living in a world of change. Adults can't guide the kids through this. We don't know the internet, it's too new and ever-changing. It's a whole new cultural technique we have to learn as humanity as a whole. And then climate change. We know nothing. We can only assume.

The kids feel that. No fucking wonder they are insecure.

It's time to listen to the kids for once. Let's be insecure together.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: nanning on November 12, 2019, 06:33:49 PM
Thanks :).
(I mean insecure in the context of being deep inside an abstract world (social media, TV, games), alone, for a large amount of time at a (very) young age, and therefore a bit alien (insecure) to the general outside; to humans outside of  known groups. Very low non-verbal communication skills can make you insecure. By not being able to 'read' others.)
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: blumenkraft on November 12, 2019, 06:39:38 PM
I mean insecure in the context of being deep inside an abstract world (social media, TV, games)

Yes, me too. :)
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: etienne on November 12, 2019, 10:37:10 PM
Sometimes we also feel alone as adults. Feels like the game is over (climate change, limits of growth...) and the others keep playing, like my son who didn't understand that you can't continue a chess game when the king is lost. He clearly prefered the queen.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Sigmetnow on November 13, 2019, 01:13:12 AM
Quote
Greta Thunberg (@GretaThunberg) 11/12/19, 6:02 PM
So happy to say I'll hopefully make it to COP25 in Madrid.
I’ve been offered a ride from Virginia on the 48ft catamaran La Vagabonde. Australians @Sailing_LaVaga ,Elayna Carausu & @_NikkiHenderson from England will take me across the Atlantic.
We sail for Europe tomorrow morning!
https://twitter.com/gretathunberg/status/1194389911639642115
Photo at the link.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: rboyd on November 15, 2019, 11:24:20 PM
So, how did Riley Whitelum get the money to buy that catamaran that Greta is crossing the Atlantic on?

Quote
For 8 years, he worked on an offshore drill rig and on a barge offshore.

Quote
Spending a large section of my adult life working offshore on oil rigs and pipe-lay vessels taught me so many things that I don’t often think about.

So nice that he could fund his youtube yachting escapades through such hard work in the oil industry (and now advertising on his youtube channel which I am sure will now experience a massive increase in viewership). I am sure that there will be lots of time for him to share fun stories about his time in the oil industry with Greta.

https://www.famousbirthdays.com/people/riley-whitelum.html (https://www.famousbirthdays.com/people/riley-whitelum.html)

https://twitter.com/Sailing_LaVaga/status/937866905582555137 (https://twitter.com/Sailing_LaVaga/status/937866905582555137)
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Juan C. García on November 16, 2019, 01:20:46 AM
So nice that he could fund his youtube yachting escapades through such hard work in the oil industry
I also worked in the petroleum industry. And the truth is that I miss the pay!  :'(
I don't know about him, but in some cases, you need guts to leave that job.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Hefaistos on November 16, 2019, 12:53:00 PM
We are living in a world of change. Adults can't guide the kids through this. We don't know the internet, it's too new and ever-changing. It's a whole new cultural technique we have to learn as humanity as a whole. And then climate change. We know nothing. We can only assume.

The kids feel that. No fucking wonder they are insecure.

It's time to listen to the kids for once. Let's be insecure together.

No. It's time for parents to wake up and take the smartphones away from their kids.
Kids don't need smartphones.

They need a dumb phone so they can communicate with parents as needed. Yes, they may send sms's also.

Plus a strict limit on screentime. 40 minutes per day. After schoolwork is done.

That will give your kids back to you, among other positive effects.

Kids will scream at first and protest at your new regime, but they will accept it. And eventually they will enjoy being different.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: blumenkraft on November 16, 2019, 01:18:47 PM
No. It's time for parents to wake up and take the smartphones away from their kids.
Kids don't need smartphones.

Sure, if you think the internet is going away any time soon or that your kid doesn't need to learn basic cultural techniques needed to function in society, this is indeed the way to go.

Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: SATire on November 16, 2019, 02:55:16 PM
We are living in a world of change. Adults can't guide the kids through this. We don't know the internet, it's too new and ever-changing. It's a whole new cultural technique we have to learn as humanity as a whole. And then climate change. We know nothing. We can only assume.

The kids feel that. No fucking wonder they are insecure.

It's time to listen to the kids for once. Let's be insecure together.

No. It's time for parents to wake up and take the smartphones away from their kids.
Kids don't need smartphones.

They need a dumb phone so they can communicate with parents as needed. Yes, they may send sms's also.

Plus a strict limit on screentime. 40 minutes per day. After schoolwork is done.

That will give your kids back to you, among other positive effects.

Kids will scream at first and protest at your new regime, but they will accept it. And eventually they will enjoy being different.
OK, Boomer.
😁
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: blumenkraft on November 16, 2019, 03:05:08 PM
 ;D :D
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: nanning on November 16, 2019, 03:12:06 PM
 Those cultural techniques need to go I'm afraid. It is driven by immoral commerce in stead of rational high morality thinking. Do we want to steer our path into the future or not?  ???

I feel so much for our new humans  :'(, I recognize the deep lifelong damage our current culture does to them. Not just the cultural techniques. Parents in thrall of these techniques and addicted to technofixes will give their toddler a screen, which is a low morality action in my view.
Like other animals young humans need a form of 'natural unbringing' in order for their brainstructure, social systems, non verbal communication skills, emotional action/reaction/understanding, discipline, morality, physical skills, touch/smell capacity etc. to develop to a complete brain and human and without faults (I don't mean natural variation).
And all of this development has to take place in the real world. A world increasingly at a distance for our young ones because the grown-ups pull them in all kinds of abstract versions.

I observe that there is not much critical thinking going on. While there are many good articles on this (as seen in The Guardian).
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: blumenkraft on November 16, 2019, 03:33:35 PM
Those cultural techniques need to go I'm afraid.

Not going to happen.

Quote
It is driven by immoral commerce in stead of rational high morality thinking. Do we want to steer our path into the future or not?  ???

Well, it's driven by protocols on the technical level. The protocols are inherently neutral. It's about how we use them.

Since we are still in the early stages, there is no answer to how we elevate the positives and negate the negatives in effective ways but we will get there.

We have to figure out how to democratize and decentralize things for example. Technically not a problem, socially a discussion we have to have. Sticking your head into the sand never is a smart move.

Quote
I feel so much for our new humans  :'(, I recognize the deep lifelong damage our current culture does to them.

Yep, people talked about Rock'n Roll exactly like that. And everything new following that had similar arguments against it. And some say it was like that even before.

Quote
Not just the cultural techniques. Parents in thrall of these techniques and addicted to technofixes will give their toddler a screen, which is a low morality action in my view.

Teaching your kid how to read and write also? How about money? Would you prohibit kids from learning about those things? Where is the line?

Quote
And all of this development has to take place in the real world.

Computers are located in the real world. People you communicate with via computers are located in the real world. Also the content creators you see on YouTube, for example, are real humans.

So what do you mean 'has to be in the real world'?
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: TerryM on November 16, 2019, 09:23:19 PM
^^
Could you accept that with AI, it's often assumed that people you communicate with via computers MAY be in the real world?
Terry
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: rboyd on November 16, 2019, 09:49:46 PM
So nice that he could fund his youtube yachting escapades through such hard work in the oil industry
I also worked in the petroleum industry. And the truth is that I miss the pay!  :'(
I don't know about him, but in some cases, you need guts to leave that job.

I have no issue with Riley, power to him doing what many would dream of. Its the bullshit optics of the Greta phenomena I have a problem with. A billionaires yacht, happy pictures with DiCaprio and his town sized carbon footprint, and now an ex oil worker who took the good money to achieve a dream. We have to cut consumption in the rich countries by quite a lot (with much bigger cuts for the DiCaprios of this world) to have any chance of staying under 2 degrees.

Going across the Atlantic during the winter storm season in a relatively small boat is also not that clever a thing to do.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: rboyd on November 16, 2019, 10:15:45 PM
No. It's time for parents to wake up and take the smartphones away from their kids.
Kids don't need smartphones. They need a dumb phone so they can communicate with parents as needed. Yes, they may send sms's also. Plus a strict limit on screentime. 40 minutes per day. After schoolwork is done. That will give your kids back to you, among other positive effects. Kids will scream at first and protest at your new regime, but they will accept it. And eventually they will enjoy being different.
OK, Boomer.
😁

There is a ton of psychological research showing that, especially for girls, getting a smart phone and social media as a young child has a significant negative impact upon their mental health. Better that they get them later in their teens, so that they can have a sense of perspective. Also, a much longer attention span which is highly prized in higher academia and business.

All the tech executives tend to be raising their kids tech free.

Silicon Valley parents are raising their kids tech-free — and it should be a red flag

Quote
The Koduris' life is that of the quintessential Silicon Valley family, except for one thing. The technology developed by Koduri and Shahi's employers is all but banned at the family's home.

There are no video game systems inside the Koduri household, and neither child has their own cell phone yet. Saurav and Roshni can play games on their parents' phones, but only for 10 minutes per week. (There are no limits to using the family's vast library of board games.) Awhile back the family bought an iPad 2, but for the last five years it's lived on the highest shelf in a linen closet.

https://www.businessinsider.com/silicon-valley-parents-raising-their-kids-tech-free-red-flag-2018-2 (https://www.businessinsider.com/silicon-valley-parents-raising-their-kids-tech-free-red-flag-2018-2)

A Dark Consensus About Screens and Kids Begins to Emerge in Silicon Valley

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/26/style/phones-children-silicon-valley.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/26/style/phones-children-silicon-valley.html)

How Do Smartphones Affect Childhood Psychology?

https://psychcentral.com/lib/how-do-smartphones-affect-childhood-psychology/ (https://psychcentral.com/lib/how-do-smartphones-affect-childhood-psychology/)

Social Media Hurts Girls More Than Boys

https://time.com/5650266/social-media-girls-mental-health/ (https://time.com/5650266/social-media-girls-mental-health/)



So, maybe you should listen to that boomer instead of being a smartass.

Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Hefaistos on November 16, 2019, 11:18:41 PM
No. It's time for parents to wake up and take the smartphones away from their kids.
Kids don't need smartphones.

Sure, if you think the internet is going away any time soon or that your kid doesn't need to learn basic cultural techniques needed to function in society, this is indeed the way to go.

I want my kids to be with real people, not virtual representations of people.
When we are together, I want my kids to relate to me, and the rest of my family, and no-one or nothing else. I don't invite virtual representations of others into our family.
So, no smartphones until the teens.

Interestingly, schools in Sweden now have various degrees of bans on smartphones. Our eldest daughter is in a Waldorf school, where the ban is total. Smartphones are collected at the school gate in the morning and handed out after school.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Hefaistos on November 16, 2019, 11:24:49 PM
Those cultural techniques need to go I'm afraid. It is driven by immoral commerce in stead of rational high morality thinking. Do we want to steer our path into the future or not?  ???

I feel so much for our new humans  :'(, I recognize the deep lifelong damage our current culture does to them. Not just the cultural techniques. Parents in thrall of these techniques and addicted to technofixes will give their toddler a screen, which is a low morality action in my view.
Like other animals young humans need a form of 'natural unbringing' in order for their brainstructure, social systems, non verbal communication skills, emotional action/reaction/understanding, discipline, morality, physical skills, touch/smell capacity etc. to develop to a complete brain and human and without faults (I don't mean natural variation).
And all of this development has to take place in the real world. A world increasingly at a distance for our young ones because the grown-ups pull them in all kinds of abstract versions.

I observe that there is not much critical thinking going on. While there are many good articles on this (as seen in The Guardian).

Thanks, nanning.
I detest consumerism, and I try to fight the attitudes of a consumerist culture that seep into our kids' minds through all those screens.
"Do we want to steer our path into the future or not?"
Indeed.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: TerryM on November 17, 2019, 12:49:22 AM
I've no children, but it seems as though many could benefit from an environment where another kid might pop them whenever they got a little too adamant about demanding that they get their own way.


Bloody noses certainly taught me much about restraint and playing well with others.
Terry
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: blumenkraft on November 17, 2019, 06:26:26 AM
Our eldest daughter is in a Waldorf school

Say no more...  ::)

(This is not a virtual representation of me talking, this is actually me! I'm saying that because you might confuse a person with bits.)

Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: nanning on November 17, 2019, 07:59:51 AM
Greta Thunberg sparks surge in sailboat hitchhiking
Since climate campaigner’s transatlantic adventures, more people are looking to travel by sail

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/nov/15/greta-thunberg-sparks-surge-in-sailboat-hitchhiking
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: SATire on November 17, 2019, 11:18:31 AM
There is a ton of psychological research showing that, especially for girls, getting a smart phone and social media as a young child has a significant negative impact upon their mental health. Better that they get them later in their teens, so that they can have a sense of perspective. Also, a much longer attention span which is highly prized in higher academia and business.

All the tech executives tend to be raising their kids tech free.
It may be your choice to teach your children in Amish way or Steiner fashion or what else. But that is only your choice and shall not harm my children. A lot of things are very bad for children, if the dose is to high - TV, sugar, alcohol, religion, drugs, shopping, computers, SUV, telephones... but children if children do not have any experience with all of those, it is even worse. If teens today would consume in alcohol/ drugs what I did in the 80ies it would called insane. In my youth a heavy usage of a phone would have called insane. What is better?

And now back to topic: That most famous teen is sailing again :-)
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: nanning on November 17, 2019, 04:19:37 PM
Thanks rboyd, Hefaistos and Terry (I'm not sure what "pop them" means though). Here a nice non-non-verbal communication: :)
The digital version of non-verbal communication. A hollow version of the real thing.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: blumenkraft on November 17, 2019, 04:46:43 PM
the real thing.

For me, as an aspie, the real thing is unbearable.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: TerryM on November 17, 2019, 05:01:35 PM
pop = punch or hit. "A pop on the button." = "A punch in the nose."
CanAm slang from the 60's?


Apologize for not being clearer & much thanks for pointing it out. :)
Terry
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: KiwiGriff on November 17, 2019, 06:10:56 PM
For me, as an Aspie the internet negates the barriers that come with who I am.
 
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: blumenkraft on November 17, 2019, 06:22:10 PM
Well said, Griff!

½ of posts liked, 120/240 ... isn't that nice also? :)
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: KiwiGriff on November 17, 2019, 07:16:51 PM
It makes me feel my contribution is valued so yes it is nice.
120/0 One day I might even give as I receive.
As I have said  before on this thread.
The ratio of Aspies to Normies on this forum will be  larger than in the population at large.
Because as Greta says, superpowers ... :D 8)

“Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.” – Frank Zappa
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: kassy on November 17, 2019, 11:11:32 PM
re 278: It matters to her that she travels at zero emissions it does not matter that much how the guy got the boat. Probably anyone with a boat contributed somewhat more then the average person anyway.

Do we know what she actually discussed with DiCaprio? I hope she talked to him a bit about his lifestyle but probably not in public.

Her mission needs publicity so she also had to go to some photo shoots for those magazine covers and all kind of weird stuff she would likely rather not do. And she is probably learning stuff about the world that people her age usually don´t.
 
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: nanning on November 18, 2019, 04:46:48 AM
Thanks for that view kassy :).
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: nanning on November 18, 2019, 08:30:50 PM
<snip>
All the tech executives tend to be raising their kids tech free.

That is very significant and should make consumerist parents scratch their heads and change their ways.

Maybe interesting in this context:

"Apple's Tim Cook says he wouldn't let a child use social media"
https://www.smh.com.au/technology/apples-tim-cook-says-he-wouldnt-let-a-child-use-social-media-20180122-h0lzfd.html
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/jan/19/tim-cook-i-dont-want-my-nephew-on-a-social-network
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: SATire on November 19, 2019, 04:57:27 PM
<snip>
All the tech executives tend to be raising their kids tech free.

That is very significant and should make consumerist parents scratch their heads and change their ways.

Maybe interesting in this context:

"Apple's Tim Cook says he wouldn't let a child use social media"
May I ask why the suggestion to prohibit teens from using social networks is now such big a topic in this thread? Is this an attempt to hinder Greta's work? It should be obvious that without social networking there would be no Friday for Future and only a few locals in Stockholm would have noticed Greta's school strike. Her superpower was multiplied by social media. And FFF is build on the ability to communicate effective and international.

Thus this kind of critics by some "tech executives" is a bit strange. And I would like to discuss with them directly which kind of addiction they practiced when they were in the teens. And what is the purpose of their critics? Internet only for people with drivers license or for the people of age 50+? Or for whom?

And does "tech free" include television, cars, computers, any other electrical things or only communication? What is bad with communication? No communication would be worse.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: blumenkraft on November 19, 2019, 05:01:49 PM

120/0 One day I might even give as I receive.

I would advise you to better get this 120 likes given before you hit the 240 liked / 480 posts. ;)
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: nanning on November 19, 2019, 06:45:59 PM
<snip>
All the tech executives tend to be raising their kids tech free.

That is very significant and should make consumerist parents scratch their heads and change their ways.

Maybe interesting in this context:

"Apple's Tim Cook says he wouldn't let a child use social media"
May I ask why the suggestion to prohibit teens from using social networks is now such big a topic in this thread? Is this an attempt to hinder Greta's work? It should be obvious that without social networking there would be no Friday for Future and only a few locals in Stockholm would have noticed Greta's school strike. Her superpower was multiplied by social media. And FFF is build on the ability to communicate effective and international.
<snip>
What is bad with communication? No communication would be worse.

It is not a big topic, it is a slight digression from smartphones for youngsters.
I don't use social media but know these things. There a more ways to get information than check your e.g. facebook page.
Getting balanced and truthful information takes a lot of effort and critical thinking.

Yes, because of smartphones and 'social media' the movement got big fast. But the information from scientists is online. The young humans can find this and be scared for their future. Greta and 'social media' helped to massively communicate this. That doesn't mean that the communication medium is sound. It worked here in a good way but is harmful in general.

Don't you take Tim Cook serious?
Or the other big tech CEO's? Isn't that a big red flag?
Or all the articles that have been written about it?

Real communication is when I talk to you in real life with all non-verbal communication :)
Preferably in a human language that is efficient, unambiguous, equal, in reality, logical and complete. In order for humans to be able to communicate a complex thought to another human by spoken words through the air, to the ear of the other. But that is all theoretical optimilisation.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: KiwiGriff on November 19, 2019, 06:55:31 PM
There +1.
Happy now ?
 ;D
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: SATire on November 19, 2019, 07:06:58 PM
<snip>
All the tech executives tend to be raising their kids tech free.

That is very significant and should make consumerist parents scratch their heads and change their ways.

Maybe interesting in this context:

"Apple's Tim Cook says he wouldn't let a child use social media"
May I ask why the suggestion to prohibit teens from using social networks is now such big a topic in this thread? Is this an attempt to hinder Greta's work? It should be obvious that without social networking there would be no Friday for Future and only a few locals in Stockholm would have noticed Greta's school strike. Her superpower was multiplied by social media. And FFF is build on the ability to communicate effective and international.
<snip>
What is bad with communication? No communication would be worse.

It is not a big topic, it is a slight digression from smartphones for youngsters.
I don't use social media but know these things. There a more ways to get information than check your e.g. facebook page.
Getting balanced and truthful information takes a lot of effort and critical thinking.

Yes, because of smartphones and 'social media' the movement got big fast. But the information from scientists is online. The young humans can find this and be scared for their future. Greta and 'social media' helped to massively communicate this. That doesn't mean that the communication medium is sound. It worked here in a good way but is harmful in general.

Don't you take Tim Cook serious?
Or the other big tech CEO's? Isn't that a big red flag?
Or all the articles that have been written about it?

Real communication is when I talk to you in real life with all non-verbal communication :)
Preferably in a human language that is efficient, unambiguous, equal, in reality, logical and complete. In order for humans to be able to communicate a complex thought to another human by spoken words through the air, to the ear of the other. But that is all theoretical optimilisation.
That generalization is stupid, even if it would done by "tech executives" (I am also one, albeit surely not "big"). "Real" communication for teens is possible in a small radius only - how should they communicate on long distance? E.g. from here to Stockholm it takes 20h on a train (my daughter also does not use planes). And how to communicate with young people in Korea or USA (as my son frequently does via "social media" or other new internet communication methods). For "non verbal communication" they also develop new things, which may be strange for older people.

And again - where do you want to draw the line for teenage people? TV? Computers? Internet? Cars? Any engines? That is just bullshit. Really. Better try to discuss with them how to balance "non real" communication with other localized methods (theater, music...). And please consider: You can can try to teach them as you like - young people will reproduce your own behavior anyway ;-)   
And this forum is also some kind of social medium, is it that bad?
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: KiwiGriff on November 19, 2019, 07:10:13 PM
Quote
Real communication is when I talk to you in real life with all non-verbal communication
This is how Aspie's get excluded .
We don't grok non verbal communication.  We also don't do monkey chatter.

Part of Greta's success is because she does not play the social game and kowtow to your social norms by self censoring the message.

Quote
“What would happen if the autism gene was eliminated from the gene pool?

You would have a bunch of people standing around in a cave, chatting and socializing and not getting anything done.”
― Temple Grandin,
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: kassy on November 19, 2019, 07:47:43 PM
Real communication is when I talk to you in real life with all non-verbal communication
This is how Aspie's get excluded .


That definition is how everything here gets excluded. There are different ways to communicate and they all vary in scope and effect. I much prefer forums over twitter because you can go a bit more in depth with longer messages and attachments as needed. And it has less clutter too.

None of the modern communication forms will go away so just teach wise use but that is hard because the modern facebook mobile phone like addiction thing is new to most adults too.

Then again they technically have to teach the kids that consumerism is bad while that is basically the only thing they have known...
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: SATire on November 19, 2019, 08:03:00 PM
Then again they technically have to teach the kids that consumerism is bad while that is basically the only thing they have known...
That (consumerism is bad) is basically what the teens are trying to teach us adults. But they have the fear that they are to slow - they have only 10 years left to get us old convinced to getting sober (from consumerism). We are the addicted ones not the young people. Now the old and obviously not so wise people have to follow the youth (see Trump vs. Greta - he made her start FfF as she explained). Strange days.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Sigmetnow on November 19, 2019, 08:16:04 PM
Never mind “screen time.”  In a few years we can be connected directly to the internet via a neural interface like Neuralink.  Imagine learning anything you want just by thinking about it....  We’re already cyborgs, just with the electronics on the outside.

https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,1392.msg214286.html#msg214286
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: blumenkraft on November 19, 2019, 08:20:25 PM
neural interface

Now we are talking!  8)
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: KiwiGriff on November 19, 2019, 08:47:27 PM
Quote
None of the modern communication forms will go away so just teach wise use but that is hard because the modern facebook mobile phone like addiction thing is new to most adults too.
Yes.
 Excluding your kids from social media is like abstinence only sex education. Doomed to failure once they grow past  your influence .  Teach the critical thinking skills to sort  wheat from the monkey chatter not just hide your kids from the issues with facetwit et al .

As to neural networks .
Sorry I will give that one a miss. I  have a hard enough time coping with information overload as it is.

The internet and connection revolution is as bigger change as the written and printed word was in the past
It will take generations to discover how much this paradigm shift has changed the human condition.
 
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: etienne on November 20, 2019, 06:37:36 AM
Well, one of my sons had an average screen time of 5:30 hours a day, with maximums above 7. I guess you understand that I limited that. And this was only on the smartphone because he also has an Ipad for school and we have a television at home.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: TerryM on November 20, 2019, 08:09:22 AM
Quote
None of the modern communication forms will go away so just teach wise use but that is hard because the modern facebook mobile phone like addiction thing is new to most adults too.
Yes.
 Excluding your kids from social media is like abstinence only sex education. Doomed to failure once they grow past  your influence .  Teach the critical thinking skills to sort  wheat from the monkey chatter not just hide your kids from the issues with facetwit et al .

As to neural networks .
Sorry I will give that one a miss. I  have a hard enough time coping with information overload as it is.

The internet and connection revolution is as bigger change as the written and printed word was in the past
It will take generations to discover how much this paradigm shift has changed the human condition.

Are you familiar with Toffler's 'Third Wave'? A 'futurist' from the past.
He wrote of the 'revolution' you mention & discussed possible ramifications in depth some 40 years ago.


It still seemed fresh in the late 1990's & I've no doubt that at least some of his observations will apply to coming generations.


Carlos Slim, once the richest man in the world, attributed his success to investments based entirely on Toffler's foresight.
We may not be striving for financial gain, but examining this rapidly evolving world through the eyes of one of the first to recognise how profoundly computers were about to change the world could provide insights, even 40 years later.
Terry

Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: rboyd on November 22, 2019, 09:40:47 AM
I think quite a bit of crony capitalism and monopoly over-pricing for Mexican telecom services helped Mr. Slim amass his fortune.

Quote
And the picture is far from flattering. Omnipresent in the lives of Mexicans, Slim dominates a range of sectors and his fortune is estimated to be 7 percent of the GDP. A fortune that is the product of bold and intelligent decisions, but also of governments and regulators that created him. They propelled him. They protected him. More than an innovative businessman, he emerges as a Mexican prototype of the Russian oligarchs, who have multiplied their fortunes under the shadow of power. He is the main protagonist of the oligarchic capitalism in which influence peddling occupies the void left by the lack of laws and strong governments.

https://mexicovoices.blogspot.com/2015/11/mexicos-crony-capitalism-carlos-slim.html?view=magazine (https://mexicovoices.blogspot.com/2015/11/mexicos-crony-capitalism-carlos-slim.html?view=magazine)
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: TerryM on November 22, 2019, 12:33:06 PM
^^
I never claimed he was a nice, or even an honest person. Anyone extracting such affluence from a population often forced to skip over their northern border in an attempt to feed their family isn't deserving of much empathy.


But he was, according to his own words very impressed by Toffler's predictions.


I'd read The 3d Wave when it first came out, then again after the Soviet Empire imploded (as Toffler had predicted). He also felt that the US wouldn't survive long into the "Information Age" - I'm still holding my breath on that one. ::)
Terry
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: gerontocrat on November 22, 2019, 12:52:18 PM
neural interface

Now we are talking!  8)
I thought Google was interested in neural in-yer-face. Google will use my data as analysed by AI and flog it to all and sundry and, worse still, to modify my thoughts by guiding my search results to the sites that reflect "Google Family Values", of which XR is not one.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Tom_Mazanec on November 22, 2019, 01:43:58 PM
When Future Shock came out I read it straight in one sitting, a whole day. I was 12. Very big impression.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: TerryM on November 22, 2019, 03:28:58 PM
^^
Chomsky and a few others still leave me hugely impressed with their interpretations of the human condition, and our reactions to the evolving political landscape. Google, Facebook and particularly Neuralink scare the hell out of me.
I've enough difficulty sorting and storing my own thoughts, without other's thoughts being beamed into my consciousness with or without an express connection.


I've often found that the process of learning was of more value than the facts the process elicited. Now so many seem bent on feeding me what they claim are facts, with little or no effort on my part.


Athletes and gymnasts know that they need to use their body to stay in physical trim. Google and Facebook seek to ease the loads we mentally manipulate to learn, or maintain what they insist is social interaction, while Neuralink wants us to sit back as they mentally pump iron at our command. (He's also intent on driving my damn car)!


We lost a lot when we gave away our bicycle and bought our first car, now many of us would find commuting by bike a huge inconvenience simply because we've made little use of those muscles over the ensuing years. Why allow our children to make similar mistakes by embracing their phone and letting their mental faculties atrophy. Why allow ourselves to forget the thrill of shaking the hands of new friends or judging a person's physical reactions to our actions, solving our own problems in our own way - or even driving a sports car on a winding road as the wind ruffles what's left of our hair.


Damn, I'm sounding like a boycott prone neo-luddite myself. Should I begin following my own good advise?
Nah
Terry
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: nanning on November 22, 2019, 07:16:25 PM
Perhaps it's getting boring for readers, but I want to thank you again for those words. I think they sketch a significant view.
Neo-luddites. I like that :).
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: SATire on November 22, 2019, 07:30:51 PM
Greta on Twitter: They survived the storm by slowing down the boat. Now they are back on track and hope not to be late for the conference.

PS: I am really happy that Twitter exists since Greta posts there and thus it is not dominated by Trump anymore. The problem obviously is not the tech but who uses it -  and not the young people cause the trouble... 

By the way: Next global school strike is on Nov. 29. Help the kids. See you on the streets and not only in the virtual world of this forum ;-)
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: SATire on December 01, 2019, 01:18:20 AM
Estimated time of arrival now: Tuesday  :D
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: nanning on December 02, 2019, 08:35:03 PM
From The Guardian a beautiful, interesting and perhaps important video:
  by Richard Sprenger et al

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_owNfcUrkY
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: nanning on December 03, 2019, 06:24:49 PM
  Greta Thunberg arrives in Lisbon after three-week voyage from US

Climate activist heading to COP25 in Madrid after crossing Atlantic on family’s yacht

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/dec/03/greta-thunberg-arrives-in-lisbon-cop25-after-three-week-voyage-from-us
  by Associated Press
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Florifulgurator on December 03, 2019, 08:05:49 PM
And again someone finds fault with her carbon footprint  ::)  German tabloid of tabloids says: "Again Greta sails not climate neutral"
https://www.bild.de/politik/ausland/politik-ausland/uno-klimagipfel-greta-thunberg-segelt-wieder-mit-schlechter-co2-bilanz-66418304.bild.html
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: blumenkraft on December 03, 2019, 08:12:55 PM
For context, Bild is the German FoxNews but print.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: SATire on December 03, 2019, 08:15:55 PM
Greta: If you don't Like angry Kids then stop making Kids angry 😁

https://youtu.be/Q38vpww1W54

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/greta-thunberg-arrives-in-lisbon-by-yacht-from-us-1.4103166
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: nanning on December 04, 2019, 06:46:39 PM
Greta Thunberg, schoolgirl,16, is having a very hard life, having celebrity status. She has a very strong character.
I wish her strenght and focus (and rest, in a non-moving bed).
(50s)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TsnUayIiY8
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Florifulgurator on December 05, 2019, 06:18:39 PM
Want to see other kids for a change? Greta's friend Amy Goodman reports and interviews in Stockholm: Right Livelihood Award & Greta arrival speeches:
https://youtu.be/HiVjzyCyNP0
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: crandles on December 06, 2019, 08:00:58 PM
"People want everything to continue like now and they are afraid of change," she told reporters.

"And change is what we young people are bringing and that is why they want to silence us and that is just a proof that we are having an impact that our voices are being heard that they try so desperately to silence us."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-50680781

Is "try so desperately to silence us"
appropriate? OTT? or ... ?
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Tom_Mazanec on December 06, 2019, 09:33:59 PM
From perhaps the cosmoquest forum's top poster:
Quote
I believe we might reach "peak Greta" fairly soon. She's essentially unassailable - no interviewer (at least, not one who wants to stay in a job) is going to ask probing, difficult questions of a child who has significant mental health issues, especially when her current crusade is helping her deal with those issues (at least in the short term). So she isn't being held to account in the same way as, say, a climate scientist. But something will give, because it's an unstable situation unless she actually manages to start a religion (admittedly not outwith the bounds of possibility). I just hope the eventual failure mode is a tolerable one for Thunberg, but I do fear for her.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Florifulgurator on December 06, 2019, 09:43:51 PM
Is "try so desperately to silence us"
appropriate? OTT? or ... ?
I've seen this desperation on individual levels here in Germany. E.g. what once was a good old sweet hippie friend of mine turned into an elderly white male spitting bile, condescendingly calling her "Gretel", confessing his total intellectual and moral bankruptcy on Facebook. I had to slap him with Dietrich Bonhoeffer's essay on stupidity and left it there. Many elderly white alpha males are wailing in the agony of their intellectual-moral castration. It is a significant part of the population. Methinks the less one cares about them the better. Leave the sorry old clowns behind.

P.S.: Coincidentally Tom quotes a perfect example. "Religion" Hahaaaaaaahahahaha.....
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Sigmetnow on December 07, 2019, 04:54:25 PM
Quote
Bill McKibben (@billmckibben) 12/6/19, 1:56 PM
Gotta love the call-and-response from some NYC climate strikers today! #FridaysForFuture
https://twitter.com/billmckibben/status/1203025353977081856
14-second video clip.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: nanning on December 07, 2019, 05:49:16 PM
Want to see other kids for a change? Greta's friend Amy Goodman reports and interviews in Stockholm: Right Livelihood Award & Greta arrival speeches:
<snip>

Thanks Florifulgurator for that video. It brought tears to my eyes :).
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: nanning on December 08, 2019, 05:36:54 PM
Remember, this is a 16yo schoolgirl. Deep respect for this human. I admire her focus and courage. Take care of yourself Greta.

(58s)
Greta Thunberg faces media hysteria as she arrives in Madrid
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfUqGWVMrEs
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Hefaistos on December 09, 2019, 05:35:10 AM
Nice interview with Greta in Dagens Nyheter, the leading Swedish daily newspaper.
On her preparations for giving a speech at COP, there will be no more 'emotional stuff':

"Have you written the speech yet?

– No. But I know approximately what it is going to be like.

What is your line of reasoning?

– Apparently I am quite bad at giving speeches. Because what people bring up from the speech in New York is me sitting and saying: ”How dare you? You have stolen my dreams and my childhood” and that is not what I want to communicate. I want to communicate facts. And if you leave out what the rest of the speech is all about, if you only take out three sentences, then that makes me sound like an idiot.

What are you going to say?

– I don’t give speeches so that I in some magical way will talk world leaders into realizing that I am right and they are wrong. My long term goal is that the gap between what science is saying and what is actually being done is made so clear that it can no longer be ignored. So now I am not going to give them any emotional stuff. Now they will get real content. "

https://www.dn.se/nyheter/varlden/greta-thunberg-in-exclusive-interview-the-hope-lies-in-the-fact-that-people-dont-know-what-is-going-on/
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: nanning on December 09, 2019, 09:34:53 AM
If you're interested.


In 1 hour time (at 10.30 in Madrid): LIVESTREAM

"Fridays For Future" with Greta and others

https://unfccc-cop25.streamworld.de/webcast/press-conference-by-greta-thunberg-luisa-neubauer-
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Florifulgurator on December 09, 2019, 06:52:03 PM
Nice interview with Greta in Dagens Nyheter, the leading Swedish daily newspaper.
Yeah. But I would say it is magnificient. :)
Required reading for Greta haters. This is no stupid little girl.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: nanning on December 10, 2019, 08:23:00 AM
If you're interested.
COP25
In half an hour time (at 8.45 in Madrid): LIVESTREAM

"Unite Behind The Science event with Greta Thunberg and Luisa Neubauer"

https://unfccc-cop25.streamworld.de/webcast/unite-behind-the-science-event-with-greta-thunberg


edit: having watched it: Really great and clear speeches and no ESLD :)
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: TerryM on December 11, 2019, 02:31:32 AM
End Stage Liver Disease?
End Stage Lung Disease?


There must be a different explanation.
Terry
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: nanning on December 11, 2019, 08:04:27 AM
Haha, no Terry, although these are also terminal symptoms. I copied the acronym ESLD from AbruptSLR and it stands for "Erring on the Side of Least Drama". In other words, to play down the risks, to view reality through rosy glasses.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Sigmetnow on December 11, 2019, 02:22:00 PM
Greta Thunberg is Time Magazine’s “Person of the Year.”
Quote
Person of the Year is an annual issue of the United States news magazine Time that features and profiles a person, a group, an idea, or an object that "for better or for worse... has done the most to influence the events of the year".
- Wikipedia


The Story Behind TIME's 2019 Person of the Year Cover
https://time.com/5746483/behind-person-of-the-year-2019-covers/

TIME Person of the Year 2019: How We Chose Greta Thunberg
https://time.com/person-of-the-year-2019-greta-thunberg-choice/

Greta Thunberg is the Youngest TIME Person of the Year Ever.  Here’s how she made history.
https://time.com/5746458/youngest-time-person-of-the-year/
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Florifulgurator on December 11, 2019, 11:01:34 PM
Amy Goodman is again doing excellent reporting from the COP. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrKdR3CQGes&list=PL0F1F946BD995C654
It's not just because of Greta, but I like to call it "Greta Effect" what is perceptible in Madrid.

Apropos Persons of the Years, here are my two favorite Greta pics. "Early Greta" in Katowice. And "Greta ripened even more". I'm not sure the latter isn't photoshopped. Her wrinkling dwarfs Emilia Clarke... :)
.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Florifulgurator on December 12, 2019, 10:47:10 PM
Finally, Greta's climate summit speech (for what she criss-crossed the Atlantic).

https://youtu.be/hnbtthGrGf0
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Tom_Mazanec on December 15, 2019, 03:14:09 AM
Is this fake news?
Greta Thunberg tells cheering crowd 'we will make sure we put world leaders against the wall' if they do not tackle global warming as she attends climate protest in Turin
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7789463/Greta-Thunberg-arrives-Turin-Italy-star-turn-huge-climate-change-demonstration.html
If she actually said this, then she is totally wrong. You don't line up and shoot world leaders (many if not most democratically elected) just because you don't like their policies.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: SteveMDFP on December 15, 2019, 08:43:04 AM
Is this fake news?
Greta Thunberg tells cheering crowd 'we will make sure we put world leaders against the wall' if they do not tackle global warming as she attends climate protest in Turin
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7789463/Greta-Thunberg-arrives-Turin-Italy-star-turn-huge-climate-change-demonstration.html
If she actually said this, then she is totally wrong. You don't line up and shoot world leaders (many if not most democratically elected) just because you don't like their policies.

She did, but with a different meaning intended.  She apologized and explained:

Greta Thunberg apologizes for "against the wall" comment
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/greta-thunberg-climate-activist-apologizes-for-against-the-wall-comment/ (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/greta-thunberg-climate-activist-apologizes-for-against-the-wall-comment/)

...""Yesterday I said we must hold our leaders accountable and unfortunately said 'put them against the wall,'" the 16-year-old climate activist tweeted on Saturday. "That's Swenglish: 'att ställa någon mot väggen' (to put someone against the wall) means to hold someone accountable."
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: blumenkraft on December 15, 2019, 09:01:47 AM
Watch the video. It is clear what she means. Unfortunate use of words maybe. Shit happens.

She obviously meant we sould corner them into a position where they have to make decisions not killing them.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Hefaistos on December 15, 2019, 01:17:57 PM
Watch the video. It is clear what she means. Unfortunate use of words maybe. Shit happens.

She obviously meant we sould corner them into a position where they have to make decisions not killing them.

Confirmed by your favourite Swede)
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: gerontocrat on December 15, 2019, 08:20:41 PM
One thing for sure, COP25 had a negative impact on the life expectancy of all 16-year old people.

The powers that presume to govern us are putting them against the wall in the most unpleasant use of those words.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: TerryM on December 16, 2019, 06:49:28 AM
I've no doubt that everyone born this century will find their lives shortened, or at the least their options curtailed by the kick the can decisions that our generation is imposing. Will they patiently wait until political power slips from our aging grip, or will intergenerational strife be yet another horror to be faced.



If I were 16 I might think that putting only a few leaders "against the wall" was letting a whole generation off with a very light sentence.
Terry


Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Sigmetnow on December 31, 2019, 05:21:37 PM
Quote
Dana Nuccitelli (@dana1981) 12/31/19, 10:02 AM
Deniers love to attack @GretaThunberg by claiming her parents are controlling and harming her. This is a lovely interview debunking that horrid and despicable myth

BBC Radio 4 Today (@BBCr4today) 12/30/19, 2:54 AM
Svante Thunberg, father of @GretaThunberg, talks to us about the journey his daughter has been on - from a time when she rarely left the house or spoke to anyone outside her family, to campaigning globally on climate change.
https://twitter.com/bbcr4today/status/1211556222475878400

Greta Thunberg's father: 'She is happy, but I worry' - BBC News
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-50901789

The video is at both links.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Juan C. García on January 02, 2020, 04:35:10 PM
Greta starts the year with this retweet. I really like the postcast and I recommend to hear it:

https://twitter.com/jrockstrom/status/1212321310275252225?s=20 (https://twitter.com/jrockstrom/status/1212321310275252225?s=20)
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: TerryM on January 02, 2020, 06:35:23 PM
^^
Juan


The responses were frightening.
I had no idea that so many ff bots were running wild through the internet. :-\


The new UN convention on cybercrime has its work cut out for it. Damn shame that the US & Vassal States are opposing the effort.
https://www.insightsonindia.com/2019/12/30/un-backs-russia-on-internet-convention/ (https://www.insightsonindia.com/2019/12/30/un-backs-russia-on-internet-convention/)


https://www.rt.com/news/477024-un-russia-resolution-cyber-crime/ (https://www.rt.com/news/477024-un-russia-resolution-cyber-crime/)


Terry
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: blumenkraft on January 04, 2020, 06:00:10 PM
Happy birthday, Greta!
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: nanning on January 10, 2020, 06:12:02 PM
Davos 2020

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jan/10/greta-thunberg-davos-tycoons-fossil-fuels-dismantle-climate-crisis
  by Greta Thunberg et al

At Davos we will tell world leaders to abandon the fossil fuel economy

  Quotes:
Young climate activists and school strikers from around the world will be present to put pressure on these leaders.

We demand that at this year’s forum, participants from all companies, banks, institutions and governments immediately halt all investments in fossil fuel exploration and extraction, immediately end all fossil fuel subsidies and immediately and completely divest from fossil fuels.

We don’t want these things done by 2050, 2030 or even 2021, we want this done now – as in right now.
-
since the 2015 Paris agreement, 33 major global banks have collectively poured $1.9tn (£1.5tn) into fossil fuels, according to Rainforest Action’s report. The IMF concluded that in 2017 alone, the world spent $5.2tn subsidising fossil fuels. This has to stop.
-
history has not shown the corporate world’s willingness to hold themselves accountable. So it falls on us, the children, to do that.
-
Our request to them is perhaps not so far-fetched considering that they say they understand and prioritise this emergency. Anything less than immediately ceasing these investments in the fossil fuel industry would be a betrayal of life itself. Today’s business as usual is turning into a crime against humanity.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: TerryM on January 10, 2020, 11:38:12 PM
^^
Today's BAU is turning into a crime against humanity.
and Green BAU is crime of Orwellian proportions. Lying by Corporate heads in the new normal. Imagine if Henry Ford had told his followers he was only building cars to save the world from horse shit - someone would have screamed "Bull Shit".
Terry
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: nanning on January 11, 2020, 06:05:59 AM
^^
Ah, the times past, the-age-of-reason, when civilisation humans still had critical thoughts, courage and empathy.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: TerryM on January 12, 2020, 04:52:25 AM
^^
There was a time when Greed was viewed as a reprehensible sin.
Poverty has taken Greed's place as the worst financial sin one can commit.


Committing the Sin of Poverty is acting directly in defiance of all that the West's values.
Poverty must be punished, not subsidized.


But if Poverty must be perpetuated for the greater good of sustaining Greed, then the impoverished must be hidden.


Hew down them tents my council
With all the speed ye may.
I, with two beside me
Will hold them bums at bay.


In yon encampment thousands
May well be stopped by three
Now who will stand
On either hand
and keep the peace with me?


Then out spake Studley Larry
From Ramparts, Proud was he.
Yo! I will stand at yer right hand
An' keep the peace with thee.


And out spake Dirty Harry
of Eastwood Blood was he.
"I will abide on thy left side
An' keep the peace with thee.


Apologies to all
Terry
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: nanning on January 12, 2020, 08:28:08 AM
If thou hast many belongings
from not sharing any things
Mammon shall shine on thee

the blinding light
of spreading plight
believe you me

because now wrong is right

nanning


Apologies to no-one ;)
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: rboyd on January 12, 2020, 08:54:30 PM
The Greta et al seems to have been a lot more prevalent, as a Facebook glitch showed who was actually making the updates on Greta's page. Some damage limitation was attempted, but perhaps some of the rose colour has been wiped off some progressives' proverbial glasses.

Greta is a product, just like "green capitalism" and "eco-modernism" to sell a continued BAU covered by a veneer of greenwashing. Just like at the end of the Yellow Brick Road, we always have to remember to look behind the curtain. I am not blaming here, my problem is with the shit-hole adults around her.

We cannot cut emissions by 7% a year (what even the highly conservative UN is saying is required) by growing more trees (the research pretty much debunks that idea anyway) or playing at the economic edges. We will get massive (and massively profitable) geo-engineering instead blessed by Greta (or her dad, or that guy in India) and XR. The rich are already starting to reorient their invetsments toward "greentech".
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: oren on January 12, 2020, 11:01:22 PM
Rboyd, while I highly value your contributions in other threads on this forum, I strongly dislike your very strong negative language about Greta. I think Greta is doing a great service and is actually calling for very drastic measures. If they're not being implemented it's not for her lack of trying.
Calling her a product, throwing in greenwashing as well, is IMHO offensive.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: rboyd on January 12, 2020, 11:43:02 PM
Oren, we can agree to disagree. This Bloomberg article about Greta puts the "establishment" view so well - making us (the elite) feel a little uncomfortable is ok, but no real radicalism please Greta! When I see the MSM actually start to get really upset and much less photo-ops with fake environmentalist elites and the WEF, then I will see the Greta phenom. in a different light.

Currently she is being used for greenwashing by many with the photo-ops with politicians, business people, WEF etc. who have no intention of making any real progress. This may change, maybe she throws off the minders and elite "helpers", we will see (we have certainly seen a little bit of exasperation at the reality of no real change) . Life for her will get a lot harder really fast if she does, the elite and their MSM are brutal will anyone they see as a real threat.

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-10-09/planet-earth-will-pay-the-price-for-greta-thunberg-s-radicalism (https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-10-09/planet-earth-will-pay-the-price-for-greta-thunberg-s-radicalism)

To paraphrase an early twentieth-century trades unionist (and no its was not Gandhi - that is one of the worst quote attributions around):

- At first they try and dismiss you/make fun of you (or also co-opt you?)
- Then they try to burn you
- Then they erect (or murals and Time front pages?) statues to you

You can't start at step 3, it means you were never seen as a real threat to the status quo.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: gerontocrat on January 13, 2020, 12:27:45 AM
Greta is just one person, and we can see the usual bunch of arse-lickers trying to turn her unique self and uniquely powerful message into a band-wagon they can jump upon.

I just hope she has that inner strength to remain herself and not be twisted into a caricature of herself by the Spin Factory.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Neven on January 13, 2020, 12:39:28 AM
Like Gerontocrat says, it can both be true: Greta is a sincere young person with a positive influence on collective consciousness, and there are forces behind her and around her that are trying to divert energy away from real systemic changes.

It would be something if Greta would call for a cap on personal wealth, but she is too young to connect all the dots. And she would lose support and attention very, very quickly.

I also share Gerontocrat's hope that Greta comes out of this unscathed. She deserves that.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Tor Bejnar on January 13, 2020, 05:15:05 AM
My fingers crossed hoping she goes back to school to primarily get a solid education, and that, when asked, she says, "Listen to X, Y, and Z, scientists who understand what is happening.  Here's their latest paper," (handing out a copy) in line with what she has done ever so many times before.

I, too, wish her well.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: blumenkraft on January 13, 2020, 05:33:43 AM
geo-engineering instead blessed by Greta

Any link on that or did you make that one up too?
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: rboyd on January 13, 2020, 06:17:10 AM
Greta and XR etc. have all stated that what they want is the climate issue "dealt with" as a matter of urgency and a reduction in CO2 emissions (net or gross). This opens up the answer of "yes we hear you and take you seriously" followed by Solar Radiation Management (to reduce temperatures) and large scale negative emissions through whatever technologies can be made to work profitably (Bio-energy carbon capture and storage (BECCS), direct air capture of CO2 (DACS), reforestation financialized through offset credits etc.), plus "sometime in the future" plans for industry to go carbon neutral.

Basically an eco-modernist stop-gap to keep the status quo growth and economic structure wheels turning as long as possible. But it can be presented as giving Greta and XR exactly what they want, very hard for them not to praise those providing such an "urgent" solution. Greta's support has already been given (by whomever made the decision to do so) to the plant more trees stuff, which is deeply flawed scientifically.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/sep/19/greta-thunberg-we-are-ignoring-natural-climate-solutions (https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/sep/19/greta-thunberg-we-are-ignoring-natural-climate-solutions)

https://www.wired.com/story/trees-regenerative-agriculture-climate-change/ (https://www.wired.com/story/trees-regenerative-agriculture-climate-change/)

350.org (with start up funding from the big-elite Rockefeller Brothers Foundation) got largely co-opted when they worked with CERES ("a sustainability nonprofit organization working with the most influential investors and companies to build leadership and drive solutions throughout the economy" - i.e. big business and finance) to spend so much time on their disinvestment campaigns which are to all intents and purposes useless. Lots of activist energy wasted, including my own. Same with the climate marches - make lots of spiffy banners, come along, march around (even weld yourself to something and get arrested), feel good, then go home (or jail for a short time). This is the circus part of what the Romans called "Bread and Circuses" to keep the "rabble" general population compliant. Compare that to the treatment doled out indigenous people's explicitly blocking pipeline and other oil and gas infrastructure (like those at Standing Rock), or OWS when it was decided to shut them down (under the Obama presidency).

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/29/standing-rock-protest-north-dakota-shutdown-evacuation (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/29/standing-rock-protest-north-dakota-shutdown-evacuation)

Al Gore is running a large "sustainable" investment fund with pals from Goldman Sachs etc., pushing the market as the solution to climate change.

https://www.ft.com/content/1757dc40-486f-11e8-8ee8-cae73aab7ccb (https://www.ft.com/content/1757dc40-486f-11e8-8ee8-cae73aab7ccb)

Stating a reality that you may not like is not making stuff up, and tossing slurs and insults does not befit you. Skepticism is healthy, especially when someone rises magically from nowhere and is so thoroughly embraced by the groups that are the source of the problem. I do research, try doing some yourself.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: blumenkraft on January 13, 2020, 08:40:11 AM
So, Greta is actually not advocating for geoengineering, right Rboyd?
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: oren on January 13, 2020, 09:02:57 AM
The politicians and the corporate elite will of course try to sideline and ignore Greta and her messages, just as they have done to countless other message bearers for decades. But when the silent majority finally rises maybe things will change.
Greta is only a schoolgirl who brought huge awareness to the climate crisis and affected the opinions of (tens? hundreds?) millions of people. She deserves all the praise she can get. If her messages are ignored you should put the blame where it belongs, on the politicians and corporate elite. Have your own messages been received and executed upon? I think not. So why diss her? Have you affected such numbers of people? I think not. At least she did.
She is not a product, she is just one person, lacking the power to make or cause a change by herself.
Maybe she will be beaten and give up later, maybe even sell herself somehow. This is understandable when facing impossible odds. That she hasn't done so yet tells a lot about her.
Praise, not unjustified criticism, is her due.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: nanning on January 13, 2020, 09:50:01 AM
Greta Thunberg listens to scientist and I know that Kevin Anderson and others are saying "Yes, investigate geo-engineering but be very careful before applying it on a huge scale". All methods must be looked at to lower the future temperature rises, including geo-engineering.
I think she will stay to the core of the messages of scientists and, like XR, not be political (apart from perhaps calling out climate criminals).

On Thomson Reuters today I've read that Greta Thunberg has called for Siemens to abort their support and role in the development of the massive Adani coalmine in Australia.

I think Greta has a lot stronger character and integrity than many think or like to believe. She is extremely intelligent and I don't mean just abstract IQ.
I am so glad that according to her father in a recent Guardian article, she is now happy and out of depression. Dancing and laughing even. Brought tears to my eyes of happiness for her.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: P-maker on January 13, 2020, 01:14:46 PM
All clever and thoughtful remarks.

In stead of focusing on one child and her successsful crossing of the Atlantic (twice), we ought to act as adults and move the focus to "Sustainable Childhood".

I was inspired today by a local radio podcast (in Danish), which made me think that children and their actions may be  the way to leverage action. There is a hell of a difference between blaiming us old folks and aspiring young folks to lead the transition towards a sustainable future for our children and grandchildren.

Our newly elected Prime Minister (Mette Frederiksen) in Denmark has made the children the crunx of her policies. Obviously she has neglected the fact that a "sustainable childhood" is the best thing we can give our children.

Let our common aspirations towards a "Sustainable Childhood" be a leading paradigm - eventually a new thread to replace this obsolet diversion from reality.

Let us not overwhelm a burden of guilt on those shaky Swedish shoulders.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: ShortBrutishNasty on January 13, 2020, 04:50:20 PM
1.  What's with the jiu jitsu?  Rboyd clearly stated he is not blaming Greta--rather "the shithole adults around her."  BTW, Rboyd, "shithole" is not hyphenated.  You're welcome.

2.  And speaking of shithole adults, how 'bout this greenwashing work of art?  Makes you all warm and fuzzy inside, doesn't it?  Finally!  Something is being done!

Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Florifulgurator on January 14, 2020, 12:27:09 AM
I think Greta has a lot stronger character and integrity than many think or like to believe.
...or are even capable of imagining. Her integrity borders to insanity for mortal humans. (The only well-meaning criticism I heard, from my mom: "Greta is crazy")

1.  What's with the jiu jitsu?  Rboyd clearly stated he is not blaming Greta--rather "the shithole adults around her."
Which is, of course, blaming her indirectly. "Greta the puppet" is a conspiracy theory invented by shithole adults.

-----------------
Here is the above mentioned "she's happy again" interview:
https://youtu.be/5BqhNBj8klc

------------------------
P.S.: Another interview with her father (starting 6:44) from a year earlier.  9:44 Greta's brutal logic against her mother.  And the logic that perhaps saved her life: "What is the point of feeling like this?"
https://youtu.be/0TYyBtb1PH4

Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: blumenkraft on January 14, 2020, 09:38:23 AM
Which is, of course, blaming her indirectly. "Greta the puppet" is a conspiracy theory invented by shithole adults.

Which is, of course, the only thing ShortBrutishNasty does on this forum.

Better not feed the troll, Martin.

Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: ShortBrutishNasty on January 14, 2020, 04:31:45 PM
Blümchen,

If I were to make a wild and unwarranted comment about your mother, that WOULD be trolling.  If, however, I were merely deliberating a point in controversy, that is NOT trolling.

https://unlcms.unl.edu/engineering/james-hanson/trolls-and-their-impact-social-media

Six months from now, you'll be going, "Hey, whatever happened to that Greta girl?"  Well, she's been quietly and efficiently co-opted.  As in co-opted.

I'm just parroting rboyd, and providing entertaining graphics to support my point--none of which was inflammatory.

And, if it helps any, my real name is:

Bob
 
P.S. And feeding trolls??  I'm certainly not the resident bot sabotaging/derailing ASIF on a daily basis with his/its extremely low-effort and largely off-topic post-bombing.  Why do people keep feeding that??
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Tom_Mazanec on January 14, 2020, 04:41:50 PM
Quote
P.S. And feeding trolls??  I'm certainly not the resident bot sabotaging/derailing ASIF on a daily basis with his/its extremely low-effort and largely off-topic post-bombing.  Why do people keep feeding that??

And who would that be?

EDIT: I gave him a day to reply, and then tried to send a PM but I was blocked.
I assume he means me, but might not -
from a PM he sent me in September:
Quote
Your post-bombing has been a gross and blatant abuse of this forum's hospitality.

Effective immediately, please limit your posting to no more than three(3) posts per day.

Should you exceed this limit, further steps will be taken.

On or after thirty(30) days from now, you may petition me directly for a reconsideration of this limit.  At that time, we might discuss contributions by ASLR, Sigmetnow, and others.
So there are at least four others he may be referring to (ASLR, Sigmetnow, and "others").
I have an average of seven posts a day. What is "post-bombing"? Six posts a day? Five posts? Four?

"extremely low effort and largely off topic"? First, what is extremely low effort? Do we have to perform the research we post ourselves? Do we have to personally interview climate scientists? Second, I have made an effort to be on topic. That was why, when I started, I was posting climate news in 20 different threads. Neven told me to stop, and I immediately dropped it to one (and then essentially none). Neven told me to promote "interesting discussions". I have made an effort to do this. I have repeatedly checked with Neven to make sure my Forum behavior meets his approval. I am open to suggestions as to how to improve.

And BTW, that is not the sort of PM a member sends. Even if Neven was in communication with you, you do not send a PM like that unless you are an administrator and/or moderator.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: nanning on January 14, 2020, 06:33:06 PM
blumenkraft I love you but I think you are sometimes a bit too outspokenly judgmental.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: blumenkraft on January 14, 2020, 06:48:07 PM
Do you consider this to be a bad thing, Nanning?
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: KiwiGriff on January 14, 2020, 07:14:11 PM
https://www.tonyattwood.com.au/

From my clinical experience I consider that children and adults with Aspergers Syndrome have a different, not defective, way of thinking.

The person usually has a strong desire to seek knowledge, truth and perfection with a different set of priorities than would be expected with other people. There is also a different perception of situations and sensory experiences. The overriding priority may be to solve a problem rather than satisfy the social or emotional needs of others.

The person values being creative rather than co-operative.

The person with Aspergers syndrome may perceive errors that are not apparent to others, giving considerable attention to detail, rather than noticing the “big picture”.

The person is usually renowned for being direct, speaking their mind and being honest and determined and having a strong sense of social justice.

The person may actively seek and enjoy solitude, be a loyal friend and have a distinct sense of humour.

However, the person with Aspergers Syndrome can have difficulty with the management and expression of emotions.

Children and adults with Aspergers syndrome may have levels of anxiety, sadness or anger that indicate a secondary mood disorder. There may also be problems expressing the degree of love and affection expected by others. Fortunately, we now have successful psychological treatment programs to help manage and express emotions.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Juan C. García on January 14, 2020, 07:27:54 PM
https://www.tonyattwood.com.au/

From my clinical experience I consider that children and adults with Aspergers Syndrome have a different, not defective, way of thinking.

The person usually has a strong desire to seek knowledge, truth and perfection with a different set of priorities than would be expected with other people. There is also a different perception of situations and sensory experiences. The overriding priority may be to solve a problem rather than satisfy the social or emotional needs of others.

The person values being creative rather than co-operative.

The person with Aspergers syndrome may perceive errors that are not apparent to others, giving considerable attention to detail, rather than noticing the “big picture”.

The person is usually renowned for being direct, speaking their mind and being honest and determined and having a strong sense of social justice.

The person may actively seek and enjoy solitude, be a loyal friend and have a distinct sense of humour.

However, the person with Aspergers Syndrome can have difficulty with the management and expression of emotions.

Children and adults with Aspergers syndrome may have levels of anxiety, sadness or anger that indicate a secondary mood disorder. There may also be problems expressing the degree of love and affection expected by others. Fortunately, we now have successful psychological treatment programs to help manage and express emotions.
Great comment. 10 likes! (if I could give them).  ;)
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: kassy on January 15, 2020, 03:01:15 PM
noticing the “big picture”

I like the quotation marks there. For a lot of people the big picture is ´do i look good here´ which is very different from problem solving.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: P-maker on January 15, 2020, 06:05:32 PM
Kiwigriff,

Please make sure that you do not turn every concerned scientist into a person with Aspergers syndrome.

It is about time we call a spade a spade and not a vehichle of dung mobility...
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: blumenkraft on January 15, 2020, 06:12:24 PM
Please make sure that you do not turn every concerned scientist into a person with Aspergers syndrome.

You imply they did it in the first place, which didn't happen.

This was a perfectly fine assessment concerning Aspergers. Nothing more, nothing less.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: nanning on January 15, 2020, 07:36:30 PM
When I see and hear the 'new' Greta these days, I cannot find anything that I don't recognize in myself, I see no syndrome, no abnormalities from the normal variations.
For some perspective: Most physicians are not scientists and in general don't have a high IQ. And psychology is not a real science yet (quote R.P.Feyman and I agree).

I was in this youngsters group where we were supposed to be 'highly gifted' and they all went around wallowing in that label, to the effect that when something was wrong or they didn't behave correct or didn't perform or anything like that, it was put down to that label of being 'highly gifted'. No more thinking and diversification. That is a barrier of your own making that hinders you to further naturally develop.

Perhaps Greta is 'cured'. Why not? A new diagnosis would be important to maybe get rid of the label. All those labels, and sweeping everybody with that label into the very same box, is not doing humans a favour in my opinion. No offence intended.


edit: changed "not very intelligent" to "in general don't have a high IQ" to remove the possible interpretation that physicians are not intelligent.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Florifulgurator on January 15, 2020, 09:18:42 PM
When I see and hear the 'new' Greta these days, I cannot find anything that I don't recognize in myself, I see no syndrome, no abnormalities from the normal variations.
Same here. The only "abnormality" I see is her stunted growth, perhaps due to her prior eating disorder?

However she might have simply learned to pretend to be "normal". Whatever, I regard her "condition" a gift - perhaps the next step in human evolution, as Dr Tony Attwood said. Attwood is the leading expert on Aspergers. E.g. he explains that Aspie girls are quite different to Aspie boys.

https://youtu.be/QY2ctCuTWPw

https://youtu.be/LuZFThlOiJI
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: KiwiGriff on January 15, 2020, 11:25:50 PM
Nanning do this .
https://rdos.net/eng/Aspie-quiz.php
Pay head to the questions they have been  selected over many iterations  because they are highly correlated with the difference between Aspie and neural typical behavior.

Then consider if you want to be "cured" of being your self and how it makes you feel when someone suggests it ?
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: kassy on January 16, 2020, 12:55:44 AM
There are many kind of people and then there is the question of what you classify as ´diseases´or ´normal´. Or different behaviour types and then what you throw at that as a cure because even back in the early nineties DSM-III included a lot of shady BS mainly aimed at pill pushing.

Her thesis makes more sense then our current fossil fuel subsidy so who is crazy now?
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: blumenkraft on January 16, 2020, 06:09:51 AM
Right, Kassy. It's not a disease, it's a condition.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: nanning on January 16, 2020, 07:44:21 AM
Thank you guys. Nice of you. I have had contact with blumenkraft earlier about this. I know I'm quite different seeing my life choices, courage, independency and intelligence (I don't mean IQ).
Nice suggestions. I will do the quiz KiwiGriff posted later.

My doubts increase when I read from Florifulgurator's post that girls with Asperger syndrome are quite different from boys with the syndrome. As a scientist I think that means that it is not a clear diagnose, but that there are several deeper factors involved. These deep factors are more fundamental and need to be found to call the diagnose scientific.

Re: Stunted growth.

I recognize that. Because of traumatic experiences I stopped growing from age 11-16, not only because I didn't eat a lot. At age 16 I was 1m45 (4 ft 9") and still with a child's voice (I had the emotional make-up of an 11yo until I was 36).

Just like Greta, I am black-and-white when it comes to AGW-supporting bad behaviour and took radical measures to not have ANY bad behaviour anymore (starting with carbon footprint etc). I chose not to be a grown-up because of the bad and unnatural behaviour of the grown-up groupsystem when I recognized it. I know of no other people who made such life determining completely independent choices.
I am outside group behaviour and observe in Greta the same. I haven't seen that in any Asperger or Autistic people I have met in my life. Most of them fly into abstractions and miss a lot of non-verbal communication. I really think Greta has changed a lot in the past couple of years. I restarted my physical growing after I had found a life goal and friends.

Up until now I haven't recognized myself in all criteria (some of them apply to many high IQ people I think and don't signify a 'condition') and I'm very reluctant to push myself in it to have a label and belong to a group according to a non-scientific academic discipline. Did R.P. Feynman have Aspergers Syndrome? I recognize a lot of myself in him.
Perhaps I'm a condition all by itself ;).
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Tor Bejnar on January 16, 2020, 02:54:46 PM
Quote
Perhaps I'm a condition all by itself ;).
Of course, we are each in our own 'condition', all by our self, even if we're an identical twin, etc.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: be cause on January 16, 2020, 05:16:26 PM
lovely how the truth is short , sweet and beautiful . ( Always :)  ) . b.c.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Tor Bejnar on January 16, 2020, 06:06:40 PM
from high school memory:  "All animals are equal, but pigs are more equal."
And we're all pigs, every one of us.  (And "us" includes every plant, animal and grain of sand.)
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: nanning on January 16, 2020, 07:10:07 PM
^^
My view and agreement:
There are no such things as worth and value in reality. It is a (civilisation) human concept.
Every lifeform is different and every lifeform is unimportant.

---

Earlier KiwiGriff posted an Aspie quiz test and ordered me to take it ;). I took it but was unable to send the results by PM attachment (it (almost) never works).
I post it here and ask your forgiveness.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Tor Bejnar on January 16, 2020, 07:47:03 PM
When I learned about the "Autism Spectrum" I latched on to the 'fact' it is a spectrum that we all fall into - one end or the other or somewhere in-between.  So I was indeed curious and took the quiz.  My Aspie score was 64.

Is this where we get to say, "I'm more [fill in the blank] than you!"?  :o ::) :P
Thanks, KiwiGriff, for the quiz link (https://rdos.net/eng/Aspie-quiz.php).
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: KiwiGriff on January 16, 2020, 10:51:15 PM
Is this where we get to say, "I'm more [fill in the blank] than you!"?  :o ::) :P
Griff about 136 Aspie.
Nothing to get too excited about I am still well within the category functioning  human .
Like IQ it is only a limited  dimensional measurement of the far more complex  human condition
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Florifulgurator on January 17, 2020, 12:13:44 AM
Like IQ it is only a limited  dimensional measurement of the far more complex  human condition
The more IQ the more stupid one can make up. You can have Down syndrome and still be wiser than the average city neurotic. Now I also need to take the test...
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: etienne on January 18, 2020, 08:14:23 AM
The weird thing these days is that humans need to be classified, and that "anomalies" seem worse that 40 years ago. Maybe I missed something, but I wonder if the IT doesn't make everything worse. Like if communication using computers wouldn't develop social feelings.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: nanning on January 18, 2020, 10:53:56 AM
Good observation in my view etienne.

Since it is an Autism 'Spectrum', why not use it as if it were wavelengths. Then I'm more blue than Tor, or Tor is more red than me, and KiwiGriff is more red than Tor  ;D.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: be cause on January 18, 2020, 11:12:19 AM
my result appears as an almost perfect circle .. I am perfectly abnormal .. :)  b.c.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: etienne on January 18, 2020, 12:24:13 PM
I was not far from the middle, but on the normal side. I'm not sure that such a test is anything worth.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Tom_Mazanec on January 18, 2020, 12:51:08 PM
I was not far from the middle, but on the normal side. I'm not sure that such a test is anything worth.
I’m pretty sure it’s not worth much. That is why I did not bother taking it.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: gerontocrat on January 18, 2020, 12:59:50 PM
my result appears as an almost perfect circle .. I am perfectly abnormal .. :)  b.c.
I remember a job interview from very long time ago. During the day long process I was sent to HR to have my personality assessed. If you were a "perfectly balanced / normal person" the result would be a circle. Mine wasn't - mountains and canyons registering deviations from the "norm".

The HR man pulled me from the interview. He quoth "See that spike - it says you do not suffer fools gladly - and that is who they really want, just someone to distribute the computer printouts". Lucky me - events proved he was right.

That's Greta's problem. A bunch mostly of plump, self-satisfied very well off middle-aged men do not take kindly to being called to account by a kid - a female kid - especially as they know she is right.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: nanning on January 18, 2020, 04:46:39 PM
Tom, how the hell do you know it's not worth much if you haven't seen the questions and analysed them?
I would have taken it just out of curiosity.

Dear gero (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gero), R.P.Feynman had a description for such people: "Pompous Fools".
My father was not happy with being called to account by 11yo me. He was older and wiser he said, so he was right because of that.. Let's just say I'm glad Greta's dad is not like that or like those pompous fools. Otherwise we would not have a 'Greta'. Many kudo's to Svante  :-*.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Tom_Mazanec on January 18, 2020, 05:11:39 PM
Well, for what it's worth:
Quote
Your neurodiverse (Aspie) score: 139 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 58 of 200
You are very likely neurodiverse (Aspie)

I have a big bulge 1 oclock to 3 oclock, and a narrow spike at 5 oclock.
And I figured it's worthless because I figure all such do-it-yourself tests are, in a science that is still mostly art.

Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: nanning on January 18, 2020, 05:53:16 PM
Then you should remove the diagram I think.

When I think something like this is worthless, I will have some arguments for that conclusion. Arguments from myself, from analysing.
Do you have arguments for your conclusion?

I'll stop my constructive criticism now, sorry.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: etienne on January 18, 2020, 06:22:33 PM
 Well, I think that the main problems of these tests is that they are subjective (what does it means to be shy?), conceived in a specific cultural context (being shy might be different in Tokio and in Paris), and that for some questions the link with the result of the test is too obvious.
When I was looking for my first job, these tests were quite trendy so I bought a book about it. There were liar detection questions asking for example if you have already been speeding on a highway, but they didn't ask how long you had the driver license. In my case, I had the university degree before the driver license, so these questions were very annoying.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: blumenkraft on January 18, 2020, 08:26:49 PM
I'm wondering if anyone here who's having an opinion on the quality of the test actually checked the method behind it. Because it's there to click and read. On that very site.

Experts made this test. Why are experts always so easily dismissed even on a forum that acknowledges the importance of expert knowledge?
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: KiwiGriff on January 18, 2020, 08:28:43 PM
The aspie test I linked to has a sold scientific basis behind it.
If you explore the site you will find a list of the hundreds of questions used in different iterations and the p value found with replies by those who have a formal diagnose. they have also looked at eliminating cultural factors .
All a  Psychologists is going to do to give you a formal diagnose is check your symptoms of against a list at a cost of many thousnds of dollars. As most Aspies grow though adult hood they learn to fake normality with thing like eye contact body language and social interaction so a psychologist often has to rely on their recollection of childhood. Diagnose is still a highly subjective process.
I don't need a shrink to tell me I am an Aspie I know what differences I had as a child and still have as an adult A diagnose would serve no value to me as I function reasonably well and dont need a piece of paper to explain my self .

The test was only offered as a learning opportunity to those here who are curios about asperger syndrom. Some have had enjoyment exploring the difference and some may have spent time considering their own position on the spectrum of the human condition.

Greta is the reason for this thread  as she her self says her impact is partially  due to the super powers asperger gives her. As an aspie who shares in some of her difference I can see how her Asperger enables her successful crusade
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: oren on January 18, 2020, 09:44:17 PM
I thought the test was actually good. I recognized many of my aspie-like characteristics and many of my non-aspie characteristics. Some few questions were a bit confusing and hard to answer properly but most were spot on. It was interesting to find out I am more neurotypical than I assumed, but I wonder what my score would have been at age 18.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Rodius on January 19, 2020, 03:47:10 AM
Just for the hell of it...
Your neurodiverse (Aspie) score: 156 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 62 of 200
You are very likely neurodiverse (Aspie)

I am clearly Autistic.
I only figured it out 12 years ago when my second son was diagnosed as autistic and I decided to learn everything there is to know about autism.
That opened my eyes a lot.
I also have two more kids who are both autistic as well. It is why I home school them... schools tend not to deal with autism well in Australia.

I had to learn the rules of normal people, I have always known I am different. I have also held leadership positions and did them well even with my quirks because the people I led knew where they stood, what was expected and I didnt bullshit anyone.

The only thing that annoys me about being autistic is not knowing it earlier.... if I had known earlier, I wouldnt have bothered to try so hard to figure out why people do what they do and I would have just done things my own way... which is what I have been doing for the least ten years. Life is so much better when you just be yourself.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Florifulgurator on January 19, 2020, 06:47:47 AM
I still haven't found time to do the test (*) (and pay hommage to Rodius and his son :) ). Because I found some great video/audios on one of the perhaps most extreme cases of Aspergers (according to Roy Lisker (1938-2019)). One of the greatest and surely the most prolific of all mathematicians ever, Alexandre Grothendieck (1928-2014). He created the abstract universe at the basis of the proof of Fermat's Last Theorem. His life story alone is fascinating and relevant... He went a bit crazy at the end, at one time almost starving from dandelion soup... If you find Newton, Einstein, Gödel, etc. fascinating then you need to know Grothendieck.

https://youtu.be/L--9bJApz_A

https://youtu.be/zJnboQ_5-8c


-------------------------
(*) Anyhow due to cultivated brain plasticity (still ongoing at 52y) it won't tell much, methinks.
BTW, I once peed at C.F.Gauss' tombstone in Göttingen. Would an Aspie do that?
(No, I'm not seriously collecting mathematician tombstones. You haven't seen my collection of Buddhist mummies yet :) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sokushinbutsu )


Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: nanning on January 19, 2020, 09:53:29 AM
This is not a serious post to discuss because it will lead to nowhere.
These are just my ideas and feel free to dismiss them and don't get angry or insulted :).

Cultivated brain plasticity! Yes! You have also found that enormously powerful tool it seems. Do you know how to programme your brain, to use this plasticity? I can give some tips about 'healing' your brain. I did it myself.
An important tip: stay as far away as possible from complete abstractions or calibrate them to reality.
Of course the quiz test won't tell much. Not just because the ambiguous questions but also because of preceived standard behaviour. I would start with looking at the way people's brains developed during the first 1000 days where almost all the connections are made and the brain is build, trying to mimic and adapt to infants immediate surroundings and stimulans. Those experts are not from the natural sciences. Be very very critical of anything they say. Sorry 'Aspie's, please don't be so easily angry and insulted. This is not physics by a long way. I have loads of arguments, have tried to communicate some to those experts and they didn't want to know anything about it without giving arguments. Bubbles everywhere without calibration.

"He created the abstract universe"
What does that mean? Abstract means that you cannot measure anything in it? People should stay calibrated in reality with their abstractions and fantasies and not take them too serious as if it has meaning. Humans need to get their fantasies under control in my opinion. Most of our current culture is ultimately based on fantasy.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Rodius on January 19, 2020, 11:03:03 AM
This is not a serious post to discuss because it will lead to nowhere.
These are just my ideas and feel free to dismiss them and don't get angry or insulted :).

Cultivated brain plasticity! Yes! You have also found that enormously powerful tool it seems. Do you know how to programme your brain, to use this plasticity? I can give some tips about 'healing' your brain. I did it myself.
An important tip: stay as far away as possible from complete abstractions or calibrate them to reality.
Of course the quiz test won't tell much. Not just because the ambiguous questions but also because of preceived standard behaviour. I would start with looking at the way people's brains developed during the first 1000 days where almost all the connections are made and the brain is build, trying to mimic and adapt to infants immediate surroundings and stimulans. Those experts are not from the natural sciences. Be very very critical of anything they say. Sorry 'Aspie's, please don't be so easily angry and insulted. This is not physics by a long way. I have loads of arguments, have tried to communicate some to those experts and they didn't want to know anything about it without giving arguments. Bubbles everywhere without calibration.

"He created the abstract universe"
What does that mean? Abstract means that you cannot measure anything in it? People should stay calibrated in reality with their abstractions and fantasies and not take them too serious as if it has meaning. Humans need to get their fantasies under control in my opinion. Most of our current culture is ultimately based on fantasy.

The quiz is okay. The research has been put into it, I didnt read the details but I am sure they would be saying that the quiz is not a replacement for professional diagnosis, the quiz is an indication only.
I personally take quizzes like this with that in mind.
They are fairly good for the most part though. Almost no neurotypical people taking the quiz register as autistic but most autistic people do measure as autistic. Among my friends (who are mostly autistic) they all register as autistic on quizzes like this. Not very scientific though, but what the hell, I will run with the anecdote anyway.

Brain Plasticity is something I believe everyone has.
It makes sense.
The first 1000 days after birth a very important for everyone.
The concept to bear in mind is that autism is a brain that is structured differently. In short, you cant change the structure, but you can still mold it as much as you can or are willing to do.

Here is a short article with references if you want to dig into it more.
https://www.spectrumnews.org/news/autism-brains-show-widespread-alterations-structure/

In the end, Greta has been professionally diagnosed as autistic. She has shown over the last year or two just how much growth and change can happen regardless of autism.

To me, it would be nice if people would simply accept that autistic brains are quite different, which means different ways of thinking.
There is the ability to learn and change and adapt just like neurotypical people because the brain is freaking awesome like that.
All of this has been shown via research.
People still argue it, and that is fine I suppose, and I like to hear different points of view so long as it can be supported in some way.

I am fixated on autism, so I know more than I care to say, but I dont think this thread is a good place to discuss autism specifically given it is about Greta. Maybe a new thread is in order?

Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: blumenkraft on January 19, 2020, 11:32:35 AM
Maybe a new thread is in order?

One argument for an Aspie thread would be that the aspie/NT ratio on this forum is disproportionately higher compared to the general public (for how i see it).
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Aporia_filia on January 19, 2020, 01:17:59 PM
Could all this mental diversity show that we are evolving?
Evolution didn't stop on us.
(my test looks like a top-hat inclined to the red, no neurotypical)
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: kassy on January 19, 2020, 02:54:19 PM
Most of the ´mental diversity´is brought to you by people pushing pills and other stuff.
We are always evolving since it is non optional.

How would we rate Archimedes of Syracuse, or Diogenes of Sinope?

Also where on the ocean is Greta now?
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: nanning on January 19, 2020, 04:55:11 PM
Dear Rodius, I completely accept that Autistic brains are different.

This is likely my last post about it because I need to be in person with you to make you see all the assumptions and flaws. Not because I say so but because you will agree with me.
Just two things to think over:
-  Was the brain Autistic already before those 1000 days? Or only after it? What does that signify?
-  I am completely outside group behaviour and I am not a grown-up. Don't you think that would influence the way I answer those questions?

There are so many assumptions in the quiz that are unseen and unheeded. It is very tempting to generalize and not take all exceptions into account, but in physics those are the very things that physicsts are interested in, the outliers, to really find meaning and fundamental understanding. I wish you will see the difference.You are who you are, that doesn't change with a label. Please be careful with your view of yourself.
I wonder what R.P.Feynman would have thought of those labels, he was very sharp and eloquent in my view.

edit: added bolding
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: nanning on January 19, 2020, 05:03:13 PM
Thanks for that view kassy.

I wish that Greta is on the Billy Ocean of loverboy ;D.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: SATire on January 19, 2020, 08:41:26 PM
Also where on the ocean is Greta now?
Switzerland. On the way to Davos to tell us, that we have seen nothing from her and FFF so far... If their actions continue to make no effect they will become more radical - just as needed.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Rodius on January 20, 2020, 12:13:43 AM
Dear Rodius, I completely accept that Autistic brains are different.

This is likely my last post about it because I need to be in person with you to make you see all the assumptions and flaws. Not because I say so but because you will agree with me.
Just two things to think over:
-  Was the brain Autistic already before those 1000 days? Or only after it? What does that signify?
-  I am completely outside group behaviour and I am not a grown-up. Don't you think that would influence the way I answer those questions?

There are so many assumptions in the quiz that are unseen and unheeded. It is very tempting to generalize and not take all exceptions into account, but in physics those are the very things that physicsts are interested in, the outliers, to really find meaning and fundamental understanding. I wish you will see the difference.You are who you are, that doesn't change with a label. Please be careful with your view of yourself.
I wonder what R.P.Feynman would have thought of those labels, he was very sharp and eloquent in my view.

Yes, the brain is structured differently before birth. What happens post birth makes no difference to the autistic structure other than what is learned along the way much like a normal brain.

In effect, if an autistic is born an electric bike, it remains an electric bike even though modifications can be made. But it is still an electric bike regardless.
A normal brain is a motor bike. Same principle applies. They are different but still equally adaptable within their respective constraints.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Florifulgurator on January 20, 2020, 04:51:19 AM
[...]
An important tip: stay as far away as possible from complete abstractions or calibrate them to reality.
[...]
"He created the abstract universe"
What does that mean? Abstract means that you cannot measure anything in it? People should stay calibrated in reality with their abstractions and fantasies and not take them too serious as if it has meaning. Humans need to get their fantasies under control in my opinion. Most of our current culture is ultimately based on fantasy.
Oops, I forgot about the very common misunderstanding of "abstract". (Similarly some folks don't understand "theory", e.g. "the greenhouse effect is just a theory".)

My impression is, Greta is not caught in that way of "abstract thinking" you warn of.  She is very capable of handling abstract concepts in the sense that I will try to explain.  Methinks she is an extraordinary creative scientific mind.  She is not the rigid abstractionist (in your sense) that I suspect is more common with "neurotypicals".

Attempt at explanation:
The abstract structures Grothendieck worked out are sort of the common skeleton of diverse mathematical animals.  Like two completely different looking cats turn out exactly the same in an X-ray photo.  Sometimes there is just one mathematical animal with lots of fuzzy fur and flesh.  You abstract that away, down to the skeleton, to better understand the relevant inner working.  Then A.: you put new stuff on that abstract skeleton and arrive at a completely new mathematical animal.  Or B.: having a workable abstraction, you can better understand the weird beast and get new or more precise insights - without getting distracted by irrelevant structure.

Good abstraction is at the core of creative science.

E.g. Einstein arrived at E=mc2 after 1) abstracting things down to the 2 simple and innocent looking axioms of Special Relativity Theory. Then 2) he just "did the math" that followed from 1)


---------------------------------------
P.S.: It might seem grotesque to talk of Greta and Grothendieck in the same text. But it is not just that Florifulgurator enjoys rhymes as much as Pumuckl. E.g. they both had to suffer a challenging childhood.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: nanning on January 21, 2020, 03:43:41 PM
A very strong and beautiful talk by Greta Thunberg in Davos at the W.E.F. 2020 from today:

(11m14)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4FOTcQ3wsE
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Sigmetnow on January 22, 2020, 07:17:13 PM
Greta Thunberg guarantees you won’t forget this number
Quote
"I know you don’t want to report about this. I know you don’t want to talk about this. But I assure you I will continue to repeat these numbers until you do."

Thunberg's central number is 1.5 Celsius. She's even repeated it in front of a rapt crowd of international diplomats at the U.N. Now in 2020, Thunberg hasn't let up. And according to experts in communication, it's a smart way to convince people of the need to slash society's still-rising carbon emissions.

"I think her messaging is dead-on," said Jennifer Marlon, a research scientist at the Yale Program on Climate Change Communication.

Why repeating 1.5 C is smart

The 1.5 Celsius figure comes from the over 600-page "Global Warming at 1.5 C" U.N. report, which brims with statistics and analysis most people haven't read, and probably won't ever read. But "1.5 C" summarizes why the report, authored by 91 scientists citing over 6,000 studies, matters.

Repeating the figure, even if it's somewhat wonky and contains a decimal, makes the number familiar and meaningful to people, similar to a succinct slogan (ex: "Just Do It").

"She's taking climate change, which is often very mathematical and statistical, and messaging it with a slogan," said Mike Allen, a professor in the Department of Communication at the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee. "It reduces a complex issue."

"When something is repeated, it's more likely to be picked up," agreed Jeffrey Jarman, an expert on rhetoric from Wichita State University. "Having these kernels of knowledge out there gives people something to hold on to.

"1.5 degrees [C] is an easy number," he added.

"Repeating is powerful."

Though, Thunberg's message isn't just about repetition. She's combining the number with talking points conveying the ethical need to avoid damaging levels of planetary warming — something people her age are bound to inherit. ...
https://mashable.com/article/greta-thunberg-climate-change-message.amp
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Florifulgurator on January 22, 2020, 07:25:40 PM
From the session incl. Greta I transcribed a bit more than quoted above:
Quote
Since last summer I've been repeating these numbers over and over again in almost every speech. But honestly I dont think I have once seen any media outlet or person in power communicate this - and what it means.
 
I know you dont want to report about this.  I know you dont want to talk about this.

But I assure you I will continue to repeat these numbers until you do.
(There is already a stupid German WELT article out there, who fails exactly at this. Won't link it.)

------------------------------------------
Wow, I didn't expect to spend more than half an hour on Davos 2020...
Right now listening to a session with Jane Goodall, Al Gore, Mishal Husain, Carlos Afonso Nobre, Ivan Duque:
https://youtu.be/9XKm0MUIJQs
In his passionate closing remarks Al Gore almost dwarfs Greta!  8)

Davos 2020 deserves an own thread.

Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: vox_mundi on January 22, 2020, 07:58:01 PM
See https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,2547.msg244923.html#msg244923
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: TerryM on January 23, 2020, 06:37:07 AM
Is 1.50C from pre-industrial even a remote possibility?


I've no doubt that we'll pass through 1.5 well before Greta needs to hide her grey hairs, and probably before she earns a degree.
1.50C may have been built in before Greta was born. That door has closed.


Terry
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: nanning on January 23, 2020, 08:26:54 AM
I agree Terry and have read from scientists that they don't think even +2°C GMST is possible as maximum AGW.
As is written before, one El Niño is maybe all that's required to overshoot the +1.5°C 'goal'. 'We' are not even hitting the brakes. Who are we kidding with this 'goal'? Ourselves.
Well, I personally have trashed my brakes through the floor.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: kassy on January 23, 2020, 02:08:05 PM
It is the number widely used in public discourse. Using any higher number if if more realistic would lead to discussions which distract from the need for action.

Interesting that most papers leave out that part of the speeches....
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: SATire on January 24, 2020, 04:41:32 PM
Is 1.50C from pre-industrial even a remote possibility?


I've no doubt that we'll pass through 1.5 well before Greta needs to hide her grey hairs, and probably before she earns a degree.
1.50C may have been built in before Greta was born. That door has closed.


Terry
Terry - that 1.5 °C goal is the goal, that all countries (minus 3) in the world agreed on to work for in Paris. And then you may read the IPCC special report 1.5°C where the scientist explained in 2018, how that goal could be achieved by the governments: E.g. with negative emissions Gretas generation should be held responsible for somehow - and still some people still do not fully understand why young people are angry now. Plenty very stupid people out there, which are not young... 

Greta was demanding in her school strike, that the Swedish government does what it promised in Paris.

It is very simple. If the governments of all countries of the world (-3) now find it unrealistic to keep their promise it should be also their job to say sorry and agree on something else. But how could a young girl like Greta step in and work out a better political solution? No - it is totally ok if she tells the politicians to do what they promised. There is no reason for her to ask the politicians to change their agreement. Also there is no reason for Greta to come up with any magic idea or whatever. The only solution is: Do not burn any carbon anymore. Take action now.   

Next problem is that the people are not doing what the politicians promised their people would do. Maybe because there are no sanctions and such. But why? There are sanctions against murder, theft, drugs abuse etc. so people know how to deal with such things. Thus there is no excuse. Action can be taken today - ban carbon burning just like the use of heroine.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: kassy on January 24, 2020, 07:18:25 PM
My gap year ends in August, but it doesn’t take a college degree in economics to realise that our remaining 1,5° carbon budget and ongoing fossil fuel subsidies and investments don’t add up.

https://www.unilad.co.uk/news/greta-thunberg-responds-to-us-politician-who-said-she-needs-an-economics-degree/

KISS  :)
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: oren on January 24, 2020, 11:52:03 PM
Quote
Mnuchin said:
Is she the chief economist, or who is she? I’m confused. It’s a joke. After she goes and studies economics in college she can come back and explain that to us.
What a jerk. The idiocy stinks.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: TerryM on January 25, 2020, 12:12:49 AM
SAT


If the Swedish Government (along with the rest of the world including the recalcitrant US of A) does "what it promised in Paris", the UNEP estimates a rise to 3.2 C0 this century.
Jim Hansen called the Paris talks "fraud, with no action, just promises".


We need emission cuts of 7.6% per year from 2020 to 2030 to hold global temperatures to 1.5CO. Will you eschew heating your home this winter?, perhaps pledging to never use the AC next summer would be easier.


If we all walked or rode a bike for the next decade that would help. We wouldn't meet the target, but if everyone did it we'd be closer.


Relying on the magic of negative emissions is much easier, even if not more effective, but it is certainly easier than cutting our personal carbon footprint 7.6% each and every year for the coming decade. Prayer is also easier, and probably just as effective as waiting for negative emissions to rapture us away from the consequences of our unholy reliance on fossil fuel.
Hallelujah, pass the hopeum.


In centuries past great minds contemplated the numbers of angels that could dance on the head of a pin. Today we recognize that angels are a-sexual creatures with no interest in choreography, or needles. We struggle to understand the negative mass that negative emissions must surely possess, always assured that in the near future negative emissions will sweep the CO2 from our heavens as efficiently as our Roomba sweeps feline dander from our pristine parquet.


1.5C0 is a levitating pile of Unobtainium marketed by charlatans that would make David Copperfield blush.
Terry
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Tom_Mazanec on January 25, 2020, 12:43:59 AM
TerryM:
The pin dancing angels was not a debate, it was an illustration of the dogma that angels are noncorporeal and hence have no physical extension so there is no limit to how many could be present on a pin.
Saying it was a serious issue would be like someone on the 25th Century claiming 20th Century physicists were Satanic sadists who wanted to conjure demons to air condition their homes and to poison cats.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Florifulgurator on January 25, 2020, 01:27:47 AM
Will you eschew heating your home this winter?, perhaps pledging to never use the AC next summer would be easier.
Me, to the contrary!

My home heating here in Bavaria is carbon negative.  (Theoretically at least. Right now I'm too lazy to sequester much carbon because it's freezing outside, so I burn most wood to ash instead of harvesting biochar.) My AC in hot summer is also done by my wood kitchen oven plus chimney: It sucks in cold night air. (Yes, it was 25°C at midnight in the kitchen last August when I came home late. So I paradoxically fired up the oven, just a little.)  -- Well, that brutal summer I almost plugged in the electric fridge, as my cool room went up to 15°C and I don't want to use water evaporation cooling as in Yemen or ancient Rome - and my historic cellar is a bit inconvenient (low ceiling, muddy floor, water seeping in, slippery worn out steps down - and it's a 3 doors walk from the kitchen).

(The whole system could be optimized significantly, but it's not my house and it is work to make holes in the walls and dig up the floor to lay air tubes. Also I would need to get a few old computer fans, who need electricity (ca. 5W). )
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: TerryM on January 25, 2020, 03:08:35 AM
^^
With all that you've done to date how are you ever going to be able to lower your footprint by 7.6 percent each year for the next decade? ::)
Terry
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: nanning on January 25, 2020, 08:19:07 AM
Quote from: TerryM
1.5C0 is a levitating pile of Unobtainium marketed by charlatans that would make David Copperfield blush.

Beautiful :).
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: TerryM on January 25, 2020, 11:50:08 AM
^^
Thanks so much!
Terry
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Florifulgurator on January 25, 2020, 06:18:36 PM
^^
With all that you've done to date how are you ever going to be able to lower your footprint by 7.6 percent each year for the next decade? ::)
Terry
Produce more biochar.

My footprint is still far from negative.  But then, given that rate I would soon need to pyrolize a whole forest. Alas the few trees I planted grow painfully slow. :)  So my idea is planting hemp and using pelletized hemp shives.

Until a few years I ago I used to say that the most consequential green action would be suicide (deep in the forest, so they won't find and cremate the corpse).  Meanwhile methinks that's a bad idea, at least in my case. :)

My next plan is to convince a Bavarian pellet oven company to produce the first 21st century pellet oven.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: TerryM on January 25, 2020, 06:28:57 PM
<snipped>

<snipped some more>

Meanwhile methinks that's a bad idea, at least in my case. :)


That's progress!
Terry
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Florifulgurator on January 26, 2020, 02:19:07 AM
<snipped>

<snipped some more>

Meanwhile methinks that's a bad idea, at least in my case. :)


That's progress!
Terry

Back to topic, looks like Greta came to a similar conclusion :)
Martin
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: nanning on February 23, 2020, 04:57:22 PM
Malena Ernman on daughter Greta Thunberg: ‘She was slowly disappearing into some kind of darkness’

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/feb/23/great-thunberg-malena-ernman-our-house-is-on-fire-memoir-extract
  by Malena Ernman
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: blumenkraft on February 23, 2020, 05:44:32 PM
WOW, when i see this picture, i see Greta as the adult. Is this weird...
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Sigmetnow on February 23, 2020, 08:47:40 PM
Greta Thunberg on Twitter: "Heading for the UK! This Friday, the 28th, I’m looking forward to joining the school strike in Bristol! We meet up at College Green 11am! See you there! @bristolYS4C”
https://mobile.twitter.com/gretathunberg/status/1231177354933915649
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Juan C. García on February 24, 2020, 04:18:36 AM
Of course, I think Greta is the one that will win. Naomi will not last long.
I think that denialism is running out of munitions.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2020/02/23/meet-anti-greta-young-youtuber-campaigning-against-climate-alarmism/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2020/02/23/meet-anti-greta-young-youtuber-campaigning-against-climate-alarmism/)
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: NevB on February 24, 2020, 05:23:16 AM
Malena Ernman on daughter Greta Thunberg: ‘She was slowly disappearing into some kind of darkness’

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/feb/23/great-thunberg-malena-ernman-our-house-is-on-fire-memoir-extract
  by Malena Ernman

That's a most extraordinary story, well worth the time to read.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: kassy on February 24, 2020, 01:39:45 PM
She saw what the rest of us did not want to see. It was as if she could see our CO2 emissions with her naked eye. The invisible, colourless, scentless, soundless abyss that our generation has chosen to ignore.

In a way is is shocking that common people are so good at ignoring all that. The masses take everything for granted and it is not just CO2 but consumerism at large, the division of wealth and even democracy.

It´s good that the younger generation is waking up to the fact that they are being screwed over big time.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Neven on February 24, 2020, 05:29:06 PM
Malena Ernman on daughter Greta Thunberg: ‘She was slowly disappearing into some kind of darkness’

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/feb/23/great-thunberg-malena-ernman-our-house-is-on-fire-memoir-extract
  by Malena Ernman

Quote
Svante and Greta have been at the end-of-term ceremony at school where they tried to make themselves invisible in the corridors and stairwells. When students openly point and laugh at you – even though you’re walking alongside your parent – then things have gone too far. Way too far.

Schools, fucking child prisons, brainwashing outfits.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: kassy on February 24, 2020, 06:18:25 PM
Society gets the schools it invests in.

And did all the other parents raise cruel kids or is there something else at play? In school the social game is played in a pressure cooker way. Teachers should be better equipped to handle this but lots of parents do not give a good example.

I hated basic school, loved high school because it was a good one. Still got some shit there but the same happens in office hell or wherever you hang out with people.

The much more important point is the fact that she can not unsee the CO2 while most of us can just forget about that. The other kids switch to shopping in NY and Barcelona.

Basically we do not see our trained behaviour while she does.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: be cause on February 24, 2020, 11:17:05 PM
Never a truer word Neven .. I have encouraged and supported parents home-educating for most of my life . The outcomes have been a joy to behold .. b.c.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: nanning on February 25, 2020, 06:42:19 AM
Quote from: kassy
Basically we do not see our trained behaviour while she does.

That is a very special talent. I have a similar talent but a bit different and of greater scope (I see a.o. social and non-verbal stuff).
I wish that her eyes will further open with time and not get the grown-ups' veil.
Please Greta, don't become a grown-up. You've already learned that not all children are mean and many are bullied just like you. That bullying behaviour is not normal natural for children (humans). It is in part a reaction/adaptation to perceived group behaviour and hierarchy of grown-ups (very toxic). The bullying behaviour is fleeing into a secure group because of fear. Fear of being alone and not belong (and of low hierarchy, unsuccesful). Many children who participate in this are not really bullies but are just too weak and scared to stand on their own. Greta has a lot of courage. Courage that you won't find amongst the bullies. Courage has nothing to do with violence.
... While in tears, Greta swallowed a couple of times and turned back around the corner to face the group of people in front of the houses of parliament. THAT'S COURAGE.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Sigmetnow on February 27, 2020, 04:47:06 PM
Quote
Greta Thunberg (@GretaThunberg) 2/25/20, 12:43 PM
So... today I met my role model. What else can I say? @Malala
https://twitter.com/gretathunberg/status/1232360416375967745
Photo below, another at the link.
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Florifulgurator on February 29, 2020, 08:31:06 PM
La Vagabonde is putting out videos of their Atlantic crossing with Greta and Svante. There isn't that much footage of them, but some nice shots of private Greta every now and then. One video even shows her dancing. The latest one has more Greta, starting with a little interview, and a classic Aspergerish "The soup doesn't smell horrible. Now back to my depressing audio book..." :) .
https://youtu.be/7b6_3BL8jNA
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Florifulgurator on March 05, 2020, 05:06:42 AM
The times, they are changing...
Nope. Not in Germany. We now have the Klimapillepallekanzlerin <snip>
Meanwhile Germany has the "Werteunion" (a conservative "values committee" within the union of Merkel's CDU party and the Barvarian CSU state party) falling prey to the same fossil propaganda as Germany's krypto Nazi AfD party. Stefan Rahmstorf reports: https://scilogs.spektrum.de/klimalounge/das-klimamanifest-2020-der-werte-union/
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Florifulgurator on March 10, 2020, 04:49:27 PM
Meanwhile Greta's Atlantic crossing has a place in history on the same book shelf as Cristopher Columbus 1492.

Funny how Greta's mantra UNITE BEHIND THE SCIENCE gets seriously tested nowadays... Can you feel the Greta Effect in the Dow Jones index? 
:-)

https://youtu.be/9h0tB0RrqQA

Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Florifulgurator on March 11, 2020, 04:51:12 PM
Should Naomi be OT?
She is so hilarious, esp. for Germans. Phantastic BBC interview with deja vu all over = ...
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Sigmetnow on March 14, 2020, 07:57:21 PM
Quote
Young Swedish activist Greta Thunberg is known, among many other things, for her #fridaysforfuture climate-crisis marches that attract thousands of people, week in, week out, all over the world. On Wednesday, Thunberg posted on Twitter that climate activists should stage digital strikes instead of in-person demonstrations to try to contain the spread of the coronavirus.

Thunberg suggested that activists post photos of themselves striking on Fridays with a sign featuring the hashtags #DigitalStrike and #ClimateStrikeOnline.

Thunberg posted:
We young people are the least affected by this virus but it’s essential that we act in solidarity with the most vulnerable and that we act in the best interest of our common society.

So the kids got to work yesterday protesting on Twitter. Here’s a tweet from Kenya….
https://electrek.co/2020/03/14/climate-crisis-weekly-bears-hibernation-warm-greta-thunberg-new-york-city-cycling/
Title: Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
Post by: Florifulgurator on March 24, 2020, 05:50:35 PM
Greta and Svante possibly have Corona.

Quote
The last two weeks I’ve stayed inside. When I returned from my trip around Central Europe I isolated myself (in a borrowed apartment away from my mother and sister) since the number of cases of COVID-19 (in Germany for instance) were similar to Italy in the beginning. Around ten days ago I started feeling some symptoms, exactly the same time as my father - who traveled with me from Brussels. I was feeling tired, had shivers, a sore throat and coughed. My dad experienced the same symptoms, but much more intense and with a fever.
In Sweden you can not test yourself for COVID-19 unless you’re in need of emergent medical treatment. Everyone feeling ill are told to stay at home and isolate themselves.
I have therefore not been tested for COVID-19, but it’s extremely likely that I’ve had it, given the combined symptoms and circumstances.

Now I’ve basically recovered, but - AND THIS IS THE BOTTOM LINE: I almost didn’t feel ill. My last cold was much worse than this! Had it not been for someone else having the virus simultainously I might not even have suspected anything. Then I would just have thought I was feeling unusually tired with a bit of a cough.
And this it what makes it so much more dangerous. Many (especially young people) might not notice any symptoms at all, or very mild symptoms. Then they don’t know they have the virus and can pass it on to people in risk groups.
We who don’t belong to a risk group have an enormous responsibility, our actions can be the difference between life and death for many others.

Please keep that in mind, follow the advice from experts and your local authorities and #StayAtHome to slow the spread of the virus. And remember to always take care of each other and help those in need.
#COVID #flattenthecurve" - Greta Thunberg


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