Arctic Sea Ice : Forum

AGW in general => Consequences => Topic started by: Anne on May 23, 2014, 12:37:40 PM

Title: Water wars
Post by: Anne on May 23, 2014, 12:37:40 PM
There doesn't seem to be a thread on this yet, so here's a horror story to start it off.  The battle has arisen because the city has spread rapidly to subsume a village with its own natural spring, the fresh water from which is needed by everyone.

Quote
Mexico City residents battle police over water

A confrontation between 1,500 police and residents of a village on Mexico City's western outskirts left more than 100 police injured in a battle over a water spring. Three police remained in intensive care Thursday, the city government said, and five people were under arrest.

It was the latest in a series of clashes over increasingly scarce water in the city of 9 million people, which must draw much of its supply from surrounding states.

The city grew so fast between the 1940s and the 1990s that once-independent villages like San Bartolo Ameyalco were swallowed up by the sprawl.

The centuries-old village has a natural water spring which it takes a great deal of pride in.

But Mexico City officials wanted to extend the municipal water system into the village, purportedly to supply underserved areas there.

But many residents suspect the city wants take their spring water to supply the explosive growth of apartment blocks, offices and shopping centers that have sprouted in the upscale developments nearby.

View galleryVillagers listen as community activists speak at a …
Villagers listen as community activists speak at a rally where residents were deciding how to respon …
Residents had managed to block the city's plan for a long time.

"This community has been deeply linked to water ever since it began," community activists wrote in a description of their town, whose name, Ameyalco, means "place where water springs forth" in the Nahuatl Indian language.
And of course commercial interests are implicated because truckers make a living from transporting spring water to other parts of the city.... Read the whole article at the link.
http://news.yahoo.com/mexico-city-residents-battle-police-over-water-144815836.html (http://news.yahoo.com/mexico-city-residents-battle-police-over-water-144815836.html)

This is just one of thousands, many far more serious.
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: Anne on May 23, 2014, 12:44:07 PM
Sorry, I posted this in the wrong section - it would probably go better under Consequences.

[Edit by DungeonMaster : Done]
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: ccgwebmaster on May 23, 2014, 05:26:38 PM
It took me a while to find it from a vague memory of having read it, but this article alludes to the potential for direct conflict within (as opposed to between, which is also a concern) societies over water:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/jul/12/india-water-supply-bhopal (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/jul/12/india-water-supply-bhopal)

It's such a critical resource though - why would one not steal and fight for it, if you had no other choices? Why would a poorer person meekly accept their own death simply due to lack of affluence?
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: RaenorShine on May 23, 2014, 06:35:26 PM
There are a a lot of areas in the world with the potential for inter-nation conflict over water, especially in the Middle East, Central Asia and  Northern Africa.

Wikipedia has a reasonable rundown on this for a start http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_conflict (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_conflict) and highlights several flashpoints.

World Water has a large list of conflicts about water http://worldwater.org/water-conflict/ (http://worldwater.org/water-conflict/)
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: Anne on May 23, 2014, 06:36:06 PM
Thanks for that article - I remember it now. There have been many others and I am certain we've seen nothing yet.

See also this brief article, which covers more than its headline suggests.
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/innovation/is-a-lack-of-water-to-blame-for-the-conflict-in-syria-72513729/?no-ist (http://www.smithsonianmag.com/innovation/is-a-lack-of-water-to-blame-for-the-conflict-in-syria-72513729/?no-ist)

and this very thoughtful one from the Guardian of February this year, which starts off by talking about California before going on to consider world problems.
Quote
(snip)  The Pacific Institute, which studies issues of water and global security, found a fourfold increase in violent confrontations over water over the last decade. "I think the risk of conflicts over water is growing – not shrinking – because of increased competition, because of bad management and, ultimately, because of the impacts of climate change," said Peter Gleick, president of the Pacific Institute.

There are dozens of potential flashpoints, spanning the globe. In the Middle East, Iranian officials are making contingency plans for water rationing in the greater Tehran area, home to 22 million people....
Quote
The chances of countries going to war over water were slim – at least over the next decade, the national intelligence report (http://www.dni.gov/files/documents/Special%20Report_ICA%20Global%20Water%20Security.pdf) said. But it warned ominously: "As water shortages become more acute beyond the next 10 years, water in shared basins will increasingly be used as leverage; the use of water as a weapon or to further terrorist objectives will become more likely beyond 10 years."

Gleick predicted such conflicts would take other trajectories. He expected water tensions would erupt on a more local scale.

"I think the biggest worry today is sub-national conflicts – conflicts between farmers and cities, between ethnic groups, between pastoralists and farmers in Africa, between upstream users and downstream users on the same river," said Gleick.

"We have more tools at the international level to resolve disputes between nations. We have diplomats. We have treaties. We have international organisations that reduce the risk that India and Pakistan will go to war over water but we have far fewer tools at the sub-national level."
There is much more - it's well worth reading the whole article.

and the 16 page US Government paper on Global Water Security referred to in the Guardian article:
http://www.dni.gov/files/documents/Special%20Report_ICA%20Global%20Water%20Security.pdf (http://www.dni.gov/files/documents/Special%20Report_ICA%20Global%20Water%20Security.pdf)
Quote
Our Bottom Line:
During the next 10 years, many countries important to the United States will experience water problems—shortages, poor water quality, or floods—that will risk instability and state failure, increase regional tensions, and distract them from working with the United States on important US policy objectives. Between now and 2040, fresh water availability will not keep up with demand absent more effective management of water resources. Water problems will hinder the ability of key countries to produce food and generate energy, posing a risk to global food markets and hobbling economic growth. As a result of demographic and economic development pressures, North Africa, the Middle East, and South Asia will face major challenges coping with water problems.

Of course people will fight over this resource. My purpose in starting the thread was more by way of flagging it up for discussion. There is a powerful argument for rationing in areas of water stress. Often the stress isn't recognised because the supply comes from a poorer neighbour. Unsuitable crops are still being grown and affluent people are still using water as if it were a limitless resource, regardless of where it comes from.

As we enter a time when it looks as though there will be ever more water in the atmosphere, it is not going to fall where we want it, or when, or in manageable quantities. It seemed as if this issue warranted a thread of its own.
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: JimD on May 26, 2014, 03:38:16 PM
Anne

One of he events which forced the Colorado Water Compact (a disaster which badly needs to be reworked today) was that the states of Arizona and California got so upset with each other over who owned the water in the river they both called out their National Guard troops and it came close to warfare.  Thus forcing the Federal Govt to step in. 

And it is getting worse both long term and short term.   Here at my house in Prescott, AZ we have had only 3 tenths of an inch of rain since the first of Dec last year.  And we are in the dry season now. 
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: Ned W on May 26, 2014, 04:28:24 PM
See also this brief article [about Syria], which covers more than its headline suggests.
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/innovation/is-a-lack-of-water-to-blame-for-the-conflict-in-syria-72513729/?no-ist (http://www.smithsonianmag.com/innovation/is-a-lack-of-water-to-blame-for-the-conflict-in-syria-72513729/?no-ist)
Thanks.  Some other related things:

Hoerling et al (2012) have a paper about increased drought in the Mediterranean region (http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/full/10.1175/JCLI-D-11-00296.1), including the Eastern Mediterranean around Syria.  They report a dramatic increase in drought over the past century, they attribute half of it to warming from greenhouse gases, and they say that models show more drying in this region than any of the other 26 regions studied, over the course of the next century.

Another peer-reviewed paper (http://www.agdevjournal.com/attachments/article/422/JAFSCD-Zurayk-Column-Drought-March-2014.pdf) on "The fatal synergy of war and drought in the eastern Mediterranean".  Quotes:

Quote
The last drought struck Syria between the years 2006 and 2011 ... In the poor hinterlands ... total crop failure caused by the multiyear drought affected up to 75 percent of farmers and herders ... pastoralists lost around 85 percent of their flocks, which were sold at a quarter of their cost. The story was repeated in the rain-fed northeast of the country, as well as in the middle north and in the southwest. This drove millions of small farmers and rural folks into extreme food insecurity; over a million people left the countryside. A survey of drought-affected regions showed that only 10 percent of houses in villages surveyed were occupied, mostly by old people and children ...

The 2006-2011 drought is widely credited by academic and mainstream writers to have catalyzed the insurrections and fed the war ... The areas that were most strongly affected by the drought were also the hotbeds of the insurrection. They are today under the domination of armed groups, some of which are linked to Al Qaeda.

And this is from the popular media, but still interesting. From the first episode (http://www.democracynow.org/2014/4/11/years_of_living_dangerously_james_cameron) of James Cameron's TV series, "The Years of Living Dangerously":

Quote
FATTEN: [translated] We used to own farmland in Syria. The rains were very good. And the land was well watered. And then, suddenly, the drought occurred. The land became like a desert, a salt wasteland. I can’t even describe how terrible it was.

MOHAMMED: [translated] I was around 17. We lost the land. Our way of life changed completely.

THOMAS FRIEDMAN: Have you ever seen anything like that before?

FATTEN: [translated] No. I’d been there for years. This was the first time such a drought happened. The first time. We spoke out about the drought, saying the government must help. But no one gave a damn. Instead, they brought us in for interrogation. And in the end, they detained us for two months.
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: Anne on May 31, 2014, 04:54:39 PM
Withholding water is being used as a weapon in the battle for Syria:
Quote
The Turkish government recently cut off the flow of the Euphrates River, threatening primarily Syria but also Iraq with a major water crisis. Al-Akhbar found out that the water level in Lake Assad has dropped by about six meters, leaving millions of Syrians without drinking water.

Two weeks ago, the Turkish government once again intervened in the Syrian crisis. This time was different from anything it had attempted before and the repercussions of which may bring unprecedented catastrophes onto both Iraq and Syria.

Violating international norms, the Turkish government recently cut off the water supply of the Euphrates River completely. In fact, Ankara began to gradually reduce pumping Euphrates water about a month and half ago, then cut if off completely two weeks ago, according to information received by Al-Akhbar.
Quote
The reservoirs are expected to run out of water completely by tonight or tomorrow morning at the latest.
Meanwhile, water supplies in auxiliary reservoirs in al-Khafsa are close to being depleted and the reservoirs are expected to run out of water completely by tonight or tomorrow morning at the latest. This threatens to leave seven million Syrians without access to water. Also, Tishrin Dam stopped receiving any water which blocked its electricity generating turbines, decreasing the power supply in Aleppo and its countryside, further intensifying the already severe imbalance in the power supply.

In Raqqa, the northern side of Lake Assad is today completely out of service. Two million Syrians living in the region covering the villages of Little Swaydiya to the east until al-Jarniya to the west could lose their drinking water supply. “Losing water supplies in the dam means that the silt in the lake will dry off which would pressure its structure, subjecting it to fissures and eventually total collapse,” Al-Akhbar sources warned, adding “it is crucial to shut down the dam to stop its collapse.”

However, shutting down the dam (if ISIS agrees) will only lead to a human and ecological (zoological and agricultural) catastrophe in Syria and in Iraq.

According to information obtained by Al-Akhbar, Aleppo locals (who had already launched many initiatives to reach solutions for a number of local issues) began a race against time to recommend solutions for the problem, including putting the thermal plant at al-Safira back to work, which may convince ISIS to spare the Euphrates Dam turbines, and in turn preserve current water levels in the lake.

In case it succeeds, such a step would only rescue whatever water and structures are left, and would ward off further repercussions of the crisis that has already started. A halt to the water supply is now inevitable and can’t be resolved unless the Turkish government takes the decision to resume pumping Euphrates water.

More here at Al-Akhbar: Link (http://english.al-akhbar.com/content/new-turkish-aggression-against-syria-ankara-suspends-pumping-euphrates%E2%80%99-water?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+AlAkhbarEnglish+%28Al+Akhbar+English%29)
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: Shared Humanity on May 31, 2014, 09:11:47 PM
I think the importance of this discussion cannot be overstated and I have just caught up with this thread. Having said this, it has triggered a profound depression regarding this topic. Much of the discussions on the Consequence and Policy categories deals with how human civilization will or  ought to react to the challenges we face.

When I read JimD and the near armed conflict that occurred between California and Arizona and the above comment about Turkey using water as a weapon of war with Syria, I begin to fear for this world.

For years I would entertain friends and family as I would argue that recent human evolution is a myth. What we see as evolution, the wonderful technology we have employed to construct this awesome civilization, is not evolution in a biological sense. We are the same basic brutes we were 10,000, 20,000 years ago. The only difference is we know more things, have better toys and more lethal weapons.

I have always enjoyed the outdoors. I go camping regularly and have been in wilderness areas for up to 2 weeks. If you enjoy doing these things and you're ever stuck out in the wilderness, remember what survival experts call 'the Rule of Threes'.

1. You can live 3 minutes without air.
2. You can survive 3 days without water.
3. You can make it 3 weeks without food.

Battles over water can kill vast populations very quickly. Our brutish nature will be our undoing.
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: John_The_Elder on June 01, 2014, 12:07:12 AM
Anne can you verify the source of your information in Post #7? I can not find any mention of this in main stream news.

John
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: Anne on June 01, 2014, 12:29:23 AM
The link is in the post. Al-Akhbar is a Lebanese newspaper.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Akhbar_(Lebanon) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Akhbar_(Lebanon)) You will see from wikipedia an allegation that the paper is an apologist for Assad.

Perhaps we should treat it with caution if it's not been published in any western news source? But western news sources aren't everywhere at once and aren't interested in publishing everything.  They have their own agendas. Not speaking Arabic I'm not able to verify any other source. I should have given a caveat when posting. 
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: Sigmetnow on June 01, 2014, 04:57:03 PM
Not a "war", but an interesting story of Colorado Springs unearthing its namesake water source after half a century.  Will it be usable? 
My worry:  Will it be buried again?

http://blogs.gazette.com/sidestreets/2014/06/01/hope-flows-for-tahama-springs-restoration-despite-tainted-water-tests/ (http://blogs.gazette.com/sidestreets/2014/06/01/hope-flows-for-tahama-springs-restoration-despite-tainted-water-tests/)
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: Daniel on June 02, 2014, 09:12:40 AM
Sao Paolo, Brazil seems to be in trouble too after driest summer since 1930:
Maybe not leading to war but already causing great harm to the poorest. Violent protests (against the World cup) may be fuelled by water shortages.

http://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/sao-paulo-water-shortage-world-cup (http://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/sao-paulo-water-shortage-world-cup)
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: Anne on June 09, 2014, 12:56:16 PM
An earlier thread refers to some studies which may be relevant here:
Re: Influence of climate change on human violence (http://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,483.0.html)

Also, free to view film Blue Gold: World Water Wars (2013)
Quote
SUMMARY:

Wars of the future will be fought over water as they are over oil today, as the source of human survival enters the global marketplace and political arena. Corporate giants, private investors, and corrupt governments vie for control of our dwindling supply, prompting protests, lawsuits, and revolutions from citizens fighting for the right to survive. Past civilizations have collapsed from poor water management. Can the human race survive?

Award-winning featured documentary narrated by Malcolm McDowell. Global Warming is an issue of 'how' we live, the water crisis is an issue of 'if' we live.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1a3tjqQiBI# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1a3tjqQiBI#)
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: Shared Humanity on June 09, 2014, 03:04:28 PM
"Past civilizations have collapsed from poor water management. Can the human race survive?"


The human race can but civilization can't.
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: icefest on June 09, 2014, 03:15:50 PM
Some parts of civilisation will survive. Like the Byzantine Empire survived the Roman, like Chichen Itza survived the 'collapse' of the Mayans.

It's more a question home much/far will collapse and how many will die.
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: Anne on June 09, 2014, 04:06:19 PM
The film linked above (Blue Gold) highlights the pernicious activities of the multinationals who have gained control of the water supply in many countries around the world, sometimes at the behest of the World Bank, and argues for de-privatisation, for local activism and management, for people to learn which watershed they are on, where their drinking water comes from and where their waste water goes, and to grow only crops suitable to the local water supply. If you control your water the water companies will have nothing to sell you.  So long as there is a functioning state there will be tough legal battles all along the way. (And the situation is more complex anyway.) But a community that has control of its water supply stands a better chance of surviving.
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: Laurent on June 13, 2014, 12:56:36 AM
Extremists in Iraq now control the country's rivers
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn25722-extremists-in-iraq-now-control-the-countrys-rivers.html?cmpid=RSS (http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn25722-extremists-in-iraq-now-control-the-countrys-rivers.html?cmpid=RSS)|NSNS|2012-GLOBAL|environment#.U5ouCoZJzlc
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: Laurent on June 18, 2014, 06:09:09 PM
Indian officals order Coca-Cola plant to close for using too much water
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/jun/18/indian-officals-coca-cola-plant-water-mehdiganj (http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/jun/18/indian-officals-coca-cola-plant-water-mehdiganj)
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: RaenorShine on June 19, 2014, 11:04:20 AM
Jeff Masters has a blog on the Syrian civil war

http://www.wunderground.com/blog/JeffMasters/comment.html?entrynum=2703 (http://www.wunderground.com/blog/JeffMasters/comment.html?entrynum=2703)

Quote
Drought in Syria: a Major Cause of the Civil War?
Syria's devastating civil war that began in March 2011 has killed over 200,000 people, displaced at least 4.5 million, and created 3 million refugees. While the causes of the war are complex, a key contributing factor was the nation's devastating 2006 - 2011 drought, one of the worst in the nation's history ........
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: Lynn Shwadchuck on June 21, 2014, 03:32:32 AM
Good idea for a thread, Anne. There's a good report from Ethiopia in Harper's July issue. The journalist put himself in harm's way asking too many questions about the rice fields in the delta at Gambella.

Letter from Gambella — From the July 2014 issue
The Man Who Stole the Nile
An Ethiopian billionaire’s outrageous land grab
By Frederick Kaufman

"The government owns all the land in Ethiopia. They cannot sell it, but they can lease as much of it as they want. By leasing to the Sheikh, the directorate had given Al Amoudi’s food grab the federal stamp of approval. Though the terms of the deal have never been released, the annual price per hectare has been estimated at no more than seven dollars. In Zambia, by comparison, the average hectare leases for about $1,250 a year."

Egypt has repeatedly stopped Ethiopia from damning the White Nile, as recently as 2011. The Sheik is farming rice in the delta at Gambella to sell to Saudi Arabia. In fact, Kaufman talked to a very frightened, but angry man there who was spreading a rumor that the sheik is simply a stooge of the Saudi royal family.

"Each acre of rice requires a million gallons of water a season, which means the Sheikh’s project could eventually suck more than a trillion gallons from the Nile. From November to February, the farm would extract more than 10 percent of the White Nile’s total flow. In a dry year, even more."

Basically sending Ethiopia's (and Egypt's) water to the Saudis in the form of a food commodity – rice.
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: Sigmetnow on June 21, 2014, 09:52:20 PM
"Water war bubbling up between California and Arizona"
So far, just legal rumblings about various water pacts.  For example, how much money might be needed to pay to leave agricultural land fallow, to save water for the many US states dependent on the Colorado River's dwindling flow?

http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-20140620-column.html#page=1 (http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-20140620-column.html#page=1)
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: Laurent on June 24, 2014, 10:55:26 PM
Water, Water Everywhere, Nor Any Drop to Drink....
http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-27978124 (http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-27978124)
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: Sigmetnow on June 29, 2014, 08:08:56 PM
Found this page outlining 100 years of federal and interstate wrangling regarding the Colorado River and the Central Arizona [water] Project.  Apportionment laws seem quite... fluid.

http://www.cap-az.com/index.php/law-of-the-river (http://www.cap-az.com/index.php/law-of-the-river)
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: Anne on July 02, 2014, 06:33:42 PM
More on Turkey shutting down the Euphrates water supply to Syria. I don't know how reliable this news source is, so please treat with caution.
Quote
The water level of the Euphrates Lake has decreased by six metres in the body of the dam, RMC reported.

Criticism of the Turkish government has been voiced by civil society activists in Northern Syria concerning Turkey’s control of the River Euphrates. In recent weeks, the Turks have stopped the flow of water into Syria from the mighty river, which has its source in Turkey’s Taurus Mountains before flowing into Syria and on into Iraq. The Euphrates is the main source of water for the Northern Syrian province of Raqqa.

“This threatens us with a real disaster within the next few days,” said Abu Mohamed, a local activist from Raqqa. He pointed out that half of the villages in the district currently have no water available for residential use or agricultural purposes.
1 July
http://www.globalresearch.ca/water-wars-directed-against-syria-and-iraq-turkeys-control-of-the-euphrates-river/5389357 (http://www.globalresearch.ca/water-wars-directed-against-syria-and-iraq-turkeys-control-of-the-euphrates-river/5389357)

Worth noting that Robert Fisk reporting from Aleppo referred to the shutdown a few days ago in The Independent.
Quote
...Plenty of food since the army broke the siege of Aleppo. No water for six days since the Turks sealed off the watercourse from the dam north of the border. Children and old women carry plastic tubs of the stuff from government-delivered water tanks.
15 June
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/robert-fisk-how-does-tony-blair-get-away-with-his-lies-9538846.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/robert-fisk-how-does-tony-blair-get-away-with-his-lies-9538846.html)
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: Laurent on July 02, 2014, 07:25:55 PM
Water supply key to outcome of conflicts in Iraq and Syria, experts warn
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/jul/02/water-key-conflict-iraq-syria-isis (http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/jul/02/water-key-conflict-iraq-syria-isis)
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: Laurent on July 03, 2014, 08:36:20 PM
Risk of water wars rises with scarcity
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2011/06/2011622193147231653.html (http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2011/06/2011622193147231653.html)
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: Laurent on July 04, 2014, 07:23:08 PM
Iran to spend $500 million to save shrunken Lake Urmia
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn25850-iran-to-spend-500-million-to-save-shrunken-lake-urmia.html?cmpid=RSS (http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn25850-iran-to-spend-500-million-to-save-shrunken-lake-urmia.html?cmpid=RSS)|NSNS|2012-GLOBAL|environment#.U7bhIVFJzlc
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: Laurent on July 16, 2014, 11:43:09 PM
Gaza: Israel bombs water and sewage systems
http://www.theecologist.org/News/news_analysis/2480165/gaza_israel_bombs_water_and_sewage_systems.html (http://www.theecologist.org/News/news_analysis/2480165/gaza_israel_bombs_water_and_sewage_systems.html)
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: Laurent on July 17, 2014, 02:46:53 PM
World's largest hydropower project planned for Tibetan Plateau
https://www.chinadialogue.net/article/show/single/en/6781-World-s-largest-hydropower-project-planned-for-Tibetan-Plateau (https://www.chinadialogue.net/article/show/single/en/6781-World-s-largest-hydropower-project-planned-for-Tibetan-Plateau)

China gives green-light to new era of mega-dams
https://www.chinadialogue.net/blog/5678-China-gives-green-light-to-new-era-of-mega-dams/en (https://www.chinadialogue.net/blog/5678-China-gives-green-light-to-new-era-of-mega-dams/en)

Amid severe drought, Chinese government admits mistakes with Three Gorges Dam
http://www.washingtonpost.com/pb/world/asia-pacific/chinese-government-confronts-reality-of-three-gorges-dam-mistakes/2011/05/30/AGfXx0IH_story.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/pb/world/asia-pacific/chinese-government-confronts-reality-of-three-gorges-dam-mistakes/2011/05/30/AGfXx0IH_story.html)
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: Anne on July 19, 2014, 08:14:56 PM
Ugh. This is awful. Anyone out there able to confirm the truth of this report?
WATER WARS? | Riots, deaths in South Africa
http://www.interaksyon.com/article/91508/water-wars--riots-deaths-in-south-africa (http://www.interaksyon.com/article/91508/water-wars--riots-deaths-in-south-africa)
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: ccgwebmaster on August 03, 2014, 03:06:27 PM
Ugh. This is awful. Anyone out there able to confirm the truth of this report?
WATER WARS? | Riots, deaths in South Africa
http://www.interaksyon.com/article/91508/water-wars--riots-deaths-in-south-africa (http://www.interaksyon.com/article/91508/water-wars--riots-deaths-in-south-africa)

I dunno about truth or not - but it doesn't read as though it's necessarily linked to climate change. The article is more suggestive of growing urban population and increasingly stressed/deficient infrastructure in relation to that.
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: Laurent on September 12, 2014, 08:52:11 AM
Aquifer Is No Quick Fix for Central Texas Thirst
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/12/us/aquifer-is-no-quick-fix-for-central-texas-thirst.html?partner=rss&emc=rss (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/12/us/aquifer-is-no-quick-fix-for-central-texas-thirst.html?partner=rss&emc=rss)
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: Sigmetnow on November 29, 2014, 02:48:34 PM
Quote
Water War Amid Brazil Drought Leads to Fight Over Puddles

Brazil’s Jaguari reservoir has fallen to its lowest level ever, laying bare measurement posts that jut from exposed earth like a line of dominoes. The nation’s two biggest cities are fighting for what little water is left.

Sao Paulo state leaders want to tap Jaguari, which feeds Rio de Janeiro’s main source. Rio state officials say they shouldn’t suffer for others’ mismanagement. Supreme Court judges have summoned the parties to Brasilia for a mediation session this week.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-11-25/water-war-amid-brazil-drought-leads-to-fight-over-puddles.html (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-11-25/water-war-amid-brazil-drought-leads-to-fight-over-puddles.html)
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: Laurent on December 17, 2014, 02:20:03 PM
China’s water diversion project starts to flow to Beijing
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/12/china-water-diversion-project-beijing-displaced-farmers (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/12/china-water-diversion-project-beijing-displaced-farmers)
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: Laurent on December 30, 2014, 11:45:52 AM
Last call of the oasis.
http://www.takepart.com/lastcall (http://www.takepart.com/lastcall)
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: Sigmetnow on December 31, 2014, 01:15:50 AM
The Politics of Drinking-Water.  Historical (mostly U.S.) and current.
http://m.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/12/the-politics-of-drinking-water/384081/ (http://m.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/12/the-politics-of-drinking-water/384081/)
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: Laurent on January 12, 2015, 10:21:11 AM
Plan to divert water from Queensland rivers for coalmines a 'terrible concept'
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/jan/12/plan-to-divert-water-from-queensland-rivers-for-coalmines-a-terrible-concept (http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/jan/12/plan-to-divert-water-from-queensland-rivers-for-coalmines-a-terrible-concept)
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: Laurent on January 19, 2015, 10:33:54 PM
The 10 Most Important Water Stories in 2014
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/peter-h-gleick/the-10-most-important-wat_b_6501692.html?utm_hp_ref=green&ir=Green (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/peter-h-gleick/the-10-most-important-wat_b_6501692.html?utm_hp_ref=green&ir=Green)
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: wili on January 19, 2015, 11:03:21 PM
No mention of Sao Paulo that I could see.
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: Laurent on January 22, 2015, 11:40:54 AM
Call for increased irrigation use in Canterbury
http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/regional/264228/call-for-increased-irrigation-use-in-canterbury (http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/regional/264228/call-for-increased-irrigation-use-in-canterbury)
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: Sigmetnow on January 24, 2015, 01:52:11 AM
World Economic Forum Ranks Water Crises as Top Global Risk
Quote
More than nuclear weapons or a global disease pandemic, impairments to water supplies and punishing cycles of flood, drought, and water pollution are now viewed by heads of state, nonprofit leaders, and chief executives as the most serious threat to business and society.
http://www.circleofblue.org/waternews/2015/world/world-economic-forum-ranks-water-crises-as-top-global-risk/ (http://www.circleofblue.org/waternews/2015/world/world-economic-forum-ranks-water-crises-as-top-global-risk/)
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: Sigmetnow on January 26, 2015, 08:43:08 PM
Lack of Drinking Water Is Killing More People in Nigeria Than Boko Haram
Quote
The lack of running water killed more people in Nigeria last year than Boko Haram.

While the terror campaign claimed more than 4,000 lives, the shortage of potable water and poor sanitation led to about 73,000 deaths, according to WaterAid, a London-based nonprofit.

The water deficit isn’t limited to isolated areas in the country’s vast north. In Lagos, about 15 million of the coastal metropolis’ 21 million have limited access to piped water.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2015-01-26/nigerian-water-shortage-is-bigger-killer-than-boko-haram-cities.html (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2015-01-26/nigerian-water-shortage-is-bigger-killer-than-boko-haram-cities.html)
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: Sigmetnow on January 30, 2015, 07:55:47 PM
Knowing, and lessening, the "water footprint" of what you buy will likely become the next big movement.
Stephen Leahy researched the topic for his new book.
Quote
The water footprint of 500ml of bottled water is 5.5 litres: 0.5 for the water in the bottle and another five contaminated in the process of making the plastic bottle from oil. The five litres consumed in making the bottle are as real water as the 500ml you might drink but hardly anyone in business or government accounts for it.
http://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2014/dec/08/water-amounts-incredible-valuable-oil-scarcity (http://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2014/dec/08/water-amounts-incredible-valuable-oil-scarcity)
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: Shared Humanity on January 31, 2015, 03:45:11 PM
The five litres consumed in making the bottle are as real water as the 500ml you might drink but hardly anyone in business or government accounts for it.

It is this kind of quote that kind of irritates me. Businesses account for everything and I can assure Stephen that the businesses that are in the production stream to produce that bottle of water have accounted for every cost and as long as they can make a profit, and the profits in the bottled water industry are huge, they will make the product.

The solutions to many of these problems are for the consumer to account for it. Disregarding the leaching of BPA, an endocrine disrupter, into the bottled water, tap water is essentially free in comparison.

Do you want companies to quit making bottled water? Stop buying it.

I work at a community college in the Chicago area. Throughout all of the campus buildings, they have drinking fountains that include dispensing locations for filling glasses and bottles. The one I use is just adjacent to a vending area that sells,you guessed it, bottled water for $1.00 per bottle. You can find a vending machine employee adding bottled water to the machine every day.

WTF?????

Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: Sigmetnow on February 04, 2015, 10:14:12 PM
California:
Quote
Imperial County and the Imperial Irrigation District announced a settlement in a long-running legal battle Tuesday, ending 12 years of litigation over a water transfer deal and its effects on the shrinking Salton Sea.
http://www.desertsun.com/story/news/environment/2015/02/03/qsa-settlement-imperial-county/22829969/ (http://www.desertsun.com/story/news/environment/2015/02/03/qsa-settlement-imperial-county/22829969/)
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: Laurent on February 22, 2015, 04:23:54 PM
Beneath the Surface, Our Waters are in Trouble... (UK)
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/rose-oneill/our-waters-are-in-trouble_b_6677976.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/rose-oneill/our-waters-are-in-trouble_b_6677976.html)
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: Shared Humanity on February 22, 2015, 06:19:14 PM
California:
Quote
Imperial County and the Imperial Irrigation District announced a settlement in a long-running legal battle Tuesday, ending 12 years of litigation over a water transfer deal and its effects on the shrinking Salton Sea.
http://www.desertsun.com/story/news/environment/2015/02/03/qsa-settlement-imperial-county/22829969/ (http://www.desertsun.com/story/news/environment/2015/02/03/qsa-settlement-imperial-county/22829969/)

I believe that, given the monumental challenges confronting us as a result of AGW, officials need to think bigger then planting grass on the shores. If they want to preserve the Salton Sea ecosystem and Laguna Salada to the south in Mexico, both of which are highly saline seas (far more saline  than the ocean) that sit below sea level, they should begin construction of a canal from the Gulf of California that connects first Laguna Salada and then later, the Salton Sea. They  could control the amount of water that flows in from the gulf so as not to flood the entire Salton Sea basin which sits below sea level. Let more water flow in during dry times. restrict flow in wet periods. This would have the effect of lowering saline levels as well.
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: JimD on February 23, 2015, 06:30:55 PM
To play the devils advocate a bit here.

Given the scale of our problems is there any real likelyhood we won't just punt on this?  Won't we be overcome by so many other problems which are worse and more pressing and just let this slide?  Is this not the path we are on where we will just have to let most festering problems fester?

We do not have the wealth to rebuild our infrastructure, nor the will to reduce our population, nor the intelligence to reduce our standards of living.

The drying out of the southwest would perhaps make this a moot point in any case.  Thirty more years of drought and there will be no Salton Sea anyway?
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: ritter on February 23, 2015, 07:37:29 PM
The Salton Sea is the result of a man-made oops. There was no historical era "sea" there before we started monkeying with the Colorado River.
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: JimD on February 24, 2015, 04:10:24 PM
The Salton Sea is the result of a man-made oops. There was no historical era "sea" there before we started monkeying with the Colorado River.

More please. A gap in my understanding appears again :)
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: Jester Fish on February 24, 2015, 07:44:46 PM
From Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salton_Sea (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salton_Sea) :

"The modern sea was accidentally created by the engineers of the California Development Company in 1905. In an effort to increase water flow into the area for farming, irrigation canals were dug from the Colorado River into the valley. Due to fears of silt buildup, a cut was made in the bank of the Colorado River to further increase the water flow. The resulting outflow overwhelmed the engineered canal, and the river flowed into the Salton Basin for two years, filling the historic dry lake bed and creating the modern sea, before repairs were completed."

That said, the area now referred to as the Salton Sea is actually the northern extent of the Gulf of California and was cutoff from the sea by Colorado River deposition (alluvial fan).  Not to worry- sea level rise will reclaim it unless we do something stupid like build a dike - which the irrigation district and landowners will likely clamor for - assuming there is still water to irrigate with....
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: icefest on February 24, 2015, 09:32:39 PM
Why do you want to refill the salton sea? AFAIR there was little lake effect precipitation due to it anyway?


There's been suggestions like this in the past regarding filling of Australia's central desert with water, but it was decided that there would be little economic benefit.

Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: ritter on February 24, 2015, 09:39:09 PM
The Salton Sea is the result of a man-made oops. There was no historical era "sea" there before we started monkeying with the Colorado River.

More please. A gap in my understanding appears again :)

Jester Fish beat me to it. And as he indicates, most areas on Earth, including the Salton Sea, were covered in water if one goes back in time far enough. But the Salton Sea in the historic era is  a man-made water body. Western water is really complicated stuff!
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: Laurent on February 25, 2015, 11:33:12 AM
Changing the Way We Think About Water: Q&A With Peter Gleick
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mark-tercek/changing-the-way-we-think-about-water_b_6746816.html?utm_hp_ref=green&ir=Green (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mark-tercek/changing-the-way-we-think-about-water_b_6746816.html?utm_hp_ref=green&ir=Green)
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: JimD on February 25, 2015, 05:46:54 PM
The Salton Sea is the result of a man-made oops. There was no historical era "sea" there before we started monkeying with the Colorado River.

More please. A gap in my understanding appears again :)

Jester Fish beat me to it. And as he indicates, most areas on Earth, including the Salton Sea, were covered in water if one goes back in time far enough. But the Salton Sea in the historic era is  a man-made water body. Western water is really complicated stuff!

Very interesting!

On an optimistic note.  At least sea level rise will solve one problem :)
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: Sigmetnow on February 25, 2015, 08:39:27 PM
Why do you want to refill the salton sea? AFAIR there was little lake effect precipitation due to it anyway?


There's been suggestions like this in the past regarding filling of Australia's central desert with water, but it was decided that there would be little economic benefit.
In a word:  Dust.
From the article:
Quote
In a recent report, the Pacific Institute projected that without action to address the Salton Sea’s deterioration, the long-term social and economic costs — in higher health care costs, lower property values and other costs — could range between $29 billion and $70 billion over the next 30 years. The organization estimated that as the lake shrinks, as much as 150 square miles of lake bed is likely to be exposed, giving off large amounts of dust.

In its current form, the Salton Sea was created between 1905 and 1907, when the Colorado River broke through irrigation canals and flooded into the basin. The lake has since been sustained by agricultural runoff, but it has recently been shrinking and growing saltier, threatening millions of fish.

State and federal officials plan to build wetlands along portions of the dry shorelines to preserve habitat for fish and birds and to help control dust.

But those projects will cover up only a tiny fraction of the exposed lake bed. The Imperial Irrigation District has for the past year been promoting a plan to develop more geothermal energy plants near the Salton Sea. The agency, which owns portions of the lake bed, proposes to generate money through leases and use the funds for dust control projects.
http://www.desertsun.com/story/news/environment/2015/02/03/qsa-settlement-imperial-county/22829969/ (http://www.desertsun.com/story/news/environment/2015/02/03/qsa-settlement-imperial-county/22829969/)
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: icefest on February 28, 2015, 10:06:12 AM
Was there as much dust before the creation of the salton sea?
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: jbatteen on February 28, 2015, 03:10:23 PM
I'm not sure but I imagine so.  The entire desert southwest region is prone to dust storms when the wind kicks up.
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: Tor Bejnar on February 28, 2015, 07:24:51 PM
A desert that has been a desert for a long time has fairly little available dust to blow around as silt and clay sized particles are blown away (to wetter places) and get replenished fairly slowly.  A "new" desert, such as a dry lake bed that recently had water will have a great deal of silt and clay sized particles to get picked up by the wind.  Because of 20th century agricultural practices, there may be extra toxins in new lake bed sediments.  North Africa sends a great amount of fine grained particles (silt and clay sized 'dust') to the Atlantic and the Americas (recent study of African duest in the Amazon http://www.nature.com/news/2010/100809/full/news.2010.396.html (http://www.nature.com/news/2010/100809/full/news.2010.396.html)); I wonder how much of this has to do with agricultural practices and how much this has to do with the vast source area and the extreme shifts between (short) wet and (long) dry seasons in the Sahel. Quote from article:
Quote
The basin, known as the Bodélé depression, is the site of a once-massive lake in Chad. Bodélé is thought to be the dustiest place on Earth.

I grew up in New Mexico (and studied geology) and know there is plenty of dust to go around, even in areas 'disturbed' only by grazing, but dry agricultural fields and recently dried lake beds offer more than 'plenty'!  (Sand dunes, for example, are mostly sand, and wind mostly only tumbles the grains, rather than making 'dust clouds'.)  the Dust Bowl (Midwest USA in 1930s) got its name from the sand, silt and dust blowing off dry recently plowed fields.

Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: solartim27 on February 28, 2015, 08:20:17 PM
Incredible show that shows how people interact with nature.  The episode titled Water has very dramatic video of the shrinkage of the Aral Sea to 1/10th of it's size.

http://video.pbs.org/program/earth-new-wild/ (http://video.pbs.org/program/earth-new-wild/)
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: jbatteen on March 01, 2015, 01:51:25 AM
I just watched that over the air the other night solartim27.  It's a great episode!  Definitely recommend you watch it if you have time.
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: Sigmetnow on March 02, 2015, 10:14:45 PM
Greg Laden writes about Peter Gleick's paper and the "Hydraulic Hypothesis”.  Trading in different types of food should take into account the amount of water required to produce it. 
(Also: Vulcans. :D)
Quote
Thousands of years of technological adaptation and cultural evolution to address the problem of growing grains and orchards in dry country together with modern technology to the extent it has been applied have been insufficient to allow the system to continue in some localities, and everything we know about climate change strongly suggests that this is going to get worse, eventually encompassing the entire region.
http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2015/03/02/the-hydraulic-hypothesis-and-the-end/ (http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2015/03/02/the-hydraulic-hypothesis-and-the-end/)
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: LRC1962 on March 02, 2015, 10:46:38 PM
This is a Doc about who thinks they own water, and of course the ones who are the poorest get the priviledge to pay the highest percentage of their income. Unfortunately the "owners"  have failed to read and understand history. If you oppress people enough so that they have no other options, they "owners" may discover they have grabbed a snake from the wrong end.
It is a long one called 'A World Without Water', but well worth every minute.
http://youtu.be/egtKx24dat8 (http://youtu.be/egtKx24dat8)
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: Laurent on April 05, 2015, 09:31:10 PM
This City Could Become The Next Detroit
http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2015/04/04/3642935/baltimore-water-shutoffs/ (http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2015/04/04/3642935/baltimore-water-shutoffs/)
Quote
Starting this week, 25,000 households in Baltimore will suddenly lose their access to water for owing bills of $250 or more, with very little notice given and no public hearings.
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: Laurent on April 14, 2015, 09:48:04 AM
Damming Tibet: China's destruction of Tibet's rivers, environment and people
http://www.theecologist.org/News/news_analysis/2828701/damming_tibet_chinas_destruction_of_tibets_rivers_environment_and_people.html (http://www.theecologist.org/News/news_analysis/2828701/damming_tibet_chinas_destruction_of_tibets_rivers_environment_and_people.html)
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: Laurent on April 19, 2015, 05:58:37 PM
Our public water future - closing out the corporate profiteers
http://www.theecologist.org/News/news_analysis/2834139/our_public_water_future_closing_out_the_corporate_profiteers.html (http://www.theecologist.org/News/news_analysis/2834139/our_public_water_future_closing_out_the_corporate_profiteers.html)

Quote
Private water companies have never been more aggressive in their sabotaging of efforts to 'make water public', writes Satoko Kishimoto, with legal threats and challenges launched under 'free trade' agreements. But as citizens worldwide reject corporate water profiteering, the trend of water re-municipalisation has gathered unstoppable momentum.

TTIP won't stop public services being run for ordinary people? Tell that to Argentina
http://www.theecologist.org/blogs_and_comments/commentators/2834004/ttip_wont_stop_public_services_being_run_for_ordinary_people_tell_that_to_argentina.html (http://www.theecologist.org/blogs_and_comments/commentators/2834004/ttip_wont_stop_public_services_being_run_for_ordinary_people_tell_that_to_argentina.html)

Quote
Now it's Argentines turn to be sued in a secret 'free trade' court run by the World Bank, writes Nick Dearden. After bringing a profiteering water company that was missing all its service and quality targets back into public ownership, the country has been ordered to pay $405 million 'compensation'.
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: JimD on July 22, 2015, 12:42:36 AM
And....Organized crime.  Of course!

Quote
Down by the sandy banks of the Yamuna River, the men must work quickly. At a little past 12 a.m. one humid night in May, they pull back the black plastic tarp covering three boreholes sunk deep in the ground along the waterway that traces Delhi’s eastern edge. From a shack a few feet away, they then drag thick hoses toward a queue of 20-odd tanker trucks idling quietly with their headlights turned off. The men work in a team: While one man fits a hose’s mouth over a borehole, another clambers atop a truck at the front of the line and shoves the tube’s opposite end into the empty steel cistern attached to the vehicle’s creaky frame.

“On kar!” someone shouts in Hinglish into the darkness; almost instantly, his orders to “switch it on” are obeyed. Diesel generators, housed in nearby sheds, begin to thrum. Submersible pumps, installed in the borehole’s shafts, drone as they disgorge thousands of gallons of groundwater from deep in the earth. The liquid gushes through the hoses and into the trucks’ tanks.

Within 15 minutes, the 2,642-gallon (10,000-liter) containers on the first three rigs are full. The pumps are switched off briefly as drivers move their now-heavy trucks forward and another trio takes their place. The routine is repeated again and again through the night until every tanker is brimming with water.

The full trucks don’t wait around. As the hose team continues its work, drivers nose down a rutted dirt path until they reach a nearby highway. There, they turn on their lights and pick up speed, rushing to sell their bounty. They go to factories and hospitals, malls and hotels, apartments and hutments across this city of 25 million.

Everything about this business is illegal: the boreholes dug without permission, the trucks operating without permits, the water sold without testing or treatment. “Water work is night work,” says a middle-aged neighbor who rents a house near the covert pumping station and requested anonymity. “Bosses arrange buyers, labor fills tankers, the police look the other way, and the muscle makes sure that no one says nothing to nobody.” Tonight, that muscle—burly, bearded, and in tight-fitting T-shirts—has little to do: Sitting near the trucks, the men are absorbed in a game of cards. At dawn, the crew switches off the generators, stows the hoses in the shack from which they came, and places the tarp back over the boreholes. Few traces of the night’s frenetic activity remain.......

http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/07/17/at-the-mercy-of-the-water-mafia-india-delhi-tanker-gang-scarcity/ (http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/07/17/at-the-mercy-of-the-water-mafia-india-delhi-tanker-gang-scarcity/)
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: JimD on August 17, 2015, 06:26:39 PM
If this occurs it actually 'is' justification for war.  Not to mention it could be considered an act of genocide as it could easily cause the deaths of large numbers of people.  The Vietnamese produce a lot of food and much of that would be lost.

Quote
The Mekong Delta is Vietnam's most important agricultural area. Each year, the area produces the most rice and fruit in the country. This region also nurtures many freshwater fish species, which are an important source of protein for local people.

However, this key food production could be jeopardised by large water management projects upriver, Vietnamese experts have warned.

Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha voiced plans to use water from the Mekong and Salween rivers to fill dams that have run low because of drought and poor water management. But the PM's remarks have caused shockwaves in the Mekong Delta, which would be directly affected if such a project was to go ahead.......

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Vietnamese-plea-to-Thailand-Dont-divert-the-Mekong-30266710.html (http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Vietnamese-plea-to-Thailand-Dont-divert-the-Mekong-30266710.html)
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: oren on August 18, 2015, 01:41:30 PM
If this occurs it actually 'is' justification for war.  Not to mention it could be considered an act of genocide as it could easily cause the deaths of large numbers of people.  The Vietnamese produce a lot of food and much of that would be lost.

Quote
The Mekong Delta is Vietnam's most important agricultural area. Each year, the area produces the most rice and fruit in the country. This region also nurtures many freshwater fish species, which are an important source of protein for local people.

However, this key food production could be jeopardised by large water management projects upriver, Vietnamese experts have warned.

Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha voiced plans to use water from the Mekong and Salween rivers to fill dams that have run low because of drought and poor water management. But the PM's remarks have caused shockwaves in the Mekong Delta, which would be directly affected if such a project was to go ahead.......

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Vietnamese-plea-to-Thailand-Dont-divert-the-Mekong-30266710.html (http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Vietnamese-plea-to-Thailand-Dont-divert-the-Mekong-30266710.html)

Come to think of it, all nations downstream of major rivers coming from elsewhere are at very significant risk in the coming decades.
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: Sigmetnow on August 29, 2015, 08:55:03 PM
Middle East faces ‘extreme’ water stress by 2040
Quote
About one-fifth of all countries will experience chronic water scarcity by 2040, with the Middle East the worst affected, according to a report.

http://www.rtcc.org/2015/08/27/middle-east-faces-extreme-water-shortages-by-2040/ (http://www.rtcc.org/2015/08/27/middle-east-faces-extreme-water-shortages-by-2040/)
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: Sigmetnow on August 30, 2015, 03:39:46 PM
EPA Moves Ahead With Water Protection Rule Despite Court Ruling
http://www.nbcnews.com/science/environment/epa-moves-ahead-water-protection-rule-despite-court-ruling-n418066 (http://www.nbcnews.com/science/environment/epa-moves-ahead-water-protection-rule-despite-court-ruling-n418066)
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: Anne on April 11, 2016, 04:52:55 PM
The Rain Barrel Is Only the Beginning of the West’s Water Wars
Colorado is about to let residents collect rainwater, but the debate is far from over.
What happens when there isn't enough water to go round?
Quote
More than three-quarters of the Western population live in cities, which are expected to grow by over 10 million people over the next 30 years. Farmers are rightly wary that urban centers will hold increasing sway over the region’s scarce water. Prior appropriation (http://www.npr.org/programs/atc/features/2003/aug/water/part3.html) is a lifeline to traditional livelihoods like farming, but agricultural areas in Colorado are already facing a strain on water sources: There’s not enough water to divvy among all residents with legal claims. By 2030, Colorado is expected to have a water shortfall of 118,00 acre feet (one acre foot is enough water for a family of four for one year).

With the new Colorado law, rain barrels may provide some relief where Western tributaries cannot. The Colorado River, one of the most critical water sources in the West, supplies water to 30 million people. But climate change, in the form of rising temperatures, has reduced flows in recent years. These changes will continue to reduce water accessibility in the Upper Colorado River Basin, which encompasses parts of Wyoming, Utah, Colorado, Arizona, and New Mexico. According to environmental law professor A. Dan Tarlock, prior appropriation “may be further undermined by the uncertainties of the regional and watershed impacts of global climate change.” Kenney, though, doesn’t see prior appropriation going away any time soon, even in areas where water is even scarcer, like California. “If that drought were to continue another year or two and the cities were to get really desperate, then maybe some reforms that people always assumed were totally inviolable, then maybe they become possible,” he said. “I just don’t see it happening.”

Colorado is just now catching up to other states that have incorporated progressive rain conservation with prior appropriation. Arizona allows rainwater catchment, and since 2008 Tucson has required it for new commercial projects. New Mexico offers incentives for rainwater catchment. Washington legalized barrels in 2009 and Utah in 2010.

“If every little reform is going to be that big of a fight, then we have problems,” Kenney said. “You can’t spend years fighting over rain barrels.”

Full story and links to citations here: https://newrepublic.com/article/132478/rain-barrel-beginning-wests-water-wars (https://newrepublic.com/article/132478/rain-barrel-beginning-wests-water-wars)
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: AbruptSLR on June 27, 2016, 11:39:51 PM
The linked reference discusses newly documented deep groundwater sources in California's Central Valley.  If used wisely this could help with drought conditions; if used unwisely exploiting this resource could damage the environment, infrastructure and might constitute inter-generational theft associate with "Tyranny of the Contemporary":

Mary Kang and Robert B. Jackson (June 2016), "Salinity of deep groundwater in California: Water quantity, quality, and protection", PNAS, doi: 10.1073/pnas.1600400113


http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2016/06/21/1600400113 (http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2016/06/21/1600400113)

Significance
Groundwater withdrawals are increasing across the United States, particularly in California, which faces a growing population and prolonged drought. Deep groundwater aquifers provide an alternative source of fresh and saline water that can be useable with desalination and/or treatment. In the Central Valley alone, fresh groundwater volumes can be increased almost threefold, and useable groundwater volumes can be increased fourfold if we extend depths to 3,000 m. However, some of these deep groundwater resources are vulnerable to contamination from oil/gas and other human activities. Our findings provide the first estimates, to our knowledge, of underground sources of drinking water depths and volumes in California and show the need to better characterize and protect deep groundwater aquifers.

Abstract
Deep groundwater aquifers are poorly characterized but could yield important sources of water in California and elsewhere. Deep aquifers have been developed for oil and gas extraction, and this activity has created both valuable data and risks to groundwater quality. Assessing groundwater quantity and quality requires baseline data and a monitoring framework for evaluating impacts. We analyze 938 chemical, geological, and depth data points from 360 oil/gas fields across eight counties in California and depth data from 34,392 oil and gas wells. By expanding previous groundwater volume estimates from depths of 305 m to 3,000 m in California’s Central Valley, an important agricultural region with growing groundwater demands, fresh [<3,000 ppm total dissolved solids (TDS)] groundwater volume is almost tripled to 2,700 km3, most of it found shallower than 1,000 m. The 3,000-m depth zone also provides 3,900 km3 of fresh and saline water, not previously estimated, that can be categorized as underground sources of drinking water (USDWs; <10,000 ppm TDS). Up to 19% and 35% of oil/gas activities have occurred directly in freshwater zones and USDWs, respectively, in the eight counties. Deeper activities, such as wastewater injection, may also pose a potential threat to groundwater, especially USDWs. Our findings indicate that California’s Central Valley alone has close to three times the volume of fresh groundwater and four times the volume of USDWs than previous estimates suggest. Therefore, efforts to monitor and protect deeper, saline groundwater resources are needed in California and beyond.



Also see:
http://www.climatecentral.org/news/water-windfall-drought-stricken-california-20481 (http://www.climatecentral.org/news/water-windfall-drought-stricken-california-20481)

Extract: "California’s Central Valley has three times more freshwater in underground aquifers than previously thought, drinking water that could help the state weather future drought and fortify itself against a changing climate, according to a new Stanford University study.
But tapping that water, locked thousands of feet beneath the ground, will be expensive and comes with an enormous risk  — it could cause the valley floor to sink, according to the study, published Monday in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. Sinking land in the Central Valley is threatening roads, homes and other infrastructure, and reduces the amount of water some aquifers can hold.

...

“We're not advocating running out and drilling lots more groundwater wells,” Jackson said. “The Central Valley's been in denial about groundwater overdrafts for years. We need to consider ground subsidence. We also need to think about oil and gas activities directly in and around freshwater aquifers. Is that the best use of the resource long term?”

California’s water agency, the State Department of Water Resources, is concerned about the long-term implications of possibly using — and using up — a newly found reserve of freshwater.

“Understanding the total aquifer capacity is valuable from a technical standpoint, but a more useful estimate would be how much of the aquifer can we truly utilize before we experience significant impacts to surrounding agricultural, urban and domestic water users, to public infrastructures, to the environment and to the aquifers’ ability to recharge in a reasonable time frame,” said Lauren Hersh, spokeswoman for the California Department of Water Resources’ Sustainable Groundwater Management Program."
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: Sigmetnow on July 12, 2016, 12:26:36 AM
A plan is being developed to voluntarily reduce water allocations from the Colorado River to Arizona, Nevada, California and Mexico. They hope to have it in place in time to avoid steeper, mandatory cuts that could begin as soon as 2018.

Facing historically low levels, Lake Mead officials are fending off a water war. Here's how
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-sej-colorado-river-20160703-snap-story.html (http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-sej-colorado-river-20160703-snap-story.html)
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: sidd on October 03, 2018, 12:52:37 AM
Skirmishes on the edges of the largest battleground to come:

" withdrawals from Lake Superior and its four sister lakes are regulated by a hard-won eight-state protective agreement called the Great Lakes Compact and a companion document that provides oversight in Ontario and Quebec."

"  the compact, aimed at keeping Great Lakes water in the Great Lakes, was approved by the legislatures of all eight states bordering the Great Lakes, Congress and the Canadian provinces and signed into law by President George W. Bush on Oct. 3, 2008."

"prohibits new or increased diversions outside the Great Lakes basin with limited exceptions for communities and counties that straddle the basin boundary"

"The lakes are the largest system of fresh surface water on Earth. They hold 84 percent of North America’s surface fresh water and about 21 percent of the world’s supply"

"‘Wait a minute folks, you’ve got 20 percent of the world’s freshwater? Why would you be able to contain and restrict it in the manner that you have?"

“It’s a nice law,” Hall says, “but it’s just a law.”

https://truthout.org/articles/can-the-great-lakes-continue-to-fend-off-an-increasingly-thirsty-world/

sidd
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: bligh8 on October 09, 2018, 04:01:01 PM
Yup....all that fresh water and still we have Flint.
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: sidd on October 12, 2018, 05:24:06 AM
"a neighbor, age 86, beat her husband, 82, with a shovel."

When they pick up guns, it gets serious. Whiskey's for drinkin, and water's for fightin.

https://cronkitenews.azpbs.org/2018/10/08/water-thieves-sherriff-deputy-montezuma-county-colorado/

sidd
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: bligh8 on October 19, 2018, 04:43:16 PM
Tri-State Water Wars (AL, GA, FL)

"Advocating for the Long-Term Health of Two Major River Basins
For decades, Georgia, Alabama, and Florida have been battling over the future allocation of water in two major river basins that cross their borders (the Alabama-Coosa-Tallapoosa and the Apalachicola-Chattahoochee-Flint basins).  The dispute has involved several local, state and federal agencies, as well as numerous courts and mediators, and its outcome is one of the most important environmental issues facing the region today.
Each state has its own concerns about the proper allocation of water"

https://www.southernenvironment.org/cases-and-projects/tri-state-water-wars-al-ga-fl



Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: sidd on November 04, 2018, 11:47:26 PM
Poisoned waters: 3M poisons its home town

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2018-3M-groundwater-pollution-problem/

sidd
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: sidd on November 05, 2018, 09:41:10 PM
First we took their land. Now we take their water:

" ... the water-saving plan favored by Pinal farmers is not only unfair, but will cost the tribe close to $200 million. Plus, it will slow the tribe’s efforts to heal its own agriculture economy, one wiped out 150 years ago when its water was “stolen” by non-Indian farmers living upstream, Lewis said."

" ... the historical diversions of the Gila River carried out by non-Indian farmers upstream, in the late 1800s and early 1900s, that stripped the tribe of the river’s water and its agricultural heritage ..."

“Is this their version of vengeance?”

" “We see ourselves as a moral conscience in this overall discussion,” Lewis said. "

Read the whole thing. Next we'll take away their air.

https://tucson.com/news/local/colorado-river-drought-plan-jeopardized-by-pinal-county-water-battle/article_0daa298e-2d74-56c3-b6e6-6f233188b57a.html

sidd
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: sidd on November 30, 2018, 01:05:06 AM
Surprise ! Ferguson et al. find a lot less potable than previously thought in the USA:

"Fresh-brackish transitions occur at relatively shallow depths of just a few hundred meters, particularly in eastern US basins. We conclude that fresh groundwater is less abundant in several key US basins than previously thought"

"Based on the average depth to the transition between fresh and brackish groundwater of 550 m found here, compared to the greater depths of 1000–2000 m used in previous global groundwater assessments [28–30], there is substantially less fresh groundwater than previously estimated. Further, because shallow (<100–200 m) groundwaters tend to be comprised disproportionately of recently recharged waters, a fraction of these shallow fresh groundwaters contain contaminants derived from the intensive use of land over the past ∼100 years [31]"

open access. check it out.

doi: 10.1088/1748-9326/aae6d8

coverage at

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/11/181128141856.htm

sidd
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: vox_mundi on January 02, 2019, 07:27:29 PM
Jordan To Drill Fossil Water Wells a Half-Mile Underground – “After This, We Are Out of Options”
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/jordan-drill-fossil-water-wells-half-mile-underground-n930426

Quote
Jordan has struggled with its water supply for decades. The arid nation receives roughly 20 days of rain per year and climate change is making conditions worse just as water demands from the growing population increase.

Quote
...  the rainy season appears to be getting shorter and now starts in mid-November instead of September... “The amount of rain, it’s declined in the last 10 years. This is climate change, it is fact.”

At the center of the government's efforts to obtain more of this precious resource is a patch of desert swirling with dust devils about 32 miles south of Amman.

Seven new wells are scheduled to be built here to tap the Disi, a deep aquifer that contains so-called fossil water that accumulated 10,000 to 30,000 years ago. It's the last source of fresh groundwater for the country, experts say.

The Disi is vast, extending from Jordan through Saudi Arabia. Wells near the border, where the water is not as deep, have depleted it since the 1980s, reducing its expected lifespan from 100 years to about 50.

"After this, we are out of options," said Marwan Al-Raggad, a hydrogeology professor at the University of Jordan.
Quote
... “It means huge energy is needed to extract this water,” said Ali Subah, general secretary of Jordan's water and irrigation ministry. “It will be expensive.”

Specialized drills and equipment are required to access the water, Subah said. A treatment facility and complex series of pipelines and pumping stations are also required to elevate the water from at least 3,281 feet underground to Amman, which is 3,084 feet above sea level.

It’s a technically challenging and expensive system, with power accounting for 90 percent of its operating costs, according to Haitham Al-Kilani, the plant's production director.

(https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Daniel_Dessort2/publication/283148896/figure/fig1/AS:342164941885440@1458589887886/location-of-the-Wadi-Maghar-formation-in-Jordan_W540.jpg)

Jordan's Radioactive Water Problem
https://spectrum.ieee.org/energy/environment/jordans-radioactive-water-problem

Quote
(https://spectrum.ieee.org/image/566103)
Quote
After the Disi pipeline is built, 100 million cubic meters of water will travel from the desert to two reservoirs each year. About 40 million cubic meters will go to the Abu Alanda reservoir (1) and mix with some surface water from Wala (2) and treated brackish water from the Zara Ma’en desalination plant (3). The other 60 million cubic meters will go to the Dabouq reservoir (4) and blend with Wala surface water and the output of the Zai Treatment Plant (5), which treats water from the King Abdullah Canal (6). Amman’s used water is sent to the As Samra Wastewater Treatment Plant (7) and later used for irrigation.

A critical $1 billion engineering project in Jordan could be complicated by radium

Policymakers and water experts had been debating the merits of draining Disi through much of the project’s planning. But in February the debate suddenly shifted, when Vengosh published a report in the journal Environmental Science & Technology describing the Disi water as highly radioactive.

He and his coauthors collected samples from 37 wells in the Disi area used mostly for agriculture and mining activities. They found that in all but one well, the concentrations of radium-226 and radium-228 isotopes exceeded the levels considered safe by the World Health Organization and even the more relaxed European Union and U.S. water standards. In some spots, the radiation levels were observed to be 30 times the WHO’s thresholds. Long-term exposure to radium is believed to increase the risk of developing bone cancer.

The Ministry of Water and Irrigation contends that the radiation is not a problem. ... ”availability of water takes precedence over radioactivity.”

(https://starsmedia.ign.com/stars/image/article/869/869016/h2o-salesman-mad-max-beyond-thunderdome-20080423045301247-000.jpg)

What's a little fallout, huh? Have a nice day! (http://What's a little fallout, huh? Have a nice day!)
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: gerontocrat on January 02, 2019, 09:05:23 PM
Jordan and the Middle East.

The Dead Sea is dropping by about 1.2 metres a year, mostly due to the over extraction of water from the River Jordan (often now just a series of muddy puddles) and over extraction from aquifers in Jordan and by its neighbours. Just another indication of  the perennial problem of water demand greater than water supply that plagues all of the Middle East.

When I was there in 2003 and 2004 there was a lot of discussion about how much was down to bad agriculture. Instead of crops suitable for semi-desert, (e.g. olives) - banana plantations everywhere.  But these estates were owned by powerful families - nothing could or can be done.

I produced a business plan for the water and waste water for the Northern Governorates of Jordan. Much of the plan was about reducing water losses, thereby delaying the inevitable. But agriculture use was inviolate. As part of the research for the plan I also looked at water resources and water use in the entire region - Iraq, Israel, Syria, part of Turkey, Saudi Arabia. It was not good.

The only surprise about Jordan now going for the DISI aquifer water is that it has taken so long.
Other Middle East countries increasingly rely on desalination - but that can only take you so far, and even reverse osmosis is not cheap in cost or energy. News from Iran on water and agriculture is not good. In a few years demand for oil and gas will reduce as the water resources gap yawns wider and wider. The only question is - when. Climate change? Just nudges things along a bit quicker. There is a horrible inevitability about it all.

Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: Red on January 02, 2019, 09:18:24 PM
Eighteen lawmakers representing constituencies from the central Iranian province of Esfahan, where water scarcity has reached an alarming state, have resigned collectively in a symbolic move against what they believe is an unfair distribution of water resources. In response, their counterparts from three other provinces, which share the same water supplies, hit back. They demanded in a public letter that the heads of the three branches of the Iranian state — president, parliament speaker and judiciary chief — as well as the country's powerful Supreme National Security Council intervene to bridge the widening divide over who should have more water.

Read more: http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2018/12/iran-water-crisis-parliament-lawmakers-infighting-share.html#ixzz5bU20fAxw
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: vox_mundi on January 03, 2019, 07:54:45 PM
Quote from: gerontocrat
... the water resources gap yawns wider and wider. The only question is - when. Climate change? Just nudges things along a bit quicker. There is a horrible inevitability about it all.

For those who do not learn from the past - everything old is new again ...

How Climate Change Caused the World’s First Ever Empire to Collapse
http://theconversation.com/how-climate-change-caused-the-worlds-first-ever-empire-to-collapse-109060

Quote
Akkadia (Acadian) was the world’s first empire. It was established in Mesopotamia around 4,300 years ago after its ruler, Sargon of Akkad, united a series of independent city states. Akkadian influence spanned along the Tigris and Euphrates rivers from what is now southern Iraq, through to Syria and Turkey.

It appears that the empire became increasingly dependent on the productivity of the northern lands and used the grains sourced from this region to feed the army and redistribute the food supplies to key supporters. Then, about a century after its formation, the Akkadian Empire suddenly collapsed, followed by mass migration and conflicts. The anguish of the era is perfectly captured in the ancient Curse of Akkad text, which describes a period of turmoil with water and food shortages:

Quote
… the large arable tracts yielded no grain, the inundated fields yielded no fish, the irrigated orchards yielded no syrup or wine, the thick clouds did not rain.

-------------------------------------------------

Red Dead Redemption - Not the Wild West Video Game
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Sea%E2%80%93Dead_Sea_Water_Conveyance

Quote
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cf/Red_Sea_-_Dead_Sea_Canal_map.jpg/220px-Red_Sea_-_Dead_Sea_Canal_map.jpg)

The Red Sea–Dead Sea Conveyance, sometimes called the Two Seas Canal, is a planned pipeline that runs from the coastal city of Aqaba by the Red Sea to the Lisan area in the Dead Sea. It will provide potable water to Jordan, Israel and the Palestinian territories, bring sea water to stabilise the Dead Sea water level and generate electricity to support the energy needs of the project. The project is going to be carried by Jordan and is entirely in Jordanian territory. The project will be financed by the government of Jordan and a number of international donors.

The project costs $10 billion in all of its phases, with the first phase, which is slated to begin construction in 2021, will cost $1.1 billion. The Jordanian government is currently in the process of shortlisting consortiums and waiting for the final feasibility study, for which international funding would follow.

(https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.divermag.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F07%2FDead-Sea-levels.jpg&hash=407c1beecd9067bb2af2a2a85d222dfd)

The word to focus on is 'Empire Collapse'

------------------------------------

Quote from: Red
... Eighteen lawmakers representing constituencies from the central Iranian province of Esfahan, where water scarcity has reached an alarming state, have resigned collectively in a symbolic move against what they believe is an unfair distribution of water resources. ...

Not only water but subsidence and Tehran is sitting on several active faults.

Tehran Is Sinking Dangerously
https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2018-12/ggph-wti120618.php

Quote
Iran has a water problem. The reserves in many groundwater basins there have been severely depleted. For the last forty years, the country has invested a lot in the agricultural sector and has been striving to be independent in its food supply. In order to cover the increased water demand, groundwater basins have been exploited to a considerable extent in a hardly state-regulated way.

In addition, the government built a lot of dams to store water for specific purposes, particularly in agriculture. However, this restricted the natural inflow into the country's groundwater basins in the downstream, in turn contributing to desertification and serious environmental issues like shrinkage of Lake Urmia, the world's second-largest salt lake in northwest Iran, and frequent dust and sand storms in recent years in the Khuzestan province in the southwest.

In the region around Tehran, the capital city of eight million inhabitants, the demand for water has also risen sharply due to the influx of many new inhabitants over the last four decades. The number of wells there rose from just under 4000 in 1968 to more than 32.000 in 2012. In addition, there was a lack of rainfall in periods of drought, which have occurred more frequently in recent years. All of this has greatly lowered the groundwater level - in Tehran, for example, by twelve meters between 1984 and 2011

(https://media.eurekalert.org/multimedia_prod/pub/web/187823_web.jpg).
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: sidd on January 03, 2019, 08:52:54 PM
Another kind of water war: they dug a big hole, but it ain't big enuf

https://slate.com/business/2019/01/chicagos-deep-tunnel-is-it-the-solution-to-urban-flooding-or-a-cautionary-tale.html

Chicago is learning that they cant build their way out of trouble.

sidd
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: oren on January 04, 2019, 07:42:46 AM
The Red-Dead canal+hydroelectric+desalination is the only solution that can save Jordan (and the Dead sea?). I'ts been discussed for decades, but nothing happened as of yet.
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: vox_mundi on January 05, 2019, 04:53:00 PM
Tehran isn't the only mega-city sinking due to water removal ...

Mexico City, Parched and Sinking, Faces a Water Crisis
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/02/17/world/americas/mexico-city-sinking.html

Quote
Climate change is threatening to push a crowded capital toward a breaking point.

... The whole city occupies what was once a network of lakes. In 1325, the Aztecs established their capital, Tenochtitlán, on an island. Over time, they expanded the city with landfill and planted crops on floating gardens called chinampas, plots of arable soil created from wattle and sediment. The lakes provided the Aztecs with a line of defense, the chinampas with sustenance. The idea: Live with nature.

Then the conquering Spaniards waged war against water, determined to subdue it. The Aztec system was foreign to them. They replaced the dikes and canals with streets and squares. They drained the lakes and cleared forestland, suffering flood after flood, including one that drowned the city for five straight years.

“The Aztecs managed,” ... “But they had 300,000 people. We now have 21 million.”

(https://geographyeducationdotorg.files.wordpress.com/2017/03/e526e8e2-8a90-47fb-b5a5-75286d859625.jpg?w=700)

... the government acknowledges that nearly 20 percent of Mexico City residents — critics put the number even higher — still can’t count on getting water from their taps each day. For some residents, water comes only once a week, or once every several weeks, and that may mean just an hour of yellow muck dripping from the faucet. Those people have to hire trucks to deliver drinking water, at costs sometimes exponentially higher than wealthy residents pay in better-served neighborhoods.
Quote
“Climate change is expected to have two effects,” ... “We expect heavier, more intense rains, which means more floods, but also more and longer droughts.”

If it stops raining in the reservoirs where the city gets its water, “we’re facing a potential disaster,” ... “There is no way we can provide enough trucks of water to deal with that scenario.”

“If we have the problems that California and São Paulo have had, there is the serious possibility of unrest.”

-----------------------------

Mexico City Goes Days Without Water During Maintenance Shutdown
https://www.npr.org/2018/10/31/662786981/mexico-city-goes-days-without-water-during-maintenance-shutdown

Quote
10-31-2018 The 72 hr. water shut-off will hit as many as half of the city's 8 million-plus residents.

... Workers are making much-needed repairs to Mexico City's so-called Cutzamala system. It's a 200-mile-long complex water delivery system composed of several huge lines, reservoirs and pumping stations that send water up and over the mountains ringing Mexico City.

The system is highly inefficient and in dire need of repairs. As much as 40 percent of the water coming into Mexico City is lost to leaks.
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: gerontocrat on January 05, 2019, 06:30:52 PM
Tehran isn't the only mega-city sinking due to water removal ...

Mexico City, Parched and Sinking, Faces a Water Crisis
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/02/17/world/americas/mexico-city-sinking.html

This story is over 30 years old (shows how long I was on and off in the water business).

These cities ( Karachi, Shanghai, Calcutta Bangkok, Jakarta, Dhaka, Amman, Manila .........the list is very long) stagger from one crisis (too much or too little water) to another and yet somehow keep going.

I am still waiting for the first real water war - it must come, sometime or other. Maybe between countries, maybe internal unrest. Of interest will be how this also happens in the developed countries (e.g. Phoenix, Arizona).
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: vox_mundi on January 07, 2019, 05:10:01 PM
Quote from: gerontocrat
... I am still waiting for the first real water war - it must come, sometime or other. Maybe between countries, maybe internal unrest. Of interest will be how this also happens in the developed countries (e.g. Phoenix, Arizona).

I lived in Phoenix for 8 years and the problem there is that most of the citizens are retirees or recent migrants from water rich states up north. They have no perception of the value of water - or its scarcity.

Plight of Phoenix: How Long Can the World’s 'Least Sustainable' City Survive?
https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2018/mar/20/phoenix-least-sustainable-city-survive-water

Quote
(https://droughtmonitor.unl.edu/data/jpg/20181225/20181225_usdm.jpg)

... This winter, snow in the Rocky Mountains, which feeds the Colorado, was 70% lower than average. Last month, the US government calculated that two thirds of Arizona is currently facing severe to extreme drought; last summer 50 flights were grounded at Phoenix airport because the heat – which hit 47C (116F) – made the air too thin to take off safely. The “heat island” effect keeps temperatures in Phoenix above 37C (98F) at night in summer.

Quote
... “There are plans for substantial further growth and there just isn’t the water to support that,” says climate researcher Jonathan Overpeck, who co-authored a 2017 report that linked declining flows in the Colorado river to climate change. “The Phoenix metro area is on the cusp of being dangerously overextended. It’s the urban bullseye for global warming in north America.”

... despite the federal Bureau of Reclamation reporting in 2012 that droughts of five or more years would happen every decade over the next 50 years, greater Phoenix has not declared any water restrictions. Nor has the state government decided its official drought contingency proposal.
Quote
... Greater Phoenix is good at recycling waste water, but most of it is used for cooling the Palo Verde nuclear power plant to the west of the city, the largest in the US and the only one not on its own body of water. Conversely, the water department is Arizona’s biggest electricity consumer, because it has to pump the water uphill from the Colorado along miles of canals into Phoenix and Tucson. And most of that electricity comes from the heavily polluting, coal-fired Navajo Generating Station in the north of the state.

Meanwhile, despite enjoying more than 330 days of bright sunshine a year, Holway estimates that Arizona only derives 2-5% of its energy from solar power.

-------------------------------

With Colorado River Water Shortage Looming, Phoenix Votes Down Water-Rate Increase
https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/phoenix/2018/12/12/colorado-river-shortage-looming-phoenix-city-council-kills-water-rate-hike/2287381002/

Quote
The Phoenix City Council rejected a two-year water-rate increase that would have supported $1.5 billion in new drought-contingency projects and repairs to the city's aging water-delivery system.

About $500 million generated from the rate increase would have gone toward a Colorado River resiliency project, and $500 million would have gone toward fixing aging pipelines. The rest of the money would have paid to replace pumps and update water-treatment facilities and equipment.

That proposal amounts to an increase of $1.98 per month in 2019 and an additional $2.35 per month in 2020 for the average customer, according to the city.

-----------------------------

Water Wars: Are Hundreds of Residents Going To Go Thirsty North of Phoenix?
https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona-investigations/2017/09/28/phoenix-cracks-down-water-haulers-new-river/691673001/

Quote
... Hundreds of residents are slated to lose affordable access to privately hauled drinking water at the end of the year because of a city of Phoenix crackdown on water haulers refilling from city fire hydrants.

Meanwhile, families who own wells are anxiously watching groundwater levels drop as population growth sucks the already shallow aquifer dry.

"What would happen if 1,000 people just suddenly have no water available?" ... "There's going to be a big problem. I don't think the people (in government) making the decisions are looking at the greater picture."
Quote
... Phoenix accuses private water haulers of hooking up illegally to its hydrants, which are designated for firefighting and construction only, to draw water for residents outside the city. "Water in the hydrants is intended to put out fires, not to be potable," said Wes Harris, a member of the Phoenix Water and Wastewater Citizens' Rate Advisory Committee.
Sounds like India.
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: vox_mundi on January 07, 2019, 06:12:09 PM
Here’s Where the Post-Apocalyptic Water Wars Will Be Fought
https://earther.gizmodo.com/here-s-where-the-post-apocalyptic-water-wars-will-be-fo-1829793126

Quote
A United Nations report published last week said we have about a decade to get climate change under control, which—let’s be honest—isn’t likely to happen. So break out your goalie masks and harpoon guns, a Mad Max future awaits! Now, as new research points out, we even know where on Earth the inevitable water wars are most likely to take place.

Published today in Global Environmental Change, the paper (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S095937801830253X?via%3Dihub) identifies several hotspots around the globe where “hydro-political issues,” in the parlance of the researchers, are likely to give rise to geopolitical tensions, and possibly even conflict. The authors of the new report, a team from the European Commission’s Joint Research Centre (JRC), say the escalating effects of climate change, in conjunction with ongoing trends in population growth, could trigger regional instability and social unrest in regions where freshwater is scarce, and where bordering nations have to manage and share this increasingly scarce commodity.

(https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--qTBuRdw8--/c_scale,f_auto,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/w8ln09gbjhhsvpvwpibs.jpg)

Looking at the results, the researchers found that conflicts are more likely to arise in areas where a “transboundary” to water is present, such as a shared lake, basin, or river, and when freshwater is scarce, population density high, and power imbalances and climate stresses exist. A number of potentially problematic areas were identified, including five hotspots: the Nile, Ganges-Brahmaputra, Indus, Tigris-Euphrates, and Colorado rivers.
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: Sigmetnow on February 03, 2019, 09:33:00 PM
Beyond Drought: 7 States Rebalance Their Colorado River Use as Global Warming Dries the Region
Quote
On Thursday night, Arizona joined other states that share the river basin in agreeing to voluntary water conservation plans. Its legislature approved a plan that helps balance the state's competing water rights with of those of California, Colorado, Nevada, New Mexico, Utah and Wyoming, along with Native American tribes and Mexico. The states faced a Jan. 31 deadline for completing interstate contingency plans on water rights; without them, federal officials could order mandatory cuts later this year. Only a California water district had yet to agree.
...
A 2018 study used hydrology models to tease out what was causing the reduced runoff. It blamed a little more than half of the decline on unprecedented regional warming, which melted the snowpack and increased water use by plants. The rest was due to lower snowfall in four key pockets of Colorado where most of the water originates.

Model simulations run by Keith Musselman of the University of Colorado for a 2017 study indicated that some Western mountains could be expected to lose 10 percent of their mountain snowpack for every 1 degree Celsius of warming. (The models simulated flows in the Southern Sierra Nevada.)

A third application of advanced models across six mountainous regions of the West saw global warming driving the snowline — the altitude where snow falls above, but rain below — significantly higher up the slopes. Rain runs off immediately, while snow is stored until spring or summer.

The results "overwhelmingly indicate" the vulnerability of snowpack to a warmer climate," wrote the authors, from the University of Utah. ...
https://insideclimatenews.org/news/31012019/colorado-river-water-crisis-climate-science-state-conservation-plans
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: sidd on February 21, 2019, 05:32:14 AM
Mines and water: a gift that keeps on giving

"poisoning aquatic life and tainting water supplies in Montana, California, Colorado, Oklahoma and at least five other states."

"at average flows, more than 50 million gallons (189 million liters) of contaminated wastewater streams daily from the sites. In many cases, it runs untreated into nearby groundwater, rivers and ponds — a roughly 20-million-gallon (76-million-liter) daily dose of pollution that could fill more than 2,000 tanker trucks."

"The remainder of the waste is captured or treated in a costly effort that will need to carry on indefinitely, for perhaps thousands of years, often with little hope for reimbursement."

"Estimates of the number of such abandoned mine sites range from 161,000 in 12 western states to as many as 500,000 nationwide. At least 33,000 have degraded the environment, according to the Government Accountability Office, and thousands more are discovered every year."

"AP also found mining sites where untreated water harms the environment or threatens drinking water supplies in North and South Carolina, Vermont, Missouri and Oregon."

https://www.apnews.com/8158167fd9ab4cd8966e47a6dd6cbe96

Pennsylvania and West Virginia are not on the list, but they should be.

sidd
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: vox_mundi on February 21, 2019, 09:50:51 PM
India to Cut Water to Pakistan as Kashmir Conflict Escalates
https://m.dw.com/en/india-to-cut-water-to-pakistan-as-kashmir-conflict-escalates/a-47622188

India's infrastructure minister, Nitin Gadkari, announced on Twitter on Thursday that his country had, "decided to stop our share of water which used to flow to Pakistan."

The announcement came as tensions between India and neighboring Pakistan continued to soar in the wake of a deadly terror attack in the disputed Kashmir region last Thursday.

India blames Pakistan for the attack, which killed 40 paramilitary soldiers, whereas Pakistan denies any involvement.

... Gadkari, whose ministerial brief includes transport and water resources, also announced that India had begun construction of a dam on the Ravi river, a major tributary to the Indus. 
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: sidd on February 21, 2019, 11:57:15 PM
Re: India to Pak water curtailment

Ouch. That's gonna leave a mark. This is marked escalation, i do not recall that weapon used in any of the previous wars.

sidd
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: vox_mundi on February 22, 2019, 12:27:40 AM
The pot is ready to boil on both sides ...

India Faces 'Worst-Ever' Water Crisis: Report (https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/06/india-faces-worst-water-crisis-report-180616072654630.html)
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/06/india-faces-worst-water-crisis-report-180616072654630.html

Quote
(https://www.aljazeera.com/mritems/Images/2018/6/17/c14749e6a4304ed4aeaaf4dca21abd26_6.jpg)

About 600 million Indians are facing high to extreme stress over water, according to the Composite Water Resources Management report (http://www.niti.gov.in/writereaddata/files/document_publication/2018-05-18-Water-index-Report_vS6B.pdf) by the government's policy think-tank Niti Aayog this week.

The comprehensive study on the state of India's water warned of conflict and other related threats, including food security risks, unless actions are taken to restore water bodies.

Many parched cities and villages in India are pushing back their "Day Zero" (when water taps run dry), but barely, warned the new report.

About 40 percent of the population will have no access to clean drinking water by 2030.

More than 20 cities, including New Delhi, Bengaluru and Chennai, will run out of groundwater by 2020, affecting 100 million people, according to the report.

Agricultural baskets, states that are home to 50 percent of the population, are the low performers in the government policy body's Water Index, that could pose a "significant food security risk" for India.
Quote
... "What this report says was true 15 years ago, now the situation has worsened. Ninety cities in India do not have enough clean drinking water now to sustain its populace"

Depleting groundwater reserves, paired with climatic changes such as rising temperatures, could further exacerbate water scarcity, experts have warned.

(https://www.aljazeera.com/mritems/Images/2018/6/17/1c79c10688a041f89720df2083f2db5a_6.jpg)
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: sidd on February 22, 2019, 08:43:41 AM
Different kinda water war: Tennessee Valley Authority using all dams for flood control

"this rain is affecting all 49 of their dams in an effort to stop the Tennessee Valley from flooding."

"Everett said they are storing water in 10 of their tributary areas to help keep North Alabama from flooding."

" "We're storing as much water as we can and reducing levels to hold them as low as we can during this coming week,"  "

https://www.waaytv.com/content/news/TVA-is-using-all-49-dams-to-prevent-flooding-for-Tennessee-Valley-506061081.html

A losing battle, i think. Storms to come will overwhelm human engineering faster than thought by the engineers.

sidd


sidd
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: gerontocrat on February 23, 2019, 05:54:12 PM
I wonder why the Guardian decided to print this story now. After all, it was an old story when I was writing up this stuff back in 2002.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/feb/23/israel-where-jesus-preached-holy-waters-draining-away-sea-of-galilee-river-jordan

Where Jesus once preached, the holy waters are draining away
Climate change and conflict have left the river Jordan a stagnant stream and the Sea of Galilee critically low

Quote
If Jesus were alive today, he might reconsider a baptism in the river Jordan; there’s a good chance he’d pick up an eye infection. Faecal bacteria in the pungent, murky waters have risen in recent years to up to six times the recommended levels.

Once a raging torrent, the lower Jordan has been starved of water to become a stagnant stream, filled with sewage and dirty run-off from farms. Around 95% of its historical flow has been diverted by agriculture during the past half-century. And the river’s primary source, the Sea of Galilee – where Christians believe the son of God walked on water – has for years been dammed to prevent its demise.


Lose yourself in a great story: Sign up for the long read email
 Read more
Biblical bodies of water in the Holy Land, eternalised in Christian, Jewish and Muslim ancient texts as godly, are now facing very human threats: climate change, mismanagement and conflict.

Following five consecutive years of drought, the Sea of Galilee has sunk to a 100-year low. A number of small islands have emerged at the water’s surface, and several holiday homes that were built on the shoreline now stand at least 100 metres from the boggy edge.

Overuse has also taken its toll. Last summer, the level of the lake dropped close to a black line, a level at which it could lose its status as a freshwater body. “The black line is our best guess of that point,” says Gidon Bromberg, the Israeli director of EcoPeace, an organisation of Israeli, Palestinian and Jordanian environmentalists. “It was tens of centimetres above the black line,” he says, adding that such a shallow depth has not been seen in records taken over the past century.
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: oren on February 24, 2019, 01:03:56 AM
Quote
I wonder why the Guardian decided to print this story now. After all, it was an old story when I was writing up this stuff back in 2002.
It's a trend that started way back, but keeps on going. Same as sea ice, every now and then someone will say oh wow it's at a record low.
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: vox_mundi on May 21, 2019, 09:42:00 AM
Millions Without Water in Libya as Armed Group Cuts Off Supply 
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/may/21/millions-without-water-libya-armed-group-cuts-off-supply

Water supplies to the Libyan capital and surrounding cities have been cut off after an armed group stormed a control room, leaving millions of people without water as summer temperatures begin to climb.

The gunmen arrived on Sunday at the control room in Jafara run by a consortium known as the Great Man-Made River project (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Man-Made_River), which transports water via a vast underground network of pipes from the Sahara into Tripoli, a city of more than 2 million people, and other coastal areas. The group forced staff to shut down the water pipes connected to underground wells.

As a result of the attack water will not just be cut to Tripoli, but also to Gharyan and some other western mountain cities. It is not known how long it will take to restore supplies, but the incident underlines the vulnerability of Libya’s civil fabric to a prolonged war. The authority previously warned it was finding it difficult to repair leaks due to the fighting. Libya periodically suffers from water outages.

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/31/Great_Man_Made_River_schematic_EN.svg/500px-Great_Man_Made_River_schematic_EN.svg.png)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Man-Made_River
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: Alexander555 on May 25, 2019, 11:06:34 AM
And by next year many of these cities will lose their main source of water, groundwater. How is that going to unfold ? I think China will be happy in the future that they had a 1 child policy. Maybe not good for a capitalist system that needs constant growth. But for their survival it probably was a good step. https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/bengaluru/water-scarcity-hits-govt-hospitals-in-hyd-ktaka-sterilisation-camp-scrapped/articleshow/69488745.cms
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: gerontocrat on May 25, 2019, 12:01:24 PM
Millions Without Water in Libya as Armed Group Cuts Off Supply 
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/may/21/millions-without-water-libya-armed-group-cuts-off-supply
The water brought into the cities from the Sahara is fossil water, i.e. not replaced when extracted. How long before it is exhausted I do not know, though Wikipedia says "Independent estimates indicate that the aquifer could be depleted of water in as soon as 60 to 100 years. Analysts say that the costs of the $25 billion groundwater extraction system are 10% those of desalination." Much will depend on the quantity of the water used  for irrigated agriculture.

https://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/imagegallery/image_feature_562.html
"Fossil Water" in Libya
Quote
In the 1950s, oil exploration in Libya turned up another valuable resource: water. Huge aquifers, underground deposits of sand and rock that also contain water, lurked underneath the scorching sands. The Libyan government weighed the costs of bringing water up from the aquifers against transporting water from Europe and desalination of salt water, and chose the aquifers as the most cost-effective option.

Water hiding in aquifers can actually be cleaner than water resting in above-ground reservoirs because the process of percolating through soil and rock can remove impurities. Water can rest underground in aquifers for thousands or even millions of years. When geologic changes seal the aquifer off from further "recharging," the water inside is sometimes called "fossil water." Radiocarbon dating has revealed that some of Libya's aquifer water has been there for 40,000 years, since before the end of the last ice age.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/31/Great_Man_Made_River_schematic_EN.svg/500px-Great_Man_Made_River_schematic_EN.svg.png)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Man-Made_River
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: Tom_Mazanec on May 31, 2019, 12:51:51 AM
800,000,000 at risk of losing water supply as Asia's glaciers shrink away:
https://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change-asia-glaciers-shrinking-himalayas-science-a8934901.html?utm_source=reddit.com
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: kassy on June 09, 2019, 11:00:16 AM
Heatstroke kills monkeys as India suffers in searing temperatures

...

The monkeys died in Joshi Baba forest range in Madhya Pradesh state where the thermometer reached 46 Celsius (114 Fahrenheit).

District forest officer P. N. Mishra said the primates were believed to have fought with a rival troop over access to a water source.

"This is rare and strange as herbivores don't indulge in such conflicts," Mishra told NDTV network.

...

In Jharkhand state, a man stabbed six others after he was stopped from filling extra water barrels at a public tank, media reported Saturday.

On Friday, a 33-year-old man died after a similar fight in Tamil Nadu state.

https://phys.org/news/2019-06-heatstroke-monkeys-india-searing-temperatures.html
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: gerontocrat on June 17, 2019, 05:24:42 PM
Violence is increasing

https://packages.trust.org/running-dry/index.html
Competing for water on a thirsty planet

Quote
Around the world, fresh water is fast becoming a dangerously scarce resource, driving a surge in fights to secure supplies and fears over rising numbers of deaths in water conflicts.
In the 1990s, conflicts driven by water scarcity led to about 350 deaths, in places from Yemen to Nigeria, according to the chronology based on news reports and other sources.

But in the last five years, at least 3,000 people - and perhaps more than 10 times that many, if estimates of refugee deaths by Medicins Sans Frontieres are included - have died in clashes related to water in a huge range of countries, it noted.

"We see conflicts over water, unfortunately, almost everywhere around the world now as competition grows over the scarce resource," said Peter Gleick, co-founder of the California-based Pacific Institute.

"If you look at the number of conflicts over water in the past few decades, it's going up exponentially."
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: sidd on July 06, 2019, 05:46:48 PM
Different kinda war:

"virtual water exports – the molecules of H20 embedded in exported goods, alongside those rendered unusable by the production of those goods – amount to a net 95.4 billion cubic meters a year, according to data collected by the Water Footprint Network, a group that encourages thriftier usage. This makes India a bigger exporter of water than far better-endowed countries such as Brazil, Russia, the U.S. and Canada, and represents nearly four times the 25 billion cubic meters consumed by India’s households and industrial enterprises."

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-07-06/india-is-the-world-s-biggest-exporter-of-water-despite-shortages

sidd
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: nanning on August 06, 2019, 12:07:21 PM
Ominous article in the Guardian:

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2019/aug/06/extreme-water-stress-affects-a-quarter-of-the-worlds-population-say-experts

Extreme water stress affects a quarter of the world's population, say experts

Some excerpts:

The global research organisation compared the water available to the amount withdrawn for homes, industries, irrigation and livestock.

In the 17 countries facing extremely high water stress, agriculture, industry, and municipalities were found to be using up to 80% of available surface and groundwater in an average year. When demand rivals supply, even small dry spells, which are set to increase because of the climate crisis, can produce dire consequences.

Twelve of the 17 high-risk countries were in the Middle East and North Africa.
(more in the article)
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: DrTskoul on August 06, 2019, 12:49:22 PM
Oil built Saudi Arabia – will a lack of water destroy it? (https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2019/aug/06/oil-built-saudi-arabia-will-a-lack-of-water-destroy-it)

Quote
Perhaps not surprising for someone who makes a living selling water, Asmari professes to be untroubled about the future of Saudi Arabia’s water supply. “Studies show water in some reserves can stand consumption for another 150 years,” he says. “In Saudi Arabia, we have many reserves – we have no problems in this area.”

Quote
...His confident predictions are out of sync with the facts. One Saudi groundwater expert at King Faisal University predicted in 2016 that the kingdom only had another 13 years’ worth of groundwater reserves left....

Quote
Almarai, a major food producer, has begun buying up deserted land in the US, on plots near Los Angeles and in Arizona, and in Argentina, in order to grow water-rich alfalfa to feed its dairy cows.

Let's export our greed elsewhere
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: vox_mundi on August 08, 2019, 02:47:36 AM
Pakistan Warns Of War After India's Move To End Kashmir's Special Status
https://www.npr.org/2019/08/07/748957876/pakistan-warns-indias-move-to-end-kashmir-s-special-status-could-lead-to-war

Pakistan's prime minister warned that a move by India to strip Kashmir of its special status could lead to war between the two countries and the "ethnic cleansing" of Muslims in the restive Himalayan region.

Imran Khan cited a suicide attack in February that killed at least 40 Indian security forces in Indian-controlled Kashmir and was followed by airstrikes and a dogfight between Indian and Pakistani pilots.

"Such incidents are bound to happen again. I can already predict this will happen," Khan said, addressing a joint session of Parliament on Tuesday.

"They will attempt to place the blame on us again," Khan said. "They may strike us again, and we will strike back. ... Who will win that war? No one will win it and it will have grievous consequences for the entire world."


... the United States is negotiating a deal with the Taliban that would allow American forces to withdraw from Afghanistan. But if conflict flares up surrounding Kashmir, those efforts could be upended, said Mosharraf Zaidi, a columnist for the Pakistani daily The News.

"It will fundamentally alter the ability of Pakistan to try and support the U.S. in its mission in Afghanistan," he said.

Meanwhile, in Kashmir, where Internet and phone service were cut off ahead of Monday's decree, some 400 local politicians have been placed under arrest by Indian security forces, according to India Today.

Quote
... Part of what spurs this desire for Kashmiri territory is the water: The Indus river system is split between India and Pakistan, and the water supply’s availability is incredibly important to both countries.

(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/10472/production/_93047666_pakistan_indus_dams_v04_624map.png)

--------------------

Pakistan Downgrades Ties With India
https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-asia-49267912

Pakistan has announced plans to expel India's top diplomat and suspend trade with its neighbour, deepening a row between the countries over the disputed territory of Kashmir.

------------------

How India and Pakistan are Competing Over the Mighty Indus River
https://theconversation.com/amp/how-india-and-pakistan-are-competing-over-the-mighty-indus-river-77737
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: petm on August 08, 2019, 03:26:41 AM
Pakistan Warns Of War After India's Move To End Kashmir's Special Status

Fantastic. /sarc
A local nuclear war that contaminates the Himalayan-sourced drinking water supply would accelerate the collapse of civilization quite substantially.
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: vox_mundi on August 08, 2019, 04:19:11 AM
Be careful what you wish for ...

Yes, India And Pakistan Could End The World As We Know It Through A Nuclear Exchange 
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/26674/yes-india-and-pakistan-could-end-the-world-as-we-know-it-through-a-nuclear-exchange


(https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/the-drive-cms-content-staging/message-editor%2F1551321912316-bcabsoptdaily.gif)
An animated image showing the density and spread of soot following the detonations of 100 15-kiloton class nuclear weapons during a regional conflict between India and Pakistan based on the models Robcock, et al. first developed in 2007.
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: DrTskoul on August 08, 2019, 07:21:51 AM
Be careful what you wish for ...

Yes, India And Pakistan Could End The World As We Know It Through A Nuclear Exchange 
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/26674/yes-india-and-pakistan-could-end-the-world-as-we-know-it-through-a-nuclear-exchange


(https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/the-drive-cms-content-staging/message-editor%2F1551321912316-bcabsoptdaily.gif)
An animated image showing the density and spread of soot following the detonations of 100 15-kiloton class nuclear weapons during a regional conflict between India and Pakistan based on the models Robcock, et al. first developed in 2007.

Fuel to AGW we might only to the back to the 1900s in temperature terms...
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: Tom_Mazanec on August 08, 2019, 02:13:49 PM
Be careful what you wish for ...

Yes, India And Pakistan Could End The World As We Know It Through A Nuclear Exchange 
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/26674/yes-india-and-pakistan-could-end-the-world-as-we-know-it-through-a-nuclear-exchange


(https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/the-drive-cms-content-staging/message-editor%2F1551321912316-bcabsoptdaily.gif)
An animated image showing the density and spread of soot following the detonations of 100 15-kiloton class nuclear weapons during a regional conflict between India and Pakistan based on the models Robcock, et al. first developed in 2007.

Fuel to AGW we might only to the back to the 1900s in temperature terms...

DrT, your reply is a little garbled. Are you saying temperatures would return to 1900 levels, or to 1999 levels?
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: DrTskoul on August 08, 2019, 02:45:46 PM
Little ice age was supposedly a few tenths of degrees lower than the beginning of the century. If their date analysis gets us back to little ice age, starting from today's warmed up world it might only get us back to sth warmer than the little ice age. That's all...
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: Tom_Mazanec on August 08, 2019, 04:42:12 PM
And don’t forget the nuclear winter would be followed by a nuclear summer as all that greenhouse gas in the mushroom clouds and firestorms takes effect and as the ozone layer degrades.
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: nanning on August 08, 2019, 06:16:15 PM
Probably a stupid question but wouldn't that soot fall out of the sky within a month?
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: vox_mundi on August 08, 2019, 06:33:36 PM
Historical data on residence times of aerosols, albeit a different mixture of aerosols, in this case stratospheric sulfur aerosols and volcanic ash from megavolcano eruptions, appear to be in the one-to-two-year time scale.

Soot (black carbon) is not significantly affected by rain clouds in the stratosphere.

Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: nanning on August 08, 2019, 06:38:31 PM
Thanks vox_mundi.
How I understand it is: It is because these aerosols go up into the stratosphere, they behave different than aerosols from coal power stations. Is the composition also different?
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: Tom_Mazanec on August 10, 2019, 08:21:14 PM
Canadian 2017 wildfire supports Nuclear Winter scenario.
nanning, aerosols from fires are dark light carbon, not pale heavy silicate like volcanoes, as I understand it.
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/2019/08/cloud-wildfires-how-nuclear-winter-works/
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: sidd on August 23, 2019, 02:04:52 AM
Flint cant catch a break:

" city dumped an estimated 2 million gallons of untreated sewage into the Flint River Sunday, Aug. 18, just months after officials warned wastewater infrastructure was fast approaching a “critical point.”"

https://www.mlive.com/news/flint/2019/08/months-after-dire-warnings-flint-spills-2-million-gallons-of-raw-sewage-into-river.html

Now right b4 then, they asked for a waiver to stop testing for contamination:

https://www.mlive.com/news/flint/2019/08/flint-sought-waiver-to-end-testing-public-notice-after-sewage-spills.html

Sacrifice zone of late stage capitalism.

sidd
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: Tor Bejnar on August 23, 2019, 08:43:17 PM
Flint cant catch a break:

Sacrifice zone of late stage capitalism.
sidd
I think we are nearly all in one powerbroker's 'zone' or another.  A Venn Diagram of abuse, neglect and aversion.  Flint is one place that has it bad 'early on'. 
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: sidd on August 24, 2019, 06:41:31 AM
Water in the America west:

"You just can't use more than comes in."

"farmers and their water districts long ago realized that, unless they inked deals with the big cities, the federal government would eventually step in."

"For a price, cities can divert Colorado River water intended for crops via aqueduct to kitchen taps in Santa Monica and La Jolla. The water marketing model has been so successful that agricultural land use in the region is projected to decrease as conversion to urban use accelerates"

https://phys.org/news/2019-08-west-cash.html

sidd
Title: Re: Water wars
Post by: bligh8 on August 24, 2019, 04:58:14 PM
Declare state of emergency over Newark water crisis, lawmaker begs Murphy

"State Assemblyman Jamel Holley, D-Union, sent a letter to Murphy and Newark Mayor Ras Baraka on Tuesday, pleading that the state issue an emergency declaration to take over management of Newark’s water system and to dispatch the National Guard to handle the distribution of bottled water, among other requests, according to a copy of the letter obtained by NJ Advance Media."

"Newark’s lead levels spiked in 2017 but last week the city began handing out more than 70,000 cases of bottled water “out of an abundance of caution” after the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency asked the city to do so. The agency was troubled by new testing that questioned the effectiveness of more than 39,000 PUR water filters handed out by the city. Two of three tested homes with those filters did not remove enough lead from the water, the surprising tests showed."

I've some personal experience with PUR water product's and frankly ..  I was not impressed with their performance.

"The filters were part of the city’s short-term plan to address spiked lead levels in the water as the city fixed the water treatment. A longer-term plan to replace the lead service lines causing the issue will take years, and $75 million."

https://www.nj.com/news/2019/08/declare-state-of-emergency-over-newark-water-crisis-lawmaker-begs-murphy.html

bligh