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Messages - Aporia_filia

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Arctic sea ice / Re: "Stupid" Questions :o
« on: December 04, 2019, 11:54:32 AM »
Binntho, in my humble opinion, you are more than average intelligent person. You have the ability to succeed in the world of ideas. But you look like Icarus.
Sidd is totally right. We are living because some 10% of our body mass are bacterias and other alien microorganisms that live in symbiosis with our body. Gaia can stay in homeostasis because of all life interacting in her guts.
Maybe one solution could be that all the tech-believers join Elon and fly to Mars so they can fiddle their environment, their GDP, their abstract ideas and with no 'nature' inconvenience, colonize again a planet till it's all overcrowded and spoilt, and then jump to another one. Good luck!
The rest of us, not regretting tech, but not idolising it, could try to live calmly controlling our numbers and not controlling the rest of Gaia. (Although I think this would need some evolution in the H. Sap.)

Thanks a lot ASLR for his tireless contribution.
"Let's take the science seriously and recognize the urgency that Lenton et al, ASLR and others describe and justly emphasize as a planetary emergency and existential threat. Downplaying this inconvenient truth may be a natural impulse, but has been done for too long and is nog helping us. Let's face reality and the risks it entails and do what we have to do to minimize those risks, while we still can."
As usual, very wise comment from Lennart.
And cross posting from Holocene Extinction this 'compelling' article:
Quote from: Aporia_filia on November 25, 2019, 08:01:50 PM
The chill of reality. UBC ecological economist William E. Rees, co-creator of the ecological footprint concept, has some bad news for techno-optimists.
 I find his views very realistic, as he wants to be:
Compelling summary of our behavior and its consequences (thanks to Tor)

Consequences / Re: The Holocene Extinction
« on: November 25, 2019, 08:44:19 PM »
You are very right, Kassy.
Was that because the standard economic theory has been completely blind to natural resources?
Has the world changed that much in 13 years?

Consequences / Re: The Holocene Extinction
« on: November 25, 2019, 08:01:50 PM »
The chill of reality. UBC ecological economist William E. Rees, co-creator of the ecological footprint concept, has some bad news for techno-optimists.
 I find his views very realistic, as he wants to be:

Consequences / Re: The Holocene Extinction
« on: November 25, 2019, 11:47:11 AM »
This is another clear consequence of wild capitalism. The article and the theory are from 2006, but its goodness is more evident day after day.

"Standard economic theory predicts that exploitation alone is unlikely to result in species extinction because of the escalating costs of finding the last individuals of a declining species. We argue that the human predisposition to place exaggerated value on rarity fuels disproportionate exploitation of rare species, rendering them even rarer and thus more desirable, ultimately leading them into an extinction vortex. Here we present a simple mathematical model and various empirical examples to show how the value attributed to rarity in some human activities could precipitate the extinction of rare species—a concept that we term the anthropogenic Allee effect. The alarming finding that human perception of rarity can precipitate species extinction has serious implications for the conservation of species that are rare or that may become so, be they charismatic and emblematic or simply likely to become fashionable for certain activities."

What is the value of a huge brain that can use abstract ideas if in real world it behaves like this???

Policy and solutions / Re: Extinction Rebellion
« on: November 22, 2019, 10:13:42 AM »
Always the same old story. It's only needed to love others as much as you love yourself, but let's start arguing about the sex of the angels to fuck it all up.

Walking the walk / Re: Zero-Carbon Farming and Living via the Acorn Path
« on: October 29, 2019, 10:23:07 AM »

While foragers harvest mushrooms, nettles and berries, the humble acorn has long been ignored, in the UK at least. That could all be about to change. The Wall Street Journal reports that in South Korea, acorns have achieved “superfood” status, with people devouring “acorn noodles, jelly and powder”. And, last month, the Woodland Trust in the UK published a piece on its website about acorns and how to eat them.

Arctic sea ice / Re: "Stupid" Questions :o
« on: October 24, 2019, 08:22:07 PM »
Thanks a lot, you two.

Arctic sea ice / Re: "Stupid" Questions :o
« on: October 24, 2019, 12:13:30 PM »
Provably this is a real stupid question, but can not find a simple explanation of what should(?) be the main physical effect of warming the atmosphere: thermal expansion.
It is always treated when talking about seas.
There are a few papers on 'regional' effects like this
But, how could we spect the atmosphere respond to it, increasing its whole size, only part of it's layers, not the size but total pressure, what happens to the exchange with outer space???

Walking the walk / Re: Zero-Carbon Farming and Living via the Acorn Path
« on: October 20, 2019, 11:45:55 AM »
This is a friend of a friend, he's specializing in fermented foods. He has open a YouTube's channel to share his experiences, most in Spanish, but some in English. The link is for a recipe for acorns, in English.

The forum / Re: Forum Decorum
« on: October 20, 2019, 11:30:22 AM »
^^^ yeah! Growing old with an open curious mind means becoming wiser as they show us!

Policy and solutions / Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« on: October 07, 2019, 11:53:01 AM »
As an atheist who was brought up in strict Catholic religion. The disgraceful indoctrinating religious education (because is done when you are too young to defend yourself) teaches people to believe in things (that cannot be proven), not to reason about things. This preference gets struck in our brain emotions and will dominate our way of thinking. People, though, prefer believing than thinking.
Politicians use this all the time. It was so easy to substitute god for gold as in Moise's story coming down with the new laws and finding this scenario.
What a hard work is changing this behavior!

The rest / Re: Astronomical news
« on: September 30, 2019, 12:21:53 PM »
"Manifest Destiny" You're one of my idols here Sidd. But this is an idea where I'm not that sure. Why? Because we cannot know how free our free will is. We're always talking as if our brains could rationalise everything, but we know that our behavior is more hormone based than rational. How unnatural that Manifest Destiny behavior is?
Probably very unnatural if you think of individuals, but how about Humanity?
We are so proud of our free will and our intelligence that we don't consider what is a must when studying other spicies: the effects and behavior of the Superorganism.
And I bring back something that even had a thread in this forum (if remembered correctly); we should consider the size of human groups as a fundamental characteristic  of its nature.
This could be applied to nanning hypothesis; we are evolving, we are not equal (no one better than other), but those who are selfish have easier time into big groups of people than into 'tribes'.
There are so many evolutionary studies with pigeons, foxes, daisys... about all this, why not about us?

The rest / Re: Economic Inequality
« on: September 20, 2019, 09:39:11 AM »
In different places in Africa, (Senegal,...) not that long ago, being rich was socially rejected. The social believe was that is very easy to go through difficult times when you'll need help from others, when you'll be short of food or any other need. So, the best thing to do was sharing what you have because with everyone doing the same the chances of being in need were minimize.

The rest / Re: Is Man the "Unnatural Animal?"
« on: September 16, 2019, 10:44:46 AM »

The Secret History of Fort Detrick, the CIA’s Base for Mind Control Experiments
Today, it’s a cutting-edge lab. In the 1950s and 1960s, it was the center of the U.S. government’s darkest experiments

The rest / Re: Is Man the "Unnatural Animal?"
« on: September 16, 2019, 10:42:27 AM »
Thanks to great Vox-mundi

*Psychologists Define the 'Dark Core of Personality'*

> *Egoism, Machiavellianism, narcissism, psychopathy, sadism, spitefulness
 and others are among the traits of the malevolent side of human
> personality. As results from a recently published German-Danish research
> project show, these traits share a common "dark core." People with one of
> these tendencies are also likely to have one or more of the others.*

The rest / Re: Unsorted
« on: September 15, 2019, 11:44:29 AM »
I don't know where to post these sounds of the forest. A very good friend of mine have done some videos from his visit to my place last July. He likes showing nature to city's people. At least one of his books is well recommended in different universities (Etologia del lobo y del perro)(
These are kind of 'easy videos', not professional work, but maybe some would find them interesting.
Zorzal=Thrush ;    Curruca c.=Sylvia atricapilla= Eurasian Blackcap ;  Chochín=Troglodytes troglodytes=wern ; 
Mito=Aegithalos caudatus=long-tailed tit ;  Pollos=chicks
Constant noise of water (I'm close to a creek), very complex songs from the thrushes, and the 'orbayu' the very common misty rain that we enjoy.

The rest / Re: Is Man the "Unnatural Animal?"
« on: September 13, 2019, 01:22:42 PM »
Thank you Sidd. Some other news:
We know bees get the concept of zero and can do basic math. Now researchers have discovered they may also be capable of connecting symbols to numbers. It's a finding that sheds new light on how ...
Bees can solve seemingly clever counting tasks with very small numbers of nerve cells in their brains, according to researchers. In order to understand how bees count, the researchers simulated a ...
Scientists have discovered honeybees can understand the concept of zero, putting them in an elite club of clever animals that can grasp the abstract mathematical notion of nothing.
University of Alberta neuroscientists have identified the neural circuit that may underlay intelligence in birds, according to a new study. The discovery is an example of convergent evolution between the brains of birds and primates, with the potential to provide insight into the neural basis of human intelligence.
Study finds birds have design templates in their minds and may pass them on to future generations
Horses have joined a select group of animals that can communicate by pointing at symbols
Just when you think we know it all, researchers propose that insect brains support "a capacity for subjective experience."

The rest / Re: Is Man the "Unnatural Animal?"
« on: September 10, 2019, 11:29:29 AM »
Well, nanning, as I have no child, and won't have any, evolution stopped on me. But as evolution depends on a changing environment, something we're very good at, and my living stile tries not to disturb it, I think I'm out from evolutionary paths.
In the example about the river and the eddies, I see Nature as a big eddie from which other eddies are form. Each brain is an independent eddie. Each one produces it's own world. As far as we know now, no brain can yet spin without the help of the bigger eddie (nature). But looks like the tendency of these brain worlds is spinning independently from nature (already creating life in labs and ...). Now we are looking at AI as if we are creating a new spin off. Brains still need Nature, AI will need brains for quite a while (like Hall)
The tribes in the Amazon are playing their own evolutionary path (till now), because evolution is based in a changing environment and our environments have been pretty different for a while. But now we all are going to face a drastic change in our environments. And this change can be too fast for too many spicies to be able to adapt.

The rest / Re: Is Man the "Unnatural Animal?"
« on: September 06, 2019, 10:46:11 AM »
Again, completely agree with wdmn and binntho.
Even the "Mule" in Asimov trilogy was natural. Evolution is constantly coming out with billions of new outputs, those better adapted to their environment will have better chances of reproduction. Is not that difficult.

The rest / Re: Is Man the "Unnatural Animal?"
« on: September 05, 2019, 06:32:50 PM »


Which sounds very interesting and it so happens that I totally agree. But I do not understand your explanation Aporia_filia - I'm experiencing extreme aporia!

Fila from philia, love aporia because it raises new perspectives ;)

The rest / Re: Is Man the "Unnatural Animal?"
« on: September 05, 2019, 01:17:20 PM »
Quote"This is typical (human) group behaviour in all agricultura societies which really just proves the point: Individuals make choices, group behaviour is controlled by underlying forces that we are unable to control.

Therefore this path of development is not something that was chosen by any individual, nor was it chosen by the group (since the group can't choose). This becomes even clearer when you consider that no individual ever took a conscious decision to start this process, there was nobody who saw what the outcome would be and there was no planning involved. It just happened."

Totally agree!

The rest / Re: Is Man the "Unnatural Animal?"
« on: September 05, 2019, 11:29:42 AM »
Binntho, it looks as if you don't have or had much contact with animals. We known of some primates, not humans, who have learn dozens of words, their meaning and how to use them, and were even able to make simple sentences. Bees can make simple arithmetic operations. Cetaceans, cephalopods, corvidae, their thoughts and behavior is very complex. Although not as very, very complex as ours, probably. The complexity of the outcome of our brains is totally chaotic.

"Abstract" thoughts are not exclusive of humans. (prove me wrong ;-)

Life gathers in complex systems that naturally evolve to the transition phase at the edge of chaos. The output of our brains has grown exponentially following a chaotic path, but that doesn't give it a better perspective in terms of survival. More the opposite because this is what happens just before a change of states (a change into a different species).

Animals don't have to use the mental meaning of benefit because ALL living creatures grow looking for "Well-being". Read Antonio Damasio's "Looking for Spinoza"

And more important: I had a lovely naughty donky who was, at least, as intelligent as most politicians, and was much, much funnier!  :D

The rest / Re: Is Man the "Unnatural Animal?"
« on: September 04, 2019, 10:53:04 AM »
Haven't read the whole thread. It's clear Binntho, that you know what you're talking about and that you have thought a lot about these subjects. As it's obvious, here is where language usually makes people loose track of the main ideas. I'll try to make simple propositions.
IMHO all living creatures enjoy (?) some kind of consciousness.
"Consciousness seems mysterious. By this we mean that while life in general can be explained by physics, chemistry and biology, it seems that whenever one tries to explain the relationship between the brain and the subjective events that are experienced as feelings—what philosophers often refer to as “qualia”—something appears to be “left out” of the explanation. This apparent divide between the brain and subjective experience is what philosopher Joseph Levine famously called this the “explanatory gap,” and how to bridge that gap is what philosopher David Chalmers called the term “hard problem of consciousness.”
IMHO the main difference between non-human brain and ours is that non-humans do not question their environment, they just try to adapt to it. We, otherwise, try to adapt the environment to our mental world.
I find extremely difficult to imagine that brains that are built like ours, with the same physiology, the same ontology, the same neurotransmitters, the same senses... do not work in the same manner. Obviously every species with it's own personality.
It's a cultural disgrace of our hubris thinking that we are different because we are better.

Fine for me. Is easily accessible by Amazon.
The book, albeit is written by someone who has use his paid work in the university to achieve the knowledge to write it. If I'm not mistaken. And Springer is not a fairy.
But don't want to break any law  :-X

The forum / Re: Forum Decorum
« on: September 02, 2019, 11:39:52 AM »
I know many users dislike the Like system as it reminds of social media and frivolities rather than science. If you look at some of the traditional top posters that "ruled" the forum, posters whom I highly admire, you will see zero or near-zero likes given. I can identify with this approach, as I dislike social media and its frivolities.
However, I personally do use it to show appreciation without constantly derailing threads, and to give active and contributing posters a positive feedback. I use an adaptive threshold algorithm: I especially give Likes to new users, but require progressively higher contributions from top posters.
I mostly Like posts that are very much spot on when dealing with difficult to explain subjects, that bring a personal perspective or real life case pertinent to the discussion, or that take an effort to generate (number crunching, complex graphs, animations, repetitive daily or weekly updates of an important topic).
I agree with the beginning of the quote, but also feel sorry for not using the like. I love Terry's Ramen!!! You can see what is liked and who likes. I don't have enough time to log in, read and write back all I find very interesting. Reading something that was written some days ago and bringing it back just for that feels a bit unpolite.
The information you can take from the likes is very, very, biased. Older people use it less than youngers, you have admitted that you use it as a tool to encourage new members. All years before likes are ignored... Anyway, for me, just not knowing what is liked makes this option a superficial social game which is only interesting for Facebook's obscure knowledge. I don't think it is very healthy for social purposes. Here it shouldn't be a matter of being more socially attractive, but of offering more interesting things. The importance is in the message not in the messenger.

Policy and solutions / Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
« on: September 01, 2019, 11:19:25 AM »
Sorry if I'm a bit persistent about asking you to think of human species as something different to human individuals. (I'll try to post a doc showing the difference between a bee hive and a bee as an individual).
It doesn't matters if you're wrong or right, but at certain  point we all love arguing about the sex of the Angels. When we all know they don't exist!!!
It is a social, very deeply attached, characteristic of us humans. The nicer speech (this involves a lot of speech's characteristics) will win social acceptation, giving a higher social status to the person who made it, even if he was just defending that all angels are female.
Greta is not as affected as the rest of us about this social behavioral primate's constriction. She wouldn't waist her time discussing Angel's sex. She's just telling what's important without a lot of the emotional restrictions the rest of us have.
Don't argue about angels and ACT!!!

Walking the walk / Re: Gardening
« on: August 30, 2019, 10:55:03 AM »
Good Land Management to Reduce Disasters in Tajikistan (2015). Video (10:00). 

Don't miss this one  ;). Allow biodiversity and a bit of common sense and the difference is enormous.

Walking the walk / Re: Gardening
« on: August 30, 2019, 10:15:20 AM »
Sorry, for some reason the last video is not complete. But here in the attachment you can find some more info about different life forms in the soil (Macrofauna)

This is a very interesting video comparing old agricultural practices with modern industrial agriculture and what it means to soil:
RECARE Project-Soil Erosion in Spain (2015). Video (8:26).  

Walking the walk / Re: Gardening
« on: August 29, 2019, 02:45:49 PM »
Another one

Walking the walk / Re: Gardening
« on: August 29, 2019, 02:38:27 PM »
Wageningen University has a lot of different free on-line courses. I found "Soil4Life" a fantastic introduction to knowledge about soils. As they are free I suppose they wouldn't mind if I share some of the videos with you. The course, of course, offers lots of ways to find more information about specific items. I encourage you all to have a look at their offer.

Walking the walk / Re: Gardening
« on: August 29, 2019, 02:05:55 PM »
There is a not well known agricultural approach called syntropic agriculture. Also suitable for gardens. I'm learning from it and trying different seeds before really starting a project.
As you all know, the soil is the main part in the game. With this theory you try to copy the behavior of a forest but using all edible varieties you can. So you don't touch the soil, only adding mulch, and when it goes on it's own you wouldn't even have to add compost or manure.

Consequences / Re: Prepping for Collapse
« on: August 08, 2019, 11:58:43 AM »
Yeah, nanning, I agree.
If you don't try LSD or if you don't ever fall in love, you wouldn't know what a high in drugs means.
Unless you move away from civilization in a spiritual and physical way, you wouldn't feel that deep contact with nature that makes you feel so complete and serene.

The rest / Re: Climate change activists should not fly
« on: August 02, 2019, 11:45:45 AM »
Well Rod, maybe you've given us the best example to understand why we're doomed. An intelligent person with worries about climate change saying he won't change his way of polluting because we need to do so in order to achieve a proper way of living.
More than 20 years ago I worked in Greenpeace ships, even as captain. The reason to leave then was their refusal to abandon fosil fuels. I even presented them a project to study the use of H-cells in their ships, with the help of Sociedad Española del Hidrógeno. We had a ketch to play with it. They were more interested in finding a way to a front page (to rise more members) than really solving the problems of using fuels. They needed fossil fuels to save this world!!!
I child can understand how idiots they were (and still are), just a self preserving entity (till everything collapse).
A human canon.

(Edited a name)

Consequences / Re: Prepping for Collapse
« on: July 21, 2019, 02:59:52 PM »
Thank you Oren, very much appreciate you.
Thank you Sidd, that kind of knowledge that you share is something I love. Were you the one from whom I have this link?:

Thaks also Terry, reducing our consumption should be a must.

The rest / Re: Good music
« on: July 19, 2019, 05:10:44 PM »
Good music, better lyrics

Consequences / Re: Prepping for Collapse
« on: July 19, 2019, 02:05:41 PM »
Could the best prepping be adapting to the new, and stopping bad habits?
Not that long ago (and still nowadays) there were other totally fulfilling ways of living. And please, forget the Amish stereotype. Three short stories:
In 1997 a was part of the crew of a three masts ship. We went to the Marshall Islands to take back some islander families to their old island. As they had been all relocated when the nuclear tests were performed. After USA cleaned the beaches of their old island and declared them radioactive free.
I was on duty the first night we were in the atoll and an old islander, with a bit too much alcohol in him, came to tell me that they didn't need any help. The only thing they needed was us all, the 'civilized occidentals' leaving those islands for ever and letting them live their traditional way. The arrival of modernity was the end of their paradise.He was crying.

About 12 years ago one of my teachers, an old shepherd, told me how with 100 sheep he was able to build his house, marry, and send their two daughters to university. An orchard and a bit of communal work was in the mix. By the time he was telling this to me, he also said that these days, with 100 sheep, he would not be able to earn any money. Because of how the system works with grants and tons of bureaucracy. Also, wool has no market nowadays, overtaken by plastic fibers.

At about the same time, another of my teachers, also an old man who worked in the fields since he was 6, was always complaining about modern agriculture. He told me how when he was young there were no pests. Fruits and vegetables had plenty of flavor and life was hard but easier. He's favorite saying was: "this all went fucked when the first tractor came in, bringing poisons and chemicals to add to the soils".

Prepping is mainly psychological, we can live happy lives with very little.

(I live now in Asturias mountains, north Spain, very rainy, green as Ireland. Have a washing machine, a big fridge, the laptop and a few electric tools. My PV array is 2.700Wp and 900A -C100 batteries (48V). This is my second year here and I haven't seeing my batteries under 90% capacity. Adapt, adapt and adapt

Consequences / Re: Prepping for Collapse
« on: July 17, 2019, 05:24:29 PM »
We can imagine, dream, have great ideas about how to make a (brave) great new world. We can take important personal decisions on the way we live. Although, I think this will only have a solution in geological time. The problem is global so it is the human spices not the people (as we inevitably tend to think), the one that should change. We are the same people we were 2.000 years ago (or 20.000). Do your best but I'm afraid only evolution could give a chance to humans. Remember that the longest living creatures in the history of this planet are those with fewer energy needs.
"Looking at a period of roughly 5 million years from the mid-Pliocene to the present, the researchers analyzed 299 species' metabolic rates -- or, the amount of energy the organisms need to live their daily lives -- and found higher metabolic rates were a reliable predictor of extinction likelihood."

Consequences / Re: Prepping for Collapse
« on: July 15, 2019, 11:07:35 AM »
Very glad to know about you Nanning. As an answer to El Cid (=Matamoros, hope your not one of them)
I only have water from a spring, I have an useless arrow because I have hens, although only eat their eggs. I'm becoming an expert eating wild mushrooms (till i dye). Fresh and dry wild fruits, snails, ants, are good nourishment...
PV plaques are my only energy supply. No ICE generator. No roads...
Bruce, Nanning, Sidd, and others would understand that at the end of the day this way of living, trying to fuse into your environment is hard but very rewarding. Like running a marathon. Is natural and fulfill your spirit in a way that no modern commodity would. So, we're not part of the problem, and at the same time life is marvellous around us.
Is not a mater of winning or loosing (as Nanning ironically points), is a mater of getting rid of a lot of cultural crap and finding your true nature.
(Sorry for my dreadful English)

The forum / Re: Forum Decorum
« on: July 02, 2019, 01:04:47 PM »
I first sent a message to this forum a few years ago. Saying how much I love sharing knowledge, which is what has made us special as an animal. If you have an open space like this you'll get people with a lot of knowledge and others like me, always wanting to know more. Conscious of how the volume of my ignorance grows with the radius of my knowledge.
My personal situation, I lost my eco-farm and house, now living in an old mountain stone barn, 25sq meters, without any income, living on nature and some savings, has made me stay away from this forum actively. Kept reading all of it when I could. Now I've managed the cheapest satellite connection and can throw my two pence in.
I did suffer the violent speech of people like Hyperion or Lurk(s). Everyone knows that's not what keeps the health of a group.
I did and do suffer because of A-team's ego. Arrogance, contempt, egotism, should not be well accepted. They also harm any healthy group. There is a little line separating well intended sharing of knowledge and simply trying to show off. I'm afraid A-team has a big problem concerning his personality and what he thinks of others.
There're a few posts in this forum showing how elitism is damaging our society. IMHO elitism would harm this forum as well.
If we are worried about Earth future, (we're included), should NOT we try to TEACH what we know? Or should we?
My intention is not insulting anyone.
(My love to Bruce Steel and a few others)

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