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Messages - zizek

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Policy and solutions / Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
« on: July 29, 2020, 01:20:38 PM »
I would consider that a win for the pro Tesla camp.
I will quite happily present actual scientific study's and real world verifiable data to back my opinion As will the rest of you.
Don't expect zizek to pay up .
They never do .....

...... Do I really have to explain to you what happens when a large corporation is in direct competition with poorly funded public services? The year is 2020 and you would think after decades of austerity leading to the privatization of services from health care to infrastructure which have lead to horrible outcomes we would get the picture already..... But I guess this time things will be different??!?!

Here's a little primer of Musk's vision:

<Moved this from the Tesla thread since most of the articles are about Uber and none quote Elon. The whole business model and what it does to society and who is actually funding it are interesting. kassy>

Policy and solutions / Re: Tesla glory/failure
« on: July 28, 2020, 05:07:01 PM »
A single drop of evidence that personal car ownership over public transport will beat climate change. Anything. Please. For the love of god. Will this forum that prides itself as a scientific forum give me a single piece of evidence.
AKA construct a straw man and expect us to demolish it for you.
Your imagination you deal with it.

 More people use personal cars than public transport every day.
Replacing ice cars with electric ones is a win for climate change .
Musk is proposing to make personal ownership of cars obsolete. As a personal  car is used about 2% of the time increasing  that usage rate by a large margin makes better use of the emissions inherent in its construction. Another win for climate change.

Your straw man presents a binary option private cars / public transport.
This is a technique common with deniers ...pick only  only one technology then state it will not solve climate change alone so is not worth pursuing.
In the real world a range of solutions will limit our emissions  not any one technology by itself .

But Teslais not providing a range of solution. This binary issue is being created by Tesla, not me. Musk wants to replace public transport with private transport. Personal car ownership and the suburban lifestyle is a problem that must be confronted. Building more cars is not sustainable, electric or not......

Policy and solutions / Re: Tesla glory/failure
« on: July 28, 2020, 04:55:35 PM »
Zizek, you assume that Tesla is about replacing mass transport with individual transport.

Let me counter your claim.  You provide evidence that this is the Tesla goal.  After all nearly 90m personal vehicles are sold per year.  Removing mass transport would have to raise that figure to hundreds of millions.

Show me where that is identified as a goal.

Most mass transport is already electric (rail), or moving that way (busses with 0 or significantly reduced emissions).

If you can't prove that Tesla intends to replace mass transport with personal electric vehicles, then I just have to assume that you don't like Musk and are making statements.

Where have I heard that before??

I literally included Musk's tweet saying "individualized mass transport is the future". This is the post you're replying to. I'm not sure how I can make this any more clear.

And I've posted this numerous times in this thread.....

also, i can't find it now, but in a post by Tesla they talk about having a car in every driveway, or something along those lines. I've posted it here before.

Policy and solutions / Re: Tesla glory/failure
« on: July 28, 2020, 02:21:39 PM »
Tesla is a real solution to climate change.

If anybody on this forum could provide me with any evidence that Musk's approach of "individualized mass transport" ( aka. replacing public transport with electric cars will meet 1.5, let alone 2.0°C targets I will use my own credit cards to purchase them one Tesla share. Anybody, anywhere, please give me one convincing study that shows how we can beat climate change by building 7.5 billion electric cars. I will eat my hat, i will do anything. i will give you all my worldly possessions. I will make love to you. I will do anything you want. Just show me any evidence. A single drop of evidence that personal car ownership over public transport will beat climate change. Anything. Please. For the love of god. Will this forum that prides itself as a scientific forum give me a single piece of evidence.

Policy and solutions / Re: Tesla glory/failure
« on: July 28, 2020, 02:09:53 PM »
All manufacturers of a certain size fund political parties.  Usually they fund both at the same time but for a new and growing company this akes little sense because the Republicans are the party most likely to pass legislation that keep them in business.

These donations are not about politics, as such, they are simple. Business decisions.

"Political contributions are not political when done by big businesses. they are simply business decisions"
See me after class.... F-

Policy and solutions / Re: Tesla glory/failure
« on: July 27, 2020, 01:40:40 PM »
I think it is Tesla's failure to be congratulated by the murderous tyrant.
From Trump on twitter:

Great job by @elonmusk in agreeing to build, in TEXAS, what is expected to be the largest auto plant anywhere in the world. He kept his word to me. Texas & @Tesla are big winners. MADE IN THE USA!

To which Musk replied:
Thank you on behalf of the Tesla team. We look forward to building Giga Texas!

I'm so sad to see this happenning. Elon Musk is helping Trump enact the "meat grinder" c19 strategy to gain favor for Tesla Inc.

Can he really not bend the knee to the tyrant without bringing even more risk to Tesla? I think he could make a stand. Tesla inc does not need the tyrant's help. So that leads me to the conclusion he doesn't want to. Why?

Trump will steal the elections and enact Trumpmerica. I guess Elon wants dibs on the crumbles that fall of trump's table. The price he pays is too high.

Remember when Musk donated almost $100,000 to Trump's republicans? if I remember correctly, the ASIF pro-Tesla take was that Musk was just "playing the game" to promote his business. Ends justify the means etc. etc.

Archimid, I respect that you are spending more time questioning Musk after his C19 posts and now this. I hope you are realizing some of the issues tied up with Musk and his vision.


Anyways. I'm glad we spent years arguing over Musks' and Tesla's intentions. The amount of energy this forum spent defending musk instead of focusing on real solutions like public transport really sobers any hope of defeating climate change. Now we're left with this:

You would think some of the pro-tesla posters would show a more humility after Musk criticized lockdown orders so he could keep his factory open. And went as far as firing employees for not following Tesla's own guidance.....

Glad Musk et al. encouraged America to open up. Things are looking great for the United States. If the goal of beating climate change is to kill as many people as possible, than maybe Musk really is a hero.

Policy and solutions / Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« on: January 19, 2020, 02:58:12 PM »
If you don't want the financial sector to grow too large, you need to deconcentrate wealth by capping it on  the individual level. There's no other way.
There's no other way? Once again, Cuba doesn't need any sort of hamfisted bureaucratic easily loopholed "cap", they just use a different economic system.... It's that easy mate.
And another reminder, because Cuba's economic system doesn't revolve around profits, they have managed to produce the most impressive climate action plan of any state in the world. They did that while under decades of crippling sanctions from a global superpower.

I'm honestly curious how you think that every nation governing almost 8 billion people are going to implement a worldwide wealth tax. Don't you think it's easier just to change our economic system?

Policy and solutions / Re: Extinction Rebellion
« on: January 15, 2020, 01:45:38 PM »
Identity politics is a device for splitting groups that share interests so that they can be better managed and their impact reduced/co-opted/nullified. That's why neoliberal media outlets, corporations and other elites fully support it. It also focuses on the individual, rather than the group, matching the "no society" assumptions of neoliberal economics and ideology - a marriage made in hell.

So yes, lets all waste time calling each other names rather than addressing the people hiding behind the proverbial curtain. Some thoughts:
- An economic and political elite instigated the neoliberal revolution that screwed everyone else including the "boomers" the "millenials", "generation X" etc. etc.
- A working class lesbian has way more in common with a working class straight white man than mega-rich war-criminal loving Ellen Degeneres
- A middle aged working class black man has way more in common with a white 20-year old Barista (who works their ass off for peanuts) than elite-courtier and warmonger Barack Obama.
- 98-99% of the population is born male or female, straight, gay or bisexual and quite comfortable with that reality. So yes, the problems that many transexuals have in our society are real but that does not mean that we all have to be "woke" (and Martina Navratilova is a hero of the lesbian movement not a "transphobic" for believing in the concept of biological sex).

Apologies for the diatribe, bit I spend my days in North American academia and see so much energy being displayed on anything but climate change and economic inequality.

So all you boomers (including straight me) from what I see most young people have a really shitty time of it compared to what we had (unless they have rich parents of course) and they work pretty damn hard. They certainly seem to be doing less "drugs and rock and roll" than I did in my youth. To all you "young" people, cut that boomer shit out and understand that we mainly share interests across the age spectrum.

I will now return to the demise of our civilization due to unchecked exponential growth and ecological destruction ...
I agree with the part of identity politics. It's a good way to atomize the leftist movement and shift the attention away from economic issues.

But you're making a big mistake that young people can identify with your generation. It's not just about age. It's about your position in a class society. How many boomers do you know gain income from rent and financial speculation? I'm guessing around 100%.....
NeilT is a great example of somebody who doesn't see anything wrong with owning multiple properties and speculating on them.  Nobody on these forums confronts him because a lot of you are in the same boat.....
Just look how your generation voted in the last UK election.

It's not about age. It's not about identity. It's about your class position. It's about your relationship with capital. A boomer that owns 2 or 3 properties and hundreds of thousands in investments has far more in common with the the superwealthy than a 20 year old black barista. I'd like to see you convince me otherwise. Just look at this fucking graph....

To all you "young" people, cut that boomer shit out and understand that we mainly share interests across the age spectrum.

you think you can seriously sell this bullshit to zoomers? That you are a lot more alike than you think? You know, while they have no job prospects, price of living is astronomical, housing is impossible, climate change is going to cook them before retirement but not before fascism rips their souls out. While your generation had everything handed to you, then you did everything in your power to rip it away from us.

Maybe I'd buy your bullshit if there was some leadership among your generation in confronting our current economic and environmental challenges. Admit there is a problem with your generation. Challenge yourself, your colleagues, your friends, your family, your community. You have all the power to do so. Start now, and maybe the new generations won't rip your throat out.

Policy and solutions / Re: Extinction Rebellion
« on: January 08, 2020, 03:29:16 PM »
woops. I was supposed to post this in the Greta thread.

sidd's post are A+. Unfortunately are is a loud group of people here that chose not to read them.

Policy and solutions / Re: Extinction Rebellion
« on: January 06, 2020, 03:49:59 PM »
I'm amazed how much Thunberg's campaign has inspired young teenagers to become committed activists. They are smart, organized, and willing to fight. The zoomers are starting to outnumber the millennial activists like myself. And I couldn't be happier.

I took a break from these forums because it was destroying my brain. I'm glad to see that it's still a bunch of boomers endlessly posting corporate propaganda and promoting capitalism.
The discourse in this forum is one of the biggest obstacles to fighting climate change. People claiming they want to fight climate change while desperately clinging to the status quo. Trying to find the right technocratic fix to solve our fucked up society. It's never going to happen.

Consequences / Re: Prepping for Collapse
« on: September 10, 2019, 05:02:13 AM »
I think some of you are confusing liberal denial with "left-wing denial".

Policy and solutions / Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« on: July 02, 2019, 01:53:37 PM »

From your comment I take it that you can't identify a country.  That's OK, I haven't been able to either.


It's weird you claim these people were coerced to support communism when the majority of these people want to go back to communism.
And I don't discount the awful use of secret police and intelligence gathering during the Soviet era. but it's no different than what that CIA or NSA does. The CIA murdered revolutionaries and black power leaders. The CIA killed in the name of white supremacy and for the wealthy. The KGB spied because they were paranoid to the point of insanity from the encirclement and sabotage of American espionage. Communist countries were forced to deal with the real threat of of America trying to destroy their movement. It breeds the conditions for the spying that you claim to despise. Had America and colonial powers left communist states to their own devices, those states wouldn't be constantly forced to use shitty measures to counter American influence.

And what about China? Do you think every Chinese person is being coerced to support communism?

Or Cuba ?!

Or Burkina Faso?

Or Bolivia?

Given that most of the world's countries are based on capitalism I'm having a bit of a problem believing that capitalism has never worked. 

Well, Bob, the thing is, and I don't know if you've heard, but we're currently facing an existential crisis that threatens the existence of humanity. Because capitalism has caused us to lose any democratic control over our industry and environment, it's making it effectively impossible to deal with this crisis.  So, if causing the destruction of the only intelligent life in the universe is considered "working", then you must be one hell of a masochist. 

Policy and solutions / Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« on: July 02, 2019, 03:25:42 AM »
Holy shit. The Americans were explicitly fighting against communism.  This isn't a god Damn secret. This was public doctrine.  What the fuck do you think they killed millions of people for? Because they liked the beaches? God Damn Bob. You need to read a fucking book.

Policy and solutions / Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« on: June 27, 2019, 01:22:08 AM »
that sure does sound great doesnt it bobby!

Policy and solutions / Re: Extinction Rebellion
« on: June 17, 2019, 03:49:22 AM »
Fortunately, since most people on this forum are white wealthy westerners, you are positioned to avoid the worst of it, maybe even economically benefit from climate change. Just don't rock the boat!

BAU will result in the collapse of the system of capitalism. No one will benefit economically.
Before we experience a complete collapse of capitalism, there will be a transition to different forms of fascism/ecofascism. None of this is going to happen overnight. We're already seeing the beginning of fascism seeping through the cracks of failing liberal states. While many people are discussing climate change/environmental crisis in the terms of eugenics, degrowth, and blaming developing nations like India

Lots of opportunities to benefit economically in the climate change crisis.  Just look at the hysteria surrounding Musk. People are lining up to throw money at this guy because he's claiming he can save the world.  The man got his fortune from apartheid gem mining in Africa and flies around in a private jet. Nobody gives a shit about his background or intentions. They just want to be saved. Whatever the cost.

Policy and solutions / Re: Extinction Rebellion
« on: June 16, 2019, 11:44:24 PM »
Don't know about Gandhi, but there are also rich and powerful people supporting Greta, otherwise she would still be with a smal group of people in Stockholm. Having been active against different projects, I know the difference if there is support or not. As an activist, you can contact the press, but you don't choose if and how you are published.
I agree that some secrecy might be needed in order to be able to inform of future events.

I suspect quite a number of oligarchs would prefer to avoid collapse of civilization, too.

Uh, yeah. Rich people want to persist just like everyone else. But they want to do it on their terms. They're fine with the wholesale death and destruction of entire nations or even continents. They're completely fine with enslaving people to build their solar farms and hydro dams. Their completely okay with stealing minerals to build batteries for their cars.

History has shown/is showing us that powerful people will inflict horrible suffering in order to extract wealth. This will not change with climate change, it will only further embolden them, as they watch people become more and more desperate for a savior.

Fortunately, since most people on this forum are white wealthy westerners, you are positioned to avoid the worst of it, maybe even economically benefit from climate change. Just don't rock the boat!

The politics / Re: Economic Inequality
« on: June 16, 2019, 03:32:55 PM »

10-100 million while part of it in an enterprise is NOT concentrated wealth, those are people who often run a family business over generations and EARNED some wealth.

Yes, generational wealth. They definitely earned it. Not the black slaves who built their factories and picked their cotton. Not the indigenous people who were raped, enslaved, and stolen of their resources and land.  Not the Bangladesh worker who's forced into factory.  Not the Iraqi that ate white phosphorous so we could steal their oil. Not the Honduran who drinks from poisoned wells caused by neocolonialist mining projects.

There's no such thing as honest earned wealth in an inherently exploitative economic system. Even for the many members of this board who own investment/rent-seeking properties.  They use their excess capital to purchase additional properties, driving up rent and housing costs, further immiserating the people who can not afford to participate in the system.

Policy and solutions / Re: Extinction Rebellion
« on: June 16, 2019, 03:00:57 PM »
The slaughter of people defending their land or environment continued unabated in 2017, with new research showing almost four people a week were killed worldwide in struggles against mines, plantations, poachers and infrastructure projects.

And who trained and supported the people murdering environmentalists in Honduras. Obama and Clinton's United States of America:

And the United States makes the lives of domestic environmental activists extremely difficult by jailing them, or putting them through a very expensive and long-lasting legal process.

And in Canada, we don't really consider indigenous people as people, especially the activists.

The rest / Re: SpaceX
« on: June 04, 2019, 02:06:40 AM »
Link to accurate estimates

The Carbon Capture & Storage Association (CCSA) estimated that the earlier CCS projects in the power sector would cost between €60–€90 per tonne of carbon dioxide abated, the equivalent of around $69-$103 per tonne.

The association also predicted that these costs will decline to €35–€50 ($40-$57) in the early 2020s, thanks to technological advancements.

That is, even at best, this technology costs $ 40 per ton. And humanity has emitted into the atmosphere about a trillion tons of carbon dioxide. It means that its binding will cost the world economy 40 trillion dollars or half of today's GDP of the planet.

In the future, this amount will only increase. In this regard, that the climatic problems on Earth can be solved completely unknown. But space colonization offers a completely technically feasible solution.

This is insane

The United States Military budget is enough money to decarbonize the entire developing world's electrical grid.

BAU is genocide.  So is eliminating food and transportation for 7 billion people without replacement technologies.

1/3 of all food produced is wasted. Yet, 850 million people are going to bed hungry, and 9 million people die of hunger each year.

From the ER thread:
Politics, economics and culture all need energy, plastics, transportation, healthcare, education and food. All those things in turn have the potential for CO2 emissions.

That is a wicked problem because it can't be solved with political campaigns, economic policy or cultural shifts alone. The problem must be solved by using science and engineering before politics, economics and culture changes can implement the solution.

Are you a robot Archimid? You are completely obsessed with technology and lack any faith in humanity. I think the only time you mention a person/movement that can help stop climate change is Elon Musk. I'm concerned that you're fixated on something that is eventually going to disappoint you and hurt you badly.

<snip, this goes for all of us; N.>

The rest / Re: SpaceX
« on: April 10, 2019, 05:09:40 AM »
It's amazing that we just shamelessly post corporate propaganda on the forums. SpaceX of all things.... A corporation that's in the business of space tourism - probably one of the most carbon intensive activities known to mankind.

This place is such a joke.

Policy and solutions / Re: Tesla glory/failure
« on: February 26, 2019, 06:18:53 AM »
You have no idea what you're talking about and you're just spewing nonsense and embarrassing yourself

Policy and solutions / Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« on: February 24, 2019, 03:56:04 AM »
Oh my god, someone has created AI bots with multiple names like Zizek, GoSouthYoungins, Lurk ... just not sure whether funded by Tesla shorts or by FF interests trying to ruin the signal to noise ratio here on Neven's blog by posts and by deliberate flailing wind up attempts.

How is this sort of post contributing anything?

No I don't really think so, but it feels like it sometimes.

Yeah, sorry for criticizing the echo chamber of technofetish capitalists. Next friday I'll be receiving my cheque from the fossil fuel industry and investment bankers for.....

*checks notes*

calling for a revolutionary action against capitalism

hmmm. interesting priorities they have these days.

Policy and solutions / Re: Tesla glory/failure
« on: February 23, 2019, 04:30:00 AM »
At first you were willing to take anything Tesla and the NHTSA said at face value.
Not true.
And now, a 13% sample of the data is not good enough to draw any reasonable conclusions? What hell is that? I didn't know you were such an expert in vehicle collision safety. Can you please explain to the class why 5,700 vehicles is not good enough for you? Especially considering it's the only data we can go by?
Table 2 in the report will easily explain why the NHTSA methodology was wrong, but also why the opposite conclusion is not true as well, and why the discarded data shows that the kept data is problematic as well.
Fig.1 is the kept data, that is supposedly totally accurate. It has 0.76 deployments/million miles before auto-steer, and 1.21 dep/mil after auto-steer, so supposedly an increase in deployments after auto-steer.
Figs. 2,3,4 contain the discarded data, where the NHTSA did not assign proper mileage to the before category, and in parts of the data also to the after category. However, it is easy to see that the rates of deployment for the after category are in the range of 0.6-0.8 dep/mil, thereby showing that the result of the kept subset wherein the after rate was 1.21 dep/mil is out of line, and probably suffers from data errors/biases as well, errors that the report failed to consider in its assumptions.
The best conclusion from the partial and faulty data is that the airbag deployment rate was and still remained ~0.7-0.8 deployments/million miles before and after auto-steer.
Note: I do get the feeling that the report writer was happy not to stress this conclusion clearly, as the resulting headlines would have been much less juicy.
Note 2: I believe Tesla is releasing uninformative safety data, while making various statistical safety claims based on said data. Without access to the underlying detailed data it is impossible to verify Tesla's claims, and I suspect Tesla's claims are based on conveniently faulty analysis. (To be clear, this also was my thinking before this report came along).

Okay I see. So, because incomplete data doesn't match the complete data. Then any conclusions based on the complete data is FUD. cool. got it.

According to you, if I'm a car manufacturer and I want to give myself a nice safety rating I just have to follow these easy steps:

1) Gather crash and mileage data. Ooops. Looks like our crash rate is higher than the national average. So let's provide only a small set of complete data. So proceed to step 2
2) Create another set of data that may be incomplete, but has crash rates in line with national averages.
3) Success! If somebody asks why our complete data has a higher crash rates than average, take your finger and press it against their mouth, and say shhhhhhhh. "but look at the incomplete data, it's good. and therefore, you can't draw any conclusions. Other than we're likely to be good. Cause this stuff is good, and the bad stuff, just ignore that stuff"

Policy and solutions / Re: Tesla glory/failure
« on: February 20, 2019, 04:54:53 AM »
In other news:

-new estimates of Tesla US inventory have grown to over 10,000.

-it has become known that AutoPilot is actually more dangerous than no AutoPilot
I have no knowledge of the other info you posted, but these two pieces are from FUD sources as far as I am aware, certainly the second one.

What's the point of the Tesla Glory/Failure thread if nobody actually bothers to read any the negative Tesla articles
You actually replied directly to the post I linked the autopilot report:

In 2017, the feds said Tesla Autopilot cut crashes 40%—that was bogus

But now NHTSA's raw data set is available, and, if anything, it appears to contradict Musk's claims. The majority of the vehicles in the Tesla data set suffered from missing data or other problems that made it impossible to say whether the activation of Autosteer increased or decreased the crash rate. But when QCS focused on 5,714 vehicles whose data didn't suffer from these problems, it found that the activation of Autosteer actually increased crash rates by 59 percent.

arstechnica is definitely not what I would classify as FUD. And if you can explain to me how this report:
is FUD.  I'll offer the same wager to Rob to you.  $50 dollars to an org of your choice. Prove to me how this report can be classified as fear, uncertainty, or doubt. Give me some evidence. We are on a science-based forum after all.

Or maybe I don't understand your definition of FUD. Is FUD simply anything that casts Musk and Tesla in a negative light, even if it exposes lies and dishonesty? Any criticism, no matter the implications nor the quality of evidence, is simply cast aside as FUD. Why don't we just take it a step further and have Neven moderate any negative Musk discussion. Sticky this thread and let sigmetnow post in peace.

I just don't understand your obsession with Tesla, Oren. You're clearly a smart person, and have your head on straight about climate change. But your brain just switches off when anything Tesla/Musk related comes up .

I think you're missing the point zizek. There are hundreds of forum members who'd agree with you overall and who ignore this thread for good reasons. I did a scientific experiment by "testing the waters" to see what might show up only to find it poisoned beyond recovery. A waste of time iow.

All the facts data in the world will not make any difference to those who chose to argue the point with you. They don't care anyway and don't really think telsa will put a dint in agw/cc either nor make any real difference to anything else.   They just like to argue about issues that have nothing to do with telsa or evs. Sig seems to be stuck in the 2000s when reports about technical feasibility were more effective. Lost in the past iow. It used to be a barrier and now it's been swept away more or less leaving the really big important barriers more exposed. Rather than move on and address those unfortunately some here prefer to live in the past and keep up with old habits. Ever heard of big fish little pond? :)

Yeah, you're right.  Lately, I've been blocking this forum in my browser because every time I come here I just get frustrated and lose focus from my other work. But, I always find myself scratching the itch to see if anybody has learned any lessons. Nope.  Maybe I have to find a way to block myself from coming here for good. It will do me a lot of good.

Policy and solutions / Re: Tesla glory/failure
« on: February 20, 2019, 04:50:05 AM »
In other news:
-it has become known that AutoPilot is actually more dangerous than no AutoPilot
I have no knowledge of the other info you posted, but these two pieces are from FUD sources as far as I am aware, certainly the second one.
In 2017, the feds said Tesla Autopilot cut crashes 40%—that was bogus
But now NHTSA's raw data set is available, and, if anything, it appears to contradict Musk's claims. The majority of the vehicles in the Tesla data set suffered from missing data or other problems that made it impossible to say whether the activation of Autosteer increased or decreased the crash rate. But when QCS focused on 5,714 vehicles whose data didn't suffer from these problems, it found that the activation of Autosteer actually increased crash rates by 59 percent.

arstechnica is definitely not what I would classify as FUD. And if you can explain to me how this report:
is FUD.  I'll offer the same wager to Rob to you.  $50 dollars to an org of your choice. Prove to me how this report can be classified as fear, uncertainty, or doubt. Give me some evidence. We are on a science-based forum after all.
The report seems to follow scientific methodology though I have some criticism of it: for the claim quoted in arstechnica it takes only a 13% subset of the original data, and in the process discards quite a lot of useful though incomplete data. Checking this incomplete data as summarized in the report, shows that the 13% "complete" data is flawed as well, and that crash rates have not increased.
The report does prove that the NHTSA methodology was flawed, and that the conclusion that 2016 auto-steer reduced airbag deployment by 40% was wrong. It does not prove however that the crash rate increased. The data is simply not sufficient to conclude one way or the other.
The headlines reporting on the report have focused on a few lines from the report, not digging deeper, as headlines do. And selective reading of headlines did the rest. Your bolded conclusion above is plain wrong, not supported by the report.
Another detail that seems to have been forgotten, is that all the data is based on an old version of Auto-pilot, released in 2016 based on older hardware and much older software than is being released today with Tesla vehicles. Again, details, boring details. Does the current AP reduce crash rates? Who knows?
I haven't seen supporting data for Tesla's claim that AP reduces crash rates, as Tesla's recently released data is highly insufficient for that conclusion. However, the reverse conclusion is also not supported. So summarizing the situation with your bolded statement above, is, to me, FUD.
Stop your bullshit. Stop moving the goal posts. At first you were willing to take anything Tesla and the NHTSA said at face value. And now, a 13% sample of the data is not good enough to draw any reasonable conclusions? What hell is that? I didn't know you were such an expert in vehicle collision safety. Can you please explain to the class why 5,700 vehicles is not good enough for you? Especially considering it's the only data we can go by?

And your excuse that the technology is old doesn't hold up. Because Tesla stood behind the report, and did everything they could do to make sure the raw data was never released. So if things got better, why don't they just release another report based off of their new technology? Give us the data? Although, considering how much they lie, I wouldn't doubt it if the data would be fudged.

Here's the page from the report that Oren likes to call FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD. Since you monkeys here don't actually like to read any links:

Once we received the data,20 we attempted to replicate NHTSA’s summaries21 of airbag deployments as well as mileage exposure before and after Autosteer in- stallation. We expected that the “Miles before Autosteer” exposure measure cal- culated by NHTSA would be equal to “Previous Mileage before Autosteer In- stall” reported by Tesla when mileage had been accumulated before Autosteer was installed. It was also our expectation that exposure “Miles after Autosteer” calculated by NHTSA would be equal to “The mileage of the vehicle at the last data retrieval” minus “Next Mileage after Autosteer Install” reported by Tesla when these data were not unknown, unreported, or otherwise missing for all of the vehicles studied.

In those cases where the “Previous Mileage before Autosteer Install” exactly equals “Next Mileage after Autosteer Install,” it can be inferred that Autosteer was actually installed at the reported mileage in each of these two fields. Figure 1 illustrates the calculation of exposure mileage in the cohort of vehicles where the odometer data at the time of installation is known, based on this inference. (Note that the mileage of the vehicle at the last data retrieval must also have been reported for the vehicles in Figure 1.) This method of calculation of exposure mileage was applicable only to 5,714 vehicles of the total 43,781 vehicles studied, 13 percent.22

Based on the data for crash rate numerators and denominators shown in Figure 1, the resulting calculations reveal a 59 percent increase in the airbag deployment crash rate from 0.76 per million miles of travel to 1.21 per million miles of travel following the installation of Autosteer. As explained below, this result is particu- larly important because it is the only vehicle cohort in the study with complete information for both before and after Autosteer crash rate calculations. Before and after comparisons of the resulting crash rates are unbiased by missing data for exposure mileage because there are no missing data in this subset of the data. This finding is the just the opposite of that claimed by NHTSA for the larger set of vehicles they studied.

We used logistic regression to measure the practical and statistical significance of Autosteer to this apparent difference in crash rates. Because the data do not re- cord the mileage at which an airbag deployed, we employed a method that trans- formed the dataset of 5,714 vehicles into two equal sized segments, “before” and “after” Autosteer. (In the transformed dataset of 11,428 observations, 3 cases have missing data where the last mileage retrieved is reported to equal the “Next mileage after Autosteer installation”). Each observation in the new dataset can be understood as a segment of exposure miles that either did or did not result in
an airbag deployment crash. Each observation contained the independent vari- ables, total “Exposure mileage” for the segment, “Autosteer installed” (equals 1 if so, zero otherwise), as well as the dependent variable of “Airbag deployed.”

The model estimated from these specific data helps to answer the question con- cerning NHTSA’s safety claim about Autosteer, “Is the installation of Autosteer associated with a decreased risk of an airbag deployment crash, controlling for exposure mileage?” The answer is “No.”

Table 1 demonstrates that Autosteer is actually associated with an increase in the odds ratio of airbag deployment by more than a factor of 2.4 (95% Confidence Interval: 1.57 - 3.8), when exposure mileage is taken into account. See Table 1.

Policy and solutions / Re: BAU until they peel my cold dead hands from it
« on: February 20, 2019, 03:12:01 AM »
The average American would rather murder 100 faceless brown people in a distant country than ride his fat ass to work. 

Policy and solutions / Re: BAU until they peel my cold dead hands from it
« on: February 20, 2019, 03:07:41 AM »
Genocide isn't just a hard pill to swallow. It's encoded into our culture. The settler state of America has been murdering entire groups of people for centuries, and has never stopped.  What do you think will change when climate change starts to really kick in? What do you think bloodthirsty Americans will be able to get away with when people start getting hungry, scarred, desperate. Look at 9/11, the government had carte blanche to murder whoever they please, they practically carpet bombed the entire middle east.

Unless these bloodthirsty maniacs are forced out of power, then genocide isn't just an option, it's a guarantee.

Policy and solutions / Re: BAU until they peel my cold dead hands from it
« on: February 20, 2019, 02:57:41 AM »
Genocide IS BAU. It's weird how quickly we forget current events or history when we sit so cozy in our homes.

The United States is assisting it's ally, Saudi Arabia, to use starvation as a weapon in the Yemen conflict. Millions of people are facing starvation, and tens of thousands have already died.

Let's move on to Elliot Abrams, who provided us with this little treat of history:
Reagan evaded Congressional oversight in order to provide Rios Montt with millions of dollars of military aid.  When Reagan and the general met in Honduras in December 1982, Reagan spoke warmly of him:

 “I know that President Rios Montt is a man of great personal integrity and commitment. I know he wants to improve the quality of life for all Guatemalans and to promote social justice. My administration will do all it can to support his progressive efforts.”Â Â

“The next day,” the London Review of Books reported in 2004, “one of Guatemala’s elite platoons entered a jungle village called Las Dos Erres and killed 162 of its inhabitants, 67 of them children.”Â  The report continued:

“Soldiers grabbed babies and toddlers by their legs, swung them in the air, and smashed their heads against a wall. Older children and adults were forced to kneel at the edge of a well, where a single blow from a sledgehammer sent them plummeting below. The platoon then raped a selection of women and girls it had saved for last, pummeling their stomachs in order to force the pregnant among them to miscarry.Â

“They tossed the women into the well and filled it with dirt, burying an unlucky few alive. The only traces of the bodies later visitors would find were blood on the walls and placentas and umbilical cords on the ground.”Â Â

On another occasion, Reagan claimed that the dictator was getting a “bum rap.”

In 1983, then assistant secretary of state Elliott Abrams told PBS, “ “the amount of killing of innocent civilians is being reduced step by step”¦. We think that kind of progress needs to be rewarded and encouraged.

What does Abrams do now? Well he's the special envoy to the current Venezuelan crisis. He's in charge of the sanctions with the goal of starving her citizens so they revolt against their non-west-aligned government, with the final hope of installing a neoliberal friendly puppet, just like  Guatemala, Honduras, and so many other places.

Policy and solutions / Re: Tesla glory/failure
« on: February 16, 2019, 10:46:33 PM »
<instead of just snipping, I've copied your comment to here; N.>

Policy and solutions / Re: Tesla glory/failure
« on: February 04, 2019, 09:28:03 PM »
It is imperative that we recognize that there are wrong way and right ways to combat climate change. Billions of tax paying and private funds are being poured into EVs, especially Tesla and Elon Musk's little side projects. This money could be put towards public transportation, but instead, we get bizarre projects where he wants people to drive cars in underground tunnels, and not only that has gone on record opposing public transport.  This is a man who flies on a private jet. The world does not have the capacity for more cars. We need to move away from the suburban lifestyle. And Elon Musk is not offering an alternative to excessive consumption, but rather a very expensive replacement to a single problem that exists within a much bigger picture.

Consequences / Re: The Holocene Extinction
« on: December 17, 2018, 02:40:56 PM »
Wealth is not the problem. Unchecked greed is. The world economy can grow indefinitely if the limits of growth imposed by nature are acknowledge and designed for.
This doesn't mean anything. You are just saying things that sound pleasant to you. None of this is rooted in reality. You need to pick up a book and read some history and theory.

Capitalism, socialism, communism are all meaningless distractions.
More gobbledygook. Our political economy is the foundation of how our society is structured. It is the core of every single interaction and decision we make.

Capitalism, socialism, communism are all meaningless distractions. Capitalism without Socialism becomes anarchy and implodes. Socialism without Capitalism is impossible because the leaders and the "party" end up rich while the people suffer scarcity.  It is always a spectrum. Things like transparency and accountability goes a much longer way than any Capitalist or Socialist utopic dream.
This cold-war propaganda bullshit on this forum is so tiring. It doesn't matter how much evidence I produce describing the inherently exploitative and destructive nature of capitalism, my arguments are always dashed away with this grade school "communist only works on paper, not in practice  heeyuck heeyuck" bullshit.  It's amazing how many users claim they use logic, reason, facts, science to make arguments. But when it comes to political economy, they just spew garbage they heard from Reagan and Thatcher and that's good enough for them.

Consequences / Re: The Holocene Extinction
« on: December 17, 2018, 02:24:42 PM »
Thank you for these.

Just to add to that. Johnson and Johnson knowingly selling baby powder with asbestos in it. For decades. And what's their punishment going to be? reduced stock prices? Some fines? Maybe white-collar jail time if they can figure out how to pin it on someone. Which is unlikely considering J&J have some of the most talented lawyers in the world.

There is never any justice in our system. Every single industry, so long as you meet a certain threshold of influence and power, gets away with anything they want. Climate change and pollution is no exception. The fossil fuel industry is going to get away with everything, hell, they might even come out of it even more powerful if they play their cards right with renewables.

And yet, we still find ourselves continually endorsing the system that created these monsters. And even better yet, we shift blame from them to the individual. "We're all a part of the system, we all deserve the responsibility".

The rich and powerful are causing an extinction event. And they know it. If it continues this way, they may just be responsible for destroying the only intelligent society in the universe.

What is our response to this?
"Let's take away some of their power"
"Let's tax them some more"
"Let's give them incentives to do something better!"
"Let's beg them to develop new technology to save us"

It's all so pathetic. None of this is going to age well. 

Consequences / Re: The Holocene Extinction
« on: December 16, 2018, 08:15:41 PM »
I just don't understand it. Whenever I'm talking to environmentalists, activists, and climate change scientists, they always call for bold and transformative action.  I just don't think they understand what it means to be "bold". I'm not convinced that a carbon tax or tax incentives are what I would call "bold". It sounds like trying to tackle climate change without rocking the boat. I think cowardly is a better term for it.

We're facing an extinction. Why can't we be creative and start talking about a radically different world? And I'm not going to deny that capitalism may be too resilient to ultimately defeat. But we need to start exposing its contradictions, its exploitation, and its destructive properties. It's incredibly difficult to do that when you're still endorsing the system by promoting half-measures like wealth caps and carbon taxes.

It's time we try something else.

The politics / Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« on: November 04, 2018, 01:35:51 PM »
I'm not sure what's better here. Rob on the verge of supporting an ISIS member to prove a point.  Or the irony of him requesting a formalized "innocent until proven guilty".
Just to remind our readers, Rob is a man who calls for war against nations based on evidence from open-sourced journalism. Rob is okay with bombing the shit out of countries because some non-arabic gamer in England posted a bunch of pictures with ms paint red circles. But when someone admits to being an ISIS member, talks about raping kurds, posts pictures of decapitated kurds - it's time give this guy the benefit of the doubt. Due process suddenly becomes important.

Those are the FACTS

Policy and solutions / Re: Extinction Rebellion
« on: November 02, 2018, 09:11:38 PM »
<Look, NeilT is doing the same thing as you, but doesn't use the curse words. I don't mind cursing all that much, but it does distract. And because it's a trigger for many people, they complain, and then Jim and I have to deal with that. I act when it becomes too much work to do nothing. So, if you just cut back on the direct insults, there's no need for banning, etc.

You also need to understand that if you want to save what can be salvaged, you won't do it by picking fights and venting frustrations in some online venue. Even if you can't convince the person you're discussing with, you may convince those who read along. But you won't if you curse too much. N.

PS as for my opinion: I agree with Neil that the truth is somewhere between your positions.>

Sorry. You're right. When someone equates socialism to nazism I should be gentle and nice.

This is a forum of respectable people that like to speak with logic and reason. Emotional outbursts should be kept to yourself. And as the world descends into fascism, violence, and environmental chaos, make sure you present yourself as a pragmatic high-class citizen. The Trumps, the Bolsonaros, and the Dutertes only listen to polite language. 

Fascism continues to strengthen its grip across a convulsing world. Environmental destruction and economic decline is forcing the wealthy to rely on violence, hate, and exploitation to secure their place in society.
In ten years from now when things have gotten a lot worse, make sure you pat yourself on the back and congratulate yourself. You were bold enough to give reactionaries like NeilT a platform, while silencing anger and frustration felt for people like him. The last thing we would want is humanity entering the violent Anthropocene with a potty mouth. Gross!

Policy and solutions / Re: Tesla glory/failure
« on: October 15, 2018, 02:42:08 AM »
I have a awful feeling that maintaining the status quo but with a green "twist" is going to be an utter failure. I can't help but to think that solving the problem with the techniques that got us into this mess is a really bad idea.
I generally agree with this comment. Green BAU cannot solve the world's problems quickly enough and/or thoroughly enough, and on its own will end in failure. Other solutions are required as well - sharply reduced consumption, sharply reduced pollution, and reduced population (sharply reducing births). What I fail to understand is why so many hate Tesla for trying to build some kind of partial solution, as if they are to blame that other more thorough, quicker and more correct solutions are not implemented. Blame politicians, and even more blame the general public whose priorities dictate all this, and/or who lets distractions and expensive ads to sway its votes.
The claim that because of Tesla all those simpletons lose sight of the real problem is pure nonsense.

We're at a point where we can't simply accept any "partial solution". We can't just take everything at face value.
The crisis is severe. Our time is limited. We need to approach everything with a critical eye. Simply rubber stamping every "green" solution is a bad idea. We have to be smarter than that. This cocktail of desperation and late-stage capitalism is going to give us a nasty hangover.

We are already seeing the effects of diverting public funds into the private sphere.

We are abandoning proven, reliable, inclusive, and green public transportation for the venture capitalists in Silicon Valley.

I'm not against electric vehicles. I'm not a Luddite. In fact, I plan on transferring schools just to focus on power and motors, because I know that electric motors is a critical piece in the climate change puzzle

But the only god damn thing that will stop climate change is to transform our society. To stop polluting. To stop exploiting. To stop stealing resources. To have respect for the people and the world around us. To be equal. And people like Musk are selling us a world where we continue the cycle of greed, destruction, and exploitation. The batteries may be one step forward, but the framework is fifty steps back.

The sooner you realize this, the sooner we can move forward.

Policy and solutions / Re: Tesla glory/failure
« on: October 14, 2018, 02:57:44 PM »
Tesla is too big to fail — but not for the reason you might think
   •   Tesla has been blistered by criticism for months, but the company and CEO Elon Musk are still standing.
   •   Tesla survived the summer and Musk settled with the SEC just in time to witness the UN issue its most dire warnings about global warming to date.
   •   If we have only until 2040 to drastically reduce the warming trend, we can't afford to lose Tesla and the potentially millions of electric-vehicles it could sell.

Tesla isn't big — but it's too big to fail.

The bottom line is that the species needs Tesla to sell 200,000 cars this year, 400,000 cars next year, and as soon as possible, millions of vehicles annually. And that alone won't be enough. All the other automakers need to join Tesla and replace the planet's one billion gas-burning cars with much cleaner alternatives.

This means that Tesla is too big to fail, even though it isn't very big. What's actually too big is Tesla's impact; without Musk's urging, the limited electric-car race we're now witnessing wouldn't have happened. If Tesla does collapse, going to zero as some of its more aggressive short-sellers hope it does, we could lose five or ten years in the framework of the twenty we have to work with.
We simply can't lose those years.

So just as General Motors and Chrysler were too big to fail in the financial crisis — their demises would have displaced hundreds of thousands of workers and blown a hole in US GDP — Tesla is too big to fail in the face of a climate crisis.

Take note of this rhetoric and the narrative it's building. Green tech giants are going to insulate themselves from failure by using public funds as bailouts. They will build empires of expensive, inefficient "green" solutions that will be desperately heralded as the only way to defeat climate change.  They will use their cult of personalities and strong lobbying efforts to pump their companies with public funds during start-up, and continue to do so as they falter and fail. They will use this money to purchase private jets and mansions, just like Musk has. 

Tesla has already received billions in government subsidies to build cars that reinforce a suburban lifestyle. That money should have been spent on things like medium density housing, public transport, and other inclusive sustainability projects.  But instead we keep on building expensive hunks of metal for rich people and claiming it as saving the world.

It greatly upsets me that this is the path we're taking. And it is unbelievable disappointing to see a forum of such smart people endorse it.  I know I come off as a raving lunatic on this forum, and have my account ignored by many people. And maybe I am crazy. And maybe this path will work out in the end. But I have a awful feeling that maintaining the status quo but with a green "twist" is going to be an utter failure. I can't help but to think that solving the problem with the techniques that got us into this mess is a really bad idea.

Policy and solutions / Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« on: October 14, 2018, 12:35:49 AM »
Every industry pollutes a ton but big oil/gas companies produce a ton of money directly tied to that pollution. And when they use that money to fund politicians who prevent proper accounting for pollution, and to fund fake research casting doubt on the damage of said pollution, it does become a battle of evil against humanity.

There is no such thing as "Big Oil". The amount of overlap energy companies have with the rest of our economic system essentially makes the C-level executives immune from climate change crisis. They don't care about "EV disruption" nearly as much as you think. Especially considering how tied energy is with finance, and just how profitable green energy is becoming.

When was the last time you've heard of an oil company threaten their banks to divest from their green investments? And how many directors, vice-presidents, board members have worked with both fossil fuel companies and the bank's energy capital markets (both renewable and fossil fuels)? Go find out for yourself and look at the leadership for any large banks.

It's hard to find evil when the big players - finance & wall street - are playing for both sides.

Oil men will always be profitable. If Fossil fuels prices tanks due to climate change, they'll do what they have always done: bankrupt, leave anybody under the executive level to eat dirt, and take their millions and billions elsewhere. They aren't scared of green disruption. Amazon plug-ins. Electric cars. Wind turbines. Solar panels. They're scared of wealth re-distribution and the guillotine. 

Here's a bonus graphic to illustrate how murky global capitalism has become. you can't fight big oil without fighting an entire system.

Policy and solutions / Re: Tesla glory/failure
« on: October 02, 2018, 01:31:54 AM »
Imagine yourself in forty years. We've passed the point of no return. We couldn't stop climate change. All is hopeless. Everyone is scared, angry, and confused. How could this happen? Everyone cries.

The Sigmetnows and Archimids of the world answer:

"Well, we tried our gosh darn hardest. You see, there's this guy from South Africa who got his fortune from apartheid gem mining. He bought nice cars like McLaren and rode on a private jet. One day he bought a electric car company and was going to build one for every person in the world. That's how he was going to save the world. He didn't like public transport so he was going to make a super special underground vacuum tube where you could drive your own car in. Very cool. very innovative. what a genius. too bad the oil companies and shorts got in his way. what a shame. everything would be fine now. OH! and he wanted us to go to mars! how cool! "

Policy and solutions / Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« on: August 17, 2018, 05:31:18 PM »

Don't give me this decorum bullshit. I've posted in this thread witness testimonials (included his own ex-wife), lawsuits, investigative pieces, and elon's own words.. And they all paint this picture:
He and his management are elitist, classist, sexist, racist, anti-union, anti-public transport, anti-safety, anti-worker, and now out-right fraudulent. Elon got his fortune from south african apartheid gem mining. He's an egotistical techno-fetishist hyper-capitalist. He is the enemy of our society.

Without fail, every time, I'm bombarded with posters calling any criticism as lies, or find a way to justify his bullshit.  Weird nobody was talking about decorum and snark when everyone was dog piling on anything that spoke poorly about the lord and savior.

I'm so sick of this forum's members hiding behind "decorum" when their bullshit gets exposed. "please play nice". Sorry, I don't want to play nice with people that are doing everything to justify their excessive lifestyles. If you think rich capitalists selling rich assholes fancy cars is the way to solve climate change, you can go fuck yourself. YOU are the problem

"the only way to solve climate change is if we can maintain the status quo while doing so. Then the only solution is technology"

No, that is bullshit, and this forum needs to be completely purged of the narrative. Because it is going to destroy that world.  The only way to stop climate change is to stop polluting. stop consuming. stop exploiting.

Policy and solutions / Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« on: August 17, 2018, 04:04:36 PM »
H2 profitability odds just went from 2% to ZERO.
So if Tesla's H2 IS profitable by some twist of fate, will you quit calling people who have opinions different from you fanboys? Or will you continue your endless attacks regardless of any facts just to "wake up the fanboys"?
This entire thread from beginning till end has been tesla drones deflecting any criticism of musk and tesla as fud, lies, oil & gas lobbyist.  The critics have been attacked relentlessly. And now that everything is unraveling, and everything we've said is true, we still have to give musk and tesla the benifit of the doubt?
Defending musk is no longer about facts and data. It's grown into an unhealthy obsession. Everyone with some common sense needs to give it up.

Policy and solutions / Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« on: August 13, 2018, 10:42:52 PM »
Yeah! I've posted about this a few times before, and I'm glad it's finally come up. I was wondering when we'll overtly accept fascist genocidal states behavior in the name of climate change. And I didn't expect it so soon!

Why bother discussing the merits of incrementalism when it has already failed?

How long ago has it been since climate change has been understood? And in the mainstream discourse? The 80s, 90s? How far has incrementalism gotten us in the last three decades? We’ve almost doubled the amount of emissions in the atmosphere. Littered our oceans. And destroyed much of our soil.

It’s simply too late for incrementalism. Because a significant part of the world will feel the devastation of climate change. Incrementalism is only a concept that serves wealthy nations.  An idea that justifies the costly lifestyle of westerners, while simultaneously ignoring the grim reality for the rest of the world.

Try doing this.

Go to Bangladesh and talk to the people that are about to get their communities swallowed by the sea and tell them this:
“Hey, sorry that your entire life is about to be washed away. Don’t worry, once Elon builds me an electric car everything will be fine.  Thanks for the shirt by-the-way, it fits perfect. Barely cost me anything”

Or go talk to an inuit person whose community is sinking into the permafrost:
“hey, sorry your way of life is being evaporated into the atmosphere. Don’t worry though, natural gas plants are replacing coal plants. Thanks for all the land by-the-way. Didn’t cost us anything”

This is incrementalism: I will not make any substantial sacrifices to combat climate change. The economic system that supports my lifestyle is sacred and must not be changed.  And the suffering of exploited persons is an acceptable sacrifice to the problem.


Incrementalism has more challenges than just technological fixes. It is the political and social implications of maintaining the status quo.

Incrementalism is liberalism. The idea that our society can make progressive change while maintaining existing class structure. Liberalism worked great in the post-war era when we had essentially unlimited resources and labour to exploit. Liberalism requires stability. Something that is no longer being afforded to us. Our economy and environment are quickly deteriorating. And liberalism does not have the proper tools to deal with our current challenges.

Do you think that the rise of right wing extremism is simply a passing phase? Do you believe trump became president by accident?

Will the climate change induced refugees make the world a better or worse place? Do you think the nationalist will have a change of heart when they have millions of coloured people knocking on their door?

Dealing with millions of refugees is not something that is done ‘incrementally’. You either open your arms or you don’t.

The world is convulsing. And liberalism and ‘incrementalism’ is not equipped to handle this type of crisis.  It is the extremes that will prevail. Reactionary vs. equality. Fascism vs. Socialism.   It is the arrogance of western exceptionalism that our societies are impervious to hate. The faster you realize that the redistribution of wealth is the only option solving the crisis, the less likely we are to degenerate into fascism.  And I can give you countless examples in history where the ‘incrementalists’ (Liberals) either cowardly kept their mouths shut or joined the fascists.

Today is the day you decide to be on the right side of history. Hindsight will buy you nothing.

Policy and solutions / Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« on: June 09, 2018, 09:50:43 PM »
Incrementalism in America........

Are we getting paid more? Some people are.

At least gadgets are getting cheaper! Hopefully they don't end up in the oceans

All in all, a steady rise in poverty. Can't wait for the next recession

I can't wait to retire. Hopefully this century

Thank god I'm not black

Bonus incrementalism

The politics / Re: Empire - America and the future
« on: June 06, 2018, 06:15:26 PM »
Watching Yemen unfold is fucking terrifying.  After Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, etc. We didn't learn a single thing. We got worse. Way worse. Nobody is interested in seriously confronting the horrors inflicted by western nations and its allies. Israel just casually murdered 60 protesters and nothing is going to change.

Climate change isn't going to make things better. Countries are going to deteriorate as they are stressed from climate change. Refugees, civil war, fundamentalism, terrorism. It is all going to happen. It's happening now. And it's going to get way worse. So much worse.

The politics / Re: Empire - America and the future
« on: May 20, 2018, 08:13:20 PM »
Susan, your platitudes about allying together to fight evils doesn't hold much weight for me, and many other (especially young) leftists.
Many people on this forum are old beneficiaries of the empire. And it is rare to find any meaningful critique of a system from people that have greatly reaped its rewards. And it is only now, that due to climate change & deteriorating economic conditions, that liberals find themselves advocating for change.

It's so convenient. That for years your generation has accumulated wealth stolen from minorities, foreigners, and future generations. That only now, as the problems of nationalism and environmental destruction creep into your daily lives, you decide to speak up. And what do you have to say? That we must change within the system.

The only change that can solve our problems is a radical transformation of our society, anything else will continue to perpetuate the suffering & environmental destruction caused by the inherently exploitative economic system that permeates throughout the globe.

So many of the problems discussed on these forums, from climate change to violent imperialism to the rise of fascism, have been warned about by leftists for decades. And rather than learning from those people, you retreat to the same 'ol strategy: how can we fix these problems while maintaining the system that benefits me? It reeks of selfishness, arrogance, and ignorance.  Your attitude towards the problem isn’t the attitude I want in an ally.

What sacrifice is your generation doing to solve our problems?

Are you finding homes for the homeless? Or do you keep collecting rent on your properties?

Are you protesting when a cop murders another minority? Or do you thank them for their service as they walk by?

Do you confront your friends at dinner parties? The businesspeople, bankers, lawyers, engineers speculators? Or would you rather avoid uncomfortable conversations?

Do you provide reparations to indigenous people? Or do you quietly enjoy the warmth and comfort of your home built on their stolen land?

How do you show solidarity to the working people of this world? Do you fight tooth and nail for equal pay? Or do suggest we soften their suffering with minimum wage, basic income and Medicare?

How do you suggest we put a stop to decades of violent imperialism inflicted to so much of the world? Are you willing to pay reparations? How much sacrifice are you willing to make to the families of murdered Palestinians? Do you think voting democrat will do much healing for the dismembered limbs shot by American allies using American Weapons?

What sort of sacrifice are you actually willing to make in your life to end the suffering and exploitation caused by your country? Because if it’s something a long the lines of: "I’m willing to pay our friendly capitalist Elon Musk for one of his fancy toys, and I’ll vote for one of the good democrats". Then you aren’t making a sacrifice. You're just saving yourself embarrassment at dinner parties.

The politics / Re: Russiagate
« on: April 18, 2018, 05:08:01 PM »
One narrative against another narrative. Who to believe and where the facts come from? And don’t tell me that the Russian media were offering deep analysis of the invasion in Ukraine instead he of a similar enabling narrative. A strongman instilling fear into a rebellion .... never happened before huh?   
No, they weren't. Because Russia media is garbage.
Ukraine is used as a buffer against Russian Dominance. The western media never discusses how NATO is currently, and has for decades, supported the ultra-nationalistic anti-Russian Ukrainians to prevent the expansion of Russian influence.  The media will never report on how we're literally arming nazis.  We only report on the aggressive actions of Russia. Which is good, because I don't agree with ANY imperialistic action.  But we don't tell the whole story. That's the problem. The west will always find a way to either justify or downplay our own violent imperialistic action, and exaggerate other nations violent adventures.  Our narrative will always support the empire. No matter how many wars we start, no matter how many lives we take, no matter how much suffering we inflict. Our narrative will always be the correct one. 

The politics / Re: US intervention in foreign lands
« on: March 04, 2018, 04:54:05 AM »
I read up a bit on Honduras, and was looking for evidence that the US intervened.

I could not find any, and it looks like that is because the US did NOT intervene.

Opposition parties blame the US (and Clinton specifically) for NOT denouncing the 2009 coup (or not denouncing it strong enough).
And they blame the US (and Clinton specifically) for NOT cutting off all aid to Honduras (including humanitarian aid).
And they blame the US for NOT denouncing the elections that followed.
And they blame the US (and Clinton specifically) for NOT denouncing the murder of Berta Caceres strong enough.

So if the US intervenes in another country it is blamed.
And if it doesn't intervene, it is also blamed.

The US can't do anything right, can it ?

<snip, N.> How can you say shit like this on THE DAY Berta Cáceres was murdered by AMERICAN TRAINED ASSASSINS. Denounce? DENOUNCE ENOUGH? What the fuck are you talking about? A world renowned environmentalist was killed by a hit squad.  What is wrong with you? Who are you defending at this point?

Do not read just "a bit". READ A LOT. you are obviously struggling to understand the deep and complex implications of American imperialism

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