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Messages - Shared Humanity

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1
Arctic sea ice / Re: "Stupid" Questions :o
« on: December 06, 2019, 06:33:33 PM »
I'm not sure if it would make any difference. And GDP is a truly narrow measure, far from being the best. But it's the only one. Health, happiness and environmental protection follow GDP - the higher the better. Total consumption also follows GDP which is a definite downside.

Our only objective should always be the maximum happiness for the most people. Biodiversity and sea level must take second place to maintaining and protecting food production.

In an ideal world we would have started a massive drive to avoid AGW some decades ago by using government funding to jumpstart a shift in energy production away from fossil fuels. But any such plans were doomed from the start, I think, and are not very likely to be adopted in future. We might stumble into a sharp reduction in CO2 emissions simply through the increasingly favourable economics of renewables, but there will be an absolute minimum of conscious common effort to do so. Unfortunately. But not an existential threat to civilisation.

I don't know where to start...simply remarkable.

BAU will deliver a 4C warmer world by the end of the century at a minimum. This global temperature is absolutely incompatible with human civilization. Will we drive ourselves to extinction? No. Will those of us who are alive wish they were dead? Perhaps.

2
Arctic sea ice / Re: When will the Arctic Go Ice Free?
« on: December 06, 2019, 05:02:02 PM »
There have been changes, yes, the Beaufort gyre stopped, the MYI is vanishing rapidly etc. etc.

The Beaufort gyre hasn't stopped. Ice, FYI and MYI, is still being transported from the central CAB and north of the CAA into the Beaufort and continues along this path into the Chukchi and ultimately the ESS. In the past, this movement of some of the thickest MYI served to preserve it, resulting in the very thick slabs of ice found throughout the Arctic Ocean.

...by far the best explanation of the behaviour of arctic ice, when it melts and how fast it melts, is found by looking at the changes in temperature and not hypothesising about MYI or the Beafort gyre.

Yes, rising temperatures are the best explanation for the behavior of the arctic ice, when it melts and how fast it melts, but the local temperatures in the arctic are what is driving melt and needs to be understood. The science calls this amplification and falling albedo is a significant factor in this amplification.

Arguing that a global surface temperature measure is the best explanation for the seasonal behavior of the arctic ice is a lot like following the S&P 500 as the best way of evaluating the fortunes of a single company. I would not make any forecast on that company's future nor would I buy its stock based on the movement of the S&P 500.

If we try to understand arctic amplification, what is driving temperature anomalies in the arctic and the resultant sea ice loss, we necessarily need to look at what is happening in the Arctic, how are things changing?

Others here have said it far better than me but the increasingly lengthy ice free conditions of the Beaufort, Chukchi and ESS have turned the still very healthy Beaufort gyre into an ice killing machine.

https://sites.google.com/site/arctischepinguin/home/amsr2/grf/amsr2-area-regional.png?attredirects=0

MYI is now melting out instead of being preserved. This explains the dramatic drop in the thickest MYI. The changing role of the Beaufort gyre and its impact on MYI is certainly something to watch and has far more impact on the ice from season to season than a small uptick in the global temperature.

3
Arctic sea ice / Re: "Stupid" Questions :o
« on: December 05, 2019, 01:43:52 AM »
So all in all I'm not at all convinced that we are looking at any existential threat to civilisation. I'm actually pretty optimistic that wars and famines can be avoided even in a worst-case AGW situation, and I'm absolutely convinced that humanity will not be able to do anything purposeful to avoid what is going to happen.

So, in summary, we can do nothing about AGW and everything will be just fine.

I'm not going to block you but I am certainly going to skip over anything you write from now on.

4
Arctic sea ice / Re: "Stupid" Questions :o
« on: November 27, 2019, 09:25:51 PM »

No, growth does not have to end.  Materials can be reused/recycled.  New sources are available, and organic sources are inexhaustible.

You might want to reconsider this statement as...

"Half of the topsoil on the planet has been lost in the last 150 years."

https://www.worldwildlife.org/threats/soil-erosion-and-degradation

5
Consequences / Re: Population: Public Enemy No. 1
« on: November 20, 2019, 12:14:33 AM »
The biggest problem with population is that there is absolutely nothing we can do about it, short of genocide.  I mean, what exactly would you suggest, forced contraception?

Saying that population is a problem is like sitting on a beach and saying that an approaching tsunami is a problem.  Yes. It is.  But there is nothing you can do to stop it.  The only thing we can do is try to figure out how to deal with the consequences.

This is a very difficult problem and genocide and forced sterilizations are not the solution. The thing is, if we can't figure out a solution, mother nature will impose it's own and it is going to be nasty.

6
Arctic sea ice / Re: When will the Arctic Go Ice Free?
« on: November 19, 2019, 08:27:35 PM »
The Beaufort, ESS, Laptev and Kara Seas are all south of 80 degrees. The increased insolation has to be a contributing factor to their melting out just as ice north of 80 degrees is less prone to melting.

7
Arctic sea ice / Re: When will the Arctic Go Ice Free?
« on: November 19, 2019, 07:54:08 PM »
Let's play a game, a thought experiment. Let's imagine that the entire NH consisted of one vast ocean, no continents or islands to impede the flow of water or the movement of ice. Who here feels that we would already be seeing BOE every year?

(raises hand)

This is, however, not the NH we have. Why do the Beaufort, ESS, and Laptev so readily melt when the basin is proving more resilient?

(Hint: There are reasons. Feel free to pick and choose yours.)



I would argue that bathymetry, proximity to the pole and topographical features which impede the flow of water and the movement of sea ice are a few of those reasons. By the way, these reasons are not going away.

Because I believe these things, there are some new developments over the past few years that concern me. The garlic press is one. The lift off of all MYI from the coast of the CAA and Greenland is another. This ice use to hug the coast but the thickest MYI can now be found drifting north.

8
Arctic sea ice / Re: When will the Arctic Go Ice Free?
« on: November 19, 2019, 07:47:20 PM »
To my eyes, the correlation seems to be very speciuos judging from the images above, and the apparent correlation on on the Atlantic side could have more to do with the island groups there than the bathymetry around them. Ice happens on  the surface, and islands breach the surface.

But the islands in fact exist right where they exist, correct? As does the CAA and Greenland exist right, in fact, where they exist. These islands don't, in fact, exist in the middle of the Beaufort and I dare say they likely will never exist there as they seem perfectly happy to exist where they do.

Having said that, the existence of these islands has an obvious effect. They serve to constrict the flow of ice from the Arctic to the Barents where it all would most certainly melt in the summer. These islands then are one reason among many that contributes to the persistence of ice near the pole. They make it more difficult to melt than if it could flow freely into the Barents.

(The CAA and Greenland effect the ice in a similar way but to a larger degree.)


9
Arctic sea ice / Re: When will the Arctic Go Ice Free?
« on: November 19, 2019, 07:39:22 PM »
A reminder of minimums and bathy since 2012. I would say there is some correlation on the atlantic side.
Indeed. And no correlation on the ESS/Beaufort fronts.
I'm afraid that this supposed "correlation" is only due to the fact that both the ice and the deep ocean tends to be towards the middle at the end of the melting season. A bit like the correlation between global temperatures and Caribbean piracy (one of the fundamental tenets of pastafarianism).

To my eyes, the correlation seems to be very speciuos judging from the images above, and the apparent correlation on on the Atlantic side could have more to do with the island groups there than the bathymetry around them. Ice happens on  the surface, and islands breach the surface.

I get that you feel strongly that there is nothing unique about the ice in the basin that tends to remain at the minimum nor is there any reason to suggest that the ice that tends to exist at the minimum is any more difficult to melt than ice in the peripheral seas.

If you look at the animation, it is clear that ice generally survives the melt season, even the most severe melt seasons, along the coast of the CAA and northern Greenland from McClure Strait to the Fram. This ice at minimum extends to and generally beyond the north pole. This persistent behavior suggests that there are very real reasons that this ice is more difficult to melt. Persons here have suggested bathymetry, the shorter season for sunlight, proximity of Greenland and CAA which serves to anchor or at least minimize movement of the ice pack. You resolutely refute every suggestion provided and then insist that those here provide reasons for suggesting the ice is more resilient. Whatever the reason or reasons, the simple fact is this ice has proven to be more resilient than the rest and there are reasons for this.

10
Permafrost / Re: Northern Hemisphere snow cover
« on: November 14, 2019, 04:02:02 AM »
Live in Chicago...it was damn cold Tuesday morning. Broke out my winter down parka earlier than any recent year.

11
Arctic sea ice / Re: 2019 sea ice area and extent data
« on: November 11, 2019, 07:00:38 PM »
The Arctic is certainly a mix of different seas.

Some here believe there is no real difference.

12
Arctic sea ice / Re: Latest PIOMAS update (November 2019)
« on: November 10, 2019, 05:36:46 PM »
bbr - I, and I suspect others, would appreciate it if you would explain in more detail how the land ocean balance creates consequences for civilization.  I thought I knew about the various feedback loops, but this one is new to me.  Thanks for considering this request.

We are going to go way off topic if we discuss this here.

NH snow cover and its attendant impacts are discussed here.

https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,2876.50.html#lastPost

13
Arctic sea ice / Re: When will the Arctic Go Ice Free?
« on: November 09, 2019, 04:59:24 PM »
My 2 cents worth which, due to market demand, is only worth a penny.

Thinner ice is more fragmented, mobile, dispersed and saline IMHO. All of these would cause this ice to go poof faster than thicker ice.

14
I'm so lost, Sark.  Sorry for my ignorance, but what is the GIF showing?

Looks cool though.

15
Policy and solutions / Re: Renewable Energy
« on: October 28, 2019, 03:58:37 PM »
What happened ?

A nihilistic government missed to regulate it!

Biomass works great in Germany, where it's regulated.

Given our desperate need to capture and sequester CO2 from the atmosphere in order to reduce the current levels of atmospheric CO2, biomass is not the direction to go.

16
Consequences / Re: Places becoming less livable
« on: October 24, 2019, 01:59:24 AM »
Wow. This thread is really depressing. Maybe it should be retitled to people doubling down on climate change. Many of these locations should be evacuated, rather than cool the outdoors and truck in water for toilets.

They do a pretty good job of depressing you over on this thread too.

https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,2728.150.html
I often find AbruptSLR's postings on the multiple meter sea rise thread to be downers, too.

Neven should provide discounts for Prozac for visitors to this blog.

17
Consequences / Re: Places becoming less livable
« on: October 22, 2019, 10:56:35 PM »
Wow. This thread is really depressing. Maybe it should be retitled to people doubling down on climate change. Many of these locations should be evacuated, rather than cool the outdoors and truck in water for toilets.

They do a pretty good job of depressing you over on this thread too.

https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,2728.150.html

18
Arctic sea ice / Re: The 2019/2020 freezing season
« on: October 22, 2019, 06:01:13 PM »
The historically late advancement of the Arctic Sea Ice extent is quite noteworthy, to say the least. It is also fascinating that so little attention has been paid to this ongoing event on this forum. Nevertheless, it would appear that accumulated heat in the Arctic Ocean/system is an important factor.

We're all paying attention to it from what I can see. 

19
Policy and solutions / Re: Extinction Rebellion
« on: October 18, 2019, 07:18:16 PM »
I agree that the XR movement is getting out of control...

I could not disagree more strongly. Young people don't want to live in a world where hundreds of millions die (perhaps billions) due to climate change. Given the stark fate they are facing, I'm thinking they need to up the pressure.

20
Just wait til it keeps snowing into July, then August, and we get a year without a summer at all in these regions. At that point the only thing left to do will be to LOL.

I like this thread and am absolutely certain that the trend towards increased NH snow cover in the fall is directly due to changes driven by AGW. More stretches of open water, increase in atmospheric water content and a loopy jet stream that allows for Arctic air intrusions into the lower latitudes are all contributing factors. Never the less, despite these large positive snow anomalies in the fall and early winter, we are still seeing large negative snow anomalies in the spring and summer due to the much warmer temperatures rapidly melting all of this snow earlier and earlier in the spring.

When you insert comments like the one above, you actually undermine the very real expertise that you have when evaluating this new phenomena which makes this thread less valuable as a result. Your contributions here are valuable and I have made it a regular habit to visit. Perhaps we should wait for evidence that snow is persisting into the late spring and summer before we declare the beginning of the new ice age.


21
Arctic sea ice / Re: The 2019/2020 freezing season
« on: October 10, 2019, 07:30:26 PM »
Could be that Lorenzo's waves took a toll on the Atlantic Ocean side, especially around Svalbard?
Strange to see such a drop on October.
I think the continual export into FJL and Svalbard area over the summer was more unusual. Ice along the atlantic edge has been weakened or melted by sitting over a warm current all that time. Now the drift has temporarily? changed direction it offers little resistance. Yes, it's strange that this has come so late.
unihamburg amsr2-uhh, atlantic side, oct3-9
edit: looking at the forecast, export should resume shortly.

That's not just drift. There is extensive melt happening, most noticeably on the tongue of ice that had extended towards the Barents between FJI and Svalbard. Also along the ice extending south along the coast of Greenland.

22
Antarctica / Re: PIG has calved
« on: October 05, 2019, 06:44:27 PM »
Would be cool to see it exit into the southern ocean essentially intact.

23
sark...would like to thank you for bringing this thread to life with links to research. No doubt, global warming will have huge impacts on atmospheric circulation. Would love to have the more informed here explain to idiots like me what these changes mean. Something more than we're screwed please.

24
Arctic sea ice / Re: When will the Arctic Go Ice Free?
« on: October 04, 2019, 03:47:09 PM »
One could look at that image and say "Wow, data for last 10-15 years BELOW the prediction every single year."  One year also blasts way below the uncertainty estimates for the model.

Never mind that RCP 4.5 is now fantasyland.

25
Arctic sea ice / Re: The 2019/2020 freezing season
« on: October 04, 2019, 03:38:20 PM »
I'll have to take over A-Team's position on this venerable board and start posting updates for you all to follow

You'll have to do a lot more than that to "take over A-Team's position on this venerable board"!

There are few here who could match the content, both breadth and depth, of A-Team. Hopefully this is snark.

26
Consequences / Re: Places becoming less livable
« on: October 02, 2019, 09:54:39 PM »
Thank heaven that salt water isn't corrosive. And that raw sewage won't be flowing through restaurants or soaking into everyone's carpets. ::)


Time to move to higher ground. Permanently.

Terry


The infrastructure along our coasts that is most at risk from sea level rise are waste water systems. As these systems fail more and more frequently in urban areas, we will begin to see outbreaks of some diseases in urban areas that have not been seen since modern waste water sanitation systems were implemented.

How raw sewage can kill you...

https://www.cleansafeservices.co.uk/10-ways-raw-sewage-can-kill-you/

It will only take a few of these outbreaks to essentially destroy the real estate market in cities like Miami.

27
Permafrost / Re: Northern Hemisphere Winter 2019-2020 Snowcover / Misc Obs
« on: September 29, 2019, 07:29:57 PM »
Has anyone seen bbr2314. I'm a little worried about him.

28
It's my fault.  I should have made this thread more useful.  Perhaps a new thread in Consequences?  I dunno


No. This is the perfect place. Keep up the good work. Be sure to comment on current atmospherics on the upcoming freeze season thread but link to here for the more in depth discussion.

Great work!

29
cross posting for future reference.


Thank you very much for this.

30
Arctic sea ice / Re: The 2019 melting season
« on: September 21, 2019, 02:59:49 PM »
Focusing on the near term local while excluding the impacts of larger causes and the larger causes themselves is a grievous mistake.

No it's not Sam. It's the whole point of this thread.

By all means provide a brief explanation in here whilst linking to other threads on the ASIF, academic papers or other web sites that cover the larger causes. If a suitable ASIF thread doesn't already exist feel free to start one.

As has already been pointed out to you, any "larger" points made in here will swiftly become lost below the noise threshold in the weeks, months and years to come.


I hope sark and sam take your advice. Post real time atmospheric behaviors here that are having an effect on the melt season and create a thread that dives into the subject in a more in depth manner with scientific articles as support. Would be a great addition to the site.


31
Wow, those are incredible pictures, especially the ones showing the calved icebergs.

Massive tabular icebergs. You cannot get a sense of scale from the satellite pictures. The photos are awesome!

32
Permafrost / Re: Northern Hemisphere Winter 2019-2020 Snowcover / Misc Obs
« on: September 18, 2019, 09:02:13 PM »
...I think there would be a good thermodynamic argument that deep and early snow cover is really bad for permafrost...

There are numerous studies that have confirmed this. The increase in early snowfall across the NH is a disaster for permafrost.

33
Arctic sea ice / Re: When will the Arctic Go Ice Free?
« on: September 15, 2019, 02:28:52 PM »
Yes, but when will the Arctic go ice free?

34
Arctic sea ice / Re: The 2019 melting season
« on: September 15, 2019, 02:05:23 PM »
Neven, may I suggest making 2 threads about the upcoming freezing season, and the following melting season?

The freezing/melting season for dummies
and
The freezing season/melting season for scientists/by numbers

That way non scientific people that are concerned about the environment, and just want a place to chat about it, will have a home.

The scientific people can have their own place as well then, where they can complain and chase away the "dummies".

There are over 2000 topics on this site and anyone can create one.

35
Arctic sea ice / Re: The 2019 melting season
« on: September 15, 2019, 02:38:57 AM »
Be careful with answering Jim Hunt, you seem a candid poster and he's the worst troll if he wants to.
He sure is. He's never ever once replied to one of my messages, other than to complain. If you write over 4000 messages, and people like less than 200 of them, maybe it's a sign...

Jim Hunt is one of the top contributors here. I learn a great deal from his posts, far more than I learn from your daily postings of weather gifs. And this site is about sharing real insight into AGW, not getting likes.

36
Arctic sea ice / Re: When will the Arctic Go Ice Free?
« on: September 13, 2019, 10:19:12 PM »
It perhaps suggests we should be more concerned about other effects of global warming rather than arctic sea ice.

We absolutely should.

37
Arctic sea ice / Re: When will the Arctic Go Ice Free?
« on: September 13, 2019, 10:00:30 PM »
So a Gompertz fit for now, then “no melting since 2012”  or we can call it a hiatus or very slight melt for the next 50 years. Global warming can be safely ignored as it won’t affect the linear fit. We can bet the well being of the world that no non linearities will ocurr.


I don’t buy it.

No one here has said that but, of course, you already know this.

38
Arctic sea ice / Re: The 2019 melting season
« on: September 13, 2019, 09:56:51 PM »
Cold Eastern-Beaufort? Is that an artefact? Seems odd given the conditions there this melt season

Ice has been  imported from the cab and melting in this area of the Beaufort all season.

Didn't the same thing happen in 2012 and 2016?

The current cold anomaly is exactly where there is a finger of ice that is melting.

39
Arctic sea ice / Re: When will the Arctic Go Ice Free?
« on: September 12, 2019, 10:06:24 PM »
crandles. Thank you for this data dive. Very surprised by the chart.

40
Arctic sea ice / Re: 2019 sea ice area and extent data
« on: September 12, 2019, 05:54:04 PM »
NSIDC Total Area as at 11 September 2019 (5 day trailing average)  2,952,478   km2

Addendum


Once gain, it is the Beaufort, Chukchi, and ESS that refuse to let the melting season die.

And that bumpy ride in the Beaufort suggests that ice being exported from the CAB is still melting out. Much of this ice is MYI.

41
Arctic sea ice / Re: When will the Arctic Go Ice Free?
« on: September 11, 2019, 03:27:36 PM »
However, when we talk about an ice-free Arctic, we are specifically talking about the ice at minimum.  Therefore, ice at minima is more relevant to this thread.

Yes. It would seem obvious.

42
Consequences / Re: Prepping for Collapse
« on: September 10, 2019, 08:24:34 PM »
Prepping for collapse is one approach. Working together to engineer a collapse that occurs more rapidly than the one we work to forestall is a better approach.
Could you expand on this? It sounds counter intuitive.
Thanks
Terry

BAU is driving us to collapse. Over the past 40 years, nothing has been done to derail us from behavior that is causing rapid increases in atmospheric CO2. This approaching collapse will be total; environmental, institutional, societal; an end to human civilization as we know it.

We need to engineer a collapse in the growth system that is driving us to the brink. This is simultaneously our only hope and terrifying. 2008 demonstrated just how fragile the worldwide financial system is. The engine that drives the system is consumers. Industry supplies what we demand. A fairly significant percentage of consumers need to decide to no longer participate in this dance with death, alter their consumption patterns to such an extent as to bring down the entire financial edifice, disaster capitalism if you will with the sole purpose of reinventing how we live.

I sometimes feel as if I am living in the Matrix movie.

43
Consequences / Re: Prepping for Collapse
« on: September 10, 2019, 07:59:13 PM »
Prepping for collapse is one approach. Working together to engineer a collapse that occurs more rapidly than the one we work to forestall is a better approach.

44
Arctic sea ice / Re: When will the Arctic Go Ice Free?
« on: September 10, 2019, 07:09:07 PM »
And just to remind you - my involvement in this discussion started when somebody tried to explain the percieved stall since 2010 (or whenever) based on a totally erroneous posting, and since I pointed out that a) there was no stall, and b) the explanation was erroneous anyway, a lot of people have used a lot of effort to convince me of the mechanisms behind this stall that they claim is there for all to see.

But - my graphs show a steady decline since 2010 or whatever. No stall. As I stated very clearly:

I suspect that the "someone" was me so I would like to clarify what I said. At no point did I suggest a stall in melt. The melt continues apace with the condition of the ice looking progressively worse every year. Peripheral seas no longer freeze over as they have in the past (Barents, Bering) while interior seas melt out earlier and freeze later. The pack overall is more fragmented and mobile with far less MYI and no prospect for the oldest MYI to return. The ice at minimum is generally more disperse due to the higher mobility.

What I have stated and will continue to maintain is that the decline in SIE at minimum has slowed over the past decade. I have previously provided some suggested reasons for this behavior. Since someone (I don't know who) has defined an ice free Arctic or BOE as less than 1 million km2 of extent at minimum, this slow down in the rate of decline at minimum is relevant to the question posed by this thread. When will the Arctic go ice free?

For the record, IMHO...

  • We will not go ice free in the coming decade.
  • Our 1st BOE will occur some time between 2030 and 2040.
  • After the 1st BOE we will see a rebound in SIE at minimum for the same reasons that SIE at minimum has slowed recently. We will not immediately see BOE's occur every fall after the 1st occurs.

45
Arctic sea ice / Re: When will the Arctic Go Ice Free?
« on: September 05, 2019, 08:23:45 PM »
My request stands that you exercise more care when using my name

46
Arctic sea ice / Re: When will the Arctic Go Ice Free?
« on: September 05, 2019, 05:00:10 PM »
One last attempt at answering the question posed by this thread...

We had perfect conditions for extraordinary melt seasons in 2007, 2010 and 2012. This resulted in new records set for minimum volume in each of these years. (See 1st chart.)

These record melt seasons also decimated MYI with 5 year old ice totals collapsing to a fraction of what they had historically been. (See 2nd chart.)

With far more 1st year ice now in the Arctic, we see a dramatic jump in variability in SIE minimums as FYI is far more sensitive to the particular characteristics of individual melt seasons. (See 3rd chart.)

Since 2012, the sea ice that survives the melt season can be found hiding out north of 80 degrees and along the CAA. This is no different than prior to these extraordinary melt seasons and this behavior has always been the predominant reason for the Arctic creating thick MYI. The difference is that the MYI created now is mainly 2nd year ice. (See 1st chart.)

The last refuge of Arctic ice north of 80 degrees and nested along the CAA will prove to be more difficult to melt IMHO and the flattening of the graph over the last decade of SIE at minimum (See chart 5.) and volume minimums (See chart 1.) captures this. So, what will it take to have our 1st BOE? I am not entirely certain but I will put out some suggestions and I believe all of these will need to happen.

1. Historically high export of ice through the Fram during the winter.
2. A very active garlic press, resulting in much of the remaining MYI exiting the CAB.
3. Continued increases in dispersion with much of the ice that survives a melt season finding its way into peripheral seas and setting the stage for melting the following year. Conversely, compaction into the refuge at the end of a melt season will always result in the creation of more resilient MYI.
4. Export into the Barents throughout the winter, ensuring its demise in the next melt season.
5. A record warm freeze season, retarding the formation of ice. Similar to or worse than 2016. (See 4th chart.)
5. A perfect melt season.

There are likely more.

47
Arctic sea ice / Re: When will the Arctic Go Ice Free?
« on: September 05, 2019, 03:58:23 PM »
Unless there is a well supported physical reason why ice has stopped melting.


The ice at minimum now is mostly north of 80 degrees and still nested along the CAA. This ice will be more difficult to melt out and thus will continue to result in 2nd year ice forming.

48
Arctic sea ice / Re: When will the Arctic Go Ice Free?
« on: September 04, 2019, 06:59:39 PM »
binntho...

I have yet to call anything you say as rubbish or cast aspersions on your efforts to argue a viewpoint different than my own. I still feel the way I do about whether a BOE is likely in the next decade and my future posts will likely try to make this case, essentially trying to answer the question that is the title of this thread.

You can respond as you see fit but I guess I would prefer your responses make a compelling argument that helps me understand my mistakes as opposed to simply calling what I post rubbish.

But then, that is just me.

49
Has there been any deterioration of the portion that has separated from the glacier?

Yes but relatively little, but some parts in the north, east and south.

That's good. Once this ice shelf disappears and this area becomes seasonal ice, would this have an effect on the behavior of the glacier and the ice that calves from it?

50
Arctic sea ice / Re: When will the Arctic Go Ice Free?
« on: September 04, 2019, 05:45:58 PM »
As long as we are posting misleading stuff...

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