Messages

1

Arctic sea ice / Re: The 2019 melting season

« on: Today at 01:06:24 AM »

north whirlpole then

2

Arctic sea ice / Re: The 2019 melting season

« on: Today at 12:37:21 AM »

'Thickest' ice lifted off ellesmere again today.
Worldview, aqua modis, lincoln sea, may25-26, click to run.

3

Arctic sea ice / Re: The 2019 melting season

« on: Today at 12:00:20 AM »

- that looks like an area of meltponding very near the pole.

I'll stick with maybe. Cloud covered the same area today so it's difficult to say, roughly 84.3n 150e

4

Arctic sea ice / Re: The 2019 melting season

« on: May 26, 2019, 10:25:34 PM »

The darker red patch near top centre may be what AMSR2 is picking up?

maybe

5

Arctic sea ice / Re: The 2019 melting season

« on: May 26, 2019, 12:07:54 PM »

< it seems like the Beaufort expanded and solidified, almost as if a refreeze was going on. I would say it's probably a removal of the effect of clouds on the sensor, or a freezing of surface meltwater on the ice, but would like to hear more expert opinions.>

I'm no expert but with air temperatures mostly above zero and a quick look at worldview I wouldn't suggest freezing
worldview, aqua modis, beaufort to fram, may25

6

Arctic sea ice / Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves

« on: May 26, 2019, 12:26:28 AM »

for reference, a rough overlay of global hycom cice ice thickness (GLBb 0.08-93.0) over ascat at 42% transparency.

7

Developers Corner / Re: Test space

« on: May 24, 2019, 11:31:08 PM »

Good ideas for cleaning up the images but ascat often 'sees' ice that unihamburg amsr2uhh doesn't. Example is the never melting ice in the beaufort/chukchi last september, 20180902,day245 shown here.(apologies for the rough cropping/scaling)
Also amsr2 has it's own 'flashing' 'scorching' and other 'weather' issues.

8

Arctic sea ice / Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves

« on: May 23, 2019, 11:47:58 PM »

whoi itp103 internal buoy temperature reached 10C today, which probably says more about sunshine than air temperature. I won't post these temps on the melting thread again as they could be misleading. Thanks Bruce.
https://www.whoi.edu/page.do?pid=163356

9

Arctic sea ice / Re: The 2019 melting season

« on: May 23, 2019, 10:55:09 PM »

Please take the polar bear discussion to the appropriate thread, maybe this one https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,2348.0.html

Despite the drift, the atlantic side north of FJL/Svalbard is also not looking good.
edit: worldview aquaterra modis, may21-23 https://go.nasa.gov/2M7P0lt

10

Arctic sea ice / Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves

« on: May 23, 2019, 10:10:37 PM »

<snippage(large)> If there is an operative Alaskan coastal current, it cannot be on the surface as countercurrent surface ice eddies are not seen (unlike in East Greenland).<snippage(large)>
Net annual export is roughly 44,000 cubic km per year from the Arctic to Baffin Bay, a small portion of sverdrups coming in with the West Spitsbergen Current or leaving via the East Greenland Current.<snippage(large)>

Agreed. Even the rammb sliders I've looked at don't show any ice eddies(so far). Obviously they are present at the chukchi/beaufort boundary and mercator model would appear to show an occasional current sinking to 34m or lower. Depending on interpretation that could be seen as upwelling though.
There is this from https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10584-012-0576-4

Fresh waters originating in the Pacific, in the Atlantic and in Arctic rivers can be distinguished via chemical signatures. For example, Pacific water has a distinctive neodymium signature imparted by the weathering of volcanic rocks that comprise the Pacific Rim (Goldstein and Hemming 2004); such rock is enriched in 143Nd via the radioactive decay of 147Sm, which is itself enriched in the mantle where the magma originates. The high 143Nd/144Nd ratio in Pacific water differs from those of Atlantic and river waters, which contact old continental crust.

Samples for analysis were collected during the IPY-GEOTRACES program in the southern Beaufort Sea. The high measured ratio of neodymium isotopes reveals a presence of Pacific freshwater even at great depth in the Canada Basin (Porcelli et al. 2009). Low salinity water from the Pacific can only reach such depth if its salinity is greatly enhanced via extreme ice growth, likely in flaw leads near the coast. The IPY study of neodymium therefore provides a new means to trace rare ventilation of the Arctic basins by Pacific water.

with an interesting take on temp/salinity I hadn't seen before shown below.
Limited readership here unless you post long animations

11

Arctic sea ice / Re: The 2019 melting season

« on: May 22, 2019, 12:28:54 AM »

agreed oren. In a few days time it could be much worse than 2016.

12

Arctic sea ice / Re: The 2019 melting season

« on: May 22, 2019, 12:03:33 AM »

The short term forecast for the Mackenzie watershed is crazy.<snippage>

It's bad today, but still a few days behind 2016. Not so many large floes in the Beaufort though.
Worldview terra modis, mackenzie may15-21.
2016 here: https://go.nasa.gov/2Er9zDk

13

Arctic sea ice / Re: The 2019 melting season

« on: May 21, 2019, 10:48:24 PM »

Following on from yesterdays relatively cloud free image of the arctic ocean (or estuary) here is a comparison of yesterday's ascat with the same image.(may20)
As the temperatures warm up and ice surface melts and refreezes ascat will struggle to differentiate ice provenance as can already be seen in the chukchi and north of NSI in this image. Weather interference also becomes more dominant.

14

Arctic sea ice / Re: The 2019 melting season

« on: May 20, 2019, 11:00:18 PM »

edit: arctic ocean today. Slight contrast adjustment to highlight fractures. https://go.nasa.gov/2JVe10v

15

Arctic sea ice / Re: "Stupid" Questions :o

« on: May 20, 2019, 10:56:39 PM »

Something wrong with https://www.polarview.aq ??
No more new radar shots since 18th early morning for both, Antarctic and Arctic.

It happens for a couple of days every two months or so. I don't know why.

16

Arctic sea ice / Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves

« on: May 20, 2019, 10:39:06 PM »

whoi itp110 salinity looks unusual from day105-120, (apr14-19, profile 413-443) https://www.whoi.edu/page.do?pid=163197
day109 data 12m-90m below

%ITP 110, profile 422: year day longitude(E+) latitude(N+) ndepths
2019  109.25141  -134.3791  74.1888  375 0
%year day pressure(dbar) temperature(C) salinity oxygen(umol/kg)
2019  109.25177   12   -1.5098   28.5838  184.7593
2019  109.25183   14   -1.5091   28.4931  195.4595
2019  109.25191   16   -1.5086   28.4130  205.3583
2019  109.25201   18   -1.5081   28.3412  212.2450
2019  109.25210   20   -1.5078   28.2903  216.1363
2019  109.25219   22   -1.5075   28.2615  217.7087
2019  109.25227   24   -1.5072   28.2385  217.6469
2019  109.25235   26   -1.5069   28.2252  216.4158
2019  109.25244   28   -1.5063   28.2195  214.5133
2019  109.25252   30   -1.5056   28.2078  211.7976
2019  109.25260   32   -1.5052   28.2038  209.3528
2019  109.25269   34   -1.5047   28.1997  206.8115
2019  109.25277   36   -1.5043   28.1916  204.1676
2019  109.25285   38   -1.5041   28.1701  202.3795
2019  109.25294   40   -1.5053   28.1295  202.2120
2019  109.25302   42   -1.5074   28.1066  203.7017
2019  109.25311   44   -1.5056   28.0840  205.3730
2019  109.25319   46   -1.5011   28.0746  207.2045
2019  109.25328   48   -1.4626   28.0411  207.3436
2019  109.25338   50   -1.1448   27.7462  203.9530
2019  109.25346   52   -0.8278   27.4566  200.9226
2019  109.25355   54   -0.6948   27.3505  199.7994
2019  109.25363   56   -0.6210   27.3089  198.5083
2019  109.25372   58   -0.4989   27.2259  195.8627
2019  109.25380   60   -0.4030   27.1750  194.4695
2019  109.25388   62   -0.3251   27.1523  195.4071
2019  109.25397   64   -0.2430   27.1630  198.0447
2019  109.25405   66   -0.1234   27.2234  204.6875
2019  109.25413   68   -0.0664   27.3863  216.4030
2019  109.25423   70   -0.0609   27.5189  229.5733
2019  109.25432   72   -0.0484   27.6743  238.4603
2019  109.25441   74   -0.0097   27.8478  242.8352
2019  109.25449   76    0.0471   27.9405  248.0106
2019  109.25458   78    0.0681   28.1058  255.3205
2019  109.25466   80    0.0575   28.4758  265.1770
2019  109.25474   82    0.1238   28.8198  275.2943
2019  109.25483   84    0.1752   29.0430  282.4478
2019  109.25491   86    0.1714   29.2519  286.3756
2019  109.25499   88    0.1259   29.4694  287.2250
2019  109.25509   90    0.0811   29.6863  285.4066

17

Arctic sea ice / Re: The 2019 melting season

« on: May 19, 2019, 10:10:36 PM »

ascat and uni-hamburg amsr2-uhh (both heavy contrast) overlaid onto mercator 34m salinity. Ascat showing approximate ice age, amsr2 showing more fracture detail. Salinity somewhat lost under the other 2 layers but reddy brown is salltier than greeny yellow saltier than blue. sep24-may18.
Note the incoming weather event from the pacific on day117(0427)
tricky to get the scaling and overlay to match up. The ice matches better than the lat/long lines

18

Developers Corner / Re: Creating Animated GIFs

« on: May 17, 2019, 11:19:42 PM »

Testing amsr2uhh heavy contrast over mercator salinity 34m

19

Arctic sea ice / Re: The 2019 melting season

« on: May 17, 2019, 09:58:54 PM »

Comparison of 2019 and 2016 using unihamburg amsr2-uhh, mar20-may16, pacific side.
Some concentration data has been sacrificed during processing so this should only be seen as a guide. Some days are missing data

20

Arctic sea ice / Re: The 2019 melting season

« on: May 17, 2019, 12:41:21 PM »

The whole Arctic pack is rotating clockwise now. The ice has transform faults all around the CAA and Greenland. Faults are continuous in ice on the north of Ellesmere island on today's Aqua image.

A bit of a 'hill start' but ice north of caa definitely joining the rotation now.
Worldview terra modis may10-16. https://go.nasa.gov/2EinfAu

21

Arctic sea ice / Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves

« on: May 16, 2019, 11:59:50 AM »

True, I mostly look at the numbers but there was also this... https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,2649.msg199429.html#msg199429

It would be easier to understand if the caa coastal ice was rotating but in the last 9 days it has hardly moved westward. Just north and south. The gyre driven ice slipping by the 'thick ice' north of caa.

22

Arctic sea ice / Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves

« on: May 16, 2019, 10:07:16 AM »

Thanks for the clarification FOoW. I didn't notice the green text was a quote.

23

Arctic sea ice / Re: 2019 sea ice area and extent data

« on: May 16, 2019, 12:27:41 AM »

High pressure and clockwise rotation of the ice pack induce Eckman upwelling <snippage>

replied here https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,2417.msg199462.html#msg199462

24

Arctic sea ice / Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves

« on: May 16, 2019, 12:25:16 AM »

High pressure and clockwise rotation of the ice pack induce Eckman upwelling in the near shore waters of Alaska and Canada. The Coriolis effect deflects the ice towards the center of the high and it is replaced by water from below. If high pressure persists it slowly pumps up warm water from the Atlantic layer along the continental shelf.

At the moment little reason to suppose sea ice loss will accelerate, which makes the general disintegration of the sea ice all along the Arctic ocean edge from the Beaufort to the Greenland Sea all a bit of a mystery to me.

Persistent high pressure in May June and July is not good for Arctic sea ice, especially in the Beaufort sea.

perhaps because the caa coast is the one place where the ice isn't really rotating

25

Arctic sea ice / Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves

« on: May 15, 2019, 11:01:57 PM »

Yes. Still looking at it. Here's ascat overlaid onto unihamburg amsr2uhh(heavy contrast), apr24-may14. I still think it's the push from the pacific into the chukchi that causes it. There's a compression from the atmospheric weather into the caa then upwelling or disturbance when the waves hit along the coast. Then reflection out into beaufort.
Will try to look more at the hycom ani tomorrow. It's a better illustration of the movement.
edit:not related, but interesting how the fractures north of ellef ringnes match up with the scatter difference.

26

Arctic sea ice / Re: The 2019 melting season

« on: May 15, 2019, 08:44:39 PM »

Uniquorn, I always thought the buoy temperature was an internal temperature for the buoy. Because there is a electric motor that runs the profiler up and down wouldn't there also be some small amount of heat that affects the buoy temperature readings along with insolation during daylight hours?

Good point Bruce Steele. It is internal temperature and there is some insulation in the buoy so likely to be a time lag as it cools and warms. Buoy temperatures of -40C are not uncommon though so I think these can be seen as a reasonable guide to 'on the ice' temperatures at night.
Electric motor: no. That is on the profiler. A wheel runs it up and down the cable.
Insolation: yes. Likely to be warmer than ice surface temperature and/or air temperature during clear(ish) weather if it isn't covered in snow. A better estimate than the models we all use? I don't know. Should I stop posting them?

whoi tech here https://www.whoi.edu/page.do?pid=20777 but not a lot of detail about the buoy temperature sensor.

27

Arctic sea ice / Re: The 2019 melting season

« on: May 15, 2019, 02:29:27 PM »

'On the ice' temperatures from whoi itp buoys. 4 of them reporting above zero temperatures recently. https://www.whoi.edu/page.do?pid=163197

28

Arctic sea ice / Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves

« on: May 14, 2019, 10:36:05 AM »

Despite the wind based description above, this still looks more like an ocean driven event to me.
noaa bathymetry overlaid onto heavily contrasted uni-hamburg amsr2-uhh may6-13 foward and back (hasty attempt-gotta go gardening )

29

Arctic sea ice / Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves

« on: May 13, 2019, 10:23:26 PM »

Cross posting mercator salinity 0m and 34m, apr4-may10 for ref.
Worldview aqua modis apr6-may13. Lincoln sea events well documented on the Nares thread.
uni-hamburg amsr2-uhh shows the CAA lift off more clearly than ascat above. (click to run)
Widening gyre driven fractures till apr29. Wind changes to southerly on may1 causing small lift off.. Anticyclone with northerlies over central CAA till may5 closing it. By may7 southerlies across central CAA cause larger lift off and by may10 easterlies from Fram strait meet with the southerlies to cause the humped fractures over north of ellesmere. nth greenland fractures not helped by the incoming atlantic current.

30

Walking the walk / Re: Gardening

« on: May 13, 2019, 07:43:36 PM »

We've got calendular just coming out. I'll transplant a couple nearby. Ants are farming on the artichokes as well now.

31

Greenland and Arctic Circle / Re: The 'Very Big Chunk' poll

« on: May 13, 2019, 12:03:02 AM »

Interesting. We do a bit of R&R after posting for 2 days about CAA and Greenland and....
Edit: Apologies. I get it.

32

Arctic sea ice / Re: The 2019 melting season

« on: May 12, 2019, 11:25:44 PM »

Worldview aqua modis, lincoln and wendel seas, may12 or nearest clearest day, 2010-2019
Maybe it's not so bad.

33

Greenland and Arctic Circle / Re: The 'Very Big Chunk' poll

« on: May 12, 2019, 10:03:54 PM »

All hell breaks loose above Greenland, and you guys are only interested in bits and pieces in Nares Strait?

that's crazy for you  I never knew that bit was the wandel sea

34

Arctic sea ice / Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves

« on: May 12, 2019, 08:00:39 PM »

Could be. Maybe b_l will take a look at the Nares entrance and see what comes up.

Reflection of weather event entering chukchi on day119 causes CAA lift off?
ascat day114-131 5days/sec

35

Greenland and Arctic Circle / Re: The 'Very Big Chunk' poll

« on: May 12, 2019, 03:14:39 PM »

That's that then. Lincoln sea is toast.
No, I was hugely optimistic with 4-7days. The ice wasn't listening.

36

Greenland and Arctic Circle / Re: The 'Very Big Chunk' poll

« on: May 12, 2019, 01:09:24 PM »

I won't quibble, but there is a queue building up Could be seen as a 'stall' https://www.polarview.aq/arctic

37

Greenland and Arctic Circle / Re: The 'Very Big Chunk' poll

« on: May 12, 2019, 11:54:28 AM »

Is that 24hrs then? maybe only 20.

38

Greenland and Arctic Circle / Re: The 'Very Big Chunk' poll

« on: May 12, 2019, 11:40:29 AM »

and Ellesmere is the management company

Too cloudy to see how plucky amoeba1bb is doing https://go.nasa.gov/2E6wRhv

39

Arctic sea ice / Re: The 2019 melting season

« on: May 12, 2019, 11:32:16 AM »

ecmwf and gfs indicating temperature around -4C in that area of Laptev. Refreeze? A bit too cloudy to tell. edit: correction, there is refreeze https://go.nasa.gov/2JBxqDp

uni-hamburg amsr2-uhh, may4-11 showing the fracture spreading west to east along the CAA coast.
Worldview viirs brightness temperature (band15) night appears to show a surge continuing eastward around the north of greenland.
Something else happening as well as the possible currents indicated upthread.
edit: Southerlies on the 7th, cyclone on the 8th dragging more southerlies along the coast maybe? Small cyclone in Lincoln today.

40

Arctic sea ice / Re: The 2019 melting season

« on: May 11, 2019, 11:27:55 PM »

Worldview aqua modis caa and nth greenland today.

41

Greenland and Arctic Circle / Re: The 'Very Big Chunk' poll

« on: May 11, 2019, 11:23:16 PM »

Worldview goes back to 2000.
Plucky needs more votes to stay in one piece

42

Greenland and Arctic Circle / Re: The Nares Strait thread

« on: May 11, 2019, 11:21:17 PM »

Slightly off topic at the moment but maybe arches form at the limit where refreeze can keep up with tidal movement.

43

Arctic sea ice / Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves

« on: May 11, 2019, 10:33:13 PM »

Possibly a similar surge last year. Looks different though.
Worldview aqua modis, north greenland may11, 2018 and 2019. This year coincides with an event along the CAA coast and, of course, the Nares is open. Less resistance. Might even be sucked. Sure there's a better term than that.

44

Arctic sea ice / Re: The 2019 melting season

« on: May 11, 2019, 10:07:09 PM »

Mercator (model) salinity 0m and 34m indicating a surge of atlantic water around north greenland combined with returning atlantic water from the north. The surge may be temporary, the other isn't.

The CAA coast isn't looking too good either. https://go.nasa.gov/2DYOu2z
@b_l nice, but there are many repeat frames in that ani

45

Walking the walk / Re: Gardening

« on: May 11, 2019, 09:30:45 PM »

Cattle farm nearby but next door is a hayfield so the fence only gets weedkiller once a year. Mostly the other side.
Black finger  I do that as well but when they are on the flower stems it's hard not to damage them.

46

Greenland and Arctic Circle / Re: The 'Very Big Chunk' poll

« on: May 11, 2019, 09:19:12 PM »

There are 3 blockages in a row there. Perhaps that amplifies the movement. Tide is only .5m at Alert, though it might be more pronounced in the strait. 

47

Arctic sea ice / Re: The Rammb Slider Thread

« on: May 11, 2019, 08:04:18 PM »

Nice animation. If the ice is thick it doesn't have a lot of integrity. That must be warm water upwelling along the coast. Probably been bottom melting for a while.
maybe rotate 90deg and post on melting thread?

48

Greenland and Arctic Circle / Re: The 'Very Big Chunk' poll

« on: May 11, 2019, 07:20:02 PM »

I really want this plucky floe to save the Lincoln sea single handedly. It's only a flesh wound
replaced image with today's aqua, terra, viirs(suomi/npp)
This method does appear to show tidal movement. By the way, does this rule out 'not!' or does it have to stay put for 24hrs ?
edit: added this morning's image to the animation. It's a shame it's so warm there today.

49

Arctic sea ice / Re: The 2019 melting season

« on: May 11, 2019, 07:11:22 PM »

Lincoln Sea ice not looking good today.
Worldview aqua modis, may10-11 https://go.nasa.gov/2E47pcm

50

Greenland and Arctic Circle / Re: The 'Very Big Chunk' poll

« on: May 11, 2019, 01:19:19 PM »

The stats don't look too bad so far but this does not look good.
added link  https://go.nasa.gov/2E1pms5