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CognitiveBias:
Once a child is conceived it already knows life. And you are forcing your values on them. Fatally.
No, every women that I value does not agree with me on this, but I value them for other reasons.
He's a centrist who, unlike Biden, can actually put together coherent sentences during a debate.
He's a centrist who, unlike Biden, can actually put together coherentsentenceslies during a debate.
FIFY
@Shared Humanity
while are d'accord that racism is evil, IMMEDIATE public uproars of the kind seen here are not target leading and almost every war in human history was based at least in parts of this kind of "phariseeism" ( i know that word will cause reactions but this is what it is IMO.
it's good to be agains racism but it's not necessary to lynch someone on a first "fauxpas" which as well could have been a lapsus or language barrier and could have been handled with a friendly hint and/or asking how it was meant before shooting broadsides at someone who generally posted quite useful stuff. this harsh reactions are not fair without checking on intention and first hint friendly and are as intolerant as racism itself.
aggression has never ever lead to anything good, at least not ultimately, short term satisfaction of feeling just is not the goal but making people understand is. obeying is not based on conviction and therefore won't last.
Silly Lad! Common misconception that overpopulation is the problem.
When you take a honest rational look. The worlds richest 50 people own 50% of the resources and are responsible for over 90% of the environmental destruction. The poorest 50% of the worlds population have a net positive effect on the Biodiversity and total Biomass around them. As do any species acting as a responsible member of Gaia's community of species.
If you want to cull population. 50 individuals is plenty. The world actually needs a lot more POOR people if we gonna save it.
Hopefully Trumps wall will be built in time for it to trap the rich under a new ice sheet. We don't want them to get to mexico and ruin the interspecies ecological harmony there and further south.
Another tiny piece of detail, the growth from End-March to Apr 25th was ~0.32 km3, more or less the average of the last few years. The negative feedback of low volume leading to higher growth failed to materialize.
...
The idea of porous ice increasing contact with the air is fanciful (to put it politely) and while first year ice contains more brine than multiyear ice the effects won't be as dramatic as is often speculated here.
...GC,
Is there any correlation between winter sea ice volume maxima and summer minima ? (I bet someone on ASIF has done it).
Sorry to point out the obvious, but there is no need to calculate a statistical correlation between winter sea ice volume maxima and summer minima, because the two are directly related by a simple formula:
summer ice minimum = (previous) winter ice maximum - total spring/summer melt
The evolution of the three interlinked variables over time is completely summarized in the following excellent chart by Jim Pettit:
...
And indeed, the impetus behind this thread was the use of an exponential extrapolation to forecast Sept sea ice, while the use of the simpler linear function is more widely accepted for the job (and rightly so, imho).
Oren, sorry to say that, but that phrase is nonsense.
As Oren points out, using an exponential trend to forecast is nonsense. What is the predicted value for 2050? -3mkm^2? That's nonsense. It's nothing more than curve fitting and ignores the physics of the actual situation.
@all except 5to10
Don't you feel like I do, that this thread is a waste of time/energy?
@5to10
Just a few personal questions
- How old are you?
- Do you have children?
- If not, do you intend to have some?
Just bare answers, w/o comments, please. Those answers seem important to understand where you speak from.
(I am 63, 3 children, 3 grandchildren)
I'm not sure an "open thread" like this really belongs in the Cryosphere subforum - worth moving it to "The Rest" subforum with the rest of the general threads?
Ramen !!
Very little here relates to ice.
Cid Yama
Any chance you attend RGs & Ags?
Terry
Thanks Jim... I find your commentary to be always of the highest quality as well.
Unfortunate that his statement was again easily refuted by the truth.
Still waiting on one of you 3-5 people to present some kind of rational statement in contradiction to what I'm explaining.
You'd think there would be strength in numbers here as usual, but the truth doesn't lose to the deception of the majority.
Refute it or accept it.
5to10
As I understand your argument you're saying that if we all come together as a unity, something magical may happen, and this may save us all.
You then attack everyone with a different perspective, thereby proving not only that unity doesn't exist at present, but that anyone dividing the world into those that believe (in unity), and those that don't believe, will forever preclude a unity of thought, and that your magical moment will never occur.
Terry
First completely meaningful statement I have read on this thread -- thank you.
5to10
As I understand your argument you're saying that if we all come together as a unity, something magical may happen, and this may save us all.
You then attack everyone with a different perspective, thereby proving not only that unity doesn't exist at present, but that anyone dividing the world into those that believe (in unity), and those that don't believe, will forever preclude a unity of thought, and that your magical moment will never occur.
Terry
QuoteIf this 'reality' is even real to begin with...
https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/elon-musk-simulated-universe-hypothesis
Just another way to rationalize your way out of doing something so you can continue being lazy in selfishness.
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If you cannot say for certain it is impossible, then you must say there may be a chance that we aren't seeing to literally save the world and ourselves.
The world will be just fine, and I don't see why we need "saving." This is simply another abrupt climate change, and even Homo Sapiens has survived several so far.
Can't let that go, Jiim, having been involved in cleaning up the aftermath of societal collapse here and there. Being a reluctant father-confessor to both the victims and perpetrators of atrocities teaches one not to regard the very possible future of humanity with equanimity.
It isn't "the very possible" future. It is, by far, part of the most likely future. However, I think the development of Computer Science is progressing even faster than Climate Change, and that Mankind will not even notice when Homo Sapiens goes extinct. (In fact, even the last of the species might not notice.)
...
So far it has been measured that > 90% of released subsea methane is converted by micro organisms and never reaches the surface. So increase of Methane is not from either natural gas or clathrates.
It's the car's fault? Or as my 13 yr-old would say 'Logic much, brah?'
ah from the mouths of snarky 13 year olds!
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c: exploding population in humans directly resulting from industrialization, not vice versa.
just as 90% of other problems we see. Warming, greenhouse gases for example is measured from a pre-industrial baseline for that reason as well of course.
"We" discuss problems and solutions from a limited perspective i fear.
"We" overpopulate, pollute, and warm the planet.
"We" think of techno fixes which fall short and bring new dillemas.
"We" discuss the elite etc etc.
Do we really?
No, not those of us who have remained outside of industrial society, and arguably to a lesser degree agrarian society.
And that would be some staggering percentage, like 99.9% of anything that has ever lived on Earth.
Yet "we"can't even see their fine example, we destroy them as well and choose for over complication and denial.
Like knowing you took a wrong turn in the road and are heading off course but imagine finding a hitherto unknown new path that will magically lead to your destination.
It is quit obvious we need to get rid of industrial society, go back where you took the wrong turn.
"But you would have us all be cavemen again and we would not live past 35 years old!"
That would be the usual reply, which is nonsense as is clearly visible in hunter gatherers today still.
One needs not copy their customs, clothing, attire or language, and yes they do grow old too.
What is their nature, what is it they do?
They occupy themselves looking after primary needs and culture.
They don't require exponential destruction and depletion of environment.
Industrial society however can do nothing else, that is it's nature.
I think that by controlling export through fram/garlic press/Bering stretch , enough ice could be saved to prolong the demise of the Arctic.The problem with this idea along with that of trying to pump seawater to the top of the ice to build it up, is both fail to understand the scale of resources and energy necessary to implement them.
While they are presented as "simple" solutions they do not begin to address the work required. Blocking the Fram and the channels in the CAA would without question take more resources and energy than every other major civil enterprise ever attempted, combined.
The pump idea would require the placement (and continuing maintenance...) of literally 10's of millions of pumps, which would themselves require the energy to pump thousands of KM3 of sea water across the ice. To keep that incontext, the City of New York pumps only about 2.0 KM3 of waste water during an entire *year*; we're talking about pumping over five thousand times that.
In short, I consider even the *discussion* of such a solution utterly nonsensical, and a distraction from much more effective and rational discussions about mitigating the proximate cause of the problem we are faced with.
Weather for the next several days at least favors minor expansion everywhere except perhaps Okhotsk. Let's hope the max comes late and lingers....
Why care? All this hope or dis-hope bothers me. We see things happening and we report our impressions. If you do anything else you are not reporting ground truth.
