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Messages - wili

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Consequences / Re: The Holocene Extinction
« on: January 24, 2020, 04:42:24 PM »
Most small-scale, traditional communities around the world had reached some kind of sustainable equilibrium with their immediate environment by the beginning of the modern era (~1500).

There were and are hundreds and probably thousands of ways for humans to live sustainably in their environment. It is really only one society that has proved utterly disastrous and unsustainable on a global level, and that is modern industrial society.

And yes, that now includes nearly all humans to some extent or another, but the top ~20% do ~80% of the consumption and damage.

The rest / Re: Archaeology/Paleontology news
« on: January 01, 2020, 09:02:41 PM »

4,000-Year-Old Guide to the Ancient Egyptian Underworld May Be Oldest Illustrated ‘Book’

Archaeologists recovered the remnants of an ancient “Book of Two Ways” from a sarcophagus

Arctic sea ice / Re: "Stupid" Questions :o
« on: December 31, 2019, 09:45:55 PM »
As I said, I may have missed a data point or two. It may have been a slightly higher rate of growth and it may have been 400 years...

In any case, eternal growth is both impossible and undesirable on this planet. But yeah, not likely to happen anyway.

Arctic sea ice / Re: "Stupid" Questions :o
« on: December 30, 2019, 09:25:24 PM »
Yes, currently, the amount of heat generated directly from all the processes that keep industrial society going is negligible when compared to the amount CO2, methane and other ghgs are heating the planet.

But I think it was Ugo Bardi who calculated that, with a moderate rate of economic growth (I think it was 3%), even if all energy is produced with zero CO2 emissions, the heat from economic activity would in 200 years (as I recall) end up warming the earth to the level of the surface of the sun.

I may have gotten some details wrong, but the point is clear--eternal economic growth is utter idiocy on a finite planet, no matter where the energy for that growth comes from.

ETA: It looks like the study was probably incorporated into this book:

The rest / Re: Political theatre/wrestling
« on: December 28, 2019, 07:43:16 AM »
Thanks for the insights. Glad you stayed out of the slammer.

The rest / Re: Political theatre/wrestling
« on: December 27, 2019, 10:03:51 PM »
What activity by a president would you consider to rise to the level of impeachment, then?

Just curious...

"...all forests are created equal..."

Did you mean "not all forests are created equal"?

The rest / Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« on: December 26, 2019, 07:00:39 AM »
Do you have a less shady source than 'News Thud'?

Their headline focuses specifically on Schiff, but I don't see him mentioned in your other two sources.

The rest / Re: The Trump Presidency
« on: December 26, 2019, 06:01:25 AM »
Got it. My bad, and my apologies.

The rest / Re: The Trump Presidency
« on: December 26, 2019, 04:06:22 AM »
I took my earlier comment down, but I'm not sure what all the fuss is about.

Quote from: sidd on December 23, 2019, 08:32:47 AM

    "I never vote. But if i do vote it'll be for Trump, just to piss the democrats off."

And above he is touting Putin as a truth teller, so he claims to value truth yet would be willing to support the objectively lying-est president or politician probably ever. That strikes me as a bit of an inconsistency/contradiction.

Is it now somehow outrageous to point out apparent inconsistencies and contradictions in fellow posters comments? Is that somehow a 'smear.' I am sure my posts show all sorts of inconsistencies, and I personally am more than happy for others to point them out, as they have on occasion.

And Happy Christmas everyone. I spent part of the day, as I do nearly every day, providing (sometimes cooking myself) hundreds of bowls per week of hot, excellent soup and other goodies to homeless (and anyone else who want them) in our urban setting. Glad to hear others are doing some of the same.

The rest / Re: The Trump Presidency
« on: December 25, 2019, 04:15:27 PM »
The WH has put Hanukkah on the Advent Calendar. Judaism has been declared a nationality. And Trump's personal lawyer has asserted that holocaust victim George Soros is not a Jew because he doesn't go to church.

The stupid just keeps on coming...

Hef, it looks like you can take Norway off that list :/ :

 Norway resists growing environmental pressure over oil

Western Europe’s biggest producer faces questions as climate concerns intensify

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   Norway will continue to pump oil as long as there is demand, the country’s outgoing oil minister has said, resisting growing environmental calls for Europe’s biggest petroleum producer to leave its substantial energy reserves in the ground.

More than 50 per cent of the country’s reserves are yet to be tapped and Oslo would continue to encourage companies to drill for them, said Kjell-Borge Freiberg, who resigned on Wednesday and has been replaced by a politician known for her scepticism about climate change.

“We will be a supplier as long as there is demand for oil and gas . . . There will be demand for oil and not least gas for a long, long, long time ahead,” he said, speaking ahead of the 50th anniversary of the discovery of oil in Norway on December 23, an event he described as Norway’s equivalent of the moon landing.

A little thing called scientific reticence:

"uncertainty is not our friend"


I have a feeling that if his doctors told him "The circulation of blood to your brain may be failing rather quickly" then Hef would jump up and down with joy because the 'may' in the warning expressed some uncertainly ! :)

The rest / Re: Good music
« on: December 08, 2019, 06:19:24 PM »
The Band: Acadian Driftwood

The rest / Re: Political theatre/wrestling
« on: December 08, 2019, 06:17:43 PM »
I'd call that false equivalence, but we obviously disagree (and to be clear, I am have been deeply disappointed in much that the Dems have and have not done over the years...or rather, I would be disappointed if I ever had much of an expectation of them doing much of the right thing as long as they are dominated by corporate interests)

Arctic sea ice / Re: "Stupid" Questions :o
« on: December 08, 2019, 04:03:17 PM »
"Where do people emigrate to and where do they emigrate from? "

(When people migrate into a country, they immigrate not emigrate)

And as others have pointed out, there are many other factors involved in these decisions in many/most cases.

The rest / Re: Political theatre/wrestling
« on: December 08, 2019, 03:46:11 PM »
Turley is a partisan hack. He said pretty much the opposite of all those points when he argue in favor of the Clinton impeachment.

Arctic sea ice / Re: "Stupid" Questions :o
« on: December 07, 2019, 04:58:09 AM »
Yes, SOME life will likely survive pretty much whatever we throw at them...tardigrades come to mind.

But we are indeed in the midst of on of only six Mass Extinction Events since the evolution of complex life, and it's just gotten started...I don't think it is our place to minimize this world-life shattering event caused by us (specifically by modern industrial society).

And the whole matters more than the parts, so the well being of the entire community of life is more important that any one species within that community, even if that species happens to be one you cherish since you are part of it :)

Arctic sea ice / Re: "Stupid" Questions :o
« on: December 05, 2019, 02:19:53 AM »
Well...Pythagoreanism is arguably one of the first attempts at science, as he/they tried to explain the physical universe (music, in particular) using mathematics.

Arctic sea ice / Re: "Stupid" Questions :o
« on: December 03, 2019, 09:25:41 PM »
Well, not quite evergrowing, but your general point is otherwise quite right, sadly.

Science / Re: 2019 Mauna Loa CO2 levels
« on: November 29, 2019, 11:29:46 PM »
Well, it only took like...what...ten posts basically repeating (more eloquently) my basic point before Hef finally conceded the point... :)

But in the midst, we got a nicely thought out and worded piece from Sam, which included centrally:

"...The fundamental basis of the current economic paradigm is growth.

The fundamental basis of all or nearly all religions is growth..."

This, I believe, is true.

But it's even more fundamental than that. The whole global culture (industrial, capitalist, consumerist...whatever combination you want to call it) is primarily geared to annihilation of life on the planet and destruction of the processes that have supported said life for millions to hundreds of millions of years.

There is pretty close to a one-to-one correspondence to who gets the most money and who is most centrally and powerfully involved in this destruction (with only a few exceptions that I am aware of).

High finance has always supported the fastest and biggest return for the buck, which nearly always has meant the fastest way to convert the natural integrity of the planet into local and/or global toxic waste. These are the folks that get some of the biggest pay on the planet.

Arms manufacturers are up there, too.

And so on down the line, with some getting good pay for just doing the very 'important' work of distracting us from the astonishing abyss we are throwing ourselves and the planet into so we don't stop consuming or start revolting....

Science / Re: 2019 Mauna Loa CO2 levels
« on: November 28, 2019, 05:37:11 AM »
Am I missing something?

None of the lines in his graph are pointing downward, so they do not indicate a decrease in the rate of growth.

Perhaps the rate of acceleration of increase is not increasing. If you want to squeeze some kind of comfort out of that, be my guest.

But maybe someone who has taken math more recently than 45 some years ago should chime in here before I embarrass myself further?? :)

The rest / Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« on: November 22, 2019, 09:23:38 PM »
Slight problem with that thesis--millions more voted for Clinton than for Trump.

Policy and solutions / Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« on: November 05, 2019, 03:05:44 PM »
Ideally, of course, the government is in the hands of the people, and (ideally again) no one person has extraordinary influence over government if monetary power were kept fairly equal.


The rest / Re: Astronomical news
« on: November 05, 2019, 03:01:54 PM »
Me too. I remember them being animals. The rabbit, as I recall, could also hear things from a very far distance. The moral of the story is now lost to me, though.

The rest / Re: Astronomical news
« on: November 05, 2019, 05:03:22 AM »
"Look Far Enough and You'll See the Back of Your Head"

This is not a new idea. I remember talking about it with my nerdy friends in HighSchool in the very early '70s (friends who went on to  become astrophysicists, mathematicians, and computer program designers, while I wallowed in the humanities :) ).

Policy and solutions / Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« on: November 05, 2019, 04:42:33 AM »
"I don’t think we should concede the term “neoliberalism” to the brutish establishment using state power to redistribute wealth from the haves to the have-nots."

Did he get that last part switched around, or am I missing something here?

The rest / Re: Archaeology/Paleontology news
« on: November 05, 2019, 04:36:04 AM »
"Beats clay tablets..."

Really? Wouldn't we need to wait 5-6000 years to know if that's true?

Clay tablets are at once immediately accessible (assuming you know the script and the language...which...we're all up on our cuneiform and Sumerian grammar, right?), and yet also has proven to be extremely durable (unless crushed into dust by the US stupidly and needlessly launching multiple invasions of the areas where these ancient civilizations evolved).

But yeah, you can fit a lot of useless, stupid movies on the glass versions...whether distant future generations will be impressed by this we will never know, but I have my doubts.

Policy and solutions / Re: Electric cars
« on: October 21, 2019, 05:04:33 PM »
I tend to agree with @socketwench:

I don't want self-driving cars.

I want boring things like public transit that comes so regularly you don't have to check a schedule.

...I want cities that aren't built around [f'n] cars-as-default.

Arctic sea ice / Re: When will the Arctic Go Ice Free?
« on: October 17, 2019, 02:41:44 PM »
Wouldn't that depend also on the quality of the ice? How salty or slushy it is, for instance?

The rest / Re: Peak Oil and Climate Change
« on: October 17, 2019, 05:33:44 AM »
oren wrote: "...denial in disguise..."

That's why I've long called him a 'crypto-denialist'

vox quoted John Oliver:

"...Donald Trump nominated former AccuWeather CEO Barry Myers to lead the National Weather Service in 2017.

Bogged down by conflicts of interest and a labor department investigation into AccuWeather’s culture of sexual harassment, Barry Myers’s nomination has stalled for two years in the Senate; if they don’t approve him by the end of 2019, Trump will have to resubmit his name. Which prompts the question: “Why not find another guy?” Oliver ranted.

“Any other guy! Except of course, for that to happen, Trump would have to do stuff, know stuff and think workplace harassment is a bad thing, and none of us should be holding our breath on that.”

Watch out, vox. Don't you know that around here the gospel is that the real enemy is the corporate Democrats!! :) :)

Consequences / Re: The Holocene Extinction
« on: October 12, 2019, 07:08:01 PM »
I don't follow.

If this is mostly from ag products, where is the carbon sink. Maybe in the areas converting to no-till it could be, but where they are practicing traditional modern ag practices, there will be very little if any carbon sink...more likely carbon loss from degraded soils.

But perhaps I'm missing something here?

The rest / Re: The Trump Presidency
« on: October 04, 2019, 06:19:28 PM »
Thanks for that, vox...glad to hear it's doable!  :o

Contrary to the very well publicized facts presented by the WH itself, 40% of Republicans still don't believe that Trump mentioned Biden or his son in his call to the Ukrainian President.

How can a democracy operate when so many just willfully believe things that are contrary to the facts?

In other news:

There is a belief that the impeachment inquiry hurt Republicans in the 1998 midterm elections. That may be true, but this polling suggests the situation with Clinton and Trump are very different. Impeaching Clinton was far less popular than impeaching Trump is today. ..

The rest / Re: The Trump Presidency
« on: October 02, 2019, 09:28:45 PM »
Follow up on a study posted earlier that showed that countries with large wealth gaps are more likely to move toward authoritarian leadership:

Top 1% Gained $21 Trillion in Wealth Since 1989 While Bottom Half Lost $900 Billion

"The top one percent owns nearly $30 trillion of assets while the bottom half owns less than nothing."

Yup, he raised $25 m in the last quarter, and none from Wall Street.

But the headline is technically wrong, since Trump is also a candidate, and he raised $125 m in the last quarter.

People on both sides want to buy this office, but Trump is the one with the most backers who have the deepest pockets.

The rest / Re: Political theatre/wrestling
« on: October 02, 2019, 01:31:36 AM »

So what. A news organization got a detail in a story wrong, and then corrected the story. It happens pretty much every day. If you or Dore are going to jump up and down every time that happens, you're gonna get sore leg muscles from repetitive motion sickness! :D

The rest / Re: The Trump Presidency
« on: October 02, 2019, 12:45:20 AM »

Blumenthal optimistic about GOP support in Senate for impeachment
Privately, Republican senators are 'deeply troubled' by events, he says

Former Senator Jeff Flake caused a stir Saturday when he amended Republican consultant Mike Murphy's comment that 30 GOP senators would vote to impeach President Donald Trump if they could keep their votes secret. "That's not true," the former Arizona senator told Slate's Mary Harris. "There would be at least 35."

Why Mitch McConnell Can’t “Garland” the Impeachment Inquiry
The presiding officer in an impeachment case is actually the chief justice of the United States.

Sooo, Mitch can't keep it from coming to the Senate, and a majority want to see Trump impeached. None of us know what is going to happen. But we are in unprecedented times in many ways.

Permafrost / Re: Toward Improved Discussions of Methane & Climate
« on: October 02, 2019, 12:18:43 AM »
Thanks, Ken. Are there any specific findings in there that particularly stand out to you?

The rest / Re: The Trump Presidency
« on: October 01, 2019, 10:18:47 PM »
Don't assume the Senate would *never* remove Donald Trump

Sen. Bernie Sanders believes ‘incredibly corrupt’ Pres. Trump should be impeached

Since Pelosi formally announced her intention to initiate impeachment inquiries into Trumps nefarious activities, his approval ratings (at 538) have dropped from ~43% to 41.5% (similarly at Realclear) it certainly doesn't seem to be making him more popular. As Bernie, in Neven's/Dore's carefully edited clip noted again and one can know what will happen in this process for certain. As Bernie also noted, and as most people could clearly see, the grounds for Clinton's impeachment were absurd to the extreme, basically prevaricating about some consensual sex. So of course he got a lot of sympathy. The charges and really what we already know are far more serious here.

Policy and solutions / Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
« on: September 30, 2019, 09:59:51 PM »
Steve writes: "We shouldn't pigeon-hole all poor individuals as the being the same..."

But then immediately turns around and pigeon-holes every poor person as being the same: "What poor person doesn't want to be less poor? "


The rest / Re: Elections 2020 USA
« on: September 30, 2019, 02:06:44 PM »

Did Neven just 'hoist me on my own petard'!  :o

Even far-right Republicans are starting to get disgusted with Trump.

Again, I am with Sanders and AOC and most others on the non-corporate left of the Dems in calling for impeachment.

Those of you against it are aligning yourselves with the likes of former WSJ opinion writer David Brooks.

The rest / Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« on: September 30, 2019, 06:13:04 AM »
Up until about the '80, the poor generally had healthier diets, too. Rice and beans and greens is a pretty darn healthy basis for a diet. But with McDonaldization of cheap food and various aspects of the ag bill pushing carbohydrate calories over fruits and veggies, things went down hill fast.

The Powell Memo (or Manifesto) is said to have been the turning point in the super rich deciding to take over society more completely than they had done up to that point.

The rest / Re: Elections 2020 USA
« on: September 30, 2019, 05:23:50 AM »
Lotsa stuff that has never happened before is happening pretty much every day on many fronts...

'It has not happened before, therefore it can never happen...' is, I'm pretty sure, some kind of logical fallacy, but I can't think of the formal name of it right now, and my search engine seems to be on strike right now! :)

(I've never written that last statement before, by the I guess it is impossible that I just did now!! :) :) :) )

ETA: Ah, found it. It seems to be a variation on Normalcy Bias:


And things do seem to be shifting rather quickly indeed. The congressional Republicans have so far presented a fairly unified front in their support of Trump, pretty much whatever he did. But now, after Trump essentially called for a civil war, at least one Republican Representative (so far), Adam Kinzinger, has called the 'president's' statement 'beyond repugnant.' We'll see where this goes, both on the street and in the congress...but it is hard not to notice that, again, a lot going on here is pretty f'n un-precedented.

The rest / Re: Elections 2020 USA
« on: September 29, 2019, 09:13:46 PM »
Poll: Majority of Americans say impeachment inquiry into Trump is necessary

"...Among Independents, 49% approve and 51% disapprove, the poll found..."

(Which is a statistically insignificant difference.)

The rest / Re: Elections 2020 USA
« on: September 29, 2019, 03:59:40 PM »
The tides are shifting quickly.

"...increases in support for impeachment ...The Morning Consult poll saw an increase from 66 percent to 79 percent among Democratic voters, 33 percent to 39 percent among Independent voters, and 5 percent to 10 percent among Republican voters..."

Engaging in a very well justified lawful constitutional process that was designed by the founders to curb abuses of power in the highest office in the land is far from 'getting into slime.'

It is, in fact, a constitutional and patriotic duty. And it is very sad, indeed, that it has come to the point that such ultimate measures now must be taken in the face of such overwhelming corruption.

The rest / Re: The Trump Presidency
« on: September 29, 2019, 03:32:30 AM »
Yeah, I think that's called 'whataboutism,' and its a poor attempt at dodging blame, whoever uses it.

(Context, for those who don't memorize every line of every story they ever read about Trump:

"On election interference, Trump told Lavrov and Kislyak he was not concerned about Russian meddling because the United States did the same in other countries"

The rest / Re: Elections 2020 USA
« on: September 29, 2019, 02:05:40 AM »
A new poll from NPR-PBS NewsHour-Marist found that 49 percent of Americans now approve of impeachment

Republican support for impeaching Trump doubled in the past few days amid escalating Ukraine scandal

Most Americans support impeachment if Trump pressured Ukraine

Consequences / Re: Sea Level Rise and Social Cost of Carbon
« on: September 28, 2019, 03:37:09 PM »
"We should have marched on the streets demanding change 30 years ago instead of sitting and waiting for somebody to fix everyting."

Well, some of 'us' did.

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