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Topics - opensheart

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Science / Hadley Cell configuration
« on: January 30, 2016, 05:38:40 PM »
Dear Forum,   Hadley Cells have not had a topic in awhile, so it recommended I start a new topic instead of reactivating an old one.

My understanding of planetary circulation systems like Hadley Cells changed today.  I would appreciate your feedback.  Am I on the right track or further from it?

I used to think the number of cells was changeable.  We currently have 3 cells, Hadley, Ferrel, and Polar.   Lower the temperature enough and the Polar would grow and the Hadley would fade until you had just two.  Lower it still more and you would have just one, a Polar cell over a snowball earth.  And by the same thinking, raise the temperature from our current arrangement enough and the Polar cell goes away.  Raise it still more, and we get to a hot house world with just one cell, the Hadley cell which would stretch from the equator to the pole.

But today my understanding shifted.  I'm now thinking that these cells are not interchangeable.  You can't replace one with another.  Because of a bunch of math and physics and things like planetary rotation and axle tilt, you will always have 3 cells, or at least the potential for 3 cells.

They are more like a series of buckets.   There will always be 3 buckets.  You always start by filling the first bucket.   When the first bucket gets full enough it starts spilling over into the second bucket.   Fill the first and second buckets enough and it will start spilling over into the third.
Even a low energy/low heat planet (like a snowball Earth or current conditions on Mars) would still have a Hadley cell.  (It would have the potential for the others, there just would not be enough heat/energy to activate them).    Meaning as soon as a planet gets enough atmosphere and enough solar heat/energy the first cell, the Hadley cell would start up.

As the heat/energy rises, and the original Hadley cell raises its territory above freezing, the heat/energy starts to spill over into the 2nd cell (Ferrel).  Moisture from this 2nd cell would still travel north and rise up near its northern boundary, which would most likely be over the edge of the great ice sheet.  The rising air would dump its precipitation just beyond the edge, which would fall as snow and help build the ice sheet.  But beyond that there would be little heat/energy conveyed.

Raise the heat/energy enough and the 2nd cell fills up enough to start spilling over into the third cell.    Now the polar cell is receiving enough heat/energy that the great ice sheets pull way back and the ground may melt free of snow in the summer.

Raise the heat/energy still more and the 3rd cell fills up enough for its annual average to stay above freezing.   Oh it may still form ice and snow in the winter, but it will all melt out in the summer, there will be no permafrost or permanent ice sheet.

Raise the heat/energy still more, and all the cells will stay above freezing all year long. 

Then no matter how much you raise the heat/energy.   As long as there is still atmosphere,  there will still be 3 cells.  As I read today, even Venus with its extreme heat/energy still has 3 cells.  There is a huge Hadley cell.    There is a narrow “Polar Rim” as they call it.  And then there is a Polar Vortex, a split polar vortex with two permanent (?) centers.

So once there is enough heat/energy to activate 3 cells, there will always be 3 cells in some form or another.  The 1st cell can expand farther from the equator.  The 2nd and 3rd cells can be compressed into a smaller space.  The 2nd and 3rd cells can heat up and become more energetic.  But it is not the case of  one cell being consumed by another.

Policy and solutions / President Obama Visits Alaska
« on: September 05, 2015, 04:39:50 AM »
I didn't find this posted elsewhere.  I debated where to put this.   I decided to put it here based on President Obama speech at the GLACIER Conference.   I would encourage people to go through this site.  Watch the different videos and particularly find and listen to his speech which is just over half way down the page.

Walking the walk / Stashing away 'care' packages for survivors
« on: May 23, 2014, 06:13:31 AM »
Suppose you had the ability to build a time capsule that would be opened say 50 years from now.  But this was not your ordinary time capsule.  Not one where you leave something cute to be found 50 years from now.   And you were not leaving notes or picture of what your life was like now.   No this was a special purpose time capsule.

This time capsule would be open by survivors.   People who had survived what ever bad things happened in the next 50 years.   They were coming to your time capsule looking for things to help them survive in the world they find themselves in.

What would you put in this time capsule?  Tools?   Seeds?   Books?      What things do we have now, that if put away and protected would be the most helpful to them then?

The forum / problems accessing Neven's Blog
« on: May 19, 2014, 08:00:15 PM »
Anyone else getting the following error when trying to get to  ?

Error 522 Ray ID: 12d227af96a60168
Connection timed out

"Contact your hosting provider letting them know your web server is not completing requests. An Error 522 means that the request was able to connect to your web server, but that the request didn't finish. The most likely cause is that something on your server is hogging resources."

Consequences / Places becoming less livable
« on: July 09, 2013, 07:29:23 PM »
How about a thread for stories/new clips about places that are becoming less livable.

I would start with these two:
I wonder if the picture in the first one is really a picture of current conditions in Phoenix, AZ.

Walking the walk / Threat - Response Levels
« on: May 25, 2013, 06:08:57 AM »
I've been struggling with ...  I guess it is: "how much people should be afraid."
On one extreme there is the  Near-Term-Extinction view. On the other end of the spectrum, there is the "its all just cycles" or someone will figure something out and we will be OK, so I don't have to do anything.

I'm thinking the truth is somewhere in between.    That people should be concerned.  That people should take action.   But how much action is appropriate?   Don't want to tell people to quit their jobs, sell their possessions and wait for the end on a mountain top.

I've been playing with the idea of a DefCon system.   The US Military uses the system to categorize the threat level and appropriate preparedness  actions.   In the system, '5' is peace.  '1' is war.

So in climate change,  '5' would be no threat at all, and no action is necessary. (well OK, no more than the normal have some batteries and flashlight in case the power goes out)  '4' would mean something has happened, or enough has happened to justify some increase in preparedness.   '3' would mean more seriousness, etc.

I'm thinking the system would be based on things that actually happen.   Take action when something actually happens, not when it is predicted or feared to happen.

For instance if two or more of the following things actually happen, then it would justify moving to DefCon 4:

  • When the Arctic Sea Ice melts down to 1/2 it's normal size
  • When a storm floods New York Subways for the first time
  • When there is a heat wave/drought that rivals the Dust Bowl years
  • When all of Greenland experiences melting, more than what is accumulating
  • When the US average temperature is a whole degree above normal for a whole year
  • When blocking weather patterns get to be the norm
  • etc

And what steps are appropriate for DefCon 4?  How about:
  • Learn to plant and grow something,  anything, just for the skill
  • Look into getting a rain barrel, just to help water the garden/trees
  • Try canning something,  anything, just for the practice.  Perhaps have a canning party at church.  where everyone trys their hand at it while some experienced people lead.
  • Try making a candle, or mead or wine
  • Try making a quilt, or sewing something.
  • collect some how-to books
  • etc
In short, DefCon 4 is a elevated risk when one seeks to expand one's how-to knowledge.   We are not trying to totally live off the land yet.  But we are taking a refresher course on low carbon ways of doing things and seeing which ones appeal to us.   Perhaps start them as a light hobby.  But nothing where our neighbours would think we are strange.

DefCon 3 would be where these hobbies get serious.   We start investing serious time and money in skills, equipment that would help us or provide something we can barter with.

DefCon 2 is when we start taking serious action.   That's when we move out to our place in the country or what ever.

DefCon 1 is when everything falls apart and we now have to make it with what ever skills and stuff we have prepared.

A system that would control fear and provide a framework for planning and action.   Where one is not too far out in left field too early, but neither is one caught flat footed too late.

Does this sound like a usable approach?

The forum / Can not see picture, charts, etc
« on: May 12, 2013, 05:17:35 AM »
OK, this may be a newbie thing.  But just in case anyone else has the same issue.
I was not able to see any charts, pictures, vids in the forum.
All I could see was the text.
Posts would say they attached this-that or the-other, but I could not see it.
I tried both Firefox and Internet explorer
I tried http and https
Nothing worked,  until I logged in to the forum with a login and password to post something.
And then I saw all kinds of things.
So at least for me, one has to login to the site to see more than just the text posts.

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