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Messages - kassy

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Consequences / Re: COVID-19
« on: August 11, 2020, 04:54:28 PM »
The normal average does not really count in pandemics i think.

The rest / Re: Pareidolia
« on: August 11, 2020, 02:54:36 PM »
Cool! The Indian elephant has ears shaped like the subcontinent before it rammed into Eurasia...although that might be pareidolia too.  :)

The politics / Re: Elections 2020 USA
« on: August 10, 2020, 01:58:45 PM »
Re: I'm not a leftie

Coulda fooled me ...


Well to safe the world we need to know what destroys it and this is capitalism/concentrated wealth.

Of course most of us in the west are very conditioned that capitalism is a good thing.

Theoretically we could have many different shades of capitalism but we have this exploit to the hilt version instead of a benign one were everyone is happily competing while not destroying the planet.

So where does that leave us? Wanting a future for our children makes you a leftie now and that should be weird. But will people notice?

Both president options are serving this system. Etc.

Walking the walk / Re: Why are youngsters staying away from this site?
« on: August 09, 2020, 07:49:11 PM »
I think the problem is that (climate) activists like me - who aren't scientists with a lot of knowledge about the arctic - don't get accepted here easily by some members. We are told to shut up and stay in the background. So why bother hanging around?

You are confusing some things here.

It was probably the thread you posted in and what you posted related to the frequency.
If you have not done so read the ASIB blog from the start. Not in one go but a couple a day.

Also since this thread is not relevant to the Subforum or On Topic i will close this.

Walking the walk / Re: Why are youngsters staying away from this site?
« on: August 09, 2020, 07:29:00 PM »
The original complaint was for linking from some other side with questionable value... or at least probably not the only site the youth use.

Things change over times and with current technologies it changes even faster.

In the beginning of the century message boards were really cool. There were a way to meet people from all over the planet. That changed already when FB and latter Twitter came up. In FB you could make your own groups so that led to the slow decline of the general message boards.

Then with youth they don´t wanna be on the app there parents use so they already use all kinds of different apps anyway.

But anyone who searches for info can still easily find this site or real climate and many others.

There are plenty of women doing good work so report about that in the appropriate threads.

It does not look like this thread is actually about walking the walking so i might close it.

Science / Re: The Father Of Global Warming?
« on: August 09, 2020, 06:45:07 PM »
Blatant cheating via the link i posted above on Revelle:

While it was true that most of the CO2 molecules added to the atmosphere would wind up in the oceans within a few years, most of these molecules (or others already in the oceans) would promptly be evaporated out.   
Revelle could scarcely present that as a new discovery, for the reactions were all tabulated in data known since the 1930s.(25) But nobody had worked out this particular implication of the data. Greenhouse warming had seemed to nearly all scientists a subject of no practical significance. The few researchers who had looked into it had been interested in the oceans mainly because sea water would absorb CO2 on cooling and evaporate it on warming, which might help explain the famous puzzle of the ice ages. People had accordingly calculated how the CO2 content of water changed with temperature. They had seen no reason to take up the problem, which turned out to be quite different, of calculating how much new CO2 the sea water could absorb at a given temperature.   
Even after Revelle made the calculation, its implications were hard to grasp. When Arnold, visiting Scripps in January 1956, wrote about it to Anderson, his collaborator was skeptical of "Revelle's idea that 80% of the CO2 added to the atmosphere will stay there" (he pointed to the uncertainties in biomass uptake). Craig too found much uncertainty in such processes, and Revelle's insight had scant influence on the other two papers when they were published.(26) Even in Revelle's own paper with Suess, the bulk of the text reflected the pair's original belief that the oceans were absorbing most of the new CO2. The key paragraph, the one that said seawater needed to absorb only about a tenth as much gas as a simple-minded calculation supposed, stood apart like an isolated thought. In the archives it is visibly an addition, Scotch-taped onto the original draft.(27*)   
Revelle did revise a curve in the paper that he had calculated for the future of atmospheric CO2, finding now that the concentration of the gas should be rising after all. But in this calculation he assumed that industry would emit the gas in future at the same rate as at that time. Few people yet recognized that population and industrialization were shooting up exponentially. So Revelle predicted CO2 would level off, a few centuries hence, with a total increase of 40% or less.

So at that time it was still a developing idea.

The paper Jim Hunt posted does not name it but the quote is very much the crux of our problem.

The rest / Re: Pareidolia
« on: August 09, 2020, 06:16:04 PM »
Lets call her Nellie the Mammoth then. 

To Bombay a traveling circus came, they brought an
cloned mammoth and Nellie was her name
One dark night she slipped her iron chain
And off she ran to the Arctic Sea
And was never seen again
Until the satellite era

Makes more sense then i thought it would with some minor adaptations.

Sadly the second verse is a bit ruin these days.  ;)

Consequences / Re: COVID-19
« on: August 09, 2020, 05:26:47 PM »
Also see Reply #8216 for an answer to this question by BBR (just a heads up for those reading from newest post).

Policy and solutions / Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« on: August 08, 2020, 07:37:25 PM »
Thanks and yeah that helps.

The fifties tax rates were also much better and repealing Glass-Steagall was not a good idea. We also had electric cars in the 1900s.

The way we fight wars changed etc.

This is all history and maybe, just maybe the issue is about being honest about where we stand now. We have these people raking in billions while the world goes to hell. How does that work? Should we applaud them? No we should not because they are actually exploiting people all over.

Robo driving great but it is also an assault on public transport:,2075.msg277930.html#new

We have these big money sink companies looking for world monopolies. Who is paying into them and why?,2075.msg277930.html#new

post #105.

BTW: If you have a good video on that pitch it proper. Tell us the relevant quote and where they get to that by time stamp. People who prefer text are not going to watch it without i think. You can scroll past intro paragraphs but vids are just more annoying.

Policy and solutions / Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« on: August 08, 2020, 06:12:36 PM »
Is the clip offering any alternatives? And if so why not cite them.

Basically this thread is for discussion and none of us talk to YT videos (or so i hope).

The rest / Re: The off topic off topic thread
« on: August 08, 2020, 05:56:16 PM »
So skiing is going into the summer Olympics?

The politics / Re: Elections 2020 USA
« on: August 08, 2020, 05:52:53 PM »
So you have to be 35 to run for president. Why not add a rule you can not run again after 70?
And possibly limit the time you can be in senate or congress.

Science / Re: The Father Of Global Warming?
« on: August 08, 2020, 05:30:33 PM »
Broeckers take on the title:

So, for two different prizes that I won, I was introduced as "the father of global warming" because of this one lucky paper I wrote that was partially wrong, instead of being known for sixty years of science.   I once offered my students a $200 reward if they could find a previous reference to global warming in the scientific literature.  The reward was never claimed, but a postdoc found a reference in a 1958 Indiana newspaper account of two southern California scientists who were warning about industrialization causing climate change.  The scientists weren't named, but reading between the lines, they must have been Roger Revelle and Charles Keeling (both from the Scripps Institute of Oceanography).  Keeling started the CO2 readings at Mauna Loa that are always cited.   I think Keeling should be the "father of global warming."

Of course many more were important. Svente Arrhenius or maybe the always overlooked Högbom:

In 1896 Arrhenius completed a laborious numerical computation which suggested that cutting the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere by half could lower the temperature in Europe some 4-5°C (roughly 7-9°F) — that is, to an ice age level. But this idea could only answer the riddle of the ice ages if such large changes in atmospheric composition really were possible. For that question Arrhenius turned to a colleague, Arvid Högbom. It happened that Högbom had compiled estimates for how carbon dioxide cycles through natural geochemical processes, including emission from volcanoes, uptake by the oceans, and so forth. Along the way he had come up with a strange, almost incredible new idea.   

<=Simple models

It had occurred to Högbom to calculate the amounts of CO2 emitted by factories and other industrial sources. Surprisingly, he found that human activities were adding CO2 to the atmosphere at a rate roughly comparable to the natural geochemical processes that emitted or absorbed the gas. As another scientist would put it a decade later, we were "evaporating" our coal mines into the air. The added gas was not much compared with the volume of CO2 already in the atmosphere — the CO2 released from the burning of coal in the year 1896 would raise the level by scarcely a thousandth part. But the additions might matter if they continued long enough.

Also Revelle and the CO2 uptake in oceans:

Both links are from Spencer Whearts Discovery of Global Warming which is a great way to read up on all the earlier stuff.

All these discoveries build on eachother.

The rest / Re: Pareidolia
« on: August 07, 2020, 07:25:35 PM »
Greenland Sea today...that´s some kind of deer?
I was thinking goat or sheep with a human eye, but that completely depends on what kind of drugs you're on...  ;D

Without drugs...i have Total War Warhammer and it´s definitely a Beastman creature. One of the lower Gors. Not that sure since i haven´t played them since the first version.

Consequences / Re: Global Dimming - The aerosol masking effect
« on: August 07, 2020, 07:05:43 PM »
Yes so if you would be really boring you could just add it to things making AGW worse assuming our current plan is to eliminate them. The interesting thing is to figure out how much they matter.

We have seen many threads and mentions about maybe seeing the covid signal directly but this pretty much proves we don´t.

I am just going to wait for the shipping related stuff.

The rest / Re: Pareidolia
« on: August 07, 2020, 03:28:46 PM »
Greenland Sea today...that´s some kind of deer?

PS: That ghost hand is really good.  :)

The rest / Re: Astronomical news
« on: August 07, 2020, 03:27:43 PM »
A proof of concept:

Hubble just made a major breakthrough in the search for alien life

Hubble took advantage of a total lunar eclipse to do a bit of science that may one day be used to detect life on other worlds. As NASA reports in a new blog post and video, Hubble was able to use the Moon as a sort of “mirror” that reflected the light beaming through Earth’s atmosphere. By analyzing the wavelengths of light coming through our planet’s atmosphere and bouncing off the surface of the Moon, researchers were able to detect the presence of ozone in Earth’s atmosphere.

Consequences / Re: Global Dimming - The aerosol masking effect
« on: August 07, 2020, 02:56:53 PM »
Here an article explaining why we won´t see the effect:

They found that the drop off peaked in April, with CO2, nitrogen oxides and other emissions falling between 10-30% globally, mainly due to declines in surface transport.

But this new work shows that some of the declines in greenhouse gases actually cancelled each other out in terms of warming.

Nitrogen oxides from transport normally have a warming impact in the atmosphere.

While they went down by 30%, they were matched by a drop in sulphur dioxide, which mainly comes from the burning of coal.

Since we knew that there was a change in shipping fuels from this year there will be some scientists gathering data on that. All the effect would be more local and close to certain busy shipping lanes but that will at least tell us something.

Consequences / Re: COVID-19
« on: August 07, 2020, 02:47:01 PM »
Coronavirus: Asymptomatic cases 'carry same amount of virus'

People with symptomless Covid-19 can carry as much of the virus as those with symptoms, a South Korean study has suggested.

South Korea was able to identify and isolate asymptomatic cases through mass testing as early as the start of March.

There is mounting evidence these cases represent a considerable proportion of coronavirus infections.

But the researchers weren't able to say how much these people actually passed the virus on.

People with a positive coronavirus test were monitored in a community treatment centre, allowing scientists to look at how much of the virus was detectable in their nose and throat swabs.

They were given regular tests, and only released once they were negative.

Results of 1,886 tests suggest people with no symptoms at the time of the test, including those who never go on to develop symptoms, have the same amount of viral material in their nose and throat as people with symptoms.

The study also showed the virus could be detected in asymptomatic people for significant periods of time - although they appeared to clear it from their systems slightly faster than people with symptoms.

The median time (the number where half of cases were higher and half were lower) from being diagnosed to receiving a negative test was 17 days in asymptomatic patients and 19.5 days in symptomatic patients.

Because of the nature of the isolation centre, the study didn't include people with severe cases of the disease. They were also younger and healthier than average.


The amount of shedding time is why the lacklustre lets monitor people with temps only approach failed us so hard then again with the amount of asymptomatic cases it will be hard to control unless we reach herd immunity.

This was also a problem for our dutch guidelines for critical workers. They were only supposed to call in sick with fevers and such. If you work exclusivily in the Covid ward that is not a problem because everyone there (the patients) has covid anyway but the people who work with the elderly should have been in separate bubbles although working out how to do that is quite a puzzle.

The rest / Re: Astronomical news
« on: August 06, 2020, 04:50:23 PM »
Early Mars was covered in ice sheets, not flowing rivers, researchers say


A large number of the valley networks scarring Mars's surface were carved by water melting beneath glacial ice, not by free-flowing rivers as previously thought, according to new UBC research published today in Nature Geoscience. The findings effectively throw cold water on the dominant "warm and wet ancient Mars" hypothesis, which postulates that rivers, rainfall and oceans once existed on the red planet.

To reach this conclusion, lead author Anna Grau Galofre, former PhD student in the department of earth, ocean and atmospheric sciences, developed and used new techniques to examine thousands of Martian valleys. She and her co-authors also compared the Martian valleys to the subglacial channels in the Canadian Arctic Archipelago and uncovered striking similarities.

"For the last 40 years, since Mars's valleys were first discovered, the assumption was that rivers once flowed on Mars, eroding and originating all of these valleys," says Grau Galofre. "But there are hundreds of valleys on Mars, and they look very different from each other. If you look at Earth from a satellite you see a lot of valleys: some of them made by rivers, some made by glaciers, some made by other processes, and each type has a distinctive shape. Mars is similar, in that valleys look very different from each other, suggesting that many processes were at play to carve them."


In total, the researchers analyzed more than 10,000 Martian valleys, using a novel algorithm to infer their underlying erosion processes. "These results are the first evidence for extensive subglacial erosion driven by channelized meltwater drainage beneath an ancient ice sheet on Mars," says co-author Mark Jellinek, professor in UBC's department of earth, ocean and atmospheric sciences. "The findings demonstrate that only a fraction of valley networks match patterns typical of surface water erosion, which is in marked contrast to the conventional view. Using the geomorphology of Mars' surface to rigorously reconstruct the character and evolution of the planet in a statistically meaningful way is, frankly, revolutionary."


Science / Re: Where are we now in CO2e , which pathway are we on?
« on: August 06, 2020, 03:55:33 PM »
Losing the remaining Arctic sea ice and its ability to reflect incoming solar energy back to space would be equivalent to adding one trillion tons of CO2 to the atmosphere, on top of the 2.4 trillion tons emitted since the Industrial Age, according to current and former researchers from Scripps Institution of Oceanography at the University of California San Diego.

At current rates, this roughly equates to 25 years of global CO2 emissions.

So this exactly the sort of thing we try to avoid. And the effect should build as we lose ice along the way.

Can we avert this at our current rate? With actual realized global reductions because that is how the planet counts? I doubt it.

False climate arguments should be called out on the spot (and usually someone does).

I still don´t think you need a dedicated thread because there is not a tsunami of conspiracies. So we had one person posting a link to an anti vaxxer site.

So if i would i have seen the link what would happen? Would i be magically converted to that crowd? No, just like sane counter arguments will not convince people who believe that anyway.

I would just make a mental note of the position of said user, possible read a bit of the article and then maybe comment if it´s worth it.

We are all adults. So while it is a pity to see that somebody beliefs something crazy it is still them posting their beliefs. If it is a one of post and no one debates it then it is just a statement.

I still have the impression that this is an attempt to solve a problem that does not exist since we do not have a problem with Conspiracy Myths, Charlatans, Quacks!

The forum / Re: Forum Decorum
« on: August 06, 2020, 01:42:45 PM »
You earned that!  :)

Policy and solutions / Re: Robots and AI: Our Immortality or Extinction
« on: August 05, 2020, 09:30:43 PM »
So to summarize most humans are too stupid for the Turing test?

Policy and solutions / Re: Energy Efficiency: The “First Fuel”
« on: August 05, 2020, 03:42:11 PM »
Don't demolish old buildings, urge architects


In the past there was debate about whether it was better for the climate to demolish an old energy-hungry building and build a well-insulated replacement.

But this is now widely considered a serious mistake because of the amount of carbon emitted during the construction of the new building.

The Royal Institute of Chartered Surveyors (RICS) estimates that 35% of the lifecycle carbon from a typical office development is emitted before the building is even opened. It says the figure for residential premises is 51%.

These calculations suggest it will be decades before some new buildings pay back their carbon debt by saving more emissions than they created - and these are decades when carbon must be sharply reduced.


It wants the government to change the VAT rules which can make it cheaper to rebuild than to refurbish a standing building.

Architects' Journal managing editor Will Hurst said: “This staggering fact has only been properly grasped in the construction industry relatively recently. We’ve got to stop mindlessly pulling buildings down.”

He said VAT on refurbishment, repair and maintenance should be cut from 20% to zero to match the typical rate for new-build.

He continued: “It’s crazy that the government actually incentivises practices that create more carbon emissions. Also, if you avoid demolition you make carbon savings right now, which we really need.

Science / Re: Where are we now in CO2e , which pathway are we on?
« on: August 05, 2020, 03:33:51 PM »
See the picture attached to this post to see that current emissions are much more close to 8.5:

The attached image is just a reminder that thru 2019 our CO2 emissions were still closely tracking the RCP 8.5 emissions scenario.

or as they said: Long dismissed as alarmist or misleading, the paper argues that is actually the closest approximation of both historical emissions and anticipated outcomes of current global climate policies, tracking within 1% of actual emissions.


The article also notes that RCP 8.5 would not be significantly impacted by the COVID-19 pandemic, adding that "we note that the usefulness of RCP 8.5 is not changed due to the ongoing COVID-19 pandemic. Assuming pandemic restrictions remain in place until the end of 2020 would entail a reduction in emissions of -4.7 Gt CO2. This represents less than 1% of total cumulative CO2 emissions since 2005 for all RCPs and observations."

Eyeballing the graph i am not sure you can claim that it's also missing the point that emissions up through the 2020s are very close in all scenarios.

This is more evidence that we are not doing enough.

Of course the energy transition will knock a big fat part of the tail of 8.5 but that does not mean we are actually in the clear.

It would of course really help if we actually defined safe limits , or our actual goals for limiting the damage by AGW.

The rest / Re: Port of Beirut Explosion
« on: August 05, 2020, 02:59:11 PM »
See that picture in #12. Not exactly safe storage.

Should have been resolved long ago but no one cared enough.

Even with very clear examples it starts with a poster.
So then you call out said poster.

Zilching links to say to a Hearland Institute inspired article is fine but then note it in some comment (as a public warning).

As for some other much do they actually come up? Anti-vax stuff not that much although now it has in relation to covid apparently.

Occasionally someone will post something odd and people will comment on that or if we are lucky someone else posts some interesting article below that and the whole following discussion is on topic.

If someone posts something weird once no big deal (esp if everyone ignores it) but if it is actively pushed it usually disrupts threads and thus warrants attention for that. Then again that has not really been an issue.

And for another study on how murky it gets see the russia thread or russiagate thread in politics.

So i don´t think there is that much Conspiracy Myths, Charlatans, Quacks content anyway (how you score politics is ofc a question of taste or allegiance).


Consequences / Re: Global Dimming - The aerosol masking effect
« on: August 05, 2020, 01:18:09 PM »
Or the anomaly in the graph is the result of ongoing changes like deteriorating land snow cover around there etc.

Or you just accept that people are different.

This was always the case. People are responsible for what they post. You can read it and then weigh it. Most of the things oren lists are limited to specific posters if mentioned at all.

A lot is more nuanced as Neven pointed out.

We are adults so we can read what other adults write and if so inclined we can then scorn them with well written replies.  :)

Alternatively there is the report button ofc.

Policy and solutions / Re: Oil and Gas Issues
« on: August 04, 2020, 08:57:06 AM »
BP Spends ‘Low Carbon’ Money on Finding and Using Fossil Fuels

gThe oil giant BP has used money from a “low carbon transition” fund to buy shares in companies developing new ways to find and use fossil fuels, Unearthed can reveal.

Companies using AI to help drill for oil, a private jet app developer and a firm generating carbon emissions from fossil fuels to create animal and fish feed are among those to have received substantial investment, alongside investments in clean energy.


Bronwen Tucker, research analyst at Oil Change International, told Unearthed:

“Oil majors have had 30 years to align their business plans with a liveable climate. Instead of doing so, they’re using paper-thin claims of climate action that don’t stand up to scrutiny – this is just the newest in a long line of examples.

“It is however a new level of audacity for Big Oil to team up with Big Data to find more oil and gas to extract, only to turn around and try to call it a climate investment.”


Policy and solutions / Re: Tesla glory/failure
« on: August 04, 2020, 08:39:41 AM »
I moved that to #105 in the Public transport thread because none of the articles addressed Tesla.,2075.msg277930.html#new

Consequences / Re: Climate change, the ocean, agriculture, and FOOD
« on: August 03, 2020, 07:58:09 PM »
‘Super-Kelp’ Is Making CO2 Vanish into the Ocean

Tasmania’s towering seaweed forests are amazing climate change fighters. Now scientists are stepping in to make them even stronger.

Sixty years ago, Tasmania’s coastline was cushioned by a velvety forest of kelp so dense it would ensnare local fishers as they headed out in their boats. “We speak especially to the older generation of fishers, and they say, ‘When I was your age, this bay was so thick with kelp, we actually had to cut a channel though it,’” says Cayne Layton, a postdoctoral research fellow at the Institute for Marine and Antarctic Studies at the University of Tasmania. “Now, those bays, which are probably at the scale of 10 or 20 football fields, are completely empty of kelp. There’s not a single plant left.”

Since the 1960s, Tasmania’s once expansive kelp forests have declined by 90 percent or more. The primary culprit is climate change. These giant algae need to be bathed in cool, nutrient-rich currents in order to thrive, yet regional warming in recent decades has extended the waters of the warmer East Australian Current into Tasmanian seas to devastating effect, wiping out kelp forests one by one. Warming waters have also boosted populations of predatory urchins, which gnaw on kelp roots and compound the loss.

Tasmania isn’t the only site of destruction. Globally, kelp grow in forests along the coastlines of every continent except Antarctica; most of these are threatened by climate change, coastal development, pollution, fishing and invasive predators. All of this matters because these ecosystems provide huge benefits: They cushion coastlines against the effect of storm surges and sea level rise; they cleanse water by absorbing excess nutrients; and they also slurp up carbon dioxide, which can help drive down ocean acidity and engineer a healthy environment for surrounding marine life. These forests — which in the case of the giant kelp species that grows in Tasmania, can reach heights of 130 feet — also provide habitat for hundreds of marine species.


lots more on:

The headline is a bit deceptive since all kelp losses they report have probably made less CO2 go into the ocean.

Consequences / Re: Climate change, the ocean, agriculture, and FOOD
« on: August 03, 2020, 07:42:33 PM »
Some Oysters Contain Plastics, Pathogens, Kerosene, Paint, And Baby Formula, Study Finds

Imported oysters, the slurped seafood of choice for fancy people and old sea dogs, may often be riddled with a cocktail of contaminants, according to a new study.

Ecologists at the University of California, Irvine (UCI) found that oysters in Myanmar contain a broad range of contaminants, including infectious pathogens, plastics, kerosene, paint, and milk supplement powders. On a particularly grim note, the presence of some of these pollutants suggests that human poop and raw sewage is making its way back into the food chain.


The study looked at oysters found in nine coral reefs located roughly 64 kilometers (40 miles) from the small coastal city of Myeik in Myanmar. Within the samples, they found 87 species of bacteria, over half of which are considered a threat to human health. They also discovered the presence of at least 78 different types of contaminant materials.

“While 48 percent of the microparticles were microplastics – a finding representative across numerous ocean ecosystems – many other particles were not plastic and originated from a variety of human-derived materials that are constituents of fuels, paints, and cosmetics,” said senior author Joleah Lamb, assistant professor of ecology & evolutionary biology at UCI. “We were particularly surprised to find three different brands of milk powder formula, which comprised 14 percent of the microdebris contaminants.”


Policy and solutions / Re: But, but, but Germany ....
« on: August 03, 2020, 06:58:47 PM »
As this subforum is for AGW those last two articles should probably be reposted below.

Consequences / Re: The Holocene Extinction
« on: August 03, 2020, 10:26:28 AM »
Sharks almost gone from many reefs

A massive global study of the world's reefs has found sharks are 'functionally extinct' on nearly one in five of the reefs surveyed.

Professor Colin Simpfendorfer from James Cook University in Australia was one of the scientists who took part in the study, published today in Nature by the Global FinPrint organisation. He said of the 371 reefs surveyed in 58 countries, sharks were rarely seen on close to 20 percent of those reefs.

"This doesn't mean there are never any sharks on these reefs, but what it does mean is that they are 'functionally extinct' -- they are not playing their normal role in the ecosystem," said Professor Simpfendorfer.

He said almost no sharks were detected on any of the 69 reefs of six nations: the Dominican Republic, the French West Indies, Kenya, Vietnam, the Windward Dutch Antilles and Qatar.

"In these countries, only three sharks were observed during more than 800 survey hours," said Professor Simpfendorfer.


"We found that robust shark populations can exist alongside people when those people have the will, the means, and a plan to take conservation action," said Dr Chapman.

Professor Simpfendorfer said it was encouraging that Australia was among the best nations at protecting shark populations and ensuring they played their proper role in the environment.

"We're up there along with such nations as the Federated States of Micronesia, French Polynesia and the US. These nations reflect key attributes that were found to be associated with higher populations of sharks: being generally well-governed, and either banning all shark fishing or having strong, science-based management limiting how many sharks can be caught," he said.

Policy and solutions / Re: Nuclear Power
« on: August 03, 2020, 10:22:27 AM »
The nuclear waste buried far beneath the earth will be toxic for thousands of years. How do you build a warning now that can be understood in the far future?

Science / Re: Satellite News
« on: August 02, 2020, 09:39:54 PM »
European Sentinel satellites to map global CO2 emissions

German manufacturer OHB-System has signed a €445m (£400m) contract to begin construction of a satellite network to monitor carbon dioxide.

The CO2M constellation will consist in the first instance of two spacecraft, but there is an option for a third.

The platforms will track the greenhouse gas across the globe, helping nations assess the scale of their emissions.

Under the Paris climate accord, countries must compile CO2 inventories. CO2M will provide supporting data.

The aim is to launch the OHB spacecraft in 2025 so they can inform the international stocktake that will report in 2028.


The requirement is that CO2M track carbon dioxide in the atmosphere at a resolution of 2km by 2km across a minimum swath of 250km.

The satellites will carry a CO2 instrument, obviously, but a range of secondary sensors also to help with the signal's retrieval and to differentiate the human-produced sources of the gas from those emitted by natural processes.

Franco-Italian manufacturer Thales Alenia Space has been engaged as a key sub-contractor. Its French division will deliver a combined carbon dioxide and nitrogen dioxide spectrometer that operates in near- and shortwave-infrared bands.

TAS's UK arm will build a multi-angle polarimeter; and the Belgian company OIP Sensors will make a cloud imager.


The leaders of the EU's 27 member states recently agreed a downgrading of the proposed Copernicus budget in the next financial period (2021-2027) from €5.8bn to €4.8bn.

If this budget envelope is implemented, it will impact the roll-out of the expansion Sentinels.

Indeed, the fact that OHB is only being asked to build two spacecraft for the moment - and not all three - is a reflection of the current financial realities.


We should have done that 10 year sooner at least.

The rest / Re: Pareidolia
« on: August 02, 2020, 09:29:30 PM »
I guess i spent too much time too close to dutch girls to see this.  :)

I see the demon right away and the ammonite too.

The rest / Re: The off topic off topic thread
« on: August 02, 2020, 09:24:49 PM »
If there is ever a place to post anything (barring the illegal) it should be here on the OTOT thread.

What was the actual conspiracy site? Was the content so bad we needed to be protected? The paper is pretty interesting but i have no idea how any conspiracy site would spin that and i am sort of curious. I think i would survive reading some conspiracy take on it and if there was some clear BS in it i would comment on that but now i can´t.

This annoys me more then whatever the conspiracy site can come up with.

People are responsible for what they post. I think it is ok to add reminders that the quoted site is 100% Koch funded if that is the case or whatever applies but i prefer to make my own judgements.

The whole system is useless. It´s just more window dressing. Capitalism is going to kill us but we are so used to it we can´t see an alternative. It´s still working and it is the best we ever had but maybe score a whole lot of points which are interesting to us humans to survive and look at the perimeters.

So yes AGW but also persistent general chemical pollution, the amount of plastics we add, the drain we put on soils an also aquifers (some of whom disappear due to AGW etc). All these things could with fixing. That also goes for all kind of social choices we apparently made.

Then again that discussion should go here:,1102.0.html

Consequences / Re: Wildfires
« on: August 02, 2020, 08:06:47 PM »
Amazon region: Brazil records big increase in fires

Official figures from Brazil have shown a big increase in the number of fires in the Amazon region in July compared with the same month last year.

Satellite images compiled by Brazil's National Space Agency revealed there were 6,803 - a rise of 28%.


The latest figures raise concerns about a repeat of the huge wildfires that shocked the world in August and September last year.

"It's a terrible sign," Ane Alencar, science director at Brazil's Amazon Environmental Research Institute, was quoted as saying by Reuters news agency.

"We can expect that August will already be a difficult month and September will be worse yet."


Consequences / Re: COVID-19
« on: August 02, 2020, 07:51:38 PM »
Welcome Jeju!

As to the PPS. On active topics people type there things while you type yours. Basically when i get the warning i just check the new posts to see if it is the same i was about to post and if it is not you just hit post.

With a post like this with specific local info that change is zero so you could just hit post anyway.

PS: Forgot to mention that it is not related to your post being in moderation (that happens to the first few posts)

Methane from north seas boreholes

New study confirms extensive gas leaks in the North Sea

"The positions of the boreholes and the location and extent of the gas pockets indicate that this area of the North Sea alone has the potential to emit 900 to 3700 tonnes of methane every year. 'However, more than 15,000 boreholes have been drilled in the entire North Sea,'

"In the North Sea, about half of the boreholes are at such shallow water depths that part of the emitted methane can escape into the atmosphere."

Arctic sea ice / Re: "Smart" and "Stupid" Questions - Feel Free To Ask
« on: August 02, 2020, 07:07:29 PM »
Lookup some general physics on how global warming effects the world. There is a climate gradient across the globe. Russia and Canada are in or near it.

Local temps of 2C above pre-industrial are also not the same as warming twice as fast.

Consequences / Re: COVID-19
« on: August 01, 2020, 08:18:21 PM »
A dutch doctor used it early on. Used in low doses similar to those used fighting malaria combined with Vit D and something else and it kept all his patients safe. Then the local paper wrote about it. Miracle doctor. Then the inspection came and told him that it was not in the rule book to use it and the consequences could be so bad for him.

This was at a time there were no actual treatments that helped much so i always wondered why our inspection actually stopped a doctor doing doctor things aka curing people with whatever he had on hand. There were zero people that needed hospitalization.

The sad truth is that there is plenty of bias with career people being aware that big pharma provides the big money so most of those systems are not doing what you think they are doing.

Arctic sea ice / Re: The 2020 melting season
« on: August 01, 2020, 07:40:13 PM »
Someone complains they are not actually attached?

The rest / Re: Pareidolia
« on: August 01, 2020, 07:34:25 PM »
LOL why German? If India is the skirt then were are the legs?

Greenland and Arctic Circle / Re: What's new in Greenland?
« on: August 01, 2020, 07:13:38 PM »
Let me quote the most relevant line from the abstract:

We find that warming rates similar to or higher than modern trends have only occurred during past abrupt glacial episodes.

So this basically means we have activated the Greenland ice sheet which means we can add this to the list of points of danger to avoid which we did not avoid because GPD is important too.
See,2994.100.html last bit of #129.

The rest / Re: Pareidolia
« on: August 01, 2020, 06:43:58 PM »
Why is it a dutch girl? Also i am voting yes.  ;)

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