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Messages - kassy

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Consequences / Re: Global Surface Air Temperatures
« on: Today at 04:57:41 PM »
As regards what he says about temperature trends over parts of the SH and relation to CO2, it's of course true. CO2 is increasing, so forcing is increasing, but still temperatures are going down. Thus, something else than CO2 is at play in those places.

So now you claim that you never heard about long term climate variability and things like ENSO?

The politics / Re: The Collapse Of America
« on: January 20, 2021, 09:53:52 PM »
So the point of this is chatting about something you like chatting about.
The subject is in lots of other threads so this is redundant.

So you think everything is going to be ok and you are adding some articles that you think prove that but as pointed out before there is more then just the energy mix that we need to work out before we get to net zero.

Remember this is AGWIG/Science so instead of singular examples post some science on when we are going to go net zero or just post your best bet.

Apart from the graph axis labelling, I am somewhat puzzled by post 63. The RCP value is the radiative forcing of all greenhouse gases at the year 2100. That value is already at 3.2W/m2 and the progression seems to be tracking rcp 6.0 maybe higher. RCP 2.6 seems to be a forlorn hope.

Feel free to disagree.

That is very much the point.

OK we are not going to hit 8.5 but we are also missing 2.6. To save the Arctic ice we should have hit that.

You can´t just say ´we are saved´ because we do not hit the worst possible scenario we modelled. Now we have to figure out what happens at 6.0.

No, that is not the case with Arctic sea ice. We will lose the summer ice, but not even close to year-round.  Also, summer sea ice can come back if temperatures cool. So not being on an RCP8.5 track is very relevant.

No it is not because we will lose it regardless. It will take decades to get to zero so we have decades of incoming heating and an icepack that is in a really bad state.

The ice provides it´s own isolation layer of cold water but if bigger areas are ice free for a long time that gets diluted down.

Also ice grows from ice so growing it back is not that easy.

When do you expect temperatures to cool anyway? 

Policy and solutions / Re: Ships and boats
« on: January 20, 2021, 08:01:26 PM »
Calls Grow For Full Investigation Into BP-Linked Fuel Causing Ship Incidents Around World

Leading environmental and marine worker groups are calling for a full and urgent investigation into a growing ship fuel scandal that is affecting 70% of major ocean-bound ships.

This follows an article in Forbes on December 21, that revealed that a toxic ‘Frankenstein Fuel’ was the reason for the large cover up surrounding the Mauritius oil spill last year. This experimental new type of ship fuel, called VLSFO, was powering the giant Japanese Bulk Carrier, the Wakashio, and it has since transpired that this fuel was supplied by BP. Not only was this fuel faulty, but it was discovered last year to release higher greenhouse gas emissions, not lower.

BP did not admit it was the source of the fuel until last week, and has refused to supply a sample of the fuel for independent analysis despite being formally requested to by authorities in August.

The ship fuel scandal came to light following the oil spill on Mauritius in the summer, and is now seen as a leading root cause of the incident. The low-sulfur VLSFO ship fuel had been rushed into global shipping in January 2020 by the UN shipping regulator - the International Maritime Organization (IMO) - as a way to avoid criticism for the industry seeking to escape from the Paris Climate Agreement. Greenpeace has been calling for justice and a full investigation into the use of VLSFO on ships, as other ocean groups like Ocean Rebellion have called for BP to come clean with what was in its oil that was spilled along the coral reefs of Mauritius.

Major environmental and labor organizations, such as the International Transport Workers Federation (ITF), environmental groups such as the European Federation for Transport and Environment, the Clean Arctic Alliance, Ocean Conservancy, Pacific Environment have all claimed that the dangers and risks of low sulfur fuel were well known but that their concerns were ignored by the shipping industry, the oil industry and the international regulator, the UN’s International Maritime Organization (IMO).

The world’s largest ship engine manufacturers such as Wärtsilä Marine Power, MAN Energy Solutions and even Chevron Lubricants that provide essential lubricants for ship engines have been warning that the way these new low-sulfur fuels were handled in ships needed to meet ship manufacturer safety standards, but often this was not being done and poorly monitored. It meant that ship crews were essentially being asked to perform giant chemistry experiments in the middle of the ocean, to try and get the fuel to work, causing significant risk to themselves and the environment. At least 3600 ships could be at risk at any one moment, with industry analysts at last October CMA Shipping Conference saying these numbers are likely to be much higher.

Interviews with Government regulators around the world also reveals that no major Government is regularly sampling, testing or monitoring the VLSFO ship fuel now in use by 70% of ships around the world. This means the oil and shipping industry has been allowed to collude to put out experimental fuels that put the ocean, coastal communities and seafarers’ lives at risk, without any external oversight or safeguards, as the island of Mauritius discovered last August.

This ship fuel is now suspected for a series of ship engine failures around the world, as industry reports reveal ship engine incidents have significantly increased since the introduction of VLSFO last year at the insistence of the Secretary General of the UN’s IMO, Kitack Lim.


The ITF went on to say they were concerned about the health impact of chemicals being introduced onto ships without adequate safety measures for crews. “What we are most concerned about are the chemicals that are substituted or should be added to new blended fuels to replace the lubricating effect of sulfur. Many of these chemicals are in fact life-threatening and pose serious risks for crews that come in contact with or breathe them in. We also know that these kind of fuels also require higher pressures and temperatures, which pose an additional risk to seafarers’ safety.”


The European Federation for Transport and Environment is one of the most influential transportation and environment bodies working at the level of the EU.

Lucy Gilliam who works in aviation and shipping for Environment and Transport, expressed concerns about how difficult VLSFO fuels would be to clean up in the event of an oil spill. She explained there were several viable alternatives to achieve less polluting ship fuels, and repeated calls that the global shipping needed to be more transparent about what was in the new fuel blends being put into ships around the world.

“We are concerned about LSHFO [low-sulfur ship fuels] because these fuels appear similar to HFO [Heavy Fuel Oil] when spilled as we have seen with the Wakashio spill. The Wakashio disaster is a disaster because of the type of oil spilled. Clearly LSHFO is extremely difficult to clean up and toxic to environment just like HFO. It also appears that some LSHFO are similar or worse in terms of Black Carbon Emissions (a potent climate forcing particulate) when combusted.


The politics / Re: The Collapse Of America
« on: January 20, 2021, 07:52:10 PM »
1 That posting style does not really help.
2 There is zero content relating to the subject of the thread.
3 We already have threads about the USA discussing that.

So i bet it was deleted because it was redundant and this one will not fare much better.

How relevant are they?

For the overall energy mix the question is how fast we can improve it. Then we also have to look at other sources which are harder to get rid of. Even if we *just* fixed the energy mix that would not mean we are near carbon zero overall.

Then the scenarios.

In the long term we will fall short of RCP8.5 but RCP 2.6 is also very dead.

Now the problem is that not hitting RCP 8.5 does not safe us in any way. Remember that it is basically a set of parameters used for research. So if we do not hit 8.5 then we still have to figure out were we land...RCP 4.5, 6.0? And then we will have to figure out how bad that is.

Meanwhile we will lose the Arctic Sea ice which is basically the big #1 criterium for ´dangerous climate change´ regardless of which scenario we are on. Doesn´t that sort of make ´hey we are not going 8.5´ less relevant?

It was never the border between dangerous change and us being safe just a tool.

So, the idea that countries are going to continue BAU until 2050 is utterly ridiculous and false.

That link does not support that claim at all.

Also we are not nearly doing enough and we need to do way more then stay away from BAU.

Consequences / Re: COVID-19
« on: January 19, 2021, 03:01:12 PM »
They agreed to do that a while ago so that is not surprising.

Consequences / Re: Forests: An Endangered Resource
« on: January 19, 2021, 02:24:41 PM »
Indian ´reforestation´.

Tree planting pushes out pastoralists in the Himalayas

Poorly planned tree planting programmes in Himachal Pradesh have squeezed pastoralists and put greater pressure on fragile ecosystems

The paper points out that between 1950 and 2005, India’s government reported afforestation of an area equivalent to 10% of the country’s land area, or just less than half of its total forest cover. Data from the Himachal Pradesh Forest Department indicate a similarly widespread distribution of plantations along the migratory routes of the Gaddis.

What is more, India aims to increase forest cover from the current 21% to 33% under its UN climate commitments, without visible thought given to the impacts on rural livelihoods such as pastoralism.

Responding to this, Rajesh Sharma of the Himachal Pradesh forest department said, “In2015 India pledged in the Paris Agreement to create an additional carbon sink of 2.5 to 3 billion tonnes by increasing its tree cover through afforestation activities on 45 lakh [4.5 million] hectares across the country by 2030. The target was distributed to all the states and union territories as per their geographical area and forest cover. Himachal Pradesh is meeting its target of afforestation on 10,000 hectares land every year successfully.”


The effect on Gaddis

Gaddis are an agro-pastoral community, listed as a scheduled tribe by the Government of India, who have herded their sheep and goats around the Dhauladhar range for centuries.

“We found that decades of [growing] plantations have decreased the availability of fodder, contributed to increased incidence of invasive species, disrupted migratory routes and changed access to land,” researchers wrote in the paper.

Gaddis move seasonally to find fodder in the lower and middle altitude of Kangra during the winter and the higher altitudes of Kangra, Chamba, and Lahaul and Spiti valleys in the summer.

As well as forests, Gaddis use high-altitude commons, village commons and private land owned by farmers. The forest department and other government officials issue permits for using high-altitude commons. The permission to graze on village commons is obtained from local government bodies, while access to private lands relies on personal relations with individual farmers.

Livelihood shocks
Plantations have made Gaddi livelihoods more vulnerable because the land is enclosed and their access routes blocked.  The planting of tree species which animals cannot eat means there is less fodder available. New plantations also provide habitats for invasive shrubs, which decrease livestock health and growth.

Viay Ramprasad, senior fellow at the Centre for Ecology, Development and Research at Dehradun and co-author of the report, said, “Plantations change species composition for grazing and affect fodder availability; plantation closures force changes in migratory routes and also alter access dimensions to pasture lands.”

Ratna Devi from Thala village in Kangra described how last year 180 of the 250 goats and sheep of her flock became ill from grazing on an unknown plant in their winter pasture and died at once. She felt badly shaken and helpless. Despite this shock, her family continued herding and invested again in goats and sheep.

Gaddis earn their living by selling milk, meat, and wool. But now they sell young livestock as well.

Musafir Ram, another Gaddi from the area, said, “Young [animals] are more susceptible to harm from ‘outside’ plants so many [people] have resorted to selling almost all young goats and sheep prior to their winter migration.”

The wrong trees

Researchers found that most of the varieties of trees planted by the forest department in the last 40 years have been unpalatable to livestock. Until the 1990s, government plantations replaced broad-leaved tree species (such as Ban oak or Acacia catechu) and pastures with pine species, which produce commercially viable resin and timer but are unpalatable to animals. More recently there has been a greater emphasis on native broad-leaved species, but shrubs, herbs and native meadows have been ignored.

Govind Jeet, a Gaddi, agreed with one observation in the research paper, “We have noticed that palatable species like grasses such as garna and basoti and plants such as peepal and kangu are now almost absent in winter pastures.”

and much more on:

The paper:

Policy and solutions / Re: Tesla glory/failure
« on: January 19, 2021, 01:44:39 PM »
Why has Tesla lowered the price of their cars numerous times if the market is supply constrained?

Because they can?
Because when the average industry profit margin is 5 to 10%, and Tesla’s profit margin is 30 to 40%, customers who learn that might be a tiny bit miffed?
That was also the one i was going for.

Also they learnt more about making cars and making them cheaper. A while ago a video was posted of some US vehicle tech researchers who took apart a Tesla. That one still had many improvements that could be made , many of which have been made by now. Things like casting multiple parts as one part which shortens assembly and thus also reduces cost etc. 

The rest / Re: Consequences of using plastics
« on: January 18, 2021, 03:12:45 PM »
China’s plastic import ban increases prospects of environmental impact mitigation of plastic waste trade flow worldwide

Since the late 1990s, the trend of plastic waste shipment from developed to developing countries has been increasing. In 2017, China announced an unprecedented ban on its import of most plastic waste, resulting in a sharp decline in global plastic waste trade flow and changes in the treatment structure of countries, whose impacts on global environmental sustainability are enormous but yet unexamined. Here, through the life cycle assessment (LCA) method, we quantified the environmental impacts of changes in the flow patterns and treatment methods of 6 types of plastic waste in 18 countries subsequent to the ban. In the short term, the ban significantly improved four midpoint indicators of environmental impact, albeit contributed to global warming. An annual saving of about 2.35 billion euros of eco-cost was realized, which is equivalent to 56% of plastic waste global trade value in 2017. To achieve global environmental sustainability in the long run, countries should gradually realize the transition from export to domestic management, and from landfill to recycling, which would realize eco-costs savings of about 1.54–3.20 billion euros.

Consequences / Re: COVID-19
« on: January 18, 2021, 02:45:39 PM »
But more words is more power. Mass media , group think etc.
Anyway thanks for the clarification.

Consequences / Re: COVID-19
« on: January 17, 2021, 05:22:34 PM »
Those of you that guided places like the US and Brazil into letting hundreds of thousands of their people die should be ashamed. Instead, you are pretending you were right?

I hope that ´guided´ is some translation oddity otherwise you should see a shrink. A small website does not influence those countries plus remember who the presidents are/were? 

Policy and solutions / Re: Tesla glory/failure
« on: January 17, 2021, 05:16:49 PM »
Please do.  :)

BTW i deleted the same question from the general EV thread because it is Tesla specific.
I can think of some reasons but others can come up with more.

Consequences / Re: COVID-19
« on: January 17, 2021, 05:05:44 PM »
I wouldn't say that it is trolling, and Pfizer is not the only one that should be ashamed.

Normal discussion should be possible. There is an issue with the vaccine and it is important to share the information.

Trolling is for me providing false information in order to achieve an objective.

Pfizer is not the only ones that should be ashamed, but also the people who organize vaccination without extended testing. If I'm right, Vaccines had only been tested on healthy people under 55, so it is not a surprise that it can create problems for people that are almost at the end of their life, but the issue is that you need so many death before that the problem is identified.

No need to be ashamed...we all wanted a vaccine so now we have one. And we are vaccinating the elderly first to relief the pressure on the health care system.

Plus you can´t leave people out. Quite a lot of the Norway cases were in the really frail old. These are mixed in with the slightly less frail ones in the same care homes. No all deaths close in time actually have a causal relation with the vaccine.

The rest / Re: Good music
« on: January 15, 2021, 11:03:57 PM »
Modern Witch -Cinema

Vague memories of the noughties... lots of technically too small places. The evaporating sweat dripping of the walls.

Arctic sea ice / Re: Freeform season chatter and light commentary
« on: January 15, 2021, 06:31:08 PM »
Long time since i have seen that (they stole the potion?). It is rather visually accurate.  :)

Policy and solutions / Re: Electric cars
« on: January 14, 2021, 10:23:51 PM »
And don´t we have another thread for that?

The politics / Re: The Trump Presidency
« on: January 14, 2021, 10:21:52 PM »
But no one in the GF protests stormed the capitol.

The rest / Re: Astronomical news
« on: January 14, 2021, 10:13:00 PM »
That will complicated digging the grave.  ;)

Per ASIF's recent post,
•   2020 was 0.6°C warmer than the standard 1981-2010 reference period and around 1.25°C above the 1850-1900 pre-industrial period"
So, we went from first reaching about 1.0° above to having a second 1.25° above in 6 years (not yet averaging 1.25° above, yet).  I'm not saying we'll get to 1.5°  in 6 more years, but I wouldn't bet against getting there by the end of 2030 and staying there by 2035.  Electric vehicle adoption and coal-fired electricity generation shut downs will certainly put a dent in the increases.  Will it approach being enough? I doubt it.  All car sales would have to be EVs after 2025 to do their part ...

I added the bolding.
So we have about 0,25C margin.

The ASI Vol trend is heading for 0 sometime in the 2020ies to 2030ies, see (start at last posts) :,2348.msg298252.html#new

So this is the trend at about 1,0 to 1,25C. So we do not need to hit 1,5C overall to lose it.
Also it is not an either or thing. Every year sees more open water adding heat into the system.

That Polarstern north pole picture was so alarming. It was all shattered while a couple of years ago people still tried to walk and ski to there...

So we will see a part of the ASI loss temperature effect early (because we will lose part of the ice cover first) so that will gradually add  up to 1,9C. (see #20 above) but it will start doing so earlier along the way. , it does not need 1,5C. This means we will hit that any way.

The other question is when we think we could be carbon negative...

Things like EPA and the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service should be walled off from political appointees.

Consequences / Re: Climate change, the ocean, agriculture, and FOOD
« on: January 13, 2021, 09:58:43 PM »
And that is the sort of thing we want to avoid but we have very little time to stop this. Book keeping won´t cut it.

The politics / Re: The Trump Presidency
« on: January 13, 2021, 06:45:47 PM »
Some of Trump's most conservative defenders in Congress have begun calling for the resignation of Wyoming Republican Congresswoman Liz Cheney after she said yesterday that she would vote to impeach Trump.

Cheney, the third highest ranking Republican in the chamber and the chairwoman of the House Republican Conference, slammed Trump in a statement yesterday, saying: "There has never been a greater betrayal by a President of the United States of his office and his oath to the Constitution."

Ohio Congressman Jim Jordan, who Trump awarded a Medal of Freedom to on Monday for defending him during the last impeachment, was among those calling for her to go.

“We ought to have a second vote,” he told reporters. "The conference ought to vote on that."

Congressman Matt Rosendale of Montana said that Cheney did not notify the body of her decision to impeach, and "failed to abide by the spirit of the rules of the Republican Conference, and ignored the preferences of Republican voters".

"She is weakening our conference at a key moment for personal political gain and is unfit to lead. She must step down as Conference Chair.”

from bbc live feed:

So Jim doesn´t know he won´t get another medal and Rosendale won´t get one at all. Oh well.

The forum / Re: Forum Decorum
« on: January 13, 2021, 06:23:02 PM »
I would really avoid entering the politics threads altoghether.

Why would europeans use being a ´bernie guy´as a criterium? You should probably follow your own advice since you are looking through a very political lense.

Science / Re: Ocean temperatures
« on: January 13, 2021, 06:08:51 PM »
Upper Ocean Temperatures Hit Record High in 2020


The most recent data indicate that the OHC in the upper 2000 m layer of the world’s oceans has increased with a mean rate of 5.7 ± 1.0 ZJ yr−1 for the 1958−2020 period (IAP/CAS) (Fig. 1). There is a more rapid increase in OHC that began ~1980s and has continued unabated since then (Fig. 1). Since 1986, the average annual increase is 9.1 ± 0.3 ZJ yr−1 (1986 to
2020), almost eight times larger than the linear rate from 1958~1985 (1.2 ± 0.6 ZJ yr−1). Further, the uncertainty has decreased as improved instruments (e.g., Argo) and analysis methods have become available (Cheng et al., 2017; Argo,
2020) (Fig. 1). Moreover, each decade has been warmer than its preceding decade.
The 2020 OHC value is higher than the last year’s value, by 20 ± 8.3 ZJ using the IAP/CAS data, and by 1 ± 3.5 ZJ
using NOAA/NCEI. Both are the highest on record (Table 1). Differences between the OHC analyses reflect the uncertainties in the calculation due to method and data coverage. OHC values herein are preliminary and will be augmented by ocean
profile data which are not immediately available at the end of the year (but added later), and by calibration and quality control processes which also occur on longer time scales. Further quantification of the uncertainties in OHC will help to better
specify the confidence in OHC assessment.


The forum / Re: Forum Decorum
« on: January 13, 2021, 05:58:40 PM »
I suggest just avoiding wild ass guesses and looking up reasonable ones for whatever it is about.

Also the liquid form:

Volgens de wetenschappers namen oceanen in 2020 fors meer warmte op dan in 2019. De onderzoekers spreken van 20 zettajoule,


Omdat oceanen vertraagd reageren op het broeikaseffect, wordt verwacht dat de opwarming van het water in ieder geval nog enkele decennia aanhoudt. Cheng waarschuwt dat "samenlevingen zich daarom moeten aanpassen aan de onvermijdelijke gevolgen van de onverminderde opwarming".

2020 ocean heat uptake is a new record with 20 ZJ. We also have at least some decennia of warming water ahead.

Upper Ocean Temperatures Hit Record High in 2020 (OS) :

And linked in there, possibly interesting but haven´t read it yet.

Maybe it is more interesting to figure out when we go net negative or at which rate we approach that?

After all that decides what damages we will incur.

The whole nagging issue is this vague 1,5C safe limit which totally ignores the rather imminent loss of most Arctic sea ice and the consequences that brings.

Well when it rains in the desert that is probably a historic event too.
Those tires are well covered though.  :)

Consequences / Re: The Holocene Extinction
« on: January 13, 2021, 04:34:22 PM »
Lets leave the robots out of this since it is such a big tragedy on its own and we did it mostly without them anyway...

Policy and solutions / Re: Tesla glory/failure
« on: January 13, 2021, 04:19:01 PM »
Nobody expected that the market would keep on pushing out compliance cars until after Tesla became a force to recon with.
Maybe nobody should have payed more attention to what the old school car makers were doing?

It will be an interesting study but maybe it should focus at ´denial bubbles´. The most concrete action they undertook was lobbying for an easy to cheat emissions test. Decades wasted because they also counted themselves as to big to fail.

Consequences / Re: COVID-19
« on: January 12, 2021, 10:40:14 PM »
I suggest discussing them on the relevant thread.

Science / Re: 2020 CO2 emissions
« on: January 12, 2021, 10:34:03 PM »
We need to do it every year and not by accident. Earth also does not for accounting tricks so we have a challenge ahead.

Consequences / Re: COVID-19
« on: January 12, 2021, 10:31:01 PM »
I suggest using bold text for highlights and skipping non standard letter size.

The ham sandwiches have no relation to Covid, it is just Brexit stuff.

Policy and solutions / Re: Tesla glory/failure
« on: January 11, 2021, 07:35:56 PM »
Well there should also be robo cars and less private ownership along the way...

Consequences / Re: Origins of COVID-19
« on: January 11, 2021, 04:33:26 PM »
Note: on previewing I saw that somehow a emoji somehow became part just before "recently"  in the quote of the final paragraph..  I do not use emojis, I do not know how it got there.

In this case an 8 and a ) without the space between them were displayed as an emoji.

The rest / Re: Astronomical news
« on: January 10, 2021, 02:18:08 PM »
But spacecraft are not astronomy.

Consequences / Re: COVID-19
« on: January 10, 2021, 02:16:02 PM »
B117 is the UK strain.

Walking the walk / Re: Gardening
« on: January 09, 2021, 05:36:02 PM »
Interesting and inspiring read. Thanks!

Consequences / Re: Forests: An Endangered Resource
« on: January 09, 2021, 05:13:03 PM »
Some people can´t wait for 2064:

2020 another grim year for Brazilian Amazon

Deforestation destroyed the equivalent of more than two football pitches each minute in the Brazilian Amazon in 2020, another devastating year for a resource seen as vital to curbing climate change, according to government data released Friday.

Brazilian space agency INPE identified 8,426 square kilometers (3,253 square miles) of Amazon rainforest lost to deforestation in 2020, using its DETER monitoring program, which analyzes satellite images to track the destruction monthly.

That was the second-most devastating year for Brazil's share of the world's biggest rainforest since the program was launched in 2015.

The amount of forest destroyed was only larger in 2019, when the figure came in at 9,178 square kilometers.


The Brazilian space agency also operates another satellite-based monitoring program known as PRODES that analyzes deforestation once a year in greater detail.

That analysis, released in November, was even more alarming: it found deforestation surged 9.5 percent annually in the 12 months to August 2020, destroying 11,088 square kilometers of the Brazilian Amazon—an area larger than Jamaica.

The destruction in Brazil, the world's biggest exporter of beef and soybeans, is being driven largely by farmers, ranchers and land speculators bulldozing trees and burning them to make way for crops and pasture.

That has also fueled a surge in destructive wildfires.

The number of fires in the Brazilian Amazon increased 16 percent last year, to a total of more than 103,000.

Fires also devastated the Pantanal wetlands to the south, a paradise of biodiversity that saw an estimated one-quarter of its surface area go up in flames last year.

It was political , Trump related and not discussing covid consequences.
I am sure of one positive consequense of the Covid Pandemic, that is the change of leadership in BSA as I call it from now, without Covid, the Orange Ape would still be there after January 20 2020.

But the "White Trash Matters" movement will still be there!

Trump thread is here:,1748.0.html

I think that alone the fact that this non-sense theory (nice word for it) is discussed in serious over 19 posts before thisone is kind of proof that something's wrong. To discuss this is like starting to discuss any obstruse theory that diverts from important matters and splits society where joint forces would be needed.

I would not call it a non sense theory since it is one actually pursued in science. These models are one way we try to make sense of things.

The whole what should society do is another thing for another thread.

The forum / Re: Forum Decorum
« on: January 08, 2021, 08:56:39 PM »
That is BS because GW always comes back to that if you discuss what we should do about it. That does not mean that all political discussions are interesting or that we should focus on some personal obsessions.

Consequences / Re: Origins of COVID-19
« on: January 08, 2021, 04:07:41 PM »
No you are just making that up.

The very question of the origin is if it came from the lab or just evolved.

We have labs in known places , we work on those things so yes the possibility exists. Nobody is talking about hidden laboratories but you.

Consequences / Re: COVID-19
« on: January 08, 2021, 03:05:30 PM »
I don't understand this. Sub-Saharan Africans get the cold more often than Americans? What? Doesn't make sense to me.

Why not? Much more contacts over the day.

It was political , Trump related and not discussing covid consequences.

Policy and solutions / Re: Tesla glory/failure
« on: January 08, 2021, 02:32:46 PM »
If they get into markets that Tesla is not in (small compact)

The small compacts need much more EVs quickly so it´s great that they get built. Does Tesla even have long term plans to make them?

If Tesla had send 10000 cars to the Netherlands they would have sold them. So they probably sold last years cars where it made most sense.

I would not call those risks. Plenty of EVs needed.

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