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Messages - sidd

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The rest / Re: Ukraine, Nazis and western support
« on: October 17, 2017, 09:54:42 AM »
You have your opinions on the evidence and others have others.

Now as to current neo nazi influence in Ukrainian politics: the People's Front party have 82 seats.

A founder was a guy called Andriy Parubiy who asked that " the European Parliament to reconsider its negative reaction to former Ukrainian President Victor Yushchenko's decision to award Stepan Bandera, the leader of the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists, the title of Hero of Ukraine" 

"In 1991 he founded the Social-National Party of Ukraine together with Oleh Tyahnybok" who is another charmer, look him up.

Parubiy was feted by McCain and Ryan

Another leading light of the People's Front is Arsen Avakov. Now that boy is describd in Wikipedia as drawing the ire of a rabbi:

"In November 2014, Ukraine's chief rabbi Yaakov Bleich condemned Avakov's appointment of Azov Battalion deputy commander and leading Patriot of Ukraine member Vadym Troyan as Kiev Oblast police chief, and demanded that "if the interior minister continues to appoint people of questionable repute and ideologies tainted with fascism and right-wing extremism, the interior minister should be replaced."

The People's Front has a military council [Wikipedia] including

Andriy Biletsky, commander of the Azov Battalion
Ihor Lapin, company commander of the Aidar Battalion

Look up the Aidar and Azov batallions, is instructive.

I'm afraid that rebranding doesn't quite work any more. These guys are nazis and the USA under Obama openly got in bed with them after decades of covert support to Bandera's descendants.  So sad.


The rest / Re: Ukraine, Nazis and western support
« on: October 17, 2017, 08:03:18 AM »
"So really, guys, why are we even talking about right-wing nationalist parties in Ukraine ?"

Perhaps because of the title of this thread ?

"Shouldn't we be talking about ..."

Perhaps because of the title of this thread ...


The rest / Re: Russiagate
« on: October 17, 2017, 07:56:39 AM »
My current understanding is that even the Kremlin is legally alllowed to post content and advertising in support or in opposition to candidates in federal elections without violation of federal law of the USA.

However, a campaign in a federal election is not allowed to receive direct aid from a foreign entity (ignoring foramoment that there are ways around that, too.)

So in federal law,  Russiagate hinges on whether the Trump campaign can be proved to have colluded directly with foreign entities for campaign aid.

That said, as to impeachment:

Impeachment grounds are notoriously ill defined, the House can choose to impeach for pretty much whatever suits their fancy, and then the Senate decides. The current House and Senate will not impeach and confirm, barring Trump choking McConnell to death on the House floor or the equivalent. Which given Trump's disposition, I cannot entirely rule out ...

So impeachment hopes are based upon democrat takeover of House and Senate in 2018. Let us see.

I personally think that Trump might quit on his own. This can't be any fun for him.


The rest / Re: Russiagate
« on: October 17, 2017, 06:10:05 AM »
It just so happens that I was drinking with a lawyer this evening, and I asked him if it would be illegal for a foreign entity to place advertising in support of a candidate in an election in the USA.

He laughed and said, "Good luck with that. Citizen's United settled it. Anybody, foreign or not can place advertising for candidates in an electoral campaign. What the foreigner cannot do is aid an electoral campaign directly."

He directed me to this article, saying it might be clear enuf even for my tiny, nonlegal brain.

His last words on the subject were: "So unless one can prove that the Trump campaign directly colluded with placing the ad, gonna be a long row to hoe."


The rest / Re: Russia in Ukraine
« on: October 17, 2017, 05:38:31 AM »
I think Noam Chomsky's point was that Gorbachev was promised that NATO would not expand eastward, the promise was broken, and in consequence Russia does not play nice anymore.

As for his point that NATO is obsolete, you might want to write him yourself. He is very good about answering. If you do, would you ask him if you can publish the exchange here (but perhaps on a new thread,) he is good about that too.


The rest / Re: Russiagate
« on: October 17, 2017, 05:14:37 AM »
" ... the second amendment will not protect citizen rights from any modern military. "

Agreed entirely, but this discussion is getting quite far afield.

So, to get back to illegal russian influence in election campaign and trump campaign collusion therein:

Does anyone have a link to campaign advertisements funded from non US sources ? I find links stating Mueller has copies from Facebook and apparently the Senate Intelligence committee has them too, but nobody has released anything as far as I can tell.

Well, mebbe just have to wait for the leaks ...


The rest / Re: Russiagate
« on: October 17, 2017, 04:33:12 AM »
" ... you, and sidd, and others are so confident in everyone's (US citizens and otherwise) rights ..."

Not at all. Perhaps you missed the last sentence of my post ?

There are a host of things like Aliens and Sedition act, Espionage act, Korematsu that make me very leery of the actual status of any "right" in the USA, for nationals or foreigners.

The second amendment seems to be the only one that seems to have enuf support to withstand erosion. I guess it tells a lot about the USA. Even a couple roomfuls of dead kids dont matter.


The rest / Re: Russiagate
« on: October 17, 2017, 01:44:12 AM »
Thanx for the link to examples. Those, however are not advertisements,they are Facebook posts. What were the ads sold around that content, does anyone know ?

I think it is legal for anyone, US national or otherwise to say pretty much anything they want,  but they cant place election related ads without violating US law. Now, Facebook is a private corporation, so they can choose to allow or disallow any material posted, but i dont know if they must enforce laws against campaign related ad spending also.

Definitely need a lawyer.


The rest / Re: Russiagate
« on: October 17, 2017, 01:14:56 AM »
Re: First Amendment rights do not extend to non-US citizens.

This is actually not obvious to me.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances"

Here is an article from georgetown law entitled "Are Foreign Nationals Entitled to the Same
Constitutional Rights As Citizens?"

"Given this record, it is not surprising that many members of the general public presume that noncitizens do not deserve the same rights as citizens. But the presumption is wrong in many more respects than it is right. While some distinctions between foreign nationals and citizens are normatively justified and consistent with constitutional and international law, most are not. The significance of the citizen/noncitizen distinction is more often presumed than carefully examined. Upon examination, there is far less to the distinction than commonly thought. In particular, foreign nationals are generally entitled to the equal protection of the laws, to political freedoms of speech and association, and to due process requirements of fair procedure where their lives, liberty, or property are at stake."

I am no lawyer. Any lawyers want to chime in ?


Policy and solutions / Re: Coal
« on: October 17, 2017, 12:27:05 AM »
Another couple gigawatt of coal bites the dust:

"The utility will retire its Sandow Power Plan and Big Brown Power Plant in Central Texas, taking a combined nameplate capacity of roughly 2,300 MW offline. "


The rest / Re: Russiagate
« on: October 17, 2017, 12:22:50 AM »
Is it illegal for foreign entities to " ... sow social divisions in America by stoking disagreement and division around a plethora of controversial topics ..." if those topics are not election related ? First Amendment law is quite strong, although hate speech laws might apply. Any lawyers want to chime in ?

Election related campaigns by foreigners are illegal as I understand it. Unfortunately I can find no data on exactly what the election related ads were. Anyone have links ?


The rest / Re: Russiagate
« on: October 16, 2017, 11:42:13 PM »
Fusion/GPS founders refuse to testify to House Intelligence committee:


The rest / Re: Russia in Ukraine
« on: October 16, 2017, 08:31:13 AM »
"You make it sound as if that was a good thing."

I do ? How so ? I said nothing about the legitimacy or lack thereof of Soviet action.


The rest / Re: Russia in Ukraine
« on: October 16, 2017, 07:50:22 AM »
In the vain hope that we can get back to the thread title:

Lets talk realpolitik. In my view, Russia was never going to roll over and play nice as Ukraine joined NATO. There is a NATO review from more than a decade ago (i cannot find it at the moment, but i think it was 2004) saying exactly that.

Russia has rarely been accused of subtlety. They needed Crimea for Black Sea control, and they took it. Donestk and Luhansk took a vote  against the explicit wishes of Russia, and forced their hand. Russia then sent enough support into those provinces to enable them to resist, but not take territory.

Russia could be in Kiev in a day and the Polish border in two. But occupation is a different matter. They well recall what happened the last time they rolled through Ukraine in force. The excerpt below is from part three of the link i posted earlier to the historyanswers site:

"As the Red Army rolled into Kiev, the UPA avoided direct conflict – instead ambushing smaller groups of soldiers and NKVD, and undermining the re-establishment of the Soviet state by killing postmen and school teachers. Vast chunks of territory were carved out for the Ukrainian nationalists before the Soviets brought down the hammer in November 1944, burning the UPA out of their forests hideaways and setting up roadblocks in a vast effort that saw 20 NKVD combat divisions supported by artillery and armoured units deployed.

In early 1945 the Soviets reported that 89,000 nationalists had been killed, approximately 91,000 captured, and approximately 39,000 surrendered. Fierce resistance continued until the late 1940s – long after the German surrender – but Soviet crackdowns, infiltration and mass deportations ground down the nationalist grip on the population to the degree that collective farms were introduced in 1947 virtually unopposed."

Russia wants no part of occupying such hostile territory again. But Crimea will be held, Donetsk/Luhansk oblasts supported forawhile, since those do not require extreme measures.


Some more thoughts:

1) deformable till is helpful, modelled glacial retreat  is slower on deformable bed.
2) the finding that the bed is in steady state for more than a decade is also a good sign
3) it would be useful to find the tidal range in Pine Island Bay as compared to that at the mouth of the Rutland glacier to which they compare. The latter has much stronger tidal variation upstream.


The rest / Re: Russia in Ukraine
« on: October 16, 2017, 05:55:53 AM »

I find personal accusations quite unhelpful for discussion.

I suggest use of the killfile. If some here cannot refrain from personal attack, perhaps they would be better off not reading posts that drive them to to do so; they would be spared fits of anger and the rest of us here spared much drama.

For the record, I see no reason to believe that Mr. TerryM is a shill for Russia, or is being paid for his comments, or is a liar.


The rest / Re: Economic Inequality
« on: October 16, 2017, 01:18:58 AM »
The effects of economic inequality extend beyond economics.

Flint, Michigan has a poverty rate of over 40% and has been broke for a decade and is governed by a series of "emergency administrators" who apparently have kept it in a state of emergency. In an attempt to cut costs, the water supply was switched to a cheaper source, which resulted in poisoning the residents. A study by Kansas University now finds evidence for lowered birth rates and more fetal deaths.

" ... we find fertility rates decreased by 12%, fetal death rates increased by 58% (a selection
effect from a culling of the least healthy fetuses), and overall health at birth decreased (from
scarring), compared to other cities in Michigan."

The war on poverty becomes a war on the poor.


The rest / Re: Russiagate
« on: October 15, 2017, 10:31:18 PM »
I hope those ads are made public. I would like to know if any of the ads purchased by foreign entities were election campaign related. That is a crime in the USA. Of course, that law can be maneuvered around, for an example see AIPAC, but there are others.


The Davies paper is interesting in that it shows evidence for a deformable till bed in steady state.

"The absence of detectable morphological change to the bed over the majority of the ~60 km of bed profiles on PIG could be interpreted in three ways: (1) that no sediment erosion/transport/deposition is occurring at the measured sites; (2) that erosion/deposition is occurring but at rates too low to be detected within the vertical range resolution of the radar; or (3) that thesubglacial till flux is in a steady state wherein sediment transport is active but is not altering the shape of the bed."

They plump for 3).

"We attribute the negligible detection of morphological change at the bed of Pine Island Glacier on the sub-decadal timescale to the ubiquitous presence of a deforming till layer, wherein sediment transport is in steady state such that sediment is transported along the basal interface without inducing measurable vertical displacement to the radar-sounded basal interface."

Another point of interest is that they see no tidal influence at all.

Hmmm. I shall have to think on this, and I eagerly await comments on the paper on the cryo-discuss site. Thanks for the reference.


The rest / Re: Russiagate
« on: October 15, 2017, 10:02:33 PM »
Re: Awan case bearing on Russiagate

The allegation has been made that Russia is behind some or all of the email leaks from the democratic party. Awan certainly had access to Wasserman-Schulz emails and those of many other congress reps. He appears to be fairly unscruplous and vulnerable to blackmail. Therefore I think the Awan case may have bearing.  Let us see where the investigations go, especially the ones by the Capitol police.

He now has reason to co-operate with law enforcement, and i think he is already singing.


The rest / Re: Russia in Ukraine
« on: October 15, 2017, 09:48:34 PM »
"In my 3 years of investigating I have yet to see a single case of an atrocity committed by the Ukrainians. "

What was the Odessa massacre ?  Not an atrocity ?


Greenland and Arctic Circle / Re: What's new in Greenland?
« on: October 15, 2017, 09:41:30 PM »
Sejr et al. on a 13 year hydrographic record from NE greenland, not quite as far north as the Flade Isblink papers i posted earlier on that thread.


Open access. Read all about it.


The rest / Re: Ukraine, Nazis and western support
« on: October 15, 2017, 08:05:27 AM »
For a look at attempted  rehablitation of Bandera, the OUN and the UPA by the current Ukrainian government:

These guys are Nazis and apologists for Nazis.


The rest / Re: Ukraine, Nazis and western support
« on: October 15, 2017, 07:44:40 AM »
For a detailed look at Bandera and associates

Marco Carynnyk (2011) Foes of our rebirth: Ukrainian nationalist discussions
about Jews, 1929–1947, Nationalities Papers, 39:3, 315-352, DOI: 10.1080/00905992.2011.570327

"The article examines archival documents, publications by OUN members, and recent scholarly literature to trace the evolution of OUN thinking about Jews from 1929 through the war years, when the German occupation of Ukraine gave the OUN an opportunity to stage pogroms and persecute Jews, and the prime minister of the state that the OUN proclaimed wrote that he supported “the destruction of the Jews and the expedience of bringing German methods of exterminating Jewry to Ukraine”.

"When the Cracow congress closed, Stepan Bandera asked three of his closest companions – Stepan Lenkavs’kyi, Roman Shukhevych, and Iaroslav Stets’ko – to join him in preparing a master plan for the moment when Germany would attack the Soviet Union."

"With the rest of the disarmed soldiers do as follows: Russians peasants to be disarmed and handed over as prisoners to the Germans, that is, to be liquidated. Other nationalities to be permitted to go home. Political officers and known Communists and Russians to be liquidated. The same (somewhat sharper) with NKVD units. (3833/2/1/31, TsDAVOVU)"

"The national minorities are divided into

a) those that are friendly to us, that is, members of previously subjugated peoples
b) those that are hostile to us, Russians, Poles, Jews.

Re a. Have equal rights with Ukrainians; we help them return to their homelands.

Re b. Destruction in battle, particularly those who defend the regime: deportation to their lands, principally destroy the intelligentsia, which cannot be allowed to assume any official positions, and in general make it impossible to create an intelligentsia, that is, access to schools and so forth. For example, so-called Polish peasants are to be assimilated, given the explanation, especially at this heated and fanatical time, that they are Ukrainians of the Latin rite who have been forcibly assimilated. The leaders to be destroyed. Jews to be isolated, eliminated from official positions in order to avoid sabotage, Russians and Poles all the more so. If there should be an insurmountable need to leave a Jew in the economic adminis- tration, place one of our militiamen over him and liquidate him for the slightest offense. Administrators of various branches can only be Ukrainians, never hostile aliens. Assimilation of Jews is excluded (3833/2/1/38, TsDAVOVU)."

"7. All citizens of the village (locality, collective farm, factory) are required to report to the People’s Militia command any concealed Red Army soldiers, NKVD agents, Jews, and secret informers, in short, anyone who does not belong the community and who came here as a result of the occupation of Ukrainian lands by Red Moscow, as well as citizens who were informers for the NKVD. . ..
10. Failure to carry out these instructions may be punished by application of revolutionary repressions, including the penalty of execution, particularly in the case of points 4 and 7. (3833/2/1/62, TsDAVOVU)"

Then the whitewash about not necessarily attacking Jews because  it might look bad.

"In April 1942 an OUN(B) conference passed a resolution that made a more specific
reference to Jews:

Despite [our] negative attitude toward Jews as a tool of Russian Bolshevik imperialism we do not think it expedient at the present moment in the international situation to take part in anti-Jewish actions in order to avoid becoming a blind tool in alien hands and turning the attention of the masses away from the main enemies. (“Nepovnyi tekst postanov II-oı̈ Konferentsiı̈,” 57/4/346/14, TsDAHOU)"

"Two months later OUN(B) leaders set about rewriting the record of their treatment of
Jews by ordering the preparation of:

c. Lists that would confirm that the Germans carried out anti-Jewish pogroms and liquidations by themselves, without the participation or help of the Ukrainian police, and instead, before carrying out the executions, urged the Jewish committee or the rogues themselves to confirm with their signatures the presence of the Ukrainian police and its involvement in the actions.

d. Material that would clearly confirm that Poles had initiated and taken part in anti-Jewish pogroms and at the same time that they had served as the hirelings and agents of the Germans in their struggle with Ukrainians. (“Nakaz Ch. 2/43, Oblasnym, okruzhnym i povitovym providnykam do vykonannia,” 3833/1/43/9, TsDAVOVU) (Figure 8 )"

"An OUN-UPA leader in the region addressed an appeal, in English, to the “brotherly Czech and Slovak nations.” “We have never edited nor spread nowhere, from our side, neither here, in Ukraine, nor the more in Slovakia any anti-Jewish leaflets,” the leader proclaimed. In all our political literature, underground revolutionary papers and proclamations, neither now, nor at the time of the German occupation you would seek in vain if only one word directed against the Jews. Like objections are nothing other as a sterling invective and lie. As well as we have never taken a part in any anti-Jewish actions. (Potichnyj 158)"

The paper has chapter and verse. Read it if you have the stomach.

Bandera wound up working for MI6 who dropped him, too crazy for them. The CIA worked with his associates. But then the West Germans picked Bandera up under Gehlen, the Nazi rehabed into West Germany intelligence. Unfortunately, Gehlen's organization was thoroughly penetrated by the Soviets, who killed Bandera after a lunch meet with West German intelligence.

So sad.


The rest / Re: Ukraine, Nazis and western support
« on: October 14, 2017, 10:30:45 PM »
For a longish look at Bandera and his party, there is a three part series brginning at

That article has links to parts 2 and 3.

There is a review of Bandera and the OUN at jacobin by Daniel Lazare

"A month earlier, Bandera and his chief lieutenants — Stepan Lenkavs’kyi, Stepan Shukhevych, and Iaroslav Stets’ko — had put the finishing touches on an internal party document entitled “The Struggle and Activities of the OUN in Wartime,” a to-do list for when the Wehrmacht crossed the Soviet border.

It called on members to take advantage of the “favorable situation” posed by a “war between Moscow and other states” to create a national revolution that would draw up all Ukraine in its vortex. It conceived of revolution as a great purification process in which “Muscovites, Poles, and Jews” would be “destroyed . . . in particular those who protect the [Soviet] regime.” Although the OUN regarded the Nazis as allies, the document stressed that OUN activists should commence the revolution as soon as possible so as present the Wehrmacht with a fait accompli:

    We treat the coming German army as the army of allies. We try before their coming to put life in order, on our own as it should be. We inform them that the Ukrainian authority is already established, it is under the control of the OUN under the leadership of Stepan Bandera; all matters are regulated by the OUN and the local authorities are ready to establish friendly relations with the army, in order to fight together against Moscow.

The document continued that “it is permissible to liquidate undesirable Poles . . . NKVD people, informers, provocateurs . . . all important Ukrainians who, in the critical time, would try to make ‘their politics’ and thereby threaten the decisive mind-set of the Ukrainian nation,” adding that only one party would be permitted under the new order — the OUN."

Bandera was even ready to reconsider Ukrainian independence in favor of closer alliance with Nazi Germany.

"In a letter to Alfred Rosenberg in August 1941, Bandera offered to meet German objections by reconsidering the question of Ukrainian independence. On December 9, he sent him another letter pleading for reconciliation: “German and Ukrainian interests in Eastern Europe are identical. For both sides, it is a vital necessity to consolidate (normalize) Ukraine in the best and fastest way and to include it in the European spiritual, economic, and political system.”

"Ukrainian nationalism, he went on, had taken shape “in a spirit similar to the National Socialist ideas” and was needed to “spiritually cure the Ukrainian youth” who had been poisoned by their upbringing under the Soviets."

"Citing the Polish historian Grezegorz Motyka, Rossoliński-Liebe says that the UPA killed close to 100,000 Poles between 1943 and 1945 and that Orthodox priests blessed the axes, pitchforks, scythes, sickles, knives, and sticks that the peasants it mobilized used to finish them off.

Simultaneously, UPA attacks on Jews continued at such a ferocious level that Jews actually sought the protection of the Germans. “The Banderite bands and the local nationalists raided every night, decimating the Jews,” a survivor testified in 1948. “Jews sheltered in the camps where Germans were stationed, fearing an attack by Banderites. Some German soldiers were brought to protect the camps and thereby also the Jews.”

Yup. Nazi enuf for me.


The rest / Re: Ukraine, Nazis and western support
« on: October 14, 2017, 08:21:18 PM »
I posted a specific passages from the OUN party manifesto:

"Moskali [i.e. ethnic Russians], Poles, and Jews that are hostile to us are to be destroyed in struggle, particularly those opposing the regime, by means of: deporting them to their own lands, eradicating their intelligentsia, which is not to be admitted to any governmental positions, and overall preventing any creation of this intelligentsia (e.g. access to education etc)... Jews are to be isolated, removed from governmental positions in order to prevent sabotage... Those who are deemed necessary may only work under strict supervision and removed from their positions for slightest misconduct... Jewish assimilation is not possible."

Nazi enuf for me, but not for some, apparently.


The rest / Re: Ukraine, Nazis and western support
« on: October 14, 2017, 09:53:51 AM »
The wikipedia article on Bandera is quite well referenced. I recommend reading it with attention to OUN.

extract from wikipedia. note that this resolution was adopted before bandera fell out with the Nazis foraminnit.

Hostility to both the Soviet central government and the Jewish minority were highlighted at the OUN-B's Conference in Kraków in May 1941, at which the leadership of Bandera's OUN faction adopted the program "Struggle and action of OUN during the war" (Ukrainian: "Боротьба й діяльність ОУН під час війни") which outlined the plans for activities at the onset of the Nazi invasion of the Soviet Union and the western territories of the Ukrainian SSR.[36] The program declared that:

    The Jews in the USSR constitute the most faithful support of the ruling Bolshevik regime, and the vanguard of Muscovite imperialism in Ukraine. The Muscovite-Bolshevik government exploits the anti-Jewish sentiments of the Ukrainian masses to divert their attention from the true cause of their misfortune and to channel them in a time of frustration into pogroms on Jews. The OUN combats the Jews as the prop of the Muscovite-Bolshevik regime and simultaneously it renders the masses conscious of the fact that the principal foe is Moscow.[44]

Section G of the program – "Directives for organizing the life of the state during the first days" (Ukrainian: "Вказівки на перші дні організації державного життя") outlined activity of the Bandera followers during mid-1941.[37] In a subsection on "Minority Policy", the leaders of OUN-B ordered:

    "Moskali [i.e. ethnic Russians], Poles, and Jews that are hostile to us are to be destroyed in struggle, particularly those opposing the regime, by means of: deporting them to their own lands, eradicating their intelligentsia, which is not to be admitted to any governmental positions, and overall preventing any creation of this intelligentsia (e.g. access to education etc)... Jews are to be isolated, removed from governmental positions in order to prevent sabotage... Those who are deemed necessary may only work under strict supervision and removed from their positions for slightest misconduct... Jewish assimilation is not possible." [45][46][47]

By 1942, Nazi officials had concluded that Ukrainian nationalists were largely indifferent to Jews and were willing to both help them or kill them, if either better served the nationalist cause. A report, dated 30 March 1942, sent to the Gestapo in Berlin, claimed that "the Bandera movement provided forged passports not only for its own members, but also for Jews."[60] The false papers were most likely supplied to Jewish doctors or skilled workers who could be useful for the movement.[61]


Then in 1944 the Nazis let him out again...

Anyhoo, i am not particularly interested in Bandera's needs to kill all Jews or all Poles or merely some of them. He is close enuf to Nazi for me without that.  And so are those who march under his potrait.

The movement to rehabilitate Bandera strikes me as eerily close to a similar movement in India (a movement whose political arm is currently in power) to rehabilitate a guy called Nathuram Godse. Look him up, but do bear in mind that to discuss Godse we probably need yet another thread.

I guess some of us remember more, being older.


The rest / Re: Russiagate
« on: October 14, 2017, 06:56:12 AM »
Nice, thanks. I shall await the Capitol police proceeding next.

Policy and solutions / Re: Oil and Gas Issues
« on: October 13, 2017, 11:55:39 PM »
Well, well, well. No IPO for Aramco ?!

"Saudi Aramco is considering shelving plans for an international public offering in favor of a private share sale to world sovereign funds and institutional investors ..."


The rest / Re: Economic Inequality
« on: October 13, 2017, 08:22:06 PM »
Pew research poll, some god news and some bad.

"The share of the U.S. poor population in severe poverty – defined by the Census Bureau as those with family or individual incomes below half of their poverty threshold – reached its highest point in at least 20 years. It was 45.6% in 2016, up from 39.5% in 1996. (The share of the total U.S. population in severe poverty has declined over the past two years, alongside the overall poverty rate.) "

"The Census data show a different trend for American families who were not in poverty in 2016. For the vast majority of these Americans, the average income surplus – the amount a family’s income is above its poverty threshold – was at least $15,000. The share of families above poverty with a surplus at least that large has gradually ticked upward in recent years, from around 84% in 2010 to 87% in 2016."

Based on census data.


The rest / Re: Ukraine, Nazis and western support
« on: October 13, 2017, 07:58:49 PM »
I began this thread but i do not own it. By Ukrainian Nazis i mean those Ukrainian collaborators like Bandera and his ideological descendants.


The rest / Re: Russiagate
« on: October 13, 2017, 07:54:34 PM »
Re: Awan case reporting

I would welcome sources other than the daily caller. Unfortunately Luke Rosiak one of the few reporters following all the court proceedings that i can find. And if anyone has links to the legal filings, please do post them.


The rest / Re: Ukraine, Nazis and western support
« on: October 13, 2017, 09:35:56 AM »
This is getting quite repetitive.

I have laid out my evidence and Rob has laid out his. This thread is not that long, people can read easily.

If i find more evidence i will post and i hope others do also, bearing in mind the title of this thread.

As far as Russian support for anybody, or airliner shootdown, please take it to the "Russia in Ukraine" thread.


The rest / Re: Russiagate
« on: October 13, 2017, 07:35:17 AM »
" ... it's still unclear as to whether he'll be questioned about the leaks."

Of course they are questioning him about everything.

What is publicly known is that Capitol police are investigating offsite data transfer and equipment fraud, FBI on him for fraudulent mortgage loans, Pakistani cops for land scams.

That guy is so screwed. They got him over a barrel. His wife is doing independent defense, probably has flipped.  From his history, sounds like he will fold and rat out everyone he knows.

The only question is if the feds will step in and assert state secrets like they do on most embarassments.

Of course, it  all leaks these days.


Consequences / Re: Qué se ficieron ?
« on: October 13, 2017, 06:57:23 AM »
"It would be nice to know what becomes of the guards, where will they go and what jobs will they take when the army is done with them?"

O my. does anyone not know the provenance of torture ? This did not arise ex nihilo. A lot of the national guard units at abu ghraib were prison jailers at home. These guys were brutalizing prisoners in the USA long before they were given leave work out the CIA's worst fantasies on Iraqis.

For example:

"As of this past summer, the prison administration estimated that of about 700 prison employees, twenty-nine staff, twenty-six of whom were guards, were currently on active duty. Another thirty-seven had been activated at some point since 2001 but had since returned to the prison.

Another one is terrorizing people on the streets of NYC:

These scum do walk among us. The Taguba report names some.

He lost his job, a Major General, no less for that one. Since then he has accused the Bush admin of war crime.

And who can forget Professor Yoo at Berkeley.

These creatures (forgive me, I cannot call them men or women) do walk among us. I hope I never meet any of them, I might throw up.


Arctic sea ice / Re: Stupid Questions :o
« on: October 13, 2017, 05:44:25 AM »
(This entire discussion might need it's own thread called "effect of cloud and water vapor in arctic and austral winter")

Let me construct a cartoon picture. I ignore many things, but bear with me.

To first approximation, earth is in energy balance (to +/- 1 watt/sq. meter )
Shortwave solar input is on the order of 1kilowatt/square meter

Most of the heat goes in around the equator. Most of it is lost from the currently dark pole, north pole in northern winter, south pole in southern.

so a kilowatt/sq. m. or so got to go out from the dark pole.

The oceans are like a big capacitor in the middle of the input heat and output heat.

Now put a cloud cap on one dark pole every winter, the heat cant get out in winter from that pole.  Several things happen.

1) Winters get hugely hotter in that hemisphere.
2) Heinrich events as grounded ice melts.
3) Ocean circulation reorganizes to export much more heat through unclouded pole.

We may be seeing 1) but  not yet 2) and 3)
Timescale for 3) is, of course, the timescale of the bipolar seesaw, a few millennia, so we wouldn't expect that right away.

Of course, none of this  says that water vapor/clouds are actually increasing in arctic winter. But it is something i wish someone were watching.

(This all began with a discussion with a paleontologist and a zoologist about to how one could have alligators in the arctic. Cloudy, rainy winters seemed to be their view.)


"If people are kept away from provocateurs, they generally don't become monsters."

"To prevent the making of monsters we need to discourage provocateurs."

"We must begin calling out the dangerously untrue and unreal whether in the scientific of the political realm."
I take it that in the last sentence "of" should be read "or."

I do not believe the first sentence, or the second. In my experience monsters can grow all by themselves but  in a healthy society they gain no power.

As to the third sentence, I wonder what "calling out" means ? Some seem to think that "calling out" means "shouting down."


The rest / Re: Ukraine, Nazis and western support
« on: October 13, 2017, 03:20:57 AM »
Cohen is one of the few sane voices in leftpondistan, and Chomsky of course needs no praise from me. But may we continue this discussion in the "Russia in Ukraine" thread, please ?


Two discussion papers from ocean-sci-discuss earlier this year of the first CTD measurements in Wandel Hav. Nice data. Hydrography is interesting. Open access. Read all about it:


Consequences / Re: Places becoming less livable
« on: October 12, 2017, 11:48:05 PM »
BBC piece on the Death of the Nile:


Consequences / Re: Why nuclear weapons should no longer be tested.
« on: October 12, 2017, 11:16:36 PM »
An oldie but a goodie, calls for elimination of not only testing, but of all nuclear weapons, by someone who worked at Los Alamos.

The guy got fired, apparently for mentioning Israel's nukes.

There is a directive callled WNP-136 from the Department of Energy which so frightens researchers that Paul Pilar resorted to calling them "kumquats" in his article


Consequences / Re: Floods
« on: October 12, 2017, 10:51:00 PM »
FEMA seriously behind on revising floodplain maps:

"The Federal Emergency Management Agency has delayed decisions on flood zone determinations — in some cases by two years or more — and currently has more than 240 mapping projects on hold, the department's inspector general warned in a report dated Sept. 27.

As a result, only 42 percent of FEMA’s flood risk database is currently up to date, meaning more than half of the country’s flood map miles need to be revised, the review found. The agency’s stated goal is to have 80 percent of its flood maps current."

Some of the reasons are  political: homeowners shriek a lot when the floodplain is revised to include their own house ... on the other hand the insurance industry has clout and wants to raise flood risk insurance premiums if they are to stay in the market.


The rest / Re: Russiagate
« on: October 12, 2017, 10:47:29 PM »
Former Attorney General to meet with Senate and House intelligence committees:


Consequences / Re: Qué se ficieron ?
« on: October 12, 2017, 10:26:33 PM »
Let them starve, and keep them caged until they die. The USA is a post justice country now. No need for trials, evidence or any of that frippery. Forever prisoners of a forever war.


Policy and solutions / Re: Coal
« on: October 12, 2017, 09:56:36 PM »
25% of US coal power plants headed for closure or conversion, anothe 17% uneconomic

Consequences / Re: Hansen et al paper: 3+ meters SLR by 2100
« on: October 12, 2017, 09:48:22 PM »
Hearty and Tormey review in Marine Geology of late Eemian sea level evidence from the Bahamas and Bermuda:

" ... during a global climate transition late in the MIS 5e interglacial, abrupt sea-level changes occurred, and concurrently coastlines of the Bahamas and Bermuda were impacted by massive storms, resulting in a unique trilogy of wave-transported deposits: mega-boulders, chevron storm beach ridges, and runup deposits on eolian ridges. A composite MIS 5e sea-level curve (Hearty et al., 2007b; O'Leary et al., 2013) indicates early stability around + 2.5–3 m, followed by a slight regression, and ending the interglacial with a rapid rise to + 6–9 m. This rise overtopped coral reefs and shifted depocenters kilometers landward and bankward. Regression of sea level after this peak left a series of massive storm-beach and dune ridges (Suppl. Figs. S1–S3). Such rapid sea-level shifts require ice sheet growth and melting, comparable with the last deglaciation meltwater events (Edwards et al., 1993; Blanchon andShaw, 1995; Tu et al., 2001; Golledge et al., 2014; DeConto and Pollard,2016)"

"This sediment and rock record provides a perspective into natural and non-human driven climate changes at a time when atmospheric CO 2 was at ~ 275 ppm and global temperatures were only about 1 °C warmer than today. Under climatic conditions with considerably less CO 2 forcing and only slightly warmer temperatures, sea levels ranged between + 2.5 and +9 m above present sea level. At the close of the interglacial, steeper temperature and pressure gradients in the North Atlantic Ocean generated superstorms and large, long period waves on higher sea levels, impacting Bermuda and the eastern margin of the Bahamas."

The reference list is magisterial and I would retain the paper for that alone. But the whole paper is good. Read all about it. Open access.


The rest / Re: Economic Inequality
« on: October 12, 2017, 08:28:00 PM »
Report from IMF Fiscal monitor on inequality. Many graphs. I attach four, but do reead the whole thing, rather good I thought.

Also covered at nakedcap by Yves Smith.


The rest / Re: Russiagate
« on: October 12, 2017, 08:09:11 PM »
Re: relevance of Awan case

Awan had access to many democratic congressional reps computers, network access, and credentials. The case may illuminate the leaks of DNC and other documents by guccifer and wikileaks. Especially the (lack of) security measures in those networks.


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