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Messages - Hopen Times

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1
Arctic sea ice / Re: Arctic Image of the Day
« on: July 27, 2020, 02:29:19 AM »
Shoot tonight between 23:30 and 01:30 at Årvikstrand, Northern Norway. Last day with midnight sun at this spot.

2
Arctic sea ice / Re: Arctic Image of the Day
« on: July 24, 2020, 10:51:49 AM »
I guess those are made by the tide. The clumps of ice are stranded and at every high tide the ocean nibbels a bit on the ice. The walruss propably entered the lump of ice during high tide and when the picture was taken, the tide was low.

Sorry but NO !

It's a known phenomenon as explained upthread.

Once something is grounded there is always some list (99.9% which is why more than one, meters appart, only in theory can exist but in real life won't happen)
Indeed. Besides, the vertical tidal movement in Arctic waters is way too small, at max some few tens of centimeters.

I guess the image is from the CAA, where there is hardly any tidal surging taking place. Compare this to e.g. the Hebrides or the British Columbia coast where the tidal movement causes massive surges in narrow channels. Such surges are nowhere to be seen in the CAA, only at best som shlight shifting back and forth.

binntho, maybe I misunderstand something here, but in the linked article tides up to 15 meters height difference in Hudson strait, 2,8 meters in Landcaster Sound and so on, are mentioned. https://www.google.com/search?=ALeKk00XGx5AW8xlrorIgQSJ_bTM9o0Y-Q%3A1595577370896&ei=GpQaX86hNtLLrgTkhaPQBg&q=canadian+arctic+tide+measurement+techniques+and+results&oq=canadian+arctic+tide+measurement+techniques+and+results

Looking at tidal charts/measurements as well, gives me vertical tide movement way beyond your estimates. https://www.waterlevels.gc.ca/eng

What am I missing here?


3
Arctic sea ice / Re: Arctic Image of the Day
« on: July 23, 2020, 07:26:46 PM »
I guess those are made by the tide. The clumps of ice are stranded and at every high tide the ocean nibbels a bit on the ice. The walruss propably entered the lump of ice during high tide and when the picture was taken, the tide was low.

4
Arctic sea ice / Re: Tides
« on: April 07, 2020, 10:24:40 AM »
Thanks oren. I think I can see that. Then I wonder, is the geometry and bathymetry in the Fram Strait like this? Further, can it have any big effect on the export numbers in the Fram Strait? Asked in a silly way, can we say, here comes a big tidal wave an it is going to move a lot more ice than normal thru the Fram Strait?

5
Arctic sea ice / Re: Tides
« on: April 07, 2020, 09:07:08 AM »
I am trying to understand how tides are supposed to give changes in how much ice that moves thru Fram Strait over time, but it is hard for me to understand it. I have no problem seeing that the tides moves the ice back and forth, but in my head the back and forth movement ends in zero movement caused by the tide. How can it be anything else than a back and forth movement ending in zero movement?

Here is video I made, showing how tides move ice back and forth. Sorry for the repost of it, but I think it gives a nice example of how the tides moves ice back and forth. It is made here: https://norgeskart.no/#!?project=norgeskart&layers=1011&zoom=7&lat=8519505.88&lon=777966.88
There is a current moving south in this area.
In the clip starting at 2:18 the wind is acting as well.
I know this is not the Fram Strait.




6
Arctic sea ice / Re: Tides
« on: April 04, 2020, 01:44:17 PM »
binntho, what are your thoughts on MOSAiC´s experiences with the tide? As mentioned in post #24.
 

7
Arctic sea ice / Re: Tides
« on: April 03, 2020, 02:28:25 PM »
The ongoing Mosaic expedition would be a prime example - have they ever mentioned tidal effects on the movement of ice around their vessel? Not that I've seen.

MOSAiC writes about tides affecting their floe on 27. March. https://follow.mosaic-expedition.org

Ohboiohboi! All scrambles...

Quote
Even after two weeks, the dynamics of our floe do not calm down. Our ice floe with initially a diameter of several kilometers is getting smaller and smaller as a consequence of natural forces. Tides in the ocean and strong winds in the atmosphere are pushing the floe. At the same time and due to the same forces, the leads around us give space when the ice is relaxing again. These ongoing dynamics keep our personal tensions up: How will the floe look like tomorrow morning? Can we work on the ice? Which installations on the ice might need to be rescued? Can we use the powerline between the ship and the ice floe? Over the last days, the latter was not always the case as the ship was simply moving too much. Also, small "island states" that are not accessible by foot have formed. However, using the helicopters on board, allows to continue our measurements in these outposts with limitations. The expedition name "MOSAiC" says it all!

8
Arctic sea ice / Re: The 2020 melting season
« on: April 01, 2020, 10:16:55 AM »
Binntho, how do you define shallow waters and how far from the coast do you think you can observe the coastal effect?

9
Arctic sea ice / Re: Arctic Image of the Day
« on: December 31, 2019, 10:28:28 AM »
New Years eve celebration at Hopen Meteorological Station, 2013. Thank you all for a wonderful and a very interesting forum.


10
Arctic sea ice / Re: Arctic Image of the Day
« on: October 14, 2019, 06:10:02 AM »
One of the task for the crew on the weather station at Hopen, is to measure sea ice thickness. That has been done since 1966. Here is a link to a studie from 2008 on the data. "Decrease of sea ice thickness at Hopen, Barents Sea, during 1966-2007"
https://data.npolar.no/publication/a696421d-b350-5167-a962-42eb8c42ca53

Since 2007, I know that there has been several years where it has been difficult to get good readings, due to weak an lack of ice.

The weather station also has a blog. Not very scientific.
http://hopenmeteo.no


11
Arctic sea ice / Re: Arctic Image of the Day
« on: October 10, 2019, 08:16:00 PM »
Thank you for the feedback. One day I will return to Hopen, hopefully before the ice is gone, and make a better version. Hopen is, to me, the most beautiful place on Earth. Or as the text on official bath towel of Hopen states: «The island of loneliness, inaccessibility and hopelessness.» Inspired by the name of one of the chapters in the book about Hopen.

12
Arctic sea ice / Re: Arctic Image of the Day
« on: October 08, 2019, 01:02:32 PM »
Here is a timelapse I made 9 years ago. The quality is not much to cheer for, but the movie has its moments.

13
Arctic sea ice / Re: "Smart" and "Stupid" Questions - Feel Free To Ask
« on: September 17, 2019, 10:50:59 AM »
Thank you!!

14
Arctic sea ice / Re: "Smart" and "Stupid" Questions - Feel Free To Ask
« on: September 16, 2019, 08:29:33 PM »
Asking for a friend about analysing ice cores:
"Just wandering if there have been years when it was so warm so the layers of some years now are missing. Would we know that and how would we find the temperature of these years? I mean we would not find the temperatures of 2012 in Greenland ice core 200 years from now. Have there been similar periods in the past?"

15
Arctic sea ice / Re: "Smart" and "Stupid" Questions - Feel Free To Ask
« on: September 11, 2019, 11:37:31 AM »
It has nothing to do with Greenland temperatures!!!!!!!!

I am not sure if the University of Copenhagen agrees with you:
Quote
Under which conditions did the water evaporate, and how much cooling did the vapour experience on its way to the ice cap before forming the precipitation that ended up as the layers in the ice cap?
http://www.iceandclimate.nbi.ku.dk/research/past_atmos/past_temperature_moisture/

Quote
Every time precipitation forms, the air mass will become more depleted in heavy isotopes. In the language of physics, fractionation takes place. During cold conditions (e.g. during winter or in a cold climatic period), the air masses arriving in Greenland have cooled more on the way, thereby having formed more precipitation and the remaining vapor is therefore more depleted in heavy isotopes (corresponding to lower δ18O vales).
http://www.iceandclimate.nbi.ku.dk/research/past_atmos/past_temperature_moisture/fractionation_and_temperature/

Quote
From analyses of the isotopic composition of Greenland ice cores it is possible to obtain a record of past Greenland climate reaching more than 100,000 years back in time. ... But the isotopes also tell about the climatic conditions in the areas from which the moisture source originates.
http://www.iceandclimate.nbi.ku.dk/research/past_atmos/past_temperature_moisture/

As I understand University of Copenhagen, Greenland ice cores reflects both the temperature in the the areas from which the moisture source originates and the temperature the vapour experienced on its way travelling, over both sea and ice. 

This is not my field, so I am very open for that there is something I am missing here.

Edit: More on the same topic.
Quote
So while the individual δ18O and δD records tell about local temperatures, small differences between the two records tell about moisture source temperatures.
http://www.iceandclimate.nbi.ku.dk/research/past_atmos/past_temperature_moisture/isotopes_reveal/

16
Arctic sea ice / Re: The 2019 melting season
« on: July 24, 2019, 06:05:53 PM »
Re: the icebreaker.
According to this article the ship had to return due to a leakage in the propellerhouse. The thicknes of the ice was not a problem. The icebreaker was built in Italy and was one year late due to construction problems, according the article. https://www.nrk.no/troms/forskningsskipet-_kronprins-haakon_-skadet-etter-mote-med-is-1.14636312

17
Arctic sea ice / Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« on: July 01, 2019, 10:17:21 AM »
I am going a bit out of my comfort sone, but I will try to add a piece to the surge/swell/wave-hitting-the-ice discussion. I would like to say that a tidal wave is a kind of a surge, please correct me if am wrong here. If Rich is correct about his thoughts about surges flooding ice, then I think tidal waves should have the capacity to flood ice, at least in some spots. Tidal waves, needles to say, occur regularly, so it should be easy to find examples of tidal waves/surges flooding the ice.

Rich, you have a hypothesis that surges can flood ice, can you back it with observations?

I think you will have a hard time finding examples of flooded sea ice. My self, I have never seen, or never heard of, the ice be flooded by waves or surges and I have spent six winters on a smal island in the Barent Sea, surrounded by drift ice, spending a lot of time on the ice and watching the ice. 

I have a video that shows what happens to the ice when the tidal waves passes. 


18
Arctic sea ice / Re: "Smart" and "Stupid" Questions - Feel Free To Ask
« on: December 20, 2018, 09:43:39 AM »
Thanks, Oren.

19
Arctic sea ice / Re: "Smart" and "Stupid" Questions - Feel Free To Ask
« on: December 18, 2018, 01:43:55 PM »
Do any of you know how sea level rise will affect marine glaciers? In my head rising seas will affect melting and also make marine glaciers more unstable and speed up the collapse of the glaciers, but there is a big chance that I am wrong. 

20
Arctic sea ice / Re: Arctic Image of the Day
« on: August 11, 2018, 04:22:12 PM »
I made this a few years ago. The video shows drifting sea ice around Hopen.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/YBTVJIH6En8&amp;t=4s" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/YBTVJIH6En8&amp;t=4s</a>

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