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Messages - nanning

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Consequences / Re: The Holocene Extinction
« on: Today at 04:17:48 PM »
Thank you wili and ktb. Very nice to read your words because I have not yet seen people put it and understand it like that :).

Re: "If the old ways were so good, why do all these tribes join Civilization when it arrives?"

Tom, why are you posting these one-liners with assumed but false facts? It is not respectful discussion in my view.

As I have written many times before in the past week, civilisation has violently conquered all other tribes and is in the proces as-we-speak to conquer the very last remaing ones in South America and South-East Asia. I don't mean the ones who are already trading for civilisation goods and walk in t-shirts. Those are not non-civilisation anymore. I mean the ones completely outside civilisation.

When you travel back in time through the holocene, you'll notice that the cancerous spot of civilisation draws inwards and the Garden of Eden returning. I wish you didn't forget about all life and habitats on Earth that are degraded or gone or extinct because of high technology?
I see a strong correlation: The further back, the lower the technology and the less destruction. Even 100 years ago there was so much more nature. Only with current high technology can we destroy living nature at the current rate. Are you unable to imagine going back, reverting to lower technology? The blind temptations of high tech need to be recognized for their true meaning and effect.

The old ways are gone now because violent civilisation culture has erased all the old knowledge. Our history and science only sees 'worth' if it originates from the succesful conquerors, from civilisation itself. Document the low tech cultures of the barbarians, the savages? No, that started much later when almost all old ways were already gone.

Some tribes close to civilisation may fall for the enormous material temptations of our poducts. Material temptation and commerce/advertising are forms of violence.

Temptation = evil, the way of the devil, the way to greed, jalousie, loss of empathy, insanity, destruction. High tech is a temptation.

Are these images from looking through 'rose colored glasses':
High child death rate, disease, many dangers, survival, no control. I would sign/choose for it because I have a good idea about what 'we' have lost when 'we' wanted security and control in stead of facing reality.

The rest / Re: The off topic off topic thread
« on: Today at 03:37:40 PM »
Hi Henry, to answer your questions:

Vitamin D3
   normal range: 50-250 nmol/L
   test result:  24 nmol/L
Vitamin B1
   normal range: 100-190 nmol/L
   test result: 142 nmol/L
Vitamin B6
   normal range: 50-180 nmol/L
   test result: 162 nmol/L

CRP: 3 mg/L

I don't recognize Ca, PO4, Mg, PTH or other vitamins or CK on the result sheet.

Vitamin K: I take anticoagulants since dec2013 which contain vitamin K if I'm correct.
The test was taken on 15 april 2019.
Yes I'm well and don't suffer from the things you mention. No malabsorption because I've grown a kilo more mass in a couple of days' time recently. I am 60 Kg.
I have eaten some fish recently, but not for years before the test. It's probably good to eat fish now and then but it is expensive for me.
I only sunbath in april/may and in the mornings/late afternoons during jun/jul.

Henry, it is very nice of you to care and take an interest and give that information. Thank you.
Please be aware, as stated above, that there are many criteria and symptoms so don't dive into this without all the information. It would be a waste of time I think.

Thanks again and all the best to you Henry.

You mean the continental shelves, the seas, where the scallops are raked up by some sort of bottom trawler. This bottom trawling destruction has been going since the late middle ages. I've read that in "The Unnatural History of The Sea" by Callum Roberts.

I think there's no food to bottom trawl from the ocean floor, even if you could reach there.

Going mining in the ocean floor at >2Km depth gives a multitude of problems. I wish they will not succeed. The total destruction has to stop.

Another disadvantage of having robots: More destruction more efficiently.

by Ginger Hervey in Nairobi

'Food prices shot up': floods spark a scramble for survival in east Africa

     From Somalia to South Sudan, torrential rains have devastated crops
          and made roads impassable, sending the cost of food soaring

“Almost all the foodstuffs, in terms of prices, shot up. It became a big disruption,” said Hassan, who chairs a community group in the village of Sheikh Aweys, in the Bakool region of south-west Somalia. “People are struggling to survive.”

A series of floods across east Africa has been the latest shock to the region’s food supply, wiping out crops and raising prices in the areas most heavily affected.

But people now face a longer-term effect, one that has been snowballing around the region for years: food insecurity.

The rains have drowned or destroyed hundreds of thousands of hectares of cropland in Somalia, South Sudan, Ethiopia and Kenya. They have flooded roads, making it difficult to transport surviving crops, and forced many farmers to abandon their homes and fields.

These countries were already reeling from extended periods of drought in previous years that caused poor harvests and depleted reserves. Some have also had to contend with factors like inflation and conflict.

Hassan said her monthly income of about £75 used to cover all her family’s expenses. Since the floods, however, rising food prices and slowing business in the village have meant her salary barely lasts until the middle of the month.

“What we’ve seen over many years in Somalia is, once a population gets displaced, there’s little incentive to return,” Maalim said. “[The floods are] emptying the breadbasket region of people.”

Video from

Hundreds of Central American migrants rounded up by guardsmen at Mexico border

Source: AP and Reuters

The forum / Re: ASIF Style Guide
« on: Today at 11:22:42 AM »
"My personal records are 7 nested IFs and 5 nested FORs (as demanded by the problems,"

You have not put pre-conditions, post-conditions and nested invariants in every loop i guess? Being rigid minimizes the amount of bugs and is better for other people to read your code and adapt it in my opinion.
Have you looked at other languages for your problems? Prolog?
I am curious. What do you mean with "personal records" because it doesn't seem to be a database.

I think a clear style guide would be good. I wouldn't want AI to restructure because information and quality of communication gets lost I fear, sorry gerontocrat :).

    Carbon dioxide equivalent

Global warming potential

Carbon dioxide equivalency is a quantity that describes, for a given mixture and amount of greenhouse gas, the amount of CO
2 that would have the same global warming potential (GWP), when measured over a specified timescale (typically 100 years). Carbon dioxide equivalency thus reflects the time-integrated radiative forcing of a quantity of emissions or rate of greenhouse gas emission—a flow into the atmosphere—rather than the instantaneous value of the radiative forcing of the stock (concentration) of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere described by CO2e.

The carbon dioxide equivalency for a gas is obtained by multiplying the mass and the GWP of the gas
For example, the GWP for methane over 100 years is 34,[3] and for nitrous oxide, 298. This means that emissions of 1 million tonnes of methane or nitrous oxide are equivalent to emissions of 34 or 298 million tonnes of carbon dioxide, respectively.

Equivalent carbon dioxide

Equivalent CO2 (CO2e) is the concentration of CO2 that would cause the same level of radiative forcing as a given type and concentration of greenhouse gas. Examples of such greenhouse gases are methane, perfluorocarbons, and nitrous oxide. CO2e is expressed as parts per million by volume, ppmv.

    CO2e calculation examples:

The radiative forcing for pure CO2 is approximated by R F = α ln(C/C0) where C is the present concentration, α is a constant, 5.35, and C0 is the pre-industrial concentration, 280 ppm. Hence the value of CO2e for an arbitrary gas mixture with a known radiative forcing is given by C0 exp(R F/ α) in ppmv.

To calculate the radiative forcing for a 1998 gas mixture, IPCC 2001 gives the radiative forcing (relative to 1750) of various gases as: CO2=1.46 (corresponding to a concentration of 365 ppmv), CH4=0.48, N2O=0.15 and other minor gases =0.01 W/m2. The sum of these is 2.10 W/m2. Inserting this to the above formula, we obtain CO2e = 412 ppmv.

To calculate the CO2e of the additional radiative forcing calculated from April 2016's updated data:[5] ∑ RF(GHGs) = 3.3793, thus CO2e = 280 exp(3.3793/5.35) ppmv = 526.6 ppmv.

The rest / Re: The off topic off topic thread
« on: Today at 07:35:18 AM »
"But the most logical conclusion is that it is actually in your body. "

This is not a logical puzzle. But yes, that's of course the first thing to investigate. Thanks.
This vitamin D thing was just an example. So now it's liver/kidney damage. You'd expect the blood tests to show that. More blood tests? What will you say when the tests show a heathy functioning liver and kidneys? Will you then think of other things so as to not have to think about what's happening to me every day? The torture?
That it is coming from outside of my body -- that I breath it in -- is the only remaining hypothesis because it is the only hypothesis that fits all the (calibrated) criteria. I am very experienced (verified) in finding truth.

Consequences / Re: Decline in insect populations
« on: Today at 07:16:55 AM »
"Ofc the next target is the trees... "

In my view, loggers really don't see trees, which are lifeforms. They see only a job, resources, wood and dollar$.
Pressing buttons to let high tech do the difficult destruction for them. Without high tech humans can't fell a tree.

If there's opposition, no problem, the loggers'll start an old fashioned violent conquering. I ask myself, what's the difference with neo-colonialism? In the end it's all about resources and conquering, and grown-up's social hierarchy.

Loggers are another symptom of civilisation.
They use technology they don't understand and that they can't create themselves. That goes for almost all technology. Users don't understand it and can't create it themselves. Pressing or swiping or switching magic buttons.
e.g. Computertech is magic to >90% of humans.

A corrected first sentence:
"After doing its best to screw the land surface, humanity civilisation now seeks to industrialise the oceans"

Screwing the land surface, emptying and heavily polluting the seas, bottom trawling desertification of continental shelves, digging up 10000's of enormous pits in the Earth, sucking fluidic nasty hydrocarbons from deep underground.

Is the ocean floor the last unexploited and undestroyed part of the Earth? For greed and high tech. This is not for food.

Consequences / Re: The Holocene Extinction
« on: Today at 06:47:19 AM »
Tor, an Aboriginal shantytown has not resemblance to their nomadic lifestyle before civilisation arrived. For bottles you need high tech. These are not the Aboriginals I refered to as non-civilisation.
welfare state? Civilisation's welfare state? From the same civilisation that stole all their land and destroyed their old lifestyles? That's welfare? The violent conquerors give a handful to the victims/prisoners.

Only civilisations have pollution because it's only pollution if you leave behind stuff that is not living nature, stuff that is technology.
For pottery you need ovens and specific locations to get the clay.

Have a think: How much pollution (technology) did civilisation find when they 'discovered' what is now the U.S.A. ? How much pollution (technology) did civilisation find when they conquered Aboriginal Land (Australia)? What did the San tribes leave behind when they were still in their original way of life (i.e. before civilisation arrived)?

Did you kill them before boiling them?
Sorry Terry, I couldn't resist ;)

Consequences / Re: Chinese coronavirus
« on: January 25, 2020, 05:44:20 PM »
Avalonian, thanks for the information.

Question: Are you going to travel by aeroplane?

The rest / Re: The off topic off topic thread
« on: January 25, 2020, 04:54:45 PM »
I am not ill johnm33 and there is no correlation with the circumstances you mention. I have mentioned above that my lungs are in above average health. Total Lung Capacity 8 L.
Don't you think that perhaps I've already been thinking of all things you can think about, and much more, in the past 2 years? Please guys, I know it's with good intention but think "will nanning have thought about this?" before you post these suggestions.
Thanks again for your responses. Much appreciated.

The forum / Re: Forum Decorum
« on: January 25, 2020, 03:29:57 PM »
I wish that fellow members will stop quoting the whole previous discussion in their post.
My scrollwheel becomes very hot sometimes, so hot that my finger looks like E.T.'s finger.

Consequences / Re: Chinese coronavirus
« on: January 25, 2020, 03:23:09 PM »
Thanks pietkuip.

blumenkraft and The Walrus, re: Fearmongering, do you think this is a conspiracy/policy to make people afraid?
fearmonger (plural fearmongers)
    Someone who spreads fear, or needlessly raises the alarm.

Consequences / Re: Decline in insect populations
« on: January 25, 2020, 03:18:36 PM »
Now we know why there's been a decline!

;) ;D

Consequences / Re: The Holocene Extinction
« on: January 25, 2020, 03:11:47 PM »
They didn't pollute their environment. Like other animals, everything they leave behind is part of living nature.
And in my understanding: Before 12000 years ago, all humans lived in small nomadic tribes.

Science / Re: Where are we now in CO2e , which pathway are we on?
« on: January 25, 2020, 02:47:16 PM »
Stephan, could you please post your calculation and the numbers you used?

You mention different factors for GHG's but there is only 1 column in your table. I would have expected several CO2e numbers based on those factors.

Your CH4 seems much too low.
I have done it like this:
dec2020 CO₂ 412 ppm                 =   412    ppm
sep2019 CH4    1.8705 ppm * 85 =  158.99 ppm (85)
                          1.8705 ppm * 28 =    52.37 ppm (20)
dec2020 N₂O      0.332 ppm * 264 =   87.6 ppm

Total CO2e  equivalent                        -------- +
                                                      658.6  ppm CO2e (85)
                                                      552.0  ppm          (20)

Science / Re: Where are we now in CO2e , which pathway are we on?
« on: January 25, 2020, 02:26:57 PM »
I agree with wdmn.
But I don't like "... shit".

The rest / Re: The off topic off topic thread
« on: January 25, 2020, 02:12:59 PM »
Thank you guys for responding. That really means something to me.

Thanks for your interest and questions dear kassy.
Quote: "The fact that you are out in the sun a lot but still have proven low levels of vitamin D means that there is something wrong with the processing in the body."

Not necessarily, it can be a symptom of something else, not originating in my body.
e.g. If you breath in a heavy dosis a gas that makes you vomit and you would then go to the physician and give blood samples, it is expected that some levels will turn out not normal. That doesn't mean that there is something wrong with the processing in the body.
Do you see what I mean?

By the way, apart from never suffering from headaches, I am almost never ill. I've had the flu twice in my life, that's about it. Not allergic to anything. The varying degrees of intensity and effects within 1 day are impossible to explain away as 'something wrong with your processing'. That happens on days where have I completely similar eating/drinking/timing/sleeping patterns, so it's not ascribeable to physiologic effects that I influence.
These days I smoke from ca. 12-20PM 6-8 joints, with each smoked in >45min. I use "WhiteWidow" indica marihuana (which is the least strongest they have) and I make 12 joints from 1 gramme. (ca. 0.6gWW/day). Very low doses, streched over a long period. I have a strong discipline.
These days I drink from ca. 12-20PM ca. 6 30cl bottles of 5% lager beer, with each drunk in >60min. I take small nips. (ca. 9cl alc/day). A low dosis, stretched over a long period.

All my posts here after local time 16PM are written by me after I've had 3 or 4 beers and 4 or 5 joints!

Policy and solutions / Re: Renewable Energy
« on: January 25, 2020, 08:32:02 AM »
Quote from: crandles
Why should someone who uses little or no electric pay for the renewables subsidies? Isn't it appropriate that the electricity users should pay for them?

That is not what taxes are for.
They are not a personal investment.
They are everyones (wealth-corrected) contribution to take care of country-wide infrastructure, utilities etc.

Policy and solutions / Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
« on: January 25, 2020, 08:19:07 AM »
Quote from: TerryM
1.5C0 is a levitating pile of Unobtainium marketed by charlatans that would make David Copperfield blush.

Beautiful :).

Policy and solutions / Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« on: January 25, 2020, 08:13:32 AM »
@Terry interesting, thanks for that.
Increasing uniformity is against the grain of a human's impuls to creatively personalize something for 'home', identity and culture.

The rest / Re: The off topic off topic thread
« on: January 25, 2020, 07:53:57 AM »
Thanks for your advices.
Similar diet? For heaven's sake what do you mean by that implication?

Re: huisarts

Have done that already for several years. I've had checkups on cardio, blood, resporatory etc and now know that my health is A+ which is very nice to know. Bloodpressure at 110/70 mmHg, spirogram (lung function) much(!) better than average and heart condition much(!) better than average for my age. Standard blood sample tests gave a very strange too low vitamin D level. That was measured when I was everyday outside for more than 10 hours and getting plenty of sunshine. The physician didn't think anything of it (i.e. didn't think at all) and prescribed vitamin D which I haven't taken.
Guys, I know the source is from outside but what can a physician do other than take tests?

Fact is that you do not believe and respect my analyses/experience in this. Your responses are so predictable. I have never had any other response.
You just won't face the truth of the thing and you think you know better than me in this. You haven't even asked for more arguments! Sorry but you are disrespectful here, putting yourself above me and telling me of/ignoring my 2 years of experience and my very scientific mind. That is bad behaviour but you will likely tell yourselves that it was meant good and all will be fine.
Well, except me of course, enduring daily torture in varying intensity and effects.

You could help.
I know nothing of chemistry. If one of you knows a lot about biochemistry and biocides, you could help me in figuring out what kind of gasses are able to fit all criteria.

The rest / Re: Good music
« on: January 25, 2020, 07:22:36 AM »
Thanks for those Stephan.
I really like Donna Summer. She has also made good music with Giorgio Moroder ("I Feel Love").
That Mike Francis song is nice and so recognizably coming from the late 80's.

Eddy Grant - Gimme Hope Jo'anna (1988)

Is Mandela still on the U.S.A. terrorist list?

The rest / Re: Ukraine, Nazis and western support
« on: January 25, 2020, 07:08:50 AM »
Thank you so much for your efforts, openness and response to my views Terry.
My experience is that even when I've lost something after a lot of thinking and formulating, the patterns are still in my brain and the effort is not lost.
A great day to you as well!

Consequences / Re: The Holocene Extinction
« on: January 24, 2020, 03:50:32 PM »
'Our' nature?
Who is 'Our'?
Have you taken the stable 60000+ years tribes of e.g. the Australian aboriginals and the African San people into account in that 'Our'?

Re:  (!?)

Wind speed is location specific.
Barcelona is not Leeuwarden, which is the official KNMI meteorological station for our province of Friesland I think.

Have you noticed that windmills are build on places with high winds? It is location specific.

I think if you compare an average wind speed figure from a 5 year period in the 70's with a 5 year period 40 years later, you have something significant if the average changed by 1 full Bft. On a scale of 0 to say 6 bft -> convert to m/s and you know that the 1 Bft variation is stronger than uncertainties from natural variability.

Yes El Cid, I have considered that. I am much stronger now (see my photo in Artic Café) than when I was 12yo and 1m40 so things were not easier back then.

Another anecdotal from me: There was also on average less frequent change of weather patterns and wind directions.

edit: 1 Bft is not a certain speed range so my hypothesis then becomes: The average wind speed has changed from 2.5 to 3.5 Bft in 40 years. I can calculate what that means in m/s. This average should preferably taken from the 08h-18h dayperiods, if that data is available.

Science / Re: 2020 Mauna Loa CO2 levels
« on: January 24, 2020, 10:15:21 AM »
"Remaining budget for catastrophy"

When it is apparent that the +1.5°C carbon budget is 0, will there be a new budget for +2°C? The economists require a budget and cost/benefit. What do you think will happen when the budget is gone?

I think budgets are insane: Civilisation on its death bed gasps with a last painful effort "there is still time....aarrgggh".

Were has all the drinking water gone? Is there no budget?
How much budget is there for severe weather catastrophies? Of course I mean the catastrophies for rich country white people.
How much budget left to further grow the economy?
How much pesticide-budget left before food cannot be grown because of loss of ecosystem 'services'.
How much deforestation-budget left before the loss of ROI?
How much species-budget left until complete or partial biosphere collapse? (if we're there not already)

How much budget until the rich countries have rendered the Earth unlivable/unsurvivable for large mammals?

Precautionary principle anyone? This is not sanity!

Consequences / Re: The Holocene Extinction
« on: January 24, 2020, 09:54:32 AM »
Yes sidd you've read it correct, and no kassy because other days from the same batch would result in the same symptoms.
I am undergoing this for a bit over 2 years and I am very good at truth finding and calibration. I make as much hypotheses as I can see and try to shoot them down with observations, calibration and analysis. Then I get better hypotheses etc. It took me a whole month after the first effects to be certain of the origin of the effects (the air that I breathe). The first effects were simple with e.g. a suddenly a sharp short-lived headache at a particular spot in my head which went away when i moved outside or to another room. I have never had headaches in my life before. Other simple effects like clenching ones teeth/jaws or like an unstoppable urge to vomit (if I don't move to better air). These 'simple' effects I am now no longer experiencing that often. Most nerve gasses are not directly detectable by me. This is very high tech professional torture stuff. It is also outside and I know a lot about it, so e.g. when I sit at the side of a lake with the wind coming from the lake, I am safe from these gasses which makes sense. What all people do when hearing this, is search for all things that might disprove that and say it's my own health or brain or crazy fiction. It took ME a month to be certain. How can I commuicate that in short?
I have hypotheses of course but no real idea who's responsible.
This is the other thing nobody will believe from me. Too unconsciously uncomfortable I think.
With enough money and tech and effort, a lot is possible.

edit: added last sentence

The rest / Re: Good music
« on: January 24, 2020, 08:22:01 AM »
Hakkûhbar - Gabbertje (nl) (1996)

The rest / Re: Good music
« on: January 24, 2020, 08:21:51 AM »
Pitbull ft. John Ryan - Fireball (2014)

Science / Re: 2020 Mauna Loa CO2 levels
« on: January 24, 2020, 08:07:36 AM »
Cross post from Science basics-thread:
Quote from: nanning
It should be easy I think to add a column with the per-ghg CO2e figures if their atmospheric fractions are known.
For Stephan's CO2e reporting, I suggest using two factors: 30 and 90 for methane CO2e, or use above table.

Stephan, since we're most interested in the next decades in my opinion, you could just go with the high factor of 90. That'll give the best information of GHG concentrations for that period I think. It doesn't need to be exact, but just in the right ballpark.

Policy and solutions / Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« on: January 24, 2020, 08:01:38 AM »
To add:
Prime minister, President, Queen/King, manager, every job in Finance and administration ;).

No kassy, no link. It is anecdotal (like in this thread title) from someone who used to cycle a lot and be outside a lot in the 70s and 80s.

I have asked the KNMI (met. office) the question (in 2019):
"In my anecdotal evidence I think the average wind speed has increase by 1 Bft from the 1975-1979 period compared with 2015-2019 period. All average wind speeds are in your database ( and with only one or two SQL queries you can find the answer."

No answer, not even an acknowledgement that they received my mail (this was sent from their own weerstatistieken site).

Science / Re: Science basics-thread?
« on: January 24, 2020, 07:43:33 AM »
Thanks gerontocrat.
It should be easy I think to add a column with the per-ghg CO2e figures if their atmospheric fractions are known.
For Stephan's CO2e reporting, I suggest using two factors: 30 and 90 for methane CO2e, or use above table.

As a sidenote, I don't understand methane atmospheric "lifetime". I had expected a half-life time, the duration after a methane burst until 50% is changed into other molecules.

The rest / Re: Unsorted
« on: January 24, 2020, 07:17:52 AM »
No agumentation Tom. Just bias and feeling in my view.

The powerful civilisation bias: Explain it away as if all humans are like those from unnatural and insane civilisation.

Empirical evidence of e.g. Aboriginal tribes and San tribes disproves your civilisation-bias statement. Now you have to conclude as well that those tribes were not smart enough? Stupid? Think it through and you'll become stuck which means that it's a wrong assumption.

Consequences / Re: The Holocene Extinction
« on: January 24, 2020, 07:05:27 AM »
Dear philopek,

"Once a poster wants to cover all eventualities (like i often did) posts get very long-winding and in each such post people find something to oppose while the original point gets lost in the often nitpicking noise that follows."

I have tried since my first post on this forum to make others see civilisation for what it is, especially that IT IS NOT ALL OF HUMANITY. I am standing up for truth and respect for all the non-civilisation humans.
Calling civilisation "human species" is insulting and wrong, and makes people lose the 'big picture' and make wrong conclusions. A civilisation bias/'bubble'.
This is have found out in my research and I am trying to explain that. It seems such a clear distinction but I have not in any way been succesful. It's as if this bias makes you 'blind'.

"BTW technology is a term that would first have to be specified, i think that indeed ALL humans developed forms of technology."

I find it strange that this clear part of my post is overlooked:

"technological progress, city's, agriculture and ARMIES (voilently 'conquering') and commerce/profit."

Mayans were also civilisation i.e. humans going bad with violence and cities etc.
Egyptians were part of the mediterranian civilisation that violently conquered the whole world. Civilisations are charaterized by armies, cities and conquering.

Technological progress is a symptom. The 'higher' the technology, the more 'powerful' and destructive a civilisation becomes.


Thank you dear dnem. I reacted to the use of the sweeping word "species" to describe civilisation humans. I don't see your post as an attack in any way. I welcome interaction. My 'purity' comes from living truthful to my understanding and my understanding is expert in this context. I didn't read books and ideas from others, I have thought it out by myself. My understanding-arguments are consistent with all other understanding and are from myself. I am a scientist and this is part of my completed research.
Good to read that I may be an inspiration to others. That is very nice and good.

I'm sorry but you appear to not yet understand what I mean. I will keep trying and try to get better at explaining and formulating.
I have no truck with civilisation-bias concepts such as "noble savage".
If you want to understand something large and complex, you have to get out of it and look at it from the outside. That's what I did and do. I can't go back.
if you want to see the structure of the building you're in, you have to step outside of it and walk around it


I have the observation of myself that I changed a bit in interaction/wording for the last couple of days. I'm recovering from a very nasty nerve gas attack last Tuesday afternoon.
I've also gotten somewhat word blind and have to focus and correct a lot. Apologies and please don't judge me too strict.

The rest / Re: Ukraine, Nazis and western support
« on: January 24, 2020, 06:23:12 AM »
We are living with far too many people together. People don't personally know all the others anymore. People don't know their leaders.

This is an unnatural situation and faulty human organisation (tribe/grouping). How to best implement an unnatural system? I don't know but I am not interested in the answer. It is insanity every which way. No offence. Just the view from living nature/reality/alien perspective.

That quote is from Orwell's "Animal Farm" if I'm not mistaken,  which, in a completely unnatural setting as a mirror to civilisation, explores insanities and temptations/corruption in hierarchies.

"King" is an insane concept (leader-of-the-conquering-terrorists-and-owner-of-land-and-people), as is "Lion King". Please leave the animals out of human insane fantasies :). Reality doesn't work like that.

The rest / Re: Unsorted
« on: January 23, 2020, 05:05:44 PM »
"Lets not destroy it all"
Yes indeed kassy, that's what all other lifeforms and non-civilisation human cultures are doing (i.e. not destroying all). In other words: All life on Earth, apart from civilisation, has been enveloped in that. It is called an ecosystem.

That is what is meant by INCLUSIVE if I'm correct; all life included.

And "conscious & inclusive" is what is in ivica's bottom text of that post. Since I explained upthread why that 'script' thing means NON-INCLUSIVE, I expected ivica to give a reaction to that apparent inconsistancy. I didn't get one.

edit: added conscious & inclusive

The rest / Re: Ukraine, Nazis and western support
« on: January 23, 2020, 04:59:18 PM »
I left that out on purpose kassy.
Gizeh? What a monstrosity of a memorial to Insanity and Suffering. Equality? Freedom? Rights? Humanist?
Almost all hierarchies are bad in my understanding.

Yes thanks Aporia.

"Wind speeds and wave heights have been increasing for three decades, "

Here in the Netherlands the winds speeds have also been increasing for three decades.
This week the wind speed is finally a bit lower after weeks of 4 or 5 Bft, the 'new normal', which it will be again after tomorrow if I'm correct.

Consequences / Re: The Holocene Extinction
« on: January 23, 2020, 04:43:46 PM »
Re: technological species
as if the humans you describe is all of humanity but that isn't so: Our species has/had many non-technological humans

The aboriginals from Australia weren't a 'technological species', same as most of ancient tribes didn't have technological progress, city's, agriculture and ARMIES (voilently 'conquering') and commerce/profit.

Please face the truth: The violently-all-conquering-civilisation has reached its end-phase and you're still reasoning as if civilisation is all of humanity in stead of no more than a violently expanding and destructive tribe/culture. How can you forget all the non-civilsation tribes/humans troughout pre/history? What an insult that is to all the nature tribes who were violently 'conquered' by civilisation.

Your worldview of humans should incorporate all humans and not just your civilisation culture/tribe.

The rest / Re: Economic Inequality
« on: January 23, 2020, 04:26:09 PM »
Hi Aporia_filia, that link of yours transfers all people who click on that link to then redirects you to wikipedia.
The link should start with
"Stay away from large (non-open source) software and Internet companies from the U.S.A." is very sound advise.

Consequences / Re: Wildfires
« on: January 23, 2020, 04:11:39 PM »
Thanks for the videolink and for looking up the videotime Florifulgurator.

Policy and solutions / Re: Electric cars
« on: January 23, 2020, 04:08:21 PM »
Thanks Neil, interesting. And I may have been a bit strong in my wording before, sorry.

The rest / Re: Unsorted
« on: January 23, 2020, 11:44:25 AM »
Tom, it has been going on since civilisation started 10000 years ago.
It will stop when civilisation collapses. As will antropogenic emissions, deforestation etc.

ivica, you haven't responded to my statements (supremacy, other lifeforms, 'script').

Policy and solutions / Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« on: January 23, 2020, 11:41:55 AM »
"Perhaps I'm more depressed than usual"
Of course I don't know what the basis is for you being depressed but it could be that your thinking and understanding might be coming in line with reality.
In my opinion, acceptance is key. And emotionally detaching from the extreme losses of ecosystems, all other lifeforms and human shared high morality. Without acceptance and emotionally disconnecting I am able to live and watch the total destruction unfold. Extreme unbearable grief and depression is the result of emotionally connecting.

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