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Messages - nanning

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1
Thanks for all your interesting posts Vox.

Those robots are doing the work that human employees do now.
How will this former employee get money to live? How can she/he pay the rent?

Off-topic, but you could say that warehouse robots and military robots are also not about our "immortality or extinction".


2
The rest / Re: Good music
« on: Today at 08:12:12 AM »
When this song plays, I always turn up the volume. Just a very nice and easy song.

Rod McKuen - Amor, Amor (1977)
(2m57)

3
The "Sin of Wealth". Interesting article Sig.
Good posts by Steve, gerontocrat and interstitial imo.

I am not really knowledgeable about 'magical' Finance (i.e. the rich people's world), but this is strange to me:
"Money is an IOU on goods and services."

I think this is incorrect.
How is trillions of money-printing by central banks in any way an IOU on goods and services? It comes out of thin air.

The speculative 'market' also makes
A house as a good has not the value of the bricks and mortar, but a speculative market-pricing. If it gets more expensive, how is that extra money in any way an IOU on goods and services?

+
I'd say that the sin of wealth is not just *wasting resources on yourself*, but also *withholding capital from society by storing enormous amounts in off-shore accounts*. Dead capital, extracted from the exploited poor and nature.

--

A thought on economic production:
All the construction work going on in large mansions for e.g. the creation of a 'new' garden, a new interior decoration or a billiard room is non-productive work. It is non-production and a waste of labour and materials.
Production would mean building a house for people who have no house.

4
Since this is about energy transition and consumption, it fits here as well.  This is very IMPORTANT imo.

World's richest 1% cause double CO2 emissions of poorest 50%, says Oxfam
Charity says world’s fast-shrinking carbon budget should be used to improve lot of poorest

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/sep/21/worlds-richest-1-cause-double-co2-emissions-of-poorest-50-says-oxfam
  by Fiona Harvey

 Excerpts: (bolding by me)

The wealthiest 1% of the world’s population were responsible for the emission of more than twice as much carbon dioxide as the poorer half of the world from 1990 to 2015, according to new research.

Carbon dioxide emissions rose by 60% over the 25-year period, but the increase in emissions from the richest 1% was three times greater than the increase in emissions from the poorest half.

The report, compiled by Oxfam and the Stockholm Environment Institute, warned that rampant overconsumption and the rich world’s addiction to high-carbon transport are exhausting the world’s “carbon budget”.

Such a concentration of carbon emissions in the hands of the rich means that despite taking the world to the brink of climate catastrophe, through burning fossil fuels, we have still failed to improve the lives of billions, said Tim Gore, head of policy, advocacy and research at Oxfam International.

The global carbon budget has been squandered to expand the consumption of the already rich, rather than to improve humanity,” he told the Guardian. “A finite amount of carbon can be added to the atmosphere if we want to avoid the worst impacts of the climate crisis. We need to ensure that carbon is used for the best.”


The richest 10% of the global population, comprising about 630 million people, were responsible for about 52% of global emissions over the 25-year period, the study showed.

Globally, the richest 10% are those with incomes above about $35,000 (£27,000) a year, and the richest 1% are people earning more than about $100,000.

..a finite carbon budget of how much carbon dioxide it is safe to produce, which scientists warn will be exhausted within a decade at current rates.

Oxfam argues that continuing to allow the rich world to emit vastly more than those in poverty is unfair. While the world moves towards renewable energy and phases out fossil fuels, any emissions that continue to be necessary during the transition would be better used in trying to improve poor people’s access to basic amenities.

The best possible, morally defensible purpose is for all humanity to live a decent life, but [the carbon budget] has been used up by the already rich, in getting richer,

5
World's richest 1% cause double CO2 emissions of poorest 50%, says Oxfam
Charity says world’s fast-shrinking carbon budget should be used to improve lot of poorest

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/sep/21/worlds-richest-1-cause-double-co2-emissions-of-poorest-50-says-oxfam
  by Fiona Harvey

 Excerpts: (bolding by me)

The wealthiest 1% of the world’s population were responsible for the emission of more than twice as much carbon dioxide as the poorer half of the world from 1990 to 2015, according to new research.

Carbon dioxide emissions rose by 60% over the 25-year period, but the increase in emissions from the richest 1% was three times greater than the increase in emissions from the poorest half.

The report, compiled by Oxfam and the Stockholm Environment Institute, warned that rampant overconsumption and the rich world’s addiction to high-carbon transport are exhausting the world’s “carbon budget”.

Such a concentration of carbon emissions in the hands of the rich means that despite taking the world to the brink of climate catastrophe, through burning fossil fuels, we have still failed to improve the lives of billions, said Tim Gore, head of policy, advocacy and research at Oxfam International.

The global carbon budget has been squandered to expand the consumption of the already rich, rather than to improve humanity,” he told the Guardian. “A finite amount of carbon can be added to the atmosphere if we want to avoid the worst impacts of the climate crisis. We need to ensure that carbon is used for the best.”


The richest 10% of the global population, comprising about 630 million people, were responsible for about 52% of global emissions over the 25-year period, the study showed.

Globally, the richest 10% are those with incomes above about $35,000 (£27,000) a year, and the richest 1% are people earning more than about $100,000.

..a finite carbon budget of how much carbon dioxide it is safe to produce, which scientists warn will be exhausted within a decade at current rates.

Oxfam argues that continuing to allow the rich world to emit vastly more than those in poverty is unfair. While the world moves towards renewable energy and phases out fossil fuels, any emissions that continue to be necessary during the transition would be better used in trying to improve poor people’s access to basic amenities.

The best possible, morally defensible purpose is for all humanity to live a decent life, but [the carbon budget] has been used up by the already rich, in getting richer,

6
Walking the walk / Re: Gardening
« on: September 20, 2020, 03:55:15 PM »
Thanks etienne and kassy for your advice. Most welcome.

7
Walking the walk / Re: Gardening
« on: September 20, 2020, 08:39:48 AM »
Thanks guys, that makes good sense. I'll try to think of some way to make several compost containers because I don't want to spend more money on this. It has been very interesting and I've learned a lot of important things from gardening, but I have made enough expenditures already and I've put some 'red tape' on this budget.

Luckily I have harvest from two auto flowering cannabis plants on my balcony. I'm already smoking it for a week and have enough for 10 more weeks it seems. To me that means some 400 euro saved, but I don't have that money yet. Many thanks to because for helping me out through the growing season.
The remaining (large) cannabis plant on my balcony has entered the flowering stage and looks alright. Perhaps even more valuable harvest in 8 weeks' time. Looking forward to smoking that stuff.

--

Interesting etienne. I wonder what kind of office it was :).
I will look into that but I don't have a garden and I don't know what to do with excess compost. I would want to save it for next growing season. Do I need to buy a special worm-composter, or can I put the worms into my little kitchen compost container? The worms might get bored.

El Cid, is it not feasible to get good compost from a smaller volume than 1m³ ?
It's far too large to have in my apartment, and I don't have a lot of organic material left over to get to that size. The small one (15x17x25 cm) in my kitchen has not filled up after several months of receiving left overs, even with adding many leaves from the cannabis plants. Every time I put something in, I can push it down, and the bottom feels warm to the touch.
From experience I know that there'll be fertile fluids down under. Is it a good idea to put a faucet in to tap the fluid?

8
The rest / Re: George Floyd murder and blowback
« on: September 19, 2020, 05:49:10 PM »
Tom, were blumenkraft still here, he would go completely medieval on you for that post. And rightly so imo.

9
Consequences / Re: Hurricane Season 2020
« on: September 19, 2020, 05:47:24 PM »
Klingon would be nice. Or runes. Or pictures. Or letter + digit. :)

10
Arctic sea ice / Re: The 2020 melting season
« on: September 19, 2020, 05:45:03 PM »
Thanks OffTheGrid.
If hycom is correct, and I must say that hycom's thickness graphs are a lot more likely than PIOMASS imo even with changed methods, then indeed a new record low volume is set. As is quite definitely expected by me after such an extreme melt season. Not very scientific of me of course but we do not have good 'sensors' regarding the arctic sea ice. There's a lot unknown and it's an extremely important piece of the planet, being a 'tipping point'. A couple of submarines would be nice. Dear Mr.Wadhams, do you still have some contacts there?

11
The forum / Re: Forum Decorum
« on: September 19, 2020, 05:36:14 PM »
Are you?

12
Walking the walk / Re: Gardening
« on: September 19, 2020, 05:29:35 PM »
Thanks Latent.
That's what I would do, but I'd like to know if this is the same thing that people do with 1m³ compost.
Sorry that my question was not that clear.
I wonder how compost from larger compost heaps get used. How do they do it? I guess that I can look it up but I like interaction with people :)

13
The rest / Re: George Floyd murder and blowback
« on: September 19, 2020, 12:48:27 PM »
I don't pretend to know all the trustworthy sources but before posting this specific article in this specific thread, you should check a bit more and realise what it is doing; what I described above.
It's trying to get the police off the hook. "Look over there". Changing the context and therefore the seriousness of what happened in the light of U.S.A. police using excessive voilence and deathly violence disproportionally on just your black/brown skinned fellow 'americans'. It is paramount that that behaviour stops and is highlighted every time. Not played down and victim-blaming.
The Guardian would never post an article like that.

14
Walking the walk / Re: Gardening
« on: September 19, 2020, 12:08:42 PM »
I have a question about composting.

There's this little compost container in my kitchen that's filling up but never seems full. Always room to put new stuff in (at my pace of consumption).
The lower half of the container is warmer than the air in my house, so I expect very nice compost in that part.

Now the question: How do I get that ready compost out to use it?

I could remove the container's top half but that is very messy. How do you do it?

15
Arctic sea ice / Re: MOSAiC news
« on: September 19, 2020, 12:00:28 PM »
Makes mostly sense to me,  a different style of writing, but then.. I am a smoker :)
I have been thinking about submarine landslides. Also to try to understand the north-east Greenland strangeness.

16
The forum / Re: Forum Decorum
« on: September 19, 2020, 08:10:37 AM »
Thanks oren. I have a 'thick skin' and recognize when someone capitulates :).

Grandul,
Serious questions about the 0Kg CO₂ and other personal conumptions etc. will be gladly answered. Note: These zero emissions are just my personal direct emissions. Re: fake, you have no idea of the amount of discipline and sacrifices by me to be able to be a good example for others and to live with my conscience. I have to be pure otherwise I have no base to stand on. "Full honesty" didn't fit on that line.

-----
wili,
I am not a native English speaker, and may easily have made an error.

I was not addressing gerontocrat in my post above whilst Steve did address ralfy in his post. To me, that's the difference.

Let me explain what I mean:
Addressing someone who's standing next to you, in the third person, in stead of directly addressing the person, is in my view disrespectful.
If Steve was not in a discussion with ralfy, then it is different. Then it is like talking about someone who isn't present.
I see a clear difference but do you see it too?
If I'm wrong with my interpretation, please explain it so that I may improve my English language skills.

-

"ribbing"
Learned a new word already, thank you wili :).

17
The rest / Re: George Floyd murder and blowback
« on: September 19, 2020, 06:41:42 AM »
Tom, this "very different light" is an attempt to play down the callous police violence.
Don't you see how it is doing that?
It is the same kind of "different light" that Pres.Trump shines on Portland; "it's the black protesters who loot and riot". Which in reality is the other way around; it were the federal agents and white supremacists.
Do you see what's being done?
Fighting that pattern of iies and obfuscation is one of the reasons for this thread.

Please do not post 'volatile' stuff without checking against other (trusted) sources because what you posted might be very insulting and painful for the e.g. mother of George Floyd. Focussing in this case on Fentanyl in stead of on the police violence is a racist thing to do.

18
The forum / Re: Forum Decorum
« on: September 18, 2020, 07:17:17 PM »
gerontocrat gave his view on the news source. I found his post very interesting. It is not always the cold hard data that matter.

"Scissors, scissors..."
Are you a hairdresser perchance? ;)

There is a link at the bottom of every post that says "Report to moderator"
That's the one to use if you have complaints. No need to bother us all.

19
Policy and solutions / Re: Tesla glory/failure
« on: September 18, 2020, 06:54:28 PM »
Quote from: NeilT
So you are saying the Tesla just started itself up <snip>

Where does that come from? I haven't said anything of the sort.
"Please clarify" ?? What?

Please react to the matter and stay on topic of the post you're replying to.

--

Thank you for a good reply oren. I agree. But the vulnerability to software hacking and then doing a terrorist attack or kidnapping remains.

20
Consequences / Re: The Holocene Extinction
« on: September 18, 2020, 06:29:46 PM »
For decades David Attenborough delighted millions with tales of life on Earth. But now the broadcaster wants us to face up to the state of the planet
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/sep/18/dont-look-away-now-are-viewers-finally-ready-for-the-truth-about-nature-aoe
  by Patrick Greenfield

&

(51m44)

21
Consequences / Re: COVID-19
« on: September 18, 2020, 05:14:37 PM »
I see that in Italy and in the U.K., there is a U-shaped recovery of the virus.

22
Policy and solutions / Re: Tesla glory/failure
« on: September 18, 2020, 05:04:03 PM »
Quote from: NeilT
"Stupid is as stupid does."
That's your only comment on what Vox posted? Confirmation bias much?

NeilT, a self-driving Tesla car on the wrong side of the road without a driver? Have you read that?
And one doing 150km/h, i.e. 40 km/h too fast on auto pilot with the driver sleeping?
Clearly this is not acceptable self-driving software from a safety viewpoint. A car remains a >1000kg high speed potential weapon of mass destruction. With such a driver-less car and some software tweaks, you could easily do a terrorist attack without danger to yourself.

23
Arctic sea ice / Re: The 2020/2021 freezing season
« on: September 18, 2020, 04:53:56 PM »
Bravo Samuel, beautiful. Thanks for all your efforts! :)
What ana says.

24
Arctic sea ice / Re: The 2020 melting season
« on: September 18, 2020, 04:48:55 PM »
In the same metaphore:
The symptoms are worsening fast. I fear the patient is already in the terminal phase ;)
(dunno what "AA" means)

What will next year bring? I can't wait to see the patient die.

The continued living of this patient is frustrating climate action because it takes too long for the population at large to unmistakenly see clear consequences and get really fearfull. In an existential emergency one should be fearful if one wants to live.
The sooner we 'stop', the better for life on Earth. At least for the children's future.
The emergency signs were flashing in our eyes. Bye bye.

25
The rest / Re: George Floyd murder and blowback
« on: September 18, 2020, 04:36:50 PM »
Thanks for responding to Tom, Steve.
Tom, didn't you have any seconds thoughts when you posted that? You seem an intelligent man who wants to be a good human.

26
The rest / Re: Good music
« on: September 18, 2020, 04:32:24 PM »
Nice rhythm, nice melody, nice girl choir. I can dance and whistle to this (not at the same time).

Donnie Brooks - Mission Bell (1960)
(2m25)

27
Consequences / Re: The Climatic Effects of a Blue Ocean Event
« on: September 18, 2020, 07:14:58 AM »
Beautiful gerontocrat. That gives much information, thank you.

28
Consequences / Re: Floods
« on: September 17, 2020, 05:50:34 PM »
I think you live in north-west Florida Tor. There's flooding in Florida because of 'stalled' tropical storm Sally. Are you okay?

29
Arctic sea ice / Re: The 2020 melting season
« on: September 17, 2020, 04:37:18 PM »
That's a great visual uniquorn. You succeeded imo. Perhaps a different colour scheme, but that's a personal taste.

A storm is still not out of the question, to extend the melting season.

30
Consequences / Re: COVID-19
« on: September 17, 2020, 04:30:02 PM »
Thanks for that SH.

31
The forum / Re: Forum Decorum
« on: September 17, 2020, 11:34:11 AM »
Welcome back blu_ice :).

In my view it is possible to leave without deleting ones account: Just stop posting.
Perhaps deleting is a form of self-help in ones discipline; to not be able to post anymore.

32
Policy and solutions / Re: Renewable Energy Transition and Consumption
« on: September 17, 2020, 11:05:07 AM »
Great to read here from someone with more realism about our current situation and future.
Thanks ralfy for not talking from inside the rich consumers' dream. And thanks for taking all people into account.

To add:
Money may feel like a magical power, but it doesn't mean anything in reality. The physical boundaries are closing in and no amount of money can make them go away.

33
The rest / Re: Good music
« on: September 17, 2020, 10:46:12 AM »
Relaxt & sunshiny music

Imperials - Who's Gonna Love Me (1977)
(3m34)

34
Consequences / Re: Weird Weather and anecdotal stories about climate change
« on: September 16, 2020, 04:27:22 PM »
You probably mean "nothing changes in (civilisation-) human behaviour" or somesuch?

Here cold records and hot records were broken in July and now in September. Very weird.
Climate change is especially seen in the winter months which are already heated up ca. +3°C this year, and more turbulence; higher average wind force, faster changes in wind direction and different wind direction distribution. This will be one hell of a climate transition. Omegad.
This is in the north of the Netherlands, 53°N.

I think your observations of new 'normals' in weather are spot on. Missing life forms are also part of the new 'normal'.

35
Consequences / Re: The Holocene Extinction
« on: September 15, 2020, 07:27:39 PM »
Thanks vox.
That is one hell of a report! :'(
Mind-boggling consequences for the (near-) future of humans and all other life.
Likely forgotten in a month by policy makers and the public. Am I pessimistic here?

36
The rest / Re: Good music
« on: September 15, 2020, 07:12:11 PM »
Inspired by kassy's miles :)

The Who - I Can See For Miles (1967)
(3m58)

37
Policy and solutions / Re: Renewable Energy Transition and Consumption
« on: September 15, 2020, 06:06:56 PM »
This interview with Prof. Kevin Anderson provides a great view. It encompasses several subjects but renewable energy transition and consumption are major items.
Please watch.

(27m11)

38
The rest / Re: Archaeology/Paleontology news
« on: September 15, 2020, 05:59:20 PM »
There will be academics who will go wild at the idea of getting its DNA and growing a clone via a live female bear.

39
The politics / Re: Brexit...
« on: September 15, 2020, 05:52:21 PM »
"The nation" consists of voters who are mostly in the news/info bubble of the billionaire press/media. That news/info makes their believe systems; where to focus on; their world view. These voters know no better because there is no independent outside 'alternative world view' source anymore that reaches them. The BBC today is not the BBC of old.
The metaphorical Pied Piper is Rupert Murdoch and his ilk. Australia has the same problem.

40
The rest / Re: George Floyd murder and blowback
« on: September 14, 2020, 10:05:31 AM »
Why did police stop and search Bianca Williams and Ricardo Dos Santos?
Stop and search of two athletes in London renews concerns about police powers

https://www.theguardian.com/law/2020/jul/06/why-did-police-stop-and-search-bianca-williams-and-ricardo-dos-santos
  by Jamie Grierson

Excerpts:

What happened?

Williams and her partner, Dos Santos, were stopped as they were driving a Mercedes in Maida Vale on Saturday.

Video of the incident, posted by Linford Christie on Twitter, showed officers telling Dos Santos and Williams, who were travelling with their three-month-old son, they were going to be searched. Williams is heard repeatedly saying: “My son is in the car.”

Williams, 26, a European and Commonwealth relay gold medallist, and Dos Santos, 25, a Portuguese 400m record holder, have said they fear they were targeted because they are black.


..Following a search of the vehicle, the man and the woman, nothing was found. No arrests were made and the occupants were allowed on their way.



Are they able to search vehicles without suspicion any offence has taken place?

The police can search people or vehicles without suspicion under a stop and search power known as section 60. A section 60 is a power which allows police officers to stop and search anyone in a specific area without needing to have reasonable grounds.

But this did not apply in the case of Williams and Dos Santos.

Under the Road Traffic Act, police officers can stop vehicles without any grounds but are unable to search the vehicles. They are only able to ask questions of the driver and request licence details.


Stop and search powers are used disproportionately against people from BAME backgrounds, particularly black men.

In England and Wales, black men are 10 times more likely to be stopped and searched than white men. In some force areas, this is higher: police in Dorset are 25 times more likely to search black men than white men.

41
The rest / Re: George Floyd murder and blowback
« on: September 14, 2020, 06:58:28 AM »
Georgia deputy filmed punching Black man in front of children is fired
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/sep/13/georgia-deputy-punching-black-man-traffic-stop-roderick-walker
  by Associated Press in Atlanta, Georgia


(59s)


 Excerpts:
Roderick Walker, 26, was arrested and beaten on Friday, after deputies pulled over the vehicle he was riding in with his girlfriend, their five-month-old child and his stepson for an alleged broken taillight, attorney Shean William said on Sunday.

The deputies asked for identification, Williams said, then demanded Walker get out of the vehicle when he questioned why they needed it since he wasn’t driving.

The subsequent arrest, captured on video by a bystander and shared widely, shows two deputies on top of Walker, one repeatedly punching him. Walker’s girlfriend screams and tells the deputies Walker said he can’t breathe. A child in the vehicle yells: “Daddy.”

As Walker is handcuffed, the deputy who punched him tells the bystander Walker bit him. Williams said his client denies biting the deputy. Walker was trying to survive and lost consciousness at least twice during the beating, Williams said. A photo of Walker taken in jail showed a welt under his left eye.

“My reaction to the video is that it just shows unfortunately another incident where an African American male’s civil rights have been violated by people and officers and law enforcement who have the duty first to protect and serve,” Williams said.

43
Science / Re: Where are we now in CO2e , which pathway are we on?
« on: September 14, 2020, 05:06:52 AM »
Thank you for letting it stand, moderator kassy.

"280 is moot if we cannot even get close to 350."
Indeed. It's completely academic.

44
Consequences / Re: COVID-19
« on: September 13, 2020, 06:35:42 PM »
You have not really given an answer imo. Just text and 'look over there'. "Apparently we should"?

45
Science / Re: Where are we now in CO2e , which pathway are we on?
« on: September 13, 2020, 06:25:22 PM »
Thank you wili. Beautiful. :)

46
Consequences / Re: Wildfires
« on: September 13, 2020, 08:53:47 AM »
https://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2020/sep/12/california-governor-we-are-in-the-midst-of-a-climate-emergency-video

"The California governor, Gavin Newsom, said ‘this is not a world that anyone should be experiencing’ as he surveyed charred mountain terrain devastated by wildfires. ‘If you do not believe in science, I hope you believe in observed evidence,’ he added. More than 68,000 people are under evacuation orders in California where the largest fire in state history has burned over 740,000 acres in the Mendocino National forest"

(1m40)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=100&v=gFanSRYGvpk

47
Science / Re: Where are we now in CO2e , which pathway are we on?
« on: September 13, 2020, 07:39:08 AM »
Quote from: wdmn
Back on this old nonsense eh nanning?
Nanning's logic -- as has been discussed elsewhere ad nauseam -- presumes

That's not my logic you describe wdmn. That's your logic projected onto me.
I won't react further to your unkind words and charges.
Main point is: high technology comes with high responsibility and we are not alone on this planet and this planet is not ours to spoil.

edit: added quotes

48
Science / Re: Where are we now in CO2e , which pathway are we on?
« on: September 12, 2020, 07:08:27 PM »
280 ppm is the pre-industrial level. Reaching that means returning to nature's original track. That should be the goal. To undo the damage we've done.

49
Arctic sea ice / Re: Arctic Ocean salinity, temperature and waves
« on: September 12, 2020, 06:57:09 PM »
Great animations you've provided uniquorn, thank you. The first link is just an image of the colour scale if I open it.

50
Consequences / Re: Wildfires
« on: September 12, 2020, 06:50:12 PM »
Thanks for that Rodius.

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