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Messages - zenith

Pages: [1] 2
1
Policy and solutions / Re: Renewable Energy Transition and Consumption
« on: February 02, 2021, 09:26:10 PM »
Thank you ralfy! At least ralfy (and nanning) comprehend something approximating reality.

Limits Revisited—A review of the limits to growth debate. A report to the All-Party Parliamentary Group on LImits to Growth.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/332655753_Limits_Revisited-A_review_of_the_limits_to_growth_debate_A_report_to_the_All-Party_Parliamentary_Group_on_LImits_to_Growth

Relying solely on a technological fix is extremely dangerous as it's bound to fail.

2
Policy and solutions / Re: Renewable Energy
« on: February 02, 2021, 07:41:50 PM »

3
Policy and solutions / Re: Renewable Energy
« on: February 01, 2021, 06:35:27 PM »
@BeeKnees
You still refuse to understand that baseload is demand. Yes, everything in any energy discussion is subsidized and manipulated, including green energy. Demand is still demand, a factory gets the juice it needs to operate or it closes. Cities of 10, 20, 30 million people suck up massive amounts of energy to operate, they need a steady supply, the baseload, along with peak loads and any other loads. Why is this so difficult to comprehend? I can't help but notice I've fallen into an echo-chamber where anything can mean whatever is desired.

As for the rest of your assertions, I'm reminded of Paul Kingsnorth.
https://orionmagazine.org/article/dark-ecology/

4
Policy and solutions / Re: Renewable Energy
« on: February 01, 2021, 05:53:43 PM »
He was suggesting that baseload demand was tied to the fossil fuel industry, I was making the point that it's not about the source of generation.

To suggest that intermittent sources can't provide the steady supply of juice that civilization demands isn't denial, it's fact. That's why storage capacity is so talked about. I get the impression that many here are in denial of the scope and SCALE required.

If I had known using the word baseload was so loaded I would have never used it. holy moly.

5
Policy and solutions / Re: Renewable Energy
« on: February 01, 2021, 02:21:15 AM »
in other words scale, and the scale is mega massive.

6
Policy and solutions / Re: Renewable Energy
« on: February 01, 2021, 12:36:30 AM »
Baseload demand is a hurdle so long as intermittent renewables can't provide the necessary power to meet demand. Imagine brown-outs or black-outs and how industry, never mind individuals, would cope with that on a regular basis.

I chose BC because the terminology for those that manage the power grid remains relevant. Base load demand is a real thing regardless of how the electrons are generated. You want to make it about something it's not. Fossil fuels remain the primary source of electrical generation for a reason: people demand power at the flip of a switch. 

7
Policy and solutions / Re: Renewable Energy
« on: January 31, 2021, 11:51:20 PM »
What debate? You don't understand the concept of baseload demand. Furthermore you insist on an ideological physics-in-a-box result for the world, which is absurd.

I live in British Columbia, Canada and our baseload and every other load is generated by hydro-power. If I went to the people that manage our energy grid they would talk in term of baseloads and peak loads, these aren't political terms. I don't live in some small subsection of Australia that may, or may not, be able to cope with baseloads and peak loads based on intermittent sources of generation. 

Again, when/if storage capacity from intermittent sources of electrical generation is realized then all loads/demands would be covered for large parts of the world.

8
Policy and solutions / Re: Renewable Energy
« on: January 31, 2021, 11:29:33 PM »
i give up. paiiin. more paaiin. uhhh.

9
Policy and solutions / Re: Renewable Energy
« on: January 31, 2021, 10:56:59 PM »
@BeeKnees
You're a total headache as you don't understand the basic terminology you're using and you're creating arguments where there are none based on your ideological blinkers and the propaganda you consume.
https://ecos.csiro.au/baseload-power/

On top of that invoking Denmark as some sort of world model is useless as Denmark is a unique case that's irreproducible in the vast majority of the world.

10
Policy and solutions / Re: Renewable Energy
« on: January 31, 2021, 10:19:55 PM »
@BeeKnees

Baseload is demand, regardless of generation. Our baseload demands per capita have roughly doubled since the 1960's. Peaks and troughs have gone crazy for all sorts of reasons related to the ways we're consuming energy, it's become a nightmare to manage apparently. You want to make baseload something it's not.

11
Policy and solutions / Re: Tesla glory/failure
« on: January 31, 2021, 10:14:43 PM »
That video is all about Musk hype about a plane. Nevertheless, the battery claims that are explored are relevant across the transport sector. It's a cautionary tale.

12
Policy and solutions / Re: Tesla glory/failure
« on: January 31, 2021, 09:15:47 PM »
It's not as though I stuck it in the electric cars thread, it seemed entirely appropriate in the Tesla glory/failure thread. Regardless, the battery education is worth the price of admission. Particularly what's discussed beginning @ 17 mins. in.

13
Policy and solutions / Re: Renewable Energy
« on: January 31, 2021, 06:33:02 PM »
@BeeKnees
When I initially mentioned baseload I said - "Primary sources are baseload providers and renewables aren't there without increased efficiency and storage capacity."

When/if storage capacity is achieved it will provide the baseload required to operate an energy grid.


14
Policy and solutions / Re: Aviation
« on: January 31, 2021, 06:13:29 PM »
Batteries are much discussed in the video.

15
Policy and solutions / Re: Renewable Energy
« on: January 31, 2021, 06:06:05 AM »
"While Baseload Power is a social fiction, it is still grounded in physical reality in power generation."

wtf are we doing with language? Word games don't change reality. This is insanity, you've gone insane and you're insisting I go with you but I refuse. This isn't a political issue it's scientific fact.

16
Policy and solutions / Re: Aviation
« on: January 31, 2021, 05:58:12 AM »
How is talking about a Tesla plane in the Tesla thread off topic?

I read the article and the last sentence says it all: "The electric aviation race will be as much against bankruptcy as rivals."

We've heard about plenty of things over the years that were going to happen and change the world that are filed in the "where are they now" bin.

As for your other question about landing weights of aircraft:
Why do airplanes dump fuel?
https://www.flightradar24.com/blog/why-do-airplanes-dump-fuel/

"The reason to dump fuel is simple: to drop weight. Any given aircraft has a Maximum Landing Weight (MLW) at which it can land, and in most cases that weight is lower than its Maximum Takeoff Weight (MTOW). So if an airplane has to return to its departure airport shortly after takeoff – especially when it’s loaded up with fuel for an 11-hour flight like London to Los Angeles – it will likely need to reduce weight in order to land."

17
Policy and solutions / Re: Tesla glory/failure
« on: January 31, 2021, 01:15:50 AM »
He doesn't address it in this video but somebody in the comments asked a pertinent question: how do you land a plane with all this battery weight onboard? We're truly living in mad times.


18
Policy and solutions / Re: Renewable Energy
« on: January 31, 2021, 12:58:30 AM »
Baseload is based on demand. There are peaks and troughs but the baseload remains. Something consistent, predictable and under our control has to deliver.

This is the basic problem, people think words can mean whatever they want them to mean, they don't.

This isn't a fairy tale where you can interpret everything according to your wishes. We're talking about science and realties.

We really are living in lala land in almost every aspect regarding 'reality'. Ape chatter isn't realistic, no matter how much it's repeated. Let's not mention national debts.

19
Policy and solutions / Re: Renewable Energy
« on: January 31, 2021, 12:16:12 AM »
Correct, natural gas replacing coal is energy decarbonization according to the scientific definition Smil uses. Base loads are base loads and they need to be met. Primary sources are baseload providers and renewables aren't there without increased efficiency and storage capacity.

Hydro-power is where it's at where I live, and it also provides base load for the US west coast too, like Manitoba does for the central plains States, and Quebec for the Eastern States.

There are places in B.C. where solar panels or wind could make sense but where I live it would be redundant and extremely inefficient compared to the hydro that was built decades ago. Useful on a personnel scale when the power goes out though, but meh. Electric cars are fine in the lower mainland/ van. island of B.C. but rather useless up north as the batteries don't perform. It's not going to happen. Limits, there are limits, even though we're hydro-powered.

20
Policy and solutions / Re: Renewable Energy
« on: January 30, 2021, 10:17:24 PM »
We currently have a new mega dam being built in B.C., which is one of the few places on the planet that is 100% hydro-powered, meaning our primary source is turbine generation. This latest dam is going to flood some of the best northern agricultural land in the province, perhaps the world. Why? To provide for our wasteful needs and to sell power to the US, down to California, so they can feel good about driving their Teslas while dreaming that the primary source of the electricity they're consuming comes from the solar panels on their roof.
https://www.wildernesscommittee.org/sitec

It's turned into a complete "green" boondoggle.
https://vancouversun.com/opinion/vaughn-palmer-dam-experts-hired-to-determine-if-site-c-can-be-completed-safely

21
Policy and solutions / Re: Renewable Energy
« on: January 30, 2021, 09:49:41 PM »
In other words you don't like, or understand, Smil's comprehensive analysis based on science and the realities that our civilization is built upon. It's really all about bang for buck in energy conversion to power DEMANDS. This isn't an ideological argument, it's a scientific argument. There are primary drivers that power this civilization: fact. period. We have been decarbonizing our energy sources towards those that pack more punch: fact. period. Our energy DEMANDS (extremely wasteful) are met by these sources of power that our current civilization (extremely wasteful) relies on to fulfill our DEMANDS, including for the production of renewable energy. This isn't a video game where the whole planet suddenly levels up. People weren't scientifically idiotic and suddenly everything has changed because the word legacy is invoked as some sort of denigrating magic spell. There are scientific/physical realities (even though physics can't define/understand physical).

22
Policy and solutions / Re: Renewable Energy
« on: January 29, 2021, 10:27:43 PM »
Word Games don't change realities. Smil is not your enemy.

There are so many mundane technological innovations, like building better insulated houses/buildings, that have yet to be adopted and were entirely doable yesterday.

23
Policy and solutions / Re: Renewable Energy
« on: January 29, 2021, 08:35:51 PM »
People should read the Smil paper that Ken posted as it gives a brief summary of the scale and complexity transforming our energy demands on a global scale will entail. https://riviste.fupress.net/index.php/subs/article/view/700

Smil is not your enemy. While we dream about all this sexy innovation there are very real things we could be doing to reduce waste and absurd consumption. These are largely based on changing our economic system, priorities and lifestyles and that is beyond the pale. Strip industry of all subsidies and let's find out the true cost of things. Make planned obsolescence illegal. People want their cake and to eat it too. Good luck. Tick-tock goes the clock on our extinction. War is more imaginable than true change. The war machine and technological innovation go hand in hand, like the space race.

24
Policy and solutions / Re: Renewable Energy
« on: January 29, 2021, 06:58:00 PM »
wow, your ideological filter leads to reading comprehension difficulties. Any honest actor will see through your gish gallop and I'm not going to waste my time unravelling the mess you just made.

25
Policy and solutions / Re: Renewable Energy
« on: January 29, 2021, 05:41:35 PM »
@Richard Rathbone
Bill Gates is Smil's biggest fan until Smil mentions limits, that's verboten according to the ruling "philosophy". Smil wrote that book as a response to the extraordinary claims of Kurzweil et al.

@wili
Well that settles that. Who has the 'real' data? Chinese coal power may be going down as part of their overall energy mix but their coal capacity is still increasing. They're also building coal plants in other countries.

@Ken Feldman
When you can give Smil, or anyone, the true cost of the coke that went into making the steel required for the industrial processes for renewables, and the true cost of the diesel required for those processes, like mining and transport, or the true cost of the petroleum in the wind blades then you'd get a more accurate answer. All of it is subsidized so nobody knows the true cost, as I already said.

"To suggest that burning coal is a method of decarbonization is preposterous.  That's what Smil does."
That's not Smil's argument. You could always try reading. I'm done. http://vaclavsmil.com/


26
Policy and solutions / Re: Renewable Energy
« on: January 27, 2021, 09:27:04 PM »
@Ken Feldman

To suggest that Vaclav Smil doesn't understand the carbon cycle is beyond absurd. You'll find a way to dismiss him out of hand one way or another though. You're dismissing one of the, if not the, pre-eminent scientific scholars regarding energy transitions on the planet with inane arguments, fyi.

27
Policy and solutions / Re: Renewable Energy
« on: January 27, 2021, 08:53:19 PM »
@interstitial

I'm not a climate denier, nor is Smil.
I'm getting a faith based religious vibe going on in this thread, as opposed to a sceptical science based mindset. You'll need to look elsewhere for a heretic to burn.

If somebody posts articles about China's "renewable" energy builds they should off-set that with all the recent coal fired development, that will be around for decades, and all the new coal plants being built.

We don't live in the realm of angels, we live in a messy material world. Simple narratives are appealing though.


28
Policy and solutions / Re: Renewable Energy
« on: January 27, 2021, 05:12:01 PM »
@Ken Feldman

Talking about any form of energy in cost ($) terms is pointless as it's all subsidized a million different ways and nobody knows the actual cost of any of it. Smil's arguments are written in academic books that are easily available for you to read and they go far beyond "cost".

You didn't understand your own statement about batteries. You were talking about future batteries, not current batteries, and if batteries ever packed enough power for commercial flight, for ex., they would be bombs waiting for detonation.

Yes, gas burns, or erupts in an explosive fireball even and then it's over. You know there's a difference with battery fires.

29
The politics / Re: The Alt Right
« on: January 27, 2021, 04:10:36 PM »
You're operating under the false assumption that you understand what Judaism is about. If you won't read I can't help you.
https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/756399/jewish/The-613-Commandments-Mitzvot.htm
look up amalek on youtube to hear how that's interpreted.

"Christianity" is an absolute mess.

Welcome to the alt-right... "all the world is a stage..."

30
Policy and solutions / Re: Renewable Energy
« on: January 26, 2021, 11:52:22 PM »
It tells you in big bold letters at the top of the page that's per kg.

Vaclav Smil isn't against renewable energy, he lays out his argument(s) extremely comprehensibly and comprehensively.

31
Policy and solutions / Re: Renewable Energy
« on: January 26, 2021, 11:37:25 PM »
@interstitial
"Solar cells are mostly silicon and aluminum"

Electronic grade silicon (CVD process): 7,590-7,755MJ (2,108,700 to 2,154,900 watt-hours).
https://www.lowtechmagazine.com/what-is-the-embodied-energy-of-materials.html

32
The politics / Re: The Alt Right
« on: January 26, 2021, 11:23:48 PM »
@etienne
I don't know what rock you've been hiding under... https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/17366045-goliath


33
The politics / Re: The Alt Right
« on: January 26, 2021, 10:47:17 PM »
It could be said that the whole global north, global south divide is racist. I'm not interested in in-group out-group tactics and strategies to live my life, but I'm aware of those who are. Both the Sicilian Mafia and the Ndrangheta are criminals as far as I'm concerned. Lions with manes or without manes are all lions to me. If a pride attacks me from the front in daylight or another attacks me in the dark from behind I'm dead either way.

Just because the DPRK has democratic in the name doesn't mean I believe it. 

I'm suggesting that you question your assumptions and do some reading as the day has dawned and there's a pride of lions wandering around in plain sight, and they've grown very bold and arrogant.

34
Policy and solutions / Re: Renewable Energy
« on: January 26, 2021, 10:14:39 PM »
@interstitial

Dr. Vaclav Smil understands he wasted his time writing 44 books as people want to believe what they want to believe. His book on power densities is considered the bible on the subject in some professional circles though.

35
Policy and solutions / Re: Renewable Energy
« on: January 26, 2021, 10:10:49 PM »
 @Ken Feldman
"Batteries are improving and will eventually meet our transport needs, even in aircraft."
If that ever happens, which is unlikely, you're proposing to load up transportation with bombs waiting for detonation in an accident.

As for the rest of your ideological wish list, I'm waiting to grow angel wings to fly out of this insane asylum.

36
The politics / Re: The Alt Right
« on: January 26, 2021, 04:25:38 PM »
@ be cause

You should take down the post that mentions Jacob and Esau too. The only reason you haven't is due to ignorance as to what it's about in Judaism. The guy dressed up as Esau understood what he was doing though.

Tischler was one of a throng of Orthodox Jews who traveled down to Washington, DC, to join mass protests of the election results Wednesday.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/orthodox-jewish-trump-supporters-decry-violence-but-not-movement-that-fueled-it/

Christian Zionists waving Israeli flags, blowing shofars, throngs of orthodox jews - Trump's base that stormed the capitol.

37
The politics / Re: The Alt Right
« on: January 26, 2021, 04:06:04 PM »
You want to talk about the alt-right but don't talk about the main propaganda outlets of the alt-right. That makes sense. That the whole apparatus is run by Zionists can't be mentioned.

Trump’s Legacy in Israel
https://www.newyorker.com/news/dispatch/donald-trumps-legacy-in-israel

Trump’s alignment with Netanyahu has been so total that, ahead of the U.S. election, sixty-three per cent of Israelis supported Trump, and only seventeen per cent supported Joe Biden, according to a November poll by the Israel Democracy Institute. If Israel were a U.S. state, it would be the “reddest state in the Union,” a column in the left-leaning newspaper Haaretz noted.


38
The politics / Re: The Alt Right
« on: January 26, 2021, 03:29:49 PM »
@etienne

You don't understand because you don't read.
https://www.sefaria.org/texts

39
Consequences / Re: Origins of COVID-19
« on: January 26, 2021, 04:25:29 AM »

40
Policy and solutions / Re: Renewable Energy
« on: January 26, 2021, 02:31:47 AM »
Perhaps you should listen to the Vaclav Smil lecture i posted up-thread. In energy terms you're saying that burning twice as much wood as you'd need to burn coal is better. That's going backwards. Trees left living in the earth are still sequestering carbon, this all sounds very convoluted to me. You should listen to that lecture for many reasons.


41
Policy and solutions / Re: Renewable Energy
« on: January 25, 2021, 10:17:55 PM »
@BeeKnees
Cheers. How this sort of thing passes the smell test is beyond me, it'd better to continue burning the coal.
https://ember-climate.org/project/playing-with-fire/

https://ember-climate.org/project/the-burning-question/

@Ken Feldman
That's why I asked. If they captured the carbon and sequestered (CCS) it from burning coal it would even be better as it has more energy density than wood, but that's unlikely to happen.

42
Policy and solutions / Re: Renewable Energy
« on: January 25, 2021, 09:28:56 PM »
@ Ken Feldman

I can't find a breakdown regarding what renewable means. Specifically what percentage is burning wood and garbage? Will N.A. have any forests left in 20 yrs, or not?

43
Consequences / Re: COVID-19
« on: January 25, 2021, 06:01:15 PM »
WEF today. Dr. Fauci is interesting @17 mins. and 32 mins., the rest is meh.

44
The politics / Re: Biden’s Presidency
« on: January 25, 2021, 04:16:31 PM »
Biden hasn't wasted any time.
https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/middle-east/1611293792-us-military-convoy-enters-northeast-syria-report

According to the report, the troops are set to deploy on the nearby oilfields, with Kurdish-controlled eastern Syria rich in energy resources.

45
The politics / Re: Biden’s Presidency
« on: January 25, 2021, 03:54:09 PM »
Israel will be happy. They called Trump King Cyrus, Biden has be called Moses.
https://www.jns.org/opinion/its-time-to-stop-counting-jews-in-the-cabinet/

46
The politics / Re: Biden’s Presidency
« on: January 25, 2021, 03:07:43 PM »
Ranking the Most Influential Democratic Donors in the 2020 Race
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/08/most-influential-democratic-donors-2020-elections.html

follow the money.

47
The politics / Re: The Alt Right
« on: January 25, 2021, 02:51:54 PM »
I appreciated the guy dressed up like Esau, from the story of Jacob and Esau.

Capitol Riot ‘Caveman’ From Brooklyn Arrested After Outing Himself
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/01/capitol-riot-caveman-aaron-mostofsky-of-brooklyn-arrested.html

The Trump-supporting son of a Brooklyn judge who dressed like a caveman to storm the U.S. Capitol last week was arrested in New York on Tuesday, authorities said — and his big mouth did him in.

"Aaron Mostofsky was both filmed and photographed at the attempted coup, donning fur and a tactical vest with “POLICE” written across the chest. Yeshiva World posted videos that appear to show FBI agents outside a Flatbush residence this morning, carrying what seemed to be the same fur getup Mostofsky sported during the riot. Mostofsky’s father is Shlomo Mostofsky, a Kings County Supreme Court judge and a “prominent figure in the Orthodox Jewish community,” as the New York Post put it."

48
The politics / Re: The Trump Presidency
« on: January 25, 2021, 02:47:55 PM »
Correct, he wasn't when he was Trump's financial backer. His wife is still alive.

49
The politics / Re: The Trump Presidency
« on: January 25, 2021, 02:28:40 PM »
He bought King Cyrus.

Sheldon Adelson Is Ready to Buy the Presidency
He just hasn’t decided which Republican candidate to back. Care to make a pitch?
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2015/09/sheldon-adelson-is-ready-to-buy-the-presidency.html

50
The politics / Re: The Trump Presidency
« on: January 25, 2021, 02:23:54 PM »
Trump was the best US president ever...for Israel.

Trump’s Legacy in Israel
https://www.newyorker.com/news/dispatch/donald-trumps-legacy-in-israel

"Trump’s alignment with Netanyahu has been so total that, ahead of the U.S. election, sixty-three per cent of Israelis supported Trump, and only seventeen per cent supported Joe Biden, according to a November poll by the Israel Democracy Institute. If Israel were a U.S. state, it would be the “reddest state in the Union,” a column in the left-leaning newspaper Haaretz noted."

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