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Messages - Bruce Steele

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Policy and solutions / Re: Becoming Vegan.
« on: March 11, 2018, 07:56:21 PM »
I read through the article on Sweden reducing the red meat in their diets. The article also says they have increased meat in their diets by 41% over the last couple decades. Sweden's average meat consumption is 180.4 lbs and 66 lbs. of fish. The US meat consumption is 222 lbs. and their fish consumption is 15lbs. so meat consumption is actually higher in Sweden.
 I am not trying to rationalize the high meat diets of either country and reducing meat is a relatively easy way to reduce your carbon footprint. Growing all your own food is a better way to proceed but if easier is better then by all means reduce the meat in your diet.
 For what it's worth my wife and I have simply quit eatting hamburgers ... They are a ubiquitous part of American lifestyles and not eatting them is both simple and somewhat challenging.

Walking the walk / Re: Gardening
« on: February 27, 2018, 12:12:42 AM »
Clare, I planted a block of corn , a block of beans and sandwiched them between squash plantings, also in blocks.
Fresh vegetables were planted in another area because I needed to be able to dry out the three sisters before I harvested them. It is very important to do a very good job of keeping your corn weed free when they first get started. After they get big enough to start shading the ground things get easier.
 The fresh vegetables need to be kept wet so keeping them separate from the crops that need to be dried out is important if you are trying to produce dent corn and dried beans. You don't want mold on either . It doesn't rain around here in the fall so drying a crop is relatively easy when you shut down the irrigation.
 Thanks for taking an interest in my garden efforts. Every year produces it's own unique challenges.
I put potatoes out and then the weather got cold with several nights down to 25F.  The potatoes seem fine but the new shoots got frozen. They will come back I think. Potatoes are a challenge here because soil temperature above 80 F shut down growth. There isn't a lot of time between the last frost and hot soil temperatures.

Consequences / Re: 2018 ENSO
« on: February 26, 2018, 10:24:43 PM »
The JISAO PDO index has come out + .7 for Jan.  I don't know the significance of four years of monthly consecutive PDO numbers but it is the first time in the JISAO  98 year record that it has done so.
 The kelp ecosystem in Southern and Northern Calif. are extremely  stressed. The  Dungeness crab fishery in Oregon is dealing with Domoic acid closures. Alaskan cod fishery is in trouble .

Walking the walk / Re: Zero-Carbon Farming and Living via the Acorn Path
« on: February 26, 2018, 04:42:11 PM »
Geoff, Thank you for the singing frog farm link. I have shared it around my small circle.
 I wonder if one was to plant and harvest fast growing softwoods and harvest them for compost
 this could satisfy a local source for feeding SOM in a garden like singing frog, or mine. Softwoods could also feed bio char . Martin would like that !
 I serve on a local resources board. A public agency board that helps fund soil and water conservation. There are small amounts of money available with large amounts of paperwork . Most current monies are for larger properties with pasture . They truck in compost and apply to pasture. Better forage results in extra livestock so net gains in SOM are offset with additional methane. Most of the carbon farming in Calif. is following something called the Marin Protocols. They rationalize most of the soil carbon gains... Burning fossil fuels to make and deliver compost is better than putting organic waste into landfills or using manures in compost is better than dairy slurry pits, etc.  These rationalization
are probably correct but I think small farmers that avoided fossil fuel use in the first place and stayed hyper local could demonstrate much better efficiencies in sinking carbon.
 Documenting SOM gains is important. Documenting fossil fuel use ( or lack of use ) in achieving SOM gains is important. I also think it is good to enjoy the challenge and any good farmer has to enjoy seeing soil health improve. With it comes better habitat for soil biota, beneficial insects and bird life.
Beauty is it's own reward. Good food is worth the work it takes.


Walking the walk / Re: Gardening
« on: February 24, 2018, 05:56:00 AM »
I have been enjoying field corn from last years garden. I prepared some called chicos corn. It is dent corn harvested at milk stage, smoked with the husk on . It is then shucked and air dried in the sun.
I also harvested about a hundred lbs. of dent corn dried on the stalk. I have been treating the corn with hydrogenated lime, a process called nixtamalization. The resulting corn is what is used to make tamales and tortillas. I treat the corn, rinse it well, then sun dry it. Once dried I run it through my flour mill to make masa harina. Nixtamal corn makes niacin more available and adds calcium. It also smells very good and makes the resulting corn flour a darker yellow.  It also reduces mycotoxins . It is also softer and easier to run through the mill.
My next experiment will be hominy, corn treated with lye. Kinda scary.
Potatoes are in the ground and the garden cover crop is getting plowed in . Spring is around the corner
and I still have lots of bean and corn from last years zero fossil fuel garden. I can only run the tractor on very warm days because the piggy bio needs to be warmer than 50F . 

Consequences / Re: Near Term Human Extinction
« on: February 24, 2018, 05:04:11 AM »
Terry, There are millions of other people following traditional farming traditions , I just don't know them. We here tend to judge humanities challenges to a civilization as we know it  Those people far enough separated from our ideas of civilization are also somewhat protected from issues like radiation
It all comes down to how fast collapse happens and slow collapse is one version of our collective human future. Isolated humans will have to contend with climate change but they have the advantage of living a lifestyle that doesn't freak out when challenged by hard times. They aren't going to break out their stockpile of AK-47s and go on a rampage. I however will be toast if LA runs out of food. I do know several dozens of remote springs in the back country and I have a good enough grip on survival techniques to feed a small group of humans for awhile but my wife says she will never take that option.
If I can be any service to future generations I can only offer up my knowledge in a slow collapse scenario.
 Fast collapse is just going to be too damn chaotic to be much help.
 For now I am enjoying the challenges of farming without fossil fuels. I think I can stretch last years stored food well into spring and summer. I already have potatoes planted and spring is just around the corner. Life is good.
 That doesn't mean problems aren't coming ,it just means I think keeping calm, planning ahead and enjoying my time here on earth are as good as I can do. + I am going to figure out how to sink some carbon without utilizing fossil fuels to do so.

Consequences / Re: Near Term Human Extinction
« on: February 22, 2018, 07:48:46 AM »
Oren, Thank you for explaining your ten year fifty year critique. I spent the day angry, a ridiculous response to blog comments.
 I have been living without any wheat and I can also demonstrate that pigs and chickens don't need grains. Not that I can demonstrate keeping civilization running should we lose grain harvests for some reason but most definately survival potential for small groups.
 We humans are facing an existential challenge. There will be reasonable responses from some people and unreasonable responses by others. I see no reason to believe extinction is in our immediate future. Humans did get by without grains for most of our history.


Consequences / Re: Near Term Human Extinction
« on: February 21, 2018, 11:50:27 PM »
I don't have any projections of when our human population starts into decline. I also believe El Cid is correct in that we can keep feeding ourselves. My problem is with the notion that that makes everything peachy. Don't worry about the thirty percent that the food economy and infrastructure contributes to our carbon emissions . Put your foot on the gas pedal , we'll figure it out later... Magical thinking is like I said earlier one of the expected responses of a certain segment of society. I said troll or worse and in my opinion apologists for BAU are worse than trolls.

Consequences / Re: Near Term Human Extinction
« on: February 21, 2018, 09:23:01 PM »
El Cid, As long as you keep pouring fossil fuels into the tractors, pump out nitrogen with natural gas power, mine what phosphorus is left with current mining technology, strip what carbon still remains in our farm soils while shipping the resulting food stores around the world with planes, ships,trucks and rail.All collectively known as BAU then everything is going to be just fine. Don't worry and please just eat your cake ! I would like you to post on the "walking the walk" thread if you have something else in mind otherwise I consider you a troll and worse.

Consequences / Re: Near Term Human Extinction
« on: February 21, 2018, 07:44:33 PM »
I have no idea when the general public is going to realize how bad of a situation we have created for ourselves. I sometimes question their cognitive abilities.
 Preparation for massive climatic disruptions is difficult for anyone to prepare for. Do you run for it and try to protect your own ass? Do you try to develop survival techniques that will help some later generations struggle to survive through what will be this species greatest challenge ? Or do you just hope for someone else to come up with a miracle? All of those options will be utilized by various segments of society. I have opted for trying to help someone in the future. Whether anyone cares to walk this thing back with me is questionable but I currently have all the assets nessesary for experimenting. I believe as we get closer those options will be restricted. Time is not on our side and like Ritter says 10 years or 40 years are but a blink of the eye. I have never personally met anyone I could honestly say was trying to prepare. I enjoy human company, I enjoy my animals, I don't understand my fellow human beings...nobody will come through this without some psychological damage. I think Guy's response is flawed , I don't think all the love in the world will help if you can't help future generations and the man has simply given up.
 Mostly we are acting like a deer looking into the headlights.

Arctic sea ice / Re: The 2017/2018 freezing season
« on: February 20, 2018, 04:49:14 AM »
Tonight it is going to get down to 23 F where I live here in Southern Calif.  I went and looked at Red Dog Dock ( north of Kotzebue ) and it is ~ 31 F . Weird !

Consequences / Re: Ocean Temps
« on: February 18, 2018, 05:19:04 PM »
I think high ocean temperatures and coral bleaching are directly related. Therefore discussing it's potential impacts on humans is fair game.  I wonder if anyone has done any dietary studies on
Isolated human populations highly dependent on reef fish and nearshore invertebrates?
 Getting the larger public to recognize the threats the ocean is being exposed to can be very much improved by knowledge of how those threats impact other humans. The oyster crashes in Oregon and Washington due to ocean acidification being a prime case. I have been a commercial fisherman for over thirty years and we do see things that are missed or ignored by the scientific community and terrestrial humans.
The oyster crashes were spotted by aquaculturists and their causes were also isolated by those same people with the help of experimentation ,monitoring equipment, and university expertise .So if coral bleaching events are impacting indigenous fishermen there should be an attempt to document the human misery caused.
Corals and fish dieoffs in marine reserves or parks are just never going to have the same impact on the larger story that needs to be told. We terrestrial members of civilization are causing the oceans ecosystems to begin to die. Paradise in the South Pacific isn't paradise if the food humans  have survived upon for thousands of years disappears and their islands flood.
 Ocean heating also results in ecosystem shifts that results in the collapse of kelp forests. We are currently having extreme impacts to invertebrates in Northern California largely due to the after affects of the "blob." The red sea urchin fishery there has largely collapsed and abalone stocks are also starving because purple urchin barrens have eaten all the kelp. Purple urchins were never as abundant in Northern California as they currently are with populations reaching an average of 150 per square meter across Calif. Fish and Wildlife monitoring stations. The 2018 recreational fishery for abalone in California has been closed as a result.
Kelp resources in Tazmania are also under severe threat due to increases in ocean temperatures. This has caused a shift in herbivor populations resulting in overgrazed kelp resources. Current ocean temperature anomalies around Tazmania and Southern New Zealand are +3 C.

If you don't like talking about the impacts of high ocean temperatures then my experiences as an ocean observer are useless to you, just ignor me and enjoy your day.

Consequences / Re: Ocean Temps
« on: February 18, 2018, 06:42:38 AM »
Yes the coral reefs worldwide are under very severe stresses due to bleaching events and acidification. The loss of these habitats will negatively affect reef fish populations but I think you might need to link some sources before you can claim Pelagic fish will collapse as a result. Maybe that isn't your intention.
" Eastern Boundrary currents comprise .1% of the worlds oceans but contribute 20% of fish catches."
The eastern boundary currents are not under any immediate threats .
Arctic fisheries are still relatively healthy also.
 Making radical claims about imminent threats of human starvation needs some sort of documentation .
Please source your claims !
It is more than a common courtesy on a science based blog like ASIF , it is how we communicate.

Walking the walk / Re: Zero-Carbon Farming and Living via the Acorn Path
« on: February 17, 2018, 11:48:47 PM »
Geoff, Very impressive! I would like to try to ballpark some numbers based upon the 10% SOM ( soil organic matter ) numbers claimed by Singing Frog Farms. I don't have SOM profiles for various soil depths so this is speculative, OK?
 If you increase SOM to 12 inches from the starting 2% to 10% with a 8% gain
    and increase SOM from 12 inches to 24 inches from 2% to 6% with a 4% gain
    and increase SOM from 24 inches to 36 inches from 1% to 3% with a 2% gain you get an average gain of about 4.7 % SOM gain in the first three feet of soil.
 If your soil weighs 2,000 lbs. a cubic yard you have about 94 lbs. SOM in gains. SOM is about 50% carbon so you have 47 lbs. of Carbon per square yard of surface area over a ten year period, or
A very ballpark 100 ton carbon gain an acre over a ten year period.
 Gasoline or diesel emissions are about 20 lbs or 22 lbs. CO2 per gallon or about 10 lbs. carbon per gallon... So Singing Frog Farms can burn 1000 gallons fuel per year per acre in their operation and come out even, carbon in carbon out.
 I don't know how many truck miles it takes to deliver all their vegetables . How many miles their 14 employees use getting back and forth to work, how much energy their water pumps use to keep everything wet year round or how many air miles the owners use in promoting their farm. I also don't know how much energy they use to transport the compost they use, I am certain their compost isn't all produced from their three acre property. The soil carbon reaches saturation after ten years so after that the carbon sink numbers are much less impressive and their fuel use and CO2 emissions will dominate the soil carbon numbers from the first ten years.
 I suspect I am making some sort of math errors.

I have been approaching the problem by trying to reduce fossil fuel CO2 emissions from farm equipment as my first task. I think some combination of how Singing Frog Farms sinks carbon and my experiments with reducing farm equipment emissions would result in something closer to a farm that sinks more carbon than it emits but both my farm and theirs have the biggest problems with distribution.
If electric /battery trucks that are affordable become available this last hurdle can be surpassed.
I farm my farm without any outside labor. I wish I could have more help but I think I still have enough years left to get to the zero carbon or negative carbon farming I strive to achieve.
I could get there now if I all I needed to do was feed my wife and me. I still have property payments, taxes, insurance etc. so I still need to create income. We are eating well on only farm produced foods. We use almost zero fossil fuels to feed ourselves. Trying to produce income results in fossil fuel use, largely from transportation and animal feed costs.

The rest / Re: Russiagate
« on: February 17, 2018, 06:56:16 AM »
Rob, I don't think this is over yet. Indictments aren't convictions. Do we convict them in absentia ? I still like my friend Terry and if I could channel him I would ask whether we would go to the same extremes to destabilize Russian elections?  How about Iran? Or Chile ? Ancient history ?  So when chucking stones be careful about that glass house we inhabit.
 The question remains Why? I don't think we will ever know.

The rest / Re: Poll on oil price
« on: February 14, 2018, 04:46:30 AM »
From wherever it came
 and poured in
 to holes designed for

  and who believed
  till it fell as all tall things do
  that we would escape
  on golden threads
   or beanstalks

For Adam,


Science / Re: Carbon Cycle
« on: February 13, 2018, 10:00:11 PM »
Terry, The shallow oceans are saturated and the deep oceans are undersaturated. As the ocean up takes CO2 it is transformed into carbonic acid. Carbonic acid then combines with seawater to form carbonate,  bi-carbonate and a hydrogen ion. The hydrogen ions that are released are measured as a decrease in pH. Downwelling takes this low pH water to depth along with organic matter and calcium carbonate from phytoplankton . The organic matter is bacterially reduced and releases bound CO2 where it meets the saturation horizon because it doesn't sink after the calcium carbonate dissolves .
 In short the surface supplied CO2 and organic matter is carried to depth where it increases hydrogen ions and reduces pH . This it somewhat complicated because as the calcium carbonate dissolves it reabsorbs some of the hydrogen ions.  There is however a net increase in deep ocean pooled hydrogen ions . As this proceeds the saturation horizon gets closer to the surface.
 In the area of the ocean above the saturation calcium carbonate builds up on the sea floor. This pool of carbon is very long lived and eventually is moved tectonically onto the continents as limestone , or other mineral forms. Thus the oceans are responsible for carbon sinks that can hold carbon for millions of years. As the saturation horizon moves closer to the surface there is less and less ocean bottom where calcium carbonate can build up.

Science / Re: Carbon Cycle
« on: February 13, 2018, 08:28:43 PM »
Meridional overturning circulation conveys fast acidification to the deep Atlantic Ocean
Published 13 February 2018   
Since the Industrial Revolution, the North Atlantic Ocean has been accumulating anthropogenic carbon dioxide (CO2) and experiencing ocean acidification1, that is, an increase in the concentration of hydrogen ions (a reduction in pH) and a reduction in the concentration of carbonate ions. The latter causes the ‘aragonite saturation horizon’—below which waters are undersaturated with respect to a particular calcium carbonate, aragonite—to move to shallower depths (to shoal), exposing corals to corrosive waters2,3. Here we use a database analysis to show that the present rate of supply of acidified waters to the deep Atlantic could cause the aragonite saturation horizon to shoal by 1,000–1,700 metres in the subpolar North Atlantic within the next three decades. We find that, during 1991–2016, a decrease in the concentration of carbonate ions in the Irminger Sea caused the aragonite saturation horizon to shoal by about 10–15 metres per year, and the volume of aragonite-saturated waters to reduce concomitantly. Our determination of the transport of the excess of carbonate over aragonite saturation (xc[CO32−])—an indicator of the availability of aragonite to organisms—by the Atlantic meridional overturning circulation shows that the present-day transport of carbonate ions towards the deep ocean is about 44 per cent lower than it was in preindustrial times. We infer that a doubling of atmospheric anthropogenic CO2 levels—which could occur within three decades according to a ‘business-as-usual scenario’ for climate change4—could reduce the transport of xc[CO32−] by 64–79 per cent of that in preindustrial times, which could severely endanger cold-water coral habitats. The Atlantic meridional overturning circulation would also export this acidified deep water southwards, spreading corrosive waters to the world ocean.


Perez F. F., Fontela M., García-Ibáñez M. I., Mercier H., Velo A., Lherminier P., Zunino P., de la Paz M., Alonso-Pérez F., Guallart E. F. & Padin X. A., in press. Meridional overturning circulation conveys fast acidification to the deep Atlantic Ocean. Nature.

As the saturation horizon rises so too the long term sink for carbonates is reduced in size. For the short time spans we humans tend to worry about this may not seem catastrophic but it is a a problem that earth will have to deal with for ~ 100,000 years after we finally quit emitting CO2.  The calcium carbonate that would otherwise settle onto the shelves will instead desolve and reenter the oceans as DIC . The DIC will circulate and eventually upwell where it can again enter the atmospheric carbon pool. Our legacy is a very long term truncation of the ability of the oceans to sink carbon. Sad that, a legacy of death.

ICE cars are to some degree a statement and will remain a statement far beyond when they make no economic sense. I watch for Teslas when I drive and here in Southern Calif. I spot one or two when I make any travel towards LA. I see hundreds of muscle cars with gas Mileage < 20mph , thousands of light trucks, large SUV 's and odd clunkers at < 15 mpg. There are plenty of drivers out there that will pay at the pump purely as a statement of anti-enviro, machismo , right wing revolt, and a thumb in the eye to those of us who think differently. 
 I would vote that ICE cars will be sold as long as cars are sold. I might be wrong but I will surely be dead before the last ICE car is sold.
 A better question might be at what fuel price will half of all sales be battery-electric ? I would vote
$ 8.00 a gallon. Even at that price there will still be dicks driving gas hogs, and buying cars to impress us with their status or politics.

Consequences / Re: Conservative Scientists & its Consequences
« on: February 10, 2018, 09:36:31 PM »
If the ECS is in the 4.5c range it should be rather sobering to compare the 6 C that at least partially contributed to the end Permian extinctions. Acidification and hypoxia also played their part.

Assessing ocean acidification and carbon cycle perturbations during the end-Permian extinction using boron isotopes
Published 7 February 2018   Science Leave a Comment
Tags: methods, paleo
The Permian-Triassic mass extinction represents the most severe environmental crisis in Earth’s history, which dictated the course for evolution of life until today. Volcanism from Siberian traps played a significant role involving a substantial input of relatively light carbon into the atmosphere leading to a combination of global warming by ~6°C, sporadic anoxia or euxinia, and ocean acidification. However, its detailed manifestation and environmental impact is yet to be fully understood. This lack of knowledge also extends to a better quantification of emitted and sequestered carbon budgets (cf. Gutjahr et al., 2017).

Walking the walk / Re: Zero-Carbon Farming and Living via the Acorn Path
« on: February 10, 2018, 04:59:24 AM »
Carol Deppe in her gardening book Resilient Gardener 2010 gained much inspiration from Buffalo Bird Woman. I have adapted drying summer squash because of what Buffalo Bird Woman was willing to pass along.  I use a type of Italian zucchini called Costata Romanesco for drying. I ate some tonight in an eggplant parmigiana.
 OK , The eggplant came from the store so I am cheating but we have been able to maintain a diet sourced from the farm for most everything for over five weeks.
 I treated four pounds of corn to hydrated lime, nixmalization. After soaking and rinsing I redryed the corn. It is easier to run trough the flour mill and the resulting Masa Harina is easy to work with.
Fresh tamales from farm raised dent corn is really a treat. Again corn has revealed how it is easy to work with, to cook with and to grow ( at least around here ). We have been eating Lima beans , black beans and black eyed peas. Some cornbread and acorn cake. Having fresh tamales and tortillas is a culinary experiance new to me . Like I discovered last year , making food that tastes good is very important in maintaining an off grid diet.

Consequences / Re: California weather extremes and climate
« on: February 08, 2018, 06:06:02 PM »
Gerontocrat, Yes soil moisture but also several other indexes. Satellite  plant stress , surface water flows,etc.
It's very dry and warm , we had one 2" rain and although that brought up the grass it is already yellowing. The main water reservoir, Lake Cachuma,  rose to 50% last year with last years rains but has already dropped below 40%.
 I haven't heard " ridiculous resilient ridge " as often as a couple years ago but it's there . The last time this happened we also ended up with the " blob " . I hope the " blob " doesn't return , it was very destructive to the West Coast marine nearshore ecosystems. The starfish dieoff, purple urchins barrens,kelp losses , and abalone starving in Northern Calif.

Consequences / Re: Climate change, the ocean, agriculture, and FOOD
« on: February 03, 2018, 06:41:27 PM »
Gerontocrat,  I quess the hardest part is realizing there really just aren't any solutions. If you break it down to what it takes just to survive, feed yourself , reduce all transport to very limited ranges, I mean a very strict and unforgiving pursuit of zero carbon emissions it is still not going to be zero carbon. Nobody has figured it out. Maybe you can imagine a reversion to a lithic based civilization . I really think the cost of even those first few kilns , coke fired, still cost forests .
 The forests are important in the terrestrial sink. Agriculture of crops is for all the evidence a carbon source. Carbon from deep soil is dropping in the crop mollisols studies but it looks to be increasing in the forest soils. So our food production methods are a source of carbon and even if you figured out how to run tools electrically just farming and eatting are contributing to carbon sources.
 I am going on in this critique because zero is where we all somehow need to go. I think we are in addition suppose to figure out how to create vast new terrestrial sinks to pull down carbon.
 So what does perfect look like, who is close?  How do we at least farm without bleeding carbon?
 I wish there was a reality show. A show with a multi-million dollar prize that challenged a zero fossil fuel existence . The challenge should also include agriculture that resulted in sinking carbon. Maybe nobody would like to see what the winning strategies look like. Maybe they would but we have should be asking what perfect looks like. Maybe someone is already living zero carbon. We should all be paying more attention to how some people may already have arrived at a place we are all headed,like it or not.


Policy and solutions / Re: Nuclear Power
« on: January 31, 2018, 04:35:25 AM »
Here is a article from David Roberts on the hard choices we all face. I don't call myself an environmentalist and sometimes that is a hard stand to make. A climate hawk yes, and willing to suffer and sacrifice because I believe hard choices are at hand. Nuclear sucks, big hydro sucks but BAU and the consequent extinctions it turns a blind eye to sucks worse. NIMBY and righteousness go hand in hand with much I have been forced to fight from the environmental movement. Locally they have shut down large wind farms, sustainable fisheries, and reasonable solutions ( or partial solutions) that fly in the face of their donor base.

Policy and solutions / Re: The Hyperloop
« on: January 30, 2018, 10:01:38 PM »
For business trips my wife travels by train here in Calif. We have tried to forgo all air transport even though that means extra days for every trip. She has however been stuck on the tracks several times because either the train she was on or another somewhere on the same track hit a pedestrian. This week a pedestrian fatality added eight more hours to what would have been a six hour trip. The conductor on the train said it has become a weekly occurrence in the LA area. I have a feeling death by train is becoming a suicide option.
 I have traveled by high speed rail in Japan and Europe and most of the tracks are well fenced or elevated. Maybe the hyper loop is the only way intercity high speed rail is ever going to happen around here. Sometimes the 405 feels like a game of Russian roulette even when it's moving because shoving all those cars down six lanes at 75 mph is just plain nuts ! If the hyper loop ever starts running it will be worth a few extra bucks to avoid the crazy stress that LA freeways always produce. It used to be kinda fun in a mini cooper 40 + years ago but the thrill is gone. I'm getting way too old to enjoy the
Hellhole LA has become .

Consequences / Re: Climate change, the ocean, agriculture, and FOOD
« on: January 30, 2018, 09:19:24 PM »
Another long term soil carbon study from China shows some similarity to the Wisconsin research linked by Sidd. Although they didn't test as deeply as did the US Mollisols there were carbon gains in shallow soil levels but losses at mid depth. I would bet at 3 ft. Losses were more profound in China.
 Alfalfa that is a no till perennial performed the best re. carbon gains and here is some explanations as to why. From the research article linked below.
 "Among the factors that might explain the relatively large rate of C sequestration for the alfalfa treatment of the present study are greater root biomass of perennial vegetation and litter quality. The amount of root C and rates of SOC sequestration have been shown to be positively correlated (Rasse et al., 2005; Baker et al., 2007). Both shoots and roots are sources of C that can help to improve soil fertility, but perennials allocate relatively more C to roots than shoots compared with annual crops (Bolinder et al., 2002). In other experiments, the relative contribution of alfalfa roots to SOC was 2.7 times more than that of the shoots (Puget & Drinkwater, 2001) and 1.8 times more than that of corn shoots (Molina et al., 2001), which suggests that root-derived C persists for longer in soil than shoot-derived C. The length of time over which net C assimilation occurs, which is longer for perennial vegetation than annual crops, is also an important factor that affects rates of C sequestration (Baker et al., 2007). In our study, the greater length of time of CO2 fixation shown by the perennial plants might have affected C sequestration rates. High quality litter (e.g. legume biomass and fine roots), such as alfalfa in our study, is thought to lead to greater efficiency in microbial carbon use, and therefore more microbial products and greater rates of C sequestration compared with lower quality litter (Cotrufo et al., 2013), such as corn residue in the present study. The decrease in the rate of increase in SOC stocks with increased rates of C additions in the S–M rotations (Figure 3) might have resulted partly from the poorer quality of the litter leading to less efficient C sequestration in the S–M rotations."
The problem with all these studies is that they are not full system analysis. They take no measure of the carbon emissions from the tractors or irrigation pumps. They take no measure of the methane emissions from ruminates fed the forage produced.
 This is the reason that I have personally focused on eliminating all fossil fuel carbon emissions from farm equipment first and adding soil carbon only after I first control on farm emissions. Farm produced biofuels are currently the best available way to run farm equipment other than some small electric cultivation equipment available. Compost needs to be sourced from on farm sources because transportation quickly eats up any soil carbon gains.
 Gerontocrat makes some very broad brush critiques of biofuels without offering any alternatives for how farmers might control their on farm carbon emissions with currently available technology. Yes palm oil is a terrible choice as is corn ethanol but people continuing to drive single occupied ICE vehicles on daily commutes is the real problem. So maybe critiques should include solutions and those solutions should have some real world testing included. Feeding more and more human mouths so they can live middle class lifestyles isn't IMO a solution ,it is the problem. As it turns out the only two commercial farmers on this site ( Sidd and I ) utilize on farm produced bio. Maybe bio should be reserved for farm machinery rather than personal transport or air travel options but I ain't King and nobody would like me if I was. Farming is a very difficult choice for making a living and buying solar panels and quarter million dollar electric tractors is never going to be an option for the vast majority of small landholders.

Consequences / Re: Climate change, the ocean, agriculture, and FOOD
« on: January 30, 2018, 12:49:38 AM »
Thank you Sidd, Although the forage systems appear somewhat ( relatively ) better than grain systems I have concerns that improved forage results in increased cattle per acre on these forage systems. Unless the studies include the potential methane implications of cattle or ruminates in forage systems the resultant GHG effects of methane may compound the soil carbon results.
 I wish something like native grass prairie could also be studied as some sort of control.
 I also wish there might also be some investigations into dehesa systems of pasture-pigs-and oaks as an alternative agricultural option for carbon farming. Trees are the missing part of all the C1 to C6 options tested.

Here is another link to the paper Sidd sourced

Policy and solutions / Re: Oil and Gas Issues
« on: January 29, 2018, 11:57:20 PM »
Terry, I am with you on the prevalence of propaganda. Maybe it has always been so ? I recently saw RT television news on a cable network. For me watching RT was far more informative of world issues than anything available on the nightly US network pablum.  I also like Al Jazeera for world news coverage. If anyone is watching US news without a habit of reading newspapers they are NOT getting anything but pure crap.

Consequences / Re: Climate change, the ocean, agriculture, and FOOD
« on: January 29, 2018, 11:46:32 PM »
Sidd, In a query I had re. Soil carbon testing you suggested sampling at three feet. I assume that is because surface carbon is exposed to heat and oxygen that rapidly reduces surface soil carbon but perhaps you could expand on your recommendation.
 I am still less than confident in how terrestrial carbon sinks will fare over the coming decades.

Consequences / Re: Climate change, the ocean, agriculture, and FOOD
« on: January 29, 2018, 11:34:17 PM »
    Sidd, Abrupt linked this Atlantic piece up thread .There are a few responses, mine on the missing carbon sink issues.
The linked article presents two different approaches that humanity could follow for feeding the world's population in the coming decades:

Title: "Can Planet Earth Feed 10 Billion People?"

Walking the walk / Re: Zero-Carbon Farming and Living via the Acorn Path
« on: January 27, 2018, 07:00:46 PM »
I have focused food storage on dry goods, beans ,corn etc. Because solar ,grid tied , pays the electrics I also have freezers but I don't freeze as many vegetables as I could. We have a fairly mild climate so growing brassicas is possible year round. I have lived in areas that root cellars or ice barns work but the ground around here never gets cold enough. I think you'd need to get almost 20 feet underground to reach a year round constant temperature here in S. Cal. It does freeze at night on occasion but even a 28 degree F night can turn into 80 degrees F the next day. Those are the temperatures for today.
 I do store some winter squash and potatoes under hay in the barn to protect them from getting frozen.
 Does anyone know if there is a technique to dry a soil sample then weigh it and cook it to drive off the carbon? Is there a test I could use at home that would give me a before and after soil carbon content?
I know soil labs can do this but it would be nice to have protocols for home testing.
 Geoff is asking about carbon calculators and what a morally defendable personal carbon emission rate might look like. I think this is a good line of inquiry, we on this FORUM should be able to ballpark that answer. The tricky part is quantifying the efficacy of negative emission techniques like planting trees, building soil carbon, or bio char . These seem quantifiable but we really need an honest auditor . The environmental NGO's spend billions on lobby work so where are the carbon auditors? Frustrating.
 We need something like perfection , who are the examples we should follow and who are the bullshitters ? Time is getting very , very late.

Walking the walk / Re: Zero-Carbon Farming and Living via the Acorn Path
« on: January 27, 2018, 06:44:56 AM »
The first month of the year is passing quickly. I went into my electricity and gas bills for 2017. I thought these two bills pay most my utilities but as it turns out my trash service was slightly higher than my electricity bill. Well water costs are incorporated the electric bill but I pay the water district for irrigation use but again even though I use less now than when I commercially farmed vegetables, at about three acre feet a year,  those water district charges were very small . Anyhow I am trying to get fixed costs like water and utilities into a manageable number . Everything total was < $1,200 for the year.
 Retirement means controlling costs and $100 a month for natural gas, water, garbage, and electric might be as good as I ( we ) can do. Those costs also cover the garden expenses that are supplying our food. As my wife and I start into month two the dry stores of beans, corn , squash seed , and acorns seem hardly dented. There seems to be plenty of variety in our diets this year compared to last years rather strict acorn challenge. Month two isn't going to be difficult and food stores look plenty adequate to reach well into summer. That is we haven't gone to the store for groceries and we can keep going for several more months. This year is a bad flu season so NOT going to the store means we can mostly avoid bumping elbows with too many humans.
 I have been cooking off the largest compost effort I have ever attempted . Just estimating but I would guess about 5-6 tons. Horse, goat, chicken, wood chips, and straw . All from the farm. I will spread it over the one acre of garden currently in a cover crop of peas and fava beans.
 My thoughts on building soil carbon in the garden: Using as little fossil fuels in the tractor  or ranch and home electric uses makes the carbon added back via cover and compost potentially negative emissions. I would like to believe it is possible anyhow. I know I am getting closer at least for farm energy but every time I get in the car, or truck I know I am converting back into a carbon hog.
Any off farm transportation is hugely fuel intensive and quickly negates my on farm carbon efforts.
 Getting there looks more and more like feudalism. I would offer a disclaimer, feudal isn't simple.

Terry, I gotta cook some yucca hearts. I will try to keep from getting stabbed but they aren't called Spanish bayonet for nothing. Yucca syrup?

Consequences / Re: Climate change, the ocean, agriculture, and FOOD
« on: January 25, 2018, 06:05:22 PM »
The ocean sinks are driven largely by biological processes. Yes Henry's law says CO2 will move from the atmosphere into the oceans as long as the partial pressure of the atmosphere is higher than the pCO2 of the ocean surface it contacts but when the pCO2 of the ocean is higher than the atmosphere the reaction is reversed. CO2 in seawater converts into carbonic acid which then converts into carbonate,
bi-carbonate and hydrogen. The carbonate is utilized by plants and animals that form calcium carbonate shells but as the pCO2 increases the reaction favors bi-carbonate formation over carbonate and increases the metabolic costs of shell formation. As the pCO2 increases further and reaches omega
( ph ~ 7.8 ) shell and dissolution of aragonite begins. As pH levels continue to fall some plants and animals are challenged with obtaining enough energy to make their shell quick enough to survive.
 The shells from pteropods and coccolithiphores are important contributors to the biological carbon sinks because they help ballast organic material from the surface to depth thereby maintaining the ocean surface at pH levels high enough that they favor atmosphere to ocean CO2 gas exchange. They are both sensitive to ocean acidification however and as ocean acidification proceeds  their populations and range will decrease. Without adequate ballast organic matter will remain in surface waters and be bacterially reduced there releasing CO2 and absorbing oxygen in surface waters. At some point CO2 will build up to the point that the partial pressure differential that supports current atmosphere to ocean transfer will fail.
I will talk about terrestrial sinks after I go do morning farm chores.

Consequences / Re: Climate change, the ocean, agriculture, and FOOD
« on: January 24, 2018, 11:26:12 PM »
Fascinating article but there is a big missing piece that does not suprise me and every minute terrifies me. I am happy to see that Neven , an aspiring farmer and "prophet" intuitively noticed. How we sink carbon and the ramifications of the prophet / wizard duality will in the end decide the path forward or the way back. The living earth has ramped up the efficiency of our terrestrial and oceanic carbon sinks with the nitrogen, CO2 and heat we have supplied it with. There are limits to the carbon sinks however. The ocean is  acidifying , heating and stratifying with the consequent hypoxic results and the eventual negative effects on the biological carbon sinks.Deforestation and carbon stripping of the agricultural lands devoted to agricultural wizardry are heating the atmosphere, melting the polar ice, and slowly choking off ability of those systems to recover. There are tipping points quickly approaching for both of our two major carbon sinks and how we farm may be the only effective way we can sink some of that carbon...long term.
 Wizardry has been terribly shortsighted to date but there are potential partial solutions like perennial wheatgrass that can help. From my perspective we continue to fail at recognizing the carbon cycle challenges and instead focus on feeding humans, growth ,wealth, etc. Those solutions will lead to huge ecosystem collapses should we move farther and farther from nature and how this planet self regulates it's temperature. We should by now realize what failure to place ourselves within the limits that life on this planet operates within . That will be not only be our own destruction but also the loss of so much other life on this planet. The coral reefs are blinking out before our eyes and we worry about feeding more mouths . The Arctic Ice thins before our eyes and we worry about bringing more lives into the middle classes. The Wizards better get their priorities straight or those few Prophets that are left willing to live within the confines of a simpler life will be rubbed out in the destruction wrought.

Arctic sea ice / Re: Stupid Questions :o
« on: January 22, 2018, 07:02:36 AM »
I think Sebastian has the correct answer. When I was younger we boys would run down rabbits on hot days in a large field. One runner would start then when he got tired a second runner would take up the chase until the rabbit got too hot and gave up. Jack rabbits were tough to catch but cotton tails were pretty easy.
 I think the fact that we could build shelters and make clothes made hair for keeping warm at night unnecessary. So long distance running in heat , building shelter and communications in hunting strategies resulted in hairless ( mostly ) humans.

Policy and solutions / Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« on: January 19, 2018, 08:17:22 PM »
Considering the progression of drones from spying to armed semiautonomous kill vehicles maybe the autonomous cars will fight back? 
 I saw film taken of the recent Thomas fire that came from high altitude drones. I am quite sure they have been involved with CAMP ( campaign agains't marijuana production ) although I have no proof.
When does spying in the name of fighting crime or pot production switch to enforcing borders and ultimately to armed kill vehicles. All in the name of first fighting terror, then fighting crime. How would organized car burning be viewed ... Terrorism?  ELF is most definatly viewed as an Eco-terrorist organization for burning down houses.
 I don't trust the whole movement towards autonomous vehicles because it will very much enable the mission creep that facilities armed autonomous vehicles that are currently employed by the military. I don't know why I should trust police with this technology , and ultimately they will be using it.

Consequences / Re: 2018 ENSO
« on: January 18, 2018, 02:55:56 AM »
The JISAO PDO index was updated for Nov. at .15 and Dec. at .5   This completes four years with positive numbers.

Walking the walk / Re: How to resuscitate a dead field
« on: January 17, 2018, 08:38:35 PM »
Johnm33, I agree with most of the soil health recommendations in the article you posted. There are of course issues with how to economically run a farm if you try to employ these techniques. 1) If you put animals on your crops to consume the cover-crop or vegative plant fodder you can't legally harvest any crops for nine months. It used to be three months but the rules changed due to food safety concerns and now you basically loose an entire season if you graze animals.2) Seed drills are currently used in commercial agriculture but they invariably also utilize herbicides to control weeds. GMO's are designed to be sprayed with roundup so farmers can avoid cultivation. It is probably more energy efficient to drill and spray and our dependence upon corn and soy GMO's would be far less had we continued with something closer to conventional farm practices of fifty years ago. 3) Controling weeds without  herbicides, select sprays, pre emergent sprays, or cultivation is virtually impossible unless you hire people with hoes to scour your fields every few weeks with hoes. Labor costs are preventative. Yes you can pull off weed control on a garden scale but even then crabgrass, devil grass, morning glory or any weed that spreads with rhizomes will crush even a very dedicated gardener.
 I think food safety , the USDA and squeamish picky consumer preferences are far larger concerns to commercial ag than soil health. I can't even find an insurance company to cover my farm if I raise both vegetables and pigs on the same farm. The consumers and the insurance industry have prescribed the chemical dependence that defines modern agriculture. As long as the fossil fuels hold out farmers will pour on the fertilizers ,fungicides and pesticides. The groceries will appear in the picture perfect grocery store abundance we are all so used to and the soil carbon sinks will continue belching out CO2
 Grow your own food and become responsible for the soil that supports your sustenance. Learn to farm without fossil fuels. Love your animals and sustain the health of your little piece of paradise.

See FSMA signed into law 2011

The rest / Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« on: January 15, 2018, 09:40:51 PM »
Even " freedom" can be a vice.

Consequences / Re: Floods
« on: January 11, 2018, 03:03:59 PM »
It was just dumb luck that the hills above Montecito hadn't burned in such a long time. Most of the rest of the Santa Ynez mountains have had multiple fires over that time period. I think if you were to look back over the last few thousand years you would see many extended droughts in the Southwestern U.S. Any extended drought is going to increase the risk of wildfires and even drought years can produce 2-4 inch rain events. So the debris flows could have been triggered by the same conditions that caused this event had the hills burned fifty years ago rather than last month. Ventura and Santa Barbara counties are 7 or 8 years into a drought that could extend much futher. Yes the extra heat of global warming contributes to faster desiccation of plant life and yes December fires seem anomalous but a Sept. fire and zero rains until January would result in the same preconditions that resulted in the debris flows.
 The fact that people ignored the risks is what caused the lost of life, the property damage was inevitable due to bad planning. Here is a link to warnings that went out before the minor rain event.
Maps on the link clearly show the creeks that carried the debris flows.

Consequences / Re: Floods
« on: January 11, 2018, 02:59:45 AM »
I think the single most important point getting little attention is that the hills above Montecito haven't burned in a hundred years. There are parts of the city that were built in flood plains and nobody seemed to realize the risks. Anyone who looks at the rounded boulders that are scattered around town can tell these are stream rounded. The mountains have delivered these boulders for hundreds of thousands of years. We just got the combination of fire and rain that triggers debris flows. This doesn't qualify as climate change, it's just a lack of planning and some tough luck. Stupidity will be when they reissue the building permits to repeat the dumb ass planning that allowed this nonsense in the first place. Clue to planners, bad s... happens when you ignor the obvious.
There are plenty of parallels with other issues like rising CO2 levels. Ignor and repeat until the wheels come off.

Consequences / Re: Floods
« on: January 10, 2018, 08:41:34 PM »
There isn't information on where the mortalities occurred. Voluntary and mandatory evacuations covered the vast majority of the flooded parts of Montecito and the vast majority of residents ignored warnings.
 The rain total was only slightly over two inches in Montecito. We sometimes will get 9 inches in a 24 hour period. The rain that occurred on the hills was totally expected.The problem was there haven't been any rains to get anything green started on the hills.
The fire burned extremely hot and burnt into the soil. Soil doesn't absorb water when it is in this condition.
 These flooding issues will repeat when we get the next slug of rain. The next time the evacuation orders go out they will be complied with. Same thing with warnings about climate change. After we are deep in trouble people will react but probably they won't react in ways adequate to meet the challenge.
Montecito will rebuild. They will rebuild in the same flood corridors that were just washed out. The real estate is just too valuable . Same thing with climate disasters. We will rebuild, the disasters will just repeat. When the money runs out we will get responses commensurate to the threats. Move away from the threats, downsize, grown your own food, become self sufficient. Last thing on the minds of Montecito residents. 

Consequences / Re: Wildfires
« on: January 10, 2018, 05:27:15 PM »
Chumash Indians burnt the chaparel for thousands of years before white man arrived. They burned in the spring after the rain season so the wet ground wouldn't burn. They were trying to improve grass and feed to support more game. Condors thrived on the increased game and open areas to land and take off. They also hunted sea otters to help improve shellfish stocks, or that was the result.
 I don't think California is " less livable " unless we turn off the power. This is LaLa land ( Disneyland ) and it is a manipulated environment. There is lots of building , growth and yes solar panels and Teslas but I would be careful about touting our environmental credentials . We are masters at deception and there is a profit in the dream.
 Here is a real estate site for Montecito.
So if you would like a couple Teslas in your three car garage and live the dream you better pony up .
It is just a dream and there isn't anyone in the U.S.that can better afford to rebuild. They will continue to avoid creating defendable space to fight fires, they will continue to avoid water conservation, they will import all their food , and pay the help to keep it all beautiful. So please don't worry about the weather , global warming , fires, floods or food, some people have enough money to avoid reality.
 If you'd like to get a better look at something closer to ground level and how thousands of Californians live plan your vacation for Fresno. Enjoy !


Consequences / Re: Floods
« on: January 09, 2018, 09:01:59 PM »
From the pictures on the local T.V. news Montecito took a very big economic hit last night. The Montecito Inn took several feet of water from a debris flow. For anyone who has been there the Montecito Inn is downtown , right by the 101 freeway. The 101 is just a mess. There were areas where five to six feet of mud flows and debris sweep through residences and businesses.
 The evacuation notices for Montecito weren't as successful as the fire evacuations had been. There have been five fatalities and there may be more.
 There aren't more storms in the immediate forecast, the low is currently sitting directly over S.B. and moving off to the Southeast. Tomorrow will be nice but this is going to take days to clear the debris off the highway and from city streets. I am calling billions$  in damages . This is just the start of the rain season and there is the very real possibility this can happen again over the next month.

Consequences / Re: Floods
« on: January 09, 2018, 04:57:10 PM »
With the first rains following the Thomas fire, 2-5 inches overnight, there are debris flows in Montecito.
Three mansions where swept off their footings , several people were caught in the mud and needed rescue , and a natural gas line broke resulting in a couple houses burned. These are problems to be expected in the aftermath of California wildfires . We need the rain and these issues will repeat until something green sprouts on the hillsides.

Walking the walk / Re: Zero-Carbon Farming and Living via the Acorn Path
« on: January 07, 2018, 05:25:45 PM »
Avalonian, Thanks and I hope you find something useful in my efforts. Most of my project is with
garden crops / forage developed by Native Americans. Using homemade bio , solar power and electric tillers is a way to make the work easier utilizing mechanical slave labor without fossil fuels.
 I am a big fan of using acorn starch in lots of recipes. The preparations for making acorn flour done by native tribes lost the starch , Dotorimuk, in processing. Both OrganicSU and I explained how to recover the starch while preparing acorn flour. Different types of acorns have different starch yields. Cork Oak seem to yield more starch than Holm Oaks. I was wondering how the various Oak species in Wales taste, look and what starch yield you can get ? I use the starch as a thickener so puddings, pies, stews, all can use some acorn starch. I think also that the sticky texture that the local Chumash prefer in acorn mush can be enhanced with starch.
 None of this work is difficult and it can easily be scaled up to feed a group of people year round. It may take me a couple more years to get there but year round food supply using these methods is my goal. One month last year, two or three this year and with grains and honey maybe I can get close fairly soon.

Walking the walk / Re: Zero-Carbon Farming and Living via the Acorn Path
« on: January 07, 2018, 10:34:15 AM »
It's the first week into this years zero carbon farm and forage efforts. Last year was very different from this year because I didn't make preparations last year. This year I devoted about a half acre of garden into crops like beans, dent corn, and squash seed . These crops were dried a couple months ago and I have had a good drying season for acorns. I ran my tractor exclusively upon homemade pig lard biodiesel for my whole garden season so the crops I produced were largely carbon free, fossil fuel free.
I also tilled and planted about one acre into a cover crop of favas and peas. I have been irrigating but we are finally going to get some rains ! Without early rains I don't have any wild greens like I had last year so I will be eating pea tendrils from the cover crop.
 I currently have over eight hundred pounds of acorns but most of that will go to the pigs. I have been collecting and supplementing the pigs with acorns for over three months. I have both Cork oak, and Holm oak dried and milled into flour. I raked about three hundred pounds of Holm oak acorns in three hours a couple days ago. That was from three trees planted at a church. The mowed lawns make collecting pretty easy.
 I still have the same six chickens I had last year. They run free during the day and feed themselves where they want. At night I go lock them into their coop. I have a theory that the predators don't like the pigs because before I got pigs coyotes and bobcats would take chickens in broad daylight , no problems lately.
 This years diet isn't nearly as austere as last year . Beans and cornbread are a lot more familiar in multiple recipes . The acorn flour and acorn starch are more like ingredients of the cornbread and bean staples. I also stewed and froze several quarts of tomatoes to make for some variety. There are butternut squash buried under some hay in the hay barn to keep them from freezing and I have a big box of potatoes sprouting for planting also covered in hay.
 I have plans on adding grains into this years garden so next year will include bread. I should also start a couple bee hives because sugar is still the first thing you notice missing in a foraged/farm crop diet.
Fruit preserves , dried apricots and Yacon syrup are better than zero sugar but until you quit eatting prepared foods you don't notice how much sugar there is in the American diet. Last year I lost weight but this year my wife and I are planning a couple months and I hope to gain a little weight in the process.

I have been a Jeffers fan for over 40 years. He has been an influence on my poetry and likely my rather dark soul.
I wish the notion of wilderness and walking away from fossil fuels was a bigger part of the modern enviornment movement than ecotourism.
Primitive cultures should be left the space to be primitive and the missionaries put in the caldron. I have no faith in techno solutions , we are just postponing the inevitable.

The rest / Re: Russiagate
« on: December 29, 2017, 09:54:12 AM »
Rob, I am about sick of the thought police crap. Sidd happens to be one of the best sourced commenters on this forum. He lives in the part of the country that happens to also have plenty of Trump supporters . I would trust that he would be able to sort through the politics of his neighbors whilst maintain a civil relationship with them.
 Even if we did have a Trump supporter here on the forum , and I don't know who they are , I would hope we could look at whatever they might have to contribute here without resorting to witch hunt tactics.
 Fairness and an open mind are important attributes IMO. I have good friends that are Trump supporters and as much as I wish they would change their mind(s) I am not going to walk away from people I have known my whole life just because I don't agree with their political affiliations. I also have liberal friends I consider misguided but I apply the same standard to my friendships with them.
They are my friends, they are willing to go out of their way to help me even though they understand my political views. And sometimes Rob I consider it the greatest compliment to be trusted by my political foes. In the harbor where I spent a major portion of my life even my enemies would put their boats and lives in peril to save me if they knew they needed to. That my friend is a place worth living in.

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