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Messages - wili

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Policy and solutions / Re: Lessons from COVID-19
« on: June 08, 2020, 05:10:53 AM »
Thanks, nan

The rest / Re: George Floyd murder and blowback
« on: June 08, 2020, 12:51:23 AM »
9 of our 13 city council members here in Minneapolis announced their plans to dismantle the police department today...

Now all we have to do is dismantle racism ! :)

The rest / Re: George Floyd murder and blowback
« on: June 07, 2020, 02:22:55 PM »
Absolutely, but the brunt of that work, as is generally the case, has fallen on the relatively young.

I have been concerned that Trump, if/when he loses the next election, will simply declare the election invalid and establish a military dictatorship.

On the one hand, the actions of some in the military refusing to go along with Trump's recent plans, gives me some hope that he won't be able to do this.

On the other hand...

‘American secret police’? Trump deployment of unidentified law enforcement officials across DC sparks alarm

This is some scary sh!t (on top of all the other scary s!hit going on...)

The rest / Re: George Floyd murder and blowback
« on: June 07, 2020, 02:05:41 PM »
Thanks for these, as always, vox

I would guestimate that ten times those numbers would be on the street if it weren't for covid, and maybe more.

This includes nearly all my relatives, friends and neighbors.

And for every person who is strongly enough motivated to take his voice to the street, there are generally ten more who are sympathetic but not motivated or unable to join the protest.

The rest / Re: George Floyd murder and blowback
« on: June 05, 2020, 08:22:52 PM »
Minneapolis City Council taking first steps to ‘dismantle’ police department

Has that been done anywhere else?

ETA: Ah, just saw this from a tweet that was quoted a ways down in the article:

"Camden, New Jersey completely disbanded & reconstituted its police force."

Maybe worth looking into how that went...

The rest / Re: George Floyd murder and blowback
« on: June 05, 2020, 05:44:54 AM »
to paraphrase chris h

“I do not fight fascists because I will win. I fight fascists because they are [fucking] fascists.”

The rest / Re: George Floyd murder and blowback
« on: June 05, 2020, 05:00:12 AM »
We're not eager to get back to normal

We're planning on how to go forward

to something that will be better

than the old fucking normal...

The rest / Re: George Floyd murder and blowback
« on: June 04, 2020, 10:32:32 PM »
Thanks, Phoenix.

Trans folks, and Black trans folks in particularly, are disproportionately victims of beatings and worse in pretty much every community, and especially by the police.

Is alex (thanks vox) gonna call the cops 'animals' for that and all the other violence they are and have ever been  perpetrating on the community?

Clearly, calling them 'animals' here is pure and open racism that should not be tolerated on this or any other forum with any smidgen of self respect

ETA: Ah, I see the initial post and the copy have been deleted. Good work, mods!

Consequences / Re: COVID-19
« on: June 04, 2020, 05:10:34 PM »

The rest / Re: George Floyd murder and blowback
« on: June 04, 2020, 05:01:58 PM »
Thanks, as always, vox

This is huge. Cops who allow fellow cops to commit attrocities are on notice that they can be charged.

Meanwhile, it looks like it's only a matter of time before the entire Mpls police department is dismantled.

More and more public and private institutions are severing all ties with them. Any one of these would not be a very big deal, but together they are a powerful and very loud voice from more and more of the major central institutions of the city that they no longer see the MPD as a legitimate and trustworthy institution.

Minneapolis Park Board, Park Police, First Avenue, Walker Art Center Join List Of Those Cutting Ties With Minneapolis Police

This on top of the very large University of Minnesota as well as the public school board

The politics / Re: The Trump Presidency
« on: June 04, 2020, 01:02:02 PM »
He better watch out--Trump wants to make it against the law to be against fascism!

The rest / Re: George Floyd murder and blowback
« on: June 04, 2020, 04:47:16 AM »
That's it for me tonight...

'Goodnight, you princes of Maine..."

...and the dawn...don't rescue

Consequences / Re: COVID-19
« on: June 03, 2020, 03:52:50 PM »
Is someone recovering from an illness likely to rush out and donate blood? Perhaps there is a bit of suppression from who chooses to go out and donate blood for this and perhaps other reasons?

But really, 5% is pretty much what I would expect at this point.

Do you personally know many people who have tested positive, or who had so many of the distinctive symptoms that they were pretty sure they had it?

The rest / Re: George Floyd murder and blowback
« on: June 03, 2020, 06:25:02 AM »
"...A Bible was procured for Trump from inside the church ..."

In other words, "...leader of looters of Episcopal Church identified: D.J. Trump"

The rest / Re: George Floyd murder and blowback
« on: June 03, 2020, 03:29:00 AM »
Thanks, vox

I can't fully verify all of these right now, but a lot of bad stuff is happening to citizens all over, most of which isn't hitting the presses in a big way. (One little ray of light, though, is that the Mpls School Board, pressured by the public including yours truly, just joined the University of Minnesota and others in deciding to cancel their contract with the Mpls Police Department, showing further how nearly every major educational--and other--institution in the city, and nearly all of the citizens, no longer see the MPD as a legitimate organization.)

Going around fb...any corrections or additions (beyond my own in brackets) are welcome.

'Austin police have killed a young man by shooting him in the head with bird shot rounds wrapped in cloth, and continued to shoot the medics carrying his body. They shot a known pregnant woman in the stomach, then stormed and abducted her from a medic tent. They maced young children during a peaceful daytime protest.

Detroit police have brutally beaten, tear gassed and arrested my friends peacefully protesting. A curfew is set from 8pm to 5am city wide.

Rockford police dragged people from their cars and beat them last night.

Armored police shot at people  filming them on their own balconies. [Reportedly, one NG said 'Light 'em up!' and when another hit the woman squarely in the groin with the device, he bragged, "I'm good! That musta hurt!]

An NYPD officer called a woman a "fucking bitch" and threw her on the ground. She went into a seizure and had to go to the emergency room. Then more New York cops rammed into crowds of protesters with their cars.

An Atlanta couple last night had their tires slashed, windows broken, and were dragged out of their car and tazed.

Chicago police announced a curfew and then raised the bridges out of downtown. Demonstrators were trapped and at the utter mercy of CPD roundups. A police supervisor ordered on the radio, "Gas 'em all." Over 1,000 people have been arrested.

Everywhere, journalists are being indiscriminately targeted and arrested. A Minneapolis photojournalist is blinded permanently in one eye after being hit by a less lethal round.

They've maced children. They've torn off a woman's hijab. They're turning off their body cameras and hiding their badge numbers.

La Mesa police put a Black grandmother in the ICU with a metal beanbag between the eyes at point blank on Monday.

This is just what's been documented. Imagine what hasn't been.
The true nature of American policing has been revealed for the world to see. I have never seen brutality on such a massive scale. They don't care if you're peaceful. They don't care if they're on camera.
Black and brown youth are the leaders on the ground. They are the leaders of our future. Black and brown youth are the people who are bleeding, getting beaten, and being thrown into jail. This is trauma that will last their whole lives.
To the bail funds. To the phone lines to demand release. We have to protect our people.
If you're going out there again please, and I beg you, be safe.”

The rest / Re: George Floyd murder and blowback
« on: June 03, 2020, 12:41:01 AM »
Thank you, neven

The rest / Re: George Floyd murder and blowback
« on: June 02, 2020, 10:35:39 PM »

I am now going to ignore all of your future posts.

I ask the moderators to moderate people on this post trying to foment violence and terror.
I have enough of that in my very own  front yard right now, thank you ever so much

The rest / Re: George Floyd murder and blowback
« on: June 02, 2020, 10:17:47 PM »
There are, in fact, neighbors patrolling with shotguns, but I'm not sure that makes me feel safer.

The racists are mostly chicken shits, just pulling crap to try to terrorize the neighborhood.

Organization is a far, far better weapon than guns.

One thing I have noticed that no one (I've seen) in the media is describing these violent white racists as terrorists, which is what they are.

Which itself is rather violently white racist!!


nanning wrote: "...police officers joining the protesters ..."

I can't say that this never happens in sincere ways, but I have seen over and over examples of police making sympathetic statements and gestures, then, sometimes just minutes later, firing on the protesters they claimed to be so much in support of.

We can't get tricked into thinking that what we need to do is 'get rid of bad cops, and find more good cops'.  The system from the top down is set up to punish or worse any police who call out or even criticize fellow officers who are racist; a system that also punishes or worse any officer or even police chief who tries to uphold the rights of minorities, even the minorities within the her/his own ranks of police officers.

We really do have to start from scratch. Get rid of the system that is, and try to create a new system with tons and tons of safeguards to be sure that old evils don't slip back in. Then watch like hawks constantly to be sure that they in fact don't.

The only alternative is endless protests...and sadly neither the protesters nor anyone else can insure that protests don't turn 'ugly,' as they mostly do because of police starting to riot

The rest / Re: George Floyd murder and blowback
« on: June 02, 2020, 09:00:42 PM »
The DNC and US did not go Sanders way, unfortunately. All that's left is endless protest and interupting business as usual.

This, from a neighbor, gets across well part of what we're facing here now:

So, here's the situation:

1. We have organized to protect our homes, businesses, an lives because the MPD will not do it.

2. When we do find a white supremacist, looter, or fire starter, we are supposed to call the very white supremacist organization that caused all of this, trusting them to suddenly move from laughing and mocking while they shoot, mace, and teargas our community to caring for us and protecting us from racist white men like themselves.

3. Literally at the same moments that white men in a Chevy Durango stop in an alley and shoot several rounds in the air to terrorize us, the police are arresting community members who are trying to protect our neighborhood because they won't.

At the VERY LEAST, as my friend Dahveed Zee has pointed out, the MPD should have been benched during all of this instead of being in charge of the response.

If Governor Tim Walz and Mayor Jacob Frey were genuinely interested in actual change, they would have at the very least had us deal with cops from other jurisdictions.

The rest / Re: George Floyd murder and blowback
« on: June 02, 2020, 08:30:20 PM »
Good point, Pmt.

Hundreds of businesses and public buildings have been damaged or destroyed in the last few days.

Now there is the fear that predatory f'n capitalists will buy up as much of this real estate as they can at rock bottom prices with no thought of what use would be most valuable for the suffering communities struggling to survive here.

Capitalism is not the answer, it is the problem

The rest / Re: George Floyd murder and blowback
« on: June 02, 2020, 07:11:33 PM »
Thanks, nanning

I'm not always 'beautiful,' though, especially when directly confronting racist terrorists in front of my house...can't go into that right now right here though

Made it through another tense night.

National Guard protected the one open grocery store within miles last night.

More opened up this morning.

No major fires that I've heard of around here, tho someone tried to set fire to a beloved theater and performance center right near ground of the few buildings left standing there. Some damage, but not much else.

Glad that I make someone smile though :)

Really, there has been an enormous outpouring of help: food, supplies and other support from throughout the region in the last couple days. Some food drives have been so overwhelmed with donations that they have had to hustle to find ways to get it out to areas most in need before food stuffs went bad, including one organized by my niece and nephew a couple blocks away from me.

I hope to have some time to get back to my various neglected urban gardens today, though it's gonna be a bit hot: mid 30s (C).

The rest / Re: George Floyd murder and blowback
« on: June 02, 2020, 12:56:29 AM »
Yes, bruce, in a situation made up of tens of thousands of people or more, there are going to be many varieties of folks.

But let's not resort to false equivalences.

There are orders of magnitude more folks on the extreme right ready to take things to violent levels (encouraged, for pete's sake, by the president himself) than there are on 'the left' to the extent that such a thing even exists in the US in a form recognizable to the rest of the world.

Seeing them cruising by my house long after curfew, people very unlike any that live anywhere near my neighborhood, I definitely would say all the folks I see planning and enacting violence in the neighborhood are white supremacists or some variety thereof...

“Like it’s been reported, I feel like it’s a lot of outsiders coming in,” said Dan Prentice.

He's not alone. No one recognizes these mother fuckers as being from Minneapolis. (Sorry, again, nanning, but really, what emotions would you be feeling if this were happening right this moment and for the last few days to you and your loved ones and neighbors and beloved places...?)

Some where mullets. I've lived in Mpls for 20 years (and another 10 when I was younger), and never saw anyone sporting a mullet.

White leftists do not come in from out of town to burn down black businesses in black neighborhoods unless their 'leftishness' is so twisted as to be unrecognizable as such.

This is the terror we all live under now every day. Some asshat is gonna throw a bomb on our house or a local business and literally we will be burned to death in our beds.

Few in Mpls have gotten more than a few hours of sleep in the last 36 hours or more. I'm gonna try to steal some winks now.


And may I point out that, since there really is no organization 'Antifa'--literally after all just an abbreviation of 'anti-fascists'--making them illegal is literally say making it against the law to be against fascism.

Let that sink in for a while...

The rest / Re: George Floyd murder and blowback
« on: June 01, 2020, 11:53:23 PM »
Dear Alex, I'll just point out kindly that you need to learn the difference in English between 'than' and 'then.' Everything else in your post was far more ignorant that that, but I'll just leave it there for now

ETA, ok I'll also point out that, as far as "Wili, your observations are strange,"

Wellll, my 'observations' are from the vantage point of living in the fucking neighborhood that is getting burnt to the ground. I get my observations from seeing it myself, from talking to friends, from seeing videos taken by friends...what are your 'observations' based on??? MSM??? Do you really think that is a highly reliable source of pretty much anything??? Were you born yesterday/

I don't consider looting to be particularly 'violent,' so I wasn't including that. But certainly, I don't think many of the main protesters, that were and are out risking their lives by facing, unarmed, riot police shooting bullets and canisters of poison gas at them, and percussion bombs...I really don't think that lots of those brave and virtuous souls where spending a lot of time getting free knickknacks from Target.

Back to general discussion--after spending all morning preparing chili and bags of groceries to hand out to people in need, then checking my house perimeter for hidden incendiaries, since new ones had been found this wife and I stole a sliver of semi-normalcy, since some restaurants and bars had opened for outside dining...we went to a brewery that had excellent brew and knots of baked dough with an excellent marinara sauce. We could almost pretend that we weren't likely to get incinerated in our sleep tonight in the midst of a deadly pandemic...:)

Thanks, nan. I actually would prefer suffocating to incinerating, but...may not have a choice. Emotions have been hard to deal with, but yeah, I try to keep some sense of humor, even in these extreme times. My Somali  and other African American neighbors are, of course, terrorized to a much greater degree than I am or could ever imagine.

Prospect of imminent death does make one appreciate each day, though.

And thanks all for the many informative and well informed posts. We will shortly be under total military control, it seems. I have not held out much hope for democracy in this country, but that will really put the last nail in that coffin.

ETA: Oh, and they just announced that an independent coroner determined that George Floyd died of 'mechanical asphyxiation,' basically a fancy name for being strangled to death, but I'm sure someone will try to split some kind of meaningless hairs here.

The rest / Re: George Floyd murder and blowback
« on: June 01, 2020, 01:46:34 PM »
Nanning. Thanks for your concern. Yes, I've been helping out elderly neighbors, and things have gotten quite organized on a number of local levels

Did wet down everything night before last, including my own house, roof and foliage/trees as well as those of three neighbors on both sides (some out of town, one and empty building).

To exhausted to do it all again last night.

Foliage will mostly grow back, probably, eventually

The rest / Re: George Floyd murder and blowback
« on: June 01, 2020, 05:24:54 AM »
Thanks, oren. Just glad that my daughter is in the relatively stable Netherlands (though she keeps saying she's gonna get on the next plane home since there's so much going on now in here once sleepy little midwestern city! )

The rest / Re: George Floyd murder and blowback
« on: June 01, 2020, 04:56:56 AM »
Thanks for the concern, oren. Neighbors and police are finding incediary devices behind and even in front of lots of businesses.

Just now I heard that folks right in my immediate neighborhood are finding the same hidden in bushes next to houses.

This is a very carefully planned military attack on a usually very quiet neighborhood, mostly white, but with plenty of East Africans, Native Americans, Latinx...Lots of teachers, artist, and professionals of all sorts along with of course people in the vast service industries.

It might not come tonight, but I suspect in the next very few nights there will be a vast and very well coordinated attack not just on businesses, but on neighborhoods full of houses with children, elderly, sick...

Many will die.

I hope I'm wrong, but these guys certainly are working very hard toward this end.

Two truck loads of white guys were spotted jumping out and trying to start a local library on fire. Luckily, they were stopped.

A bunch of men in military type fatigues but clearly not actually military, heavily armed, were seen moving into a nearby park.

So, yeah, I'm still alive, but lacking sleep. Only a couple hours last night. A bit of a nap this afternoon.

I do think that part of the strategy is psychological, to wear residents down with the fatigue of trying to be constantly alert...for days.

Alex wrote: "...Most where far right protesters dressed as africans..." So why are you calling them protesters when  they clearly were anything but. And why are you even looking at f'n Breitbart?

ETA: One of the neighborhood patrol members (who has to break curfew to patrol, so theoretically subject to $1000 fee and or some jail time) just told me that one of the bottles of propellants was found today right at the end of my block. So we are definitely being targeted right here. Unfortunately, I have too much foliage in my yard to adequately search through it all.

If I make it through the night, I'll have to spend a big chunk of tomorrow cutting down all my beautiful native and non-native plants that long ago i replaced my lawn with

The rest / Re: George Floyd murder and blowback
« on: May 30, 2020, 04:01:25 AM »

i had heard about the predator drone...seems to be a real thing

as someone living in the belly of the mother fucking beast...i would love to hear anyone's perspectives, but esp vox's...

I just climbed up ladders, which i hate, to wet down my and my fled neighbors rooves...which i hate.

I'm pretty sure i will die suffocating on fumes in my sleep tonight.

best to all

sorry i was never a sliver of what Terry delivered to all...bye

The rest / Re: George Floyd murder and blowback
« on: May 29, 2020, 06:07:36 AM »
Yup, just down the street from where I live, the people have reversed the usual flow of violence--top to bottom--to the opposite direction.

Still just 'pawns in their game,' but not something that happens every day in America or the world.

The rest / Re: George Floyd murder and blowback
« on: May 28, 2020, 09:15:20 PM »
AM2...bless your heart

Do you even know what you're looking at

The first video shows the Autozone store that an undercover cop broke the window of and may have started the fire, then ran off after being confronted by peaceful protesters. The video shows very brave protesters risking their lives trying to PUT OUT the fire, unfortunately unsuccessfully.

Don't believe everything you think

In any case, if you're more concerned with corporate property (insured, no one's losing money here) than with Black lives, then you ARE the problem, sir/ma'am.


A bit of context, too...cop snipers were firing on brave, unarmed protesters from roofs all day. They had to set up a makeshift MASH unit in a local store to try to treat the 100+ badly wounded. No ambulances would come.

The police department has lost all legitimacy with pretty much every individual and institution in the city and beyond, including the University of Minnesota, which has formally cut off any ties it had with the dept.

Legislators and other office holders are currently drawing up plans to totally defund the entire department

You can just keep killing and killing and killing citizens for absolutely no reason and expect there to never be any reprecussions.

We have protested vehemently and non-violently for decades, but we can now always control the real fury of the masses.

And please don't assume that there is much overlap between the looters and the actual protesters in the street, who were mostly amazingly disciplined and courageous in the line of continuous fire.

A lot of people are gonna take advantage of a chaotic situation. By late in the evening, it was pretty much the gangs who had taken over the streets. They also, of course, have very little love for the cops, but are a very different crowd from the protesters.

But yeah, its hard when it has come to this. I'm glad the residential part of my neighborhood was mostly spared. But I know a guy who is probably homeless now because of this.

It is completely possible to not condone the loss of property while having some understanding of the immediate and longer term circumstances that lead to it taking place...can we handle that kind of subtlety?

The politics / Re: Economic Inequality
« on: May 28, 2020, 08:25:52 PM »
Thanks, blum

Consequences / Re: Places becoming less livable
« on: May 28, 2020, 05:57:56 PM »
From a friend of my daughter's who was there:

For my friends outside of Minneapolis:
I’m not sure what news outlets are saying about last nights events, but since I’m sure it’s not accurate, here is what I want observed as someone who was at the protest from 5pm till early in the morning
-when I showed up, the protest was a large group of people passing around a microphone, expressing their emotions to the crowd around them
-while this was happening, police on the rooftop of the precinct were shooting rubber bullets into the fringes of the crowd, unprovoked
-people began throwing water bottles at the precinct, and in retaliation the police shot a dozen cans of tear gas into the crowd
-I watched as people who were kneeling on the ground in front of the barricade created by police, had flash grenades go off literally a few feet away from their face
-I then watched as police walked up to these people, peacefully sitting on the ground, and mace them, point blank
-I saw a man get hit in the side of the face with a can of tear gas fired from less than ten feet away
-I watched as community leaders attempted to guard local businesses, to keep out people who had come from outside our community
-police continued to shoot into the crowd indiscriminately, often times unprovoked. Heavy use of tear gas and literally thousands of rubber bullets
-police escalated the situation to the point of where local businesses turned their store front into medical aid stations and triage centers for protestors who were badly injured from police force

Consequences / Re: Places becoming less livable
« on: May 28, 2020, 05:47:17 PM »
Well, a good part of my neighborhood became less livable last night. A bunch of it burned to the ground.

The biggest of these fires was five block from my house on my street. Flames very visible from my front yard going far up into the sky and lending a red glow to the cloudy and smoky night sky.

Fortunately hit did not spread into much of the residential area. One guy I know is out of a home, though. Looting happened pretty much throughout the city.

With no charges to the cop who killed the handcuffed suspect lying on the ground, I can't see where or when this will end.

See Unicorn Riot or for on the ground brave coverage. Most of the main stream reporters pulled out when the going got rough

Consequences / Re: Places becoming less livable
« on: May 27, 2020, 02:32:48 AM »
and...the gift that keeps on giving...

there is more than one way that places can become unlivable...

when the police force that is supposed to be there to protect you is in fact murdering citizens in broad day light, things are getting pretty un- f'n- livable, in my book...

this happened a couple k from my house, near where we go out to eat and where my brother and sister and I went to school:

4 Minneapolis cops fired after video shows one kneeling on neck of black man who later died

Me and many that I know, white, black, asian...we are just beyond...we all protested like crazy just a few years ago when Philando Castile was shot pointblank for no f'n reason, also just a couple k from my house. Now this. Protested to night again. Nothings changed. Nothings ever gonna f'n change....

Sorry, nanning, man, about the swearing, but fuck, these are my brothers and neighbors being just killed in the street for just walking around. We gotta stop this shit somehow

Consequences / Re: COVID-19
« on: May 26, 2020, 05:16:20 PM »

Real estate firms and landlords using loophole to rake in millions in COVID-19 federal aid: WSJ

“Because most real-estate firms are private, tracking the number of aid recipients or the total amount of funds the industry has received is next to impossible, say real-estate attorneys and accountants,” the Journal reports.

 “But they are aware of at least dozens of property companies that have received in aggregate tens of millions of dollars or more because of a legal loophole that allows them to apply through related business units, such as management companies or construction companies.”

Consequences / Re: Places becoming less livable
« on: May 26, 2020, 12:19:44 AM »

People should read Andrew Simms 'Ecological Debt' (or any of dozens of other well-researched books that document the massive theft of wealth from Africa and elsewhere by Europe and the US, and related issues) before embarrassing themselves further, imvho   :)

"... the Global North is much more indebted to the Global South.

... the 500-year-long colonization process involving the extraction of resources has caused immense damage and destruction to the ecosystem of the Global South.[6]

In fact, scientists at the US National Academy for Sciences state that in the time period of 1961–2000, by analyzing the cost of greenhouse gas emissions created by the rich (the Global North) alone, it has become apparent that the rich have imposed climate changes on the poor that greatly outweigh the poor's foreign debt.[7]

 All of this environmental degradation amounts to ecological debt, seizing the people's livelihood resources in the Global South. "

Consequences / Re: Places becoming less livable
« on: May 26, 2020, 12:13:17 AM »
People should read Andrew Simms 'Ecological Debt' (or any of dozens of other well-researched books that document the massive theft of wealth from Africa and elsewhere by Europe and the US, and related issues) before embarrassing themselves further, imvho   :)

Consequences / Re: COVID-19
« on: May 24, 2020, 03:33:08 PM »
Thanks, blum. I hadn't heard of cholera riots...something to add to my possible course on language and disease.


The numbers are in — and the rich are making out like bandits during this pandemic

...analysis of Federal Reserve data shows a record flow of greenbacks let the corporate rich pour trillions of dollars into their accounts as they fired tens of millions.

The rest / Re: Good music
« on: May 20, 2020, 09:25:03 PM »
Not called 'You Got It,' but could have been...

The rest / Re: Pareidolia
« on: May 18, 2020, 09:42:32 PM »
The giant rats on the left are staring at the languid dancers in the center :)

(When do we get the diagnosis from our rorschach tests?? )  :o

The rest / Re: Good music
« on: May 15, 2020, 08:19:44 PM »
Apologies to nan

The politics / Re: The American Progressive Movement
« on: May 14, 2020, 07:17:34 PM »

 ;D ;D ;D

The politics / Re: The American Progressive Movement
« on: May 14, 2020, 06:29:54 PM »
Actually, I'm not sure you can really discuss the history of the American progressive movement without discussing theology and religion at some point. So I don't think your discussions were completely off topic, even if how it came up seemed a bit abrupt.

People associate religiosity with (a particular faction of) the right wing in the US, but of course there are strong church foundations of left wing activists, especially from the Black community.

But I'll leave it there, if you all want to move on.

The forum / Re: Forum Decorum
« on: May 13, 2020, 03:36:55 PM »
"Swear words are to language what potent spices are to food."

Nicely put. Of course, some of us like us a bit more potent spice than others  ;D

I keep a jar of cayenne pepper powder next to the salt and pepper and us it only slightly less than the other two. So...frequently, but of course never in huge doses.

The forum / Re: Forum Decorum
« on: May 13, 2020, 11:52:26 AM »
I will endeavor to honor oren's wish, and apologize ahead of time if I lapse at some point.

But may I point out that Greta Thunberg is a child and Batman was a show for children. We are presumably adults here and should be able to handle occasional  use of 'adult language.' Most of the women I know swear or are not put off by swearing, and the most educated swear the most.

Maybe the site should have a warning as is on some movies: "There may be some language" !!  ;D

The rest / Re: Archaeology/Paleontology news
« on: May 11, 2020, 11:20:40 PM »

Humans and Neanderthals 'co-existed in Europe for far longer than thought'

Cave objects suggest modern humans and Neanderthals shared continent for several thousand years

Modern humans were present in Europe at least 46,000 years ago, according to new research on objects found in Bulgaria, meaning they overlapped with Neanderthals for far longer than previously thought.

Researchers say remains and tools found at a cave called Bacho Kiro reveal that modern humans and Neanderthals were present at the same time in Europe for several thousand years, giving them ample time for biological and cultural interaction...

Consequences / Re: COVID-19
« on: May 10, 2020, 07:40:50 PM »
This seems like an interesting approach to starting to loosen the social side of restrictions a bit:

Belgium experiments with 'corona bubbles' to ease social restrictions

From Sunday, every household in Belgium can invite up to four guests to their home. Two sets of four people make a “corona bubble”, who can visit each other’s homes. No one else is allowed into the domestic social circle. ..

Can any Belgians on the site tell us what people are thinking about this and if they are planning to do it?

on the potential length of disease, oogling around, i found: "...In severe cases, recovery can take six weeks or more" (my emphasis)

With up to two weeks from infection to first symptoms, this gets us in range of someone potentially having the virus in them for nine weeks. I would imagine that such cases are relatively rare, but don't have stats and links on hand to give well supported details.

Consequences / Re: COVID-19
« on: May 10, 2020, 07:01:12 PM »
Yes, SH, you would be sorely missed.

Please come back after a break, if you need it

nanning, thanks for the insights. If people know of disease curses in other languages, pm me, please to prevent us going further off topic

Consequences / Re: COVID-19
« on: May 10, 2020, 06:14:56 AM »
People curse based on what they fear. As I understand it, and please correct me Dutch folk on the forum, two common curses in the Netherlands, whether you are cursing your enemy or the step you just stubbed your toe against, are 'cancer' and 'tb'

Widespread diseases that cause massive death and suffering do not need any institutions to create fear around them. They do that all by themselves, and have for centuries...milllennia...

We'll see if 'COVID!' becomes a new Dutch curse in the near future. Since AIDS apparently did not, perhaps modern Dutch folk are beyond such rather obscene linguistic uses of deadly diseases, but maybe...

Consequences / Re: COVID-19
« on: May 10, 2020, 03:27:34 AM »
Sorry, I mis-remembered. It has likely been though, higher than any other single cause of death for the last few weeks.

60 days ago, this virus infection [SARS-CoV-2] was not even among the top 75 causes of death in the United States....For the last week and a half, it's been the number [one] cause of death day after day after day. That's serious. This is not the flu

Though, you could claim it is only 'technically' true:

CDC spokesman Brian Tsai said in an email.

...that for some weeks, it is the leading cause for those particular weeks

if you look at the number of total deaths caused by heart disease reported in 2018 (647,457) and divide that by 365 (the number of days in a year) you get about 1,774 deaths per day. On April 20, Worldometer reported 1,939 coronavirus deaths across the U.S.

"Covid-19 is now the leading cause of death in the United States."

That’s true only if you compare the number of people dying of coronavirus daily against estimates of other causes from previous years.

Seems like a pretty good way to do it, to me.

Consequences / Re: COVID-19
« on: May 09, 2020, 11:16:47 PM »
gandul, you miss my point. I wasn't claiming that if regular folk eat meat they may get the virus--as far as we can tell it isn't food born (though, as you say, handling freshly killed infected animals is not a good idea).

If you buy most commercial meat, you support an industry that does all sorts of harms. If there was no or very little meat eating, we would not have these huge meat packing plants that seem to be acting as bit incubators for the virus because of conditions.

On top of everything else, heavy meat eaters now have this new wave of the virus spread to rest on their already burdened consciences...


Neven, I see that even your favorite MSM corporation, MSNBC (  ;D ) is covering how the rich are getting richer during the covid crisis:

Over 33 million Americans have filed for unemployment insurance in the last two months, raising the official unemployment rate to 14.7%.

MSNBC anchor Joy Reid noted a post by Warren Gunnels showing that the eight richest men in America have increased their wealth by over $6 billion dollars — in one day.

The list included Mark Zuckerberg, Larry Page, Bill Gates, Sergey Brin, Larry Ellison, Warren Buffett, and Steve Ballmer.

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