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Messages - wili

Pages: [1] 2 3
1
Science / Re: 2019 Mauna Loa CO2 levels
« on: November 29, 2019, 11:29:46 PM »
Well, it only took like...what...ten posts basically repeating (more eloquently) my basic point before Hef finally conceded the point... :)

But in the midst, we got a nicely thought out and worded piece from Sam, which included centrally:

"...The fundamental basis of the current economic paradigm is growth.

The fundamental basis of all or nearly all religions is growth..."

This, I believe, is true.

But it's even more fundamental than that. The whole global culture (industrial, capitalist, consumerist...whatever combination you want to call it) is primarily geared to annihilation of life on the planet and destruction of the processes that have supported said life for millions to hundreds of millions of years.

There is pretty close to a one-to-one correspondence to who gets the most money and who is most centrally and powerfully involved in this destruction (with only a few exceptions that I am aware of).

High finance has always supported the fastest and biggest return for the buck, which nearly always has meant the fastest way to convert the natural integrity of the planet into local and/or global toxic waste. These are the folks that get some of the biggest pay on the planet.

Arms manufacturers are up there, too.

And so on down the line, with some getting good pay for just doing the very 'important' work of distracting us from the astonishing abyss we are throwing ourselves and the planet into so we don't stop consuming or start revolting....

2
Science / Re: 2019 Mauna Loa CO2 levels
« on: November 28, 2019, 05:37:11 AM »
?
Am I missing something?

None of the lines in his graph are pointing downward, so they do not indicate a decrease in the rate of growth.

Perhaps the rate of acceleration of increase is not increasing. If you want to squeeze some kind of comfort out of that, be my guest.

But maybe someone who has taken math more recently than 45 some years ago should chime in here before I embarrass myself further?? :)

3
Policy and solutions / Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« on: November 05, 2019, 03:05:44 PM »
Ideally, of course, the government is in the hands of the people, and (ideally again) no one person has extraordinary influence over government if monetary power were kept fairly equal.

Ideally...

4
The rest / Re: Astronomical news
« on: November 05, 2019, 03:01:54 PM »
Me too. I remember them being animals. The rabbit, as I recall, could also hear things from a very far distance. The moral of the story is now lost to me, though.

5
Policy and solutions / Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« on: November 05, 2019, 04:42:33 AM »
"I don’t think we should concede the term “neoliberalism” to the brutish establishment using state power to redistribute wealth from the haves to the have-nots."

Did he get that last part switched around, or am I missing something here?

6
The rest / Re: Archaeology/Paleontology news
« on: November 05, 2019, 04:36:04 AM »
"Beats clay tablets..."

Really? Wouldn't we need to wait 5-6000 years to know if that's true?

Clay tablets are at once immediately accessible (assuming you know the script and the language...which...we're all up on our cuneiform and Sumerian grammar, right?), and yet also has proven to be extremely durable (unless crushed into dust by the US stupidly and needlessly launching multiple invasions of the areas where these ancient civilizations evolved).

But yeah, you can fit a lot of useless, stupid movies on the glass versions...whether distant future generations will be impressed by this we will never know, but I have my doubts.

7
Policy and solutions / Re: Electric cars
« on: October 21, 2019, 05:04:33 PM »
I tend to agree with @socketwench:

Quote
I don't want self-driving cars.

I want boring things like public transit that comes so regularly you don't have to check a schedule.

...I want cities that aren't built around [f'n] cars-as-default.

8
Consequences / Re: The Holocene Extinction
« on: October 12, 2019, 07:08:01 PM »
I don't follow.

If this is mostly from ag products, where is the carbon sink. Maybe in the areas converting to no-till it could be, but where they are practicing traditional modern ag practices, there will be very little if any carbon sink...more likely carbon loss from degraded soils.

But perhaps I'm missing something here?

9
The rest / Re: The Trump Presidency
« on: October 02, 2019, 09:28:45 PM »
Follow up on a study posted earlier that showed that countries with large wealth gaps are more likely to move toward authoritarian leadership:

Top 1% Gained $21 Trillion in Wealth Since 1989 While Bottom Half Lost $900 Billion


"The top one percent owns nearly $30 trillion of assets while the bottom half owns less than nothing."

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2019/06/14/eye-popping-analysis-shows-top-1-gained-21-trillion-wealth-1989-while-bottom-half?utm_campaign=shareaholic&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR3umsUSAD5uBpa0PDn25n4k6kM_93kM3CO-5ftTMyf8sv5XBzqCJRcGc_M

10
The rest / Re: The Trump Presidency
« on: October 02, 2019, 12:45:20 AM »
https://ctmirror.org/2019/09/27/blumenthal-optimistic-about-gop-support-in-senate-for-impeachment/

Blumenthal optimistic about GOP support in Senate for impeachment
Privately, Republican senators are 'deeply troubled' by events, he says



https://www.newsweek.com/flake-35-republicans-possibilities-1461952

Former Senator Jeff Flake caused a stir Saturday when he amended Republican consultant Mike Murphy's comment that 30 GOP senators would vote to impeach President Donald Trump if they could keep their votes secret. "That's not true," the former Arizona senator told Slate's Mary Harris. "There would be at least 35."

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/09/mitch-mcconnell-impeachment-inquiry-in-the-senate-chief-justice-oversees.html

Why Mitch McConnell Can’t “Garland” the Impeachment Inquiry
The presiding officer in an impeachment case is actually the chief justice of the United States.


Sooo, Mitch can't keep it from coming to the Senate, and a majority want to see Trump impeached. None of us know what is going to happen. But we are in unprecedented times in many ways.

11
Policy and solutions / Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
« on: September 30, 2019, 09:59:51 PM »
Steve writes: "We shouldn't pigeon-hole all poor individuals as the being the same..."

But then immediately turns around and pigeon-holes every poor person as being the same: "What poor person doesn't want to be less poor? "

WTF?

12
The rest / Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« on: September 30, 2019, 06:13:04 AM »
Up until about the '80, the poor generally had healthier diets, too. Rice and beans and greens is a pretty darn healthy basis for a diet. But with McDonaldization of cheap food and various aspects of the ag bill pushing carbohydrate calories over fruits and veggies, things went down hill fast.

The Powell Memo (or Manifesto) is said to have been the turning point in the super rich deciding to take over society more completely than they had done up to that point.

13
The rest / Re: Elections 2020 USA
« on: September 29, 2019, 03:59:40 PM »
The tides are shifting quickly.

"...increases in support for impeachment ...The Morning Consult poll saw an increase from 66 percent to 79 percent among Democratic voters, 33 percent to 39 percent among Independent voters, and 5 percent to 10 percent among Republican voters..."

https://www.vox.com/2019/9/27/20886877/impeachment-polls-voter-support-growing-nancy-pelosi-donald-trump

Engaging in a very well justified lawful constitutional process that was designed by the founders to curb abuses of power in the highest office in the land is far from 'getting into slime.'

It is, in fact, a constitutional and patriotic duty. And it is very sad, indeed, that it has come to the point that such ultimate measures now must be taken in the face of such overwhelming corruption.

14
The rest / Re: The Trump Presidency
« on: September 29, 2019, 03:32:30 AM »
Yeah, I think that's called 'whataboutism,' and its a poor attempt at dodging blame, whoever uses it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

(Context, for those who don't memorize every line of every story they ever read about Trump:

"On election interference, Trump told Lavrov and Kislyak he was not concerned about Russian meddling because the United States did the same in other countries" 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-whistleblower-russia/trump-told-russians-in-2017-he-was-not-concerned-about-election-meddling-washington-post-idUSKBN1WD022
)

15
Consequences / Re: Sea Level Rise and Social Cost of Carbon
« on: September 28, 2019, 03:37:09 PM »
"We should have marched on the streets demanding change 30 years ago instead of sitting and waiting for somebody to fix everyting."

Well, some of 'us' did.

16
Consequences / Re: Worst consequence of AGW
« on: September 27, 2019, 09:46:58 PM »
"Almost anything that has increased in recent decades could be “correlated” with climate change.  That does mean there is any connection.  Teen suicides are on the rise, but I doubt there are a result of global climate changes."

Yes, correlation, of course, by itself, does not prove causation. But for your particular example there is other evidence that there may, in fact, be causation going on between increased suicides and increased numbers of extremely hot days:

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/07/high-temperatures-cause-suicide-rates-to-increase/565826/

Climate Change May Cause 26,000 More U.S. Suicides by 2050


Unusually hot days have profound effects on mental health and human physiology.

17
Yes, thanks kas, and nan, too! I just found out that my daughter is going with friends.

18
The rest / Re: The Trump Presidency
« on: September 27, 2019, 03:42:54 AM »
Soooo, I guess those of you who think impeachment is stupid must think that Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Bernie Sanders are idiots, and have been for two some years. Right?

Oh, and Amy Goodman, too, among many, many other strong, brave progressives...

https://www.truthdig.com/articles/trump-has-committed-a-laundry-list-of-impeachable-offenses/

19
The rest / Re: The Trump Presidency
« on: September 26, 2019, 05:47:50 AM »
This non-corporate Dem seems to be ready for impeachment:

Ocasio-Cortez on impeachment: 'I think the ground has shifted'


https://thehill.com/homenews/house/463134-ocasio-cortez-on-impeachment-i-think-the-ground-has-shifted

Quote
...Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y.) said Wednesday the “ground has shifted” in terms of support for a possible impeachment of President Trump.

The freshman congresswoman said new allegations about Trump asking Ukraine for information on former Vice President Joe Biden are “incredibly serious and urgent.”

“I think the ground has shifted,” Ocasio-Cortez said Wednesday on CNN. 

Ocasio-Cortez told host Chris Cuomo the new allegations are more pressing than previous allegations of Trump’s misconduct in part because "this is about something that is going to happen."

“We have the opportunity to act now to prevent a profoundly destabilizing action,” she added.

The congresswoman said it is important to continue investigating other violations too...


Also: New Poll Shows Majority of Americans Support Trump Impeachment if President Suspended Ukraine Aid Over Biden Inquiry


Quote
If it's found that Trump did use his presidential power to force a foreign leader to help take down a political rival, 55 percent of U.S. adults said they would support removing him from office, according to a recent YouGov survey.

Forty-four percent of those polled said they'd "strongly support" removing Trump if the allegations are true, while another 11 percent said they'd "somewhat support" it.

https://www.newsweek.com/most-americans-support-impeachment-trump-ukraine-biden-controversy-1461283

20
The rest / Re: The Trump Presidency
« on: September 26, 2019, 04:23:05 AM »
Yeah...you couldn't make this stuff up. It's beyond farce. Even the show Veep wouldn't put that in their plots, since it would seem so improbable and implausible...but there it is.

Meanwhile:

https://www.msnbc.com/andrea-mitchell-reports/watch/-one-republican-senator-told-me-if-it-was-a-secret-vote-30-republican-senators-would-vote-to-impeach-trump-69890117795


GOP operative now thinks there are enough Republican Senate votes to convict and remove Donald Trump


https://www.palmerreport.com/analysis/enough-votes-republican-senate-convict-donald-trump/21118/

Quote
Republican operative Mike Murphy, who has worked for the likes of John McCain and Mitt Romney and clearly has connections in the Republican Senate, appeared on MSNBC today and said that according to his sources, if a secret ballot were to be held, as many as thirty Republican Senators would vote in favor of Trump’s removal if articles were sent over from the House...

21
Consequences / Re: Worst consequence of AGW
« on: September 25, 2019, 08:32:35 PM »
Thanks, Tom. I just thought maybe you were well acquainted with a number of folks that fit that description and may have an idea about how they tick.

I have an uncle who was a research scientist in hematology and later a dean of a major medical school, so very much a lover of science in most regards, but he still (now in his 90s) does not accept the science of AGW.

His ideology just seemed to be too much of a blinder in this case, apparently.

22
The rest / Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« on: September 25, 2019, 08:17:42 PM »
Wow! We are such f'n manipulable, impressionable twits!

Such pattern recognition impulses were obviously adaptive on the whole over our evolutionary journey...maybe not so much now?

23
Consequences / Re: Worst consequence of AGW
« on: September 25, 2019, 07:53:09 PM »
I'm not sure whether it was Tom or someone else that first posted this, but I'd like to hear some of Tom's reflections on it:

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/climate-change-poll_n_5d87ab74e4b0849d472adbb3

Every Group Except Older Republicans Is Concerned About Climate Change
Most Americans want the U.S. to take a global leadership role on climate change, but only about a quarter think the country is doing so.


As an older (I assume, perhaps wrongly?) Republican who is bucking this trend, perhaps you could give us insights into why so many from this segment seem so intent on ignoring science. Thanks ahead of time.

24
The rest / Re: Systemic Isolation
« on: September 25, 2019, 07:47:00 PM »
Thanks, nan.

I should know more about this stuff. A highschool friend of mine, who I used to talk with about this stuff back when neither of us knew much about it, went on to help in the discovery of the Higgs boson 'God Particle.' I have obviously not kept up!  :-\

25
The rest / Re: Good music
« on: September 25, 2019, 05:34:06 AM »
Cohen's songs used to seem rather dark to me...now they just seem like accurate reportage on the state of things:


26
The rest / Re: The Trump Presidency
« on: September 25, 2019, 01:14:12 AM »
"...inflate the Trump vote..."

Can you guys really do no better than rehashing the idiotic blather that mindless tv pundits spew?

The number of ways this is different than Clinton are so myriad...I don't even know where to start.

I won't bother, since you all don't really seem interested in a serious conversation about all this.

How can people think so clearly about climate and Arctic ice, yet have such shallow (nicest word I could conjure up at the moment :) ) 'analyses' of these matters?

27
The rest / Re: The Trump Presidency
« on: September 25, 2019, 12:14:16 AM »
Ummmm, I would call it more of a constitutional duty.

Time will tell if it was a political mistake.

28
The rest / Re: The Trump Presidency
« on: September 24, 2019, 11:41:55 PM »
And now Pelosi has just announced that impeachment proceedings are officially initiated.

https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/trump-ukraine-09-24-2019/index.html

30
Policy and solutions / Re: Tesla glory/failure
« on: September 24, 2019, 01:34:49 AM »
I have much I could say to GSY and NeilT, but for now, I'll just  quote Gretta: "How dare you!"

31
The rest / Re: Good music
« on: September 22, 2019, 01:23:01 AM »
Apologies if this was already posted (my quick perusal didn't find it on the thread). Like some other message songs from decades ago...the messages just seems that much more poignant now:

"Oh, this world is burning fast.
Oh, this world will never last.
I don't want to lose it..."

Cat Stevens/Yusuf Islam, of course.

(First go through is sung in Latin!)

https://www.soundbae.com/o-caritas/by-cat-stevens

32
Does anyone have news about climate actions today in The Netherlands?

33
Consequences / Re: Prepping for Collapse
« on: September 20, 2019, 02:32:19 AM »
"milestone of verbosity"

Terry, it's not just quantity...as you prove here, you, like our fearless leader, have the best words! :)

34
Policy and solutions / Re: Renewable Energy
« on: September 20, 2019, 02:29:55 AM »
r worte: " I can understand the issue with the usage of the name Pocahontas, a native woman kidnapped and raped by a white man (not the fairy story peddled by Disney and others). I will use "Fake Indigenous" in the future"

Thanks, but please note that she does, in fact, have some indigenous dna: https://www.factcheck.org/2018/10/the-facts-on-elizabeth-warrens-dna-test/

"Prime Minister enjoyed applying black and brown face multiple times in his adult life. I knew that was wrong in my youth in the 1970s and 1980s so there is no excuse."

That was exactly my reaction to this news. WTF. It's one thing for whites in the deep US South to be totally clueless about how offensive this was. But by the '70s, pretty much everyone else had figured this out.

(OK, enough OT for now. Thanks, again)

35
Policy and solutions / Re: Renewable Energy
« on: September 20, 2019, 12:29:49 AM »
rboyd, please avoid using Trump's racist rhetoric here. Thank you.

36
Science / Re: Magnitude of future warming
« on: September 19, 2019, 05:54:30 PM »
How's that been workin' for ya?

Since the 'triumph' of global capitalism some 40 years ago, general consumption and ff burning have accelerated greatly. All to the detriment of the planet and its/our future.

Individuals tend to make self-interested decisions generally based on the short term.

And of course mega-corporations' decisions tend to be even more short term, and they do everything they can to convince individuals to keep their decision making very, very short term.

To paraphrase James Lovelock: Leaving the health of the globe to capitalism is like leaving the care of a garden to goats. 

37
Science / Re: Magnitude of future warming
« on: September 19, 2019, 05:24:35 PM »
H wrote: "It's unimaginable..." Your ability or inability to imagine something has, of course, no bearing on whether it is true. Try to avoid common fallacies: https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Argument_from_incredulity

H wrote: " Capitalist mankind will not let it happen."

WTF?

38
The rest / Re: Good music
« on: September 18, 2019, 06:41:37 PM »
The original said: "How does it feel when you got no herb?"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pass_the_Dutchie

39
The rest / Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« on: September 17, 2019, 03:49:56 AM »
(not very) subtly sexist

40
Policy and solutions / Re: Water Resource Management
« on: September 16, 2019, 02:42:12 PM »
Thanks for this.

More proof that, for some people, no amount of evidence, even 'evidence' that destroys their lives and their towns, will convince some people to discard a cherished ideology.

If devastating droughts don't change their minds, I really doubt a Blue Ocean Event will.

41
Policy and solutions / Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
« on: September 13, 2019, 01:34:46 AM »
Phil, Gorillas in the Mist is a book and then movie about Dian Fossey, another of Leakey's 'Trimates.' Jane Goodall studied chimps.


42
The rest / Re: Is Man the "Unnatural Animal?"
« on: September 08, 2019, 08:32:14 PM »
Riiiight.

So, as you say, he is having some humor making fun of indigenous peoples and their cultures as well as environmentalists...yeah, those folks who are getting killed in droves by oppressive regimes worldwide for trying to defend ecosystems that pretty much everyone else acts as if they don't give a sh!t about. Talk about punching down!

Folks like Bolsonaro must get a lot of comfort and chuckles out of this kind of thing.

I think I'll take a pass on reading further from someone with such a disgusting sense of humor. Thanks. :)

43
The rest / Re: Is Man the "Unnatural Animal?"
« on: September 08, 2019, 04:41:19 PM »
"The lesson hammered into us is... we are borrowing from the future, so one should treat our Earth with respect, as something ultimately sacred..."

Again, clearly a lie.

No one treats the Earth as sacred, outside of some indigenous peoples perhaps.

And if he or anyone else thinks that some kind of extreme reverence for the community of life is the greatest (or even a great) threat to the world, they are deeply cracked (at least on this point), in my humble estimation.

44
The rest / Re: Is Man the "Unnatural Animal?"
« on: September 08, 2019, 03:42:52 AM »
"He's rejecting the ideological structure that views "Mother Nature" as a benevolent parent..."

But swallowing whole, apparently, the much more toxic and dominant 'ideological structure' that sees 'Mother Nature' (here, apparently openly embracing some kind of mythology) as simply 'red in tooth and claw.'

Yes, evolution has been punctuated every few tens of millions of years or more by a few large mass extinctions (and a number of smaller ones). But in any given set of millennia, what is most likely to happen is a gradual increase in the number and variety of species and so the robustness of life.

Humans life on this kind of time scale tens of millennia, not tens of millions of years. So in the relevant scale, 'Mother Nature' if we must use such terminology, is indeed likely to be in some kind of balance...at least it/she was until, this time, we (and specifically modern industrial consumerist civilization) came along to overturn the whole apple cart.

Zizek is a smart guy, but some seem to take his every word as some kind of gospel, which I find rather dangerous. Everyone has blind spots, and this pretty clearly and glaringly is one of his.

45
Arctic sea ice / Re: When will the Arctic Go Ice Free?
« on: September 07, 2019, 11:39:52 PM »
We are not measuring the same thing as we were ten or so years ago.

Then, we were mostly measuring ice. Now we are more and more measuring slush.


47
Consequences / Re: Hurricane Season 2019
« on: September 05, 2019, 05:21:58 AM »
One commentator equated it to a third grader scribbling on his report card to try to alter a grade. Again, psychiatrists are asserting that there needs to be a thorough evaluation of the POTUS's mental competence for the security of the country: https://www.rawstory.com/2019/09/psychiatrists-demand-full-evaluation-to-determine-if-trump-suffers-from-any-of-multiple-different-disorders/

48
Policy and solutions / Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
« on: September 02, 2019, 03:37:47 AM »
Thanks for the thoughtful and informative response, Rodius.

As the saying goes, some people need to stop believing everything they think! :)

49
Consequences / Re: Hurricane Season 2019
« on: August 30, 2019, 08:44:22 PM »
Eric Holthaus is saying this could become a coastal flooding catastrophe, from Miami to NoCarolina

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/hurricane-dorian_n_5d68be08e4b02bc6bb37451e

50
The rest / Re: Are you hoping for a global civilisational collapse?
« on: August 29, 2019, 07:39:51 PM »
"...invention of the alphabet..."

Yeah, after they lost the knowledge of writing for a few hundred years.

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