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Sigmetnow

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Re: The Hyperloop
« Reply #50 on: November 08, 2016, 04:42:00 PM »
Amazing concept video at the link!  Note the (display screen?) depiction of the view outside as the pod travels across the desert -- the Hyperloop tubes are metal, so that's not a window....  :)   I suppose such a display system could come in handy to hide a future hellish landscape.  ;)

Hyperloop One unveils its entire system, announces deal to bring network to Dubai
But now we are talking about bringing a full passenger and cargo system, first between Dubai and Abu Dhabi, and it will later likely connect with other Emirate. While Hyperloop One’s previous government deals appeared to be all about “exploring” the implementation of hyperloop systems, this one with Dubai seems to really about bringing a system to the Emirate.

The company wrote:

We’ve signed an agreement with RTA Dubai to jointly pursue a passenger and cargo hyperloop network in Dubai and between Dubai and Abu Dhabi and other Emirates. This could reduce the time from Dubai to Abu Dhabi to 12 minutes.
https://electrek.co/2016/11/08/hyperloop-one-unveils-system-announces-deal-bring-network-dubai/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: The Hyperloop
« Reply #51 on: November 11, 2016, 02:15:44 AM »
Hyperloop One explores setting up high-speed transport system in Finland, Netherlands, Dubai
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/11/10/hyperloop-one-finland-netherlands-dubai-setting-up-high-speed-transport-system.html
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Sigmetnow

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Re: The Hyperloop
« Reply #52 on: November 16, 2016, 02:57:26 AM »
Hyperloop One installs the first tube of its ‘DevLoop’ in Las Vegas – it’s really happening
In another “it’s really happening” moment with the hyperloop following the announcement of a new system in development in Dubai, Hyperloop One announced today that it installed the very first tube of its “DevLoop” in North Las Vegas.

In order to truly understand the significance of this event, you need to consider that if they complete this ‘DevLoop’, which looks on its way to become the first full-scale hyperloop system, they will have technically created a new mode of transportation.

That’s a fairly rare event throughout human history. Whether it ever become a commercially viable mode of transport is another issue, which is being investigated for deployment between Dubai and Abu Dhabi, but even if it’s just the development system that ends up being functional – I would argue that it’s still a significant accomplishment.
https://electrek.co/2016/11/15/hyperloop-one-first-tube-devloop-las-vegas/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: The Hyperloop
« Reply #53 on: December 02, 2016, 12:21:06 AM »
That other Hyperloop company, called Hyperloop Transportation Technologies, Inc. (HTT).

Hyperloop startup announces $30 million investment, claims total raised over $100 million based on some unconventional math
https://electrek.co/2016/12/01/hyperloop-startup-investment/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: The Hyperloop
« Reply #54 on: January 30, 2017, 03:37:43 AM »
Tunnels for the hyperloop.

Elon Musk speaks about Hyperloop and tunneling at SpaceX’s Hyperloop Pod Competition
SpaceX held a Hyperloop Pod Competition this weekend at their facility in Hawthorne, CA, and earlier today Elon gave the crowd a short speech talking about transportation innovation, efficiency, and his new “boring” company focused on building tunnels to alleviate traffic, showing that his recent focus on tunnels is probably related to how he sees hyperloop developing as underground, rather than overground, transport.

The main point from Elon’s speech is that he sees a necessity of transportation becoming “3D.” Since buildings are already 3D, in that you can have one building tens of stories tall, all filled with people, who often want to get there and leave at the same time (at the start and end of a business day), then it’s hard to accommodate all of those people on a 2D road network.  This leads us to the idea that we need to have 3D transportation, either above-ground or underground. While elevated trains are certainly possible, Elon, in the speech, stated that “you have to go either up or down…I think probably down.”

To achieve this, Elon stated that he sees as a possibility of increasing the speed of tunneling by 5-10x, which of course would reduce associated costs and build times for infrastructure projects – including train, car and hyperloop tunnels.  Elon didn’t make it clear where exactly he sees these possible improvements, but stated that it comes from a “limit of physics” approach, a mentality he’s used before in reference to gigafactory production.  But Elon also states that “we have no idea what we’re doing” when it comes to building boring machines, so we’ll have to wait to see if those numbers are achievable.

You can see a little more video from the competition, including a livestream if it’s still up, here: http://www.spacex.com/hyperloop

And Elon’s full speech, which is just 4 minutes long, [video in the article]
https://electrek.co/2017/01/29/elon-musk-speaks-hyperloop-tunneling-at-spacexs-hyperloop-pod-competition/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: The Hyperloop
« Reply #55 on: February 07, 2017, 09:11:24 PM »
Australia Parliament committee recommends Hyperloop technology as alternative to high-speed rails
The Committee on Infrastructure, Transport and Cities’ created by Australia’s Parliament has recommended the government to explore the use of Hyperloop technology as an alternative to investing in high speed rail systems. Australia is two thirds the size of the United States with vast distances between its major cities. Ultraspeed Australia’s Sean Duggan says the Hyperloop could create a network of “30-minute cities.”
...
The Committee on Infrastructure, Transport and Cities’ report to Parliament says the Hyperloop would allow passengers to travel between Sydney and Melbourne in less than one hour. Today, that trip requires 12 hours by train or 9 hours 30 minutes by car.  Hyperloop One suggests a pod in a “superluxe” configuration could carry 24 people, 50 people if configured for business class travelers, or 90 in economy mode. Pods will be much smaller than rail cars and could operate more frequently with far fewer passengers. ...
http://www.teslarati.com/australia-parliament-committee-recommends-hyperloop-technology-alternative-high-speed-rails/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: The Hyperloop
« Reply #56 on: March 08, 2017, 01:57:00 PM »
Hyperloop One: images of the first Hyperloop full scale test track released
In another “it’s actually happening” moment with the hyperloop today, we get an updated look at what is probably the most advanced hyperloop system developed so far. We saw SpaceX’s test track earlier this year, but the mile-long tube that the rocket company built is only meant for testing propulsion systems and it isn’t full-scale.

Hyperloop One’s track in Nevada is the first that could support a full-scale pod to carry people and cargo. The company released the first pictures of their progress since installing the first tube last November.

Rob Lloyd, CEO of Hyperloop One, is in Dubai today for the Middle East Rail conference. The company has seen strong interest in the region and announced a deal last year to bring the first hyperloop network to Dubai.

For the occasion, the CEO unveiled the first image of what they are calling the “DevLoop” – a hyperloop test track.

The final version is supposed to be 1-mile-long, but it currently stretches on 500 meters in the Nevada desert. The tube measures 3.3 meters in diameter and the entire Hyperloop test structure weighs over one million kilograms....
https://electrek.co/2017/03/07/hyperloop-picture-full-scale-test-track/
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DrTskoul

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Re: The Hyperloop
« Reply #57 on: March 08, 2017, 08:51:50 PM »
Australia Parliament committee recommends Hyperloop technology as alternative to high-speed rails
The Committee on Infrastructure, Transport and Cities’ created by Australia’s Parliament has recommended the government to explore the use of Hyperloop technology as an alternative to investing in high speed rail systems. Australia is two thirds the size of the United States with vast distances between its major cities. Ultraspeed Australia’s Sean Duggan says the Hyperloop could create a network of “30-minute cities.”
...
The Committee on Infrastructure, Transport and Cities’ report to Parliament says the Hyperloop would allow passengers to travel between Sydney and Melbourne in less than one hour. Today, that trip requires 12 hours by train or 9 hours 30 minutes by car.  Hyperloop One suggests a pod in a “superluxe” configuration could carry 24 people, 50 people if configured for business class travelers, or 90 in economy mode. Pods will be much smaller than rail cars and could operate more frequently with far fewer passengers. ...
http://www.teslarati.com/australia-parliament-committee-recommends-hyperloop-technology-alternative-high-speed-rails/

Let's create more stuff that only the rich can use.....
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crandles

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Re: The Hyperloop
« Reply #58 on: March 09, 2017, 12:12:30 AM »

Let's create more stuff that only the rich can use.....

I have no idea how much it will be to use. I am rather sceptical of it being cheaper than high speed rail. Why would it be cheaper? Seems like a lot of r&d needed and probably more expensive infrastructure in order to save some air resistance.

But if it provides an alternative to air travel that is pretty much restricted to using ff for power density reasons. Faster and less reliance on ff sound like nice benefits but will costs escalate and kill this? If it gets that only the rich can afford it then it has no chance of getting the volume of usage needed to make it pay and not much will get built.

I am concerned that costs will soar, but if Elon Musk is convinced enough to start 'the boring company' then who knows? He is much more likely to have got his calculations correct than I am.

Sigmetnow

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Re: The Hyperloop
« Reply #59 on: March 11, 2017, 02:03:49 PM »
The Hyperloop is expected to employ permanent magnets for levitation, meaning forward momentum will be maintained with very little, and brief, energy input.  Solar power will do nicely.  And the passenger or freight cost is expected to be quite reasonable.

Rail travel is relatively energy efficient and offers the most environmentally friendly option, but is too slow and expensive to be massively adopted. At distances less than 900 miles, supersonic travel is unfeasible, as most of the journey would be spent ascending and descending (the slowest parts of a flight.) Given these issues, the Hyperloop aims to make a cost-effective, high speed transportation system for use at moderate distances. As an example of the right type of distance, Musk uses the route from San Francisco to L.A. (a route the high-speed rail system will also cover). The Hyperloop tubes would have solar panels installed on the roof, allowing for a clean and self-powering system.

Realistically, the most important problem in getting any project off the ground is money, doubly so when talking about a public work. Even if one can produce an impressive blueprint, there are still issues of public approval, legislation, regulations, and contractors to worry about. Fortunately, The Hyperloop would be a cost-saving measure, especially when measured against the corpulent rail project currently underway. Musk’s white paper for the Hyperloop estimates the total cost could be kept under six billion dollars. Meanwhile, phase one of the California high-speed rail project is expected to cost at least $68 billion.

http://www.digitaltrends.com/cool-tech/hyperloop-news/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: The Hyperloop
« Reply #60 on: April 06, 2017, 04:34:28 PM »
Hyperloop One reveals 11 potential routes for the high-speed transportation system in the US
https://electrek.co/2017/04/06/hyperloop-one-us-routes/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: The Hyperloop
« Reply #61 on: June 07, 2017, 05:04:58 PM »
Hyperloop One unveils 9 new potential European routes for high-speed travel
https://electrek.co/2017/06/07/hyperloop-one-european-routes-high-speed-travel/

"Dubai is still the most likely location for the first hyperloop system since the project is already going through planning and design."
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Sigmetnow

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Re: The Hyperloop
« Reply #62 on: June 20, 2017, 05:10:44 PM »
The other hyperloop company, HTT:

Hyperloop Transportation Technologies signs deal with South Korea to begin building system
• Hyperloop Transportation Technologies has signed a licensing agreement with the South Korean government.
• The South Korean government will get access to HTT's technology to develop a hyperloop system known as the Hyper Tube Express.
• Construction could potentially start in 2018, according to HTT CEO Dirk Ahlborn.
http://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/20/hyperloop-transportation-technologies-licensing-deal-with-south-korea.html
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Bob Wallace

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Re: The Hyperloop
« Reply #63 on: June 20, 2017, 08:58:03 PM »
There are so many Hyperloop projects getting underway that I'm raising my estimates of the probability of success.  At this point a large number of qualified pencils must have been pushed across paper, looking for fatal flaws.


RikW

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Re: The Hyperloop
« Reply #64 on: June 23, 2017, 01:00:58 PM »
They plan to decide about a 15-50km test track in the Netherlands somewhere this year and have a working Hyperloop between 2 cities in 2021. At least they don't lack ambition

etienne

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Re: The Hyperloop
« Reply #65 on: June 23, 2017, 01:25:17 PM »
The idea is not new :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swissmetro

The problem of the Swiss solution is that they wanted to do it 100% underground because there is not so much space above ground. So the costs where too high.

In the Swiss concept, speed would have been adapted to the lenght of the trip in order to have regular schedules. Trains would start and stop at the same time in the different train stations.

Best regards,

Etienne

Bob Wallace

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Re: The Hyperloop
« Reply #66 on: June 23, 2017, 04:59:42 PM »
The idea is not new.  I thought about it back in the 1950s when watching paperwork being shot from floor to floor in pneumatic tubes.  There are several versions that have appeared and gone nowhere.

Battery powered cars is not a new idea.  Reusable rockets is not a new idea.  Automating car factories is not a new idea.  Solar tiles are not a new idea.  (Did I miss anything?)

The difference is, Elon Musk made them happen.  (The Hyperloop does appear to be happening.)

etienne

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Re: The Hyperloop
« Reply #67 on: June 25, 2017, 05:19:48 PM »
Well, there is a concept which is that we are in a limited world with a limited availability of ressources. This was first discussed by the "Club of Rome" in the '70ies.
https://www.clubofrome.org/
One of the actual members, Prof Bradi has a blog where he talks regularely about it. http://cassandralegacy.blogspot.lu/
Even if I don't always agree with what he publishes, I find it worth reading.

If you think with that point of view, you have to wonder if the solution is higher or lower speed. You can reduce the needed energy by reducing the air pressure in a tube, or by a slower travel speed. The problem of reducing the air pressure, is that it takes a lot of energy first to produce the tube, than to keep it under a low pressure.

Somehow, I really wonder how companies like Nestle were able to manage something like 40 factories on 3 continents (I'm not sure of the numbers) before WWII. Go local also means manage locally international companies, trust local people, headquarters don't need to know how each branch manages cleaning teams.

This is a little bit out of topics, but I wonder if the Hyperloop  is really a solution or if it is just a waste of ressources. I believe that Internet should reduce the need for travel.

The other example you gave already existed before. Mr Musk is a genius because he is able to find a balance between a market, a product, a technology, a cost model and a dream, just like Mr Ford did with his T car. I'm not sure that this will work with the Hyperloop.

Best regards,

Etienne


Bob Wallace

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Re: The Hyperloop
« Reply #68 on: June 25, 2017, 06:40:08 PM »
The ideal solution to avoid extreme climate change would be for everyone to cut their energy and 'stuff' consumption to a bare minimum.  But that will not happen.  People will continue to fly from SF to LA, from LA to NYC, and all  those other trips because they want to get there quickly.  Even knowing they are creating incredible problems for those who follow.

Our only hope is to give people near-zero carbon alternatives to the high-carbon ways they now live.  Wind and solar in place of coal, EVs in place of gasmobiles, heat pumps instead of oil/gas furnaces.  Those we can do.  The Hyperloop is one of two possible ways to move people long distances very quickly.  The other is battery powered flight.

Over the next 3-5 years we should get a much better idea of how to replace petroleum flight.  The 'loop is going to be tested and, if it works as expected, we'll be able to do a realistic cost analysis.  And if we see continued battery capacity improvements we can calculate the cost of flying with electricity.

A possible solution for flying with electricity is air aluminum batteries.

"Aluminium–air batteries are primary cells, i.e., non-rechargeable. Once the aluminium anode is consumed by its reaction with atmospheric oxygen at a cathode immersed in a water-based electrolyte to form hydrated aluminium oxide, the battery will no longer produce electricity. However, it is possible to mechanically recharge the battery with new aluminium anodes made from recycling the hydrated aluminium oxide. Such recycling would be essential if aluminium–air batteries are to be widely adopted."

The capacity/weight ratio is very attractive 1300 (practical), 6000/8000 (theoretical) Wh/kg.  IIRC Musk has stated that with batteries at 400 Wh/kg long distance air travel becomes possible.  Air aluminum batteries are apparently well over that threshold.

The downside of air-aluminum is that the depleted batteries would need to be removed from planes and replaced with new batteries.  That wouldn't seem to be a huge problem.  Look at how we load freight and luggage.  Same approach.

We might need to build 'aluminum furnaces' close to airport.  But that's probably doable.  Or we truck in the batteries like we truck in fuel.

Anyway, long distance rapid travel is likely to be a solved problem in the near future.  And the Hyperloop is one of our possible solutions.

etienne

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Re: The Hyperloop
« Reply #69 on: June 26, 2017, 06:32:53 PM »
The ideal solution to avoid extreme climate change would be for everyone to cut their energy and 'stuff' consumption to a bare minimum.  But that will not happen.  People will continue to fly from SF to LA, from LA to NYC, and all  those other trips because they want to get there quickly.  Even knowing they are creating incredible problems for those who follow.

Our only hope is to give people near-zero carbon alternatives to the high-carbon ways they now live.  Wind and solar in place of coal, EVs in place of gasmobiles, heat pumps instead of oil/gas furnaces.  Those we can do.  The Hyperloop is one of two possible ways to move people long distances very quickly.  The other is battery powered flight.

Well, just for the "Do the Math" type of calculation (https://dothemath.ucsd.edu/), Luxembourg used 169703 TJ in 2015, with mainly Petrol (108815 TJ), Natural Gas (27836 TJ) and Electrity (22390 TJ). Even if you say that electricity's efficiency is 4 times better than the one of Petrol and Natural Gas, it still makes 34162 TJ to replace by electricity, which means that we have to add at least around 3/2 of today's production (aim being to reach 5/2 of the actual electricity's production). Furthermore, electricity is not 100% green. I don't know how you want to achieve this is a reasonable time.

Data comes from statec.lu.

Best regards,

Etienne

Bob Wallace

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Re: The Hyperloop
« Reply #70 on: June 26, 2017, 06:51:11 PM »
I don't know how you want to achieve this is a reasonable time.

What's a reasonable time?  I'm assuming that we've got a decent chance of being OK if we hit ~zero CO2 emissions by 2050.  How would we get there?

Abandon fueled vehicles for electric vehicles.  Essentially none of the vehicles in use today will be in use by 2050, even 2040.  Replace as we replace.

In 2016 the planet generated 68% of its electricity with fossil fuels.  To get to 0% by 2050 would mean installing RE at a slightly larger than 2% exchange FF/RE rate per year.  I think we'll move faster than 2% per year once the full impact of low cost wind and solar sinks in.  I can see most grids being fossil fuel free by 2040.

Electricity is not green because we still use fossil fuels as an energy source.  That will fade away.  There is very little work that cannot be done using only electricity.  Where electricity is not a good solution (ocean transport) we might have to use a different energy source such as biofuel.



numerobis

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Re: The Hyperloop
« Reply #71 on: June 26, 2017, 07:15:26 PM »
There are so many Hyperloop projects getting underway that I'm raising my estimates of the probability of success.  At this point a large number of qualified pencils must have been pushed across paper, looking for fatal flaws.

Compare the number of clean coal projects that were underway five years ago. A good story will get funded, but it's no guarantee.

I'd advocate for as much high-speed rail construction as possible right now. If hyperloop succeeds, we can convert the rail lines; if it flops, we still displace a huge amount of car and air traffic.

Bob Wallace

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Re: The Hyperloop
« Reply #72 on: June 26, 2017, 07:53:51 PM »
Converting HSR tracks to Hyperloop routes doesn't make sense.  The 'loop doesn't need the railbed, the road crossings, the bridges, nearly as much real estate.  (Footings every 100 meters or so, not a continuous, wide swath of land.)

We're very close to seeing if the 'loop works.  Less than two years.

At this point I don't think it makes sense to begin a new HSR project until we see how the Hyperloop sorts out.  So far we know the propulsion system works.  We've seen pillars stood and tube installed. Those are our main cost considerations.  Real estate costs will be much lower for the 'loop than for HSR.  Station costs would likely be similar.

I think what we should be doing right now is electrifying existing slow rail.  At least along the bulk freight routes we're likely to use for the next few decades. 

Sigmetnow

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Re: The Hyperloop
« Reply #73 on: June 26, 2017, 10:12:56 PM »
I don't know how you want to achieve this is a reasonable time.

What's a reasonable time?  I'm assuming that we've got a decent chance of being OK if we hit ~zero CO2 emissions by 2050.  How would we get there?

...

 Also, most arguments are based on renewable-power replacing fossil-fuel-power 1-for-1. But with demand-shifting, storage instead of peaker plants, and increased efficiency, total electricity needs in developed areas will actually decrease.

Edit:  Residential and commercial solar, new net-zero buildings, and microgrids will also decrease the amount of traditional grid power required.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2017, 10:58:11 PM by Sigmetnow »
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numerobis

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Re: The Hyperloop
« Reply #74 on: June 27, 2017, 12:05:06 AM »
At this point I don't think it makes sense to begin a new HSR project until we see how the Hyperloop sorts out.

For slow rail, fast rail, or for hyperloop, you need to plan a route that's relatively straight, you need to plan where stations will be, you need to plan the infrastructure of how to get people to the rail or loop station (parking lots, bus lines, metro lines), you need to work out how you'll get right-of-way through cities and countryside.

If in two years the loop concept is proven and we decide to scrap the scary foreign socialist TGV/Shinkansen plans and start developing good 'murrican capitalist Hyperloop plans, we won't have wasted much money.

But my skepticism is sky-high. I suspect the test tracks will show great promise with just a few teething pains. Then we'll just be a decade or two before the widespread deployment of monorail^wmaglev^wHyperloop technology.


(PS: I suspect that Hyperloop will be declared socialistic by the usual suspects the second it works.)

TerryM

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Re: The Hyperloop
« Reply #75 on: June 27, 2017, 12:36:22 PM »
I took one of the last passenger trains from Las Vegas to Los Angeles many years ago. The tracks were so bad that the train ran for many miles at <10 miles/hr. A kid on a bike could have run circles around us. Walking those rails years later I found at least half the spikes were missing, or so loose that you could pull them out with your fingers. The rails were twisted, the sleepers dried and splintered and obviously no maintenance had been performed in decades.
This is evidence of the short term thinking that today's corporate structures embrace. If I can save a few thousand a year in upkeep, my bonus might go up, and (hopefully) I'll be retired before something dreadful occurs. With luck my replacement will fix up my screw ups and he'll be demoted for spending so much more than I did on all that unnecessary maintenance.


I fear North America's business climate when it comes to building things like HSR or HL that will require not just precision design and execution, but excellence in such unglamorous areas as track maintenance, pylon inspections and all the other little things that added together make the difference between a safe, comfortable journey and an unpleasantly, hazardous trip.


I watched some u-tubes showing high speed rail in India, Turkey, and China, a few weeks back. The Chinese obviously took a lot of pride in their train. the Turks didn't seem to pay much attention to the amenities, or cleanliness, and the Indian example was filthy. What will the N. American versions look like after the shine is off?


Terry

Jim Pettit

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Re: The Hyperloop
« Reply #76 on: June 27, 2017, 02:24:43 PM »
Any infrastructure program ran as a for-profit enterprise will naturally, and over a remarkably short period of time, devolve into a rickety mess barely held together by shareholder-beholden board of directors cutting every possible safety, efficiency, and quality corner possible in an effort to wring out every last penny. So much as I like and admire Mr. Musk, it's not difficult to foresee the day that he hands over the baton of leadership to someone who will turn the Hyperloop into the equivalent of the rapid transit systems in most American cities: high prices, horrible service, under-served populations, frequent breakdowns, crowded and unsafe conditions, and so on. (And, for the record, I can see the same happening with SpaceX, etc.)

Such are the ways of unrestricted capitalism...

Sigmetnow

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Re: The Hyperloop
« Reply #77 on: June 27, 2017, 03:23:43 PM »
Any infrastructure program ran as a for-profit enterprise will naturally, and over a remarkably short period of time, devolve into a rickety mess barely held together by shareholder-beholden board of directors cutting every possible safety, efficiency, and quality corner possible in an effort to wring out every last penny. So much as I like and admire Mr. Musk, it's not difficult to foresee the day that he hands over the baton of leadership to someone who will turn the Hyperloop into the equivalent of the rapid transit systems in most American cities: high prices, horrible service, under-served populations, frequent breakdowns, crowded and unsafe conditions, and so on. (And, for the record, I can see the same happening with SpaceX, etc.)

Such are the ways of unrestricted capitalism...

 For the record: although Elon Musk came up with (or, re-popularized ;) ) the idea of the hyperloop, he is not involved in their build-out, other than providing a small-scale track to test pod designs.
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TerryM

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Re: The Hyperloop
« Reply #78 on: June 27, 2017, 03:33:22 PM »
Any infrastructure program ran as a for-profit enterprise will naturally, and over a remarkably short period of time, devolve into a rickety mess barely held together by shareholder-beholden board of directors cutting every possible safety, efficiency, and quality corner possible in an effort to wring out every last penny. So much as I like and admire Mr. Musk, it's not difficult to foresee the day that he hands over the baton of leadership to someone who will turn the Hyperloop into the equivalent of the rapid transit systems in most American cities: high prices, horrible service, under-served populations, frequent breakdowns, crowded and unsafe conditions, and so on. (And, for the record, I can see the same happening with SpaceX, etc.)

Such are the ways of unrestricted capitalism...


Ramen !


And when the bean counters look to reduce their taxes an easy target is the transportation system used by their workers.


Terry

Sigmetnow

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Re: The Hyperloop
« Reply #79 on: June 27, 2017, 10:01:44 PM »
 90-second video discussion on a possible hyperloop route in the UK, planned to include freight transportation:
https://mobile.twitter.com/hyperloopone/status/879751558304378880

Three Hyperloop Routes That Would Transform The UK Economy
https://hyperloop-one.com/blog/three-hyperloop-routes-would-transform-uk-economy
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Sigmetnow

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Re: The Hyperloop
« Reply #80 on: July 12, 2017, 05:34:47 PM »
Another baby step, and a separate reveal of a full-size pod.

Hyperloop One shows first ‘Full Systems Test’, unveils first ‘pod’
https://electrek.co/2017/07/12/hyperloop-one-full-systems-test-pod/
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numerobis

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Re: The Hyperloop
« Reply #81 on: July 12, 2017, 09:11:03 PM »
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2017/07/hyperloop-one-says-its-completed-a-first-full-systems-test-in-a-vacuum/

They're building a maglev with a vacuum tube. I'm sure that technology is technically feasible for going very fast, but it's going to be stupid expensive.

Sigmetnow

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Re: The Hyperloop
« Reply #82 on: July 12, 2017, 09:20:51 PM »
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2017/07/hyperloop-one-says-its-completed-a-first-full-systems-test-in-a-vacuum/

They're building a maglev with a vacuum tube. I'm sure that technology is technically feasible for going very fast, but it's going to be stupid expensive.

 But still cheaper than high speed rail. :)

https://www.engadget.com/2016/07/06/hyperloop-one-proves-its-cheaper-than-high-speed-rail/
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Bob Wallace

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Re: The Hyperloop
« Reply #83 on: July 12, 2017, 10:23:25 PM »
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2017/07/hyperloop-one-says-its-completed-a-first-full-systems-test-in-a-vacuum/

They're building a maglev with a vacuum tube. I'm sure that technology is technically feasible for going very fast, but it's going to be stupid expensive.

You assume it's going to be stupid expensive.  Elon Musk calculates that it will be quite affordable.

I'm in the "wait and see" group.

numerobis

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Re: The Hyperloop
« Reply #84 on: July 12, 2017, 11:23:13 PM »
Elon Musk calculates that a low-pressure tube with a car that sucks air from its front end and uses it to float above the track will be cheaper. OK, maybe.

Hyperloop One demonstrates a maglev in a vacuum tube.

These are rather different technologies.

Bob Wallace

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Re: The Hyperloop
« Reply #85 on: July 13, 2017, 12:07:20 AM »
Elon Musk calculates that a low-pressure tube with a car that sucks air from its front end and uses it to float above the track will be cheaper. OK, maybe.

Hyperloop One demonstrates a maglev in a vacuum tube.

These are rather different technologies.

From Musk's 2013 Hyperloop white paper...

This is where the external linear electric motor comes in, which is simply a
round induction motor (like the one in the Tesla Model S) rolled flat. This
would accelerate the pod to high subsonic velocity and provide a periodic
reboost roughly every 70 miles. The linear electric motor is needed for as little
as ~1% of the tube length, so is not particularly costly.

Maglev is a linear electric motor.

etienne

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Re: The Hyperloop
« Reply #86 on: July 13, 2017, 05:55:29 PM »
Is the Hyperloop on wheels ? On what does it move during the 70 miles between the two linear motors ? My understanding of the Maglev is that the linear motor has to be all the way on the track in order to have the vehicule in levitation.

numerobis

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Re: The Hyperloop
« Reply #87 on: July 13, 2017, 06:16:05 PM »
Is the Hyperloop on wheels ? On what does it move during the 70 miles between the two linear motors ? My understanding of the Maglev is that the linear motor has to be all the way on the track in order to have the vehicule in levitation.

Musk's concept floats on the air that it sucked from the front end. It does not float on magnets.

The Hyperloop One concept floats on magnets.

Bob Wallace

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Re: The Hyperloop
« Reply #88 on: July 13, 2017, 06:30:05 PM »
Air suspension was tested but did not support the pod high enough off the bottom of the track.

Now the design has changed to include an aluminum 'strip' down the bottom of the tube for levitation with linear acceleration motors used every 50 to 75 miles to boost speed.  The rest of the time the pod would be coasting.

Sigmetnow

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Re: The Hyperloop
« Reply #89 on: July 20, 2017, 07:49:18 PM »
Wut?!? 

Elon Musk says he got 'verbal govt' approval for Hyperloop between NY and DC
Elon Musk says The Boring Co. has verbal government approval to build an underground Hyperloop.
The infrastructure and tunneling company would connect four Northeastern cities: New York, Washington, Philadelphia and Baltimore.
Musk plans to begin the East Coast project at the same time as his previously proposed Los Angeles tunneling venture.
http://www.cnbc.com/2017/07/20/elon-musk-says-he-got-verbal-govt-approval-for-hyperloop-between-ny-and-dc.html

The Tweet:
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/888053175155949572
(Enjoy the replies. ;D )
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Sigmetnow

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Re: The Hyperloop
« Reply #90 on: July 20, 2017, 08:12:35 PM »
Electrek:

Elon Musk’ Boring Company plans underground Hyperloop for New York-DC in ’29 mins’
Elon Musk just casually announced on Twitter that he received “verbal government approval” for The Boring Company, his new tunnel boring startup, to build an underground Hyperloop system connecting New York city, Philadelphia, Baltimore, and Washington DC....
https://electrek.co/2017/07/20/elon-musk-boring-company-build-new-york-washington-dc-underground-hyperloop/
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Bob Wallace

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Re: The Hyperloop
« Reply #91 on: July 20, 2017, 08:31:35 PM »
Sounds like Musk, via the Boring Company, is getting into the Hyperloop business after all.

Wanting him to release some cost figures for going underground vs. overground.

Imagine a straight route from SF to NYC that doesn't bother to go around the mountains or slow down to weave through them but just goes under at full speed.

Musk dreams big - very, very big.  But so far his dreams appear to be achievable when it comes to the other, non-'loop stuff.  That makes me suspect he might pull off very high speed underground travel.

Sigmetnow

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Re: The Hyperloop
« Reply #92 on: July 20, 2017, 08:48:56 PM »
I'm still having difficulty believing this is not a joke.  I bet the "verbal government approval" probably was.  As in, "Sure, Elon, you go right ahead! Ha-hah! ;D "

But as Musk said (tweeted), what he needs now is support.  So what better way to start the ball rolling than with a casual announcement, like:  Dad said OK!
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Bob Wallace

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Re: The Hyperloop
« Reply #93 on: July 20, 2017, 09:09:26 PM »
I'm still having difficulty believing this is not a joke.  I bet the "verbal government approval" probably was.  As in, "Sure, Elon, you go right ahead! Ha-hah! ;D "

But as Musk said (tweeted), what he needs now is support.  So what better way to start the ball rolling than with a casual announcement, like:  Dad said OK!

I've dealt with government permitting agencies a few times.  Certainly not on this scale, but the process is the same. 

You spend some time with the people who will make the final decision, or at least with people who work for them and understand the regs and politics.  You lay out your idea, they critique, you adjust your idea if needed, and then they say "That's got a very chance of being approved.  Can't guarantee that, you understand.  But can't see why not."

Elon's built stuff like factories and rocket launch facilities.  I suspect he knows how the process works.

Sigmetnow

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Re: The Hyperloop
« Reply #94 on: July 20, 2017, 11:49:08 PM »
He's still tweeting!

Still a lot of work needed to receive formal approval, but am optimistic that will occur rapidly
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/888077452265771008

If you want this to happen fast, please let your local & federal elected representatives know. Makes a big difference if they hear from you.
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/888136631672340480

@ejohnson99 City of Chicago already approached us about doing a high speed tunnel from O'Hare to downtown. They've been great.
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/888137602108448771

@mariom An underground Hyperloop would mean no disruption above ground and be way faster, so I think it is [t]he right way to go
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/888141008252407808
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Sigmetnow

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Re: The Hyperloop
« Reply #95 on: July 20, 2017, 11:59:28 PM »
"Imagine a straight route from SF to NYC that doesn't bother to go around the mountains or slow down to weave through them but just goes under at full speed."

I believe Musk has said the Hyperloop is most efficient up to about 900 miles.  More than that, flying is more efficient. 
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Sigmetnow

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Re: The Hyperloop
« Reply #96 on: July 21, 2017, 12:03:18 AM »
Found this:

Musk thinks Hyperloop-type transport should connect places that are less than 900 mi (1,500 km) apart. He believes the long-term future of air transport will be electrically powered, high-altitude, supersonic planes, and that that type of air travel will be faster and cheaper than a Hyperloop for distances longer than 900 miles. But when the distance is shorter, Musk says that “having a supersonic plane is rather pointless, as you would spend almost all your time slowly ascending and descending and very little time at cruise speed.”
https://waitbutwhy.com/2015/06/hyperloop.html
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oren

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Re: The Hyperloop
« Reply #97 on: July 21, 2017, 12:07:15 AM »
Color me highly doubtful. Not that I disbelieve Elon's intentions, but where is the business plan? Long-term financing? Where are the billions that will be invested upfront to pay for all this boring, infrastructure, stations etc., with very slow payback? I just hope he doesn't mean to do it through Tesla, as it might cause it to go bankrupt.

Sigmetnow

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Re: The Hyperloop
« Reply #98 on: July 21, 2017, 12:29:07 AM »
Color me highly doubtful. Not that I disbelieve Elon's intentions, but where is the business plan? Long-term financing? Where are the billions that will be invested upfront to pay for all this boring, infrastructure, stations etc., with very slow payback? I just hope he doesn't mean to do it through Tesla, as it might cause it to go bankrupt.

I have not seen anything about Tesla or Musk taking up Hyperloop production.  Musk may do the Boring, and partner with a separate Hyperloop company(s) for the installation and operations.

It looks like California, and Chicago, to start, are willing to finance hyperloops.
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Bob Wallace

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Re: The Hyperloop
« Reply #99 on: July 21, 2017, 12:53:05 AM »
"Imagine a straight route from SF to NYC that doesn't bother to go around the mountains or slow down to weave through them but just goes under at full speed."

I believe Musk has said the Hyperloop is most efficient up to about 900 miles.  More than that, flying is more efficient.

I fail to see why this would be true.  The 'loop would be faster than a commercial jet.  It would use far less energy per mile.  And there would be no weather disruptions.

eta:  Ah, supersonic airplanes.  Lots of energy required.  Might be like the Concorde, only for the champaign class. 

« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 12:59:24 AM by Bob Wallace »