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Author Topic: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution  (Read 99489 times)

TerryM

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #100 on: June 30, 2015, 10:17:00 AM »
MIT announces a new manufacturing process that cuts costs by 1/2 & improves performance.


http://newsoffice.mit.edu/2015/manufacturing-lithium-ion-battery-half-cost-0623



I hope Musk doesn't get his factory up and running just as some new technology makes his product obsolete. The breakthroughs are coming fast enough that this is within the realm of possibility, & as one who lives within the loom of Waterloo I'm well aware of just how fickle & unforgiving Hi-Tech can be.
Even the right product going to market a little too soon or a little too late can sink a corporation. TI-99-4-A, RIM Playbook, Studebaker Avanti.
The world might have been sooo different.


Terry


BTW With Space-X going the way of the last Orbital Sciences & Progress 59, the insurance costs for privatized space launches may bring some players back to earth.

Jim Hunt

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #101 on: June 30, 2015, 11:25:44 AM »
I hope Musk doesn't get his factory up and running just as some new technology makes his product obsolete.

Did you read my previous link Terry, which amongst other things alludes to Stefan Quandt coming out as the "European Elon Musk"?

Re rare earths, Ricardo have designed a low cost, rare earth free EV motor:

http://www.ricardo.com/en-GB/News--Media/Press-releases/News-releases1/2015/Ricardo-develops-next-generation-electric-vehicle-motor-/
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Laurent

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #102 on: June 30, 2015, 11:56:27 AM »

TerryM

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #103 on: June 30, 2015, 05:30:05 PM »
Jim


It's not the Tesla logo I'm fretting about, but the possibility of the industry itself taking gigantic losses as the result of major infrastructure investments while the technology is still so unsettled. Fortunes will be made by those who choose wisely (or luckily), but if fortunes are lost first it might be difficult to get the next round of investors to ante up.


Good to hear of the "rare earth free" motor. I remember the disasters at Iron Mountain where babies were being born without brains due to pollution from rare earth mining. They buried the whole town & hopefully flash floods won't carry the nasty stuff down the hill to the new solar facility at Ivanpah dry lake bed.


We need some answers to power storage, and we need the answers 10 years ago. ;>)
Terry

Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #104 on: June 30, 2015, 10:03:58 PM »
No surprise; this was due to be next....

MobileBattery can boost EV range and provide home back-up power
https://chargedevs.com/newswire/mobilebattery-can-boost-ev-range-and-provide-home-back-up-power/
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Sleepy

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #105 on: July 01, 2015, 05:18:11 AM »
Which reminds me of this...

Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #106 on: July 07, 2015, 02:47:56 AM »
JuiceBox Green 40 lets EV drivers choose to charge with clean electrons.
WattTime’s software analyzes the local power grid in real time to identify moments when renewable sources, or comparatively efficient plants, are online, and adjusts EV charging schedules to draw on the cleanest power sources available.
https://chargedevs.com/newswire/juicebox-green-40-lets-ev-drivers-choose-to-charge-with-clean-electrons/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #107 on: July 07, 2015, 03:18:25 AM »
Samsung says it can immediately double capacity of Li-ion batteries
Samsung Electronics has developed a silicon carbide-free graphene coating that it says could immediately double the capacity of lithium-ion batteries. That would be an impressive feat indeed, considering that capacity has increased only twofold since Li-ion batteries were first commercialized in 1991.

Many researchers are investigating the potential of silicon as an anode material, but it suffers from poor cycle life. Samsung’s new process creates a sort of protective layer around the silicon to make battery life longer. When paired with a commercial lithium cobalt oxide cathode, the coating allows the cell to reach volumetric energy densities almost two times higher than those of current commercial Li-ion batteries.

In “Silicon carbide-free graphene growth on silicon for lithium-ion battery with high volumetric energy density,” recently published in the journal Nature Communications, a team from the Samsung Advanced Institue of Technology (SAIT) describe how they developed the technology of direct graphene growth over silicon nanoparticles without silicon carbide formation.
https://chargedevs.com/newswire/samsung-says-it-can-immediately-double-capacity-of-li-ion-batteries/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #108 on: July 13, 2015, 07:57:22 PM »
First phase of Tesla Gigafactory nearly complete
The first phase is a 900,000-square-foot building, but the final edifice will be several times larger. In fact, it will be the largest building in the world, with a footprint of 5.8 million square feet and two stories of manufacturing space – around 10 million square feet all told. And it might grow even more gargantuan – Elon Musk said in a recent earnings conference call that, because of massive demand for its stationary storage products, Tesla was thinking of expanding the Gigafactory by 50 to 100 percent.
https://chargedevs.com/newswire/first-phase-of-tesla-gigafactory-nearly-complete/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #109 on: July 25, 2015, 01:57:35 AM »
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12Patrick

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #110 on: July 25, 2015, 02:59:38 AM »
My Tunnel idea under solutions power/recharge ALL EV'S for as long as Earth spins...
« Last Edit: July 26, 2015, 02:03:51 PM by 12Patrick »

Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #111 on: July 26, 2015, 03:47:35 AM »
Tesla battery chemistry:
During a call with reporters last week, CEO Elon Musk said the company had improved the battery by shifting the cell chemistry for the pack to partially use silicon in the anode.

“This is just sort of a baby step in the direction of using silicon in the anode,” Musk said during the call. “We’re still primarily using synthetic graphite, but over time we’ll be increasing silicon in the anode.”
http://fortune.com/2015/07/22/teslas-cheaper-car/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #112 on: July 27, 2015, 07:03:37 PM »
Major customers are in the municipal bus market.

Voltabox inaugurates battery pack assembly line in Austin, Texas
Voltabox is now operating an automated assembly line for battery packs, with further lines set to follow. Some of Voltabox’s German partners will also be sharing the space.
https://chargedevs.com/newswire/voltabox-inaugurates-battery-pack-assembly-line-in-austin-texas/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #113 on: August 23, 2015, 10:13:03 PM »
NASA awards grants for advanced battery technologies
NASA’s priority is to eliminate the constraint of power availability for space missions. The selected proposals are expected to lead to reliable power systems that can survive the wide range of NASA missions in harsh space environments, while cutting their mass by 50 percent or more.

“Technology drives exploration, and battery technology is a critical element of that drive,” said Steve Jurczyk, Associate Administrator for NASA’s Space Technology Mission Directorate. “These next-generation batteries will dramatically improve the availability and affordability of the power and energy required for future exploration missions. The development effort will focus on delivering safe, low-mass batteries to enable longer missions deeper into space.”
https://chargedevs.com/newswire/nasa-awards-grants-for-new-advanced-battery-technologies/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #114 on: September 01, 2015, 08:04:56 PM »
Navigant: Global market for automotive Li-ion batteries will quadruple by 2024
The battery business is booming, and a new report from Navigant Research aims to flesh out the picture with some facts and figures.

“Advanced Energy Storage for Automotive Applications” predicts that the global market for automotive Li-ion batteries will grow from $7.8 billion in 2015 to $30.6 billion in 2024, an almost fourfold increase. Total capacity is expected to grow from about 15.9 GWh in 2015 to 93.1 GWh in 2024 – an annual growth rate of 21.7%.

Most OEMs have introduced EVs and PHEVs, almost all of which use Li-ion batteries, hybrids are beginning to use Li-ion instead of nickel-metal hydride, and now stop-start vehicles using Li-ion batteries are beginning to enter the market. Emerging 48 V micro-hybrid technology presents another possible growth area.

The report includes profiles of the leading battery manufacturers, systems integrators and vehicle OEMs, as well as a review of the different Li-ion battery chemistries and competing energy storage technologies, such as ultracapacitors and NiMH batteries.

A successor technology may be on the horizon, but Navigant expects lithium-ion to dominate the market for years to come.

“The immediate future looks to be secure for the Li-ion chemistry, and the move now is to continue to reduce costs while increasing energy density and vehicle range,” says Navigant. “These factors will lead to a greater percentage of BEVs being equipped with larger battery packs that can meet the standard that Tesla has established for vehicle range.”
https://chargedevs.com/newswire/navigant-global-market-for-automotive-li-ion-batteries-will-quadruple-by-2024/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #115 on: September 02, 2015, 09:11:39 PM »
Panasonic shutters Beijing battery factory to focus on high-end market
Battery behemoth Panasonic has announced that it will stop making lithium-ion batteries at its factory in Beijing, eliminating 1,300 jobs.

A sign of waning demand for EVs? Nope, just the opposite. The 15-year-old plant produces batteries for mobile phones and digital cameras, and Panasonic plans to move away from these products (which are steadily being superseded by smartphones), in favor of higher-margin markets such as automotive batteries.

Reuters reports that Panasonic is restructuring to focus on EV batteries and home energy storage systems rather than consumer electronics. In June, the Japanese giant said it would invest about half a billion dollars in the coming fiscal year in its automotive battery business.

Panasonic is a partner in Tesla’s $5 billion Gigafactory, and is expected to pony up 30 to 40 percent of the cost of the enormous Nevada plant.
https://chargedevs.com/newswire/panasonic-shutters-beijing-battery-factory-to-focus-on-high-end-market/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #116 on: September 03, 2015, 09:27:57 PM »
Nanotechnology company StoreDot emphasizes environmental friendliness -- and speed.

Put this one in the “If it can do what they claim, it really will be revolutionary” category. Israeli battery developer StoreDot says its EV FlashBattery can charge a 300-mile battery in 5 minutes – almost 10 times faster than today’s state of the art.
StoreDot says its battery tech charges 10 times faster
https://chargedevs.com/newswire/storedot-says-its-battery-tech-charges-10-times-faster/

From 2014:
StoreDot unveils 'flash-battery' capable of charging devices in just 30 seconds
http://www.neowin.net/news/storedot-unveils-flash-battery-capable-of-charging-devices-in-just-30-seconds
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #117 on: September 05, 2015, 02:50:43 PM »
Spurred by innovators like Tesla, the energy storage business is growing fast
The U.S. Energy Storage Monitor report, which is part of a series of documents published quarterly by GTM Research and the Energy Storage Association, claims that the second quarter of 2015 saw a six-fold increase in energy storage deployment since the first quarter.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2015/09/02/spurred-by-innovators-like-tesla-the-energy-storage-industry-is-booming/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #118 on: September 05, 2015, 02:53:09 PM »
Elon Musk mentioned (during the Tesla 2Q financials conference call) that if you think about the daily power demand curve (high during the day, low at night), it's much like a sine wave.  So if you have storage to accumulate power generated at night, and feed it back to the grid during the day, you can essentially cut your power plant needs in half -- whether that be renewables or fossil fuels.  Interesting thought!
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Jim Hunt

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #119 on: September 05, 2015, 07:22:32 PM »
Preliminary reports on my long(ish) distance test drive of a Renault Zoe EV are available on Twitter, starting at:

https://twitter.com/jim_hunt/status/639800548166893568

"Tesla Parking Only"!


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Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #120 on: September 06, 2015, 03:49:04 PM »
Did not know the Zoe could use a Tesla charger.  Cool.

Suggest spending some time reading Activity posts on Plugshare.com -- particularly for the chargers in your area.  That will give you a good feel for how often, and which, chargers have problems.   ;)

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« Last Edit: September 06, 2015, 04:17:58 PM by Sigmetnow »
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #121 on: September 06, 2015, 03:50:51 PM »
In the video, Straubel says the rise in connectivity will come faster than we expect -- not due to fears about oil, or even CO2, but because of compelling, competitively-priced products.

The Power of Controllable Charging Load – Is Tesla working on a “bi-directional” home charging station?
Excerpts from Tesla’s Chief Technology Officer JB Straubel’s recent presentations about the integration of energy storage and electric vehicles into the grid, leads us to believe that Tesla Motors is likely working on a bi-directional home charging station. I am talking about a charger that could not only charge your car’s battery pack, but also draw electricity from it to power your home, or to feed back into the grid, not unlike Tesla’s Powerwall.

http://electrek.co/2015/08/16/the-power-of-controllable-charging-load-is-tesla-working-on-a-bi-directional-charging-station/
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mati

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #122 on: September 06, 2015, 05:22:33 PM »
There is a big problem in having distributed energy sources.  The current infrastructure in north america is not set up to deal with this.  There are massive energy flows around the continent and one of the biggest problems is keeping the Alternating current in phase, and the voltage levels in range, plus the flow of electricity constant.

For example the Texas electrical grid, which is a well contained unit is currently (lol) investigating finer grained control of the grid termed "smart grid":

https://www.utexas.edu/research/cem/smartgrid.html

The importance of this is emphasized by the great lakes grid failure caused by a single event which cascaded to a week long power outage:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northeast_blackout_of_2003

Maintaing a stable electrical grid is not easy and gets worse with multiple point source inputs...
and so it goes

Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #123 on: September 06, 2015, 06:34:32 PM »
Tesla Gigafactory shown progressing, but still a fraction of its final size in recent satellite photo
http://electrek.co/2015/08/18/gigafactory-shown-progressing-but-still-a-fraction-of-its-final-size-in-recent-satellite-photo/
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Jim Hunt

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #124 on: September 06, 2015, 07:27:18 PM »
Did not know the Zoe could use a Tesla charger.

Actually it can't, but I couldn't resist the photo opportunity! Unfortunately my loan ZOE couldn't persuade the type 2 fast charger at Cribbs Causeway to work either :(
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Jim Hunt

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #125 on: September 06, 2015, 07:33:40 PM »
The Texas electrical grid, which is a well contained unit is currently (lol) investigating finer grained control of the grid termed "smart grid"

As luck would have it my business card says I'm a "smart grid consultant", and my company is currently working with our local distribution grid operator on ways to use EVs for "grid stabilisation". "Smart charging" is the simplest:

http://www.V2G.co.uk/2015/07/my-electric-avenue-preliminary-results-revealed/
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Jim Hunt

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #126 on: September 06, 2015, 07:37:35 PM »
Is Tesla working on a “bi-directional” home charging station?

That would be very interesting if true. Whilst we wait and see how these rumours pan out Nissan + Enel/Endesa are most certainly working on such a device:

http://www.V2G.co.uk/2015/03/nissan-and-endesa-pledge-to-promote-v2g-in-europe/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #127 on: September 06, 2015, 07:57:30 PM »
From July:  Tesla to install battery packs at 3 high schools in the San Diego County school districts
The Escondido school district has been plagued by electric rate hikes in recent years. In the last year alone, the district managed to cut its electricity demand by close to 1 GWh, and yet, their power bill increased from $1.43 million to $1.62 million.

The district is under a time-of-use utility rate varying from a low of $0.12 cent per KWh during the night to as much as $0.42 cent per KWh during peak usage. Tesla is set to install daily cycling Powerpacks to charge at night and deliver the cheap electricity during peak hours in order to take better advantage of the rates.
http://electrek.co/2015/07/27/tesla-to-install-battery-packs-at-3-high-schools-in-the-san-diego-county-school-districts/
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Jim Hunt

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #128 on: September 07, 2015, 02:06:12 AM »
I doubt that Neven would approve, but this is the subject of my latest EV test drive:

https://twitter.com/V2gUK/status/640558169870204928
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #129 on: September 08, 2015, 03:41:21 PM »
Walls!  ;D  And a bonus coyote.

A drone flies over Tesla’s Gigafactory and shows important progress: walls are coming up [Video]
http://electrek.co/2015/09/08/a-drone-flies-over-teslas-gigafactory-and-shows-important-progress-walls-are-coming-up-video/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #130 on: September 10, 2015, 03:02:19 AM »
What's behind the 900% growth in energy storage in Q2 2015
GTM's quarterly report finds capacity leaping ahead and prices coming down
PJM’s first mover status in the use of utility-scale storage for grid support makes it the dominant force in the sector, according to the report. Since Q1 2013, the system operator has added 100 MW of utility-scale storage, over four times the amount California’s added in that timeframe
http://www.utilitydive.com/news/whats-behind-the-900-growth-in-energy-storage-in-q2-2015/405186/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #131 on: September 10, 2015, 04:10:57 PM »
SolarCity signed a 52 MWh solar energy storage deal to power Kaua’i with solar energy when the sun is down
http://electrek.co/2015/09/10/solarcity-signed-a-52-mwh-solar-energy-storage-deal-to-power-kauai-with-solar-energy-when-the-sun-is-down/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #132 on: September 10, 2015, 06:18:04 PM »
@Teslarati: [Video] Tesla CTO JB Straubel Talks Clean Energy Revolution http://t.co/tzTqqfHh0o http://t.co/MlIIipwAM4

https://twitter.com/teslarati/status/640695820220674048
Tesla Reimagines the Century-old Power Grid - JB Straubel | SDF2015
https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=48s&feature=youtu.be&v=4D9erJtiwuU
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #133 on: September 11, 2015, 07:44:32 PM »
Nevadans upset that Tesla is looking elsewhere for lithium supplies -- but U.S. mines can take ten years to start up.

Lithium Mining is a Hot Topic In Nevada Thanks to Tesla
http://www.teslarati.com/lithium-mining-hot-topic-nevada/
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Jim Hunt

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #134 on: September 12, 2015, 08:52:31 AM »
Nissan have formally announced the new "go farther" LEAF:

Nissan GB Announce 30 kWh LEAF

Personally I'm more interested in the new battery warranty than in it's capacity
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #135 on: September 12, 2015, 06:01:20 PM »
Nissan have formally announced the new "go farther" LEAF:

Nissan GB Announce 30 kWh LEAF

Personally I'm more interested in the new battery warranty than in it's capacity
"eight year, 100,000 mile warranty," with no V2G restrictions -- not too shabby.


EPA's calculated range is expected to be 107 miles for the 30kWh battery.
http://electrek.co/2015/09/10/nissan-confirms-leaf-2016-details-107-miles-of-range-on-30-kwh-34200-starting-price-for-sv-and-more/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #136 on: September 14, 2015, 04:37:26 PM »
Battery costs fall and energy density increase faster than anticipated, says Zero Motorcycles
Zero Motorcycles announced today a significant price reduction for its 2015 model line. The manufacturer’s suggested retail price (MSRP) is lowered by $1,350 across all of the 4 models offered by Zero. The company cited the fall of battery cost and energy density increase as reasons for the price reduction.
http://electrek.co/2015/05/20/battery-costs-fall-and-energy-density-increase-faster-than-anticipated-says-zero-motorcycles/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #137 on: September 16, 2015, 12:40:30 AM »
Proterra electric bus delivers 258 miles of range in testing
Proterra offers both extended-range (XR) and fast-charge (FC) versions of its electric bus, using different battery technologies, to suit the requirements of different types of routes.

The TerraVolt FC battery option, which uses a 100 kWh pack with a lithium titanate chemistry, is designed for maximum run time with minimum charging time. This system can be recharged en route in less than ten minutes at a 500 kW charging rate.

The new Catalyst XR uses a higher energy density NMC pack. The XR is compatible with Proterra’s fast charging equipment, although it doesn’t charge as quickly as the FC – a bit less than 90 minutes.

“The purpose-driven Catalyst design affords the best efficiency rating ever for a 40-foot transit bus, at 22 MPG equivalent,” said John Sleconich, Chief Engineer at Proterra.

“Achieving this range is validation for our technology and gives us the confidence that Proterra is capable of what we initially set out to accomplish – replacing every fossil fuel bus in the United States with a fully electric one,” said Proterra CEO, Ryan Popple.
https://chargedevs.com/newswire/proterra-electric-bus-delivers-258-miles-of-range-in-testing/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #138 on: September 16, 2015, 12:49:15 AM »
SolarEdge’s new HD-Wave Inverter is a giant leap for Tesla’s Powerwall and the greater solar market
In short, SolarEdge has done for the inverter (a critical piece of the solar ecosystem which turns DC powered Solar/Wind/hydro electricity into AC which is used by homes and long poweline distance travel) what flat panels did for the TV just a decade or so ago.  The new technology uses 16 times fewer magnets, smaller thin film capacitors and much less cooling to yield a 99% efficient power transformation. That not only makes solar installs less expensive, more productive and easier, it makes Tesla’s Powerwall a whole lot smaller…
http://electrek.co/2015/09/15/solaredges-new-hd-wave-inverter-is-a-giant-leap-for-teslas-powerwall-and-the-solar-market/
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TerryM

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #139 on: September 16, 2015, 01:45:31 AM »
SolarEdge’s new HD-Wave Inverter is a giant leap for Tesla’s Powerwall and the greater solar market
In short, SolarEdge has done for the inverter (a critical piece of the solar ecosystem which turns DC powered Solar/Wind/hydro electricity into AC which is used by homes and long poweline distance travel) what flat panels did for the TV just a decade or so ago.  The new technology uses 16 times fewer magnets, smaller thin film capacitors and much less cooling to yield a 99% efficient power transformation. That not only makes solar installs less expensive, more productive and easier, it makes Tesla’s Powerwall a whole lot smaller…
http://electrek.co/2015/09/15/solaredges-new-hd-wave-inverter-is-a-giant-leap-for-teslas-powerwall-and-the-solar-market/


WOW !!


At 1,500 Watts the wife could run her portable hair dryer or I could toast a few slices of bread - as long as we didn't try to do both tasks at the same time.


1,500 Watts isn't a whole lot of energy ;>(


Terry

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #140 on: September 16, 2015, 01:03:02 PM »
SolarEdge’s new HD-Wave Inverter is a giant leap for Tesla’s Powerwall and the greater solar market
In short, SolarEdge has done for the inverter (a critical piece of the solar ecosystem which turns DC powered Solar/Wind/hydro electricity into AC which is used by homes and long poweline distance travel) what flat panels did for the TV just a decade or so ago.  The new technology uses 16 times fewer magnets, smaller thin film capacitors and much less cooling to yield a 99% efficient power transformation. That not only makes solar installs less expensive, more productive and easier, it makes Tesla’s Powerwall a whole lot smaller…
http://electrek.co/2015/09/15/solaredges-new-hd-wave-inverter-is-a-giant-leap-for-teslas-powerwall-and-the-solar-market/


WOW !!


At 1,500 Watts the wife could run her portable hair dryer or I could toast a few slices of bread - as long as we didn't try to do both tasks at the same time.


1,500 Watts isn't a whole lot of energy ;>(


Terry


Efficiency of 99% reducing losses by 33% to 50% and you decide to comment on 1500Watts as not a' whole lot'. This seems highly irrelevant as it is an option for back up power on a 6KW or 7.6KW inverter. Lots, probably large majority of rooftop solar installations are less than 6KW (mine is under 4 KW). So you seem to be ridiculing it for completely irrelevant reasons.


1500W is enough to keep a couple of PCs running. My guess is most people would continue to buy UPS for computers and other equipment they want to keep running rather than take up such an option as running the cables from the inverter to their PC would be too much hassle/costly/too ugly so there would be little take up of this option. Installing electric for first time at an off-grid location may be a different matter and for such situations I suggest toast and hairdryer at the same time hardly seems a priority.


Jim Hunt

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #141 on: September 16, 2015, 01:14:41 PM »
1,500 Watts isn't a whole lot of energy ;>

You'll be wanting a  BEV in your garage as well then Terry?

http://www.V2G.co.uk/2012/06/nissan-announce-leaf-to-home-power-supply-system/
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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #142 on: September 16, 2015, 08:53:42 PM »
Following the acquisition of Seeo, Bosch expects to bring solid-state battery cells to market in 5 years
http://electrek.co/2015/09/16/following-the-acquisition-of-seeo-bosch-expects-to-bring-solid-state-battery-cells-to-market-in-5-years/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #143 on: September 17, 2015, 04:14:25 AM »
Why storing solar energy and using it at night is closer than you think
That’s what’s so significant about energy storage — it takes away the need to use electricity immediately, giving flexibility in when you use power from different sources. And once we break through this barrier, the consequences could be transformative.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2015/09/16/why-using-solar-energy-at-night-is-closer-than-you-think/
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TerryM

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #144 on: September 17, 2015, 11:02:27 AM »
Does anyone here know the efficiency of new batteries?

If I pump 100W into one battery pack, say from a solar array, how any W are available as output from this battery?

Is this figure effected by the time the charge is stored in the battery? Is temperature a consideration, and does temperature during charge, temperature during storage or temperature during discharge enter into the equation?

Are new batteries more efficient than old lead acid batteries & are they more efficient under all conditions?

My questions are partially the result of climatic conditions here in Canada. My thought is that a battery that handles summer conditions in say Las Vegas might not be optimal in Northern Quebec, and that electric vehicles may not be well suited to regions with:

Short periods of daylight necessitating additional head light usage.
Cold conditions during charging.
Cold conditions during storage.
Cold conditions during driving that necessitate a heated cab.

I'm very much in favor of electric autos, but I recall how lead/acid batteries lost much of their charge during Canadian winters, as well as how short battery life can be during summer desert conditions, when daytime temperatures are regularly >45C.
 
The need for automotive air conditioning during much of the year in hot climates, as well as the need for cab heating in Canada for much of the year might marginalize their use unless batteries are developed that can either operate over a wide temperature range, or else batteries are developed that are maximised for specific conditions.
 
Terry

Jim Hunt

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #145 on: September 17, 2015, 11:49:33 AM »
Does anyone here know the efficiency of new batteries? Is temperature a consideration, and does temperature during charge, temperature during storage or temperature during discharge enter into the equation?

Temperature is undoubtedly an issue, and I have recent personal experience of some unfortunate side effects of night driving / temperature on Li-ion traction batteries. That BMW i3 had plenty of petrol in its REx tank too!

I'll see if I can find out more facts and figures about using EVs in cold climates.

P.S. They are certainly available in Canada:

http://driving.ca/bmw/reviews/road-test/long-term-car-review-2015-bmw-i3-rex-part-1
« Last Edit: September 17, 2015, 12:04:36 PM by Jim Hunt »
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Neven

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #146 on: September 17, 2015, 12:34:07 PM »
Does the BMW i3 use petrol or electricity when it transforms into a robot? Or is there a tiny atomic reactor somewhere?  ;)

Terry, there's a lot of info on the Internet that answers your questions, but here's a comparison of lead acid vs lithium. For instance, wrt temperature:

Lead acid batteries and lithium lose their capacity in cold environments. As you can see in the diagram below, Lithium-ion batteries are much more efficient at low temperatures. Moreover, the discharge rate affects the performance of lead acid batteries. At -20°C, a Lithium battery that delivers a 1C current (one times its capacity), can deliver more than 80% of its energy when the AGM battery will deliver 30% of its capacity. For harsh environments (hot and cold), Lithium-Ion is the technological choice.

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Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #147 on: September 17, 2015, 02:38:21 PM »
...
I'm very much in favor of electric autos, but I recall how lead/acid batteries lost much of their charge during Canadian winters, as well as how short battery life can be during summer desert conditions, when daytime temperatures are regularly >45C.
 
The need for automotive air conditioning during much of the year in hot climates, as well as the need for cab heating in Canada for much of the year might marginalize their use unless batteries are developed that can either operate over a wide temperature range, or else batteries are developed that are maximised for specific conditions.
 
Terry
Terry,
Yes, cabin heat and A/C definitely affect EV range.  For that reason, newer EV's come with a heated steering wheel and heated seats, which warm a body much more efficiently than trying to heat the entire cabin. :)

Tesla offers a "Subzero Weather Package", which adds Rear seat heaters, Wiper blade defrosters and Washer nozzle heaters -- but no battery enhancements, apparently.
http://teslaliving.net/2014/07/21/teslas-subzero-weather-package/

This (fun) video follows a Norwegian driver who took a long winter trip without range anxiety -- by covering up the remaing-range meter on the display.  ::)
http://gas2.org/2013/06/25/video-norwegians-put-tesla-model-s-to-cold-weather-test/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #148 on: September 17, 2015, 04:10:01 PM »
And then there's this:

Bosch: Our new EV heat pump system can increase range by up to 25%
https://chargedevs.com/newswire/bosch-our-new-ev-heat-pump-system-can-increase-range-by-up-to-25/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #149 on: September 17, 2015, 07:07:19 PM »
Jefferies predicts Tesla will achieve a 50%+ reduction in battery cost by 2020
The Gigafactory, which is expected to begin production in early ’16, should drive down pack-level costs by 70% to ~$38/kWh via economies of scale, supply chain optimization, increased automation, and production domestication.
http://electrek.co/2015/09/17/jefferies-predicts-tesla-will-achieve-a-50-reduction-in-battery-cost-by-2020/
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.