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numerobis

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #500 on: August 04, 2017, 07:30:23 PM »
Hopefully by 2019 you'll be able to buy a decent EV without getting a 2-year waiting list. We're not living in the Soviet Union.

I'm hoping my current car makes it to the time widespread car ownership stops being a thing.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #501 on: August 04, 2017, 08:32:03 PM »
When I first read "Batteries" in your post, swoozle, I thought it was an OT comment!  Then I noticed the thread's title (that is, I noticed where I was). 

My 2002 Prius got new batteries in 2009 (at ~80,000 miles and fully under warrantee!).  Anybody have an idea how long the 'new' batteries will last (now @ 135,000 miles)?  (In other words, should I put $1K down for a Model 3 - to be delivered in, approximately, 2019, or plan to buy new batteries.)

 I don't have any stats for you, but Toyota has not enjoyed great success with its Prius batteries –– I think that's one reason they gave up and turned to hydrogen instead of developing pure EVs.

By 2019, Tesla should be making over 500,000 cars a year, so with you being in the U.S., you should be able to order one without a reservation.  Plus (dare I say it ;) ), some other EV (or car service) may catch your eye by then.
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Bob Wallace

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #502 on: August 05, 2017, 08:50:36 AM »
I would imagine that there is one or more Prius owner forums online where you might be able to get some good information.

I'd suggest that your first experience may not tell you anything about how a 'next' set of batteries might last.  Battery tech seems to be moving along at a rapid pace.

ghoti

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #503 on: August 05, 2017, 05:21:29 PM »
Non-plugin Prius batteries are extremely old tech - considered unusable for battery electrics. They are NiMH. Toyota's fear of Li Ion batteries prevented their advance into battery electric cars.

Tor Bejnar

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #504 on: August 05, 2017, 10:23:46 PM »
I've read that 180,000 miles for Prius batteries is typical, so I have 125,000 to go, or about 18 years, given how I have been driving it!  I'll deserve a new car when I'm 80.   :)  And I'll be a safe driver then because it will be self-driving car.   :P
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TerryM

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #505 on: August 05, 2017, 10:58:30 PM »
When Prius was first introduced into the states they had a lifetime warranty on the battery, or so the saleslady informed me. I'd been concerned as at the time I lived in the desert and the extreme heat was hard on the lead acid batteries.
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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #506 on: August 07, 2017, 04:22:25 PM »
Electric Car Boom Drives Rush to Mining's $90 Billion Heartland
Lithium scramble likened to Big Oil’s race to Middle East
Australia cementing status as a dominant supplier, UBS says
Quote
A scramble by the lithium market’s biggest players to tie up supply of the high-tech metal is gathering pace in the 170-year-old heartland of Australia’s $90 billion mining industry.

Rising Chinese demand for lithium-ion batteries needed for electric vehicles and energy storage is driving significant price gains and an asset boom in Australia, already the world’s largest lithium producer. The fast-developing hub is drawing investment and deals from global producers as well as chemical-to-battery manufacturers in China, the top consumer. ...
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-06/electric-car-boom-drives-rush-to-mining-s-90-billion-heartland
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TerryM

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #507 on: August 08, 2017, 02:36:39 AM »
I saw some large orchards being torn out for a massive solar installation yesterday. Left me with mixed feelings.
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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #509 on: August 08, 2017, 03:23:01 PM »
And they are only running it 40% of the time!

Tesla Gigafactory is already producing more batteries than any other factory in the world, says Elon Musk
https://electrek.co/2017/08/08/tesla-gigafactory-battery-cell-production-elon-musk
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #510 on: August 08, 2017, 05:41:45 PM »
 Because they are turning over a new LEAF?  ;) ;D

Nissan confirms the sale of its electric car battery business
https://electrek.co/2017/08/08/nissan-sale-electric-car-battery-business/
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ghoti

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #511 on: August 08, 2017, 06:16:45 PM »
Because they are turning over a new LEAF?  ;) ;D

Nissan confirms the sale of its electric car battery business
https://electrek.co/2017/08/08/nissan-sale-electric-car-battery-business/
Because they recognize they aren't very good at making batteries. They treat them as a commodity to be out sourced like the vast majority of part in their cars just like all major car makers. In ICE vehicles only the engines are considered a core in house part they can compete with.

This is a bad sign for the future of car makers. With EVs what is left to distinguish between brands? Design? They all copy each other. Electronics? They are mostly seriously lacking. Self-driving capability? Maybe but likely they will all outsource that too.

Bob Wallace

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #512 on: August 08, 2017, 07:12:26 PM »
And they are only running it 40% of the time!

Tesla Gigafactory is already producing more batteries than any other factory in the world, says Elon Musk
https://electrek.co/2017/08/08/tesla-gigafactory-battery-cell-production-elon-musk

Tesla is running only 30% of the total Gigafactory 40% of the time.  They're still building 70% of the plant.  More batteries than any other factory in the world at 12% target output.

And Tesla is going to start construction on 2 to  4 more.  They be battery makin' fools....

numerobis

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #513 on: August 08, 2017, 10:57:50 PM »
I just learned a childhood friend is into batteries and has founded a company providing batteries to replace portable generators:
http://www.portable-electric.com

It seems like an obvious fit.

TerryM

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #514 on: August 09, 2017, 12:28:09 AM »
I just learned a childhood friend is into batteries and has founded a company providing batteries to replace portable generators:
http://www.portable-electric.com

It seems like an obvious fit.


A nice concept. Locally concerts and fairs all seem wired through the grid, but this might allow events to be held at more remote sites.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #515 on: August 10, 2017, 01:30:03 AM »
So many batteries, so little time: Tesla is using battery cells from Samsung (not its usual partner, Panasonic) to build its power packs for the giant Australia storage project.

Tesla’s giant new Powerpack project in Australia will use battery cells made by Samsung
Quote
On a conference call hosted by Goldman Sachs for bondholders following Tesla’s new bond issuance earlier this week, Musk said that Tesla would actually use Samsung cells in the Powerpacks for the major project in South Australia, according to sources who were on the call.

That’s a significant project to partner on with Samsung since it represents more energy capacity on a single project (129 MWh) than Tesla delivered in all its Powerpack projects combined during the entire last quarter (97 MWh).

While Korea-based Samsung SDI is making the cells, Tesla is still building the Powerpacks for the project at the Gigafactory in Nevada. ...
https://electrek.co/2017/08/09/tesla-powerpack-project-australia-battery-cell-samsung/
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Neven

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #516 on: August 10, 2017, 02:32:43 AM »
Okay, so the lithium is mined in Australia, shipped to Korea where they make the batteries, shipped to Nevada where they assemble the Powerpacks, and then shipped back to Australia again for instalment.

Sounds to me like there's some room for LCA improvement there!  ;)
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Bob Wallace

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #517 on: August 10, 2017, 02:38:26 AM »
Okay, so the lithium is mined in Australia, shipped to Korea where they make the batteries, shipped to Nevada where they assemble the Powerpacks, and then shipped back to Australia again for instalment.

Sounds to me like there's some room for LCA improvement there!  ;)

Correct.  I think we're going to soon hear about upcoming construction to build a Tesla battery factory in Australia.  Due to very high electricity prices, cheap rooftop solar, and a lot of end-user solar already installed Australia should be a place where Tesla will sell a lot of their storage units. 

If Tesla does announce four new Gigafactories in the next month or two I expect one in Australia, one in the US, one in Europe and one in Asia.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #518 on: August 10, 2017, 03:53:38 PM »
Don't know why we talk of PV in the battery trend....

Oops!  Quite right.  "Solar in Japan" post moved to Renewable Energy thread:

https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,256.msg124652.html#msg124652
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numerobis

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #519 on: August 11, 2017, 05:17:15 PM »
Okay, so the lithium is mined in Australia, shipped to Korea where they make the batteries, shipped to Nevada where they assemble the Powerpacks, and then shipped back to Australia again for instalment.

Sounds to me like there's some room for LCA improvement there!  ;)

I wonder how much the shipping adds in cost (carbon cost or dollar cost). My bet: minimal.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #520 on: August 15, 2017, 03:56:43 AM »
“Carlsson said that they aimed to produce advanced li-ion battery cell in different formats with a cost below $100 per kWh.”

Former Tesla execs launch funding effort for their own battery gigafactory in Europe
Quote
The actual start of production is expected in 2020 with a capacity of 8 GWh per year and they aim for 32 GWh of capacity once the entire factory will be completed in 2023. It’s comparable to Tesla’s expected production capacity in 2018 for Gigafactory 1 in Nevada.
https://electrek.co/2017/08/14/former-tesla-execs-funding-battery-gigafactory-europe/
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Bob Wallace

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #521 on: August 15, 2017, 05:22:28 AM »
If someone can get battery prices below $100/kWh and maintain good cycle life then things are really going to be shaken up.  Given that there's no sign this company is also intending to build cars they would become a source for really affordable batteries in Europe and someone is going to use them to grab a lot of market away from ICEVs.

Let's hope they can pull it off.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #522 on: September 14, 2017, 06:07:23 PM »
During Hurricane Irma’s Power Outages, Some Houses Kept The Lights On With Solar And Batteries
Quote
In Antigua, which managed to escape severe damage during Irma (unlike nearby Barbuda), the government has been installing microgrids throughout the island for critical infrastructure like hospitals and storm shelters. Those microgrids run partially on solar and battery power.
https://www.fastcompany.com/40467003/during-irmas-power-outages-some-houses-kept-the-lights-on-with-solar-and-batteries
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #523 on: September 14, 2017, 06:52:20 PM »
Looks like the big Australia battery project should be finished by the end of September!

Tesla is holding a ‘celebration’ event at its new giant Powerpack project on Sept 29
https://electrek.co/2017/09/13/tesla-celebration-event-giant-powerpack-site-sept-29/
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silkman

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #524 on: September 14, 2017, 09:57:11 PM »
Drax, the UK's biggest power station, in East Yorkshire is planning to install "up to" 200MW of battery storage as part on an investment programme to convert its remaining two coal fired units to gas. The other four units have been converted to biomass, controversially sourced from the SE US:

http://www.powerengineeringint.com/articles/2017/09/drax-plans-world-s-largest-battery-storage-facility.html

Makes the 22 behind the meter 4kw units we've just installed in Cheshire social housing with the help of a government grant look puny. They're reducing electricity bills for the tenants by around 35% though.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #525 on: September 28, 2017, 09:15:42 PM »
Tesla is ramping up installations of its Powerwall version 2 home batteries.

Tesla Powerwall 2 installations finally start to accelerate
https://electrek.co/2017/09/27/tesla-powerwall-2-installations-swell/

Tesla unveils ‘Founder series’ red Powerwall 2 and prepares deliveries
https://electrek.co/2017/09/28/tesla-founder-series-red-powerwall-2/

(Historical Note: "Founders series" Tesla cars have gone to the earliest buyers, been more expensive than the regular versions of the car, and have been a unique red color not otherwise available.)
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #526 on: September 29, 2017, 09:49:08 PM »
Update on the huge Tesla battery project on South Australia.  The interconnection agreement with the local utility has been signed, which was the requirement to start the deadline for Elon Musk’s bet to “deliver the project in 100 days or it’s free.”  A good chunk of it is already up and running (see the bottom video in the linked article).

First look at Tesla’s new ‘most powerful battery system in the world’ project in Australia
https://electrek.co/2017/09/29/tesla-new-giant-powerpack-project-in-australia/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #527 on: September 29, 2017, 10:00:13 PM »
Cross-posted frm the Hurricane 2017 thread.  Great news!

Tesla is sending hundreds of battery packs to power outage-ridden Puerto Rico
Quote
Now we learn that Tesla has been quietly shipping Powerwalls to Puerto Rico ever since the hurricane cleared. Bloomberg first reported yesterday and Tesla later confirmed to Electrek.

They have now sent ‘hundreds’ of battery packs to be paired with solar installations in the ravaged region in order to help restore power faster to a certain degree. ...
https://electrek.co/2017/09/29/tesla-powerwall-battery-packs-to-power-outage-ridden-puerto-rico/
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etienne

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #528 on: October 06, 2017, 05:01:21 PM »
Did anybody already heard of the
http://aquionenergy.com/technology/deep-cycle-battery/ ?

I found a reference in the renewable energy trend.

Sound too good to be true. I heard that the hydrogen was a byproduct of water batteries, so I am a little bit surprised.

Bob Wallace

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #529 on: October 06, 2017, 05:28:57 PM »
Aquion has been around for a long time (in terms of new battery tech).  They were seen as promising a few years back and then sort of disappeared into the fog of companies that claimed they had a good solution but never delivered.

I have no idea if they might have solved some problems that would allow them to become a player or if someone is "making themselves a salary".

Looking at their comparison list they are not as good as lithium in terms of capacity and energy delivery.  Density is not too large a problem as long as they are vastly larger per kWh.  Energy density problems might mean that they are best for deep storage rather than grid management.

I've become a strict Missourian when it comes to batteries.  Show me.  Show me your product in operation in the real world and show me reliable real world data.

We'll see....

Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #530 on: October 07, 2017, 02:29:14 AM »
Cross-posted frm the Hurricane 2017 thread.  Great news!

Tesla is sending hundreds of battery packs to power outage-ridden Puerto Rico
Quote
Now we learn that Tesla has been quietly shipping Powerwalls to Puerto Rico ever since the hurricane cleared. Bloomberg first reported yesterday and Tesla later confirmed to Electrek.

They have now sent ‘hundreds’ of battery packs to be paired with solar installations in the ravaged region in order to help restore power faster to a certain degree. ...
https://electrek.co/2017/09/29/tesla-powerwall-battery-packs-to-power-outage-ridden-puerto-rico/

Update:

Tesla to stop Powerwall shipments to installers price gouging in Puerto Rico
Quote
“Tesla sent the battery packs, but after speaking with locals trying to get them installed, Electrek learned that local installers are difficult to reach and some are charging as much as $12,000 for a Powerwall with the installation.”

That’s a premium of as much as 50% on the price that Tesla lists on its website.

Elon Musk: "Tesla always charges the same price for a Powerwall (only taxes & shipping costs vary), so something is messed up here. I've asked my team to stop shipment to any installers charging excessive premiums."
...
“The internal Tesla Powerwall install team in PR is very small right now. Sending experienced installers from continental US to hire & train local team as fast as possible.”


The installation is apparently the current bottleneck for getting the Tesla Powerwall in Puerto Rico so that initiative is likely to accelerate the deployment.

There are apparently a lot of rooftop solar installations that survived the two hurricanes but they could use the home battery packs as their grid connections are currently useless.
https://electrek.co/2017/10/06/tesla-powerwall-installers-price-gouging-puerto-rico/
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numerobis

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #531 on: October 07, 2017, 08:41:57 PM »
I got beaten to the punch! First powerwall in Canada north of 60 just got installed.

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/north/inuvik-power-wall-tesla-no-outage-1.4345092

The install cost seems insane.

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #532 on: October 07, 2017, 09:10:50 PM »
The install cost is insane.  I wonder how large a crew was flown in to do the installation. 

And why?  Seems like this is something that could be done by a local electrician.  Worst case they might need to do a training video and do some over the web supervision.


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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #533 on: October 07, 2017, 11:23:07 PM »
Inuvik, population 3200 is very unlikely to have specialists of any trade. Flight to Inuvik from Edmonton $2000 for each installer. Enough electrical work to take two days for 2 people = expensive!

It is crazy expensive to do anything in the NWT and Nunavut. A gallon of milk costs $10.50.

The Powerwall has a fixed price from Tesla so no surprise it was the least expensive part of the project.

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #534 on: October 08, 2017, 12:05:44 AM »
"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

numerobis

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #535 on: October 08, 2017, 02:10:27 PM »
Every little community has an electrician who built the houses in the first place and is maintaining them — and lots of people have backup power (normally from a generator). It might be you can’t get the Tesla certified installer without flying them in.

ghoti

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #536 on: October 08, 2017, 06:21:34 PM »
Every little community has an electrician who built the houses in the first place and is maintaining them — and lots of people have backup power (normally from a generator). It might be you can’t get the Tesla certified installer without flying them in.
Ah! So one great way to promote future renewable energy is affordable would be to get the one electrician trained and certified to these installations. Perfect type of government program to help people help themselves. There's no way this electrician could afford to fly to Tesla for training but it would probably cost less than a couple of installations to do it. Then the future price of battery installations would drop dramatically.


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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #537 on: October 08, 2017, 06:57:09 PM »
Installing solar systems is pretty simple stuff.  I've done three residential systems and I have no electrician background.

We're now at the point where the system can be basically 'plug and play'.  I spent at least a full day wiring my 16 panels for my current system.  Take off the junction box cover.  Install waterproof nuts for cable. Cut and strip wires, bend the ends and insert them under the appropriate lug screws, replace the junction box cover.

Now panels come pre-wired.  You just plug them together much like plugging a lamp cord into the wall outlet.

Entire systems can be designed online.  The components can be shipped along with step by step instructions.  Anyone with basic building skills should be able to install a system.

We could even do remote inspections for those places where there isn't a building inspector close by.  Do an inspection by smartphone with the inspector instructing the installer to show them the job and critical details.

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #538 on: October 23, 2017, 03:57:22 PM »
Germany:  Mercedes-Benz builds impressive energy storage facility using electric Smart car battery packs
Quote
Daimler has its ‘Mercedes-Benz Energy’ subsidiary and the company unveils today an impressive new project using its vehicle battery packs for stationary energy storage.  The German automaker is putting aside 3,000 battery modules from its production for the third-generation smart electric car toward a new energy storage facility managed by enercity, a German electric utility, in Herrenhausen.

They have already installed 1,800 battery modules out of the total 3,000 and they announced today that they brought the system online.  It is being used to balance out the important amount of solar and wind energy on the German grid:

“In the event of increasing fluctuations in electricity feed-in from renewable energies such as wind and solar energy, such storage units help to ensure optimum balancing of the grid frequency, which must be constantly stabilised. With their storage capacity, they balance the energy fluctuations with virtually no losses – a task which is currently predominantly performed by fast-rotating turbines, rotating masses in large power stations. Around half of the planned system strands is already coupled with the network with an output of 5 MW.”
...
https://electrek.co/2017/10/23/mercedes-benz-daimler-energy-storage-facility-using-electric-smart-car-battery-packs/
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ghoti

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #539 on: October 23, 2017, 04:52:37 PM »
Quote
Germany:  Mercedes-Benz builds impressive energy storage facility using electric Smart car battery packs
I am struck at how extremely expensive their setup is excluding the battery costs. This is an indoor facility with massive air conditioning built in - real estate, building, air conditioning, building maintenance are all huge additional costs. Seems like an odd way to go about building electricity storage.

numerobis

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #540 on: October 23, 2017, 05:02:48 PM »
Entire systems can be designed online.  The components can be shipped along with step by step instructions.  Anyone with basic building skills should be able to install a system.

Do you have a website for that? Or is this "can" in the theoretical sense?

Bob Wallace

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #541 on: October 23, 2017, 07:14:36 PM »
Entire systems can be designed online.  The components can be shipped along with step by step instructions.  Anyone with basic building skills should be able to install a system.

Do you have a website for that? Or is this "can" in the theoretical sense?

That's been the case for rooftop solar for some time.  Companies selling solar packages will design your system and ship you the components.  Lead acid batteries are generally sourced locally.

Then there's the recent announcement of a 'solar farm in a box'.  Large systems shipped in shipping containers.

TerryM

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #542 on: October 23, 2017, 10:06:49 PM »
Quote
Germany:  Mercedes-Benz builds impressive energy storage facility using electric Smart car battery packs
I am struck at how extremely expensive their setup is excluding the battery costs. This is an indoor facility with massive air conditioning built in - real estate, building, air conditioning, building maintenance are all huge additional costs. Seems like an odd way to go about building electricity storage.
Is it possible that the batteries involved are at their best at a particular ambient temperature? It might actually save money keeping them at this thermal optimal, if there is actually a thermal optimal.
Terry

Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #543 on: October 24, 2017, 12:44:21 AM »
Quote
Germany:  Mercedes-Benz builds impressive energy storage facility using electric Smart car battery packs
I am struck at how extremely expensive their setup is excluding the battery costs. This is an indoor facility with massive air conditioning built in - real estate, building, air conditioning, building maintenance are all huge additional costs. Seems like an odd way to go about building electricity storage.
Is it possible that the batteries involved are at their best at a particular ambient temperature? It might actually save money keeping them at this thermal optimal, if there is actually a thermal optimal.
Terry

 Batteries definitely have optimum operating temperatures. But, for example, Tesla's EV batteries, Powerwalls (residential), and Powerpacks (commercial/utility) have integrated liquid cooling systems, so they can be used indoors or out.

The LEAF's air-cooled system is blamed for its batteries not faring well in hot areas like the southwestern U.S.  If the batteries Daimler is using don't have active thermal management, they'd be forced to limit installation to indoor, temperature-controlled locations -- a considerable restriction, but I guess they worked with what they had.
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

TerryM

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #544 on: October 24, 2017, 09:52:47 AM »
Batteries definitely have optimum operating temperatures. But, for example, Tesla's EV batteries, Powerwalls (residential), and Powerpacks (commercial/utility) have integrated liquid cooling systems, so they can be used indoors or out.

The LEAF's air-cooled system is blamed for its batteries not faring well in hot areas like the southwestern U.S.  If the batteries Daimler is using don't have active thermal management, they'd be forced to limit installation to indoor, temperature-controlled locations -- a considerable restriction, but I guess they worked with what they had.
Perhaps, even when the batteries do have cooling systems built in, it's more efficient to disconnect these and have the required cooling provided by an independent system, when such cooling can economically be made available.
Terry

Jim Hunt

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #545 on: October 24, 2017, 10:04:37 AM »
Do you have a website for that? Or is this "can" in the theoretical sense?

From this side of the pond:

https://www.sunnydesignweb.com/sdweb/#/Home
"The most revolutionary thing one can do always is to proclaim loudly what is happening" - Rosa Luxemburg

numerobis

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #546 on: October 24, 2017, 03:33:00 PM »
Nice website Jim. It's not linked to being able to purchase anything though, so you still need to run around and find quotes (which installers try hard not to give you).


Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #547 on: November 23, 2017, 02:21:04 PM »
Elon Musk:  Congratulations to the Tesla crew and South Australian authorities who worked so hard to get this manufactured and installed in record time!
    https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/933576358793318401


Elon Musk had 100 days to build the world's biggest battery. He's done.
Quote
Tesla has completed installing its colossal lithium ion battery in South Australia, a Powerpack system with 100 megawatts of capacity. But now comes the test.

Regulatory testing will begin in the next few days to ensure the battery is optimised and meets AEMO and South Australian Government requirements, before operation commences on Dec. 1. ...
http://mashable.com/2017/11/23/tesla-battery-powerpack-australia/


Edit: more...
“What was first supposed to be a 100 MWh project, making it one of the biggest batteries in the world, turned into a 100 MW/ 129 MWh project, making it the most powerful battery system in the world by a significant margin.”
https://electrek.co/2017/11/23/tesla-worlds-largest-li-ion-battery-system-in-australia/
« Last Edit: November 23, 2017, 04:04:36 PM by Sigmetnow »
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #548 on: November 30, 2017, 05:14:06 PM »
The Multibillion-Dollar Opportunity for Battery Storage
Energy storage is entering a phase of growth that could make it a big player in energy before you know it.
Quote
Tesla (NASDAQ:TSLA) completed the world's largest battery storage installation in South Australia recently, a 129 Megawatt-hours (MWh) project that will shave the peak demand in a high-cost part of the country. The project shows how big energy storage projects can be, but it's also just the tip of the iceberg for energy storage.

A new report from Bloomberg New Energy Finance (BNEF) predicts that 305,000 MWh of energy storage will be installed between 2017 and 2030, or 2,364 projects the size of Tesla's South Australia storage system. The numbers are mind-boggling, but if the history of renewable energy is any indication, the opportunity could be even bigger than the most bullish projections.
...
To put the scale of 305 GWh in perspective, that's the equivalent of 22.6 million Tesla Powerwalls or 1.5 million Tesla Powerpacks.

Where energy storage will experience growth

According to BNEF, the U.S. will be the No. 1 market for battery storage between now and 2030. There are a few reasons that could be true, depending on how the industry plays out. The first is that the U.S. has an aging electricity infrastructure, and as old assets go offline or need to be upgraded, energy storage can fill the gap. New York has already demonstrated what this will look like, deferring $1 billion in spending on a new substation by installing $200 million in energy storage. Utilities can also use storage to smooth the peaks and valleys of wind and solar generation or shave peak demand during the middle of the day by storing energy at night, saving money for the grid.

It's not just utilities, however, that will see value in battery storage. Commercial buildings and homes will be huge demand sources over the next decade. Commercial customers are using energy storage to reduce their demand charges, which are fees paid based on the peak amount of electricity used in a month, even if it's only for a few minutes. Batteries are being justified economically today by decreasing these charges.

Homeowners are a likely growth market because they're facing increased fees for installing solar and the loss of net metering in some states. Energy storage will allow self-consumption of electricity or arbitrage between times of high and low rates from the utility. ...
https://www.fool.com/investing/2017/11/30/the-multi-billion-dollar-opportunity-for-battery-s.aspx
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Bob Wallace

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #549 on: November 30, 2017, 06:51:03 PM »
Any prediction about renewable energy that's even five years long is likely to be worthless.  Technology is changing very rapidly and prices coming down faster than almost everyone predicts.

Five years ago almost no one was predicting we'd see solar at $1/watt.

Five years ago the first Tesla S had not been sold.

Five years ago there were no Superchargers and no one was talking about creating a rapid charging system.

Five years ago no one was talking about a battery gigafactory.

Five years ago there was no company that could install a very large storage system in less than 100 days.

Five years ago there were no floating wind turbines.

Five years ago the average CF for new US wind farms was about half what it is now.

Things will probably happen in the next two years that will blow up Bloomberg's predictions.