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numerobis

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #700 on: April 27, 2018, 10:20:12 PM »
Neat!

A friend of mine is starting up a software team there, if anyone is looking for a job in Sweden.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #701 on: May 02, 2018, 12:44:32 AM »
Grid-tied batteries for energy-intensive factories?  It just makes economic sense.

They claim that it is the first of such energy storage system being deployed at a manufacturing facility in Britain.

Tesla deploys a 2 MW Powerpack system to avoid any downtime due to power outages at a glass factory
https://electrek.co/2018/04/30/tesla-powerpack-glass-factory/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #702 on: May 02, 2018, 01:57:04 AM »
Mercedes-Benz kills its ‘Tesla Powerwall killer’ energy storage device
Quote
A spokesperson told GTM that their product was too expensive for the market because it was overengineered to be a vehicle battery pack and not a stationary home battery pack....
https://electrek.co/2018/04/30/mercedes-benz-kills-tesla-powerwall-killer-energy-storage-device/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #703 on: May 05, 2018, 02:53:01 PM »
Tesla teases a potential giant new record-breaking 1 GWh energy storage project to be announced soon
Quote
When Russel asked Musk about the impact of bringing online the giant 129 MWh Powerpack project in South Australia, the CEO answered:

“I think it had quite a profound effect. South Australia took a chance on doing the world’s biggest battery,and it’s worked out really well. If you read the articles, it worked out far beyond their expectations because the battery is able to respond at the millisecond level – far faster than any hydrocarbon plant. So, its grid stabilization was much greater actually than even a gas turbine plant, which normally respond quite fast.

Musk is referring to the grid services that the battery pack has been performing for the South Australian grid.

As we previously reported, the giant battery system made around $1 million in just a few days back in January though frequency response and it is already eating away at ‘gas cartel’s’ profits, according to a recent report.

Like Musk mentioned, it is proving to be much more efficient than the hydrocarbon peaker plants that the grid operators generally use to stabilize the grid.

But the question was about how it is impacting demand, so Musk continued:

The utilities that we’ve worked eith thus far have really loved the battery pack and I feel confident that we’ll be able to announce a deal at the gigawatt-hour scale within a matter of months. So, it’s 1,000-megawatt-hours…”

That comment is extremely important, but it sort of fell through the cracks.

Musk is talking about an upcoming announcement of a giant energy storage project several times bigger than anything that has ever been done before. ...
https://electrek.co/2018/05/05/tesla-record-1-gwh-energy-storage-announced-soon/
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numerobis

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #704 on: May 06, 2018, 03:12:55 PM »
https://www.utilitydive.com/news/heco-proposes-2-large-battery-projects-to-support-renewables-push/522687/

Two new large battery systems for Hawaii: 20 MW/80 MWh for one, 100 MW/100MWh for the other.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #705 on: May 11, 2018, 06:11:04 PM »
Tesla’s giant battery in Australia reduced grid service cost by 90%
Quote
Now McKinsey and Co partner Godart van Gendt presented new data at the Australian Energy Week conference in Melbourne this week and claimed that Tesla’s battery has now taken over 55% of the FCAS services and reduced cost by 90%.

van Gendt said (via Reneweconomy):

“In the first four months of operations of the Hornsdale Power Reserve (the official name of the Tesla big battery, owned and operated by Neoen), the frequency ancillary services prices went down by 90 per cent, so that’s 9-0 per cent. And the 100MW battery has achieved over 55 per cent of the FCAS revenues in South Australia. So it’s 2 per cent of the capacity in South Australia achieving 55 per cent of the revenues in South Australia.”

South Australia is reportedly the only state that has seen a decline in FCAS costs over the period. Some estimates put the savings at over $30 million in just a few months.

Tesla Energy’s regional manager of business development Lara Olsen was also at the conference and she explained that thermal plants are bidding on FCAS based on their fuel costs, which are volatile, while Tesla is charging its batteries from wind power at a stable and cheap price. ...
https://electrek.co/2018/05/11/tesla-giant-battery-australia-reduced-grid-service-cost/
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numerobis

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #706 on: May 11, 2018, 07:01:30 PM »
Quote
So it’s 2 per cent of the capacity in South Australia achieving 55 per cent of the revenues in South Australia

That's Apple-style: small market share yet takes home all the profit. Brutal.

TerryM

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #707 on: May 11, 2018, 07:06:21 PM »
Won't someone be opening another battery bank as a competitor?


At some point I'd imagine that the profit potential would plummet.
Terry

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #708 on: May 11, 2018, 08:49:20 PM »
Well, they took 55% of 10%, which means around 5% of previous cost with 2 % of previous capacity. This looks ok, just that the others only share 5% of previous incomes.

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #709 on: May 11, 2018, 09:16:45 PM »
Well, they took 55% of 10%, which means around 5% of previous cost with 2 % of previous capacity. This looks ok, just that the others only share 5% of previous incomes.

If the savings are $30 million then the cost has fallen from ~$33 million to ~$3million and Tesla battery takes just 55% of that so $1.65 million. So $1 million in a few days and has only received $0.65 million in the rest of the six months. Looks like the $1 million is a one off and not being repeated frequently if at all. Is $0.65 million over 6 months sufficient to be profitable?

Or maybe there is other income besides that $1.65 million?

Maybe it is a loss leader period demonstrating what it can do before threatening to turn it off unless they are paid 2 or 3 times as much. $30 million cost or 3* $1.65 million isn't a difficult choice.

ghoti

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #710 on: May 11, 2018, 11:27:04 PM »
Won't someone be opening another battery bank as a competitor?


At some point I'd imagine that the profit potential would plummet.
Terry
Many other companies are jumping into the battery market in Australia. A quick look at the Reneweconomy site shows several articles on the front page about them: https://reneweconomy.com.au/

We must be aware that the Tesla battery was not built for the FCAS market but has been able to jump into it and completely disrupt it. Any money earned from it is gravy. The batteries are driving the gas peaker plants built specifically for FCAS out of business even though the Australian market is designed to support them and minimizes payout to facilities that respond "too fast".

Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #711 on: May 12, 2018, 01:49:47 AM »
Well, they took 55% of 10%, which means around 5% of previous cost with 2 % of previous capacity. This looks ok, just that the others only share 5% of previous incomes.

If the savings are $30 million then the cost has fallen from ~$33 million to ~$3million and Tesla battery takes just 55% of that so $1.65 million. So $1 million in a few days and has only received $0.65 million in the rest of the six months. Looks like the $1 million is a one off and not being repeated frequently if at all. Is $0.65 million over 6 months sufficient to be profitable?

Or maybe there is other income besides that $1.65 million?

Maybe it is a loss leader period demonstrating what it can do before threatening to turn it off unless they are paid 2 or 3 times as much. $30 million cost or 3* $1.65 million isn't a difficult choice.

From the article, Tesla argues the pricing structure needs to be updated for their new technology:
Quote
It is so efficient that it reportedly should have made around $1 million in just a few days in January, but Tesla complained last month that they are not being paid correctly because the system doesn’t account for how fast Tesla’s Powerpacks start discharging their power into the grid.

The system is basically a victim of its own efficiency, which the Australian Energy Market Operator confirmed is much more rapid, accurate and valuable than a conventional steam turbine in a report published last month.
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numerobis

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #712 on: May 12, 2018, 02:12:00 AM »
The battery was indeed built specifically for FCAS. It was also built specifically for time shifting supply.

In addition to making money off FCAS it’s making money buying cheap electricity to charge and selling expensive electricity later.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #713 on: May 13, 2018, 07:07:09 PM »
The same way Tesla updates the software in its cars for additional features, it is updating its Powerwall app to allow the best configuration for Time of Use pricing.

Tesla releases Powerwall 2 update to let owners take better advantage of variable energy costs
Quote
This new feature will only be valuable where electric utilities offer variable rates, which is becoming increasingly popular.

It will also make the biggest difference where there’s a huge margin between peak and off-peak hours. We have seen places where peak hour prices are only about twice the cost of off-peak hours, which adds up to only a few cents per kWh, but in other cases, it can be 3 to 4 times the cost of off-peak hours, which can add up to up to 40 cents per kWh.

In those places, this feature can help accelerate the payback time of a Powerwall quite significantly.
https://electrek.co/2018/05/13/tesla-releases-powerwall-2-update/
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Archimid

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #714 on: May 14, 2018, 04:37:51 PM »
Tesla Powerpacks Balancing the Grid in Terhills, Belgium

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Sleepy

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #715 on: May 14, 2018, 05:48:24 PM »
Hmm, I just checked the price for Teslas 14kWh powerwall. They must have raised the price, it would now cost me 70 500 SEK = 8 194 USD here...

Not a huge raise but the raise itself more or less equals my new energy diverter. I thought that one was expensive.
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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #716 on: May 14, 2018, 09:24:56 PM »
Tesla Powerpacks Balancing the Grid in Terhills, Belgium

...

More here.  Article includes a time-lapse video of the build:

Tesla unveils new large Powerpack project for grid balancing in Europe
https://electrek.co/2018/05/14/tesla-powerpack-project-grid-balancing-europe/
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numerobis

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #717 on: May 14, 2018, 09:41:32 PM »
Sleepy: yes, they upped the price a bit a few weeks ago.

They're having trouble ramping up fast enough to keep up with demand, and they are burning through cash pretty fast to do so. Charging more makes plenty of sense from their end.

numerobis

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #718 on: May 15, 2018, 02:12:40 PM »
The prices I’m seeing, DIY is about twice as expensive as the Tesla pack. I haven’t looked very hard for competing packs, but a cursory glance showed them all also more expensive than Tesla.

The only advantage others have is that they ship quickly.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2018, 08:34:49 PM by numerobis »

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #719 on: May 17, 2018, 01:13:43 PM »
Might be a supply for the soon-to-be-announced Gigafactory in China.

Tesla secures deal to get lithium from Australia
https://electrek.co/2018/05/17/tesla-secures-dea-lithium-australia/
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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #720 on: May 22, 2018, 02:48:51 PM »
Over 500 BMW i3 battery packs connect to the UK National Grid in latest large energy storage project

https://electrek.co/2018/05/21/bmw-i3-battery-pack-uk-national-grid-energy-storage-project/

Quote
The use of electric car battery packs to create large energy storage projects is becoming increasingly popular.

Now, a new one made of BMW i3 battery packs is connecting to the UK National Grid and has become one of the largest to date.

The project is made of six shipping container sized units, five of which house 500 i3 BMW manufactured battery packs, which each have a 33 kWh capacity.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #721 on: May 24, 2018, 01:08:30 PM »
The new South Australia government becomes enlightened.

Tesla’s massive 50,000-Powerwall virtual power plant project gets greenlight from new SA gov
Quote
Earlier this year, Tesla announced that it reached a deal with the South Australian government to install solar arrays and Powerwalls on up to 50,000 homes to create the biggest virtual power plant in the world.

A new government was elected in the state a few weeks later and they quickly cast doubts about following through with the massive plan.

But now they confirmed that they will be moving forward with Tesla’s initiative.

Tesla reached a deal with the Labor party for the virtual power plant idea and the government’s support helped the company focus on installing half of the Powerwalls in low-income households in order to reduce their energy bills. ...
https://electrek.co/2018/05/24/teslas-massive-50000-powerwall-virtual-power-plant-project-gets-greenlight-from-new-sa-gov/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #722 on: May 24, 2018, 08:31:03 PM »
“What they called ‘V1G’ is simply the capacity to control when an electric vehicle is charging in order to avoid peak demand time and stabilize the load. ...
EVs can also send back some of their energy into the grid through what is called ‘vehicle-to-grid’ or V2G.”

In the study, they found that using the technology on California’s growing fleet of electric vehicles would be “the equivalent of $12.8–$15.4 billion in stationary storage investment.”

Electric vehicle fleets could save billions with controllable load and vehicle-to-grid features
Quote
...”We show that EVs with only V1G capability provide renewables integration capability equivalent to 1.0 GW of stationary storage, a large fraction of the 1.3 GW Storage Mandate, but at a small fraction of the cost. With some vehicles being V2G capable by 2025, vehicles provide renewables integration capability far exceeding that of the Storage Mandate during critical days.”

What they called ‘V1G’ is simply the capacity to control when an electric vehicle is charging in order to avoid peak demand time and stabilize the load. ...
https://electrek.co/2018/05/24/electric-vehicle-battery-capacity-controllable-load-vehicle-to-grid-feature/
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Bob Wallace

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #723 on: May 24, 2018, 08:40:32 PM »
“What they called ‘V1G’ is simply the capacity to control when an electric vehicle is charging in order to avoid peak demand time and stabilize the load. ...
EVs can also send back some of their energy into the grid through what is called ‘vehicle-to-grid’ or V2G.”

In the study, they found that using the technology on California’s growing fleet of electric vehicles would be “the equivalent of $12.8–$15.4 billion in stationary storage investment.”

Electric vehicle fleets could save billions with controllable load and vehicle-to-grid features
Quote
...”We show that EVs with only V1G capability provide renewables integration capability equivalent to 1.0 GW of stationary storage, a large fraction of the 1.3 GW Storage Mandate, but at a small fraction of the cost. With some vehicles being V2G capable by 2025, vehicles provide renewables integration capability far exceeding that of the Storage Mandate during critical days.”

What they called ‘V1G’ is simply the capacity to control when an electric vehicle is charging in order to avoid peak demand time and stabilize the load. ...
https://electrek.co/2018/05/24/electric-vehicle-battery-capacity-controllable-load-vehicle-to-grid-feature/

That's exactly what I found with my overbuilding model.  Making vehicles battery powered and "V1G" - dispatchable loads - would allow for very high wind and solar penetration while requiring very little storage.

Only a portion of California's cars (EVs) would need to provide V2G services to cover the few days per year when wind/solar direct didn't provide.

jai mitchell

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #724 on: May 28, 2018, 05:26:40 PM »
Proposed Salton Sea (California) geothermal plant to produce renewable energy for 1,000,000 homes and enough lithium to power 6,000,000 electric cars per year.

http://www.thinkgeoenergy.com/simplified-overview-on-planned-lithium-production-from-geothermal-operations/

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SteveMDFP

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #725 on: May 28, 2018, 06:21:50 PM »
Proposed Salton Sea (California) geothermal plant to produce renewable energy for 1,000,000 homes and enough lithium to power 6,000,000 electric cars per year.

http://www.thinkgeoenergy.com/simplified-overview-on-planned-lithium-production-from-geothermal-operations/



So the plant pulls out superheated deep ground water, laden with salts, uses the heat to generate power, and as the cooled water allows the minerals to precipitate, take the lithium.  Seems like a great lithium extraction process.

But there are going to be a *lot* of minerals precipitated out, beyond lithium, including some toxic heavy metals.  I'd think that trying to pump them back down into the depths will just clog those pipes over time, because these are preciptated minerals, no longer in solution. Maybe they'll add some kind of acid to dissolve those precipitates.  But otherwise It could end up with a classic mining problem, what to do with toxic mine tailings that just accumulate after extracting useful minerals.

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #726 on: May 28, 2018, 06:52:45 PM »
since all of the water is being condensed and returned in brine to the source, and they are extracting lithium, the returning brine is less dense than the brine steam coming out of the ground.

follow up, they are using a sorbent, not precipitation.

https://cen.acs.org/articles/95/web/2017/12/greener-way-lithium.html
« Last Edit: May 28, 2018, 07:18:07 PM by jai mitchell »
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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #727 on: May 28, 2018, 07:12:16 PM »
Seems like some of the water coming out of the plant would be lost.  Unless lots of materials are extracted then some replacement water would be needed.  The brine going back down would be denser than the brine that came up.

Water injection with geothermal is not unheard of.  The Calistoga geothermal systems in Middle California inject fresh water back into the hot rock where the heat is extracted.

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #728 on: May 28, 2018, 07:19:50 PM »
Right.  To get the energy extracted, they'll need something like a cooling tower.  There'll evaporative water losses there.

My point is that in addition to lithium, they'll have metals like lead and cadmium.  They were dissolved in the hot water coming up, but they won't readily dissolve in the cold water going down.  What's the plan for the toxic product?

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #729 on: May 28, 2018, 07:35:26 PM »
I don't know the separation process.  I wonder if it would be economical to recover materials other than lithium?  Will it even be economical to extract the lithium considering the lithium brine/salts sources we have?


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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #730 on: May 28, 2018, 07:50:31 PM »
I don't know the separation process.  I wonder if it would be economical to recover materials other than lithium?  Will it even be economical to extract the lithium considering the lithium brine/salts sources we have?

Yes.  Other salt flats have commercial mineral extraction operations, and run profitably.  I think there's lots of magnesium and other minerals to be had.  I don't know how much toxic heavy metals would be there.  But these heavy metals do have industrial uses, so maybe disposal is not a problem at all.

This salt flat mineral operation would have the advantage of producing electricity for sale.  So though the capital costs might be quite a bit higher than other salt flat extraction operations, the power sales might easily more than make up for that.

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #731 on: May 28, 2018, 08:12:51 PM »
Wind and solar are getting so inexpensive that I'm not sure we're going to see much growth in other low carbon technologies.  Synfuel (hydrogen/methane) might have a future because it can solve some niche problems.


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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #732 on: May 29, 2018, 07:41:41 PM »
Tesla adversary in Arizona removes all Tesla badging and installs 10 MW Powerpack system. ;D

Large Tesla Powerpack project is quietly deployed without logos at new solar project in Arizona
https://electrek.co/2018/05/29/tesla-powerpacks-without-logo-new-solar-project-arizona/
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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #733 on: May 29, 2018, 07:51:04 PM »
It's a trend.  Some custom car company turned a Tesla S sedan into a station wagon/shooting-brake and replaced the Tesla logos with their own.

Very nice looking vehicle, but come on....


https://electrek.co/2018/05/28/tesla-model-s-wagon-remetzcar/

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #734 on: May 30, 2018, 09:13:38 AM »
“What they called ‘V1G’ is simply the capacity to control when an electric vehicle is charging in order to avoid peak demand time and stabilize the load. ...
EVs can also send back some of their energy into the grid through what is called ‘vehicle-to-grid’ or V2G.”

In the study, they found that using the technology on California’s growing fleet of electric vehicles would be “the equivalent of $12.8–$15.4 billion in stationary storage investment.”

Electric vehicle fleets could save billions with controllable load and vehicle-to-grid features

V1G is an interesting idea as a halfway house between having an isolated large battery sat in your garage/driveway and a fully integrated V2G grid management system that would appear to be lighy


Quote
...”We show that EVs with only V1G capability provide renewables integration capability equivalent to 1.0 GW of stationary storage, a large fraction of the 1.3 GW Storage Mandate, but at a small fraction of the cost. With some vehicles being V2G capable by 2025, vehicles provide renewables integration capability far exceeding that of the Storage Mandate during critical days.”

What they called ‘V1G’ is simply the capacity to control when an electric vehicle is charging in order to avoid peak demand time and stabilize the load. ...
https://electrek.co/2018/05/24/electric-vehicle-battery-capacity-controllable-load-vehicle-to-grid-feature/

V1G seems to be an interesting stepping stone towards a fully integrated V2G enabled grid that seems light years away in the UK.

I'm really happy with the performance of my newly acquired BMW i3 and with a modest 2.5k solar array on my roof I'm actively engaged in utilising that power as effectively as I can with both Carbon and £££ in mind.

I have what the UK government tells me is a "Smart" meter that has very little brain but it does let me monitor when my house is exporting power to the grid remotely. This allows me manually to dump that exported power into the car battery with the result that I have some essentially carbon free, £ free miles in the tank, generated at a time when it would almost certainly also be beneficial for grid balancing.

To have V1G technology that could perform the same function in an integrated way would be excellent. In the meantime I'll keep an eye on my Smart meter and pop out to the garage when it makes sense.

Bob Wallace

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #735 on: May 30, 2018, 04:11:13 PM »
Can you control your EV's charging from your phone or computer?  If so, you're V1G ready. 

Once there are enough EVs on the road I expect to see utilities offer programs where a driver can set their minimum charge when they leave for work and allow the utility to determine exactly when charging happens.  In exchange, participants would get a better rate for charging.

Since wind and solar can't be ramped up and down at will like fossil fuel generation the grid will highly value loads that can be turned on and off as wind, solar inputs and non-controllable demand varies.  Controllable loads help reduce the need for storage and save costs.

silkman

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #736 on: May 30, 2018, 11:25:21 PM »
Can you control your EV's charging from your phone or computer?  If so, you're V1G ready.

No I can't. I have to flick a switch. However, it doesn't seem to be too challenging to put together a simple bit of kit that could be controlled remotely via an App. In the UK Hive does the same thing for central heating.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #737 on: May 31, 2018, 03:09:59 AM »
Tesla releases ‘Conflict Minerals Report’, increases minerals tracking and reduces cobalt use
https://electrek.co/2018/05/30/tesla-conflict-minerals-report-battery-cobalt/
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Bob Wallace

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #738 on: May 31, 2018, 07:26:11 AM »
Can you control your EV's charging from your phone or computer?  If so, you're V1G ready.


No I can't. I have to flick a switch. However, it doesn't seem to be too challenging to put together a simple bit of kit that could be controlled remotely via an App. In the UK Hive does the same thing for central heating.

I bet someone will start selling an aftermarket charge controller before long.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #739 on: June 05, 2018, 07:38:20 PM »
Tesla has now installed over 1 GWh of energy storage, ‘undeniably making an impact’ says CTO JB Straubel
Quote
The CTO reiterated that Tesla is currently working to ramp up Powerwall and Powerpack production to work through their backlog of orders and accelerate the deployment of energy storage capacity, which help solve a lot of energy issues:

“Even at 300%, we’ll need to grow it this way for decades, frankly, to really solve the problem. And not just us, but other companies need to get involved, too.”
https://electrek.co/2018/06/05/tesla-installed-over-1-gwh-energy-storage-cto-jb-straubel/
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Archimid

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #740 on: June 06, 2018, 01:02:15 AM »
At the shareholders meeting today, Elon indicated they intend to install another GWh this year.
I am an energy reservoir seemingly intent on lowering entropy for self preservation.

jacksmith4tx

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #741 on: June 06, 2018, 01:35:24 AM »
Can you control your EV's charging from your phone or computer?  If so, you're V1G ready.


No I can't. I have to flick a switch. However, it doesn't seem to be too challenging to put together a simple bit of kit that could be controlled remotely via an App. In the UK Hive does the same thing for central heating.

I bet someone will start selling an aftermarket charge controller before long.

I have a poor mans V2G. I installed a 110v 1500w pure sine wave inverter in my Gen 1 Volt and a transfer switch. I use a android app 'MyGreenVolt' to monitor the car.
But I must admit I am frustrated I see so little effort by the transportation sector to roll out a universal standard for V2G. Nissan has a system that only works with the Leaf. I think they sell them in Japan and Europe and they are pretty expensive.
https://cleantechnica.com/2018/03/23/vehicle-grid-cars/
You would think this would be critical if we ever hope to deploy millions of electric vehicles into the grid.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #742 on: June 06, 2018, 09:39:28 PM »
“Musk on battery price at the $TSLA shareholder meeting: can likely get below $100/kWh on the cell level by the end of the year. Can eventually get below $100/kWh at pack level”
https://twitter.com/skorusark/status/1004123713766412288

Also posting in the Cars thread.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #743 on: June 08, 2018, 03:42:20 AM »
“In less than a year from now, we will do another Gigawatt (project). The rate of stationary storage deployment is going to grow exponentially. For many years to come, each incremental year will be about as much as all the preceding years, which is a crazy, crazy growth rate,” Musk said during the Annual Shareholder Meeting.
Tesla Storage to grow exponentially; Tesla shorts on edge following $1.1 billion loss
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-shorts-1-billion-tsla-9-7-rally/

Tesla Gigafactory 1: new flyover shows new parking lot ahead of expansion
https://electrek.co/2018/06/07/tesla-gigafactory-1-flyover-expansion/
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Sleepy

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #744 on: June 08, 2018, 04:50:10 AM »
Northvolt gets go-ahead for Europe’s largest lithium-ion battery factory
https://www.metalbulletin.com/Article/3812339/Northvolt-gets-go-ahead-for-Europes-largest-lithium-ion-battery-factory.html
Quote
Battery cell maker Northvolt has received the environmental permit for what will be Europe’s largest lithium-ion battery cell factory, with the initial phase of construction to begin on Friday June 8.

Guess they better hurry, BYD is on the move to Europe.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-autos-batteries-europe-factbox/factbox-plans-for-electric-car-battery-production-in-europe-idUSKCN1J10N8
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oren

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #745 on: June 08, 2018, 08:04:31 AM »
“Musk on battery price at the $TSLA shareholder meeting: can likely get below $100/kWh on the cell level by the end of the year. Can eventually get below $100/kWh at pack level”
Good news. At this price level there will be many new applications for batteries, and/or faster penetration of existing but nascent applications. All applications that replace fossil-powered stuff will be able to reduce emissions at some point. (Such as EVs of course, electric motorcycles, power garden tools, some construction tools, even small mobile generators). Penetration will be faster where fuels costs are high, and where users can charge using their own solar panels.

Hyperion

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #746 on: June 08, 2018, 08:47:32 AM »
“Musk on battery price at the $TSLA shareholder meeting: can likely get below $100/kWh on the cell level by the end of the year. Can eventually get below $100/kWh at pack level”
Good news. At this price level there will be many new applications for batteries, and/or faster penetration of existing but nascent applications. All applications that replace fossil-powered stuff will be able to reduce emissions at some point. (Such as EVs of course, electric motorcycles, power garden tools, some construction tools, even small mobile generators). Penetration will be faster where fuels costs are high, and where users can charge using their own solar panels.
Pah! That's near retail for lead acid, which are far less easily damaged and for over 100 years had ten times the life span of lithium's. They've had there reputation damaged by sealed unmaintainable versions and calcium alloys that form barrier oxide layers if left flat for a few days in the last few decades. And as usual media campaigns promoting the in patent new stuff. Musk is a con man. A very successful one unfortunately. The patent system is the biggest destroyer of the environment in the economic world. We could be driving 3000+ km ranges with a sixty second recharge for twenty dollars and reduce the load and losses on electricity grids with aluminium air cells. Unfortunately they've been around 100 years too so only the military use them. If you want decent performance reliable stuff these days you've got to make your own. No big business is going to do it for you.
Policy: The diversion of NZ aluminum production to build giant space-mirrors to melt the icecaps and destroy the foolish greed-worshiping cities of man. Thereby returning man to the sea, which he should never have left in the first place.
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numerobis

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #747 on: June 08, 2018, 02:05:58 PM »
Near the same price and far better charge density and lifetime. Why would anyone use lead acid after than?

(Ok, for stationary backup power, lead-acid is better, but otherwise?)

Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #748 on: June 09, 2018, 01:31:50 AM »
Elon Musk tweeted:

“Gigafactory should be on 100% renewable energy (primarily solar with some wind) by next year. Rollout of solar already begun.”

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1005133546665566208
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Sciguy

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #749 on: June 20, 2018, 10:55:28 PM »
Hybrid buildings in California are using batteries to reduce the need for peaker plants:

https://www.enr.com/articles/44726-turning-buildings-into-power-plants

Quote
Adding a battery to supply backup power for a building is not a new idea, but the Tesla batteries that AMS and B&V installed for The Irvine Co. also provide demand response services in which the buildings can switch from grid power to battery power when electricity prices rise. The Irvine Co. estimates the batteries can reduce its energy expenses and operating costs by 10%.

What makes the batteries different—and designates the buildings as hybrid—is AMS’ grid integration and control software. AMS can control the batteries in all the buildings in concert, giving them the critical mass to appear on Southern California Edison’s system as a grid resource—the equivalent of a generating plant.

AMS’ software allows the batteries to charge when electricity is cheap in the middle of the day. Conversely, when demand spikes and SCE would normally turn on gas-fired peaking plants, it can send a signal that directs AMS to switch the buildings to battery power, reducing demand instead of adding supply.

The fleet of hybrid electric buildings can reduce peak demand by 25% and provide up to 10 MW of instantaneous load reduction for up to four hours to help SCE balance its grid without the emissions that would come from a peaking plant. Instead of paying for the batteries with cost savings, their function as a virtual power plant adds income.