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Author Topic: Arctic Image of the Day  (Read 443769 times)

crandles

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Re: Arctic Image of the Day
« Reply #1250 on: August 28, 2018, 04:55:36 PM »
Come on, Treform2 has made 2 posts on this forum. (Treform posted not at all if you think it might be old member lost password and created new membership.) What sort of welcome to the forum is this? (Even if it is a mistake, it looks like an easy one to make.) Treform2 didn't even say it was obliterated.

Welcome to the forum Treform2. What you have received is not the normal welcome new members get.

If it hasn't collapsed then this should be pointed out, but I think there may be a different approach for a new member than the manner of the posts made here. I find the attitude shown to a new member distinctly uncomfortable.

« Last Edit: August 28, 2018, 05:09:38 PM by crandles »

Niall Dollard

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Re: Arctic Image of the Day
« Reply #1251 on: August 28, 2018, 05:07:06 PM »
But still looks to me that it is in some sort of disintegrating shape.
1) That is not what you said in your post. Not even close. You said the ice shelf was "obliterated".


If you look back on previous posts, Treform did not use the term "obliterated".

Niall Dollard

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Re: Arctic Image of the Day
« Reply #1252 on: August 28, 2018, 05:40:28 PM »
Back to the Arctic again and there was a nice image of Kotelny Island on Worldview, one of the far New Siberian Islands in between the Laptev and ESS.

Usually shrouded in cloud or ice, today was almost clear. Image shows the flat low lying Bunge Land (sandy colour) linking up the two parts of the island. Bunge is over 6,200 km2 but does not rise much above 8m height and often covered by sea surges. 

Phil.

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Re: Arctic Image of the Day
« Reply #1253 on: August 29, 2018, 12:32:39 AM »
The hazards of research near the pole.


Shared Humanity

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Re: Arctic Image of the Day
« Reply #1254 on: August 29, 2018, 03:41:13 AM »
I find the attitude shown to a new member distinctly uncomfortable.

As do I.

deconstruct

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Re: Arctic Image of the Day
« Reply #1255 on: August 29, 2018, 10:51:18 AM »
If you look back on previous posts, Treform did not use the term "obliterated".
You are right. He said "collapsed" and jdallen used "obliterated", I am sorry for that. Doesn't change the point I wanted to made though.

I honestly didn't see that TreForm was new to the forum. For that my reaction was probably to harsh and I apologize to TreForm for that. But on the other side, it is still not OK to make such bold but unsupported claims, because people believe what they read here. SteveMDFP for example took the whole thing for real, as did appently jdallen, and both have made several hundreds of posts here, so are certainly not new to the topic.

So, if it is so easy to persuade people, that are familiar with the topic and saw propably thousands of satellite pictures frm the Arctic before, even if you can't see any sort of collapse in the posted picture, think about how such claims work on people who are not familiar with the topic. All I want to say is: Please be careful when making claims that you cannot support with a good conscience. Truth matters, even if it doesn't seem so on so many occasions nowadays.


oren

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Re: Arctic Image of the Day
« Reply #1256 on: August 29, 2018, 03:42:18 PM »
Deconstruct, you sound as if you never made a mistake or an error or a false claim while posting. If so, I envy you, but recommend to remember that normal people do make mistakes.

P.s I note that claiming Treform said "obliterated" is a false claim, perhaps fake news? Or just a plain mistake.

Andreas T

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Re: Arctic Image of the Day
« Reply #1257 on: August 29, 2018, 09:13:37 PM »
I find the reaction of a lot of people here bewildering.
I like to think this forum is about facts and science. If I make a statement about the xyz ice shelf I should make sure I know what the xyz iceshelf actually is. I certainly do such fact checking because I would hate to make such a mistake.
It did not take me long to find the information I posted above. Maintaining high standards on this forum is certainly worth the effort in my opinion. (of course there are people who think diferently )
JD  and treform have apologized and that is ok, I hope they take more care in the future. Being incentivized to make the extra effort to reduce the risk of making mistakes is a good thing, right? That is not a personal issue, and should not be about hurt feelings.
Can you really not tell the difference between that and mistake about who said what???

Shared Humanity

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Re: Arctic Image of the Day
« Reply #1258 on: August 29, 2018, 11:50:26 PM »
All I want to say is: Please be careful when making claims that you cannot support with a good conscience. Truth matters, even if it doesn't seem so on so many occasions nowadays.

If only this had been all you said instead of what you did say.

deconstruct

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Re: Arctic Image of the Day
« Reply #1259 on: August 30, 2018, 12:39:34 AM »
Deconstruct, you sound as if you never made a mistake or an error or a false claim while posting. If so, I envy you, but recommend to remember that normal people do make mistakes.

P.s I note that claiming Treform said "obliterated" is a false claim, perhaps fake news? Or just a plain mistake.
1)
I did acknowledge my error without any hesitation and apologized immediately. And If I make a false claim, I am happy to be corrected, because I want to believe as many true things as possible, and as little false things as possible. And anybody who helps me with that is welcome.

2)
Does it make any difference for the argument, if Treform said "obliterated" instead of "collapsed"? It does not. It is synonymous and interchangeable from the meaning and that is why I mixed up who used what of the two words. It both means that the ice shelf has vanished, gone poof, broke down, dissolved, [put-in-you-favorite-synonym-here]. That was an error of mine, but it doesn't change the meaning and my argument a single iota.

Does it make any difference, if I say that an ice shelf collapsed, when it did nothing of that sort, not even close, or if I dont make such a false claim? Yes it does.

If you can't see the difference in that two things, I can't help you.


If only this had been all you said instead of what you did say.
Based on the reactions of some people here, that rather defend a wrong statement or search for excuses, I am now to the contrary more convinced, that it was necessary to talk more extensively about that topic. Even if you don't like that.

magnamentis

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Re: Arctic Image of the Day
« Reply #1260 on: August 30, 2018, 01:28:10 AM »
Based on the reactions of some people here, that rather defend a wrong statement or search for excuses, I am now to the contrary more convinced, that it was necessary to talk more extensively about that topic. Even if you don't like that.

our biggest enemy is inside ourselves in the subconscious mind and it takes a lot of good will in the real meaning, a lot of experience and knowing ourselves very well and decent brain power in the meaning that the mind is ruling and not the animal inside us, to overcome that at least in parts, while probably no-one will ever succeed in full.

in other words, we can't really blame anyone, each as per his capabilities and priorities, but what we can do is what you did, name things, repeate things and always admit that we're all prone to this kind of flaw and fail permanently.

thing is that even the topic of this forum, AGW, it's roots and it's consequences is in big parts related to the above and the above is one main reason why mankind will probably not be able to
take appropriate steps very soon, at least not as long as those who share the same idea, the same goal etc. loose themselves in petty back and forth bickering and again not excluding myself, just trying to
fall less and less often into the same trap.

in short, +1

PS: reminds me of all the religious wars over thousands of years, especially those between christianity, muslims and jews who share the same god and agree on the same prophets but ultimately kill each other over the dispute which is the head-prophet and a few other politically motivated details. after all question the motives always. we all err while it's forgivable as long as our motives are just, ethically correct. as soon as its all about profiling neuroses and other ego based stuff we only can hint and ultimately opt-out (disconnect, not throwing pearls to the pigs)
« Last Edit: August 30, 2018, 01:52:41 AM by magnamentis »
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magnamentis

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Re: Arctic Image of the Day
« Reply #1261 on: August 30, 2018, 02:04:39 AM »
finally i thought that i have to post some nice images from the arctic to at least stay a bit on topic LOL
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oren

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Re: Arctic Image of the Day
« Reply #1262 on: August 30, 2018, 04:11:09 AM »
Just to clarify, I am happy you deconstructed the wrong claim of a collapsed ice shelf, I am unhappy with the high and mighty tone you used.

Shared Humanity

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Re: Arctic Image of the Day
« Reply #1263 on: August 30, 2018, 09:14:29 PM »
If only this had been all you said instead of what you did say.
Based on the reactions of some people here, that rather defend a wrong statement or search for excuses, I am now to the contrary more convinced, that it was necessary to talk more extensively about that topic. Even if you don't like that.

It was your tone and not your endless blather that I found offputting.

magnamentis

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Re: Arctic Image of the Day
« Reply #1264 on: August 30, 2018, 09:36:00 PM »
It was your tone and not your endless blather that I found offputting.

to complain about the length of an article/post is another one of those "modern" trends (TLTR)
while it usually means that someone is trying to explain how something is meant, or to use examples that are easier to understand etc.

In most cases it's a testimony of not being careless and not assuming that it's all clear and easy to understand. further it's often based on the experience that whatever we say, there will be someone who fires back with lame excuses or extreme views and such and the length of explanation tries to prevent as much of it as possible. to call a genuine effort blather is exactly the kind of tone which in one direction is obviously acceptable but not into the other. this is a typical hirarchic attitude.

normal people lie and get punished, those who punish them are mostly the greates liars

generally speaking those who punish and control the public do almost in any aspect, morally, ethically as well as criminally worse than those who they punish.

as to the tone, that's a legit thing to remind each other of moderating the tones because too many of us, but certainly the majority, from time to time gets carried away or is waiting too long to respond, until the fire under the roof got to hot already to hide it, but even that is based on
not trying to first shoot and then think or bicker over every detail.

i recommend to a few oh so nice and mature users here to read and understand more often the meaning of a post and the general direction a poster is  pushing and then trying to correct the
flawed part in a respectful manner.

if the tone is off which i can see that it hurts a few, then directly reply and mention that before trying to ridicule the content. this is typical system attitude. ridicule the source and you won't have to deal with the true core of the message.

there were times when people were more often exposed to torture and killings but the modern way to put question marks behind more or less direct accusations and get legally away with it but ultimately damage peoples reputation is not better, somehow even worse because the effects have to be dealt with much longer, at least before things were more final ;)
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Dharma Rupa

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Re: Arctic Image of the Day
« Reply #1265 on: August 30, 2018, 09:40:59 PM »


I rather think the conversation has become about an Arctic Image of Yesterday.

Jim Hunt

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Re: Arctic Image of the Day
« Reply #1266 on: August 30, 2018, 11:52:45 PM »
More Polar pics:
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein

Brigantine

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Re: Arctic Image of the Day
« Reply #1267 on: August 31, 2018, 12:35:56 AM »
Are those melt ponds? That haven't drained? (in OdenBalloon.jpg)

SteveMDFP

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Re: Arctic Image of the Day
« Reply #1268 on: August 31, 2018, 01:31:58 AM »
Are those melt ponds? That haven't drained? (in OdenBalloon.jpg)

And BearFlag.jpg looks like the polar bear is claiming the arctic for all local wildlife.  Good on our ursine friend.

Niall Dollard

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Re: Arctic Image of the Day
« Reply #1269 on: September 03, 2018, 06:11:57 PM »
Northern Ellesmere. Toggling between last two clear worldview images 20th Aug and 2nd Sept.

Phil.

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Re: Arctic Image of the Day
« Reply #1270 on: September 06, 2018, 12:51:35 AM »
The frenchmen (Sebastien Roubinet et al) making their way through the ice towards Banks Island encountered a family of bears on a nearby floe today.


Niall Dollard

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Re: Arctic Image of the Day
« Reply #1271 on: September 10, 2018, 11:07:49 PM »
Close up sentinel image (yesterday) of new sea ice near the top of the Nansen Sound (Ellesmere).

philiponfire

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Re: Arctic Image of the Day
« Reply #1272 on: September 11, 2018, 04:01:37 PM »
About a month ago a big chunk fell off the right hand corner of the Petermann. Roughly 1sq Km went missing. today I noticed that the rats have been gnawing at the left hand end over then last few days.

Phil.

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Re: Arctic Image of the Day
« Reply #1273 on: September 15, 2018, 03:29:23 PM »
Icesat-2 launched this morning, a video of the launch can be seen on NASA TV.
https://www.nasa.gov/nasalive

charles_oil

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Re: Arctic Image of the Day
« Reply #1274 on: September 21, 2018, 02:27:11 PM »
Amazing footage in this Reuters video of Helheim glacier: calving


https://widerimage.reuters.com/story/in-greenland-a-glaciers-collapse-shows-climate-impact


Wow !

Stephan

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Re: Arctic Image of the Day
« Reply #1275 on: September 21, 2018, 07:17:41 PM »
I remember to have seen this (or a comparable) Helheim calving video in the past some time ago. Is there any information whether this video is new material or from former melting seasons?

charles_oil

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Re: Arctic Image of the Day
« Reply #1276 on: September 21, 2018, 07:57:11 PM »
I too recall there was one before - but this had been "recently updated" and seems to be a Reuters 20 Sept publication.. but I agree its not easy to see the date of the event.


I came across it at:  https://gcaptain.com/harsh-climate-the-struggle-to-track-global-sea-level-rise/


Which describes the challenges of working (and recording) the changing Ice.

pikaia

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Re: Arctic Image of the Day
« Reply #1277 on: September 28, 2018, 11:35:52 PM »


From the 2018 Comedy Wildlife Photograph awards.

https://www.comedywildlifephoto.com/gallery/2018_finalists.php

slow wing

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Re: Arctic Image of the Day
« Reply #1278 on: September 29, 2018, 12:31:43 AM »
So that's a genuine photo?  ;D

Not sure I would trust that bear with that gear!  :P

SteveMDFP

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Re: Arctic Image of the Day
« Reply #1279 on: September 29, 2018, 01:26:11 AM »
Not sure I would trust that bear with that gear!  :P

I don't think I'd fight the bear for the camera, if it were mine.

pikaia

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Re: Arctic Image of the Day
« Reply #1280 on: October 01, 2018, 10:38:13 AM »
« Last Edit: October 01, 2018, 10:44:59 AM by pikaia »

Niall Dollard

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Re: Arctic Image of the Day
« Reply #1281 on: October 01, 2018, 10:48:06 PM »
Sentinel Colour Infrared Image of Barter Island off the north coast of Alaska on 30th September.

The NWS did mention that "sea ice will likely begin to form near freshwater river deltas and
behind barrier islands along the Beaufort Sea coast during the first week of October."

And indeed it has.

litesong

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Re: Arctic Image of the Day
« Reply #1282 on: October 02, 2018, 03:01:42 AM »

From the 2018 Comedy Wildlife Photograph awards.
BEAR says, "I can see all the way to russia"!!!

charles_oil

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Re: Arctic Image of the Day
« Reply #1283 on: October 13, 2018, 05:29:12 PM »

pikaia

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Re: Arctic Image of the Day
« Reply #1284 on: October 17, 2018, 09:54:35 AM »

uniquorn

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Re: Arctic Image of the Day
« Reply #1285 on: October 18, 2018, 10:42:31 PM »
Eddy north east of Severnaya Zemlya, polarview, oct17.