Forum Decorum

[kassy]

I must confess I do not understand what moderation is for . TB, HHI etc are under moderation yet have free run here while Kassy and Oren complain when they are allowed to post in the off-topic section . Hard not to predict TB's  return when he is welcome to post without moderation . b.c.

  ps .. Copied from COVID-19 thread as more likely to be deleted there than anything TB etc post ..

Well moderation is mostly about posts being on topic.

That running free is also just perception.

For HHI i am pretty sure the last 2 approved posts were just articles.

What you did not get see where the 5 or so posts i deleted where he argues viruses do not exist.

TB is also not running free but if you look at the thread no one really discusses the argument.
That is fine, free world and all that but i suggest also not discussing the poster if you are not discussing the post.

[gerontocrat]

TB is also not running free but if you look at the thread no one really discusses the argument.
That is fine, free world and all that but i suggest also not discussing the poster if you are not discussing the post.

What are the rules (if any) for the sender or the receiver on receiving an unsolicited PM sent to avoid the moderator?

[Jim Hunt]

What are the rules (if any) for the sender or the receiver on receiving an unsolicited PM sent to avoid the moderator?

What a coincidence. I have an inbox full of those too Gero!

Some of them are somewhat abusive

[vox_mundi]

Ditto!

[kassy]

There are no set rules for that. But of course you are free to forward examples of anything that is send to you with additional queries.

[oren]

You can block a user and thus avoid incoming messages as well, IIRC. But a poster who constantly abuses via PM should be reviewed by Neven for banning, so do forward examples of such repetitive behavior to the mods who will forward them further upon consensus.

[Jim Hunt]

Do forward examples of such repetitive behaviour to the mods who will forward them further upon consensus.

Which mod deals with PMs? Or is it the joint responsibility of all?

I have been subject to such "repetitive behaviour" on matters both Arctic and Covid for example.

[oren]

This hasn't been discussed, but maybe send PM-related complaints to the mods on the basis of their subject matter, Arctic to me and Covid to Kassy. Or alternatively just send to all three mods.

[gerontocrat]

Unlike Jim (and Vox?), I have just received the occasional irritation, and simply used the delete button.

But if it happens again....

[be cause]

Those sending abusive pm's should have their entitlement to abuse removed . It was my continued receipt of abusive pm's that so annoyed me when Freegrass was allowed and encouraged to continue posting while abusing Blumenkraft and myself daily and even hourly . I would recommend anyone being abused by pm to send copies to all mods to help ensure that action is taken .

 here is the latest light hearted present from another poster :

 ''i've informed Neven as to what you are. you're a good german, you'd fit right in with modern day israel. fascist. this site is infested with ignorant ideological nutjobs. at least kassy has some understanding, despite gaslighting me over meta-narrative he couldn't help but wink acknowledgement though it was from the other side of the fence. we understand each other but you're way too ignorant for that. petite bourgeoisie. enjoy attempting to delete reality into utopia.''
 
  ''just doing my job'' b.c.

[Jim Hunt]

Those sending abusive pm's should have their entitlement to abuse removed

Bad form to quote "private" messages in public b.c. 

Fuck off, clique hobbit, shit-for-brains.

[gerontocrat]

Like all facilities, PMS can be used for a good purpose or for abuse. I do get more than my fair share of PM's pointing out where I've screwed up. But then again, I screw up more than my fair share of times. So for those PM's I am more than grateful.

As regards Jim's quote from a PM above, I suppose one could regard such as in some way a compliment? But seriously, does the system allow a poster's ability to send PMs to be withdrawn?

[Jim Hunt]

But seriously, does the system allow a poster's ability to send PMs to be withdrawn?

One would rather hope so, because for all I know it's possible to troll the entire ASIF user base in such a fashion. Ad infinitum via infinite "sock puppets"?

[Tom_Mazanec]

Well, I know it is possible to ignore PMs from a specific poster, so you could try that. They could start a new puppet, but it is just a couple clicks to ignore them.

[gerontocrat]

Well, I know it is possible to ignore PMs from a specific poster, so you could try that. They could start a new puppet, but it is just a couple clicks to ignore them.

The object of the exercise is not how to avoid these plonkers but how to stop them. Loads of people leave facebook, twitter, instagram etc every day to avoid harassment, but that means the bastards have won.

[kassy]

On a practical note we cannot see PMs so if you get questionable ones report them.
TB has been told to stop sending PMs so let us know if he ignores that.

[Tom_Mazanec]

On a practical note we cannot see PMs so if you get questionable ones report them.
TB has been told to stop sending PMs so let us know if he ignores that.

So Poster A could write hoax PMs from Poster B and "report" them, and you would not be able to confirm?
Disturbing. I was a victim of such nonsense twenty years ago on another forum and I thought they would have arranged something to prevent such shenanigans.

[oren]

Eventually the judgement goes to Neven, who I am sure has the ability to verify any accusations.

[Niall Dollard]

Surely time to open a specific thread for the ongoing technical discussions of an oceanographic diagram posted in the Arctic Image of the Day thread ?

I thought the AIOTD thread was more for posting casual/interesting photos of the Arctic

[gerontocrat]

Surely time to open a specific thread for the ongoing technical discussions of an oceanographic diagram posted in the Arctic Image of the Day thread ?

I thought the AIOTD thread was more for posting casual/interesting photos of the Arctic

So did I.

Those recent postings belonged in the "Smart" and "Stupid" Questions - Feel Free To Askthread. I don't think they needed a thread all of their own.

[oren]

As it's become a long discussion thanks to insistent questioning, I have finally split the whole thing to a new thread in Arctic background.

[kassy]

Since the whole discussion revolves around one guy not liking a certain definition which has an actual technical (if not nice or likeable) meaning the whole thing is much better at home in stupid questions.

[oren]

Cross post from the Covid thread:

Well said Rodius.
Neven wants to discuss the big picture, this is the wrong thread for it, as has been said repeatedly. As the big picture discussion is not taken up by others, Neven is using snark and flippant language, I guess in the hope of generating some response.
In addition, Neven often spreads misinformation about Covid, gained from shady websites such as Swiss Policy Research, although this has become less so over time.

As a moderator, if Neven would be doing this in the Cryosphere section I am in charge of, he would have been edited and reprimanded. It's funny and sad because what I know of moderating I learned from Neven himself, whom I greatly respect in all other aspects except his Covid posting behavior and stance.

Free speech is fine but in a forum and specifically the ASIF there are still certain basic rules which need to be followed.

Putting Neven on ignore is a terrible solution as all other posts by Neven are very important, IMHO. Ignoring a poster in a specific thread could come in handy, not for the first time.

I will cross post to the Decorum thread, feel free to respond there as well.

[Tom_Mazanec]

The Gentleperson's Guide To Forum Spies
https://cryptome.org/2012/07/gent-forum-spies.htm

1. COINTELPRO Techniques for dilution, misdirection and control of a internet forum
2. Twenty-Five Rules of Disinformation
3. Eight Traits of the Disinformationalist
4. How to Spot a Spy (Cointelpro Agent)
5. Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

[nadir]

I’d say, be careful with what you call misinformation and whether you yourself are misinformed or not.

You sound like a repressed authoritarian, Oren.

[cognitivebias2]

I’d say, be careful with what you call misinformation and whether you yourself are misinformed or not.

You sound like a repressed authoritarian, Oren.

Oren sounds like he is speaking truth to (about?) power. 

[oren]

I do try to be careful when assessing what is misinformation and what is not. Eventually I must rely on my judgement, along with the contributions of fellow posters, via their posts, mod reports, and other communication methods.
I can't testify about my repressed state, but I will admit I do believe in the authority of science, and that there are indeed such things as right information and wrong information.

[nadir]

I do try to be careful when assessing what is misinformation and what is not. Eventually I must rely on my judgement, along with the contributions of fellow posters, via their posts, mod reports, and other communication methods.
I can't testify about my repressed state, but I will admit I do believe in the authority of science, and that there are indeed such things as right information and wrong information.

Science doesn’t need authoritarianism to be respected. Science is often silenced by authoritarianism though.

But philosophical thoughts apart...

I do believe you have your own (good faith) judgement, and that everything needs limits ( and that includes yourself ). That you keep the main and most important threads (Cryosphere) well moderated is great, but that you wish you could apply the same regime to the more controversial, political threads, which content is more subjective, less objective, sounds excessive. That’s all.

Also you probably can lecture me about science, but you can’t tell me what is a reliable source of information and what is not. BBC is propaganda. CNN is propaganda. NYT is propaganda. That’s my starting point.

[Tom_Mazanec]

BTW, this is the best run and well organized forum I know.




 approved ! b.c.

[vox_mundi]

... you can’t tell me what is a reliable source of information and what is not. BBC is propaganda. CNN is propaganda. NYT is propaganda. That’s my starting point.

... and Fox News, apparently for you, is gospel.

[HapHazard]

Propaganda is always what other people believe.

Other people's sources are not reliable.

Unreliable usernames dictating what's reliable via a worldwide web of interconnected manipulated anonymousness.

It's all rather hilarious these days.

[sidd]

For those interested in the origin of the chart in message # 1678 please see the white paper on Vanessa Otero's ( founder of ad fontes media inc) methodology:

https://www.adfontesmedia.com/white-paper-multi-analyst-ratings-project-august-2019/

Your mileage may vary.

sidd

[vox_mundi]

[nadir]

... you can’t tell me what is a reliable source of information and what is not. BBC is propaganda. CNN is propaganda. NYT is propaganda. That’s my starting point.

... and Fox News, apparently for you, is gospel.

You are very wrong, on the contrary. Fox News is the worst piece of crap, but it’s so obvious that I don’t even consider it anymore since .... forever. You can add it to my list. MSNBC is just the same. Read Taibbi’s book Hate Inc., recommended.

[Jim Hunt]

Your mileage may vary.

The Daily Fail is only slightly right of centre?

Shurely shome mishtake?

[nadir]

Your mileage may vary.

The Daily Fail is only slightly right of centre?

Shurely shome mishtake?

From my point of view, worse than the diagram is the interpretation that vox_mundi does of it, which is what many think of politics in American society. People are static dots somewhere in that arc. No nuance, no context. You are just a dot. Very “clintonian” if you ask me.

[kassy]

I am quite sure we have a media thread somewhere...

[gerontocrat]

Someone asked me once to be a moderator. I said no, very quickly.

Reasons..
- the moderator has to try to be reasonable. By now I would have told y'all to fuck off.

- we all have strong opinions about some things. But the moderator may feel constrained to not express those opinions as forcefully as desired. As I said, by now I would have told y'all to fuck off.
__________________________________________________________________________
ps:  a long time ago I was made to moderate a very long set of multinational negotiations about a very sensitive subject. I, in the end, got so hacked off that I handed over that role and gave them what for.

surprisingly, it worked.

[nadir]

I am quite sure we have a media thread somewhere...

We are dicussing misinformation and moderation. It’s clear a forum like this must keep the scientific discourse free of deniers and trolls. But I am not so sure you can apply a clear-cut moderation in the politics-related or other threads based on what the moderator thinks is “misinformation”. Science is rigorous (for the most part) and the sources are clear, but journalism nowadays??

Do you agree Kassy?

[oren]

We've had misinformation even in "The Rest" such as denial of germs. Regardless of thread location I think this forum should not contain obvious scientific misinformation. But in any case, the original discussion stemmed from the Covid thread, which is IMHO a mostly scientific thread and is not located among the political threads.
As for your definitions of propaganda, I am not really interested in such discussion, I am bored by media issues, but it is still quite easy to find what is correct and what is not, certainly in most subjects that involve science.

[nadir]

We've had misinformation even in "The Rest" such as denial of germs. Regardless of thread location I think this forum should not contain obvious scientific misinformation. But in any case, the original discussion stemmed from the Covid thread, which is IMHO a mostly scientific thread and is not located among the political threads.
As for your definitions of propaganda, I am not really interested in such discussion, I am bored by media issues, but it is still quite easy to find what is correct and what is not, certainly in most subjects that involve science.

When you respond like that, I feel ashamed like a child for my words.


I respect you Oren, you know it (or you suspect it). In any case, I believe the COVID-19 thread is beyond purely scientific thread, and censure should be limited to annoying trolls period. But let’s leave our disagreement at that. As we all acknowledge, the important threads here are well curated by you and Neven, and I commend you for that.

[be cause]

I feel it would be 'forum decorum' for nadir to reveal his previous incarnation(s) on ASIF

[nadir]

I feel it would be 'forum decorum' for nadir to reveal his previous incarnation on ASIF

You are always the same (unfunny and irrelevant)

[nadir]

Apologies, I meant “your comments”, be cause, as a person I am sure you’re wonderful

[be cause]

you certainly haven't changed more than your name .. come on , be a man and tell us who you were ...

[nadir]

you certainly haven't changed more than your name .. come on , be a man and tell us who you were ...

What always bothered me from you is that you are like the antibody of the forum, not much content in your comments, but very abrasive and repellent stuff, reacting to a user extraneous to you or to any of your good fellas here, sort of a tribal antibody, with your one-liners.

You immediately create a negative atmosphere and look for escalation, that is all. If you call that forum decorum... LOL I understand how quickly bad atmosphere is built up in this (pretty unfriendly by now) forum and why so many people leave. With a "moderator" like you... that only looks to itch and escalate... (are you still moderator? ? ? )

My premise is that, should there be moderation, it should be applied to people like you. Just to improve the environment here, which can be pretty hostile.

[be cause]

all I asked was a reasonable question .. who were you in your last incarnation on this forum ?  Escalation is unnecessary as a simple one word answer (the truth) , will suffice . b.c.

[Tom_Mazanec]

all I asked was a reasonable question .. who were you in your last incarnation on this forum ?  Escalation is unnecessary as a simple one word answer (the truth) , will suffice . b.c.

How do you know he had a previous incarnation on the forum, be cause? Why can't s/he be someone like other earlier posters?

[be cause]

because he recently wrote :

               ''I was pro mask very early, and defended their use here when the “Masks” thread still did not exist. And hysterical responses by Blumenkraft and others against the few of us in favor of using masks expelled us.''

  .. an unusual comment for a 'new' member to make  . b.c.

 ps I was totally opposed to bl's take on masks .. but I managed to survive his 'hysterical responses' and chose not to expel myself .

[be cause]

I suppose I could just say 'welcome back gandul'