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Who are you going to vote for?

Clinton
31 (70.5%)
Johnson
2 (4.5%)
Stein
6 (13.6%)
Trump
1 (2.3%)
Not going to vote / going to spoil ballot
4 (9.1%)

Total Members Voted: 44

Voting closed: November 26, 2016, 07:11:49 AM

Author Topic: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")  (Read 216402 times)

budmantis

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2600 on: July 29, 2017, 06:31:43 AM »
According to their new press secretary they only hire the BEST and the BRIGHTEST, but only for a limited time.

BudM

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2601 on: July 30, 2017, 01:30:20 AM »
When I said little Tony Scaramucci was a piece of work.....I guess that was an understatement.

His soon-to-be ex wife just gave birth to their third child.  FOUR DAYS after giving birth...little Tony STILL hadn't seen his new child.  FOUR DAYS.

Yea....Donnie Boy has put together quite the troup....
FOX (TASS) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

Buddy

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2602 on: July 30, 2017, 02:58:27 PM »
I'll be looking for Mattis to make a move.....likely by the end of the year.  And what I mean by " a move" is this:  He's going to become in increasingly outspoken.  He can see that Donnie is unhinged....and he is not going to allow him to continue without challenging/questioning him.  This will surely happen in private first......like in cabinet meetings.  But expect this to ramp up as Donnie makes more ill advised decisions.

Eventually Donnie is either going to be forced with Mattis openly questioning Donnie....or Donnie will have to fire him.  In which case.....Mattis would continue to question Trump....and point out the obvious:  That Donnie is NOT fit to be in office.

There is a lot that is going to happen over the coming weeks and months related to RussiaGate....so the timing of what Mattis does and when....will certainly be impacted by that news.  But Mattis is now the "front and center" figure in Donnie's cabinet...and he is going to become more outspoken over time.   This is where I think Kelly/Donnie will clash with Mattis.  If Mattis were to leave Trumps cabinet either by quiting or by being fired....Donnie would be in "bigley" trouble...especially with some of the Republicans.
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gerontocrat

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2603 on: July 30, 2017, 03:54:43 PM »
While the world remains transfixed by Russiagate, Obamacare, internal White House wars etc....,
the world is not noticing what is being done by the Trump Administration.
One should remember that Trump has the power to make this really bad stuff happen

Let us start with Ryan Zinke :-
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/25/us/politics/interior-secretary-zinke-staff-conservation-regulations.html?_r=0
"Ryan Zinke, a former member of the Navy SEALs and lifelong Montana outdoorsman who now heads the Interior Department, loves to compare himself to Theodore Roosevelt, the father of American conservation."
- and is proceeding to undo a century of conservation.

and now:-
Rick Perry:-
http://www.chron.com/business/article/Perry-visits-Daikin-plant-and-lets-loose-on-11655708.php
"U.S. Energy Secretary Rick Perry repeated the assertion Friday that scientists have not conclusively determined the extent to which human activity is driving global climate change. He also emphasized the need to continue developing fossil fuels in addition to renewable energy sources."

Don't forget Pruitt:-
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/features/scott-pruitt-is-gutting-the-epa-serving-fossil-fuel-industry-w494156
"Scott Pruitt, the administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency, wants you to know that he was responsible for persuading President Trump to pull out of the Paris climate agreement. Pruitt has never said that explicitly, of course – he understands that if he wants to keep his job, he needs to pretend that the decision was Trump's alone. But Pruitt did everything he could to telegraph to the world that he thought Paris was a bad deal for America, and urged Big Coal executives to make their views known to the president as well. "

SCIENCE ?
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/science-division-of-white-house-office-now-empty-as-last-staffers-depart/
http://www.ucsusa.org/press/2017/president-trump-illegally-nominates-non-scientist-lead-science-usda#.WX3knhXyvIU
"Statement by Ricardo Salvador, Union of Concerned Scientists (UCS)
WASHINGTON (July 20, 2017)—Today President Trump nominated Sam Clovis, a conservative talk radio host and former Trump campaign adviser, for the role of chief scientist at the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA). With no background in science, Clovis—who is also a vocal climate denier—is an unacceptable and illegal choice for this important role that affects farmers, rural communities, and the health and nutrition of all Americans."
"Para a Causa do Povo a Luta Continua!"

SteveMDFP

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2604 on: July 30, 2017, 05:24:46 PM »
I certainly agree that all these items are utterly damnable.
I take comfort that none of these developments have a basis in new legislation.  It's all by executive orders and administrative decisions.
Thus, a change in leadership can quickly undo most or all of these abominations.

Looking back, Obama took some heat from the Left for not doing more by executive order.  If one paid close attention, he made clear that he wanted change by legislation, and saw that taking action by executive order would take much of the impetus away from getting progressive legislation passed.  This was wise, as executive orders can simply be re-written by a successor.

I'm frankly skeptical that any amount of popular outrage will undo any of the examples here, at least until part of Congress "flips." We saw the intransigence with Trumps first immigration ban.  Massive protests at many, many airports didn't sway Trump or any of the right-wingers one iota.  Strategic lawsuits may be more effective until leadership changes.

AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2605 on: July 30, 2017, 07:03:05 PM »
If it weren't for the fact that Obama established conditions for a strong US economy, that Trump is claiming credit for, Trump's poll rating would likely be much lower than they has currently slipped down to, as reflected by the linked CBS poll:

Title: "Nation Tracker poll: Most say Trump creating “conflict and drama” and “chaos” as core backers applaud the fight"

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/poll-most-say-trump-creating-conflict/

“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2606 on: July 31, 2017, 07:26:27 PM »
Once Trump gets to be a wartime president (by starting a hot war with Iran), it will be harder to remove him from office, so hopefully Pence can get eight cabinet members (Tillerson, Mattis, Sessions, etc) to invoke the 25th Amendment.

This October, Trump Will Try to Start a War with Iran

http://www.alternet.org/right-wing/vijay-prashad-trump-setting-dangerous-confrontation-iran

Extract: "Something extraordinary has happened in Washington. President Donald Trump has made it clear, in no uncertain terms and with no effort to disguise his duplicity, that he will claim that Tehran is cheating on the nuclear deal by October—the facts be damned. In short, the fix is in. Trump will refuse to accept that Iran is in compliance and thereby set the stage for a military confrontation. His advisors have even been kind enough to explain how they will go about this. Rarely has a sinister plan to destroy an arms control agreement and pave the way for war been so openly telegraphed.

The unmasking of Trump’s plans to sabotage the nuclear deal began two weeks ago when he reluctantly had to certify that Iran indeed was in compliance. Both the US intelligence as well as the International Atomic Energy Agency had confirmed Tehran’s fair play. But Trump threw a tantrum in the Oval Office and berated his national security team for not having found a way to claim Iran was cheating. According to Foreign Policy, the adults in the room—Secretary of State Rex Tillerson, Secretary of Defense Jim Mattis, and National Security Advisor H. R. McMaster—eventually calmed Trump down but only on the condition that they double down on finding a way for the president to blow up the deal by October."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2607 on: July 31, 2017, 08:23:30 PM »
While Trump is currently bragging about how high the stock market is; he, and the GOP, may soon find-out that a correction closer to the mid-term election may cost the GOP several seats in Congress.

Title: "Why the Red-Hot Stock Market Could be Close to a Cooldown"

http://www.nbcnews.com/business/markets/why-red-hot-stock-market-could-be-close-cooldown-n788216

Extract: "Economists and Wall Street experts increasingly agree that the high-flying stock market is primed to descend, if not to earth, at least out of the stratosphere.

“There are many indicators showing that equities have reached a higher valuation than is consistent with changes in either underlying economic growth or revenue fundamentals,” Aaron Klein, a fellow at the Brookings Institution, told NBC News."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

Buddy

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2608 on: July 31, 2017, 09:25:31 PM »
Well.... Little Mooch didn't last long did he?  Quite the smooth running operation Donnie has going huh?

Donnie Big Mooch will take more time....and lower poll numbers.  Nixon took another 12 months and change from now.  Who's next to get the axe in Donnie's horror show?
FOX (TASS) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

Buddy

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2609 on: August 01, 2017, 03:23:01 PM »
If the Democrat's don't DEMAND that Donnie shows 10 years of FULL tax returns BEFORE they talk about tax reform......they are dumber than I think they are.  And I already think the Dem's are pretty dumb. :o
FOX (TASS) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2610 on: August 01, 2017, 08:04:17 PM »
The GOP establishment may be prepared to marginalize Trump, if Robert Reich's source is to be believed:

Title: "Robert Reich: Republicans think Donald Trump is “out of his gourd”"

http://www.salon.com/2017/08/01/robert-reich-republicans-think-donald-trump-is-out-of-his-gourd/

Extract: "According to a former GOP congressman, Republicans are planning to bail on the president in favor of Mike Pence

The Republican also said that his co-partisans are worried that Trump will hurt their reelection chances in 2018 and 2020 and “want him outa there,” although he doubts they’ll impeach him without special counsel Robert Mueller coming up with a “smoking gun” (he also doubts that Trump will fire Mueller).

So what does he think the plan is?

“Put someone else up in ’20,” Reich’s friend said. “Lots of maneuvering already. Pence, obviously. Cruz thinks he has a shot.”

Reich’s friend also claims that Republicans believe Trump has become mentally unstable. He attributed Trump’s firing of former White House chief of staff Reince Priebus and undermining of both Sessions and Tillerson to an alleged belief that they are plotting to cite the 25th Amendment, which allows a president’s cabinet to remove him from power if he’s mentally incompetent, in order to remove Trump from power."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
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AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2611 on: August 01, 2017, 08:18:15 PM »
Maybe Carson should work with Pence, Tillerson, Mattis, Sessions, Chao (McConnell's wife), Elaine Duke (Kelly's acting replacement in Homeland Security), Perdue (Agriculture) and Ross (Commerce) to invoke the 25th Amendment in order to get Trump before he guts his Cabinet.

Title: "Conservatives target Ben Carson: Why is the HUD secretary, once a right-wing darling, under attack?"

http://www.salon.com/2017/08/01/conservatives-target-ben-carson-why-is-the-hud-secretary-once-a-right-wing-darling-under-attack/

Extract: "Is there a traitor in the Trump administration? Yes, say some hard-right conservatives — and it's Ben Carson"
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2612 on: August 01, 2017, 09:06:58 PM »
Public GOP criticism of Team Trump is intensifying:

Title: "Flake Takes on Trump, Warns GOP Is ‘in Spasms of Dying’"

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/jeff-flake-torches-trump-presidency-says-gop-spasms-dying-n788456

Extract: "Arizona Sen. Jeff Flake lambasted President Donald Trump and other members of his party in a new book released Tuesday, offering the most in-depth, significant critique of Trump's presidency by a national Republican so far.

He was particularly critical of fellow conservatives who he says have failed to speak out against an "erratic" White House.

“That unnerving silence in the face of an erratic executive branch is an abdication, and those in positions of leadership bear particular responsibility,” Flake said in the book, "Conscience of a Conservative."

Just over six months into Trump's administration, Flake prognosticates that his party is engaged in the “spasms of a dying party.”
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2613 on: August 02, 2017, 01:03:20 AM »
Here are more reasons to be concerned about Trumps handling of the nuclear deal with Iran:

Title: "Tillerson says he and Trump disagree over Iran nuclear deal"

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-tillerson-iran-idUSKBN1AH5E7

Extract: "Trump has preserved the deal for now, although he has made clear he did so reluctantly after being advised to do so by Tillerson.

"He and I have differences of views on things like JCPOA, and how we should use it," Tillerson said at a State Department briefing, using the acronym for the deal, formally called the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action (JCPOA).

New U.S. sanctions on Iran in July were a breach of the nuclear deal and Tehran had lodged a complaint with the body that oversees the pact's implementation, a senior Iranian politician said."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
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Sigmetnow

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2614 on: August 03, 2017, 06:00:21 PM »
Congress and the Administration are reaching the conclusion that Trump has lost his mind.

Trump keeps describing phone calls that apparently never happened
Update: At today’s White House press briefing, Press Secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders seemed to concede that the calls Trump described didn’t occur....

www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/trump-keeps-describing-phone-calls-apparently-never-happened


As the lies and contradictions mount, federal officials are deciding to simply ignore Trump
Evidence arrives every day of the government treating the man elected to lead it as someone talking mostly to himself.
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/02/as-lies-contradictions-mount-federal-officials-deciding-to-ignore-trump.html


Former Secretary of Labor Robert Reich spoke to a former Republican congressman.
Me: Seriously, what are you hearing from your former colleagues on the Hill?
Him: They’re convinced Trump is out of his gourd.
...
Him: Going totally bananas. Paranoia. You want to know why he fired Priebus, wants Sessions out, and is now gunning for Tillerson?
Me: He wants to shake things up?
Him (chuckling): No. The way I hear it, he thinks they’ve been plotting against him.
Me: What do you mean?
Him: Twenty-fifth amendment! Read it! A Cabinet can get rid of a president who’s nuts. Trump thinks they’ve been preparing a palace coup. So one by one, he’s firing them.
Me: I find it hard to believe they’re plotting against him.
Him: Of course not! It’s ludicrous. Sessions is a loyal lapdog. Tillerson doesn't know where the bathroom is. That’s my point. Trump is fritzing out. Having manic delusions. He’s actually going nuts.
...
Me: And?
Him: Well, it’s downright dangerous.
Me: Yeah, but that still doesn’t tell me what Republicans are planning to do about it.
Him: Look. How long do you think it will be before everyone in Washington knows he’s flipping out? I don’t mean just weird. I mean really off his rocker.
Me: I don’t know.
Him: No all that long.
Me: So what are you telling me?
Him: They don’t have to plot against him. It will be obvious to everyone that he’s got to go. That’s where the twenty-fifth amendment really does comes in....
https://www.facebook.com/RBReich/posts/1655037197842203
« Last Edit: August 03, 2017, 06:06:45 PM by Sigmetnow »
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2615 on: August 03, 2017, 06:48:49 PM »
The linked article illustrates how Team Trump has little respect for the separation of powers in the government:

Title: "Trump’s DHS Ordered Agents to Block Congressmen During Travel Ban"

http://www.thedailybeast.com/border-patrol-ordered-to-block-congressmen-during-travel-ban

Extract: "In the first hours of the travel ban, Trump administration officials stiff-armed Congress, treated lawyer calls like ‘protests,’ and shared photos among themselves of protesters."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

Buddy

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2616 on: August 03, 2017, 08:58:43 PM »
On the quarterly earnings call for Tesla, Elon Musk...the CEO....said the following:

"I want to thank my executive team for preventing me from being a fool."

Elon was talking about the decision to use the same basic "platform" for their future SUV that is just now in its planning stages.  Musk wanted to use an entirely new platform....which would have created a LOT more work and complexity to launching a new vehicle.

And this shows the HUGE difference between a good decision maker like Musk.....and a bad decision maker like Trump.

Musk did the following in his statement:

1.  He PUBLICLY gave his executive team CREDIT for talking him out of what would have been a bad decision.

2.  By doing so.....he has assured that they will try and talk him out of any FUTURE bad decisions Elon might want to make.

3.  HE LISTENED to his team.  THAT was part of the teams decision making process.....involving the team.

Good leaders have a good decision making process.  And they tend to give the credit to the team....NOT be a glory hog.

Donnie never has been a good leader....and he is not CAPABLE of being a good leader.  And that is why I believe he will continue to implode.

FOX (TASS) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

LRC1962

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2617 on: August 03, 2017, 11:40:34 PM »
We in the world tend to be fixated by Trump. After six months of him I have come to the conclusion that from the global stand point it is in a far better position then I feared, but I am terribly sorry for where that has placed the US people.
In the beginning I feared a ripple copycat effect on other elections. The opposite effect seems to be happening more as voters in other nations seem for the most part to be going more moderate and punishing the extremist.
I feared the rest of the world leaders would either cater to Trump and let him lead or do something to antagonize him and cause blow back. I see that for the most part they have decided that the best way is to show him baubles and then quietly shove him aside and ignore him as much as possible.
I feared that environmentally from a global point he would be an environmental disaster. His leaving the Paris Accord has for the most part had the opposite effect from my understanding in that more of the globe has taken it as a challenge to actually make it work rather then be a nice get together to claim they tried.
I feared his isolationist moves would cause other countries to follow and end up locking up the global economy. In fact it seems that leaders have decided more needs to be done as far as trade agreements are concerned just doing it without the US at the table and they seem to be fine with that. Canada is also finding that working with each state individually without the WH involvement is also possible and you could see more countries following that path.
Trump can still do much damage globally, but I feel that world leaders see Trump for who and what he really is and work around an problems he represents. Voters around the world also see him in a similar way and are doing what they can to make sure their politicians are not the same type.
As for the GOP they have backed themselves into a very bad position. For the representatives in places where Trump supporters really matter they feel the need to still back him. For the places where he is weak and getting weaker they are seeing the pressure to challenge him otherwise they could lose in the next elections. As for the core Trump supporters their message is simple, we really do not care for policy matters that much we just want the way things are always done to be gone. In Trump they see someone who everyday is sticking his fingers into some elites eye and they love it policy? who cares. This is where the GOP has a problem. It has move from a party that was being run by Tea Party agenda to now being run by core voters whose main aim is stick it to and down the elite establishment (which includes all with more the a bachelors degree).
The is another big set of problems. You have an armed forces whose CiC has no interest in understanding what they do and are responsible for and can not stop from talking about what he is told. They still have the wars going on in Afghanistan and Iraq. Syria is a problem that could spread and get far worse. North Korea is problem that could get out of hand because it is taking advantage of Trump's inattention to facts. You have Russia and China exerting more influence in more countries and a Man who does not understand that GW is real and has real consequences to the military. All the very same things can be said about foreign intelligence.
Domestically you have a "law and order" president that refuses to understand that law applies to him and the WH as well. You have a nation wide infrastructure that is crumbling, deregulating/unsupervised industries whose infrastructure is also crumbling and environmental disasters just waiting to happen or have happened and nothing being done about it, a judicial system opening being mocked, uncontrolled law enforcement (very small segment) that is bringing disrepute to the whole and president that seems to thick that is great policing a president that is not filling vacancies that need to be filled and on she goes. This is resulting a bureaucracy that is therefore doing more and more with no oversight that can either end up good or very very bad.
In the end that is forcing each state to do more and more on its own without Washington guidance. This is never good because you end up with a very uneven playing field. The end result will be a world that continues as it has but without the US involvement, and a US whose powers at the WH will be greatly diminished and federal level powers also greatly diminished because it will still be locked up beyond Jan 2021, which means over 10 years of getting nothing much done.
A very interesting read that will either make you laugh or cry depending on how it hits you at the time. This shows Trump on twitter really is Trump in life. http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/08/australias-pm-slowly-realizes-trump-is-a-complete-idiot.html The title I think really is very disparaging of Australian Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull. World leaders were learning and figuring out how to deal with Trump well before Trump officially won the GOP leadership. Trump was a very well known commodity even in the '70's and the rest of the world was banking on the fact he would not change. The only issue would be how much room would Trump give the world to do its own thing. The answer is very much in. Show him baubles, some papers to sign that really mean nothing and he is very happy and will leave you to do whatever you want because he does not care except that he saw the baubles and signed some papers.
"All truth passes through three stages: First, it is ridiculed; Second,  it is violently opposed; and Third, it is accepted as self-evident."
       - Arthur Schopenhauer

AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2618 on: August 04, 2017, 07:47:16 PM »
The linked article cites one very good reason for invoking the 25th Amendment:

Title: "Why the Scariest Nuclear Threat May Be Coming from Inside the White House"

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/07/department-of-energy-risks-michael-lewis

Extract: "Donald Trump’s secretary of energy, Rick Perry, once campaigned to abolish the $30 billion agency that he now runs, which oversees everything from our nuclear arsenal to the electrical grid. The department’s budget is now on the chopping block. But does anyone in the White House really understand what the Department of Energy actually does? And what a horrible risk it would be to ignore its extraordinary, life-or-death responsibilities?"
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2619 on: August 04, 2017, 11:09:35 PM »
Many people that I talk to seem to be confused by why so many evangelicals support Trump, so I thought that I would provide a link to the following AlterNet article on this topic:

Title: "The Real Reason Evangelicals Are So Worshipful of Donald Trump"

http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/real-reason-evangelicals-are-so-worshipful-donald-trump
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

TerryM

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2620 on: August 04, 2017, 11:52:47 PM »
LRC1962
If I understand your position correctly you feel that Trump's greatest asset is that he's hugely incompetent. I tend to agree.


There is no rush to elect more Trumps around the world because others are witnessing Trump's idiocies.
There is no domestic surge of pro-Trump state governments or pro-Trump mayors, simply because of Trump's inadequacies.


As long as the bureaucrats and military leaders can be trusted to do the right thing we may end up with 4 years of benign mismanage. While incompetency is definitely preferred to malignancy, I fear that after 4 years of campaigning against Trump, the Democrats will find themselves very vulnerable to Republicans who turn on Trump during the primaries, claim that they too despise the man, and that it's now time to get the adults back into the drivers seats.


We may find that we rid ourselves of the incompetent only to empower the malevolent.


Constantly maneuvering to oust Trump prior to 2020 isn't winning the DNC many friends, with the exception of a few particularly despicable Republicans who are looking a few years ahead. If Pence has the power of the Incumbency in 2020, he'll be unbeatable. If Democrats can't flip a large number of state governments in 2018, and the gerrymandering privileges that those wins confer, they have no chance of winning in 2020. - Didn't I just hear of a Democratic Governor who is at least threatening to change parties?


Hillary ran on the "I'm better than Trump" banner. She lost. Every federal election since then has been run under the same banner, every election since then has been won by the Red Team.


We've discovered that an incompetent boob isn't capable of screwing things up as badly as we feared. Will we escape so easily when a competent, compromised, Christian, Conservative takes his place?


Terry

LRC1962

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2621 on: August 06, 2017, 01:42:57 AM »
LRC1962
If I understand your position correctly you feel that Trump's greatest asset is that he's hugely incompetent. I tend to agree.
Terry

I depends upon how you define incompetent. He lives in his own world with his own objects. All he does is to fulfill those objects. Everything else is irrelevant to him and therefore does not matter and to be forgotten. The problem for us is what his objectives are. To my mind it is wrapped around one idea. Trump and making Trump the most important and talked about person in the world. It has no political thought behind it. In this he has done it in spades. He has captured in his mind the most important position in the world and he is the most talked about individual in the world today. All his speeches and twitters are all about ensuring that. All he needs to to do is do something that places in the top historically. That is why he wants to sign stuff.
The problem for him is the rest of the world truly is getting to understand that and find out that there are ways to make things work without the involvement of that position. Not only that, his fixating on getting rid of what has been done in the past, such as Paris Accord, Treaties, Health Care has focused attention on them. Not so much as what is wrong but what is right and therefore worth saving.
It is my position then that Trumps legacy will not be Trump, but what was good that came before Trump and therefore make him an unimportant footnote.
"All truth passes through three stages: First, it is ridiculed; Second,  it is violently opposed; and Third, it is accepted as self-evident."
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AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2622 on: August 06, 2017, 05:42:42 PM »
The linked article indicates that Trump is working the politicize US intelligence in order to support his pre-mediated plan to confront Iran and the nuclear deal:

Title: "Trump ‘politicizing intelligence’ to quit Iran nuclear deal: Ex-CIA official"

http://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2017/08/05/530761/Trump-politicizing-intelligence-Iran-deal

Extract: "US President Donald Trump’s reported demand from US intelligence agencies to support his policy preference to withdraw from the Iran nuclear agreement risks “politicizing intelligence,” according to the former deputy director of the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA).

When the president demands that intelligence fit his political desires, it has potentially grave consequences for national security and undermines foreign policy decisions, said David S. Cohen, who was also assistant secretary of the Treasury Department for terrorism and financial intelligence during the administration of President Barack Obama."
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TerryM

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2623 on: August 06, 2017, 07:55:57 PM »
ASLR


While I certainly agree that "politicizing intelligence" has "potentially grave consequences", I can't recall an administration that didn't direct the CIA or whatever agencies were available to do just that.
From Powell's UN discussions of flasks, aluminum tubes and vials, to remembering the Maine's demise. From the "missile gap" to the sinking of the Lusitania, there has been a constant stream of misinformation and disinformation that Republican and Democratic presidents have used to sway voters, lawmakers, and to soften or harden world opinion.


Why attack Trump for acting in the same manner that every past president has?
Trump won't be remembered as the "President who subverted the CIA".
Throwing mud does nothing to clarify the arguments against Trump, it simply allows real indiscretions to escape detection.


Terry


AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2624 on: August 06, 2017, 08:29:04 PM »
Team Trump's efforts towards voter suppression are already bearing fruit:

Title: “Trump Administration Stirs Alarm Over Voter Purges ”

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-administration-stirs-alarm-over-voter-purges/ar-AApwdeb?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartandhp

Extract: “But voting rights advocates have expressed increased anxiety over how some states, like Ohio, have aggressively pruned their voter rolls in the name of preventing widespread, yet still unproven, voter fraud. Those advocates say voter purges require a surgeon's scalpel and argue that aggressive purges suppress mostly minority and Democratic votes.

Thanks to President Donald Trump's voter fraud commission and a Justice Department memo signaling his administration's desire to take action on voter roll maintenance, they fear even more eligible voters will be at risk.”
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AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2625 on: August 06, 2017, 08:34:33 PM »
Why attack Trump for acting in the same manner that every past president has?

Trump won't be remembered as the "President who subverted the CIA".

Throwing mud does nothing to clarify the arguments against Trump, it simply allows real indiscretions to escape detection.

Obviously, we are of different opinions on this matter.  Only time will tell, but if Trump starts a hot war with Iran, then this would be a very 'real indiscretion'.
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
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AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2626 on: August 06, 2017, 08:51:52 PM »
What better way for Trump to get re-elected but through a combination of voter suppression and by first becoming a wartime president:

Title: “Conway: Trump 'plans on being a two term president'”

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/conway-trump-plans-on-being-a-two-term-president/ar-AApwVcH?li=AA5a8k&ocid=spartandhp

Extract: “White House counselor Kellyanne Conway said Sunday that President Trump plans to run for a second term, dismissing a recent report that suggested uncertainty about his running in 2020.

"The president says privately and publicly, often, George that he'll be president for seven and a half more years, so he plans on being a two term president," Conway told host George Stephanopoulos on ABC's "This Week."”
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TerryM

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2627 on: August 06, 2017, 10:33:00 PM »
Whenever Trump flexes his military might the media genuflects.
Whenever he smiles in Putin's direction he's scolded.


This is what I've been complaining about since this thread started. We're not too subtly rewarding aggressive behavior while discouraging him whenever he tries to play nice with others.


Going to war with Iran, and Russia, and China, isn't the beginning of anything good. It's the end of everything.


Remember the praise heaped on him when he fired off the tomahawks, when he dropped the biggest conventional bomb ever built?
Remember some on this thread commenting that it was about time?
Remember Hillary comparing Putin to Hitler?
Remember Hillary chortling over Qaddafi's being sodomized with a bayonet?


We came, we saw, he died
Ha- Ha- Ha


Thank god she'll never have her finger near the button.
Terry

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2628 on: August 06, 2017, 11:32:40 PM »
Thank god she'll never have her finger near the button.
Terry
Blaming Hillary for Trump.
Than g@d I'm not a pychiatrist. But I'm a memeto pathologist. Decades of Bannonade with this "evil Hillary" meme have come to fruition in 2016. And now, excuses and rationalizing...

It's getting seriously comical.

The right wingnut half of U.S. polit-think has eaten a major chunk of the Left's brain.
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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2629 on: August 07, 2017, 06:34:47 PM »
Yeah, I've had to stop taking with any degree of seriousness anyone who tries to claim that Trump is the lesser of two evils, the other half being Clinton. Even a brief glance at any objective news sources--as opposed to pro-Trump, pro-Russia, Bernie-or-bust propaganda sites--shows that HRC is an intelligent, experienced, passionate public servant with the temperament, commitment, and qualifications to lead and lead well, as opposed to the cowardly, lazy, authoritarian-loving buffoon who spends countless early morning and middle-of-the-night hours broadcasting a steady stream of petulant, insecure, incoherent messages instead of trying to do a job he is ill-equipped for and seemingly not all that interested in. And I can't help but wonder whether those constantly repeating the whistling-past-the-graveyard claim that "at least Trump won't start a nuclear war" as a way to justify their anti-HRC stance will be surprised when they awake one morning to find that, whether as a distraction from his other troubles or in just a simple fit of pique, Trump has kicked off WWIII.

I imagine they will be, small and insignificant consolation though that will be.

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2630 on: August 07, 2017, 06:59:41 PM »
There was a segment on 60 Minutes last night about the grade school mass shooting in Newtown, Connecticut in 2012.  This was called "fake" by alt right nut case Alex Jones.  There were 20 first graders killed in that onslaught.....something those kids parents will NEVER be able to get over.

And yet.....Donnie was a big supporter of Alex Jones during the campaign, going as far as being interviewed by Alex Jones on his show during the campaign.

What kind of person would support a horrible person like Alex Jones?  A person equally reprehensible.

The same type of person who sexually gropes women and brags about it.  The same type of person that would discriminate against minorities.....

Trump is horrible.  There is no comparison between Clinton and Trump.  On Clinton's worst day.....she is a far better person, and far more qualified than Donnie.  She was a bad person.....running against a HORRIBLE person. 

I have absolutely no respect for anyone who supports Trump.  It is a direct reflection of what type of person they are.
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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2631 on: August 07, 2017, 10:41:32 PM »
I see that the USDA is dropping the phrase "climate change".  Good thing that Hillary didn't win...otherwise the US would be working harder on renewable energy and trying to keep global warming from spinning further out of control.  And we sure wouldn't want to be doing THAT.😳

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2632 on: August 08, 2017, 02:06:36 AM »
Martin & Jim


Take a look at Hillary's response to Qaddafi's being sodomized with a bayonet, then tell me again that this is the person you'd want as Commander in Chief.


This isn't right wing propaganda, this is Hillary on National Television.


Grab a selection of the clips, play them until you've convinced yourself that this isn't some trick editing, then explain to me how I've been duped by the Russians, the far right, or seduced by Bernie.


In the last presidential race we had a choice between a nutcase who thought he could work with Putin, and a monster who giggled as a colleague was killed in a most gruesome manner, and who shrilled that Putin was the next Hitler.


Take your pick.
Terry

AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2633 on: August 08, 2017, 03:37:17 AM »
In the last presidential race we had a choice between a nutcase who thought he could work with Putin, and a monster who giggled as a colleague was killed in a most gruesome manner, and who shrilled that Putin was the next Hitler.

And FDR (the man who beat Hitler) put US citizens into internment camps just because it was convenient for him.  So what is your point?
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TerryM

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2634 on: August 08, 2017, 03:52:15 AM »
In the last presidential race we had a choice between a nutcase who thought he could work with Putin, and a monster who giggled as a colleague was killed in a most gruesome manner, and who shrilled that Putin was the next Hitler.

And FDR (the man who beat Hitler) put US citizens into internment camps just because it was convenient for him.  So what is your point?


I always felt that he beat Churchill, and I live close to a city named for Kitchener, who kind of started the whole concentration camp thing.
But I really don't see the relevance?


Terry

AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2635 on: August 08, 2017, 04:22:06 AM »

I always felt that he beat Churchill, and I live close to a city named for Kitchener, who kind of started the whole concentration camp thing.
But I really don't see the relevance?


Terry

The relevance is that no one is perfect but that Hillary is much closer to FDR than is The Donald.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2017, 04:46:47 AM by AbruptSLR »
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sidd

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2636 on: August 08, 2017, 07:04:02 AM »
There is ironic aptness to the comparison to FDR.

Consider FDR radio speeches, the fireside chats. That is now Trump on Twitter.

And that is why they won. They understood the media and the mood better than their opponents.

sidd

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2637 on: August 08, 2017, 02:55:36 PM »
There is ironic aptness to the comparison to FDR.

Consider FDR radio speeches, the fireside chats. That is now Trump on Twitter.

And that is why they won. They understood the media and the mood better than their opponents.

sidd

Yes, FDR's Fireside Chats were exactly like Trump's tweets. Examples:

FDR: "We have spent large sums of money on the national defense. This money has been used to make our Army and Navy today the largest, the best equipped, and the best trained peace-time military establishment in the whole history of this country."

Trump: "We don't have the leadership, including the Generals (who just said the element of surprise does not matter) to attack anyone! Cool it."

FDR: "We remember that the Chinese people were the first to stand up and fight against the aggressors in this war; and in the future a still unconquerable China will play its proper role in maintaining peace and prosperity, not only in Eastern Asia but in the whole world."

Trump: "China has been taking out massive amounts of money & wealth from the U.S. in totally one-sided trade, but won't help with North Korea. Nice!"

Yes. Exactly the same.

Buddy

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2638 on: August 08, 2017, 03:27:21 PM »
Sure glad that Clinton isn't in the Oval Office, otherwise we would be INCREASING our troop count in Afghanistan.....and sending troops into the Philippines.  Oh wait......that IS what Donnie is doing.  Boy.....he really snookered me. :o
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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2639 on: August 08, 2017, 04:46:13 PM »
Martin & Jim


Take a look at Hillary's response to Qaddafi's being sodomized with a bayonet, then tell me again that this is the person you'd want as Commander in Chief.


This isn't right wing propaganda, this is Hillary on National Television.


Grab a selection of the clips, play them until you've convinced yourself that this isn't some trick editing, then explain to me how I've been duped by the Russians, the far right, or seduced by Bernie.
Seen it. Also seen the reaction of my friend Abdul, who had to flee from the Qaddafi clan. Was that gruesome detail about the bayonet known to Abdul or Hillary in the moment of their rejoice? I don't seriously care! Abdul still is one of the greatest men I know personally. Perhaps not a genius, but he knows horses... What I found a more interesting dig job is the rôle of the French in this story. But I haven't done this homework yet.

You are duped by decades of right wing propaganda. Perhaps not in a literal epistemologico sense - I guess you're not yet bubbled, living in a pathological sphere beside reality (like methinks 30% of Americans)... It is more of the smell (think-miasm) of decades of conservative ape shit and rotten brain thrown around by the Very Serious People (Krugman) and their fake news clowns (now with Russian help) deludo leading the "white trash" (sorry) aka Hillary's deplorables (thank gods their pastors are divided...). This methinks has infiltrated significant portions of the "left".
« Last Edit: August 08, 2017, 05:14:06 PM by Martin Gisser »
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AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2640 on: August 08, 2017, 04:58:11 PM »
There is ironic aptness to the comparison to FDR.

Consider FDR radio speeches, the fireside chats. That is now Trump on Twitter.

And that is why they won. They understood the media and the mood better than their opponents.

sidd

sidd,

It sounds like you won't be surprised if/when Trump starts internment camps for those that he chooses to designate as 'others' for his personal advantage, especially if he can get a war started with Iran and/or North Korea.

Best,
ASLR
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Martin Gisser

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2641 on: August 08, 2017, 06:17:08 PM »
"The media" is dominated (if not epitomized) by the white trash, from Hannity to AM radio clowns like Alex Jones to more sophisticated neuroclickological Borg collectives like Bannon's breit bart...

Trump is very much a product of these media players.
And now their chicken come home to roost, Trump their cockerel, still...
(I've once seen a shocking scene of chicken cannibalism...)

--------
Sorry for having gone rhapsodistical :-)
Had met my elderly white Black Panther friend again. At the 3rd day of debate and analysis I caught him talking me out of using the wØrd "white trash" (which I didn't) and so decided spontaneously to appreciate it as a synonym for  "trumplins"...
« Last Edit: August 08, 2017, 06:25:42 PM by Martin Gisser »
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AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2642 on: August 08, 2017, 07:01:50 PM »
The primary thing keeping Trump's approval rating from collapsing is the current good economic numbers, but should those drop within the next year, then there could be a major swing in Congressional seats in the 2018 elections:

Title: "Why Trump’s Poll Numbers Matter for the 2018 Midterms"

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/first-read/why-trump-s-poll-numbers-matter-2018-midterms-n790651

Extract: "In the last 12 hours, CNN and CBS have released polls showing President Trump’s job-approval rating below 40 percent — 38 percent for CNN, and 36 percent for CBS.

Here’s why those numbers matter as we get closer to the 2018 midterms: There’s a direct correlation between a president’s approval numbers and the number of seats his party loses in his first midterm election."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2643 on: August 08, 2017, 07:19:23 PM »
The "Trump base" appears to be getting worn down......by Trump and his never-ending ability to do or say something stupid.  He is continuing to be revealed for the ignorant and unfit person he is.  He can't help himself.  He can't stop himself.  There will be many books written about the short presidency of Trump...and some of them will be written by psychologists.

Donnie's daily Gallup numbers show a 22% gap between approval and disapproval...only 2% from his all time low.  The slow grinding away of confidence in Donnie continues....one painful day after another.
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TerryM

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2644 on: August 08, 2017, 07:58:16 PM »
Martin & Jim


Take a look at Hillary's response to Qaddafi's being sodomized with a bayonet, then tell me again that this is the person you'd want as Commander in Chief.


This isn't right wing propaganda, this is Hillary on National Television.


Grab a selection of the clips, play them until you've convinced yourself that this isn't some trick editing, then explain to me how I've been duped by the Russians, the far right, or seduced by Bernie.
Seen it. Also seen the reaction of my friend Abdul, who had to flee from the Qaddafi clan. Was that gruesome detail about the bayonet known to Abdul or Hillary in the moment of their rejoice? I don't seriously care! Abdul still is one of the greatest men I know personally. Perhaps not a genius, but he knows horses... What I found a more interesting dig job is the rôle of the French in this story. But I haven't done this homework yet.
Was "Abdul" opposed to the free medical care, free education, or housing allowance all Libians enjoyed? Perhaps he preferred wandering the desert on horseback to schooling at Europe's best universities, care of his government. Well, you did mention that his forte was not of an intellectual sort, so all things are possible.
You are duped by decades of right wing propaganda. Perhaps not in a literal epistemologico sense - I guess you're not yet bubbled, living in a pathological sphere beside reality (like methinks 30% of Americans)... It is more of the smell (think-miasm) of decades of conservative ape shit and rotten brain thrown around by the Very Serious People (Krugman) and their fake news clowns (now with Russian help) deludo leading the "white trash" (sorry) aka Hillary's deplorables (thank gods their pastors are divided...). This methinks has infiltrated significant portions of the "left".


I'm sorry, but I must assume that English is not your native tongue. A cursory spell check might help.
I've lived in Southern Ontario Canada, So. California, Berkeley California, Portland Oregon, Las Vegas Nevada,(Harry Reid's district), then back to Southern Ontario Canada. Which of these provided the right wing breeding ground you imagine?


Your writing is unclear, and I don't understand why you apologize for writing "white trash".


Personally my father owned 2 factories, my mother had a small chain of upscale interior decoration outlets, and my grandfather was the first superintendent of General Electric, you may have heard of them? My grandfather and my father were chemists, as well as successful entrepreneurs so talk around the dinner table seldom concerned itself with whether Betty Lou was pregnant with Bubba's baby, or who was buying the latest model Remington.


I've had my ups and downs, but no one at any time ever considered me to be trailer trash, or even slightly aligned with right wing politics.


Having distracted from Hillary's hideous reaction to Qaddafi's murder, I suppose your ad hominem was successful, but in future I'd advise learning something of your intended victim's background, rather than attacking with boiler plate script that doesn't fit the subject at hand.


Terry

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2645 on: August 08, 2017, 08:21:51 PM »
Now that we think that Donnie's twin brother, Kim Jong Un, has miniaturized capability for delivering a nuclear warhead, we have someone in the oval office who's....

1). Level headed
2). Calm
3). Great decision making processes
4). Someone we know is truthful
 :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o

What could possibly go wrong?
« Last Edit: August 09, 2017, 01:38:13 PM by Buddy »
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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2646 on: August 08, 2017, 08:43:59 PM »
I'm sure that Donnie's intelligence sources at FOX News, if they aren't busy sexually harassing anyone, are on this issue like bees to honey:

1). Jeanine Pirro
2). Eric Bolling
3). Sean Hannity
4). The 3 Stooges from FOX & Fools

Why bother using the CIA or other intelligence resources at Donnie's fingertips when he has the crack intelligence team at FARCE......I mean 🦊 FOX?
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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2647 on: August 08, 2017, 09:49:49 PM »
The WH has an appetite for war with Iran:

Title: "Is Trump About to Push Us into War with Iran?"

http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/trump-about-push-us-war-iran

Extract: "Poe asked Tillerson directly whether the U.S. government supported “a philosophy of regime change, peaceful regime change?”

Tillerson responded: “Our policy toward Iran is to work toward support of those elements inside of Iran that would lead to a peaceful transition of that government. Those elements are there, certainly.” In other words, Tillerson said, the U.S. government was committed to overthrowing the current government in Iran by peaceful means.

What he means by “peaceful” should not be taken lightly. No regime change operation is ever peaceful. The Trump administration, meanwhile, is conducting an inter-agency review of the sanctions on Iran and of the various options available to the U.S. for action against Iran. These options include military force. There is belligerence in the air.

Trump had wanted to refuse to certify the deal this time, and in the previous round. His national security team convinced him that the deal was valuable. One staff member said Trump signed on only after making it clear that the next time things would be different.

Dangerous signals come from the new sanctions and from the hot wars between U.S. proxies, including Israel, and the Iranian-backed forces. When Trump was in Saudi Arabia in May, he suggested that the conflict between the U.S. and Iran was a “battle between good and evil."

There is an appetite for war in the Trump White House and among its Israeli and Saudi partners. The war this time will be against Iran. If West Asia is in chaos now, there is no adequate word to describe its fate if that full-scale war actually begins."
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AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2648 on: August 08, 2017, 10:08:11 PM »
Why bother using the CIA or other intelligence resources at Donnie's fingertips when he has the crack intelligence team at FARCE......I mean 🦊 FOX?


Why would The Donald need CIA input when he already has a 'shock and awe' plan in hand?

Title: "Trump Vows North Korea Threat Will Be Met With ‘Fire and Fury’"

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/trump-vows-north-korea-could-be-met-fire-fury-n790896

Extract: ""North Korea best not make any more threats to the United States," the president warned, responding to a question during a brief press availability at his Bedminster Golf Club, where he's spent the last several days. "They will be met with fire, fury and frankly power the likes of which this world has never seen before.""
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
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AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2649 on: August 08, 2017, 10:23:05 PM »
As Trump is running in to obstacles to privatizing US infrastructure, so he is now considering privatizing the Afghan War:

Title: "Blackwater founder Erik Prince proposes privatizing Afghanistan war"

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/blackwater-founder-erik-prince-privatize-afghanistan-war-contractors/

Extract: "The Trump administration is, however, considering a plan proposed by Blackwater founder Erik Prince to privatize a large portion of the U.S. effort in Afghanistan. Prince's plan would send about 5,000 private military contractors to replace U.S. troops helping the Afghan army. Now executive director and chairman of Frontier Services Group, Prince said his plan would cut the annual cost of the war from an estimated $45 billion to less than $10 billion."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson