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sidd

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1250 on: February 05, 2017, 07:06:51 AM »
1) I apologize for my last comment. Neven is perfectly capable of defending himself, and I ought not have responded as intemperately as I did.

2) In some explanation, but certainly not justification: When I posted the comment, I had just put a thousand miles on the road, little sleep or rest, through rural midwest, or as some would have it, Trump country. I wound up forawhile (dont ask) in Punxsutawney, PA at the groundhog thing at dawn.

Groundhog day is all they got. These guys are just as scared as you. Kids don't wanna farm, but they got no jobs and moving back in. Houses, farms, pensions, health care got stolen. They got nuttn. Thats why they voted Trump in. They woulda voted for sanders if he'd been on the ballot.

I attach a picture. These guys aint scary. Groundhog Phil is all they got.

PS: nice firework show. i hadn't been that close to fireworks in a while. Phil was fighting, didnt wanna come out. Took two grown men to drag him out, and there were some teeth involved.

sidd

Buddy

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1251 on: February 05, 2017, 04:16:07 PM »
Sidd:

Quote
1) I apologize for my last comment. Neven is perfectly capable of defending himself, and I ought not have responded as intemperately as I did.

No need to apologize to me.  Again...I don't blame you for that at all.   Enough said...we're good.

Quote
2) In some explanation, but certainly not justification: When I posted the comment, I had just put a thousand miles on the road, little sleep or rest, through rural midwest, or as some would have it, Trump country. I wound up for a while (dont ask) in Punxsutawney, PA at the groundhog thing at dawn.

Funny story.  I was "sentenced" to 3 years of "corporate confinement" in Mechanicsburg, PA. Corporate HQ was in Mechanicsburg.  The first thing I did was buy a USA today newspaper after getting off the plane, and it had an article on states with the "highest percentage of people who are BORN IN THE STATE".  Pennsylvania had...at that time....over 80% of the residents of Pennsylvania WERE BORN IN PA.  I LOVED the work....but I was treated by those outside the company as if I had leprosy.  If your parents/grandparents/Ggrandparents/GGgrandparents weren't ALL born in PA....YOU were an outsider.

And yes....I agree that if Bernie had been on the ballot....he would have beat Trump in PA.  In fact....I think Bernie would have beat Trump PERIOD.  Its just that the deck was stacked against him (both LITERALLY....and figuratively).  The way the Democratic primaries were positioned....with most of the Southern primaries FIRST...gave Hillary a BIG advantage.  And yes...the DNC did their utmost to make sure that Hillary was going to win.

I really thought hoped....that Donnie would lose this time.....and Hillary would be taken down next.  Who knew that we will get BOTH of them in one fell swoop....even if that swoop takes 18 months or more.


FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

Buddy

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1252 on: February 05, 2017, 04:23:27 PM »
OK....before the firestorm of "Week 3 At The Apocalypse" starts....everyone needs humor.  Saturday night live was hilarious.  The take down of Sean Spicer was....LMFAO funny.  Humor really can "cut to the chase" sometimes and expose a person's vulnerabilities:

Sean Spicer takedown:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/melissa-mccarthy-sean-spicer-snl_us_58973380e4b09bd304bbbfcf?

Trump and Bannon opening:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/alec-baldwins-donald-trump-wreaks-world-havoc-with-a-skeletal-steve-bannon-on-snl_us_58971c80e4b0406131374ee7?

What we are going through is VERY SERIOUS STUFF.  So you have to get your laughs in between or you'll lose your sanity.



FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

Bruce Steele

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1253 on: February 05, 2017, 05:29:00 PM »
Yesterday there were several news reports about Nordstrom canceling Ivanka Trump's clothing line
"due to poor sales".  I did hear one mention of a boycott but the correlation of a boycott and poor sales was largely missed by news organization. When a Google search for " Ivanka Trump Nordstrom Boycott" failed I looked further and found this.
 
"Dozens of businesses nationwide, including some based in the Bay Area, have made it onto Shannon Coulter’s #GrabYourWallet list.

Coulter started the list during the run-up to the November presidential election when she launched a boycott of Ivanka Trump’s clothing and shoe lines."

I believe boycotts are a potential weapon agains't our current rogue government but social media will need to step up and push boycotts as a way to fight back. I wonder if mainstream media is afraid of Trump retaliating if they were to actually get involved in preserving our democracy. Money and fear are driving their corporate interests I am sure.
http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2017/02/02/boycott-list-of-trump-friendly-businesses-grows/
« Last Edit: February 05, 2017, 05:35:58 PM by Bruce Steele »

pileus

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1254 on: February 05, 2017, 05:57:46 PM »

Funny story.  I was "sentenced" to 3 years of "corporate confinement" in Mechanicsburg, PA. Corporate HQ was in Mechanicsburg.  The first thing I did was buy a USA today newspaper after getting off the plane, and it had an article on states with the "highest percentage of people who are BORN IN THE STATE".  Pennsylvania had...at that time....over 80% of the residents of Pennsylvania WERE BORN IN PA.  I LOVED the work....but I was treated by those outside the company as if I had leprosy.  If your parents/grandparents/Ggrandparents/GGgrandparents weren't ALL born in PA....YOU were an outsider.


Well your experience in Mechanicsburg city would be similar in other parts of PA except for Philadelphia and Pittsburgh and probably most traditionally rural areas of President Trump country.  They are in general not very worldly, tend to stay close to home, and have seen an acceleration of change and expansion of the oligarchy is some areas, and literal rust and decay in others.  All of this on top of inherent bias leads to a distrust of outsiders and newcomers.  President Trump is a master of playing to these fears, but that base is shrinking and he seems to be ignoring advices to expand his appeal to the more cosmopolitan areas.

Buddy

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1255 on: February 05, 2017, 06:09:08 PM »
Did a single journalist ask Trump or his crew about the attack by a Christian terrorist on a Muslim mosque in Canada?  Hmmmmmm
FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1256 on: February 05, 2017, 07:40:44 PM »
The linked article is entitled: "Republicans denounce Trump's defense of 'killer' Putin".  Just how far to the bottom is the establishment GOP willing to ride the Trump comet?

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/02/republicans-denounce-trumps-defense-of-killer-putin-234665

Extract: "The president's remark downplaying the Russian president's violent history reopens a foreign policy rift with conservatives.

In a pre-taped Fox interview partially released on Saturday and set to air in full during the Super Bowl pregame show, Bill O’Reilly pressed Trump on his warm relationship with Putin.

Trump stressed that stronger U.S.- Russia ties could help defeat the Islamic State.

But “Putin’s a killer,” O’Reilly said.

“You got a lot of killers,” Trump shot back. “What, you think our country’s so innocent?”"
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

DrTskoul

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1257 on: February 05, 2017, 07:45:31 PM »
Did a single journalist ask Trump or his crew about the attack by a Christian terrorist on a Muslim mosque in Canada?  Hmmmmmm

There are so many questions that can be asked!!  It as gish gallop  (also known as proof by verbosity and the Trump Tirade) of idiocy....


DrTskoul

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1258 on: February 05, 2017, 07:50:19 PM »
More on the rebuttal:

Quote
There are several ways to rebut a Gish Gallop:
1) Gish Rebuttal: Go toe-to-toe and rebut every individual argument. This is the most difficult method (since every point is in contention) but the most effective answer (because the Galloper's argument is completely demolished and has no legs to stand on). An additional problem is that, if the rebuttal features even one error, the Galloper can sieze on that (see "Single Flaw Rebuttal") and claim all rebuttals are similarly flawed.
2) Small Sample Rebuttal: Select a portion of their arguments (first 10, random 10, etc.) and rebut that. This is the second most difficult method (since many points are in contention) but the second most effective answer (because it shows that a representative sample of the Galloper's evidence is flawed, which casts doubt on the remaining portion).
3) Best Point Rebuttal: Ask the Galloper to select and summarize the "best" proof and debate that. This is the second easiest method (since only one point is debated and the burden of proof is shifted to the Galloper) but second least effective answer (because even though it's the best point, they can easily argue that all the other points are good enough to win, in effect accusing you of asking for one single proof).
4) Single Flaw Rebuttal: Select the weakest argument the Galloper presents, rebut it, and call it a day. This is the easiest method (since it's necessarily the easiest-to-rebut argument) but is terribly ineffective. This method is unlikely to persuade the Galloper or any onlookers -- it doesn't even look like you've tried.
5) Fallacy Namedropping: Say that it's a Gish Gallop and walk away, having convinced nobody but yourself.

There is no "best" way.

Milret2

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1259 on: February 05, 2017, 08:08:34 PM »
An interested observer of the ASIF board since Neven so kindly placed it here I must say I have loved it both for the highly objective and involved climate and science advocacy I have seen and for this specific thread. I am/was a Bernie supporter ,who was co-opted by my wife after the primary and my own fear of Trump to vote for Clinton, and I have done some international travel both when I was in the military and now that I am retired so I appreciate the varying views in this specific thread as well as the well argued and realitively polite explorations shown by all regards America's current dilemma. Just wanted to say thanks for all the fish folks ;).

OrganicSu

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1260 on: February 05, 2017, 09:48:40 PM »
I would vote Clinton, but now, I'd vote Trump.
Why?
We are all on a big bus, called Earth, heading direct for a large cliff, at full speed. Every time we buy stuff we throw some more fuel in the bus's tank. If we take a flight we throw much more fuel in the tank. The bus already has enough fuel to get to the cliff! If we buy a car we tie a rope to the steering wheel to prevent us turning away from the cliff. A strong rope if it's an ice car and a bit less strong rope if it's electric. If we take a new job which requires regular flights then we tie a carbon kevlar rope to the steering wheel. There are so many ropes tying the steering wheel in place that it can't be undone. Even those screaming to undo the ropes keep tying new ropes and throwing more fuel in the tank.

With Clinton it is absolutely clear that the bus would have been kept in good shape and we would have sped on directly. Some fumbling about changing direction, maybe, but in the end, the most we would have got was some ropes tying the steering wheel in place would have just changed colour.
With Trump we don't know. He might blow up the bus?

If I'm nature, and I want abundant life and diversity on this planet, I need to realise it's too late for the living creatures I've got now. I can get over those bad boy bombs, I think. In many millions of years I'll get some weird, wacky and complex living organisms going again. But I know that any more emissions are probably going to override my final breaking mechanisms, the ones I've ues a few times in the distant past. I may completely overheat and loose my air to outer space. Maybe that would be ok too? Maybe in zillions of years some of my air will find fertile ground in several other places and the fun can begin again in several places. Maybe that's a better end result after all.

Ok, I'm voting Clinton, if it's not too late.

AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1261 on: February 06, 2017, 02:41:30 AM »
I am generally impressed by OrganicSu's post, as to me, it illustrates the limits of deductive logic, and how using such logic one can reach any conclusion one wants to reach.  In a political thread, like this one, Bernie supports can present leftist populist logic, Trump aficionados can present alt-right pseudo-populist logic, and establishment supporters (Obama/Clinton/etc) can present globalist logic. 

As I have recently posted criticizing alt-right pseudo-populist logic; and a number of other people have criticized the establishment/globalist logic; I think that it is only fair to offer some criticisms of leftist populist (small is beautiful [I. e.: principle of subsidiarity]) logic; which I offer as follows:

(1) Scientific climate change planners indicate that the most effective tool in their toolbox is concentrating the coming 10-billion world population (circa 2050) in mega-cities, as any small is beautiful calls for everyone to grow their own food would either result the destruction of most of nature (turned into gardens), or the death of hundreds of millions to billions of people due to crop failures from poorly qualified people's inability to cope with an increasingly variable climate.
(2) Populism typically results in a power vacuum that invites corruption and/or authoritarianism.  This is because populism often argue that they need to break down government, including checks and balances that get in their way of making change.
(3) Small is beautiful requires people to be willing to be accountable for their actions/decisions; which requires more information management; a which is more difficult to achieve as the world population approaches 10 billion people, many of whom think that greed is good.
(4) Human beings decisions becoming increasingly dominated by emotions/passion as systemic pressure increases, and as we are already in 'overshoot' systemic pressure will only increase with time.



See the linked article entitled: “Big is Beautiful”

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2011/10/31/big-is-beautiful

Extract: “We may spend our dollars at Walmart and ikea, but in our hearts we have a soft spot for the corner store .

And state and federal fair-trade laws allowed manufacturers to set a minimum resale price for their goods and to legally prohibit retailers from discounting them.

The odd thing is that although these laws stemmed from a populist movement, they actually resulted in price increases for the public at large. In other words, it wasn’t consumers the government was trying to protect from big business—it was small business.

Small may be beautiful. It’s just not all that prosperous. “


See also the linked article entitled: “Small is not beautiful


http://www.economist.com/node/21548945

Extract: “PEOPLE find it hard to like businesses once they grow beyond a certain size. Banks that were “too big to fail” sparked a global economic crisis and burned bundles of taxpayers' cash.

It is shrewd politics to champion the little guy. But the popular fetish for small business is at odds with economic reality. Big firms are generally more productive, offer higher wages and pay more taxes than small ones. Economies dominated by small firms are often sluggish.”


Don't get me wrong, I love sustainable thinking & I love empowerment of individuals; however, such thinking must come with individual, business and governmental accountability; which includes admitting that globally our social and environmental systems are currently degrading and that wishful (Pollyanna) thinking will not make real world problems disappear.
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

Bruce Steele

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1262 on: February 06, 2017, 05:20:55 AM »
"Small may be beautiful, it is just not that prosperous" and " the popular fetish for small business is at odds with economic reality "  may both be rational arguments from an economic perspective but in the end survival may not be determined by economic rational or reasoning.
 Until you attempt to take "small is beautiful " to an extreme like hyper local food production and foraging it is very difficult to get your head around the fact that almost everyone in western society is dependent on books or the Internet to provide themselves with food( let alone energy supplies )We don't have an oral tradition that can provide advice on what is safe food or poison. We don't have elders to give us advice, we are very far removed from the foundations of our former societal traditions that kept food supplies safe, let alone plentiful.
 Virtually all of western society has abandoned the personal knowledge necessary to strike out alone or ( even more difficult ) provide for a small village. There are of course societies still in tact that do maintain these traditions but they are not economically viable by any definition prescribed by modern standards or publications like " The Economist "They are however sustainable even in the face of climate change.
 Maybe the meek will inherit the earth. They won't be worried about 7  or 8 billion people having
perished in their shining cities.  They will be worried about next winters food stores just like they always were. Yes climate change will hammer them also but societies with sound foundations may have a better ability to modify their traditions as things change than the limitless nonsense we think money can buy.
 Forget modern medicine, the grocery store, and  modern transportation. Take reductionism to it's logical end ( if wars ,disease, famine and Trumponian greed retake us unprepared )  We have forgotten our past .

budmantis

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1263 on: February 06, 2017, 05:21:39 AM »

But “Putin’s a killer,” O’Reilly said.

“You got a lot of killers,” Trump shot back. “What, you think our country’s so innocent?”"

Surprisingly, Trump does have a point. The U.S. has a lot of blood on its hands.

pileus

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1264 on: February 06, 2017, 07:38:43 AM »

But “Putin’s a killer,” O’Reilly said.

“You got a lot of killers,” Trump shot back. “What, you think our country’s so innocent?”"

Surprisingly, Trump does have a point. The U.S. has a lot of blood on its hands.

It will be interesting to observe how this positioning translates through the various media filters and political leadership over the coming weeks.  Such a statement by a president in years past would have been met with immediate condemnation, but as we know Trump has broken the rule book.  And to be sure partisanship has jumped the shark, and traditional GOP Russia hawks may not be as publicly outraged as in days gone by.  Americans in general have long had a context-free and cartoonish view of Russia/USSR, and typically have the adversarial paradigm of Russia=bad/evil against the unfortunate and mistaken thing known as "American exceptionalism", which doesn't stand up against honest analysis, comparative metrics and too easily sweeps away sins past and present. 

It's going to be a pretty big change curve for most American institutions and average citizens WRT to where it seems this executive branch intends to evolve the US relationship with Russia.  This is course acknowledges that most US citizens could care a whit about Russia or international concerns, unless it disrupts their day to day existence or creates a perceived threat to safety.

Buddy

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1265 on: February 06, 2017, 12:01:00 PM »
Quote
Surprisingly, Trump does have a point. The U.S. has a lot of blood on its hands.

Russia's blood on their hands...extends to politicians and journalists in their own country.
FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

Buddy

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1266 on: February 06, 2017, 01:02:14 PM »
More "fraying" of Trump's power continues.  All of this has an effect.  Much like global warming....EVERYHING has an effect.  As well.....you can see that the Trump folks have now taken to the air via coming out with what I would describe as "Trump policy adds" in support of Trump, and asking for people to contact their politicians.  Which tells me their politicians are tired of hearing from the anti-Trump folks AND that his folks understand that Trump can't allow his poll numbers to slip a lot more....

Again....momentum is a powerful thing.  And Trump's folks understand that.  Right now it is against him, and they are trying to stop it and try to turn it around.

You can see the HUGE crowds  ;) in support of Trump.  Looks like they may have more than 1.5 million marchers in Portland, Oregon.... ;)

http://freakoutnation.com/2017/02/fox-news-plays-up-pitiful-pro-trump-rally-turnouts-video/


Tech companies line up against travel ban executive order by Trump:

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/feb/06/apple-google-facebook-microsoft-file-opposition-to-donald-trump-immigration-ban


More "droppings" from Invanka's clothing line....Neiman Marcus:

http://nymag.com/thecut/2017/02/neiman-marcus-has-also-dropped-ivanka-trumps-line.html

FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

Buddy

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1267 on: February 06, 2017, 01:16:20 PM »
Remember....the People's Climate March AND the White House Correspondents Dinner (WHCD) are on the same day this year:  April 29th.

There has already been some "pullback" at the WHCD.  A couple of the media outlets that usually hold parties on that day....are choosing not to this time around.  I expect more to follow.  The WHCD could take on a quite different feeling this year.  Usually there are a LOT of Hollywood folks that attend.  I don't expect many of them this year obviously.

http://nypost.com/2017/02/03/white-house-correspondents-dinner-feeling-wrath-of-trumps-media-feuds/

Momentum....
FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

OrganicSu

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1268 on: February 06, 2017, 03:01:57 PM »
OrganicSu's post, to me, illustrates the limits of deductive logic, and how using such logic one can reach any conclusion one wants to reach.....

Dearest ASLR,
I completely agree. Any viewpoint can be  deduced and justified. It's probably why my viewpoint changes so fundamentally, so often. I also wish you to know I greatly appreciate your posts too - very wide ranging and thought provoking, just like this forum (which is almost my only interaction with the internet).

The Tokyo conglomeration is 37 million. It's environmental impact and carbon footprint is enormous. There are convenience stores on almost every corner. Home delivery is 24/7 available for any product or service desired (maybe not a heart transplant but almost everything else).
I believe the society enabling its existence will collapse in my life time. I would live there on one condition only - if big was beautiful. The current set-up of all large cities I know is not beautiful. It only serves to separate humans from that upon which they depend (nature) and allows conspicuous consumption without any consideration of the implications. This benefits corporates and the elite.

I would go to Toyko to live if all 37 million agreed to turn off the electricity, spend all waking hours in meditation trying to attain enlightenment, live on 1 rice ball a day. That, IMHO, would be something so wonderful and special that I couldn't miss it. It would be living within the planet's limits.
But that's not going to happen, is it?
And so, I'm trying to find my own path forward. I believe it's already each person for him or herself but that currently there are sufficient essential supplies for most. My ultimate goal (which I haven't a hope of achieving) is to be able to live without permanent shelter and to be able to find sufficient water and food that can be eaten raw on any day of the year even allowing for the reduction in availability of these resources due to AGW.

So what's this doing on the Trump thread? It's so off topic, isn't it?

Maybe due to Trump I need to try to attain my ultimate goal in a couple of years rather than decades. Trump is a wild card. For nature, a viewpoint from which I often try to see, I can equally deduce that Trump is great and that Trump is terrible. Do I want immediate worldwide societal collapse or don't I? I probably don't want it, but I would love if the planes would stop flying,


Edit - I'm deleting this "by whatever Machiavellian means necessary." before Neven whips me into line. It could be seen as possibly advocating criminal or terrorist attacks and that is way below the standards of this forum.
So let me try and balance it with a different, peaceful sentiment - imagine at the big April rallies if everyone just slowly ate a rice ball or sandwich over several hours. No shouting and releasing of pent up energy. Keep the anger/energy. Focus on eating. Not 1 placard mentioning Trump's name or policies. Ignore him. That, more than angry chanting, would drive him totally mad, IMHO.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2017, 05:00:20 PM by OrganicSu »

Buddy

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1269 on: February 06, 2017, 03:04:09 PM »
The population of "Trump Island" (that mythical island populated by Trump supporters) still has a pretty sizeable population.

But with each passing day....more and more folks are leaving "Trump Island".

https://www.axios.com/macys-may-be-next-in-line-to-boycott-ivanka-trumps-line-2240893879.html

For Ivanka...it has been Nordstrom's, Neiman Marcus, and now Macy's is coming under pressure.  Macy's has a boatload of other issues anyway.....as retail continues to move to Al Gore's internet ;).  They don't need people boycotting them too.

End of February is rapidly approaching.  Will we get anymore information on Donnie?  Well known people.....as well as "anonymous" people are interested in knowing.





 
FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

pileus

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1270 on: February 06, 2017, 03:27:54 PM »
Remember....the People's Climate March AND the White House Correspondents Dinner (WHCD) are on the same day this year:  April 29th.

There has already been some "pullback" at the WHCD.  A couple of the media outlets that usually hold parties on that day....are choosing not to this time around.  I expect more to follow.  The WHCD could take on a quite different feeling this year.  Usually there are a LOT of Hollywood folks that attend.  I don't expect many of them this year obviously.

http://nypost.com/2017/02/03/white-house-correspondents-dinner-feeling-wrath-of-trumps-media-feuds/

Momentum....

The science March was moved to 4/22, perhaps due to the press dinner or maybe to align with earth day.  Hopefully general protests will still be permitted, as this White House is blatantly assualting the judiciary in the context of a potential terror attack by Muslims or immigrants.  They are setting it up as a pretext to consolidate more power and suspend additional rights.  And they know it's nearly impossible to stop a lone wolf or small scale attack, especially with America's lax gun laws.  Call it a Reichstag fire or not, but it's so easy to see what could happen.

The press dinner will either not happen, or it will simply be the outlets that Trumps does not declare as "fake news", which is a ever shrinking list.

Buddy

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1271 on: February 06, 2017, 03:50:53 PM »
Quote
Call it a Reichstag fire or not, but it's so easy to see what could happen.

Yes....anything could happen.  Hopefully they will go off peacefully.  But I am sure there are some in the WH and elsewhere that would love a reason to crack down.

Quote
The press dinner will either not happen, or it will simply be the outlets that Trumps does not declare as "fake news", which is a ever shrinking list.

Didn't realize the date of the march had been moved.  Anything could happen with the WHCD....although I think, knowing Trump and Bannon's egos.....that they would want to be seen and heard front and center....and a way for Trump to get back at Obama from this:



And Seth Meyer's Trump takedown that year as well:



Unless Trump's people do something REALLY outrageous against the press over the coming couple of months.....I don't see the dinner being canceled.  But in Trumpworld...ANYTHING is possible.  And we have plenty of time before April comes around...

FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

Bruce Steele

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1272 on: February 06, 2017, 04:39:21 PM »
I complained about this thread a couple days ago .Although I am sure it has nothing to do with my complaints I have found some good reading here of late. Solid comments without shouting.
 OrganicSU, Because I believe you are living closer to zero carbon than any other commenter on this blog you deserve a voice here. In my comments yesterday I mentioned the Four horsemen of the
Apocalypse. Famine, War, Pestilence and the one I have always had a hard time remembering
Conquest. Trump will always help me remember the horseman riding conquest.

DrTskoul

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1273 on: February 06, 2017, 05:09:30 PM »
Θέλει ο δικτάτορας να κρυφτεί μα η χαρά δεν τον αφήνει....( Paraphrased Greek proverb...)

Trump Says Your Opinions Are Fake If You Don’t Like His Policies

Sharpening his dictator skills? ...

budmantis

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1274 on: February 06, 2017, 05:14:51 PM »
I complained about this thread a couple days ago .Although I am sure it has nothing to do with my complaints I have found some good reading here of late. Solid comments without shouting.
 OrganicSU, Because I believe you are living closer to zero carbon than any other commenter on this blog you deserve a voice here. In my comments yesterday I mentioned the Four horsemen of the
Apocalypse. Famine, War, Pestilence and the one I have always had a hard time remembering
Conquest. Trump will always help me remember the horseman riding conquest.

Bruce: I've always enjoyed your posts and I'm glad to see you post on this thread. Same goes for OrganicSu.

OrganicSu

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1275 on: February 06, 2017, 05:17:29 PM »
OT but important, at least for me...
Thank you for the kind words Bruce. I would be proud to be currently emitting the lowest for this forum, but, and this continuously hurts me, I'm sure my cumulative, life to date emissions are in the upper half for this forum.

Sigmetnow

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1276 on: February 06, 2017, 05:34:11 PM »
...
But with each passing day....more and more folks are leaving "Trump Island".
...

Bill McKibben:  My favorite picture ever, under headline "Supporters of President Trump Rally In Portland Maine"  http://wgme.com/news/local/supporters-of-president-trump-rally-in-portland
https://twitter.com/billmckibben/status/828337252593963012

The news link has replaced the photo with a video, but the effect is the same.  :)
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

budmantis

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1277 on: February 06, 2017, 06:08:48 PM »
In Trumpworld that would be called "fake news".

AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1278 on: February 06, 2017, 06:11:55 PM »
The linked article shows how the GOP & Team Trump are working steadily to gut the EPA's ability to fight climate change:

https://www.skepticalscience.com/repeal-without-replace-gop-strategy-obamacare-climate.html

Extract: "House Republicans have introduced a bill to rewrite the Clean Air Act. The bill, which has 114 co-sponsors (all Republicans), would revise the Clean Air Act such that:

The term ‘air pollutant’ does not include carbon dioxide, water vapor, methane, nitrous oxide, hydrofluorocarbons, perfluorocarbons, or sulfur hexafluoride.

This change would kill the EPA regulation of carbon pollution that’s a key component of the Clean Power Plan."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1279 on: February 06, 2017, 06:13:23 PM »
However we should be really worried about left fake news!  That will feed to their narrative...

Fake news for liberals: misinformation starts to lean left under Trump

Be vigilant....

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1280 on: February 06, 2017, 08:45:01 PM »
Are the testicles at the press getting larger?

http://www.rawstory.com/2017/02/cnn-considers-permanent-ban-for-kellyanne-conway-over-serious-questions-about-credibility-report/

The US press has been bad for a long time.  This last election was pitiful however....even for their low standards.  Perhaps they have started to figure out WHY.....

We'll see if anyone else steps up to the plate......




FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1281 on: February 07, 2017, 04:16:55 AM »
The linked article is entitled: "President Trump is now speculating that the media is covering up terrorist attacks".  Apparently, claims of alternate facts will be a way of life as long a Trump is in office.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2017/02/06/president-trump-is-now-speculating-that-the-media-is-covering-up-terrorist-attacks/?utm_term=.68607cebae1b

Extract: "Speaking to the U.S. Central Command on Monday, President Trump went off his prepared remarks to make a truly stunning claim: The media was intentionally covering up reports of terrorist attacks."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
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Pmt111500

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1282 on: February 07, 2017, 08:47:58 AM »
"Oh, there is some lovely filth down here!": https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/861?r=5

LRC1962

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1283 on: February 07, 2017, 09:06:14 AM »
Are the testicles at the press getting larger?

The US press has been bad for a long time.  This last election was pitiful however....even for their low standards.  Perhaps they have started to figure out WHY.....

We'll see if anyone else steps up to the plate......
Corporate CEOs push back on Trump's policies
Quote
Kalanick abruptly quit Trump's Business Advisory Group ahead of a meeting with the president, Feb. 3. Corporate heavyweights including Ford, Apple, Facebook, Microsoft, Starbucks have openly criticized the new restrictions and are expected to be at that meeting to ask the president some tough questions.
Media gets money from ads. Ads from these giants could be affected if they play their cards wrong. Trump could find that populism, running into corporate world, running into judicial world could be a  far bigger problem then he has ever thought.
"All truth passes through three stages: First, it is ridiculed; Second,  it is violently opposed; and Third, it is accepted as self-evident."
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AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1284 on: February 07, 2017, 01:59:21 PM »
The linked article is entitled: "What Steve Bannon Wants You to Read"; and helps to explain Bannon's brand of populist/nationalist thinking; which is highly dependent on maintaining/accelerating an atmosphere of fear of experts and of managerialism.  It is obvious that this type of thinking will result in the muzzling of climate scientists who both act as experts and who want to manager human behavior w.r.t. our collective radiative forcing pathways (when in reality the fossil fuel industry has government protecting the industry from being held accountable to the GHG pollution that they are imposing on mankind, which is the true managerialism that Team Trump should be fighting against if they were not kleptocratics looking to take advantage of uncertainty/fear).

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/02/steve-bannon-books-reading-list-214745

Extract: "President Trump’s strategic adviser is elevating a once-obscure network of political thinkers.

Bannon’s readings tend to have one thing in common: the view that technocrats have put Western civilization on a downward trajectory, and that only a shock to the system can reverse its decline. And they tend to have a dark, apocalyptic tone that at times echoes Bannon’s own public remarks over the years—a sense that humanity is at a hinge point in history. His ascendant presence in the West Wing is giving once-obscure intellectuals unexpected influence over the highest echelons of government.

… a current period that, in Bannon’s view, was sparked by the 2008 financial crisis and has now been manifested in part by the rise of Trump.

“The West is in trouble. I don’t think there’s any doubt about that, and Trump’s election was a sign of health,” said a White House aide who was not authorized to speak publicly. “It was a revolt against managerialism, a revolt against expert rule, a revolt against the administrative state. It opens the door to possibilities.”

Many political onlookers described Trump’s election as a “black swan” event: unexpected but enormously consequential. The term was popularized by Nassim Taleb, the bestselling author whose 2014 book Antifragile—which has been read and circulated by Bannon and his aides—reads like a user’s guide to the Trump insurgency.

It’s a broadside against big government, which Taleb faults for suppressing the randomness, volatility and stress that keeps institutions and people healthy. “As with neurotically overprotective parents, those who are trying to help us are hurting us the most,” he writes. Taleb also offers a withering critique of the global elites, whom he describes as a corrupt class of risk-averse insiders immune to the consequences of their actions: “We are witnessing the rise of a new class of inverse heroes, that is, bureaucrats, bankers, Davos-attending members of the I.A.N.D (International Association of Name Droppers), and academics with too much power and no real downside and/or accountability. They game the system while citizens pay the price.”

If Taleb and Yarvin laid some of the theoretical groundwork for Trumpism, the most muscular and controversial case for electing him president—and the most unrelenting attack on Trump’s conservatives critics – came from Michael Anton, a onetime conservative intellectual writing under the pseudonym Publius Decius Mus.

Thanks to an entrée from Thiel, Anton now sits on the National Security Council. Initial reports indicated he would serve as a spokesman, but Anton is set to take on a policy role, according to a source with knowledge of the situation. A former speechwriter for Rudy Giuliani and George W. Bush’s National Security Council, Anton most recently worked as a managing director for Blackrock, the Wall Street investment firm."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

Neven

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1285 on: February 07, 2017, 04:16:32 PM »
Trump stressed that stronger U.S.- Russia ties could help defeat the Islamic State.

But “Putin’s a killer,” O’Reilly said.

“You got a lot of killers,” Trump shot back. “What, you think our country’s so innocent?”"

Good one. Trump gets a +1 for that, but still a loooooooot of -1s.  ;D

I just watched the entire interview with O'Reilly, and at the end he gets the Patriots prediction right too, which, given how things played out, is another +1.  :P
« Last Edit: February 07, 2017, 04:34:08 PM by Neven »
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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1286 on: February 07, 2017, 06:52:01 PM »
I was really surprised by that comment. I doubt he'll have many more +1's while in office, but at least he's not completely self-absorbed.

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1287 on: February 07, 2017, 06:58:12 PM »
Other media outlets finally starting to call Trump out DIRECTLY:



This is an ongoing path of a sociopath.  Again...it isn't that he is a sociopath that he will be removed from office.  It's because of all the things he does.....are done by him BECAUSE he is a sociopath.

The process continues....  Trump is one sick puppy.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2017, 11:14:11 PM by Buddy »
FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

budmantis

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1288 on: February 07, 2017, 07:03:58 PM »
Diary of a madman. By the way, Sean Spicer does look a lot like Melissa McCarthy.

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1289 on: February 07, 2017, 07:43:00 PM »
How many Trump aides does it take to turn on a light switch?

https://mic.com/articles/167690/donald-trump-white-house-light-switches#.HdrOQ4t6r
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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1290 on: February 07, 2017, 09:53:02 PM »
How many Trump aides does it take to turn on a light switch?
Just one, but he/she gets fired for she/he knows how something operates?

AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1291 on: February 07, 2017, 10:57:21 PM »
As many of the populist complaints have some substance (basically that the extant system has failed the common man), the real question is what to do about it?  I have previously cited why I think that the alt-right pseudo-populism will likely compound systemic problems via: 'othering', corruption, robbing Peter to pay Paul, authoritarianism, basing decisions on emotions, short-term thinking, etc.  Also, I have also critiqued 'small is beautiful' thinking, indicating that with a world population of at least 10 billion people by 2050, many of the simplistic 'small is beautiful' solutions will result in destruction of both the environment and socio-economic productivity.  Also I note that the more complicated versions of 'small is beautiful' tend towards the latest versions of the new and improved establishment capitalistic model announced at Davos 2017 including: Universal Basic Income, scalable enterprises, etc.; which the common man neither appreciates nor trusts.

However, I may not have yet given Bernie Sanders' populism a fair airing, so the following is a first shot that I hope others will contribute to:

(1) Bernie apparently is planning to use the Justice Democrats to implement a Tea-Party type takeover of the DNC.  However, this approach ignores the lesson that Trumpism high-jacked the true Tea Party takeover of the RNC, just as in the past Lenin high-jacked the leftist Marxist movement; and raises the risk that the Justice Democrats could fall victim to a charismatic crusader/savior type who may follow Bernie (as Bernie is getting older).  Leftist popular movements have a long history of following under the thrall of crusading strongmen like Hugo Chavez in Venezuela , who are no better than alt-right type strongmen like Ferdinand Marcos or Rodrigo Duterte of the Philippines.  If things deteriorate fast enough who is to say whether say a shadowy figure, say from 'Anonymous', might high-jack a leftist populist movement into a darker direction (ala V is for Vendetta).  In such a 'V' scenario, perhaps an alt-left organization like 'Anonymous' would portray Trump as the being at the center of a kleptocratic cabal and would reveal information from the 'dark-web' tying Trump to Putin's kleptocratic worldwide web (much as Wikileaks and the FBI did against HRC).  Possible in such a 'V' scenario the kleptocrats could be further linked to evidence of assassinations; mass starvations, and extant ecological disasters; much like Team Trump/Putin have vilified terrorists to make people sufficiently afraid to support the alt-left agenda/strongman.

Edit: see the linked article entitled: "Anonymous – Operation Resistance Engaged: Trump Told to Resign by Feb. 28"

http://anonhq.com/opresistance-engaged-trump-told-to-resign-by-feb-28/

(2) Alternately, such a Justice Democrats movement may fail to sustain its momentum like the 'Occupy' movement lost its movement until they rallied around Bernie's presidential campaign.  The need to maintain momentum in a political arena could cost a leftist populist movement some of its 'purity' (see item 1).

(3) The Justice Democrat movement will not only have to contend with the relatively deep pockets of the establishment Democrats but also the deep pockets of the establishment Republicans and the deep pockets of the alt-right pseudo-populism of Team Trump.  Thus, a quick across-the-board victory by the Justice Democrats is not likely (improbable) for several decades, and by then we will be likely in the grips of a socio-economic collapse.

(4) It is easy to criticize the 'system' when one is on the outside throwing rocks, but should the Justice Democrats manage to take control of either the DNC or a meaning part of the Federal government (executive and/or legislative) then they run the risk of being either absorbed by the 'system' while trying to take action in a highly corporate world, or alternately of being made ineffective or dysfunctional as many socialistic democracies in Europe have become.

If you are interested in my views of where we are likely all going, you can look at my various posts either in the 'Adapting to the Anthropocene' thread, at the following link:

http://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,1308.0.html

or expressed more pointedly (but also more esoterically) in the 'Systemic Isolation' thread, at the following link:

http://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,1578.0.html
« Last Edit: February 08, 2017, 04:39:52 PM by AbruptSLR »
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AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1292 on: February 07, 2017, 11:12:02 PM »
The linked article is entitled: "Trump hints: Maybe Russia isn’t really controlling the separatists fighting in Ukraine".  So now all that Trump needs to do to allow his buddy Putin to have his way with Ukraine is to tweet that Russia does not control the separatist forces (so when the separatist take over, Putin will have a nice puppet to control).

http://hotair.com/archives/2017/02/07/trump-hints-maybe-russia-isnt-really-controlling-the-separatists-fighting-in-ukraine/

Extract: "President Trump cast doubt on whether Moscow is backing separatists engaged in the recent escalation of fighting in eastern Ukraine, appearing to side with President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia, who has long denied involvement in the conflict despite evidence to the contrary.
Mr. Trump said he did not take offense at the outbreak of a lethal bout of fighting in Ukraine that came within a day of a phone conversation he had with Mr. Putin, saying of the recent clashes, “we don’t really know exactly what that is.”

“They’re pro-forces,” Mr. Trump said of the Ukrainian separatists in an interview that aired on Monday on “The O’Reilly Factor,” on Fox News. “We don’t know, are they uncontrollable? Are they uncontrolled? That happens also. We’re going to find out; I would be surprised, but we’ll see.”"
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1293 on: February 07, 2017, 11:24:23 PM »
The linked article is entitled: "Trump makes false statement about U.S. murder rate to sheriffs’ group".  If Trump can precondition law enforcement officers to accept alternate facts as being true, then he can apply pressure to anyone that he wants to point his finger at.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/true-crime/wp/2017/02/07/trump-makes-false-statement-about-u-s-murder-rate-to-sheriffs-group/?utm_term=.432281f31d4e

Extract: "Trump told the sheriffs, “the murder rate in our country is the highest it’s been in 47 years.” He blamed the news media for not publicizing this development, then added, “But the murder rate is the highest it’s been in, I guess, 45 to 47 years.”

The country’s murder rate is not the highest it’s been in 47 years. It is almost at its lowest point, actually, according to the FBI, which gathers statistics every year from police departments around the country."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

DrTskoul

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1294 on: February 08, 2017, 12:59:23 AM »
Because we do not need any stinking stream regulations....


Coal ash selenium found in fish in N.C. lakes


....Think those poor coal workers.. Which are the ones drinking thebpoluted water and dying without those regulations!

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1295 on: February 08, 2017, 06:01:36 AM »
There was debate in the Senate today in regards to Senator Sessions Atty. Gen'l confirmation. Senator Eliz. Warren spoke forcefully against confirming Sessions to the point when the majority leader, the infamous Sen. Mitch McConnell put a stop to it by citing rule 19, which was then backed up by Sen Steve Daines. The decision was put to a voice vote, with the Republicans winning 49 to 43. Understandably, the Democratic caucus is up in arms.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/senate-votes-to-silence-warren-after-speech-against-sessions/ar-AAmIxfj?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartandhp

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1296 on: February 08, 2017, 07:15:05 AM »
Leaks Suggest Trump’s Own Team Is Alarmed By His Conduct

Quote
WASHINGTON – President Donald Trump was confused about the dollar: Was it a strong one that’s good for the economy? Or a weak one?

So he made a call ― except not to any of the business leaders Trump brought into his administration or even to an old friend from his days in real estate. Instead, he called his national security adviser, retired Lt. Gen. Mike Flynn, according to two sources familiar with Flynn’s accounts of the incident.
Flynn has a long record in counterintelligence but not in macroeconomics. And he told Trump he didn’t know, that it wasn’t his area of expertise, that, perhaps, Trump should ask an economist instead.

Trump was not thrilled with that response ― but that may have been a function of the time of day. Trump had placed the call at 3 a.m., according to one of Flynn’s retellings ― although neither the White House nor Flynn’s office responded to requests for confirmation about that detail.

For Americans who based their impression of Trump on the competent and decisive tycoon he portrayed on his “Apprentice” TV reality shows, the portrait from these and many other tidbits emerging from his administration may seem a shock: an impulsive, sometimes petty chief executive more concerned with the adulation of the nation than the details of his own policies ― and quick to assign blame when things do not go his way.

Unsurprisingly, Trump’s volatile behavior has created an environment ripe for leaks from his executive agencies and even within his White House. And while leaks typically involve staffers sabotaging each other to improve their own standing or trying to scuttle policy ideas they find genuinely problematic, Trump’s 2-week-old administration has a third category: leaks from White House and agency officials alarmed by the president’s conduct.

“I’ve been in this town for 26 years. I have never seen anything like this,” said Eliot Cohen, a senior State Department official under President George W. Bush and a member of his National Security Council. “I genuinely do not think this is a mentally healthy president.”

Tick...tock

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1297 on: February 08, 2017, 08:16:36 AM »
The incident noted by budmantis will position Senator Warren as a leading if not the leading Dem voice in opposition to the GOP and Trump, despite her yes vote for HUD Secretary Carson.  It also plays into the extant real and perceived gender and civil rights hostility on open display by the GOP.  Senator Booker of NJ also was impressive in his remarks, and in invoking the words of Dr. King.  Warren/Booker 2020 will likely be a trending topic, and others to watch for the Dems are Jason Kander and Gavin Newsom.

The appellate court's decision later this week on Trump's Muslim ban will be front and center.  If the TRO is upheld, Trump has already signaled he will have the DOJ take this to the Supreme Court, where odds are in favor of a 4-4 split, leaving the lower court's decision in place.  A true Constitutional crisis would be sparked if the Executive Branch subverts the judiciary and has CBP enforce the ban.  If the TRO is stricken, it will set of more massive protests across the US and CBP will immediately resume enforcing the ban at the expense of harming innocent peoples' lives.  So either way, volatile times ahead on this topic.


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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1298 on: February 08, 2017, 02:35:47 PM »
Quote
Sen. Mitch McConnell put a stop to it by citing rule 19, which was then backed up by Sen Steve Daines. The decision was put to a voice vote, with the Republicans winning 49 to 43. Understandably, the Democratic caucus is up in arms.

Like pouring gas on a fire......bad move Mitch.

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1299 on: February 08, 2017, 03:28:58 PM »
The 9th circuit will IMO probably uphold the lower court overruling of the Trump immigration ban. The republicans will stall awhile until they invoke the nuclear option so they can get Gorsuch confirmed by a simple majority vote. Then they will again stall in anticipation of being able to put one more even more hard right judge on the Supreme Court. That should buy them a 6 / 3 conservative court that can outlive a democratic presidency if there is a voter backlash in four years. So liberalism on the court will be dead for at least 12 and maybe 16 years. That is what a vote for Clinton was intended to prevent.
 The Russian intervention that resulted in casting enough doubt on Clinton to get the bummed out
millennials to stay home or throw away their vote probably was the deciding factor. Without Wikileaks revealing the Democratic caucus undermining of Sanders this election ( again IMO ) would have gone differently.
 I think Clintons Syrian policy and deep state plans for a pipeline through some territories divided off a Syrian failed state and controlled by Kurds and a quasi democratic regime was probably what drove Russia to intervene . They won but now they have to figure out how to keep the batshit crazy republicans from whatever plans they can cook up to relieve the Middleeast of their remaining oil reserves.
 When this leads to the next war , or expands the current constant state of war, then the Republicans will need to figure out whether they really want Trump in control. He will have given them the Court they wanted and maybe his utility will have a short timeline. Pence seems a more likely war commander .
In the famous words of Country Joe" Woopee we all gonna die "