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Poll

Who are you going to vote for?

Clinton
31 (70.5%)
Johnson
2 (4.5%)
Stein
6 (13.6%)
Trump
1 (2.3%)
Not going to vote / going to spoil ballot
4 (9.1%)

Total Members Voted: 44

Voting closed: November 26, 2016, 07:11:49 AM

Author Topic: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")  (Read 205134 times)

meljay14

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1800 on: March 16, 2017, 07:53:12 AM »
So one would  think, Budmantis.

I guess I'd had plenty of warning that Trump would be a racist, sexist, xenophobic, self-serving, pants-on-fire climate change denying conman. But I hadn't thought he would shaft the elderly quite so nakedly.

It cannot even make sense from an economic perspective. Meals on Wheels is such an efficient way to keep old people a bit healthier, more independent, and with a bit of structure and companionship. If this goes through, it will be the trigger that sends thousands off to nursing homes sooner than they otherwise would need to go.

gerontocrat

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1801 on: March 16, 2017, 11:48:20 AM »
Methinks Trump must have been taking lessons from the UK government on how to shaft the most vulnerable. Being on the verge of three score years and ten and mentally fragile the future does not look bright.
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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1802 on: March 16, 2017, 02:36:45 PM »
I'm sure this one will be enjoyed:

DEVASTATING: TRUMP More Popular Than Democrats Says New Poll

! No longer available
Il faut cultiver notre jardin

budmantis

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1803 on: March 16, 2017, 04:42:22 PM »
And now for a little levity! HuffPost reports that McDonald's has issue an insulting tweet to President Trump. Apparently, the Corporation's twitter account had been compromised and the insult has now been removed.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/mcdonalds-twitter-calls-trump-tiny-handed-disgusting-excuse-of-a-president_us_58ca95c9e4b0be71dcf1de9d?plr7qkcvhgotdfgvi&

AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1804 on: March 16, 2017, 09:11:44 PM »
I'm sure this one will be enjoyed:

DEVASTATING: TRUMP More Popular Than Democrats Says New Poll


The linked article is entitled: "WATCH: Baby boomers, it’s all your fault!"; which suggests that it's not just the Democrats but the entire "Me Generation" (not just in America but around the world) that we have to thank for our current situation.  However, as I doubt that any party or generation is going adequately address our current challenges; I am still of the opinion that it is worthwhile thinking about what we can do now to help the generation that will follow the coming socio-economic collapse (circa 2045-2060).

http://www.salon.com/2017/03/15/watch-baby-boomers-its-all-your-fault/

Extract: "… his new book, “A Generation of Sociopaths: How the Baby Boomers Betrayed America,” came out earlier this month. In his book, Gibney claims that much of the generation born between 1946 and 1964 is selfish, lacking in empathy and financially irresponsible. Known as the “Me Generation,” the baby boomers have long been described as self-interested, but never in such damning terms.

“70 million Americans did appear to be sociopaths a few months ago [during the election],” said Gibney.

“To summarize, it’s ‘Me first and damn the consequences,'” he said. Gibney says a hallmark of the boomer is an inability to plan for the future, financially and otherwise. “They really just don’t save, and all these personal behaviors translate into international policy. Climate is another indicator of improvidence and lack of empathy — they don’t care really care about the environment, just about themselves.”"
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Buddy

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1805 on: March 16, 2017, 10:14:32 PM »
Only in Trump world does "wiretap" mean "surveillance."  I guess that "snow" must mean "precipitation of any kind" as well......and "apple" must mean "food of any kind"......and "basketball" means a sport of any kind.

Only in Trump world....... :)
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budmantis

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1806 on: March 17, 2017, 04:49:03 AM »
I'm sure this one will be enjoyed:

DEVASTATING: TRUMP More Popular Than Democrats Says New Poll

! No longer available


Hi Neven. I've given a lot of thought to your post and to the Jimmy Dore clip. I tried to find other polls to get a broader sampling but didn't find any. I did find a 3/16/17 poll by Rasmussen,

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/trump_administration/prez_track_mar16

but it doesn't change or refute the assertions made from the poll dated 3/10/17, used in your post. With all the flak the Republicans are receiving in regards to their efforts at repealing and replacing Obamacare, I was of the belief, and still do believe that the tide is turning against the Republicans. A lot of Republican congressmen and senators suspended their town hall meetings, another sign that the tide is turning, or so I'd like to think.

My U.S. Rep is a Republican who has had the courage to continue with the town meetings, and has earned my respect, though not necessarily my vote. It depends on how he ends up voting on key issues.

To me, the Democrats have a prime opportunity to win big in the elections of 2018 and 2020, if they do the right thing, which is changing the way they do business. Bernie got shafted last year and the Democrats deserved to lose the election. If they can shed their neoliberal ways and once again be the "peoples" party, I believe they can go far.

Unfortunately, I doubt that will happen, but even if it doesn't, I expect the Democrats to make some moderate gains in the next two elections. In spite of whatever happens in the next two elections, if the Democrats don't change, their long term viability is in question.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2017, 05:01:30 AM by budmantis »

budmantis

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1808 on: March 17, 2017, 07:41:30 AM »
In light of the ongoing debate between the ACA and the currently debated American Health Care Act, I'd like to add my personal experiences in negotiating the best "deal" for myself and my wife.

Back in 2013, my COBRA, known as Continuation of Benefits Rights Act, ended on 2/28/13. My wife and I could have had coverage which would have cost us over $13,000 before considering the deductibles and co-pays. Adding in the out of pocket expenses, the total cost of insurance would potentially have been over $25,000. With the beginning of the ACA starting in 2014, we decided to play the odds and forego coverage for the remainder of 2013. Two additional facts have to be considered in this complicated scenario. 1. I was diagnosed with Pulmonary Fibrosis in 2012, and 2. My wife had previously been diagnosed with Narcolepsy, and with the best medication being very expensive, we began to acquire that medication through Canada, by way of India, so it could be affordable.

Additionally, my wife could no longer work full time due to her problems and our attempts at securing social security disability did not bear fruit. Why am I spilling my guts here? To put it simply, the Affordable Care Act, also known as Obamacare, was a lifesaver for both my wife and I. We weathered 2013 without incident. My Pulmonary Fibrosis symptoms were ameliorated by a change in diet and the addition of supplements, which dealt with the inflammatory nature of the western diet, etc. Most of this information was obtained by my own research.

By November of 2014, I was now on Medicare, America's senior version of Universal Health Care, but my wife still relied on the ACA. This brings us to January of 2017. With all the talk of large premium increases in healthcare premiums in the ACA, my wife and I secured the best coverage she's ever enjoyed with a modest increase in premiums which resulted in better coverage and lower out of pocket expense than she had during the last two years of coverage with the ACA. Her narcolepsy medication which was previously obtained through India, is now costing us $25.00 for a ninety day supply! Her premium is $231.00 per month with a max deductible of $2200.00.

The reason I brought this all up is this, say what you want about Barack Obama's eight years in the White House, but without Obamacare, my life and my wife's life would have been far different. I spent the last eight years defending his administration with conservatives, I didn't expect to have to defend him amongst liberals. I realize more changes have to be made, but I appreciate what the ACA has done for us, and without Barack Obama, there would be no ACA!

« Last Edit: March 17, 2017, 08:10:53 AM by budmantis »

Joanna

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1809 on: March 17, 2017, 10:12:32 AM »
I thought I'd share my plan coverage under ACA since you did, budmantis.  I live in Oregon and am in my 40s.  I'm self employed so I use ACA to obtain insurance.  I was uninsured for many years prior.  My 2016 premiums were $364 per month with a $1000 deductible for a Gold Plan.  For 2017, the insurance company wanted to switch me to a Silver plan for a lot more money.  The most similar Gold plan (which was not even as good), went up to a premium of $535, a 47% increase.   Instead, I opted for the Bronze plan with a $6000 deductible and a premium of $296.  Now I have to hope that I don't get sick because that deductible is unaffordable.  Personally, I'm not happy with ACA.

DrTskoul

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1810 on: March 17, 2017, 10:17:50 AM »
Bud... perfect is always the enemy of good. We can never be satisfied with something that works good enough for now.. given the mix of politics in this country ACA was the best possible at that time. Look what is expected now...
“You can know the name of a bird in all the languages of the world, but when you're finished, you'll know absolutely nothing whatever about the bird... So let's look at the bird and see what it's doing -- that's what counts.”
― Richard P. Feynman

Buddy

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1811 on: March 17, 2017, 12:15:28 PM »
The US....like EVERY OTHER western country.....will eventually go to a universal healthcare system.  I spent 10 years in healthcare....its broken, and the incentives and disincentives that work in most businesses.....do NOT work in healthcare, where the incentives SHOULD BE TO KEEP YOU OUT OF THE HOSPITAL AND GET PEOPLE HEALTHIER SO THEY DON'T NEED TO GO INTO THE HOSPITAL IN THE FIRST PLACE.  I could speak for months on this...but I won't, except to say that DonnieCare may be the straw that broke the camels back.  And maybe WITHIN 5 years..we can move towards universal healthcare.

Donnie's budget is probably going to gain him as much strength in the polls as outlawing chocolate. ;)  Folks are NOT going to like his budget.

By the way.....I heard  Mika Brzezinski this morning refer to "President Bannon and Donald Trump" I about fell out of my chair.  Yes....the movement in the press continues.

The daily press conference yesterday was a "tad" contentious.  That's what happens when "Spicey" has to continually run out and lie for Donnie.  And yes....Donnie has now doubled down on his lies.  There is NO TELLING A SOCIOPATH HE IS LYING.  He has NO IDEA where the truth is.

This week will certainly jar several more Republicans to realize that "Houston.....we have a problem."  I wonder when the banter in the press will move to "is he mentally ill"?  It IS heading there.  And Donnie will likely be the one to move that thought process along as he continues to implode and make bad decisions.

Wait till the headlines in home newspapers read:  "Trump golf weekends rather than meals on wheels."  Think that will do his polls any good?  Me neither.....

What about this:  "State Dept spending cut more than 30% because we're fighting less wars......defense spending incrased more than 10% because.....just in case?"

So let's take a step back and look where we are:

1)  Russian investigations continue to go forward.....and we are LIKELY to be getting more news in the coming 4 days....and from the look of Diane Feinstein and Chuck Grassley....it VERY LIKELY will "move the needle".

https://www.rawstory.com/2017/03/senate-intel-leaders-feinstein-and-grassley-grim-and-silent-after-trump-russia-briefings-with-comey/

That ISN'T the look of....."gee, you have just won the lottery." :)

2)  DonnieCare:   Not exactly getting 5 stars from the critics.  Some of his base is NOT going to be thrilled.....just like a lot of other people in rural America.

3)  Budget:  Again....NOT going to produce good headlines for Donnie.  His budget is likely to lose him more ground in the polls.

So Donnie has at least 3 things going AGAINST HIM.  Four...if you count all the golfing he continues to do.  He has NO CLUE how bad that looks.

I'll be looking for polls to be into the mid 30's by the end of next week.....which would be an all-time low for Donnie (38 is the lowest he has been so far).

I hope Donnie is going to enjoy his golfing this weekend.....because he has a LONG LONELY ROAD AHEAD OF HIM.....  Maybe he will be comforted to find out that Mike Pence might be joining him.  That lying VP is also going to be in hot water.....

It is clear to me that President Bannon and Donnie have some seriously bad times ahead.....as do many in his inner circle.  Again....keep your eyes peeled on Mattis in coming months.  He is important because he is the ONE GROWNUP in the room.  If he were to get into a "head to head" battle with Trump over things.......he could jettison and THAT would push the panic button for many Republicans in both the Senate and the House.  We're not close to that yet....but that is a VERY REAL POSSIBILITY down the road.





FOX (TASS) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

Buddy

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1812 on: March 17, 2017, 12:23:40 PM »
So Donnie has at least 3 things going AGAINST HIM.  Four...if you count all the golfing he continues to do.  He has NO CLUE how bad that looks.

Oh yea.  How could I forget?  He has FOUR things working against him (not including his golf):

4)  GLOBAL WARMING

This will likely sink Donnie's ship.  Maybe that is appropriate.  Ice levels never been this low before......more record highs and possible huge wildfires this year in Russia or elsewhere.

And this is an area that Mattis STRONGLY disagrees with President Bannon and Donald Trump.

« Last Edit: March 17, 2017, 02:21:28 PM by Buddy »
FOX (TASS) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

Buddy

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1813 on: March 17, 2017, 12:30:40 PM »
"Watchdog Calls On NY Attorney General To Probe Foreign Funds In Trump Organization."

Hmmmmmmmm.....I wonder where they could find a good prosecutor with information on Trump....?


https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/new-york-federal-prosecutor-preet-bharara-has-not-submitted-resignation/2017/03/11/39163292-067a-11e7-ad5b-d22680e18d10_story.html?utm_term=.3f20b4ae8e66
FOX (TASS) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

Buddy

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1814 on: March 17, 2017, 04:26:23 PM »
If anyone is still wondering in amazement as to how Trump actually got people TO VOTE FOR HIM.....you need only look to FOX News.  You see.....there are actually a lot of people that still think FOX is a NEW CHANNEL.  I know....shocking.  Ridiculous.....but true.  They really BELIEVE some of the crap that comes out of the mouths of O'Reilly, Hannity, Dobbs, and other idiots (you too Napolitano).

Now....Lou Dobbs and others are noting that Obama is vacationing in Hawaii at the same time that that Trump's travel ban was being disallowed by a judge in Hawaii.  A judge that Obama went to law school with.

Oh....the scandals.  First Obama taps Trump's phones......he likely hears about the travel ban....and he jets off to Hawaii for a "vacation" so he can talk the judge into putting a temporary stay order on that travel ban.

That Obama.....he is one stealthy dude.... ;)

And you folks in Europe need to stop laughing at us. ;)  If I were a European I would be thinking:  "How in the F*** can those idiots in the United States beat us in ANYTHING.....industry, sports, ANYTHIING....when they have people who would actually be STUPID ENOUGH TO VOTE FOR TRUMP?

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2017/03/16/right_wing_journalists_ask_the_big_questions_what_is_hawaii_native_barack.html
FOX (TASS) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

budmantis

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1815 on: March 17, 2017, 05:22:40 PM »
I thought I'd share my plan coverage under ACA since you did, budmantis.  I live in Oregon and am in my 40s.  I'm self employed so I use ACA to obtain insurance.  I was uninsured for many years prior.  My 2016 premiums were $364 per month with a $1000 deductible for a Gold Plan.  For 2017, the insurance company wanted to switch me to a Silver plan for a lot more money.  The most similar Gold plan (which was not even as good), went up to a premium of $535, a 47% increase.   Instead, I opted for the Bronze plan with a $6000 deductible and a premium of $296.  Now I have to hope that I don't get sick because that deductible is unaffordable.  Personally, I'm not happy with ACA.

Thanks for sharing you're experience Joanna and welcome to the Forum! In the interest of full disclosure, my wife is now 62 and because of that, she does get additional help. She had a bronze plan last year with a $6,000.00 deductible. The premium was a little over $100 per month.  That very same plan for this year would have resulted in a premium increase of over 100%.

Because of the extra help provision, she was able to get a silver plan that I mentioned in my previous post. I'm sorry to hear of you're experience and it's clear that a lot more has to be done to make healthcare affordable. As Buddy mentioned, it's going to take universal health care to solve the problem and I am in full agreement with that.

As Dr. Tskoul  mentioned in his post, the ACA was the best that could be obtained at the time. Despite your premium increase and the high deductible, the alternative would be even worse.
Back in 2012 when I had health problems in relation to pulmonary fibrosis, my health plan at the time had high deductibles. I incurred several thousand dollars in medical expenses, but was able to negotiate the cost down by 35% almost across the board.

 
« Last Edit: March 17, 2017, 05:35:26 PM by budmantis »

budmantis

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1816 on: March 17, 2017, 05:49:41 PM »

Donnie's budget is probably going to gain him as much strength in the polls as outlawing chocolate. ;)  Folks are NOT going to like his budget.

By the way.....I heard  Mika Brzezinski this morning refer to "President Bannon and Donald Trump" I about fell out of my chair.  Yes....the movement in the press continues.


Both those lines are very funny Buddy. This morning I listened on NPR about one of their reporter's speaking to some folks in Tampa, asking what they thought of Donald Trump. The only comment I remember was to the effect that if everyone would get out of his way and let him do his job, he'll probably be remembered as one of the best Presidents in the history of our country!

Buddy

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1817 on: March 17, 2017, 06:15:16 PM »
The only comment I remember was to the effect that if everyone would get out of his way and let him do his job, he'll probably be remembered as one of the best Presidents in the history of our country!


Absolutely....there are people who swear by him.  Here is a Tennessee women who thanks Trumpcare and God for lowering her cost for her sons insurance.  Problem is....Trumpcare hasn't done ANYTHING to her son's insurance.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2017/03/17/1644556/-Clueless-woman-thanks-God-and-Trumpcare-for-lower-health-care-costs-under-Obama

Maybe you have read of....or remember "Pastor Jimmy Jones".  Some people....on EITHER SIDE OF THE AISLE....will believe ANYTHING.  Many of them, through no fault of their own.  They don't have time to do any "due diligence"....or "fact checking."  They just want things FIXED.

And that...is what Trump has taped into.  Unfortunately....Trump is a fraud.  A fake.  A phony.  A con man.  He is not Bernie Sanders........or a Republican version of Bernie Sanders.

As long as he can con enough of the electorate....and keep his poll numbers from dipping down into the 30ish area or BELOW.....then he will be "OK".

But the press is on to him.  Even Shep Smith is tired of his lying.  Trump has a strong CORE of supporters:  Those who don't know better......and those who do know better but profit from him.  As long as he can keep enough of those groups.....then he can weather a lot.

Time will tell.  And I expect Donnie to continue what Donnie has always done:  Continue to lie....and continue to look after Donnie.  I expect the house of cards to fall....but it could take till NEXT SUMMER some time.

The truth never goes away.....it just waits for people to discover it.

 

FOX (TASS) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

pileus

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1818 on: March 17, 2017, 07:29:37 PM »
To me, the Democrats have a prime opportunity to win big in the elections of 2018 and 2020, if they do the right thing, which is changing the way they do business. Bernie got shafted last year and the Democrats deserved to lose the election. If they can shed their neoliberal ways and once again be the "peoples" party, I believe they can go far.

Unfortunately, I doubt that will happen, but even if it doesn't, I expect the Democrats to make some moderate gains in the next two elections. In spite of whatever happens in the next two elections, if the Democrats don't change, their long term viability is in question.

So we are still litigating the treatment of poor Bernie Sanders by the DNC.

Bernie Sanders, Independent Senator from Vermont, lost because:

> he failed to generate sufficient support during the Democratic primaries
> he received less votes than Secretary Clinton

The American people spoke, and they said "No" to Bernie Sanders.

But Bernie "got the shaft", and the Democrats deserved to lose the election?  Clinton finished +3 million in the popular vote, Democrats picked up seats in both the House and the Senate.  By these metrics, Dems performed well in the federal elections, but clearly not good enough to overcome the structural framework and rules of the electoral process.

But yes, the GOP is rightfully seen as victorious by retaking the Presidency, and continuing to maintain the majority in Congress.  And totally agree, Dems are in position to make gains in 2018 and 2020.

Dems not the "people's party"?  Just look at the Republican health care bill, Trump's budget, and everything else coming out of the GOP Congress and White House if you want to determine who is not representing the American people.
 

TerryM

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1819 on: March 17, 2017, 08:45:17 PM »
Am I alone in thinking that Trump's win says something about the viability of America's much heralded system of democracy?


The US, UK, Canada, and a few others are locked into "first past the post" elections, where the winner takes all, & coming in second just means that you lost. There is a group in Canada agitating for proportional representation, but I doubt that those who won under a particular scheme would willingly change the rules that brought them to power.


We used to laugh at the absurdity of single party systems that purported to represent the peoples will, but perhaps two party governance should also face some scrutiny.


In the last election I would have favored the peace candidate who recognized the dangers of global warming and was concerned about growing inequality. Here in Canada this would have probably meant a vote for the NDP candidate.


Unfortunately, in the US there is no party that offers such a platform. Since there are only two parties to choose from that have any chance of winning, almost every voter makes a compromise and votes for whomever he believes will be least destructive to his wants.


Honesty while campaigning is another gripe I have. We demand honesty in business, expect it in interpersonal relationships, yet expect politicians to lie to us. If a perspective employee was found to have been less than truthful when applying for a job, we'd rid ourselves of him in short order. If an employer promised one wage, then paid less, we'd be out the door. When a politician promises "No new taxes", just before raising them, we understand that it was just campaign rhetoric.


As long as Americans accept a first past the post duopoly, with no penalty for political lies, they will probably need to learn to live with the results.


http://www.wisdomwordsppf.org/2016/12/23/governance-time-to-question-our-two-party-system/


Terry


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In the most recent Canadian election I voted for the Liberal candidate, believing him to be the most likely to oust the hated Conservatives. In past elections I voted for whichever candidate had the best chance of winning against my local Conservative incumbent. Next cycle I'll probably vote my conscience and campaign for the Green Party or the NDP. We have multiple parties, but are stuck with a first past the post system.

meljay14

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1820 on: March 17, 2017, 10:51:37 PM »
Terry, here in Australia we have the preferential system, which is not perfect but does allow us to vote 1 for our preferred party, even if they have little chance of winning, (or even for several such parties) and our "preference" then eventually spills down  to whichever of the two major parties we regard as the lesser of two evils.

We don't have the risk, as in the US, of helping to elect Trump by voting Green.

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1821 on: March 18, 2017, 04:55:40 AM »
In answer to your post Pileus, I do believe Bernie Sanders was unfairly treated by the DNC, even though Hillary Clinton won the nomination. Would the outcome have been closer if Bernie was fairly treated? Certainly. Would he have won, I don't know, but I tend to think Clinton would have won with a slight edge over him.

I do believe the Democrats would have had more success in the general election with Bernie as nominee. The very modest gains the Democrats made in the House and Senate would have been considerably larger with a possible majority in the Senate.

I will say that I'd be much happier right now if Hillary was President, rather than Donald Trump, but you've got to ask yourself, how could she have lost to such an ignoramus in the first place? Sure she won the popular vote, but the "Doofus in chief" is sitting in the oval office!

Buddy

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1822 on: March 18, 2017, 05:28:47 PM »
No wonder Trump and Merkel didn't get along so well.  She isn't a Nazi.  Apparently Trump has a soft spot for Nazi's....

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/sebastian-gorka-vitezi-rend-david-irving_us_58cc5d3ee4b00705db4faa3e?yib&
FOX (TASS) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

Jim Hunt

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1823 on: March 18, 2017, 05:46:02 PM »
My good friend Alice F. has just tweeted @POTUS:

https://twitter.com/AF_Wetware/status/843137734692749313

Any chance of a "retweet" or three?
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1824 on: March 18, 2017, 07:01:54 PM »
The linked article was written by a neuroscientist/psychologist and is entitled: "What Are You, A Sociopath? The Lack Of A Conscience In The GOP Agenda", and it raises the question of whether the GOP's agenda to take advantage of 'others' is sociopathic.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/what-are-you-a-sociopath-the-lack-of-conscience-in_us_58c2f6a1e4b0a797c1d39c38

Extract: "F*cking each other over for a percentage should be the official theme of the first 50 days of the Trump administration with the enabling GOP-controlled Congress.

F*cking over for a percentage can also be described, in psychological terms, as an act of guiltlessness, sociopathy, anti-social personality, and/or the lack of a conscience. Not surprisingly, the lack of a conscience is associated with increasing degrees of power and wealth. Whether or not Trump, members of his Administration, or GOP Congressional members are actually sociopaths or playing sociopaths is difficult to determine as an observer who only has access to their public behaviors.

But the question continues to be asked, in light of everything that we have seen over the past 50 days and most notably this week with Trumpcare:

How do these individuals sleep at night/live with themselves/appear guilt-free as they seek to strip rights, personal safety, health, and human services from We the People?

The lies and deceit to which we have been exposed in 50 days may not necessarily be unique to this presidency. However, what appears to be unique and unsettling is the frequency of lies, the mean-spiritedness and tenacity with which the lies are repeated, and the apparent lack of a conscience that comes with telling millions of people that what they believe they are seeing, hearing, and feeling is not reality."
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budmantis

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1825 on: March 19, 2017, 12:48:47 AM »
Alas, a Trump voter sees the light!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/one-direction-singer-says-trump-once-kicked-band-out-of-hotel-for-not-meeting-his-daughter_us_58cd672be4b0ec9d29dc8348?qr2pctrl3o1mm42t9&ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009

In this article, Trump supporter Linda Preast finds out her meals on wheels may be cut. In answer she said "I was under the influence that he was going to help us".

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1826 on: March 19, 2017, 01:19:07 AM »
My husband has a good friend who voted for Trump, when he really should have known better, and I've been trying to articulate, avoiding partisanship (because our political leanings are very different), why I think Trump is such a huge problem and danger, and I've distilled it down to this:-

Trump has no mechanism for learning.

And I don't care who you are or or what your politics are or what task or job you're trying to perform - whether you're a doctor or a sales professional or a babysitter or the president of the USA - if you don't have that, then you're a disaster.

And he doesn't have it.

He doesn't read, so he can't educate himself. He doesn't have the perception or patience to listen to guidance and summaries from genuine experts, or to do his own careful analysis. He doesn't have the humility to say to anyone, (other than, possibly, his inner coterie of family and advisers) "I'm out of my depth, you have the deeper understanding, what should we do here?"

I wonder if this argument could reach some of his supporters? (I haven't tried it on my husband's friend yet.)

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1827 on: March 19, 2017, 01:47:11 AM »
Right on the money mel!!
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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1828 on: March 19, 2017, 02:14:16 AM »
I agree with meljay14

Socrates said "I know one thing; that I know nothing". Trump thinks he knows everything.

I am an energy reservoir seemingly intent on lowering entropy for self preservation.

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1829 on: March 19, 2017, 06:24:19 AM »
Hubris....
“You can know the name of a bird in all the languages of the world, but when you're finished, you'll know absolutely nothing whatever about the bird... So let's look at the bird and see what it's doing -- that's what counts.”
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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1830 on: March 19, 2017, 04:38:49 PM »
FOX (TASS) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1831 on: March 19, 2017, 05:48:27 PM »
Probably should go into empire, but
1.  I did not pay taxes to US govt and therefore did not pay for nuclear weapons  when running homeless shelters
2.  I did not pay taxes to US govt when living and working with L'Arche Mobile Alabama
3.  I did and do not pay taxes to US govt when living and working with L'Arche Winnipeg in Canada.
4.  I have been voting against Rep. Steve King of Iowa via mail.  He is one very hard core racist. 

Yes, Trump is some sort of lethally evil mutant "son of a" windigo or golem - but for me, it was Obama who has been the worst in decades when it came to nuclear proliferation. 

For me reading the following was a good review and a distillation of my opinions about Obama's legacy and now Mr. Trump. Some of the more strident phrases against Obama are not as far as I would go however. 

http://www.counterpunch.org/2017/03/17/not-the-end-of-the-world-trump-and-the-presidency-in-perspective/

For me, the thing that bothers me the most about Trump is his back-pedalling on certain issues, abortion, etc. etc.  I remember once at church (Martin Luther on Dr. Martin Luther KIng Jr. Ave in Mobile Al).  I was the only caucasian member, it was the closest ELCA (moderate Lutheran) church to where I lived and I was very welcome. 39 y.o. Rev. Dianne who was AWESOME had recently died.  The 80 year old bench minister was quite good.  Ex. Governor George Wallace of Alabama who ran for U.S.  president on a very racist platform had just died recently also.  The pastor 2/3rds the way through the sermon started talking about forgiveness as a policy and talking about Wallaces run for the presidency.  Hairs were going up on everyones necks and the  stunned silence seemed deafening.  My initial thought was, no, it is not time yet, it was "Guv." Wallace's choice, not his belief to embrace racism after his first loses in the 1940's. 

However it was soon after that I was able to let out an "Amen, Henry Wallace, 1948 Henry Wallace of Iowa." The vice president for 8 years under F.D. Rooseveldt ran for President with a policy of detente  or living with the Soviet Union in 1948.  Everyone breathed and the hairs on peoples necks went down. People still remembered H. Wallace or their parents had talked about him.  Henry was anti-racist all his life.  (Myself, I had worked in the Henry Wallace builiding in a lab in the basement for 5 years). 

My rambling point is, that educated people who have been under repression often will despise and detest longer the actions of people who chose to align themselves with evil as opposed to people who start with and continue with it.  That for me is crucial to me for the flavour of my detest of Trump.  And Wallace and Trump have a similar flavour.  No, for true evil you have to go to the likes of George Wallaces running mate, General Curtis LeMay (especially the dams in Northern Korea which he said may have been 1 million civilians drowned) and Jefferson Beauregard Davis Sessions Jr. the US attorney general 

Obama, in the end, my belief is that he did not want to get shot like MLK Jr. or JFK. 

It is not what happens in the world - it is where you place your feet in every step and the direction of your heart. 

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1832 on: March 19, 2017, 06:12:04 PM »
There we go.....that's a better looking chart for my favorite racist, egotistical, idiotic president in US history:

37% Approve....58% Disapprove.  Worst poll since he began staying at the White House.... ;)

The Gallup poll comes out EVERY DAY at 1:00 EST (including Sunday's....I'm sure Donnie will look at it after he goes to church.... ;)

http://www.gallup.com/poll/201617/gallup-daily-trump-job-approval.aspx

We still have a LONG WAYS for the process to play out.  But Donnie boy is on the right track... ::)
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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1833 on: March 19, 2017, 06:17:34 PM »
And since it is SUCH a pretty graphic.....why not post the picture itself:

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1834 on: March 19, 2017, 06:46:13 PM »
So.....how many more weeks of bad polls before Donnie starts "shit-canning" some of his folks?  I mean....CLEARLY the bad polls aren't Donnie's fault....just ask Donnie.  He's "fabulous." ;)

I think Reince is at the top of list......Sessions is up there.....and Spicey (Donnie HAS to fire the messenger).

They are coming....in due time.

And don't forget....Donnie is looking for a confrontation to help his poll numbers.  April is just around the corner....and I think we'll have a confrontation before the end of April of SOME TYPE.

FOX (TASS) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1835 on: March 19, 2017, 07:15:41 PM »
And since it is SUCH a pretty graphic.....why not post the picture itself:

this should about have been the outcome of the election, no clue what (probably nothing) people think when they vote and it's not US only, looking at hungary, poland, turkey and the likes.

not that i'm believing in the old man with the beard but still it is as jesus said, they don't know what they're doing" only that i do not see this as an excuse but more as an accusation. people should start to use their brain for other things than saving 5% on their next purchase and find the best way to screw their "friends" wife.
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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1836 on: March 19, 2017, 07:37:30 PM »
this should about have been the outcome of the election, no clue what (probably nothing) people think when they vote


They vote for what they WANT the person to do.  Not what they really THINK he will do.  They (we humans) don't really deal in a reality much of the time.  We deal in hope.

It's like when a guy dates a girl.  We (guys) have a tendency to read into WHAT WE WANT TO THINK the girl is thinking about us.....rather than REALLY OBSERVING what she is saying, how she is saying it, and drawing a conclusion from those REAL OBSERVATIONS.

Same is true of global warming......or the ice melt.   There are a LOT of people that DON'T WANT the ice to go down....so they WANT TO BELIEVE the folks that are lying to them (they don't KNOW that FOX is lying to them).  That is why....I believe....it is important to be A DISCIPLINED OBSERVER IN LIFE.

Speaking of relationships.....I wonder what this guy's wife is thinking right now:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/athlete-thanks-wife-and-girlfriend_us_58cea338e4b0be71dcf57af5?h8&
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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1837 on: March 19, 2017, 10:07:04 PM »
this should about have been the outcome of the election, no clue what (probably nothing) people think when they vote


They vote for what they WANT the person to do.  Not what they really THINK he will do.  They (we humans) don't really deal in a reality much of the time.  We deal in hope.

It's like when a guy dates a girl.  We (guys) have a tendency to read into WHAT WE WANT TO THINK the girl is thinking about us.....rather than REALLY OBSERVING what she is saying, how she is saying it, and drawing a conclusion from those REAL OBSERVATIONS.

Same is true of global warming......or the ice melt.   There are a LOT of people that DON'T WANT the ice to go down....so they WANT TO BELIEVE the folks that are lying to them (they don't KNOW that FOX is lying to them).  That is why....I believe....it is important to be A DISCIPLINED OBSERVER IN LIFE.

Speaking of relationships.....I wonder what this guy's wife is thinking right now:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/athlete-thanks-wife-and-girlfriend_us_58cea338e4b0be71dcf57af5?h8&


sure :-)

for many years a ponder of a phenomenon that does not make sense to me while it's common. how can people elect a person as their leader, especially those people where such a person is given big power, on a day to day basis. i.e. if i find a person suitable i can of course say that one or another move was great or not after my gusto but i would never ever change my mind from day to day or week to week depending on media headlines or similar. if the person is good he/she is allowed to make mistakes and as well opt for things i think different.

what i'm trying to say is that if the motives to elect a leader are wrong or shortsighted the outcome can't be good except by accident :-)

for many years i'm pondering over solutions and at the end i always end up with IQ or similar criteria based voting rights. something like a "voting license" everyone would have to pass some kind of test to achieve voting rights while the test cannot be related to any topics but only to brainpower.

i mean if the majority is stupid how can we believe that the system will work in the long run. and the majority is stupid (average at best) and the system (democracy) is struggling increasingly and it has to be fine tuned. i only doubt that this will happen without bloodshed on a large scale as it has most of the time if not always been in the past.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2017, 10:15:28 PM by magnamentis »
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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1838 on: March 20, 2017, 10:28:07 AM »

for many years i'm pondering over solutions and at the end i always end up with IQ or similar criteria based voting rights. something like a "voting license" everyone would have to pass some kind of test to achieve voting rights while the test cannot be related to any topics but only to brainpower.

i mean if the majority is stupid how can we believe that the system will work in the long run. and the majority is stupid (average at best) and the system (democracy) is struggling increasingly and it has to be fine tuned. i only doubt that this will happen without bloodshed on a large scale as it has most of the time if not always been in the past.


My favorite scheme was to have individual IQ tests administered prior to voting. The vote would be proportional to how far from the median their IQ score was, with those scoring below 100 counted as negative votes against their chosen candidate. The voter would never know how his IQ or vote was scored.
Years later, after involvement in Mensa politics, I changed my mind. The very bright tend to people the extremes of the political spectrum. Very few moderates are found. One of my larger shocks was discovering that all really smart people didn't agree with my politics.


While an Inteleocracy might sound wonderful, I fear the reality wouldn't satisfy many.


Terry




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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1839 on: March 20, 2017, 11:02:08 AM »
I agree with Terry.  There is no correlation between IQ and ethical and compassionate behaviors, or common sence.  In some cases there is an anti-correlation.
“You can know the name of a bird in all the languages of the world, but when you're finished, you'll know absolutely nothing whatever about the bird... So let's look at the bird and see what it's doing -- that's what counts.”
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Buddy

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1840 on: March 20, 2017, 12:18:47 PM »
Some random thoughts:

1)  Donnie's poll numbers IN ONE WEEK.....from 03-11-2017 to 03-18-2017......went from Approve/Disapprove of 45/49.....to 37/58.  The spread went from 4% difference to 21% difference.....IN ONE FRIGGING WEEK. THAT....is gobsmacking.  An increase in the "spread" of 17% in one week.

2)  Everyone should encourage Donnie to keep going to Mara Lago.  Please....play more golf.  Spend more stupid money.  Please keep looking like an insensitive pig.  Why don't you send your family on an expensive ski vacation to Aspen while you're at it?  OH....you already did that....my bad.  Some people JUST DON'T GET IT.  Playing golf each weekend and sending your family to Aspen....while cutting meals on wheels IS NOT THE RIGHT THING TO DO...ETHICALLY. 

3)  Looking back at history.....the "Watergate Hearings" started on May 17, 1973....but keep in mind this was AFTER a special prosecutor had already been selected.  I'm sure there were likely subcommittee meetings and the such leading UP to that point.  Which means we are likely "about on the same course" as the Watergate scandal as of right now.  If the subcommittee meetings become too political.....or if enough issues come up....we're likely heading to an independent prosecutor.  And that process would likely not start until 2 or 3 months from now.

4)  Sorry....I can't get POINT 1 ABOVE OUT OF MY HEAD17 points difference in spread in one week.....  Clearly that RATE will not continue.  But the three big things to wear on Donnie's team in coming weeks is the constant barrage of RussiaGate AND BUDGET.......AND.......TRUMPCARE.  Add in an obviously deteriorating global warming........and you have a pretty nasty witches brew of bad press coming for Donnie over the NEXT 6 MONTHS. If we are in the middle of TrumpGate hearings.......AND....the Arctic ice sheet is 10% or more BELOW record low levels......Donnie's poll numbers will be in the "proverbial shitter."

He becomes toxic if his approval rating is in the mid 20's.  If he gets down to 20.....the only people who will play golf with him are Chris Cristy and Jeff Sessions.....

Those levels are likely coming....although it will take a long time to get there.  I have confidence in Donnie's incompetence....I KNOW he can do it.



 
FOX (TASS) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

Buddy

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1841 on: March 20, 2017, 12:25:35 PM »
FOX (TASS) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

Buddy

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1842 on: March 20, 2017, 12:45:46 PM »
If you only read one article today....THIS is the one:

"White House installs political aides in Cabinet agencies to be Trump's eyes and ears."


https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/white-house-installs-political-aides-at-cabinet-agencies-to-be-trumps-eyes-and-ears/2017/03/19/68419f0e-08da-11e7-93dc-00f9bdd74ed1_story.html?tid=sm_tw&utm_term=.81c4c683e6c5

A real sociopath at work....

FOX (TASS) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1843 on: March 20, 2017, 01:16:06 PM »
If you only read one article today....THIS is the one:

"White House installs political aides in Cabinet agencies to be Trump's eyes and ears."


https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/white-house-installs-political-aides-at-cabinet-agencies-to-be-trumps-eyes-and-ears/2017/03/19/68419f0e-08da-11e7-93dc-00f9bdd74ed1_story.html?tid=sm_tw&utm_term=.81c4c683e6c5

A real sociopath at work....

Politburo
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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1844 on: March 20, 2017, 05:50:12 PM »
I'm checking out the "Daily Matinee" which is the Comey questioning with the US House Of Representatives subcommittee.

US Representative Carson from Indiana (D) and others are painting a pretty clear picture.....and trying to "connect the dots."

Donnie is NOT going to like this matinee.  It will not help his poll numbers as well......

The trouble with the hearings.....is that the public can't get away from them.  They are EVERYWHERE....on EVERY CHANNEL (even FOX :o).

This is probably not going to give Donnie a boost in his poll numbers. ;)
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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1845 on: March 20, 2017, 05:58:10 PM »
The linked article is entitled: "Stephen Hawking has advice for Trump, and it starts with changing EPA leadership".

http://mashable.com/2017/03/19/stephen-hawking-trump-science-immigration/#zOXDKoTVkmql

Extract: ""Climate change is one of the great dangers we face, and it's one we can prevent," said Hawking, according to the Guardian. "It affects America badly, so tackling it should win votes for his [Trump's] second term. God forbid."

Hawking also suggested that Trump should, "replace Scott Pruitt at the Environment Protection Agency [EPA]." Pruitt, who has sued the organisation in the past over environmental issues, was a controversial choice to lead the EPA, with current and former staffers protesting his selection."

See also:

http://www.ibtimes.com/stephen-hawking-slams-donald-trump-british-physicist-says-america-needs-tackle-2511138
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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1846 on: March 20, 2017, 06:27:01 PM »
The linked article is entitled: "The climate change battle dividing Trump’s America", and it discusses how US scientists are planning to fight back against many of Team Trump's initiatives regarding evidence based climate science.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2017/mar/18/the-scientists-taking-the-fight-to-trump-climate-change-epa

Extract: "Ever since Donald Trump became US president, certain sectors of American society have felt particularly embattled. His statements on Mexicans and Muslims are notorious, but there is another community, less heard about, that has also been sent reeling: scientists.

Trump should beware. The scientific revolution starts here."
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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1847 on: March 20, 2017, 08:12:19 PM »
I agree with Terry.  There is no correlation between IQ and ethical and compassionate behaviors, or common sence.  In some cases there is an anti-correlation.


Common sense is what IQ tests are designed to measure, so there is a very strong relationship there. Income and wealth are odd in that there is a positive relationship up to 2 statistical deviations above normal, then a strong negative correlation.


As far as governance, I've wondered if the old Chinese model of meritocracy through strong, tested examinations at every level of civil service might have merit. The Grand Poo Bah might be deranged, but his orders were carried out by professionals capable of tweaking things until a reasonable result might be expected.


Terry

DrTskoul

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1848 on: March 20, 2017, 11:50:03 PM »
I agree with Terry.  There is no correlation between IQ and ethical and compassionate behaviors, or common sence.  In some cases there is an anti-correlation.


Common sense is what IQ tests are designed to measure, so there is a very strong relationship there. Income and wealth are odd in that there is a positive relationship up to 2 statistical deviations above normal, then a strong negative correlation.


As far as governance, I've wondered if the old Chinese model of meritocracy through strong, tested examinations at every level of civil service might have merit. The Grand Poo Bah might be deranged, but his orders were carried out by professionals capable of tweaking things until a reasonable result might be expected.


Terry

I have seen examples of very high IQ with inability to relate to other human beings. I don't know which IQ tests you refer to, but most of the ones I have taken don't seem to relate to common sense.
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Chuck Yokota

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1849 on: March 21, 2017, 01:45:22 AM »
I have no words to describe this . . .

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/03/trump-climate-pact-coal-concessions-236196

Trump advisers want concessions for coal if U.S. stays in climate pact


Trump advisers want concessions for coal if U.S. stays in climate pact

The White House may be willing to remain in the Paris agreement if it can win support for technologies to reduce greenhouse gases from fossil fuels.

By Andrew Restuccia

03/17/17 06:00 PM EDT

Trump administration officials have told lobbyists and European diplomats that the U.S. won't stay in the nearly 200-nation Paris climate change agreement unless it can secure wins for the fossil fuel industry, according to three people familiar with the discussions.

In a series of recent conversations with industry groups and European officials, Trump advisers have said the White House decision on the Paris deal could hinge on international willingness to come up with a strategy to commercialize and deploy technologies that will reduce emissions from fossil fuels.

That may not sit well with Democrats and environmental groups, who have long argued against spending billions of dollars to reduce emissions from coal-fired power plants when the same money could help speed the transition to wind and solar power. But such a deal could avoid the enormous disruption that would result if the United States, the world’s second-largest greenhouse gas emitter, walked away from the most comprehensive international agreement ever crafted on global warming.

Administration officials who want to stay in the 2015 Paris agreement believe that creating a future pathway for fuels like coal is the only way to win support from conservative and industry groups that want the U.S. to withdraw from the accord. And some fossil fuel supporters are beginning to come around, despite their overall skepticism toward the climate pact.

“If the world can’t go on without us in the Paris accord — that’s a bit of an overstatement, but to illustrate my point — then perhaps we ought to be in it,” said Rep. Kevin Cramer (R-N.D.), a pro-oil lawmaker who advised the Trump campaign on energy issues. “And if we have that much influence, perhaps we have enough influence to moderate it.”

In recent weeks, administration officials have met with many of the country's major energy companies and trade groups. Those who have talked to the administration include representatives from the American Petroleum Institute, as well as the Independent Petroleum Association of America, ConocoPhillips and coal company Peabody Energy, among others, according to people familiar with the meetings.

A White House spokeswoman declined to comment, saying the administration did not yet have any announcements to make regarding the Paris agreement.