Support the Arctic Sea Ice Forum and Blog

Author Topic: The Trump  (Read 1473936 times)

AbruptSLR

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 19703
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 2268
  • Likes Given: 286
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3250 on: December 13, 2017, 08:14:32 PM »
Would LOVE to see Cruz lose next year.....  Possible.  Next few months will be interesting to see if Republicans start to put some distance between themselves and Trump.  And how much momentum can the Texas Dems generate in their state?

Who knows, maybe Julian Castro will unseat Trump sycophant Ted Cruz in 2018:

Title: "Democrats have their sights set on a major Republican after Doug Jones' upset win in Alabama — Ted Cruz"

http://www.businessinsider.com/democrats-think-they-can-take-down-ted-cruz-following-roy-moore-defeat-2017-12

Extract: ""Be afraid, @tedcruz. Be very afraid," former Housing and Urban Development Julian Castro said in a tweet.

Some Democrats believe Cruz's low popularity in Texas has made him uniquely vulnerable to a Democratic challenger in 2018."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

colchonero

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 140
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 27
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3251 on: December 13, 2017, 08:24:24 PM »
Well, I am pretty convinced GOP can hold 6 states that are neither tossup nor leaning GOP, but safe R and likely R (polling average) instead. Then they need just 1 more seat from all the rest. There is pretty good chance they can win 1 of these: "Ohio,North Dakota,Arizona,Missouri,Wisconsin, West Virginia,Nevada,Indiana,Montana." That shouldn't be such a difficult job. I mean of course they can eventually lose in every single state, but if that happens, if you can't pull out 1 of the states mentioned above(if I had to bet I'd bet on more but 1 would be enough), then you should rethink where all of that is going and consider changing your job. I'm not even  counting states like Virginia or Minnesota, and few more because I'm pretty sure they'll stay blue, even if they just lean blue.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2017, 08:35:24 PM by colchonero »

Buddy

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3379
  • Go DUCKS!!
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 49
  • Likes Given: 34
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3252 on: December 13, 2017, 08:26:51 PM »
Trumps approval rating is down to 36.6% on fivethirtyeight.com......which ties his low from early August.  Donnie's "Loveboat" is taking on water. 🛳

They are trying to ram the tax bill through during the next week.  In 3 months the primaries start....
« Last Edit: December 14, 2017, 12:25:51 AM by Buddy »
FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

Buddy

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3379
  • Go DUCKS!!
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 49
  • Likes Given: 34
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3253 on: December 14, 2017, 12:38:44 AM »
Karma is a bitch....😱

Since October....231,000 Puerto Rican's have traveled to Miami, Tampa, and Fort Lauderdale airports.  There are a lot of those folks moving to Florida.  And those folks are US citizens that can register to vote in Florida.....

.....for Governor and Attorney General in November 2018.  And that could come back to bite Donnie "bigly" if the new AG were to bring charges against Trump....

.....and were the Puerto Rican's happy with the disaster response from Trump?

Karma is knocking on Donnie's door....😳
FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

Buddy

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3379
  • Go DUCKS!!
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 49
  • Likes Given: 34
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3254 on: December 14, 2017, 04:58:18 PM »
The policies of the Trump administration line up really well with Vladi's policies when you think about it:

1). Get as many fossil fuels out of the ground as possible....and support the "oligarchs" 😉 you have placed around you.

2). Put women in their place....2nd place.  :o

3). Control the media....and that includes doing away with net neutrality.  By the way....the Lester Holt interview about 6 months ago was the last NON FOX/RT interview Donnie has done.  I wonder why?

4). Anti LGBT.....and he gets an assist from fake Christian and homophob Pence...

5). Enrich those around Donnie and to hell with anyone else.....especially the poor and middle class.

I think Donnie would fit in really well in Russia once short little Vladi leaves office.....

I'm beginning to think Donnie and Vladi have a little Canadian blood in them. 😳
FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

Sigmetnow

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 25757
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 1153
  • Likes Given: 430
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3255 on: December 14, 2017, 05:25:30 PM »
“Here's the most remarkable statistic about Tuesday's election in Alabama: The Democrat Doug Jones turned out nearly as many voters as Hillary Clinton did in the state last year, while the Republican Roy Moore got only about half as many as Donald Trump had.

There is no sign that Trump voters will be there when they are needed to help Republicans retain Congress — even if Trump tells them to show up.”
http://www.businessinsider.com/alabama-senate-election-doug-jones-2018-reason-to-worry-2017-12


“Republicans have now received fresh evidence that Trump can’t save their careers, even in the reddest of red states.”
http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/after-backing-two-failed-candidates-one-race-trump-loss
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

AbruptSLR

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 19703
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 2268
  • Likes Given: 286
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3256 on: December 14, 2017, 07:01:53 PM »
I imagine that some of the Trump Administration's dirty secrets will be exposed as/when Omarosa reveals details of what she observed while the WH:

Title: "Omarosa: I saw things in Trump White House 'I was very uncomfortable with'"

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/omarosa-i-saw-things-in-trump-white-house-i-was-very-uncomfortable-with/ar-BBGJvBb?OCID=ansmsnnews11
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

Buddy

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3379
  • Go DUCKS!!
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 49
  • Likes Given: 34
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3257 on: December 14, 2017, 09:33:23 PM »
Sounds as though Paul Ryan is looking at an "exit strategy" to "K Street".  Now that he has lied as much as he can about the regressive tax plan....sounds as though he is perhaps feeling out offers from K Street where he can multiply his earnings for one of the many lobbying firms on K Street.

They will be more than happy to have him....he has done a STELLER job of lying about the tax cuts for the wealthy.

I'm afraid that the reports of Paul Ryan doing some "soul searching" are obviously wrong.  He has no soul......

He worked hand-in-hand with Donnie to screw middle income earners.  Hillary probably would have done the same thing...😳😳😳....😉
« Last Edit: December 14, 2017, 10:23:21 PM by Buddy »
FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

Buddy

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3379
  • Go DUCKS!!
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 49
  • Likes Given: 34
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3258 on: December 16, 2017, 02:48:43 PM »
This coming week.....fascinating:

1). Tax bill comes up for a vote scheduled for Tuesday

2). John McCain increasingly frail.  If he doesn't make it back to D.C....that is one more vote the Republicans don't have

3). It looks as though the GOP will still have the votes needed....but there will be NO democrats voting yes.

4). Are Donnie and Trey Gowdy bluffing about changes to be made to the FBI?  Yesterday Gowdy said he would be surprised if Andrew McCabe was "still there (at the FBI) next week."

Donnie likely wouldn't try anything until AFTER the vote on the tax bill.

5). In addition....last week Donnie's attorneys said "the interviews of the administration by the FBI are now over."  Well.... I hate to inform Ty Cobb (Donnie's attorney)...but he doesn't make that call...Bob Mueller does.

Donnie's attorneys are meeting with Bob Mueller this coming week....so something is likely to happen next week on that front.  Bob Mueller is NOT DONE with questioning of the administration.  They will still question Mikey, Donnie Sr., Ivanka, Donnie Jr., and Jarred.

So either Donnie's team will "back down".... or....they will refuse further interviews and it then goes to court..... or Donnie starts firing people (Rob Rosentein...Andrew McCabe...and anyone else that won't fire Bob Mueller).

I have said that Mueller will EVENTUALLY be fired....because Donnie is VERY, VERY GUILTY.  Will that happen next week?  Maybe.  He has already tried to "set the table" for it by he, FOX, and loony right Congressmen bashing Mueller and the FBI.  And Donnie is losing the battle of the polls...with fivethirtyeight.com at new record lows.....Gallup at or near new lows...and even "friendly" Rasmussen Report heading in the wrong direction and poised to break down into sub 40 territory.

In short....Donnie is losing the public...so if he is going to make a move like the Saturday Massacre...he doesn't have a lot of time.  Perhaps a Massacre type of attack to shut down the investigation is his last step BEFORE his "ace in the hole" of starting a war.

The above is speculative of course....but that is where it looks like we are headed from where we sit right now.  And remember.....we are trying to guess what a sociopath will do...and he could do ANYTHING.

FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

sidd

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 6774
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 1047
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3259 on: December 17, 2017, 08:08:40 AM »
Screw the kids some more: Taibbi recalls trump's promises to address student debt:

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/features/taibbi-on-new-student-loan-debacle-and-trumps-campaign-con-w513929

43% not making payments already

"The numbers are an improvement over last year, when the nonpayment rate was 46 percent ... "

https://www.newsmax.com/US/student-loan-borrowers-missing/2016/04/06/id/722673/

sidd

SteveMDFP

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 2476
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 583
  • Likes Given: 42
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3260 on: December 17, 2017, 01:18:30 PM »
Screw the kids some more: Taibbi recalls trump's promises to address student debt:
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/features/taibbi-on-new-student-loan-debacle-and-trumps-campaign-con-w513929

43% not making payments already
"The numbers are an improvement over last year, when the nonpayment rate was 46 percent ... "
https://www.newsmax.com/US/student-loan-borrowers-missing/2016/04/06/id/722673/

sidd

I agree.  The failure to address the crushing cost of college in the US, and the impossible burden of student loan debt makes me livid.  A sane society supports the efforts of young people to get an education.  Instead, a shocking number of students are turning to thinly-disguised prostitution here:

Daddies, “Dates,” and the Girlfriend Experience: Welcome to the New Prostitution Economy
https://www.vanityfair.com/style/2016/07/welcome-to-the-new-prostitution-economy

Quote
In interviews, young women and men involved in sex work—not professionals forced into the life, but amateurs, kids—in Austin, New York, and Los Angeles, talked mostly about needing money. They were squeezed by college tuition, crushed by student loans and the high cost of living.

Rob Dekker

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 2386
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 120
  • Likes Given: 119
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3261 on: December 18, 2017, 12:14:10 AM »
A recent poll shows that Trump's approval rating among Fox News watchers dropped from 90 % in June to 58 % now. That's a 32 point drop among his base, folks !

TYT argues that if that number drops below 50 % that Republicans will start to drop support for Trump.



If they are right, we are 'this' close to the end of Trump, folks.

This is our planet. This is our time.
Let's not waste either.

Buddy

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3379
  • Go DUCKS!!
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 49
  • Likes Given: 34
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3262 on: December 18, 2017, 01:08:05 AM »
I wouldn't get too excited YET.  We have many more months to go in all likelihood.  His poll numbers WILL drive politicians choices..... that the poll numbers have a ways to go....and unfortunately it is a SLOW and winding road south.

It IS nice to see that some of the FOX viewers have snapped out of their trance.  But there are many that will NEVER change their mind.

I was watching a 20-20 (ABC network) show on a NXIVM (pronounced medium).  It was a "self help" group with a leader who was able to con people all across the world.    And he/they have conned hundreds of millions of dollars from them.

Humans are very susceptible to being conned.  Whether it is NXIVM, Scientology, or Donald Trump...there are many folks out there being conned.  FOX News is a con artist as well.  Again...I'm glad some of them are waking up.
FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

Pmt111500

  • Guest
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3263 on: December 18, 2017, 05:28:52 AM »
Hey all transgender people!  Have you heard the diversity of fetuses is becoming vulnerable in the republican mindset of entitlement? This is,for all science-based as evidence-based studies say most of them would like to have sex with their beautiful cousins. Yes, republican men can be beautiful too, there's nothing odd about that.

Ok. Now that this thread had been marked as hostile to the censorship bureau of CDC  please carry on.

To the people of future wondering wth this is about, this is from the times when a government considered certain words to be excluded from the language used by the officials of cdc. The opening paragraph contains many of them.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2017, 05:43:10 AM by Pmt111500 »

gerontocrat

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 20376
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 5289
  • Likes Given: 69
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3264 on: December 18, 2017, 12:07:45 PM »
Trump will drop climate change from US National Security Strategy

- President to outline new approach in unprecedented White House speech
- Obama administration added climate to list of threats to US interests

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/dec/18/trump-drop-climate-change-national-security-strategy

Whoops ?
"Para a Causa do Povo a Luta Continua!"
"And that's all I'm going to say about that". Forrest Gump
"Damn, I wanted to see what happened next" (Epitaph)

P-maker

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 389
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 72
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3265 on: December 18, 2017, 02:14:07 PM »
Donald T is right. The collapse of the capitalist’s system is most likely going to be worse for the US than any climate change impacts hitting them in the foreseeable future.

I have my worries for the younger generation though. Most of them rely extensively on electricity for their mobile device consumption, and they will be devastated, in case they cannot find their way around in foreign terrain without their digital crutches. They have no clue whatsoever of surviving any kind of hardship – and they basically know it. Hence, they try to cling on to all kinds of “do-it-yourself” fake reality shows on TV.

Some of the smart ones will carry a power bank and a solar charger on their journeys. Others will be left to die in the heat, if power disappears, or if the water systems dry up. Very few of them will be able to survive real disasters, as we have witnessed though the insightful comments from Bruce Steele (how to survive bush fires) and Archimid (how to survive hurricanes) this year. Very few have so far been able to survive and tell about encounters with starving polar bears (not on this blog).

The youngsters however, they have one strong advantage in common. They know each other well in times of virtual trouble, they trust each other and they are not afraid of what they don’t know. In that sense, they are well equipped to live the life awaiting them towards the brink of collapse…

Pmt111500

  • Guest
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3266 on: December 18, 2017, 02:17:46 PM »
Trump will drop climate change from US National Security Strategy

- President to outline new approach in unprecedented White House speech
- Obama administration added climate to list of threats to US interests

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/dec/18/trump-drop-climate-change-national-security-strategy

Whoops ?

This looks like we could stop talking of Trump and Trumpistan here, the guy is irrelevant wrt as are many of the states of USA. I propose a statue of him to be erected somewhere on the Atlantic continental shelf, wholly under water in order to keep the onlookers safe.

Buddy

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3379
  • Go DUCKS!!
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 49
  • Likes Given: 34
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3267 on: December 18, 2017, 02:32:00 PM »
Trump CONTINUES to make classic AUTHORITARIAN moves:

1). Use a narrow source of information/propaganda loyal to him...FOX.  Berate the rest of the press.

2). Since day one of his administration it has been Trump demanding loyalty or face the consequences

3). Trump continues to spew lies.  Marketing 101:  Keep saying a lie and eventually most people will believe it

Donnie is BY FAR the most dangerous holder of the Oval Office in the US...EVER.  And he is supported by the lies of FOX News.....who's viewers have been lied to for DECADES.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2017, 06:17:28 PM by Buddy »
FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

Bruce Steele

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 2503
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 744
  • Likes Given: 40
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3268 on: December 18, 2017, 05:53:47 PM »
" Trump is right, the collapse of the capitalists system is most likely going to be worse for the US than any climate change effects hitting them in the foreseeable future "
 P-Maker is correct and even Trump knows what our future is without all the support structures capitalism and technology provides. Our fires would have apocalyptic consequences without the 8,500
firemen and 1,000 fire engines brought in from many places in excess of 1,000 miles away. Should anyone without the communications network , fast transport ( cars ) , or modern fire control be caught in the backcountry their survival would be challenged. Their livestock would fry and any crops they might be growing would be lost. The situation in the aftermath of the hurricanes illustrate how dependent we are on electrical supplies. I suppose totalitarian governments can also supply these services but we in the US are gun crazy and how we would transition to a non-capitalist system is problematic. " I got mine " is the first rule and has generations of converts willing to enforce this rule.
Trump is emblematic of our mindset and any idealists out there would quickly revert should they and their family face starvation. We currently import ~ 95% of seafood eaten in this country, here in Calif. we import a similar percentage of pork from out of state. Money moves all this food and faith in our money keeps the system liquid. Take away the money and all hell will break loose.

Rob Dekker

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 2386
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 120
  • Likes Given: 119
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3269 on: December 19, 2017, 10:36:50 AM »
" Trump is right, the collapse of the capitalists system is most likely going to be worse for the US than any climate change effects hitting them in the foreseeable future "
 P-Maker is correct and even Trump knows what our future is without all the support structures capitalism and technology provides.

You guys are kidding with that first remark ("Trump is right"), right ?
Trump has never made such a statement (of "collapse of the capitalist system" or so).

In fact, the opposite is true. After all, what would Trump be without Twitter ?
This is our planet. This is our time.
Let's not waste either.

Bruce Steele

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 2503
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 744
  • Likes Given: 40
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3270 on: December 19, 2017, 04:59:09 PM »
Rob, P-maker didn't have his statement in quotes and I was just quoting P-maker.
I still think the question of supporting growth, GDP and the rich getting richer or what passes for American capitalism is far more important to Trump than climate change. I also think any major change in that system " the collapse of the capitalist system "that results in a depression would result in more immediate damage to the US than the immediate risks of climate change.
 I know there are plenty of people who believe we can transition to a green economy without suffering a major hit to the economy. I don't happen to be one of them. Practicing techniques that are designed to prepare for such an eventuality , the lack of transportation infrastructure, an Internet gone black, and all the grim realities of a major depression is just easier to ignor than consider a real possibility.
 So listening to what Trump says is obviously a waste of time and watching what he does much better reflects his inter thought processes.
 I happen to believe the consequences of ignoring climate change will result in the breakdown that would result from a depression , it will just take longer  to begin and last much longer.  Recovering from pushing climate change too far won't be possible IMO so as terrible as it sounds I would prefer a depression now but peons like me don't start depressions, the bankers do.
 In spite of my opinions on how this plays out I would prefer to live as simply as I can. I see far too many people preaching green but living black.
 
 

TerryM

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 6002
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 893
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3271 on: December 19, 2017, 07:31:02 PM »
Won't catastrophic climate change assure the collapse of the capitalist constructs presently connecting everything?


I don't see us facing global warming or economic upheaval, but rather confronting the consequences of climate change and the structural collapse of governance & finance.
Does quantifying and comparing the damage done by each vector serve a purpose, or might not looking at the synergies created by a climate change induced atmospheric river flood, coupled with poor dam maintenance, precipitated by financial malfeasance abetted by lack of governmental oversight, give a more complete picture of what we're to face.


If 85% of American seafood is imported, they probably shouldn't be saying nasty things about those feeding the masses. Unfed masses can become unruly masses.
If 85% of Californian pork arrives from out of state, perhaps NIMBY isn't a helpful attitude.


Terry

Sigmetnow

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 25757
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 1153
  • Likes Given: 430
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3272 on: December 20, 2017, 12:39:57 AM »
 ;D

Exceptional number of Democratic House challengers await 2018
Rachel Maddow shows a chart of the number of candidates from each party challenging incumbents for a House seat, and the exceptional number of Democrats who are in the running for the 2018 election. Duration: 2:12

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/watch/exceptional-number-of-democratic-house-challengers-await-2018-1119443523900
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

Buddy

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3379
  • Go DUCKS!!
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 49
  • Likes Given: 34
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3273 on: December 20, 2017, 01:23:25 AM »
Sigmetnow....

It's amazing what an overdose of Louis Ghomert...Ted Cruz...and a long list of other repulsive Republicans have done to energize the Democrats.  And I know some Independents that are happy to see it as well...
« Last Edit: December 20, 2017, 02:09:36 AM by Buddy »
FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

pileus

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 536
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 45
  • Likes Given: 9
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3274 on: December 20, 2017, 01:57:23 AM »
What’s also great is that we will see the surge in Dem candidates led by women.  Some inspired by Hillary Clinton, many by the misogyny of Tump/the GOP/the far left, and the metoo movement.  National and state level politics have for too long been dominated by he male frame of reference.  It’s way overdue for the shift towards truly representative government with respect to gender.

Rob Dekker

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 2386
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 120
  • Likes Given: 119
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3275 on: December 20, 2017, 04:48:29 AM »
I know there are plenty of people who believe we can transition to a green economy without suffering a major hit to the economy. I don't happen to be one of them.

We are wondering a little bit off topic here, but I'm still interested in how you obtained that opinion. It comes down to this :

If we install solar panels somewhere, we will invest money and create jobs.
So that's actually stimulating the economy, no ?

In a free market, panels will be installed if the invested money produces enough ROI. We are there already in sunny states (even if it includes grid storage) so if we let the free market rule, we can create jobs, stimulate the economy and investors make money.

How come you believe that we will be "suffering a major hit to the economy" ?
This is our planet. This is our time.
Let's not waste either.

pileus

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 536
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 45
  • Likes Given: 9
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3276 on: December 20, 2017, 06:36:52 AM »
The wind down is going to strip out trillions from the current fossil fuel based economy.  It won’t be added back in at equal measure.  Trump is a nuisance but won’t stop the greening and death of FF, and he can’t prevent the economic hit, which will only be multiplied by automation.

Bruce Steele

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 2503
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 744
  • Likes Given: 40
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3277 on: December 20, 2017, 06:47:48 AM »
Off topic I suppose but watching that circus is meant as a distraction.
I try to think along minimalist lines. Food , Clothing , Shelter
None of those things are locally produced in the reality of LA , New York, etc. our shared experiment.
We are so damned concerned with our cars and our electrical supplies. Maybe that's because we realize without maintaining the infrastructure to move all those basic supplies we can't maintain civilization?
So how about looking long and hard at how those basics are produced and how to do that with batteries?
Maybe think about fertilizers , tractors , cotton production, corn and soy beans. Soil killers all, regenerative agriculture and it's part in pulling down carbon ? Who the f knows and I am a farmer.
I just have a hard time thinking that we can fix the car , electricity issues and all the while ignor those things that sustain us. Yes  cars and electricity are very large contributors to our carbon footprint but neither of them will ever contribute to pulling down carbon, they are extravagances , bad habits.
So back to why I think growing the economy, keeping up the luxuries we expect will lead to ruin?
Because they are a distraction.
If my history in fishing and if what knowledge of acidification I have counts we are continuing apace .
Mauna Loa keeps going up and acidification follows along . Yes transforming our transport system should change the trend line eventually but let's be honest about how long it's gonna take . We have to reduce CO2 emissions by an enormous amount before Mauna Loa flattens out and begins to fall.
So without the proof I might need to convince you I think screwing up the land carbon sink by continuing conventional farming  + how soils will react to the heat that is coming. How the oceans and the carbon sink they represent is transformed by the extra heat and acidification that is in the pipeline for decades to come ? We are distracted and I think this catches up to us . Castles made of sand eventually return to sea.
There it is Rob, why I think the economy, any economy that forgets the basics is doomed . Cars, electricty? The economy?  Is that really where we should continue to focus? Trump thinks so ( IMO )
He isn't alone

Rob Dekker

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 2386
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 120
  • Likes Given: 119
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3278 on: December 20, 2017, 09:03:43 AM »
Bruce, I really don't see your point.
Are you trying to tell us that we are all doomed ?
Or that electrifying transportation and greening our electricity is not enough ?

Either way, you still did not answer my question :

In a free market, solar panels will be installed if the invested money produces enough ROI. We are there already in sunny states (even if it includes grid storage) so if we let the free market rule, we can create jobs, stimulate the economy and investors make money.

So how come you believe that we will be "suffering a major hit to the economy" if we transition to a green economy ?
This is our planet. This is our time.
Let's not waste either.

Rob Dekker

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 2386
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 120
  • Likes Given: 119
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3279 on: December 20, 2017, 09:34:12 AM »
And let me add that Trump completely ignores this tremendous market opportunity (of moving to a green economy) and instead wants to go back to 19th century energy (coal). SAD !
This is our planet. This is our time.
Let's not waste either.

pileus

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 536
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 45
  • Likes Given: 9
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3280 on: December 21, 2017, 12:01:00 AM »
What’s also great is that we will see the surge in Dem candidates led by women.  Some inspired by Hillary Clinton, many by the misogyny of Tump/the GOP/the far left, and the metoo movement.  National and state level politics have for too long been dominated by he male frame of reference.  It’s way overdue for the shift towards truly representative government with respect to gender.

The revolution is not going to be led by an unkempt blowhard in an ill fitting suit, it’s going to be led by women.

Martin Gisser

  • Guest
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3281 on: December 21, 2017, 12:40:59 AM »
Bruce, I really don't see your point.
Are you trying to tell us that we are all doomed ?
Or that electrifying transportation and greening our electricity is not enough ?
Indeed it is not enough. We also need an agricultural revolution: Regenerative small-scale agriculture embedded in Nature's Matrix.
https://books.google.de/books/about/Nature_s_Matrix.html?id=lcPq48XHgWcC
That requires also a cultural (r)evolution.
A billion Bruces we need.

Bruce Steele

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 2503
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 744
  • Likes Given: 40
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3282 on: December 21, 2017, 03:20:41 AM »
Rob, Questions like " Are you trying to tell us we are all doomed ? " is known as a thought stopper.
Martin has the best responce , we need more than a renewable electrical revolution. It should be obvious that we need to work on pulling down some of the CO2 already working it's way through the short term carbon sinks, and sending it into long term sinks.
 I am dubious about the adoption of renewable electrics by a certain segment of society even if it makes economic sense. People driving Hummers, muscle cars, and that segment of society that would categorize all of us here on the forum as nut jobs. Don't you know any of these people?  I know some of them and they know me. They will vote for Trump again.
 I have solar electrics and it is great stuff but to me there is just so much more work to do. Renewables need to be adopted by a much larger segment of society .
 Sorry if I don't have an answer about why I believe this transition isn't going to be the boon to the economy you think it will be. I don't understand how the economy keeps floating while we continue to go deeply into debt. When things do turn south solar panels and a new tesla might be down on the list of people's priorities.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2017, 03:30:18 AM by Bruce Steele »

Rob Dekker

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 2386
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 120
  • Likes Given: 119
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3283 on: December 21, 2017, 07:00:49 AM »
Bruce, I never intended to issue a thought stopper.
I truly did not understand your point, so thank you for clarifying.

Yes, I also believe that it will be hard to get some people out of their CO2 belching monster vehicles and into something more sustainable. I think Tesla is setting the trend there by making really cool electric vehicles (which outperform their ICE equivalents).

The last thing I don't understand gets us back into this thread :
You mention a few times that "Trump is right".
Exactly what did you mean there ? About what is Trump right ? Did I miss some of Trump's remarks about any of this ?
This is our planet. This is our time.
Let's not waste either.

Martin Gisser

  • Guest
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3284 on: December 21, 2017, 10:28:47 AM »
In a free market, panels will be installed if the invested money produces enough ROI. We are there already in sunny states (even if it includes grid storage) so if we let the free market rule, we can create jobs, stimulate the economy and investors make money.

How come you believe that we will be "suffering a major hit to the economy" ?
Or, if a nation isn't held hostage by simplistic market ideology, then a market failure (e.g. global warming) can be remedied by subsidies, taxes and regulations. That's one important job of "big government" :) Thus, Bavaria/Germany has a huge amount of solar, while being quite a bit north of California: Insolation comparable to Alaska...
Dunno what the latest state of the race is. Has CA caught up?
https://cleantechnica.com/2017/05/08/germany-breaks-solar-record-gets-85-electricity-renewables/
https://energytransition.org/2015/05/solar-twice-as-expensive-in-us-as-in-germany/



The German economy is doing well and has less boom-bust cycles than U.S.A. We even have universal healthcare and (almost) free university education.

Recently I talked to a German guy who drives a Tesla. He isn't super rich, but very busy, having to drive a lot (like an avg American :) ). He did the math and decided the Tesla amortizes quickly. But of course (see above) we have a significant gas tax.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2017, 10:44:42 AM by Martin Gisser »

Martin Gisser

  • Guest
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3285 on: December 21, 2017, 02:59:23 PM »
OMFG... U.S.A. now looking like late communist Romania under the leadership of Nicolae Ceausescu, Titan of the Carpathians.


So I thought yesterdays event in the WH rose garden was gross, all the stooges slathering The Donald with adulation.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2017/12/20/the-rose-garden-celebrations-of-trump-and-some-tax-thing-ranked/

http://edition.cnn.com/videos/politics/2017/12/20/donald-trump-lavished-praise-tax-bill-passage-orig-allee.cnn/video/playlists/president-trumps-tax-reform/

And now the creepy Pence showing his grandmastery of asskissing, after hearing the Lord's Prayer.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/mike-pence-cabinet-speech-to-trump_us_5a3b637de4b06d1621b1c282
https://www.rawstory.com/2017/12/sent-him-knee-pads-for-christmas-internet-hilariously-roasts-mike-pences-ass-kissing-cabinet-speech-to-trump/

-------------------------
P.S.:
Some material for the Pence, McConnell et al.:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolae_Ceau%C8%99escu%27s_cult_of_personality
Quote
The media used the expression "golden era of Ceaușescu" and a plethora of fomulaic appellations such as "guarantor of the nation's progress and independence" and "visionary architect of the nation's future". Dan Ionescu, a writer for Radio Free Europe compiled a list of epithets for Ceaușescu that were used by Romanian writers. They included "architect", "celestial body" (Mihai Beniuc), "demiurge", "secular god" (Corneliu Vadim Tudor), "fir tree", "Prince Charming" (Ion Manole), "genius", "saint" (Eugen Barbu), "miracle", "morning star" (Vasile Andronache), "navigator" (Victor Nistea), "saviour" (Niculae Stoian), "sun" (Alexandru Andriţoiu), "titan" (Ion Potopin) and "visionary" (Viorel Cozma). He was most commonly described as the Conducător, or "the leader."
« Last Edit: December 21, 2017, 07:34:07 PM by Martin Gisser »

Susan Anderson

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 527
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 40
  • Likes Given: 279
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3286 on: December 21, 2017, 07:39:51 PM »
I wrote this little rant and realized it was OT so am moving it here. I know I'm not going to make a dent, but please hear me out for a moment.

To revisit a sore subject, if all those determined to blame the Clintons and long-serving Democrats fighting the good fight for everything that is wrong here were to spend as much energy finding out who they are and what they've done outside the dedicated conspiracy bubble, they would discover it's not that simple. Blaming victims and indulging in circular firing squads enables the real enemy. Bill Clinton had a hostile Congress, as did Obama, and they did what they could. They probably could have done more, but the country was not ready for my way or the highway Democratic principles, unfortunately.

Buddy

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3379
  • Go DUCKS!!
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 49
  • Likes Given: 34
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3287 on: December 22, 2017, 03:17:47 AM »
Niki Haly spoke to the United Nations delegation yesterday....BEFORE a vote was to be taken against the US for recognizing Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.  In her speech.....she warned the whole UN delegation that the US might withhold money for the UN......and Niki said that "the US would be taking names" of countries that voted against the US.

Apparently.....Niki Haley isn't a poker player......because she was holding a "7 high".....and most of the UN called her bluff.  😳

The vote was 120 something to 9 I believe.  England, France, Germany, and Japan all voted against the US.  So the US is again separating from our normal allies. 

Well done Moron Don...... I wonder what Hillary would have done? 😳
FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

Bruce Steele

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 2503
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 744
  • Likes Given: 40
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3288 on: December 22, 2017, 04:06:39 AM »
The list of countries yielding to the threat and voting with the US are Guatemala, Honduras, Israel,
Marshal Islands, Micronesia, Nauru, Palau, Togo and the US of Trump. The rest of the world better watch out ,we're taking numbers. If you're lucky we will remove our military bases.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2017, 04:12:16 AM by Bruce Steele »

Rob Dekker

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 2386
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 120
  • Likes Given: 119
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3289 on: December 22, 2017, 08:08:04 AM »
Dunno what the latest state of the race is. Has CA caught up?

I know this is off topic, but since you asked :
This is a good web site : CA ISO, which records solar and wind power generated each day here in California :

https://www.caiso.com/Pages/TodaysOutlook.aspx

Even during the dark days around Christmas, around noon, CA still generates some 40% of its electricity from solar (and a bit of wind). Much less during the night, of course.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2017, 08:16:14 AM by Rob Dekker »
This is our planet. This is our time.
Let's not waste either.

Buddy

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3379
  • Go DUCKS!!
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 49
  • Likes Given: 34
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3290 on: December 22, 2017, 02:08:29 PM »
Martin:

I liked your post about Donnie's "kiss-a-thon".  I have three thoughts on it:

1). Anyone who had any remaining doubts about the mental fragility of Donnie.....surely must have had those doubts answered in a loud and thunderous way.  I hope people saw at least SOME of the over-the-top ass kissing.  I was waiting for servants to enter the room and carry King Donnie out in a golden chair.

2). Anyone who had any thoughts about the possibility of his administration to have any semblance of a backbone....or any semblance of character.....certainly came away empty handed.

3). I refer you back to the clip of the "Stanford psychology experiment" of 1971 that I had posted a couple of times.  What you are seeing NOW in the Trump administration dovetails in nicely with what they found at Stanford during that prison experiment to study the effects of "perceived power".  Donnie's administration is doing just what would be expected.  A fascinating study of what people will do in a group environment when they have authority. 
FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

Sigmetnow

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 25757
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 1153
  • Likes Given: 430
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3291 on: December 22, 2017, 02:15:40 PM »
As worsening fires, floods and storms take their toll on small businesses, the new tax bill removes the available tax relief — unless the president expressly permits you to have it. 

The bill is so long and complicated, and was rammed through so quickly, without expert review, there are likely many other eliminations and errors that will be found in the coming days.

“Worse yet, changes do not replace the old code, but simply amend it, inserting changes, new sections and striking words, sections, and paragraphs. You can’t read the bill without referring to the existing tax code to find out just what is changing. Nor can anyone (even those who wrote it) be sure it will do just what they think it will do. There are sure to be errors and corrections that Congress will have to make. How long these will take and how many there will be is anyone’s guess. It could be years before the IRS does its interpretation of the tax changes and even longer, if ever, before those interpretations are tested by courts.”

New tax plan won’t help small businesses after hurricane, wildfire, other disasters
https://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/new-tax-plan-won-t-help-small-businesses-after-hurricane-n831191
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

Neven

  • Administrator
  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 9470
    • View Profile
    • Arctic Sea Ice Blog
  • Liked: 1333
  • Likes Given: 617
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3292 on: December 22, 2017, 10:28:57 PM »
Well done Moron Don...... I wonder what Hillary would have done? 😳

Maybe she changed her mind, maybe she wouldn't have done it because of the backlash, but in 1999 St. Hillary said:

Quote
First lady Hillary Rodham Clinton says she considers Jerusalem to be the “eternal and indivisible capital of Israel” and will be an active advocate — if elected to New York’s Senate seat — to move the U.S. embassy to Jerusalem.

In a letter that became public Thursday, Mrs. Clinton wrote: “If I am chosen by New Yorkers to be their senator, or in whatever position I find myself in the years to come, you can be sure that I will be an active, committed advocate for a strong and secure Israel, able to live in peace with its neighbors, with the United States Embassy located in its capital, Jerusalem.”
The enemy is within
Don't confuse me with him

E. Smith

sidd

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 6774
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 1047
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3293 on: December 22, 2017, 10:30:21 PM »

Buddy

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3379
  • Go DUCKS!!
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 49
  • Likes Given: 34
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3294 on: December 22, 2017, 11:29:19 PM »
Yes...."maybe" she changed her mind.  Just maybe...😉
FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

ivica

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1475
  • Kelele
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 99
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3295 on: December 23, 2017, 12:02:56 AM »
Quote
Go DUCKS!!
 Yes...."maybe" she changed her mind.  Just maybe...😉
"she" what is that ?

Susan Anderson

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 527
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 40
  • Likes Given: 279
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3296 on: December 23, 2017, 03:28:23 AM »
Why sneer? Nobody is calling Hillary a saint. We're only suggesting that she's not the devil incarnate either, despite people's emotional commitment to believing she was/is. That was rather a generic statement about supporting Israel, wasn't it?

Martin Gisser

  • Guest
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3297 on: December 23, 2017, 03:34:48 AM »
This FRMS (Friday Rachel Maddow Show) is historic.

Martin Gisser

  • Guest
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3298 on: December 23, 2017, 04:03:25 AM »
Or perhaps summarizes a new paradigm after Watergate etc. etc. incl. EPA.

Buddy

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3379
  • Go DUCKS!!
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 49
  • Likes Given: 34
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3299 on: December 23, 2017, 04:49:11 AM »
Maddow's show on Friday is pretty staggering:

1). Republicans in Congress doing their best to sidetrack the RussiaGate investigations by both Congress AND the FBI.  Since the Flynn arrest....they have been pretty damn freaked out.  And that goes for FOX News as well.  We have all seen the seemingly coordinated effort by FOX, The Wall Street Journal, Trump, and several Republican Congressmen.

I think interviewing Felix Sater at the very time that Congress was voting on the tax act....AND....having that interview of Sater done in New York....so none of the Congressmen could attend wreaks of trying to weaken the Congressional investigation.  Not very subtle.

If the Mueller investigation is allowed to finish (which is definitely NOT a foregone conclusion).... people will see the biggest scam in US election history....and it will be broader and deeper than any of you can imagine.  PERIOD. STOP.

Before this wraps up....we are heading for a constitutional crisis or two....or three.

2). Relative to the Wall Street Journal.....not surprising that Murdoch seems to be "culling" many of the journalists that have questioned Trump.  Murdoch is a SLIMEBALL that has no use for facts.

I have ALWAYS stated that FOX News has been the most dangerous threat to a working democracy in the US.  When I say FOX.....what I more ACCURATELY should say is "Murdoch entities LED by Fox and secondarily The Wall Street Journal."  That's a mouthful....so I will still just say FOX.  But be aware that the WSJ is also poisoned by a growing lack of ethics.

I smell a story that is likely to grow larger at both FOX and the WSJ....  Rupport is in deep with his new found pal, Donnie boy.

3). The destruction of the EPA by Scottie Pruitt is pretty disconcerting.  Scott Pruitt hired a good friend of his....a banker who loaned Scott more than 6 million bucks many years ago to buy a minor league baseball team.  That same banker....has just been disallowed from the banking sector in Oklahoma FOR LIFE....and he was fined $125,000.

And Scott Pruitt gave that banker....who has ZERO experience with toxic waste....the job of looking after the EPA Superfund sites.  Makes sense....right?  That's what Hillary would have done😉.

Ole Scottie is pretty much dismantling the EPA.  Rand Paul must be ecstatic.  Who needs clean water when we can have "clean coal" anyway?  Certainly not Hillary.😉

So yes....that was a pretty disconcerting show.  And things are going to get worse.  We haven't seen anything yet.

We have journalists (not you FOX....you're not journalists) and the FBI and slightly less than half of Congress that are standing up for Democracy in the US.  We'll know over the next year or so if that will be enough.  I sure hope so....



FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."