Support the Arctic Sea Ice Forum and Blog

Author Topic: The Trump  (Read 1473739 times)

Rob Dekker

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 2386
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 120
  • Likes Given: 119
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3300 on: December 23, 2017, 05:19:55 AM »
Quote
Go DUCKS!!
 Yes...."maybe" she changed her mind.  Just maybe...😉
"she" what is that ?

That would be Hillary.
Neven makes a good point that in 1999 she disagreed with White House policy (her own husband).
Buddy makes the point that maybe she changed her mind since then.
Which is a reasonable point, considering that she has been Sec of State since then and knows much more about the sensitivities of the various parties in the Middle East regarding Jerusalem.

Back to this thread, did Trump change his mind about "grabbing their pussy" yet ?
« Last Edit: December 23, 2017, 05:27:01 AM by Rob Dekker »
This is our planet. This is our time.
Let's not waste either.

TerryM

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 6002
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 893
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3301 on: December 23, 2017, 05:59:00 AM »
Why sneer? Nobody is calling Hillary a saint. We're only suggesting that she's not the devil incarnate either, despite people's emotional commitment to believing she was/is. That was rather a generic statement about supporting Israel, wasn't it?


Neither Hillary nor Trump are saints or devils, people are people. The FSM said it. I believe it. That settles it!
 
Ramen


Terry
PS
My understanding is that a couple of years back most Democrats did support moving the embassy to Jerusalem. NY Democrats in particular might well have demographic concerns.
Most of the world apparently disagrees.

sidd

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 6774
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 1047
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3302 on: December 23, 2017, 10:02:31 PM »

sidd

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 6774
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 1047
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3303 on: December 23, 2017, 10:03:03 PM »

SteveMDFP

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 2476
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 583
  • Likes Given: 42
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3304 on: December 23, 2017, 11:50:46 PM »
Well, anti-tank arms to Ukraine is certainly cause for concern.  I think there are even more acute causes for concern:

The US reportedly wants a limited strike on North Korea to give Kim Jong Un a 'bloody nose'
http://www.businessinsider.com/us-reportedly-wants-bloody-nose-strike-against-north-korea-2017-12
Quote
If the US were to send Tomahawk missiles toward a launch site, North Korea might interpret the incoming salvo as targeting its supreme leader and being an outright act of war.

Immediately, Kim could order North Korea's massive artillery installations to open fire on Seoul, potentially killing tens of thousands within hours.

The bloody-nose scenario comes down to a gamble on whether North Korea is ready to enter all-out war over a limited strike.

And it seems the scenario isn't fanciful:
Storm clouds gathering over Korean peninsula, Mattis tells US troops
http://www.straitstimes.com/world/united-states/storm-clouds-gathering-over-korean-peninsula-mattis-tells-us-troops
Quote
"My fine young soldiers, the only way our diplomats can speak with authority and be believed is if you're ready to go," Mr Mattis told several dozen soldiers and airmen during a two-day tour of US bases, the military journal Stars And Stripes reported on Friday (Dec 22).

During his visit to another US base, the Guantanamo Bay Naval Station, he told the troops "you all have to be ready to go" if diplomacy fails.

The US could not assume that North Korean leader Kim Jong Un does not seek nuclear war, he said.

The Associated Press quoted him saying: "If we have to do it (militarily), we expect to make it the worst day in North Korea's life."

If war comes, "every submarine he's got is to be sunk, and every ship he's got is to be sunk", said the retired general.

At Fort Bragg, Mr Mattis told the troops they should read the book This Kind Of War: A Study In Unpreparedness published in 1963, a decade after the Korean war ended in 1953.

"You know what I'm driving at here," Mr Mattis said as the soldiers listened in silence, the Stars And Stripes reported.

"So you gotta be ready," he added.

Trump brings us now to the brink of a war that would likely kill millions, and devastate the global economy.
The big story of war and peace really isn't about US-Russia relations at all.  Soured US-Russia relations are just a footnote in the gathering storm.
Getting rid of Trump is crucial.  If he can only be removed by indictment for conspiracy to lie to the FBI, that's good enough for the crises at hand.  God speed to Mueller's work.

Buddy

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3379
  • Go DUCKS!!
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 49
  • Likes Given: 34
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3305 on: December 28, 2017, 01:49:02 PM »
Donnie didn't waste much time "getting back to work."  Note:  His use of the word "work" means GOLF.  Round #86 of his first year in office.

When you eat as many big macs as fat Donnie.....you NEED to play a lot of golf. ;)

He also got right back into the swing of his other favorite activity:  LYING.  Yesterday, at a firehouse in Florida,  Donnie must have thought he was at a Burger King instead of a firehouse....because he told ONE HELL OF A WHOPPER.  He said he had passed more legislation than any president since Truman.  Well.....Donnie.....here is the score on that:

The ACTUAL number of bills for recent past presidents are as follows (from highest to lowest number of bills passed during the 1st year in office):
1) Carter 249
2) Bush (father) 242
3) Clinton 209
4) Reagan 158
5) Obama 124
6) Bush (son) 109
7) Trump 96

Nice try Donnie.  Maybe ease up on the golf a little in 2018.... :)

And to put Donnie in the right mood for 2018.....Gallup announced that the most admired MALE in the US was Obama (Donnie came in second place with 14% to Obama's 17%.....and Hillary was the most admired female.  I'm sure that will please Moron Don bigley.....
« Last Edit: December 28, 2017, 04:33:20 PM by Buddy »
FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

sidd

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 6774
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 1047
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3306 on: December 29, 2017, 11:23:57 PM »

TerryM

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 6002
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 893
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3307 on: December 30, 2017, 12:38:39 AM »
Dave Barry should write for the Onion:

http://www.miamiherald.com/living/liv-columns-blogs/dave-barry/article192007484.html

sidd
Dave's Gift Guide was wonderful. The teens in my life would be thrilled to receive their own Barry Manilow coloring book, but then who wouldn't?
Terry

Sigmetnow

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 25753
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 1153
  • Likes Given: 430
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3308 on: December 30, 2017, 01:51:08 AM »
Incoherent, authoritarian, uninformed: Trump’s New York Times interview is a scary read
The president of the United States is not well.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/12/29/16829806/trump-interview-new-york-times
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

ivica

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1475
  • Kelele
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 99
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3309 on: December 30, 2017, 02:40:40 AM »
WikiLeaks reminds us on those who made this thread possible:

WikiLeaks ‏Verified account @wikileaks Dec 28
Quote
They Always Wanted Trump: Leaked emails show that the Hillary Clinton campaign secretly promoted and protected Trump

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/11/hillary-clinton-2016-donald-trump-214428

Quote
Trump “is a master manipulator and a master of the counterintuitive.

is his fun with the dnc endless?

SteveMDFP

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 2476
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 583
  • Likes Given: 42
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3310 on: December 30, 2017, 01:59:30 PM »
Yet another depressing detail of the Trump administration's dismantling of sane governance.  Several members of this advisory panel already resigned over the administration's apathy about HIV/AIDS.

Trump terminates HIV/AIDS advisory panel members as he seeks replacements
Quote
http://thehill.com/business-a-lobbying/366808-trump-terminates-hiv-aids-advisory-panel-members-as-he-seeks-replacements The Trump administration has terminated the remaining 10 members of the president's advisory council on HIV/AIDS as it prepares to appoint new members.. .
The terminations come after six members of the council resigned this summer, saying that Trump doesn't care about HIV. . .
"The fact is we are in many ways worlds apart in our approaches," Maldonado said, providing the administration's emphasis on abstinence education as an example.

Nearly a year into Trump's presidency, the White House has yet to appoint a director of the Office of National AIDS Policy.

Advocates were also angered that Trump's public statements on National HIV Testing Day and World AIDS Day didn't mention LGBT people, a change from the Obama administration.

Sigh.

AbruptSLR

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 19703
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 2268
  • Likes Given: 286
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3311 on: December 31, 2017, 11:38:00 PM »
The UN Secretary-General has little faith that Trump will maintain world stability:

Title: "UN chief issues 'red alert,' urges world to come together in 2018 to tackle pressing challenges"

http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=58370#.Wkll3kxFyUk

Extract: "In his message on the New Year, United Nations Secretary-General António Guterres is calling for unity among the global community to tackle overwhelming challenges and defend values shared by all.

“On New Year's Day 2018, I am not issuing an appeal. I am issuing an alert – a red alert for our world,” said the Secretary-General."

See also:

http://thehill.com/policy/international/366940-un-secretary-general-issues-red-alert-for-world-ahead-of-2018

“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

Buddy

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3379
  • Go DUCKS!!
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 49
  • Likes Given: 34
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3312 on: January 02, 2018, 09:12:42 PM »
Roy Jones chooses black chief-of-staff:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/politics/ct-alabama-doug-jones-chief-of-staff-20180102-story.html

This year....Alabama.  Next year......Mississippi would be nice.... ;D
FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

Buddy

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3379
  • Go DUCKS!!
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 49
  • Likes Given: 34
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3313 on: January 02, 2018, 09:28:53 PM »
Orrin Hatch not running.....and leaving the runway for Mitt Romney, means one more likely impeachment vote in the Senate next year.  Yes...Mitt is a Republican....but Karma is a bitch....and she doesn't like Donnie.

Mitt also has his eyes on the "big prize as well". 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/hatch-announces-not-seek-election-192159569--politics.html
FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

Buddy

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3379
  • Go DUCKS!!
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 49
  • Likes Given: 34
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3314 on: January 02, 2018, 09:37:46 PM »
Meet Ben Sasse....Republican on the judiciary committee....and someone who is going to be one BIG THORN in the side of Moron Don's side over the next year or so....

https://www.yahoo.com/news/swipe-trump-gop-senator-ben-143822703.html

Scott Frost....and now Ben Sasse.  I'm getting to like Nebraska more and more..... :)
FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

Pmt111500

  • Guest
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3315 on: January 03, 2018, 12:32:32 AM »
Sentiments: https://m.dailykos.com/stories/1728522 , but that's just talk. And please not get tired of the lies of republicans and especially Drumpf the Orange Shit-Gibbon. At least he provokes some creative cussing, if you need a break from damaging the republicans. They want hate.

JimD

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 2272
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 6
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3316 on: January 03, 2018, 12:53:27 AM »
Ben Sasse

Hmm.  Let's see.  From link:

Quote
In an apparent criticism of President Donald Trump’s attacks on the news media, Republican Senator Ben Sasse of Nebraska called for a revival of “shared facts” in U.S. politics.

Sasse said in a New Year's Day video posted on Twitter that the American system of government “will not work without shared facts.”


This is an incredibly naive statement for someone who is as high up in politics as a Senator.  Guess we could say it shows his age or something.

There has never been a time in US politics where there were 'shared' facts or 'truths' and the news media has always been biased and told blatant lies in trying to advance the 'facts' which their side wants accepted.  Any minor plunge into the history of politics and the news media since the country was founded would find that the excesses of today were frequently exceeded in our past.  Trump and his news company's are not outliers but a rather common place occurrence.

An interesting bit of reading, for those inclined, who would like to get a bit better understanding of where the Republicans are playing the game with some degree of skill while the Democrats have been hopelessly lost out in the weeds somewhere I will link below.  It is a bit long and fairly academic but very on point, and something that those who are deeply suffering from TDS need to understand.

Quote
....
The post-truth, in other words, opens up a political project as well as a pedagogical one. The political project involves the power relations that compose truths, and the pedagogical project involves how we engage ourselves, each other, and the world in transformative processes.


Force in the market-place of ideas

The right wing knows all of this. They don't make appeals to the truth. They make appeals to beliefs and convictions. If those beliefs and desires contradict some set of evidence, then that evidence is fake. That is what Donald Trump means when he tweets "FAKE NEWS!" It isn't an assertion of what the truth really is (as if the news had some innate relationship to truth and constituted "the real"). It isn't an objection based on an understanding of language as neutral and objective containers of ideas, nor is it based on an understanding of language as a weapon of persuasion. Rather, the "FAKE NEWS" tweet is intended as an anticipatory interpellation. It's an assertion of belief of   what should be, a performative utterance meant to organize and intensify one side-his side-of the political. To reply that the news isn't fake, that the fake news designation only applies to news that he doesn't like, news that makes his side look bad, misses the point completely. Sure, the right wing preaches about the importance of "freedom of speech," but they clearly only mean their speech. They'll attack a left-wing academic for their tweets and try to get them fired while they protest against a campus banning a neo-Nazi speaker. Recently, Trump got backlash for sharing anti-Islamic propaganda videos from a neo-Nazi group in Britain. Their veracity was first called into question and then disproven. When confronted with this, Trump's press secretary totally disregarded the attack: "Whether it's a real video, the threat is real," she said.   [4]

This is why the right wing is winning: they know they have enemies and they have allies, and together they want to defeat those enemies. To defeat those enemies, they mobilize, organize, intervene, and act collectively. They imagine the future they want. They talk to each other, they create their own ideological bubbles from which to act, resist, take swings. They capture the state and wield it toward their ends. They don't care about what the other side thinks. They aren't trying to win us over. They believe in themselves and their movement. They don't think their people need to be enlightened by public intellectuals.....

If you want to win a knife fight you bring a knife or a gun...the truth is irrelevant.

http://www.hamptoninstitution.org/dont-bring-the-truth-to-a-knife-fight.html#.WkwSed9KuUm



We do not err because truth is difficult to see. It is visible at a glance. We err because this is more comfortable. Alexander Solzhenitsyn

How is it conceivable that all our technological progress - our very civilization - is like the axe in the hand of the pathological criminal? Albert Einstein

AbruptSLR

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 19703
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 2268
  • Likes Given: 286
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3317 on: January 03, 2018, 02:53:09 AM »
If you want to win a knife fight you bring a knife or a gun...the truth is irrelevant.

JimD,

It is great to read one of your thought provoking posts again.

Hopefully, the Democrats will bring one mid-term election sweep, plus one Special Counsel investigation findings, to the coming presidential knife fight after November 2018.

Best,
ASLR
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

sidd

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 6774
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 1047
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3318 on: January 03, 2018, 07:27:46 AM »
How the sausage factory works: Grassley got Trump to lean on Pruitt to keep ethanol requirement up in the renewable fuel standards, and in return keeps beating hilary and the fbi like rented mules.


http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/367141-congressional-investigators-find-irregularities-in-fbis-handling-of

sidd

Neven

  • Administrator
  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 9470
    • View Profile
    • Arctic Sea Ice Blog
  • Liked: 1333
  • Likes Given: 617
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3319 on: January 03, 2018, 11:52:58 AM »
Quote
They don't care about what the other side thinks. They aren't trying to win us over.

This is important.
The enemy is within
Don't confuse me with him

E. Smith

oren

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 9805
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 3584
  • Likes Given: 3922
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3320 on: January 03, 2018, 01:35:37 PM »
If you want to win a knife fight you bring a knife or a gun...the truth is irrelevant.

JimD,

It is great to read one of your thought provoking posts again.
Indeed.

gerontocrat

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 20370
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 5289
  • Likes Given: 69
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3321 on: January 03, 2018, 03:28:39 PM »
I have put this post here and not in "RussiaGate" as the quoted book is about the Trump Presidency in general, although the article is almost entirely Trump / Bannon / Russiagate. This perhaps reflects the the current media obsession that diverts attention from the damage to science, the environment and US society in general happening now, will  continue to happen, and that, in the long-term, may be seen as far more important.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jan/03/donald-trump-russia-steve-bannon-michael-wolff

Quote
Trump Tower meeting with Russians 'treasonous', Bannon says in explosive book
    • Former White House strategist quoted in Fire and Fury, by Michael Wolff
      Bannon: ‘They’re going to crack Don Junior like an egg on national TV

    Donald Trump’s former chief strategist Steve Bannon has described the Trump Tower meeting between the president’s son and a group of Russians during the 2016 election campaign as “treasonous” and “unpatriotic”, according to an explosive new book seen by the Guardian.

    Bannon, speaking to author Michael Wolff, warned that the investigation into alleged collusion with the Kremlin will focus on money laundering and predicted: “They’re going to crack Don Junior like an egg on national TV.”
[/list]
« Last Edit: January 03, 2018, 03:36:28 PM by gerontocrat »
"Para a Causa do Povo a Luta Continua!"
"And that's all I'm going to say about that". Forrest Gump
"Damn, I wanted to see what happened next" (Epitaph)

JimD

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 2272
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 6
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3322 on: January 03, 2018, 07:38:49 PM »
ASLR and Oren

You're welcome. I'm around the homestead a fair amount of the time so if you want to get my attention just send me a message through the Forum.

 I don't read much here as I spend most of my time in forums related to national security and related subjects as that has a more immediate impact on events.  The climate change and carrying capacity issues of course are far more important in an existential sense, but they will play out over the next few decades and there will very likely be no dramatic changes in my remaining lifetime.  Like many, I hope for a big disaster along those lines (and I even admit that is my desire which many won't do) which will galvanize the public to demand rapid civilizational change.  But the science does not indicate such a change is likely any time soon.  And fundamental human nature is not all that flexible either so I expect events to play out along the lines I have described here before - the strong will sacrifice the weak to maintain relative dominance.  So I monitor our slow civilizational collapse and marvel at the propensity for folks to only see their 'facts and truths' while not recognizing that their opponents are following the exact same path they are.

In between the various jobs I take on I also go for 'long walks' (backpacking in the mountains) frequently where I can get away from the daily news cycle and just think.  This is really helpful as when one is away from the daily crap and then returns to see it again it is strongly brought home how insane so much of what folks are wrapped up in is.  This is especially true of the Trump situation.  Maybe because I am not a Republican or a Democrat I can stand apart from their faithful and see how crazy much of what both think is and how completely they misunderstand each other.  But I perhaps have the same type of blindness when it comes to my own political/economic beliefs.



We do not err because truth is difficult to see. It is visible at a glance. We err because this is more comfortable. Alexander Solzhenitsyn

How is it conceivable that all our technological progress - our very civilization - is like the axe in the hand of the pathological criminal? Albert Einstein

pileus

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 536
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 45
  • Likes Given: 9
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3323 on: January 03, 2018, 08:42:48 PM »
Ben Sasse

Hmm.  Let's see.  From link:

Quote
In an apparent criticism of President Donald Trump’s attacks on the news media, Republican Senator Ben Sasse of Nebraska called for a revival of “shared facts” in U.S. politics.

Sasse said in a New Year's Day video posted on Twitter that the American system of government “will not work without shared facts.”


This is an incredibly naive statement for someone who is as high up in politics as a Senator.  Guess we could say it shows his age or something.

There has never been a time in US politics where there were 'shared' facts or 'truths' and the news media has always been biased and told blatant lies in trying to advance the 'facts' which their side wants accepted.  Any minor plunge into the history of politics and the news media since the country was founded would find that the excesses of today were frequently exceeded in our past.  Trump and his news company's are not outliers but a rather common place occurrence.

An interesting bit of reading, for those inclined, who would like to get a bit better understanding of where the Republicans are playing the game with some degree of skill while the Democrats have been hopelessly lost out in the weeds somewhere I will link below.  It is a bit long and fairly academic but very on point, and something that those who are deeply suffering from TDS need to understand.

Quote
....
The post-truth, in other words, opens up a political project as well as a pedagogical one. The political project involves the power relations that compose truths, and the pedagogical project involves how we engage ourselves, each other, and the world in transformative processes.


Force in the market-place of ideas

The right wing knows all of this. They don't make appeals to the truth. They make appeals to beliefs and convictions. If those beliefs and desires contradict some set of evidence, then that evidence is fake. That is what Donald Trump means when he tweets "FAKE NEWS!" It isn't an assertion of what the truth really is (as if the news had some innate relationship to truth and constituted "the real"). It isn't an objection based on an understanding of language as neutral and objective containers of ideas, nor is it based on an understanding of language as a weapon of persuasion. Rather, the "FAKE NEWS" tweet is intended as an anticipatory interpellation. It's an assertion of belief of   what should be, a performative utterance meant to organize and intensify one side-his side-of the political. To reply that the news isn't fake, that the fake news designation only applies to news that he doesn't like, news that makes his side look bad, misses the point completely. Sure, the right wing preaches about the importance of "freedom of speech," but they clearly only mean their speech. They'll attack a left-wing academic for their tweets and try to get them fired while they protest against a campus banning a neo-Nazi speaker. Recently, Trump got backlash for sharing anti-Islamic propaganda videos from a neo-Nazi group in Britain. Their veracity was first called into question and then disproven. When confronted with this, Trump's press secretary totally disregarded the attack: "Whether it's a real video, the threat is real," she said.   [4]

This is why the right wing is winning: they know they have enemies and they have allies, and together they want to defeat those enemies. To defeat those enemies, they mobilize, organize, intervene, and act collectively. They imagine the future they want. They talk to each other, they create their own ideological bubbles from which to act, resist, take swings. They capture the state and wield it toward their ends. They don't care about what the other side thinks. They aren't trying to win us over. They believe in themselves and their movement. They don't think their people need to be enlightened by public intellectuals.....

If you want to win a knife fight you bring a knife or a gun...the truth is irrelevant.

http://www.hamptoninstitution.org/dont-bring-the-truth-to-a-knife-fight.html#.WkwSed9KuUm

The Hampton Institution snips are very interesting, but honestly this has been evident abut GOP political strategy over the last few decades.  Modern roots are of course with the Reagan revolution, but at least for this individual observer, Newt Gingrich and Frank Luntz really tipped the GOP towards this brand of politics in the mid 90s and various players have shepherded it along until Mitch McConnell became the prime expression of this style.  He of course is doing the bidding of the GOP donor class, with a propaganda foundation provided by Fox and other right wing media.

Yes, “they aren’t trying to win us over,” and in fact Democrats and others should not try to win the hopeless portion of “them” over, which is probably 25-30% of the electorate, that is hardened right wing conservative.  The battle continues to be for that elusive 10-30% of voters and citizens that are still open to reason, facts (yes, they do exist), emotional appeals, and constructive policy.

Giving up on facts and truth entirely, just because the “other side” doesn’t acknowledge it, would be a grave mistake.  But we also need to acknowledge a sizable portion of that side will never be persuaded with any type of appeal.  Focus on where hay can be made.

JimD

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 2272
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 6
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3324 on: January 03, 2018, 09:01:36 PM »
 OBW the 'shared facts' Sasse (to be fair to him) is most likely talking about are the neoliberal 'facts' which are the basis for the mainstream Democratic (Hillary/Obama) and Republican (Bush/Romney) consensus of how to run the country.  Trump threatens this consensus when he gives power and stage to folks like Bannon (who is basically a paleo-Libertarian or to use proper titles an anarcho-capitalist with a strong nationalist bent).

I reviewed what my 2017 predictions were in our little topic on New Years predictions from a year ago.  Not too bad actually.  I did pretty good in 2016 as well.  Let's take a little look at Trump and politics for the 2018 year and see what we can do - and be embarrassed by a year from now ha ha.

Trump will not get impeached.  There are many reasons for this.  Among them are:
In terms of fulfilling the Republican agenda to rework the USG he is succeeding admirably (remember they don't care what you think and are not trying to win you over) so they have no real incentive to get rid of him.  He is supporting just about everything they want to do and he has banished the Bannon cabal from direct hands on the levers of power.  He will do what they want and distract the opposition from their critical changes due to his almost daily twitter storms and frequent use of less than perfect 'facts'.  This all works to their advantage.  They are currently happily rewriting the structure of the 'Administrative State' as Bannon likes to call it.  The anarcho-capitalists (Libertarians) like Paul Ryan are like pigs rolling in shit right now.  They are changing the face of the USG for at least a decade if not more (trying to fix climate change in this environment is...unlikely?).

Mueller:  Bannon is likely correct on his emphasis that the issue for the Trump team is not 'collusion' (which, of course, is not a crime in any case) but money laundering, avoiding taxes, obstruction of justice and conspiracy.  Trump has been on the IRS's radar for a long time as a suspected money launderer (that is why he gets audited every year - unsuccessfully so far).  But the can of worms got opened by his firing of Comey and the appointing of the special prosecutor.  They have the ability now to really dig compared to before.  It is highly likely that the Trump businesses as well as the Kushner businesses have laundered money and avoided taxes.  Mueller has a good chance of digging this out of the swamp and being able to indict some principals.  Trump Jr, his brother and Kushner perhaps, but not necessarily, as these companies have a long history of being able to get by the IRS and their clever accountants and lawyers may have successfully insulated their employers from being able to be convicted.  And let us not forget that Mueller cannot indict Trump himself as that would violate DOJ policies put in place by Clinton and would be legitimate cause for Trump to fire Mueller (which we know he wants to do).  So Mueller is NOT going to indict Trump period.  He will hang anyone he finds who has committed one of the 4 items above - money laundering, tax avoidance, obstruction of justice or conspiracy who is not Trump.  If the chain works its way all the way up to Trump then the whole mess lands in the lap of Congress and they get to decide.  It will take Mueller most if not all of 2018 to get this far if he can.  But if this happens it will not happen in 2018 for certain as even 'if' the Democrats manage to take back both the House and Senate in the 2018 elections they will not be seated until 2019 and then the process has to work out.  And you need 2/3 in the Senate to impeach in any case and they will not have anywhere near that many votes no matter what.  If Trump leaves short of term it will only be because the Republicans force him to resign.  They are not going to force him to go before the next election as in their terms he is being successful and to do so would harm the franchise.  Plus if Trump Jr and Kushner get moved back to NY they will have even more control over him than they do now - what's not to like about that?  They would like someone like Romney (or even Pence) filling the seat but are willing to see if that can be managed in 2020 via normal means. 

The 2018 election.  The accepted 'shared fact' amongst the Democrats is that they are going to take the House and maybe the Senate in the election.  Here is a bold prediction.  They will do 'much' worse than they think they are going to do.  Why?  Check my post of few entries up and read it again.  The Republicans are executing a strategic strategy which they have been working on and building on for the last 30-40 years and they are disciplined about executing it.  The Democrats are already in the mode they just used with Clinton where they fell on their face.  They are trying to bring their 'shared facts' to a knife fight and the Republicans are not going to just bring a knife but also an AR-15 with a bump stock.  The Democrats are still trying to take the moderate suburban Republicans away from them by moving to the right and kicking the real liberals and the Progressives (bash them hippies!) to the curb.  Working class people?  Kind of dirty and deplorable and certainly not fitting in at their Hampton's fundraisers with the Hedgies.  This is a recipe for failure again.  As Einstein said "Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity."  The Democrats needed to learn from the election and Bernie and Trump's successes and modify their approach to winning. They have chose not to do so and will likely find out this was a mistake.  And don't think for a second that the Koch's and friends will not spend a billion or two to make sure they don't get hurt too bad in the election.  After all Trump just gave them a few hundred billion in extra change that is burning a hole in their pockets so it may as well get put to good use.

Once again, no one, other then here at the blog of course, is going to pay much if any attention to how much ice there is in the Arctic in Sept.  Unfortunately.  If we can manage to get a hundred million or so climate refuges moving across some global border that might work out better to get attention - but that is still a few years away I expect.

We will not nuke North Korea via a first strike. Though it would surely make life interesting.

We most likely will not be able to figure out a way to start a war with Iran - but we are working on it hard.  They, however, are not fools and likely will not help us out.  But Trump needs his own war and they are searching hard for a good one.  It is what Presidents do after all.

Ukraine.  Well we are being very provocative but the Russians have Putin and he is very likely to outplay us again as history has shown.

The biggest item is that we will continue to see the slow collapse of our civilization continue and this is pretty certain to continue for the remainder of our lives...and then it gets worse.

It's quiet out in the mountains...and peaceful.

 
We do not err because truth is difficult to see. It is visible at a glance. We err because this is more comfortable. Alexander Solzhenitsyn

How is it conceivable that all our technological progress - our very civilization - is like the axe in the hand of the pathological criminal? Albert Einstein

Neven

  • Administrator
  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 9470
    • View Profile
    • Arctic Sea Ice Blog
  • Liked: 1333
  • Likes Given: 617
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3325 on: January 03, 2018, 09:40:01 PM »
Mueller:  Bannon is likely correct on his emphasis that the issue for the Trump team is not 'collusion' (which, of course, is not a crime in any case) but money laundering, avoiding taxes, obstruction of justice and conspiracy.

But, Jim, Russiagate!  ::)
The enemy is within
Don't confuse me with him

E. Smith

AbruptSLR

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 19703
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 2268
  • Likes Given: 286
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3326 on: January 03, 2018, 09:46:26 PM »
Mueller:  Bannon is likely correct on his emphasis that the issue for the Trump team is not 'collusion' (which, of course, is not a crime in any case) but money laundering, avoiding taxes, obstruction of justice and conspiracy.

But, Jim, Russiagate!  ::)

I think that Russiagate falls under the 'conspiracy' category 8)
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

JimD

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 2272
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 6
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3327 on: January 03, 2018, 09:53:44 PM »
pileus

I saw this as I was posing my last.  I sort of covered some of your points in that but let me add to them.

Yes the Republican strategy is a long term one.  Its ideological beginning goes back to the time of FDR really.  It took time to develop and gel and has taken some different paths at times of course.  But the very wealthy and those of the Libertarian bent have worked this for a long time.  There is a reason that Ayn Rand is the philosopher they look up to the most.

Many may not know it but the father of the Koch brothers Charles and David, who torment our lives today, one Fred Koch was a founding member of the John Birch Society in 1958.  An anti-communist/Libertarian organization.  In 1971 David Koch was a founding member of the US Libertarian Party (a rebranding of a political/economic philosophy originally called anarcho-Capitalism in the late 1800's).  As we know the Koch brothers and their myrid of various think tanks and political entities have been pushing and funding much of the Republican agenda for the last 30-40 years.

I must disagree with your statement

Quote
...Yes, “they aren’t trying to win us over,” and in fact Democrats and others should not try to win the hopeless portion of “them” over, which is probably 25-30% of the electorate, that is hardened right wing conservative.  The battle continues to be for that elusive 10-30% of voters and citizens that are still open to reason, facts (yes, they do exist), emotional appeals, and constructive policy....

I think that the best science on human thought and behavior has shown pretty conclusively that almost no one (low single digits) have the actual ability to reason rationally and logically.  Even trained scientists can be shown to not be able to do this reliably.  This is the main reason that science tries to codify the process via the scientific method and peer review.  People are primarily driven by and make their decisons via subconscious mental processes (genetic triggers) as determined by our evolutionary development.  Thus your mention of emotional appeals is accurate.  But those appeals which work best are the ones in heavy use by others than Democrats.  Nationalism, populism, xenophobia, etc are the bread and butter of those who know how to use those appeals.  I see no evidence that the Democrats have any skill in this - and Trump certainly does have skill in this (if not much else).  The mainstream Democrats like Clinton (a moderate Republican in a pantsuit) do make some attempt of course but it is weak in comparison.

Quote
Giving up on facts and truth entirely, just because the “other side” doesn’t acknowledge it, would be a grave mistake.  But we also need to acknowledge a sizable portion of that side will never be persuaded with any type of appeal.  Focus on where hay can be made.

I disagree once again.  The 'grave mistake' is to lose for none of what you want to accomplish will happen if you lose.  So this is where the phrase "Winning isn't everything; it is the only thing." applies.  This is the lesson that the wealthy learned during the years of FDR and took it to heart.  You have to fight and fight to win no matter what.

Once again you speak of 'your' facts and truths as if they are the true word.  You may think this but the majority of people will not ever accept your version of the truth because 'their' facts and truths are different than yours and thus it is obvious to them that you have no idea what you are talking about.

You are never going to persuade anyone with reason.  People are persuaded by the winners as history has shown.  People subconsciously support the winners because they won - it is human nature. The winners get to define what is right, what is wrong, what happened, who was good and bad, what the 'facts and truths' are.  The losers do what they are told or else. 

Playing mainstream politics in this country will change nothing.  We need a revolution.


We do not err because truth is difficult to see. It is visible at a glance. We err because this is more comfortable. Alexander Solzhenitsyn

How is it conceivable that all our technological progress - our very civilization - is like the axe in the hand of the pathological criminal? Albert Einstein

gerontocrat

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 20370
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 5289
  • Likes Given: 69
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3328 on: January 03, 2018, 10:12:59 PM »
Mueller:  Bannon is likely correct on his emphasis that the issue for the Trump team is not 'collusion' (which, of course, is not a crime in any case) but money laundering, avoiding taxes, obstruction of justice and conspiracy.

But, Jim, Russiagate!  ::)
In the end it was tax evasion that put Al Capone in the slammer.
"Para a Causa do Povo a Luta Continua!"
"And that's all I'm going to say about that". Forrest Gump
"Damn, I wanted to see what happened next" (Epitaph)

AbruptSLR

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 19703
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 2268
  • Likes Given: 286
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3329 on: January 03, 2018, 10:22:31 PM »
Why would the Democratic leadership want to get rid of Trump before the mid-term elections, when Trump is doing such a good job of fragging (as in the use of a fragmentation grenade against one's own comrades in arms) the GOP?

Title: "Trump moves to crush the Bannon rebellion inside the GOP"

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/elections/trump-moves-crush-bannon-rebellion-inside-gop-n834366

Extract: "In a stunning 266-word statement of rebuke against his former campaign aide and White House strategist, a clearly infuriated Trump echoed and expanded on the criticisms that establishment Republicans have leveled against Bannon since he took over the Trump campaign in August 2016."

Edit: Note that per the linked article: "... Roy Moore was reportedly among those officers targeted by their own men".

Title: "The Forgotten History Of ‘Fragging’ In Vietnam"

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/the-forgotten-history-of-fragging-in-vietnam_us_5a1b77b6e4b0cee6c050939d
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

TerryM

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 6002
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 893
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3330 on: January 03, 2018, 10:27:58 PM »
JimD
It's indeed a pleasure to be reading your words again.


Your forecast is a little rosier than my own, most particularly WRT N. Korea. I don't think anything but a preemptive strike will set this thing off, and as you say, "Trump needs his own war".
Putin's actions in Syria will give Iran some breathing room, and he's proven more than capable of shutting down Ukrainian warmongering in the past.


No impeachment is on the horizon if only because no Democrat wants to face an incumbent Pence, just back from a successful Dragon Hunt in the 2020 elections. Democrats seem so preoccupied about looking under everyone's beds for Russians that the Republicans are being given a free hand. There are no knife fights because we won't send out a champion to face them.
I hope that the Mueller investigation doesn't blow up in our faces as that could give us 4 more years of Trump.


The second oil pipeline from Russia to China just opened, allowing 600K bbls/day to flow. This plus the Arctic gas field with LNG facility and fleet assure large dollar free trades that can only strengthen Putin and Xi's hands. A question for 2018 is whether the Saudi's begin selling eastward in Yuan.


Huge gold reserves, and markets in Russia and China are being built. Every Ruble or Yuan spent on gold is one that isn't spent buying American treasuries. It was fear of a gold backed African currency that lead to Gaddafi's murder, what would they think of a gold backed Yuan?


Bernie and Trump showed that corporate money doesn't win elections anymore, but the top Democrats, whose lifestyle depends on this influx are not about to shut off the taps. Just as you overtly hope for a climate disaster to wake folks up, I covertly hope for (another) electoral disaster for the Democrats so that they can finally see the writing on the wall and return to the beliefs of their ancestors.  I Sound like an old Testament Prophet howling in the wilderness.  8)
Terry

Neven

  • Administrator
  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 9470
    • View Profile
    • Arctic Sea Ice Blog
  • Liked: 1333
  • Likes Given: 617
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3331 on: January 03, 2018, 10:37:03 PM »
Much of what you write, Jim, echoes what Thomas Frank is saying in this recent interview (towards the end):



Excerpts:

Quote
To go back to Harvey Weinstein this is the broader question of the relationship between the Democratic party and celebrities. Look, they make a very simple calculation, they say Americans like to go to movies. Movies are one of the best things that our country does. We export them all around the world. It's a highly successful industry. It's our kind of industry, the Democrats say. It's creative class, all that kind of nonsense. It's our sort of thing.
What they don't understand is that it cuts both ways. Yes, Americans like to go to movies, but Americans hate aristocracy, and that's what celebrity is. There's something very deep in the American grain, we are democratic to the core in this country, another word for it by the way is populist, that we can't stand the idea of stars and celebrities.

(...)

The Republicans have, for whatever reason and I don't really know the answer to this, have become very, very, very good at the populist style at pretending to be a man of the people and acting like a man of the people, and doing the motions, and talking the languages. Democrats are very uncomfortable with it anymore. This is largely a reflection of two things; one, the Republicans have studied history and particularly the history of the '30s. This is their disaster period. The Republican party was almost destroyed in the 1930s, and it was all at the hands of these left wingers and these Huey Long types and Franklin Roosevelt, at the hands of populism and because they had been identified with Wall Street. They know the pitfalls of that.

They know the dangers of being identified with Wall Street, and they know the dangers of being on the wrong side of populism. Ever since then, they have done everything in their power to act like that, and to pretend to be a man of the people, and to work against what they actually are, which is basically a side arm of organized money. They're a weapon wielded by organized money. The Democrats have no such history. They have no such fear because that didn't happen to them. They never learned that lesson. The lesson they learned is a very different one. If you look at what the Democratic party is today, as opposed to what it was when you and I were younger, it's a very different animal.

It is the party of the professional class today, it's not the party of organized labor anymore. It's not the party of the people, it's not the party of those people in the small towns in Missouri, it's not Harry Truman's bunch anymore. It is the party of the professional class. Hillary Clinton was their nominee for a good reason. She was a sort of perfect idealized version of themselves, this hyper-wonkish, Ivy-League educated, very, very, very competent person who's able to discuss policy and talk very rapidly and do these things. That's their image of what a Democrat should be.

Most Americans look at that image and they say, "That is an elite." That's not the elite, that's not big fat money bags, Monopoly man, but that is an elite. That's the guy that fires you from your job. That's the guy that grades your paper in high school and tells you that you did a lousy job. The professional class is an elite. They're the one that judge you when you get a speeding ticket. You go right down the list, that is life's officer corps. And to identify yourself with this elite in the way that Democrats have is a catastrophic mistake, BUT THEY CAN'T SEE IT.

They don't (want to) see it, but Trump does (an idiot/moron, right?), which is why it's so easy for him to play everyone. But let us all believe in 'shared facts' and 'put our values on the ballot' and want 'good things, not bad things', because 'we're not Trump/Them'.

As if Trump isn't creating enough distraction as it is from the real issues to thwart the real visions and ideas to turn this thing around (yes, it requires a lot of thinking about what it is you actually stand for).
The enemy is within
Don't confuse me with him

E. Smith

AbruptSLR

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 19703
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 2268
  • Likes Given: 286
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3332 on: January 03, 2018, 11:42:43 PM »
"Oh what tangled webs we weave when first we practice to deceive"

Title: "The history of Trump and Bannon’s complicated relationship"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2018/01/03/the-history-of-trump-and-bannons-complicated-relationship/?utm_term=.74b450744d45

Extract: " According to a forthcoming book by journalist Michael Wolff, in which Bannon is quoted extensively, Trump only put Bannon in charge of his campaign at the urging of major donors Robert and Rebekah Mercer. Here's an excerpt:

. . . when the Mercers presented their plan to take over the campaign and install their lieutenants, Steve Bannon and Kellyanne Conway, Trump didn’t resist. He only expressed vast incomprehension about why anyone would want to do that. “This thing,” he told the Mercers, “is so f---ed up.”

As Bannon's profile rose, Trump reportedly grew resentful. A February 2017 Time magazine cover that dubbed Bannon “the great manipulator” continued to bother the president two months later, according to the New York Times."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

pileus

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 536
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 45
  • Likes Given: 9
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3333 on: January 04, 2018, 12:49:12 AM »
I have put this post here and not in "RussiaGate" as the quoted book is about the Trump Presidency in general, although the article is almost entirely Trump / Bannon / Russiagate. This perhaps reflects the the current media obsession that diverts attention from the damage to science, the environment and US society in general happening now, will  continue to happen, and that, in the long-term, may be seen as far more important.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jan/03/donald-trump-russia-steve-bannon-michael-wolff

Quote
Trump Tower meeting with Russians 'treasonous', Bannon says in explosive book
    • Former White House strategist quoted in Fire and Fury, by Michael Wolff
      Bannon: ‘They’re going to crack Don Junior like an egg on national TV

    Donald Trump’s former chief strategist Steve Bannon has described the Trump Tower meeting between the president’s son and a group of Russians during the 2016 election campaign as “treasonous” and “unpatriotic”, according to an explosive new book seen by the Guardian.

    Bannon, speaking to author Michael Wolff, warned that the investigation into alleged collusion with the Kremlin will focus on money laundering and predicted: “They’re going to crack Don Junior like an egg on national TV.”
[/list]

There is so much to chew on today, most of it feeling like a soap opera or gossip rag, in the Guardian article and now this, the biggest news drop of the day from NyMag. Who knows where the lines of fact and embellishment meet, but it is most certainly full of revealing and cringe worthy details regarding the current President of the US.

Donald Trump Didn’t Want to Be President
One year ago: the plan to lose, and the administration’s shocked first days.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/01/michael-wolff-fire-and-fury-book-donald-trump.html

pileus

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 536
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 45
  • Likes Given: 9
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3334 on: January 04, 2018, 01:06:23 AM »
JimD, your forecast looks solid across most dimensions.  I do however think you are misreading the electoral environment for 2018 to some degree.  Absolutely concur how the GOP and it’s machine will approach the fight, in fact I’m expecting a ramp up of outright and in the open voter supression, because it’s really the only way to avoid a bloodbath for the Republicans.  There is so much anti Trump and anti GOP sentiment and disgust that a wave is indeed setting up for Democrats.  All of the special elections and the recent VA and AL elections have only confirmed that environment.  Yes, they don’t care how we feel, but as elements of the tax bill are analyzed and Ryan goes after entitlements, it’s only going to build the playing field for Dems.  The generic ballot suggest a comfortable margin in the House for Dems, while the Senate is less certain.  Dems should swing a few seats, but they have so many to defend.  Dems have no need for a hard progressive swing or Bernie style rhetoric to retake the House, although progressive and far left candidates will do well in a king tide that lifts all boats.  There will be a massive influx of Democratic women running for office, and state and local level races will see this dynamic.  I certainly could be wrong, but would expect only some sort of black swan to change the dynamics at this point.

pileus

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 536
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 45
  • Likes Given: 9
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3335 on: January 04, 2018, 01:43:37 AM »

Quote
Giving up on facts and truth entirely, just because the “other side” doesn’t acknowledge it, would be a grave mistake.  But we also need to acknowledge a sizable portion of that side will never be persuaded with any type of appeal.  Focus on where hay can be made.

I disagree once again.  The 'grave mistake' is to lose for none of what you want to accomplish will happen if you lose.  So this is where the phrase "Winning isn't everything; it is the only thing." applies.  This is the lesson that the wealthy learned during the years of FDR and took it to heart.  You have to fight and fight to win no matter what.

Once again you speak of 'your' facts and truths as if they are the true word.  You may think this but the majority of people will not ever accept your version of the truth because 'their' facts and truths are different than yours and thus it is obvious to them that you have no idea what you are talking about.

You are never going to persuade anyone with reason.  People are persuaded by the winners as history has shown.  People subconsciously support the winners because they won - it is human nature. The winners get to define what is right, what is wrong, what happened, who was good and bad, what the 'facts and truths' are.  The losers do what they are told or else. 

Playing mainstream politics in this country will change nothing.  We need a revolution.

There are certainly areas of objective truth and facts.  To suggest otherwise comes across as trying too hard to be edgy, or perhaps channeling that deep experience from the psilocybin trip.  You seem to be referring more to frame of reference, life experience, and opinions, perhaps even faith. One can believe something, but it doesn’t necessarily make it a verifiable or testable fact.

18 and 20 feel like the winners will be riding a snap back revulsion from what we are experiencing today.  I’d be willing to bet that looks more maintstream/left of center than any sort of revolution.  Of course anything is possible these days.

TerryM

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 6002
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 893
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3336 on: January 04, 2018, 02:42:34 AM »

There is so much to chew on today, most of it feeling like a soap opera or gossip rag, in the Guardian article and now this, the biggest news drop of the day from NyMag. Who knows where the lines of fact and embellishment meet, but it is most certainly full of revealing and cringe worthy details regarding the current President of the US.

Donald Trump Didn’t Want to Be President
One year ago: the plan to lose, and the administration’s shocked first days
.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/01/michael-wolff-fire-and-fury-book-donald-trump.html
Your linked article is a bombshell!
If 1/10th of it is true - and it certainly has an air of truthiness - it's the scariest assessment of the President, and his "inner circle" that I've ever read.


I've never been captured by the idea of actual collusion between Trump and Putin, but the concept of another idiot manchild running the country is terrifying. Bush Jr. at least had handlers that could keep him in place. Not a good place by any means, but in a place of their choosing.


The good news was that Hillary lost. The bad news is that Trump won.
Terry

Buddy

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3379
  • Go DUCKS!!
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 49
  • Likes Given: 34
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3337 on: January 04, 2018, 06:58:38 PM »
Possible "flip" in Mississippi come November 2018 senate race:

http://www.sunherald.com/opinion/opn-columns-blogs/charlie-mitchell/article190574449.html

Is the south rising once again?  Alabama....Mississippi...

FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

AbruptSLR

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 19703
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 2268
  • Likes Given: 286
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3338 on: January 04, 2018, 08:40:50 PM »
Who knows what influence Bannon had on Trump's policy on China:

Title: "New book: Steve Bannon told Roger Ailes that China is on the verge of turning into Nazi Germany"

http://www.businessinsider.com/steve-bannon-china-nazi-germany-roger-ailes-2018-1

Extract: "In Bannon's eyes, China was primed to take a strongly nationalistic turn similar to the one taken by Germany in the years leading up to World War II. That made the strong-arm trade policies Bannon favored toward China necessary to combat the country, according to Wolff.

"The Chinese, like the Germans, are the most rational people in the world, until they’re not," Bannon told Ailes. "And they’re gonna flip like Germany in the '30s. You're going to have a hypernationalist state, and once that happens, you can't put the genie back in the bottle.""
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

Alexander555

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 2503
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 185
  • Likes Given: 49
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3339 on: January 04, 2018, 09:23:33 PM »
Who knows what influence Bannon had on Trump's policy on China:

Title: "New book: Steve Bannon told Roger Ailes that China is on the verge of turning into Nazi Germany"

http://www.businessinsider.com/steve-bannon-china-nazi-germany-roger-ailes-2018-1

Extract: "In Bannon's eyes, China was primed to take a strongly nationalistic turn similar to the one taken by Germany in the years leading up to World War II. That made the strong-arm trade policies Bannon favored toward China necessary to combat the country, according to Wolff.

"The Chinese, like the Germans, are the most rational people in the world, until they’re not," Bannon told Ailes. "And they’re gonna flip like Germany in the '30s. You're going to have a hypernationalist state, and once that happens, you can't put the genie back in the bottle.""

I don't think you can compare China with Germany in the 30's. Germany was ruined by war and hyperinflation. And China is climbing all the way to the top. What is more possible, is that they become like the US. Boots on the ground to defend their interests. Europe has nothing to worry about, here is nothing they can use. But all the rest. They should be building walls.

Buddy

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3379
  • Go DUCKS!!
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 49
  • Likes Given: 34
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3340 on: January 04, 2018, 10:24:43 PM »
The drumbeats grow louder.  Why has Trump only given ONE.....count "them", ONE.....news conference since getting elected:

1)  Why isn't he giving more news conferences?
2)  Why is he only taking softball questions from his co-conspirators at FOX?
3)  Is the loss of his mental edge quickening?

He has a "layup" coming on January 30th.  The "State of the Union Address" is usually a layup for presidents.  It's prepared.....all he has to do is read the script.  Easy peasy....right?  Well...it SHOULD BE.  But we'll see.

In the meantime.....voices will grow louder that want him to give open press conferences.

FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

idunno

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 194
  • wonders are many
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 7
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3341 on: January 04, 2018, 10:48:15 PM »
WRT China, the Trump administration's perceived hostility to the whole Muslim world, gives them the opportunity to take over as the major champion/sponsor of Palestinian/Arab interests in international fora.

Israel gets a US Embassy in Jerusalem, and China gets a "sphere of influence" from Karachi to Dar Es Salaam, across to Marrakesh, back up to Istanbul, and back to Karachi again, within which it may/has become  dangerous for Americans to venture.

If Trump cuts the Palestine aid budget, as threatened, I'd imagine the Chinese would see US$300M to "capture" all of this territory - or all of those hearts and minds and markets at least - as the best bargain made with a Manhattan realtor in all histoty. (Yes, including, the Dutch original purchase of the island from the native Americans. Better than that.)

Buddy

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3379
  • Go DUCKS!!
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 49
  • Likes Given: 34
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3342 on: January 05, 2018, 01:23:31 PM »
I'm sure the Democrats will find a way to screw things up....but if I were a Democrat, I do four things...and IN THIS ORDER:

1)  Come forward with SPECIFIC POLICY IDEAS (A:  tax change that is revenue NEUTRAL, but increases rates of the upper tier...and lowers rates of middle income earners, B:  Infrastructure...lay out an infrastructure policy that moves the US towards renewable energy, new transportation, etc.  Those are only TWO ideas...but you get the idea.  SPECIFIC PLANS.

2)  Every candidate for the House or Senate needs to post 10 years of their tax returns.  TRANSPARENCY.  LIVE IT.

3)  Come forward with SPECIFIC IDEAS to move our election process forward:  (1) end gerrymandering, (2) end Citizens United, etc.

4)  Paint EVERY CANDIDATE that supports Trump...with Trump.  This is the LAST ITEM...and it is NOT the most important....but anyone who supports a lying POS like Trump needs to be tarred.  Right Ted Cruz......
« Last Edit: January 05, 2018, 06:42:34 PM by Buddy »
FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

Buddy

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3379
  • Go DUCKS!!
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 49
  • Likes Given: 34
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3343 on: January 05, 2018, 06:59:22 PM »
Looks like Donnie has a readymade candidate to replace Wilbur Ross when Wilbur goes to jail for money laundering through his Cyprus contacts.  Don't you think that Ivanka Trump would make a GREAT Secretary of Commerce?

She would fit in with Secretary of Energy Rick Perry........who doesn't know shit from shinola about nuclear energy or renewable energy.

She would also fit in nicely with the Secretary of Housing and Urban Development Ben Carson...who knows absolutely nothing about housing OR urban development.

Here is what Ivanka said BEFORE the latest numbers were announced today for the December jobs report:

DOW ABOVE 25,000 POINTS FOR THE FIRST TIME IN HISTORY

250,000 NEW JOBS ADDED IN DECEMBER, BEATING ESTIMATES

LAYOFFS LOWEST SINCE 1990!


Well....at least she got 1 out of 3 right.  The DOW is above 25,000.  However....jobs added were only 148,000 (ONLY 102,000 off)...........and layoffs are NOT the lowest in history.  In fact...the last 3 weekly jobless claims are UP.  And with the latest monthly jobs report just released....shows that Donnie should be worried about a POSSIBLE SLOWDOWN.

Now....the weekly jobless claims are notoriously jumpy....so we'll need at least another 2 or 3   weeks to see if there is any increase in jobless claims that looks more serious.  And the monthly jobs report can also jump around a bit....so there is no hurry for Democrats to declare victory YET....  But if I were Donnie or Ivanka.....I would try to temper my lying a little bit...  :o

https://shareblue.com/trumps-disastrous-presidency-crashes-job-growth-to-6-year-low/

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/challenge-trump-job-growth-slowing-182411420.html
« Last Edit: January 05, 2018, 08:06:05 PM by Buddy »
FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

Sigmetnow

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 25753
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 1153
  • Likes Given: 430
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3344 on: January 05, 2018, 09:36:03 PM »
Author and columnist Michael Wolff was given extraordinary access to the Trump administration and now details the feuds, the fights and the alarming chaos he witnessed while reporting what turned into a new book.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/michael-wolff-my-insane-year-inside-trumps-white-house-1071504

“Everybody was painfully aware of the increasing pace of [Trump’s] repetitions. It used to be inside of 30 minutes he'd repeat, word-for-word and expression-for-expression, the same three stories — now it was within 10 minutes. Indeed, many of his tweets were the product of his repetitions — he just couldn't stop saying something.”
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

Neven

  • Administrator
  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 9470
    • View Profile
    • Arctic Sea Ice Blog
  • Liked: 1333
  • Likes Given: 617
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3345 on: January 06, 2018, 12:35:39 PM »
Another perspective on the Wolff stuff, giving some more evidence of collusion with Israel, Bannon getting dropped by the Mercers, the meeting with a Russian lawyer and British music producer in Trump tower, and so on:

The enemy is within
Don't confuse me with him

E. Smith

Buddy

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3379
  • Go DUCKS!!
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 49
  • Likes Given: 34
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3346 on: January 06, 2018, 02:11:15 PM »
Who is going to be Donnie's "protector" in the department of justice?  Once Sessions is out...will Donnie nominate his buddy Scott Pruitt....now that Scott is done ravaging the environment?

If I had no ethics....and I wanted someone who lies with ease...and doesn't give a rats ass about law or ethics...Scottie would definitely be my pick.  I'm sure Hillary would have chosen someone like Scottie...😳😳😳😳
FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

Neven

  • Administrator
  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 9470
    • View Profile
    • Arctic Sea Ice Blog
  • Liked: 1333
  • Likes Given: 617
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3347 on: January 06, 2018, 03:23:15 PM »
Could you please leave out the lesser-evil-trolling?
The enemy is within
Don't confuse me with him

E. Smith

AbruptSLR

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 19703
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 2268
  • Likes Given: 286
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3348 on: January 06, 2018, 05:27:18 PM »
Here is an opinion piece on the logic for Trump to start a hot war with North Korea in order to maintain his presidency:

Title: "How Does Trump Trump Trump? Start a War."

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/how-does-trump-trump-trump-start-a-war_us_5a4f977be4b0f9b24bf31699

Extract: "We have never negotiated peace with Korea. Just a cease fire. Engaging in conflict there would be, relatively, pretty easy. President Truman ordered forces into North Korea in 1950 and didn’t get Congressional approval. This would merely be a continuation of that action after decades of failed attempts to gain diplomatic compliance from the North Korean regime. There might be a way to drag the UN along, given Korea’s unique status.

… Trump could extend his time in office almost indefinitely by dragging out a war that would keep him at arm’s length from his past, and from impeachment in the House, and trial in the Senate. A wartime president might even get the backing from his GOP-dominated Congress to suspend or kill the Mueller investigation.

The War Powers Resolution of 1973 gives the president ninety (90) days to act before requiring a declaration of war with Congress. Unlike Truman, Trump will not get UN cooperation in any conflict with North Korea where the U.S. is an aggressor."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

Sigmetnow

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 25753
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 1153
  • Likes Given: 430
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3349 on: January 06, 2018, 06:31:59 PM »
Trump Could Destroy the Entire Human Species, Says Yale Psychiatrist Who Warned Congress Members
Quote
After a series of tweets from Trump that appeared to threaten North Korea with nuclear war, Lee and hundreds of her colleagues at the National Coalition of Concerned Mental Health Experts issued a statement calling into question his mental health and psychological fitness for the presidency.

“Would someone from [North Korean Leader Kim Jong-un's] depleted and food starved regime please inform him that I too have a Nuclear Button, but it is a much bigger & more powerful one than his, and my Button works!" the president tweeted on Tuesday night.

A number of mental health experts have voiced concerns about Trump’s mental health for months; Lee even edited a book of 27 essays on the president’s mental status, The Dangerous Case of Donald Trump, which was published in October. (In that book, noted linguist and activist Noam Chomsky also made comments regarding the nuclear threat Trump may pose to the human species’ survival.)
...

What Lee would say is that a history of violence—like Trump’s “verbal aggressiveness, history of boasting about sexual assault, history of inciting violence at his rallies, and history of endorsing violence in his key public speeches”—is the best predictor of future violence. “He has also shown an attraction to violence and powerful weapons," she said, including nuclear weapons. "He has also repeatedly taunted a hostile nation."
...
There have been additional concerning signs oustide the president's social media activity, she said, including the interview Trump did with New York Times reporter Michael Schmidt in late December. Trump’s speech patterns, Lee said, may illuminate the state of the president's cognitive abilities. “He cannot seem to finish sentences, he derails from his line of thinking, he has loose associations and he jumps from one topic or another,” she said. These things could indicate a psychiatric or medical condition, she said. 

Quote
Trump also tweeted on Saturday morning that "throughout my life, my two greatest assets have been mental stability and being, like, really smart."

“Deflecting or projecting are often concerning signs,” she said. “Usually, as someone becomes mentally impaired, they lose the ability to consider the possibility that something could be wrong.” Vehement denial is almost a sure sign of illness, she said.
http://www.newsweek.com/trump-could-destroy-entire-human-species-says-yale-psychiatrist-who-warned-772328
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.