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Poll

Who are you going to vote for?

Clinton
31 (70.5%)
Johnson
2 (4.5%)
Stein
6 (13.6%)
Trump
1 (2.3%)
Not going to vote / going to spoil ballot
4 (9.1%)

Total Members Voted: 44

Voting closed: November 26, 2016, 07:11:49 AM

Author Topic: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")  (Read 259794 times)

pileus

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3400 on: January 14, 2018, 03:48:24 PM »
Putting all the noise and nonsense aside, Dems now have a +17 leading the generic ballot, suggesting a wave of tsunami like proportions in November.  The Senate is now also in play.

https://poll.qu.edu/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=2512


TerryM

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3401 on: January 14, 2018, 11:44:55 PM »
Well I'm certainly relieved by those poll numbers.  ;)

I thought I was actually going to need to donate time or money or ... something. With a 17 point lead we can rest easy knowing Nancy will taking care of donations, then she can hire whatever help she needs with no need for volunteers.

What a relief.  :)

Terry

Pmt111500

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3402 on: January 15, 2018, 04:50:28 AM »
The Polls said Trump would lose. Please make sure you get to vote. The numbers on polls distract the sensible people of the main goal which should be the pervasive acceptance of physics in government. This cannot be done by voting any republican candidate, so the republican party should be dissolved where possible and cast into permanent minority (abt. to the 5% they really represent (the winners of the organized stock market crashes)) elsewhere. I'm really glad I'm not in a position in which I'd have to see them. Their behavior and babble forces decent people to lie in order to keep polite.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2018, 05:35:28 AM by Pmt111500 »
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Rob Dekker

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3403 on: January 15, 2018, 07:30:09 AM »
An artist has used a projector to beam a display onto a Trump hotel, which features a rude word the President has recently become associated with :

https://www.indy100.com/article/donald-trump-us-president-hotel-washington-projection-robin-bell-viral-video-8158226

Rob Dekker

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3404 on: January 15, 2018, 08:10:39 AM »

pileus

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3405 on: January 15, 2018, 03:44:50 PM »
Well I'm certainly relieved by those poll numbers.  ;)

I thought I was actually going to need to donate time or money or ... something. With a 17 point lead we can rest easy knowing Nancy will taking care of donations, then she can hire whatever help she needs with no need for volunteers.

What a relief.  :)

Terry

It’s a snapshot of the current environment, and suggests that even more momentum can be harnessed with organization, voter registration and GOTV efforts.

It’s something to build on, but of course the naysayers and cynics will dismiss it.

SteveMDFP

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3406 on: January 15, 2018, 04:34:14 PM »


I wish this forum had a thumbs-up feature now.

Add to this list a fiscal surplus. Instead of national debt, Norway has a sovereign wealth fund.


Hefaistos

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3407 on: January 15, 2018, 09:23:28 PM »


I wish this forum had a thumbs-up feature now.

Add to this list a fiscal surplus. Instead of national debt, Norway has a sovereign wealth fund.

Norway is a more or less socialist place. Our previous minister of industry (Björn Rosengren) once called it in public "the last soviet state". He got pretty scandalized for that, but in some ways he was right. USA has freedom.

Bruce Steele

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3408 on: January 15, 2018, 09:40:51 PM »
Even " freedom" can be a vice.

magnamentis

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3409 on: January 15, 2018, 10:52:34 PM »


I wish this forum had a thumbs-up feature now.

Add to this list a fiscal surplus. Instead of national debt, Norway has a sovereign wealth fund.

some of us proposed several times, many reply posts and following quarrels could be avoided by a simple button of apprciation/accordance or however we wanna call it.

however just using the opportunity to thumbup both while shit hole is a bit rood for a nice and great place that got a bit out of hand lately ;)
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Rob Dekker

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3410 on: January 16, 2018, 07:19:43 AM »
Norway is a more or less socialist place. Our previous minister of industry (Björn Rosengren) once called it in public "the last soviet state". He got pretty scandalized for that, but in some ways he was right. USA has freedom.

Which 'freedom' in the USA are you referring too ?
Let's start with the first amendment : freedom of the press.
Here. the 2017 report by Reporters Without Borders (RSF) is just out, and Norway takes 1st place the world :
https://rsf.org/en/ranking

The US holds spot 43, right after Burkina Faso.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2018, 07:26:33 AM by Rob Dekker »

Rob Dekker

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3411 on: January 16, 2018, 07:23:55 AM »
however just using the opportunity to thumbup both while shit hole is a bit rood for a nice and great place that got a bit out of hand lately ;)

You are being 'politically correct' while the US president is insulting every freedom and liberty we ever held dear.

Let me try another truth. Maybe you like this better :


Sleepy

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3412 on: January 16, 2018, 09:57:19 AM »
Norway is a more or less socialist place. Our previous minister of industry (Björn Rosengren) once called it in public "the last soviet state". He got pretty scandalized for that, but in some ways he was right. USA has freedom.

Which 'freedom' in the USA are you referring too ?
Maybe he's referring to corporate freedom? The Norwegian state is controlling and regulating theirs a bit more and that's also the likely reason for that stupid quote Björn Rosengren (S) made in the 90's, when the Swedish Social Demokrats themselves were busy leaving their roots and kissing corporate asses, which also made a lot of old school social democrats pretty upset.

But compared to the US, there are no huge differences between the Scandinavian countries, so one should be careful when comparing with political labels and hints to russia. That said, Norway is slightly different and they also built a lot of their wealth on oil, so they will most likely have some more trouble coming their way.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/nov/16/oil-and-gas-shares-dip-as-norways-central-bank-advises-oslo-to-divest
Norway is also the world’s 7:th largest annual exporter of emissions.
http://priceofoil.org/content/uploads/2017/08/The-Skys-Limit-Norway-1.pdf
But as that Norweigan court recently decided; it's not our problem if others want to create emissions with the oil we produce. :)
Omnia mirari, etiam tritissima.

Hefaistos

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3413 on: January 16, 2018, 01:21:54 PM »
Norway is a more or less socialist place. Our previous minister of industry (Björn Rosengren) once called it in public "the last soviet state". He got pretty scandalized for that, but in some ways he was right. USA has freedom.

Which 'freedom' in the USA are you referring too ?
Let's start with the first amendment : freedom of the press.
Here. the 2017 report by Reporters Without Borders (RSF) is just out, and Norway takes 1st place the world :
https://rsf.org/en/ranking

The US holds spot 43, right after Burkina Faso.
All those great things in Norway like free education, free healthcare etc., aren't free at all, that's just leftist propagande. They are paid for by some of the world's highest taxes, as in the rest of Scandinavia. USA has a freedom of choice that you won't have in Norway (or many other European countries)

Sleepy

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3414 on: January 16, 2018, 01:37:32 PM »
I was completely wrong...
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TerryM

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3415 on: January 16, 2018, 01:42:28 PM »

All those great things in Norway like free education, free healthcare etc., aren't free at all, that's just leftist propagande. They are paid for by some of the world's highest taxes, as in the rest of Scandinavia. USA has a freedom of choice that you won't have in Norway (or many other European countries)


If you agree that living in a healthy, well educated country benefits all of the citizenry, shouldn't the costs then also be shared?
Terry

Sleepy

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3416 on: January 16, 2018, 02:10:03 PM »
One party here who might express it like Hefaistos would be SD, the Sweden Democrats.

In Norway (and Scandinavia) both left and right say; no thanks!
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-immigration-norway/thanks-but-no-thanks-norwegians-reject-trumps-immigration-offer-idUSKBN1F11QK
While hundreds of thousands of Norwegians emigrated to the U.S. in the 19th century, just 502 out of a population of 5.3 million people moved there in 2016, down 59 from the previous year, according to Statistics Norway.
Christian Christensen, an American professor of journalism at Stockholm University in neighboring Sweden, tweeted:

“Of course people from #Norway would love to move to a country where people are far more likely to be shot, live in poverty, get no healthcare because they’re poor, get no paid parental leave or subsidized daycare and see fewer women in political power. #Shithole”
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Alexander555

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3417 on: January 16, 2018, 03:05:51 PM »
Norway is a more or less socialist place. Our previous minister of industry (Björn Rosengren) once called it in public "the last soviet state". He got pretty scandalized for that, but in some ways he was right. USA has freedom.

Which 'freedom' in the USA are you referring too ?
Let's start with the first amendment : freedom of the press.
Here. the 2017 report by Reporters Without Borders (RSF) is just out, and Norway takes 1st place the world :
https://rsf.org/en/ranking

The US holds spot 43, right after Burkina Faso.
All those great things in Norway like free education, free healthcare etc., aren't free at all, that's just leftist propagande. They are paid for by some of the world's highest taxes, as in the rest of Scandinavia. USA has a freedom of choice that you won't have in Norway (or many other European countries)

I think it's mainly payed by oil and gas. They have a state fund that's worth more than a trillion. The income from that fund is several dozens of billions a year.

Hefaistos

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3418 on: January 16, 2018, 03:21:38 PM »
Norway: In 2012 the total tax revenue was 42.2% of the gross domestic product (GDP). Many direct and indirect taxes exist. The most important taxes — in terms of revenue — are VAT, income tax in the petroleum sector, employers’ social security contributions and tax on "ordinary income" for persons.

In 2009, the total tax revenue was 41.0% of the gross domestic product (GDP). Of the OECD member countries Denmark, Sweden, Belgium, Italy, France, Finland and Austria had a higher tax level than Norway in 2009. The tax level in Norway has fluctuated between 40 and 45% of GDP since the 1970s.

Sweden has around 43% tax/GDP
USA has around 25 % tax/GDP

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Norway

Hefaistos

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3419 on: January 16, 2018, 03:27:01 PM »

All those great things in Norway like free education, free healthcare etc., aren't free at all, that's just leftist propagande. They are paid for by some of the world's highest taxes, as in the rest of Scandinavia. USA has a freedom of choice that you won't have in Norway (or many other European countries)


If you agree that living in a healthy, well educated country benefits all of the citizenry, shouldn't the costs then also be shared?
Terry

Agreed.
I just thought that the poster that Rob showed us is a rather poor piece of propaganda. Things are paid for. Yes, people in Scandinavia are 'socialists', it's their democratic choice, they like it that way.

Sleepy

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3420 on: January 16, 2018, 04:19:22 PM »
Meh... And in which ways were Björn Rosengren right?

I know he's happy today because he got his job as chairman of the Norwegian-Swedish Chamber of Commerce thanks to that stupid statement.
Here's their next after work, anyone interested to mingle and wine with people from Preem while discussing how we can run a profitable business without making (too much) impact on this planet?
http://nshk.se/?p=2625
 ::)
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Rob Dekker

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3421 on: January 17, 2018, 03:11:10 AM »
I just thought that the poster that Rob showed us is a rather poor piece of propaganda. Things are paid for. Yes, people in Scandinavia are 'socialists', it's their democratic choice, they like it that way.

Socialism (which is really 'democratic socialism' in Scandinavia) seems to work out quite well for them. They all score extremely high on the 'happiness' chard, with Norway number one :
http://worldhappiness.report/ed/2017/

And the US with all its (corporate) freedom ?
From the report :
Happiness has fallen in America

The USA is a story of reduced happiness. In 2007 the USA ranked 3rd among the OECD countries; in 2016 it came 19th. The reasons are declining social support and increased corruption (see Chapter 7) and it is these same factors that explain why the Nordic countries do so much better.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2018, 03:21:04 AM by Rob Dekker »

Rob Dekker

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3422 on: January 17, 2018, 03:53:15 AM »
Sweden has around 43% tax/GDP
USA has around 25 % tax/GDP

If the difference amounts to the 'freedom' you are talking about, I have some news :

- The 25% tax rate you quote above is an average. If you have income from 'labor' you pay a higher rate. If you are rich, and you have income from 'capital' you pay a much lower rate.
There is also a very big difference between the states. Here in California we pay up to 13% state tax on top of federal tax.

- I understand you have universal health care in Sweden. Here in the US we don't. And costs are exploding. Health care insurance for a family here in California is now something like $2500/month. That's $30,000.- / year, thank you very much. If you earn minimum wage, you simply CANNOT AFFORD health insurance here in the US (at least not without Obamacare).
Health care is one area where 'capitalism' doesn't work, because in a free market nobody wants to insure a sick person.

- If you want to go to college here in the US, you are going to pay a lot. You sometimes can get a loan to pay for your education, but interest rates are very high, because the risks for insurers are quite high.
Education is another area where 'capitalism' does not work since nobody wants to lend money to students with a low chance of succeeding.

These are just some examples about your claims of 'freedom' in the US, which in real life do not exist for people that are not rich. And then we are not even talking about 'freedom of the press' where the US scores abysmal as I pointed out above (even below Burkina Faso, one of these "shit hole" countries).

On ALL these issues, the 'democratic socialism' of the Nordic countries beats the US big time, and it has the numbers to show it in terms of happiness of its population.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2018, 04:23:50 AM by Rob Dekker »

colchonero

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3423 on: January 17, 2018, 03:58:52 AM »
Norway is definitely not a good example of working socialism. They are not all rich because of socialism. First of all, the country has so many natural resources and oil. They have free market, huge majority of companies have private owners, their economy is largely based on capitalism. The funny part is, since 2013 after a long time (20+years)  their prime minister is a conservative, from Conservative Party, and she was re elected, with conservatives cutting the Labour Party lead to less than 2% in last election cycle.  And I checked it, their ideology is conservatism, economic liberalism, they are for free market, tax cuts, small government etc. To be fair they support welfare state.

And yes, Norway has some socialist laws(policies), which I think aren't good, but that doesn't make them socialist country(it's a mix), or gives a good example how socialism can work.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2018, 04:08:01 AM by colchonero »

sidd

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3424 on: January 17, 2018, 04:54:52 AM »
Cornel West:

"The political triumph of Donald Trump is a symbol and symptom – not cause or origin – of our imperial meltdown. Trump is neither alien nor extraneous to American culture and history. In fact, he is as American as apple pie.
...
His triumph flows from the implosion of a Republican party establishment beholden to big money, big military and big scapegoating of vulnerable peoples of color, LGBTQ peoples, immigrants, Muslims, and women.

It also flows from a Democratic party establishment beholden to big money, big military, and the clever deployment of peoples of color, LGBTQ peoples, immigrants, Muslims and women to hide and conceal the lies and crimes of neoliberal policies here and abroad; and from a corporate media establishment that aided and abetted Trump owing to high profits and revenues."


West goes on to make a point that will, no doubt, be loudly contested, that Obama was a necessary, but not sufficient condition for Trump:


"The painful truth is there is no Donald Trump without Barack Obama, no neofascist stirrings without neoliberal policies – all within the imperial zone. Obama was the brilliant black smiling face of the American empire. Trump is the know-nothing white cruel face of the American empire.

Obama did not produce Trump, but his Wall Street–friendly policies helped facilitate Trump’s pseudo-populist victory. Obama’s reluctance to confront race matters in a serious and substantive manner did not cause the ugly white backlash, but Obama’s hesitancy did not help the opposition to white-supremacist practices. "

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jan/14/america-is-spiritually-bankrupt-we-must-fight-back-together

sidd






Rob Dekker

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3425 on: January 17, 2018, 08:51:17 AM »
His triumph flows from the implosion of a Republican party establishment beholden to big money, big military and big scapegoating of vulnerable peoples of color, LGBTQ peoples, immigrants, Muslims, and women.

It also flows from a Democratic party establishment beholden to big money, big military, and the clever deployment of peoples of color, LGBTQ peoples, immigrants, Muslims and women to hide and conceal the lies and crimes of neoliberal policies here and abroad; and from a corporate media establishment that aided and abetted Trump owing to high profits and revenues."

Isn't it ironic then, that Trump is more than Republicans and Democrats combined "beholden to big money, big military", and is "scapegoating of vulnerable peoples of color, LGBTQ peoples, immigrants, Muslims and women to hide and conceal the lies and crimes" of Trump policies here and abroad...

With all the rhetoric from Cornel West about about positive signs from the Movement for Black Lives and Standing Rock, he fails to ask the obvious questions :

Why did we elect a Lying Racist Xenophobic Selfish Bigot that is more extreme than both the Republican and Democratic parties combined ?

And how do we get rid of him ?
« Last Edit: January 17, 2018, 09:16:00 AM by Rob Dekker »

Buddy

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3426 on: January 17, 2018, 07:54:11 PM »
I guess if Trump is going to lie about the size of the audience during his inauguration....he may as well lie about his height and weight as well....

Obama is 6'1"....and Mitt Romney is 6'2".....and Trump is "supposedly now 6'3".

Which must make me 7'2"......and make Sarah Huckabee a model.   ::) ::) ::)
FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

TerryM

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3427 on: Today at 01:22:00 AM »
The Koreas are jinxing Trump's, and Canada's plans for their peninsula.


https://www.rt.com/news/416177-north-south-korea-olympic-team/

The Koreans seem to be most upset by America's insistence on placing the THAAD system in their peninsula. That and the bi-annual joint war games that disrupt both planting and harvest operations.

The Koreans seem able to co-exist, perhaps, after more than half a century, we should give them the opportunity?
Terry

Terry

pileus

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3428 on: Today at 01:35:19 AM »
The Alt Left always forgets that Hillary Clinton won the lower income demographics, white and black and other.  Trump’s “forgotten men and women” were not impoverished by Wall Street and did not vote for his populism, they voted for his appeals to white supremacy and scapegoating brown people.

But it’s not unreasonable to say that there is no Donald Trump without Obama, much like there was no Obama without W Bush. It was not the Alt Left’s precious conjuring phrase, “neoliberal policy Obama” that created Trump, it was Trump leading the racist birther movement against Obama that gave rise to his political career.


sidd

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3429 on: Today at 05:17:26 AM »
"it was Trump leading the racist birther movement against Obama that gave rise to his political career."

Not quite, he's been flirting with the idea since the 80s, ran in 2000 for Reform party.
I remember that 87 circus.

http://www.tvguide.com/news/donald-trump-presidential-campaign-timeline/

sidd

Rob Dekker

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3430 on: Today at 09:41:25 AM »
Sidd, if it was not the " racist birther movement against Obama "(which pileus suggests) that gave rise to Trump's political career, and neither was it the "Republican/Democrat party establishment beholden to big money, big military and big scapegoating of vulnerable peoples of color, LGBTQ peoples, immigrants, Muslims, and women" (which Cornel West suggests but since Trump is even more so is doesn't make sense) then WHY did the US elect a Lying Racist Xenophobic Selfish Bigot that is more extreme than both the Republican and Democratic parties combined ?
« Last Edit: Today at 09:57:18 AM by Rob Dekker »

Sleepy

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3431 on: Today at 10:00:52 AM »
This prophecy from 2006?

No offense, just feeling a bit sillier than usual today.   ;D
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Buddy

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3432 on: Today at 12:45:37 PM »
March 13th special election for a US House seat in Pennsylvania is the next "test" for Moron Don.  This is a district that has been Republican for 16 years....and Donnie carried by almost 20 points.

Now....the race is a "single digits" race.  Donnie is going to be campaigning there.....because he really has no choice.  Donnie HAS to hold on to the US House....or his "Tearing Apart America" program will be slowed down.  He'll still have his executive orders....which will be unwound with the next Democratic president....but he won't have any lasting legislative actions.

Like Alabama....I don't EXPECT the Democrats to win this seat....but I was wrong about the Alabama senate race....and when the polls get into the single digits....anything CAN happen.

There is significant risk for Donnie....because if he loses yet another race that should be an easy Republican "layup".....that will weaken his support from Republicans.  The last thing he wants is a part of Congress to fall into Democratic hands.  Think the committees looking into RussiaGate would be run differently in either the House or the Senate if they were under Democratic control?  Remember....THIS IS A PROCESS and this process takes TIME....

March 13th...mark it on your calendar.  Your turn Pennsylvania..... :)
FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."