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Neven

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Re: Arctic Café
« Reply #1100 on: May 29, 2018, 08:32:33 AM »
Thanks for this, Ivica. I'll try and watch it some time.
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magnamentis

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Re: Arctic Café
« Reply #1101 on: May 30, 2018, 12:04:32 AM »
"Can money and power ever make us happy? How much is enough? Our constant desire for more is part of our human nature."

i know many "humans" who don't desire more and more and i'm sure you're one of them.

so it's not the human nature but in the animal's nature and real humans (i know that's edge term) use their brain, empathy and ethics to hold the animal inside all of us in check:

a) as much as possible (we're all sinners LOL)

b) where it's appropriate (because we need some animalic instincts to survive)

just a thought, it's meant more as a yes but more than a no but if you know hat i mean. (sure that)
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Knowledge, Understanding & Insight Are Among The Best Sources For Personal Freedom & Vitality !

ivica

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Re: Arctic Café
« Reply #1102 on: May 30, 2018, 07:45:50 AM »
We need change, big one

More about Angaangaq Angakkorsuaq featured in video given previously, web pages: https://icewisdom.com/
"His engagement for the Environment and Indigenous issues brought him to more than 60 countries in the world."

Angaangaq Angakkorsuaq Published on YouTube Feb 9, 2017
Quote
May I invite you to come to my land ?

The Big Ice is melting. Now is the time for you and me to change.

Change begins in each one of us: by learning to honor ourselves and one another, Mother Nature and the animals. We are all citizens of one Mother Earth – nunarsuarput.

At the Big Ice there is that incredible silence. Walking in silence on the oldest crust of Mother Earth, I come home to myself.  I will experience Climate Change and Change within myself – in Ceremony and in Community with Elders from all over the world as well as from my native land … where Mother Earth is affected most.

Let us spread the message together from the Top of the World and make the World aware so that there is hope.

In unity,

Angaangaq



In Santa Barbara (YT 2011)
"Angaangaq is a keynote speaker at international conferences on climate change, environmental and indigenous issues, and he participates in peace and spiritual vigils with the United Nations, speaking on panels for the United Nation Environmental Protection Agency, the Panel on Religion and Spirituality, and the Permanent Forum on Indigenous Issues, as well as the Panel for UNESCO's Oceans, Fishers and Hunters. He is associated with the United Religions Initiative in alliance with the United Nations, the Club of Budapest International, The Masters Group, the Earth Restorations Corps, and serves on the special advisory council to the Jane Goodall Institute. Angaangaq's work is acclaimed in promoting interracial and intercultural harmony."



Neven

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Re: Arctic Café
« Reply #1103 on: May 30, 2018, 08:08:52 PM »
To all you members who live in California, or know people living in California, please, do everything you can to get Alison Hartson into the US Senate. This is one of those moments where a strong signal can be given:

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Susan Anderson

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Re: Arctic Café
« Reply #1104 on: May 30, 2018, 08:18:22 PM »
@Neven, why is US California electioneering in Arctic Cafe?

Alexander555

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Re: Arctic Café
« Reply #1105 on: May 30, 2018, 08:37:30 PM »
It's an arctic café , but still a café  ;D

Neven

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Re: Arctic Café
« Reply #1106 on: May 30, 2018, 09:06:39 PM »
@Neven, why is US California electioneering in Arctic Cafe?

It's what I would do in a café.

'What? You know someone in California? Okay, call them while I get you a beer!'

Do you know people in California who may not know about this, Susan?
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gerontocrat

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Re: Arctic Café
« Reply #1107 on: May 30, 2018, 09:11:19 PM »
@Neven, why is US California electioneering in Arctic Cafe?

It's what I would do in a café.

'What? You know someone in California? Okay, call them while I get you a beer!'

Do you know people in California who may not know about this, Susan?
It's a  café, not a bar or a pub.

In my local pub we try to avoid politics and religion especially when the alcohol really starts to flow. (Mind you - there is always one who just can't  resist.......  Ho hum)
"Para a Causa do Povo a Luta Continua!"
"And that's all I'm going to say about that". Forrest Gump
"Damn, I wanted to see what happened next" (Epitaph)

Susan Anderson

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Re: Arctic Café
« Reply #1108 on: May 30, 2018, 09:29:53 PM »
@Neven, why is US California electioneering in Arctic Cafe?

It's what I would do in a café.

'What? You know someone in California? Okay, call them while I get you a beer!'

Do you know people in California who may not know about this, Susan?

My friends in California are perfectly capable of making their own minds up. (Though most of them are more of a mind with you than with my tolerance of pragmatists and hardworking public servants in office who have to work with real enemies of humanity.) I'm not thrilled with your one-sided blind bias against Dianne Feinstein. Your lists of Democrats you wish to undermine, as I have said before, are in my opinion part of the problem, not part of the solution.

I am, on the whole, not supporting the mainstream Democratic organizations, but rather a few candidates here and there. But any Democrat is way better than the best Republican in office, even the two I've taken against (Manchin and Heitkamp, who have actually voted with Trump).

That said, when I suggested that recent comments on Arctic Café be exempted from being delisted on the front page of the Arctic Forum, I didn't anticipate this distorting argument to be carried into a site for "having beers" or wine or a snack and indulging in chat with peers and colleagues and chance met acquaintances who have a common interest in the Arctic.

Susan Anderson

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Re: Arctic Café
« Reply #1109 on: May 30, 2018, 09:37:41 PM »
It's a  café, not a bar or a pub.

In my local pub we try to avoid politics and religion especially when the alcohol really starts to flow. (Mind you - there is always one who just can't  resist.......  Ho hum)

Sorry, I just made it worse, my bad.

I strong recommend Ivica's addition!

ivica

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Re: Arctic Café
« Reply #1110 on: May 30, 2018, 09:57:34 PM »
Forum has plenty of rooms already opened for discussions, and new one can be opened if needed. No discussions here or at least not long ones, please.
(one can discuss something elsewhere and post the link here if that is what is wanted)

Neven

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Re: Arctic Café
« Reply #1111 on: May 30, 2018, 10:03:52 PM »
Forum has plenty of rooms already opened for discussions, and new one can be opened if needed. No discussions here or at least not long ones, please.

Just wait until we get drunk.  ;)
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ivica

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Re: Arctic Café
« Reply #1112 on: May 30, 2018, 10:27:29 PM »
< had to do some editing >

Let us spread the message together from the Top of the World and make the World aware so that there is hope. - Angaangaq

His elders talked about the Big Ice melting in 1963.   
He gave a talk about the Big Ice melting at UN in 1978.         

Where are we with global awareness of it now ?      




ivica

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Re: Arctic Café
« Reply #1113 on: June 01, 2018, 09:17:41 AM »
While being distressed by despicable western politic attempt to think about something else is worthwhile, so comes "Modern perspective on the Euclidean primitives":


"Euclidean subspaces such as points (p), lines (a), areas (a^b) and volumes (a^b^c) are taken in Clifford algebra Cl(3,0) as primitive entities constituting the Euclidean space E3, with each subspace specified only by its magnitude, direction and orientation (or handedness), providing a unified and complete algebraic framework of directed numbers across dimensions, spanned by the geometric product ab=a.b+a^b, reminiscent of a complex number."

Update on anti-spookiness

Joy Christian reports: "The Royal Society of London has accepted my disproof of Bell’s theorem. My latest paper on the subject is just published by the Royal Society journal Open Science: http://rsos.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/5/5/180526 "

Quote
... it provides a viability proof of the “uniform basis” sought by Einstein for all of physics, by explicitly constructing a locally causal framework for all quantum correlations in terms of the spinorial properties of the physical space.

40 pages pdf

.



ivica

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Re: Arctic Café
« Reply #1114 on: June 01, 2018, 11:22:15 PM »
Oj joj



EU censorship machines and link tax laws are nearing the finish line
"Update from May 25th 2018, 13:37: Member State governments have today adopted their position on the copyright reform, with no significant changes to the upload filters and link tax provisions. It is now up to Parliament to stop them."

Deconstructing the Article 13 of the Copyright proposal of the European Commission: https://edri.org/files/copyright/copyright_proposal_article13.pdf

More:
THE EU PLAN TO DESTROY THE INTERNET. ARTICLE 13, Reloaded Insight - Published on May 31, 2018
EU Directive SPELLS DISASTER for Internet Freedom, Black Pigeon Speaks - Published on Jun 1, 2018

ivica

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Re: Arctic Café
« Reply #1115 on: June 02, 2018, 05:26:18 PM »
Imagine when there is no ice in the Arctic during summer. It will be a different world.

I have nothing more to say.

ivica

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Re: Arctic Café
« Reply #1116 on: June 03, 2018, 09:34:41 PM »
WikiLeaks @wikileaks 21h21 hours ago: "Resist the attempted silencing of @JulianAssange"

"--Roger Waters (Pink Floyd) concert this evening."

More on it.

Roger Waters in Berlin - Money - 2018-06-02.


Alexander555

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Re: Arctic Café
« Reply #1117 on: June 03, 2018, 09:59:06 PM »
Why do they try to silence him ?

sidd

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Re: Arctic Café
« Reply #1118 on: June 03, 2018, 10:06:52 PM »
He tells uncomfortable truths.

sidd

TerryM

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Re: Arctic Café
« Reply #1119 on: June 03, 2018, 10:41:40 PM »
Why do they try to silence him ?


We haven't heard a word for some time.


Where is the outrage! Where are his fellow journalists? Why are musicians bringing his plight to our attention rather than the newspapers and broadcasters who profited from copying and pasting his revelations?
 
A pox on the publishers and editors who aren't leading with the story of Assange's captivity and the silencing of Wikileaks.
Terry

Alexander555

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Re: Arctic Café
« Reply #1120 on: June 03, 2018, 10:54:06 PM »
Probably because they are all in the same tax evading paradises.

ivica

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Re: Arctic Café
« Reply #1121 on: June 03, 2018, 11:15:16 PM »
#FreeAssange! (tweets by campaign) @JulianAssange 2h


<>


Alexander555

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Re: Arctic Café
« Reply #1122 on: June 04, 2018, 08:19:24 AM »
Is it possible to support him in some way ?

ivica

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Re: Arctic Café
« Reply #1123 on: June 04, 2018, 09:14:17 AM »
https://unity4j.com/
twitter: #FreeAssange #Unity4J
duckduckgo: how to support Assange
duckduckgo: Online Vigil in support of Julian Assange

#Unity4J Online Vigil in support of Julian Assange - Part 2 Streamed live 19 hours ago


"In a world of divide & conquer, unity is the ultimate act of resistance."

« Last Edit: June 04, 2018, 09:43:09 AM by ivica »

Susan Anderson

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Re: Arctic Café
« Reply #1124 on: June 04, 2018, 05:13:05 PM »
Assange is in it for Assange. I used to be a fan, but he's lost it and is a bundle of uncontrolled resentment and dangerous distortion. I continue to think Snowden did us all an enormous favor, but Assange, no longer. Here's a report from a guy who spent serious time with Assange: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/08/21/julian-assange-a-man-without-a-country It's a long article, but objective and full of useful observations. Here's an arbitrary quote:

Quote
WikiLeaks, like many journalistic organizations, has long insisted on keeping its sources secret. However, Assange was not merely maintaining silence; he was actively pushing a narrative about his sourcing, in which Russia was not involved. He once told me, “WikiLeaks is providing a reference set to undeniably true information about the world.” But what if, in the interest of source protection, he was advancing a falsehood that was more significant than the reference set itself? Arguably, his election publications only underscored what was known about the Democratic National Committee and Hillary Clinton. His denials, meanwhile, potentially obfuscated an act of information warfare between two nuclear-armed powers.

From Laura Poitras on her documentary: http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2017/07/13/nihilism-of-julian-assange-wikileaks/
Quote
Laura Poitras’s messy documentary portrait of Julian Assange, the filmmaker addresses the viewer from off-camera. “This is not the film I thought I was making,” she says. “I thought I could ignore the contradictions. I thought they were not part of the story. I was so wrong. They are becoming the story.”

By the time she makes this confession, Poitras has been filming Assange, on and off, for six years. He has gone from a bit player on the international stage to one of its dramatic leads. His gleeful interference in the 2016 American presidential election—first with the release of e-mails poached from the Democratic National Committee, timed to coincide with, undermine, and possibly derail Hillary Clinton’s nomination at the Democratic Convention, and then with the publication of the private e-mail correspondence of Clinton’s adviser John Podesta, which was leaked, drip by drip, in the days leading up to the election to maximize the damage it might inflict on Clinton—elevated Assange’s profile and his influence.

And then this spring, it emerged that Nigel Farage, the Trump adviser and former head of the nationalist and anti-immigrant UK Independence Party (UKIP) who is now a person of interest in the FBI investigation of the Trump campaign’s ties to Russia, was meeting with Assange. To those who once saw him as a crusader for truth and accountability, Assange suddenly looked more like a Svengali and a willing tool of Vladimir Putin, and certainly a man with no particular affection for liberal democracy. Yet those tendencies were present all along.

I had a couple beers last night, and still couldn't figure out why the "Arctic Cafe" has become an advocacy site for a guy who ganged up with Nigel Farage, the Trump family, Putin Inc., and others to provide the world with Trump. There is no world in which Trump is an improvement.

Since we're so far away from objective reality and so deep into muddled hatreds, this is what happened in 1992, and the derailment has been continuously organized to miss the point:

Susan Anderson

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Re: Arctic Café
« Reply #1125 on: June 04, 2018, 05:30:24 PM »
One more link, to the letters to the editor, which reinforce the point from members of the public.
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/09/11/letters-from-the-september-11-2017-issue Because I share its point of view, here's one quote, but arguing against myself, you might like to go to the link and read the letter that follows it about empire (though it too is ambivalent):
Quote
Assange’s willingness to harm other people in the name of openness is striking. WikiLeaks documents have, Khatchadourian writes, “revealed the identities of teen-age rape victims in Saudi Arabia, anti-government activists in Syria, and dissident academics in China,” but Assange says that criticism of these types of revelations are “nearly all bogus.” He goes on, “In any case, we have to understand the reality that privacy is dead.” Assange may believe in transparency for other people, but he doesn’t seem to want it for himself.

NevB

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Re: Arctic Café
« Reply #1126 on: June 05, 2018, 11:35:42 AM »

The big con: how neoliberals convinced us there wasn't enough to go around

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2018/jun/04/the-big-con-how-neoliberals-convinced-us-there-wasnt-enough-to-go-around

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Australia just experienced one of the biggest mining booms in world history. But even at the peak of that boom, there was no talk of the wonderful opportunity we finally had to invest in world-class mental health or domestic violence crisis services.

Nor was there much talk from either major party about how the wealth of the mining boom gave us a once-in-a-generation opportunity to invest in remote Indigenous communities. Nope, the peak of the mining boom was not the time to help those who had missed out in decades past, but the Howard government thought it was a great time to introduce permanent tax cuts for high-income earners. These, of course, are the tax cuts that caused the budget deficits we have today.

In Susan's video above Bill Clinton asks the people to choose an economic model to follow. Around this time Australia chose the Neoliberal agenda. This article does a great job of exposing the cost and deceit of this mistake.

BTW The Australian conservative party call themselves "Liberal" but are liberal in name only and the nationals are the party of the wealthy farmers.

Lurk

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Re: Arctic Café
« Reply #1127 on: June 05, 2018, 04:58:31 PM »
There's a saying that goes "The nail that sticks up will be pounded in."

Before I turn into a pumpkin I decided to say a couple of things I think are important to know and remember. It's 30 years since James Hansen rocked up a congressional hearing and spoke about the threat of global warming. That got quite a good deal of press and combined with other things triggered the Rio Summit.  Thatcher and Reagan were two critical world leaders who brought that about and under the auspices of the UN the UNFCCC was born along with the IPCC. How are we doing after 3 decades? Not so well.

Essentially Hansen's scary story was subjugated into an institution with very limited power (UNFCCC) controlled by the most powerful nations and people in the world. Relegated under that was a totally powerless and underfunded IPCC that for 30 years has relied upon "volunteer" scientists to prepare the ARs every few years. A mandate to produce high quality science analysis reports and deliver them to the UNFCCC for consideration without barely any full time staff or scientists to do that work. But then the national governments also had the opportunity to decide precisely which words were allowed to be printed in the SPMs, that then when upstairs to the UNFCCC talk fests.

You think this arrangement was a wise well executed effective institutional structure to move the issue of global warming forward? You think this was an accident or instituted by design? A way to determine that is to ask 'How's the log jams working out so far? And are we making great progress or not?' Well I suggest many already know the answers to those questions though they may not so often speak openly about what they really think.

Broad scale community wide, nation wide and world wide requires a defined movement that has very clear ideals and a mission goal. When it comes to global warming there is no such movement. There no established leadership group leading it. There is no recognizable face who is the primary leader and spokesperson for that movement. You also know that global warming does not exist on it;s own but is deeply embedded into every aspect of modern life. You know you cannot tinker with one part of an interconnected integrated system without simultaneous creating impacts and changes upon every other part of the system. 

What we have here folks is a Systemic Causation problem of epic proportions. Like a spiders web touch one strand and the reverberations are felt across all other strands of the web. While many people who care are engaged in their special strand of the problem there is no central leadership steering the ship - which is why it is going no where. People argue. People have their special domains and groups who they want to defend. In this world, including the scientific and academic world Competition is King - no one loves a loser. People fight to protect their perceived territory and self-interests.

You think in a world of Cambridge Analytica and neoliberal fundamentalism hard heads they don't know this already? Didn't help to create the space for things to be this way in the first place? Mmmm. I wonder what people think and more than that I wonder why people think what they think.

The day Martin Luther King was shot the African American social justice activist campaign pretty much stalled in it's tracks. No leader has ever risen to his prominence again. Why is that? And why is has there never ever been a coherent movement in defense of environmental and social justice while tackling the root systemic causes of global warming? And not one leader even worthy of being shot. Instead while the climate scientists continually argue with each and deniers as well, those positive reformist nay RADICAL Groups of people who truly do care about their fellow man and the planet and the generations ahead typically fight and compete against each other for attention, for funding and worse of all on principles! While supporters of those groups and high ideals (eg people on the asif and many other spaces) keeping arguing among themselves. Meanwhile nothing of note gets done. Wars keep raging, elections are won and lost, and CO2 keeps on rising.

What's the solution then? Do you know of any decent leaders up to the task? But I'll tell you this, they had better have a much better security detail and intel than MLK and RFK did in 1968. It is a war and you ain't winning it!

In concluding, I'll repeat there are far too many gullible people who don’t take the time to look harder for the truth staring them in the face. And far too many people have been persuaded that if enough of the "right" kind of people say it often enough it must be true or the only right answer. But as the giant of humanity Mark Twain said in the 19th century: “It’s easier to con someone, than it is to convince him he has already been conned.

We must not underestimate how powerful the conditioning narrative has been of 'it's bad to be radical'. Nowadays, if you have radically different ideas, you are immediately branded a 'conspiracy theorist' who engages in 'magical thinking'. It sometimes frightens me to see how uncritically this conditioning is spread by those who are conditioned themselves. All it leads to is conformism, apathy and spiritual shallowness. Nothing has ever changed for the better because of a shallow non-radial thinking conformist person. Nothing. And no half decent radical idea has ever grown feet long enough to survive without having a charismatic leader capable of reaching the common man who is clear on values, the goals, the aspitrtions, and the ability to simply spell precisely what the problem is. And such a leader is nothing without a dedicated determined movement of people behind them that can contribute positively within a strong defined institutional structure. Power cannot exist in a vacuum. A successful movement needs a defined organizational structure to call 'home'. There must be a Power Base of people and a organization to direct that power and drive.

When it comes to global warming there is nothing up to the task required. And so nothing changes when nothing changes. However the Laws of Nature (Cause and Effect) may still teach us the lessons we're not able to learn by Free Will. Here's another saying which fits "Give a dog a bad name and it sticks." And do remember Gandalf’s famous words, “All who wander are not lost!” :)

I posted a few things by Seymour Hersh today that I believe were incredibly apt to all kinds of social ills. One was "But anyway, what I learned later is that you can’t save the world." I prefer to put that idea another way. You can't save the world from itself. You can't save a person from them self. What do you think about all that? Peace!
“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn't true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.” ― Soren Kierkegaard

ivica

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Re: Arctic Café
« Reply #1128 on: June 07, 2018, 07:46:13 AM »
Coffee time

ASILurker posted (thank you)  under other topic today:
"Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people."

Others on it: https://www.quora.com/What-does-this-quote-mean-Great-minds-discuss-ideas-Average-minds-discuss-events-Small-minds-discuss-people

my simplified and imperfect abstraction:
society           mind            math
---------------------------------------
people          a thought         1      
event           what to think     5=2+3
idea            how to think      y=f(x)      

then comes function of functions...


Tor Bejnar

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Re: Arctic Café
« Reply #1129 on: June 07, 2018, 08:20:00 PM »
Hyperion used the word "pataphorically" and I had to look it up.

He also defined "DDDD"
Arctic ice is healthy for children and other living things.

Sleepy

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Re: Arctic Café
« Reply #1130 on: June 08, 2018, 06:59:11 AM »
Hyperion used the word "pataphorically" and I had to look it up.

He also defined "DDDD"
You yanks are lazy.  ;D
If I made a comment for everything I had to look up, I would become "ASIF Emperor" in a week, or banned...
Omnia mirari, etiam tritissima.

Tor Bejnar

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Re: Arctic Café
« Reply #1131 on: June 08, 2018, 06:54:19 PM »
Somebody's got to be lazy! (where's the 'laid back' emoticon?)  To prevent banning, I posted in this thread, and to prevent emperorization, I combined two thoughts in one post.
 :)
Arctic ice is healthy for children and other living things.

Sleepy

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Re: Arctic Café
« Reply #1132 on: June 09, 2018, 04:30:26 AM »
There is no laid back emoticon and I don't need it, Disney once made a [CHānj] and called Sleepy; Lazy!  :)
Omnia mirari, etiam tritissima.

ivica

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Re: Arctic Café
« Reply #1133 on: June 09, 2018, 11:58:21 AM »
From the post by gerontocrat: "The report says much more knowledge is needed about the ocean. The authors say the world needs a Mission to "Planet Ocean" to mirror the excitement of voyaging to the moon and Mars."
There, lets go:



gerontocrat

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Re: Arctic Café
« Reply #1134 on: June 10, 2018, 04:44:38 PM »
Another satellite ready to be launched - it only took 16 years to build it.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-44415752

Aeolus: Wind satellite weathers technical storm

They say there is no gain without pain, but when the European Space Agency (Esa) set out in 2002 to develop its Aeolus satellite, no-one could have imagined the grief the project would bring.

Quote
Designed to make the first 3D maps of winds across the entire Earth, the mission missed deadline after deadline as engineers struggled to get its key technology - an ultraviolet laser system - working for long enough to make the venture worth flying.

But now, 16 years on, the Aeolus satellite is finished and ready to ship to the launch pad. And far from being snuck out the back door at night in embarrassment at the huge delay, the spacecraft will be mated to its launch rocket with something of a fanfare.

Esa is taking pride in the fact that it overcame a major technical challenge.

"Many times I remember people saying, 'there's just no point in continuing because it is simply not possible to build a UV laser for space'. But this is the DNA of Esa - we do the difficult things and we don't give up," said the agency's Earth observation director, Dr Josef Aschbacher.

It helped of course that Aeolus promises data that many experts still believe will be transformative.

From its vantage point some 320km above the planet, the laser will track the movement of molecules and tiny particles to get a handle on the direction and speed of the wind.
"Para a Causa do Povo a Luta Continua!"
"And that's all I'm going to say about that". Forrest Gump
"Damn, I wanted to see what happened next" (Epitaph)

ivica

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Re: Arctic Café
« Reply #1135 on: June 10, 2018, 09:55:07 PM »
Planet Plastic

https://www.thecanary.co/discovery/analysis-discovery/2018/06/09/pristine-no-more-scientists-make-a-disturbing-discovery-in-the-antarctic/
"The presence of plastic waste in the Antarctic is nothing new. In 2010, scientists reported [pdf, p7] large pieces of plastic in the Antarctic Ocean. But this is the first reported sighting of microplastics. The researchers gathered numerous samples. Seven out of eight water samples taken at the sites contained detectable amounts of microplastics."
11 pages pdf at https://storage.googleapis.com/p4-production-content/international/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/4f99ea57-microplastic-antarctic-report-final.pdf


United Nations, "Plastic Ocean" Published on May 24, 2017

jacksmith4tx

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Re: Arctic Café
« Reply #1136 on: June 10, 2018, 11:07:19 PM »
Another satellite ready to be launched - it only took 16 years to build it.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-44415752

Aeolus: Wind satellite weathers technical storm

They say there is no gain without pain, but when the European Space Agency (Esa) set out in 2002 to develop its Aeolus satellite, no-one could have imagined the grief the project would bring.

Quote
Designed to make the first 3D maps of winds across the entire Earth, the mission missed deadline after deadline as engineers struggled to get its key technology - an ultraviolet laser system - working for long enough to make the venture worth flying.

But now, 16 years on, the Aeolus satellite is finished and ready to ship to the launch pad. And far from being snuck out the back door at night in embarrassment at the huge delay, the spacecraft will be mated to its launch rocket with something of a fanfare.

Esa is taking pride in the fact that it overcame a major technical challenge.

"Many times I remember people saying, 'there's just no point in continuing because it is simply not possible to build a UV laser for space'. But this is the DNA of Esa - we do the difficult things and we don't give up," said the agency's Earth observation director, Dr Josef Aschbacher.

It helped of course that Aeolus promises data that many experts still believe will be transformative.

From its vantage point some 320km above the planet, the laser will track the movement of molecules and tiny particles to get a handle on the direction and speed of the wind.
The real cool thing about this satellite will be when they integrate it's data into the other weather satellites output. Another big data source to feed the machine learning systems.
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/weather/topstories/a-perfect-forecast-machine-learning-may-be-the-answer/ar-AAyigiw
"The key to the team's study was the analysis of a chaotic system and in weather prediction, you are absolutely playing by the same rules: our atmosphere is a large chaotic system with excessive amounts of interrelated variables. In the present day, weather forecasting involves mapping out the current state of our atmosphere, then using complex mathematical equations to predict its future appearance. Even the most experienced dynamicists can become crippled by the overwhelming level of equations required to represent a chaotic system, some of which are unknown.

But that's the beauty of reservoir computing: it completely eliminates reliance on the equations by deeply studying the data recorded about the evolving solution to the equations.

"This paper suggests that one day we might be able perhaps to predict weather by machine-learning algorithms and not by sophisticated models of the atmosphere,"

If you understand what they are saying is that the ML system will generate the physics equations from analyzing the data instead of scientists using equations that approximation reality with adjustable parameters.
Science is a thought process, technology will change reality.

ivica

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Re: Arctic Café
« Reply #1137 on: June 10, 2018, 11:20:17 PM »
suggests...might --> will  ??

SteveMDFP

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Re: Arctic Café
« Reply #1138 on: June 10, 2018, 11:58:19 PM »

If you understand what they are saying is that the ML system will generate the physics equations from analyzing the data . . .

Well, yes, sort of. This kind of machine learning can be readily transferred to other hardware with compatible architecture.  But there are no human-decipherable "algorithms" to be parsed out.  The "learning" is down to what happens at individual transistors and diodes, out of billions of them. It's probably easier to analyze a brain full of neurons to determine what that brain will "think."

sidd

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Re: Arctic Café
« Reply #1139 on: June 10, 2018, 11:59:14 PM »
"generate the physics equations from analyzing the data"

This is a view held by many data lords on both the west and east coasts of the USA. One notable is  Eric Schmidt who was, until lately,  head honcho at google until he was unceremoniously ditched for, as rumor has it, sexual romping.

I disagree.

sidd

Susan Anderson

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Re: Arctic Café
« Reply #1140 on: June 11, 2018, 05:49:42 AM »
Some words to hope on (Masha Gessen is a personal favorite, who often challenges us to move outside our preconceptions). This is the ending of a reflection on George Orwell and how totalitarianism suppresses creativity, given at a lecture in Barcelona, but it surprised me as a kind of manifesto for hope. I was very moved by it.

Quote
I was looking at something that appeared to exist parallel to capitalism. But I still had no words to describe what it was. All my words belonged to the world of the gray monoliths around the perimeter. Of the thing itself, I could say only what it was not.

And yet I think this is the job of writers right now: to describe what we do not yet see, or what we see but cannot yet describe, which is a condition almost indistinguishable from not seeing.

I want to find a way to describe a world in which people are valued not for what they produce but for who they are—in which dignity is not a precarious state.

I want to find a way to describe economic and social equality as a central value—a world in which inequality is, therefore, shrinking.

I want to find a way to describe prosperity that is not linked to the accumulation of capital.

Find a way to describe happiness as a public good, and the current pervasive crisis of mental health in a way that doesn’t involve the frames of norms and pathology, or the language of “fixing” people.

Find a way to describe a world without borders as we have known them—a world in which nation-states are not prized or assumed.

Find a way to describe learning that does not involve the warehousing and disciplining of children.

Find a way to describe justice whose objective is not retribution but restoration.

Find a way to describe politics that are genuinely participatory, that reflect the complexity and diversity of human experience, that avoid arbitrary divisions along party lines and emphasize coöperation around common goals.

Find an ever more complicated and evolving way to write about gender.

Find ways to describe kinship that is not the nuclear family or framed by the nuclear family. Find ways to tell the stories of friendship and community.

Find ways to describe a humanity that protects its planet, itself, and other creatures that inhabit the earth with us. Find words for reasonable and responsible coöperation.

Find a way to describe public space that is genuinely public and accessible, and include in this the virtual space of social networks and other media.

Above all, find a way to describe a world in which the way things are is not the way things have always been and will always be, in which imagination is not only operant but prized and nurtured.

And find a way to describe many other things that are true but not seen, seen but not spoken, and things that are not but could be. Orwell wrote that, for the fiction writer, subjective feelings were facts; being compelled to falsify those feelings in a “totalitarian atmosphere” amounted to the “prevention of literature.” Orwell’s perceptions of totalitarianism formed the basis for his novels, which, in turn, shaped much of our current understanding of totalitarianism. I am proposing that subjective hopes are also, for the purposes of writing, facts. These are the facts endangered by the fear and despair prevalent in our current politics. If one insists on writing the truth of those hopes—or, rather, if many writers do this—the result may not be great literature, which is always a miracle, but it will exercise the imagination. If it is good, or good enough, it will fuel conversation. And may it be half as prescient as “Nineteen Eighty-Four.”

https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/how-george-orwell-predicted-the-challenge-of-writing-today

Sleepy

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Re: Arctic Café
« Reply #1141 on: June 11, 2018, 07:01:48 AM »
Your brain hallucinates your conscious reality | Anil Seth
Right now, billions of neurons in your brain are working together to generate a conscious experience -- and not just any conscious experience, your experience of the world around you and of yourself within it. How does this happen? According to neuroscientist Anil Seth, we're all hallucinating all the time; when we agree about our hallucinations, we call it "reality."


Three implications, in short:
1. Just as we can misperceive the world, we can misperceive ourselves.
2. What it means to be me, cannot be reduced to, or uploaded to, a software program running on a robot, however smart or sophisticated.
3. Our own individual inner universe, our way of beeing conscious, is just one possible way of beeing conscious.

And he ends with:
With a greater sense of understanding, comes a greater sense of wonder and a greater realization, that we are part of and not apart from, the rest of nature. And when the end of consciousness comes, there’s nothing to be afraid of. Nothing at all.

Omnia mirari, etiam tritissima.

ivica

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Re: Arctic Café
« Reply #1142 on: June 12, 2018, 09:41:24 AM »
Thanks for the post about consciousness, beautiful controversial subject. I like approach with several layers of emergent awareness. Example given here, mentioned here: Reactivity, Consciousness, Communality, Hypersociality, ...
In this view consciousness may not be enough to deal with challenges we face today, what more may we need...

A few quotes from the speech mentioned here and here:
Quote
Hence the need to devise a long-term global strategy able to provide energy security and, by laying down precise commitments to meet the problem of climate change, to encourage economic stability, public health, the protection of the environment and integral human development.
...
This is a challenge of epochal proportions.
...
We know that the challenges facing us are interconnected.
...
Political decisions, social responsibility on the part of the business community and criteria governing investments – all these must be guided by the pursuit of the long-term common good and concrete solidarity between generations. There should be no room for opportunistic and cynical efforts to gain small partial results in the short run, while shifting equally significant costs and damages to future generations.
...
Decisive progress on this path cannot be made without an increased awareness that all of us are part of one human family, united by bonds of fraternity and solidarity. Only by thinking and acting with constant concern for this underlying unity that overrides all differences, only by cultivating a sense of universal intergenerational solidarity, can we set out really and resolutely on the road ahead.
...
Unlimited faith in markets and technology has led many people to believe that shifts in economic or technological systems will be sufficient to remedy the current ecological and social imbalances. Yet we must acknowledge that the demand for continuous economic growth has led to severe ecological and social consequences, since our current economic system thrives on ever-increasing extraction, consumption and waste.
...

“The problem is that we still lack the culture needed to confront this crisis. We lack leadership capable of striking out on new paths in meeting the needs of the present with concern for all and without prejudice towards coming generations” (Laudato Si’, 53).

(my emphasis)

We need leadership with - for humans - exceptional inherent grasp of "communality".


Susan Anderson

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Re: Arctic Café
« Reply #1143 on: June 12, 2018, 05:04:59 PM »
Thank you Ivica. I like it all, but the one human family bit is something I often say. As I reflect on how this comes across in the era of Trump, it is hard to realize that many people don't accept that, and think it Christian to exclude, hurt, hamper, and hoard. Pope Francis is a good deed in a naughty world.

Quote
Decisive progress on this path cannot be made without an increased awareness that all of us are part of one human family, united by bonds of fraternity and solidarity. Only by thinking and acting with constant concern for this underlying unity that overrides all differences, only by cultivating a sense of universal intergenerational solidarity, can we set out really and resolutely on the road ahead.

ps. If you didn't see my apology elsewhere, just to be clear, I am sorry I lost my mind!

ivica

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Re: Arctic Café
« Reply #1144 on: June 12, 2018, 05:18:20 PM »
Thank you Susan Anderson.

We are all in the same spaceship. 1972.

(let's not bring much of Trump in here, he is not the cause of all our problems but just a spitout...)


ivica

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Re: Arctic Café
« Reply #1145 on: June 13, 2018, 08:46:00 AM »
Not Even Funny

current state of theoretical fundamental physics

Taken from the comment section,  Peter Woit says (June 12, 2018 at 3:20 pm):

"As for the “just trust experiment” idea, the problem we have is often a lack of any relevant experiments. That some small part of the theory community has gone off into ridiculous claims about “post-empirical” theory is a bit of a red herring. Few theorists really take that bizarre move seriously. The “post-empiricists” are doing great damage to the public perception of the subject, but the more significant issue is the large number of theorists working on the same failed ideas, hoping they can somehow extract something empirically testable out of these ideas. We’ve seen over the years that all you get by pushing “empirically testable” is moving people in the direction of studying ugly complex models that somehow might be testable, even though they are highly implausible and explain nothing. We might actually be better off with people giving up for now on testability and trying to find a new beautiful idea (i.e. new forms of symmetry). I think Hossenfelder in the end agrees that a successful new breakthrough will produce a new form of “beauty”. To me it’s thus not unreasonable to try and find that, independent of experiment if you have to. But you have to be really honest with yourself about when ideas don’t work and are unbeautiful, and the sociological reasons why people can’t or won’t do that are a big problem (one that Hossenfelder has written a lot about)."

Yep.

Edit: Emphasis &  Notice similarity of it with current state in social/political arena.
We are all in the same spaceship moving somewhere, let's not blow it for the sake of generations supposed to come.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2018, 11:00:19 AM by ivica »

Lurk

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Re: Arctic Café
« Reply #1146 on: June 13, 2018, 11:17:56 AM »


“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn't true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.” ― Soren Kierkegaard

magnamentis

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Re: Arctic Café
« Reply #1147 on: June 13, 2018, 04:01:27 PM »


if this means that we build life boats from substance of the boat we are on it's spot on, just would like some more people that this applies especially for the current way we build batteries, just replacing exploitation of fossil fuels with exploitation of other materials that won't do much less harm and cause less wars than do oil and the likes.

only theoretical solution is change of life style (higher farther longer faster more and more)
and only practical solution sooner or later implemented by mother nature itself will be a reduction in population and other substantial disruptions, kind of one or several reboots.

we probably can't even imagine what it will take to reduce world population to 1.5-2 billion within a relative short time span, i'm probably one of the lucky ones who can watch that happen from above, simply due to age ;)
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Susan Anderson

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Re: Arctic Café
« Reply #1148 on: June 13, 2018, 07:02:18 PM »
We desperately need to go the other way. Two powerful narratives show the way:

The Story of Stuff  https://storyofstuff.org/
For example, in movies this should speak to all of us (video posted below): https://storyofstuff.org/movies/story-of-electronics/

and https://www.ellenmacarthurfoundation.org/circular-economy
Quote
Looking beyond the current "take, make and dispose” extractive industrial model, the circular economy is restorative and regenerative by design. Relying on system-wide innovation, it aims to redefine products and services to design waste out, while minimising negative impacts. Underpinned by a transition to renewable energy sources, the circular model builds economic, natural and social capital.


ivica

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Re: Arctic Café
« Reply #1149 on: June 14, 2018, 08:53:58 AM »
Communality, one of nested layers of emergent awareness

"...but the good news is this, since the western project has succeed the rest of the world is happy to cooperate with US and Europe in building strong global multilateral institutions. Exhibit 'A': Climate change agreement in Paris...".

that is Kishore Mahbubani, again. Tirelessly - for decades - spreading message about need for enhanced global multilateralism.

"The Economist asks: Has the West lost its touch?", 2018-06-07.

« Last Edit: June 14, 2018, 09:16:43 AM by ivica »