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jai mitchell

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #400 on: July 10, 2017, 08:18:56 PM »
Nominating someone appealing to the Democratic base, but unpalatable to the rest of the general electorate, does no Democrat any good. 

you mean like Hillary Clinton?  oh wait, you mean:

Quote
Nominating someone appealing to he Democratic Establishment, but unpalatable to the rest of the general electorate, does no Democrat any good
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Neven

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #401 on: July 10, 2017, 08:30:27 PM »
Keep in mind that most young people want the second strategy, and this is about their future.

If a child reaches down to grab a 'snake in the grass', it is a parent's obligation to hold back the child, even if the child wants the freedom to play with whatever it wants.

Maybe the parent shouldn't have put the snake there in the first place, so that it doesn't have to teach the child to always conform to the wishes of old people who totally screwed up in the first place, leading to the child becoming indifferent, despondent and disengaged?

their shareholder value would drop and evaporate a significant portion of the pensions savings of many citizens. So, it is not just a threat to particular corporations.

So, obviously there needs to be an incremental approach in re-forming U.S. health insurance. Obamacare was the first step. While small, one for the history books. "Progressives" should not turn this into historical ballast, while it actually floats much of the resistance against the Republican agenda.  (Guess what, without millions of protesters knowing their Obamacare (possibly under a different name) the GOP would by now have their health care bill through, and America one step further down the spiral...) hmmmm etc. repeating myself.

But by your own logic that would be great for shareholder value and pension savings of old people, right?

And you accuse others of spreading Republican memes...   :P :D
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AbruptSLR

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #402 on: July 10, 2017, 09:14:31 PM »
Maybe the parent shouldn't have put the snake there in the first place, so that it doesn't have to teach the child to always conform to the wishes of old people who totally screwed up in the first place, leading to the child becoming indifferent, despondent and disengaged?

While I agree that 'an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure', the Trump/GOP snake in the grass already exists and crying over spilt milk will get us no where.  Until the snake is dealt with, no one will be safe; so we need a plan that will get traction for the 2018 mid-term elections, that will energize the base.
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Neven

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #403 on: July 10, 2017, 09:21:10 PM »
so we need a plan that will get traction for the 2018 mid-term elections, that will energize the base.
Brilliant idea. Now, who has been energizing the base recently, and what is his platform? Oh right, Corporate Democrats are doing everything they can to keep that stuff in the can and under the carpet. Look everyone, a Russian squirrel!

But there are some fantastic slogans out there already that are sure to energize the base:

Democrats New Slogan Appears Written By The Onion
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AbruptSLR

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #404 on: July 10, 2017, 10:05:44 PM »
Brilliant idea.

Thanks, per the linked fivethirtyeight article, the Dems have a good shot at taking back Congress in 2018, if we just keep the resistance up:

Title: "Democrats Don’t Need Trump’s Voters To Retake The House"

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/democrats-dont-need-trumps-voters-to-retake-the-house/

Extract: "The takeaway is usually: Trump still has the support of his base, which means Democrats haven’t cracked the Trump nut yet.

But here’s the thing: Democrats don’t need to crack that nut by 2018; Trump can hang on to most — if not all — of his base, and Democrats could still clean up in the midterm elections. Checking in with Trump’s supporters is worthwhile. But don’t mistake their level of satisfaction for a political prediction.

Let’s start with the basic fact that Trump won just 45.9 percent of the vote in 2016.

That said, opinions of the incumbent president and House voting patterns have become more closely linked in recent midterms. The president’s party has lost at least 83 percent of voters who disapprove of the president’s job in every midterm since 1994. In none did the president’s party win more than 87 percent of those who approved of the president’s job.

In some, the president’s party won an even lower share of those who approve of the president’s job and lost an even larger share of those who approve of the president’s job.

These statistics are not good news for Republicans if Trump’s current approval rating (40 percent among voters) and current disapproval rating (55 percent) holds through the midterm."
« Last Edit: July 10, 2017, 10:39:40 PM by AbruptSLR »
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AbruptSLR

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #405 on: July 10, 2017, 10:28:38 PM »
Look everyone, a Russian squirrel!

At least fivethirtyeight thinks that the following Russiagate 'squirrel' has substance:

"The Latest Trump-Russia Story Has The Makings Of A Blockbuster"

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-latest-trump-russia-story-has-the-makings-of-a-blockbuster/

Extract: "We don’t cover every Trump-Russia story here at FiveThirtyEight. Some of them can be repetitive, such as the many iterations of the now-familiar narrative around the controversial work that President Trump’s onetime campaign chairman, Paul Manafort, did in Ukraine. Others are heavily reliant on unnamed sources or make vague claims, which means they’re complicated to understand and hard to verify.

But The New York Times’s weekend story, which details Donald Trump Jr.’s meeting last June with a Russian lawyer from whom he hoped to receive negative information about Hillary Clinton, is significant. It has the potential to stick to the president for three reasons:"
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Neven

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #406 on: July 10, 2017, 10:34:59 PM »
Quote
Thanks, per the linked fivethirtyeight article, the Dems have a good short at taking back Congress in 2018, if we just keep the resistance up:

So, you don't really need a plan, you just have to say: We're not them?

What is it? Plan or no plan?

I agree that if you don't need a plan, you can keep the Corporate Democrats where they are and still win. And if winning is all you're interested in, then that's great.

That is: Assuming the polls and pundits are correct. How did that go last time?

And yes, Trump is corrupt to the bone. I'm sure he's colluding with all kinds of oligarchs/kleptocrats. Unfortunately, he's not the only one. If you want a cabinet without Goldman Sachs people, you need to do more than just 'resist'.
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TerryM

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #407 on: July 10, 2017, 10:56:35 PM »

But The New York Times’s weekend story, which details Donald Trump Jr.’s meeting last June with a Russian lawyer from whom he hoped to receive negative information about Hillary Clinton, is significant. It has the potential to stick to the president for three reasons:"


Can you name three politicians that wouldn't have done the same?


When Candidate Harper met President Bush behind closed doors do you suppose they met to compare home brew recipes?


Not only is their no legal fault, every politician knows that his campaign team would have done the same, or they would have been fired for incompetence.


Terry

AbruptSLR

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #408 on: July 10, 2017, 11:00:49 PM »
I agree that if you don't need a plan, you can keep the Corporate Democrats where they are and still win. And if winning is all you're interested in, then that's great.

The linked article(s) from a corporate dems lobbyist provides insights for resist strategies:

Title: "Five Strategies the #resist Trump movement should adopt"

http://blog.nexuswerx.com/five-strategies-the-resist-trump-movement-should-adopt/

Extract: "These five strategies speak to that overarching goal:
1.   Oppose authoritarian moves. This Administration has proven already to be adept at the art of distraction. They may do ten things that inflame us ideologically in the space of a day or a week but we have to keep our eyes on attempts to erode our liberties. Here “our liberties” means “everyone’s”.

2.   Protect the fourth estate. While the media has certainly made their own bed – creating distrust through infotainment and sensationalism – it’s America that has to lay in it. We need a free press as the last check and balance to vett Trump policies; SCOTUS and Congress aren’t enough.

3.   Form an opposition within the only other check and balance – SCOTUS and Congress. This means insisting on, at the very least, a Supreme Court nominee who will check executive overreach and infringements on liberty. Mid-term gains in this environment no longer mean just electing Democrats. We now live in an environment where we need allies wherever we can find them. This is no longer about Democrat vs. Republican but Democracy vs. Authoritarianism. Republicans who value our democracy and have the guts to speak out against Trump should not be targeted. Period.

4.   Bring together the electorate. Put aside the fact Trump lost the popular vote and feelings about the electoral college. Take out the people who subscribe to the Alt Right point of view. What’s left is a very large swath of voters in this country who supported Trump because they believed he would help people like them and didn’t see the danger he poses to our long-term constitutional rights. How this translates tactically will be difficult to ascertain; certainly education and a free press helps but it’s not enough. But certainly it begins with people who think they have nothing in common talking to one another. If you haven’t been to a red state before, if you haven’t had a conversation with a (non-AltRight) Trump voter recently, try to build common ground (sports, faith, cooking, etc.) and a relationship. We need people in red districts calling their Members of Congress in opposition to Trump’s actions.

5.   Reclaim facts and logic. We are going down a very dangerous road where people are entitled to their own facts. Trump didn’t start this; conservative talk radio and Fox have been presenting “alternative facts” on climate change for at least a decade, paving the road away from reason. We need to call out lies when they come from the President or anyone in his Administration. Every. Single. Time."

See also:

http://blog.nexuswerx.com/

Personally, I believe that society will not sufficiently cure its ills to prevent a socio-economic collapse in the 2050-2060 timeframe, so I prefer to focus my time on what will happen after such a possible collapse; so I will leave this thread to others to try to fix crony capitalism in the interim.
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AbruptSLR

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #409 on: July 10, 2017, 11:03:51 PM »
Not only is their no legal fault, every politician knows that his campaign team would have done the same, or they would have been fired for incompetence.


Terry

I will let Mueller determine whether there was 'legal fault' or not, and as I just responded to Neven:

"Personally, I believe that society will not sufficiently cure its ills to prevent a socio-economic collapse in the 2050-2060 timeframe, so I prefer to focus my time on what will happen after such a possible collapse; so I will leave this thread to others to try to fix crony capitalism in the interim."
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TerryM

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #410 on: July 10, 2017, 11:16:17 PM »
The Democrats should win in 2018. A midterm against an unpopular president should be a no brainer. Unfortunately running with no brains is what the DNC does best.


Hillary should have won the last election, but she managed to grab defeat from the jaws of victory with the help of her DNC team.
Will the DNC do better next time around? If they run with no message, they could lose. If their corporate obligations don't allow them to have a message, they could lose. If the FBI interferes at the last moment, they could lose.


It ain't over till the fat lady sings, and the orchestra hasn't even warmed up, but the historic path to victory is to campaign for things that the voters want, and this is difficult when these are not things that your corporate sponsors want.


Terry




Neven

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #411 on: July 10, 2017, 11:19:50 PM »
I will leave this thread to others to try to fix crony capitalism in the interim.

If you want to fix crony capitalism, you first have to get it out of the Democratic Party! That's what this whole thread is about!

As for plan vs no plan, here's the wonderful Naomi Klein laying it out (and kicking British 'journalist' ass along the way, watch the whole thing if you have time):

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TerryM

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #412 on: July 10, 2017, 11:21:04 PM »

"Personally, I believe that society will not sufficiently cure its ills to prevent a socio-economic collapse in the 2050-2060 timeframe, so I prefer to focus my time on what will happen after such a possible collapse; so I will leave this thread to others to try to fix crony capitalism in the interim."


I think you're too optimistic with your timeline, far too optimistic if nuclear winter intervenes.


Terry

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #413 on: July 10, 2017, 11:35:19 PM »
I think you're too optimistic with your timeline, far too optimistic if nuclear winter intervenes.


Terry

Hope springs eternal ... (as one more of my endless platitudes)

Best,
ASLR
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pileus

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #414 on: July 10, 2017, 11:40:58 PM »
I will leave this thread to others to try to fix crony capitalism in the interim.

If you want to fix crony capitalism, you first have to get it out of the Democratic Party! That's what this whole thread is about!

Speaking of crony capitalism, here's an update on the spouse of alleged slayer of corporate Democrats Bernie sanders.  Bernie of course is blaming the GOP, similar to how he didn't take responsibility for his defeat in the Dem primary by blaming the DNC.  Excuses never win the day.

Federal prosecutors step up probe of land deal pushed by wife of Bernie Sanders

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/federal-prosecutors-step-up-probe-of-land-deal-pushed-by-wife-of-bernie-sanders/2017/07/10/e3fc3e72-625a-11e7-8adc-fea80e32bf47_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_sandersfbi-1129am%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.c3f079b37f4f

The investigation centers on the 2010 land purchase that relocated Burlington College to a new campus on more than 32 acres along Lake Champlain. While lining up a $6.7 million loan and additional financing, Sanders told college trustees and lenders that the college had commitments for millions of dollars in donations that could be used to repay the loan, according to former trustees and state officials.

Trustees said they later discovered that many of the donors had not agreed to the amounts or timing of the donations listed on documents Jane Sanders provided to a state bonding agency and a bank. That led to her resignation in 2011 amid complaints from some trustees that she had provided inaccurate information, former college officials said.

The land deal, the officials said, became a financial albatross for the 160-student school, contributing to its closure last year.

Neven

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #415 on: July 10, 2017, 11:54:58 PM »
Assuming that all of that is true, what does it say? That in the worst case, Bernie Sanders' wife is an incompetent administrator and now she's out of a job (edit: she resigned 6 years ago). How is that crony capitalism? Where are the millions of dollars that this 1%-er is stealing off of the people by outsourcing their jobs, making them addicted, building prisons to put them in, pushing illegal wars to sell weapons and destroying homeowners through derivatives? Where are crony capitalists Jane and Bernie Sanders doing that?

Here you go, the definition of crony capitalism from Wikipedia:

Quote
Crony capitalism is an economy in which businesses thrive not as a result of risk taken for them, but rather, as a return on money amassed through a nexus between a business class and the political class. This is done using state power to crush genuine competition in handing out permits, government grants, special tax breaks, or other forms of state intervention[1][2] over resources where the state exercises monopolist control over public goods, for example, mining concessions for primary commodities or contracts for public works. Money is then made not merely by making a profit in the market, but by profiteering by 'rent seeking' using this monopoly or oligopoly. Entrepreneurship and innovative practices, which seek to reward risk are stifled, since the value-add is little by crony businesses as hardly anything of significant value is created by them, with transactions taking the form of 'trading'.

Now, explain to us the relationship between what Jane Sanders allegedly did, and crony capitalism. Good luck with that.

Or are you just posting this to argue that no, we don't need a plan, we just leave the Corporate Democrats where they are so they can get the money from corporate donors to sponsor the We're-Not-Them-campaign? And then we'll beat the Red Team, yay.

Or are you just smearing Sanders because you're a fan of Corporatism? What are you even doing on this forum?
« Last Edit: July 11, 2017, 12:09:59 AM by Neven »
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sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #416 on: July 11, 2017, 01:42:07 AM »
Lets run another New York pol with ethics problems in 2020. What could go wrong ?

http://buffalonews.com/2017/07/09/cuomo-talks-like-president-least-candidate/

sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #417 on: July 11, 2017, 02:31:12 AM »

"Personally, I believe that society will not sufficiently cure its ills to prevent a socio-economic collapse in the 2050-2060 timeframe, so I prefer to focus my time on what will happen after such a possible collapse; so I will leave this thread to others to try to fix crony capitalism in the interim."


I think you're too optimistic with your timeline, far too optimistic if nuclear winter intervenes.

Terry

i opt for 2020-2025 timeline in every discussion on that topic, let's see while however it will be, i agree 100% with you that it will never happen only in 2050-2060, much much earlier. iMO

unfortunately most people tend to add another few years to support the illusion that perhaps it won't happen during their own lifetime or at least active life time.

TerryM

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #418 on: July 11, 2017, 04:11:49 AM »
We've upthread read a passionate defense of a BAU approach to healthcare, arguing, in essence, that what's good for Big Pharma is good for the USofA.
If we extended this argument to include the MIC, then our hopes of surviving the 2020's drops precipitously IMHO.
 
Global warming is effecting my life, will have very negative consequences for my children, and could prove fatal for my grandchildren.


Nuclear Winter kills everything, now.


The MIC needs to be mothballed, now.


Terry

Neven

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #419 on: July 11, 2017, 09:30:18 PM »
I know this thread is here to discuss the problem of Corporate Democrats, but as a disingenious, implied argument was made by pileus that Bernie Sanders and his wife are supportive of crony capitalists because his wife failed to expand the college she worked for and resigned 6 years ago, hence no better than Corporate Democrats, hence no need to replace Corporate Democrats, so the flow of donor money is assured that is an absolute prerequisite to beat the GOP, I justwanted to point out that it seems that the WaPo article that was linked to by pileus, is erroneous:

EXPOSED: Bernie Sanders Slandered By Washington Post AGAIN
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Great, the disingenuous, implied argument is based on faulty information at best, and misinformation at worst. Way to go, pileus. I get why you support Corporate Democrats.
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Neven

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #420 on: July 11, 2017, 09:51:03 PM »
For the record, I have no great love for the Clintons. I'm glad they're off the world stage, and hope it stays that way (hear me, Chelsea?).

Sorry to disappoint you, Jim.  ;)

Hillary. Won't. Go. Away.
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pileus

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #421 on: July 11, 2017, 11:29:35 PM »
What are you even doing on this forum?

I was a long time consumer of your ASIB, and then here at the forum when you expanded the content.  Probably like many others, I check it obsessively during the Arctic melt season to keep up with the metrics.  I considered it, and still do, one of the premier sources of information and mind share regarding the cryosphere, cobbling together an amazing and eclectic group of individuals that have created a living reference repository not just on sea ice but on an impressive range of topics related to planet earth and Homo sapiens.

I think Senator Sanders has some good ideas and positive intent to change and improve the US system of government.  But casting the entirety of "corporations", "the big banks", "Wall Street", the millionaire/billionaires, and the mainstream Democrats under one sweeping net of evil is incredibly naive and a quixotic exercise.  The US is an $18+ trillion economy and the role of all of those variables that Sanders and you are trying to smite are inexorably woven into the fabric and future of everyday life here in the US and around the world.  Yes, there is massive inequality and tremendous negative consequences on people and the biosphere, including the too hot heat engine that is capitalism.

I simply think it's a misread of the US system and it's populace if you think you can "kick out" the corporatists.  It's not going to happen.  The excesses, inequality and fraud all need to addressed, no argument there.  I would suggest it would be more productive and successful to influence and win the logical and policy arguments to your points of view with the corporatists, not declare war on them and attack them as less than human.  People and groups with deep vested interests tend to dig in, defend, and push back when attacked.  And they have tons of resources and motivation to persist.

But cheers and best of luck in these efforts.  I'm perfectly OK if you think I support the corporatists.  I've proudly backed the Clintons since the early 90s and will continue to do so.


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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #422 on: July 11, 2017, 11:43:09 PM »
Looks like an interesting thesis. I have personal evidence for the deep resentment in small town USA over the fact that no banker of consequence went to jail while putting homeowners on the streets. But I don't fully buy the argument, I think there were other factors also.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/chickenshit-club_us_5963fcc6e4b005b0fdc7bacb?ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009

Neven

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #423 on: July 12, 2017, 12:26:07 AM »
I simply think it's a misread of the US system and it's populace if you think you can "kick out" the corporatists.  It's not going to happen.  The excesses, inequality and fraud all need to addressed, no argument there.  I would suggest it would be more productive and successful to influence and win the logical and policy arguments to your points of view with the corporatists, not declare war on them and attack them as less than human.  People and groups with deep vested interests tend to dig in, defend, and push back when attacked.  And they have tons of resources and motivation to persist.

But cheers and best of luck in these efforts.  I'm perfectly OK if you think I support the corporatists.  I've proudly backed the Clintons since the early 90s and will continue to do so.

Thanks for the explanation, but basically you're saying it's hopeless. I mean, I assume that you find Arctic sea ice loss and AGW in general serious issues. Kicking out the corporatists is impossible, as is 'successfully influencing and winning the logical and policy arguments to your points of view with them', because their only logic and policy arguments is to serve the interests of the donors.

You'll never get anywhere that way, if only for the fact that a) it's pushing the Republicans even further to the right (as they have to differentiate themselves from Republican-lie Democrats) and b) it's a winning strategy for Republicans, because people see through the Republican-lite BS and don't trust you.

So, basically it's hopeless. If I would think it's hopeless, I wouldn't be spending so much time on keeping the ASIB and ASIF going. And you're still here too, so I have to assume that somehow you don't believe everything's hopeless either. But I do wonder how you manage to juggle these dumbbells in your head.

I can't do that. I have to believe there is a way for the people to get rid of Trump and the GOP and Corporate Democrats, and take power back.
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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #424 on: July 12, 2017, 12:39:50 AM »
pileus


Perhaps, unlike myself, you don't see a bifurcation between the want's and needs of the voters, and the want's and needs of the multinational corporations that now fund both political parties. The issue of single payer health care in California, and the California Democratic Party's position, is in my opinion a textbook case for the need to get out from under the weight of Corporations.


In this case I believe they are domestic corporations, but that really matters little. My understanding is that most Democrats, Independents, and Republicans are for single payer healthcare, but that the Health Insurance Companies won't allow anyone they sponsor to propose it.
This is reasonable as it would be the end of their existence, at least within the borders of California.


The Democrats can't run on a plank that would definitely bring out an enthused base, draw independents to their cause, and weaken Republican turnout. If this causes some Democrats to lose their seats, that's fine with the insurance companies because they've also bought the Republicans.
To me the answer for a Democrat running a tight race is to refuse health insurance money. Since the California Democratic Party's aim is supposed to be to get every Democrat elected, their only option is to refuse insurance company money themselves.
What they've done instead is to determine that pleasing the insurance companies is more important than getting Democrats elected. As agents for these companies they are good, and loyal servants, but their loyalty is supposed to be to Democratic voters and Democratic candidates.


Your argument, as I understand it is that the Health Insurance Industry is so powerful that they will crush any opposition, and it's better to go along with them, even against the wishes of your base, because that's better than being crushed.


What if King Coal decides to build a huge facility in LA, San Francisco, or Yellowstone Park. They pay off both parties and soon you are arguing that we can't oppose them as they are too powerful. Californians are left wearing smog masks, as they shuffle of to regional health care insurance centers hospitals.


I don't think anyone gets too enthused about taking time out of his day to vote, when the guy he's voting for is taking his marching orders from the same people who also control his opponent. The Democratic Party used to oppose these policies. Bill Clinton had a hand in the policies that years later caused his wife to lose a historic election. If we don't act very soon the Democrats will go the way of the Whigs.


Terry

budmantis

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #425 on: July 12, 2017, 06:07:30 AM »
For the record, I have no great love for the Clintons. I'm glad they're off the world stage, and hope it stays that way (hear me, Chelsea?).

Sorry to disappoint you, Jim.  ;)

Hillary. Won't. Go. Away.

Say it isn't so, Neven! Ugh!

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TerryM

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #426 on: July 12, 2017, 10:58:42 AM »
With Hillary and Pelosi back in the saddle we'll transform ourselves. Under their rheumy eyes, and in their withered hands the party will grow into a vibrant, modern, political machine, ready, willing, and able to accept cash from any sacred cow that pauses near our brothel ... bordello ... banker's door.



Backed by some of Washington's greatest lobbyists, we'll be able to push all of our agenda down the throats of voters, at least we will be able to once the lobbyists tell us what our agenda is. Until then, just remember that, "we're better than them.tm"

As Hillary's husband always says:
"There's a sucker born every minute", or was that Ghandi?

Terry

pileus

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #427 on: July 12, 2017, 04:09:29 PM »
I simply think it's a misread of the US system and it's populace if you think you can "kick out" the corporatists.  It's not going to happen.  The excesses, inequality and fraud all need to addressed, no argument there.  I would suggest it would be more productive and successful to influence and win the logical and policy arguments to your points of view with the corporatists, not declare war on them and attack them as less than human.  People and groups with deep vested interests tend to dig in, defend, and push back when attacked.  And they have tons of resources and motivation to persist.

But cheers and best of luck in these efforts.  I'm perfectly OK if you think I support the corporatists.  I've proudly backed the Clintons since the early 90s and will continue to do so.

Thanks for the explanation, but basically you're saying it's hopeless. I mean, I assume that you find Arctic sea ice loss and AGW in general serious issues. Kicking out the corporatists is impossible, as is 'successfully influencing and winning the logical and policy arguments to your points of view with them', because their only logic and policy arguments is to serve the interests of the donors.

You'll never get anywhere that way, if only for the fact that a) it's pushing the Republicans even further to the right (as they have to differentiate themselves from Republican-lie Democrats) and b) it's a winning strategy for Republicans, because people see through the Republican-lite BS and don't trust you.

So, basically it's hopeless. If I would think it's hopeless, I wouldn't be spending so much time on keeping the ASIB and ASIF going. And you're still here too, so I have to assume that somehow you don't believe everything's hopeless either. But I do wonder how you manage to juggle these dumbbells in your head.

I can't do that. I have to believe there is a way for the people to get rid of Trump and the GOP and Corporate Democrats, and take power back.

For context over roughly 25 years I have worked in both government and within several of the largest corporations in the US/world (by the way, none of which are FF or MIC related.  I simply could not do that for any price).  So I am intimately familiar with both bureaucrats and corporatists (and there are plenty of the former within the structures of the latter).  Absent an unprecedented and massive systemic shock or extreme black swan event that forces a reorganization of the capitalist and US political systems, I'm very pessimistic that the interplay of business and government, and control/exploitation by the ultra-wealthy/powerful can be broken anytime soon.  If anything, we are observing the elites hardening their defenses.

Money in US politics has long been a problem and Citizens United has completely poisoned the system.  It needs to be fought with all available resources, but with the successful coup of the Supreme Court by Mitch McConnell and the addition of Gorsuch and perhaps more ultra conservative justices that will serve 30 or more years, "hopeless" is not an unreasonable perspective.

I also see daylight between Republicans and what you call corporate Democrats.  Across intent, policy, philosophy, morality, decency, and any number of other variables.  Casting them all together is just not something I agree with, but we all have points of view informed by our experiences.

To some degree we likely do not have as much separation on some aspects of believing that the political and corporate systems need significant change for the good of humanity and the biosphere, but I just differ in how that is most likely to occur.  If ASLR is correct in his forecast for pending societal collapse in the 2045-60 timeframe, then the current structures and systems are most certainly nearing an endpoint.

In the shorter term I believe the only plausible way to force systemic change is through massive public uprising.  Neither Occupy Wall Street nor Sanders' "Revolution" fit the bill, and both were more aspirational than successful in tangible terms.  I'm referring millions taking to the streets and grinding the gears of business and government to a halt until the need for change is taken seriously and acted upon.  That may or may not result in the reviled corporate Democrats being tossed out.


jai mitchell

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #428 on: July 12, 2017, 07:08:09 PM »
In the shorter term I believe the only plausible way to force systemic change is through massive public uprising.

glad to see we agree on something!   ;D
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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #429 on: July 12, 2017, 07:43:59 PM »
In the shorter term I believe the only plausible way to force systemic change is through massive public uprising.

glad to see we agree on something!   ;D

Let's all just hope it doesn't come to that.

pileus

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #430 on: July 13, 2017, 12:51:12 AM »
pileus


Perhaps, unlike myself, you don't see a bifurcation between the want's and needs of the voters, and the want's and needs of the multinational corporations that now fund both political parties. The issue of single payer health care in California, and the California Democratic Party's position, is in my opinion a textbook case for the need to get out from under the weight of Corporations.


In this case I believe they are domestic corporations, but that really matters little. My understanding is that most Democrats, Independents, and Republicans are for single payer healthcare, but that the Health Insurance Companies won't allow anyone they sponsor to propose it.
This is reasonable as it would be the end of their existence, at least within the borders of California.


The Democrats can't run on a plank that would definitely bring out an enthused base, draw independents to their cause, and weaken Republican turnout. If this causes some Democrats to lose their seats, that's fine with the insurance companies because they've also bought the Republicans.
To me the answer for a Democrat running a tight race is to refuse health insurance money. Since the California Democratic Party's aim is supposed to be to get every Democrat elected, their only option is to refuse insurance company money themselves.
What they've done instead is to determine that pleasing the insurance companies is more important than getting Democrats elected. As agents for these companies they are good, and loyal servants, but their loyalty is supposed to be to Democratic voters and Democratic candidates.


Your argument, as I understand it is that the Health Insurance Industry is so powerful that they will crush any opposition, and it's better to go along with them, even against the wishes of your base, because that's better than being crushed.


What if King Coal decides to build a huge facility in LA, San Francisco, or Yellowstone Park. They pay off both parties and soon you are arguing that we can't oppose them as they are too powerful. Californians are left wearing smog masks, as they shuffle of to regional health care insurance centers hospitals.


I don't think anyone gets too enthused about taking time out of his day to vote, when the guy he's voting for is taking his marching orders from the same people who also control his opponent. The Democratic Party used to oppose these policies. Bill Clinton had a hand in the policies that years later caused his wife to lose a historic election. If we don't act very soon the Democrats will go the way of the Whigs.


Terry

Your approach of blaming mainline Democrats and the donor class for the US healthcare system is certainly one way to look at it.  Democrats have done more for healthcare in the last 50 years, between Medicare and Obamacare, than any organized group in US govt or industry.  Ocare expanded coverage and saved lives, and those are the metrics that count wrt healthcare.  It was a big deal, but really an incremental step towards providing solutions and improvements to the complex beast that is US healthcare.  It's not perfect and there are viable ideas to evolve towards even more coverage and lower costs.  I'm strongly in favor of moderation and incremental change, that's my argument.  Healthcare is 1/6th of the economy and CA in its own would be the 6th largest country in terms of GDP, so it's not realistic to apply a utopian vision and get a easy fix.  That works in an academic vacuum and on Internet forums, but not in real life.

And little will change with US healthcare unless there is a willingness to confront the crisis of lifestyle choices and preventative care. 2/3 of the country is overweight and sedentary and people drink too much alcohol.  Moving to a largely plant based diet would massively improve health outcomes and reduce the cost run rate significantly.  But the beef, dairy, and poultry corporatists will have none of that.  And Republicans see that conversation as an affront to freedom and the god given right to slaughter all the animals.

Neven

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #431 on: July 13, 2017, 02:15:38 PM »
Thanks for further explaining where you're coming from, pileus. I still feel that you are contradicting yourself somewhat, but then again, who doesn't.

Whether there is a physical uprising/revolution or just a political one, it has to start with indignation and anger, and then this anger/indignation needs to be channelled towards something productive. My fear is that the Democratic Party, as some say, is only there to absorb this energy and then neutralize it.

Hence the need for Corporate Democrats to be removed from their positions, and the need for drastic reform of how the Democratic Party functions.

This is probably the fastest way to change and some real opposition to the GOP.
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TerryM

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #432 on: July 13, 2017, 09:11:30 PM »
Thanks for the reply pileus.
I remember Hillary's attempt at single payer, and it's blockage at the hands of Republicans & some Corporate Democrats. Sad the number of lives wasted, the number of productive people who lost their ability to produce, and the huge numbers of those left to grieve.
I don't blame the democratic base for any of this. It was/is the fault of the leadership, and of course the Republican leadership, they are the ones on the payroll of the health insurance companies.
I can't say I'm in favor of incrementalism, but I do accept it as a realistic position, hence my recommendation that we begin our push by ousting Corporate Democrats in Hawaii, and putting single payer in place there, then watching it spread. California, as you noted, is probably a bridge too far re. healthcare for the coming election cycle.
Plenty of other reasons to start cleaning up the party in California and elsewhere, but healthcare will be a tough nut to crack & California might be too big a prize to begin with.


I'm passionate about healthcare because of the number of friends who died, or are crippled because of the HMO services they received. I'm aware that HMO's were a Republican creation, but well paid Democratic Leaders joined the Republican chorus praising them. It wasn't the demoralized doctors or the ESL nurses that killed and crippled my friends, it was the bean counters who saw every clinic and hospital as a potential profit center.
All of my friends had health insurance, most had been quite well off before they got sick, access to an HMO isn't access to quality health care.


Terry

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #433 on: July 18, 2017, 09:05:08 PM »
Cenk Uygur from The Young Turks on the Bernie Sanders' wife investigation. BTW, I didn't know that the FBI opened this investigation after some Trump idiot in Vermont claiming that there had been fraud. And then, of course, journalists from the Washington Post and NY Times run with that BS because they're Hillarybots. It's exactly the way climate risk deniers operate. Disgusting.

Any Merit To Investigation Of Bernie Sanders's Wife?

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TerryM

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #434 on: July 19, 2017, 12:56:12 AM »
Truth has been in short supply for some time, now we're running out of truthiness.


I don't think it's laziness or sloppiness that drives the baldfaced liars, I think it's a demented form of hubris, and that the real message is that "You are so stupid and weak that I can say things that you know are lies, and you won't dare to say anything back."
I think it's a bullying tactic designed to demoralize everyone within ear shot who doesn't respond.


In the Kings Garments meme was the king being tricked by the crooked tailor who sold him his invisible clothing, or were both of them laughing up their invisible sleeves at the abject terror of the prols, who were afraid to mention that their emperor was last seen cavorting naked in the streets.


We don't torture people. Ha
The lives of 500,000 innocent babies were worth it. Ha - Ha
We came, we saw, he died. Ha - Ha - Ha
The Russians ate my coronation. Bwa - Bwa - Bwa
Bernie's wife is a Thief! Ha - Ha


Ha - Ha Hillary & Ta-Ta
Terry


budmantis

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #435 on: July 19, 2017, 06:05:03 AM »
Terry: You have a "singular" wit!

BudM

TerryM

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #436 on: July 19, 2017, 09:32:22 AM »
Terry: You have a "singular" wit!

BudM


Thanks - I think?


Terry

budmantis

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #437 on: July 19, 2017, 02:53:37 PM »
Yes, it was meant as a compliment.

BudM

sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #438 on: July 22, 2017, 06:31:19 AM »
Nina Turner is another interesting person from ohio. Our Revolution is a successor to the Sanders movement. Working within the Democratic Party. So far.

https://ourrevolution.com/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2017/06/29/nina-turner-a-democratic-party-critic-takes-reins-of-sanders-founded-group/

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Jim Pettit

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #439 on: July 22, 2017, 03:10:30 PM »
Nina Turner is another interesting person from ohio. Our Revolution is a successor to the Sanders movement. Working within the Democratic Party. So far.

https://ourrevolution.com/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2017/06/29/nina-turner-a-democratic-party-critic-takes-reins-of-sanders-founded-group/

sidd

For a smart person, Nina Turner talks a lot of nonsense. That's her right. But it's sad to see she's turned into just another of those self-aggrandizing fantasists who go through life pretending as if America's deeply-entrenched two-party system doesn't exist. (See: Nader, Ralph; Perot, Ross)

News flash to Ms Turner: it does.

And any serious, competent person realizes that to get *anywhere* politically, a movement will have to work within that two-party framework whether they like it or not. There'll be no Green Party or Libertarian or Independent congressional leadership in our lifetime; there'll be no Green Party or Libertarian or Independent presidents. So people like Turner who espouse progressive views while simultaneously working to undermine the only one of those two parties that has any progressive policies at all are simply out of touch. It's great that people are realizing that the Democratic Party has become so corporate and self-defeating that it needs a major overhaul (and a great starting point would be teaching grassroots progressives how the system works so they can help bring about change). But when that idea morphs into the delusional belief that the Party is not worth saving, so we on the left should just burn it down and start over, they've gone too far. Those professing that belief are going to be very disappointed when they awake one future morning to find that we now live in a permanent one-party nation ruled by generations of McConnells and Ryans and Rohrbachers and Issas and Cruzs and Trumps. (Though even then I'm certain there'd be more than a few aging Bernie Bros high-fiving one another, congratulating themselves over sticking it to the Clintons. Yeah, guys; you really showed 'em. Thanks.)

America has severe problems. The Democratic Party has severe problems. But the solutions to those problems will be found in working with the structure we have. If "Our Revolution" hopes to get anywhere and effect any real change, people like Turner need to learn that.

sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #440 on: July 22, 2017, 09:40:00 PM »
Another leftist movement, so far within the Democratic Party, are the justice democrats founded by Cenk Uygur of The Young Turks, Kyle Kulinski of Secular Talk, and some from the Sanders presidential campaign.

https://justicedemocrats.com/

sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #441 on: July 22, 2017, 09:47:45 PM »
Dwight Evans is someone worth primarying. I watched him gut the Philly school system from close range.

"Evans had formulated an effective strategy to stay in power: use liberal allies to get elected, then move to the right on policy."

With democrats like these, who needs republicans ?

Read the whole thing:
https://jacobinmag.com/2017/05/corporate-education-reform-dwight-evans

sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #442 on: July 25, 2017, 10:00:03 AM »
Here's Cenk Uygur on the possibility of Sanders running again in 2020, and the reaction of Corporate Democrats:

Is Bernie Sanders Running In 2020?

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Final bit:

Quote
If you actually cared about the Democratic Party, if you actually wanted to resist Donald Trump, you wouldn't be putting hatchets in the back of the most popular guy in the country who's on your side. You would be helping him. But you don't care about the Democratic Party. You don't care about resisting Trump. You never cared about beating Trump. That's why you ran a candidate we told you was encumbered and had terrible polling. But you did it anyway because you wanted to get rich off of her. And now that Bernie Sanders is likely to run, almost certainly going to run, you're scared to death that he's going to overturn your apple cart. To which I say: Can't wait.
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SteveMDFP

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #443 on: July 25, 2017, 04:55:13 PM »
Cenk, like Dore, press an ideological view without nuance or careful analysis of strategy pros and cons.
When Sanders started his campaign, he was a relative unknown to the American People.
If you've read Freakonomics, the authors point out that money can strongly influence election outcomes of relative unknowns, but has relatively little impact on politicians who are familiar, well-known commodities.
It took decades of relentless right-wing character assassination to turn Hillary Clinton from the exciting candidate who barely lost to the far more charismatic and far better orator Obama -- to the worn-out seeming political hack who couldn't carry the election over charlatan Trump.

Still, had Sanders been the target of massive, endless artillery bombardment by the Right, he'd have lost far worse to Trump.  That is, because he's been a relative newcomer, his popularity could be devastated more quickly by well-funded smears.

Four years close to the political center stage can change that.  He's better known now.  He's still vulnerable to that bombardment on issues of age, and for sounding like somebody's crazed uncle.  I'm unclear why, but some see him as sexist and racist.  His defense of the VA medical system can be turned against him, because of scandals that have repeatedly popped up, even as he's praised and defended the VA system.

Do Cenk or Dore admit his vulnerability on any issues?   No, they just repeat over and over that he's the most popular politician in America.  Not so long ago, that was Hillary.

Cenk here repeatedly makes the absurd, ridiculous claim that Sanders would take big money out of politics.  The reality is that *only* overturning the Citizens United ruling can do that.

Independent expenditures for campaigns have come to dwarf the money available to individuals campaigns, DNC and RNC coffers combined.  The reality neither of these commentators seem to grasp is that the parties barely even exist any more.  The RNC, DNC, and state-level counterparts have no control over who runs for office under their banners, and they now have little financial ammunition to sway outcomes.  They schedule debates, and direct relatively small sums of money to individual campaigns.  They influence the drafting of platforms, but all platforms become bird cage liner the day after an election.

Railing against the DNC (or RNC) is like blaming the ball boy at a baseball game for your team's loss.

The grim reality is that that, left or right, the big donors *are* the parties.  And yeah, that sucks.

Another reality is that Republicans have *always* received the lion's share of corporate support.  Back before Citizens United, that was balanced by staunch union financial support and get-out-the-vote union-led efforts.  But R's have relentless demonized unions and largely emasculated them by policy changes.  Union membership keeps falling, union coffers keep shrinking, and public opinion of unions keeps dropping.

Now corporate money flows unimpeded towards Republican candidates, who shamelessly keep passing laws accordingly.  Democrats are financially out-gunned and have generally dimmer and dimmer prospects.  Not because they've given up ideals, but because it takes massive amounts of money to sway election results.

So Democrats (not just DNC, but most individual candidates) have had no choice but to selectively compromise ideals in the hopes of getting enough corporate support to win some elections.  Yes, compromising ideals is disheartening.  But the alternative, utter electoral irrelevance and one-party rule, is far, far worse.  There is no way for pure ideals to win elections.  Just Not Possible.

The fact still remains that Republicans will still get the lion's share of corporate support.  But  after the endless fustercluck that is Trump, there's an opportunity to win the next time around at national, state, and local levels--despite the financial scales being tipped in the R's favor.

Even, say, utterly slimy and repulsive "Corporate Democrats" still have every incentive to overturn Citizens United.  And that crucial step is the only thing standing between democracy in the US on the one hand, and permanent one-party tyranny on the other.

For the mid-terms, turning either House or Senate is a game-changer, even if all the D's are "corporate democrats." Democratic control of either house puts a stop to Trumpian policy initiatives.  More importantly, party committee control shifts to D, and the investigations by those committees suddenly have teeth and vigor. 

The other insanity by Cenk and Dore is the failure to recognize that not all corporations are equally evil.  Military manufacturers, fossil fuel producers, gun makers--they line up behind the Rs.  If Bezos or Musk or Soros want to help balance the financial scales in elections, we need to welcome that support, not turn our noses up at it.

sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #444 on: July 25, 2017, 09:11:03 PM »
Bernie is the most popular politician in the USA, and is the most credible candidate the Democrats can run. Unfortunately, I suspect corporate democrats will knife him again. Will be interesting to watch, by their deeds will you know them. If the corporates attack him again, I see no future for the Democratic party.

If Bernie is serious about running, I hope he is taking care of his health. His schedule is gruelling.

All through those long years of reagan, thatcher, clinton, we heard the same song. There Is No Alternative. Populists Are Unelectable. Just Not Possible. We Must Suck Corporate Penis. These sentiments delivered in sonorous, rotund tones from Very Serious People Who Know Better than The Unwashed Masses.

These guys have been so wrong for so long and yet stubbornly, relentlessly mouth the same tired  lines.  There is a quote from Laurence Peter that goes, "Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it." At first in my youth i leaned toward the former, but now that i am older i think they really do believe their own bullshit.

Well i guess with trump, sanders and corbyn we see that populists are not so unelectable after all. 

sidd

SteveMDFP

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #445 on: July 25, 2017, 10:47:41 PM »


All through those long years of reagan, thatcher, clinton, we heard the same song. There Is No Alternative. Populists Are Unelectable. Just Not Possible. We Must Suck Corporate Penis. These sentiments delivered in sonorous, rotund tones from Very Serious People Who Know Better than The Unwashed Masses.

These guys have been so wrong for so long and yet stubbornly, relentlessly mouth the same tired  lines. 
. . .

All those names were before Citizens United.  Politics in the US have changed since then.  Sadly, we really do need to pay attention to the less malignant corporate donors now.  It's a very different and more dangerous playing field now.

sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #446 on: July 26, 2017, 12:38:28 AM »
Obama's first campaign and Sanders last year demonstrate that very effective campaigns can be sustained thru grass roots funding. Unfortunately it is easier, and much more personally lucrative to sell out to billionaires in secret.

I posed a question a while ago to the defenders of the corporate Democrats: is there a single incumbent corporate democrat in the US Senate or Congress who they would oppose ? Manchin ? Pelosi ? Booker ? DiFi ? Evans ? Anybody ?

Perhaps unsurprisingly, I did not get a single answer. Apparently there was not a single corporate democrat sleazy enuf to oppose.

sidd

sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #447 on: July 26, 2017, 01:24:07 AM »
Re: Citizen's United

1) Agreed that is a horrible decision enabling dark billions to flow to politicians
2) Agreed that it will not be overturned without changing the supremes.

Where i disagree is with the notion that democrats beholden to exactly those dark billionaires would appoint noncorporate supremes.

sidd

SteveMDFP

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #448 on: July 26, 2017, 02:05:38 AM »
Obama's first campaign and Sanders last year demonstrate that very effective campaigns can be sustained thru grass roots funding. Unfortunately it is easier, and much more personally lucrative to sell out to billionaires in secret.

I posed a question a while ago to the defenders of the corporate Democrats: is there a single incumbent corporate democrat in the US Senate or Congress who they would oppose ? Manchin ? Pelosi ? Booker ? DiFi ? Evans ? Anybody ?

Perhaps unsurprisingly, I did not get a single answer. Apparently there was not a single corporate democrat sleazy enuf to oppose.

sidd

Re: Citizen's United

1) Agreed that is a horrible decision enabling dark billions to flow to politicians
2) Agreed that it will not be overturned without changing the supremes.

Where i disagree is with the notion that democrats beholden to exactly those dark billionaires would appoint noncorporate supremes.

sidd


  Yes, an occasional candidate with either charisma and oratory skills (Obama) or enough fire in the belly and a fresh message (Sanders) can get enough small contributions to have a fighting chance.  But politicians like that don't grow on trees.  And that only works for national (i.e.,, Presidential) campaigns.  Local elections don't get enough coverage for such candidates to gain traction.  Ultimately, Obama had to drop the public funding option in favor of accepting bigger contributions.

Remember also that the middle and lower classes have been getting progressively squeezed, while the wealthy continue to get a disproportionate share of wealth.  So it gets harder and harder over time for a lot of little people to finance to the level of a Koch or Adelson, who can casually drop tens of millions at a pop without feeling a pinch. 

It's a losing overall strategy, and the prospects of winning this way get smaller every year.

And no, no sleazy corporate Democrat is so bad right now that opposing one makes sense, if that means a Republican gets the seat.  Party control of the chambers and committees is that important.  So, e.g., Manchin's support for coal is bad, but actually irrelevant on that score in the bigger picture.  But if either chamber flips by one seat, significant gains are immediate.  A progressive primary challenger successfully beating Manchin is a dreadful loss if he/she then loses to the Republican.

Would a slimy corporate Democrat seek to overturn Citizens United?  Yes, because while that Dem might get 60% of the total spending by corporations, his Republican opponent might get 80%.  He'll be happy to make do with less corporate money, if his opponent nets even less.

Also note that plenty of corporations aren't happy about being shaken down every four years.  Many only pony up because opposing financial interests are supporting the opposite side.  Many would support efforts to return sanity to elections.

There's actually an opportunity to scale back *some* of Citizens United without going to the Supreme Court.  In the Court's deliberations there was a presumption by the right that public disclosure and transparency would or could be set in place for independent expenditures.  No such laws have been passed, so the spending is all very murky.  But it's likely even the righties on the Court would find a law mandating disclosure and reporting to be Constitutional. 

pileus

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #449 on: July 26, 2017, 03:35:48 AM »
There's a strong case to get fresh progressive and corporate Democrat talent in the primary mix, but overall no, there is no Democrat of any stripe that should be opposed once the primaries are settled.  Democrats are on track to take the House in 2018, and Senate prospects will improve as the GOP continues it's destructive agenda.  Worst thing Democrats could do right now is swing to the populist far left, or repeat the behavior of the Bernie Bros and not line up behind the Dem candidate in every election.  Populist left purity is not reflective of the electorate in the swing seats that are in play.  Any Dem is preferable to a Republican.  If there's any group that needs to be kicked out, it's the populist purists on both the left and the right.  Progress can be made without the extremism and inflexibility.